Shin Lim: You WON’T Believe Shin Lim’s Magic Tricks | DSH #1548

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No, I bet.

FISM is actually more scary than AGC.

Really?

I haven't heard about one.

Fism is almost like the Olympics of magic.

You have all these judges sitting like six or seven feet away from you.

They all have little notepads.

And these are all famous guys, like famous magicians.

And then behind them is about 4,000 professional magicians.

Whoa.

Yeah, just like judging you.

Okay, guys, got Shin Lim here.

He's taking a break from social media, but got him back on the show today.

So thanks for joining us.

Of course, no, no worries.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, I gotta know what happened with the whole break thing.

Was that planned?

No, not really.

No, it just kind of happened.

Really?

Yeah, yeah, it happened during it.

Started with the pandemic, and then I

played Call of Duty,

you know, had fun just like relaxing.

I didn't have the show either because everything closed down.

And so I was like, you know, I'm just going to have a break off of everything.

And so I stopped social media.

And then

in 2021, MGM was like, hey, I think we're gonna open up again.

Like,

you should, you're gonna do the show, right?

And I was like, yeah, sure.

I'm gonna do the show.

And this was three months before we were actually supposed to open.

And so within those three months, I started stopping playing Call of Duty.

I

had to like really focus on creating the new show.

It was a completely different show when we reopened after,

I think it was like July 2021.

That's when we actually officially opened and

that's when everything started happening i started performing every night at the mirage and then slowly i was like okay i should get back onto

as well were you rusty when you took some time off like do you lose the skill no i don't think so i think it really helped actually it really helped taking a break because i was able to like kind of take a step back from the show.

Before pandemic, the show was very much like almost like a variety show.

So I would perform and then my opener would perform and it would kind of go back and forth like this no storyline nothing just straight up like here's a magic trick

and uh my wife casey she was like she was like you know the one thing you always need to to make the show like different is to add some sort of a story to give people emotion and i i really thought about that and so

when we opened i uh the show's kind of like completely different and so it doesn't really feel like a variety show even though actually in its essence it still is even the one at the venetian it's still a variety show but it doesn't feel like it it feels like a very cohesive nice like linear thing I'm learning about the power of storytelling right now and how it activates different parts of the brain so people like resonate with it yeah they can connect with it and that's the main thing you want people to connect with it and feel something uh rather than just being uh surprised or like uh

you know, well, what's being puzzled by something or laughing.

You know, those are just other emotions that

are

not easy to to grab out of people or to make it make them feel that

but you know you can do that through like comedy so many different ways of doing that yeah but the hard thing is to make someone connect to the actual show like really feel

like they know what you were going through because they went through the same thing as well yeah and so that's what story can do yeah has social media impacted how you uh arrange your shows because now people are performing their tricks online, right?

Maybe.

I think if I see a trick that is super common on social media, or let's say someone already taught it and it got a lot of views or something like that, then I'm like, okay, the normal people have seen this trick before.

I'll take it out.

Yeah.

Unless I really like it.

That makes sense.

There are tricks that I really like and I'll just never remove.

Yeah.

Does that anger you when you see people exposing how the tricks are?

No, no, no, no, no because I think that's how I learned.

I learned all my my magic on youtube

youtube university yeah no really i mean they they they teach the tricks like really badly actually oh really yeah yeah they're they're not like the best but it still gives you a foundation of like uh

the basics of magic yeah how the method is done you don't necessarily learn how to like perform it's hard hard to learn how to perform based off of youtube you got to like practice in front of real people uh but i learned like all of my basics like all like the beginner tricks i learned it all on youtube when i was 16 and if it wasn't for that if it wasn't for just the online presence of youtube tutorials i i wouldn't be a magician because my parents weren't wealthy at all i couldn't get a mentor or i couldn't buy tricks or anything online so i had to just learn everything for free wow yeah self-taught that's impressive yeah i feel like the older school magicians like they like to keep it hidden right there yeah yeah there is there is it's actually funny it's almost like a civil war oh yeah for four magicians that there's there's one whole group that is very much against it very very much against teaching tricks online specifically, and more specifically YouTube.

And then there's the other half that are like, nah, it's fine.

