Dr. Anthony vs. Jon Otto Debate: Live Debate on Urine Therapy, Placebo & Proof | DSH #1602

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Speaker 3 Everybody out there in the info space is stop eating fish before you see this.

Speaker 2 Don't do the whatever. And you got microplexes and cutting boards and the linings of the cans and

Speaker 3 the black utensils, you know, and all this stuff. And none of them look at the science.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 What they do is they go on Reddit and they have their sales and marketing people find out what's trending and they just regurgitate it too.

Speaker 4 Okay, guys, got two guests that have previously been on the show. We're going to engage in a meaningful conversation slash debate today.
We got Dr. Anthony and John Otto.

Speaker 4 Thanks for coming on, gentlemen.

Speaker 2 I appreciate it. I've been the desert.

Speaker 4 Yeah, for new listeners, let's do some quick one-minute intros and then we'll get straight into the debate.

Speaker 2 Nice.

Speaker 3 You start, bro. Oh, me.
Okay, man. Well, I'm Dr.
Anthony G. Beck.
I'm an integrative and functional medicine physician for the last 30 years.

Speaker 3 I have a clinical method called Balance Protocol, which helps individuals find out what things they should do in their lives to maximize and optimize their health, specifically to them, recognizing them as a category of one and doing the right thing in the right order.

Speaker 3 And I'm here from sunny Florida.

Speaker 2 Let's go. Represent Florida.
Awesome. Awesome.
And a father of three amazing children?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm a dad for sure.

Speaker 2 That's awesome. Three princesses.

Speaker 3 It helps to be in Central Florida.

Speaker 2 That's awesome. So, yeah,

Speaker 2 one, I appreciate both of you guys for doing this. So

Speaker 2 my background, so I'm an investigative journalist.

Speaker 2 I did a couple of degrees in Australia with a specialty in those areas.

Speaker 2 Found a real interest in natural health because of my own health challenges as a child, and then took my expertise in that area, some of what you referenced when we were talking off the show, the humanitarian side as well.

Speaker 2 Because that was why I was getting those like

Speaker 2 that study under my belt was to comment on world issues, to be a part of solutions that related to human suffering.

Speaker 2 So my pursuit was then to try to, as best as I could, put an end to human suffering, whether it was against human trafficking,

Speaker 2 poverty, starvation. But then health, to me, it was all in the same category.
It was about oppression. It was about lies.
It was about information that could save lives. And so

Speaker 2 I went and produced a lot of award-winning films, so Filmmaker as well, and produced the Truth About Cancer series.

Speaker 2 Of the documentaries we've released, we've had hundreds of millions of views against the films.

Speaker 2 Primarily, people are pursuing that because they're interested in reversing disease, as what you're great at.

Speaker 2 And we are just a part of that huge movement in the world.

Speaker 2 And what I would say is that there are many people that report that our resources do help them tremendously in turning around conditions that many physicians are not able to solve for them.

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Speaker 4 I love it. Thanks, gentlemen.
Yeah, it sounds like you two both have similar goals.

Speaker 3 Yeah, there's a lot of synergy there.

Speaker 3 I mean, I know Ty Bollinger, he chatted with me back in 2010, 2011, something like that, back in the day when he was kind of, you know, revving up for his cancer stuff. That's cool, man.
So, yeah.

Speaker 3 So, I'm sure we have a lot of crossover.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you both want to get people healthy. You guys just have different ways about going about it, right? Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 4 That's the difference. And the big one I think we'll be discussing today is urine therapy.
That's right.

Speaker 3 I affectionately call it

Speaker 2 the golden delusion.

Speaker 2 Shots fire. Shots fire.
Yeah, out of mine.

Speaker 2 You should. If you believe that, you should.
And I respect it.

Speaker 2 And in this case, I would become the defendant because it's largely established today that urine is a waste product. So I'm the kind of kook and

Speaker 2 the odd one out in this one. So I don't mind being the defendant.
I think that

Speaker 2 there's an extremely valid case for this.

Speaker 2 But yeah, I can't wait to hear your arguments as well.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I can tell you, I'll honestly consider everything that you're saying and question everything I believe. Because if I'm wrong, I don't want to mislead people.
I can say that. That's fine.

Speaker 2 I absolutely don't want to mislead people. I love that.

Speaker 3 And I think that's why my method is called balanced protocol. It's a balanced understanding.

Speaker 3 I'm

Speaker 3 affectionately disliked by both sides because I'm in the middle. I take a very

Speaker 3 balanced look.

Speaker 3 at these things because you know here here i am you know by profession and education i'm an n d and a d o m well he's not an md okay well podiatrists or mds do you really want a an md podiatrist working on your heart i don't think so so we all have our space right?

Speaker 3 So I speak from a point of view that is clinically experienced. I call it skin in the game, right?

Speaker 3 And so I think a lot of

Speaker 3 dare we call it holistic things. I don't really like that term because to me, that's holist ick.

Speaker 3 That's my little make fun of it because everybody loves a whole list of pills, potions, and powders and the biohackers. I mean, people can Google me.

Speaker 3 They can go to my website and they can see the other podcasts I've been on. I mean, my opinions out there are pretty known.

Speaker 3 And of course, I'm the physician behind the scenes to a lot of the big names that are out there. But some want me to say, some don't want me to say.

Speaker 3 But the point is, is there are alternatives that are fantastic. Yeah.
Right. But then there's a lot of fantastic drugs and pharmaceuticals too.
I'm not a shill for big pharma.

Speaker 3 I don't like big pharma, right? But I train lots of pharmacists. So at the end of the day, it's a balanced understanding.
So anything that I can do to just give people

Speaker 3 the balanced look and then ultimately they can choose for themselves.

Speaker 3 I don't care if you want to drink urine or not, you know, but my clinical experience, I would highly advise not to, and we'll get into why, why that actually is because I've seen a lot of devastating things from it, and you'll probably tell your amazing stories.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So I can definitely agree that both exist.

Speaker 4 Have you seen any devastating stories on your end, Jonathan, with urine therapy?

Speaker 2 No, no.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 definitely not. So

Speaker 2 I'm very curious on what you bring up in that regard.

Speaker 2 No, and it's one of those things where it's like, it's interesting. Like I could show you the view counts on what we've got.
So a lot of eyeballs, and that's no bragging.

Speaker 2 What I'm saying is there's a lot of people watching what I'm putting out and the other physicians and

Speaker 2 advocates that I'm talking with and educating with. And so we have, in that sense, a lot of interesting information that comes back to us, right?

Speaker 2 So obviously, you know, you get the angry customer, and in this case,

Speaker 2 somebody that listened to something and it it hurt them.

Speaker 2 Like, believe me, to do no harm is number one. That's why you and I are both on the same page when it came to advocating against that harmful

Speaker 2 intervention. Pokey poke.

Speaker 3 I got a lot of YouTube videos taken down because of that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, for sure. Same channels and everything.

Speaker 3 But I told everybody that it was. I used the H word on it with an X, and boy, did I get, you know, because it is, and it was.

Speaker 3 So, yeah, so I'm definitely not into that for sure.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. And so,

Speaker 2 yeah, so

Speaker 2 to do no harm is something that I, you you know, I can see you care about because you said something about that and you were vocal and I was an M. And so we both have that in common.

Speaker 2 So I want to hear what cases you're talking about, whether these were like healing crisis, Herxheimer reactions that are not part of a healing process or whether there's something that maybe

Speaker 2 for a time that person or the dosage was too high or anything. Like I'm curious on that.
And then, yeah, I,

Speaker 2 and then the same question would go back to Dr. Anthony here as to, have you seen any positives?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, you have? Yeah. Okay.
Of course.

Speaker 3 You know, so I mean, so then how could you be against then? Right. Okay.
Cause, and that's a great question. So we'll get into that.
So I've seen positive from all kinds of things.

Speaker 3 I've seen positive from various, you know, jabs, cocktails. I've seen positive from different chemotherapies.
I've seen positives in all kinds of things.

Speaker 3 That's just the way that works.

Speaker 3 Then I've also seen them just devastate people. I've seen positive in far more in the method that I use

Speaker 3 than I've seen, there's never been any harm. So that's the cool thing because of the context in it, because we do things with a principle called Q square, M square.

Speaker 3 So that's my little adage for qualify, quantify, measure, and monitor. And this is where it'd be a great parlay into this discussion because this is the part that's missing that I think

Speaker 3 could make the difference for people. And that the vast majority of people, and this is why I take issue with biohacking.

Speaker 3 I can't stand the term, the thing or whatever, it's become very, it's a strong community. So you get that, you know, psychosis that comes with it.
I mean, I'm envious of it.

Speaker 3 I have my own, you know, community at balanceprotocol.me. And at the end of the day,

Speaker 3 people want to share their stories. Yeah.
But what's missing is people don't have a baseline start before they start implementing things, whether it it be urotherapy or it be

Speaker 3 photobiomodulation or methylene blue or herbs or

Speaker 3 anything. They just hear somebody who has a very eloquent marketing shtick

Speaker 3 and it's hypnotizing.

Speaker 3 I mean, back in the day, man, I mean, my goodness, I've had a patient of mine who she was very, you know, famous in the industry. I won't say the last name, but McKenna.

Speaker 3 And she charged, you know, 20, 30,000 just to do

Speaker 3 the marketing words of what the word copy is to convert to what your offer is. And see, I've been a clinician for three decades.
I've worked on over 100,000 patient cases.

Speaker 3 I've trained hundreds of physicians around the world. And so it's given me a very unique perspective.
And that is everybody is a category of one.

Speaker 3 And in order to determine what's going to be beneficial for you, for you to interpret the results, you need to have data prior, during, and after.

Speaker 3 That's missed by the vast majority of people. They do no quantification at all.
They go, I'm going to try it. And they've all got it, what I call that cabinet of good intentions, right?

Speaker 3 And so all the pills, potions, and powders, you know, all the gadgets and gizmos, and they block EMF and they do this. And I heard this does this.
And what do you think about this? They ask me.

Speaker 3 And I go, well, have you qualified it for appropriate for your case? And then have you quantified what you're going to look to change in it? Are we just going to be going on symptoms and how we feel

Speaker 3 and then therein lies the disconnect for anything that people try because there is a force in medicine and science that we all must account for and it's called placebo it's that powerful yeah and particularly around something like you know drinking your own urine it takes a tremendous amount of mental to take the first thing of course i've drank my pee before okay yes i've tried it well i respect that you would say that because some people don't want to even say that if oh and i'll even tell you I've even separated it, you know, the foamy cells at the bottom and the top, played with that, swished it around.

Speaker 3 I haven't put it in my eyes or done any of that stuff. We'll talk about that because boy, do I have a case that will crack you up? One of the bad things about it.

Speaker 3 And yeah, so but

Speaker 3 now for me, as they will, then I do I drink Monkooli and say, well, was that me doing the nocebo?

Speaker 3 So that's just as powerful. Like if this isn't going to do shit.

Speaker 2 Well, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Well, urine therapy would go straight into the nocebo, I think, because like think about it, their whole life, they've been told that it's poison and it's gross and it's terrible.

Speaker 2 And so now they drink it. Why would they feel better? Like, yeah, sure, some hypnotizing guy has then said, like, it'll cure everything or something stupid.

Speaker 2 And then, um, and so now they may be convinced by that, but don't you think the underwriting, you know the underlying program, the one that's more predominant is still that it's gross and they're like holding their nose, they're nearly vomiting while they're doing it.

Speaker 2 And then, but then it solves their health problems, which there's so many cases on that. And I'm, and I'll share all the medical journals that have published this over the the last hundred years.
And

Speaker 2 they're important

Speaker 2 because what I'm saying is that this is a lost art.

Speaker 2 And yeah, I think it goes past that because it did pass that. And it was predominant in cultures before

Speaker 2 double-blind placebos and all this. And it was passed down through generations and used during critical times in human history.

Speaker 3 But here's my pushback on that, that there are published studies in a lot of nefarious journals.

Speaker 3 Like, for instance, I'm a big opponent to, you know, the Life Wave patch.

Speaker 3 It's the biggest scam I've ever seen in my 30 years because it completely inert and doesn't do anything.

Speaker 3 But they have a massive amount of stories of people saying, oh, my God, I did all these wonderful things. It can't.

Speaker 3 So much so, I have it sent off to the lab now and wait till you guys see the chemical, you know, mass spec. that's actually in that.
So that's going to break the internet.

Speaker 3 But the thing is, is so people will say these things do things.

Speaker 3 But then these companies will come in and they'll say, we have studies or we have literature because people get me with that all the time. Well, where's your published work? Okay.
Well,

Speaker 3 I don't publish. I'm in the trenches.
I see, I work with, you know, patients, clients, or whatever you want to call it. And at the end of the day, that's my thing.
And I'm not a PhD.

Speaker 3 I don't look at research and just interpret it and then tell people what it says. And then, hey, everybody, this study said this, therefore, you should all do it.

Speaker 3 When they don't go and take the actual actual inclusionary and exclusionary criteria of the study, who is in the study. I'm sure we'll get into the Wake Forest stem cell study.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's pretty cool because it had a wide range of age in it.

Speaker 2 I respect that you know about it.

Speaker 3 Oh, very familiar. Good.
Which is where I think

Speaker 3 we're going to show a big difference in that. But so

Speaker 3 just because something is in a journal doesn't mean it's valid. It's just like if something has a patent, people say, well, this is patented.
That means nothing. It just means, right?

