Episode 469: Tamsen Fadal: Breaking the Menopause Silence (100+ Symptoms Your Doctor Never Mentioned)

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Greg.

Before we dive into today's episode, I want to thank our sponsor, Momentous.

When your goal is healthspan, living better, and longer, there are very few non-negotiables.

One of them, quality.

And when it comes to supplements designed for high performers, nobody does it better than Momentous.

Momentous goes all in on NSF certification, which means every single batch is tested for heavy metals, harmful additives, and label accuracy.

And that's why they're trusted by all 32 NFL teams and top collegiate sports dieticians across the country.

Here's the thing: they don't sell every supplement under the sun because they believe in nailing the basics with rock-solid consistency.

And those basics are protein and creatine.

Momentous sources Creopure, the purest form of creatine monohydrate available, an absolute must for both men and women who want peak physical and cognitive performance.

So, if you're serious about leveling up, go to livemomentous.com and use code JEN for 20% off.

Just act now, start today.

JEN for 20% off, livemomentous.com.

All right, you guys, we have Tamsin Fidel.

Is that how you pronounce your last name?

Yeah, Tamsin Fidel, who just wrote the book, How to Metapause, on the show.

Her book quickly became a smashing success on the New York Times best-selling list.

It's a great book.

Thank you.

Your documentary is great.

She's become now, I believe, kind of like one of the big faces in menopause.

Not expecting to.

Not a plan.

But sometimes God, you know, you make a plan, God laughs, right?

So true.

You know what?

I have learned that in a big way.

Right?

Like, did you ever think that this was going to be your life?

I was like, I am going to be a newscaster, and that's what I'm doing.

And I would never, if you'd told me that 10 years ago, I'd been like, I don't even know what you're talking about, menopause.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And just what I did five years ago, I didn't know.

And look at you now because you're not.

There's such a need, though.

That's the reason.

That's why we're all, everyone's like, why is menopause having such a moment?

I said, it's not a moment.

This is like, this should have been around for a long time.

I do feel though, and I wasn't even sure if it was because of where I am in life.

If it's, I'm only, is that why I'm seeing so much about menopause?

Or is it just, is it having like a huge moment in the zyge right now?

You know, that's what I thought.

I was like, is it my algorithm?

Yeah.

That's doing this.

It's just feeding it to me over and over.

But look, I think somewhat that.

But honestly, I really do think that this is a conversation because I'm hearing people of all ages.

come up and talk about it and men too talking about it

and being very aware that it's out there.

yeah that there's a conversation i think men are being

men are probably are aware of it because the women that they're we're making them be yeah because it's because there's so much more like i would say even like three years ago i was seeing almost nothing about about it and then one day like every third podcast we do now is about men

so weird you know what i mean i get it it's um it's funny i i didn't realize like you know early on we started the conversation it was really because i was trying to find find help.

That was really what it was.

And now, as we've gone along, I realized as I wrote the book, it was like it impacts every area of your life.

So, it does make sense that the podcast you're doing, like it, it has little touch points all over the place, whether it's workplace or how you work out or, you know, what you do with regard to mindset.

It's kind of everywhere.

Well, also, I, when I saw, I didn't know this stat until your book, but like, wasn't it like 50% of the workforce are women who are who are in menopause or something like that?

So, that's a huge stat.

It's huge.

We have a billion women globally.

Yeah.

You know, they are in this menopause transition.

6,000 in the U.S.

alone come into menopause and into this transition every day.

And then if you look at the workforce, we have so many women in the workforce that are older now, which is amazing, but also very aware of what they're going through or starting to be aware of it.

And, you know, we've got to have them get access and get some help and some care because there's some great things on the other side of it, but you got to get the symptoms handled.

And And there's so many symptoms, right?

It's not just like the right.

And I want you to talk about that because I think that people think, oh, hot flashes.

Right.

Right.

And that's basically where it begins and ends.

Right, right, right.

But there's so many

that you can be having that you didn't even think that it could be menopause, right?

Or perimetopause.

Well, yeah, it's like you play whack-a-mole with it.

Yeah, whack-a-mole is kind of like, I'm stressed out.

Okay, I'm going to go here.

I can't sleep.

I'm going to go here.

I'm gaining weight.

I'm going to, you know, hot flashes have always been, like you said, the ha-ha kind of like, oh, a hot flash is menopause.

But, you know, we're seeing now, because we know we have estrogen receptors all over our body, it totally makes sense.

