North-east river supremacy, David Moyes' giant duck & Keysey's nutmegs

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I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like.

Is Gas going on how to crack? Yes, you know. Oh, I say!

Brilliant!

But jeez! He's round the goalkeeper! He done it!

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North East bragging rights at their purest. Stop transcribing the words of football chants in the wrong order.
What's the shortest turnaround time for two teams to have their tails up in succession?

Harry Wilson and the human after-raw threshold. What football cliché has been uttered in Parliament for the very first time?

David Moyes giving a quirky question from short to medium length shrift, the subtle commentary intonation of a player shooting from distance, and Richard Keyes in a combative mood before Christmas.

Brought to your ears by Goalhanger Podcasts. This is Football Clichés.

Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés. I'm Adam Hurry.
This is the adjudication panel and joining me first of all is Charlie Acoucher. How you doing? Very well, thank you.

Alongside you is David Walker. How are things? Things are good.
I hope you're excited, Dave, for the Football Clichés Christmas quiz live in aid of shelter on the 28th of December 2025.

We've given Charlie Christmas off, by the way. It's not that we haven't invited him or anything.
Yeah,

there might be a cameo at some point. Yeah, I really hope so.
You could play, Charlie, couldn't you? Under

an alias, a pseudonym, yeah. Yeah, there's no small print here.
Football cliché's employees are allowed to take part. And if you do want to take part, it's £6 to enter.

Fully interactive, multiple-choice quiz. You can play on your phone, tablet, or laptop from the comfort or wherever you are.
Or you can just sit and watch the whole thing on YouTube.

Just go to football cliches.com/slash Xmas. £250 to the winner.
Other prizes as well. And we'll do a bit of Happy Hunting Grounds live as well.
All the profits will go to Shelter. So

we've got literally hundreds of people who are signed up now, Dave. Great.
Yeah. Bring it on.
Yeah, that is good. Right, adjudication panel time.

Charlie, three weeks ago, we decreed that Arsenal were in the driving seat in the title race

are they now well i mean how could you possibly classify it now yeah i don't know no i don't i think the driving seat is no is too advantageous a description for what they're in i think the question is whether what they're having now is a wobble or a mini slump or might even potentially turn into a slump like i think it's at the wobble stage now but certainly if they drop points i mean if they drop points of the weekend they'd almost they'd certainly be in slump territory and they'd be teetering on crisis or mini crisis would they they've lost one game.

They were seven to go from seven points clear to second in the space of four games. That's pretty crisis-y.

And with all the context of, you know, previous near-misses, three straight second-place finishes. This city team, they could put a run together.
Exactly. Yeah.

They could be out of sight by the new year at this rate. I was overhearing a FaceTime call that my girlfriend was doing with her niece and nephew the other day.
Six-year-old. Three-year-old.

Six-year-old's big into his football, Arsenal fan, and excitedly pronounced to my girlfriend, we're top of the league. And then his three-year-old sister went, for now.
Ooh,

wow. Very wise.

She's learned lessons from previous near misses. And as it stands, three-year-old, fair play.
What perspective. Incredible.

It's early days,

you know. Astonishing.
Maybe we should get her declaration on what the current state of it is. But yeah, maybe it's more about Man City than it is about Arsenal now.

But yeah, is the concept of Man City putting a run together, Charlie, the real kind of prevailing sentiment in the Premier League now?

Going under the radar a little bit, but everyone just seems to just chuck that in. Well, I think, yeah, ominous is the word, isn't it, with City? That's absolutely the kind of go-to.

They're looking a little ominous, you've got to say.

It's looking ominous. You know, when City starts putting that run together.
A Villa not looking ominous. Is there nothing ominous about Villa? Villa, can we talk about Villa for a second? All right.

This thing that I find so ridiculous. And I'm sorry, because Asta Villa fans will hate me for saying this.
Doesn't matter.

Maybe this is... Maybe I'm wrong.
This is the safest of spaces to say. Say it.
Exactly. Come back to me in May if I am wrong.

But what I find so funny is this kind of legal obligation, and I get it on programmes like Match the Day, when there's like a villain in the title race. Well, they have to be.

They have to be, don't they? They've just beaten up. It's like, I get that.
I totally get that. You can't be a buzzkill, but they're not going to win the league.
They're just not.

Like, I will stand here.

Are we actually saying they're going to finish above both City and Arsenal? They're doing brilliantly, but they're not going to win the league. But I know you have to say, well, yeah, of course.

But in the same way, people said this, and I know that people say, well, Leicester won the league. But, you know, people, teams are often third after like 14 or 15 games.

And I know they're only a few points behind, but it's just such a funny reflex. You have to say it.
You can't disrespect. There's no team.

I remember like Wigan, when Wigan started Brilliantly, and it was like, you know, there's no secret here. This is a very good team.
And it's like, yeah, but clearly they're going to tail off.

And I kind of feel the same way about Villa.

I mean, okay, well, I don't want to go too deep into the nuance of what it means to be in in a title race, Dave, but if Aston Villa continue to be a nuisance at the top of the table until March, April, does that not make them part of the title race, even if they're not actually going to win it?

Well, if they're still within a few points in April, then of then, of course, that that conversation changes massively.

Charlie's supercomputer has to recalibrate.

Yeah. My supercomputer is saying we're 16 games in.

They're not going to be in the title race, come what may. Charlie, consult your Premier League year's brain.
When did Villa go top of the league under John Gregory? 98, 99.

