Cheating, Divorce & Complete Redemption w/ Toni Collier | Girls Gone Bible

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How many kids do you have?

I have two whippersnappers.

Girls.

Whipper snappers.

Can I see a five?

An adult.

Okay.

In her mind.

What did you call it?

Girly copy Whippersnapper the other day.

No, you wouldn't be tall.

Is she really hop?

Oh, yeah.

Is she?

She's 11.

She's in Greece for a week right now with her dad.

She is living her best, most blurtist life.

She's like, that's it.

I'm moving, girl.

I'm like,

does she talk like that?

Yes.

Okay.

All the time.

So you have her yet, because you're 34.

Okay, so yeah.

I had her at 22, 23.

Yeah.

And then I had my son three years ago.

He's just massive.

I don't even know where he got the height from, actually, but he's massive.

He's three.

And he's so cute.

Like, he is, he's introverted.

So it's just precious, but he's super rough and fearless.

Yeah.

He's like a boy's boy, jumping off of stuff.

But then with people, he's like,

you have them at the perfect age because now they're growing up.

Oh, it's great.

And they get to be friends.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, he's obsessed with her.

Like, I'm obsessed with him, but then he's obsessed with her.

Yeah.

I want to wake Sissy up.

To have your boy and your girl.

I'm going to be like Sarah probably having my kid a 9 day.

No, I'm just kidding.

Just kidding.

It's going to be gay.

Kind of.

Maybe.

I know.

I'm done.

I think I'm done.

I mean, I don't know.

I don't know if I'll ever get remarried again because all men are dead to me.

I was about to ask, you're a single parent.

I'm a single mama.

So I was married with Dylan's dad.

Yeah.

And he just was violent.

Very, very violent.

So when she was one, we literally packed all of our bags up.

Oh, your microphone.

Hi.

Packed all of our bags up and left.

Stayed with another single mama.

Wow.

And then

I didn't think I was going to get married again, met a pastor, thought this was like my Cinderella story.

I'm like, this is it, guys.

I'm like super safe now.

I'm never going to curse again.

And when was this?

Oh, 2016.

Okay.

Am I right about this?

Yes, 2016.

And he worked for North Point Ministries.

I mean, I was like, y'all, I hit the jackpot, you know, like he's the pastor, pastor.

Our second year of marriage, I found out he had a porn addiction.

He was hiring women for sexual favors, y'all.

And then I would say,

I just was really isolated and I was nervous to tell my parents and my friends.

And then I didn't want to go through another divorce.

So I was like, we should go on a healing journey together and just try to mend it.

And so I thought we were kind of on this healing journey.

And then two years ago, I was in Nashville filming with TBN.

And I got a call from him that he was being extorted by a prostitute because he never stopped.

I thought he did.

The light always comes to darkness.

Every single time.

And in what?

You got a phone call?

So he called.

So long story short, he hired someone.

It was a transgender prostitute.

That's another, I don't even know.

And he's a pastor?

He's a pastor.

And I guess they got a video of him.

And so they were using this video to extort him.

And he sent like $10,000.

And then they threatened to come to our church because we had planted a church we planted hillsong atlanta so we were the first african-american pastors with hillsong wow and you were the lead pastors yeah uh-huh legal first african-american global lead pastors um we left north point to go to hillsong and then hillsong stuff blew up literally six days after they announced us the carl lent stuff came out we were like

hi people magazine we don't know anything we just got here um and so we ended up having to leave hillsong and have our own church called story church and when we transitioned, my ex-husband never put a board back in place.

Oh, and so when everything happened, he just got to keep preaching and leading.

Everybody left the church, but he just built another staff.

And how did, how did, if you don't mind me asking, oh, you're your girl.

And it's all on the internet.

Yeah.

You're good, right?

We're good to start.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, really quick.

Yeah.

Hi, I'm Anne.

And I'm Ari.

And this is Girls Gone Bible.

We're a faith-based podcast where we talk all things: spirituality, mental health, relationships, everything to do with life.

But specifically, we love Jesus.

We love the Word of God.

And today, we get to have a really special guest.

You've already heard a little bit about her.

It's our girl, Tony Collier.

Not Collier.

No, that is.

No, nothing fancy.

Collier, right?

Collier.

Oh, my gosh, Tony, we love you.

Tony's from Atlanta.

She's here in Santa Monica visiting.

She preached three services at a church yesterday.

Yeah.

Then drove seven hours

to get here.

She had no idea that it was gonna be seven hours

wow how many hours is 389 miles wait i'm dead what'd you what did your playlist look like on that seven hour drive i actually ride in silence y'all it's so weird i'm just like

I have no idea

because I'm such an extrovert.

I don't even know when I get in a car.

I'm just like,

we just like met like,

no, I also have ADHD, so I'm like, oh, look at that.

Oh, look at that.

Wow.

I think I entertain myself.

I love that.

I love that.

So there you go.

So Tony is an amazing woman of God, a preacher, an author.

A mother.

A mother.

A mother.

A mother.

You have a large social media presence.

You impact so many, so many, so many people with your story, with your life, with your relationship with Jesus.

You've been through so much in your life.

Yeah.

That's why everyone relates to you.

Yeah, I know.

It's great.

I'm like the trauma girl.

It's awesome.

There's a a part of my story you can connect with, I'm sure.

Yeah, I literally watch you on Better Together.

And I'm watching you, and I'm like, I want to be her friend.

And I literally messaged her, and I was like, hi, hi, friend.

What are you doing?

So inspired by,

it's so crazy watching you because I think we kind of like bleed out.

But like watching someone on the outside, I was like.

Being real like that, you makes people like I felt less alone in my pain and my journey when I watched you.

I was like, I want to be her friend.

I messaged you right away.

I was like, what's going on?

And it just breaks the mold of just like the Christian archetype

of having a perfect life where everything goes exactly as planned.

And like whose life, how many people's life actually turns out like that?

0%.

I'd like to report it.

0%.

Yeah.

And so it's so, I can't imagine how many people you've set free

just by being honest about how things have gone and about where you've been and the things you've walked through so we are so excited to have this conversation it's going to be um a really good one can we continue our where we were yeah come on girl let's just keep it moving and this is an honest girl who i love that about you already oh yeah well i think it's so funny because yesterday i was preaching and um a woman came up to me and she was like i have a broken crayon still color tattoo and i was like yes girl you better tattoo that on your body and she was like at first I was like, do I get broken tattooed on me?

Maybe I should get like hopeful crayon still color, you know?

know?

And I told her, I was like, no, I actually have a tattoo on my foot.

It says broken because I want to remind myself that I am so deeply flawed, that I'm imperfect and wired for struggle.

And, and I've been using more ands, less buts, and I'm still so worthy of love and belonging.

And I think it means more when you can admit that you're imperfect.

Like, when we're friends with like the perfect patty, I usually call him like Susan because Susan's usually pretty nice.

You know what I'm saying?

She smiles all the time.

She's bringing the charcuterie to the party.

Like it's so easy to love her.

You almost want to like buck at her just to see if she hits you, you know, because she's so kind and nice.

Like those people, we love them and it's so easy to love them.

But when you got a little baggage, you not all that know that one friend.

Yeah.

And you say, I still want to invite you to the party.

I still want you in the room.

Like you can tell it means more.

So if we are more honest about all of our stuff, because we just all have stuff, I just wonder how much more it would mean for someone to look at us and be like, how many accept you?

