Matt Kim: OpenAI Created a Monster. Now It’s Learning Alone | DSH #1580

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Privacy is freedom.

Privacy is your right to selectively reveal yourself to the world.

Your information and your data and everything belongs to you.

It's about who you are.

You should be able to choose what information you share.

And we're in this upside-down world where the technology companies and the governments take all your information and then they allow you to keep certain things about yourself.

And that's actually backwards.

The government has access to all that information about you.

We see things about like, oh, Palantir, they're gathering all your data all this time.

And the reality is that it's your responsibility to be a keeper of your information now because we can no longer trust these big tech companies to protect you.

All right, guys.

Got fellow podcast host Matt Kim here.

He's also working on a VPN company now.

Thanks for coming on today, man.

Hey, Sean, thank you for having me.

And yeah, it's Vegas.

It's hot.

It's very hot.

It was like 105 degrees or something when I got here.

And that's normal.

That's so crazy.

I don't know how you guys live.

in this heat.

We don't live outside.

Yeah, we don't go outside.

Locals just stay inside as much as possible.

You have to, man.

It's way too hot.

But I want to learn more about the VPN company and why you started it and what makes it different from other VPN companies.

Well, privacy is freedom.

You know, the privacy, there's this cypherpunk quote from the Cypherpunk Manifesto that I think about a lot.

And the quote is, privacy is your right to selectively reveal yourself to the world.

Your information and your data and everything belongs to you.

It's about who you are.

And you should be able to choose what information you share.

And we're in this this upside-down world where the technology companies and the governments, they take all your information and then they allow you to keep certain things about yourself.

And that's actually backwards.

So we built a VPN company and a VPN that operates differently than other VPN providers.

Your traditional VPN, we call them legacy VPNs, are trust-based models.

Meaning that this VPN company based overseas in Romania or Israel or

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Lithuania or Panama.

You're trusting that these companies who have access to all of your data, that they will never lose, sell, compromise, or backdoor your information.

And it's 2025.

That idea is crazy because every time that a technology company has the ability to protect your data, I mean, they mess up.

They just lose it.

And sometimes it's not even intentional.

They don't try to lose your data.

It just happens.

So what we did was we developed a VPN where it is impossible for us as a VPN provider or anyone who were to ever gain root access to the servers for them to see your traffic.

It's the first zero trust VPN in the world.

And we really like the idea because if we can't lose your data, we can't sell your data, we can't give up your data to agencies throughout the world if we ourselves don't know what you're doing online.

And I think that's going to change how VPN and privacies are done in the future.

I think it's the first true technological innovation in the VPN space in the last 15 years.

And I'm super blessed to have just like the most amazing team around me to make this a possibility.

You got a rockstar team.

I don't know if you publicly announced to me, have you?

Yeah, I mean, you know, I have three partners in this.

One is Andrew Lee.

He is the original founder of Private Internet Access.

It's one of the largest VPNs in the world.

So he understands the space extremely well.

He actually sold

private internet access to Cape, who owns ExpressVPN and um cyberghost and a few others and they own all the review sites also which is kind of shady so best vpn then the same company that owns the vpns that owns that site side note um so andrew lee is one of my co-founders another one is roger ver

who is known as bitcoin jesus he's the original bitcoin evangelist he was trying to convince people to buy bitcoin when it was a dollar

And then our CTO is probably one of the smartest software engineers in the world, Mark Carpellis.

Carpellis.

He was the CEO of Mt.

Gox, which was the very first and largest Bitcoin exchange in the world.

So when he was like 23 years old, he was, you know, doing a Bitcoin exchange.

I mean, 2002.

Crazy.

So these are my co-founders.

And it's people that have a history of being for people's freedom, having the vision and mission of liberty.

and developing tools to give people their freedom back.

And that's really what it is.

We consider a VPNet a freedom tool.

Avengers.

Let's go.

I love what you said about data because I wonder how often our data is being sold because we're on hundreds of apps and they have all sorts of information on us.

Yeah, I mean, it's really scary, isn't it?

Because, you know, your information and what you do online is probably the most private thing you own.

So if I know what you do on the internet, if I know what you browse, I know what you like to eat.

I know where you like to shop.

I know who you're hanging out with.

I know what your side chick does, right?

I know what business you do.

I know what business you want to get into.

I know everything about you.

I know what your kinks are.

I know you probably better than your best friend if I have your browser history.

And the reality is right now that we let everyone have access to it.

Your ISPs, your Verizons, your AT ⁇ Ts of the world, they have all that data on you.

And, you know, we're here in the United States, the government has access to all that information about you.

We see things about like, oh, Palantir, they're gathering all of your data all this time.

And the reality is that it's your responsibility to be a keeper of your information now because we can no longer trust these big tech companies to protect you.

Because again, we've seen over again, we're in Vegas.

When Caesar's MGM got hacked and they lost all their player data, they weren't hoping like, man, I hope someone comes in and hacks us and steals out our data.

Like, that's not their goal, but it happens.

You can't trust them to do that any longer.

You have to protect yourself.

And in 2025 and into this kind of dystopian digital future that we're moving into,

it's their only solution.

You know, you have to take privacy seriously.

It seems like almost every major company has dealt with a hack at this point, right?

I mean, Coinbase recently lost people's driver's licenses.

I don't think they intended on doing that.

Adidas lost their user data.

You have the experience of the credit monitoring companies losing your information.

All the SSNs.

Everywhere.

23andMe losing your DNA.

That one's kind of scary.

That's crazy, isn't it?

They're going to clone us one day.

It's nuts, dude.

It's nuts.

So yeah, you just got to, you almost have to assume like they're going to get hacked at this point, I feel like.

Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, and if you go on Facebook or something similar and you opt in to give them all your information, that's different.

You know, you're choosing to give these applications your data, right?

This is part of the terms and services.

But when you use the internet just in general, you didn't sign that.

You didn't agree to that.

They just do it.

So I think you just have to be careful, you know?

Like when they were talking about banning TikTok,

they're like, oh, the Chinese are going to take all your data.