At what point in the season? They were top at Christmas. Well, there you go.
And then ended up finishing sixth, I think, or something like that. Okay.
It's still accident then.

Yeah, the omens are, and I'm sure at that point, they absolutely were, you know, there they were. And actually, they'd just beat an Arsenal then as well, shortly before Christmas.

So, you know, there are parallels. But no, that's fine.
Good. Good to start on this subject.
Elsewhere in the Premier League, the Tyne Weir slash weir Tyne derby took place at the weekend, Dave.

Do you think this has the most literal bragging rights in current circulation? There's a freshness to it which helps for everybody.

Just quickly, on the Tyne Weird Tyne point of view, has there been some sort of change in the sort of standards there? Because I saw a lot of weird times this weekend, and it was weird.

It doesn't feel right to me, but is that because Sunderland were at home

first?

Are we allowed to say that that's a bit ludicrous? Is it a bit. It feels it to me.

What's the word for it? Oversensitives feels like the wrong way of addressing this, but. Butterwoke nonsense.
You're allowed. Maybe.
Like, why is it required? But, you know,

I'm trying to think of equivalents, because obviously, you know, you've got the, it doesn't, well, I mean, I guess it would be the same, wouldn't it, for the Tyne Tease Darth Tees with Tyne?

Tease Tyne. It does sound weird.
I just, Tyne should be first. It's the dominant river.

In the few hours leading up. Did you try telling the Sunderland fans then?

Here we go. In the few hours leading up to kickoff, Dave, I was sort of tentatively searching around for any discourse about this, about whether someone had actually sort of stopped and gone, what?

Who's doing this? And I thought, is there a style guide situation?

So, you know, some outlets were going with firmly with time weird because that's how it's been called for years and forever and then sunderland themselves were calling it the weird time which is obviously absolutely fine but um i mean it doesn't roll off the tongue as much there are there are things that are set in the football vernacular yeah yeah weird but it is really bragging right see charlie this game and it helps that it hadn't been played for a few years yeah yeah yeah no definitely like it really does it does hit that box and the yeah the absence is important there as well paulmanologia writes in dave and says newcastle were described by louise Taylor in The Guardian as having suffered a reverse at Sunderland.

This oddly old-fashioned term intrigues me. Can it be used to describe any defeat? My gut says it probably can, but it's particularly suited to a deflating result that stalls a team's momentum.

You couldn't have a 5-0 reverse, too disastrous, or a 5-4 reverse, too thrilling. Have I got this right? It is a pretty kind of low-key term for a defeat, isn't it?

Yeah, it's a bit of a weird one, that reverse. So the reverse of what?

I'm just looking at it now because I'm wondering if it's just sort of elegant variation and, you know, you've got a loss and a defeat in and you're going for reverse i think it's actually well there's a losing just before okay so defeat would have been probably often

a sort of a choice for for defeat right at the top of pieces do you think it is quite old-fashioned i mean i hesitate to use this as a case study but i always used to see in minder 11's match reports for our league when they printed them out and sent them out so suffered a 2-0 reverse yeah but they always used to use um lost by the odd goal in five as well so yeah i mean that was incredibly old-fashioned but yeah reverse i still feel still lingering i don't i feel I think there's a poise to reverse, but as Pomonologia says, Charlie, it can't be something massive.

It can't be a thriller. It has to be a fairly mundane scoreline.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a kind of one of the more common scorelines.

Yeah, I think it's often just used as a synonym in Elegant variation for lost defeat. But

in its sort of purest sense, if you really wanted to use it well, I think it is, yeah, kind of setback when you're slightly, you thought maybe you're moving in the right direction and then you're not again, like you just can't get momentum, is the kind of reverse.

I didn't know there was much title

to it, but okay, I could be persuaded. How about this, though, Dave?

Peter Drury apparently said that the last time Sunderland finished ahead of Newcastle was 2016, when Sunderland finished last in the Premier League and Newcastle won the championship.

Someone wrote in saying this can't count, can it? Well, it's true. Well, it isn't.
It's 2017 for a star. Wow, no!

He's been misquoted.

Factually. I mean, well, it's true in that, like, yeah, in the sort of pyramid sense.
It's true. I mean, wow.
I never

contemplated this before. I mean, yeah, it is literally true, but you would never use it as a...
You can't use it as a benchmark. But then I'm supposed to

set the line in the sand for this, Charlie. You're going to have to use this early, aren't you? It is a weird one, that, yeah, as to who's...
It's an asterisk, isn't it?

Well, yeah, because it's kind of like from the moment you finish, you're no longer ahead of them.

You know, like, it depends on what you, do you know what I mean? Like, when does the Premier League table reset? Like,

the exact point at which they were ahead, they were were then so the Premier League AGM the Premier League AGM in mid-June when they had when they literally hand over the share certificate to the newly promoted clubs only then can you say you're a Premier League club so it's technically I think it's technically accurate yeah other Newcastle fans searching for the minor details in in defeat Dave Toon Argentina writes in and picked out a passage from the Guardian's report on this and it said the home fans delighted in chorusing if you hate the mags stand up there's this i i'm detecting this pattern at the moment of getting this chant the wrong way round when you write it out.

This is go west. This is the go west inspired chant.
Why would you not put the first bit first?

Stand up

if you hate the mags. Why would you write it the other way around?

Yeah. Unless it's...

Unless it's done. If you hate the mags, stand up.
If you hate the mags, stand up.

And I'm not saying it was like that.

I don't actually know for definite because it's never like that. You know, it's always the other way.

