Shawn Baker: How to Build Generational Health in 2025 | DSH #1533

And then they're trying to just disrupt it and you know, say, we're going to make this other form of meat and try to convince people that meat is bad for you, bad for the planet, it's unethical.

And the reality is they just want to make money.

They're just, this is like, you know, they're going to try to do this.

And it's really none of those things.

And those plant-based meats, those lab-grown meats are arguably worse for the environment.

Okay, guys, Dr.

Sean Baker out here in Las Vegas.

Got him before.

He's going to speak at Bitcoin conference.

That's a different conference from what you normally speak up.

Yeah, it's interesting.

You know, I've been advocating for this crazy nutritional approach for many years.

And for the longest time, I only spoke kind of to like-minded people at low-carb conferences, but now it's grown to such an extent that I get asked to speak at political events, you know, strength training events, Bitcoin conferences.

The cattle industry likes me to talk to them, believe it or not.

It feels like being healthy is like the new wealth, though.

Yeah, it's becoming the counter cultural revolution is to ditch all the, you know, the

fake stuff and kind of get back to get back to our roots, I suppose.

Yeah.

Like when I come across healthy people, that's like, it's like a turn on for me, right?

It shows that they actually take care of themselves.

Yeah, I think that is something, you know, you, you can't buy that.

You got to do it.

And I think it's, you know, it's, it's emblematic of a lot of things about a person, I think.

Yeah.

And you were really early to this carnivore space.

I mean, you created it, right?

Well, I wrote the book.

Yeah, I was the first one to publicly sort of, in a big way, call it a carnivore diet.

I mean,

there have been people that have been doing carnivore diets, even physicians going back hundreds of years.

I mean, this guy, James Rollo, Scottish surgeon, 1790s, wrote about treating diabetes with all meat diets.

So this is not new.

It's just that we live in a, you know, as you know, a social media time where, you know, an idea can be spread like wildfire in a period of time.

Now, again, I've been talking about this nearly, nearly 10 years now, and it's finally reached a point where a large people, large number of people have heard of it.

Now, when I first started, probably 99.9999999% of the people thought I was absolutely nuts.

Now it's only about 99%.

So we're making progress with that.

Yeah, Rogan will help you do that, right?

Yeah, Joe, yeah.

You know,

the first time I went on Rogan, I remember I was talking to him and you can just tell he thought I was nuts.

Yeah, you just tell it.

You know, the second time I went on, he was like, dude,

you got to keep talking about this.

All my friends are doing, are doing better.

So it clearly works for people.

So you got him on it, right?

He's still on that diet?

He does it from, you know, he does it from time to time.

He mostly does it.

And the honest truth is most people that do a carnivore diet, you know, and again, as a physician, I promote it as a therapeutic tool that you'll do for a period of time, three months, six months a year, perhaps.

And then you go, you know, and then if you want to tattoo yourself and call yourself carnivore Carl,

you know, that's up to you at that point.

But I mean, what happens to most people is they'll do it for a period of time very strictly.

They'll cure a disease, maybe an autoimmune disease or diabetes or something like that.

And then they will sort of find where they can sort of have a little bit more relaxation in that.

And I think that's totally fine.

I'm not dogmatic about this.

I'm one of the least dogmatic guys.

I'm dogmatic about we should have a strict definition.

So when somebody says I'm on a carnivore diet, you know what we're talking about.

It's not like I'm eating, you know, three times a week, you know, a salad and, you know, honey and all this stuff.

Cause there's obviously there's these animal-based diets, which are, you know, they share some

similarities.

But from the unique aspect that I see, a very strict carnivore diet is uniquely beneficial in certain situations.

So we need to have that, that, that clearly defined.

And

after that, like I said, you know, I have a digital health company and we treat some people with carnivore diets, some people we treat with a ketogenic diet, some people we treat with more of a just a paleo cell diet depending on what disease i have yeah and um

it's it's interesting to see see the reversals of disease that you see it's it's uh

i mean i'm still amazed almost 10 years into this the stuff i heard about i mean it's at the bitcoin conference and i probably had two 300 people come up to me and say hey look you've changed my life wow i've lost 100 pounds i i no longer take medications and so This is, I mean, it's fun for me as a physician.

You know, I spent, you know, 20 years practicing as an orthopedic surgeon.

And, you know, I mean, you help people.

I mean, that's not to say that you can't help people to some degree, but it is

an order of magnitude more impactful, what I'm doing these days.

And it's much more, you know, fulfilling.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah, because now you could just make a video impact hundreds of thousands of people with one video.

Yeah, yeah, well, depending on how the algorithm picks it up.

But I mean,

the one thing that's interesting is we have a whole bunch of physicians that work for our company, Rivero.

And the one thing they always tell me is, I'm so much happier doing this than I was the sort of standard kind of allopathic medicine, which is sick care.

It's not healthcare.

You've probably been around long enough to realize that all we're doing is sort of medicating symptoms.

We're doing a disease management.

We're not healing people.

And that's a real shame.

It's so crazy that all this healing is happening just from a diet change.

I feel like most people can't even fathom that.

Yeah, it, it, it.

It shocked me.

And the only reason I'm such an advocate for this is that I see it every day.

And it's, it's undeniable for me.

And, you know, good thing is we're getting studies out there next.

And a lot of people are skeptical because there's no studies.

The studies are coming out little by little.

I mean, they're expensive.

I mean, it's not easy to do a, you know, big randomized control trial costs millions and millions of dollars.

And, you know, there's not a lot of people that are lining up to pay for these things.

But, but we're getting those things done.

It's not, you know, and I should be clear.

I mean, I don't think it's just diet.

I think it's a whole life.

It's a comprehensive lifestyle

intervention.

And, you know, as you probably had some of your other guests talking about the importance of sleep, the importance of not being sedentary, the importance of managing stress, the importance of our light environments.

And then, of course, nutrition is a huge one.

And then I like, I'm a guy that really likes, you know, exercise and I think it has a unique benefit as well.

Yeah.

And we were talking out there, you really know the history of this stuff, which is the breath of the melee.

You were talking about how we used to eat all the big animals.

Those went extinct.

Now we eat the lean cuts.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, there's a really good paper.

It's, it's,

I'm paraphrasing the title.

It's something like

the trophic level of man, a prehistoric man.

It was written by a guy named Mickey Bendor, Rafi Sertola, and another guy, Raina Barca.

They're both out of Tel Aviv, and Rafi, I think, is in, I think he's in Paris, or he might have been in Lisbon.