And so it impacts everything.

It impacts your gums.

It impacts your teeth.

Like we had no idea until we set out doing that documentary that that was even anywhere near part of the conversation.

And, you know, side note, I had lost a tooth like a year before when we were in the middle of filming.

So I'm like, oh my gosh, what is this?

But was it because of menopause?

Well, they say that, you know, it infects everything.

Like you've got these estrogen receptors all over.

So it makes sense.

And

I was talking about it with somebody and she's like, I know, I'm having dental problems too.

But, you know, the 34 symptoms are the ones kind of I started talking about initially.

And then there was a recent study done and it was right as the book was about to publish.

And I pulled back and added this to it, that there were 100 plus recorded symptoms of menopause that had come from a researcher out of Canada.

So I was like, oh my gosh, I don't want people to be upset that there's like 100, but it makes sense.

Wow.

I know.

So what are some of the more unusual ones that people wouldn't even think about?

Yeah, that's a good question.

Okay.

So burning tongue or your tongue feels like it's burning, like kind of a little tingly.

Yeah.

I'm itchy ears because of so much dryness all over.

You know, brain fog, we talk about a lot now, but I don't think we had those words before.

Like I would just stop in the middle of a sentence or go somewhere and didn't know why or lose something or couldn't find my keys.

That happens to me every day.

My God.

I know.

I feel like that's happened to me my whole life, kind of.

I was going to say, what part is just like kind of who you are?

I don't know.

I mean, it's gotten worse but it's now gotten better because i'm kind of on the other side which feels really exciting yeah because when i was in the middle of writing the book i was like i need this thing to be brain fog proof because i can't remember anything right now you know joint pain is another one that i think women are not aware of and so they get very frozen shoulder or something else with inflammation which is really frustrating you know what's really interesting that's when i kind of figured well maybe i'm in perimenopause because i got a frozen shoulder oh yeah and i had no idea what i kept on like do you have any of the other oh irregular periods that's another one do you have Do you have the symptoms or do you know what your symptoms are?

I had it for two and a half years, just frozen shoulder.

I don't have it anymore.

Okay, good, good.

But I had it for a long time and I worked through it.

Like, I kept on like working, like working out, thinking I just hurt myself.

And then one day I went to the doctor and he's like, you know what, you have you have frozen shoulder and it's quite different.

Well, whatever you're doing now, your shoulders are amazing.

So thank you.

Yes.

You better come on more often.

I would love it.

Oh, my God.

I come here and work out with you.

Anytime.

I have a huge gym across the hallway.

And you can come over next time when we have more than 10 minutes to spend together.

We're going to to be good.

Good.

No, but like it took forever and I didn't know that that was like a sign of perimenopause.

Yeah.

Or what's the difference between perimenopause and menopause just for people who maybe haven't clued into this yet?

Yeah.

So perimenopause is everything before menopause and that's everything that happens.

before you go 12 months without your cycle.

So that perimenopause can be anywhere from four to seven to 10 years.

So if you back it up a little bit, I know it's a long time.

It's a long time of a lot of like craziness of your hormones.

You know, they're kind of all like roller coastery all over the place.

But, you know, menopause is at 12 months without a cycle.

And then everything after that is considered post-menopausal, but that's kind of complicated.

So basically, you're menopausal anytime after that.

But if you look at the average age, the average age of women in menopause in the U.S.

is 51.

And so if you back it up, 41, you could easily start that process.

And some women started even earlier.

I mean, there's some women that are in full-blown menopause at 46.

I was 48 when I got that, you know, first awareness of it.

And so anything before that I thought was a result of like my divorce and you know, and I didn't know what stress.

And it wound up as paramenopause.

It was crazy.

Well, that's what I find so interesting about how you're now the poster child for menopause, right?

Because, no, it's true, because you're not a doctor, you're a journalist, and how you kind of backed into it is really interesting to me.

Do you want to share the story so people are listening?

Yeah, I started out as a journalist.

I was a journalist for 30 years.

So, weird to say that, right?

I'm like, 30 years, years.

30 years.

It sounds so long.

I know.

And I was one night doing the evening news in 2019.

And I was having kind of brain fog, but I didn't know what it was.

But I had been having that for a while where I'd look at a word, I'd see the word, and I'd know the word habits, but I'd be like,

I don't know what that is.

And it wouldn't come out of my mouth.

And I would keep moving on.