It can't be that. No, stand up is always to go west.
But absolutely ludicrous that we are seeing a pattern of behavior that puts the first refrain last. And it happened elsewhere this weekend.

Leicester fans were singing from the halfway line, Abdul.

What?

What?

I mean, Dave, you've got to make allowances for people maybe joining in the chant late, so they might well join in with that would-be last bit. But you would never...

Why are you writing it out like that?

Yeah. What's going on? Ask, what is going on? Tyne, weir, weir, tine.
Stand up or the wrong way around. Reversing all over the place.
Exactly.

It's also, is it fair to say that that's not a chant that really merits being referred to? Like, that's absolutely, that's one of the most standard.

Like, if that wasn't chanted, I think that was quite odd. Yeah.
But it's like saying, you know, the fans were delighted at the game.

They sang, you know, we're the best, the greatest team the world's ever seen.

By far.

Like, it's hardly.

Stand up if you hate the mags is hardly like, wow, God, it must have been an absolutely hostile atmosphere if they were singing that. Yeah.
It's just like totally standard fare.

Do you think that when the Leicester fans were singing from the halfway line Abdul, muscle memory kicked in and they all just stood up as they were chanting it?

Anyway, speaking of that Abdul for Tawu goal, this came from Daffy Reese Bowen and Jeremy Benson. Here's Jerry Taggart describing the goal for Leicester's in-house media.

It's a piece of magic!

I don't know what to say, Charlie.

You only see stuff like that on the TV.

That's a charmingly naive way of describing it, Charlie. I don't think you've ever heard anything like this.

The wonder there is off the scale. Yeah, that is really good on the TV.
Jerry Taggart played in the Premier League days. Yeah.
He's played on TV.

How long ago would that have been? You know that TVs were a kind of fantasy thing.

We're talking like doing it for your in-house TV channel, mate.

Wow. Yeah.
Yeah. Do they have a local TV channel in Leicester? Probably a streaming situation, isn't it? Yeah, maybe.

But yeah, I don't, I just, I mean, what's what does he mean, Dave?

Is this like, this is something so special that you only ever see in televised games, which, you know, by definition must be of a certain stature? Yeah. Yeah.
Sure, no, sure.

Surely he's just going for like the sort of thing you'd see in the movies or something and gets himself in a slight muddle.

You know, like that's the spirit of what he's, you know, this is this is sort of fantasy stuff you'd see in a film or a TV programme.

Could have gone with YouTube or TikTok as something so distant, so exotic that you only see it from clips from the other side of the world, maybe. But yeah.

Sort of thing you only normally see on the sweepers Twitter feed.

Meanwhile, this came from Joe Durample Hornby. This is from Sky's Commentary Free highlights of the same game.

As Ipswich's Jens Kausta is presented with a gift by Leicester keeper Jakob Stalarchik for what turned out to be a mere consolation. Listen to the crowd noise.

That is an absolutely textbook delivery of what are you doing? doing

Dave and it's it's it's clearly reserved for that exact situation of a goalkeeper trying to pass out for the bat, getting caught, and then essentially allowing an open goal. Yeah, that's nice.

And I like that it's not just a sort of sweary rant. Yeah.
You know, all of this is a bit more.

There's some actual considered criticism there rather than just fucking hell. Yeah, it's genuine disbelief and just like, oh, that frustration.

But it really is the go-to phrase, Charlie, for this situation. What are you doing?

What are you doing? What are you doing? And for that thing, like all football fans live permanently on the brink of losing their minds about playing out.

You know, it just needs to go wrong once, and you're like, all your frustration and nervous energy that's been building up for weeks just comes pouring out. Yeah.

Dave, if we could listen to this again, I did some forensic analysis of the final phrase that's uttered right at the end there.

He's saying on what planet? What planet? Yeah.

I really need to know the end of that sentence, but it starts off superbly. On what planet? What planet?

Are you playing out like that at a 3-0 up? On what planet is that an acceptable pass? Yeah, yeah, basically. That can only be in the context.

Yeah, more. Talk to reverse an alien coming down.
Like, on what planet would an alien not be confused by that?

Yeah, more commentary-free highlights, please, just for for these moments alone.

Over to the city ground now for Forest 3 Spurs-nil. Will Hardy writes in Charlie: He says, The co-comms of my streamers describe both Forest and Spurs as having their tails up within a minute or two.

Surely there needs to be a bigger gap between them, or the tails had to be up for a longer period. I quite like this.
How long does it take to get your tail up in football?

Well, this is a good question as well. Like, is it necessarily mutually exclusive? Can only one team ever have their tails up?

Could like a ding-dong-nil-nil.

You know, there's like really high-quality nil-nils where you can kind of tell both teams are sort of enjoying it you know it's a bit like end-to-end hell to skelter the quality's high you know the commentators are sort of saying you know some game this could both teams have their tails up honestly no i don't think so i don't one i don't think you would ever hear dave about two teams simultaneously having their tails up but i i also i i i feel like it's incumbent on us to to explore will hardy's question about how long it takes to get your tail up i mean that's it's just too short a period you can't you can't switch the tail uppage between two teams it's a sustained sustained period of attacking kind of.

Yeah, what defines, we should break down what defiance, you know, what are the things that would prompt to have their tails up?

I think it's a bit when

you're clearly winning like the 50-50s and that sort of thing, and you've just pressured a defender into like hoiking a clearance out, and the fans are right up for that because you can tell the opposition are a little bit rattled and you're moving the ball quickly.

You're having, you know, you might have just had a little sort of double, you know, like you're kind of peppering the goal a little bit.

