Philip Anthony Mitchell | Girls Gone Bible

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Hi, I'm Ari.

And I'm Ange.

And this is Girls Gone Bible.

And today is one of the most special episodes we will ever have today.

An episode that you guys have been requesting, that we have been patiently waiting for.

An amazing man of God, a pastor, a husband, a father,

an amazing man of God that is absolutely changing this generation, Pastor Philip Anthony Mitchell.

Thank y'all, ladies, for having me.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Honored to be here.

Can I just take a moment?

Yo.

I don't even, I can't even believe I'm sitting across from you right now.

Somebody asked me the other day,

who are your favorite pastors?

And I immediately said, Philip Anthony Mitchell.

I said, he,

every word that utters out of your mouth is the love of Jesus.

You speak rawness.

You speak truth.

You come from such brokenness and it's helped me and so many other people feel less alone in my brokenness.

You see the hurting, you see the broken, you see the loss because you've been there.

And because of that, Your heart beats to bring his people home.

And you have such an urgency because you love God's people.

And we thank you from the bottom of our hearts because what you are doing in this generation is something I have never seen.

And your love is so authentic and it's rare.

And we thank you so much for what you're doing.

And I can't even imagine how pleased God is looking down at you.

Thank you.

I thank you, you know, and I thank y'all, you know, for just your kind words and for your candor.

But I want to say thank you for your voices, you know, and for your biblical stance in the culture.

You know, I remember being on IG one day and seeing just a clip of y'all two having a conversation in the studio come through my news feed.

And I leaned into that clip.

I listened to you ladies talk.

And immediately I knew that there was kindred spirits there.

You know, I could hear a deep well of love for the Lord Jesus Christ.

I could hear a deep conviction about the scriptures.

I knew automatically you had a fidelity for the word of God.

And I knew listening to y'all that y'all was anointed for the hour that we're living in right now.

I knew that y'all were non-compromising and that the Lord was going to use our voices mightily in the culture.

You know, and I would find out that my daughters knew who you ladies were.

You know, and I just continued to watch and continue to follow.

And And I am a supporter and a fan of your ministry,

both of you, and what you guys have done and what you are doing right now in the culture.

So the respect is mutual.

You know, I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

And I believe that God has anointed y'all two ladies to be very, very strategic voices in the culture in this hour that we're living in right now.

So I thank y'all for y'all ministry and what y'all are doing.

Thank you so much.

Very impactful.

Very impactful

that means so much coming from you because you have you you don't do any fluff you're real so

the realest one out there so thank you jesus well thank you pastor philip we're so grateful to be with you today we have we were going through questions and we were it was ranging from like mental health to end times because we want to hear everything that you have to say about everything

um first i want to ask you so your church is 2819 church right and it's based off the verse Matthew 28, 19.

Would you just give us a little bit of a background on that?

Yeah, so I had pastored a church for about 10 years.

It was called Victory Church.

And I feel like during that season, while I was pastoring, I was faithful to the Lord.

I do believe I had fidelity to the scriptures.

But I think inside, I knew that something was missing on the inside.

I felt that there wasn't a deep sense of clarity in terms of some type of clarion call for my voice, like, Lord, I'm pastoring, but to what end?

And in retrospect, I look back on that and I could be transparent.

I feel as if there was some vanity that was in my heart during those season.

You know, I felt that I was jealous of a lot of other pastors.

Wow.

I had a lot of envy of a lot of other pastors.

I felt that a lot of my prayers were very shallow and some of them were superficial.

I felt that my preaching was faithful to the word of God, but I felt like there wasn't a depth in my preaching.

There wasn't a fire there.

I had not yet been burned by the Holy Spirit.

And maybe about

2018,

around then,

maybe sometime before the pandemic,

I had taken a trip to Israel.

that had changed my life.

I had an encounter with God in Israel.

That radically changed my heart.

It changed my preaching.

It changed my view of God.

I think it was the first time I saw God as immensely holy.

And I think it was the first time I had a deep understanding of my sinful nature before him.

And that encounter changed me coming back from Israel.

And going into the pandemic, I lost that church that I first pastored.

We lost all of our members, lost.

leadership, lost a facility, lost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And coming out of the pandemic, having not preached live for two years, the Lord was dealing with my wife and I about changing the name of our ministry.

But I couldn't find a name, and we're just praying about it.

And so we was in a staff meeting, and there was a consultant in that meeting.

And we had like 30 names on the board of what we was thinking was going to name the church.

And the consultant, he pushed back from the table and he said, man, listen,

when I think about your preaching and when I think about about what I'm hearing coming out of your mouth, I think I have a name that fits your church.

And he said,

what about your name, your ministry, 2819, like from the verse, the Great Commission.

And at first, I thought that was a very ridiculous thing to say.

I was saying, man, this is the stupidest thing I've ever said.

Nobody's going to name their church a number.

And we just wrote it on the board.

And the longer we stared at that name, And we prayed about that name, we can feel something shift in the room.

And for the first time, I felt like this is something I can stand on.

You know victory was cool but this name really concretizes what's in my heart.

It concretizes my core message and I said to my wife I think this is what we need to do and so six months later we changed the name to 2019 in January of 23.

And we whiteboarded everything.

We got rid of everything from Victory Church.

We completely started over with 183 disciples in January of 2023.

And so I feel like that name has given us, at least for my church, our staff, and our teams, and the people who gather under the banner, I feel like what it has given us is a core sense of identity.

It reminds us of the final words of Jesus.

It reminds us that we do not exist to play around.

We're not just gathering to have Sunday morning services.

No, we are people that want to be serious about the Great Commission.

We want to be serious about the proclamation of the gospel.

We want to be serious about the harvesting of souls.

We want to be serious about the multiplying of disciples.

There is nothing else happening right now in the earth that's more important than the great commission of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And so I feel like what that name did for us was give our church a sense of identity.

And every time we name that name, it reminds everybody of the vision that Jesus gave, not just to 2019.

The vision he gives to all of us who are followers of Christ.

We all have been given that mission.

And so it changed everything.

And we saw God just breathe on the ministry and breathe on the church.

And what we're doing right now is doing our best to,

for lack of a better terms, trying to

steward

what I believe is a revival happening in Atlanta.

And we're just trying to be faithful to steward that to the best of our ability.

We feel like

Jesus is building something and we're doing our best to steward what he is building.

If that makes sense, right?

And we're not owners of it.

I'm not an owner of it.

I am a servant in 2019.

I am a steward of 2019.

And I just want to do my best to honor the Lord Jesus Christ

with the ministry he's entrusted to me.

I want to be able to give a good account when I see him.

And that's what I'm trying to do right now.

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So you have such an incredible story.

You're originally from the Queens, New York, and you used to actually deal drugs and come from a lot of darkness and a lot of brokenness.

You were a Rikers inmate.

And now you pastor

and lead a body of people and you do such such an incredible job and your ministry is incredibly pure and holy in a time where like hype man pastors are in and relatability is in.

And it's like, I'm just so excited to talk about all that.

But can you just tell us a little bit about your background, your story, that encounter that you had in the bathroom that changed your whole life?

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

So you lived in the Bronx for a little while, right?

Angie and from Queens, New York.

And, you know, anybody who's familiar with my story, I mean, they know this background.

My family were immigrants from the island of Trinidad.

I was the first person in my family born in the U.S.

My parents were believers.

I was not.

So I was raised in a Christian home.

I seen my parents praying and reading the word.

And so I always believed in God, but just did not have a relationship with the Lord.

For myself, I feel like my environment outside of my home had a stronger pull on my soul than what my parents taught me.

And I spent the majority of my life until age 24 in the street and involved in every manner of darkness that is very possible.

And I regret all of that.

You know, I don't take no glory and pleasure in my time in the street or the lives I damaged or the people I hurt while I was out there.

But I was living a delusion, the delusion that the enemy fed me,

the delusion that the enemy is feeding people right now all across society.

I saw no hope.

I saw nothing beyond the street.

I never thought about the next day.

I only lived for the day that I was in.

I had no concept of the future and I had no hope beyond

the day I was in.

And for all of the external trappings of worldly success, you know, I had a beautiful girlfriend and you know, I had a luxury car.

And, you know, I had an apartment and house.

I had money and, you know, sold drugs and all those things.

I was empty on the inside.

And I knew that something was missing.

I just could not put my finger on what was missing.