The Chinese are taking all your data.

It's like, well, they're taking what you do, Scroll.

But actually, we give, through these VPN companies, we give these foreign companies all your internet browsing traffic, which is more sensitive than your TikTok history.

But yet, why don't we ever go after them?

Why don't we go after Express and Nord,

who are taking all your information and taking overseas?

How can can we never go after them why do we only go after TikTok because of their scroll history like who cares if you watch some girls dancing on TikTok right like there's no value in that actually wow I didn't know those VPN companies were giving out those browsing histories I mean they have it all you know and if you have it can it be compromised is really the question you know are they doing it maliciously I don't know I don't know if I can make that claim but what I do know is anytime people have data historically they lose it.

So right now a lot of people are giving AI their data and just all their personal information.

What do do you think about that?

Some people are using them as therapists.

I think that's really dangerous, you know, especially when you use these closed models like OpenAI and ChatGPT.

They have all the data that you pump into it.

They have your information.

They have your history.

They have your stories.

And they have it correlated specifically to you.

Actually, so in developing the VPN, what we did was we patented the idea of network anonymization within a hardware secure enclave.

That's the patent pending on it.

What it does is anonymizes traffic with different endpoints.

So right now we're using it for a VPN, but we want to use that eventually to how you connect with language models.

Because if you think about it, right now you prompt ChatGPT and ChatGPT knows exactly that I'm sending this data back to Sean.

They know that you made this request and they know the information I'm going back to you.

It's actually really private.

What if the way it should work is that the AI companies send back data and they still give you the information that you request, but they don't know that it went back specifically to Sean.

You would still get the features and the application of the AI, but they don't need to know that they send it specifically to you.

I like that.

That's actually the better way to do it, right?

So that you're able to pull from multiple models.

They're able to give you the data that you want or they're able to give you the answers that you want.

but they don't know that they send it specifically to you, that it just went to a random place and people are just pulling from their data center.

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That's the better way to do this.

I think that's one of the next implementations of our technology that we want to do.

That's the open source model, right?

Yeah, I lean more towards that too.

Because right now, you sign up, you have to provide your personal information.

So they know you're the one searching, right?

Yeah, I mean, you know, for me, at least when I engage with AI, especially if it's something considered sensitive, I don't use something like a chat GPT.

I use Olama.

So I run my own AI model on my own computer, meaning that I download the model, I have the data sets,

and then I'm able to ask it the questions I want.

But since it stays on my hard drive, you know, once I'm done with the prompt or I'm done asking the question, I can just purge it and I delete it.

And there's no record of me having that conversation.

I think that's actually going to be the future for a lot of people, is that they're going to run their own models on their own hardware.

But for the people that aren't technologically understanding of how to do that, they're going to continue to use things like ChatGPT, which is a more centralized service.

Again, it's dangerous because they know exactly what you asked.

They know what you're worried about.

They know, you know, like, do you want your therapist to have all this information to the public for you?

Like, it's really scary stuff.

And they could probably sell it in the future, I'd imagine.

Or they can use it to compromise you.

All right.

What do you think happens first, AGI, or are these companies run out of money?

I think AGI is further away than people think.

I think that we've hit a technology wall actually

because,

you know, right now the AI companies are trading at these crazy valuations.

They are working on things like app integration.

They're working on features.

They're working on how do I make a video generator to make you a cartoon to get market share.

And the reality is if they were close to HEI, I think they would spend their money to make sure that they get to AGI first.

Why would you spend your money on marketing?

if you don't need marketing, if you're the first person to get AGI, you're going to crush the market.

The fact that they're spending time on user acquisition shows to me that they actually don't have that much technological runway left.

I think that maybe the next jump will be that AGI, but I think we're further along than people think.

Really?

Because a lot of people are saying this year.

Yeah, but if you were, then if you're XAI, because Elon has said this multiple times, oh, we're going to have AGI in like two years.

Okay, then why do you care that Grok is funny?

You wouldn't think about that at all.

You would just want to get there first because you would own the entire AI market.

You would tell everyone that works for you in your AI company, stop on all your marketing, stop on all your product integration, stop on all these other side mission projects that you have and focus only on the main mission, which is we're going to get AGI before everybody else.

The fact that they are doing these side missions shows that they don't have the pathway to get to where they want to go.

I mean, that's at least logically, that makes sense to me.

Yeah.

You mentioned Elon.

Are you going to join his new political party?

You know, I like the idea of a third political party.

I actually campaigned really hard for Trump.

I thought that Trump winning would make a big difference.

And I don't think he's a bad person, actually.

But I don't agree with a lot of the decisions that they've made.

And I don't like the fact that we were made all these promises.

Like

Epstein List.

That's a big one.

Obviously.

JFK, which is not as big because it's so long ago, but still people care.

You know, we were told that they were going to get rid of the deep state, but yet I've never seen anyone arrested or removed.

It might be even deeper.

We don't know.

But what we do know is that a lot of promises were made and we are just not to where we want to get.

I like the idea of a third party.

I feel like a third party that doesn't necessarily try to replace the Republicans or the Democrats.

I know that there's a Libertarian Party and all that.

But a party that kind of represents really the wish of the people.

So when the right and the left get gridlocked, which they do all the time,

that one party that can kind of be that swing vote, which is kind of Elon's idea, that that party exists, I really like that proposition.

However, I don't trust Elon.

I think it's...

I don't like how emotionally unstable he seems.

I don't like that he has these king of the world vibes.

I feel like he cares more about attention than he does actually kind of the greater good.

And I think that he has so much data from how people interact on X that it's very easy for him to say exactly what you want to hear because he knows what's trending.

I think that, you know, that's really a scary proposition to have someone like that in charge.

I like...

I'm really bottoms up type of person.

I think that grassroots matter.

I think that people should join together and that there needs to be more power on the side of humanity.

And I don't like the idea of technocrats, these guys that have too much money, too much power, and too much technology that think can kind of alter the way you view the world, the way you think, the way what you see, what you say.