And they go through like 25 converging lines of scientific evidence, everything from fossil records to radioisotopic data, genetic analysis to bioenergetics.

And they they came to the

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Conclusion that all this data pointed to a highly carnivorous past for

Homo sapiens species

and the hominids or humans that predated those.

You know, that would be Homo habilis, Homo erectus, you know, the Neanderthals, all of those, which, you know, kind of intermixed, and

we had this sort of interesting melange of species to finally develop Homo sapiens.

And up until about 80,000 years ago, our primary food would would have been these large animals.

Just because,

you know, you think about where you're going to get energy from.

And, you know, there's a lot of talk about optimal foraging strategies or hunting strategies.

If you can take down a large animal, say an elephant, you've got food for maybe a couple of months, literally, depending on how many people you have in your group.

Whereas if you have to hunt smaller animals, fish or birds, and all you have is a spear, it's going to take you a long time to get enough food.

And if you're gathering plants, also tremendous energy output

for a relatively small return.

Now, today, modern food, we've solved a lot of those problems because now I can turn all this plant material into powder,

sugar flowers, tremendously increase the energy value of that sort of stuff.

I can now obtain adequate energy so that I can eat a more omnivorous balance or even a plant, you know, completely plant-based diet.

But prior to that, this would not have been possible.

Yeah, plant-based protein powder, right?

Yeah, I mean, I will, like I said, I should, you know, be transparent here.

I mean, I'm very much a proponent of a carnivorous diet for certain individuals, depending on their health issues.

But, you know, there are some plant-based protein powders where they've been able to engineer them to where they have enough leucine.

You know, this is one of these critical

amino acids and some of these other things where they can get, you know, approaching what animal products do.

Again, some people would argue, hey, it's not really food.

We're eating these, you know, synthesized, lab-made products.

Is that good for this species?

I mean,

there's a debate that, you know, the industrialization of our food has directly led to a dramatic decrease in our overall,

you know, population health, decreases in life expectancy, which are happening now.

I mean, your generation is probably the first generation to live shorter than.

your parents.

Yeah.

So it's kind of crazy.

Yeah.

Average male now is 71 in the U.S., right?

I think something like 71, 72.

Yeah, I think it's down a couple years.

I mean, I think the overall number is 77, 76.

It was, I think, as high as 78.79.

And so we're seeing a downward trend for the first time.

That's a pretty big jump within one lifetime.

It's significant.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hopefully, we can, hopefully, we turn it around.

That's nuts.

Now you're pushing 60 when you get blood work done because I know you said earlier, you're on no supplements, right?

Right.

Any deficiencies, anything red?

No, I mean, you know, this, you know, and I, I look at, look, I tend to look at health in a very

sort of basic way.

You know, I know there's thousands of tests you can get.

You can, you can study your telomer length.

You can look at your DNA methylation.

You can look at your mitochondria.

And there's all this thought on this is what's leading to aging.

But I mean, the reality is those things, I mean, I've never seen one of my own mitochondria.

I know they're there.

I've never seen one.

And it's unlikely that I ever will unless I have some scanning electron microscope or something like that or access to powerful stuff.

So I can't really impact that and know what's going on day to day, but I can look at things like how fast can I run?

How far can I jump?

How high can I jump?

How well do I sleep?

How do I feel?

How do I function?

You know, those things to me are reflective of what I think are meaningful health metrics.

And so I tend to emphasize those things.

So like, as you mentioned, I'm going to be turning 60 soon.

I'm like, dunk a basketball.

That's not something many 60-year-olds have ever done.

There's only a handful that have ever done it.

Most of those guys are ex-NBA guys.

Jordan did it.

Dr.

J did it.

I think think Dominique Wilkins did it, but these guys are like six foot eight.

And, you know, we're phenomenal guys that could jump.

And, you know, so that's just one thing.

It's not the only thing that's important.

But I mean, it really, I think we sort of have gotten to where with all the sort of the biohacking stuff and all the data we're getting, we're sort of losing the forest for the trees a little bit, you know, because we're like, oh, I got to worry about what my, you know, my mitochondria are doing.

And it's like, well, what about the big picture?

Yeah.

And that's where my emphasis tends to be.

Yeah, I think it's getting extreme.

I see guys giving 20 vials of blood and it's like, holy crap,

that's a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, and you know, I mean, again, I, I am, I will say that, you know, when it, when it, and there's a lot of people that are, they're longevity gurus and whatnot.

I have no idea.

I will tell you, I don't know if my diet's going to make me live longer, shorter.

I don't think it's possible to know that realistically.

I just think it's not possible to do those studies.

So I really look at quality of life.

You know, what is, what is the quality of your life at 50, 60, 70,

30, 40 in some cases.

And that's to me what, what I think I know I can impact positively.

And that's pretty easy to measure.

You know, like if I were like saying, you know, like you've had a guest on here, Brian Johnson said he's going to live forever.

He's not going to die.

And, you know, people will buy into that and maybe they'll, you know, spend money on this.

And they're like, is there a money back guarantee if I, if I die?

You know, that's not going to happen.

And so I'm very reluctant to sort of make any of those claims.

I just said, look, I think I can take a sick person and make them healthier.

I see it all the time.

And I think that's, to me, that's, that's, that's quite a bit.

Yeah.

Honestly.

Yeah.

Brian Johnson's a very interesting person.

I mean, he has all the studies, but he just appearance-wise, it just doesn't look.

I don't know.

I've never, I've never made, I mean, a lot of people say he looks

maybe not as he should.

For somebody who's going to live forever, but I don't know.

Yeah, we'll see what happens.

Do you eat the organs too, or just the meat?

I generally don't eat the organs.

I just don't like them, you know, and I've had them from time to time.

I mean, this is another thing.

When Harvard University did their study on a carnivore diet in 2021, I specifically spoke to the primary researcher because I helped kind of

get off the ground.

And I said, hey, make sure you ask about organ meets because this is something that a lot of people are claiming is necessary.

And my observation and from people that were doing it long before me, there's groups of people who have been doing this for.

decades before I ever even started this.

And they were all saying, hey, look, they're not really necessary.

You can eat them if you want.

That's what the the Harvard study found.

When I did

my data collection on 12,000 people, I found the same thing.

It was like, if you like them, it's good.

Now, again, some people will say, I feel better when I eat these things.

And I don't discount that.

I said, sure, if it helps you, fine.

But to say that, you know, everybody needs to do this

doesn't sort of

lend itself to what the reality is.