Or me too.

I see your pain.

I just think it means more.

Wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

That is so special and it's so true.

Every,

I love that.

Do you mind if we continue on?

I mean, we want to know your story.

We want to know how you found Jesus.

Oh, I love it.

I mean, there's just so many different little points, but I do, I love the question how I found Jesus, because I do think when I first said yes to Jesus I was kind of like one foot in one foot out like I'm a wild girl at the end of the day.

I still am okay.

Like that has not changed.

I still think about doing wild things sometimes, you know?

What's different is that I've got the barrier of holiness surrounding me, right?

And so but I mean I was a wild girl for a long time.

But but you grew up

parents Christian?

Yeah, they was Christian.

We went to a Catholic church.

I barely went.

Okay, I barely went.

I just was a rebel.

Like I had three older brothers, youngest girls, so spoiled.

And my mom was very sick growing up.

And my dad was really verbally abusive.

So he was an alcoholic.

He has since stopped drinking.

And like, God has redeemed our relationship.

It's beautiful.

But I grew up in a lot of pain.

I was sexually abused as a little girl, lost my virginity at 13, started drinking alcohol, wine coolers at 14 and 15, drugs, partying to numb all that pain.

And so at 21, when I was like in a church and I was at an altar call, I'm like, what is this?

I probably was a little bit high, honestly.

And I just had this crazy encounter with the Lord where he showed me my whole life, all the partying, all the drunk driving, all the crashing cars.

I mean, y'all, truly, I should not be alive.

And how he protected me the whole way, how he had angel armies surrounding me, and I never knew it.

So at 21, I was like, yes, Jesus, but also I kind of want to curse a little bit and I want to live crazy.

So for me, salvation was awesome.

It was sanctification that was missing.

There wasn't a discipleship model at the church I was at.

And so I would always always say, I said yes to Jesus at 21, but I was a fan of God, not a follower.

And then at 25, I went through my first divorce.

I was scared.

I was nervous.

I was really pleading with the Lord to show up.

And that's when I really changed my whole life.

My gosh, we have so many parallels in our story.

Jesus reminds me of a lot.

Yeah, the same like find Jesus, get wrecked by God,

sanctification still.

It's like I had a theology around mental health because my mental health was

horrific, same, but I did not have a theology around like I thought Jesus saved me from my mental health.

Not

that's really good, right?

But like, he didn't save me from sin.

So, that was the thing that I wasn't.

We need to talk about that.

Yeah,

is this the holy tangle?

Is this happening right now?

No, I love this because I'm a mental health junkie.

I just love how the Lord's designed our brain and how He's designed it to heal and create new pathways that essentially help us cope with different relationships and think I love it.

Yeah, and also, also, I think we need healing and holiness.

And that's hard.

Yeah.

Because when you feel more whole, you almost create your own moral compass.

You know, like you're like, no, I respond to people in kind ways now.

I'm not as volatile.

I don't get triggered so much.

Like, I'm a good person.

Being a good person is different from being a holy person.

Yeah.

And it took me a while, but I never put language to that.

So that was just so helpful for me.

There we go.

Because I do think we can get stuck in being good people and not holy people.

I talk about this all the time.

I used to get stuck in that a lot too, of like, I'm a good person, but I'm a good person.

Yeah, I used to love sex, but I'm a good person.

And Jesus, the gospel is nobody's a good person.

Nobody says that.

Nobody's a good person.

You better say that today.

And Jesus never says, like, I want you to be a good person.

He says, I want you to be holy as I am holy.

Like, that's.

That's good.

You know what I mean?

That love that's so good.

God.

Can you talk about it?

We're going to set set someone free.

Can you talk about holiness?

Your journey with sanctification.

Yeah, I mean, for me, it was honestly, it was about environment.

Like, I just didn't have friends,

people, even family.

Like, I get high, I do drugs with my own brother, you know, like I just didn't have people to help drive home that

yes to Jesus is that now I'm a child of God.

But that doesn't necessarily mean relationship is there.

And I realized that I would go go to church on Sunday and belt out every single worship song.

Like, I'm louder than the worship leaders.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, I'm going to be on that front row and I'm going to be harmonizing.

And then pull me close.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, I'm going to be and I'm going to be a little bit loud and a little bit off key so you can hear me for real.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, on the, I mean, on the front row.

But then Monday through Saturday was empty.

Wow.

And I genuinely believed, I'm not kidding you.

I really believed I was doing it right.

Wow.

I I was like, I go to church, I give, I serve, I volunteer, like I'm a good human being, I'm super generous, like this is awesome.

And the Lord is just like, yeah, that's so awesome.

You're doing so many great things for my people and for my world, but you got to start thinking like you're in heaven, that Eden is actually on the way.

You're not preparing to be a good person on earth.

You're preparing to be a surrendered worshiper in heaven.

And that was the defining difference for me.

Like, oh, wait, like I I can be a good person and a good mom and a good wife, but I may not be any of those things in heaven, actually.

I'm just going to take me with me to worship God.

And I will never forget.

I can't remember who it is because that part I do forget, but I was sitting at a retreat and someone said, I remember it's Louis Giglio.

He said, if you have an issue.

sitting in silence and being with the Lord for an hour, for two hours, then you're really going to be frustrated in heaven.

Wow.

When all that you do is worship the Father, when all that you hear is holy, holy, holy, you're going to be so irritated, borderline selfish that he's getting all the attention.

So make yourself prepared now.

Wow.

And that means every crevice of my life has to be about him.

Now.

Nuts.

For heaven.

Unbelievable.

Yeah.

Unbelievable.

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So you are,

you get married, right?

Is that guy?

I get married.

I get engaged at 19 because I was an adult.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, hey, making so many good decisions with a guy I met three months before.

Oh, you got married after three months.

Girl, knew this man for three months.

He was like, I'm moving to Atlanta from Texas.

I want to be an R B singer.

And I was like, I'm going to, homeboy.

Let's go.

I wasn't even done with college.

My parents were so mad.

Really?

I was supposed to go to law school and all the things.

I graduated and I was a little bit of a nerd.

I graduated high school in three years at 16.

And then i graduated college at three years and at 19 and so i was going off to law school i would have had my law degree 21 25 been set for the rest of my life met this guy and i was like i'm gonna leave because i'm gonna be a wife now and messed around and moved from texas to georgia and honestly our dating relationship was pretty good but when we moved and shacked on up it was horrific so violent okay how long did you guys this is going all sorts of places but we're ready time.

All my ADHDers watch it.

You're lying.

You're not because you're taking it, but this is so good.

Okay.

Ari and I talk about this often.

Yeah.

There's so much pressure in the Christian community to get married.

Listen, I was dating my boyfriend for a year.

I posted a photo saying that we were together for a year.

I was bombarded with people saying like, it's been a year.

Like, he doesn't even like you.

Like, he really, like, hey, he doesn't even like you.

No commitment.

Zero commitments.

Yeah.

And so there's this pressure in the Christian community to get married after like a very short amount of time.

I'm not saying that that doesn't work, but for you, your dating relationship is perfect because you don't know each other.

Then you get married.

Talk to us about what you feel.

Oh, man.

Well, first of all, let me just say this.

My picker is broken.

Okay.

I am clearly not whatever enough to pick the right man at this point.

But I say that because I think for many of us, it's time for us to admit that for some of us, we're actually not ready to pick the right guy.

Wow.