And I guess I'm kind of in that group because I feel like that's,

you know, magic is an art form.

It is a similar art form to music, acting, you know, anything that is.

art-based and so i i really feel like that is the way to take magic to that same level of appreciation is to treat it like an art form.

This is all learnable.

It's not like you have to be part of some sort of secret society or like to have some sort of God-given gift or something to be able to perform miracles.

Magic is a puzzle that you're performing in front of people.

And the person watching it can either try to figure out this puzzle in real time or not.

They can choose to enjoy it.

And then if you mix psychology, a little bit of math, science, sleight of hand, misdirection, when you add all those things up together, then it feels like magic when they're watching it.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You've probably seen so many tricks at this point.

Is there still a trick that you haven't figured out?

Someone do?

Yeah.

Okay.

So there's this one trick.

I don't, have you heard of Aussie Win?

No.

Okay.

So there's this,

he's a mentalist.

His name is Aussie Win.

And I was 17.

I'll always remember this.

It was crazy.

It was at a magic convention and I was with my mom

because she would, when I was younger, she would bring me to all like the competitions and conventions there these like i don't know if you've heard of magic live it's one of the big conventions here that happens here in vegas and i think this was uh this was an ibm convention and he uh

i went up to assie i was like hey assie i'm a big fan like you're so good he's like

stand right there he stopped a lady that was walking out of a magic shop they have these like uh dealers booth where they just sell magic and she was just walking out she had a bag not Nothing was planned, by the way, because I went up to him.

It wasn't like he stopped me.

Like, I went up to him.

So nothing was prearranged at all.

And he's like, hey, lady, stop.

Think of any card he asked me.

And I said,

King of Spades.

That's my favorite card.

He's like, you just bought a jumbo card.

A jumbo card's a big card.

You just bought a jumbo card.

Take that card out of your bag.

She takes it out.

And it's the king of spades.

No way.

Yeah.

And I still don't have no idea how he does it.

I have no idea.

Yeah, the mentalist stuff always blows my mind.

Yeah, it's cool.

It's nuts.

Like that, that is some psychology or something, right?

Yeah, it's psychology.

Sometimes it's technology.

It's body language, misdirection as well.

Sometimes they use sleight of hand, sometimes very, very rarely.

But

I love mentalism.

That's why I have them as openers in my show all the time.

I always have mentalists.

Is that a route you want to pursue yourself too?

No.

That's way different from what you do, right?

Yeah.

Mentalism is like, it takes a special type of person to be able to do it.

Yeah.

You have to be like really good at analyzing any situation at all times.

You kind of have to be able to read somebody, tell if they're lying or if they're

hesitant about something and then they use all that to their advantage.

It's really fascinating.

It is.

You carved your own lane in magic, right?

Like your own style.

Yeah, yeah.

It started at close-up, just regular close-up magic.

It's like, hey, pick a card and think of a card.

So that's like a very traditional style of close-up magic,

something that I found to be really fascinating.

And mainly I only did that because it was the cheapest form of magic, just a deck of cards.

But

I've always loved like film ever since I was like nine.

I watched Lord of the Rings and I and that blew my mind.

And I

was like, I want to do that.

That's what I want to do in the future.

I want to do something cool and epic.

And so then eventually I started learning magic when I was 16.

I thought it would get me a girlfriend.

So that's why I did it.

And then I

decided to like kind of create a routine that would be like that, like kind of that same feeling like after watching Lord of the Rings.

You watch something really epic.

And so I was like, okay, you need music and then you need to be able to perform.

But like instead of to the people, what if you perform to the camera and only to the camera?

And then you treat the camera as if it's a person.

I don't know if I did it like purposefully.

Like, I didn't really think that in my head.

I just kind of did it.

And all of a sudden,

it became this like new thing that people were like, whoa, I never thought of it.

You could perform it like as if you're treating it like a person, and you're looking at the camera like, yes, like you are the spectator.

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All of a sudden, it became great for performing it in a huge venue, right?

Uh, like the biggest venue I did was 16,000 people in Germany, and

of course, no one can see the 16,000 people.

You can't see deck of cards, but blow it up in a massive IMAX screen, and then all of a sudden it becomes like a totally different experience.