Speaker 3 It doesn't prove that it works. Same thing with FDA approved.
That doesn't mean anything either.

Speaker 3 So if there, there's a lot of journals out there that certain companies, like the one I just mentioned, will publish in that are not legitimate journals, but they're published.

Speaker 3 And unless somebody knows that that journal is legitimate or not, it's a different story.

Speaker 3 And so where I was getting with that is, is that when people say that

Speaker 3 something they do is based upon a previous colloquial group or history,

Speaker 3 it it doesn't carry weight with me like a lot of people think it would, right?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 one of my education being a DOM as a doctor of oriental medicine, I've, you know, went through that training.

Speaker 3 There's one of the things in there that's called the Yellow Emperor's Classic, right?

Speaker 3 And there's an acupuncture point for people who have the need to rip their clothes off and run around on the top of the mountain naked singing.

Speaker 3 Okay, so in other words, there are things that are

Speaker 3 in history of different people that do things, that use different things, like over in India and urine therapy, but these are the same people who bathe in the Ganges.

Speaker 3 Then there's some in Africa who they'll eat the foreskin of their young men or their dead relatives, and that's where the Ebola stuff comes around from.

Speaker 3 So my point is, is I, you can, all due respect, you can, you, you're far more traveled than me globally, right? I'm a, I'm a. I'm a United States guy.
Yeah, right.

Speaker 3 I don't have all the stamps on my passport.

Speaker 3 I've been to the Caribbean. My My point is: is this,

Speaker 3 I get that all those cultures have those things and they'll have those reports of stuff.

Speaker 3 I mean, there's cows walking around the streets and they just, when one's peeing, they run over to it and splash themselves with it. I mean, I get it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but

Speaker 2 they're not held in common. Like, say, for example, like one culture will say that ridiculous thing about running around the mountains naked.

Speaker 2 And I was going to make a joke that I struggle with that sometimes. But

Speaker 2 I'm not saying I haven't done it. Yeah.
No, I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 It's actually really good for your health there, right?

Speaker 3 So exactly. You're grounding, you're earthy, you know, Sun, sun, sunshine, everywhere where the sun don't normally shine.

Speaker 2 There you go. So, but anyway, but notice how then they're like, try to show me that that's in that culture.
Then in this African culture, they have the same thing.

Speaker 2 They don't, but what they do have in common is urine, which is super interesting.

Speaker 2 And I'm talking, like, and specifically, like, there's a really good PubMed article called Urine Through the Centuries.

Speaker 2 It's a weird one. You have to kind of filter through it.

Speaker 2 When I say a weird one, it's got this,

Speaker 2 it's like for the author's use only. It says over the top of it.
So you kind of, you have have to read through the words. But anyway, what it says is that it goes back through Egypt and

Speaker 2 Judaism and Greek, Roman, Ayurvedic, Chinese, Native American, Aboriginal, Australian.

Speaker 2 You know, it's kind of like you have to try to then find a culture that didn't have it German origins as well. But

Speaker 2 then why did they all find it? Tibetan cure for infertility was actually, strangely enough, couples drinking each other's urine.

Speaker 2 But then a company that created Pergonal, Air Serono, made $855 million in one year selling postmenopausal women urine extracts to women falling pregnant.

Speaker 3 Trillions have been made from horse urine. That's what primarily comes from, right?

Speaker 3 So again, absolutely, there's stuff in the urine.

Speaker 3 The problem

Speaker 3 is that

Speaker 3 no one knows what's in there.

Speaker 3 That's my...

Speaker 2 So you're for the extract potentially because otherwise. For sure.

Speaker 3 The urine-derived stem cells. Fantastic.

Speaker 3 But the thing is...

Speaker 2 Not the whole form of drinking urine.

Speaker 3 Absolutely not. Because you're getting everything else that's in there.

Speaker 3 And so to your point of, you know, these other cultures, see, that gives, and I'll just tell you, it has no weight for me because those cultures that do that,

Speaker 3 they're not even in where we're at now. Right? And in India, they have the largest population of diabetes in the world, which is.

Speaker 2 yeah, but they have disenfranchised uranium. Whatever, right?

Speaker 2 It's not really,

Speaker 2 it's not commonly practiced.

Speaker 3 Well, but that's my point, is that there's so much missing from the context. That's one of my tenets.
So I say category of one, q squared m squared. My next one is context cubed, like in real estate.

Speaker 3 You know, location, location, location is the value of the property. The value of your case is context, context, context.
You have to translate it through multiple layers of data and context of you.

Speaker 3 And even in like twin studies and stuff like that, if you live in different geographic areas, it's totally different. There's different people in the biohacking pro they talk about, you know,

Speaker 3 your mitochondria in Scandinavia is not the same as in the Caribbean. That's true.
So the context matters. So that's why when we talk about a universal therapeutic, such as urine therapy.

Speaker 3 Well, what about the context, context, context of the individual?

Speaker 3 See, there's no readily available Q square, M square, but listeners have to go go back and listen, the qualified quantifier, measure, and monitor of that person's urine on that day of when they're consuming it.

Speaker 3 That's the disconnect. There are elements in urine that are very useful, but not in its homogenized state in totality.
You have to separate them. And so.
So what would you do?

Speaker 2 Sorry. What would you do if you were stung by a jellyfish?

Speaker 3 Nothing. I'd rub sand on it

Speaker 3 because that's it. Nothing.

Speaker 3 Because I've done that plenty of times. I'm from North Carolina.
I've been stung so many times by jellyfish. I've been swimming with myself.

Speaker 2 Are you supposed to be on it? I heard that. What would you do?

Speaker 3 I remember when Madonna came out with that back in the freaking, you know, late 80s. I heard that.
And

Speaker 3 of course, I've tried it, but I'm like.

Speaker 2 Did it work? No. It didn't.
It didn't change a thing.

Speaker 4 I haven't been stung, but I heard to do that. So if I do get stung, I will try it.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Go ahead. And you know what?

Speaker 2 There's no harm in it. I've done it, and it works every time.

Speaker 2 And I get stung a lot because I'm always diving and

Speaker 2 bitten. Actually, here's one.
This one, a young girl, 14-year-old, stung by a scorpion, and she looked really bad. And the locals were saying that

Speaker 2 she'd likely die from it because it was a large scorpion. And

Speaker 2 she drank her urine because we were in the middle of nowhere. And I advised her to do it, right? So, but like, and firstly, I had no option.
So, what would you do?

Speaker 3 Now, here's the thing. This is where I would say this is where this comes from because the urine contains a tremendous amount of antibodies.
No, not antibodies.

Speaker 2 Sorry. No, it's okay.

Speaker 3 It can have, but see, the thing is, is like, for instance, cortisol. There's a lot of inflammatory things.
When a person is stressed or in a situation, it instantly gets sent through the whole body.

Speaker 3 I don't know if we want to talk about the adreno and then like a Google browser. Term that's all out there.
People tell that there's that scandal that's out there.

Speaker 3 But when you're under fear or you get stung or you're whatever, your body instantly gets flooded with a lot of of things.

Speaker 3 And this is why when you get scared, you pee, you lose that, that, you know, that grip for the kidneys and it puts it out. There's a lot of stuff in there.

Speaker 3 So theoretically, I can recognize that you could consume fear-based urine, let's call it, for lack of better term, in a moment like that.

Speaker 3 And instead of releasing that type of neurotransmitter or neurosteroid, it could go back in and then raise those levels and therefore report a benefit. So see, I'm open-minded to things like that.

Speaker 3 But the problem is

Speaker 3 there's no, all those are i mean everything that i do clinically my hundred thousand cases that i've done it's anecdotal yeah because it's not public so so i'm not afraid of anecdotal it is a lot

Speaker 2 right so yeah there's stories like that but and so yeah and then so would you and she came right out of it and and and it was amazing and so super so who was there to say hey here's what we got to do you were just stung by thing quick i know what to do let's have you pee in this vessel and drink it it was me yeah okay great yeah it was me what we were doing a famine distribution and we were headed on a truck on the way out.

Speaker 2 And my dad, Nath, who was,

Speaker 2 if he watches this show, he'll be very disappointed. He does not like me talking about this subject.

Speaker 2 Anyway, it's funny. Yeah, exactly.
So I'm like, dad, stay in the car.

Speaker 3 Anyway, and talk Doc Smack about my dad.

Speaker 3 He's just, you know, my mom and dad are jars of dirt now. That's what I say.

Speaker 2 People go, oh, that's so bad.

Speaker 2 Yeah, look, I'm just bringing shame on the family by talking on this subject. But anyway,

Speaker 2 it's good to have a guy. Oh, it's good.

Speaker 3 There's always going to be the black child.

Speaker 2 Anyway, so me and Nathan Crane, who's a health coach and researcher. Anyway, so we go back and I'm like, Nathan,

Speaker 2 this is what we should tell her to do. And

Speaker 2 I did use nicotine as well, and there's reasons for that. And I did use CDS.
I don't want to.

Speaker 2 That's the

Speaker 2 C dioxide solution. Anyway,

Speaker 3 and MMS?

Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. I just want to be careful about flagging things.
But anyway, so she came right out of it. But my question for you, Dr.
Anthony, would be,

Speaker 2 would you do it? Like, if you, if you had no other tool there, no,

Speaker 3 not even in the toolbox.

Speaker 2 You would just watch her and you just give her high fives. Or what would you do?

Speaker 3 No. Well, the thing is, is there's, I don't know more of the context.

Speaker 2 Well, just, you've got a 14-year-old that's got poisoned by a scorpion. And she's the first thing you want to do is

Speaker 2 right.

Speaker 3 So you, you want to stop blood flow to the area. So you talk about tourniquets.
Then there's, of course, you know, manual extraction, you know, kits and things like that they can do.

Speaker 3 And then what I would do is, is I would do my best to get her to competent medical care. Yeah, but that's not in my wheelhouse.
Now I've done it.

Speaker 2 But the point is that it's not there. Okay, great.
Okay, so now what?

Speaker 3 Now, here's the thing. I would still not have anybody drink their urine.
Okay.

Speaker 2 But what would you do?

Speaker 3 Now, if I had some MMS, I would absolutely apply that.

Speaker 2 Respect. Yeah,

Speaker 2 but let's say you don't have that. That's the point in urine therapy.
It's the one thing that's always there. And, and, but now you've heard even that I had the exact same situation.

Speaker 2 And what do you think are the chances of it killing her, her drinking her own urine, or severely injuring and permanently disabling her? Okay, so let me ask you this. This is a higher load.

Speaker 2 So where were you when it happened?

Speaker 3 With that case?

Speaker 2 Northern Kenya, Takana. Okay.

Speaker 2 And leaving a hotel that we're staying at, which she worked at.

Speaker 3 Okay. So now here's the cool thing about this.
And this is where I push back, is that it wasn't just the urine.

Speaker 3 There's nicotine, MHP.

Speaker 2 It's true. And I agree.

Speaker 3 So then there. changes the whole shenanigans.
Yes. So, and I, it's like, what do we attribute it to? Yeah.
You see what I'm saying? So then, what would happen is, is then there was no control.

Speaker 2 There wasn't. And I admit that.

Speaker 2 And that's why, and I, and I could have admitted those to use the argument more powerfully because no one's there, but I'm telling honestly, because I, you know, do no harm, do the best you could.

Speaker 2 If I had a red light device, I would have put that on that because that's also proven

Speaker 2 as an anti-venom.

Speaker 3 Well, not anti-venom. It has anti-it is.
It doesn't have that mechanism of action. Well, yeah, it does.

Speaker 2 It's proven against the Bothrops aspir snake. So look up the study.
What was the study?

Speaker 2 I put in red light therapy anti-venom.

Speaker 2 And it's through the mitochondria. It's through energy programming.

Speaker 3 See, that's what, but see, here's the thing. I'm very familiar with photobiomodulation.
I'm very familiar with cytochrome C oxidase. I'm very familiar with photons and what they do.

Speaker 3 I've wielded them clinically for three decades.

Speaker 3 That's another one of those things that I think what happens is people read a study and they extrapolate out of it incorrectly that red light photons

Speaker 3 have the ability to neutralize a molecule of venom.

Speaker 3 I know that so I disagree with that. It doesn't have that mechanism of action.

Speaker 4 Okay, I just pulled it up here. You guys can see it on the screen.
Red light therapy is not an established or clinically validated anti-venom treatment.

Speaker 4 However, some preliminary research and anecdotal reports suggest that it may help reduce inflammation pain and tissue damage.

Speaker 3 Bingo, it does do the latter. It absolutely can reduce inflammation.
It absolutely can increase circulation.

Speaker 3 All the other things.

Speaker 3 But as far as neutralizing venom, having a direct photonic to molecular interaction of neutralization, I don't have any scientific evidence or thing that would cause me to believe that that would be the case.

Speaker 3 See, that mechanism is not there. It's just like when he was talking about MMS, okay? Like when you start working with chlorine, like I saw a post the other day.
And matter of fact,

Speaker 3 one of your friends who I don't like, I'll tell him to Dr. Pampa, I think he's full of a lot of misinformation.
They did it.

Speaker 2 he's my friend. I guess he's seen it on each show.
Well, yeah, but

Speaker 2 anyways,

Speaker 3 I saw a post that he did one time where he was talking to you and whatever, and you're the one who got him to think about urine therapy.