Same thing with.

whether you eat grass finished beef or grain finished beef.

You know, it doesn't seem to matter that much.

I know that upsets a lot of people, but I mean, that's, I mean, I just, I'm not going to sit there and lie to people.

I'm going to say, look, if you can only afford to go to Walmart and get the cheapest ground beef there is,

it's likely going to still be very beneficial to you.

And I see people like that all the time.

So you haven't noticed a major difference with, let's say, Walmart meat versus the highest quality meats?

No, I mean, other than what it costs and how it tastes.

I mean, you know, some of the, some, I had some really high-end God, it was ridiculous.

It was a $250 filet, you know, 85 wagu from Japan.

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yeah

yeah and it was like eating like

meat butter almost it was so rich i could barely finish the thing but you know i i don't think it makes any more health difference than going to the grocery store and getting a you know ten dollar steak or something yeah yeah a lot of marketing when you go to the grocery store is all these labels and especially with the eggs you never know which type of eggs to buy.

You're going to spend 20 on eggs or five?

Yeah, you know, the problem with like, even like, this is another thing, I think we talked about this outside, you know, the labeling is so deceptive.

You know, you get it natural, bio, you know, organic, you know, fresh, wholesome, you know, all these little ingredients.

They put little, cute little natural things on there, like plants on there.

And it's just very, very deceptive.

I mean, it's like, you know, like I said, grass finish.

label in a grocery store means the cow, if he chose to go outside and nibble on some grass, he could have some grass.

But he might spend his whole life, you know, indoor eating, you know, you know, TMR, a total mixed ration, and they can still call it grass finish.

So it's kind of like, I don't really get too worried about that.

I'm losing faith in the organic label the more I look into that one.

Yeah, there's been a lot of, a lot of evidence that shows it doesn't really make much of a difference.

Which is crazy because people spend double, triple the price for it.

Yeah, yeah.

I can remember buying, you know, years ago, buying all these organic fruits and vegetables, and it seems like they always went bad a lot quicker.

So not only would you pay more you'd end up throwing half the stuff out yeah and it's just it's just not very efficient so strawberries go bad quick these days yeah i think there's some tricks yeah i i don't you know like i said i don't do the plant-based stuff much anymore at all but i mean i think there's some tricks you can like spray them in like like a vinegar water or lemon water or something you can make them live longer but you don't ever crave something sweet like a dessert or fruit you know i like i said i'm not dogmatic about this every once in a while and like i said like i've got you know four kids they'll have a birthday party i might have a piece of cake or something like that but i i don't really really like crave it,

particularly if I make sure I just consume enough food.

And this is one of the problems.

A lot of people will come to this diet and they're like, oh, I'm going to lose 50 pounds right away.

So they'll restrict themselves unnecessarily.

They're like, oh, I better not eat.

And then what happens is they develop these pretty significant cravings.

And, you know, I mean, no diet will be successful if you're hungry all the time or you don't like the food.

I mean, if you don't like it, you're not going to do it.

So, so, I mean, fortunately,

I personally like eating steak.

I like red meat.

I, you know, I eat eggs.

I eat fish from time to time.

And I enjoy that.

And so if I eat, as long as I eat enough of that, I don't really get too bothered about the other stuff.

Now, occasionally, like if I'm unable to eat normally and

there's no other food available, I might get hungry and

may go off the diet occasionally.

But I'd say 98% of the time, I'm pretty tight with things.

How do you get your meat cooked?

Because there's some conflicting info on that, right?

The more you cook it, the more nutrients are cooked out of it.

Yeah, I think to a point.

I mean, I like my meat medium rare.

I mean, I think that's a nice.

I mean, you know, French they call it apoint, you know, you know, al punto in Spanish.

I mean, it means that's where it tastes the best.

I think there's a lot of truth to that.

And again, it depends on the cut.

If you're talking about a steak, you know, medium rare, because what it does is it, you know, it sears the surface so you would kill any

bacteria that might be there.

And then the inside is still,

you know, fairly raw-ish, fairly rare.

I wouldn't say raw, but rare.

It's where you're going to get most of the nutrients.

I think overdone, well-cooked meat doesn't taste good.

And I think you're losing some.

You're not losing it.

You're not losing like all of it, but you're seeing somewhat of a decrease.

I can see that.

Do you ever, do you ever eat fully raw?

I've tried that.

You know, and I'll have like at a restaurant, I'll have like carpachio, obviously sushi or sashimi rather.

I try to do a raw version of carnivore diet because, cause people were talking about this maybe five, six years ago.

I just didn't enjoy it.

I just, you know, sitting down to a cold bowl of ground beef or a cold steak was just, I mean, I think I could lose more weight doing that because I just didn't like the food.

I was like, ugh, you know, so I generally like it.

I don't know.

Liver King, man.

He really made that one popular.

Well, yeah.

I don't know what he was really doing, but it was obviously a lot of deception with that guy.

Do you eat any pork?

From time to time.

Yeah, from time.

Mostly it's in the form of bacon occasionally.

But, you know, it's kind of funny.

I mean, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, bacon's so good, but I rarely ever eat it.

I really don't want it that much.

But yeah, I mean, once in a while,

pork belly once in a while, but it's probably

on the order of a couple times a year.

Yeah, I think people are surprised that the diet's kind of affordable.

I was talking to Steak and Buttergirl about this, and she said when she was a vegan, she was spending way more.

Yeah, I mean, you know,

because I'm on Instagram and I'm eating ribeye steaks all the time.

And, you know, if you do that all the time, it's going to be more expensive for the average person.

But most people, you know, you can do ground beef.

And I eat a lot of ground beef.

You know, I mean, it's just not as exciting to put a picture up there.

Although every time I show a picture of me with a little hamburger patty with an egg and a little bacon and piece of cheese on there, people go nuts because it tastes good uh but yeah you can do this diet you know i mean even today

you know five six bucks a day that's not bad it's not bad i mean i you know i'm i funnily i did a little youtube video we haven't released yet it's like one dollar all the way up to 250 meals carnivore meals that you can do and so eggs you know eggs will get you there um you go to costco go to the you know go to the business center buy in bulk you can get i think you can get like five dozen eggs for 12 bucks still so that's that's pretty pretty not economical you ever struggled with constipation not getting fiber

yeah so that's an interesting point um i don't consume really any fiber at all significantly and um no i mean i really don't i mean i guess the only exception that if i eat a lot of like dairy products particularly cheese then then you'll see that and a lot of people will see that and i think it's one it's probably the calcium content and two it's probably the uh kind of the opioid type effects you know there's a casomorphones that are that are found in in a cheese and

you know narcotics you know typically anybody that's been on like opioids will know they get constipated pretty easily so i think there's some of that effect going on but if i don't eat a lot of cheese i don't have any problem do you pay much attention to the raw dairy versus dairy stuff

i know it's there i mean not really i i you know i i understand that there's people that believe that raw dairy is superior um again

When I look at people that consume it versus don't consume it and consume standard pasteurized dairy, I don't see any major, huge health outcome differences, you know, from my observation.

