Fix Your Mind w/Drs Les & Leslie Parrot

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Speaker 5 Hi, I'm Anne. And I'm Ari.
And this is Girls Gone Bible. And you guys know, if I'm on this side of the table, that we have really important, amazing guests on.

Speaker 5 And today we have two people who you guys already know: doctors Les and Leslie. Parrot, thank you guys so much for coming back to Time GG Beers.

Speaker 4 I know. Are there frequent flyer minds?

Speaker 4 That is so good. Do we get a free sub after we get our card checks?

Speaker 5 We'll get you a sandwich.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 5 We are so excited, you guys. First of all, you guys having a good day? You guys doing good?

Speaker 4 How are you doing? I'm doing good.

Speaker 5 How are you? Nice Donnie Wahlberg jacket.

Speaker 4 I'm loving it. Do what I can.
Stylish. Yeah.
Do what I can.

Speaker 6 You East Coasters.

Speaker 5 We are here to talk about this book. It's called Bad Thoughts, and it's written by...
Judith Smith. And I didn't look at it because I didn't know who it was written by, by the way.

Speaker 4 I didn't want you guys to see it. You're seeing it for the first time.

Speaker 5 Written by Les and Judith Smith. And we're so excited to talk about this book with you guys today because we love talking about the mind and thoughts.

Speaker 5 Ari and I have both dealt with intrusive thoughts and OCD and unwanted thoughts. And we've struggled up here a little bit at times.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 And so we're so excited. This is the perfect topic for our people.

Speaker 4 Well, can I tell you something about the cover of this book before we even get into the content? Because I am very proud of this. So

Speaker 4 you're rolling your eyes.

Speaker 5 No, but I do the microphone a little bit.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. So on the on the is this on the camera someplace? Hey, how come you guys have a

Speaker 4 camera? Okay, I'm good. Yeah, there we are.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 this is Judah, and that's me, right?

Speaker 4 Can you see that? Yeah. Yeah.
Well, so my editor.

Speaker 4 Not an art director. My editor said, hey, the art department wonders if you have a profile picture that you could send us.
I said, I don't have one.

Speaker 4 She said, just take one right now for a placeholder. So I literally, while we were on the phone,

Speaker 4 she was talking to me and I did a selfie. And that's the photo that they used on the cover.
And I said, hey, if you're going to use it, I want photo credits on the back of the book.

Speaker 4 So I'm more proud of the photo credits because I've never had that before.

Speaker 4 You are such a character. It's insane.

Speaker 5 Hang on, that's such a beautiful cover. So it's Judah's mind with all these like swirls and everything.
And then it's basically the relationship almost between a preacher and a shrink.

Speaker 5 That's kind of the tactic.

Speaker 4 Well, and that's the whole point. So Judah came to me,

Speaker 4 man, over a decade ago. And

Speaker 4 he and Chelsea, his wife, came to Leslie and me.

Speaker 4 And they just said, hey, we want to do some counseling with you guys. And I said, what's the issue? And he said, there's no issue.
And I said, what do you mean?

Speaker 4 I'm a psychologist. I'm used to people bringing problems to me.
And he said, no problems. He said, we just want to make sure there aren't any problems in the future.
And I said, absolutely.

Speaker 4 Let's do some work together. And so we did some marriage work.
And

Speaker 4 it was, and he'd seen, you know, some of his peers and stuff that tripped up in their efforts. And he said, I don't want to do that.
And so it was preventive intervention.

Speaker 4 But as it evolved, Jude and I began to do some one-on-one work together.

Speaker 4 And after a while, after actually a number of years, he said, you know, this is like changing the way I think, this work with you is changing the way I think.

Speaker 4 And he said, Would you ever be willing to put it in a book with me? And so that's what we did. That's the result of this thing.

Speaker 4 It's that's why it's called A Preacher and a Shrink's Guide to Reclaiming Your Mind and Soul. I told him when we were titling this, I said, A Preacher and a Shrink.

Speaker 4 It sounds like at the start of a bad joke, right?

Speaker 4 But it's a preacher and a shrink, like walk into your mind. That's really what this book is about.
And it's kind of,

Speaker 4 I think it's the book your brain doesn't want you to read

Speaker 4 because it's going to dismantle the toxic lies that you tell yourself and there's five of them that we talk we can get into this but the whole concept is to

Speaker 4 kind of do you know that your toxic thoughts literally carve a bra a groove into your brain like y and you they just become autopilot you don't think about them they just happen

Speaker 4 and so that's what we were doing our work on and I said hey Jude if we're gonna do this you're gonna have to be kind of vulnerable I mean, it's not typical for a preacher and a shrink when you're in therapy with me.

Speaker 4 We're going to write a book and you're going to tell everybody your problems. And it's not really that, but it really is a vulnerable book.
And that's how it came to be.

Speaker 5 That is so cool. This is so special.

Speaker 5 What else can you tell us first just about the contents of the book, like how it's structured?

Speaker 5 What is your favorite part in the way that it's structured?

Speaker 4 Well, the book, we did this survey of, we first came up with, you know, some of these thoughts that we'd been working on and counseling together. And

Speaker 4 we did a survey of about a thousand people and asked them how much they see this thought within their own.

Speaker 4 Thoughts are like, it's like self-talk, right?

Speaker 4 It's a way of having a conversation with yourself. And it's...
probably the most important conversation you ever have because it never turns off. It's 24-7.

Speaker 4 It happens even while you sleep, while you dream.

Speaker 4 You just have this conversation that is ongoing and you get to a place where you're not even conscious anymore of what you're saying.

Speaker 6 Is always there.

Speaker 4 It's always there, right.

Speaker 4 Imagine if you could, before you fell asleep tonight, you could just take a little computer chip out of the back of your head and put it in your laptop.

Speaker 4 and it would tabulate all the thoughts you had for the last 24 hours and simply label them as positive or negative. Imagine if that could be.

Speaker 6 Especially your self-talk.

Speaker 4 Your self-talk.

Speaker 4 Which bucket would be most full for you at the end of any given day? It's an interesting question, right?

Speaker 4 Well, some researchers at UCLA, not very far from the studio, said, let's study that. And they discovered that the vast majority, do you remember the percentage off the top of your head?

Speaker 6 It's 92%.

Speaker 4 Is it that high?

Speaker 4 But certainly the vast majority of our thoughts fall into the negative bucket on average. Wow.
Not everybody's, but on average, that's how it is.

Speaker 4 And so anyway, that's what this book is about. So we identified these five very predictable, almost ubiquitous.
We have these thoughts.

Speaker 4 The first one is, you know, all about, it says, take your last guilt trip and discover the road to grace. The next one is on the disease to please.
The next one is on self-doubt.

Speaker 4 The next one is on entitlement.

Speaker 4 That's

Speaker 4 probably the topic that is the most difficult to see in ourselves. Wow.
And not be blind to.

Speaker 4 And then the last one is all about earning credit to win God's love, which so many of us fall into that trap.

Speaker 6 Here's what I love about this because, you know, most of us, we know our inner struggle. We overhear that conversation every minute of every day, but we feel like it's super personal.

