Unexpected Clive Tyldesley noises & Gabriel's hypothetical Arsenal own-goal hell

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Speaker 7 This nation is going to dance all night!

Speaker 7 England appropriating the phrase send-off for their March friendlies, picking out the most ITV-looking World Cup fixtures from the group stage TV schedule, Clive Tildley's commentary voice in Sky Atlantic trailers, a brave radio reporter subverts the turn provider classic, and it's actually fine.

Speaker 7 Some very unthreatening hooligans in a BBC radio drama.

Speaker 4 The famous old club threshold. What if Arsenal's Gabrielle couldn't stop scoring own goals?

Speaker 7 And Richard Keyes' news in brief.

Speaker 4 Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts.

Speaker 7 This is Football Clichés.

Speaker 7 Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés. I'm Adam Hurry and this is the final midweek adjudication panel of the year.
That's how the timetable has fallen.

Speaker 7 Alongside me is a very happy birthday to Charlie Ecclesia. How are you doing? I'm good.
Thank you. How did you know that? Out of interest.
Facebook notification. We are Facebook friends after all.

Speaker 7 Facebook. Yeah.
Old school.

Speaker 7 Yeah, that's good because it's weird. Otherwise, you know, in a work context, it's not like anyone knows and it feels a bit weird and needy.
Being like, oh, it's actually my birthday today.

Speaker 7 But so thank you. I'm glad I didn't have to raise it myself.
Yay, yah, Torre. What a month it's been for you.
350th Cliche's appearance and your birthday.

Speaker 7 I feel like you're going to get the Freedom of Walthamstow at some point just to complete the set. I know.
December's just so crammed full of festive things.

Speaker 7 The 350th appearance was very much the icing on the cake.

Speaker 7 Alongside you, David Walker, how are things? Things are good. Excellent.
Glad to hear it. Cricket clichés, they're recording episode three as we speak.
I understand.

Speaker 7 So if you want to get involved in future episodes, go to cricket.football clichés.com. The Football Cliches Christmas quiz.

Speaker 7 Yet again, I will remind you on the 28th of December, 8 p.m.

Speaker 7 GMT, we're going to be live streaming a fully interactive multiple choice quiz six rounds of purely clichés trivia six pounds to enter as well lots of people asking Dave whether they can they can play in teams but not in the same place at the same time that's up to them if they've got a sufficient communication interface to be able to to facilitate that I'm all for it but otherwise sign up on your own it's fine yeah I mean you can get on zoom together and there could be a designated question answer through the app various ways you could do it or yeah get together yeah It's Christmas.

Speaker 7 Yeah. It's not locked down anymore.
Yeah, exactly. £250

Speaker 7 for the winners. The rest of the money is going to go to shelter.
Just go to football cliches.com slash Xmas to get involved for your chance to win the very first Football Cliches Christmas quiz live.

Speaker 7 Right, let's get stuck into the final midweek adjudication panel of 2025.

Speaker 7 News breaking, Dave, in the World of the England national team, that the friendlies against Uruguay and Japan at the end of March are going to be dubbed the 2026 send-off series. I don't like it.

Speaker 7 I don't like the send-off to a tournament being formalised in any way. It should be something that should be just said in casual conversation and in match reports, but never, ever formalised.

Speaker 7 Especially not in March.

Speaker 7 Are they like playing again before the World Cup? They will have two warm-up games, but they're going to be in Miami, I think.

Speaker 7 They want to acclimatise and all that. Because usually they would be the traditional send-off at Wembley.

Speaker 7 And they do like one at Wembley and then maybe one abroad or something or somewhere else in the country like they did last summer. But yeah, I can see that it feels a bit shoehorned, doesn't it?

Speaker 7 The send-off series in March. The opponents as well, Uruguay, Japan, they're not really related to any of our opponents in the World Cup group.

Speaker 7 I do feel like the piss-taking, are you playing someone similar to your group stage opponents discourse, Charlie, has basically put off all national associations for setting up this friendly?

Speaker 7 Now, we basically rattled them. Even though it might make some sense that we can't.
We can't.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I mean you can see why the sort of marketing bods at the FA have come up with this because it does give it a degree of meaning when, you know, England friendlies can be quite a hard sell, you know, so synonymous they are.

Speaker 7 I mean, even qualifiers with paper aeroplanes and that sort of thing.

Speaker 7 A send-off series suggests it's like, you know, the last time, the last opportunity you'll get to see our brave boys and the last chance they'll get to play together before they go off.

Speaker 7 Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, that is strictly true, Dave.

Speaker 7 On that basis, then, you don't think that the end of March is too early for a send-off, even if they aren't going to be playing on home soil again before the World Cup. That is the send-off, is it?

Speaker 7 Are they going to walk around the pitch waving? Will they do that two months before the start of the tournament?

Speaker 7 Well, I suppose they might do just a round of a lap of honour applauding the fans, but the waving, it doesn't feel like you can wave.

Speaker 7 You'll see me, you'll see me again

Speaker 7 many, many times.

Speaker 7 Have a good time.

Speaker 7 No, you'll see me again.

Speaker 7 Okay, but you know.

Speaker 7 But also, I mean, Uruguay and Japan, actually, quite a decent standard of opposition for friendlies.