That is so cool, yeah.

That America's Got Talent run was legendary, yeah, yeah, that too.

That's what put you on the map, right?

It really, it really, um,

I didn't really know if it was gonna work, but I

just knew knew something different.

You know, really focusing on the lens.

And I think people were like, oh, yeah, this is cool.

You were like the first to ever really do it, I think, that way.

Yeah, where, like, not like dismissing the audience, you know, you never really want to just completely dismiss the audience, but

that is pretty much what I ended up doing.

Yeah, like, usually for close-up magic, when you have a spectator, you have to always like the traditional sense, you have to like really focus on them and communicate with them

and so yeah this was like the first time i was like i mean i did have a spectator yeah but i was i was like mainly focused on on the camera took a chance and it worked yeah what was your mindset going into that competition did you have any idea you'd win that uh

so i i do this thing and i do it all the time i still do to this day is I mentally rehearse what I want to happen.

And so I did it for Fool Us.

I did it for Fism.

Fism is like the Olympics of magic.

And I would mentally rehearse that i would win this competition yeah like i would mentally rehearse everything that would happen confetti shooting in the air them announcing my name things like that and so

i guess that's my answer i don't know i i didn't i didn't think oh yeah i'm gonna win but i would rehearse every single night like especially the month prior to agt i would just be like all right like this is gonna go well like this is what's gonna happen I would even mentally rehearse if something went wrong.

What would I do to recover?

Wow.

Yeah.

Almost like manifestation, it sounds like.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know if you believe in that type of stuff, but.

No, it's really powerful because it makes you

because you're almost psyching yourself to do well.

Right.

Because sometimes a competition like AGT or FISM, it's very nerve-wracking, you know?

I bet.

FISM is actually more scary than AGT.

Really?

I haven't heard of that one.

It's FISM's like almost like the Olympics of magic.

So

it takes place not every year, just like the Olympics.

Oh, it's four years.

Yeah, it doesn't take place every year.

And

you have all these judges sitting like,

not this close, but maybe like a little bit farther away, like six or seven feet away from you.

They have little notepads.

And these are all famous guys, like famous magicians.

Yeah.

And it's just terrifying.

And then behind them is about 4,000 professional magicians.

Whoa.

Yeah, just like judging you.

It's like a very targeted audience.

People you respect and look up to.

Yes, it's terrifying.

I was shaking the whole time.

Yeah, because AGT is just a bunch of casual normal fans.

Yeah, it's just like what we call like lay people.

Yeah, you're going to trust them no matter what you do, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Wow.

Less pressure.

That's intense.

So you won that one, too?

Holy crap.

Yeah.

You have to come out with brand new tricks and everything?

For FISM?

Yeah.

Yes, it has to be like original.

It has to be methods and even the style of performing something has to be like unique to them.

Yeah.

If they don't think it is, then they'll mark that down.

Wow.

That's interesting because there's probably been a lot of people doing the same things over the years.

So to completely create a new content must be kind of difficult, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's it's different for everybody.

I don't, I think mine just came out of chance almost.

Like it's almost like what I wanted magic to be like.

I want it to be

cinematic.

I want it to be cool.

I wanted it to be epic.

And so that all just kind of ended up making it what it is now.

It took took time to be able to create that, but

no, I'm glad I did.

Yeah, there's a lot of really big magic shows now.

It seems like the trajectory of magic

keep on rising, right?

Yeah, it's so cool.

It's insane.

It's cool to see that.

I feel like it didn't get the respect it did years ago.

And now it's like, it's like a cool thing to be a magician now, right?

Yeah, I hope so.

Yeah.

But I feel like in my parents' era, it's like you got made fun of.

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, even when I was younger, people were like, you can be a magician.

Well, the money wasn't there yet, right?

Yeah.

I mean, it's not that it wasn't there, but like, like on AGT, like way back, like in when it first season or second season of AGT, like they, whenever a magician would come on, it would never be like a cool thing.

It would always just be like kind of hokey.

It was never,

yeah.

And so

I've seen it change over the years, and I'm really happy with.

with how it's going.

Do you constantly have to keep improving?

Because you're on the show every night, right?