And so, like so many people right now who, you know, we are praying and believing for, I'm trying to medicate all of that with drugs and with alcohol and with partying and with women and all the things.

And

none of those things will satisfy, right?

And we learn over time, at least on this side of the kingdom, that these things are

temporary and they betray, right?

All these things betray.

Everything we think is going to satisfy the soul more than the Lord Jesus Christ will betray you, right?

So material things will betray us.

And those things betrayed me.

I thought I would find...

satisfaction in them, but they betrayed me.

I thought I would find happiness in them, but they betrayed me.

I thought I would find identity in them, but they betrayed me.

And so they left me empty.

And in a season of feeling suicidal, you know, I don't know if I can talk like that.

Yeah, please.

In a season of feeling very suicidal,

very empty,

I had come to my apartment one day and

was feeling very, very

hopeless.

I remember pulling out a shotgun and I was sitting on the floor with a shotgun on my lap and I didn't have the courage to pull the trigger and so you know I got a bottle of alcohol and I drank that alcohol until I was drunk and I remember raising the barrel of that shotgun to my chin and at that time I used to have locks and this young lady used to twist my locks.

She was a believer.

And I would sit in her chair and she would talk to me about the word of God and I would ignore everything she said.

But for whatever reason, by God's divine providence, she came to visit my house that night.

She came to my apartment and my door was unlocked.

And I could see it now when she walked through the door and she saw me sitting on the floor with that shotgun and tears in my eyes.

And she walked over to me and she sat down next to me and she held my hand and she didn't say one word, right?

It was like just a ministry of presence.

She didn't say one word, but her presence talked me off the ledge.

And I put that shotgun down and she and I, we sat there and we just wept together and we didn't say any words and she would end up leaving.

And sometime after that, in the same season, within a couple months or so,

I'm living with my girlfriend.

At the time, we moved into an apartment and

she gets into this car accident and she comes home and

she had some, you know, semblance of Christianity, but she was still in the world.

And she comes home from that car accident and she puts on gospel music.

And it was the first time in my life I'd ever heard gospel music.

And she's worshiping the Lord and thanking him for protecting her in that car accident.

And as I'm watching her walk back and forth, praising God, she had her hands lifted in the air.

I had this thought in my mind that I know had to have been the grace of God.

I said to myself, whatever that is in her, I want that for myself.

And so I crawl into that bathroom on my hands and knees and I started yelling at God and not really knowing that he existed beyond what my parents told me.

God met me in that bathroom in a very strong and powerful way.

And

I didn't have any framework or language at the time for what happened, but I knew something had happened in my heart.

I knew that my tears of sorrow became tears of peace.

I knew that I felt God's presence in that bathroom.

And the evidence that something had changed in my heart was that night I went into our bedroom to try to have sex with my girlfriend.

And for the first time, I felt convicted for sin.

It was the very first time in my life I felt convicted for sin.

And I knew that something had transpired in my heart.

And so I began to sleep on the couch for six months until Lena and I got married.

And that really started the journey for me into the kingdom of God.

So I feel like God came.

I love him because I feel like.

He came and got me personally

for himself.

And this is no shade to anybody's story.

If somebody's walked the aisle or

they heard the gospel and

praise God for that, I call people to repentance.

I think about all the times I've

all the times I could have been lost.

I think about

I Think about all the times I could have been lost.

The bullet that grazed my right ear

and could have hit me in the back of my head.

The car accident I've been in.

The times I've drove home drunk from the club.

I just think about all the times I could have been clipped.

Beef in the streets.

Shot at in the club.

I've been shot at like three times, right?

And so I just think about

i think about all the times i could have been lost before that day in the bathroom and uh and where i would have been

you know and i think like

for whatever reason god was gracious towards me when i was far away from him when i was his enemy he was gracious towards me you know and

when i was a blasphemer you know he was gracious towards me and

When I mocked his church, you know, when I mocked Christianity, he was gracious towards me.

When I was in the nation of Islam, he was gracious towards me.

You know, he kept me all the years while I was out there being a blasphemer and ignorant

until he won me to himself.

And so when I think about that encounter in the bathroom, when I think about my early failures in Christianity, when I think about

what the scripture says about the Lord Jesus Christ, that he is long-suffering and that he's kind and that he is merciful and he's patient and that he is loving

that he came and got me for himself

I just think very deeply about that often you know and it takes nothing for me to just get a flashback of where I was and where he rescued me from and

you know I say to these guys a lot of time and to people in our church I feel like God came and got me from the dirt like I was trash And I feel like he got me from the trash.

He picked me up from trash.

I was nothing.

I still am nothing apart from him.

And that's why just everything in my heart, you know,

I want to just,

I want to be pleasing to him with every ounce of my being, right?

You know, I even,

you know, people might think I'm weird for this, but, you know,

like these guys are driving me here today.

I'm sitting in the back seat and I'm looking out.

the window and I'm staring at the clouds and

I'm thinking to myself like

one day I'm going to see him, right?

I'm going to be beyond these clouds.

I'm going to see him.

I'm going to have an opportunity to thank him for how he rescued me.

I'm going to have an opportunity to lay my crown at his feet.

I'm going to have an opportunity to stumble into his arms.

And

I'm going to have an opportunity to

see my labors.

be rewarded, my persecutions be rewarded, my sufferings be rewarded.

You know, that is the day I'm looking forward to more than anything.

More than a platform.

More than a big Instagram following.

More than a bag or a dollar amount.

You know, the thing I look forward to more than anything in this life is the day I'm going to see my Savior.

I look forward to that more than anything.

There is nothing in me right now that is more satisfying

than just intimacy with him and and wanting to see him and i actually look forward to that day right and so

and so just you know

just asking me that question when i think about it every time i have to recount that story

i just feel a little overwhelmed you know for where i know i i should have been or could have been that makes sense yeah so good

and i love that you talk about that because

you don't sit in the shame like you sit.

You understand the love of God.

I think so many people that listen, they stay stuck because of their past.

They feel like they're too far gone.

Do you agree with that?

I do.

I do agree with that.

And I think the enemy does a good job of persecuting us

without shame, you know.

And I think some of that too.

Some of that too, Ari, is our biblical illiteracy, right?

I think it's our lack of having sound biblical theology.

A lot of believers don't have a good hermeneutic for dealing with suffering and shame from the past.

And so if we don't have a good hermeneutic for dealing with the shame of the past,

we would not see the cross as enough.

You know, and so y'all ladies have a background.

Y'all have a past.

You have, I've heard you say, both of y'all have come from darkness just the same.

And you know the love of Jesus just the same.

And you know the pardon of Jesus just the same.

And you ladies know the word and I think about so many people who who God rescues the Lord brings them into the kingdom but they don't have a good hermeneutic for how to deal with their past or they're not sitting under good biblical teaching that teaches them how to deal with their past and so

the enemy is going to do his job persecuting our soul he's going to do his job constantly reminding us of the past I mean In Greek, one of his names is to me.

He's the accuser of the brethren, right?

And so we saw how he stood before the Lord and accused Job, right?

And so he knows he's going to stand before the Lord and he's going to accuse us and he's going to try to constantly remind us of who we were and what we did.

And

even in the kingdom, the failures that we have made and the mistakes that we have made, he's going to constantly keep reminding of those things.

And

for the believer, we have to have a hermeneutic

of the power of the cross

and what Christ accomplished on the cross.

And we have to believe in our hearts that the blood is enough and will always be enough to fully pay for my sins and my mistakes and my past,

both before Christ and with Christ.

We got to have enough confidence that the blood was not enough and to just live forever

in our shame, I almost think is an offense against the cross.

It is almost to say,

your sacrifice is not enough to pay for what I did.

And I've struggled with this personally, if I could be transparent.

And then what we do is we go on condemning ourselves.

and persecuting ourselves.

And maybe there's even somebody watching right now that just needs to be reminded to to forgive themselves, right?

That if Christ has forgiven you, you can forgive yourself.

If he has pardoned you, you can forgive yourself.

If you are under the cross, you can forgive yourself.

And that the blood is enough.

And I think not only do we need a good hermeneutic,

but I also think we need good biblical community that allows us to confess our sins and our shame.

And we need people around us who love us enough to give us a safe space to be honest about the things of our past.

I think there is a great damage in the kingdom of God.

And that is, I feel like we live in a culture that is so masked with a veneer of false perfection that you almost can't be honest about the fact that I am struggling or I came from something.

And because modern Christianity, I would go so far as to say Western Christianity, which I disdain.