Speaker 7 But if you were going to do the play someone similar to the teams in your group thing, which I guess they could still do in the warm-up games in June, I think you go for Honduras

Speaker 7 for Panama. Right.
And you go Cameroon, who haven't qualified for the World Cup for Ghana, right? Honduras and Cameroon would be a perfect pairing of send-off games close to the World Cup.

Speaker 7 I think those warm-up games in Miami will be against teams in the World Cup and there'll be a sort of a tacit agreement not to plow into each other in tackles.

Speaker 7 Oh yeah because there was that Honduras game where

Speaker 7 before the 2014 World Cup where players got injured where we realized after about 10 minutes that they were approaching this game in a slightly aggressive way.

Speaker 7 Was that the Thunderstorm game or am I mixing it up with something else? Oh yeah. Also in Miami.
Wow. So

Speaker 7 redisitting the scene. Can't play them again.
No, definitely not. Yeah this 2026 send-off series.
Not unattractive actually. Two very interesting opponents.

Speaker 7 Speaking of the World Cup, the TV schedule for the group stages has dropped, Charlie.

Speaker 7 I've cherry-picked the most ITV games of the selection. Mexico versus South Africa, the opening game will be on ITV.
That's very ITV. Yeah.
Qatar versus Switzerland to me is very ITV as well.

Speaker 7 Switzerland is broadly very ITV, I think. Interesting, yeah.

Speaker 7 One that's leapt out to me is being... What's the thinking there, Adam?

Speaker 7 Just a vibe, and my vibes are strong. Belgium v Egypt feels BBC to me.
Yeah. Belgium are very BBC.
BBC games are harder to pick out in some ways, but Belgium feels like that's quite them.

Speaker 7 Has Roberto Martinez done. I know he's not their manager anymore, but he was, and I feel like he's done sort of BBC stuff.
He feels quite BBC friendly.

Speaker 7 So that feels quite BBC to me. Weirdly, I sort of...
Obviously, this could be unpicked so easily if you went back and looked through all the games. Don't worry about that.

Speaker 7 I feel like ITV sometimes is the beneficiary of having games on in the...

Speaker 7 in the afternoon or whatever, which obviously won't be the case this time, but just having those sort of games, which on paper are not headline grabbers, they're not prime time, but like you've got Netherlands against Japan.

Speaker 7 That's so ITV. It could be really fun.
It could be ending up being a really fun game to watch.

Speaker 7 Whereas BBC might go for a slightly more box office game in the evening, and

Speaker 7 it's not as good. I mean, other crucial selections.
As Becca Stan vs. Columbia, the famed 3am kickoff, Charlie, is on BBC.
That's good news. It means you can watch it better on your phone, on iPlayer.

Speaker 7 You don't have to go to ITVX, which is a shambles at the best of times.

Speaker 7 I feel like ITV are better suited to the three AM-ers, though.

Speaker 7 They had the Ivory Coast Japan

Speaker 7 2 AM or whatever it was, 2 AM in 2014

Speaker 7 with the single commentator, Joe Spate, the single commentator. Was it? Oh, it was Gary Bloom.
In fact, I thought it was John Helm.

Speaker 7 Whole Dreamland episode on that one then.

Speaker 7 We won't dwell on this any further, but yes, BBC Really. BBC have got France visiting a gaul.
So that's a big one. That's a premium game, isn't it? For groups.

Speaker 7 And obviously, you know, the sort of pre-match montage, you know, that absolutely rights itself.

Speaker 7 What's the England situation? Because that's always a big thing, isn't it? The supposed... Is it ITV curse or BBC curse? ITV curse.
ITV curse.

Speaker 7 So our first game against Croatia is on ITV. They tend to do the first one, don't they? Yeah.
They're good at England, though.

Speaker 7 That's the home of England now. So I feel like they should have two group games.

Speaker 7 I mean, the BBC ITV divide, we've discussed this a lot on this podcast Charlie I feel like you know it's very blurred these days pretty even-handed in their quality of broadcasting.

Speaker 7 Yeah, and I do think as well the age of ads

Speaker 7 You know sort of being you know ads were such an issue for a while the age of ads

Speaker 7 Well, do you know what I mean? The age of ads being a big talking point like the premiership that was like the single biggest talking point was like what are we gonna do?

Speaker 7 We're gonna have ads and match the day that are we gonna cope whereas I feel now people are far better able with phones or what have you to amuse themselves for a few minutes during ad breaks.

Speaker 7 That's actually a big really big deal like the BBC now have to fill that time rather than the other way around. We're not missing out on anything.

Speaker 7 The BBC just have to fill it with some more shit before a game starts. Yeah, there's a lot.
There is a lot to go through.

Speaker 7 I remember that in the last World Cup watching the build-up to one of the England games. And you realise, yeah, that's a lot of time to fill.

Speaker 7 Without the relief of every 10 minutes or so, just cutting to ads. Coming up, an interview with John Stones.

Speaker 7 Don't care. Right, let's move on.
Footballers, names, and things. Well, actually, it's Clive Tilsley's voice in Sky Atlantic trailers.
Here's Matt Smith in the death of of Bunny Monroe.

Speaker 12 Right now, that boy needs his father.

Speaker 13 Your dad's not brilliant at looking after anyone who isn't your dad. I've been talking with money.

Speaker 7 What?

Speaker 7 The police are asking lots of questions about you. Come on, catch Bunny Monroe!

