"Philly Justice"

Speaker 1 Welcome everyone to a very special episode of Good Hang. This is kind of an episode for our listeners, for fans of Parks and Rec, for fans of Good Hang.

Speaker 1 We have been kind of teasing this thing called Philly Justice, which is a fake idea of a TV show that was created on the set of Parks and Rec that we made a one and a half minute trailer for.

Speaker 1 And we've been talking about the existence of it for a while and we've been listening to you.

Speaker 1 Your comments have been saying things like, Amy, you cannot be gatekeeping comedy at this, at a time like this.

Speaker 1 Or, the entire world is in shambles, Amy, please give us Philly justice so we have a reason to live. Or, in the name of Lil Sebastian, please.

Speaker 1 So, people are asking to see this dumb thing that we did. And we thought, why not premiere it only on Good Hangs? The only place you can see it/slash/hear it is on this podcast.

Speaker 1 And who better to talk about the creation of this particular little inside joke that was on Parks and Rec than the creator of Parks and Recreation, the wonderful, amazing Mike Scher?

Speaker 1 Mike Scher is a producer of all the shows that you love. Mike helped work on the American version of The Office.
He went on to create Parks and Recreation, Brooklyn 9-9,

Speaker 1 The Good Place. He's in his second season of A Man on the Inside at Netflix.
He is just an incredible writer, friend, person in the world. And I love him dearly and owe a lot to him.

Speaker 1 Nothing pleases Mike more than this kind of dumb joke and idea. So, Mike is my guest today.
We're going to talk about Philly Justice, the creation of it, and we're going to all watch it together.

Speaker 1 We're also going to talk about other things. We're going to talk about the beginning of Parks and Recreation.
We're going to talk about meeting at SNL.

Speaker 1 We're going to talk about systems and how important they are to both of us, that work is a place of joy. We're going to talk about all the crazy names he likes to come up with for his characters.

Speaker 1 And we're going to be visited by some very special actors, Rashida Jones, Adam Scott. We're going to hear from a bunch of people

Speaker 1 who are in Parks and Recreation and in Philly Justice who are telling us about how we made it, including the great Morgan Sackett, who is a producer on a lot of the shows Mike and I work on.

Speaker 1 He's an incredible producer and he's going to let us, he's going to remind us how we got away with making this dumb trailer. So there's a lot of things going on.

Speaker 1 But basically, interview with Mike Scher.

Speaker 1 We're going to talk to the cast of Philly Justice. We're going to watch this minute and a half trailer for the...
hopefully the first and only time here on Good Hang.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 this one's for the fans. This one is for the fans.
We heard you loud and clear. We're giving it to you.
We don't like to tease around here.

Speaker 1 We like to please.

Speaker 1 And we like to squeeze. And we like to do it with ease.
Is this sounding any less gross? Okay. All right.
Let's get started. Welcome to Good Hang.

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Speaker 1 I'm sure I realize I'm with

Speaker 1 probably the most accomplished podcaster I've interviewed yet is you.

Speaker 2 That just means you haven't interviewed me.

Speaker 1 No, I have not talked to a lot of podcasters.

Speaker 1 Because I realize on the way over here, I'm like, you've had a podcast, the podcast, correct, for many years.

Speaker 2 Yeah, for like an absurd number of years.

Speaker 1 I mean, you were ahead of the game.

Speaker 2 I don't know if it, if the first seven years even count because it was, we like were barely recording it. We were just screaming into our computers.
We didn't have microphones.

Speaker 1 Who's the we that you speak of?

Speaker 2 Joe Poznanski and myself, sports writer, award-winning sports writer, Joe Poznanski and me. And we started it a million years ago, but we haven't really,

Speaker 2 it hasn't been like anything approaching an actual extant

Speaker 2 like enterprise for more than like five years, I would say.

Speaker 1 The word extant really lets us know that we're with Mike Scherr, Harvard educated writer and creator.

Speaker 2 Pish Posh.

Speaker 1 I'm so thrilled to have you here. And we're going to talk about something very exciting today.
But I do have you in this studio.

Speaker 1 So I do want to talk about us a little bit and our work together before. I love us.
I do love us.

Speaker 2 Oh, this is us.

Speaker 1 One of another great show from NBC.

Speaker 1 But before I do that, when I plug this thing into my laptop, it goes weird.

Speaker 1 So, well, like, so, you know, I don't know if you know, Bill Simmons told me in the very beginning, we love Bill. Sure.
Boston, one of Boston's greatest.

Speaker 2 One of Boston's most.

Speaker 1 One of Boston's most.

Speaker 2 One of the most Boston people there is. That's very true.

Speaker 1 I mean, and

Speaker 1 I think of you as a Boston person. You're not.

Speaker 2 You're a Connecticut person. Yeah, but I identify full Boston.
You do identify. I'm literally wearing a Celtic sweatshirt right now because the Celtics are playing a playoff game right now.

Speaker 2 I can't watch it because I'm here with you. And so I wore this as like a shield to protect myself against evil and the city of Boston for that matter.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you, and you're a huge Red Sox fan. Yes.
And I do want to talk about sports because this is a podcast. Yeah.
But

Speaker 2 before I do, so Bill told me not to on Bill Simmons' network.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And you really,

Speaker 2 I assume it's a law.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you have to. You do.
You have to do 10% of sports, sports talk, or you get.

Speaker 2 If you don't mention Jim Rice once, you're canceled.

Speaker 1 But bill said maybe not don't use the laptop and i kind of have fought to keep it and what's happening now is it's going cuckoo when i plug this thing in

Speaker 1 for like notes just for like references he was like why do you need the laptop and i was like hey you know what's it to you you know and he was like i'm just giving you a suggestion by the way this is a very boston exchange just someone offering advice and the person coming back at them hard with like what like let's fight i gotta get bill on the podcast because because you're right.

Speaker 1 It is like,

Speaker 2 you once described to me. Do you remember this? You once described to me that at the, that the, you said to me that this city motto of Boston should be must be nice.

Speaker 1 Remember this? Must be nice. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And you described a situation in which when we were at SNL, you would go home and see your friends or people that you grew up with and you would go out for drinks.

Speaker 2 And if you paid, the attitude would be like, oh, it must be nice. Got a big Hollywood show, whatever.
And if you didn't pay, it was like, oh, must be nice.

Speaker 2 Make all that money in Hollywood and still get your friends to pick up your drinks. Like, you can't win.
You can't win. You can't win.

Speaker 1 You know what they say about Boston?

Speaker 1 You don't even have to put a net over the traps when you catch the lobsters. Because with Boston lobsters, if one tries to crawl out, the other one will just pull them back down.

Speaker 2 I've been pulling back down.

Speaker 1 But I love my city.

Speaker 2 I do love my city. Can I tell you one quick thing that is going to be of vital importance for this podcast? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I found out a piece of shocking information today.

Speaker 1 Oh, exciting. Is this breaking news?

Speaker 2 Breaking news. Okay.
Your dad

Speaker 2 and my mom

Speaker 2 go to the same barber.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 2 Yes. My mom lives in bed for mess, went to her barber today, got her hair cut.
Barber said, you know who comes in here? Oh boy. Do you know Amy Poehler?

Speaker 2 Amy Poehler's dad comes in here. And I guess your dad recently switched barbers for reasons I don't want to get into that are very, very private.

Speaker 1 You can tell me off the air.

Speaker 2 I'll tell you off the air. But my mom said, you're not going to believe this to her barber.
My son and Amy Poehler are friends and used to work together.

Speaker 2 And you can imagine the fireworks that happened in that barbershop.

Speaker 1 That is so cute. Isn't that adorable? That's really, that's a really nice thing.
I'm very happy.

Speaker 2 I was literally breaking news as of like 2 p.m. Pacific time today.

Speaker 1 Yeah, my father, Bill Poehler, he'll want me to say his first and last name. And you should say your mother's first and last name.
And Herbert. Yep.

Speaker 1 So Ann and Bill and Ann, thank you for keeping your hair tidy, number one.

Speaker 2 Yeah, first of all.

Speaker 1 And two,

Speaker 1 for raising us. Yeah.
We appreciate that. But my dad likes to start most conversations in the Boston area with going up to random people and saying, do you like TV and movies?

Speaker 1 And they go, yeah. And he goes, oh, well, my daughter is Amy Pohler.

Speaker 2 What a coincidence. Yeah.

Speaker 2 My daughter.

Speaker 1 And they go, oh, because they're like,

Speaker 2 okay. What percentage of people say no to that question? No.

Speaker 1 My dad used to rent apartments as like a side hustle. You know, he was like, he was in real estate renting because he was a public school teacher.