Again, you have the individuals that'll say, hey, I feel better with raw dairy and help fix my gut.

I don't, I don't discount that.

I, you know, I'll have raw dairy from time to time.

You know, it depends what state you live in, of course.

Yeah.

I don't know what Nevada's.

It's banned here.

Is it banned?

Yeah.

Washington state, I can get it.

So there's a little co-op in my little town that I live in that has raw dairy.

And I've got it from time to time.

So, I mean, I think it's fine.

I mean, the reality is there are people that get sick more often on raw dairy than pasteurized dairy.

And we're talking about bacterial infections, but those numbers annually are like lightning strike rare.

I mean, it's like, you know, 10 people a year, which is, you know, in the U.S., it's minuscule.

Yeah, that's nothing compared to probably millions of people taking it.

Yeah, yeah, right.

Where do you buy all your meat?

Is it local butchers or online from all that shit?

I get a bunch of different stuff.

You know, because I become this meat influencer, I get a lot of ranchers to send me their stuff.

So I get a lot of free meat, man.

So I'm sure as hell going going to eat it.

What a life.

That's good.

That's not bad.

I get, there was, I, I got some, I had a side of beef from a local rancher guy.

Sometimes I'll just go to the store, depending, you know, like if I don't have something and I feel like something, I'll do that.

But, but I get a lot from,

and I, I, I really like supporting ranchers.

I mean, I think they are critical.

They're, they're really, this is a national security issue.

You know, I don't know if you know this, but back in the 1970s, we had 1.3 million independent ranchers in the United States.

Right now, that number is down around 600,000.

So we've lost getting close to a million ranchers over the last 50 years.

And every year, something like 10,000 to 20,000 of them just go out.

The average age of a rancher is like 62 years of age.

And so this is very disturbing to me because this is something that I see as a very critical tool for healing people.

And then all of a sudden, you've got no one producing it anymore.

And then you're like, well, what are you going to do that?

I guess everybody goes on the drugs and stays medicated for the rest of their life.

So no,

it's a real call to action to support your local ranchers or at least buy direct from a rancher.

And there's a lot of guys that are now getting into the direct-to-consumer deal because about 85% of our beef in this country is falling under four companies that are kind of centralized.

And there's some

concern about those guys centralizing the food even farther because, you know, as the food becomes more and more centralized, we have less control and less option over it.

And so if they decide, hey, look, we make all the food and we're going to do what's best for our bottom line

profit-wise, then

it may cut a lot of people out of somebody.

Why do you think we're losing so many ranchers?

Well, the government has made it increasingly difficult for them to ranch.

It's more expensive for them to do so.

Some of the prices are going up.

I mean, the shift from profit, it used to be, I don't know, 50 years ago, a rancher might get three times as much for every dollar they put in as they do now.

So most of that has been shifted to the retail side and the packing side.

So these four companies, JBS and

National Beef, which are Brazilian companies, and then Tyson and Corgill, control about 85% of the U.S.

beef supply right now.

Holy crap.

And yeah, so it's really concentrated.

Back in the 1920s,

there was legislation passed called the

Stockyard and Packers Act, and it was supposed to break up the monopoly.

And they put it into legislation.

And back then, it was like they controlled 75% of the beef supply.

That law was passed, and now they control 85%.

So they it's just it didn't happen

because they don't enforce it.

They don't enforce the law.

Damn, that's scary.

It's only going higher.

So it could be 90, 95 in our lifetime.

It could be, yeah.

Jeez.

They want to, you know, and you see the alternative, you know, you see all this stuff about all the plant-based meats and now the lab-grown meats.

And so that is,

you know, I think a lot of that's losing a little bit of wind out of its sales because there's a lot of venture capital money.

Like Silicon Valley invested, you know, billions of dollars into these startups for, you know, alternative meats because they see it as, I mean, the meat industry worldwide is a $1.5 trillion market.

And so they're like, well, let's, let's do Meatless Monday.

So that's, what's 20% of 1.5 trillion?

So that's, you know, a couple hundred billion dollars.

It's a huge market.

So there's all this advertising that goes into that.

And then they're trying to just disrupt it and, you know, say, we're going to make this other form of meat and try to convince people that meat is bad for you, bad for the planet, it's unethical.

And the reality is they just want to make money they're just this is like you know they're going to try to do this and it's it's it's really none of those things and those plant-based meats those lab-grown meats are arguably worse for the environment worse for for the health of the planet and and probably worse for our health geez did you see they brought the mammoth back and they're trying to make mammoth jerky and stuff i don't know if they're are they i i know they're they i don't know have they got it successfully all the way i don't know if it's successful but they're trying to clone the baby

into an elephant i think oh an elephant i think they're going to do that yeah they're and they're doing a similar do you know what an auric is?

No.

So an auric was a, the predecessor to the modern cow.

So these were huge animals.

They stood like six, seven foot tall at the shoulder.

They were like three, four thousand pounds.

Um, and they were, they're mean.

They're mean and they're hard to domesticate.

So we domesticated cows.

So we kind of bred them, kind of like wolves to dogs.

We kind of turned those things into these smaller versions, which are now the domestic cow, but they're back breeding those things.

So they're going back and they're finding, you know, two animals have a little bit of DNA and then they backbreed and they keep making these ones and so i think

if not now within the next year or two they should have some of those fully fully bred i think i think uh

in europe they're doing it so it might be i think romania poland something like that interesting would you ever try some auric meat If it's available, it'd be interesting to try.

Yeah.

What's the most exotic meat you've tried?

I've had kangaroo in Australia.

I went to Iceland a few years back and I had some whale.

I had some fermented shark.

Whoa.

Which smells awful and tastes slightly less awful.

I had ram testicles.

God, what is this guy, Ivor?

He took me around.

He wanted to show me all this stuff.

And it was like all these sort of interesting, like sheep's face.