Speaker 6 And, you know,

Speaker 6 I think, I don't know if you guys have ever heard of Henry Nouwen or Henri Nouwen, he's a spiritual writer, but he just said that, you know, what we think is most personal to us is often the most universal thing that everybody identifies with and struggles with.

Speaker 6 And I think that's what the power of this is. Wow.
That you guys took the personal stories that came out. Right.
And then they're universal. We all connect with them.
Right.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Can you tell us a couple of them? Yeah.
Can we get into actually all of them?

Speaker 4 Because I love that first one, guilt. Yeah.

Speaker 5 I mean, how often do we experience guilt?

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah, we do.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Guilt is just

Speaker 4 a poison in our system. It really is.
Because guilt, first of all, is a selfish emotion.

Speaker 5 Wow.

Speaker 4 It's like a toothache. When you have a toothache, you can't think of anything else.
I can't, I just, I'm sorry. I can't even focus right now because my tooth hurts so bad, right? Guilt is like that.

Speaker 4 It's self-consuming. It's like taking mirrored sunglasses and taking the lenses out, flipping them around and putting them on your head and looking out at the world.

Speaker 4 And all you see is a reflection of your own needs everywhere you go. That's that's what happens psychologically with guilt.

Speaker 6 And it's such a disguise because guilt feels like it's about the other person. Maybe we feel like we failed or wronged.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 6 But honestly, it's more just about our own sense sense of who we are.

Speaker 4 Are we perfect?

Speaker 4 So we call the first chapter, you know, take your last guilt trip and discover the road to grace because grace is,

Speaker 4 you know, the antidote.

Speaker 4 It's the reward for cleansing our system of that kind of guilt.

Speaker 4 I had this weird experience, not weird, but kind of an unusual experience many years ago as a kind of a new psychologist. I was just out of graduate school and I went to this conference.

Speaker 4 It was a serious conference on laughter. All right.
Psychologists study laughter sometimes. And so it was a conference on laughter.
And it was at the Disneyland Hotel. And so there's this ballroom.

Speaker 4 There must have been about a thousand psychologists in there. And sounds like a real party.

Speaker 5 Is it just like super smart in the air?

Speaker 4 I was like, how are you doing? Well, let's sit down and talk about it.

Speaker 4 But if

Speaker 4 the very first speaker got up and

Speaker 4 he had kind of one message, but when we came in, there were three brightly colored pieces of cloth on each chair.

Speaker 4 And we didn't know what they were for, but he started to give this talk, and he says, I'm going to teach everybody in here how to juggle. And he was a physician.

Speaker 4 And he said, not to juggle your schedules, your patients, literally how to juggle. But he did it with all kinds of life lessons woven into it.

Speaker 4 And the very first one, I want to tell you, he said, I want you before we even begin, we're going to throw these, use these scarves because it's really easy to juggle scarves, they're slow.

Speaker 4 And so he said, But the very first step in learning to juggle is to take one of the pieces of cloth, hold it out at arm's length, and drop it. And we were like, What?

Speaker 4 I'm not going to drop it to the floor, you know. And he goes, We're not going anywhere until everybody does that.
So everybody kind of let these flutter down to the floor. And then he said,

Speaker 4 Ah,

Speaker 4 there. He said, Don't you feel better? You just got over your first guilt-free drop, right? A guilt-free drop.

Speaker 4 How many times have you wanted a guilt-free drop for yourself because of whatever happened in a relationship or something that you said that you regret or whatever it is?

Speaker 4 That's what grace, it's kind of a

Speaker 4 flippant way of saying that's what grace is about, a guilt-free drop. Wow.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 that's the root. That's kind of the goal of understanding this.
By the way, the Bible,

Speaker 4 do you know who said, Let your conscience be your guide?

Speaker 5 Do you know where that's? No, but I should.

Speaker 4 You think it was the Apostle Paul? Probably. Yeah.

Speaker 5 I was going to say Paul.

Speaker 5 It sounds smart.

Speaker 4 Well, it's not so smart because it was Jiminy Cricket who said it. See, how smart is it?

Speaker 4 Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 4 I think I'm wearing a Bible.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 so many people think that's from the Bible or something, right? Let your conscience be your guide. But it's not.
It's from Disneyland.

Speaker 5 Yeah, God would probably say, let the Holy Spirit be your guide, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah. And

Speaker 4 the whole, we don't come pre-packaged with what to feel guilty about. We learn what to feel guilty about.

Speaker 6 It's a human experience.

Speaker 4 From the church we were raised in or the home we were raised in or what our parents said to us.

Speaker 6 Yeah, like I might feel guilty about being late and you might not. Right.
Right. I mean, that's just

Speaker 6 literally us. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 I dwell. Yeah.

Speaker 5 I dwelled for the whole episode. I couldn't even function because I was 30 minutes late on accident.

Speaker 5 Whereas

Speaker 5 I could be a couple, like 15 years.

Speaker 4 She knows how to like,

Speaker 4 but you do know how to let go.

Speaker 5 Where I have a really hard time of letting go. I will dwell for weeks.
Weeks. Yeah.
I've gotten so much better.

Speaker 5 It can be consuming. Yeah.

Speaker 4 It can be consuming. Yeah.
Yeah.

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Speaker 5 app.com slash ggb right now to download the glorify app for free that's glorify dash app.com slash ggb to download the glorify app for free glorify dash app.com slash ggb the bible does talk about a different experience similar to guilt but different there's an alternative and scripture calls it godly sorrow

Speaker 4 and guilt is all about the past and godly sorrow is about the future how things are going to be different wow right and instead of punishing yourself godly sorrow propels you to be a better person.

Speaker 6 And guilt is self-absorbed. I am not what I should be, whereas godly sorrow is about the other person that's been offended.
Right. I want to set this right for you, with you.

Speaker 5 It's about you, not me. Well, this is so interesting because guilt is so many negative emotions are just so selfish.
Like guilt is so selfish.

Speaker 5 I love what you said about how when you feel guilty about something, it actually doesn't even have anything to do with like feeling sorry for the other person.

Speaker 5 You've just turned inward and now you're hating yourself because you didn't match up to what you hoped you would.

Speaker 4 Yeah, but it's not mature.

Speaker 4 It's not health giving.

Speaker 4 My favorite verse, I think, in all of scripture is Romans 8.

Speaker 4 There is therefore now no condemnation for who? Those of us that love Jesus, right?

Speaker 4 And no condemnation. That's guilt is all self-condemnation, self-condemnation, self-punishment.

Speaker 6 But to answer your question, you shouldn't feel guilty for feeling guilty.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 6 It's just that you should feel like there's a window of grace I can step out of. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 5 Like being in therapy, I had so much guilt. And going back to when I'm a child, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is why I feel this way.
And it just, it's insane. Yeah.

Speaker 4 That's why I say guilt is homegrown, right? Your conscience

Speaker 4 comes programmed with whatever was put into it. It's not from the Holy Spirit.
It's not from God, right?

Speaker 4 And so we learn what to feel guilty about. And some of the things that we feel guilty about are the result of false guilt.
It's not true.

Speaker 4 You shouldn't be feeling guilty about some things that you're feeling guilty about. So, yeah, so that's what this whole first chapter is about, is to free yourself

Speaker 4 from that self-condemnation.