And i didn't want to admit that yeah i'm like no no no i got it i'm good to go but when i look back in my past the examples i had were not godly men who treated you with kindness who spoke with you with kindness who respected your body and the decisions you want to make for god for it like i i didn't have any of that as an example so to think that i was equipped to choose a husband was just naive and immature and i do think you get into a relationship and especially in the church man where it's like you got to hurry up and get married because you know you're going to mess around and have sex.

Yeah, totally.

So you've got that in your head.

You're like, okay, let me hurry up and get married to this person that I barely even know to spend the rest of my life with.

And then you have no time to see them in the seasons.

Yes.

And that's what, again, like I want to say my picker is broken.

I'm healing it right now.

So I'm not talking about this from a place of authority, more so a place of conviction because I've done it wrong twice.

And so, and for those of you with no context, I've been married and divorced twice all before 32.

And so I know that you get into these situations and you just believe like, I've got to move fast.

I've got to lock this down.

There aren't that many men left in the world.

Like I've got to hurry up.

And I just think when we allow anything from culture to drive us, we're doing it wrong.

Mm-hmm.

Lord, what do you say?

Like, he's going to tell you, first of all, he's going to tell you the timing.

He's going to place impressions on your heart about this person.

He's even going to give you red flags that you'll probably ignore.

Yeah.

and did you realize this being

in this season of singleness?

Because you've been single for how long now?

Two years.

And has that

and how transformative?

Me too.

Me too.

Oh,

okay.

Do you

in therapy right now?

But do you feel like this has been so transformative?

Like, was it crucial for you to be single?

And do you feel pressure?

Yeah.

Because you're 34.

Yeah.

How do you feel right now at 34?

Do you feel the weight or how do you feel?

I feel like I'm 62.

I want to just put that out there.

I've lived all the life.

I have slept with everybody's son.

I have, I mean, she's so real.

Like, baby, what else do I need to do?

I didn't have.

No, I.

She's so real.

Y'all.

I did a soul tie ceremony with her.

Wait.

Wait, what?

I did it.

I did so many soul-tie ceremonies.

Listen, I was at this retreat with the women way more holier than I am.

I know it for sure.

Okay.

And they gave us a little booklet and they said, here's what we want you to do.

We want to take these sheets.

We're going to write down everyone you have had

nasty things with.

Okay.

Anything.

And don't be trying to play around anything.

Whatever body part you used, write it down.

Okay.

And you were like, no.

And they were like, you guys have two hours to be with the Lord.

For each person, you're going to like write out this prayer or something like that.

And they were like, and then we'll see you guys back here for dinner at five.

I said, excuse me, can we push dinner to six?

Because I'm going to need a little more time with my sheet.

I can't write that fast.

I mean, my goodness.

So I say all that to say, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

I think because I didn't, okay.

I did not miss out.

I didn't.

I've been married.

I haven't had two weddings.

Okay.

I got two kids genuinely.

Okay.

All jokes aside.

I feel more myself than I have ever been in my whole life.

And it is because I have have grown up with lots of insecurities around body image and all the things, but also like just a recovering people pleaser, a chameleon.

I can be all things to all people.

And I think when you get in a relationship, it's so important.

The world makes it so important that you become who that person needs.

And I have shape-shifted and changed in relationships so much to please a man, which is,

I look back now and I'm like, I do feel, I don't feel shame, but I do feel embarrassment.

Same.

That

I guess i really believed

that i wasn't worthy i i think i really genuinely believe that i wasn't worthy for love belonging acceptance i don't actually believe that i was beautiful i used to even say i was like oh my gosh i was so fugly like you know i used to talk about myself like that you know and i'm like

i'm sorry it just comes out it's hard it's the best day of my life

all the time my friends are like, stop saying it's the best day of your life.

It's every day.

I'm like, it's an idiot.

They're like me.

We're hyperbolic.

Every day is the best day of your life.

Every day.

Last night was the best day after that seven-hour drive, okay?

But I just, I look back now and I'm so sad for 13-year-old Tony.

I'm so sad.

For 19-year-old Tony, for 21-year-old Tony walking down the aisle and her dad saying, you don't have to do this.

Like, I just feel so much empathy and compassion towards her because she just didn't know.

She didn't know that there was a savior who called her worthy and like who designed her and knitted her together, who made her so special.

I didn't know.

And all of that energy drove me to thinking the abundant life is a life with a man.

And it's just not.

Thank you for saying that.

So many people in their waiting season, they're like, I'm just, I hurry up.

And I'm like, this is the most transformative time of your life.

I'm frolicking around like a teletubby.

This is the best.

You know how you guys know Annie of Downs?

Annie of Downs.

I love her.

One of my favorites.

She was at Think Conference last year, I think it was, with Rebecca and Gabe Lyons.

And she posted this reel.

And she was like,

for every single person out there, and for me in that time, it's like, I'm like, tell us, speak to us, please.

She's like, for some reason, somewhere along the way, Someone made us believe that there wasn't an abundant life with being single.

Wow.

Yeah.

But the abundant life is for all of us.

And the abundant path that God has for us and how he's shaping it is abundant.

And it doesn't matter, it's just for you.

Abundance is just for you and it doesn't need anyone else.

Oh, and I'm like,

let's go.

Right out, girls.

I mean, singleness is so tough and

really, really difficult for most women.

Oh, yeah.

But the truth is, if you do get to experience a life of abundance while being single, you've experienced something that most people never do.

Yeah.

You know, and like women who get

who are a little bit older and who are still single and like actually get to a point where they like believe that life can be abundant without a man, they've experienced something that other people never will.

And you know what's interesting?

And y'all know this now because you're on tour, you're hearing all these stories.

Oftentimes, I'm not saying I'm 100% accurate, but after about 35 or 40, the women that I speak to that are single, it's like something happened to them and they unlocked a freedom.

It's more so in your 20s and 30s when you're always like, I'm running out of time.

I'm running out of time.

I got to find someone.

But around like 37, 40, the women that I talk to have been like, no, I get it now.

I never actually really needed this.

There's something about it.

It's so weird.

I'm thinking like through all the stories I've listened to, even our friends like Annie F.

Downs and all these different people with platforms around 37, 40, they're like,

what was I trying so hard for?

wow

so interesting

and it all comes from something that happened in childhood when we didn't get the validation affirmation or protection we needed for a man and then we spend the rest of our lives

looking for it looking for it in the and and here's the other thing i do think it's okay for us to long for it yeah i i think that when we're longing and looking it's the place that we're looking that's the issue because longing for intimacy i longed for intimacy when I first got my divorce because I was like, I'm sleeping in the middle of my bed.

No one's holding me.

I have not gotten touched intimately except for when my son licked my elbow that one time.

Like, you know, I can remember a morning when I was writing in my journal and I had my Bible, I had my little journal, and I was just like, I'm so sad.

I want to be kissed.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, not with the tongue of a two-year-old.

You know what I'm saying?

And I just, I remember the Lord.

Oh, this is so weird weird if you're not like in deep, intimate relationship with the Lord.

But I just was laying on my pillow and I just felt this like heat on the left side of my body and like, like pressing down like the Lord was cuddling me.

I'm not kidding.

I would not say this because he's so weird.

No, it's not weird.

If it wasn't true.

And I just am like, oh, I've been longing and looking for intimacy in the wrong place.

I know.

Oh,

it was him all along.

I know.

It was the Lord all along.

He can lavish you.

he can show you intimacy.

