S34 EP1: Welcome to Squamish | Dirtbag Climber

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This is a CBC podcast.

This is the sound of a pixelated YouTube video from 2017.

In it, a young man in a red long-sleeved shirt and cowboy hat is climbing a rock face called Talking Holes.

The wind is blowing.

It's an overcast day.

Small cedar trees lean over the sheer rock face.

He's in Squamish, BC,

considered the climbing capital of Canada.

To be more specific, he's not just climbing.

He's free soloing, which means he has no ropes.

He is literally taking taking his life in his hands because if his hands give out, he'll fall 40 feet onto hard granite.

The climber's name is Jesse James.

The reason a lot of people climb is so that they can forget about things because when you're on the side of a cliff, you know, everything goes away.

You're just trying to not to die.

This is Jackie, a friend of Jesse's.

When you guys were climbing together, did he ever tell you anything about like where he came from, his background?

No, no, he didn't.

And the thing in climbing is that it's kind of a soft rule that you don't really ask.

Put it this way, people, a lot of people climb, at least back then, to get away from stuff.

And Jackie was pretty sure Jesse James was getting away from stuff.

I didn't think James was his real name.

I thought Jesse was his real name.

Everybody knew that the full name probably wasn't real.

But what was he hiding behind that name?

And why have a fake name at all?

Jackie didn't press that question too hard.

All Jackie cared about was that Jesse was someone who wanted to climb just as much as he did.

I remember once he would jump on a harder climb and he'd say, yeah, yeah, I'll jump on this.

If I break my legs, I'll break my legs.

Yeah, you got it.

Come on.

So he'd always, he'd be pushing,

pushing what he can do.

Jesse was a strict vegan.

He was tall and very thin.

He kind of almost like looked a bit anemic.

To Jackie, Jesse was the embodiment of a dirtbag climber.

Someone who lives to climb, sleeps anywhere, nomadic, working only enough to live day to day.

Every time I've seen him or I've talked to him, he's always camping, like I said, nomadic lifestyle.

So he was living in

what do you call it?

In Squamish.

He was living in his van or truck or whatever vehicle he had at the time.

He'd park his vehicle right here.

I'm standing on the road that leads up to the Cat Lake Recreation Site.

It's a beautiful stretch of forest dense with cedar, hemlock, Douglas fir trees just north of Squamish.

It's a spot where Jesse would often camp in his truck.

And he'd be sitting

here in his vehicle and yeah, he had a good outlook on any vehicle that was coming into the site.

My tour guide is former Cat Lake site manager Rob Carrico.

When I approached he'd hide his face with his hands

and it was fairly obvious that he was deliberately trying to hide from me.

You know I thought it was a bit suspicious for sure.

On the morning of June 14th 2017, Rob was there to unlock a gate for a student group.

And I was actually at an appointment

later on, so I was in a bit of a hurry

when I discovered the vehicle.

Vehicle is a generous description of what he found.

Yeah, I've got a picture of it somewhere.

Let's see, what time did I take this photo?

9.41 a.m.

That was the morning of the

when I discovered the vehicle.

They toasted the shit out of it.

There, in the photo, under towering trees, is the husk of a large SUV.

It's so charred that it's impossible to tell the color.

The fire was so intense that black burn marks extend onto the ground and encircle the truck.

So, anyway, I took a picture and that was it.

Left the scene.

And the truth is, the scene wasn't all that surprising to Rob.

Over the years, I've seen countless burned-out vehicles.

What do you mean?

You know, basically insurance scams or stolen vehicles torched, or,

you know, I don't know.

So, if you need a

vehicle torched, this is your spot.

One of them, yeah.

But a few hours later, Rob would learn that this wasn't like the other cars he'd found before.

This vehicle and his picture had something a lot more sinister hiding inside:

the body of Jesse James.

On June 14th, 2017, at around 9:30 in the morning, the C to Sky RCMP received a report of a burnt vehicle in a forest road in Squamish.

This is then Sergeant Frank Jang from the Integrated Homicide Investigation Team at a press conference explaining details from the case.