Speaker 6 Especially stepping into grace.

Speaker 5 Yes. I feel like I have in the past because I have really overcome like guilty conscience.
And mine also, both of ours comes from like childhood stuff.

Speaker 5 And I feel like you guys would know this oftentimes that's bred and born in an environment of like a blame system. Like your parents blame you, your siblings blame you.

Speaker 5 Everyone's just blaming each other. So you learn to just feel guilty all the time.

Speaker 5 And I think for me, the past, you know, however many years of my life until I started doing this work, I would, it would make me feel good about myself to feel guilty, you know?

Speaker 5 Whereas I feel like it's righteous or something. Yeah.
And like I'm, oh, I'm a good person. I felt that for so long, like I'm a better person.

Speaker 5 I've done something that's hurt someone, but I'm a good person because I'm beating myself up so badly. So it's almost like this self-protecting thing.

Speaker 5 Whereas you meet Jesus and then he allows you to the gift of grace where you realize, like what you said, no condemnation. You don't feel guilty does nothing for anybody.

Speaker 5 It doesn't fix anything for you or the other person. So I love that we talk about that.

Speaker 4 And you hold on to it long enough, it petrifies, it turns into shame. Yeah.
So you don't just feel guilty about something you've done, you feel guilty about who you are.

Speaker 4 And that's really toxic. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 5 Oh, let's get free from guilt. That's amazing.
Do you think that guilt and obsessive, compulsive thinking are the request connection?

Speaker 4 Yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah.

Speaker 6 Because, you know, that OCD is complex, but there is a facet of it that is, if I just do it perfectly,

Speaker 4 everything will be okay.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Right. Which God heals because I, growing up, had major obsessive, compulsive thinking to the point where, like, I was so tormented in my mind.

Speaker 5 replay situations over and over, lived with an immense, yeah, ruminate all day, immense amount of guilt. And I have been healed so much from that where I never thought I would be healed.

Speaker 5 I thought I'd have to live with this for the rest of my life and be on medication. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Beautiful testimony. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Grace.

Speaker 5 Of grace, of grace. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Wow. So that's the first bad thought, you know, is that this idea of

Speaker 4 thinking that guilt is something that I need to carry around if I don't.

Speaker 5 That just freed so many people. Because I think we all have a misconception about what guilt is.
And yeah.

Speaker 4 No condemnation for for those of us that are in Christ Jesus. So the second one is

Speaker 4 about the disease to please.

Speaker 4 Have you ever suffered from the disease to please? Have you ever been a people pleaser? Yes.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 the disease to please

Speaker 4 to please.

Speaker 5 I think I have all of those.

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Speaker 4 To do anything that would risk that, to be rejected by somebody,

Speaker 4 is scary.

Speaker 4 And so,

Speaker 4 in fact, it was the very first thing that Jude and I, when we got into this work, that he was just, he couldn't say no.

Speaker 4 He just could not set a boundary. He couldn't say no to anybody.

Speaker 5 And he...

Speaker 6 And he would be the first to admit that.

Speaker 4 Oh, yes. Well, he admits it in this book, for sure.

Speaker 4 And,

Speaker 4 you know, so we worked on curing his disease to please.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 what happens is when we have this disease to please, we are no longer authentic.

Speaker 4 We're living in Pleasantville. Everything's just fine.
And we bury everything that's negative. And anything that is,

Speaker 4 you know, possibly going to cause friction. We just want to kind of sweep that away and just keep it pleasant.
And

Speaker 4 that you can't have an authentic relationship because it's only this deep. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And so, you know, we've talked before about how conflict is the price we pay for a deeper relationship. And conflict is something that people that suffer from this disease to please abhor.

Speaker 4 At all costs. Right.

Speaker 6 Yeah, and I think we've also talked a little bit about the power of attachment styles. And when you're anxious about attachment it feels like if I displease you I will lose you.

Speaker 6 And that's part of what makes us suffer from this disease to please.

Speaker 4 We have to be, you know, to have a real relationship, there has to be vulnerability. And vulnerability sometimes is scary to the other person because you're saying stuff that they don't want to hear.

Speaker 4 And if you suffer from the disease to please, you don't do that. What do you do? You wear a mask.
You become something that you're not. And so you act like everything's good when it really isn't.
Wow.

Speaker 4 And so it just becomes a pseudo-relationship, a false relationship.

Speaker 6 I love this because there is a story, a parable Jesus told about the disease to please. There are the brothers, and the dad asked two brothers, Will you do this assignment for me?

Speaker 6 And one of them said, Absolutely, I'll do it. And the other one said, Nope, not going to do it.
But the brother that said no, thought about it later, went back and did it.

Speaker 6 And the brother that said yes out of a desire, reflexive desire to please just didn't follow through because too many yeses didn't come from authenticity.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 6 And then Jesus said, who pleased the Father?

Speaker 6 And I think that's what happens to us. You know, we just reflexively want to say the right thing, but our heart might not be in it.
We might not be capable of it.

Speaker 4 And so it doesn't turn out to be a genuine, you know act of love yeah absolutely every relationship that we have starts at a at a really surface level just when we're getting to know somebody right and it's impression management we're trying to look a certain way come across in a way that they'll like us right it's shallow it's very shallow kind of pseudo yeah pseudo yes and uh how you do it's like the conversation you might have with somebody in the church foyer you know that you just see every once in a while how you doing oh great hey yeah how's that golf game going oh it's fantastic.

Speaker 4 How about you? Oh, it's good. We ought to go together sometime.
Yeah, let's do that, right? Okay. See you, man.
That's it, right? That's just, it's just an inch deep. There's nothing to do.

Speaker 4 It's friendly and

Speaker 4 nice. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 But let's say that same person, if you got in a car and drove from Los Angeles to Boston starting tonight, how long would it stay at that? pseudo-relationship

Speaker 4 not if you're real yeah right if you have the disease to please it stays there clear across the whole country, right?

Speaker 4 But eventually, if you're a real person, you go, hey, I'm not crazy about this music that we're listening to. Can I change the channel, you know? Or, hey, do you mind if I drive for a little while?

Speaker 4 Because, you know, whatever.

Speaker 4 You were so self-conscious about how you were driving last night.

Speaker 4 You have the disease to please when it comes to driving your car, don't you?

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah, because I know how I drive in L.A. and it's tough.
And I felt bad.

Speaker 6 You've never ridden with my husband.

Speaker 4 I know, you did. It's because we all flinch when we're in a car.
So we go like this.

Speaker 5 Ari lives.

Speaker 4 She drives over curves. Ari closes her eyes when I drive and has made me very insecure about my driving.

Speaker 5 I like lose years off my life every time I get on a car with her.

Speaker 6 Is that why you met here at the studio today?

Speaker 4 What? We'll drive together.

Speaker 6 Yeah. Oh, no.

Speaker 4 We'll drive together.

Speaker 4 I can't.

Speaker 4 So, pseudo-relationship.

Speaker 4 If you're together long enough and you start to get real, things get a little chaotic, right? And it feels like, oh, wow, what's going to happen here? This is like,

Speaker 4 this is awkward. This is, there's disequilibrium here.
Yeah. And there's no balance.