He is not,

I mean, he's omniscient, he's omnipresent, he's going to fill every crevice because he can.

And not everybody can fill every crevice like he can.

I just was longing and looking in the wrong place.

Even when you're married, even talk to people who are married.

There's no, we can talk about a codependency.

Yeah, been there.

When you make your husband your savior, that's the issue.

Yeah, dying.

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This episode is brought to you by No C D.

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So you get divorced the first time.

time and are you saved at that point?

Yes, I'm saved.

I actually started working at a church, but I was kind of like, again, living as a fan, not a follower.

And so I was a youth pastor, y'all, at this church.

I got ordained.

I was like preaching in schools.

It was crazy.

Ended up going through a divorce and thought my ministry career was over.

Like.

The pastor, they just kind of pushed me to the side.

They were like, okay, you need to not be a part of the church, all the things.

And there was no reconciliation.

So there's a lot of church hurt.

Very young.

So 24, divorced, lost my whole church community,

living with another single mom.

I mean, I had nothing.

Started working for Girl Scout Corporate and thought that was kind of like going to be my thing.

Like, I'm helping girls with their identity, and it's a good job.

You know, like, I feel good.

I'm going to rebuild everything.

And I ended up getting called to a meeting at Buckhead Church, which is a North Point campus under Andy Stanley, and just for like a meeting about creativity.

And I was like, okay, I'll go.

I'm down.

My ministry career is over, but I'm down.

I go to this meeting and I meet my second husband.

And he is just, now that I am aware he is very predatorial like my counselor I had to process through it because I was like he just loved me so much she was like she didn't he didn't know you he actually just loved the idea of you and he was very assertive and aggressive he was I mean our first time ever hanging out he was like I had a dream about you you're supposed to be my wife like

I want to take okay okay I had this is so good for me no idea in my mind I was Cinderella I'm like the Lord has literally saved me from this marriage.

I've got a divorce.

I'm rebuilding my life.

Now he brought me this pastor guy.

He worked for North Point.

I was like, this is amazing.

He's like, I'm going to take care of you and your daughter.

I'm going to help you rebuild your whole career.

Like you're called.

Like I'm supposed to, God has put me in your life to save you.

And I'm like,

immediately, right away.

From the first time we ever hung out.

What?

He's like, I had a dream about you.

You're supposed to be my wife.

You have to get on this.

He's like using metaphors, this spaceship with me

and do ministry.

and i'm like yes this still happens a lot by the way so this is so good for people okay good i'm glad i've actually never really talked about that part of our story um but it created this codependency yeah where i was like i owe him well when you say when someone says god told me this yep about soulmates yep and i get that all the time oh really i mean in our gems from random medical stuff but yeah anyways we love y'all i know they all are cringing right now watching this they're like let me unsend

right now.

If you're watching, just go ahead and do it.

Okay.

Just unsend it right now.

It's weird.

We don't want it.

Okay.

Yeah, because if I get one more, hey, sister, I'm praying for you.

Here's my number.

Liar.

You can pray without having my number.

Okay.

But I didn't realize it.

I mean, honestly, for years, even after the divorce, now that I'm in counseling healing from that marriage and I'm telling the story in its entirety, I'm starting to get these like revelations like, oh my gosh, like this was a predatorial thing.

Like i i was too weak to realize like hey you're moving too fast because i really deeply wanted to be saved honestly

and the the truth is a lot of my career happened because of him and that's just the truth he put me on stages like north point and orange and all these things and i know that he opened the doors and god did what he did later you know like but The truth is for years, I felt like I couldn't leave.

I shouldn't leave because I owed him.

Wow.

You know?

And so when the infidelity happened year two, and I found out about the sex addiction and porn addiction and the women he was hiring.

And then I found out he was flirting with his assistant.

And I mean, just so many things.

I just kept saying, I can't leave.

I, y'all, I would find myself begging him to stay.

I know.

I know.

Why?

I know.

I look back and again, I don't have a lot of shame, but I am so embarrassed and sorrowful for that girl who just didn't know.

No, you can leave.

You don't deserve this.

This is not okay.

There's no even trade in covenant.

Like he gets to cheat because he's done so much for you.

No.

Look at you now.

I know.

It's unbelievable.

I'm so proud of you.

And do you understand how validating that is for so many women?

I know women who have been cheated on and then beg the man to stay

because they don't have security.

Yeah.

And Jesus.

And it's the most devastating thing.

You entered into covenant and you guys promised to be with each other forever.

This is the person that you are, you have swore to spend the rest of your life with.

And then as a woman, you get cheated on and then you have to make the horrific decision to like, do I leave or do I stay?

But I promise to be with this person.

Just because they did what they did doesn't mean that I am going to break the covenant.

No, you were married at this point.

Yeah.

So we got married very quickly.

I mean, again, y'all, I mean, I remember we were like dating for like three months and he was like, hey, like, I think you've got a lot of trauma.

I think you have two choices here.

Like, I can either like journey with you on this and I can make a commitment to you and get married so that you know I'm for real and I'm here or like, you know, you can go on a healing journey for a year, but I can't promise that I'll be here.

And so I'm like, I got to marry this guy.

So we get eloped after three months of knowing each other.

And it was just like round two of like, where were the people at?

And I mean, this is, this is why I'm so, it's community.

This is why I'm talking about community so much now because when I look back at my story, I'm like, I didn't talk to anybody about it.

I was, I was just going to ask you.

I didn't have any close friends that I said, hey, do you think this is a good idea?

You didn't have anyone in your life that said, hey, guys, you need to.

But what about him?

He's a pastor.

He doesn't.

No, no, yeah, no.

I, yeah, no.

Well, you have a book, Don't Try This Alone.

Yeah.

And

truly, what we're talking about is the reason why I wrote it.

Right.

Because I do think we make so many mistakes in isolation.

So many.

That's the core of GGB.

Like community, sisterhood, friendship, brotherhood.

So get into it.

Yeah.

So don't try this alone.

The subline is how to build deep community instead of hiding from your pain.

Like, and that's the hard part.

It's like, I was in pain.

I was embarrassed.

I've got this guy that's like, oh my gosh, I'm going to change your whole life.

I'm going to help save you.

And I think I'm making all the right decisions, but there's no accountability.

There's no people.

And over these last two years, I just think the Lord has, in his kindness and grace and mercy, has brought me to a point of so much pain, so much public embarrassment that he said, I'm going to make sure that you need people this time, that you actually won't be able to do it alone so that you can see that I designed you to be connected.

And I did not design you to live this life alone.

And everything is going to be better this time because you're going to do it with other people.

with other God-fearing people that love you and want to hold you accountable.

And that's what the book is.

It is showing showing people how to build deep community when you want to hide from your pain, like how to do it.

Because we need those one, two, three steps.

We need to transition people, some of us.

Like some of us have friends in circles that they should not be in and we need to transition them to safer places because we can't heal in the place or with the people that broke us in the first place.

And it's all of that.

It's just talking about how God's designed us and why we're supposed to lean into people.

Wow.

I know.

It's been the best.

How did friendships, starting friendships, look after the betrayal?

Yeah.

And even all the church hurt.

Yeah.

So I'm a teletubby for real, for real.

Like on the inside, I'm pretty sure there's rainbow skittles.

Okay.

It's just, that's what it is.

The Lord has made me that way.

I love people.

I love to be around people.

I always have.

And so I do think I have an advantage because of my wiring.