Western Christianity creates this veneer of perfection on the outside that makes it so difficult for people to just be honest.

It comes from our idolatry of pastors and our idolatry of leaders and our believing that everybody's perfect.

Like no one has a story, no one has a background, no one has made a mistake, no one has fallen into sin.

So because we put on this veneer, it makes it difficult for people who I call

silent sufferers

to find spaces for them to just say,

I'm struggling with shame, or

I'm struggling with some sin, or I'm struggling with memories from my past.

It's hard for us to do that.

So I feel like when we don't have a proper verbical hermeneutic of the power of the cross and the blood, and when we don't have biblical community where we can be honest and transparent, and where we don't have brothers and and sisters who know how to honor the words of what Paul wrote to the church in Galatians in Galatians 6 1 how we should deal with one another and a type of mutual grace and gentleness we've seen people trapped in these things if we don't have those things then it's going to be very difficult for people to overcome their shame they will they will sit in dark spaces and let the devil and their flesh persecute them for things the Lord has forgiven them for.

And so

I think we need to be reminded of the power of the the cross.

We need a solid theology and biblical hermeneutic for what the cross has done for us.

And I think we need good biblical community and people around us who love us, who allow us the space to be able to confess and find that freedom.

Wow.

What does hermeneutic mean?

It's just a proper study of the scriptures.

Love it.

Right?

It's the proper study of the scriptures.

And I feel that what we have today is we have an increase in biblical illiteracy.

And at the same time, we have an increase in poor teaching from the pulpits.

And when you bring these two together, what we have is an emerging generation of believers who don't know the scriptures.

And a lot of them have created a Jesus in their mind that does not exist

and a God that does not exist.

And one of the things I see happening is that I feel like sometimes we blame the people sitting in the chair for that.

You know, we use this passage.

You ladies know this passage where it says we should study to show ourselves approved,

you know, a worker who need not be ashamed, but rightly dividing the word of truth.

And we kind of throw that on the entire body of Christ and say everybody should be a theologian, right?

I don't know if God intended for everyone to be a theologian.

He did intend for us to know his word, but I don't think he intended for everyone to be a theologian.

And I think in context,

who wrote that?

Paul, right?

right?

In context, who did Paul write that to?

Timothy.

In context, who was Timothy?

The pastor of a church in the city of Ephesus.

He gave a pastor

an instruction to study those scriptures thoroughly.

And then he would go on to give that same pastor another instruction.

Watch.

Preach.

the word.

Not preach opinions.

Not preach man-made doctrines.

not preach traditions of men.

Study the scriptures, preach the word.

So I think when we look at the culture of where the Western church is, I think myself and

the spiritual leaders and pastors and shepherds, I think we have to take some measure of accountability for the pulse of the Christian culture.

And so when I talk about having a proper hermeneutic of the cross and all things,

I think it's on us, the shepherds of our time, to properly feed God's sheep in such a way that they would properly understand the scriptures and who Christ is and what he's accomplished for us.

and his return.

It's on us to properly feed God's people these things and to not condemn them for what they don't know solely, but to also take some accountability for what we're not teaching.

And so

I think where the scriptures are not known

and where people are not going to study for themselves

and where shepherds are not taking the onus to teach the word, we just have an emergent generation of believers who have a concept of God and of Christ

and of the kingdom that is just not

factual.

And as a result,

they persecute themselves, they persecute others

and we have a Christianity that is disconnected from the orthodoxy of the scriptures and and I just pray we would see a revival and a turnaround in that area that's why I love

that's why I love listening to y'all too on your podcast right one of the things I love so much

about your podcast is that every time

I lean in to you ladies and I listen, I hear just scriptures pouring out of y'all.

I hear the Bible just pouring out of you.

It's like the word of God has been tattooed to your hearts.

And when I listen to y'all talk, let me tell you what I don't hear, right?

I don't hear opinions.

I don't hear man-made traditions.

I don't hear warped theology.

What I hear is two women.

who have come from darkness themselves, who recognize the deep work that Jesus has done in their hearts through his saving work,

who recognize who they are in Christ, who have found a deep love in the word, and who are constantly pouring out the word.

Even when y'all are not saying the scripture says, or even when you're not quoting a verse, I hear the word of God pouring out of y'all, pouring out of you.

So it just makes sense to me why God would pour out his favor.

on your podcast.

It makes sense to me why God is raising up y'all voices in the culture.

It makes sense to me why your tour is completely tearing up the country right now.

It makes sense to me why people are streaming to the altar and shedding tears.

It just makes sense to me why God's hand is upon y'all so much because y'all are being trusted.

And I feel like God is trusting y'all because you are honoring his son and you are honoring his word.

And y'all are almost

like this morning, I don't know when this podcast would air,

but at the time of this recording, I made a post this morning and I said, you know, I was praying for the church and I was shedding tears in my prayer time.

And as I was praying for the church, you know, I got up from my prayer time and I posted on my on my feeds and I said, you know, I'm praying for an awakening for the church.

And then I said, Lord, I pray.

That we would all be like the sons of Issachar

who rightly discerned the times and they knew what to do about it and when i listen to you ladies talk i feel like y'all are like the daughters of issues y'all have rightly discerned the times and y'all know what to do about it that's why you're not using your platform for foolishness that's why you're not using your platforms for game playing that's why your platform is holy It's pure.

It's Christ exalting.

It's full of the word.

It's full of humility.

And I feel like God is breathing on it because it is necessary right now in the culture.

Like right now, as I'm talking to you, right?

Like, like this clock right here.

Like, this clock that's counting down on us right now.

I mean, there's a clock on humanity,

right?

There is a clock

on humanity

and is counting backwards

it's gonna hit zero

and at that time there will be no more second chances yeah we talk about that there will there will be no more lord i did not know yes

there will be no more excuses

when that clock hits zero

And the Lord cracks the sky.

When that clock hits zero, it will will be, he's not coming back like the baby in the manger to,

you know, to play around.

No, he's coming back to make war.

And he's coming back to settle everyone's account.

Right?

And if we are not using the time we have now to try to warn

and awaken as many human beings as possible,

then what are we using our time for?

And so when I listen to your podcasts, when I listen to Ari and Angie speak, I hear two women who are like the daughters of Issachar,

who understand the times and your voices.

God is using your voices to awaken as many people as possible before time has run out.

And that's like...

Why even you and I, when we first connected in the DMs and we're having all these gospel conversations and I'm telling you I'm praying for you and Angie and you're saying you know Philip I'm praying for you in 2019 we having these gospel conversations and what I'm sensing from you and what I'm sensing from your partner okay these two women they have been burned right like here are two women they have been burned by the fires of God

These are kindred spirits.

I have not met them, but these are my sisters.

These women are among the remnant.

These women are among the 7,000 who haven't bowed their knees to Baal.

Or these are the women who are among those whose God has anointed their voices for the times we live in.

Because right now, what we need is to be awakened.

We need Christ to be exalted.

We need the scriptures to be honored.

We need the Lord to be made holy.

Colossians 1,

right?

Verse 28.

Him we proclaim,

warning everyone

and teaching everyone

with all wisdom that we may present everyone mature

in Christ.

I'm going to say before he comes, right?

If we're not busy doing that, then we are wasting our time.

And that's why, you know,

I just celebrate what y'all are doing.

You know, and I'm going to tell y'all this night that we're here together for the first time in person.

I'm going to tell y'all, I shed tears over y'all.

I do.

True story.

I shed tears over y'all ladies.

I literally have put tears on my carpet, on my face for y'all ladies.

I have put my face to the carpet and I've shed tears over y'all.

I have cried out to God

immensely for y'all.

I have prayed.

That God will put a hedge of protection around y'all relationship.

I have prayed that God would protect your ministry.

I have prayed that God would elevate your voices.

I have prayed that God would continue to pour out on your divine favor.

I have prayed that God would keep y'all humble and pure.

I have prayed that God would protect y'all from being led astray.

I have prayed that God would keep y'all from being led astray by dangling carrots.

And people will say, oh, if you do this for money, we'll come do that.

I have prayed that God would just keep his hands on y'all because the culture needs your voices.

Thank you.

The culture needs your voices.

The culture needs this podcast.

You know, when I think about my daughters, this is what I want them watching.

Right?

When I think about my daughters, I got two teenage daughters who I love, Israel and Abigail.

This is the content I want them watching.

You are the voices I want them listening to.

The type of voices I want them listening to.