Speaker 6 We don't see this theological issue, IDA, or political perspective.

Speaker 6 We don't want to stop at the same place for food.

Speaker 4 Whatever it is, there's going to be something that we don't see eye to eye on, okay?

Speaker 4 And that little bit of chaos gets resolved generally when one or the other people in the relationship kind of empties themselves of their need to change that person.

Speaker 4 They go, okay, I'm not crazy about going to Mexican food, but if that's what you want, I can do that. Let's do it, right?

Speaker 4 I'm going to empty my need to go to Italian food or whatever. You know, I'm

Speaker 4 silly illustrations.

Speaker 5 Is that bad? No. Oh, that's not people pleasing, right?

Speaker 4 Well, it depends if that's your lifestyle of doing that, where you never want to exert your own desire and your own attitude or your own views or whatever, that's a problem.

Speaker 4 That's the disease to please. Okay.

Speaker 6 I'm glad you made that decision. Yeah, that's a really clarification.
That's not what he's talking about.

Speaker 4 That's a great clarification. Yeah.
What I'm talking about is

Speaker 4 in order to get to a deep relationship, there has to be some sense of emptying yourself to change the other person.

Speaker 6 But you had to risk being authentic for the chaos to even reveal itself. Wow.

Speaker 4 And by the way, sometimes the things that we empty ourselves of our need to change in another person,

Speaker 4 like just think of an important relationship to you right now. Everybody that's listening to us, think of an important relationship.

Speaker 4 There's something that you probably are thinking, man, I wish they would do this differently, right?

Speaker 4 If you emptied yourself of your need to change that in them, if you offered them a little grace and just went, I'm not going to say anything about how they do X, Y, Z.

Speaker 4 More often than not, that thing that irritates you has the opportunity to literally become the thing that endears you to them. Oh, wow.
It's a weird psychological phenomenon.

Speaker 6 And spiritual, I think. There's this, I think, a mystical grace component to it.

Speaker 6 Because when you accept someone

Speaker 6 right where they are with their differences from you, their flaws,

Speaker 6 you're offering grace. And that grace is transforming.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 I have a silly illustration of this that just came to mind. I haven't thought about this for a long time.

Speaker 4 When we first got married, Leslie, I remember I came into the kitchen and she was cutting carrots. And the way that she was cutting the carrots just was

Speaker 4 left-handed.

Speaker 5 I don't care. I am too.

Speaker 4 I never mean lefty.

Speaker 6 I don't do things the normal way, right?

Speaker 4 But it just looked like, oh man, you're going to, I just said, you're going to, you know, cut yourself the way you're cutting carrots like that. You need to do it this way.

Speaker 4 Like, I'm teaching her how to cut. This is literally me and you.
I know. No.
It's actually hilarious. It's actually mean art.

Speaker 5 she would literally be like i need to show you how to cut the carrots

Speaker 4 i would and leslie wants to please me so she cuts carrots the way and she's receptive but then i come back a week later she's cutting carrots their same old way you know i would want to do it for you while you were watching but later i wouldn't be thinking about it just revert back to whatever

Speaker 4 and um and so anyway this went on for a while and finally i just kind of got to a place where i just went hey that's just how how she cuts carrots. You know, that's just, I'm going to empty myself.

Speaker 4 I didn't consciously say that, but you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 And the strange thing is that somewhere in the course of our marriage, it's almost like I would be disappointed if she wasn't cutting carrots her way.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean? Like, that's how my Leslie cuts carrots. You know, it's just a silly illustration.

Speaker 4 That's how my Sarah cuts carrots.

Speaker 5 No, we do have things like that, though.

Speaker 4 We do.

Speaker 5 For example, can I say one?

Speaker 5 My biggest, my biggest pet peeve in the world, not my biggest pet peeve, but yeah, I guess, was always when I first met Ari, I couldn't understand why, and we practically lived together for the first two years that we were friends until I moved.

Speaker 4 Ari

Speaker 5 opens like ketchup or honey or something, but like, just like leaves it there and doesn't put the top back on.

Speaker 5 It's way more convenient than it's so convenient. And when I, when I first became friends with her, I, it would make me like lose my my mind and I would tell her.
Or she would tweak out.

Speaker 5 And it's not even my house.

Speaker 4 It's not even my house.

Speaker 5 And I'd be like, oh, you can't do this. Like, you can't do this.
And I'm not even kidding. Over time, I was just at our house yesterday.
Or yeah, I stayed there last night.

Speaker 5 I saw something open on the counter when I got home at your house at midnight.

Speaker 4 And I go, I love her so much. I literally go.
I love her so much.

Speaker 6 And kind of be disappointed if it wasn't.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 So funny. Here's my new thing with Leslie.

Speaker 6 What is it? it

Speaker 4 you're gonna be surprised probably

Speaker 4 so we have dark you've been in our home we have dark wooden floors and um oh i don't think this is gonna surprise you this this blonde hair oh can be everywhere i shed like i'm a shame

Speaker 4 yeah you know yeah but i got a uh i got a uh what's the name of that

Speaker 4 dyson i got a dyson too

Speaker 5 i mean with that light on it yes with the light on it with the light on it So you see everything.

Speaker 6 Okay, wait. You're talking about the hairstyle, which is good, but he's talking about a vacuum.

Speaker 5 You're talking about a vacuum.

Speaker 4 Okay. What was she talking about? I said the Farah Faucet bang.

Speaker 5 Come on.

Speaker 4 You bought me a Dyson bag. Ariel, you think

Speaker 4 Dyson bang is

Speaker 4 like a thing that cut your hair?

Speaker 6 No, it's like a beautiful style, a

Speaker 4 wire curl.

Speaker 4 I'm not in my jacket.

Speaker 4 All I know is that when we got this vacuum a month ago and it has this light, I'm like, man, you need to brush your hair more because I love vacuuming.

Speaker 4 Wait, that's so real, though.

Speaker 6 Try not to be satisfied with John what's going on.

Speaker 4 Just, Lord, please bring me someone that takes joy in that. That is really

Speaker 4 sweet. That's sweet.

Speaker 5 Well, John told me recently, his,

Speaker 5 he told me recently that something that's been really endearing for him because I moved and so I got all new furniture.

Speaker 5 But I'm somebody who I have to have a piece of furniture and then let it sit in my house for a couple of days. And then nine out of ten times I'll return it.
And so that's.

Speaker 4 And he finds this material sweat.

Speaker 5 At first, at first he was starting to get a little bit because I'd be like, baby, can you please come? Like, I'm so sorry. It's a big box.

Speaker 5 And can you come bring it to UPS and send it back for me and the first couple of times he's like what is like trying to change be like you don't need to do that you don't need to try out that just see if you like it on the website and you don't need to like audition it in your home and I'm like yes I do I have to know if it fits in the space and he told me recently he was talking to his friend and was like yeah Angela does a lot of weird things like for example she loves buying furniture and then returning it in two days and I have to walk up her stairs box it up for her walk it downstairs and then pay $80

Speaker 5 to ship it out for her. And he's like, and I do it with a smile on my face because it's just like, that's her.