Yeah, I make changes.

every every single three months there's like kind of like a big change in the show uh every month there's like a minor change and every day i i kind of almost change how i say something or my hand movement i would try something out and i i it's such a good learning experience as a performer to be able to every single day you know just get on stage and then do something different because when you're when you're touring i've done a tour before it's tough like you you spend majority of the time traveling you go bus hotel theater, bar.

Then next day, bus, hotel, theater.

So you can't actually have time to like

experiment with different things.

You want to just make sure the show is good.

And with a residency, it's different.

Everyone knows everything.

The crew knows exactly what to do.

Lighting is all the same.

Theater is the same.

So you have the ability to just change

and try different things.

That makes sense.

What was the hardest trick for you to master?

What took the most amount of time?

Huh?

So this move isn't necessarily hard.

It's actually pretty like beginner basic, but I

practiced it so much when I was younger.

And

I just wanted to get really good at it because that was one of the first tricks that I actually purchased, a DVD.

It's called Real Secrets of Magic.

And they taught something called the Mercury card fold.

where you able to fold a playing card into a quarter.

And the whole idea is to be able to get that card into your mouth and produce it out of your mouth, which is the trick I do all the time now.

And so I would practice it hours and hours.

And I'll probably for like three years, I would practice it like practice folding the card into quarters really, really fast.

So you have to do it like under,

I don't know, a fifth of a second.

Like that's how fast you're supposed to do it.

And so I would practice in the bathroom in my

mom's house.

I'll just practice folding cards.

So the laundry, I would throw the card every time I folded the card, I put it in the laundry basket.

The basket would be just filled with folded cards.

And she'd be like, Shin, what the hell?

It's crazy what you could do with a deck of cards.

Yeah.

I had a card thrower on the show.

Oh, yeah.

I held up a banana.

He cut it in half.

Who was it?

It was a while ago.

He wasn't from America.

I got to remember the name, but he's one of the top throwers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's cool, right?

Yeah.

I wish I could throw cards.

I can't believe they can go that fast.

Cut a banana, clean it in half, and one throw.

Celery, carrots.

Not who's the best person you've seen with a deck of cards, like the most impressive, you'd say.

There's so many.

The top of my head.

So there's different styles of magic.

There's ones that are just the technique and being able to do really technically difficult things.

I would say Tony Chang in New York.

But in terms of performance and misdirection and methods, I would say probably

Juan Tamaris is really good.

Yeah.

But there's so many.

There's tons.

Yeah, you're friends with these guys.

I didn't mean to put you on the spot there.

Is Vegas still the hub for magic?

I think so, man.

There's so much shows there.

There's so many magicians here.

It was so wild moving here.

I'm like, wow, this is like Magic Town.

Yeah.

Feels great.

I want to go to more shows.

I've only been to Blaines.

Yes.

But I want to head out to all.

There's so many.

Yeah, yeah.

Come to my show.

Yeah, I'd love to.

At the Venetian, right?

Yes.

Yes.

That's a great hotel.

That's my favorite hotel in Vegas.

Yeah, it's very nice.

Yeah, it's great.

I saw you walking around the AMAs actually.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Oh, Oh, nice.

That was a fun event.

Yes.

Yes, it was.

Yeah.

Shout out to the Venetian.

And you perform five nights a week, right?

Yeah, Wednesday to Sunday.

Do you ever get burnt out?

No, because I change it all the time.

Yeah, if I didn't change the show, I would get burnt out.

I get bored, but I have ADD.

So I'm just like, nah, let's change something today.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Sometimes it'll be like 10 minutes before showtime.

I tell the stage manager, I'm like, hey, Kate, I'm going to do this thing.

And she's like, okay.

That's crazy.

We were talking before before about the riskiest acts you performed and you you did a crossbow act when you were younger yeah yeah

so someone shot a crossbow at your head uh no i would be the one shooting uh and it was a

so the the normal way these types of danger acts go is the assessment would hold the the balloon like right here in front of her head or an apple on top of her head and you'd shoot the arrow and it'd pop the balloon And so I wanted to change that routine and make it kind of like the shin style, whatever that means.

And so I was going to have music and well, I did have music.

I created the routine.

I performed it on a cruise ship, on the Princess Sapphire cruise ship.