Speaker 2 So that's unfortunate. But

Speaker 3 I mean, it doesn't surprise me given that, you know,

Speaker 3 he's not a bearer of truth. But the thing is, is that they're talking about, well, you know, in the grocery stores, that water, they're misting it.
Yeah. And they're misting it with chlorine.

Speaker 3 And oh my God, chlorine is bad for you.

Speaker 2 Well, that's called.

Speaker 3 before I do that. See, the point is, is there in social media, there's this penchant, this need to fear-monger, gaslight, sensationalize, give the sizzle.

Speaker 2 I just sent that, by the way, Sean, if you check that.

Speaker 3 So the thing is, is that hypochlorous acid is what that spray is on your vegetables.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. Hypochlorous acid is

Speaker 3 fantastic. Number one, not like a bleach at all.
Our bodies make hypochlorous acid.

Speaker 3 You have hypochlorous acid in your urine.

Speaker 3 You have

Speaker 3 hypochlorous acid in your cells. We use it on the skin.

Speaker 2 I think I was thinking of hypochlorite.

Speaker 3 Right. Sodium hypochlorite.
That is correct. That's a totally different molecule.
It sounds familiar, but it's not the same. So my point is, the context is

Speaker 3 they're like, well, the jug is like 10%.

Speaker 3 or 30%. Well, yeah, it dilutes it over, you know, the rain spraying on your vegetables.
Hypochlorous acid is a fantastic topical antiseptic, neutralizer, anti-inflammatory, or things like that.

Speaker 3 Now, you ask me, well, what would I do?

Speaker 3 Well, I don't travel the world so I would have it, but when I do travel, like to the mountains or go camping or things like that, I have my first aid kit, right?

Speaker 3 And of course, hypochlorous acid is in there. But at the end of the day, those are the substances that we can use.

Speaker 3 So my point to bring this, weave it back around is that people will take one thing and blow it up to more than what it was and then attribute the benefit to something that wasn't it just because it was there.

Speaker 3 It's just like, you know,

Speaker 3 in any case, clinically, there's so many things that have to be included and excluded. So what I don't do is say, I don't believe you, or that's a BS story.
I'm not going to deny your reality.

Speaker 3 I don't expect people to deny mine. It's just that you did more and there's far more power.
to do what you were talking about with that MMS molecule than the others even combined.

Speaker 3 And then we talk about, you know, we don't get either.

Speaker 2 And it is a MMS is a proven anti-venom as well.

Speaker 2 Calca does have their patent for that. Okay.

Speaker 3 So, you know, at the end of the day, that's what I'm saying. There's always more to it.
Yeah. That's all.
That's all I just want the viewer to understand.

Speaker 3 Context matters.

Speaker 2 Agreed. But there's a lot of case studies on people exclusively using their urine for snake bites and deadly animal bites.
That's just one that I personally witnessed. And

Speaker 4 I just pulled up with Jonathan son.

Speaker 2 That study you guys see that and and so like just defining my point there like you look at um uh

Speaker 2 uh in conclusion our data demonstrates that photobiomodulation with led light both red and infrared wavelengths when applied after envenomation in mice reduces the exempt extent of myotoxicity edema influ inflammatory infiltrate and hyper hyperal placing the mechanism of action on what it does it's nothing to the venom molecule well well exactly and and that's fine and so i could take that that definition of that it's not like let's not say that it's it's in and of itself an anti-venom but it's reducing the effects of invenomation of course and but but then working to help aid that issue and so in that sense

Speaker 2 um in a in a blanket sense it is like an anti-venom type therapy but yes i sure see i would push back on that and disagree with you see that's this is where

Speaker 3 You're a fantastic sales and marketing narrative. I don't have that.

Speaker 3 And what happens is, is that when people make certain statements,

Speaker 3 it muddies the intellectual integrity. And I'm not saying you're not having integrity.
I'm just saying

Speaker 3 maybe someone hasn't had this dialogue with you yet.

Speaker 3 Photons do what photons do.

Speaker 3 And then we go, well, how do we know what they do? Well, then that's established. Okay.

Speaker 3 But at the end of the day, there are different therapeutics that when you combine them with other therapeutics, you have a compounding benefit and effect. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 3 Let's go scandalous. It's the same thing like somebody going in out to Colorado in a sweat lodge and getting their hands on some ayahuasca.

Speaker 3 Well, not the same as if you go down to South America and you have a shaman do it where they use what other nicotine, other combinations. And then there's a combination that then makes it.

Speaker 3 So in other words, there's tons of molecules. that don't do anything until they're activated by or done with another one.
And so this is why the mixing of therapeutics is critical.

Speaker 3 And that's what I do. I don't just do this one thing.
I call them niche pickers. People love to have this one thing.
They pick their niche and they make everything about that.

Speaker 3 And I believe that's what urine therapy is.

Speaker 2 And you'll notice that, like, case in point, like, and this is just a particular case study where the girl had a good outcome and, but I used everything I could.

Speaker 2 And then I'm being honest about the fact that

Speaker 3 you did that.

Speaker 3 So that so the context now changes that you did a lot of other things. You don't have the ability to know what moved the needle.

Speaker 2 Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 But I can't, but this is an example example of something where this was my own self right so this is uh this is my leg right so this is something that i had for for two years yeah and it was terrible and uh

Speaker 2 uh that's this morning but within uh like a couple of hours after it well immediately after i had injected it with my urine okay um the the pain and the itching went away after it being like excruciating cool um so like here's the thing on that i know that you i know there's a million things we can say against it, but I but I can tell you that

Speaker 2 in the clinical studies on how urine has been used by major and documented, publicized in major medical journals over the last hundred years,

Speaker 2 hence why all the derivatives came from urine, urukinase, urea, et cetera, et cetera. Premarin.

Speaker 3 Stem cells.

Speaker 2 Yes. And so.

Speaker 2 Which we should talk about. But then

Speaker 2 now, like, then I see this visibly myself, and we then document it in so many cases like it. Like, you know, my friend here,

Speaker 2 this is an example with his skin, which doesn't look very good. Holy crap.

Speaker 2 And so this is Daniel, like a super close friend of mine. And so I visibly watched the changes as he was applying it over the days.
And yes, sure, this was

Speaker 3 all you do is apply urine and nothing else in his life. No other change.

Speaker 2 Before this,

Speaker 2 this was after like years of trying to detox, right? So sadly, this is kind of the result of all these toxins coming out. Then urine in and of itself, then

Speaker 3 can you show that to the camera? Because I'd love for people to see what we're talking about.

Speaker 2 And then we can, because this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Speaker 4 I'll have my editors throw it up to the camera.

Speaker 3 Okay, perfect. So here's my thing on that, Jonathan.

Speaker 3 You see the content. See, I love to focus on the patient's unique story, what got them to where they're at.
Yeah. Okay.
So this guy, I'm just picking him, correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 3 He had a history of trying to detox.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 Well, I've mentioned a guy who sells a detox for $8,000 who has sent me so many patients because of how much it's wrecked their health.

Speaker 3 The thing is, is that that's what happens out there in the industry is people going out, oh, they hear, oh, I need to detox.

Speaker 3 Thank goodness now you're hearing people say, well, we got to open up the pathways, right? Which is true.

Speaker 3 But at the same time, they're not knowing what they're detoxing, what the other systems that they're going to now rely upon to command the body to do these therapeutics that we're going to interact with.

Speaker 3 And then you have countless, I have countless stories like that. That's that's like the gray skin on Game of Thrones.
That's, I, you know, I've had one like that.

Speaker 2 It was pot reptilian, right?

Speaker 3 So at the end of the day, he has a backstory that got him to that.

Speaker 3 Let that be a lesson to the listeners that that's what happens when you listen to a sales or marketing funnel or you go to one of the detox summits.

Speaker 2 But he had amalgams. And so, yeah, we could

Speaker 2 do his best. And he's a pharmacist himself.
So he's a healthy person. There's a lot of people doing their best.

Speaker 3 The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Speaker 2 But anyway, just in case people,

Speaker 2 which you'll hate this, but like

Speaker 2 this was me

Speaker 2 just trying to work it out, right? So I took a peptide needle, insulin needle, and then I injected a 32 gauge. Yeah.
And then I injected these little bubbles into it.

Speaker 2 And again, this is two years at this point, and I could not get rid of it. And I tried everything, right? And I have got a tripod company.
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2 Exactly. But, but, but then think about that.
Couldn't we argue that that's a sales pitch? What's that? Right.

Speaker 2 That I had to try, that I could, I could have tried.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Oh, man.
I'm, I'm always, I'm, I'm learning to, to, you know, always be closing ABC. Yeah, I'm trying.

Speaker 2 But this is me closing people on themselves. Like, nothing was extracted here.
Like, no, no credit card, no Amazon, no me, no you. I got it.

Speaker 2 And we, like, if this is like for me, after years of this, right? But what was the cause of that? Well,

Speaker 2 well, what if we don't ever find out? And what if we don't need to find out? Even though I'm saying, yeah, that's great. And we could run a bunch of lab tests and we could get to the bottom of it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, then that was the next, that was three days later. But like, as soon as I put that in there, that urine goes into my body.

Speaker 2 And remember, like, there are antibodies and there are all these different responses from that.

Speaker 3 But you don't know that. Well, you didn't test the urine.
You don't know what's in there.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but that's like this scientism kind of idea.

Speaker 3 I get it. That's why we need scientists.

Speaker 2 I'm making this so complicated by,

Speaker 2 yeah, but what if it doesn't have to be? In this case, it wasn't. I just put it in my body, and then immediately I felt no itch, no pain.
I could sleep at night, which I couldn't.

Speaker 2 And then three days later, it was like that. And then you saw the picture of what it was like this morning.

Speaker 3 Sure, it's noteworthy. But

Speaker 3 here's what I would say. But what if it wasn't? What if, because we're going to do the what if in the

Speaker 3 game, but it's, you know,

Speaker 3 what if, okay, because that's what scientific method starts with, a hypothesis. You have a hypothesis.
You're forming a hypothesis. You do tests.
It's just like we figured out, you know,

Speaker 3 what berry berry was okay or what we do normally suggests people eating their flesh to see if it would do so my whole thing is is this but what if somebody does the same thing goes to their you know my mom was a type one diabetic her pancreas was killed by by a steroid shot by doctors for a nasal infection so

Speaker 3 if i you know i used to take her her her syringes and one time i was spinning around thought it was funny and i had my tongue and that bit my tongue off it was pretty funny it was literally so anyways so i'm mentally triggered to the to the bd 32 gauge needle yeah but anyways so what if somebody takes their mom's insulin needle and then goes pull draws their urine in and starts shooting it into something that they do because they heard that now yeah it's possible you see what i'm saying so it's probable because you're very passionate about you and that's a crazy ass story it's a great story But then there is a, there's value in,

Speaker 3 dare I say medical, but just scientific restraint, because that's what the scientific method is. This is what I tell people.
Yes, what I do is anecdotal, and I don't have all these published studies.

Speaker 3 But the thing is, is that I go, here's a hypothesis. Here's what I did.
I've repeated it tens of thousands of times, and it's not just one therapeutic, it's everything. It's complicated.

Speaker 3 And they did these things in these order because we never detox first. Detox is the absolute last thing you do.
You have to nourish the patient first,

Speaker 3 then you balance out systems, and then you biotransformation. People who try to detox first are the ones who have the Herxheim reactions.

Speaker 3 And then, of course, you know, Pompeo says, push through the pain. But my whole point is, is this.
That's a great story.

Speaker 3 So is the grayscale neck thing of the guy, but he's got a story.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he does.

Speaker 2 But like, we know that there's stem cells in urine. We know that there's antibodies in urine.
We know there's enzymes in urine. We know there's a urea.

Speaker 2 Well, let's talk about those components.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 Yes, all those things are in there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 But you can't

Speaker 3 when, when, here's this is where a fundamental lacking of understanding of science, medicine, biology is super important.

Speaker 2 And this is where I think that that's like the cult of medicine and the indoctrination is taking over, which I think that your mind has been poisoned by that.

Speaker 3 Well, and here's my thing. I mean, and that's an interesting term of poison, but the thing is, is that

Speaker 3 there is

Speaker 3 stability in the wind.

Speaker 3 This is why we have things that are written down. So in one note, you're holding on to, citing, and embracing scientific method and study publishes.

Speaker 3 But then when we talk about the institution that offers that, it's a poisoning of the mind.

Speaker 3 That's duplicitous, I believe. So my thing is, is this.

Speaker 3 Scientific method of forming a hypothesis, doing an experiment, gathering data, and then handing it off to your colleagues.

Speaker 2 I'm saying that that has all been done with urine therapy. Urine has been

Speaker 2 arguably one of the most single-studied substances, for sure, by far.

Speaker 3 It's not even close.

Speaker 2 It is. And I mean,

Speaker 2 I'm quoting Science Magazine from 1968. Hey, hold on.

Speaker 3 Science Magazine.

Speaker 2 Yes. And

Speaker 2 Oxford Medical Symposium.

Speaker 2 The symposium, like various, the New York Times medical section.