Speaker 6 That is beautiful.

Speaker 5 You know, oh my gosh, she's perfect.

Speaker 4 Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 That is sweet.

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Speaker 4 and that's an incredible safe space to be in but you can't get there via the disease to please yeah because you never risk the authenticity to be accepted in your worst moment So people have to see your dark side.

Speaker 4 People have to see, you know, parts of you that you don't want them to see in order for you to really be loved.

Speaker 4 Otherwise, you're just wearing a mask all over the place and everybody's just loving the impression that you give. Wow.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 That's great. Yeah.
So that's the second chapter. Cure the disease to please.
and cultivate authentic relationships. So, all right.
So that's the first one, guilt. Second one, disease of pleas.

Speaker 4 You want to keep going on this? Absolutely.

Speaker 5 This is perfect.

Speaker 4 All right. Come on.

Speaker 5 I could spend hours on each one, like with the examples. We should try to give examples in them.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Because for me, it helps me, even though everyone probably understands.

Speaker 4 No,

Speaker 4 I'm like a kindergarten sometimes. You know what you could do? Read the book.
Yeah. You could read the book.

Speaker 4 She read the book. She read the book.

Speaker 4 Everybody's picturing your

Speaker 6 capless containers and your boxed-up furniture. Oh, yeah.
Such good examples.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you're right. We did give good examples.

Speaker 4 So chapter three is extinguish self-doubt and rekindle your courage.

Speaker 4 Extinguish self-doubt.

Speaker 4 Give us an example.

Speaker 4 So self-doubt. Well, have you ever doubted yourself? Yeah.
We all do, right? Yeah. And we have feelings of insecurity and

Speaker 4 helplessness and like, I don't think I can, there's nothing. What can I do? Right.
and we lose all sense of our courage have you ever heard the name Martin Seligman?

Speaker 4 He's a psychologist probably the most influential living psychologist these days

Speaker 4 He was like the president for a while of the American Psychological Association that kind of influence big time psychologist University of Pennsylvania but just as a graduate student he did this groundbreaking study

Speaker 4 that sounds a little cruel, but it's I'll explain it's not.

Speaker 4 But it had to do with some dogs. And during the time, you've heard of B.F.
Skinner, behaviorism. Is that no, no problem? No.

Speaker 5 We probably don't know most of the people you guys know.

Speaker 4 I wish we do.

Speaker 4 But B.F. Skinner came up with this whole thing called behaviorism and kind of a philosophy about how people learn to be who they are by getting reinforced.

Speaker 6 If you're a journal reward or a reinforcement, you tend to do that thing more.

Speaker 4 So anyway, that was really popular in the 70s martin seligman kind of came through graduate school at that time and so he was doing this experiment with these dogs on behaviorism and rewards and so forth and so he had this thing called a shuttle box it was a just a box that the but the dog would be in with a little partition um and what he was doing was have the dog sit on this side of the the shuttle box and you know how like sometimes when you touch a doorknob on a winter day it can shock you a pretty mild shock but enough that you want to avoid it.

Speaker 4 He would have a little metal plate in the bottom, and their little paws would feel that level of a shock. And most dogs just jump over the little barrier and go to the other side.

Speaker 4 So all he was doing was measuring how many trials did it take for him to do that, for the dog to do it. Oh, okay.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Now I will get the shock.

Speaker 4 Right. And then they would associate it with a buzzer or a bell or something like that.
And then even without a shock, just hearing the bell, they would go over it.

Speaker 4 It's just a kind of standard psychological study. But in the course of the study, he discovered there was a handful of dogs that weren't jumping over the barrier.
Three, four, ten, twelve trials.

Speaker 4 They would just sit down and take the shock again and again.

Speaker 4 And he was like, could not understand what's wrong with these dogs.

Speaker 4 And it wasn't until another experimenter kind of entered the scene and said, oh, Marty, he said these dogs were used in an experiment a while ago where they couldn't jump jump over the barrier.

Speaker 4 They weren't allowed to jump over the barrier. It was for a different, a whole different study.
And what he realized is these dogs had fallen victim to what he called learned helplessness.

Speaker 4 Learned helplessness. And this was a revolutionary thought that we can learn to be helpless.

Speaker 4 And if you think about it, another example, toward the end of World War II in concentration camps, what they discovered, they went in to rescue all these prisoners that were just in dire straits.

Speaker 4 And what they realized is they could have easily walked out of the camps at that stage, but they didn't because they just learned you can't escape, right? Learned helplessness.

Speaker 4 So those are physical examples. But we do that in our head all the time.
And we,

Speaker 4 yeah, to ourselves, that's why it's a toxic thought,

Speaker 4 is that, and it dismantles our capacity to have courage in our lives. Because, oh, nobody in my family's ever gone to college, so I can't go to college.

Speaker 4 You know, we just put perimeters on ourselves and think it's impossible to do. When it's not, we've just learned to be helpless.
Wow.

Speaker 6 Because we feel like something's wrong with us,

Speaker 6 it will never change. Right.

Speaker 6 We take it personally. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And if you take something personally, there's three things, and this goes to depression too, by the way. This is the making of clinical depression.

Speaker 4 You take something personal, you believe it's pervasive, and it's permanent. You believe those three things, you're going to get depressed.
Something happens. You fail an exam.

Speaker 4 Well, it's because I'm an idiot. I'm stupid.
All right.

Speaker 4 That's step one towards depression.

Speaker 6 Which is really different than saying, oh, you know, I didn't have a chance to study. Life didn't allow me enough time.
I can make a different choice. I can have a different result.
Right.

Speaker 6 That would be a very different choice.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 4 Or that the test was incredibly hard and the professor's unfair even or whatever, right?

Speaker 4 But you internalize it. You personalize it.

Speaker 4 And then that it's pervasive. In other words, I think I failed this exam, it's going to impact everything in my life.
I'm not going to pass this course.

Speaker 4 If I don't pass this course, I'm going to lose my scholarship. If I don't have my scholarship, I'll never be able to finish college, whatever it is.

Speaker 4 You just extrapolate and make this, yes, you just spiral out of control.

Speaker 4 Personal, pervasive. And then it's permanent.
It's always going to be this way. There's nothing I can do about it.
If you buy into those three beliefs, you have the makings for clinical depression.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 4 If you hold on to them, right? And we all do those to some degree some of the time. But if you have that pattern, that's what I talk about.

Speaker 6 You can found self-doubt.

Speaker 4 Exactly. Wow.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you just, you won't have courage to do much of anything.

Speaker 5 So what's the antidote to that?

Speaker 4 How do you break out of it?

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 4 the real solution is to change your thinking, right? That's what this book is all about.

Speaker 4 And to change, to reroute the grooves and so you no longer think of things as personal or pervasive or permanent so you say to yourself just like leslie was saying hey i just didn't have what it took to study for this exam it doesn't mean i'm a failure yeah i failed the exam i feel badly about that but doesn't mean i'm an idiot yeah okay so i climb out of that one

Speaker 4 and it's not pervasive Yeah, if I keep failing, I'm going to have a real problem. But just because I failed one exam doesn't mean it's the end of the world.
I can keep going, right?