Now, when they examined the vehicle, they found human remains inside the vehicle.

Now, after speaking with the members of the Squamish community, we learned that

our victim went by the name of Jesse James.

Squamish is a small town and the climbing community is even smaller.

Everyone knew or knew of Jesse James.

This press conference only amplified that recognition.

Messages like, thank you Jesse for being my friend, that big personality is gone, and Jesse was an inspiration in the climbing community poured in.

People wondered whether this was some kind of freak accident, but then police revealed the truth.

The autopsy later confirmed that the victim died of a gunshot.

It is obviously a homicide, that we know.

Jesse James was murdered.

And his death caused a big storm on social media.

There's a killer on the loose and squam.

Is someone hunting him?

I don't know what kind of forensics the police have, but knowing him very well, it would be extremely likely he would fake his own death somehow, especially if he thought his cover was blown.

Did anyone actually know his real name?

Did anyone actually know his real name?

That was something the police wanted to know, too.

Who was Jesse James?

It was clear that this person lived a deliberately private life.

Well, he had a lot of secrets.

He's a puzzle.

He really is.

It would take three years to figure that one out.

And that would be just the beginning.

Because Jesse's death and the discovery of his true identity would trigger a landslide, causing all of his secrets to come tumbling down.

His story is, if you read it as fiction, you'd consider it just to be too far-fetched and unbelievable.

My name is Stephen Chua, and from CBC's Uncover, this is Dirtbag Climber: the story of the murder and many lives of Jesse James.

Are you telling me that he's deceased?

Yeah, so he was murdered.

Well, I'm surprised it took that long.

You know, very often, people like that do wind up dead.

It is truly a mystery.

It is truly a case of who done it.

I bet he provoked lots of people, and whoever killed him was, you know, first in line.

I only care about things that impact me.

Chapter 1:

Welcome to Squash.

What a gong show.

Wow, this is a gong show.

Yeah.

It's spring in Squamish, and the climbers are out in forests.

Oh my god.

So yeah, we're now we're at the smoke bluffs.

This is the most popular

spot to climb in Squamish, and as you can see, it's a total shit show.

My producer Chris Kelly and I are driving around trying to find a place to leave the car.

I'm going to have to park somewhere else.

Located halfway between Vancouver and the mega ski resort of Whistler, Squamish is quaint.

It's dotted with craft breweries, a disc golf course, a farmer's market, but the town wasn't always this way.

For decades, it was a rugged logging town, but people have always been trying to get to the top of mountains.

And if there is one place that says Squamish more than any other, it's the Stuamis Chief.

This is the Chief right here?

Yeah, right there.

Right off the highway as you drive into town is the chief.

Three giant granite peaks jutting out towards the sky.

It's what puts Squamish on the map and every climber or hiker who comes here wants to know what it feels like to stand on top.

So when you moved here though, were you a climber?

No.

Well that's a funny.

I think I'm like one of the only people I know that moved here not to climb or do any of the outdoor fun things here.

I moved here for work.

I moved here to work at the local newspaper, the Squamish Chief.

Like all reporters at a local paper, I'd cover cover it all.

From the school district to court cases, to municipal hall to the latest search and rescue mission.

But in my downtime, I found this small town, at least at first, pretty boring.

And I realized if I didn't pick up something like rock climbing, I'd be miserable.

Okay,

you're on belay.

Climbing, I'm on.

Back at the Smoke Bluffs, I'm halfway up a 20-foot wall.

How are you doing up there, Steven?

Grabbing a ball.

Over the years, I've gotten decent at this, but back in 2017, I was just learning the ropes.

Little did I know, it would help me land the biggest story of my life.

Tell me about

the day that you had to report out the murder.

I was in the newsroom, and all of a sudden, like...

This press release pops into our email inboxes and it says that the Integrated Homicide Investigation Team is working on a case.

There's been a murder, and it was definitely

maybe it was the point when I was just like, oh,

this small town is not quite as sleepy as I thought it would be.