And

it was a cool routine, but very dangerous.

So I would shoot the balloon right next to the spectator, and then right next to the assistant.

And then I would have a smaller crossbow with like a trigger and a little target, tiny little target.

And so I would shoot that target, boom.

And then that would activate that small crossbow to fire an arrow at me and then I would have a little blade to deflect it off.

So that was part of the routine, and so that part was really dangerous.

Holy crap, yeah, yeah,

and I'm don't think I'll ever do it.

Yeah, it's too dangerous.

Have you ever seen a trick go wrong, whether you're a spectator or somewhere live?

Uh

yeah, I would play plenty of times in terms of like something dangerous happening.

Dangerous.

No, I don't think I've seen it live.

Okay.

I've seen, of course, on like YouTube and stuff, especially this trick where they like

stab the nail right through their hand.

Painful.

Oh my God.

Is that a trick?

Like what exactly?

Yeah, it's a trick.

But what can go wrong is the magician either doesn't see the mark properly or some sort of tech technology thing goes wrong.

And so then they don't know where the real spike is.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, and so then

they just legitimately stab their hand because you have to like go really hard because they either use paper bags or a a paper cup.

And so with those things, you have to really smash.

You can't, there's no like,

let me see if the needles right down there.

You have to go all out.

And so if the technology thing goes wrong, the magician has to leave it up to chance at that point.

Wow.

And I've seen clips where they just, bah.

Jeez.

Yeah.

Actually, I think, I think Blaine.

He does it at his show.

He does a show.

And at one point, he actually genuinely stabbed his hand.

Oh, yeah.

I closed my eyes for that one.

And then he continued the show.

Apparently.

I didn't see it live, but apparently, he just took it out, he walked away, and he came back.

He's like, All right, let's keep going.

I'm like, Man, this guy's crazy.

Was he someone you looked up to when you were oh, yeah, yeah, he was what made magic cool.

Wow, you know, like, because

my first magician I ever saw was like a clown at a block party, yeah, and so that's usually was my like what I thought magicians were like.

And then when I saw Blaine on YouTube, I was like, Man, this is like so cool.

It was Blaine and Chris Angel.

You know, Chris Angel was the whole other side of like,

the magic is real.

Like, you know, like, he kind of gave off the vibe that he was Jesus

in that sense.

And then Blaine, of course, is the complete other side, which is very raw, very like street magic stuff.

Those street magic clips are legendary.

Yes.

And that, and it was mainly that which made me like, okay, this is cool.

Like, card magic, cool.

Like,

it's not lame.

Like, this is really cool.

So, I, that's, that's what inspired me.

What's your favorite stunt of his, David Blaine?

He's got a lot of good ones.

Yeah.

This one.

Oh, the bicycle thing.

Yeah, through the, through the bicep.

Yeah.

Crazy.

That one's impressive.

Well, he's actually doing it too.

It's not really that.

No, no, no.

It's for real.

He's doing it for real, which is absolutely insane.

I

don't know.

Any magician that would put themselves through that except for him.

Yeah.

It's

he does it every night.

Crazy.

At his residence.

There's two, three that really impress me from him.

The first one's the being frozen one.

Yeah.

For like a day.

Yeah.

That's insane.

The second one was the underwater breath hold.

What do you get?

Like 14 minutes, something crazy.

And then the hot air balloon one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That one was nuts.

Yeah.

And you just start flying with the balloons.

I was watching that one live and I was like, oh, yeah, that was on YouTube, right?

Saying bye to his daughter.

Like, this is.

Yeah, it was on YouTube.

That dude's willing to risk it all, man.

Shout out to him.

Modern day Houdini, right?

Yeah, pretty much.

Pretty much.

Crazy.

Have you met him yet?

Yeah, plenty plenty of times.

Nice.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

We're

pretty good, good friends.

Is it a pretty inclusive space?

Like you guys all collaborate.

There's no like beef or rivalry.

No, no, there's always beef in the magic world.

They were very dramatic people.

But

it is also very collaborative.

We always trade ideas all the time.

Like the conventions that I would go to, those are like the best places for magicians to exchange ideas and create new ideas because we're all in the hotel lobby just jamming.