And so

when I just think about even this moment we're having right now where we're sitting together in person for the first time, you know, and I think about

the amount of spiritual work i've done in my prayer closet on y'all behalf right

and gonna continue to do because

can i just like talk freely or am i talking too much no please are you kidding me we don't want to say anything

when i think about

when i think about um

when i think about how the culture is saturated with so many many voices.

Right.

And how some of these voices Satan has planted to lead people astray.

This is what Jesus taught us in the parable of the wheat and the tears.

In his parabolic teaching, he has taught us that Satan has planted people in the earth

who operate on behalf of the devil.

And they're doing everything they can to lead people astray away from God and

so when I think about the amount of voices in the culture that are leading people astray

how much more valuable it is when God has anointed voices in that culture that he has set apart and assigned to be heralds in this dark hour right

And against

all of the winds of adversity of the culture and the winds of adversity, of persecution and social persecution, and if it may come in the United States, physical persecution.

Even if we may have to suffer like our brothers and sisters outside the United States,

I think it's very valuable when God has anointed a voice for a generation.

And I recognize them.

And in my humility, I want to cry out for them with the same intensity that I pray for my own voice and that I pray for my own ministry.

And so

I am not 2819 selfish.

No, you're not.

Right.

That's not my heart.

Right.

I am all of 2819.

And Girls Gone Bible, like I'm all of 2019 and Ari and Angie.

I'm all of 2819 and any other voice that God has anointed for the hour that we're in.

And I'm going to cry out and pray for them with the same earnest fervor that I'm crying out and praying for my own ministry and praying for my enemies because I know that time is running out.

Wow.

Right.

So, and just to sit here and look at y'all in your eyes and know, man, these are, y'all are my sisters.

Right?

Like y'all are my

y'all are my sisters, right?

And I feel like

y'all are my co-laborers in the gospel, right?

And that we get to do this,

right?

And we get to do this and not take it for granted and not treat it like a game and it's not fluff, right?

And people may not understand that now and they may, you know,

you know, have what they need to say now, but in the end, the Lord is going to reveal who was real

and who was not.

He's going to reveal who was his chosen and who was not.

And ours is to stay on that wall and be serious about the proclamation of God's word.

And that's what y'all are doing.

You know, and I just celebrate y'all for that.

God is so kind.

That's

one of the

most special things about you, Philip, is this.

The way you love his people.

It's so rare.

It's so rare.

Your heart.

I see it.

How you are with his people.

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You talk so much about things that resonate with us so deeply.

And I think it's just such a, it's just the most important thing that we can be talking about is anti-prosperity gospel.

Like I'll just give you a little bit of my background.

So I live in LA, right?

And I'm going to LA churches and there are beautiful, amazing, spirit-filled churches in LA, obviously.

But something that I experienced for a while was I was so on fire for Jesus, like so on fire for Jesus.

I had no fear of the Lord, none, because I'd show up to church and I would get a TED talk hyped up, like God's got your back, he's on your side.

Where is death to self?

Where is crucify your flesh?

Like, where are the things that actually lead you into a fully surrendered and submitted life?

And where is

the holiness?

Like, this is what I think we notice so much: is that like

relatability, right?

Everybody talks about relatability in the church, but what they don't understand is relatability comes from you being open about your brokenness, you being open about your struggles.

That's relatability.

Not wearing specific outfits or talking like culture does or acting like culture does or watering down the gospel.

That's not relatability.

People relate to Ari and I not because we look like the rest of the world, but because we're open about our struggles.

And that's what you do.

And so, yeah, can we talk about how church is not supposed to be hypey and fun?

It's supposed to be sacred and holy.

And we actually don't need pastors to try and relate to us on like a surface level.

We need reverence and we need holiness because I can walk into church and I don't even need to hear a message about not having sex outside of marriage.

But if it's just an atmosphere of reverence, if the Holy Spirit is there, he convicts you regardless of if it's being talked about or not.

So can we talk about that?

Yeah,

I think, well, first off, I think that's very, very powerful, right?

And I think that there may be people who would try to give us pushback about that.

And I will say to the person who gives pushback about what you just shared, Angie, is this, is that

there would be an argument for different expressions of church on a Sunday morning.

And

I get that, right?

I know that we have different expressions.

But the blanket argument I would make is, is how close are we to what we see in the scriptures, right?

I think the purest

model of church and its purest expression has to go beyond a Philip Anthony Mitchell,

beyond Angie, beyond Ari, beyond churches in LA, LA, beyond churches in Atlanta.

The purest expression we have to go to is back to the book of Acts when the church was born.

And if we just go back to that pure expression, I feel like this is where we have to find some semblance of unity around the pure expression of the church.

Right now, there's going to be widespread disagreements about expression, and we probably would never come to a place of unity in terms of expression.

But I feel like if we would get close to unity in terms of expression, we have to be honest about the foundation of what Jesus intended.

So we got to go back to the book of Acts.

And if we go back to the book of Acts, myself, every pastor, all of us, we have to take a look at that.

And we have to be honest about how far away have we moved from that.

The original church was born of fire.

It was born of prayer.

I mean, a group of disciples spent 10 days in a room praying and seeking God.

And so it was born of prayer.

It was born of fire.

It was born of intensity.

The first Christian message ever preached was rooted in the scriptures.

It was rooted in sound doctrine and theology.

We did not see Peter that day stand up and preach his opinions.

He did not preach articles from Josephus.

He did not preach all these things.

He stood up and he preached the word.

of God.

He exalted the Christ.

He called sinners to repentance.

He called men to turn from their sin.

It did not back away from the culture.

And what do we see

as a result of his proclamation?

We see revival break out in the streets of Jerusalem, right?

And then we see the church grow from 120 disciples to 3,120 disciples.

This is important.

So we know that, man, a church can be small with 120 and be pure.

It could be large with 3,120 and still be pure.

And so now this large church now, and then we see this beautiful expression of the church, Acts chapter 2, verse 42 to 47.

And they devoted themselves

to the apostles' teaching.

Not to just traditions,

not to just opinions, not just the stuff we're reading on social media.

They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching,

to prayer,

to fellowship and community,

to generosity.

They're gathering small to keep each other accountable and community.

They're gathering large for biblical proclamation instruction.

Watch.

They're meeting in homes, right?

Because that's all they had.

They're meeting in the temple courts.

where they know they're around unbelievers.

So there is evangelism.

There is a focus on the unbeliever.

And in its most purest form, how does God respond to that?

And the Lord is adding to that church daily those who are being saved.

And so when I listen to you talk, Angie, what I'm hearing in your heart, right, is a longing for that pure expression of what Jesus gave us, right?

Jesus, through the power of the Holy Spirit working through the apostles, gave us the purest expression of what he wanted his church to be.

And for all of our arguments about expression and what we should be doing, I think we can agree on the model we see in the book of Acts.

And although very early in Christianity, within the first decade into the first century, we see the infiltration of worldly doctrines and different type of theologies and false prophets and all these things invading the church.

And so very early on, the church gets corrupted.

And since then, it has been corrupted.

But if we would all just be honest with ourselves, all of us, we got to go back to Acts and say, this is what Christ wanted.

And this is what we should fight for.

This is what we should be striving for.

We should strive for a church where the teachings of the scriptures.

We are devoted to the teachings of the scriptures.

We are devoted to prayer.

We are devoted to community and not isolation.

We are devoted to evangelism.

We are devoted to generosity and not selfishness.

We are devoted to these things and we are devoted to caring about the unbeliever.

They are not our enemies, right?

We are devoted to them.

And if we would be devoted to these things, have fidelity to these things, have loyalty to these things.

Then in every city around America, we can see Jesus pouring out his spirit on houses of worship.

We can see the Lord stepping in to breathe on houses of worship, right?

It's like 2019 is not the model.

What we see in book of acts is the model and all we're doing at 2019 is just trying to follow the model we see in the book of acts right so nobody should just exalt us as the model so when i when i hear your cry angie i'm thinking man i hear a cry for the model and the reason i hear a cry for the original model is because you have a deep intimacy with jesus And because you have a deep intimacy with Jesus, your spirit cries out for what the Lord gave us.

You see that?

Because the Lord is so alive in your your heart.

You naturally yearn for what he gave us, right?

You're yearning for the water that he gave us.

You're yearning for the purity of what he gave us.

And although the church will always have challenges, this is a glorious gospel mess.

We have to fight for the purity of what Jesus gave us.