Speaker 2 Like, you just, what what i'm saying is and this is where i i feel like i and sean i'll let you kind of referee this because urine is today completely disregarded as a waste product i think that i deserve a chance to kind of show what the medical literature has said on this over the years and how it has been used for cancer and why there's anti-tumor cells in urine and how it's being used and then we can throw every dart at it but but i feel like we're discussing something that every most of the people watching think that this is false they've never even heard the information i don't think that you've heard the information that i've that I could share.

Speaker 2 Jonathan, with all due respect.

Speaker 2 What's the most compelling thing that you've heard about urine or the most scientific, compelling information about it?

Speaker 3 Well, one thing at a time. Okay, because to say I'm not, I am profoundly versed and clinically experienced in urine therapy.
Profoundly.

Speaker 3 You got to understand, I come from naturopathy, oriental medicine, that kind of fun stuff, alternative, whatever.

Speaker 2 Well, that's fun for me. I'm glad.
Right. Okay.
So I lots. Yeah.
And no disrespect. I want to know.
No problem. And when you say that, then I want to know.
So

Speaker 3 I haven't gotten into my experience yet. I'll tell you.

Speaker 3 Okay. So here's what we have to do.
Just like with other things, because you use certain terms, poisonous, cult, and da-da-da. So here's the deal.
It's the same thing like when it comes to religion.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Okay.
Thank goodness we have the scriptures. We have the Bible.
But even with that, we've got all kinds of interpretations. Yeah.
Okay. And no one agrees.

Speaker 2 So you sound like you have

Speaker 2 faith in God, the Bible.

Speaker 3 100%.

Speaker 3 Jesus Christ is my Savior.

Speaker 2 I'm I'm a Christian and a sinner okay I do my best proverbs five drink water from thine own world draw water from thine own cistern okay no I

Speaker 3 get it yeah but they also said there's some other things we can talk about what you should do with your brother's seed and stuff like that too okay well but is that discrediting like no they didn't know what we know today this is why we have an advanced in science and things and we still disagree okay hell we're still debating seed oil is good or bad okay and i'm flax seed oil is good black seed is fantastic so is flax seed so so is non-gmo cold press canola rapeseed oil okay it's the context of the individual which is funny because we're going to get into mda in a second but here i'm coming with this uh jonathan you have to understand this is a great debate and why i want to do it okay because

Speaker 3 you're a researcher journalist but i'm going to add sales and marketing guy i don't mind okay but so are you you are the one i'm learning to be oh i'm admitting i'm trying i'm i'm you think i'm i'm i'm here to sell myself to people to where they can come and have a balanced understanding and not have to, you know, inject their urine into their random rushes.

Speaker 2 And I'm saying, just listen to this and try it out. Even just putting it on topically, and then you don't have to pay me a cent.
But then you're saying, check this out.

Speaker 2 I'm really going to blow your mind.

Speaker 3 I just said, what if somebody injects themselves? Okay. And they have adverse rate.
You ready for this? Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Go ahead.

Speaker 3 Try it out. I'm not telling people not to drink their bee.
I'm not saying don't try it out at all because that's mad skin in the game. That's firsthand knowledge.

Speaker 3 That's the only thing that you can get in court.

Speaker 3 You guys ever noticed that attorneys never swear in?

Speaker 3 Because they're professional liars. They don't have to swear in.
Prosecuting attorneys never have to swear in.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 But that's why we've got court cases like Pagliero, who said you can't give testimony unless you have first-hand personal knowledge of it. So I want people to get first-hand personal knowledge of it.

Speaker 3 Listen to what people say and critically think it. What I'm saying is, is when we start attributing things to consuming urine because of their components, that's where the

Speaker 3 basis is lost for the individual doing that.

Speaker 3 I was lecturing on stem cells at the A4M conference to physicians from around the world in 2008. So me and Nick Delgado.

Speaker 2 He's a cool guy, right? You know, Nick.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Okay.
He and I don't agree about stuff.

Speaker 2 Vegan guy. Okay, right?

Speaker 3 But you know, look at him. We're about the same age.
He's strong. And you know what? I don't use urine on my face.
How am I doing?

Speaker 2 You look good, bro. 53.
Yeah. Okay, you look great.

Speaker 3 I'm old enough to be your dad, a thing.

Speaker 3 I'm old enough to be your dad. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Facts, bro.

Speaker 3 And we've both got the same skin. So here's my point.
The thing is, is this. I understand, know what I understand about stem cells.

Speaker 3 As a matter of fact, there's a big ruse and scam going on out there in the world now about using stem cells and going to Mexico and getting these. And then now they're going to be able to get them.

Speaker 3 I realize that they're not using stem cells. And now technically they're exosomes.
And anyways. So, dude, this is my world too.
Okay.

Speaker 2 I just got rid of my dandruff, by the way, by putting age urine.

Speaker 3 But here's my thing: why did you have that on your leg or dandruff in the first place if you drink your urine?

Speaker 2 Because I didn't come to see you and pay you money

Speaker 2 to solve my problems. That's exactly right.

Speaker 3 You do a lot of pro bono work.

Speaker 2 There's no criticism because I'll criticize.

Speaker 3 I love it.

Speaker 2 You can't get me.

Speaker 2 But what I'm saying is, like, why

Speaker 2 can we not give tools directly to the public?

Speaker 2 And that's why, you know, I'm sure you give information on like

Speaker 3 there's got to be a control, right?

Speaker 3 I'll give you an example there are controls in these studies and that's why not in the studies i'm talking about to the people right see there's no control to the person right so you like for instance okay

Speaker 3 and looking into your stuff i've seen the thing so you you have a private label dietary supplement line okay so those those supplements get sold you're in everybody else's i i haven't i own a nutraceutical company don't get me wrong okay

Speaker 3 I don't use any private label stuff, but the difference is...

Speaker 2 We do a lot of all our bestsellers are all custom. I can prove it.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Yeah, will you have it at all? I looked at them.

Speaker 3 It's made by Vital Labs. I've consulted for the industry.
I know who makes everything.

Speaker 2 No, but okay, Parapurify. Did you look at that?

Speaker 2 Toxibinder, Superfulvic Minerals.

Speaker 2 These are all.

Speaker 3 I want to get at you because that's a whole nother thing off the topic, whatever.

Speaker 2 Where else can you find the 10 to 1 extract, Mimosa Buddhica seed, Fulvic Humic? I can get it from India. No, what I'm saying is that...

Speaker 3 Woman, give me my things, probably get you a better deal.

Speaker 2 No, what I'm telling you is that we like it's it's fine like in terms of private label supplements are out there that's great but i'm saying that the supplements that we sell the most of are the custom formulations and i'm well they're not custom everybody has the same no no i'm saying that we we i i developed those like what we actually worked out the formulas myself and i know what you're talking about there there are some there are like yeah sure there's some like private label stuff but i'm saying the things that we sell the most of are all the custom formulas well here's what regardless if they're custom or not the the problem here is is this is that when you take supplements and you take things for things

Speaker 3 you now because they work these molecules do what they do so then now whatever

Speaker 3 mechanism of action that they do or work on whether it be the kidney the liver the lymph immune system you know whatever

Speaker 3 they now start to do things inside of the body and those things will always have a waste product. They'll have a consequence.

Speaker 3 Just like if you're making, you know, this beautiful lacquered thing, there was a lot of dust that came made from making this wood table Okay, so that byproduct is dealt with by the body and eliminated all we do is excrete stuff right boogers tears earwax mucus from the lungs pee sweat.

Speaker 3 I mean all we do is eject things

Speaker 3 and so the thing is is that when you start looking at what gets ejected into those things, okay People are even using earwax, by the way, okay, to do

Speaker 2 for healing, yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't know about it.

Speaker 3 Okay, well, see, well, somebody come on. Oh, you fight your earbuds.

Speaker 2 You go to Dr. Anthony.
I don't

Speaker 2 want to have anything. Wait, so they eat their earbox?

Speaker 3 Yeah, and use all kinds of. I don't want to, for the sake of time, just somebody have fun with that, go down that rabbit hole.

Speaker 3 I get it, okay? But you know what? The same thing here is what I'm trying to bring us back to is that there are components in these things that the body has

Speaker 3 that cannot

Speaker 3 in combination of how they're given in, say, like urine, get attributed to the the benefits of the separate component.

Speaker 2 Oh yeah, like urea, like the extraction of urea, correct extraction of uric.

Speaker 3 The stem cells, the immunotherthings, the enzymes, they're not there. You know, it reminds me, you know, you've got somebody, another urine guy.
I don't have to mention everybody throwing shade, but.

Speaker 3 Dr.

Speaker 2 Ed Group.

Speaker 3 Perfect. You said, I mean, and they love to say stuff like, you know, Ozempic has Heala Monster Venom in it.

Speaker 2 Okay. Well, are you pro-Ozempic?

Speaker 3 Well, of course. It's a fantastic medication.
Oh, I hate it. And I think Trezepatide's another fantastic medication.

Speaker 2 Sean's like, yeah, this is great. Yeah, it is.

Speaker 3 Because here's the difference. I'm a clinician.
You're not.

Speaker 2 Yeah, sure. Okay, so you think that it's fine to poison people because you're a clinician.

Speaker 3 But that's funny coming from somebody who tells people to drink urine, which contains toxins that they're trying to detox.

Speaker 2 Allegedly, babies drinking urine in the womb

Speaker 2 is nothing to do. And we'll come to that.
Well, let's talk about it because that's. Because here's the thing.

Speaker 3 I literally, and here's my sales thing. People can go to balanceprotocolgps.com.

Speaker 3 Okay, I've developed I'm gonna next week going to Asheville to work with a national company you guys have probably heard of Genova and I use urine as the basis for over a hundred biomarkers Shout out to today's sponsor, Quince.

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Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 So, one fun one, real quick, because I'm going to go into marketing milk and do that just with a

Speaker 3 no shame in the game because we got to do that.

Speaker 2 So, you know, my topic. And I didn't need to disrespect people.
And I actually take back my thing on the sales because I actually

Speaker 2 respect. Okay, perfect.

Speaker 3 So, you know, everybody says MTHFR? Yep. All right.
And they say, if you have the MTHFR gene, you cannot convert folic acid to

Speaker 3 a usable form.

Speaker 3 That's not true. MTHFR does not convert folic acid.
DHFR does. And I've said that before on the previous show.
So those who say that, they already have no idea what they're talking about.

Speaker 3 But if you really want to know what, you don't, you can look at a gene, a SNP, single nucleotide polaromorphism, I'm sure you know about these things, and you can say that it's there, but it doesn't tell you what it's doing.

Speaker 3 It is not a functional test. You might have it, but that doesn't, okay, I rented a car, you know, from a thing and I'm driving a Mustang.
I have, okay, great.

Speaker 3 I have no idea what the the horsepower is. I don't know if it's going to drive or not.
I drove it. Oh, it works.
It functionally works.

Speaker 3 The thing about it is, is we use a functional marker called methylmalonic acid. It is a functional marker for is B12 adequately functioning in the body.
That's in your urine.

Speaker 3 If you want to know if you have enough folate or is methyl folate or hydroxyl folate or folic acid working in your body specifically, we also in the urine get something called formaminoglutamic acid.

Speaker 3 If there's excessive fig glue or MMA, we know that you have a functional deficiency in those nutrients.

Speaker 3 That can justify supplementation in addition to food, not genes. So my point of that is there are thousands of biomarkers in urine that if a person

Speaker 3 without Q square M square, I'm going to call it recklessly, consumes,

Speaker 3 And I'm going to say, they're going to die. I hate the left, everything is, they're going to die.
You might be fine, but others, you can wreck your metabolism, and that's what I've seen.

Speaker 3 You see what I mean? So my point is, the urine

Speaker 3 is not sterile. It has a tremendous amount of colony forming units in it, because it's supposed to.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 And it has, you're absolutely correct, various hormones, neurotransmitters, byproducts.

Speaker 3 The list is massive, which is why I don't do it or use it or leverage it because it's so out of the place. It's like, you know, trying to make

Speaker 3 a sauce with every herb that's out there.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 If anybody's ever mixed, you know, sage with, you know, basil, you'll go, you'll understand the mistake.

Speaker 3 You can't have all these components in your urine to just be recklessly injected, swallowed, applied topically

Speaker 3 without any

Speaker 3 type of monitoring. You can't do that.

Speaker 2 You know babies drink hundreds of milliliters of urine in the womb every day.

Speaker 3 Yes, they do. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 2 And by

Speaker 2 the 100%.

Speaker 3 That's in science, the cult that I'm in.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, exactly. So then how come? I'll tell you.

Speaker 2 Well, tell me, why does the baby consume urinate every one to three hours, consume hundreds of milliliters, hundreds of milliliters of milliliters of its own urine every day?

Speaker 3 Yeah, over a thousand.

Speaker 2 Milliliters a day. Yes.
Yeah, there you go. Well,

Speaker 2 I mean, these are estimates, but amazing. Thank you.
They've measured it.

Speaker 2 So it's a liter. Yep.
Okay.

Speaker 2 So I'm with you. Yeah.
So volume doesn't impress me. Well, yeah, great.
Okay. Great.
And

Speaker 2 it's not a toxin-free environment. That's correct.
Yeah. It's coming through the placenta.

Speaker 2 Okay. And exactly.

Speaker 2 So why is it fine then? As soon as the baby eggs are burning.

Speaker 3 Because baby urine is not human urine. Babies are not in our environment taking a bunch of supplements, taking a bunch of herbs, taking MMS, taking methylene blue, taking all these things.
That's why.