That's what we call it, jamming.

And so we would jam on magic ideas and sometimes the best things are created there.

That's cool.

Yeah, it's really fun.

Would you say you've accomplished everything you've wanted to in the magic space or is there still goals you want to achieve?

I'm not too sure.

I always like to just explore

what I can accomplish with my hands.

I think that's like with magic at least.

And so

I've been delving a lot into like poker chips

and like coins.

Something of that type of prop.

Yeah, to to to kind of mess around with see what I can do with it.

Yeah.

So recently I've been experimenting with that.

Yeah, I feel like you'll never run out of things to master in magic.

Yeah, yeah, because it it is it is just like whatever prop you use, you you you get good at it.

So I used to I used to do cards and so I've done it a lot now.

I don't think I'll ever stop doing cards.

Cards is just fascinating.

Yeah, it is.

And there's something very magical about playing cards.

And I'll keep doing that.

But yeah,

I'll eventually delve into other things.

My brain just kind of always wants to do something new.

So you've probably performed all around the world.

Is magic pretty universal?

Like there's people everywhere that enjoy it.

Yeah, the audiences are just different, though.

How they react and how they see magic is different.

Like in Europe, they treat it

as if it's like an art form, very much so.

They respect it so much.

Wow.

In America, I think it's getting into that trajectory.

It's going there, but what it used to be for the longest time was like, oh, you fooled me.

Oh, you got me.

That type of thing.

Yeah.

And then in Asia, it's very different.

In China, actually, the audiences are...

I don't know.

I don't know how to explain it.

More reserved.

Super reserved, but it's.

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If they catch you doing a trick or something like that,

they'll call you out.

No way.

They'll They'll be like, it's that.

Yeah, I figured you out.

Like, you can't fool me.

That's fun.

Yeah, it's like that.

It's very...

More pressure out there.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

It's really, if you can perform for a Chinese audience, you're good.

Wow.

I'd be so nervous.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Holy crap.

Yeah, I did a

residency in Macau at a Studio City Hotel for a year.

And during my performance, the one with the card come out of my mouth and the smoke,

all you hear on someone's phone, it goes, do, do, do, do, do, and he answers like, oh,

and he just starts talking and Skyping this friend of his throughout the entire performance.

What?

Yeah, like, it's just that that's the type of audience that's

very clear.

You can't use your phone, right?

No, I mean, people will tell you, like, shh, you know, like, please respect the artist.

So, totally different over there.

So, if you can perform in China, you're good.

Damn.

You mustn't us.

Those Asians, huh?

Yes.

China.

Yeah.

Ruthless.

So that's the toughest place you've ever performed?

I would say so.

Yeah, yeah.

China would be

toughest, but also, I mean, it's good.

It makes you a better performer.

Makes you sharper.

Makes you sharper because

the audiences, they don't give a crap about like, oh, you've, oh, this move is really hard.

Oh, we don't care.

Like, you know, like, it's...

It's a different way of looking at it.

And, and it does make you better, actually.

I think that's just Asian mindset in general, honestly.

It is.

Nothing's ever good enough.

Like, you get an A, nah, you need an A plus.

Yeah.

You know?

Like, that's how my parents were when I was growing up.

Same.

And it's like a little traumatizing, to be honest, but it definitely worked on me.

Yeah.

It gives you like discipline and it really makes you

always strive to be the best at whatever you're doing and to be grateful for what you have.

And I think that's not a bad thing.

Would you say that was your main strength that got you to where you're at, discipline?

I think so.

Yeah.

I think I started as a pianist before I was a magician.

And so that kind of discipline with like practicing like eight hours a day

kind of transferred over to card magic.

Because I would do the same with piano.

You know, I'd make sure, like, okay, I got to get my scales down.

And then

I have to make sure that I know this song like by heart before I perform it in front of at a recital.

And so I kind of took that same regimen, moved over to magic, and it was pretty,

I found magic's actually easier than piano

in terms of dexterity, yes.

But magic has different aspects to it.

There's misdirection.

You have to master that.

And then you got to master psychology.

You got to master

camera movement now

with media.

There's so many other aspects to magic that are important too.

How far did you get as a pianist?

Were you getting a lot of gigs?