Speaker 7 Dave, you really pushed for this. I wasn't sure about it when we got sent it.
I'm really sorry.

Speaker 7 I forgot who sent it to us, which is very annoying, but I wasn't sure about it, but it's really grown on you, this one, hasn't it? It's great.

Speaker 7 I keep seeing it on TV, and each time I hear it, it gets more and more Teldsley. It's just something in that last

Speaker 7 intonation of Munro.

Speaker 7 And you can imagine... A Captain's Goal.
Yeah, it is. It is Captain's goal.
It's pure Tildsley, yeah. Hello.

Speaker 7 I was trying to work out the specific footballing scenario that Bunny Monroe has been involved in, Dave. What was it saying to you? I like Captain's Goal for this.
Yeah, it's not a winner, is it?

Speaker 7 Is it like a bail against Intermilan, sort of outpacing a fullback? Like a second in a 2-0 win in a massive game, I think. So, like, not a cake icer, but a sealer.
A seat.

Speaker 7 Yeah, exactly. But in a big game to justify the excitement.
But you're absolutely right about that final syllable. It's totally tildely.
Bunny Monroe! And Bunny Monroe.

Speaker 7 I mean, I'm trying to think of a player.

Speaker 7 I guess there's Bunny Shaw in the WSL. She could get married, maybe, change her surname.
But I feel like that's a really old school name, Bunny Monroe, that it would be, you know,

Speaker 7 people sort of had nicknames, didn't they? That weren't. 70s Scottish.
Yeah, his name was actually David Munro, but he was nicknamed Bunny. Nobody knows why.
Because he was just really athletic.

Speaker 7 He had a really good leap. John Bunny Munro.
We wouldn't stop running, maybe. Bunny Munro.

Speaker 7 We called them Bunny Bunny. Right.

Speaker 7 I want to next recap a phenomenon we have called Gets the Shot Away. Federico Kids gets the shot away.
He skates into the zone. Drop pass for Petter.
Gets the shot away.

Speaker 7 Licks it on its way.

Speaker 14 And now we'll step our way back into plank pose, holding here for just one breath. Send the heels back.
Press the mat away.

Speaker 13 Bethel flex this on the way.

Speaker 13 High in the air.

Speaker 7 So it's been a while since we've had an addition to this family, but here's a new one. It came from Ben Whiteley.
It's from the Formula One at the weekend.

Speaker 12 Lando Norris is heading in

Speaker 12 to the turn 12 section, and he had a Red Bull in the way.

Speaker 7 Are you allowing this one, Charlie?

Speaker 7 Red Bull in the way. Way.

Speaker 7 That was really close to being quite a terrible accident, actually.

Speaker 7 Which does lend itself to the intonation. You know, just all near miss in the formula.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 it's a great progression of it.

Speaker 7 It's like you're kind of making up nonsense lyrics to a song, and you just say the first thing that comes to your head, a Red Bull in the Way.

Speaker 7 Charlie, what

Speaker 7 scenario could we see this happen in tennis?

Speaker 7 Line judge in the way. Oh, no, no, they got rid of line judges.
Net cord, net cord potentially? Just over the net. Gets the lob away.

Speaker 7 What you could do is if a player is running towards the net, if you touch the net after falling through, you lose the point.

Speaker 7 So it could be, it is a sort of like, gets the volley away, just as he does it. Just, and he's sort of holding his racket and stopping his momentum from kind of toppling onto the net.

Speaker 7 See if you can make it happen. Reach out with your tennis tentacles to the elementary community.
Have a word with Andrew Castle. I feel like he's got that in his locker.

Speaker 7 But Andrew Cotter, he's got that kind of beautiful Scottish lilt. God, I dread to think the contents of Andrew Castle's locker.
Right, this came from Ian Gallagher from the weekend.

Speaker 7 He says, I was driving home from a long family Christmas day out earlier, and Sports Report had a gem for us. Here's Nathan Alban reporting from Everton's win over Nottingham Forest.

Speaker 3 Breaking home from a three-on-one situation. That goal in first half stoppage time, a highlight among highlights for this Everton home crowd.
They were in control from the second minute.

Speaker 3 Nikola Milenkovich heading into his own net from a whipped Dewsbury Hall cross.

Speaker 7 Jewsbury Hall then turning goal scorer late on driving low into the far corner so goal and assist for him I don't want to dismiss this concept completely Charlie and turning goal scorer is not a thing no but there's no reason why it shouldn't be and not just not just because it's not just because it's a perfectly elegant turn of phrase but the idea of setting someone up and then scoring later yourself is is basically the same transaction as doing it the other way around.

Speaker 7 So I'm alright with turning goal scorer. Yeah, it's actually a more natural progression in a way.
You know, you're going from something to something you're going to have. You've got one better.

Speaker 7 Better. Yeah, exactly.
I think you might expect a slight knowingness. You know, well, it was a case of provider-turned goal scorer.

Speaker 7 So it's sort of like you're making the listener aware that you know it's normally the other way around.

Speaker 7 Okay. But yeah, I'm all right with it.
So yeah, Nathan, you're off the hook.

Speaker 7 He went on to say after this clip, Dave, that clamour was growing for Kin and Jujby Hall to be involved in the England setup. I'm not sure he's in clamour.