He gave us the model.

He gave us the blueprint.

He gave us the playbook on what we should look like.

And all we got to is run that play in our various cities and contexts, right?

And trust Jesus to build his church while we be good stewards of his word and his instruction from his spirit and be good stewards of the souls that he's entrusting to us.

That's all we can do.

We have no control over the rest.

So when I listen to

When I listen to you talk about L.A.,

the same thing is happening in New York.

The same thing is happening in in Atlanta and in Chicago and in Houston and in Dallas is happening all across the country.

And my prayer is

that there will be a mass

revival of repentance

and a return to gospel proclamation,

fidelity to the scriptures.

to prayer as our dependency upon God, to our fight for biblical community,

our love for the unbeliever, our seriousness about evangelism and the spread of the gospel, where we would give grace to each other for non-essentials.

We would be united around all of the essentials and we would strive to honor the last instruction that God gave us, that great commission.

If we could just return to that, I think something can shift in our nation.

Something has to

shift in our nation.

Has to.

Thank you.

Can we stay on the instructions of following his word?

One of the things Angela and I are so passionate about is

laying your life down in sin.

And it's one of my favorite teachings

that you teach.

Oh, the urgency of it.

Can you talk about it?

Can you talk about sin?

Can you talk about, I mean...

Some people, I mean, we were living in ignorance for a long time, but when you know better, you do better.

And so many Christians are just picking and choosing what they want to follow in the Bible.

Yes.

And they're in continual sexual sin.

And they think, well, God, Jesus loves me.

And can you also talk about grace?

Yes.

The difference between grace and truth, grace and sin.

Yes, absolutely.

I think that's a powerful question.

And I think it's a timely question for where we are right now in society.

And I would even go so far as to say, Ari, I think that is probably at at the center of one of the things right now I feel is poisoning the church the most.

It is both our knowingly and unknowingly compromise and dishonor of God in the church.

And here's what I want to say.

And I want to be very careful how I present this.

The scripture teaches us that God came preaching Jesus in in grace and truth.

Grace and truth.

I think we have to have both.

I think

what has happened in the church in the West is that there has been an overemphasis of grace

and there's been a watering down of the truth.

And I think when the culture only hears teachings on grace

simultaneously while there is a watering down of truth.

It creates a desensitization in our hearts to the holiness of God,

where we think that because he is gracious,

we can do Christianity and live lives of immorality and sin and debauchery and licentiousness.

And we think that because he's gracious, that he is comfortable with that.

And I think some of that is because of what we're hearing in the culture, right?

And we even look at like the woman who was caught in the act of adultery, right?

How the Jesus dealt with her with grace.

He did not condemn her, but he did not condone what she was doing either.

And I think if we don't have an understanding of the holiness of God

and his hatred for sin,

we would think that it is okay for me to name the name of Christ and then live a duplicitous life of licentiousness at the same time.

I think this is an offense of the cross.

I think it dishonors God.

And I think if we are truly growing in biblical maturity,

we will grow to the point,

and this is where I am,

where sin hurts you.

Yes.

And they might not like this part of the podcast.

Please.

We love it.

All right.

Whenever I talk like this, I get accused for being self-righteous.

And I want people to understand that I fight everything in my heart to be self-righteous.

Not to say I've never struggled with that, but I repent.

And I don't talk about holiness because I am perfect.

And I don't talk about holiness because I've never made a mistake.

And I don't talk about holiness because in my Christian walk, I've never made a mistake.

I have made mistakes in my Christian walk.

I have hurt people in my Christian walk.

I have hurt Jesus in my Christian walk.

I have done things in my Christian walk I'm not proud of.

I'm talking about like the early days of my Christian walk, right?

Before my heart was burned.

When I talk about holiness,

I talk about holiness because I know the pain of sin.

I know the consequences of sin.

I know the damages of sin, both to my soul and to others.

And I know how it grieves the heart of the Lord.

As an earthly father of four children, when I see my children do wrong, it brings pain to my heart because I want them to do right.

And so our heavenly father is grieved when we name the name of Christ, but we watch this word, choose.

Choose.

Choose.

Not I just fell or made a mistake.

Well, I willfully choose to live in sin and rebellion that grieves the heart of God.

And if we are growing in Christian maturity, watch, if we're growing in intimacy with Christ.

If we're growing in the knowledge of his word, there is no way we would be able to enjoy sin.

You cannot be intimate with Christ and sin and go to sleep and it not bother you.

I just do not believe that.

I do not believe you can have a deep, intimate, personal relationship with Christ, be full of his word, full of his spirit, and growing in maturity and then sin and sleep and it not bother you.

I just don't know how that is possible.

I think the closer we get to Christ, if he is a consuming fire,

then the closer we get to him, the more he will be burning these things out of us, right?

If he is a consuming fire, you cannot touch fire and remain the same.

It is not possible.

If you touch fire, it would change.

Whatever it touches, it changes.

You put your skin in there, it's going to be changed.

You put your hand in there, it's going to be changed.

So you cannot play with fire and remain the same.

So if he is a consuming fire,

If he has eyes of fire, if I'm staring into his eyes, if I'm drawing near to him in prayer, if I'm drawing near to him in his word, if I'm drawing near to him, if I'm getting closer to him in my walk, the closer I get to him, that fire is going to burn things off of me.

And one of the things that fire should be burning off of us is a love for sin and debauchery and licentiousness and all these things that we know grieves his heart.

Because if you love someone, you do not want to keep hurting that person.

That's right.

Right?

Yeah.

You don't want to keep hurting the person that you love.

And so, and so

when I think wrong,

Philip Anthony Mitchell,

I feel grieved.

If I have have a lustful thought,

I feel grieved.

If I have a jealous thought,

I feel grieved.

If I have ill will towards my enemies, I feel grieved.

If I have a thought that passes through my mind against my wife or my kids or another brother or sister, I feel grieved.

If I say something I know that's not right, I feel grieved.

If I make a mistake in the pulpit or if I come down from preaching a sermon, I say, man, I didn't do that right.

I feel grieved.

Every time I know I hurt the heart of my Savior,

I feel grieved.

And what that does, it keeps driving me back to the foot of the cross,

back to the cross,

back to his presence,

back to that deep well of repentance.

Watch.

And that's where grace is enjoyable.

Where grace should not be enjoyable is while I'm wiling out and I'm living reckless in sin and I'm licentious and I'm living in debauchery and I'm a rebel against God and I'm just saying well he's gracious no that's and that's not where grace should be enjoyed that's where grace is being abused and taken for granted and that's where grace has been mistaught grace has not been given to us for us to live a life of sin grace has been given to us to pardon us so that we can stand in the presence of God

because of the blood of Jesus and be declared righteous because of the blood of Jesus.

That's what grace has been given us for.

Grace has been given so we don't end up eternally separated from God.

But grace has not been given for us to have a life of sin and rebellion.

It has not been given.

For Paul teaches us, man, that in Romans chapter 6,

symbolically, we've died with Christ, we've been raised with Christ to live a new life.

John teaches us that no one who claims the name of Christ can continue to go on living in sin.

Peter teaches us that we should be holy as your Father in heaven is holy.

I mean, this is all in the Word of God, right?

So we either have a cultural Christianity or we have a biblical Christianity.

This is the issue right now.

I agree.

It's like, okay,

tell me this.

So

when people,

like, what keeps coming to my head is mixture.

Like, there's just mixture.

Like, people, like, they love Jesus, but they can't for some, like, like, sure, the big sins, they're not having sex, all this stuff, but it's just mixture.

What do you do when just just the life isn't fully surrendered?

I have so many, I know so many people who like they love God, they do, but there are parts where maybe in the name of not being religious, in the name of not being legalistic, there's just mixture.

Like, there's one drop of impurity that contaminates the whole cup of water.

I think

that is a pervasive problem

in Christendom.

And I think we overcome that problem incrementally

as we journey towards intimacy with Christ.

So

you said something very powerful.

And I don't remember if you said it on camera or off camera when we were talking before we put on the cameras.

But

you may have said this on camera.

But you shared with me, Angie, you said.

that when you when you when you was first a believer because i was i asked you ladies how y'all met right and you told me you know your salvation experience your salvation and I think you said off camera that early in your walk you still you still had a little bit of worldiness there yeah but that was early in your walk right

but you're not the same woman

you're a completely different woman right

when I when I see you and when I listen to you talk on the pod

I see a woman who has been burned I see a woman who the Lord has placed his finger on your heart.