Speaker 2 But that's not strong because it's extremely strong.

Speaker 2 They're not.

Speaker 3 Let's talk about the difference between red wine and white wine. No, it's no, because they're both from a grape.

Speaker 2 Let's talk about what's happening. They're both fermented.
Let's talk about what's harmful. Okay, so when the environmental working group tested for the toxins in the umbilical cord, tested for 400.

Speaker 2 Of those, 287 were found.

Speaker 2 Of those, over 180 were proven to cause cancer, birth defects, and brain deformations. It's coming through the umbilical cord.
It can't. While it is.

Speaker 3 No, it can't.

Speaker 2 No, it is. And while the baby is growing in the womb,

Speaker 2 and now it's urinating at these intervals, one to three hours drinking it. You can watch it in ultrasound, but we've already established those that don't believe it even happens.
They're just

Speaker 2 that babies don't drink urine in the womb.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, they do. And it goes in their lungs, too.

Speaker 2 Exactly, and it's irresponsible for forming their lungs. And then second trimesters, 90% of the embryonic fluid is, or what's in the sack, is urine.
That's correct.

Speaker 2 But think of the intervals of when you're doing it, you're urinating every one or three hours and then drinking hundreds or thousands of milliliters, then it's going to become basically all a mix of urine.

Speaker 2 And anyway, yeah, but here's the thing. But why can they do that, but we can't? I'm going to show you.
Even with all the

Speaker 3 answer. And

Speaker 3 this is where I'm hoping you'll adjust and correct the argument.

Speaker 2 I'll take it. Because if it's legit.

Speaker 3 Oh, I'm going to tell you.

Speaker 2 It's science. All right.
So

Speaker 3 the fluid, the fluid is going in there, is cycling in that fluid.

Speaker 2 okay?

Speaker 3 At the same time,

Speaker 3 that's why we have a belly button, right? But did Adam have a belly button?

Speaker 2 No. Okay, exactly.

Speaker 3 We agree.

Speaker 3 So my fun thing is, is that it's directly bypassing all of the organs of the baby and going directly to the

Speaker 3 vein and artery. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Into the baby. Listen to me.

Speaker 2 The fluid through the umbilical cord is going directly into the... It's doing all the work

Speaker 3 for the baby. But then

Speaker 3 when it urinates and then drinks it goes back through its organs but it's being removed so you're not so umbilical cord function versus amniotic fluid are not the same so when the ewg does a study and they're a big

Speaker 3 marketing click stuff anyways i like the word but it's irrelevant to the no because here's the problem there's chemicals in yes but did they but here's what they didn't do did they take samples from the fetus and the amniotic fluid of those umbilical cord samples?

Speaker 3 The answer is no.

Speaker 2 No, and

Speaker 2 they would find it in the urine because

Speaker 3 you can't presume or assume that.

Speaker 2 Go to urinemetabolome.ca, look at the 6,000 or you know, 5,600 small molecule metabolites and

Speaker 2 concentrates in urine. The body print

Speaker 2 is true, but there's

Speaker 2 in the body and the blood is in the urine. That's the point of it.

Speaker 3 But the baby is not, the baby's, what it's consuming is not the same as adults that are going to hear hear this show are consuming or not at all

Speaker 2 what I'm saying well they're they're getting 287 chemicals I don't care if there was 8,000 well still it's going into their bodies and then it now has to pass through all their organs and then their organs do the work and that's where people don't even know no their organs are not doing the work no they are not see that's where you're missing it in in in foundational stuff not having so background so they don't have any organs that are doing any work so when they drink it it doesn't go through like i know that's the thing.

Speaker 2 No, the mom is doing the work, that's why moms are just rocked when they're building babies. Before the baby exits the womb, you're saying that their

Speaker 2 uh their liver, their kidneys do nothing at that point.

Speaker 3 I didn't say that.

Speaker 2 Well, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 I'm saying the work of it, in other words, if they because here's the thing: if that was the case, it is no, it's not, but their kidneys are working, that's the point of them.

Speaker 3 This is why a mother who consumes alcohol doesn't kill the baby,

Speaker 3 which is because it didn't get all the alcohol that's in her system, yeah.

Speaker 2 Over time, it can bring damage.

Speaker 2 Filtering it down.

Speaker 3 So there's a disconnect here, Jonathan. What you're doing is, I understand you're trying to use babies and them drinking their own pee inside the womb as justification for adults to do it.

Speaker 3 I'm saying that is a fallacy because we are not babies.

Speaker 2 It's fine. But anyway, sorry, guys.
Yes.

Speaker 3 I wouldn't give a zipping to a baby.

Speaker 2 Because it's not. Because they're not an adult.
Okay, so my bad. You know it's bad.
Or a two-year-old. Because you you know it's bad.

Speaker 3 No, because they're not the same.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't have to do that.

Speaker 2 Thousands of lawsuits against Nova North. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 And what about the hundreds of thousands that die every year from board-certified licensed medical professionals?

Speaker 2 Yeah, and Zempic is part of that.

Speaker 2 The lawsuits are terrible on that and all the paralysis.

Speaker 3 There's context missing from those.

Speaker 3 This is great that you bring that up because that's my main thing that I'm saying is that context defines the understanding.

Speaker 3 There are people who have a horrible lifestyle, horrible environment, horrible mindset, horrible nutrition, the four factors of balance protocol, and they're morbidly obese.

Speaker 3 And they go and say, hey, this drug's amazing. I heard the jingle on TV.
And go ask your doctor if this, if Ozebic is right for you. They took it.
They dropped a ton of weight.

Speaker 3 All that fat, all that muscle loss, dumped in. Here's what's funny.
Here's the irony. Dumped into, now, guess what? Their urine.

Speaker 3 So now, should people who are losing massive amounts of weight consume their urine?

Speaker 2 Well, of course not.

Speaker 3 But see, that's...

Speaker 2 People lose weight on urine therapy. There's lots of, lots of information on that.

Speaker 3 Yeah, of course, especially the ones that fast and do it as part of the, you know, urine and fasting. Because

Speaker 3 you're not consuming enough stuff.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I went six days just drinking my urine with no food. Yeah, of course you'll lose weight.

Speaker 2 Not that I want you to lose weight.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 3 But see, that's the thing. See, the context matters.
See, so the urine in the womb is not what we're consuming.

Speaker 3 That's the point blank in the period, as they say.

Speaker 3 Adult urine or even adolescent,

Speaker 3 I don't know if you have your kids drink it or not. But the thing is, is that when you are, when you are,

Speaker 3 okay. So the thing is, is when you're an adult, let's talk about adults.
Let's watch the show. If you're an adult drinking urine, that is nothing compared to what a baby is doing inside of the womb.

Speaker 3 You cannot compare it.

Speaker 3 Amniotic fluid is not the urine that is in ours. They're not identical.
The baby doesn't have all the microbes in there, it doesn't have the hormones or anything.

Speaker 3 It's one of those kind of things where it's the same thing like when it comes to talking about certain supplements or medications that cross the blood-brain barrier.

Speaker 3 The blood-brain barrier is not necessarily a physical barrier, it is a chemical barrier. The mom provides a powerfully profound chemical barrier to protect the baby.

Speaker 3 And this is why I don't believe in evolution, I believe in creation, is that what an intelligence that the baby is not having to deal with everything that the mother does.

Speaker 3 Yes, you might find chemicals in the umbilical cord, but that doesn't mean that they were in the amniotic fluid being recirculated by the baby drinking and breathing them or running through the baby's organs, nor did they ever test baby organs to see if those chemicals were in there.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 that really matters.

Speaker 2 Yeah, awesome. And sorry, Sean, put in, do babies' organs work in the womb?

Speaker 3 Of course they work in the womb.

Speaker 2 Well, okay, this is what we're trying to establish in terms of whether the organ functions are the same. And then the other question being

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 and then us looking at but see here's the thing.

Speaker 3 Their immune system works. The baby's immune system is working also, various chemicals within the immune system, but yet it's not developed yet.
And they need to exit the womb.

Speaker 3 pick up beneficial microbes, nurse on mother to get things. Because here's the thing.
The baby isn't given anything in utero that it gets from nursing.

Speaker 3 So just that that's the part that I really hope that you'll concede in is that what the baby is organs are doing, which are functioning

Speaker 3 is secondary to the mother, both chemically and mechanically.

Speaker 2 Yes. And I accept, and that's the whole point of the environmental working group study, that the placenta is a filter, right?

Speaker 2 And so, and, and I would say that, like, and you and I have the same belief.

Speaker 3 I would even call it a filter because like people call the liver a filter the liver is not a filter kidneys are filters but the liver is biotransformation It is a biochemical thing.

Speaker 3 It's not filtering anything. Yeah, so the amyloid cord and the and and the placenta are not a filter I wouldn't align with that term

Speaker 2 yeah, okay, so but

Speaker 3 whatever's coming through the like the body and you think about arguably how God designed things that whatever toxins are coming to the mother the body her body is doing the best it can to just block that so it doesn't get to the baby yeah but now and that's the point of this including emotions yeah and all those chemicals if the mother is stressed out the baby is going to get those chemicals those do pass through just like they pass into the urine yeah which is one of the things and this is where i would go i would say to you that i recognize and acknowledge that uh baby urine is being uh reconsumed by the body at a liter a day And here's the thing.

Speaker 3 So that's another argument why moms don't need to be in stressful, toxic relationships and whatever, because those chemicals are going into the baby and it's circulating in the baby.

Speaker 2 So there some things go through some things do not but the babies drinking urine is no justification for adults in the world the environment we live in to drink urine yeah yeah and and obviously you could see my argument when we've then found that even though the the mother's body is trying to filter out the toxins, the reason for the study, which only tested 400 chemicals, which could have tested for tens of thousands, of those,

Speaker 2 they found about 75% at 287. Of those, over 180 are proven to cause cancer, birth defects, and brain damage.
Yeah, that's a side thing. That's a a good thing.

Speaker 2 Stay with me. And then now it's going into the body.
The baby is now,

Speaker 2 you look at the summary table in, you know, the baby's

Speaker 2 like their organs.

Speaker 2 Anyway, this is the one I've got, like heart, yes. So

Speaker 2 the baby's heart is

Speaker 2 active in the wound. The brain is active.
The lungs not fully because it's, you know, it's the amniotic fluid, the urine, et cetera, that's going in that liver partially, kidneys, yes.

Speaker 2 Digestive tract, yes. It's going in.
The immune system is developing.

Speaker 2 And then, so now, so the urine that they're drinking, well, the amniotic fluid, the fluid is coming into them, and then they're drinking it.

Speaker 2 Now it becomes what we call urine once it goes through this process because you could eat anything. It's called urine.
You could eat,

Speaker 2 you know, steak and eggs for breakfast, or you could eat something vegan or whatever. But at the end of the day, whatever's coming out of you, we say, well, that's urine.

Speaker 2 So regardless of what's going in now, once it goes through the whole system, then we call it urine.

Speaker 2 And so now the baby is consuming this substance that's passing through the same organs that it then on the day of its birth passes through. And now we say, disgusting, get rid of this substance.

Speaker 2 Don't touch it, live. I don't say it.

Speaker 3 And I'm with you. I don't say it's disgusting, but I know what it is.

Speaker 2 But it was safe to consume up until that point. And now for some reason, magically, the whole equation has changed.
Even though they had toxins, even though, imagine I could actually even create

Speaker 2 a more toxic-free environment because, unlike the mother, maybe she got exposed because she was cooking with Teflon. She was eating food sprayed with glyphosate.

Speaker 2 Now, now that other child then is is in a purer environment, and now even that, even though they're getting less exposures, then they now shouldn't.

Speaker 2 But what I'm saying is the reason why the baby thrives in the womb is because of its urine, because of the fact that those toxins, think about it.

Speaker 2 Like, think about how anti-venoms are created, where they're put into a large mammal, like injected into them, whether it's tarantula or a snake, and then the specific species that is, it goes into the blood, then over a period of time, they're not kill the animal, then they extract the blood, try to filter the blood.

Speaker 2 And, you know, urine is filtered blood, plasma ultrafiltrate. It is a filtration of the blood, and that's the point.
And we're only like our kidneys are filtering about 100

Speaker 2 liters of blood.

Speaker 2 Blood per day. And about 1% of that is then going out to the bladder and into urine.

Speaker 2 And then that is, it's passing through the process of which this other urine, the 180 liters that are getting filtered through the kidneys, then get reabsorbed back into the body.

Speaker 2 And then the part that goes into the bladder that goes out of the body, then we say that's unsafe, even though we see all the examples in the womb that show that it is safe.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Well, here's the thing.
Again,

Speaker 3 someone's got to stay sober because I know you're passionate about that and you're used to saying this a lot. Okay.
And I love it. But I'm going to say

Speaker 3 baby umbilical fluid urine

Speaker 3 is not adult drinking urine.

Speaker 2 It's not. But

Speaker 3 then it's a full stop.

Speaker 3 So then out of your entire narrative, you have to remove

Speaker 2 a 15-year-old. And an 80-year-old is not an 80-year-old.
That's right.

Speaker 2 That's exactly right.

Speaker 3 You're 100% correct.

Speaker 2 But the organ structure is the same.

Speaker 3 But that doesn't matter. The baby is not reality out of the womb that we're telling people to drink.

Speaker 3 We.

Speaker 3 You.