You know, you haven't necessarily scored or whatever but you can just feel there's like a bit of a pressure building the fans are getting into it kind of thing there's a moment that i can remember when watford beat spurs at the start of the 2018-19 seasons when we won first remember that game was first three or four games in a row we were doing first four wasn't it yeah and we'd equalized in the game and troydini then ran over i think i think he basically shoulder barred davis and sanchez into the stands like he and and the crowd were roaring up and then we scored our second goal soon after.

I think that was a real tails-up moment. We got back into the game and we're keeping on going and everything that we do, the crowd is like bang into it.
Every challenge is being won. Interesting.

You both seem to have a really quite holistic approach to tails being up. I just thought it was kind of just streaming forward a couple of times in the space of a couple of minutes.

Like streaming forward on the attack, usually in a wide area and the crowd get out of their seats and go, let's do this. And you have a couple of attacks.
And that means your tails are up.

You're basically on, you're not in the ascendancy. It's not in the ascendancy, it's lower than that.
I think tails are up is on the way to being in the ascendancy. Yeah, I think it can be.

I mean, that's also a bit like the you know, building up a little bit of pressure, or where does it tells up rank with head of steam? It's not quite as much of that, is it?

I don't think you necessarily need to be winning the physical battle. I think it is just getting a foothold and an attacking sense could be tails up.

But I do accept that you know, things like that are going to get the crowd on your side, which is a crucial element to having your tails up.

Yeah, I think that's a good form of the tails up. Okay, when my two cats play with each other, they will both have their tails up.

And it's a real back and forth ding-dong affair.

Right,

just passing comment as you walk past. Well, both these cats have got their tails up, haven't they? Though I said it in a keysy voice, but it's fine.

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Oh, look at that!

That is wonderful!

Welcome back to Football Cliches. This is the adjudication panel.
Dreamland episode 13, meanwhile, is out now. It's all about iconic football quotes, and here is a review from Andy Townsend.

That is absolutely

dreamland there.

You were just describing a Bakayo-saka cross into the corridor of uncertainty there, Charlie.

Yeah, I suppose I don't, it doesn't quite meet the threshold for Dreamland, even if it's the sort of thing a striker does sort of, you know, live for. Yeah, is the striker in Dreamland there? Yeah.

Yes, I would, I would assume. The person trying to get on the end of it.
Yes. Yeah.

Though they don't actually score or get on the end of it. No, no.
They should be in Dreamland. It was a great cross.
But yeah, for $5.99 a month, you can sign up at dreamland.football clichés.com.

You'll get ad-free listing of all of our episodes, plus two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show. You can easily gift someone a subscription as well, by the way.

It would make an excellent Christmas present for the clichés listener in your life, no doubt. So sign up.
Over to Super Sunday now. Brentford won, Leeds won.

The question from me, actually, Dave, is how many consecutive games does Dominic Calvert Lewin have to score in to get into England's World Cup squad now? What's the point?

What final Premier League goal tally would get him into the squad? I don't know how many he's got. He's scored four in four, hasn't he? I think.
Yeah.

Best run of his career, by all accounts.

One of my uh my friends and uh listener, Matt, texted me yesterday saying, oh, this is a real uh Calvert Lewin wank fest, isn't it? After after the game.

But um, it's, I do think I mentioned this the other day on the pod. I can see a third striker getting into this squad.

I think it is up for grabs, and all they have to do, whether you're Solanke, Calvert Lewin, I don't know if Liam Debt gets fit, Welbeck,

if you just do enough, whether that be goal scoring or just your general form, like there's a, there is a small chance you could, you could nab the spot.

And I think the fact that Calvin Lewin's been to, he was at the Euros in 2021, he's been in there, he's been in and around it.

This is a bit generic pundit, but is it more about how many games Calvert Lewin plays? Yeah. I mean, hasn't that always been the question mark?

If he can, you know, stay fit, then he'll be hard to ignore. But I think like actual consecutive games, if he, I mean, depends on what point of the season as well.

Is it like toward to finish the season or just at any point? Well, I was trying to go for the goals rather than games, but now you've won me over. Yeah, he just needs.

Yeah, if he stays fit and gets to 15

games, he's going in the squad, I think. Fitch and 15.
To your point,

if he scores, if he extends this run and scores 10 games in a row, and it becomes like a big talking point, but then doesn't score again until the end of the season, that's no good.

I think he does need to be able to get the game. That's what I mean.
That's why I think it will be finished the season.

Or maybe he needs to score. Actually, the important thing for him would be to score every game until March March now to get into that next squad in March.

Actually, actually, we're being quite naive here. What he needs to do is score when Thomas Tuchel is physically present at the game, because only then do you get in squads.

That's the only way to get into Thomas Tuchel's plans is by playing well in front of him physically, because he doesn't watch games remotely or back.

But for Thomas Tuchel to attend a leads game,

unless it happened to be against a big team, he'd have to keep scoring enough for Thomas Tuchel to turn up at Ellen Road. That's true.

The big Dominic Calvert-Lewin News, of course, was his appearance in the studio after the game, Charlie, in his kit alongside Jamie Redknapp, Ben Mee, and Mark Chapman.

I mean, it felt like it just contributed to a non-canon weekend of football on Sky, Charlie. He kind of plays in kits in the studio, can you? Covering their groin because their shorts are so tight.

Yeah, and I can see why that might, for some, like Dave's friend, enter Wankfest territory. Because that's a bit cozy, isn't it? You know, like, oh, you're

just one of the lads, are you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he is.
But yeah, I can imagine, you know, as a Brentford fan, that might be a little irritating. I actually didn't see this.