Speaker 7 territory just yet mainly because his form is good clearly he's got it in a couple of eye-catching moments recently but England is surely well-stocked in that position as well.

Speaker 7 Do we need Kieran and Jerusby Hall to be good? I don't know where that clamour's coming from. It's 27.
It certainly hasn't reached me or my E-Pod colleagues yet. Right.

Speaker 7 But I don't know, maybe we're off the ball. But it's, yeah,

Speaker 7 there's a lot of good

Speaker 7 midfielder-y... attacking midfielder number 10 types.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 he just would be crowded out, I think.

Speaker 7 But with that said, every single squad Thomas Tuchel has named so far, there's been someone in it that you that's slightly left field, or you wouldn't have thought was in the field.

Speaker 7 Someone who just comes out of nowhere for the old squad at Tornasi, I think Alex Scott was in the last one, which was a bit of a surprise. And I am very much in that mode at the moment: anytime I see

Speaker 7 an English player who's maybe been in a squad before, who's been around it, at the moment I'm going, ooh, like Dominic Calvert-Lewin scoring a few goals. I'm thinking, ooh, could he? Maybe.

Speaker 7 Nigel, no.

Speaker 7 I mean, if we're looking for more players to wear a... Third strike is up for grabs, I think.
Yeah, potentially. But surely Welbs is sort of far ahead of him in the technical fitness.

Speaker 7 Does he stay fit? That's the problem with Calvin Lewis.

Speaker 7 If he can stay fit, if you can keep him fit. Can you have a clap? Because I'm sure there is a clamour among Everton fan.
I'm sure lots of Everton fans think he's playing brilliantly.

Speaker 7 It should be in the England conversation. But it needs to go beyond that, doesn't it? It can't just be.
Yeah. It can't be so parochial.
Otherwise, that's not really. That's not a clamour.

Speaker 7 That's absolutely right. And if it hasn't reached the England pop, then it can't be a clamour of any note, surely.

Speaker 7 But if we do need more players to wear a really high squad number and a bib and stand with arms draped around each other's shoulders watching England lose a penalty shootout, then Keener Jisby Hall is very much your man.

Speaker 7 So that could be good. Meanwhile, Southampton beat West Brom 3-2 on Tuesday night.

Speaker 7 32-year-old German Tonda Eckert has overseen a dramatic turnaround in fortunes after being promoted from the under-21s to succeed Will Still at St. Mary's.

Speaker 7 This came from GB Giorginho, though, and the commentator's gone too far here, I think. Once Will Still was dismissed, he stepped into the breach.

Speaker 12 And how, by the way.

Speaker 7 I will not have an and how, by the way, Dave. You can't have an and howard by the way.
It's one or the other.

Speaker 7 And how, by the way.

Speaker 7 Kind of muffles the and how.

Speaker 7 And how is supposed to be a really emphatic thing, Charlie. But by the way, just brings it gently down to earth.
Yeah, it's too much. Yeah, it's like he's pressed the button.

Speaker 7 He's pressed the button twice. Oh, I didn't mean to get both of them out there.

Speaker 7 I quite like it, actually. I think it sort of works in the tone of voice that is delivered now, by the way.

Speaker 7 And how, by the way, no, no, the and how has to be something that's so noted and so obviously at the forefront that you don't need to buy the weigh it. So, uh, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 7 These are the margins that we work with on the Football Clichés podcast.

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Speaker 7 Welcome back to Football Clichés. Dreamland episode 13 is going to be out in the next few days.

Speaker 7 We are going to be wading through this citation-needed world of supposedly iconic football quotes, including a confirmation of the origin of Gary Lineker's 22-men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end, the Germans win, which everyone has been asking for all these years.

Speaker 7 It might be a surprise to some of you. If you want to sign up for Dreamlands, go to dreamland.football clichés.com for $5.99 a month.

Speaker 7 You'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes and two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show. And other things as well, including discounts on merchandise.

Speaker 7 Go to merch.football clichés.com, buy your loved ones, clichés listening loved ones, ideally, some clichés merch. And we've got bundles available.
Always nice to be able to say the word bundle, Dave.

Speaker 7 Yeah, and they are

Speaker 7 good bundles at that. Yeah.
Free badges in your bundles and a free month of Dreamland in there as well. So go to merch.football cliches.com.
Some lovely stuff. Tastefully embroidered caps.

Speaker 7 I've been the real runaway success of the merch range, Charlie. I'm pleasantly surprised.
I wasn't a capman. No, I'm not a capman myself, but lovely to see so many at the live shows.

Speaker 7 And post-show drinks, there'd be many a cap. And how?

Speaker 7 Intrigued to think about how people would go about wrapping a cap if it was a present for Christmas. I guess you'd put it it in a box or something, wouldn't you?

Speaker 7 You'd stuff it with paper to flesh out the shape, and then you could wrap it. But yeah, it'd be very obvious what it is.
What's this? Oh, God.

Speaker 7 Anyway, right, let's resume the adjudication panel duties with this from Luke Slater.

Speaker 7 He says, I've happened across Undercover the Fury, a BBC radio drama about an undercover policeman inside a football firm.

Speaker 7 It's not a bad listen by any means, but the name of one of the two football teams involved in the story was so jarring to be laughable.