Speaker 2 It's just a blanket.

Speaker 3 So it's no justification. In other words, it's not.

Speaker 2 But it is. The organ structure.
But can you see why people, like, why do you think that, so somehow we become a bad person?

Speaker 3 Are you really going to hang your hat on the justification for drinking adult urine based upon a baby drinking its urine, Jonathan? Yes, absolutely. That is wild.

Speaker 2 But it's not. But I'm glad you said it.
But I'm not the only one. Like you're not.
Forbears.

Speaker 3 And you know what? There's people who say that about fecal matter, and they go and take their poop and they freaking stick it in another person's poop thinking they're getting a fecal transplant.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And obviously, there's clinical settings by which we have seen that

Speaker 2 proven. Maybe you think it's a fallacy.
That's fine.

Speaker 3 No, I think fecal transplants are done when you're done right. It's the same thing when it comes to urine.
Urine-derived stem cells are processed out of all the crap that's in there.

Speaker 3 That's the whole thing. Urine stem cells have been found to be fantastic to do things.
They're a source of it. Why? Because you have that nice lining of the mucosa, of the bladder and the urethra.

Speaker 3 All of our buds are there. There's stem cells lining in your lungs and it's in your sinuses.
It's everywhere. Okay.

Speaker 3 The thing about it is, is that drinking urine for its stem cells, you're not going to ever get those stem cells. They're going to be digested.
They're going to be denatured. Hell, stem cells are so.

Speaker 3 Why didn't they get digested by the babies how do you know they're not being digested and how do you and here's the thing wake forest it didn't study umbilical which

Speaker 3 you can mention the right things right so my here's my point there's a hundred million stem cells in and uh like 140 originally 100 there's more in mensis blood so why don't we just start pulling mensis blood why don't we consume mensis blood it after all let's and then we lower our voice like this and we talk about it well it is the life-giving nutrient force of the mother that's attached and there's that placenta

Speaker 3 And we can start, you know, super aggrandizing menstrual blood because it has, like, by a factor of a lot of people.

Speaker 2 There is the reason why

Speaker 2 it has a face mask. Exactly.

Speaker 3 And cultures do, too.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I have a lot of people.
But this shit looks amazing. Her name is Laura.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 She is a fantastic lady. Just two weeks ago, delivered a child at home, home birth.

Speaker 3 And next thing you know, she's posting on social media that she took some of her placenta and put it in the Vitamix and she's drinking it.

Speaker 3 Now, do I recommend her? Hell no. But she could do what she wants to do.
So, my point is, I don't care if someone drinks placenta, menstrual blood, urine, or fecal matter.

Speaker 3 There's some people that are turned on by that. There's an entire category of that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, which is obviously not what we're talking about.

Speaker 2 Correct.

Speaker 3 But see, I'm not going to be intellectually dishonest and compare the two because poop is not there. Now, the baby's not pooping yet because you know they don't have their first tilt.

Speaker 2 And there's a reason for that.

Speaker 3 Oh, of course. So I'm with you.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to find common ground. Come on, man.
And I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 3 So, but this is why this is going to be so fun. Yeah, it is.
But I need for people to understand that we will disagree on it, and that's okay.

Speaker 3 But my position is amniotic baby urine is not the same thing as adult urine. It's not.

Speaker 3 Okay. So that's no justification at all from in my mind's eye.
I think that's very fair and reasonable. So what I come back to is the components in urine.

Speaker 3 There are components in urine in the context as if they are pulled out and extracted okay that they can be profoundly useful in this cult of science that i belong to okay they absolutely can thank goodness for it thank goodness they found it who the hell grabbed a healing monster and so you admit that it's from the venom No, it's not from.

Speaker 3 We found it from there. Yeah, but it doesn't contain it.
Exactly. There's tons of stuff.
There's lots of drugs.

Speaker 3 It's modeled after it. So here's my thing.
This is why.

Speaker 2 lots of cancer coming from it well

Speaker 3 that's a whole nother debate my thing is is this there are things in nature okay

Speaker 3 aspirin was from a white willow bark who the hell found out that white willow bark had salicylic acid in it and then they go well you know what we need to make acetyl salicylic acid out of it okay

Speaker 3 It's it's what's so there's going to be lots of things in nature and in humans that we look and see that molecule does stuff. Okay.

Speaker 3 And then we're going to now derive it. Now, of course, that's where everybody would go.
That's where it gets nefarious because, you know, farm, big farm, I was going to take that and whatever. Touche.

Speaker 3 Yes, they do. Why? For the consistency and the safety of application.

Speaker 3 Ozimpic does not contain Gila monster venom. It contains a molecule.

Speaker 3 Correct. But see, that doesn't say

Speaker 3 they're saying venom.

Speaker 3 You know what?

Speaker 2 They know. Whether it's Ed Group or Brian Os, they know.
And they say that. But they don't say it.

Speaker 3 They do say something.

Speaker 2 No, they don't.

Speaker 3 I've watched their content, Jonathan. All due respect.
I'm throwing some shade on theirs.

Speaker 3 Correct me if I'm wrong. Find it.
Here's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 Helena Monster, Venom also has glucose in it.

Speaker 2 Holy shit.

Speaker 3 So then now, what should we do?

Speaker 2 Just because it's got something good in it

Speaker 2 doesn't give the issue with all the things that are bad. I love you.
Exactly right. That's what I'm saying.
No, okay, but now let's say. Or good.

Speaker 3 Just because it has good in it doesn't mean it was bad or good. It is what it is as the team.

Speaker 2 In the whole, yeah, but as we know it, babies are consuming the whole form of urine without an extraction.

Speaker 3 I got to get off the baby thing, man.

Speaker 2 Okay, let's move on from it. But here's the here.

Speaker 2 But obviously, I see your point. You see mine.
Yeah? That's it. Cool.
Okay, now, but the stem cells. Okay, so, all right, well, then let's do the extraction.
Let's do all that.

Speaker 2 So, how much, how much will it cost for 100 million stem cells?

Speaker 3 Way too much for it to be feasible for anybody to do it.

Speaker 2 And so, how much?

Speaker 3 Hell if I know.

Speaker 2 20 grand? Dope. Is that right? Call it 100 grand.

Speaker 2 okay well too much for it have anybody have access okay so you know 10 adults get their urine taken 24 hour urine sample uh 20 to 40 year old group 50 year old group wake forest university came from an nih grant published in 2022 and then they they collect the urine they find 140 stem cells and then what do they do with those cells they they culture them they let them in in an airtight flask bovine serum yes they use a culture medium right but yep though that culture that's how they actually replicate the stem cells.

Speaker 3 Because where do they get their nutrients from? One quick example, I think you'll appreciate this on stem cells because this is where I like to go woo-woo, okay?

Speaker 3 How is it that an egg from a chicken comes out and just sits there? And where does it get everything to make the chicken? All the organs, the feathers, the beak.

Speaker 3 Everything is all up in there, was in there. But when we take an egg and we put it into

Speaker 3 a bell know colorometer or we mass spec it doesn't have anything there there's a chicken where does it come from now I have my I have my theory but the thing is is we can all agree that if you took an egg and you ground it all up mass specced it and found everything that was in it and how much was in it and then you take that you take one that was brother and sister okay

Speaker 3 and then you take one and then you let it grow up and just before it does it, you let it sacrifice its life for science and you grind up that entire chick and its egg.

Speaker 3 They're not going to be the same ingredients, but yet they were in one localized thing.

Speaker 2 Sacrifice for science. I know.

Speaker 3 I believe in animal testing.

Speaker 2 How about that? Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 I understand. Particularly humans.

Speaker 3 But my point of that is: this: a stem cell versus a stem cell in a medium does different things.

Speaker 3 So that's what I'm trying to say. The wake-force study and those kind of things.
So, yes, urine does contain lots of stem cells. Yes.
But in order for them to be useful

Speaker 3 and the benefits from them, they must be pulled out, isolated, counted, purified, and cultured properly, and then given by a means that the body can use.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You can't just put them on your face.

Speaker 2 Arguably.

Speaker 2 Well, like with the baby in the womb, I'm not going back to that for the sake of going back to our other argument, but I'm saying that we didn't inject a culture medium into the womb to culture the stem cells.

Speaker 3 It was the culture. The body was the culture

Speaker 3 and its intelligence and its godly energy of creation, everything there.

Speaker 2 And, you know, and of the like 5,600 small molecule metabolites and, and, small,

Speaker 2 and compounds that have been identified in urine, is it possible that any of them would be a culture medium? No. And that would explain.
Well, you don't know them. Yeah, I do.
Because you can't.

Speaker 2 There's 5,600. And there's six ones that have been

Speaker 2 discovered what they are.

Speaker 3 In urine, I routinely, every patient I work with, look at 113 of them. And I've talked about two of them.
But here's what people say.

Speaker 3 So back to fig lu and MMA, those aren't nutrients okay they're byproducts of a pathway that's relying upon the nutrient those are in the urine but we don't put those in culture medium your urine has amino acids it's got e coli it's got all kinds of things in it you can't culture stuff in urine

Speaker 3 because of all the artifacts and everything else and for all the quantum people that are out there urine is loaded that's where we get rid of deuterium So for all my quant, you know, the quantum biohackers, if you're drinking your urine, you're slugging down all that deuterium, bulk water back out.

Speaker 3 It's not exclusion zone water, okay? It's not EZ.

Speaker 3 It is a waste part. I will agree with you.
It is ultrafiltrate, 100% correct term.

Speaker 3 Through the body's intelligence, no to get rid of it.

Speaker 3 Because it's now its whole energy, its molecular stuff, that is a... taking out the trash.
Is it dirty? No.

Speaker 3 Like when my

Speaker 3 changing babies and they peed on my face, they're like, oh, it's girls.

Speaker 2 It's toxic. No.

Speaker 3 So that part of it needs to go away.

Speaker 2 But so why would God mess up the design so much then if that's the part where the body's pumping out all its waste with the baby getting all those toxins through the umbilical cord and then it just keeps dumping out the waste through its urine and it cannot even escape

Speaker 2 humans.

Speaker 2 No, but you can't do that. Only human adults.

Speaker 2 No, but that's evading the point of the fact that that environment.

Speaker 2 It's real time. No, they will.
I'm saying that they dump their urine in.

Speaker 2 They're dumping their urine.

Speaker 3 You agreed that it was a little. Urine that was processed by the mother's organs and immune system.

Speaker 2 No, but then it goes, then whatever their body filters out, remember those toxins that went through the umbilical cord then go out in the urine because that's where it dumps its waste, according to you.

Speaker 2 That's

Speaker 2 from the mother. Now it drinks it.
No, it's no, you can't.

Speaker 3 It's not the same supply.

Speaker 2 No, you need to see this one.

Speaker 3 Okay, well, then check this out. It's true.
Here's

Speaker 3 what I'm saying. Is every

Speaker 3 water the same?

Speaker 2 You're talking about.

Speaker 3 Hold on, Jonathan. I got you.
No, water.

Speaker 2 It's not.

Speaker 3 Look, so Mountain Valley, Perrier, Saratoga, Evion, whatever, guess what they all do? We all drink it. We all pee it.
It goes into the system, goes out to the ocean, percolates. I live in Florida.

Speaker 3 We've got all kinds of natural water. People hate me because I recommend reverse osmosis systems.

Speaker 3 It wastes a gallon of water to make a water go. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Thank you. So the thing is, so then all that goes, and then guess what happens? Then it goes out to sea, and then the sun evaporates it, and we have this whole cycle.

Speaker 2 Oh, we're in the womb of the earth.

Speaker 3 So, what's the context?

Speaker 3 The context is: the water that we have in these bottles, okay, the urine of the planet, okay, is not the same as the urine that's going through the tubes going to the waste management plant.

Speaker 3 Even though it was peed in, every drop of water that we drink was at one time or not

Speaker 3 pissed and crapped in by some human on the planet.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 3 But how cool is this that the earth, its minerals, its microbes, its fungi, all those things

Speaker 3 still is able to deliver it this way. Some still have bad things in them.
So what I'm saying is the context of where it is is and how it's delivered is important.

Speaker 3 So we can't use

Speaker 3 in utero chemistry to justify grown adult doing stuff.

Speaker 2 You said something before that was false, which is that there's no enzymes and hormones in fetal urine. No, yeah, there is.
You said that before.

Speaker 3 No, no, no, it has all those in it. It's, of course, it does.

Speaker 2 Okay, there's tons of stuff. You either misunderstood or you said it and you didn't mean it.

Speaker 3 No, I

Speaker 3 don't.

Speaker 2 You might have misunderstood me perfectly, which is fine.

Speaker 2 And by the way, I never have gotcha kind of conversation. Oh, yeah, me neither.

Speaker 3 No, I don't need any of that. So my whole thing is, is this: it has

Speaker 2 it has that in it.

Speaker 3 But what I'm saying is, thank God it doesn't have all of mom's toxins hormones progesterone estrogen testosterone thyroid and everything in it because it goes through the not the same it's trying to filter it out but it goes through whatever that baby's

Speaker 2 neuroendricin system is not that of its mothers at all not even freaking close but i'm saying that once they're found in the umbilical cord it's like it's like there's a tube going into your you know belly button or your mouth or whatever and i find it in the tube and then i'm like oh you know no it's not getting into the baby It obviously is.