I never really got gigs.

I performed at a bunch of recitals and then

competitions too.

i i had won some competitions and then got a scholarship to university for piano for piano yeah for piano performance specifically yeah and then uh but i i couldn't i had to drop out about a year and a half into it did you start not liking it as much no no no the the the doctor there um they had like a resident doctor to like treat people with injuries for piano for music it was a music college okay

i guess either you have vocal issues or

in my case, it was carpal tunnel.

He was like, Yeah, man, you got you have carpal tunnel in both your hands.

And I was like, What?

He's like, Yeah, that's what all that pain is.

I was like,

damn it.

And so it was, it was really tough to

kind of hear that news because

literally I've been doing it since I was nine.

I've been playing the piano forever.

And that

was in my head.

Like, my goal in life was to be a concert pianist.

You know, that's what I had envisioned.

Magic was just not even magic was just a hobby

to try to pick up chicks or at least try to.

It's a good party trick.

Yeah, yeah.

Didn't didn't work, though.

But

I,

I don't know.

It was shocking.

It was shocking to hear that.

And so he was like, you know, you have to choose some, you choose one because you're doing too much.

You're doing piano.

And then what are you doing?

You're doing this card stuff on the side.

Like, he's like, yeah, you're like putting way too much pressure on your wrists.

And so.

I kind of, I took a leave of absence from university,

didn't really do anything for a year, and then I decided, you know what, I'm gonna try this magic thing.

Let's give it a shot.

So I started doing magic competitions.

And that's how, that's how it happened.

Damn.

So you had to reinvent yourself because you dedicated your whole life to piano.

Yeah.

11 long years, eight hours a day.

Wow.

That year must have been tough for you.

A year off from college and just being home.

At my parents' house.

Yeah.

I've been there.

Yeah.

When I dropped out.

Yeah.

It's kind of like humiliating a little bit.

Yeah.

But at the same time, I just worked really hard hard and it paid off.

College isn't for everyone.

No, no, it definitely isn't.

Especially like the SATs and stuff.

I still have nightmares about tests.

Yeah.

I never did well in like multiple, multiple choice.

I have like dyslexia.

So like sometimes I would circle the wrong thing.

Even though you knew that search.

Yeah.

Like I just, the only, the only class I aced well in was English.

That was it.

I was terrible at math.

I was terrible at science.

Like all my friends are like, shin, you're Asian.

What the hell?

Why are you in CP math?

Why aren't you not in the honors?

Like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm not.

Sorry, guys.

Crazy.

Did the magic take off right away or did that take years?

So, in terms of like getting good at it, I would say pretty quickly.

I realized I picked it up pretty fast, at least compared to like

what the guy on YouTube was saying.

He was like, it should take about three months to do this.

And I managed to get it in like a day or something like that.

So

I'm pretty sure it's because of the piano.

Piano gave me, you know, when you're playing the piano, you have to like move each finger

and has to be very nimble and you have to be able to like stretch in ways that aren't really normal, especially for like octas and stuff.

And sleight of hand is very similar in that sense.

You're moving your fingers and bending in a way that's not natural.

And so for me, I was like, oh, this is like the piano.

I think I can do this.

This is pretty easy.

Yeah, you already had the muscle memory of, because a lot of people can't do certain things with their fingers, right?

Sure, sure.

Yeah, and you mentioned muscle memory.

That is a huge thing of magic and piano.

Yeah.

You know, being able to train your fingers to remember some sort of movement that that you have to do at this very specific time.

And piano is all about that.

And then I realized card magic is also all about that.

So I found it pretty easy to pick up.

So you picked it up, got good, then did you start doing parties or how did it?

Yeah, I did I did some parties,

but the main thing was competitions.

Okay.

Yeah,'cause my mom was like, all right, right, Shin, if you don't make it till you're 24, you're going back to college.

You're going to get out of my house.

That's the Asian way.

Yes, yes.

So she's like, the only way to figure out if you're good or not is to go to the competition.

So very Asian way of thinking.

And so she sent me to IBM, which is like the International Brotherhood of Magicians competition.

It's like the biggest one in North America.

She's like, all right, we need to see how you compete against all the Americans, like the biggest one.