After Jesse's death, the climbing community was not exactly rushing out to talk to the media.

They were pretty tight-lipped.

But I had an advantage over some of the other reporters in town.

I'd started to climb.

It's happening.

Okay.

Do you have any questions before we start?

Just go for it.

While I never met Jesse in the climbing scene, it is how I met Jackie.

Well, the thing is, it's like,

I think it's important to get the history out, whether it's good or bad, either way.

I mean, what comes, the chips fall where they may, right?

Like, I mean, you can't hide the past, but you shouldn't hide.

whatever after the past either, right?

Jackie is not his real name.

For the purposes of this podcast, he asked that we refer to him by a pseudonym because, as you'll find out, being associated with Jesse can have its repercussions.

What did you make of him?

Did you like him?

What did you get out of?

I liked him.

Yeah, I know, I liked him.

He would talk.

He would argue about anything.

He would argue about life, food, right?

He tried to pretend he was

some kind of philosopher king, philosopher climbing king or something, if you want.

Jesse would capture these big ideas on the blogs he operated.

One he called Whippers and Tears.

That's where he would write about his climbing experiences and his other one, The Killer's Strangelet, was filled with philosophical musings and poetry.

On the dusty desert plains a horseman rides alone and in the evening redness this horseman finds a home.

This is an actor reading one of Jesse's poems, a poem that speaks directly to his Philosopher King persona.

I've come upon you in the night, but have you any fare?

Step aside, the hermit says, my food and drink I share.

Before the dawn, the hermit dies in a heap of blood and bone, a crimson sunrise in the east as the horseman rides alone.

Jesse was very, very online.

He bought and sold websites, he was obsessed with chess, and would play virtual games with players around the world.

He actually, I heard him say to me, it's like he's a chess grandmaster or master or something.

He was also active on the Squamish rock climbing forums and Facebook groups, posting his takes on the sport.

And sometimes this included fighting for more representation of minorities in climbing.

Something that after his death would gain a lot of attention.

I think this was about seven or eight years ago.

The sponsorship community,

all their ambassadors or sponsored athletes were white, all white.

But he would say like, you know,

you know, there's not enough minorities that sponsored climbers or athletes, you know, or why are they sponsoring all these other people?

Jackie wasn't the only climbing friend of Jesse's who noticed this.

He's very focused on diversity, actually.

This is Joe Wong.

He'll call out the companies saying, oh, their hypocrisy, you know, they talk about diversity, but actually they don't have any diversity in their board or their sponsor athlete.

So he's an advocate for minority, actually.

Joe saw Jesse as a friendly guy to go climbing with, but remembers that he could also be pretty elusive.

I asked him what does he do for work.

He just brushed it off.

He said he doesn't have to work.

He has money already.

He's very minimal talking about his past.

He will say in the past,

I am from New York and I moved up here because I want to climb, you know.

And he used to be

not a professional, but semi-pro or high-level amateur tennis player.

And he also plays chess and he does investment.

And that's why he already has enough money, he doesn't have to work.

And he also told me he wrote a book too.

He sent me a link.

The name of that book?

Psychology of Seduction.

Seduce Women Using Evolutionary and Social Psychology.

The author, Jesse James.

4.2 stars.

$26.18 on Amazon.

At that time, you know, among the young people, a lot of young men climbing.

Of course, dating is a topic, you know.

Here's the book's description.

In the psychology of seduction, Jesse James merges the shady world of the pickup artist with modern science, unraveling the mystery of attraction.

Jesse James is a Canadian rock climber, disruptive technology pioneer, artificial intelligence developer, author, and adventurer.

Jesse holds a theoretical physics PhD from Stanford and served as an officer in the Israeli Defense Force.

I heard he'd brag about how he was an IDF Special Forces soldier or stuff like that, right?

Now you laugh at that though, but like, why do you laugh at that?

It's like you know he's not.

You know he's not.

So it's just like, I mean, if he was IDF Special Force Soldier, he'd be a lot bulkier than what he was.