And so, and that would happen on and off, like whatever the word wasn't habits, but whatever the word was.

And then that particular night, I got this into, have you had Hot Flash before?

No.

Oh, yeah.

So this one, I mean, they're all different intensities, but this one was really super intense.

And I didn't know what it was.

And it just came from the core of my body.

And I just broke out in a sweat everywhere.

And I'm like, I feel like I'm going to fall over.

My heart was racing.

And two of my coworkers, one of my coworkers, walked me off the news desk.

I didn't finish the broadcast.

Somebody else did.

And I went right down to the back to the bathroom floor because it was the only place that was cool.

You know, I was like, I just got like, I'm going to pass out.

And I thought maybe there was something going on with my heart because that was where I was at.

And so, anyway, about 15, 20 minutes later, I left the station and I started, I was like, oh my gosh, something happened, you know, the following week.

I got to figure out what's happening.

And so I went to my GP, like, no, you know, no, maybe it's stress, maybe it's this, maybe it's that.

I talked to another doctor and I was put on Lexapro.

And so that was for, you know, antidepressants, but I was still having like weird stuff going on.

And I was not sleeping.

That was like a big one, which affects, as you know, everything.

And I ended up going to an endocrinologist.

And then my, my gyno gave me the results from the test and it said in menopause dot dot dot any questions and that was my note in my patient portal so i was like what i can't be in menopause i'm too young but you know like literally almost the average age and then i wound up like doing this deep dive of like i'm gonna handle this naturally i've got to figure this out what am i gonna do i lost my mom early to breast cancer so i'd never had a conversation with her about it and so that's how i set out to ask questions ended up on social media listing those symptoms the original ones were like 34 of them yeah i wound up listing them and I got like all these different responses.

Like, oh my gosh, I, me too.

And I didn't even have half the symptoms.

I just couldn't believe there was so many.

Yeah.

And that's what's so amazing about it.

So amazing.

And how are women?

I just didn't understand it.

And so I went to Instagram.

When I went to Instagram, that's really when things were like, what is going on here?

There's all these women not talking about that.

And so I just kept answering their questions.

I would research.

They'd be like, I can't sleep, blah, blah, blah.

And I'd be like, okay, I'm going to answer this question.

So I'd research it, get the study, put it up.

It was very, you know, and that was kind of like my during the day.

I did that before I went to work and did the news.

And I did it.

Yeah, for years.

And then I left my job 16 months ago to do this, you know, to fill out.

We had the documentary come out in October of last year.

And then the book came out, you know, just recently.

Wow.

So it's like, that's not that long ago.

Well, I was, it's that, that conversation started like 20 in 2020 is when I started doing it, but 16 months ago is when I actually left.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Like, that's not that long.

16 months ago is not crazy.

It's crazy.

It's not that long.

and like what's so like again fascinating to me let's do a couple things the first thing is that i think that the problem is there's such a stigma like you're like being an aging woman in our society is like the kiss of death in every way right it is so i mean it's has been it has been yeah so there's the stigma to say oh i'm in menopause i'm having these menopausal symptoms yeah is like i think for a woman there there's shame so they just right there's a lot of shame that people just don't want to talk about and so it just gets pushed under the rug.

Yeah.

So what I like about the fact that now there's so much like chatter about it, me too.

There is like the shame has kind of like subsided now.

And we're everyone, everyone's screaming from the rug.

I am menopause.

I mean, I'm doing this.

I have that.

Like, you know what I mean?

It's so funny.

I was in Miami, like now it's been a couple of months.

And this woman rolled down.

My husband and I were crossing the street.

And this woman rolled down her car window.

And she was like, Tamson, I'm in perimenopause.

Like, and threw her arm out the window like with a fit and i went oh what i

yay and then my husband's like what did she say i said she's in perimenopause he's like like a club and i said i guess sort of yeah it was like really funny though to so funny to me crazy it was and she was but what made me really excited about that is that she was young and she was really like took it like it was a cool was fine like it wasn't this i don't want anyone to know like how i went into it and a lot of us have gone into it like oh gosh this is embarrassing.

Cause you're right.

It's been a kiss of death.

Yeah.

And it's been like

ageism and menopause and all this, like all of it.

Now what, now who am I?

Exactly.

I think it's scary.

It's like kind of like a sign to a woman that she's old.

Yeah.

Basically, like you're basically done.

It's over.