Speaker 4 It's the self-talk. It's just what we're feeding ourselves to.

Speaker 6 And so

Speaker 6 you lean into optimism, but the Apostle Paul called it hope, right? I mean, that's what we call it in the Bible, right? It's just

Speaker 6 not allowing that. that script of self-doubt to become your truth.

Speaker 5 Yeah, absolutely. And bringing every single one of those thoughts.

Speaker 5 2 Corinthians 10, 5 says, you demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and you take every thought captive

Speaker 5 and make it obedient to Christ.

Speaker 5 And so, literally, taking, doing everything that you just said in the context of prayer time, bringing it to Jesus and having those conversations with the Holy Spirit and being like, Lord, I'm coming out of agreement with these lies.

Speaker 5 Like, I'm done believing these limiting, restricting beliefs that I am this way because of my family, so I'll never be this, X, Y, Z.

Speaker 5 And just like absolutely eradicating all of those lies and saying, I'm not like, and I think what you're alluding to also is like awareness is curative, like to be aware of what's going on in your mind.

Speaker 5 Because you mentioned this earlier, I think, where like you have so many thoughts, and almost all of them are negative, and you're not even aware of what you're thinking.

Speaker 5 And you have this script going on in your head, and it's been your whole life. So, you don't even think to challenge what's happening in your own mind.

Speaker 5 And I think what's been pivotal for me personally is just being like noticing a thought and being like,

Speaker 5 I don't have to agree with that.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 5 That doesn't have to be true. Take it captive.
Take it captive enough. And like, yeah, so that's really profound.

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Speaker 4 You know that we've talked on another occasion about this class lesson. I used to teach on relationships and we had this sentence that we would start the class with.

Speaker 4 If you try to build a relationship with somebody else before you've done the difficult work of getting whole on your own, all your relationships become an attempt to complete yourself.

Speaker 4 The last time we taught that class, a student came up to me and I was kind of at the podium and kind of getting my computer set up and he goes, hey, Dr. Parrott, he said,

Speaker 4 can I talk to you for a second? I said, yeah.

Speaker 4 He said, you know, that last lecture you gave a week ago, he said, that was really meaningful to me. I said, hey, thanks, man.
Really appreciate that.

Speaker 4 He goes, no, no, no, you have no idea what this meant to me. He said, if you understood the home that I grew up in and how I've kind of been beaten down and

Speaker 4 I lost like courage, like I'm barely, you know, to be here here on this campus has been a huge thing for me. And he's just going on, he's telling this story.

Speaker 4 And he goes, that sentence that you gave me, he says, it's like, it's like really revolutionary for me. And I said, man,

Speaker 4 I've never had a compliment like this on a lecture before. This is, thank you for sharing that.
He goes, can I show something to you? I said, yeah, what?

Speaker 4 And he lifted up his t-shirt and he had this sentence tattooed on his rib cage.

Speaker 4 I kind of wanted to say, hey, I have better things things than that to say. Hold on before you tattoo stuff.
But doesn't that speak volumes about

Speaker 4 what some of us need? Like, we don't have to tattoo it on our skin, but we need that tattooed on our soul, on our brain

Speaker 4 to be released from that so we can regain our courage

Speaker 4 and find that capacity to not surrender to self-doubt, to learned helplessness. Wow.

Speaker 5 Wow. The learned helplessness is crazy.
I I can't imagine how many people. Would you also kind of equate that to victim mentality a little bit?

Speaker 5 Would that be similar?

Speaker 4 That's actually the next one.

Speaker 4 That's a great setup. The next one is we call it step off your high horse and walk in another shoes.
And this is all about entitlement. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And when we were writing the book, we really debated on whether to include this because what we found, you know, we have this little thing where we survey people and it shows, you know, which one is, you know, most

Speaker 4 troublesome to you and so forth. And you see, there's, you know, it shows the percentage of everybody.
And then we get to entitlement, wherever it is. And it's like, just like, yeah, here it is, 12%.

Speaker 4 Whereas, you know, 40 and 50% say, you know, needy talk and unworthy talk and insecure talk. Entitlement, not many of us admit to that.
But this is that idea of feeling like life owes me.

Speaker 4 Life should be fair. Well, guess what, friends? Life is not fair.
Not for you and not for anybody else.

Speaker 4 And if you think it's supposed to be fair for you in spite of anybody else's problems, you're walking down the pathway of entitlement.

Speaker 4 And that's a toxic thought.

Speaker 4 Entitlement is...

Speaker 4 I wish we could pass laws in Congress against it. Do you know? It's just not a healthy thing at all.

Speaker 4 And mostly, it dismantles our capacity to see somebody else's perspective.

Speaker 4 Think about that. You know, now we all have this little thing entitle.
You know, we were talking earlier about airlines and accumulating miles and all that stuff.

Speaker 4 And you get status and you get to board the plane first or you get whatever. And when you travel a lot, and you are accustomed to having, oh, I get to go on the plane first.

Speaker 4 If you don't, oh, well, what's going on around here? I need to speak to the manager. You know what I mean? You get that kind of sense of entitlement.
We all have that.

Speaker 4 I'm talking about, though, the person that just has a groove in their brain and they can't seem to get out of it because life owes them something.

Speaker 6 I think this is where faith can be such a gift.

Speaker 5 Totally.

Speaker 6 You know, like the story of Joseph in the Old Testament, it's so profound to me that he's able to say, you meant it for my harm, but God meant it for my good.

Speaker 6 And if you can refocus even on the thing that you thought would be fair

Speaker 6 and that you would just deserve in life and it's not happening. And you can say, even if I'm right, I should, shouldn't have been treated this way.
I'm going to trust underneath it is God's love.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 6 God means it for my good, will work it for my good. And it just takes you out of that place where you act the victim.

Speaker 6 Instead, you can say, you know, I'm going to receive whatever the gift is you have for me in this. Yeah.
You wouldn't choose this, but where's the gift?

Speaker 5 Because entitlement just leads to a hole of depression, right? Because you're like, I need this. I should have this.
And then you just sink, right?

Speaker 5 Where if you change that thought, you actually, it gets you through, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah. And let's do a little thought exercise.
What would make you happy? Like, if you could do something.

Speaker 6 If you could push a magic button kind of thing.

Speaker 4 Like later this afternoon, you're just like you had an hour to make yourself happy. What are you going to do? Are you going to watch a favorite TV show, play a video game? Doom scroll.
Doom scroll.

Speaker 4 That's fun.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's fun.

Speaker 4 You know,

Speaker 4 when we think about what will make us happy, we think about, oh, I want some ice cream. Yeah.
I'm going to get some Benajeris. I'm going to, whatever the thing is.
Shopping, shopping.

Speaker 5 Shopping is a good idea.

Speaker 4 Free heats.

Speaker 4 Vacuuming hair off the floor.

Speaker 4 Soufflé at the pole a lot.

Speaker 4 Hey, it's getting personal now.

Speaker 4 But, you know, we think about indulgences, finding pleasure in something that's going to make us happy. But there was another interesting study where they had people

Speaker 4 do exactly that. And then

Speaker 4 whatever it is that would make them happy. They spent an hour doing that.