AI developer, physicist, soldier, New Yorker, diversity warrior, was Jesse any of these things?

And did they have anything to do with his murder?

After his death, there was a rumor that a group of Israelis were staying at the campground on the night of the crime.

He'd also made a big announcement on social media about selling some AI tech to a Silicon Valley firm.

And that evening, he was allegedly supposed to buy a website.

Did any of this connect?

His climbing buddies couldn't say, but there is someone who is quite close to Jesse who might know more.

She was even with him on the night of his murder.

I was camped not far away from where he was.

His partner, Eva.

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You know what's funny?

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I knew he was smart, I knew he was rich, and that we'd get along like a house on fire.

There was so much about Jesse James that was mysterious.

Even his partner, Eva McLennan, had to accept that she didn't know everything about him.

Well, he had a lot of secrets, and I was evidently shielded from a lot.

But

I can't say what drives somebody to murder.

Yeah.

Eva declined to be interviewed for this podcast, so all we have are the statements she made to the press in 2021.

But Yvette Brand is a CBC journalist who spent time with her after Jesse's death.

Eva is utterly fascinating.

She met Jesse James at a climbing gym in Victoria.

She was very young and met this very charismatic, as she described it, intelligent man who fascinated her.

She ended up moving to Squamish and living out near Cat Lake

with Jesse.

She had changed her name.

She'd taken on a pseudonym, Abby Garbanzo.

She was clearly very in love with him and had great admiration for this older man.

You mentioned her alias, Abby Garbanzo.

Maybe you could tell me a little bit more about why she took one.

She said that that was something that Jesse had encouraged her to do.

He was very concerned about security for some reason.

She described how when they would go to bed at night, when they lived out at Cat Lake, they had a sort of a routine and they'd say goodnight and she would go sleep and he would sleep somewhere else, sometimes in his truck, sometimes somewhere else.

But she believed he did that because of security.

I kept saying to her, why do you think that he didn't sleep in the same place?

And she said, security, security.

I said, well, what do you mean security?

And she said, oh, he thought people were going to kill him.

You know, he knew he was in danger.

Where was she on the night of the murder?

She was sleeping.

She woke up a little bit late.

didn't understand why she hadn't heard from Jesse because that wasn't their routine.

So she wandered down the road.

Jesse's SUV wasn't where he usually slept.

And couldn't find him and became concerned.

It was parked or potentially moved about a kilometer from his usual spot.

And of course, the burned-out vehicle was found that day.

And she said she was kind of in

a dissonant state.

And then the police took her and told her, and she had to accept it.

It wasn't unusual in Squamish that Jesse and Eva slept out out in the woods and spent their days climbing, but there were questions about how Jesse was able to maintain even his meager lifestyle and never have to work.

Reports of his wealth are greatly underestimated.

He was a crypto billionaire.

Eva believed that he had made hundreds of millions from crypto, and people were after it.

She even talked about his wealth after he died to a reporter at a local CTV news station.

This is somebody who lived with extensive anonymity and the reason for that explained to me just the fact of his large wealth in cryptocurrency putting him at potential risk.

You know

I think when I first started looking into this it seemed to me like everybody that first hears about this guy someone was after his money because as any journalist knows follow the money right

but it's unclear how much information he ever shared with anybody about his keys or his crypto.

What have the RCMP said?

Well, that's where it gets muddy, right?

Because the police have never said much.

What's been done to investigate that crypto?

What's been done to look into everybody that knew him?

I know that people were telling them and feeding them suspects and saying, look into this person.

This person was in his life.

This person didn't like him.

How many of them they followed up on?

Kind of unclear.

In the absence of information from the police, rumors of Jesse's wealth circulated throughout town, including one that involved a local cafe.

He was a regular customer at a cafe,

and he got talking to the owner.

This is Rob Carrico again, the guy who found Jesse's burned-out truck.

He was going on about all his exploits and fabulous wealth and whatnot, but the cafe owner was sort of thinking, you know, he's got all this millions of dollars and he's living in a truck by the side of the road.