And so I did my very first one.

I was 18.

So I was actually considered not an adult at that time.

So I was competing as a youth.

But

they, at the very end of that competition, there's like a big one where they group both the youth and the adults together to see who does well.

And I got top six.

And that was pretty good because I was

the only youth in that top six.

The rest were all adults.

And my mom was like, oh, okay, maybe you're, maybe, maybe you have a somewhat of a strength in there.

It wasn't a good job.

No, no, not good enough.

So she was like, all right,

what's the next bigger competition?

And then FISM was it.

Wow.

How did that competition work?

Do you all perform the same trick or do you all have your own?

Yeah, you have to have your own routine that's original and unique to you.

And so

my first FISM I did was at Blackpool.

Terrible.

That was a bad experience.

Blackpool?

Blackpool in the UK.

Oh, so you flopped?

You didn't do well?

No, no, I didn't do i i mean i got okay so i got sixth place which isn't bad actually it's out of how many

thousands of oh thousands yeah yeah so what happens is for fism you have to win the north america your continent got it in order to be represented by your country so i won the north american uh continent first and then i represented the uh the u s

when i went to the international and so then there in asia there's i think i forget where it is i think maybe it was china at the time so you have to win that in Asia and then and then you can represent whatever country.

I don't know, Singapore or something like that.

And so it just, it didn't go well because, I mean, six places, you know, it's not, it's not bad, but

yeah, not good enough.

Not Asian good enough.

Yeah, not Asian good enough.

So which country usually wins those?

It depends on the category.

Okay.

Yeah.

So magic, there's so many different categories, right?

There's mentalism.

Right.

And there's illusions like Copperfield.

And then there's close-up magic, which is something that I do, and then there's stage magic.

But under stage magic, there's three subcategories: there's called manipulation,

general magic, and

one more that I'm forgetting.

And then for close-up magic, there's cards, there's micro-magic, and parlor magic.

Wow.

And so I was under the card category.

Got it.

That's probably one of the more competitive ones, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And usually the Spanish do the best under Spanish.

Yeah, under the card category.

Interesting.

Under manipulation, it's the Koreans hands down.

They're good at manipulating.

Yeah, the Korean.

So manipulation is the concept of producing many cards out of your hands or many bills or coins or anything.

I'm sure you've seen it on Instagram and stuff.

It's really fascinating.

And that is, in terms of sleight of hand, manipulation

uses the most.

So they don't really require misdirection psychology.

So all those other things are kind of left away.

Slight of hand is just like the main crux of manipulation.

Whereas card magic, it still uses, you know, psychology, misdirection, puzzlement.

Yeah, you kind of got to be good at a little of everything.

Everything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I could see that.

Manipulation, you're just good at one thing.

Just

the Koreans are just so good, man.

They're insane.

I couldn't do that stuff.

Dang.

That's cool, man.

What's been your favorite shows to see, to witness in person?

So when I was in Macau, I watched House of Dancing dancing water i haven't heard of that one it's amazing it was directed by franco dragon who did a lot of the shows here in vegas yeah uh he's passed away recently unfortunately but um

it's have you have you ever seen oh yeah yeah it's at the block

right the water one it's very similar to oh but like on a way grander scale wow it's it's unbelievable uh they closed during the pandemic they reopened so i haven't seen the show recently it's in macau it's in macau okay yeah i haven't been out there i need to see that one it's wild oh was nuts yeah i was front row and those dives were like i was like if you like oh man's house of dancing water is like the next level like franco dragon must have given like a humongous budget so he was like all right let's see what i can do with this massive budget i got a lot of respect for those circus ale talent i mean that's the thing easy no no they work really hard yeah some of those stunts are like couldn't pay me enough you know what i mean yeah i wouldn't do that for any amount of money yeah same

Yeah, shout out to those guys.

Well, Shin, it's been awesome, man.

Where can people find your show and keep up with you?

At the Palazzo Theater at the Venetian, 7:30 p.m.

from Wednesdays to Sundays.

Awesome.

I'll be at one of them.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for coming.

Thanks, Matthew.

Yep, check them out, guys.

I'll see you next time.

I hope you guys are enjoying the show.

Please don't forget to like and subscribe.

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