Like, I think this is a really dangerous precedent that we're setting.

And I don't like the fact that, you know, especially during the inauguration, Trump comes out.

And they're doing the inauguration.

He's standing up on stage.

And in front of his cabinet are are the technologists.

It's like Bezos and Zuckerberg and, you know, Larry Ellison.

I'm like, wait, why are they standing and sitting front row in front of his cabinet?

You know, shouldn't his cabinet be in the front?

Because that's who he's going to be like affecting change with.

And it was almost telling because ever since then, we see kind of these technology companies get free reign to do whatever they want.

And, you know, I believe in technology, but I think that technology should serve people.

And I think the problem is that right now, technology companies try to use people rather than serve people they no longer create tools to help humanity but they create tools to extract from humanity

you know we say it all the time on social media like you are the product you know they sell you one thing they get you in their ecosystem and their goal is to how do we extract as much value from each individual user as possible so they no longer stick to what their core competency is but instead they try to figure out how do we extract as much as possible.

And I don't agree with that business model.

I think businesses should be in the business of providing value.

We had this conversation right before we recorded about how when you bring guests on, you want to provide value to them.

That it should be symbiotic, that it should be a win-win.

But technology companies right now, they're not looking for a win-win.

They're thinking, we're the technology company, and we're just going to use you as a product and extract maximum out of you.

Yep.

I call it conscious capitalism because I like capitalism, but at a certain point where you're really hurting the other side.

And you see that with, I don't want to name drop any specific companies, but people get these diseases from these chemicals.

And these companies know about it.

They know what's in their product.

And they still sell it anyways.

That's where I have a big issue with.

Yeah, I think,

you know, this idea of capitalism,

I'm a capitalist.

I believe in capitalism.

I think the problem is that capitalism runs on the premise.

that we live in a free market and everyone has a free shot.

And the reality is like in this world, in this society, in this system that we have, it's not fair.

There are different rules for different people.

And in true capitalism, everyone should be abiding by the same rules, but we don't.

Then therefore, are we really in a true capitalist society?

And I would argue that we're not.

Probably not, right?

Yeah.

Because especially on the legal side, if you can't afford the best lawyers, you get wrecked.

Yeah, if you have access to better lawyers, if you have access to a certain network of people, then the rules are different for you.

And if you're just a regular guy, a small business owner, a medium business owner, and you're trying to figure out life, like the rules are not the same.

You don't play by the same set of rules.

The example I think of is Delta.

You know, when the tariffs came out and everyone was scrambling, okay, how do we pay for all these extra tariffs because our cost of goods went up?

Well, Delta, they had a 757 that they're supposed to take delivery of.

And instead of taking delivery of in the United States where they don't have to pay the tariff, they took delivery in Japan to not pay that tariff.

And it's like, wait, I can't do that.

That's a different set of rules because they have the ability to do that.

I don't have the ability to do that.

And if we were a truly capitalist society, then we would all have access to do things like that.

So you think the middle class will be wiped out in our generation?

I mean, I really believe in the middle class.

I think that when there's a really thriving middle class, that life is better.

I think most people actually want simple lives.

They want to have a fair set of rules.

They want to be able to protect their families, provide for their families, and like live comfortable lives.

And most people don't have these aspirations of I want to rule the world.

They just like leave me alone.

The problem is that the people that are like leave me alone are

left alone.

And the people that want control are just gathering so much control that we are in this very top-heavy society.

And, you know, I'm conservative.

I actually believe in capitalism.

I believe in a lot of these ideals that we are told, but it's just not working out.

And if it's not working out for regular people, I think think we need to take a step back and figure out why.

And people don't want to do that these days, you know, because for you to pause, like it almost feels like you lose.

You know, I think that the best leaders in the world are those that selflessly sacrifice.

Meaning that if you're a CEO of a company, you have to be willing to be the last person to get paid, right?

You've heard that analogy several times.

But people don't do that anymore, you know, especially at the top of society, especially when you see these tariffs or you see everything going on.

The corporations and the top of the corporations, the banks,

the CEO of the banks, they're not going, okay, I'm going to take a haircut on my bonus.

They're going, okay, we don't care about the people.

We'll raise interest rates on everybody.

We're going to foreclose on everyone, but I'm still going to take my $20 million year bonus.

Their opponents never suffer.

That is not in the idea and spirit of selfless sacrifice because they never sacrifice.

And these are the people that run our society right now.

That's why I actually liked Elon at first because he put himself last.

I think he was the last to make money in all his companies.

But then he just started going haywire.

Now he's against Trump and it's a shit show, man.

I really liked Elon when he bought X.

I really believed in his idea that he bought X and he said, I want it to be this public digital square where all ideas can be heard and...

you know, the best ideas will rise to the top because we are free speech.

And I want to open source the algorithm so everyone knows exactly how it works.

And everyone's, I'm like, yes, that's exactly what we need.

And then we get into election cycle and you realize he is censoring certain people, that the algorithm is not open sourced.

That, remember, he said, I'm going to get rid of all the bots.

Yeah.

Where did all the bots go?

There's a lot of bots.

They're just as much as ever.

And people are like, no, the bots are gone.

Well,

I think when Elon bought Twitter, he said something like 50% of the users on X are bots.

Therefore, I shouldn't have to pay as much as I originally agreed, right?

That was

when he said that.

Okay, if that's true, and Elon at that time had 70 million followers, and he got rid of the bots, then shouldn't we have seen him drop to 35 million at one point?

But we never saw that drop.

So where'd they all go?

Did he remove bots for other people, but not him?

Like, I don't understand where that happened.

And every time you post on x it's just like porn porn porn porn porn porn everywhere everywhere you can't click a link you can't open up your thing you can't open up a dm because you never know what it is what happened to that i thought we were getting rid of that you're like okay they made a lot of promises told us exactly what we want to hear

but the promises made were not kept and i just believe in responsibility accountability you know you know that's for any leader if you make a promise

even if you don't get there

you should at least have an an explanation of why.