I see a woman who has walked with Jesus long enough to see him as holy and to love him with this depth of love where you just want to be pleasing to him in all of your ways.

That's what I see in you.

That's what I see in Ari, right?

And so what may have began for mixture for you has become more pure incrementally over time.

The closer you have got with Jesus, your heart has become more pure.

And I think for people right now who are watching and struggling with that mixture,

this area of darkness that they want to keep as a pet, or this sin that they want to keep as a pet, or these shelters that they make for sin,

our prayer for them

is that we want to pray that

the Lord would woo them in just a little bit more, right?

And that he would put hook and jaw and just reel them in just a little bit more, and that

they would begin to see him just a little bit more clearly, and

they would come just a little bit more closer.

And I think the closer they come,

the more lucid his image becomes to them.

The more lucid they see his heart.

The more lucid they see his ways.

And I think the more lucid they see him,

they see the sinfulness of their heart and then they have a natural desire.

to want to live holy.

This is the beautiful thing that happened with Isaiah, right?

When Isaiah saw the pre-incarnate Christ for who he was

Isaiah's response was not praying for a material thing he did not ask God for anything when Isaiah saw the pre-incarnate Christ in Isaiah chapter 6 how does Isaiah respond

woe is me the first thing Isaiah sees when he sees Christ

right see and this is the challenge if we don't see Christ right we won't see ourselves right.

That's right.

When Isaiah saw Christ right,

for the first time, he saw himself right.

And his response to the incarnate Christ was,

woe

is me, right?

And woe is my nation.

And I think if more followers would see Christ right,

our natural response would be woe is we would feel broken over our personal sinful behavior

and we would feel broken over the sinful patterns we see in the church and in the world and where that brokenness does not exist

for our own sinful patterns and for the sinful patterns of the world.

Where that brokenness does not exist, we probably

have not yet seen Christ right.

So we need scales to fall off of our eyes and we need our hearts to be burnt.

And when Isaiah saw Christ right and how did he see him?

He saw him as supremely holy

and it was the magnitude of the holiness of the pre-incarnate Christ that made this young prophet see himself right.

That's what we need in the church right now.

Wow.

That's what we need.

We need to see Christ right.

Can we stay on this for a minute and can you just talk about your intimacy with the Lord and how your heart burns for him?

Yeah.

Because it takes a lot of intimacy.

Can you get into that?

And for a new believer that's watching.

Yeah, I want to encourage somebody that's watching, right, to

not see

myself

or you ladies as

the standard, right?

Philip Anthony Mitchell is not the standard.

And

we are just three individuals who are pursuing Christ with all of our hearts.

For me,

in full transparency, I think

what I feel now and what I

experience now began with

it began with that encounter I had in Israel.

It began with that encounter I had in Israel.

Where through that encounter in Israel, for me at least,

was the moment for me, it was my Isaiah 6 moment.

Where through that encounter in Israel was the it was the moment for me when

I had my deepest revelation of the holiness of God.

And it was in that moment when I had that deep revelation of the holiness of God.

I felt the most brokenness for my sin.

And flying back to our nation at 17 hours from Tel Aviv is when I felt the most brokenness for our nation.

And that for me was the beginning of a journey.

of a deep pursuit of two things simultaneously

A pursuit of deep intimacy with Christ.

And at the same time, a pursuit of purity of heart.

And so,

I'm deep in Isaiah chapter 6,

but I'm also deep in Psalm chapter 24.

Psalm chapter 24, there's a powerful question there.

It's like, how many of us are willing to answer that question?

Who can ascend the hill of the Lord?

Who can ascend

the hill of the Lord?

Who can go up there?

The one who has clean hands and a pure heart, right?

And so if there's no ascent, right,

then our hands are still too dirty and our hearts are not pure, right?

And I think when Jesus said, blessed are the pure in heart, watch.

Watch.

When Jesus said, blessed are the pure in heart,

for they shall see God.

He was not talking about just physically seeing God, right?

He's preaching to people in the moment who have not seen God physically, right?

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

Blessed are those who are pursuing purity of heart.

They will have a greater vision

and revelation of the purity of who God is.

They will see Christ.

They will see the Father.

They will see God.

And the more we pursue purity of heart, the more we see God.

And the more we see God, the more our heart is burned.

And the more our heart is burned, the more things in this life does not matter.

And the more our heart is burned, the more we drift from sinful patterns, the more our heart is burned,

the more we drift from materialism, the more our heart is burned, the more we realize

how everything right now is fleeting

and temporary,

how it's all gonna come to an end.

And the more hearts are burned,

the more we find our deepest satisfaction in Christ.

We get to the point

where I am right now in my 40s.

I am at a place right now in my 40s where

an Instagram following is not going to satisfy me.

A platform is not going to satisfy me.

Preaching at a specific conference is not going to satisfy me.

A newer car is not going to satisfy me.

A bigger house is not going to satisfy me.

A certain dollar amount in salaries or earnings is not going to satisfy me.

No, no.

I am most satisfied with Christ.

I really am.

I am most satisfied with him.

When I listen to y'all talk,

I'm going to assume, and I believe my whole heart, y'all are most satisfied with him.

He is...

The greatest gift I will ever have.

There is nothing I will know in this life that's going to be more satisfying than him.

And

I would rather be

in my prayer room

than on a podcast,

than on a platform,

than on a stage,

than on a panel.

When I walk off the stage on Sunday mornings, I am thankful for the opportunity I get to proclaim his word

when I get in my car to drive home is when I feel the most satisfaction because it's just Christ and I

and I weep

and I talk to him

and I think about his word and

I think about what he and I are doing together and

and if only Ari and Andrew we could convince

more people

even the million people that follow you

the million people that follow this podcast if we could convince the million people that follow this podcast

to be most satisfied with Christ

just that just that one million

how much better

would the church be right If we could just do that.

That's all I'm trying to do, right?

That's all I'm trying to do.

I'm not trying to win people to myself.

I'm not trying to win people to.

I'm trying to win as many people as possible to Christ and to lead them in a deep, intimate, personal relationship with Him when they get to the place where they realize nothing is going to satisfy them more

than Christ, right?

And if we can do that,

then

we could change the church.

One person at a time,

ten people at a time,

a thousand people at a time, at 2819, maybe 5,000 people at a time

on this podcast, a million people at a time.

Hopefully we can change the country and the world, right?

That's...

We need intimacy with Christ.

Yeah, we do.

Can I ask you a question?

You can ask me anything you want.

Show podcast.

Thank you.

Yeah, just the journey of

purification

because

you have a heart that is so,

like, so pure towards ministry, so pure towards people.

But I imagine at some point in your life when you're young, in your 20s, 30s,

you're not.

you were not where you are now.

Far away.

Yeah, and I think like, for example, the past year of my life i've had so like that isaiah story just rocked me because over the past year i've had so many of those woe is me moments where like i feel like the lord has spoken and like called me to a place yeah and just like my heart breaks because i become so aware like i am so far yeah from where you want me to be yeah you know like and it's it's so painful it is and it's so beautiful because there's nothing more beautiful than god loving you enough to call you higher and call you to a more pure place in your heart but come on I guess my question is like on the journey because it's a journey every single one of us has so much impurity in our hearts and what I've noticed is like

You lay down the big sins.

You're not cussing anymore.

You're not drinking anymore.

You're not having sex anymore.

But then you realize there's so much deep-rooted sin that's so much harder to attack because it's like it comes out in every little day moments where it's like, oh, I shouldn't have said that.

Why am I feeling that way towards that person?

Those hidden sins of life.

Yeah.

I have comparison in my heart.

Like there's so many things that you're able to cover up, but that's what he wants.

I think that's, and so the journey and him purifying you and just like how to not condemn yourself when you have a woe-is-me moment, but and you realize like I'm not where he wants me to be.

I think, I think

I'm struggling with that too.

And I think we are going to struggle with that until we die because we will not be made perfect until crisis come.

And I love the fact that you're honest about that, both of you, and that you're vulnerable about that.

And I think that gives people hope.

And I think about, I see the pictures of how y'all have laid hands on women at altars as you've been on your tour all around the nation.

And I think about how your honesty and your transparency gives so many women and so many men just hope, especially when you guys are respected in culture.

And I think when you think about people like you who are respected in culture, but you're being honest about just sinful struggles and things of that nature, it gives people who are watching hope.