I am like an extreme extrovert.

And

betrayal is difficult because

when when you are betrayed, your first instinct is to hide from other people and to label other people as potential betrayers.

That's the instinct.

This is how I'm going to protect myself.

And when we go to Jesus and we look at his life, we see that he, first of all, surrounded himself with 12 people that he didn't even need to surround himself with.

Jesus could have done all that he did here on earth by himself, but he chose imperfect humanity to do it with because, again, he's modeling to us that he designed us for connection.

Out of the 12, two would betray him and he knew it.

He's all-knowing.

So he knew Judas was going to get ratchet and be crazy.

A little rat, okay?

A little rat, all right?

And he also knew that Peter would deny that he even knew him.

How many times, you know, in high school where it's like, we're besties and you get in front of someone else and your best friend's like, no, I don't know her.

She's lame.

Like, that's betrayal.

And

knowing that he still pressed into community.

Because I think Jesus knew that the beauty of the ten was worth fighting for, even with the betrayal of the two.

And that's the posture I'm taking and I have taken into this next season.

And I'm telling people to take, yes, you've been hurt.

They don't get to have your future.

Yeah.

They don't get to keep you from good, beautiful relationships.

That will save you when you need it.

Truly save you when you need it.

Y'all, I have seen the tangible presence of the Acts church giving of everything so that everyone has everything that they need.

Like I have seen it.

I have tasted it.

I've witnessed it these past two years.

My whole entire house was furnished by my friends.

Friends are everything.

I had to move me and my kids and my nanny, which was crazy in like two weeks.

And I walk into this house and I'm not going to lie, I love an aesthetic.

a black and white Scandinavian vibe.

Okay.

And I couldn't afford it.

As divorced, I was, I took a break from stage.

I wasn't making any money.

Like, I was going to have an empty home until I put my pride down

and said, all right, I'm not the strong friend this time.

I don't get to create the Amazon wish list.

Someone else has to do it for me this time.

And that's hard.

I'm a worker.

I

value being strong.

I'm resilient.

I have grit.

I love it.

I'm built for tough.

I'm from Texas.

You know?

And I couldn't,

I couldn't furnish my own house.

Yeah.

And that

is embarrassing.

And

when I sit down on my couch with my kids, I'm reminded that my best friend Ashley got it for us.

When I see my son rolling around like a little wet baby seal on her rug, it's from my friend Lindsay.

When I lay in my bed, I'm reminded that it's from my friend Jen.

My two side tables from my friend Deborah Foletta.

My mirror is from my friend Lisa Whittle.

My whole entire daughter's bedroom was furnished by Jackie Hilperi.

Like, I may not have the most beautiful, we have baby blue walls.

They're so ugly.

They're so ugly.

I may not have the most beautiful and lavished home, but I have a loved home.

Yeah.

And that means more.

And it just required me to be humble enough to say, we need help.

Friends are everything.

Everything.

I'd be dead without my friends.

I say that all the time.

They're everything.

Everything.

Reflections of Jesus.

And Voskamp says, they're Jesus with skin on.

Like,

we get to see the fullness of unconditional love through the people that we decide

to share life with.

What?

Can I ask you something, yeah, quick?

When you first met your husband, you said you didn't have many friendships.

Yeah.

Can I ask why?

I was in a season where I knew that I had to transition from some friendships.

I didn't replace them.

So, because I wanted to start, stop partying and drinking, they're just, I couldn't be around my party friends anymore.

I couldn't be around my friends that were drinking.

And I mean, the truth is, even if I was around them, they probably would have been like, girl, he all right.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, you probably wouldn't have gave me good advice anyway.

But I was kind of in this like lull of, I'm entering into a new life and I do need to rebuild my community.

I don't have anyone now.

And then in swoops this man.

Oh, yeah.

And what's interesting is I think I finally got the courage to leave after all the cheating

because I started building community while I was married.

Yeah.

And right now I'm in a confessional community, which I think y'all would love.

It's seven of us, all leaders, all kind of doing the same thing, podcasting, speaking, writing books.

And we have been together for four years now.

And we meet once a year and we confess like everything in person at a retreat.

And then every month for three hours, we confess oh that's and we've been doing it for four years and it has saved me and here's what's even crazier when my ex-husband called me to confess that he was being extorted another act of infidelity um i was in nashville tennessee in a hotel and just down the hallway were two of the women that are in my confessional community

Almost none of us live in the same state.

So it just was one of those moments where you can see that God makes plans for your pain.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because I get this news and then I text them like, hey, are y'all up?

Because my whole world is about to fall apart.

And I need you.

And my friend Jessica sent me lemon blueberry pancakes because she knows I don't eat when I get super nervous and anxious.

My friend Jamie came and just held me in the hotel hallway.

The Lord put those two people there, but it's because I have been living on the offense, not the defense.

And I think for many of us, we want to call on everybody when we're in pain.

But it really should be us building up the friendships and the lineup and the team of people that'll be there for us

so that when the pain does come, we already have the people in place.

And that's what we should be working on.

That is amazing.

That's an amazing point.

Yeah.

You talked about just like transitioning.

You mentioned earlier, like you had friends,

but then you also had family.

And I think Ari and I have experienced similar things where it's like you are on a journey of sanctification.

How do you, and like even down to family members

who you go back home and you visit and you're like,

I've been picking up a couple things that I've been talking about.

I just said a few curse words now that I'm my Uncle Rick.

Oh, Uncle Rick.

Catch you every time.

You know what I'm saying?

Man, it's hard and it's kind.

I remember I had a specific friend that I knew I just, for a season, could not be close to because I just, I'm a chameleon, people pleaser.

Next thing you know, I'm stripping the club and so

I stripping the club you know what I'm saying next thing you know I'm twerking on somebody son you know what I mean like I just I know you know and I remember giving her a call and just saying this and for anyone listening watching here's your script okay hey I'm getting ready to get really serious about my healing because at that time I was about healing for me not holiness

um

and

I just realized that I'm weak in some areas when it comes to drinking and drugs and things like that.

And so I think what that's going to mean for our friendship is that I'm going to feel a little distant for a little while, but it's because I really do need to take some time to be alone, to get some accountability around me, to maybe even get friends who don't drink or don't party so that I can get strong enough to be able to be in deep relationship with you.

And so I don't know how long that's going to take.

I don't know what that looks like.

But I just want to make you aware so that you don't think I'm ghosting you or I've ignored you.

But I really just, I have to get serious about my healing.

Wow, that's great.

Thank you for that, Scribd.

Come on, subscribe.

Like, what are you like?

Who's going to be like, what?

You don't want to be my friend?

Somebody.

And, and maybe, just maybe that person doesn't need to be in your circle.

And that's the proof of it.

Their response to you saying, this is for me.

I have to do this.

And I've had to do this a few times.

I had to do it last year.

I, you know, you guys know I've been processing through infidelity, betrayal, healing from it.

When did you guys get divorced, by the way?

Um, two years ago.

So September 2023 is when I found out and started the divorce process.

And

what was interesting is that I had some friends that started going through some of the same things: infidelity, betrayal in their marriage.

And I'm the strong friend.

Remember, like everyone comes to me for help, for guidance, and I couldn't be.

And I remember my counselor telling me, like, you can care for your friends, but you can't carry them right now because you're not strong enough.

Yeah.

And so I remember having to tell some friends, some friends of mine, just saying, hey, like, I want to hold this story with you guys so badly.