You know, you end up with the whole face and eyeball looking at you.

I've had pig brain.

You know, honestly, but none of them are really that good in my view.

I was like, I'll just give me a steak.

You know, it tastes better.

It's hard to beat steak, right?

It is.

Steak and chicken, I feel like, are the goats.

Yeah,

it's interesting because chicken has

dominated the U.S.

food market.

I mean, it's grown six, seven, eight hundred percent over the last 30, 40 years.

Whereas beef consumption, this is interesting.

A lot of people don't know that.

Again, back in the 70s, the average American was eating about 92 pounds a year.

We're now down to about 50 pounds a year.

So we've got a 30, 40% decrease in our beef consumption.

And during that time, we've seen a dramatic increase in, you know, autoimmune disease, cancer, well, certainly diabetes, obesity.

And so it's like, why are we blaming beef when we're eating a lot less of it?

And this is what we continue to see.

That is interesting.

So our grandparents were eating double the amount of beef we were.

Just about, yeah, something like that.

And the chicken rate went up, you said?

Chicken went up phenomenally.

Chicken went up from, I can't remember what the low number was, maybe 30, 40 pounds a year to where we eat like 150 pounds.

Damn.

Just chicken a year.

I wonder if that's a price thing or maybe there's way more of them.

Yeah, it's a price thing.

It's easier.

I mean, when you talk about like, and this is the thing people talk about factory farming, chicken, you know, broiler chickens or meat chickens, I mean, they're born five weeks slaughtered.

You know, they live, they live in a less confined area.

And so we produce a hell of a lot of chicken in this country.

And I personally

don't know that that's been a good, you know, a good trend, quite honestly.

In fact, we eat, you know, when it comes to the rest of the world, we eat a little bit more meat than most of the world.

But when it comes to this beef compared to like,

you know,

Europe, you know, Eastern Europe,

parts of Asia, we eat actually less beef and red meat, but we eat more chicken that is interesting yeah when i go to costco and i see their rotisseries they're so plump these days it's like what are what are they injecting those with well they probably i i'm sure they put a little like saline solution to plump them up i mean it's interesting as you might know that's a loss letter for costco i know yeah yeah they just they just undercharge get people in the door by memberships i mean people wait in line for those chickens it's crazy to me yeah yeah they're a big seller for them and they're a dollar fifty hot dog yeah i think it's the same thing all beef is it i've never had one so What?

No, I've never had it.

Wow, that's like a staple in America.

The Costco hot dog?

That's funny, man.

Well, what are you working on next?

Any books coming up?

Yeah, I'm writing.

Well, I am writing other books.

I wrote The Carnivore Diet.

It came out in 2019.

It's sold really well.

A lot of people have used it kind of as

the authoritative guide on carnivore.

But I'm writing another book on just health in general.

And it's provisionally titled Generational Health.

We talk about generational wealth, talking about how to set up

a health sort of system for your whole family so you can pass it on to your generations.

And I think that's, you know, honestly, you talk about what's the best thing you can give to your kids, you know, give them a healthy life.

So that's what the focus this next book is going to be on.

Obviously, I also just put a plug for our company, Rivero.

I mean, we are literally.

You know, you know, here's one of the things.

I'll go back to when I was practicing orthopedic.

So this is, you know, back 2012, 2013.

I'm on this low-carb ketogenic diet.

We have a lot of obese patients, right?

And they need knee resurgence.

They need knee replacements.

And that's a big operation.

And obese patients just unfortunately have higher complication rates.

They're more likely to get infections.

They're more likely to have blood clots.

They're more likely just not to heal as well.

And so the community came together and said, hey, we need to get these people to lose weight before they operate on them.

And they didn't like tell you like how to do it.

It was just like, yeah, figure out how to get these people to lose weight.

So I was putting putting people on ketogenic diets at the time.

And, you know, not everybody would do it, of course.

Some would do it, some wouldn't.

But the people that would do it, very often they come back to me a couple of weeks later and said, you know what, Doc, my knee doesn't hurt anymore.

I know we're on the schedule for whatever, two months from now, but I don't have any pain.

And I was like, well, if you don't have any pain, there's no reason for me to do a surgery as long as you can stay on the diet.

That was really interesting to me because at that point, I had gone thousands of operations.

You know, it's like another day at the office.

It's operation, operation, operation.

And that's how, you surgery should be.

It should be boring.

It should be no excitement, routine, same thing over and over again.

But that was really exciting to me.

And I remember talking to the hospital administration, I said, hey, guys, I would like to spend maybe a half a day a week just kind of talking about diet and lifestyle and nutrition with my patients.

And they basically told me, no, we don't want you to do that.

And I was like, what the F?

You know, what the hell is going on with this?

So that clued me into what the real focus was on healthcare.

It's not necessarily doing what's best for the patient.

I mean, it's like we need to make money and if patients get a little better, that's a nice side effect, but the primary focus isn't there.

And so, you know, as a physician, you know, as a quote-unquote healer, there are a lot of things that go into healing people.

It's not just what pill you can prescribe and what procedure you can do on them.

It's, you know, are they sleeping well?

Are they managing their stress?

Are they eating well?

Are they exercising?

Are they sedentary?

And we don't get any sort of real training on that.

I mean, it's all like lip service.

we're not experts in that, and we really need to be.

And, and, and there's no support for that.

You know, I remember all I could do, and I was seeing like 50 patients a day, is there's an orthopedic surgeon.

You're ridiculously busy.

It's like every five, six minutes, you got a new patient.

And so it's like, if you want to have a lengthy discussion about lifestyle, it ain't happening.

So I would hand out flyers.

Hey, go watch this, go watch this video, go read this book.

And so it was, you know, that was not only not incentivized to do the right thing with diet and lifestyle, but it was actively disincentivized.

And that got me really frustrated.

And so now the company we have now, it's all about lifestyle and it's all about those things we just talked about.

And the difference is just remarkable.

I mean, the patients are literally throwing their pills away.

I mean, I'm like, I don't need this stuff anymore, which is, which is cool.

That's how medicine should be practiced.

You know, we're talking about this make America healthy again.

And we'll see how it plays out.

You know, I mean, obviously there's a lot of people.

There's a lot of interest in this, but, you know, there's a lot of financial interest in keeping the status quo.

There's a lot of money made in healthcare and in the crappy food that they put out there.

So, you know, you're going to see what gets tied up in the courts.

What are the resistance?

What are the compromises that are going to be made?

And I think ultimately Make America Healthy Again is going to come down to Americans wanting to be healthy.