Speaker 2 It's in the tube that's going straight to the baby, which after the filtration system or whatever it was, it's trying to trap it. And it's going into the baby.
And the baby's.

Speaker 2 The baby's dumping its waste. And so there's a design flaw that God has done here, according to you, in the sense that...
God has no flaws. Well, exactly.

Speaker 2 And so then why did he also then give you an organ that you use to procreate? So you actually put your penis into your wife's vagina. Yes.
Both of which excrete.

Speaker 3 At least twice, because I have two daughters from my current one.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And I don't mean to be vulgar. My point is.

Speaker 3 No, I'm with you. We're all adults.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 these are organs that we use to eliminate this waste. And so somehow God decided, hey, you know what?

Speaker 2 I'm just going to make you procreate through the organ that you use to get rid of all your dirty tastes.

Speaker 3 Why is such a glorious place so close

Speaker 3 to the back end?

Speaker 3 I don't understand. And what a design flaw for that was, too, to have them right there.
I still don't understand it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, sure. But

Speaker 2 we know that

Speaker 2 with fecal microbial transplant, there's certain things that

Speaker 2 even

Speaker 2 people have reported case studies where they're having tremendous success with that and their clinical stuff.

Speaker 3 I'm waiting for the biohackers and longevity people to start having summits where they have a bunch of women all come and then they just all swab their stuff and then just everybody just put it in their nose so they can get all the beneficial bacteria because that's what it gets from the baby after all, right?

Speaker 3 Because the baby needs to come to the birth canal and that's where it gets all his microbes.

Speaker 3 Well, then if that's the case, then how about we just have Tupperware parties and biohacking conferences where the ladies do their wonderful thing of cultivating those wonderful microbes there that they would give to a baby if they gave it and give it to all of us so we can diversify the microbiome for the same reason, because it's preposterous and there's no control.

Speaker 3 You don't know what you're getting. The intelligence of the inside of a mother's womb is baffling.
It's unbelievable, right? So at the end of the day,

Speaker 3 we have to say that that's just not a justification right here. I want to bring us back to components

Speaker 3 that are in urine that are useful. Just like, okay.

Speaker 2 Case in point, right? Yeah. That's your urine? Yeah.
Okay, cool. Anyway, it's not like, it's not some weird gimmick.
It's just like... No, I'm with you.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and you could drink it for sure.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I know it's not going to gross you out, so it's not someone else.
No, it doesn't gross me out in the least. That's what it's gross thing.

Speaker 2 I just decided to pick up a prop to just make things more useful. No, I love it.

Speaker 3 Yeah, bring it right here.

Speaker 2 Bring it in camera. Look at me.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 I'll get close to my face.

Speaker 3 I don't care. It makes no difference to me.
I'm a physician. I've done stuff.

Speaker 3 So at the end of the day, I acknowledge that in here has stuff that, if pulled out, extracted, purified, and whatever, can be done.

Speaker 3 In fact, what I'm hoping for is that they take that type of science and go, maybe we can collect a person's own urine fresh, have a service to isolate it, just like we do

Speaker 3 semen, just like we do, you know, women's eggs and freeze them, and then maybe have their stem cells available to them so when science catches up and they can use those stem cells to do certain things.

Speaker 3 I think it'd be fabulous. So, to me, it's not gross.

Speaker 3 That's why I'm being so theatrical about it with you because the ick needs to go away, but the sensationalism and the lack of control and quantification and stuff that can be reckless.

Speaker 3 So, let me give you a story that I had. That's one of the ones that sticks out for me.
There's these little parasites that live in your eyes called demodex. Are you familiar with what those are?

Speaker 3 You can probably put them on the the sub.

Speaker 2 All right, I've seen them.

Speaker 3 I've seen them. I had a patient, I've actually had two patients that do it.
One, one was a female, one was a male,

Speaker 3 decades apart.

Speaker 3 But they wanted to try urine in the eyeballs.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because you would go, well, baby's eyes, and the urine in the eyeballs, okay, great.

Speaker 3 But what happened was, because they were like, well, it's anti-parasitic or it has this fungal stuff. And they put a few drops into theirs.

Speaker 3 And what it actually did was, is it actually made the demodex proliferate. They grew more so.

Speaker 3 I mean, so much so you can actually take a thing and go and you can squirt them out like zits, but look up Demodex. I don't hear people like that.
Just like it sounds. But so those live in there.

Speaker 3 Okay. So I've seen patients do that.

Speaker 3 I've had some of the ones that have also been really bad cases are as I had these same individuals, patients, and this is multiple ones, more than I can remember, less than 20, but a dozen or more.

Speaker 3 And so they were drinking, you know, electrocuted tap water, you know, Kangan machines, you know, the MLM stuff like that.

Speaker 3 And so then what was happening is, is they were drinking that water and then they were drinking drinking their urine from doing that. And they got wrecked.

Speaker 3 And what I mean by wrecked is, is we were monitoring all these biomarkers that I looked in their urine. We were trying to see what influence drinking this alkaline water had on people.
Now,

Speaker 3 they drank the water and drank their pee. Okay, so it's just like.
MMS versus nicotine versus the pee. So, I mean, it's hard to isolate for you.
It's hard to see what it was.

Speaker 3 But the worst of it was when they were drinking these electrocuted tap waters and then drinking the urine that came from it now

Speaker 3 I We could all speculate because there's so many things in P

Speaker 3 of what it could have been could have been the neurochemicals could it have been enzymes amino acids my I don't know what was the issue that you said you saw like what what was what was what went wrong with their health?

Speaker 3 Okay, so their mitochondrial metabolites

Speaker 3 more parasites in the eyes That was one so in other words that that was made worse I've seen countless patients, you know, do it on all kinds of skin on the body and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 No change could have been nocebo. Don't know because you got a you got some cool stories i don't know we weren't doing other therapies with it either okay so then

Speaker 3 when we look at the the urine metabolites it literally deranged their mitochondria i could literally see their

Speaker 3 citric isocitric isovalaria all the different ones that go all the way around susanic malic all the way up to oxaloxidate

Speaker 3 deranged that was the one thing number two their lipid peroxides went off the roof their melandylaldehyde mma bam

Speaker 3 so

Speaker 2 that's the

Speaker 2 and they felt bad, yeah. Yeah, but they did or did.

Speaker 2 Did no one had got cancer or a tumor or anything like that, but fatigue because urine's never been found, uh, like the urine-derived stem cells, for example, could never form teratomas since they were discovered in 2008.

Speaker 2 Anyway, so it's interesting.

Speaker 3 I know, I have, I see, I'll only speak to what I know to that or not, because teratomas are pretty badass.

Speaker 3 Those are, that's an amazing thing, which is why I take issue with this when people say this is for cancer or urine for cancer.

Speaker 3 There's no such thing thing as cancer, just like there's no such thing as a microphone. There are cancers.

Speaker 2 Have you ever seen when people like do some kind of detox where their markers look worse before they look better? Oh, of course. Yeah, so

Speaker 2 I'm just trying to say that they

Speaker 3 don't know. See, but what I'm saying is, is there was a direct there.
And that's the worst of it.

Speaker 3 But I've seen,

Speaker 3 I'm trying to give a real number so I'm not, so I have integrity because that's my most important thing.

Speaker 3 More than a thousand patients have drank urine and we've looked at their markers.

Speaker 3 And not, some of them, nothing, no change.

Speaker 3 Some, the markers have changed. And I still don't know because I'm measuring in urine, was it urine in and it came out and was a part of it or not.

Speaker 3 In the functional and integrative space, we use a test. I'm guarantee you've heard of the Dutch test.
It's a dried urine test. Why? Because it's loaded with hormones.

Speaker 3 Because we can look and see what it's in there.

Speaker 3 So if we do know that we use urine diagnostically to assess hormones, specifically neurosteroids, all the way from pregnenolone to progesterone to cortisone to cortisol, the awakening response, all that stuff, I've done tens of thousands of Dutch tests in my life.

Speaker 3 Those markers came from the urine that got peed into a glass, dipped the little card, let it dry, send it to the lab, and they can have all those chemicals in there. So my thing is, is this.

Speaker 3 If people are thinking that it's benign or just that it is not potentially harmful,

Speaker 3 I think that would be a reckless thing for them to do. But I still, even given that, drink up, slant you, I don't care to the point that it supersedes a person's right to choose to do it or not.

Speaker 3 I'm simply trying to keep people sober in the thought that it's not just benign, that it's always going to give benefit.

Speaker 3 And without measuring and monitoring and quantifying what it is in you before, during, and after, you're playing with things that can kick off. Okay.

Speaker 3 So at the end of the day, I, I, I just, it's, it's a balanced understanding of the two things. I don't find it ick.
I think it's fine. It's not a big deal.

Speaker 3 You know, it's, it's not, I'm not into the golden showers. I'm not a proponent, but I'm not, whatever.

Speaker 2 But at the end of the day,

Speaker 2 we can't be re we can't. Just to be clear, because I know that that's what everyone says in the comments.
You know,

Speaker 2 I guarantee they do. Just for the record, our Kelly jokes aren't funny anymore, right? Because it's not original anymore.
You guys got to come up with better ones. Come on.

Speaker 2 I want to see better insults in the comments. Come on, guys.
It's not creative enough.

Speaker 3 Do not take a picture and meme this, me holding his urine on my chin.

Speaker 2 Like saying that we want to take the piss out of him, or, you know, we, you know, R. Kelly should is innocent man then.
And

Speaker 2 free R. Kelly.

Speaker 2 Those are not funny anymore.

Speaker 3 And again, I know a lot of my colleagues will talk about the fact that it is just toxic waste.

Speaker 3 Okay, I can get it, but eh. But it's also, it's, it's, it's, it's not that black and white.
It ain't that black and white. And that's what I'm saying.
It is complicated, Nonathan. It is.

Speaker 3 And I don't want to make things complicated, but unfortunately, the body is complicated. And I don't, there's so much I don't know about the body and medicine and physiology.

Speaker 3 Still, it's what you learn after you know it all that really counts. And so for me, I'm telling you, my clinical experience

Speaker 3 does not give me any inkling to want to recommend it to anybody

Speaker 3 at all because I've seen bad, I've seen neutral, but I've seen nothing burger. Okay.
But nothing of like, wow, I would put that in my balance protocol toolbox at all.

Speaker 2 Yeah. No, and that is actually great because you really haven't, to me, presented anything that would show that this is as dangerous as what people are saying.

Speaker 3 No, I agree. I don't think it's as dangerous.
Well, see, I don't know who they are or as dangerous.

Speaker 2 Everyone that doesn't, you know, like it, I mean, it's just like, what?

Speaker 3 You know, like, driving around Vegas, you know, in a rental car, that's dangerous. See, I don't do any fear-mongering stuff.
See, that's not my currency. Everybody out there in the info space is

Speaker 3 stop eating fish before you see this. Don't do the whatever.
And you got microplastics and cutting boards and the linings of the cans and

Speaker 3 the black utensils, you know, and all this stuff. And none of them look at the science.

Speaker 3 What they do is they go on Reddit and they have their sales and marketing people find out what's trending and they just regurgitate it too.

Speaker 3 I mean, the black plastic utensil thing is one that cracks me up in science because everybody's like, oh, you're all these plastic, whatever.

Speaker 3 And none of them realized that that publisher came back and issued a correction and said we were wrong and the numbers were wrong.

Speaker 3 And so that now it's not that big deal. See, they don't do that.
They keep that content out there because they just love to fear monger people for stuff.

Speaker 3 I'm not fear mongering urine, but I'm sure as hell not saying it's a panacea.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 here's the one thing that I think that is a really important consideration after what has happened over the last few years and what that means, which you and I both agree on this part, that

Speaker 2 the genie's out of the bottle and there's a huge problem and so many people are suffering. And this is actually the reason why.
Suffering of what? What's the problem?

Speaker 2 Oh, I'm talking about what happened four years ago. Oh, yes, of course.
And then both that thing that people were catching and the thing that people then got bullied into taking.

Speaker 3 I don't think anybody caught it, by the way. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 Or, or, yeah, and that's

Speaker 2 commercial. Well, exactly.
Well, I just want to make sure that this doesn't get said.

Speaker 3 I'm with you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, keep going. I'm going to go to the bathroom.
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 And so then, and then, but this, um,

Speaker 2 this is the really interesting part to look at.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, it was actually RFK Jr.'s doctor that gave me a call. It was Dr.
Rashi Buttar, you know, and he's not with us anymore. Yeah, exactly.
The late Battar. And he

Speaker 2 explained to me about the urine, and I thought it was really crazy, obviously, and that he could be outlandish at times. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then there was this case where I was. trying to help a um a a girl that was injured in the the shiser climate clinical trial.

Speaker 2 I love that. It's good.

Speaker 2 And then,

Speaker 2 but sadly, I mean, it was really bad. Like, so she was in a wheelchair.
Her brain was swelling. She was feeding through a tube and

Speaker 2 her life was just ruined overnight. And

Speaker 2 then all the pain that she was in. And so I had then tried to get the best I knew to help her.
And I like then I was. And so because it was my idea, then I was up for about $40,000.

Speaker 2 And obviously I wanted to

Speaker 2 find something that would work. And when nothing was working, I just became a little bit more open-minded.
And by then by then,

Speaker 3 then oftentimes, you know, they talk about, you know, desperation is oftentimes a mother of invention, too. Yeah.
Right. When we do, we do the best that we can.