It doesn't seem right.

And I guess he gave him the sort of look that he wasn't believing his story.

The next day he came in with two shopping bags full of cash, wads of American, I think it was American, $100 bills, as far as I recall, and plunked them on the counter just to,

you know,

establish his veracity, you know, his credence.

Yeah, so

Rob has this kind of right.

We actually checked with a cafe owner, and he said that Jesse was often paying with $100

Canadian bills.

And one day he pulled out a huge wad of cash and threw it on the counter.

He described it this way: Open your hand like you are trying to grab two pop cans.

That's how big these rolls of money were.

Jesse told him that he kept at least $15,000 on him at all times.

But if Jesse was a crypto billionaire, Jackie, Jesse's climbing buddy, never saw it.

Then people said he had a lot of Bitcoin because if he did, he sure didn't show any of it.

He wasn't like giving away money to his friends.

You know, his girlfriends at the time weren't, you know, spending massive amounts of money, you know, or, you know, doing stuff.

And he never appeared rich or poor.

Like he was just a standard climber.

And while Jackie saw Jesse as a standard climber, that doesn't mean he didn't see a different side, a darker side.

It's like that character from Batman, the Two-Faced Guy, or Jerko and Hyde, right?

That's what it is.

If I disagree with beliefs you hold, I will ridicule the shit out of you.

This is an actor reading from some of Jesse's posts to climbing forums.

Some people are just plain stupid and would be better off bolting single-pitch sport.

In person, Jesse might have been a charming Philosopher King, but online, his true unfiltered self came out.

He has two personas on social media.

He has a good side where he show people the tips on climbing, and then he has another side that he jokes around and troll people and cause controversies, getting some people very mad.

And there was one group in particular that was often the target for his venom.

He was a dick towards experienced climbers

because I think he has a problem with authority.

Climbing companies don't sponsor minorities because they want to portray the white hard man image.

Rock climbers who accept sponsorships from disreputable companies like Red Bull embarrass themselves and the sport they represent.

He called sponsored climbers a lot of horrible names, including things like genetic mutants.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

People got really mad at him.

Like there were people threading him and just attacking him left, right, and center.

Jesse James, you've been on here spouting bullshit on several threads.

Jesse James equals internet troll.

If you keep trolls, they grow and become more annoying.

Everyone go easy on Jesse James.

Fellows probably been up all night fighting off women.

Jesus, man, it must be hard for you to journey through life life with such an enormous ego.

Jesse James, you continue to come across as a bit of a meth head.

I am looking forward to telling you this to your face someday.

You gotta remember, there's a certain subset of climbers.

Like most people are pretty chill, right?

But there's a subset of climbers which are very hard on what they perceive to be right and wrong.

And then there's a very small subset who get very angry and violent about it, right?

They'll go out, they'll destroy other people's climes, they'll, you know, they'll rip everything out, they'll, you know, they'll do all type of stuff, right?

But could one of them really get angry enough to kill?

My first thought is that somebody who didn't like him really got to him.

Like, they just, you know, went out there and killed him.

That's my first thought.

Your first thought?

That's interesting.

I mean, yeah, he was a shitposter, but you think someone would kill him over some stuff.

I think somebody would kill him over some stuff like that.

Well, you think?

Sorry.

I think.

Really?

Yeah, I think.

Because there are a lot of people in Squamish.

Well, I wouldn't say a lot of people.

There's quite a decent amount of

people who didn't like him, and some didn't like him very vehemently.

Just days before Jesse was murdered, someone left him a message on his truck.

Eva took to Facebook.

She wrote, Whoever inscribed Douche King on her vehicle forgot to add and queen.

Anonymous coronation is a funny business.

It certainly gave us a laugh.

Climbing royalty already.

I think that somebody who didn't like him, very likely a climber,

took a gun out and shot him.

What's your name, sister?

Zarilda Cog.

And your son?

Jesse Woodson James.

Jesse James!

In the final years of the original of Jesse James' life, he was backed into a corner.