And it's just like,

you know,

you probably heard your other guests say this, stop patronizing these companies that are poisoning you from the food side.

And then you won't need the medications.

And

you can actually, I think we collectively

change how things go.

Agreed.

Yeah.

I think just as an individual, don't rely on the government to change your health, right?

Absolutely.

Oh, of course not.

Yeah.

And don't rely on your doctor either.

And this is the other thing that's interesting.

Let's say you go to the doctor tomorrow and you come up with some chronic autoimmune disease, right?

Say they say you've got lupus, right?

And you're like, what the hell is lupus?

I'm going to read about it.

And the doctor, you're going to go to the doctor, say, hey, doc, why do I have lupus?

And he's going to say,

probably, he's going to say, i don't know maybe genetics bad luck we don't really know um

and then you're going to say what can i do about it and say well you're going to take these medicines for the rest of your life and all we're going to do is manage it so that is it's depressing but it's really disempowering you know because now you're dependent upon this other dude to give you medicines every whatever yeah three months six months or whatever it might be and there's and you're told there's nothing else you can do on your own diet doesn't make a difference you know there's none of this stuff just take the medicines and and just kind of follow along and that's really unfortunate because really what we're finding is when you empower patients, you say, look, there's something you can actually do.

This is something within your control.

If you just fix the right things, you have a good shot of not only improving your situation, but literally curing your disease.

And we don't talk about cures anymore.

You know, when you ask doctors why, the answers are almost always we don't know or genetic or some kind of BS answer.

They're not trained to talk about cures.

You know,

it's a shame.

It should be.

We should be.

I mean,

you hear about like, you know, you think about all the drugs that have come out on the market in the last years, you know, the GLP-1 drugs, which I'm sure you're familiar with, the Ozempics and whatnot.

What does that drug do?

Does it cure obesity?

No, it chronically manages it for, you know, shot for the rest of your life.

I mean, these drugs are designed for you to take for the rest of your life.

Why is that?

Because it's recurring profit.

I mean, Goldman Sachs did a

study a few years back, and they asked, does it make sense, financial sense, to cure disease?

And they came back with a resounding, no, it does not.

Wow.

So there's no pharmaceutical company that really wants to cure disease.

All this stuff about curing cancer, it's all kind of a smokescreen for just, you know, more treatment, more treatment, more treatment.

Yeah, it's, it's,

it is, it is.

It's a little frustrating.

You know, it's a little disappointing that I, you know, I spent, you know, almost 15 years of my life, medical school, college, surgical training to enter this profession.

And then you get there.

And then after a few years, you realize that it ain't about what you thought it was about.

Yeah.

Your whole life was a lie.

Yeah.

That must have been a wild revelation for you.

It was.

It was depressing for a long time.

But fortunately, like I said, turning it around.

And I think we, yeah, I think, I think a lot of people are discovering that.

Yeah.

There's some scary side effects with those MPIC.

I know someone paralyzed from it right now.

Really?

Yeah.

Like gastroparesis or little like wild stomach, yeah.

Stomach problem.

Yeah, that's pretty common.

Yeah.

You think about, and this is an interesting thing because I'll go back to the carnivore diet here.

Beef, so

how GLP-1 is what's called an encretin hormone, right?

So it's secreted in somewhere called the ileum, which is part of your small intestine.

So you've got

your mouth, your esophagus, your stomach, your duodenum, your jejunum, and your ileum.

And there's this concept called the ileal break.

And so what happens is when nutrition winds its way through your intestines and gets to the end, there's still a lot of nutrition that hasn't been absorbed yet.

It stimulates these L cells, which secrete GLP-1.

And GLP-1 tells the stomach to slow down.

It says, slow down.

We got too much food coming in.

We can't absorb it.

Beef does it really nicely.

So when the beef gets there, it says, oh, I'm full.

I'm stuffed.

I don't want to slow everything down.

GLP-1s do it like times a thousand.

It's like it sits around in your system.

And naturally, it's in your system for just a couple of minutes.

This thing will sit in your system for weeks and weeks and weeks.

So that stomach gets that signal to stop moving.

This is why you get the side effects of paralysis.

So if you go to to the hospital and you need electric surgery and you've been on one of these drugs, they're going to make you wake, wait three or four weeks for the, for the effect to wear off.

Holy crap.

So that's, so that's.

That could be a life or death time period.

I mean, it could be.

Depending on the surgery, I guess.

Yeah, I mean, if it's an emergency, they'll do it.

But I mean, you know, like I said, you know, the reason they don't, they want to do that, because if you have a belly full of food when you go to sleep under anesthesia, there's a good chance that'll go up into your lungs.

You'll get aspiration, pneumonia, and potentially diaphragm.

Wow.

So food's in your stomach that long when you're on Zempic?

It could be in there for days.

Yeah.

Normally, food is in your stomach like two, three, four hours typically.

That's a typical gastric emptying time.

And you put on these drugs, you might have food sitting in there for three or four days.

Wow.

Anything concerning with TRT?

There's a lot of guys your age on that one.

Yeah, I mean, I don't, you know, I don't take TRT.

I mean, I know a lot of people accuse me of that stuff.

I'm a big, strong guy.

No, they're not.

Yeah, I've never, never done that.

I never had an interest.

Don't feel like I need to.

But I think that,

and again, TRT is about a four or five billion dollar industry right now.

I think it's over prescribed.

I know there are a lot of people that'll swear that they've seen benefit, but I mean, I think the majority of the people that would often, you know, go into the doctor, say, I feel like garbage, my testosterone is a little low get, put on it, put on this medication.

And some of them will get a benefit from that.

But the majority of them, if they just took a real

solid, you know, period of time and really, you know,

did the appropriate lifestyle things, not drinking all the beer and crap and the alcohol and getting good sleep and not, you know,

looking at their phone until two o'clock in the morning and actually exercising and eating

in a reasonably good fashion, not necessarily carnivore for everybody, but for some, a lot of people would not need to go on it.

And I get a lot of guys that are on TRT that they go carnivore and they're able to come off it because they don't like injecting drugs.

I think makes sense.

Have you ever come across a patient you couldn't fix their health issues?

Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Yeah, there's people that, you know, like, i mean depending on what it is there are people that are so irrevocably broken that a diet is not going to be enough now it's not that we can't sometimes improve them but to say we're going to cure every patient of every disease would be would be obviously uh not at all reality i mean there are patients that um will do a carnivore diet and it makes them worse wow i mean that that that occasionally happens i wonder why that happens you know i mean it's hard to say i mean this is one thing you know like i said we're collecting data with our company we're using ai to help us to analyze the differences between different patients patients.