Speaker 1 Both of my parents were, and they would have summer jobs. And

Speaker 1 he used to ask me for a stack of headshots so he could hand them out when he was renting apartments. And after, many years of therapy, I realized that was a boundary that maybe I should set.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 2 so you gave them to him.

Speaker 1 I did at first, yeah, because it's Boston, you know, like must be nice. Like, oh, you don't think you think you're so great, you can't.

Speaker 2 Oh, you get you, you want to have people in Boston looking at your headshot?

Speaker 1 Your father's proud of you.

Speaker 2 Oh, boo-hoo.

Speaker 1 Um, Mike Scher is here, and um,

Speaker 2 all this will be cut, right? How old is it? Yeah, yeah, great.

Speaker 1 I mean, literally, the, I mean, all it will be is just very slow typing on this laptop. That's all this, that's all this.

Speaker 2 Well, I just sip water and wait for you to find whatever you're looking for.

Speaker 1 Oh, can I ask you though,

Speaker 1 because you like organizing, you like systems. I do.

Speaker 1 You love a good system.

Speaker 2 Love rules, love systems.

Speaker 1 And I would say overall,

Speaker 1 being in your simulation, and I know I can speak for many people, is kind of the best feeling in the world. You have great systems.
Thank you. You take pride in them.

Speaker 1 People that are in your systems are very well taken care of, very well considered. And And in my case, like it changed my life to be in your system.
And I love a good system too.

Speaker 1 And what I love about your systems is you think long and hard about what would be the best way or approach to do things. Like you're not, you're not a,

Speaker 1 you are not a strict

Speaker 1 person who doesn't take feedback about your system,

Speaker 1 but you like your systems.

Speaker 2 Love them. And I believe that people do their best work when there's like a strong system that also allows for freedom within the system.

Speaker 2 That is why I love working with you and people like Andy Samberg, people who are like from the SNL world specifically, because they're roll with the punches people. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But and all you have to do is like set up the boundaries. You put out the gate and you put lay out the fence and you're like, anywhere in here is fine.

Speaker 2 And then, and this is actually very appropriate for what we're going to be talking about today.

Speaker 2 Once you've, I believe, set up a sort of like boundary and like a mechanism and like you're going to be in the yard from two to four. You carry your toys.

Speaker 2 You can do anything you want from two to four. And then you're back inside.
That, and then you get the funniest people you can who are the most comfortable and happy.

Speaker 2 And you say like, don't worry, everything's taken care of. Rules are in place.
Fence is in place. Go crazy.
And you let people like do their best, most fun, most joyous work.

Speaker 2 I really believe, and this isn't like revelatory, but I really believe that is the best way to work creatively in a group.

Speaker 2 And the reason this is relevant, and I don't want to jump the gun here, but the thing we're going to be talking about today very much came out of a world where because we had this really great system in place and then went out and just found the funniest people we could find to come make this thing with us, crazy things happen.

Speaker 2 Like wonderful things happen that are just the result of just creative juices flowing and people feeling happy and free.

Speaker 2 Someone said to me once, and I believe this is true, that in creative enterprises, everyone is either in survival mode or creative mode.

Speaker 2 And if you're in survival mode, like you're worried about your job, you don't feel safe in your place of work, there's a threat somewhere, you feel like you're not being listened to, whatever, no one can be creative.

Speaker 2 And your job as like a manager of any kind at any level is to like flip that switch and get people back into creative mode where they feel like comfortable and warm and happy and safe.

Speaker 2 And that's when people do good work. And I think the maybe the defining

Speaker 2 principle of Parks and Rec was that everyone was in creative mode all the time.

Speaker 2 Like we were in survival mode with outside forces like are we going to get canceled like is this it are we done but that that's over there like that we can control that within the fence that we put out for the show we worked at all times to make sure everybody was in creative mode and that's why crazy things like this happened god so well said thank you for setting that up um

Speaker 1 I often and always speak about you and our experience on Parks and Rec as the perfect example of what it's like to be creative and not chaotic.

Speaker 1 And I I think you and I both have worked in all kinds of different areas where chaos was kind of part of the deal.

Speaker 1 And, you know, there is certainly an energy that comes from that, but one does not have to have a chaotic or dysfunctional experience to have a creative experience.

Speaker 2 That is correct. And for a very long time

Speaker 2 in Hollywood, I think, especially.

Speaker 2 But it's not, this is not located only in Hollywood. This is everywhere.

Speaker 2 I think there's a belief sometimes that like if something good results from a chaotic atmosphere, then there's like a weird response where it's like, well, this is the only way that something good can happen.

Speaker 2 Like, we got this good thing and the process was chaos. So we better not try to fix the chaos when like a rational person would think.

Speaker 2 Let's fix the chaos and then there will be more opportunities for more creative things that will also cause less pain and suffering.

Speaker 2 That's what I just can't stand about though, about Hollywood specifically. I think it's weirdly gotten better.
I don't know if this has been your experience.

Speaker 1 I think so. I think it's just like there's a little bit more

Speaker 1 diverse gatekeepers and a little bit more,

Speaker 1 you know, push from frankly generations behind us

Speaker 1 who have just like reminded us that we don't need to put up with behavior that we were used to putting up with.

Speaker 1 And just a little bit more quality of life stuff where people are just a little bit less

Speaker 1 okay with having their lives ruined at work.

Speaker 2 I mean, like when you and I were coming up, it was like, whatever the system was, you were just like, okay. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 You just like grit your teeth and you like put your head down and you try to survive. Yeah.
And the generation behind us, and especially the one behind that generation,

Speaker 2 looks at chaos and goes like, oh, then no, thank you. Like, then no.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't, I, I don't want to, they just, they have a, they don't have the, I think the sort of like, like a structural fear that we had.

Speaker 2 It was just like, if this is what's going on, then I will just suffer and tolerate it.

Speaker 2 And I think younger folks are just like, oh, then I won't be a part of it.

Speaker 1 Well, my bad stand-up about it is boomers are all about money. Gen X is like, is it all about money? Millennials are like, where is the money? And Gen Z is like, what is money?

Speaker 1 That's my bad standup about it.

Speaker 2 Not bad. It's good.

Speaker 1 Thanks. I have been doing that on stage.
Okay. So.
We could talk forever. I mean, we could do two, three, four podcasts.
Maybe someday we will.

Speaker 1 And I'd love to have you back as a guest to talk, to dig in even deeper with like Park Super fans and all the other projects that you do. But those to me are like other wives that you have.

Speaker 1 And I'd rather not discuss them right together. I am very

Speaker 1 congratulations on the success of Hacks and the success of Good Plays. Congratulations on second season of A Man Inside.
But right now, you are with your family, and I need you.

Speaker 2 And this is Thanksgiving, and we are going to put on nice sweaters. And god damn it, we are going to sit down and have a nice meal.
That's right. And at 6 p.m.

Speaker 2 your new girlfriend will come and pick you all up and drive you away from me.

Speaker 1 I'm fine with her, and I'm very happy for you. But so we're going to talk about parks, but to do that, let's talk about.
So, you went to Harvard,

Speaker 1 which, by the way, a great, great month for Harvard. You know, I've talked some shit about Harvard on here already, but I'm a big flip-flopper.
Now I love Harvard.

Speaker 2 I'm going to say, first

Speaker 2 truly good month for Harvard

Speaker 2 since its founding in 1636.

Speaker 2 I was like, how far back do you have to go? Oh, maybe all the way.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Good job, Harvard. Listen, we took it on the chin.
We have our share of Jared Kushner's and Ted Cruz's. And also, I'm everyone in the Supreme Court and all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2 And it's been, and Zuckerberg, don't you can't forget about Zuck.

Speaker 1 I never do.

Speaker 2 But Facebook. Finally, Harvard is like, hey, we have all the money.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And so we'll say no to the bully. And people were like, oh my God, you can do that.

Speaker 1 It's exciting. But you came from Harvard and we met.
Do you remember when we first met?

Speaker 2 No. I remember when I saw you for the first time, which was at a UCB

Speaker 2 sketch thing that happened at Fez. Oh, yeah.
I've told a story before. I don't know if you want to, I don't know how in-depth you want to go here.

Speaker 1 I'd love to go in depth because we don't get,

Speaker 1 we're going to talk Philly justice, but we have some time.

Speaker 2 Great. So

Speaker 2 I moved to New York, Radford, graduated in 97 and 98. I was working for Jon Stewart.
Oh, no, late 97. I was working for Jon Stewart.
He was writing a book and I was pitching my ideas for the book.

Speaker 2 And he used none of them and gave me $3,000. And it was amazing.
It was my first professional job.

Speaker 2 Thank you, Jon Stewart. So we are.

Speaker 1 He gave you that money to go away.