So when you say the studio, do you mean like as in like the little one overlooking the little corner studio, yeah, at Brentford? Very cramped situation, but there he was in the side of the shot.

He just walked up there and just said, yeah. So he was in sliders, socks, very small, very, very tight shorts and a training top.

And there he was, just legs askew, hands placed in the footballer obligatory PFA approved position over his groin, having a chat about his aerial prowess.

His few battles with Ben Mee, by the way. He took a few battles with Ben Mee down the ears.
Jeremy Red now going, Did you kick him? Did you kick him? Yeah, yeah, I did.

How weird is it that that feels so strange? Because if it was pitch-side and he just walked up to the little plitz,

absolutely fine.

Sat inside in that little box in kit is just

different.

It's so someone standing at that pitch thing is so, it feels so temporary. We know it's ending.

There's something so much more permanent and sort of informal and intimate about him being like sat in there. It's like when someone takes their jacket off.
It's like, oh, you're standing there?

You're sticking around for a bit. Like, it's a real statement from Galvan Lewin that he's going to be there for a little while.
He's not just passing through on his way to a next interview.

But it's like going to work in flip-flops or something. You can't go into the office with that.
There's a level of footwear required for a formal situation. Yeah.

I mean, it didn't feel unwelcome either, so I didn't mind it. Let's stick with the Premier League mid-table.

Connor Edwards writes in and says, during the 79th minute of Fulham versus Burnley, the commentator on Skysport says he's human after all after Harry Wilson missed a chance now with the greatest of respects to him of course he's human he plays for Fulham he is human should be safe for only the most elite players in my opinion Messi and Harry Kane are of he's human after all types of players Harry Wilson is not this does beg the question where does he is human after all threshold start is salah he is human after all harlan certainly is and bappé was on that level when he was 19 is he still at 25 i'm not sure and bappé's definitely still uh he's human after all isn't he surely i think in certain games i think that you know if he he scored a hat-trick already in a game, which is perfectly possible, and then missed one, missed an easy chance, I think, yeah, you could definitely get give him the he is human after all treatment.

I think in Bappe's weird a slightly weird case here because his prolificness is not necessarily the main thing about him, really. Like it is with Haaland.
Yes.

But it's not just reserved for it's not just about prolificness, is it? It's about missing a clearing chance. Yeah.

When you're of an elite level. It can be, but it could also be like this is an extreme example.

But I can imagine like a Xavi and Iniesta maybe getting to that, you know, in a game where they've just put on an absolute clinic and then Javi misplaces an easy pass.

Yeah, he's human after all, you know, real collector's item there. Or Iniesta loses the ball, sort of, you know, in a kind of sloppy way.
But is Harry Wilson eligible for this, Dave? No.

No, definitely not. Okay, good.
No.

I mean, maybe if he tried to do a really fancy outside-of-the-boot finish again and completely got it wrong and it went off at an angle the opposite way he was intending to.

But even then, it's a bit weird. Salah's an interesting case in this as well, because Salah is of the elite-level players, and with a player for his goal-scoring record, looks very human.

He's showing some signs of slowing down, which we were promised he never would, actually.

So, I mean, I've said Haaland can miss some really easy chances, like they all do. But I think, like, to answer the question, like, what is the lower who in the Premier League?

So, Salah, yes, Haaland, yes.

No, but I don't think you'd ever say it about Salah, because even when he's at his best, missing him, him having bad games and missing chances is he's the sort of player that just pops up at the death with a goal rather than just buying them in.

You're right, but his numbers are so absurd that leaving this season aside, that you know, last season in a game where he got two, he'd got two assists, and then he does something crap, which, as you say, is perfectly possible.

I think

you're going to

get it. You have to be in really good form and maybe even score twice in that game and then do something terrible, like just spoon one over the bar, then it becomes he is human after all.

So in many respects... You still need to be a certain level to be able to do that.
Absolutely. It needs to be both things.

So yeah, Harry Wilson has the current form, but he doesn't have the pedigree to be reminded of his humanity. Next up, this came from Jack Evans.
A delightful variation on if his name was.

This was a talk sport caller calling in about World Cup ticket prices. Good morning, lads.
How are you doing? You okay?

Good. Go on, James.
A couple of points, really. I mean, you're absolutely right.
The ticket prices are shocking, of course. But let's not look at it short-sighted either.
This is the long-term effect

on families, on these people who are going. You're absolutely right.
People are going to go. They are going to take, use their life savings, take out loans, use credit cards.

This is going to affect them long term. This isn't just a short-sighted thing.
People will go.

And let's, and forgive me, I don't know the socio-economic status of every other country, but Jose Blogzo, you know, Portuguese for Joe Blogs from the Brazilian favelas, for example, how are they going to impact this?

Yeah, yeah, we get it. Great clarification.

Joe Jo Blogger,

Didn't go for Blogginho. Didn't do it.
Which I'm very disappointed by, I have to say.

Yeah. Just such a useful device.

Joao blog. Come on.

Joe Blog.

Love it. But yeah.
Right. Steve Aikhurst.
Here's Keir Starmer biting back at the Tories at PMQs last week. In total, Mr.
Speaker, 21 ex-Tory MPs have now left for reform.

The real question is, who's next?

We can all see the shadow justice secretary twitching

after his come and get me plea from the member of Clacton. Mr.
Speaker, we need no lessons from them.