Speaker 4 And then they did another

Speaker 4 day and did that same hour. But now you're going to add value to somebody else's life.

Speaker 4 Wow. That means being generous.
It doesn't mean you have to necessarily spend money, but you're going to add value to somebody else's life. Volunteer your time to help somebody.

Speaker 4 Maybe it's just standing at it and opening up the door for a bunch of people and just like being whatever the thing is, but add value to somebody else.

Speaker 5 It really does make you happy when you do those things.

Speaker 4 Exponentially.

Speaker 4 so the experimenters found when we did the thing that we thought would make us happy it was very temporary there's a little hit yeah a little dopamine hit um the percentage but when you're generous when you're when you're actually considering other people's needs and trying to meet those needs your your kindness is i coming down here on the flight yesterday uh we've talked about miles again i don't want to keep coming back to this but because of our miles on alaska they come by and they give you these special little chocolates, all right?

Speaker 4 But you're sitting around other people, it's the weirdest thing because not everybody gets the chocolate, exclusive, it feels crazy, yes.

Speaker 4 And so, there was this young woman that was sitting on the other side of us, and I talked to her earlier, and she was a PhD student at the University of Washington. And she saw her reading a textbook.

Speaker 4 Did you see me do this?

Speaker 6 Yeah, I saw you do it. You gave away my chocolate.

Speaker 4 I did,

Speaker 4 which I knew I wasn't going to want. I knew you wouldn't eat it.

Speaker 6 And I didn't think to offer it.

Speaker 4 He is something else.

Speaker 4 I ate mine. And I said, hey, would you like this one?

Speaker 4 But I know it was so good. It made her feel good.

Speaker 4 She said, really?

Speaker 4 Oh, she is.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it was so cute. But it kind of made me feel good.
I know. We didn't talk about it, but you know what I mean.

Speaker 6 It's better than eating your own.

Speaker 4 It did, actually. That's a great illustration.

Speaker 6 It's so genuine. Yeah.

Speaker 4 We should have put that in the book. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Yeah. I can't believe you're saying this because I would say I'm in a little bit of a, what is it called? Entitlement.
Entitlement with my singleness right now.

Speaker 5 You know, I've been having a couple moments here and there being like,

Speaker 6 I shouldn't be in a bad thing.

Speaker 5 I should be like, it's time. And

Speaker 5 it's made me sink into a depression. And then I do fleeting things like doom scroll and disassociate and do these things.
Right.

Speaker 5 And I just said on the phone last night out to one of my girlfriends, I said, I think I need, I think I know what I need to do to gain real happiness.

Speaker 5 I need to go help kids again because that's the one thing that fulfills me, like helping kids.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 5 And I can't believe you're saying that.

Speaker 4 It's so interesting, isn't it?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 6 You really had that discernment.

Speaker 4 Mm-hmm. It's huge.
Wow. Well, pleasure versus generosity.
Yeah, great.

Speaker 4 But that's if you're looking for the antidote to

Speaker 4 entitlement, that's what it is.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Start to give your life away. Yes.
And those are the happiest people on the planet.

Speaker 5 It gets you through your depression.

Speaker 5 yeah and you take the focus off yourself got me through all of my hard times it's insane yeah yeah oh man your boss and accent really came out on that hard times did i say they're like that

Speaker 4 it is so lovable i like it is my favorite thing about her

Speaker 5 it's it's got to be the worst accent of all time right

Speaker 4 so one more yeah how's our time you want to get to one more yeah let's do this last one all right so we've talked about guilt we've talked about the disease to please, and we've talked about self-doubt and entitlement.

Speaker 4 The last one is, in my opinion, the most important one.

Speaker 4 The title is Quit Earning Credit with God and Receive His Gift of Love.

Speaker 4 And if you don't get this one right, the rest are pretty difficult. Wow.
Because ultimately, our

Speaker 4 love

Speaker 4 is

Speaker 4 not earned and it's not from somebody else. It's from God.

Speaker 4 And when you have that, all the other ones get a whole lot easier. So

Speaker 4 the problem is so many of us think I'm not worthy. I need to do something to prove.

Speaker 4 I haven't used this illustration for a long time, but I remember I was at a hotel in Chicago once, and I was speaking, and I had this little break, and I was getting a bite to eat, and through the glass partition in the restaurant, I could see the swimming pool.

Speaker 4 And I saw this scenario played out where there was this businessman, and he was in his suit, but you could could tell he brought his little boy along on the trip.

Speaker 4 And his boy is splashing around in the pool. He gets out of the pool and the dad's sitting there reading the Chicago Tribune or something.
And the kid gets out of the pool.

Speaker 4 He stands on the edge of the pool and he looks at his dad. Do you know what he says?

Speaker 4 Daddy, daddy, watch me, watch me. And

Speaker 4 the father pulls down the paper. He jumps in.
Hey, that's great. Good jump, son.
Back to it. Do you know what the kid did next? Got out of the pool, went to the exact same place.

Speaker 4 You know what he said to his dad? Hey, dad, watch me. Daddy, daddy, watch me, watch me.
Kids do that, don't they? Exactly, right? Hey, that's a good jump. Way to go.

Speaker 4 And I just saw this. He did that several times, you know.
And I just thought, how many times do we do that in our own spiritual walk with God? Wow. Father, Father, watch this.

Speaker 4 This is going to be good. I'm really going to get some credit for this one.
Look how I'm setting my needs aside here, right?

Speaker 4 You're going to really give me some credit here, right? This is like extra credit, right? And we really want to earn that from God. And of course, God's never asked us for that.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 The love is given. That's just

Speaker 4 there.

Speaker 6 It's not achieved.

Speaker 4 Nice.

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Speaker 6 Nice. I mean, it's not, God's love is not connected to our performance.

Speaker 4 Wow, yeah.

Speaker 6 We sometimes feel God's love more when we think we've done a good job.

Speaker 6 Nothing has changed. If we've done the worst day, God's love hasn't changed.
Wow.

Speaker 5 Thank you for saying that.

Speaker 4 I have a friend, and

Speaker 4 he's in heaven now, but he was one of my mentors. His name is Gary Smalley.

Speaker 4 And Gary, when we would speak together, I remember at the Rose Garden in Portland, big arena, and we were speaking to a bunch of folks.

Speaker 4 And he got up on the very first night of the conference, and he had a $100 bill. And he says, who wants the $100 bill? The place goes, no, it's I want it, you know.

Speaker 4 And he said, I'm going to give this to somebody. in just a few minutes, but I want to do something first.
And he took the dollar bill and he crumbled it up in his hand.

Speaker 4 And he says, It's all crumbled up. Who wants it now? I still want it.
Yeah, I'll take it. You know, throw it to me.
And he goes, hold on, I'm not done.

Speaker 4 And he put it on the on the ground and he put his foot on it and he's smashing it in like that. And he pulls it up.
Does anybody still want it? Yeah, we all want it. And then he spits on it.

Speaker 4 And he puts it back on the ground. And does anybody still want it? Yes, I'll still take the $100 bill, right?

Speaker 4 And he said, that's just like your Heavenly Father. He wants you to.

Speaker 6 Yeah, because your value hasn't changed.

Speaker 4 Your value hasn't changed.