And people just, especially these days, the leadership, they just ignore it.

Like, oh, it just never happened.

Like, no, like, you guys said that.

This is the internet.

We can clip you forever.

We know you said it.

Where did it go?

There's a minute missing from the Epstein footage.

And they're not acknowledging that.

Yeah, they're like, oh, nothing to see here.

We swear we did our best.

We did our due diligence.

And forget that we said that we have the list on our desk.

Forget that we said we have thousands of hours of footage that we can't share because it's too harsh for you guys to realize.

Forget the fact that Ghislaine Maxwell is in prison for trafficking.

Forget all of this.

Nothing to see here.

Investigation over.

And the world was like, what the hell is going on?

And this is not a left issue.

This is not a right issue.

This is pretty much the whole world issue because it's like this crazy psyop that is happening again and again and again.

And

this one may be too big for them to overcome.

It seems like it, right?

I mean, do you think they'll get away with it?

I don't think the truth will ever get out, but I don't think they'll get away with it.

Because they got away with COVID.

Yeah, but now people know.

I don't think they'll be able to pull that off again.

They know, but who got in trouble?

No one.

Zero accountability.

Yeah.

Nothing happened.

And actually COVID is kind of this, it's like the punchline to a joke now.

Yeah.

No one actually thinks about it seriously, but it changed the way we live our lives, changed the way we see the world, changed the way I see the world.

And nothing happened from it.

But people's lives were ruined.

Maybe the same thing happens to Epstein.

Wow.

It has caused me to lose a lot of faith in politics.

Like, I don't think I'll ever take a politician seriously again, honestly.

Because he campaigned on all of this coming out.

I mean, the expectation was really high.

And even the people that were super supportive of everything Trump, like this 40 chest, trust the the plan, trust the plan, trust the plan.

They're like, but I don't know about this one, guys.

You know?

Will he recover?

I don't know, man.

It's going to be tough.

I don't know if he can.

It depends on kind of how the silent machine works.

You know, a lot of the accounts online are, it's just propaganda at this point.

And if they ramp it up to like, it's not a big deal.

Like, there was no list anyway, guys.

You know, Ben Shapiro is doing that.

There was no list anyway.

You know, PBD was like, there was no list anyway.

We're like, wait a a second.

What?

Just three months ago, you guys were saying this is a really bad big deal.

And now everyone's like, oh, there was no list anyway.

The Dan Bongino clips are hilarious to me from two years ago on his podcast.

I really liked Dan Bongino.

I really liked Cash Patel.

I thought they were going to go in there.

And this is something that they said they would do immediately.

And for them to be like, man, trust us guys.

We looked, there's nothing here.

I was like, bro.

It makes you wonder if that was the plan or they just got in and it was too too deep i don't know okay if if they were if you were a dambo geno or cash person type i'm not gonna say them specifically but if you were like them

how does that ask even happen meaning that you believe that this epstein list is the worst thing and you have to release it once you get your job

and they bring you into a room And they're like, hey,

we need to have a conversation.

We need to talk about this.

I'd imagine blackmail and family threats.

Who knows?

Yeah.

How do you even start that conversation?

You know, is it like, hey, we need to talk or like, this is how it is.

Like, how threatening of a conversation is it to make that happen?

I don't know.

You know?

A lot of people care about their families.

So I'd imagine once they scare them a little bit.

But don't you think that if they used families to threaten people to that degree, that eventually someone would be like, I can't do this.

But how come that's never happened either?

Ah, that's a good point.

Yeah, no one's ever quit spontaneously, right?

I mean, at some point, someone's going to have kind of this conviction where I just can't do it, but that hasn't happened either.

So what is their tactic to make?

Because I believe that these tactics exist.

I just don't know what it is.

And it's really hard to identify or blame if you don't know exactly how that works.

You know, we say, oh, there's the deep state, deep state, and there's like this group of people that control the world.

A lot of people say that.

But the hardest part is, how do you find an enemy if you don't know who the enemy is?

A lot of people will give kind of blanket statements and say, the globalists, the elites, the Zionists, the Jews, whatever.

But you can never actually identify who they are.

And maybe that's their power and that they're able to operate and maneuver society in a way that you can't identify them.

Because, again, how do you find an enemy if you don't know who the enemy is?

Right.

Maybe they're in Antarctica in the crack.

You know, living on the good side of the world.

Mind control is a theory, though.

I'm interested in that.

I think they're very advanced with it, too, and we we don't know much about it.

So they could be controlling guys like Cash and Dan without them even knowing.

Is it the premise that they can send out signals and then alter the way you see the world?

Or like at what level do you think they are able to do that?

I haven't looked into it enough, but I have heard of weapons like that where they can control the frequencies.

Isn't that crazy?

I mean, that's wild, you know?

It makes you question everything that you know and believe.

Yeah.

Like, do we even have a choice in having this conversation?

I know.

Or were we forced here to begin with?

Was it predetermined?

I mean, they've had the heart attack gun.

Have you seen that?

They've had that for like 50 years.

No, a little tiny gun.

It gives you a heart attack.

Really?

Yeah, look up that one.

So who knows what they have, man?

Who knows?

They could have alien technology.

Turn that into weapons.

Do you believe in aliens?

I don't know, actually.

I lean towards yes, but I'm not like, that's not like a strong conviction of mine.

What about you?

I feel like I'm the same.

You know, I think they could exist.

I personally haven't seen like actual evidence and I'm kind of that guy where I need to see it to believe it.

Otherwise, it's just theoretical.

And theoretically, I believe in it, but I don't have enough hard evidence to say it's true.

But I think it's possible.

Yeah.

And once I started seeing the government talk about it more, it made me not believe in it a little more.

That's exactly

the same way.

Yeah.

That Miami alien invasion.

Yeah.

That was a joke.

You know, and they're like, oh, remember the drones?

In Jersey.

In Jersey?

And that just kind of fades away.

You know, before they started doing all these congressional hearings on UFOs, I was like, oh yeah, UFOs, it's the thing.