Like, I want to hold this pain with y'all.

I'm not strong enough to do it right now.

Yeah.

And it's going to hurt me more.

And I think our relationship more if I stay too close to what you guys are going through.

So I'm going to have to back up a little bit.

Wow.

Wow.

But don't you think what your pain and everything you went through actually birthed real authentic friendships?

Because I know for me, yeah, when I went through everything I did, that's what created such intimacy.

Pain connects us.

It does.

Greater than any emotion.

But so many people want to hide it and it's like, don't.

That's what births authenticity and realness.

That's what got us so close.

Yeah.

It's the best, man.

It's, first of all, like the fact that pain connects us is just a testament to how like God, again, makes plans for our pain.

He knew, like, God's intention for us is Eden.

We were supposed to be butt naked in Eden.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, deliberatively.

That's what the goal was.

And when sin and the curse entered into our world god knew we would need each other to carry it yeah and for many of us we are waiting on god to do a miracle in our lives and to do a miracle through us but maybe god's trying to do the miracle through someone else that you're connected to

i always say that he that's what he did through and

for me like yeah sometimes

he always uses people he always

is he gonna use No, I know.

That's what he does.

Humanity.

God's plan A for humanity has always been humanity.

Like, that is the plan, guys.

I'm so sorry.

You can't get rid of us.

This is what we're supposed to be doing with each other.

And I just think for many people, you get mad at God because he's not carrying something that you won't let someone else carry that he's called to do it.

Chills.

I have them chills.

Holy tingle.

Like, and you're upset.

And you're like, well, he said his yoke is easy, his burden is light, and all these different things.

And it's just like, yeah, his.

Like, his way.

And sometimes his way is not your way.

And you have tried so hard to be the strong friend, you messed around and burned yourself out.

And now you're mad at God because you have tried to hold everything yourself and you won't let anybody else do it.

Because pride says, if I do it, I'll be more important.

If I do it by myself, I will be esteemed more.

I will have more.

And we all looking at you like you sweating buckshots, honey bun.

Your edges are looking crazy.

Your pits are wet.

You're working too hard.

hard.

Let them carry it with you.

I preached on John 11 yesterday.

I never noticed this fresh revelation I got on stage.

I think it's, it's, it's later in the verse, so it has to be like 30, it's John chapter 11, maybe 36 or 37.

Jesus gets to the tomb with Mary, Martha, and all their friends who had come to comfort them, because that's what friends do, by the way.

And he says, move the stone.

And so the question is, homeboy, like, you about to to raise a whole man from the dead that's been dead for four days.

Why you can't just flick of the wrist and like, why like just move the stone, just move the thing, okay?

And I think it's for two reasons.

I think number one,

what do you say?

Move it.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, what are you talking about?

And I think it's for two reasons.

I think, number one, Jesus wants us to be a part of the miracles.

He wants

us

to help him and he doesn't even need it because he wants us to be a part of the miracle.

And

it doesn't say this specifically.

I doubt Mary and Martha moved the stone.

And I say that because Martha's response to Jesus was: wait, wait, wait, don't have them move the stone.

I don't think it was her that moved it.

I think she was saying, don't let them, their friends, move it because he stinketh.

Okay.

Like he's.

So I don't think it was Mary and Martha that moved the stone.

I think their friends did.

Wow.

Wow.

Jesus

is about to save them from their grief.

And he asks their friends to help him because they're grieving.

I can't move the stone for my brother.

There's no way.

I can't do that.

My brother's died.

I can't do that.

Please don't move the stone.

That may disrespect.

I can't.

Let your friends do it.

Yeah.

You may not have the strength to move the stone they have it

come on he's always always

used people always

used people

and and i just i want to be mary and martha yeah i do i i want to be the girl that's like i'm in so much pain my people are here jesus is here they're taking care of it i just get to cry at his feet Mary, I just get to say, if you were here, if you were here, you would have lived.

If you were here, that marriage would have worked out.

I get to doubt, I get to question, I get to be at the feet of Jesus while my friends help me grieve, comfort me, and move the stones that I can't freaking move myself.

Wow.

That's what it is.

That is so good.

This is what we preach.

This is everything.

This is so inspiring.

Just like that's what's happening in my life.

Wow, wow.

Because you went through so much pain.

Thank you, Jesus, for all the pain.

Thank you, Jesus, to those men that did that to you.

Look at what happened through it.

Look at the fruit.

It's unfortunate.

And we want to run from it.

Yes.

And something happens.

Yes.

With the pain, the goodness comes.

The holiness comes.

The connection comes.

Like the stories I get to hold now, y'all.

Oh, my goodness.

Like, I met this guy just yesterday, and he comes up to me, older guy.

He's like, I got your story.

I said, what happened?

He said, my wife, she, she, you know, she was with, she went with another man.

She moved to London.

This man is in California, and she left, left me with my daughter.

I want you to meet her.

And I was like, I'd love to meet your daughter.

So after I preach, he comes up and he's got this special needs daughter.

And she's so sweet.

And she's like, Mike, she has my kids' book in her hand.

And I'm looking at this man and he's like, She's the love of my life now.

And I'm just like,

when you don't know what it feels like for someone to betray you and leave you when you have your kids,

Like

your babies.

Like

this man knows, and I know his pain, and he knows my pain.

And that brings us closer.

And we're strangers.

And I maybe will never see this guy again.

And yet, I got to have a moment with him and his sweet girl.

And he's like, I love this church.

I've been to 10 churches.

It's the first church that has a special needs program for my daughter.

She's like pointing out little emojis on my book.

And my kids' book is all about like having big emotions and and being messy and God's still loving you and she's gonna go home and he's gonna read that to her and I'm just like wow

like

I wouldn't have chosen

I wouldn't have chosen so much pain because I know it's not worth it yeah and I've discovered that it's also not wasted yeah

and it's so then it is worth it kind of

you know what I mean

like that we even get to do this wow it's it's the best it's the greatest gift I know can look at others and say me too yeah and relate right

i hope that man watches this i know me too me too i know we're gonna find him sweet he's a guest services guy i will find him we're gonna find him your heart is beautiful tony your heart is gold thanks for saying gold this is

All that you've been through, I mean, and it just made you just such a, we talked about communication at the beginning of this.

I mean, you are a phenomenal communicator.

You're obviously gifted, anointed, made for this.

And then to add the emotional depth, the depth, the depth, to be like this deep well of emotion and experience.

And so, like, every message you ever preach will not only be just like on this wave of great communication, but it's just like backed with all this real raw authenticity.

Thanks for saying that.

Thank you.

You're a really special person.

You are.

Thank you.

And really funny, too.

You're a nutshell.

I mean, it's a flick of the wrist.

But this drew, I'm like,

being in a genuinely serious conversation and then saying I was fuggly is probably the most like

I'm going to be looking in the mirror now and be like, you look fuggly today.

Baby girl.

Look at you.

Baby girl.

That's great.

So

I think one of the biggest things for our community is they feel isolated.

They don't know where to find community.

Can you tell our viewers

how can they step out in boldness,

find friends?

I think that's that's the biggest thing right now.

It is really difficult.

And here's what I don't want to discount, that it's so difficult.

In my research for the book,

I had this question that just popped up when I was writing it where I was like, why is it so easy for kids to make friends and not us as adults?

And there's so many factors.

Number one, you know, my daughter, she goes on a playground 52 seconds later.

She's like, hey, my girly pop.