Love come and get me plea, Charlie. They always have done.
I've blindly assumed that it is a football invention. I've got no evidence to the contrary.
But it is weird that

that construction of a phrase could ever have caught on in a wider context. Come and get me, please.
It's like such a weird kind of hyphenated construction to me. Yeah, but it does stand to reason.

I mean, I guess obviously because nothing has like a transfer window merry-go-round quite like football. Like it's such an intrinsic part of it.
But other industries have it to an extent.

So you could see it like in this instance, you know, I mean, it's rare, you know, these kind of defections normally are rare, but you can see why it might slip into different industries at different moments.

It hasn't slipped into politics very often dave because that is the first ever use of come and get me plea in the house of commons ever wow you've checked handsard thank you hansard yeah i i did a wild card search just when we're doubting kir's footballing credentials and we think maybe he hasn't quite got it there we go i haven't searched

warning in handsard yet but hopefully he drops that in this week um get sakir back on for like a listener's mhd he can join us as the fourth person some some some late credentials from the big man great um speaking of speaking of of Q ⁇ As, David Moyes did a Reddit AMA for Everton's YouTube channel the other day.

Here's a little intro to see what kind of vibe he was going in with.

Hi, it's David Moyes. Ask me anything on Reddit.

So clearly well into this, David Moyes.

All the classic questions to start with, Charlie. Which players will make the best managers in your view? Which form of player would you love to have in your squad now?

Who was the one signing that got away? And who would win in a fight? A Jordan Pickford-sized duck or a hundred duck-sized Jordan Pickford?

Very, I mean, classic four-fifth question in these sorts of things. Did Moy was Moyes up for it? Was he up for this?

I can't quite understand that question because I don't really know what the Pickford-sized duck looks like and I don't know what it really means. So if you don't mind, I'd have to give that a blank.

Sorry.

Come on, Moyce. He sounds genuinely irritated by that.
Well, you know what a duck looks like, don't you? It's just the duck's biggest Jordan Pickford, mate. Sure, like, Charlie,

questions like this are absolutely standard for these situations.

You know you're going to get something left field that makes David Moyes go out of his comfort zone and show a bit of character and personality. Just take it on.
Just take it on.

You'll look less weird. Someone should have a word in his head and just say, just give it your best shot.
Yeah, I mean, you can imagine how not up for this he was.

I think you've got to save that question for later. Like, warm him up because he's already probably thinking, like, why am I doing this? Like, this feels like a waste of time.

Like, don't give him those sort of questions early on. Is the duck's head on Pickford's body?

Pickford's head on the duck?

I think it's a shame they didn't make him type it out, like, the proper AMAs where you see him answering all those ones in the thread, like we did.

Because that would have been that's sort of

really bogged down. More organic, but there was some gold elsewhere.
One of the questions was: Are you ever a Dave, or are you just always a David? Yeah, I could do Dave. Some people call me Dave.

I'm mostly a David, but yeah, I could do a Dave. Dave Moyes.
That's a good question. That's a great question.
Or a Davey. I bet he's been Davey.
Davey Moyes. We Davey Moyes.
We Dave Moyes.

We Davey Moyes.

I wish we could have asked him that.

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Oh, look at that!

That is wonderful!

Over to the darts. Now, the PDC tweeted, pick that out.
Sensational from Niels Zonneveld. The Dutchman produces a spectacular 158 checkout to move a leg away from victory.

UAC Puncher asks, Dave, pick that out in reference to a darts checkout? Surely not having this.

Many people replied on the Reddit saying, This is exactly where pick that one out works. It's great for darts.
Perfect, yeah. If only they were.

If it was like they were playing down at the pub with just one set of darts and the other guy had to pick out the darts for so he could have his next throw would be even better.

But yeah, I mean, someone's got to pick it out the board, haven't they? But I mean, this works on a literally Dave level, Charlie, and also just in the figurative sense.

It's really good for darts.

Like, if you think of the context that it's used in football, where a great shot goes into a fairly unreachable part of the goal, which I think is fair enough to assume, this is great for darts.

You're putting the dart into a very small area. Pick that one out.
Go on. Yeah, no, damn, it's right in the spirit of it.
And then they're like, this is a hard thing. And I'm saying, like, fuck off.

And I've just gone and done it. Like, it's great.
Yeah. Definitely.

We found its natural habitat now. Right, Rick Saunders writes in next Dave and says, during the match of the day highlights of West Ham versus Villa, is it just me?

Or does it sound like commentator John Roders shouting upstairs to tell this Villa player his tea's ready? McKinnon was the target for that pass. Couldn't be found.
Marlon, his first involvement.

Marlon!

Punch shot!

Really good.

So subtle. Marlon! Marlon! Marlon!

Marlon! Three times, Marlon!

Going cold, Marlon!

Donielle Marlon! Donielle Christopher Marlon. Get down here.
This is here now. It was Keesy making tea.

Steak aupois.

Oh, lovely stuff from John Roderick. I know you're listening, John.
I hope you enjoyed that one. Right, next, one of the greatest opening lines to a cliché's email I've had for a very long time.

Hi, Adam. I have it on good authority that a high-profile Sky Sports News reporter, it's Gary Cotterell, doesn't know what a rondo is.
A friend of mine was working with him recently and told me this.

Wow. And he's still working there.
How did it come up?

My initial reaction was to assume that he just called it something else, but no, apparently, he genuinely didn't realize that players pass the ball to each other in a circle while someone else tries to win it back as a warm-up exercise, nor did he understand why they did it.