And they start talking about it.

And maybe that's just me.

Maybe I'm just so distrustful of government at this point that anytime they say anything, I don't believe.

And I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad.

You know, like, do you want to trust your leaders?

Or is it right to just question everything and not believe anything?

That's a good question, right?

I would imagine you want to trust them, but it hasn't worked for us, right?

Yeah, that's the problem.

Blind trust never works.

If you trust them, you get screwed.

If you don't trust them, then you can't actually improve as a society.

So we're stuck in this loop of distrust and no improvement.

It's a problem.

Weird spot to be in.

Speaking of not trusting the government, SSFAS 56.

You've never disclosed this, right?

This one's a crazy one.

So, you know, I read this story during the USAID debacle because they were talking about how all this government spending and all these government programs were haphazardly or maliciously or deceitfully spending U.S.

tax dollars.

And I ran to this thing called SSFAS 56, which is the new accounting standard of the United States government.

Actually, I think they made that the official accounting standard maybe 2017.

Basically what this accounting standard does is that any program in the United States government that they mark as confidential

or classified, they can keep that on a separate book.

So there's the public set of books that the public has access to.

And then there is this secondary set of books that has no public oversight.

So when the United States government, and we've all seen these numbers, oh, the United States government can't account for $300 billion this year.

Like, oh, it must be all USAID money.

And the reality is, no, like, you can do the math.

Like, it actually doesn't have that much.

It's all these government, like, black programs.

And we have no idea where they're spending that money.

If you really want to make a dent in government spending, like let's just make public accountability.

And SSF 56 is the program and the accounting standard.

So it's literally the way that the government does the record keeping of the United States funds.

It has to be some sort of transparency and people don't talk about people.

Most people don't know it exists.

And when I first heard about it, I tried to tell everyone about it.

It's so deep that no one wants to deal with it.

No one wants to address it, you know?

That's scary.

Yeah.

So Doge is just scratching the surface, basically.

Yeah, I mean, Doge, I think they found what, $8 billion over the course of the next 10 years.

It's like nothing, actually, when you're talking about the United States government and their budget, right?

I mean, I think a lot of people had this huge expectation for Doge.

They thought that Doge would show up.

and they would find all these discretionary spending.

Yeah.

And the reality is they just didn't find much.

Because most of it's in this.

This is where the real money is.

Wow.

You know?

I really wonder what they're spending that on.

You can't know.

It's considered classified.

So who would have access to that?

Would FBI or no?

Not even?

Because I've seen cash say he even cash doesn't have access to certain files.

Yeah, they call it classified.

It's under c certain security clearances and therefore like it's compartmentalized in a way that even people within the government don't know these pros exist.

Wow.

And they'll say, for example, okay, two trillion dollars are spent here, but we only account for 1.5 trillion.

Okay, where's this other 500 billion?

Well,

it's it's like hidden away in this kind of accounting rounding error.

I'm like, oh yeah, they can't, they're losing all this money.

They're stealing it.

No, they're not stealing it.

Actually, we don't know where it is.

What are they spending this money on?

Crazy.

So we work so hard for our dollars, man.

And like when a tax seed comes around, I'm not happy.

No, I think.

I think I believe in lower taxes, not because I don't believe in social programs.

I do think that social programs need to exist.

I think that people do need help from the government.

I think that there are people that are struggling that could use it.

But I do know that when people have more money in their pocket, when the economy is good, people are willing to give up more money.

We've seen the study over and over again that when the economy is good, the amount of people that donate to causes goes up.

nonprofit goes up

because I think people inherently are good.

I think most people actually are good.

And they want to help their neighbor.

They want to help their community.

They want to help underprivileged citizens.

I think most people actually want to do that.

It doesn't matter if you're like which side of the aisle you are.

Even if you're like the most right-wing guy that says, I don't want to give any social program.

In your heart, you actually do.

Why?

Because you go to church and you still tithe.

You still give to the homeless.

You still participate in the Thanksgiving turkey drive, right?

You still do these things because in your heart, you want to help people.

But it's really hard to do when you're struggling.

Right.

The first thing that needs to be done is people just need more money in their pocket.

If people have more money, will they buy more stupid, useless shit?

Yes.

But they will also donate and help their neighbors more.

And I think that's how we solve a lot of problems.

It's just the government tries to force you to do things and they take all your money and they say, we're going to stop funding all these foreign wars.

But then we find out we're still giving monies to Ukraine.

We're still funding the war in Israel.

We're still funding

all these endeavors.

And

people are like, wait a second.

You told us this would stop.

You told me I'd have more money in my pocket.

But it's just not true right now.

You know, like people are struggling.

And that sucks because I think we've been struggling a long time.

We've been struggling since probably COVID.

You know, everyone's like, oh, Trump had the best economy ever before COVID.

Great.

But that was five years ago now.

For five years, people are like living, you know,

not easy.

It's tough right now.

Grocery bills are high.

I'm spending $100 at the gas gas station every week.

I mean, you got a big truck.

Yeah.

But no, it's tough, dude.

It's tough.

Like, it's definitely gotten way more expensive.

Like, people in my generation are not buying houses.

They can't afford them.

Okay.

I read that most people that are in their low mid-20s are, they like to consider themselves investor now.

And I heard the most trending thing to put on your social media profile is investor.

But people aren't investing in like traditional markets.

They're investing in sneakers.

They're investing in

laboobu.

Is that what it is?

I was luboo thinking that when you said it.

Laboo, right?

They're investing in meme coins.

That's like a very different way for the newer generation to invest.

Do you consider that investing?

No.

Not at a high level.

If you're putting investor in your bio, there should be a financial like barrier to that.

If you're like, I have at least maybe $100,000.

Cause if you're investing $1,000 on a Labuboo, that's not an investment.

But you can 10X on that.

Yeah, but then you make 10K.

I mean, no, when I think of investor in my head, I'm thinking of someone that makes money as a living from investing.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, I heard that it's the most common thing for people to use.