Speaker 7 And then the firm itself, after a scuffle with a rival group, break out in a chant that starts off familiarly but then tails off into total oddness. Let's hear it.

Speaker 7 Who wants? What?

Speaker 7 All right,

Speaker 7 let's start with the first point. You can't have the athletics

Speaker 7 going on there.

Speaker 7 That's mad. Because I was thinking at the start, like, it's fine.
In a way, you're slightly between a rock and a hard place because you can't go for real names.

Speaker 7 And so anything made up sounds a bit silly. But Rovers is sort of fine.
I think you accept that. You're like, it's a generic name.
We recognise it. Athletics is just, no, it's too much.

Speaker 7 You just call them United or something. Just a recognizable suffix.
Charlie summed up the dilemma.

Speaker 7 Yeah, Charlie summed up the dilemma very well here, Dave. On one hand, it is really clunky, the names of these teams.

Speaker 7 On the other, because it's a BBC radio drama, I feel like you can go just symbolic with the names and it would be alright. And

Speaker 7 to a certain extent, I prefer this to a made-up English place name like, you know, Panchester or something like that. I don't know.
It's ridiculous, isn't it? I regretted it the moment it came out.

Speaker 7 Panchester. Pear Pizza.

Speaker 7 Pear Pizza.

Speaker 7 But I think we can agree that athletics is an absolutely terrible shout for a team name here. This is Panchester United football club.

Speaker 7 Panchester's. Oh, I'm never going to be lit on.
Number one, I'm not going to live down. Why can't my brain work better?

Speaker 7 Yeah, I agree with Charlie. There are so many generic staples you could draw from.
To come up with the athletics is such like a baseball team or something. It's Oakland Athletics.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 I generalised it. Absolutely mad.
But then can we just listen again to the least threatening hooligan firm of all time, please?

Speaker 7 They sound too young. They don't sound like they care about football in the slightest.
They sound like drama students. I was going to say, it's like a bad school play.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 It does. It sounds like a student sort of protest march kind of thing.

Speaker 7 Sparsely attended. Somebody rattling something in the background.
Although someone at the end goes, do one. Yeah.
It's quite a nice touch.

Speaker 7 Yeah, it's a little bit of hooligan-flavoured seasoning in there. Is that the opposing firm? I don't know.

Speaker 7 I did like the detail. It stood out to me.

Speaker 7 Unfortunately, for the person in question, they were stabbed over six times. So we have six confirmed stabbings, but there might have been more, but we're not quite sure how many more.

Speaker 7 Gets the stab away. Anyway, no, let's not dwell on that.
Next up, John Keogh writes in and says,

Speaker 7 he's been wrestling with the idea of famous old clubs. He takes us through some examples, Charlie.
Leeds versus Villa, two famous old clubs. Liverpool versus Arsenal, not two famous old clubs.

Speaker 7 Shefford Wednesday Forest Leeds, while in the championship, famous old clubs. Watford, Norwich, Southampton in the championship, not famous old clubs.

Speaker 7 It suggests there's a cut-off size for famous old clubs, which is around the Birmingham City, Sheffield United sort of mark.

Speaker 7 But when a club threatens to go out of business, the term gets used so much more frivolously. Bury, Reading, Knotts County, etc.
So is it as complex as John suggests?

Speaker 7 Yeah, there's something in that. I mean, famous old clubs does lend itself to a kind of news report style situation or a kind of little featurette on football focus.

Speaker 7 So I could imagine, you know, Leeds Villa being like, but for these two famous old clubs, it's back in the big time this season or something like that.

Speaker 7 And obviously the famous old clubs in the, you're in, you know, in the Berry example or Reading, you're in the town wandering around,

Speaker 7 you know, having just Vox pop fans about what this place means to the city and all of that.

Speaker 7 But for something like Arsenal liverpool you'd never lead with that there's too there's there'd be way too much going on and yeah they've gone beyond being like the the fact that they're famous old clubs almost goes without saying it's not it's not the most important thing to reference it yeah that's that's a good point so yeah so it's not enough to be famous and old dave you've got to have something happen to you that need that needs your fame and oldness evoked to embellish the story i would say arsenal are arsenal have all the ingredients to be a famous old club.

Speaker 7 They are famed and old. Like,

Speaker 7 there's a huge tradition to Arsenal. And to be be fair, Liverpool as well, but Arsenal have the marble halls and all that sort of stuff and Herbert Chapman.
So they're a famous old club.

Speaker 7 I feel like they would be the most likely of the big six to have that evoked about them. Well they are but I mean so are Manchester United.

Speaker 7 I don't think of them as a famous old club Manchester United for some reason. But I think it's you say it when you've got nothing better to say about a team sometimes.
You don't need it.

Speaker 7 It's sort of taken as red, but when you're talking about Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester United, probably going to be talking about them something vital and in the moment about a big match or whatever's going on in their season.

Speaker 7 Whereas when you're talking about an Everton who are famous old clubs... Everton are a famous old club.
I think they would get this a lot. Yeah, when their relegation threatened...

Speaker 7 I mean, I think the only way I could see Arsenal famous old club being evoked is if they're on the cusp of the title this season and you've got a reporter down wandering through the Emirates and it is something like, but for this famous old club, they stand on the brink of history and invoking something like, you know, the club of Herbert Chapman, almost 100 years on from Herbert Chapman.