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 2 He looked at my ideas and was like, oh, no. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He was like, you're making me nervous. Please go away.

Speaker 2 He was like, does three grand get you out of my office?

Speaker 2 So I went to, I heard about all these comedy shows that happened and I was very excited to see comedy, went to Fez

Speaker 2 to see John do stand-up.

Speaker 2 And so you came out on stage. I did not know who you were and you said, hey, everyone, I know you're excited to hear the stand-up, John, Stewart, and all these other comedians.

Speaker 2 My name is Carol Johnson. I'm from HBO and I'm casting a pilot.

Speaker 2 And so before, if you don't mind with your indulgence, I'd love to just do some. And I was like, oh, there's a nice woman from HBO here who is casting a pilot.
This is so interesting.

Speaker 2 This is how show business works. I 100% bought it, Hookline, and Sinker.
I did not understand that I was at a comedy show and that this was probably a piece of comedy.

Speaker 2 And then you announced that you were doing this pilot and you asked if anyone, you said that someone needed, I don't remember exactly, but it was something like someone needed to be able to do a

Speaker 2 Bill Cosby impression. This shows you how long ago this is.
Yeah, sure. And Matt Besser, another person I did not know, was like volunteered.

Speaker 2 And you're like, oh, yes, sir, please come right on up here. And then he proceeded to do like the worst Bill Cosby impression of all time.

Speaker 2 And you, in the role of straight person, were just like, ah, boy, I'm not sure if that really fits the bill. And he kept doing it and kept doing it.
And then I think Matt Walsh was like, I can do one.

Speaker 2 And he got up and did it. And you were, it was even worse.
And you were like, yeah, this isn't really what we're looking for. And I remembered this so clearly.

Speaker 2 I was like, this poor woman from HBO is just trying to cast her pilot.

Speaker 2 And these guys are terrible. These guys are.

Speaker 2 And when I was having that thought, I was like, this is a sketch, I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 2 And, but there's a reason I tell this story, which is your performance was so real and grounded, I legitimately was blown away.

Speaker 2 I was like, I was brought three minutes into this incredibly stupid premise before it occurred to me that you were not really Carol Johnson from HBO. No.

Speaker 2 And I, and then I remember going, I remember talking to someone after the show and being like, who was that? And they were like,

Speaker 2 this group called UCB. And I was like, that woman was incredible.
And they were like, the straight woman? And I was like, yes, she was incredible.

Speaker 1 How does she have time to be in a sketch group when she works at HBO?

Speaker 2 She's a multi-talented person. But I remember then repeating that, like this, they were so funny and everything.
And then someone was like, that's Amy Poehler.

Speaker 2 Like everyone in New York already knew you.

Speaker 2 And I was just like, that, that i you just like you just like burrowed into my brain and then when you joined the show i i started working as an all a few months later yep that year was what year did you start i started january 98 yes 98.

Speaker 2 yeah so you came what 2001 2001 so september 2001 yeah and um i i don't remember where we interacted between those dates but i remember that when you auditioned you came to my office and we smoked cigarettes in my office because i was running update oh remember cigarettes let's just take a minute i mean I know they're bad for you.

Speaker 2 They're so bad for you.

Speaker 1 And, like, you know, they truly are bad for you. They shorten your life.
They make your skin terrible, but they're, remember them?

Speaker 2 They're really, really terrible.

Speaker 1 They're terrible, so terrible. And I looked so cool doing that terrible thing.

Speaker 1 And we would smoke cigarettes and we would, we, you know, at 30 Rock, you could just kind of open your window and look at the Empire State Building.

Speaker 2 Yeah. SNL was like grandfathered into all rules everywhere.
And you could just like, no one except us was on the 17th floor. And you just open your window and smoked out the window.

Speaker 2 And it was terrible.

Speaker 1 And it was terrible. And then you were eventually, when did you start running update? We can update.

Speaker 2 Your first show was my first update show.

Speaker 1 That's right. So, gosh, I forget that.
That was your first.

Speaker 2 I took it for, so Robert Carlock was running it and he left. And I remember talking to Mike Shoemaker.
beloved producer at the time, now runs Seth Meyers' show.

Speaker 2 And I was like, boy, I'm not sure I can do this job. Like, I don't really know what I'm doing.
And he was like, it's super easy. Like, you just choose the best jokes and whatever.

Speaker 2 And I was like, okay, like, it sounds fun. And then 9-11 happened.
And so my first show running the like funny fake news was 9-11. And it was your first show on the show.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 1 And so, right. So I was this new cast member and you were running weekend update at a time when comedy was declared over.
Yes. And when we'll never laugh again.
That's right.

Speaker 2 And the first thing that happened on the show for your first show and my first show running update was like Rudy Giuliani, pre-insanity, Rudy Giuliani, and like cops and firefighters and MTA workers standing at home base and talking about like resilience and the power of humanity.

Speaker 2 And then Paul Simon singing the boxer. Yeah.
And then it was like, okay, and you're Britney Spears. Go.
Remember? That was your sketch. You had a new snake wrangler.
It didn't make it. It got cut.

Speaker 2 Oh, did it really?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's good that it did.

Speaker 1 And by the way, I was not Britney Spears. You were the snake wrangler.
I was the very sapphic snake wrangler.

Speaker 2 Who was Britney Spears? Was it Reese Witherspoon?

Speaker 1 She was the host. Yeah.
That makes sense. Yeah, yeah.
So then Mike says to us, I'm going to go work on a show. I'm really excited.
I'm going to leave SNL. I'm going to move.

Speaker 1 And, you know, everyone always wants to kind of like launch away from SNL, hopefully with some kind of project or something.

Speaker 1 And you told us the idea and we were like, well, this is a bad idea.

Speaker 2 Bad idea. Yeah.
It was the American adaptation of the British Office.

Speaker 1 And we had watched, we had all watched the British Office together, including the very special Christmas episodes that we watched in your office.

Speaker 2 Seth got early from his friend in England and we watched them in my office and it we all like laughed and cried. And when Dawn came back and kissed Tim.
Spoiler alert.

Speaker 2 Yeah, for spoiler for a 20-year-old British show, we all like jumped up in the air and like we were celebrating like we won the Super Bowl. Yeah.
And then

Speaker 2 a couple months later I was like I'm gonna go turn that into well help turn that into an American show yeah and we and I remember us thinking like oh no

Speaker 1 this is never gonna work yeah we were really like oh this is this is terrible yeah perfect show how can you redo it and then of course we heard a couple things we heard Steve Corell who was a second city guy that we knew in Chicago we were like that's a good idea that's a that's a good pick and we were like we knew that you were working on it and others who are genius writers and um so and and greg daniels we thought well look you got a good team you're gonna go down in flames but it's gonna be fun it'll be like a cult classic thing or whatever yeah i mean i signed on for two reasons number one it was only job offer i got

Speaker 2 but more importantly because i met with greg and

Speaker 2 My wife, JJ Philbin, had worked on Coupling, which was another British show that had been adapted and had not worked out. And Greg was like so scientific about it.

Speaker 2 He was like, what do you think went wrong? And what did they do? And what did they not do? And we ended up talking in his office for like three hours. And I was like, this isn't going to work.

Speaker 2 It's a bad idea. Everybody thinks it's a bad idea.
But this guy is so smart and has thought about this so carefully that this will at least be an incredible.

Speaker 2 like he's going to teach me things about writing. And so I was not expecting it to work.
I don't think anyone was except maybe Greg.

Speaker 2 But it was like, this is going to be an education for me and going from sketchwriting to real or a half-hour writing you know and then on that show you are on for how many years four the first four first four plus and then decide with Greg to create a new show

Speaker 1 and it might be fun to talk about just the like the all the kind of I think it's always a good reminder I think you and I are very much like this like I think it's kind of important to show your work like I think people think that ideas are these like fully formed things that are just realized instantly.

Speaker 1 And in my opinion, people that are less secure tend to pretend that they are.

Speaker 1 But secure people, I think, tend to kind of talk about all the ways that they approach something and how they had to re-approach, I guess.

Speaker 1 But in the very, very beginning, the idea for the spin-off of the office, or was it even an idea for spin-off, was what?

Speaker 2 Well, so Ben Silverman.

Speaker 2 Ben Silverman was running NBC and he asked Greg to like do a spin-off. And so Greg's response, typically thoughtful and considered, was, I would love to do another show.

Speaker 2 If the best idea that I have for a show is a spin-off, then I will do a spin-off. If the best idea I have is something else, I'll do something else.

Speaker 2 Greg is a real, one of the, the main things that he gave me in terms of like how to do this job is best idea wins.

Speaker 2 Doesn't matter who it comes from, if it's staff writer or a 25-year veteran co-EP or a person who works in costumes or whatever, best idea wins. That's it.
And there is no corollary to that.