So we can see, hey, this person's really going to respond really well to this particular type of diet.

This person's going to respond a little better with a little bit of this.

And, you know, like, like I said, I try not to be dogmatic about it.

I mean, I've been sort of,

I don't say pigeonholed, but I've been sort of cast as a carnivore guy.

But I mean, I, I, and I believe that it's a good diet for a lot of people, but I'm not the guy here telling you that all humans need to be doing this and it's the only thing we are and humans are carnivore.

You know, in my book, I wrote, we're omnivores.

I mean, clearly our will, you know, if cavemen would have come across Twinkies 50 000 years ago they damn sure would have eaten it tastes good right so eat that stuff so um yeah i mean it's you know like sometimes it's like diet is part of the puzzle i think it's a crucial piece i mean i don't think you're going to cure disease unless you address the nutrition um you might have addressed several other things as well but uh for sure yeah yeah have you seen the human jawline is getting weaker

Yeah, that's that's, you know, thought to be, you know, this goes back to some of the work of Weston A.

Price.

I don't know if you're familiar with him, him.

He was a, he was a dentist in the 19, I think the 1920s or so.

And he went around the world looking at,

you know, dental health.

And he would look at like these primitive or indigenous tribes.

And they had strong, healthy jaws.

They had good, solid teeth.

And he compared it to the modern, you know, people.

And they saw, you know, tooth decay, underdeveloped jaws.

I mean, people, you know, wisdom teeth that are impacted because the mandible doesn't

grow enough.

And so what happens is when we start off, we go on a really soft food nowadays, you know, rice cereal and stuff like that.

Instead of what, what, there's a really interesting paper.

It's about the comparative

anatomy or it's comparative mammalian weaning time.

So all mammals breastfeed, right?

That's why they're mammals, right?

And what they do is they look at the brain size and they compare it to when they stopped weaning.

And so what they can do is they can predict what the diet is based on their brain size.

Wow.

And so when they look at like, for instance, other primates, like for instance, an orangutan

breastfeeds the longest.

They breastfeed breastfeed for about eight years.

Holy crap.

A human, like a wild human, will breastfeed about two years.

Now, our brain size is 1,200 to 1,500 cc's.

An orangutan is about a 300 cc brain.

And the difference is, is the post-weaning diet that they go on.

Orangutan is going to be eating twigs and leaves, not much energy, not much fat, small brain.

So they're primarily breast mode.

Now, humans, because they breastfeed for such a short period of time and they have this enormous

brain compared relatively the only way it's it's possible they could do it is because they had plenty of animal fat and you know now these days because we can turn carbohydrates into really highly dense energy we're talking sugars and powders and things like that we change the the absorption characteristics we can sort of you know circumvent that requirement but back in the day it's pretty obvious that early human beings in order to grow their brain needed access to high quality animal fat in in in copious amounts Do you think our bodies are evolving because of all the new sugar and processed foods?

Like our kids are going to be able to process that better than us?

Well, I mean, over a period of many, many thousands of years, yeah.

I mean, you know, there's, you know, there are like regional differences depending on like where your ancestors come from.

Like people that, you know, lactose intolerance is a perfect example, right?

Two-thirds of the plant is lactose and talked.

Northern Europeans tend to have that.

They were probably exposed to earlier domestication of the cow versus some of these other

regions.

Things like certain

plant-based foods in particular, you know, like

grains in the Middle East.

You know, this is the sort of

the agricultural belt.

You know, first at Mesopotamia between the Tigris and the Euphrates is where the Fertile Crescent was where they thought agriculture originally originated.

So some of those people tend to have a greater ability to tolerate these things.

You know, I would posit that all of us, you know, healthy, I mean, sick people lose these ability, all of us have this residual ability to do well with meat you know and it can change over years as you get sicker and sicker and then you could say even farther back you can make the argument well we were monkeys in the trees eating fruit so there may be some some context that that was also a reasonable uh uh source of source of energy now again

modern times we have fruit you can you know we're in we're in vegas i mean i don't i don't know that I don't know what grows here.

Not much fruit here.

I mean, it's a desert, right?

So I mean, I guess you could.

But I mean, like you, in northern Canada, you can get strawberries in January now.

That's not, that's not realistic for most of humanity.

Yeah, you start looking at cultures and ones that rely on like a vegan diet and you look at their average height and their weight, and there must be a relation, right?

Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, absolutely.

There is a clear relationship between population height.

and nutritional adequacy.

So if you look at like a lot of the shortest populations in one, there's a great example in Africa.

There was a, I can't remember, I think it's the

Hottentots.

They were very, very small.

And I believe they have a plant-based diet.

There's another tribe, and I can't remember the name, and they were very much meat-based.

We could look at like the Maasai, for instance.

They're very tall.

And so it just shows the difference between what you have access to.

Like

India is one of the most plant-based countries on the planet.

They've got about 28% of the population is strict vegetarian, but the remaining 70%, they eat a tiny amount of meat.

They eat about 10, 15 pounds a year total, which is a small, small amount.

They have tremendous problems with stunting.

I mean, you know, on the world athletic stage, for a country with now the most populous country in the world, 1.4 billion, their Olympic medal totals are ridiculously low.

I mean, compared to China, similar size.

And back in the 80s,

their economies are very similar.

And China dominated

the

Olympic medal counts

compared to India.

So it has to do with food definitely impacts the populations.

Chinese people are short though, right?

Well, it's changing.

I mean, it's, it's, you know, I guess it depends on regions and stuff like that.

But as they get greater and greater access to more and more high-quality nutrition, meat in particular, you're going to see their height going up quite a bit.

Yeah, there was a, so this, there's, there's a prehistoric population called the Gravettians.

So right now, the tallest populations in the world are like the Dutch, I think some like in Croatia, some of the Central European places, they have these really tall populations.

And the average height is around six foot one-ish,

you know, average American height is about five, nine to five, ten, right?

Per male.

So that's pretty tall.

You know, if you go, if you have ever been to like Holland or, you know, northern Europe, northern

Europe, there's a lot of real tall people walking around.

Like you're, you and I are both tall guys.

And I walk around here, I feel like a normal dude.

Here, I feel like a tall guy.

But back around 30, 40,000 years ago, there was this population called the Gravetians, and they were basically specialized mammoth hunters.