It used to be like content creator or whatever else, you know, just a few years ago.

That's a new flex on investor.

Investor.

Everyone's an investor.

That's how you get the girls now to DM me back.

Yeah.

Nah.

I don't like laboo boos, man.

You know, that guy is is worth 23 billion now that's crazy in like a month and i don't get it i mean okay maybe i don't understand maybe i don't get the social context of it why are they popular they just took off on social media especially with the females so tick tock and instagram girls just started making videos and everyone wanted them it's a scarcity thing but they just look like these little demonic dolls there's conspiracies that they are demonic yeah like I have a young daughter.

I would not want my daughter carrying one of those around.

It doesn't look playful, yeah.

I would feel really comfortable if she was walking around the house with that.

There's people waiting three hours in line for those right now.

Really?

As we speak, yeah.

We waited an hour because my fiancé liked him for like a week.

Uh-huh.

And we waited an hour.

An hour.

Just for a $20 doll.

And you don't even get to choose the one you get.

Mystery.

That's the appeal, too.

It's a mystery opening.

Hmm.

I don't know.

Shout out to that guy for inventing that.

$23 billion.

That's crazy.

Nuts, right?

And do you think that's even real?

Because

think about this if the news and the narrative is that this guy made 23 billion dollars off of selling luboo all of a sudden it makes you want the luboo more because people are like holy shit he made so much money on it there must be something to it and then it creates this fly flywheel of hype it's exaggerated for sure you've seen it with the forbes net worth stuff people always cap on that and they get called out years later so people definitely exaggerate their their net worth online i mean 23 billion dollars off a dollar is a lot yeah i don't know how they came up with that, but

one person says it, and all of a sudden that's it.

I don't trust much on the internet, man.

I'm going to go around and be like, oh, yeah, I made $50 billion from my VPN.

Everyone's like, holy shit, look, this guy made $50 billion on his VPN.

And all of a sudden, people are talking about it.

Like, oh, look at the guy.

Look at Matt Kim, $50 billion on a VPN.

And like, it just

Google someone's net worth, and then I'll ask them about it.

They say it's always inaccurate by a long shot, too.

Don't Google mine.

I don't think it shows up.

Do you hide yours on purpose?

i i try to scrub myself it's funny because i podcast

but i also try to go through and scrub myself yeah from the internet so the only content i try to keep on is like stuff that i purposely put out so stuff from instagram or youtube or x or whatever else so these are the items that i chose to put on the internet but anything that's considered personal to me that i didn't choose to put on the internet i go through and i figure out ways to scrub it off wow so you set a strong barrier with your personal life and your podcast.

Again, I believe that privacy is a right to choose what information you share.

When I put something and I put a video on the internet, I chose to put that out there.

But when a random data dump happens and my address is on the internet, I didn't choose that.

I don't want it out there.

That happens to me like 10 times a month because I'm on credit karma and it's like, you want to remove this?

Yeah.

Every month, it just gets leaked.

My address, my phone number.

like so much stuff.

And you also have to consider that if you're doing that, then they know that you're a buyer of their service now.

And you're someone that is willing to pay for, because the internet now knows that you're someone that will pay to have your stuff removed.

So now that you're more likely to get leaked because then you're a repeat customer.

Damn.

So they could be just purposely leaking my stuff on there and then charging.

I mean, that would be the best business model, right?

Yeah, that's crazy.

Identify the people that are willing to pay for the service and then leak their data because they keep on coming back and paying for it.

I have a lot of respect for the billionaires that have no social media and no internet presence.

Like that to me is super impressive.

I've met some billionaires that,

you know, and very high network individuals that kind of live by that model.

But then something happens in the world and they really want to comment,

but they have no social media.

So they tweet it and no one watches it because they never built a Twitter or an X following.

So now they feel like they're screaming to the void because they're like, I know something and I want to tell people.

But on plays like X, if you have less than 1,000 followers, your actual voice is meaningless.

Like no one actually cares.

I would say 10,000, honestly.

Yeah, the algorithm doesn't even show you to people.

So you're like, I know something and I have something to share and I have something really smart I want to add to the conversation, but it's designed where your voice doesn't matter.

And I'm starting to see that more and more these days with people that were like, I'm off the internet, but every once in a while, like, I really want to chime in on this.

But then they're just screaming into the void.

That balance, yeah.

Because I do want to live off grid eventually, but I don't want to give up social media.

I still want to be in the loop on stuff, but I want to have have my own land and everything.

I've noticed this trend of high-net worth individuals.

Everyone is going to that model.

Everyone I know is moving towards, like, I'm going to buy 50 acres or 20 acres or 100 acres, and I'm going to do my own farming, and I have my own animals, and I generate my own electricity, and I do my own storage.

Everybody with the means is doing that.

It's like, why?

Like, what do they know?

You know?

The bunkers, yeah.

World War III possibly Maybe either that or people are just feeling so trapped by this digital prison that's being built around us It's that they know that that's where freedom is is that you can do and say and be whoever you want and no one can chime in on you That's the only way you can be safe is to like protect yourself by actual physical land and we were talking about this at breakfast major cities have no sense of community anymore.

So that's another reason I think Yeah.

Like you're, you're in a great one now, but like here in Vegas, like you don't talk to your neighbors.

Like it's, it's not really like that in most neighborhoods.

I think that's really sad.

You know, I think community is really important.

I think that, you know, first you take care of your own family, your own household.

Then next you take care of your neighbors, you take care of community, you take care of your subdivision or whatever it is.

And it should go from inside out.

And we live in a place right now where if you live in an apartment building or a condo building in Vegas or in LA, You may see the same person every single day in the elevator.

You don't know their name.

You don't know what they do.

You never said hi.

It's like, wait a second.

Like I, where I live, I know all my neighbors' names.

I've been to the house for dinner.

I know what they do.

I know when they go on vacation.

They call me.

My neighbor says, hey, man, I'm going on vacation for a few days.

Can you just keep an eye on our house?

Cool.

I know when they're coming back.