Speaker 2 In every situation that you're in creatively, best idea wins. And so that's what he said basically to Ben.

Speaker 2 And he was like, it's very important to me that you understand that if the best idea I have is not a spin-off of the office,

Speaker 2 then we're going to do something else. And Ben was like, totally hear you, buddy.
And the next day in the variety, he was like, office spin-off is coming.

Speaker 2 Ben just totally ignored him and just announced an office spin-off.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 Greg and I started started meeting. Greg asked me to do it with him.
So we started meeting. We would go to Norm's diner in the valley like twice a week for breakfast.

Speaker 2 And we would just think of ideas and we would talk about what interested us and what was going on. And we would inch down a little path and then hit a dead end and then inch back.
And we would,

Speaker 2 we just met constantly over showing your work. We met all the time forever.
And eventually

Speaker 2 came up with the idea of like, you know, and by the way, just to say it, some of the ideas we talked about were office spin-offs.

Speaker 2 They were like Craig Robinson and Rain Wilson and all these people on the show who could clearly be in their own show. So we talked about family shows with them or whatever.

Speaker 2 Greg was, I think, wary of taking assets away from a show that was very successful in part because of its large, rich cast.

Speaker 2 We stumbled upon this idea of like, okay, Dunder Mifflin on the office is a fake company and it's a way to satirize the private sector.

Speaker 2 What if we create a whole fake town and satirize the public sector? And as we're having that idea, the world economy goes kablooy

Speaker 2 and they're talking about like massive government bailouts. And we start to realize that like the government,

Speaker 2 obviously federal, really, but also state and local was like going to be very present in people's lives. Like people were going to be like looking to the government for help.

Speaker 2 So we started getting excited about that. I had this idea for an abandoned lot that would be turned into a park over the course of the entire run of the show.
Very wire-y idea.

Speaker 2 I was obsessed with the wire, as were you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we share that data that we

Speaker 2 and I thought like the

Speaker 2 way that the wire portrayed like calcified systems and how slow gears grind and stuff was fascinating to me.

Speaker 2 And I thought it would be really funny where in the pie if it if you did a show that ideally lasts for a long time and in the pilot, it's like, we're going to do this.

Speaker 2 And then it literally doesn't get done until the very end of like nine years later.

Speaker 2 So that was the idea that I really liked. Greg then was like, what if it's not a lot? What if there's like a giant hole in the ground? What if it's a pit? And I was like, that's so much better.

Speaker 2 And so that idea of all the 73 ideas we had started to like fizzy, fizzy up. And it obviously is not a spin-off of the office.
And Greg, true to his word, was like, this is what we want to do.

Speaker 2 At some point, we called you because we heard you were leaving. And you were like, I'm theoretically interested in this.
Let me know.

Speaker 2 The show was given a guaranteed 13-episode order, which now is very commonplace. At the time, was like

Speaker 2 insane.

Speaker 2 And the office was going to be on after the Super Bowl that year. And this show was going to launch after The Office.

Speaker 2 Then you called us back and said, actually, sorry, Prego. That's exactly what you said.
Yeah, I said Prego. You said Prego.

Speaker 1 Prego. I sent you a telegraph.

Speaker 1 I said, Prego, stop.

Speaker 1 Show's off. Stop.

Speaker 2 And it was like, well, you're going to give birth like the week we have to shoot this. So no go and then like i remember very clearly two weeks later i went into greg's office and i was like you know

Speaker 2 there's no like we had we were working on the show at that point pretty strenuously and i was just like i just don't think there's anyone but polar who can do this and he was like i had the same thought last night and very quickly we made a phone call to nbc and said if we can get amy for this we will give up seven of the 13 guaranteed episodes because we'd only be able to make six dang and give up the super bowl slot well you guys were and i'm so appreciative you did that.

Speaker 2 I mean, the thing was, it was actually a very simple decision because we were like, you know,

Speaker 2 getting Amy Poehler on your show is a long-term decision. Like that's a decision you make for like this, what you hope will be a very long chunk of time.

Speaker 2 Like the Super Bowl slot is a short-term decision. It's like, yeah, you'll get this like frisson of energy, but like it doesn't last.

Speaker 2 Like no one ever, like very rarely does that determine the fate of a TV show.

Speaker 2 And so we then called you back and said, what if you could start shooting three months after you give birth? And then we made the show.

Speaker 1 And it proved to be the most satisfying creative experience I've ever had. And I like.

Speaker 2 More than this podcast.

Speaker 1 No, this is my number one.

Speaker 2 Number two. It's number two.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, besides this.

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Speaker 1 Now, one of the ways, like very concrete ways that is, I feel like an example of what I'm talking about, which is like the joy in the details, is the way you like to name characters. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I think you gave me, I think you allowed me to use this in my book, actually, but you gave me like a a list of possible names instead of Leslie Knope, the character I played on Parks Rec.

Speaker 1 Like you gave me like a bunch of different alternative names, but you also love to name characters left and right. What is it? What is fun about names for you and naming?

Speaker 2 Okay, so it's two things. The first is growing up, first major comedic influence, Monty Python.
Monty Python, experts at silly, stupid names, like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them.

Speaker 2 You can go look them up in their sketches. But the actual,

Speaker 2 the actual thing that's going on here is different. So I would go to actors IMDB pages to see what they had been in when we were casting them in the early days of the show.

Speaker 2 And you would see like woman number two or like man in crowd or guy with sandwich. And it really bummed me out because I love actors.
I love them so much. I think that their job,

Speaker 2 people will scoff when I say this. I think they have the hardest job of any job job when it comes to like making a show.
It is so hard.

Speaker 2 Anyone who doesn't believe this should try it, by the way, try acting.

Speaker 1 Our buddy Ted Danson gave me the best line, which is acting is embarrassing.

Speaker 2 It's embarrassing. It's hard.
You have to summon something, comedic timing or dramatic performance or tears or anger or whatever,

Speaker 2 like instantly. with cameras on you and lights on you wearing makeup and clothes that aren't yours and a hundred people staring at you and a big dude holding a microphone four inches from your face.

Speaker 2 And when it's, when people can do it well, I think it's like a, um, it's like a miracle worthy of beatification in, at the Vatican.

Speaker 2 And so I would see these people on IMDb and it would be like, man in crowd, and it would be like, that person like.

Speaker 2 auditioned for this and booked this gig and drove all the way across town and like put on fake clothes and put on makeup and whatever and had to stand in a certain place, follow a million instructions, say a line or two, and then they yelled cut.

Speaker 2 And then that person drove all the way home and they got paid like $600 for like a week's worth of work. And they should be, there should be something better than man number two or man and crowd.

Speaker 2 And so I decided at that moment, this is early in season one, I think, of Perhaps Rec, that every character who appeared on the show was going to have a first and last name.

Speaker 2 So when you saw, instead of, if it says man in crowd, you're like, oh, well, that doesn't really count as an acting gig.

Speaker 2 But if if you see Marv Vivavma, which is a name I gave a character once, you're like, who the hell is Marv Vivavma? What was Marvavna up to?

Speaker 2 So I, and it has been, that was, it started with that intention and has become one of the great, truly one of the great joys of my life is to give every, because here's the other thing.

Speaker 2 Sorry, you can cut all this out. But the other thing is, if you name a character

Speaker 2 Jack Smith,

Speaker 2 you can get away with it because there are 10 trillion Jack Jack Smiths.

Speaker 2 But if you name a character anything even mildly interesting, like Winona Cooper, there's going to be like four Winona Coopers in the state that you're setting the show in.

Speaker 2 And then the legal comes back and says, you can't name your character that.

Speaker 1 A lot of people don't know that. You have to get names cleared.

Speaker 2 Be cleared. And there have to be either none or so many that not any one of them could be.

Speaker 2 could think that you're saying anything about them. So I go for none.
None. Yeah.
I go for the weirdest names.

Speaker 2 We had a character recently on the show on A Man on the Inside named Ophelio Papippape.

Speaker 2 There's no Ophelia Papippapeppies anywhere in the continental United States. So you get to use that name.

Speaker 2 That has been my goal is to have none, have the Google search come up empty with every name of every character.

Speaker 1 Okay, with that in mind, will you please read some of these names that you have invented? Yeah. Like just a few here on the bottom of this page.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Mona Lisa Saperstein. Yes.
Jenny Slate's character. Yes.

Speaker 2 Do you remember all these? Yeah. Amazing.
Trad Frankenstipe.

Speaker 1 Okay, tell us about Trad.

Speaker 2 So Trad Frankenstipe was a local reporter or he had

Speaker 2 almost like a little show like this in Pawnee where he would interview political people like Leslie Knob.