Speaker 7 This famous old club stands on the great, stands on the verge of greatness again. Start otherwise.
Outside Highbury.

Speaker 7 Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Outside the machine.

Speaker 7 With all these variables taken into account, Dave, John asks again, who's the biggest famous old club before it becomes too weird and obvious to say? Is it Newcastle?

Speaker 7 I'd quite like Newcastle being in the equation here because, you know, they haven't won anything big in their new era to kind of move them out of the famous old club.

Speaker 7 Everton, smack bang in the middle of this famous old club discourse and probably will be for a while yet.

Speaker 7 So Everton and Newcastle, I think, are at the upper limit, I would say, of being able to just throw this in and it be okay. Villa? Villa, definitely.

Speaker 7 Forest. They are, aren't they? They are.
They're a famous old club. They're a famous old club.
Clough and all that. Exactly.

Speaker 7 Especially as, like, all of their, you know, their biggest glories all do come in, you know, in not the most recent history.

Speaker 7 I think that's why some of these other clubs, you don't, like, that's why Man United might seem not so famous old clubby, because yes, they have had historical successes, but their biggest successes have come in extremely recently in the sort of grand scheme of things.

Speaker 7 Are Arsenal and Man United Charlie just grand old clubs?

Speaker 7 Because you don't need to call them famous. They're just grand old clubs and that's I feel like that's more versatile a phrase.
You could use that anytime. This grand old club.

Speaker 7 Yeah I still think it would sound a bit weird with them. Who's the smallest club that's a famous old club?

Speaker 7 Accrington Stanley? They're a famous old club. That's a good shout.
Preston? Bradford Park Avenue. Yeah, Preston are definitely a famous old club.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 There's loads of teams in the lower reaches of the league that can still cling on to that status quite quite easily. Yeah, all right, interesting.
Pete Farrell sent this one in next.

Speaker 7 It's New England Patriots quarterback Drake May talking about his wife. It's been awesome.
She's in her little journey doing bakemas right now.

Speaker 7 I get to do the good part of trying all the stuff she bakes. I tried to bring some leftovers into the building, but she's a superstar.

Speaker 7 She's been a big addition for me being up here and living with me.

Speaker 7 It's such a sporty way of saying it. What an addition she's been.
She's been like a new sign. Yeah, yeah, since we got her in the building.

Speaker 7 We've joked about this before, Charlie, about someone having a kid and calling them an addition you know did they you know they've settled in well and that sort of but that feels more logical because it's literally an addition it's like the new addition to your family you can't call your wife a new addition it's shocking

Speaker 7 she's been a really important member become a really important member of the squad what a wish she was signing she's been it's surely it's a loan deal with a view to a permanent isn't it really

Speaker 7 i suppose is it like a new signing not really no she's been there the whole time on this subject new signing did you see by the way james madison referred to himself himself when he gets back from injury?

Speaker 7 He said, you know, I might be like a new signer.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I don't think I've ever heard a player describe themselves in this stuff.

Speaker 7 We need to be able to do that. We should have made more of that.
We should have got that clip. Yeah, but it doesn't quite surprise me that Madison came out with it.

Speaker 7 I feel like he can carry it off, Charlie, actually, now I think about it. Yeah, if anyone say it, it makes sense it was him.
Can we talk about Madison, actually? Because we predicted that

Speaker 7 he would get a lot of plaudits for his Monday Night Football appearance. And it wasn't bad, but I don't think it quite lived up to expectations.
And I think partly because of the Salah thing,

Speaker 7 it was massively overshadowed by Cara's rant on Salah, which was notable that Madison did not get asked about it, was not on screen.

Speaker 7 I do wonder whether that was something preordained by the clubs or whatever. But

Speaker 7 he didn't leave it all out there.

Speaker 7 I know what you mean, like, because I bigged him up, because I think he is generally a really good talker. And I think there were some good bits, but yeah, maybe didn't quite...

Speaker 7 Flashes of genius, were there? Yeah, there were moments, but faded later on.

Speaker 7 Dave, you told me about the fact that Madison had no part in the salah debate, such as there was one between the three of them. And so he wasn't in shot.

Speaker 7 He wasn't called upon in the discussion at all. But Carragher was addressing both of them with his eyes.
And I was like, what's Madison?

Speaker 7 What's Madison sort of doing while he's being looked at by Carragher as he goes on this rant? But he's a bit like, yeah, sort of recusing himself from the debate, which I guess would have been fine.

Speaker 7 But yeah, I suspect some words were had beforehand about, yeah, don't ask me about this.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I'm not going to talk about a fellow professional. Philip Edwards writes in next day.
He says, I live on a one-way street, supposedly.

Speaker 7 Is one-way traffic used no matter what the scoreline is, or does it lose its impetus once the game has been put to bed? This is an interesting one.

Speaker 7 When is one-way traffic most pertinent in a game to be said? Well, I think it's when a team's chasing a game, like they need a goal, or the game's still nil-nil.

Speaker 7 It'd be very strange to say it at 2-0 or 3-0, right? Yeah, I think it's still, it would need to be.