I'm like, what's up?

She's like, I met a friend where Bestie's now.

I gave her your number.

I'm like, oh,

what?

You gave her my number.

Okay.

She's like, yeah, play date next week.

It's going down.

Like, it just, it just happens naturally for them because one, they don't have so much baggage.

They don't have a lot of shame.

Right.

And so I think when the Bible says, you know, we enter into the gates of heaven as children, that that's what God's looking for, that he values children.

I think a part of the element of that is for us to be like.

unashamed for us to still be bold like we were when we were kids like hey you want to be my friend yeah that's what i do hey i literally do that i did that yeah that's what do.

Like, hey, you're like, hey, you want to do dinner?

I'm like, okay, girl, let's do it.

You know, like just to be unashamed like that, I think is something that we lose over time, which is important, which is why it's important for us to heal, for us to access some of these different parts of us that we're younger and why we respond to things in certain ways.

That's one.

But also, our parents were the curators of community for us.

So they took us to the park with other kids and the jumpy place.

They put us in school where we're literally with kids all day.

I wake up in the morning, got crust in my eyes.

I'm not around other random adults.

You know, like I'm going to my job or my coffee shop or whatever.

And so I think that we really have to get serious about curating community around us.

Go, this is so lame.

Go on Eventbrite.

Go on a what?

Eventbrite.

What's Eventbrite?

If you look at Eventbrite, it's like the

Eventbrite.

Eventbrite.

Right.

It's like an event hosting spot.

So if you guys did a tour and you wanted to run tickets through, there's like Brush Fire, all these different like platforms that run tickets through it.

Well, Eventbrite StubHub, well, Eventbrite is local events,

Zumba classes.

Oh, Eventbrite just did some sort of like Christian roller skating night.

And it was like right down the street.

If you sign up in your zip code, it will show you little events that are around you.

If you aren't in the gym, go to a gym, do some fitness classes.

And I'm using all of the other little environments except for the environment that I do want to say, which is the church.

Yeah.

Church.

Okay.

The church in all of its glory and imperfection

was designed for this.

Yeah, I know.

Like, we were designed to do horizontal connection and vertical worship.

That's what the church is for.

Wow.

Horizontal connection, vertical worship.

Now, unfortunately, for some of y'all, you've been horizontally worshiping.

Okay.

So now your pastor is your savior, which is weird.

Okay.

But it's supposed to be the opposite.

We're supposed to connect horizontally.

What?

It's true.

And that's weird.

And that's weird.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All of y'all are putting your pastors on pedestals that you want to rip them off of when you realize they're imperfect like you.

Hello, somebody.

Hello, somebody.

That's what we're doing.

Okay.

It's crazy.

Anyways, the church, like, we have to start putting ourselves in environments with community.

Yeah.

After we get into that environment, and here's the deal, like, there's no timeline for this.

Like, you can go to a Zumba class or a golf thing or join a local softball, whatever the world, flag football, all the things, and not talk to anybody for a little while until you get comfortable.

That's okay.

Take a round or two, go to church, a round or two, get comfortable, get your bearing.

Okay, I got a lot of introverted friends, which is weird.

I don't know how they're hanging out with me.

I think it's because I shield them from any socializing, but I have so many introverted friends and they're like, Tony, there's no way.

And I'm just like, you don't have to move at the speed of an extrovert.

As a matter of fact, if I'm not mistaken, the whole introvert, extrovert thing was man-made.

Right.

Please do not let a man-made title keep you from your God-given design.

You were designed for connection.

I'm so sorry.

Your personality type does not keep you from that.

That's right.

So sorry about that.

Okay, sweet.

Now, it may look different.

You may be like, I can, I can't do the big crowd, but I can do the one-on-one.

Yeah.

And I'm just going to go after the one Zumba girl in the corner.

Okay.

Like, and that's okay, but we have to start putting ourselves out there and we have to be confident enough to be okay with being rejected.

Yeah.

That's right.

Wow.

Because someone's going to be like, I don't have enough capacity for more friends.

Me.

I literally have a confessional community of seven of us that I'm meeting with every whatever.

I have a travel group that I love so much dearly.

We do life together.

Then I have like my local gym community where we do, I do events at my house.

It's crazy.

I love people for real, for real.

I have these different pockets.

And if I continue to add too many people to these intimate circles, then I won't have enough capacity for my kids and et cetera, et cetera.

So someone may be like, hey, I may not have the capacity for a close friendship, but we can hang.

Yeah.

And that's okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's okay.

You just try again.

Y'all know Bumble got

some friends.

Yeah.

You just have to start saying yes.

That's what I'm saying.

Yes.

You just have to start saying

home.

On the phone, scrolling.

The little hibernating bear, get out of there.

It's time to get outside.

Right, right.

But not like that outside.

You know what I'm saying?

No, no, no.

Okay, because we've all been outside and it's scary out there.

I was outside.

I was outside.

I'm now inside.

I'm now inside.

I'm going back outside.

It's nasty out there.

You catch something outside.

Just start saying yes.

Just start saying yes.

You want to go for coffee?

Yes.

You want to go for that run?

Don't really want to run, but I'll walk next to you.

Yeah.

Do you want like, come on?

Say yes.

I can't imagine.

Okay, when y'all think about it, this is my ADHD brain, but like when I think about friendship, I think about like the whole entire world.

And if everyone had like one, maybe even two good friends that loved Jesus, that held you accountable, how much less discourse there would be in the world?

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like when you think about it, it's like I am not popping off on people on the internets because I know that in 30 days, I have another Zoom call where I'm going to have to confess everything I did from the past month.

Right, totally.

So let me chill.

Let me, you know what I'm saying?

Accountability is up to you.

It's just, it's like when you look, I just, we would just be all better people yeah what do you say to like because i'm sure when you say friendships you mean friends who sharpen and edify and yeah call you higher call you out well like what is your relationship do you like feedback do you ask for feedback do you are you open

This is why the confessional community is so important because we know going into it that this is a space of confession and accountability.

And we put that in place because the truth is, I think we actually have to, I think confession requires a muscle.

It's why I think in the Old Testament, especially like Leviticus, where we're seeing how God's like fashioned people to confess and to slaughter animals, like it was a way, there was a system for confession, for continual repentance.

I think when Jesus came, which we love, thank you, daddy God, we don't have to kill any more goats and such.

Like,

what kind of left is the system of confession when you think about it in the New Testament?

Because it went from, I've got to go to a rabbi or you know a teacher of the law like I've got to go here to go confess but it's a part of a system and this is how we do it now

outside of the Catholic church I don't think there's a structured time of confession in church yeah when you think about that

right yeah like I mean Catholicism is it's got its quirks but that confession piece of sitting down with someone and saying I did this I did this I did this I'd like to give it to the Lord like they're on on to something there yeah and i think as you know the evangelical church like we're missing it there's no space at all maybe a small group if that's what you decide to talk about but half y'all small groups you're drunk just because

you got your food and wine at the small group with the bible study and you're looking crazy no

because there's so much freedom and autonomy yeah you're just at the crib hanging out yeah so what does it look like for us to decide that we're going to individually through sanctification, put people and strategies in place to where we're continually confessing?

Yeah.

Oh, I love that.

I love that.

I love that.

Because we don't have it.

Yeah.

And in your friendships that aren't these confessional,

what is like conflict like?

Like

my favorite.

I love conflict now.

What are you on the Enneagram?

I'm a three.