Speaker 3 I mean, I'm a good old boy from North Carolina, grew up in a single wide trailer out in the sticks of Robinson County. Okay.
So we did certain things, and I get it.

Speaker 3 So if somebody wants to pee on something, we got all kinds down there where I'm from, they hang bags of Red Devil lie by their front door, door. It swear that it keeps the evil spirits out.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Right. So my thing is, yes, sometimes people will do things out of desperation, want to try something, and then something really cool happens out of it.
Like a Eureka moment, if you will.

Speaker 3 So I don't doubt that you've had those multiple, many times that you've had, for sure.

Speaker 2 And yeah, and I appreciate you saying that. And so all I can tell you is what I have seen and what I've researched.

Speaker 2 And, you know, what I've done on myself and what my friends have done and what the other clinicians I've worked with have done.

Speaker 2 But my point being with this one is that it was like, so what I noticed was then I'd, and Sean, I think you'll find this interesting.

Speaker 2 I'd then go to these events where all these people that had these poisons in their body as a result of getting those things in their body. And they were so badly injured.

Speaker 2 I would, I would be in groups where

Speaker 2 people were

Speaker 2 offing themselves, taking, you know, I'm just going to try to say that word. Unaliving themselves.
Yes, that's the word. They're unaliving themselves because of the amount of pain that they're in.
And

Speaker 2 I would witness these because all these people that were tremendously sick would stick together.

Speaker 2 And then I would,

Speaker 2 and then they would go to these events that I would be speaking at. And I'd be on tours with people like Dr.
Peter McCullough. And we would be speaking to different.

Speaker 3 All those tours I don't get invited to.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, look at me. What do you think I'm going to get invited to after what I've done now?

Speaker 2 I mean, because I'm a contrarian.

Speaker 3 I mean, I refute all their stuff. And, you know, anyways.
But no, I'm with you.

Speaker 2 And then you have all these people.

Speaker 2 And then I I noticed, and obviously, like, you know, giving a Bible reference, it was like the woman, and actually, I've got an interesting case study like that, but that had the bleeding, menstrual bleeding, and then she's trying to touch the tip of Jesus' garment so she could be healed.

Speaker 2 And, but me seeing that too much, and that the, but there was no touching of the garment and they weren't healed.

Speaker 2 And it was the doctors that, like, you know, this famous doctor will be able to help it. Yeah, there's

Speaker 3 endless stories.

Speaker 2 And then here are the people that have lost their jobs

Speaker 2 and they can't work anymore. They have no income.
And so they can't afford anything.

Speaker 2 And now every solution that we're giving them, and now we're talking about billions of people that had this, like most of the world, the bigger part of the population of the world that has had this.

Speaker 2 Now, let's say my product, you know, I have some product that's the best thing in the world. I can't reach billions of people.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so what if God had it so that there were solutions? So anyway, I trialed this thought in my mind and then started then saying, okay, well, what if it worked?

Speaker 2 And then first time I drank my urine, I thought I I was going to jump off. I thought I felt like I was jumping off a cliff, but I researched it for several months before I did it.

Speaker 2 Anyway, these were the things then we started to see when we were, and these were people that were failing on the other protocols.

Speaker 2 And I won't mention the names of the doctors, but the most famous protocols for reversing these injuries, I never seen and has still to this day, I've never seen like.

Speaker 2 case studies where there've been complete reversals without, not saying necessarily without using urine therapy, but often I,

Speaker 2 they were not employing regenerative therapies.

Speaker 2 And if I'm right about the stem cell aspect, which they're certainly there and they're immediately there in fresh urine and and and then the absorption, all these things.

Speaker 2 We could debate on that, but it is tapping into regenerative therapy. But these were the things that we started to see.
Okay. So

Speaker 2 this was this woman.

Speaker 3 But see, nothing stem cell will apply there. Stem cells don't work topically on an injured site like that.

Speaker 2 It doesn't work like that.

Speaker 3 Well, and especially not in the presence of all the other stuff.

Speaker 2 But usually I would say that when people have an immediate reaction, like for example, the next one I'll show you is a woman that had heart palpitations every day since the intervention that was put into the body.

Speaker 2 The first day she drank her urine was the last day she had heart palpitations. That's got nothing to do with stem cells.
They don't work that quickly. What is that?

Speaker 3 Well, you get no stem cells by swallowing. Yeah, well,

Speaker 2 we could debate that, but

Speaker 2 you can't prove it, and I can't prove it. Okay.
You can't. Show me that anyway, but my point being that the babies are doing it that way.
And And so,

Speaker 2 and then there's the rectal delivery. And then there's putting it straight in the bloodstream.
And I showed you me putting it topically, like in the derma.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but you're, but they're not isolated stem cells. It's everything in the urine.

Speaker 2 And for me, I'm not making the biggest claim around, oh, urine stem cells, this is what it's all about. To me, it's about DHEA.
It's about

Speaker 2 the stem cells are there

Speaker 2 in the fresh form. They're in the aged form.
either with a culture medium.

Speaker 2 I'm working to try to get that proved so that we can show it can be done without a culture medium, which would then show that it you know has a digestion but even then you're gonna you're gonna have to you're gonna need to account for the microbes you're gonna have to remove those I did look up on ChatGPT can you get stem cells by swallowing urine?

Speaker 4 Yeah, says no stomach acid destroys cells not a chance.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 3 and can I prove it because I've done it have I because you know what the cornerstone of scientific method is is observation. Have I looked in the stomach and seen it?

Speaker 2 No, I haven't seen it. Yeah, exactly.
Scroll up and let's just see what proof they're using. Like, because

Speaker 2 yeah,

Speaker 2 there's nothing there that still says, says, like, here's how we know that that happens. It's a theory.
It's saying the stomach acid breaks it down. Well, there's certainly a lot of that.

Speaker 2 But then the other one would be rectal delivery, which is, which is aged urine, like three-week-old urine, you know, is strong. So I actually would take a 30-mil syringe and then inject that

Speaker 2 suppository into the rectum. Okay.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 then the argument around the stomach acid then is negated. And if I was right, the stem cells are in there.
You're able to get it. You're assuming that the stem cells did something.

Speaker 3 You definitely get.

Speaker 2 Well, there's all these that need to be proven. And so I'm not trying to prove that.

Speaker 3 Nowhere in any of stem cell technology theory, anybody, major corporations, billions, trends, or whatever, Watsons, whatever, have they ever cultured them

Speaker 3 or delivered them by giving people to let them swallow them through their stomach or putting them into fecal matter?

Speaker 2 Well, that's not going to happen. Well, I'm not putting into fecal matter.
You're just picking up your rectum. Well, you put it ain't clean.

Speaker 3 Did you saline it out? Did you do a fleet? Did you do anything? Do you you do any prep work before you stick a microphone?

Speaker 2 Well, the point is that's already in your body, and the point is to absorb it.

Speaker 2 But anyway, I'm saying, yes. I know, listen, I worked in Military Special Forces.

Speaker 3 They call it a ranger enema.

Speaker 3 There's a danger in here, and they'll stick water up their butt and turn it. It's crazy.
So listen,

Speaker 3 listen, the rectum absorbs things. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, exactly. So I'm with you on that.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 And so, and if we could prove the stem cells were there, what we're doing is we're basically giving something that only the richest of the rich could afford.

Speaker 2 And if it is regenerative and these are real case studies these are people i could call right now and just say it's not a case study donovan well it's an anecdotal case study yes that's exactly what i said but you didn't have any control and you're you're a treatment i didn't say it's a clinical trial i didn't say it's a double-blooded remember this is my definitely a case study my all minor case studies too well exactly my point is this is can you agree that this is a case study Yes.

Speaker 2 Yes, thank you.

Speaker 3 But I'm talking about when we're doing terms, I don't say minor case studies. So

Speaker 3 just to clear, words are clumsy tools. So, okay, your case study of taking her urine and someone else's urine.

Speaker 2 Hers. Okay, her urine.

Speaker 2 She put it, by the way, so just so people know this. So she put it in a female pad and we're obviously going to put that up on screen sheet.
Yeah. And then soaked that onto her face.

Speaker 2 This was the soul therapy that she was using. She went from 80 pounds to 140, back to, she went from 140 pounds down to 80 pounds, then went back to her weight.

Speaker 2 But you'll see what's going on inside her body. This was after she got a tetanus thing.

Speaker 2 And then she then got the caught the thing that went around a few years ago gotcha um and so that combination she believes is what created this this storm in her body and then the thing that she used to turn that around was her urine and um and so this is like this is an example and then these were other examples like this was the woman here that she was having the heart palpitations every day so she was bleeding 16 days a month yeah well that's which started three hours after her second shizer shot and um and then that

Speaker 2 um meant that you know she was at heart attack risk she was having these heart palpitations palpitations so severe, it felt like her heart was beating out of its chest.

Speaker 3 It's a great marketing narrative, Jonathan. I get it.

Speaker 2 Well, it's a real case study, and

Speaker 2 she had no hope, and she didn't have money. Here's the problem I have with

Speaker 2 her. She drank her urine and got better.
That's what happened.

Speaker 3 Nope. Okay, and I'm not saying none of that happened.
But in a case study, there's a lot more information in the chart and in the case that also happened.

Speaker 3 None of that is presented.

Speaker 2 But you're not even then going to pursue that. And then, by the way, she's saying, look, my hair is soft and it used to be brittle and the bottom of my feet aren't chapped anymore.
Yeah, great.

Speaker 2 And my skin is great.

Speaker 3 This is why you, as a sales and marketing filmmaker, are phenomenal because you are listening emotions. And I bet you if you put the audio on, you set it to amazingly, you know,

Speaker 3 involving music and the hugs and the shot and action and cut. I get it.
But mine is not as sexy as that.

Speaker 2 And you know that that doesn't discredit it. It just.

Speaker 3 I'm not trying to discredit it.

Speaker 3 Not trying to discredit it. What I'm trying to explain, though, is it puts a neuro-linguistic programming into a person to give more credence than what is being offered.
That's it.

Speaker 3 When we present case studies, we talk about case history, history of present illness. We go through soap notes.
We do this. What is this? What is it? There's so much more to it.

Speaker 3 You have no independent data of systems before or after to know what was even attributing it.

Speaker 3 We do have the lab lab reports before and after okay well then here's what's funny Here's what just came to me We're talking about babies and I'm going back to babies, but let's go to the we have kids I thought you wanted to get off that one I am off babies.

Speaker 3 We're going to adolescence. Okay,

Speaker 3 but isn't it funny that this baby's urine that they were drinking for nine months over and over and over now when they pee it on their groin it causes them to break out and causes a rash.

Speaker 3 So here we are using urine for rashes, but a baby's urine causes it a rash.

Speaker 2 So you're talking about a child peeing on their leg and it causing a rash. Yep.

Speaker 3 Inside, whether, and I've seen it in cloth, organic,

Speaker 3 it happens, right? So here's my point.

Speaker 3 I'm being a little facetious, but it just kind of occurred to me.

Speaker 3 I'm like, listen, if we're talking about urine doing something topically, like on the lady's case, isn't it interesting and ironic that a baby's own urine that it was swallowing and drinking and peeing and circulating now outside of the body can cause its skin to have eruptions that are painful?

Speaker 3 Why? Because of context. Guess what? Because it ain't the same damn urine.
It's because now it's drinking mom's breast milk or formula, and then now that urine is different.

Speaker 2 Well, what I would, well, I would say that one, you're using that as universal, right? Because I've never had that happen to my children.

Speaker 3 Oh, I've seen on countless babies and babies and babies.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, I, you know, I've never seen that.

Speaker 3 All mine were all breastfed, and I made my own formula. Matter of fact, I got canceled on TikTok for showing people how to make their own formula.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And so, like, and then why is it that, and I remember the question at the start, there are, like, I've seen all these things, which we were talking about and all these like really chronic cases.

Speaker 2 And I have seen like on occasions, very rare occasions, some small rashes. I've seen that, but I've also seen the same urine take it away.

Speaker 2 I've seen, and I, I've often, I often, you know, for me, I think it is the other things attached to it because, you know, we had our, you know, babies in pampas every night and they never had that and they were soaking in it all night, right?

Speaker 2 So there's just other things, right? Yeah, context.

Speaker 2 That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 2 My wife, but I'm just saying that it's not, it's not black and black and white.

Speaker 2 It's complicated. And here's Josephine, Walsh.
So, she was,

Speaker 3 yeah, but like, I knew we were going to bring cases. I'd have brought some cases.

Speaker 2 Oh, cool. Yeah.
It's like, look, so these were all the reactions after pins and needles, sensation in the stabbing in the head,

Speaker 2 low energy through the day.

Speaker 2 And again, like, she, she, she had tried like a lot of things and a lot of money invested. A lot of these people have lost their whole life savings.

Speaker 2 episodes of gasping for air chest pain okay now did she come to you for those things um she she just watched something that i produced and then now when did when did she perform did she stay home she did this from home yeah okay yeah she just buy herself from home watching see i'm always asking questions because environment also matters yeah she she

Speaker 3 because you know what

Speaker 3 Those are great stories.

Speaker 3 The problem is, is that people have the same stories about other things.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 And some of the common things are like, like, for instance, people go, well, why is it that I can go to Italy and I can eat all wherever you guys are watching this show, I would truly appreciate it if you follow or subscribe.

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