Speaker 7 I think you'd remark on it if it was early on and a team was getting maybe goals might not be going in but one team is absolutely hammering the other in terms of chances they're just and it's all it's all one-way traffic here surely it's only a matter of time i think charlie i think the ultimate soccer saturday scenario for this would be big team 2-0 down they've got one back and now it's one-way traffic it's it's it's it's it's all tottenham at the moment it's so soccer saturday isn't it oh it's one-way traffic here jeff yeah yeah it's very yeah i i do think of it as an early thing um i think 0-0 definitely could be.

Speaker 7 I do also think it could be a, you know, a team has surprisingly gone 1-0 up, and it remains one-way traffic.

Speaker 7 So, like, you're really emphasising the point that they've absolutely dominated these early exchange.

Speaker 7 There's been no change, you know, there's been no let-up, despite the fact they got that early goal.

Speaker 7 But you would never encourage it for a big team who are like 3-0 up and essentially strolling it, but still pouring forward in search of more. But that's not one-way traffic, is it?

Speaker 7 There's no point in saying it, is there? No. No, I agree.
Thanks to Philip Edwards for that one.

Speaker 7 Keith Riley Riley has a hypothetical scenario about consecutive things happening that I was convinced we'd done before, but I can't believe we haven't, Dave.

Speaker 7 He asks, how many consecutive own goals would a player need to score to be permanently dropped by their team?

Speaker 7 In this scenario, the rest of their game is as good as ever, but the ball just simply keeps going in off them. So it's purely accidental.

Speaker 7 He's picked a really good sort of case study for this. If you took Arsenal's Gabrielle as an example, how many games could he score one own goal each in before he never plays for Arsenal again?

Speaker 7 And then what happens to to him after that? This is great. So Charlie says he's out injured now, but let's say he scores an own goal against Wolves this weekend.
They win 4-1, nobody cares.

Speaker 7 He scores another against Everton, but they win again, but now it's slightly odd. Then he scores another against Palace and the stats come out.
Now it's a thing people are talking about.

Speaker 7 And that's absolutely right. Surely he's getting benched after the next two or three.
If he racked up 10 to 15 by the end of the season, would they sell him?

Speaker 7 I mean, let's ignore the extreme situation for now. I completely agree with the threshold here, Charlie.
He could get away with two consecutive games with own goals, whether Arsenal win or not.

Speaker 7 If he scores a third, an athletic piece is coming out. Like, how, what's, what's going on? How do you know? Has anyone got a number for Frank Sinclair? Yeah, what's eating Gabrielle?

Speaker 7 I think it goes beyond what's eating. I think when you score, that's a kind of low-level man.
I would love it if it was in what's eating. What's in Gabrielle? Why does he keep scoring own goals?

Speaker 7 This is odd.

Speaker 7 Okay, well, I'm just looking at the Arsenal's games. They've got Wolves on the weekend, yeah, then Everton, then.
I'm thinking you're looking at the opponents here for the arts.

Speaker 7 Well, I'm just getting a sense of it. I mean, yeah, definitely can get away with those two.
Even three. I think you're still...
Three in a row. Yeah, because he's that good.
He's that good.

Speaker 7 And also, he does score at the other end. So there's a chance he might in one of those games have scored.
And then you're saying, like, oh, what a weird quirk. Gabrielle with a goal and an own goal.

Speaker 7 I love it. You're bringing these extra things into it.

Speaker 7 But I want to pause on this, though, because I've suggested to Charlie, Dave, that, you know, Gabrielle, something would have to be done after the third.

Speaker 7 Two is complete, you know, complete occupational hazard. After a third, it's a problem, like it's something technically has gone wrong.
But the problem is,

Speaker 7 not only because this is a completely unprecedented situation, but could you drop a player for scoring own goals?

Speaker 7 I mean, at one point, it's going to become, you know, you're harming the team, but it's something that probably could be fixed.

Speaker 7 But you can't drop a player for scoring own goals, but otherwise be in good form. It would be absolutely bizarre.
Take him out the firing line? I don't know. What is it?

Speaker 7 It is a take him out the firing line situation.

Speaker 7 I think it does depend on the nature of the own goals. If they are all genuinely really unlucky and they're sort of deflections.

Speaker 7 But even if they were, I think at some point you'd get someone like Karaga going, yeah, but you know,

Speaker 7 once or twice, fine. But if it keeps happening, again, you're doing something wrong.
Your technique's all off there. The body position's all wrong.

Speaker 7 Right, yeah, I want to clarify this, even though Keith Riley hasn't, Charlie.

Speaker 7 We're not talking about shots that were were going off target and went in off the defender and therefore were classified as own goals.

Speaker 7 We're talking about a deliberate attempt to play the ball, even if it's a slide, a foot stuck out, anything, a an attempt to divert the ball but accidentally turning it into your own net.

Speaker 7 At some point you'd get a big spot fixing inquiry, wouldn't you? Do you think it would be a thing?

Speaker 7 Do you think suspicions would be raised? At what point would suspicions be raised? After the fourth?

Speaker 7 I mean, fourth in a row? But the suspicions would be like, it would be so blatant that. It's not like spot fixing.
It's not like picking up some innocuous yellows that then gets investigated.

Speaker 7 Like scoring own goals. And like how much someone who earns as much as he does would have to be getting paid.

Speaker 7 It would be so so awkward the moment that, you know, sensible reporters who feel like they have a job to do would start looking into it, Charlie, and thinking, like, do we have to raise this question, slightly taboo question of is he doing it deliberately to win a bet?