I know what they've done in their lives.

I know their kids' names.

I know their grandparents' names.

You know, like, I know everything about them.

And there's a sense of community, of trust.

We know each other.

And the cities, I don't know why they're going, because you have access to all these people.

I think if you start to get to know your neighbors and your community, then maybe you do better.

And, you know, it's the idea of it takes a village to raise a child.

And we've kind of went away from that model.

You know, kids grow up alone.

And at some point, because of the way technology is, the way that people are living online only, We have to figure out a way to bring back a sense of community, bring back a sense of family, bring back a sense of we need to raise children together.

You know, I think about this a lot.

My kid's only almost three years old now.

Prior to having our first child, I didn't really think about this.

It didn't matter to me.

But now that I'm trying to raise my daughter in like the best way possible with like real traditional values and strong Christian values, and I want her to be able to be comfortable around people, I want her to be able to navigate the world and think for herself.

I'm like deliberately going out of my way to try to create these situations situations because people are so separated.

And sometimes we'll go to dinner with maybe another friend and their kid and their kid's just on their phone like three years old and all they want to do is on their phone.

That's three geez.

Three years old.

It's crazy.

And I don't do any device for my kid.

You're not allowed to watch any movies.

She doesn't watch any shows.

The only thing she's allowed to do is read books and play with puzzles.

And people think I'm crazy and it's definitely the harder way to parent.

But I think it matters because she learned to speak really quickly.

She solves problems really quickly.

She uses her imagination a lot.

She plays outside a lot.

Like I really want that for her because as we go into, again, this dystopian tech future where AI is going to try to do all this thinking for you, you're going to, the most valuable scale will be, can you think for yourself?

Can you solve problems on your own without the help of technology?

Because if you can be a problem solver, then you can leverage that technology to create and solve even bigger problems.

But if you don't know how to think for yourself, then you're going to let the technology dictate what you see, what you think, how you interact with the world.

And you can't let technology rule you.

Like humanity needs to win.

Right.

Critical thinking, right?

That's awesome, man.

Did want to talk about your podcast, too.

You've interviewed some of the most influential people in the world, Andrew Tate, Sean Ryan, Tucker Carlson.

And you do this on the side.

It's not even like your main thing.

What was the goal, I guess, with starting the show?

You know, when you first started a podcast, I've told this story before.

There was, um, I was watching the news one day, and my daughter was maybe six or eight months old.

And I was yelling at TV.

I think it was Sean Hennity, and he was talking about how much he loves Lindsey Graham.

And I was like, you're an idiot.

Shut up, whatever.

My daughter, my, my wife comes running downstairs and goes, shut up, go tell someone that cares.

You're going to wake up your daughter.

And it was like this moment that just like clicked in my mind.

I was like, huh, I'm going to tell someone that cares.

And I walked into the office the next day and

I said to my friend who works there.

I said, Will, I'm going to start a podcast.

And he looks at me and goes, I like podcasts.

And I opened up my computer and I said, how to start a podcast.

And that's how we started.

And the first three months, you know, you tell 10 friends about your podcast.

And they are like, oh, yeah, we definitely checked it out.

We listened to it.

And I have five views.

So I'm like, all right, you guys are lying to me.

But over time, you kind of figure it out.

You find your cadence.

You find what you enjoy, what you like to talk about, how you interact with people.

And over time, you kind of develop a flow.

And it was like

a few months into it, I was kind of doing what everyone else does, which is you take clips from your podcast and you clip it.

The problem is that no one knew who I was, knew my podcast, so no one's watching my clips.

And I wasn't famous enough or I didn't know anyone.

So I didn't have anyone famous or click worthy on.

I was just aviewing friends that I thought was interesting because I thought that's what you're supposed to do.

That's how I started too.

But you realize that you have to have some names to start the traffic and get it going.

So I decided I'm going to start just talking directly to the camera and start making videos about what I'm thinking in my mind and how I think about the news.

So I started these kind of monologue type videos.

And one of the first videos that went super viral is I made this video about the submarine.

You know, Do you remember

the Titan?

Yeah, I remember that.

Yeah, there's a Titan video and I said, hey, there's Titan and everyone cares about what's going on with this stupid submarine and this soda can in the water and these billionaires.

But the reality is, here's all the news we missed this week that got covered up.

And that thing went like gangbusters.

I think it did like 100 million views in like three days.

And I was like, oh.

People like this type of storytelling.

And I kept doing it.

Actually, do you know what?

I think that's the first time I heard your podcast.

Really?

I think either you or someone from your team said, hey, I just saw your submarine video.

We should podcast or something like that.

You know, it was really early on.

And I had never done someone else's podcast before.

It's like, oh, yeah, I'd love to do it.

And it just kind of faded away

because I had never been in a podcast studio before starting a podcast.

I just wanted to say out loud what I was thinking.

And just naturally and organically, it just kind of grew.

Wow.

So even linking up with guys like Andrew Tate or Tucker Carlson or Sean Ryan, I actually never reached out to them to like, hey, we should do this.

It just naturally happened through the course of me putting my content out there, putting my ideas out there.

And they're like, oh,

I kind of like the way he thinks.

And we just started a conversation super organically.

And naturally through our process, it was like, hey.

You know, maybe you should come on.

Like, okay, we come on.

The power of critical thinking, which we just touched on, right?

Yeah, I mean, people like that.

You were able to form your own opinions and not follow a script.

You know, we call our group,

every podcast has what they call their fans or the watch, your viewers.

We call it the free thinking army.

So we encourage people to think for themselves, to question all narratives.

It's not about listening to people you only agree with, that it's actually okay to listen to people that you disagree with because...

through that process, you actually are able to form better decisions, better ideas.

And you have to actually think critically for yourselves.

You know, I like to listen to people, not people that I necessarily agree with, but people that I feel are honest and genuine.

Because if you're honest and genuine and you truly believe what you believe, even if you are completely ideologically different from me, I feel like I can learn something because there must be a reason you really believe it.