That, you know, if Ari and Angie is still struggling, then there is hope for me that I can struggle and still journey, right?

I think the challenge is not struggling, the challenge is yielding.

I think the bigger issue is when we yield.

I think struggling is glorious.

The back half of Romans chapter 7,

the Apostle Paul is confessing his struggle, right?

The thing I don't want to do,

I keep finding myself doing.

And what I want to do,

I don't do.

And here is the great Apostle Paul,

the writer of maybe two-thirds of the New Testament.

The man that we have all respected for the mysteries that God has given him.

And yet, as an older man in the faith, he is honest honest as he writes the back half of Romans chapter 7 that he is still struggling with some sin he does not tell us what it is he does not give it a name

he just says the man the thing I don't want to do I keep doing we don't know if it's external we don't know if it's something in his heart but that gives us hope that it is open right and so Paul is struggling right we are we are struggling but i think the beauty in the struggle is is when it hurts us right the beauty in the struggle is is when we feel grieved over it.

And the beauty in the struggle is, is that it is actually the love of the Father to keep punching me in my soul when I think wrong.

Right.

Like, right.

It is, it is the love of the Father to punch me in my soul when I think wrong,

when I do wrong,

when I live wrong, if I botch something in the pulpit in a sermon, it is the love of the Father through the power of the Holy Spirit and the conviction to punch me in my soul.

That is the love of the Father.

The most dangerous place to be in is when we are having sinful thoughts or having sinful patterns and we feel no conviction at all.

That is the most dangerous place to be in.

So I would even say to somebody watching, if you feel conviction for your sin,

you are in a good place.

If the Lord is punching you in your soul, you are in a good place.

If you're still having woe is me moments,

you are in a good place.

Because you're still journeying towards intimacy with Christ and being conformed and dealing with the ugliness of our soul that is in there.

The person I'm more concerned for, Angie, is a person who's watching this podcast, who claims the name of Jesus, who attends church, however,

who's wilding out in sin, going to sleep and feel no conviction at all.

That is the person I'm more concerned about.

I'm more concerned about that person based on your question because that person is coming for a rude awakening.

That person is going to die if they don't repent.

If they don't repent, they're going to die in their sin.

They're going to wake up in eternity, and they're going to stand before the one they claim they loved.

And he's going to say to them, he's going to hear them say, Lord, Lord,

did we not prophesy in your name?

and do podcasts in your name

and preach sermons in your name and sing songs in your name.

Do we not go to conferences in your name and read books in your name?

And we sip lattes and did Bible studies in your name.

And they're going to hear him say,

Depart from me.

You work of iniquity.

Watch the words, Jesus said, not you who made mistakes.

Not you who were struggling.

Isn't that what he said?

You worker of iniquity, you who enjoyed and took pleasure in the ongoing unrepentant practice of sin.

You, he's going to say, I never knew you.

Depart from me.

See, that is the most dreadful and terrible thing that any human being is going to hear.

And notice, he's not talking to the atheist.

He's not talking to the person who's in an alternate religion.

He's not talking to the person who was in Islam or the person who is a Hindu or the person who's a Buddhist or the person who's Nui.

He's not talking to that person.

He's not talking to the person that outright does not believe he doesn't exist.

Listen to who he's talking to.

He's talking to the person that calls him Lord.

He said, many will come to me that day and say, Lord, Lord.

Who's calling him Lord?

People who are quote unquote

followers, quote unquote, of Jesus.

People who claim to be Christians, who claim to say Jesus is my Savior and my Lord.

They have his name in their bio.

They may throw up a scripture every now and then on social media.

But they love

sinfulness and darkness.

If there's no repentance, there's going to be a rude awakening, right?

So there is a difference between

journeying towards Christ and struggling with sin and claiming the name of Christ and loving sin.

These are two different categories altogether.

For one, there is grace,

and for the other, there is temporary grace.

But when they die, that grace would have run out on them.

And then it would have been too late.

Now

is the hour for repentance.

So good.

That makes sense.

Yes.

So good.

Now is the hour for repentance.

He's.

Wow, I just I'm sorry.

I'm just like wow

Can I ask you something because one of the things we are experiencing with these kids is tormenting thoughts depression anxiety even I keep hearing so much infertility

And those are two different subjects, but

there just seems to be such an attack on the mind.

Can you talk to us about that?

I think there's a rise in suicidal ideation

and mental unhealth.

I think it's going to continue to increase.

I think a lot of it is spiritual.

A lot of it is cultural.

And a lot of it is because of

the generation we're living in right now

is the first generation in the history of the world in which we have windows into everyone's life

through social media.

And so there is an increase in comparison.

There is an increase in jealousy.

There is an increase in envy while you're watching everybody's highlight reels on social media.

While there is a decrease in vulnerability and honesty, we're watching everybody's life.

And so what that is creating in us is an addiction for an approval, an addiction for likes, a comparison with other people.

And so when you have all of this happening at the same time,

searches for affirmation, people pleasing, addiction for likes, windows of comparison.

demonic attacks against people's minds, a decrease in biblical proclamation.

You put all these things together, and then our easy access to all of these things on our phone.

And you put all these things together, you have a generation that is dealing with a lot of mental struggles.

Yeah.

Right?

I think we need to attack that spiritually and with God's word and sometimes with counseling.

But if we don't want to have a conversation about it, If we're so ashamed we don't want to talk about it, then people continue to be silent sufferers.

And I think there's a lot of silent sufferers because we feel like in the church we can't broach this conversation

we feel like it's awful sinful to say I have mental health issues

and because there's a stigma on it it's hard for people to find freedom but I could confess right can I right here on this podcast that I know what it is to preach for three years and battle with depression and be on medication for depression and come off a pulpit and drive home and feel ashamed that I'm preaching the gospel to people and driving home battling depression at the same time.

This is all of 2018, 2019, and 2020 going into the pandemic.

I'm preaching to my church and driving home battling depression.

I'm seeing a therapist.

I'm on medication and I'm feeling embarrassed as a result of that.

And I've never really talked about this publicly, but I felt embarrassed.

And I'm struggling with mental health and felt like, where can I get out?

Man, if I tell somebody this, how they're going to feel, the man of God is battling with mental issues, right?

So because of the shame and the stigma we attach to that,

a lot of us are doing ministry but struggling at the same time without knowing, man, there is freedom for that if we could just be honest with one another, to say that it is okay to serve Jesus and have mental struggles.

Because if we don't talk about it, we just stay bound in it right and even i was driving here i was just thinking about the power of just freedom like this word i have on my hat right now freedom and where there is honesty and where there is community and where there is biblical fidelity and where there is humility man we can help each other journey towards freedom is what we need right and i am finally not ashamed to say that i did ministry for three years and struggled struggled badly with depression at the same time.

Sitting in dark rooms, sometimes not wanting to live, wrestling with suicide and preaching at the same time.

I am not ashamed to confess that and watch.

And if someone listening right now, if they judge me for that, I'll take that.

And if they persecute me for that, I'll take that.

And if they call me a hypocrite, I'll take, I'll take all of that.

I'm just being honest.

I'll take all of that.

But you know who was with me in that?

Jesus.

You know who came alongside me and all of that?

Jesus.

You know who did not condemn me in all of that?

Jesus.

You know who did not make me feel ashamed and all of that?

Jesus.

You know who walked me out of that prison?

Jesus.

You know who worked through people to get me the help I needed?

Jesus.

You know who brought a godly counselor into my life?

Jesus.

You know who

has not weaponized that season?

Jesus.

The only person that tried to weaponize that against me is my adversary.

But Jesus has not condemned me.

So I will not allow men to condemn me.

And watch.

And if it's under the blood, it is now a weapon now for the gospel.

If it's under the blood.

Man, somebody needs to hear this right now.

I'm feeling this in my spirit.

Somebody listening needs to hear my heart, heart hear my voice if it's under the blood it is a weapon now for the gospel if it's under the blood it is a weapon for the gospel and it's for us now to use as a testimony of the love of jesus and the mercy of jesus and the grace of jesus and the power of christ to bring us through these dark seasons and for us to use them now as testimonies to bring other people out.

And so if it's under the blood, it has now been weaponized for the power of the cross and the power of the Christ and the power of the Great Commission.

And we can say with confidence that we will not allow Satan to persecute us for what Christ has walked us out of.

And we will not allow our enemies to weaponize our past against us.

If it's under the blood, it can be used now to set other people free.

And my prayer is that someone, anyone listening to this moment right here would find the word that's on my hat through Christ.