Speaker 2 A great way to come up with a name that doesn't exist is to take a normal name like Todd and then just stick another letter in there somewhere. Trodd.

Speaker 2 And then Frankenstipe is just Frankenstein with a P at the end.

Speaker 2 Tyrion Fonzarelli. Tyrion Fonzarelli, obviously a combination of two characters from TV history, Tyrion Lannister and Arthur Fonzarelli.
This name goes to Matt Murray. Matt Murray did this.

Speaker 2 Ah, Panther. Yeah, Panther.

Speaker 2 Tyrion Fonzarelli was a-writer on March and Rec, among other things. Was a guy in a jewelry store who was buying

Speaker 2 an engagement ring for his

Speaker 2 to be betrothed when Anne and Chris Traeger were shopping for rings. Great.
Leslie Nope.

Speaker 2 Gretzky Susan Pellegrino. Okay.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 Gretzky Susan Pellegrino was like the fourth in a series of names that for some reason all involve the last name of the greatest hockey player who ever lived, Wayne Gretzky.

Speaker 2 I don't offhand remember who Gretzky Susan Pellegrino is. Also, it should be noted, hyphens, huge part of my naming process.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm so excited.

Speaker 2 Just to wait to get another name in there.

Speaker 1 Another name. And also, there's no way that someone's going to have this name.

Speaker 2 No one's first name is Gretzky Susan. Gretzky hyphen Susan.
Typhoon Montelbon.

Speaker 1 Oh, I love Typhelbon.

Speaker 2 Typhoon was

Speaker 2 Donda's hairdresser. Yep.

Speaker 2 Typhoon, also Matt Murray. I believe named, gave Typhoon the first name, Typhoon.
We needed a last name. Where do you go for the last name? Ricardo Montelbon.
Typhoon Montelbon. Sassandra Sasasnorp.

Speaker 2 Okay. Sassandra Sasasnorp was, I believe I could have this wrong, was just Sandra, it was like Sandra Snorp.
Okay. And then the legal legal was like, doesn't, didn't clear.
We found a Sandra Sassorn.

Speaker 2 We found a Sandra Snorp. So guess what you do? You had five more S's.
Now you're good. Sandra.
Sandra Sassas Snorp. Summer Oly Kraken Frog Frog.
Okay.

Speaker 2 This is a Monty Python rip-off. Straight up.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Ole, O-L-E with an accent. And

Speaker 2 I guess just that part.

Speaker 2 There's a Monty Python sketch called, I think, Election Night Special, where they're just going through election results and local elections all over the country. And

Speaker 2 there's a silly party and a sensible party. So all the people in the sensible party have names like John Smith and all the people in the silly party have very crazy names.

Speaker 2 And there's also a very silly party and a slightly silly party.

Speaker 2 If you want names, go watch that sketch.

Speaker 2 It'll sate you. Summer Ole Kraken Frog Frog.
That's a good one. Frog Frog is a great last one.

Speaker 1 And then this one, do you have, are you involved with this one with hacks?

Speaker 2 No, Cece Homo.

Speaker 1 I thought that wasn't sure. Cece Homo.

Speaker 2 And you know what?

Speaker 1 I don't want to talk about hacks. That's fine.

Speaker 2 They'll be here and says. Jenna made me do that.
CC Homo, H-O-M-E-A-U-X, was all Jen Statsky and Lucian Yellow and Paul Downs. I don't know which one of them came up with it.

Speaker 1 Yes, but said, but spelled differently than it said.

Speaker 2 It's a very funny moment in the show because she introduces herself as Cece Homo and Gene Smart goes, Spell that.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Oh, and you know, we're going to, let's, let's get into Philly Justice because we have some special guests that are going to be joining us to talk about Philly Justice.

Speaker 1 For those listening, stand by because we have very, very exciting guests.

Speaker 2 You probably should have mentioned this so long ago. Oh, yeah.
Can you do me a favor and go back and record that?

Speaker 1 Well, we do record. We often record the beginning after the interview so I can talk about what we talked about.

Speaker 2 Please don't make people sit through some early leg crack and frog frog before they get to the famous people.

Speaker 1 And a lot of people don't know, though, we record the interview after the person leaves. So, so yeah so this is just us talking recording

Speaker 2 um this is just to capture the ai modulation of my voice yes and then you make me say whatever you want of course i mean it's just so hard honestly it's a relief at this point ai is a relief i keep saying that it really is um

Speaker 1 um and um We we might also want to like do a little teaser or two to say that you and I are thinking when this comes out,

Speaker 1 we will have announced that we're working together again on something exciting. Very exciting.
So we're back together again. We are renewing our vows, if you will.

Speaker 2 I had my fun. That's right.
I ran around town. Yes.
And I realized that what I really needed was under my nose the whole time.

Speaker 1 Yoko knew that John needed a break.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 And she let him wander and he came back. So,

Speaker 1 you know, everyone needs a break sometimes, but you're back when we're back. And we're very, very excited to work together again.

Speaker 2 We'll have to, That's a whole separate podcast.

Speaker 1 I think it is. I think it is, but it's just a little teaser.
Okay,

Speaker 1 so we will do another episode on parks, we promise, for those listening. But in the meantime, we need to get to, I think, a more important TV show.

Speaker 2 By far.

Speaker 1 And that is called Philly Justice. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, to explain to people listening, what the heck is this? I don't know about a show called Philly Justice. Well, you shouldn't.
It's not real.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 1 I'll just set it up and then I need you to tell us the history. So

Speaker 1 very briefly, Philly Justice is a fake TV show that we made up, a few cast members made up on the set of Parks and Wreck one day because we looked at a picture of ourselves and we laughed and we said, oh, we look like we're in a TV show called Philly Justice.

Speaker 1 That small inside joke on set laugh grew into a beast that is still discussed today. So what do you remember about the beginnings of Philly Justice?

Speaker 2 So this is like season four of Parks and Wreck, I think. You're running for, Leslie Help's running for for office, and we have in this season incredible regular guest stars on the show.

Speaker 2 Catherine Hahn played a campaign manager, high-powered campaign manager from DC who was running the campaign of Bobby Newport, played by Paul Rudd. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And Bobby Newport was the moron son of a wealthy businessman who didn't want the job at all,

Speaker 2 but was running against Leslie. And it's Leslie's greatest dream.
And Bobby Newport does not care at all.

Speaker 2 And in fact, in the finale of the show, when he loses, there's a brief clip of him on TV being interviewed. And he says, honestly, this is a huge relief, which is one of my favorite.

Speaker 2 It's an incredible Paul Redd moment. So in this episode we were shooting.
You were all in like campaign mode, which meant you were maybe uncharacteristically wearing like a very smartly tailored suit.

Speaker 2 Yep. And Rashida was, Anne Perkins was also wearing something like that.
And then

Speaker 2 Jen Barkley, Catherine's character, is always high-powered suit lady. And Paul Redd is there and Adam Scott is there, who usually wore ties and suits and stuff.

Speaker 2 And so this is what I remember is that someone came running up and said, look at this picture. And it was all five of you.
And I think it was just a wardrobe picture. It was like, let's get a picture.

Speaker 2 They take pictures of characters all the time. Yeah.
Just to say like, okay, this is what they look like in case we have to recreate this. And then I think maybe Rashida had said.

Speaker 2 Someone had said, we look like we're in a David E. Kelly show, like a legal drama.
And I think Rashida maybe just said Philly Justice.

Speaker 1 And we'll put the picture up here, but it look, we're just kind of nailing it. You're just drama stuff.

Speaker 2 You're just in the mode of that, of that kind of show. That's right.

Speaker 2 So then what I heard, and this stuff was like bleeding up to me in the writer's room, is that you guys had started kind of just, you're like, this is the thing we're doing now is we're coming up with like characters and scenes and like moments of dialogue for our characters from this fake show that you had invented called Philly Justice, which was a David E.

Speaker 2 Kelly show from like 2005

Speaker 2 that had shot the pilot and that had never aired. And you were all goofing around and improvising, right? Like improvising just like who you were and what the show was about.

Speaker 2 So it just kept wafting up to the writer's room that like everyone was really enjoying this bit.

Speaker 2 Great. Fantastic.
Then I think we all collectively blacked out.

Speaker 2 And when we woke up, the writers had written scenes for Philly Justice.

Speaker 1 Like a 20-page script.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Like writers, it should be noted in comedy rooms, will take any excuse not to work.

Speaker 1 Of course, writing is the worst.

Speaker 2 It's the worst.

Speaker 2 And if there's like a fun, a more fun thing,

Speaker 2 great. Totally.

Speaker 2 And I do remember at one point divvying up scenes for Philly Justice the way that a good showrunner would be like, okay, why don't you guys take act one of the next episode and you take act two and whatever.