They were all over like Central Europe, Croatia, and places like that, and Romania.

And they were thought to be averaging close to like six foot three back 30,000 years ago when the average human size was something like four foot ten or something like that.

So these were giants, these were like ginormous people because all they ate was meat, basically.

Interesting.

Yeah, that is good to know when I have kids, though.

You know, I'm going to get that.

Yeah, I mean, if you have kids, you know, milk is tremendously good for growing.

That's that, you know, there's strong correlations between milk consumption and,

you know, heights.

Same thing with meat consumption.

Really?

I thought that was a myth.

A milk one is good for your bones.

No, it's true.

It's true.

Yeah, it shows up.

It shows up pretty well in countries.

Wow.

I never know what to believe on social media, man.

That's the tricky part.

You can look at the source literature.

It shows.

I think it's, I mean, it's not like...

It's like a centimeter and a half difference.

But I mean, on a population level, that's significant.

That may be the difference between like your son being,

well, you're tall guy.

So if you have a son, you know, he's probably going to be at least six, three, maybe

something like that.

Yeah.

I did want to ask you about the stomach acid because out there you were saying we have the most acidic stomachs out of any animal, right?

Yeah.

Well, we have among the top.

Our stomach acid, our gastric pH resting with no food in it is about 1.5.

So the pH scale goes from 0 to 14 or 1 to 14 rather.

And one is the most acidic you can have.

That's like battery acid, right?

So ours is about 1.5.

A lion is like 2, 2.5.

half a cow is like five you know and so

why do we have such acidic stomach acid well it's thought that early humans were scavenging animals and so as a scavenger you would come across a you know a carcass that has already been kind of gnawed on by like a lion and you get some meat that's been sitting out for a while so it's going to be covered in a lot of bacteria so if you eat it If you don't have strong stomach acid, you're going to get sick and you may not survive.

And so this was the evolutionary pressure that drove this.

And there's, you know, again, there's another great paper talking about evolutionary justification for stomach acid.

And I can't remember the exact title, but something, you can find it.

It's something along those lines.

And they compare like every single,

there's a study that compares the gastric acid of every species or every major species on planet Earth.

And humans are among like

vultures.

not coyote, yeah, coyotes, I think, you know, some of these

scavenger animals are the ones that have a similar to us.

Wow.

That's interesting, right?

Now, when you hear about the alkaline water, then to offset the pH, is that just the S or what is that about?

I think it's largely a waste of money, man.

Really?

Because they charge a lot for those water.

Oh, yeah, I'm not.

I think there's a lot.

Again, I will tell you, I think there's a lot of stuff out there where people are just...

You know, there's this theory and there may be some mechanistic data, but what is the clinical outcome?

I mean,

I've yet to met somebody that's like put their disease in remission by drinking alkaline water.

I just haven't seen that happen.

So maybe I'm wrong.

You know,

I tend to be very skeptical about most things.

I mean, I know there's like some of this stuff, like, and I'll probably piss off some people, like methylene blue.

That's a latest one.

That's a hot one or not.

Yeah, but I just, my prediction, and I may be totally wrong on this, but three, four years, nobody's going to be talking about it anymore.

It's going to be like, it's going to be a fad.

It's come and gone.

You know, it might have helped a few people in some situations.

But, you know,

like I said, I'm really, really skeptical of most things.

I'm sure you've seen a lot of fads come and go in your day.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

And I, you know, like I said, you know, with the supplement stuff, I mean, I, you know, when I was a kid, you know, I grew up in the 70s and 80s and, you know, bodybuilding stuff wanted to lift weights.

You know, had all these magic supplements that the guys taking all the steroids would pose for.

And you think, oh, I got to try that.

You know, they never made any difference.

You know, it was just,

you know, like I, like I said,

eat a good diet, get good sleep, train, you know, manage your stress.

How long have you been on zero supplements?

Well,

10, 15 years, something like that, somewhere that massive man.

Yeah, I'm on creatine right now.

I don't know how I feel about that one yet.

Well, creatine, I mean, creatine, I mean, you know, like I said, I think most supplements are garbage.

Creatine has some good research behind it.

It's been tested many, many times.

It's been, you know, for many, many years, it was just an ergogenic athletic supplement, right?

It would help you.

to be a little stronger, might have a little bit more for like high-intense sprinting.

You know, you think, if you think about our energy system, so when we're doing a different type of work, like if we're doing like a sprint or a quick lift, it's all the phosphocreatine system.

So creatine actually benefits that.

So a couple, you know, stronger lifts, short sprints.

That's why a lot of people want a meat-based diet.

I'll see you improvement with that because you're eating a lot of creatine.

And, you know, I remember when it came out like in the, I think it was the late 80s, early 90s that it started to come out.

I remember taking it

back in those days.

And I remember I was bench pressing 225.

I was hitting like maybe 18 reps, you know, not bad.

But I, I, with creatine, I was able to hit 24 reps.

That was, you know, this is back in the day when I used to bench press.

That's still a big jump, though, six audition.

It was a big, it was a big increase.

So I know it did work.

Now,

you know, as you probably hear, a lot of the people are taking creatine for both brain health and cardiac health.

And so,

you know, I think, you know, there was a study that came out recently talking about Alzheimer's patients and dementia patients and adding creatine seemed to help with some of their cognitive issues, some of their memory deficits.

And they're going really big doses, like 20 grams at a time, which is a huge dose.

And normally, like the creatine loading dose was like five grams, and you take, you know, one, two grams a day or something like that.

And I think what you're seeing with that in that population is most of these older folks, if you look at what they eat, they stop eating meat.

They start eating like garbage.

They start eating, you know, they eat soft food because their teeth have all rotted out.

They're eating a high-sugar diet.

They're probably overall body creatine stores are minimized.

And so loading them with creatine actually helps.

And so this is why

I, again,

there are a number of substances that I think have some decent research behind them: creatine, carnitine,

carnosine,

but they all come from meat.

So I'm like, I'll just eat the meat from there.

Yeah.

It's been fun, man.

Where can people find your company and keep up with you?

Rivera.com.

If you have an autoimmune disease, you have a metabolic disease or BC diabetes, go to Rivera.com.

We're in all 50 states.

I am on social media, Instagram, Sean Baker1967.

I'm on X at S Baker MD, and then Sean Baker MD on YouTube and whatever else.

You want to see him dunk, guys?

Give him a follow.

There you go, thanks.

Let's go.

See you guys.

Peace.

Appreciate it.