They will find freedom.

Freedom.

Through the grace of Christ,

who is always willing to step into fully all of our suffering, our pain.

And only if we would do the same for our brothers and our sisters and not condemn each other for our struggles, but lean into each other's pain.

Man, some of our silent sufferers can become champions for the very things that had them bound.

And that, my brothers and sisters, man,

man, that's what we need.

Man, we could become champions for the things that once held us bound.

Champions for once was worse shame, was once shame, was once bondage.

No, we could be champions for those things things now.

Champions for those things now.

Champions.

Thank you so much for sharing that.

Yeah.

You know, I think just men struggle so much.

They struggle so much and there's so much shame for men.

And so to hear a man like as truly powerful as you and as strong as you, to know that you dealt with that, like even just that is going to free so many people.

So I pray so.

I pray so.

I pray so.

Um can I ask you a question?

Yeah.

What are you feeling right now?

But your tears, both of you.

I'm just want to know what you're feeling.

Yeah.

What are you feeling?

I just have so many people in my life who struggle.

And

I've had I had such an intense battle with anxiety and panic attacks that I thought were gonna

completely take me out.

Like I thought I was gonna die for sure.

Jesus.

And Jesus healed me.

He really did.

And

but I know so many people, men specifically, who struggle so much.

And I think I live in a really weird tension sometimes with my own testimony of Jesus.

radically healing my life and my mind and praying day in and day out for people, men that I love, for the same thing to happen.

So, to know that power in your own life, but to not see it manifest in the lives of the people you care about most, no matter how much you beg God.

And like the tension of being like, I can handle that mental health because I know myself.

They can't.

Can we switch?

Like, if you, if it's only for one of us, can I?

Like, that's what I live in a lot.

So,

wow,

man, I uh

man, your heart is so beautiful.

You know, and

I can't believe you said you would switch with someone just for them to have freedom.

You know, and

I think about how the Apostle Paul said, you know, and almost he would almost be willing to give up his own salvation, that his kinsmen would be saved.

And

I'm going to join you in prayer

for those people you love.

You know, and I'm going to commit to you that

I'll cry out for them and come alongside you in the spirit to believe God for them that he would

he would meet them right where they are and he would bring them out

Yeah, I'm gonna do that for you.

What about you Ari, what are you feeling?

Um, well a couple things.

I feel like I turned to the hosts, right?

Right, I just want to say that family.

It's so nice, but

I think it just feels so nice to hear that you too struggled because because no one prepared us for ministry and the spiritual warfare that we face.

The warfare.

And the anxiety and depression coming off those stages.

Not understanding what's going on.

The warfare.

And

just the people.

I cry out for them every night.

I think about them every day.

I see the way they...

They battle with suicide.

And I grieve every day.

And it's hard to sleep at night and I know I need to give it to Jesus

but these kids are in so much pain

and it's just really been difficult

and so I battle because I'm like I know God you caught me I need to be tough but I just weep over

I weep over this

country and the suffering that I see at the shows and what I meet these people.

And I go through the same thing in my family where I would switch places.

I think, Ari, like

I think the beauty of your heart and your

what you ladies have seen out there in the country.

And um

when I see your tears

When I see your tears

I am reminded of

when the Lord was getting ready to leave Jerusalem and

he looks out over the city and

he weeps

he cries

over his nation

How desperately he said he wanted to gather them like a mother gathers their chicks.

And so I think what y'all ladies have experienced,

you know, having been on tour for all these months, traveling the whole country,

gosh, man, this is...

Y'all are seeing the brokenness of the American church.

You are witnessing firsthand the brokenness of God's people in our country.

You're seeing

firsthand the condition of the souls

of God's people in the country.

And in this moment,

Matthew chapter 9 is welling up in my spirit where the Lord

focused his disciples.

He said, look,

they're like sheep scattered without a shepherd.

And that the harvest is so ripe.

And what y'all have been seeing out there, you've been seeing sheep scattered without shepherds.

And that scattering in its original language talks about people who are just dealing with spiritual neglect.

They're wounded, they're broken, they're tired.

That's what y'all have been seeing out there, right?

I've seen the images of y'all embracing people at the altar, and I've seen the tears you've shed over people all around the country, right?

And you're seeing the state of the American church.

You're seeing it firsthand.

in cities all around the nation.

And I think the tears that y'all are shedding as y'all have been traveling, even the tears you shed right now, the tears that I shed,

I feel like these are the tears of our Savior.

I feel like these are the tears that He's shedding.

And

how do we respond to that?

Yeah.

Back to our knees.

Back to the proclamation of the gospel.

Back to loving as many people as we can

and exalting Christ as best we can, you know.

And

I just

seeing your tears in person and seeing your tears on camera watching your podcasts and feeling the depth of your intimacy

and the depth of your

purity and the depth of your transparency and the depth of what Christ has done in your hearts.

Um,

man, God protect Angie and Ari.

God protect this podcast, man.

God, watch over y'all souls.

Thank you.

You know, God, protect your relationship and order your footsteps.

God, keep leaning into your suffering and protect your minds and your hearts from every line, every attack of the enemy.

I feel that because y'all are on the front line of battle, you're going to deal with a lot of warfare.

Yeah.

And as I'm praying for you, I'm going to ask you to pray for me.

Yeah, of course.

Right?

Because I feel like right now in this season of of my life, I was sharing with people around me, people I love.

I'm dealing with more warfare than I've ever dealt with in my entire Christian walk.

Wow.

You know, the last six months for me from January until at the time of this recording, it's June right now.

From January to June, it's just been warfare.

That's all I've known.

All I've known is warfare.

In the middle of a growing church, in the middle of a growing platform, in the middle of all of that, all I've known has been warfare and attacks and arrows.

I've seen my wife cry.

I've seen my daughters cry.

I've seen my sons cry.

I've seen, I've shed tears.

All we know, all I know is warfare

and misunderstandings and arrows being thrown at my name and my ministry from every direction, right?

And my response to all of that is love

and praying for my enemies because I don't have enemies.

They think they're my enemies.

I don't have any.

I pray for them.

And

all I've known is warfare.

And it was a point I'm like, Lord, why am I dealing with so much warfare?

Like, why, like you were saying, like, why all these arrows?

Yeah.

You know.

And the Lord has to remind me.

Woe is you.

When all men speak well of you.

Yeah.

So some will not.

And blessed are you.

When people revile you

and persecute you

and speak all manner of evil against you falsely for my name's sake,

he told us some way, somehow, we have to rejoice.

I'm still trying to figure that part out.

I don't have that part figured out yet, right?

Like, I don't have that part figured out.

Rejoice.

How am I going to do that?

And be glad.

Yeah.

How am I going to do that?

For great is your reward

in heaven.

If y'all figure out that rejoice part, suffering, y'all let me know.

Call me.

We'll call you.

Call me and let me know because that part, I don't have that part figured out yet.

Maybe it's the street in me.

Y'all help me figure that part out.

We're going to be going a bat for you in prayer every day.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

You have our word.

I wish we could go for 10 more hours.

Yeah.

We probably could, but we can't.

We could.

But we family.

We're family.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You are family.

Thank you.

You are.

I just want everybody who's watching and listening to know, like,

there's just.

There's something about watching someone over a podcast or a sermon on YouTube.

And there's something that crystallizes when you're with somebody in

person.

Like you are the real deal.

You are who you say that you are.

Like

you speak in the presence of God fills the room.

It is oil from heaven that is on your life.

It is the anointing of Jesus Christ that comes out of you when you speak.

Thank you, Jesus, for your life.

Thank you.

Thank you, Jesus, for your life.

Everything that you've gone through, everything that you continue to go through, it is all, it is all.

None of it is in vain because of what comes out of you.

So we bless you, Pastor Philip.

We bless every single person that tries to come against you in your ministry.

And we speak, we just speak the blessing of Jesus over your life in Jesus' name, over your ministry, over your family.

We speak the protection of God over you and we plead the precious blood of the Lamb over your mind, body, and spirit in Jesus' name.

In Jesus' name, thank you.

Wow, we bless you, Pastor Philip.

Thank you.

Thank you for this opportunity.

You want to close it?

Oh, yeah, sure.

I'm sorry.

Someone's got to close it.

We're very amateur.

We don't know how to open it or close.

Thank you guys.

Thank you guys so much.

May the Lord bless you and keep you.

May his face shine upon you and give you peace.

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