Speaker 5 Thank you for saying that because one of the biggest things, even as we're on tour and asking people,

Speaker 5 we said to the audience, We were like, How many of you feel like God is mad at you? And mostly everyone raised their hand.

Speaker 6 Yeah, ache.

Speaker 5 Something we talk about a lot. And I can even relate to that, you know, that condemning voice of, oh my gosh, I didn't read my Bible enough today.
Are you mad at me?

Speaker 5 I mean, I said three times last night, I was like, I'm sorry, Jesus. And while it's good to have the fear of God, it also can be very unhealthy when you constantly feel condemned in your mind.

Speaker 5 You have this voice in your mind that's like, he's mad. He's mad.
Did I say the wrong thing? It's like no way to live. And I feel like so many people are living that way.

Speaker 5 Like, I have to be this perfect person. I have to, it's a real thing that we don't talk about enough.

Speaker 5 And I would say, you know, I've been doing this thing for two and a half years and I'm still learning and growing, but like I still go through this where I still feel like if I do one wrong thing, like I have that condemning voice sometimes.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Yeah. So that's really good to touch on that.

Speaker 4 I was just checking it in the book because I wrote this story that's so similar to that. Wow.
And

Speaker 4 it's about a professor that you know.

Speaker 4 And he would ask the class, and this is a seminary class of

Speaker 4 future

Speaker 4 Bible teachers. And he'd say, the question he was asked, how many of you have been conscious of God's love for you

Speaker 4 personally

Speaker 4 in the last week? Raise your hand. You've been conscious of God's love for you.
And very few hands go up.

Speaker 4 And then he would ask the second question, how many of you have been conscious of God's disapproval of you this week?

Speaker 4 Every hand goes up. Isn't that wild? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 are these are the professionals yeah yeah gonna teach us how to understand the Bible yeah and they feel like that as well yeah yeah it's a struggle which you know breaks God's heart

Speaker 5 I know love is right there I know not connected with our performance I know nothing changes and you go back to all the times you feel most loved it was when you were at the bottom of the pit and you felt worthless and you were in sin and yeah that's when he meets you and it's so yeah it's it's a struggle that we need to keep talking about.

Speaker 5 What do you think? Why do you think so many people feel this way? A constant condemning voice. What do you think is the root of it?

Speaker 4 It's the pre-programming of the brain, right? You are what you think.

Speaker 4 And we were programmed from day one by hearing what messages we were around in our homes.

Speaker 6 And because God's love is so unique,

Speaker 6 unconditional. We've never actually experienced it on exactly on a human level.
It's rare and precious. Right.

Speaker 6 But it's always available to us at the ground of our being.

Speaker 4 What is it in Ephesians where Paul talks about, you know, try to measure God's love.

Speaker 4 Measure its depth, its heights, its lengths, right? It's so extravagant.

Speaker 4 God's love is just so extravagant. We can't compare it to any earthly love that we have.

Speaker 4 But that's why we close the book with this because it's, you know, even though it's the most important, we wanted to kind of lean, lead up to it because this, this one ultimately is the greatest challenge for all of us to accept God's love.

Speaker 4 That's so true.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Thank you for writing this. This is so important for people.

Speaker 4 Well, with thoughts. I appreciate you saying that.
This is the list. Unworthy talk.
Needy talk, insecure talk,

Speaker 4 entitled talk, and then finally, unlovable talk.

Speaker 5 And this is the talk that we have in our own minds. Guys, you have to get this book.
You have to, like, genuinely, you have to read this

Speaker 5 because

Speaker 5 there are so many people who are suffering when they don't need to be. They're suffering, and they're a victim to the thoughts in their mind when our thoughts are under the authority of Jesus.

Speaker 5 And it's just no way to live. And we don't have to live like that.
We don't have to live absolutely tormented with this unworthy, insecure, unlovable self-talk.

Speaker 6 That's right. I love how Jesus said, when you know the truth, the truth will set you.

Speaker 5 Exactly. Yes.

Speaker 4 And just psychologically, I want to make sure people understand it begins with your thoughts. So many people think, oh, I need to feel a certain way, and then I'll think differently.
Wow.

Speaker 4 And that's just not true. Your thoughts.

Speaker 4 are the catalyst

Speaker 5 awesome to know

Speaker 4 and we get it backwards so often right Wow. And that's why

Speaker 4 take every

Speaker 4 thought captive. That's why you can change how you feel.
You can literally change how you feel. So good.
Depending on what you think.

Speaker 4 And that's why one person can have a certain experience failing in an exam, for example, and have a terrible feeling.

Speaker 4 And another person can go, well, it wasn't great, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Oh, that's awesome.
It's your thinking. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Let me read this. This is when you eliminate,

Speaker 4 these are the

Speaker 4 five things that I just mentioned, but I want to make sure people get the payoff for each one. So if you eliminate unworthy talk, you enjoy more grace.
Wow. Right.
Because this is all about guilt.

Speaker 4 If you eliminate needy talk, you enjoy more authenticity because now you have

Speaker 4 real depth, no longer the pseudo-relationship.

Speaker 4 If you eliminate insecure talk, you have more courage to step beyond the learned helplessness that you've fallen victim to,

Speaker 4 all in your head. If you eliminate entitled talk, you enjoy empathy because now you're focused not just on what brings you pleasure, but how I can add value to somebody else's life.

Speaker 4 And then ultimately, if you eliminate unlovable talk, self-talk,

Speaker 4 you enjoy more

Speaker 4 love.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 4 That's great.

Speaker 5 This is absolutely amazing. Thank you, Jesus.
Thank you, both. Thank you, Les.
Thank you, Leslie. Guys, you know what to do.
We're going to go get bad thoughts and we're going to fix our brains.

Speaker 4 There we are.

Speaker 4 Oh.

Speaker 4 I'm so sorry.

Speaker 4 I'm so sorry.

Speaker 4 That's part of this whole interview is

Speaker 5 you telling Les that he uses a Dyson.

Speaker 5 Did you not picture him using the Dyson?

Speaker 4 Doing like that. There's not even

Speaker 4 product in this hair.

Speaker 4 It's ridiculous. Hey, you know what just occurred to me when you bumped her on the head? I'm so sorry.

Speaker 4 It just occurred to me. It was a love.
A love. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 4 We have the same,

Speaker 4 we have the same literary agent. And I don't know if she did this for you, but when this book came out, she sent me a box of cookies that had the...

Speaker 5 Nope, she didn't do that for us.

Speaker 4 She didn't do that for you?

Speaker 4 Okay, well,

Speaker 4 you missed out. Are you sure?

Speaker 5 Or somebody sent us cookies.

Speaker 4 So I got a box of cookies that had bad thoughts on it. And so now I'm going to eat my bad thoughts.
Oh, I love that.

Speaker 4 Eat your bad thoughts. Don't think them.
Eat them. That's right.
Let's go figure out how this connects you to the best.

Speaker 4 Now I get it.

Speaker 5 All right, everybody. Bad thoughts.
We love you so much. May the Lord bless you and keep you.
May He make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you.

Speaker 5 May He turn His face towards you and give you peace and good thoughts. Shalom, Shalom.

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