Speaker 7 Yeah. I mean, just on, I mean, I mentioned Frank Sinclair.
At the start of the 99, 2000 season, he scored a last-minute own goal winner for Arsenal.

Speaker 7 He's playing for Leicester, so to lose his team in the game. And then the third game of the season scores a 90th minute own goal to give Chelsea a point against Leicester.

Speaker 7 I mean, it was like absolute absolute catastrophe. And he was, you know, asked about it, interviewed being like, what's going on here?

Speaker 7 So I think he, Gabriel's getting certainly the, even after the third game, I think Arteta's coming out and saying, look, he's been one of the best defenders in Europe for the last five and a half years.

Speaker 7 You don't just drop a player because of a few misfortunes.

Speaker 7 So the reaction ramps up, but nothing would be done. Okay.
Certainly after three. Arteta would back him.
Four is taking him out the firing line, though, surely. Four in a row.
Yeah, quite possibly.

Speaker 7 I mean, if they're proper, like, comedy-own goals, then I think you kind of have to.

Speaker 7 And then, once you then bring him back in, thinking, okay, we've taken him out of the firing line,

Speaker 7 and he comes back in and keeps doing it, then you've got a real problem. Exquisite that moment when it comes back in and he does it again.
And he's done it again.

Speaker 7 The opposition fans would be that every time the ball went anywhere near him would be going, oh.

Speaker 7 And the montage of his sort of reactions to if you scored six or seven own goals, like, what do you do? like

Speaker 7 how do you react

Speaker 7 but it's so funny as well because in this hypothetical he's still playing as he would be normally which is like imperious yeah that's his brilliant probably scoring the odd goal but just can't stop scoring own goals doesn't let it affect him he's that mentally strong yeah exactly he's really able to compartmentalize someone will hold a gabriel own goal of the month sort of competition as well that would be funny um some great content would come out of this serious and non-serious i think this could be a great breath of fresh air for english football journalists.

Speaker 7 He'd probably end up scoring more own goals than a single team had scored or something. Like, yeah, Wolves are in trouble.
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, God knows.

Speaker 7 I'd have no idea what would happen to him ultimately, Keith Riley, but I'm really glad you raised it.

Speaker 7 I want to end the final midweek adjudication panel of the year with a bonus. Keys and Gray Corner.

Speaker 7 It's been a strong December for Keese's blog so far. I want to take you back to December the 1st, Charlie.
Keesy's in real kind of quick-fire round-up mode on his blogs at the moment.

Speaker 7 Obviously, he'll tackle the big issues like Salah, but he really loves going around the grounds. And some of these sort of observations just get hidden away between paragraphs.

Speaker 7 You've got a big paragraph about Villa or Emery or whatever, then a big paragraph about well Chelsea or something, and then snuck in between we've got what about that stadium Birmingham got plans for?

Speaker 7 Think again, guys, it's awful

Speaker 7 Just laying down his judgment, it's great, it's awful. Think again, guys.
Is it Beham that he's written as well? Beham, yeah,

Speaker 7 pointless abbreviations in his blog just to get it out before he goes into the studio, presumably. Um he writes it so loosely, it's so weird.

Speaker 7 No, I love I mean that's always the those just complete non-secretaries is what's always set him apart. He writes it as if he knows they're reading it as well.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 I'd love that addressing them directly.

Speaker 7 A week later, Dave, sandwiched between a paragraph about VAR decisions and West Ham cancelling their Christmas party is simply a line, Goodbye, Eve Basuma, idiot, but he's not alone.

Speaker 7 Oh really?

Speaker 7 He needs more context there. You've got to tell us what you mean.
What to support is he on?

Speaker 7 He's not alone. He's not alone in being an idiot.
He's

Speaker 7 not someone leaving. I think he's talking about the balloon inhalation epidemic amongst uh footballers in the UK.
Um, yeah, I think that's that's his point.

Speaker 7 Idiot.

Speaker 7 We're just

Speaker 7 that's it. One line will do.
That'll do.

Speaker 7 Finally, Shorty Rito writes in, Charlie, and says, Um, I was watching B in Sports, and just before the second half of the city game, Keys says that he and Andy can't complain about the innovation of a halftime show at the World Cup because we started it, Andy.

Speaker 7 We did. That's so good.
Yeah, they did. They wrote the book.
He's basically gone full ownership of Qatar now. I feel like he is the new Emir of Qatar.

Speaker 7 The last few weeks, Dave, has seen him really kind of inherit Qatar as his own thing and he being part of their development. I'm not sure why he's been doing that more.
The rhetoric ramped up.

Speaker 7 Was he not referring to the early days of Sky Sports Premier League coverage with the big sumo men on the pitch?

Speaker 7 Yeah. Right.
I thought he meant Qatar pioneered half-time shows. Oh, it's a sea.
Yeah, I think he's getting at all those mad half-time.

Speaker 7 I mean, mean, there were more pre-game, weren't they, than halftime, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's conflated those two things. Sky strikers, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 He doesn't need much encouragement to talk about the good old days. Anyway, tremendous stuff.
Thanks to you, Charlie Ekosha. Have a lovely birthday.
Thank you. Thanks to you, David Walker.
Thank you.

Speaker 7 Thanks to everyone for listening. We'll be back on Tuesday.
See you then.

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