So he doesn't understand the whole concept of a rondo, Charlie, let alone the name. He must have been in and around a rondo before.
That doesn't check out.

That guy has stood in front of a lot of training pitches. Or I suppose he's always looking at the camera.
He's always behind him.

He's never seen one.

But what about when he's trying to address one one of the players, like with Ezza?

Like, would a Rondo not been in his peripheral vision at that point? Jesus, yeah. I mean, I don't know what more to do with that.
It was just a really, really nice entry to that.

So, yeah, we should give him right of reply. I'll get in touch with him.
Do you know what a rondo is? Right. Over to Scottish football now.

Sam Hendry sent me this quote from Steve Clark, the Scotland manager, talking about the World Cup draw. The biggest thing is the last time we went to a World Cup draw, we were in one of the pathways.

So you were there, but you're not really there. This time, when you get drawn out the hat and the salt tire is up there and you see the name Scotland, yeah, it's pretty special.

Obviously you've got to wait and see who's available and when they're available.

If we could play one team at least from every one of those continents in a friendly match, that would be ideal preparations for me. So we'll try and do that.
Wow.

Just casually, Charlie, suggesting that they're just going to play a team from every continent, not even specifying who's, you know, might even be similar. This is incredible to me.

Weren't we talking about this only last week? That this

was reality. This was a bit passe.

It's back.

Wow. So they've got Brazil, Morocco, and Haiti.
Yeah, so that's what? You've got a bit of CONBOL, CAF, and CONCACAF. CONCACAF.
Such play anyone from CONCACAF, are you, Steve Clark? Anybody. Wow.

Jamaica? Dominican Republic? Tunisia. And who are Brazil? Tunisia.
Has anyone ever had to play a team to warm up for Brazil? Well, Chile aren't at the World Cup. Have a go with them.

Play Argentinas? Yeah, yeah. Anyone who plays in yellow? Such a singular nation, yeah.
Yeah. Well, Suriname is technically in South America.
That's the best we can do for you, Steve, at this point.

Yep, yep, we'll take it. That's fine.
Yeah, yeah, could could be.

And sorry, my indignation at Tunisia, I thought we were still on Haiti. Oh, no, don't worry.

Tune is you would be spot on. Yeah, my geography is okay, don't worry.
Next up, Zheta Algonkin refers to the BBC match report of Fulkirk Neil Harts 2.

Leaders' hearts beat Fulkirk to broaden gap at summit. A goal either side of halftime was enough for Harts to see a Fulkirk and open up a six-point gap over a Celtic.

A goal either side of half-time, Charlie. One after two minutes, the other after 77.
We never tire of this. We're back to this.
75 minutes between the goals. That is really odd, yeah.

Just say a goal in either half if you really want to make that point. Either side of half-time is a precious thing.

There's a psychological aspect to either side of half-time.

It means they went in destroy at halftime because they conceded when they shouldn't have done, and they got a sucker punch at the start of the second half. Led into the second half.
This is crucial.

Neither of those things have happened here. No.
Disappointed. Finally, this came from Gilbert Dowding.
Here's commentator Ian Crocker's reaction to hearts going 2-0 up at Celtic Park last week.

The goal from a corner. Harry Milner in.

Blyme.

Hearts have risen.

We had a South American Blymey a few weeks ago, but now Ian Crocker's bringing out the Blymeys in the Scottish Premiership. Extraordinary.
Doing his sort of best Gary Weaver.

Yeah, that was a little Gary Weaver, wasn't it? Yeah. Hearts of resident.
Very much the Gary Weaver of Scottish football. I watched that game.

It was one of the rare occasions where, faced with the choice of matches last Sunday, because I think it was

Brighton, West Ham, Fulham Palace, where the Sky Premier League games. I actually went for Celty against Hearts.
I watched the whole thing on a Sunday. I don't blame you.
It was great. Chaotic match.

But yeah, that's... I did have that moment.

It was almost a Goodman Hinchcliffe thing where I was like, is this Weaver? No, no, this is Crocker.

Weaver and Mr. Goals on Sunday in Crocker.
Yeah.

Maybe, I mean, I suppose if any goal does warrant a blimey, it's, you know, the league leaders, you know, still carrying on and doing their thing at the team who are, you know, everyone assumes he's going to overhaul them in the end, Charlie, and go 2-0 up.

Yeah, I mean, I suppose, and I don't know enough about it, but he said that they've scored from a set piece again. So that element of it must have been a bit less surprising.

But yeah, the circumstances, it merits it. You know, like if Arsenal scored from a corner and he'd say, blimey, you know, more be like, they're at it again, sort of territory.

It's a bit of a strange outburst, but in my research for this, I looked up on listenfairplay.com. I've said it 25 times on the podcast.
Wow. Didn't have myself down as a blimey man, but I guess I am.

No, I don't think of you as a blimey man. Yeah, I get it from my parents, I think.
They're a blimey, pair of blimey merchants. There you are.

Olivia Giroux, Dave, is on Monday night football tonight before this pod goes out. An absolute last half-hour merchant he's going to be.
That's what I've got him on.

Yeah, he's going to charm them, isn't he?

He's also going to be amazing. And I remember this was said years ago, Blake.

He's one of those players who he will have the most absurd compilation of madly good goals for a guy who, you know, wasn't really ever prolific, but he's got so many great goals that he can talk through

with the boys. And yeah, also, he's played with so many players and for so many big clubs.
Yeah, that's a big story.

On the resurgence of the number nines in the Premier League. He'll be good on that.