And so I think that's like really what the conversation has is moving toward is like really.

Looking at this timeline where we say, okay, we're at, we had our periods, right?

We're in our, you know, our reproductive years.

And then we come over here and it's like,

don't talk about it.

It's just very quiet.

And we can see that, what that silence has done for a very long time.

So, so I'm glad people are loud about it because I think we got a lot of making up to do.

Right.

Like, is that kind of why you wrote the book in a way to kind of have, just to kind of be another voice for what it is and kind of give women who don't necessarily have the information information.

Yeah, I think a couple of reasons, like when I originally set out to do it, it was because there were so many questions that I was trying to answer and I couldn't.

It's not like one or two things, you know, because no woman is the same.

The symptoms you have or I have or any will always be different and always, it's so unique.

And so I think that because there were so many things to talk about in it, like just the symptoms themselves, and then that didn't even go into the lifestyle changes.

Because when you think about it, if you're a woman that doesn't want to do hormones or can't do hormones, then you need to know what your options are.

And that's not a lot of the conversation right now.

It hasn't been.

And so there's all the lifestyle aspect of things.

So I interviewed 42 experts for for the book and I was excited about that because that's what, that's like what I'd love to do is really for a living.

And I love like hearing, you know, different viewpoints of things, but all also like taking that information and distilling it so it wasn't like very dense because I'm not a doctor and I, you know, I just can't do that.

But I wanted it to also be brain fog proof.

Like women are, I kept thinking like the woman that's reading this is probably not sure what's about to happen to her or is sure what's happening to her and can't like even focus a little bit, doesn't feel good, feels terrible and wants to know if there's some hope.

And so that's kind of what I did with each one of the chapters and how I broke it up.

So it starts out with explaining how we got here, you know, from our past and then talking about hormonal, non-hormonal.

And then we really move into, you know, the symptoms, obviously, that was a big chapter of understanding what those all mean.

And then the rest of it is where it impacts you past the doctor's office.

It impacts us at work, in the boardroom, in the bedroom.

It impacts us in relationships.

It impacts us in, when it comes to mindset, when it comes to our bodies, our closets, our all of that, all of that is impacted.

And so it was important for me to just hit upon those things because I kept hearing from women, like, my skin's different, my hair is different, my, my body, like,

and some women would weigh the same, but their body distribution of fat would be different.

The composition of their body fat.

And it would be, it would really, it was, it's been really hard for a lot of women, and I understand it.

So I wrote it, I was like, well, there's no what to expect when you're not expecting or in menopause.

So I'm writing that book.

So it's a how-to guide.

It's great.

And then thank you.

What were some of the things that you gleaned from the experts that you had that was surprising to you?

Well, I think, you know what, I want to go back to the other question you asked because it'll answer this one too.

One of the reasons that I really like went in hard on this is because I think women have to be their own experts with this.

And we don't have a choice because a lot of doctors were not educated and some are, some are very, you know,

not educated.

100%.

100%.

Did you, I find that still, like MDs are not, like, I've been to three MDs and they're all like, oh, you're fine.

Like, I totally believe that.

So what's that?

So what are you supposed to do with that?

I know.

Well, and that's what this was for.

That's really what it was for.

And so a lot of them, it's not doctor's fault, but they did not learn this in medical school, most of them, especially not in different disciplines.

And so, so that was very concerning to me that an OBGYN has less than a month of learning about this time in a woman's life.

That didn't even make sense to me.

And two, because we have so many women that are dealing it so quickly, not enough of those doctors to go around.

Luckily, we have telehealth now, but there's still a lot of women that don't have access, like they need to know what's going on so they don't feel like they're going crazy.

So if just the low-hanging fruit is to like get the information, that was really what this was for.

And so women could feel like they could take charge.

So if they do go into a doctor's office like that and the doctor's like, oh, this is just what happens when you age.

Right.

Or, you know, the symptoms aren't that bad.

So if they're not, not that bad, I wouldn't go on hormone therapy.

I mean, these are the things that we hear, women are hearing every day.

So I wanted women to feel really empowered to go, you know what?

That's not okay.

I'm either going to another doctor or that's not okay.

Here's why it's not okay.

And so that they have actual resources and references, like the reference section is like that thick in the book, but only because if somebody wants to go into more detail, I want them to be able to do that.

Right.

I think all we, I think the medical system is so broken.

I agree with you.

Right.

I agree with you.