Speaker 2 And instead, I was like, okay, you guys write the scene where the, where Adam, Scott, and

Speaker 2 whoever are like fighting and you take the scene where Rashida is doing this. And we just started writing scenes, fake scenes for a fake show that didn't exist for you in character.

Speaker 1 While we were making another show. Correct.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 2 we have in season four of the show, we have built the city council chambers where Leslie was hoping to work someday. The city council chambers looked kind of like a courtroom if you squinted.
Yep.

Speaker 2 So it was like, okay. And then at some point, I remember Morgan Sackett,

Speaker 2 who we're going to talk to today, coming in and saying, like, I think we can shoot all of this stuff in the

Speaker 2 in the city council chamber and i don't remember when we decided to shoot it i like that again we blacked out yeah but suddenly we were just going to do this we were going to make we're going to use nbc resources

Speaker 2 while we're supposed to be making the show they paid for which never suffered never suffered and then we were going to take some of those resources and divert them without anyone knowing sure to a different part of the same set yeah and then shoot the the scenes from philly justice and and by the way this is very important for everyone to understand to no end there was not a point to this it wasn't like we're gonna put this on the dvd or we're going to this is like a backdoor pilot or if this works we could really do x y and it wasn't like viral it wasn't like we're going to make a viral thing or we're going to be talking about it 15 16 years later no it was because it was fun and and really the thing that i think is the most important thing to get across is that this that show was so fun fun to work on.

Speaker 2 Everyone was almost singularly devoted to the concept of having fun. Yeah.
And this just seemed fun. And we didn't question it.
We didn't ask why we were doing it.

Speaker 2 Morgan's job basically is to like make the show that we're making. He was as gung-ho about this as anyone.
He was like, yeah, of course we, of course we have to do this. Like we have to do this.

Speaker 2 And the next thing I know, well, then a bunch of stuff happens. And I don't want to go too far.

Speaker 1 Well, I think this might be a good time to jump onto our Zoom. Perfect time, time, actually, because we're going to be joined on our Zoom with some, the cast of Philly Justice, basically.

Speaker 1 And what we'll figure, what we'll discuss when we get everybody is there was a casting change.

Speaker 2 I forgot about that.

Speaker 1 Okay. And also what we'll talk about is this small joke became hours of emails,

Speaker 1 character descriptions, tons of scripts, an actual shoot day, a trailer that we're going to show at the end. And nobody has seen this particular trailer.
It's very exciting.

Speaker 1 Now we did put on the end of one of the blooper reels, like a small kind of like fake trailer of Philly Justice. We did, yes.
But we never showed the real deal.

Speaker 1 And not only are we going to show it to our

Speaker 1 on this podcast, but we're also a lot of the people here today have never seen it. And we're going to watch them watch it in real time.
Very exciting.

Speaker 1 And just like those video games, and we're going to play video games over them watching the video.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and then I'm going to Twitch. I'm going to do do a Twitch stream that has that in a small square while I play Castlevania.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and then me and Kai Snat are gonna go out and give out Nintendo.

Speaker 2 We're gonna Philly just and then that whole thing will be on a video on a phone that Mr. Beast is holding at the NBA Slam Dunk contest when he jumps out of the elbow.

Speaker 1 Okay, so let's see. Do we have anyone on yet? Oh my gosh, this is exciting.

Speaker 1 This episode is brought to you by Degree Cool Rush Deodorant. I'm a big fan of people owning their mistakes, like how last year Degree changed their Cool Rush formula and men were mad.

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Speaker 1 So joining us now,

Speaker 1 Rashida Jones, Morgan Sackett, and Adam Scott. Welcome, everybody.

Speaker 3 Thank you so much. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 Where is everyone zooming from?

Speaker 4 I'm upstairs at a barbecue, a family barbecue.

Speaker 1 Great. In LA.
Morgan?

Speaker 5 I'm at home in LA.

Speaker 1 Adam?

Speaker 3 I'm in New York, and I happen to be be in Aziz's apartment right now.

Speaker 1 And is Aziz there?

Speaker 3 No, no, he's, I locked him out. He's downstairs.

Speaker 2 He came to me. Banging on the door.

Speaker 3 That's right. He's furious.

Speaker 2 Wait, Sheeta, upstairs at a barbecue.

Speaker 4 Yeah, not mine.

Speaker 4 I'm in a person's home. I asked them where their office was.
This is where I am.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 3 That's always the best place at a barbecue is just upstairs by yourself away from

Speaker 4 like a stranger's office.

Speaker 2 it's great just going through their stuff

Speaker 2 these emmys up here are just telling you guys dang whose barbecue is this can can we guess whose barbecue it is it's also a ziz's barbecue

Speaker 3 and he's not allowed in

Speaker 2 he's also not there he's not in either place

Speaker 2 by the way guys where's aziz yeah don't know i haven't heard from him in if aziz walks through the background of morgan zoom right now it'll be the greatest moment in the history of podcasting

Speaker 1 I guess we wanted to just start.

Speaker 1 Morgan, if we could.

Speaker 1 We were talking about how this picture on set then became a private joke that then became a show that then was written by the writers while we were actually doing a real show.

Speaker 1 So what do you remember about the first time you heard about it? And could you talk to us about the email that you sent?

Speaker 2 And also, how were you this irresponsible that you allowed this to happen in your walk yeah really

Speaker 5 it just sort of floated around for a while everybody i don't know i thought colleen who was our photographer forever took it but i talked to her this week she didn't i don't know who snapped that photo but uh little did they know it was just with one of our phones it was on my phone

Speaker 1 and we got permitted to do it i don't remember who did it but okay so you you commissioned the photo yourself because you were enjoying how you all looked in your smartly tailored suits okay we were enjoying ourselves yes right the photo was commissioned like like actors do we were like look at how cool we look let's take another we were like we've been photographed all day but yet it's still not enough right not enough

Speaker 3 i don't feel satisfied somehow while people around us are doing work like setting up the next shot get carrying cameras and equipment stuff we're like look at us in front of this

Speaker 1 you know just like yeah we were like rashida somebody take a picture with rashida's camera how cool we look

Speaker 2 and Rashida, do I have it right? I thought I remembered that you were the one who first said the words, Philly Justice, as if it were a fake show. Do I have that right?

Speaker 6 Or do you remember?

Speaker 4 It's probably, I mean, I'm not going to take credit, but it's probably right because I'm, I mean, I spent two years on a David Kelly show and like a, you know, in David Kelly land.

Speaker 4 And I think I was like, this is a procedural.

Speaker 5 This is like a legal procedural.

Speaker 4 Maybe, I don't know. My memory's not great.
So I'll take credit.

Speaker 1 Well, if you pay attention, everybody is facing one way except for Adam. And that really did end up informing his character.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Everybody is. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So Adam is the rebel.

Speaker 3 Nick something, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, Nick. Yeah, we'll get to Nick.
So, Morgan, you are busy working on a show and you hear this stupid thing. And you're like, you just hear us talking about it.

Speaker 1 When did you realize that you wanted to be part of making it into a trailer?

Speaker 5 I don't know. I think it just kept coming up.
And it's like, and I feel like it was when we had that, the city council chambers, you know, that Leslie and we're like, that was a courtroom.

Speaker 5 And then we knew the Barclay group was coming up, which was Hans Character's like high-end DC lobbying firm. And it's like, that looks like a law office.
So I sent.

Speaker 5 We just talked about it forever and noodled around scripts and you guys had a very active chat going on about it and I sent out an email we I have that email can you read Morgan can you read us the email sure dear cast of Philly justice we're planning to shoot Wednesday September 19th the brief storyline is that there's an EPK for Philly justice pilot shot in the spring of 2002 we're talking to Dylan McDermott and it looks like we'll work it out to have him join us we also may get an interview with David E.

Speaker 5 Kelly, which we really thought we were going to get.

Speaker 5 We should decide what angle we want to take with him. He wrote it, he saw it, he hated it, he advised Dylan not to do it, et cetera.

Speaker 5 We're planning to convert the Barclay group set into the Offices of Billy Justice team. We're also going to set up a courtroom set.

Speaker 5 The plan is to shoot a couple of short scenes for the pilot and then interviews with the cast. Most of the piece will play out in the interview segments.

Speaker 5 The plan is to dress and groom everyone as 2002 lawyers. That needs from everybody as character names and backgrounds.
Any bits you want to try in a name for the law firm, please respond.

Speaker 5 And at the end, I said thanks, Morgan Sackett, assistant to the associate associate producer of Philly Joe.

Speaker 2 I, okay. Morgan, why?

Speaker 4 I just want to know why, Morgan. Why? Why did you, why did you let me?