A bit late for him, though, isn't it? Show a few misses at the end, and he could say, Well, you know, maybe I am human after all. Maybe.

Olivia Gray.

Your accent's on absolute fire today, by the way.

Speaking of the great man, it's time for Keys and Gray Corner.

Super Sunday.

A trio of pure Keys gold here, very confrontational. He's been over the last week or so.
Here's Richard Keyes versus Rude Hulitz on Jude Bellingham.

And I think that also Bellingham is a victim of that. Yeah.

A victim.

But I'm a victim.

Yeah, because he can't play in the same way he did

when Kros was there.

When Kroes was there in the midfield, Volverda was there in the midfield. Then they had balance in that.
Now it becomes another guy. He's an agitator, not a victim.

No, he's a great player. Come on.
He might be Rudy, but he's also. There's a reason Thomas Tuchel won't pick him.
It's a ridiculous suggestion. It's a ridiculous suggestion.

It's not a ridiculous suggestion.

He's the best player they have. He might be a very good player, but his attitude is wrong.
He just wants to win. I'll tell you the beggars.
No, he doesn't. He wants

Bellum does. He works very hard for the English.
He doesn't want everyone. Well, then, tell me why two senior England internationals don't want him around.

This is.

If you had to put a Keesy sort of confrontation in a time capsule, Charlie, this would be right up there because they have a little kind of talking over each other contretemp.

Hullett tries to just sort of throw in some, I've been there and done it balance. Keesy's not having it, and then chucks in some wisdom at the end that he's gleaned from his sources.

That's the final blow. It's so classic.
And calling him Rudy. Yeah.
Seemingly out of nowhere. No less.
He was born Rudy Dill.

I think it's just more of an affectionate thing. He said, Rudy.
Yeah, Rudy.

Yeah,

great little exchange. I love the claims that he just wants to win.
No, he doesn't.

He doesn't want to win. Yeah, Keys is very entrenched in his opinions about certain people, but he will always unleash his

knowledge. Dave, here's Keys versus Rude Hullett Part 2, Mohamed Salah.
What is the motivation of it? Do you want to leave?

I think Liverpool's motivation is... I think so.
Look, the point is this. Can I just add? No, no, no.
Can I add something? I have been in the same situation as him, with Milan. Same thing.

He would have walked for nothing. They couldn't have afforded to let TAA go and Mo Sala for nothing.

So

I think he's not happy with the way things are at the moment at the football club. And he's not the only one.

There's another senior professional there in exactly the same boat who hasn't said anything. And he's getting away with murder at the moment, week in, week out.

Have you ever heard anyone say TAA out live, Dave? No. It's so weird.
It's so unwieldy. Actually, quite hard to say,

yeah. Yeah.
Wow, just say Trent if you absolutely have to.

But yeah, same pattern pattern followed here again charlie um lets them batter around a bit and then just just brings out the sucker punch of the information that he's got yeah i wonder how much rudy's enjoying this

week in week out week in getting away with murder finally uh had to do this this is keyes gray and rude hullett again on the word nutmeg just let this all just wash over you When we do it, you shout, Megs.

Megs. Yeah, but what is a meg? What is it? What does it mean? Well, it doesn't matter, is it? Yeah, it matters.

He says it's a small punt. I have a tunnel.

What is the meg? Do you engage? What is the meg?

I don't know. No, it's it.

Did you just shout megs or nuts? Yeah.

But what does it mean? Do you shout, oh, small tunnel when you push it through someone's legs? No, no. Petit tunnel.
Do you shout petit pon when you pick up? No, no, no.

Petit pon.

But what is a nut meg? What is a meg? What is it?

Well, a nut meg is a.

It's a nut.

Yeah, it's cinnamon, isn't it? It's a shape of cinnamon, cinnamon, yeah. But what has it to do with a nutmeg? It's a space.
Nutmeg is a space. So what has it to do with the...

I think if I'm...

What is it? I think at some point in my life, I have come across this phrase previously. I think it's Victorian slang

for being tricked.

or made to look foolish.

But what has it to do with

the cinnamon? You made them look foolish by nutmegging them. Yeah.
But what is the cinnamon to do with

foolish? Nothing. That's just another meaning of it.

It could also be that it's... Yes, it's, you know, apples and pears are stairs in Cockney rhyming slang.
Nutmeg, leg. Nutmeg.
So you might have the nutmeg.

Nutmeg and the leg and

it's very, very

far-fetched. I think it's.

We probably shouldn't have analysed it.

It's just a question.

It's a great question.

We've ever stopped to think about it, really. Knowledge, history, this program has everything.
And humour.

But you'll learn something here you'll learn casey is such a bluffer like that there was a very distinct discernible point in that conversation dave where it was clearly obvious that he'd been given the nod and the wink from a producer with the actual information he just suddenly piped up with it it's amazing yeah and what is he like yeah i think at some point yeah i have come across this actually it's just a girl some recollection some recollection oh god but he used to cheat on his exams definitely i like the point where and you see this when other people do it as well Occasionally, the mainstream media, they end up in clichés' territory and they do it, and then they go, oh, wow, this is all silly.

We shouldn't bother talking about this anyway, should we? No, you should have done. Well done.
Exactly. Exactly.
Because when you see it through, you end up with 485 episodes of football clichés.

That's what you get. Yeah, the rarefied air of football discourse.
Thanks to you, Charlie Eckershare. Thank you.
Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you.

And get in touch with your niche fascinations and irritations of football because we'll be back on Thursday with your Mezza Harlan Dicks.

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