Me too.

Achiever?

I thought you would be an eight.

Well,

here's the deal.

I think I've gotten healthy.

Okay.

I think I've gotten healthy.

And so a lot of people think I'm a seven because I'm so much fun.

I'm like, all the time.

I'm like, surprised.

I actually just want to crush it every day.

Okay.

I mean, true.

She must be a Drea.

Oh, I am trying to crush it.

That's what I want to do.

I want to win.

I thought I was a two for a long time until someone asked me a question.

They were like, when you help people, do what's more satisfying to you?

Saying, oh my gosh, I'm so glad that they got helped and they are enjoying this help.

Or like,

I helped them.

I crushed it.

And it's that one.

Wow.

I don't know.

I'm a two with a bad heart.

Anyways.

I'm like, damn.

But the eighth thing truly has come from healing.

Because now, like, I'm a truth teller.

But before, I would not say anything or lean into conflict at all.

Wow.

Which is my problem, honey, is because I want to make everybody happy.

I want everybody my friend.

I want you to like me.

Now, I only want Jesus to like me.

I don't care what y'all think.

I don't because you ain't coming to heaven with me.

I mean, you may go to heaven, but you ain't coming with me.

Yeah.

I'm going with me.

Anyways, not even these kids.

I can't wait till Jesus come back.

Catch up on my stuff.

He got the kids.

No, he's got them.

I don't need, I'm leaving.

I'm going.

I got to go get my white robe and my little loft I'm going to have overlooking all the tears he done bottled up because there's a lot of them.

That's where I'm going to the holy, holy, holy.

Is that what we wear at white robes?

I don't know.

But he's saying all white.

Like, I was like, okay, cool.

I can get a monochromatic thing going on.

Damn.

I can't wait to go to heaven.

I love conflict now because, in my maturity, I can see that conflict is always the way forward to peace.

In our confessional community, we call it ruptures.

And oftentimes people think that it's the conflict or the rupture that ruins a relationship and it's not.

It's the lack of repair that does.

Because even in our confessional community, like we have had some ruptures.

And we have this saying now, it's never leaving the room, dot, dot, dot, without coming back.

Yeah.

Because sometimes you will need a break and you need to leave the room.

Sometimes you do need to have those transition conversations of like, hey, that was really hard for me.

It's triggered some things in me.

The story I'm telling myself is way different from what is actually happening.

And I need some time to like get myself together so I can come back.

I've even told friends like, I really deeply want to honor you and respect you.

And in this moment, I can't.

Because I'm so angry, because I'm so irritated, because I have some words.

I'm a little spicy.

He put a lot of spice in there.

And I just need some time, but I will come back in a day, in an hour.

And so, I just think we suck at it because no one's actually taught us how to do it.

And just wouldn't it be like the enemy, though?

Yeah, to take conflict and make it like a bad word.

Wow, it's not a bad word.

Jesus had conflict with so many.

Jesus had conflict with sweet Peter.

He didn't chop somebody's ear off, didn't try to kill somebody in the garden.

Hey, we don't do that.

Yeah, that's conflict.

Hey, that's we don't, you got to calm down.

Yeah, that's a like that's a conflictual conversation.

And I just think we've we've made it a dirty word, but it's ho holy and good.

Wow.

We find different things out.

We, in my opinion, and y'all may agree with this, and I hope everybody else agrees with this.

When you go through something hard with someone and you get on the other side and you repair it, it brings you closer.

Oh, absolutely.

The relationship changes.

You're like.

All right, you're not half bad.

And then there's less conflict in the future because you're getting to know each other in the hard things.

So now it's not like landmines that you can't see, but now we've talked about it.

Okay, why'd you respond in that way?

You didn't like it when I said that.

Okay, cool.

I'm not going to say that again.

I'm not going to say it in that way.

I'm not going to do that.

It's a part of getting to know each other.

And I love it.

Jesus has conflict with us.

Yeah.

Yeah, he does.

Hey, probably shouldn't have watched that, sweet girl, the Holy Spirit come and tap you like that in the morning.

You're like, what's up?

I think conviction is conflict.

Yeah.

It is.

What?

I'm doing so good looking.

No?

Okay.

I shouldn't have cursed her.

Okay, cool, cool, cool.

I didn't.

The road rage got me.

I'm so sorry.

I'm glad you talk on that because I think a lot of people will have, like friends, especially women, will have conflict and then they just, they just throw in the wreck and they give up on each other.

Well, I want to be honest, that was me.

So I used to say I have a detachment issue because I do.

Yeah.

And I, I, the only reason, again, why I can speak about this from a place of authority is because I've done it wrong so many times.

And I am definitely, my friend Emily, she will probably watch this and she's going to be like, yeah, you remember that one time you canceled our friendship and we just had a tiny little thing and I was like, it's okay.

I'll find another another friend.

Yeah, no, you can't do that.

You can't throwing people away.

We're not in the business of throwing people away.

Because you're going to have it.

You're going to go through things.

Well, you take you with you wherever you go.

That's right.

Wherever you go.

Wherever you go, whoever you're with, there you are.

And so the thing that you did, the ways that you talk, the stories and the baggage that you bring in is going to be brought into every single relationship.

Maybe practice maturity and sit in some conflict for a little while.

Yes, yes, yes.

I love that so much.

Counseling is the best thing ever because it shows you.

Changed me.

Oh, it changed me.

I want to marry my counselor.

She's a woman, but I wouldn't.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But that's how I feel.

Or adopt, have her adopt me.

Oh my gosh, that's a good idea.

Arley used to cry in her counselor's arms.

Oh, I did.

That's a story for another day because we have to go.

We have to go, guys.

Okay, okay.

Thank you so much.

Do you think that you could pray for the people?

Hey, Lord Jesus, thank you so much.

Just thank you.

With all the darkness and everything going on in our world at all times, really, it is a miracle that we're even just alive in this moment.

And so we just thank you for that.

We thank you for your presence, that it's tangible, that it's not just this mystical, mythical thing, but it is real and true.

We thank you, God, that for some odd reason, in all of our brokenness and sin, you have chosen us to do amazing things in this world, to raise children, to befriend your sons and daughters, to produce podcasts and write books, to manage traffic and to teach littles.

You have just quite literally called us to do life with each other and with you.

And that is a privilege that we don't want to take for granted.

So Lord, I just pray in the name of Jesus that maybe we just become more aware of you.

And that in our awareness, we would see that you love us, that you want deep relationship with us, that you want to talk to us like every day, all day long.

In our awareness, God, help us to be reminded that we were made for and designed for connection withness

to be with people to connect deeply with people and god in our awareness we pray that you remind us that we are worthy that we are called that we have been plucked out of obscurity and sin and you are calling us to heaven god help us to act like it help us to accept sanctification as a gift not a curse not something bad or a punishment but something that we get to do so that we can be in close relationship with you.

Be our guide and heal us, God.

We love you a whole bunch.

In Jesus' name, amen.

In Jesus' name,

thanks, Tony.

Thank you,

put her book in the description box.

Thank you.

And tell everyone where you can get the book.

Don't try this alone on all the things.

Amazon, tonyjcollier.com, all the things.

I hope you get it.

I hope it's helpful.

It will be.

It's going to do amazing things.

Thank you so much.

So blessed to have you today.

I love you guys so much.

May the Lord bless you and keep you.

May he make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you.

May he turn his face towards you and give you peace.

Shalom, shalom, baby.

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