Speaker 5 I remember emailing David Kelly's people, and he was in. And then I got a call like two days before he was going to come.
It's like, I'm sorry, from like some big CA agent or something.

Speaker 5 It's like, I'm sorry, what is this?

Speaker 3 Of course. And they killed it.

Speaker 5 That went away very quickly.

Speaker 3 I remember getting that email and being so, because there were like rumblings like, we're actually, I think we might shoot something and the writers might be coming up with something.

Speaker 3 And then getting the email and knowing for sure Morgan was on board meant that we might actually be doing that.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. He puts his brain on it.
Time will be carved out. And it was, I remember just being so excited that we were going to get to do it.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Because we'd been talking about at that point, maybe for like six months or so i don't i don't know do you figure out how long from when we had taken the picture to when we shot this whole

Speaker 5 it was at least most of a season it was like there was a really

Speaker 4 yeah i thought it was a while rashida do you have any memory of that early part i can't believe how long it was i'm like in shock that we spent so i do remember there was a lot of we talked a lot about our our backstories

Speaker 4 not just as characters but as the people playing the characters and how we interacted with each other on the set of Philly Justice.

Speaker 4 So it was like meta, meta, meta, like many, many levels of inception had been had been crafted to like really support the truth of this experience.

Speaker 2 I feel like you two and Han

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 whoever were on was and Amy who were on the chat had gotten, you had done so much work in just like in

Speaker 2 texting and like doing the bit of the show that you had accidentally created this very elaborate backstory and one of the pieces of the backstory was that dylan mcdermott had been in the pilot he of course a veteran of the practice and of other shows like that and then at some point and this is where we need morgan when did we reach out to dylan mcdermott to say we're doing this insane thing for no reason Do you want to be a part of it?

Speaker 2 And how did that go exactly? Do you remember?

Speaker 5 I think that we were, we wanted to do it. And we're like, we have these sets and we can shoot it.
And Rudd was doing a movie or something, was not available.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 That should be clear that Paul Rudd was not available. So instead of killing the fake show within the real show, we said, let's recast with Dylan McDermott, who very, very nicely said, yes, I'm in.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He didn't even, he said, I don't even think he said, what is this? He just said, I'm game. I'm in.

Speaker 2 Well, also, so then the, but the lore in the meta, meta, meta world became that Paul Rudd had been that character and had been recast after the table read

Speaker 2 and been replaced by Dylan McDermott, which is why he was going to be in it, not Paul.

Speaker 1 And during that time, we started talking about our characters. And if we have a second, because I know I don't have everybody for very long, if we could

Speaker 1 read the character descriptions of our characters,

Speaker 1 if bones, now you're in a car. I see you're in a car.

Speaker 2 Now you're driving. Fleeing the world.

Speaker 1 Now you're driving.

Speaker 1 this this is this is a real active zoom here i'm gonna yes i yes i'm here okay i'm sending i'm i'm sending you the um character description are you actually driving or is someone driving no wouldn't that be terrible no okay i'm no okay so um if i may um uh have our our actors here and then we'll we'll we'll fill in with hans and um and rudd slash mcdermott's character sure um rashida would you mind telling us the character you came up with for Philly Justice?

Speaker 1 So when we watch the trailer, we know what, you know, what kind of stuff you were working with.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, you got it. Okay.
So

Speaker 4 I was playing Joey Martinez, who was a first-year associate. She had a really rough background.

Speaker 5 Like

Speaker 4 she came from a hard, hard family background.

Speaker 4 She doesn't like to talk, but she's the one that gives it to you straight, even when you don't ask for her opinion.

Speaker 4 I mean, that's the beauty of joey is that even when you don't ask she's going to tell you what she thinks yeah that's joey yeah that's

Speaker 2 joey

Speaker 2 and women don't like her in the firm like especially holly but women in general don't like her in the firm because she's you know and holly was my character and it was fun for us to play enemies i'm sorry i just got the text that polar sent with these descriptions they are so long they're so long yeah there's hundreds of characters there's more work put into this than there was into the actual characters from parks and rec Yeah.

Speaker 4 Well, that's when it makes sense that we spent six months doing it.

Speaker 2 That's when it really

Speaker 2 makes sense. All right.

Speaker 1 Adam, you want to talk to us about your character? Sure.

Speaker 3 Nick Bellows. He's a district attorney.

Speaker 3 He rides his motorcycle to work, leather jacket with a tie.

Speaker 3 Was one of the fastest rising attorneys in Manhattan and was being groomed for partner at Powers, Cooper and Powers under the tutelage of his mentor/slash father figure, Blaine Powers.

Speaker 3 But the morning of September 11th, 2001, Nick was late to work because he was in bed with a woman. He'd been secretly seeing,

Speaker 3 Melina Powers, Blaine Powers' wife.

Speaker 2 Whoa, whoa.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 The location of Powers, Cooper, and Powers' offices, World Trade Center, North Tower, 67th floor.

Speaker 5 Bellows is the only survivor from his firm.

Speaker 2 Wow. Unbelievable backstory.
This is quite a backstory.

Speaker 3 It's crazy. I mean, think about the guilt.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 I just can't imagine.

Speaker 6 Just below the surface, you know.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 So Bellows went off the grid. He was believed to have perished along with his colleagues, but in fact, he grabbed his suitcase, leather jacket, and a 357

Speaker 3 Magnum and found his way to Afghanistan, determined to fight for justice in the one place, the only place that truly needs it.

Speaker 2 Good lord.

Speaker 2 That's also not true. There's a lot of places that need justice.
Yeah, yeah, quite a few. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Bellows has more demons than he can count. Now that he's back, he's on the right side of the law.
He cares about only one thing:

Speaker 3 one thing and one thing only: justice.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 So he's just to be clear, he's a district attorney who works at this law firm. Yeah, for some reason,

Speaker 2 he is at a private law firm. He didn't know.
He didn't know.

Speaker 2 You know.

Speaker 2 He went in. Wait, see, 9-11 made him grab a pistol and go to Afghanistan.

Speaker 3 His leather jacket and a gun and go to,

Speaker 2 I guess, independent of the armed forces.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he just went over there on his own.

Speaker 2 Hey, guys.

Speaker 2 Hey, guys, how could I help?

Speaker 1 So I'll blaze through the other fast one. So then we had Catherine Hahn, who was Valerie McNeil partner, criminal prosecutor, a machine, and no kids never married.
She isn't here.

Speaker 1 She also is very tough. She cares about the case over everyone else.
And in the trailer, there's a moment where you and Catherine kiss, Adam. Yeah.
I'm not sure why,

Speaker 1 but I always remembered it like,

Speaker 1 what's the

Speaker 1 Mandela effect? I always remembered it as Rashida and Catherine kissing.

Speaker 2 Oh, wait. No, you're not wrong.
There was a joke, and this is now coming back back to me.

Speaker 2 I think there was a joke that we were going to do a scene where, like, Adam and Catherine kissed, and then Adam and Rashida kissed, and then Catherine and Rashida kissed.

Speaker 2 And it was, it was like everyone is like making out with everyone.

Speaker 1 Okay, I remembered it as such, and I even said it on the pod, and a lot of people were excited to see that. And I just want to let everybody know that doesn't happen in the trailer.

Speaker 2 I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3 There's no footage of that.

Speaker 2 All right, what's your character?

Speaker 1 And very quickly, mine is Holly.

Speaker 1 Let's see. Holly McIntyre, junior partner, head prosecutor, stiff and quick to anger, doesn't make friends easily.
Everybody doesn't make friends.

Speaker 2 Everyone's the same.

Speaker 1 Her dad is Cameron McIntyre, owner of the firm. Oh, she's the daddy's girl.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And she's really worked her butt off to be taken seriously. She's a tough litigator.
Her father, played by Corbin Burnson, thinks that she cares too much.

Speaker 2 She does. Wait, I'm sorry.
Read the one right before that.

Speaker 1 Holly became a lawyer after a bunch of kids in her town died from lead poisoning.

Speaker 2 Yeah, sure.

Speaker 5 Jesus.

Speaker 1 She's hard on Joey Martinez, but only because she sees a lot of herself in her.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And she tends to go for married men who are older and a little mean. And then we also have

Speaker 1 Shane Chains.

Speaker 2 Shane Chains. That's Dylan's character's name.

Speaker 1 Also,

Speaker 1 let's not forget Nick Offerman played the judge. Yeah.
Nick, he says he remembers nothing other than he was just hanging around and someone said, can you play the judge? Do you remember that, Morgan?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 5 I remember we were talking about it the next day we were doing it. It's like, you guys don't work tomorrow and next, like, I'll come in tomorrow.

Speaker 6 What do I do?