After a life of robbing trains and moving from town to town, his gang had fallen apart and he was considering giving up crime for good.

At least, that's how the story goes in the 1939 movie, Jesse James.

There were only two groups he trusted: his family and two friends, Charlie and Robert Ford.

In fact, he asked the Ford brothers to move in with him and protect him as the law crept closer.

And then one day, with his back turned, he was shot dead.

A single shot.

Robert Ford betrayed him for the $10,000 reward.

Jesse.

Jesse.

After his death, Jesse James' legend grew, morphing through dime store novels, radio plays, and films.

At times, he was portrayed as a villain, at others, an old West Robin Hood.

And then, one day in the early 2000s, a guy with a newly found passion for rock climbing, who was also running from something, picked up the name and put it on.

Why he picked that name, we'll never know.

Maybe he saw himself as an outlaw, but the RCMP didn't care about the name Jesse James.

They were looking for the person behind it.

This case truly is a mystery and we're hoping that somebody out there have information now that.

This is Corporal Frank Jang from the Integrated Homicide Investigation Team speaking to reporters about their investigation.

If at this point you're thinking, this is a story about a rock climber who is murdered for his crypto fortune or because he rubbed the wrong climber the wrong way, well, you might be right, but you might also be totally wrong.

The victim's real name was never known until recently.

It took three years to finally,

finally, get that answer.

Now the victim's actual name remained unknown until recently, when it was confirmed as Davis Wolfgang Hawk.

Davis Wolfgang Hawk.

Mr.

Hawk was 38 years old at the time of his death.

We were able to confirm his identity through DNA.

He was reported missing from his family, by his family in the United States, and that's how we were able to confirm his identity.

But if the police had hopes that the case would bust open once they had a name, They couldn't have been farther from the truth.

In this case, it's actually opened up more questions.

We have a name, we have an age,

we have a photograph.

We've spoken with some people in the Squamish community that recognized him, that knew him, especially as an avid climber.

But

aside from that, there's a lot of question marks on this case.

Because once investigators identified Hawk, they discovered that Jesse James wasn't the first name he'd made up and put on.

There was Commander Bo Decker, Walter Cross, Johnny Durango, Dave Bridger.

He even made up the name Davis Wolfgang Hawk because he was actually born Andrew Britt Greenbaum.

And behind each name, a different bizarre story.

And behind those stories, there were lots of people who might very well have wanted him dead.

And then the more that I dug, the more I realized a lot of people might want this person to be hurt.

The mere fact that he could get into Canada and spend years living there, avoiding this multi-million dollar lawsuit.

It was sickening to learn of his past.

People were sending messages, you know, saying, oh, you know, this guy was evil.

This guy should be dead.

Plagiarist, Jesse James was murdered by Brazilian psychologists.

You haven't heard this?

Never heard of that.

The Brazilian thing, no, never.

Over the course of this series, I'm going to try to find out who was Jesse James.

He would say things like, you know, I think the CIA is listening into our phone call.

Or Davis Wolfgang Hawk.

There's a lot of gang activity in the Carolinas in Georgia.

Or Andrew Britt Greenbaum.

For a while, they were talking about him.

You know, maybe he would become like a world-famous chess champion.

And I am hoping we will get closer to figuring out who killed him.

You know, he was fundamentally a Nazi.

That's next time on Dirtbag Climber.

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Dirtbag Climber is a production of Lark Productions and Kelly and Kelly for CBC Podcasts.

The show is hosted by me, Stephen Chua.

It's written and produced by Kathleen Goldhar and Chris Kelly.

The showrunner is Kathleen Goldhar.

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Associate producer Hadil Abdel Nabi.

Sound design by Paul Tedeskini and Chris Kelly.

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Original music by Chris Kelly.

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The series was developed by Ainsley Vocal, Gene Parsons, and Kristen Boychuk.

Additional reporting by Yvette Brend.

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Executive producer Pat Kelly.

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for Lark Productions, Executive Producer, Aaron Haskett, VP Business Affairs, Tex Antonucci.

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