But if you tell me something just to be the anti of what I'm saying, just because in a very disingenuous way, because you're the guy on the other side, I'm actually not that interested in that conversation because I don't have anything to learn.

You're just giving me regurgitating counter-talking points.

You know, like I'll sit down and talk with like the most racist people in the world or, you know, the communist people in the world or it doesn't matter.

Because if you really believe what you believe, there's something for me to learn from that.

You know?

I like that approach because now I feel like with modern day debates, it's just a screaming match.

Yeah, it's like I'm on this side.

You're on that side.

These are our predetermined lanes.

You have to take this side.

You have to take this side.

And we're just going to argue our talking points.

But

there's no resolution there.

There's no understanding there.

No one takes a step closer to the middle in order to find out.

And, you know, we've heard this saying a lot, right?

Is that on both extremes is that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

How else do you find that if you're not willing to search for that middle ground?

Was there any guests that changed one of your beliefs or a lot of your ideologies

that you remember?

There was

one of the most interesting interviews I did and I don't know if you've interviewed yet maybe you should it's a girl named BX no have you ever heard of her I haven't she's like a single mom who did this story on

remember the bomber during January 6th

she just started doing a story on that just looking into it and somehow She ran into the satanic death cult online.

Huh.

And it's like these group of people, these, they call them the accelerationists that are trying to accelerate the fall of society.

And she just ran into it.

And because she was curious and she was a private investigator by trade, she just kept on pulling threats, kept on pulling threats.

And somehow she infiltrated like their private discourse, infiltrated their private telegrams, found out that they're using

things like Minecraft and Roblox to recruit kids to join their cults and that they're exposing them and they're compromising them and they're convincing them to do kind of these really extreme activities on the internet

and that they are responsible for some of the mass murders throughout the country.

She just ran into it.

And I had her on and I was like, number one, I didn't know this existed.

Number two, it's ridiculously brave that this one girl is kind of challenging maybe the darkest part of the internet by herself.

I found it really interesting that, you know, the FBI and government agencies don't want to hire her or want to fund her.

So she's self-funding this entire endeavor, which is crazy.

Because again, she is literally investigating and infiltrating satanic death cults on the internet, right?

This is not for the lighthearted.

And I had a chance to interview her.

And I don't know her.

Some people will be like, oh yeah, she's a part of the PSYOP.

Like, that's crazy.

She's just like a person that cares.

And it's really hard to do good in the world without someone being negative towards you.

But running into her, I was like, whatever I think I'm doing, because sometimes I'll criticize the establishment or criticize deep state.

Like what I do is like actually nothing.

Like she's doing real work.

And I'll introduce you.

You should definitely interview her.

I'd love to, yeah.

It's the craziest story.

Sounds wild.

Wild.

Have you had any guests mysteriously disappear afterwards?

No, but we were really worried about her.

Yeah, that's a scary one.

While I was interviewing her, the fire alarm in our building started going off.

It's never happened in an interview before.

We're sitting down just like this, and all of a sudden, beep, beep, beep, the whole building goes crazy.

And we're looking at her like,

holy shit.

That's nuts.

Coincidence?

What the hell is going on here?

I've had three guests pass away within one month after the episode dropping.

Dude,

I love my life.

And I did not out alive myself.

You're not suicidal already.

Not at all.

Not at all.

I've had to make that statement, too, just in case.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

I mean, we are exposing a lot of

unknown things.

Yeah.

I mean, you interview crazy people, and I've seen some of the ones where some of the topics are just out there.

I've been worried on some of them.

Like Fuentes, I was a little worried.

Tate for sure, because we were talking in the car on the way here.

He's probably the most censored man in possibly history, but definitely our generation, right?

Yeah.

And he's got some powerful enemies.

Yeah, I don't.

Nothing he says is overly that extreme.

I wouldn't consider him an extremist at all.

His ideas aren't ideas that would radicalize people.

He just says it in a logical way that I think people can relate to.

And it's not whether or not you agree with him.

It's just not that extreme of a person.

Why are they so against him?

And you can say, oh, it's because he did stuff with girls.

But it doesn't warrant the amount of censorship he gets online.

It's completely disproportionate.

And I always wondered why that is.

Like, what is it about him that, like, what do you think?

What do you think is realistically why they are so actively censoring him?

From what I've seen him talk about is the male empowerment.

He really wants men to become stronger.

And I think governments see that as a threat, possibly.

But he's not the only person in kind of this manosphere.

There's a lot of people.

Yeah, there are a lot.

You know?

And it's actually a really big industry now.

So

it's not if that was true, then they would try to censor all of it.

Like, if you're this JQ guy and you only talk about like Jews all the time and they take you off of youtube i get that

because they actively want to censor that topic

but they're not censoring the manosphere topic they're just censoring him only and why what do you think i don't have no idea we gotta ask him yeah we gotta message him on signal because we can't even text him if you ask him he's like oh they you know they they don't want men to be men but i don't know if that's like that answer is just not comprehensive enough for me yeah we might have to ask him off camera in person yeah he's probably too scared to even reveal he might not even know, you know?

Which is scary.

How do you find an enemy if you don't know who the enemy is?

Yeah, that's super scary.

But dude, this has been awesome.

Where can people watch your show?

Also get the VPN.

We'll link a affiliate link, right?

Yeah, definitely go vp.net is the link.

We'll leave the link.

And if you want to support Sean's show and support me and what I'm doing, definitely click that.

You can find me on all your favorite Doom Scroll devices.

You know, if you just search Matt Kim, but typically YouTube is where I put the long form podcast.

on instagram and x we put a little bit of short form uh but the content you get on x and instagram is different than the content you get on youtube i make the content specific to the platform i don't do a lot of repurposing so people either watch me both or you some people like me on instagram only and don't like the long form some people only watch the long form don't like the short form it's just different like it man we'll link it below thanks for coming on mat hey

brother i'm a good one man check them out guys see you next time

i hope you guys are enjoying the show please don't forget to like and subscribe it helps the show a lot with the algorithm.

Thank you.