Speaker 5 And I said, we need a judge.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 1 Well, we are very excited. We're going to have a world premiere.
Yeah. And, you know, it's really exciting.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 1 there's not a lot of things that

Speaker 1 we've just kept in a vault for all this time.

Speaker 2 No, we threw almost everything we did and then wrote new stuff for the gag reels that uh that we would release just to just to like in have let people enjoy the goofiness of the show but this has remained locked in a vault so this would have been made in what morgan 2011

Speaker 2 2012 wow so it's 13 years old 13 years that's pretty wild yeah i just want to say a lot of people have asked me like what the life what then what the future life of philly justice is yeah

Speaker 4 i mean we got to tell you know it's it could be nothing, but I think that people are very interested.

Speaker 2 And, you know, or it could be rebooted. It could be rebooted.

Speaker 5 It made me called about doing this. I'm like, this is going to end with us shooting more Philly justice.

Speaker 4 This is what I'm saying is that that's what I hope happens, like rebooting a show that never happened. I mean, there's nothing better than that.

Speaker 1 Rashida, Philly has never needed more justice than now. I mean, justice is needed.
So I think it's time to make it.

Speaker 2 I mean, if there's ever a time, it's now. I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 1 I will say that we, we, people that are listening to Good Hang, we hear you. You have been demanding to see this.
It is release Philly Justice Now. That have been the comment.

Speaker 1 That has been many of the comments. The comments are like, the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards Philly justice.

Speaker 1 Show it to me, Amy. Parentheses, Rachel.
Release the tape or accidentally group text it to all of us, which is another great one.

Speaker 1 Um, please, please, please, please, in the words of Leslie, no, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please.

Speaker 1 So, we are listening, we're learning, we're sharing, we are gonna play, and and will they be able to see it on the Zoom? Okay, are you guys ready to watch it?

Speaker 2 Yeah, okay, here we go.

Speaker 3 Yes, really exciting,

Speaker 5 Amy. Are you gonna play it from your oh,

Speaker 2 I am supposed to to play it i'm supposed to play it

Speaker 1 oh my god i'm i'm in charge oh no

Speaker 2 oh no you have to keep that

Speaker 1 17 seconds of silence okay so sorry about that guys thank you for waiting here we go

Speaker 8 For the first time ever on DVD,

Speaker 8 the legendary courtroom drama that no one has ever seen.

Speaker 7 Any more witnesses, counselor?

Speaker 1 Just one, Your Honor. Joey Martinez, the defense attorney.
What? This is preposterous, Your Honor. You can't possibly.

Speaker 2 Overruled.

Speaker 1 I hope you know what you're doing, McNeil. Just follow my lead.

Speaker 8 The show that broke all the rules.

Speaker 7 Your Honor.

Speaker 7 I only have one more witness.

Speaker 2 It's you.

Speaker 2 You can't do that!

Speaker 8 The courtroom drama that revolutionized television forever.

Speaker 7 What the hell are you doing here? What the hell are you doing here? I work here now. I work here now.
So do I. So do I.
We'll see about that.

Speaker 2 Well, we will see about that.

Speaker 1 Keep your history in your pants, boys.

Speaker 8 These lawyers play by their own rules.

Speaker 7 Permission to treat the witness as beautiful.

Speaker 1 Granted.

Speaker 8 And they play for keeps.

Speaker 7 Counselor, will you marry me?

Speaker 2 She can't.

Speaker 1 She's already married. To her job.

Speaker 8 Bring it home for the first time.

Speaker 2 Shit!

Speaker 7 You're a playboy and a social climber a rebel and an outlaw who plays by his own rules of course they're never gonna let me in their little club and experience what no one else has ever had the chance to experience let there be justice in philadelphia

Speaker 2 once again

Speaker 2 amy ponder

Speaker 8 adam scott

Speaker 8 Rashida Jones, Catherine Hahn,

Speaker 8 and Dylan McDermott.

Speaker 2 I'm a judge now and you're guilty, Your Honor.

Speaker 8 Philly justice.

Speaker 8 Coming this spring on DVD.

Speaker 1 Welcome to Philly, bitch.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 2 Wow. I feel like whoever

Speaker 5 wrote Perd Hapley's intros wrote the text for that trailer.

Speaker 2 Wait, Morgan, I have an important question for you, and I don't want to get too inside baseball. Is that Steady Cam? That is, right?

Speaker 5 Maybe.

Speaker 2 Did we hire a Steady Cam operator?

Speaker 2 We never used Steady Cam on the show once, probably. We hired a Steady Cam operator to shoot that?

Speaker 3 It looked like Steady Cam to me. Yeah, it probably was.

Speaker 2 Do you remember? Did we

Speaker 2 built a rig?

Speaker 5 We were going to do these walk and talks down the hallways, I think.

Speaker 1 You know, it really is shorter and less exciting than we really built it up to be. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, it's, it's, we got more.

Speaker 4 That was just, that was the

Speaker 2 trailer. We got more.
Somewhere there, yeah.

Speaker 3 We were shooting like a, a, an episode.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Essentially, right? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Who's never finished it?

Speaker 5 No, we were shooting an EPK to go around the pilot.

Speaker 6 Right.

Speaker 2 Yeah. There's, there's definitely, my guess would be that we looked at all of the footage and were like, This is a trailer.

Speaker 2 The way to do this is a trailer, not like long scenes or something. My favorite part of it is when, Adam, when you say, you're a social climber and a playboy, I'm a rebel who plays by his own rules.

Speaker 2 You're just like speaking the bios of the characters out loud,

Speaker 2 but in character.

Speaker 1 And you bring your motorcycle helmet to court.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Also, I can't, I'm confused as to who is able to object.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of objecting.

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, I feel like it, as Mike said, it was an example of how much fun we were having and how much fun we were allowed to have.

Speaker 1 So thank you, Mike and Morgan, for making Philly Justice a reality. I mean,

Speaker 2 our fun.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Rashida, for naming the show.

Speaker 3 Oh, my pleasure.

Speaker 1 And Adam, thank you for your work in Afghanistan, it seems like.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Thank you. No, thank you.
Thanks for creating space for me to go to Afghanistan with your pistol with a gun. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I know I'm sure Aziz is right off frame out of frame there. So tell Aziz I'm sorry he wasn't in it.

Speaker 3 Aziz, everyone says, hey, sorry you weren't in Philly just.

Speaker 6 Oh, he just walked out.

Speaker 2 Oh, he's in Rashida's car now.

Speaker 4 Oh, he's here.

Speaker 1 Aziz, everybody says, thank you. All right.
Thank you guys so much for jumping on. It means a lot.
And I think this will be a very special episode.

Speaker 3 Thanks for doing this. So fun.

Speaker 2 Bye, y'all.

Speaker 1 Love you guys. Love all of you.
Bye, guys.

Speaker 3 Love you.

Speaker 2 Love you.

Speaker 1 Morgan, let's get Philly Justice back together. Let's get a call sheet, Morgies.

Speaker 1 All right. Thanks all.
And thank you, Mike, for joining and talking about this. It was the best.

Speaker 2 It was so fun.

Speaker 1 So fun. Love you.

Speaker 2 Love you too. Bye, y'all.

Speaker 1 That was amazing. We got to see the trailer of Philly Justice, which really was the only thing we ended up making.
And

Speaker 1 we got to talk to the great Mike Scherr, who we need to have back to talk more about Parks and Rec because there's just so much to talk to him about. And

Speaker 1 if you're listening to this podcast and you want to watch it, you can go to Spotify or YouTube and see it there. It's only there on our podcast.
But,

Speaker 1 you know, also it might just be fun hearing it described and never watch it. But either way, thank you to everybody who joined us.

Speaker 1 And I think there's one one person that's just joining our Zoom right now

Speaker 1 that we were trying to get. Let's see if we can.

Speaker 1 There she is.

Speaker 2 Catherine Han.

Speaker 2 Catherine.

Speaker 2 Catherine.

Speaker 1 Catherine, you missed it.

Speaker 1 Catherine, I'm sorry. We did talk about your character, though.
And we're.

Speaker 2 Thanks.

Speaker 1 Kathrina on zooming in.

Speaker 1 Zooming in. I love you so much.

Speaker 2 Zooming in.

Speaker 2 Okay. Okay.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much, man. I love my friends.
Okay. Better late than never.
I'll take her any way I can get her. Okay.
Thanks, everybody. See you soon.

Speaker 1 You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and me, Amy Poehler.
The show is produced by The Ringer and Paperkite.

Speaker 1 For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McMullen, and Aalaya Zaneris. For Paperkite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss Burman.
Original music by Amy Miles.

Speaker 1 This episode is brought to you by Vitamin Water. Let's talk about Vitamin Water Zero Sugar.

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