That you need to be your own advocate for everything across the board, right?

Across the board.

Yeah, not just, not just menopause, but across the board.

And I never want to blame doctors because I no doctor gets into this field of these hours and education and debt and all that, you know, to not help.

But I do think that the system is broken.

And so I do think that in any way that we can arm women with something that can help them right away, instead of saying, hey, we're going to try to do another study in 20 years and maybe we'll get you, you know, get your granddaughter some help.

You know, women now need help.

Well, one of the big problems is that

I think you do talk about this, that there was a study about HRT, right?

Hormone replacement therapy.

It's dangerous.

So then so many women are fearful

of going on this, doing it.

And so really, like, besides doing that, like, you can make some light, you can exercise, you can do a lot of strength training, all the, those, those things that can help.

Right.

But it doesn't take you over the, like, it doesn't kind of like push that, you know, the, the, what do you call that?

The, the, the needle or the needle.

Or does it push the needle?

No, but I was going to say push that thing up the oh, rock up the hill?

Yeah, rock up the hill.

It's like, this is my, this is my, this is my brain right now.

No, I've got the other half of you.

I'm, I've got you.

Thank God.

I totally understand.

This is exactly what happened.

I get a loss for words.

This is another great symptom.

Yeah.

Another great symptom.

Yeah, you're right, though.

It really does.

And

I think that I don't want women to feel discouraged either going into this time in life or in this time of life because I see them like really doing some amazing things.

Like I see women during this time getting this whole new sense of freedom about themselves and this whole new sense of purpose.

And like they're really unstoppable.

It's, it is incredible what I've seen women do.

And so I do, I do want to try to help them get past those symptoms.

And the hurdle at that point.

It's the hurdle of all of it.

It's like the symptoms, it's the fear, it's the mindset shift that we have to have.

And, you know, I, I watched my mother and I didn't realize that she went, I didn't realize that when you had breast cancer and she had a double mastectomy and chemotherapy, she was pushed into a medical menopause.

I don't know if she ever knew that.

And so that breaks my heart.

The fact that, like, she would sweat all the time.

She'd always be hot.

And we were like, why are you so hot all the time?

And everyone would laugh.

And she would laugh.

And it broke my heart when I realized it about three years ago.

And I was talking to my dad and my brother, because I have a very small family and we're really close.

And my dad said, Do you think that your mom was in menopause?

And I said, Well, did she ever mention it?

And he said, Never.

And I said, I actually don't know if she knew or not, but I definitely know she suffered alone.

And so I really made a pact kind of to myself that if, you know, there was something that I could do, that this was going to be it.

And so we did the documentary, and it's now been seen in like 450 plus cities and 40 plus countries.

It's a great documentary.

Thank you.

But it's amazing, like the conversation that happens afterwards with it.

Right.

You know, and I think it's a big, it's why you have those conversations.

Yeah, I mean, of course, of course.

I also am very curious and I like to know.

And let me tell you something.

Honestly, I'm somebody who is curious and asks all the right, asks questions to experts all the time.

And I'm still sitting here perplexed.

Like if you don't do hormone therapy, what are the options?

Like, I think there's not much you can do except like, you know, like white, like kind of white fist this thing because that's the only thing that really, I think, does move the needle besides strength training and all these.

Yeah, well, all the, all the lifestyle changes.

Yeah, all the lifestyle changes.

You know, there's, there are some new advances in medicine, obviously.

And there's a couple of things that like I always want women that can't or don't want to do it because right now we went from like 38% of women in this country that were on hormone therapy back in 2002 down to like 4%.

Maybe we're creeping up to five now.

And so, and those are like the like the numbers from about a year or so ago when we did the filming.

So, I look at it.

There, there is a prescription that is for as a non-hormonal to help with hot flashes, but that's what it helps with is hot flashes.

Okay.

There is vaginal estrogen that is pretty safe for all women, right?

And that's helpful for painful sex because that's you know, just another area that really is terrible for women to be dealing with and then you know yes the other things are those lifestyle changes so i'm just hopeful that some of this research shows different ways to go about things and when we did the book we i made sure we did a lot of the non-hormonal options that are out there only because i kept thinking of my mother like what would what would she yeah do would she be they were like good luck you know it'll only be 10 plus years of suffering and then you'll get past it hopefully so i i kept thinking about her when i was writing that because you know we're talking about a lot of women that still are not comfortable or can't do it 100% that's what I think that's what I really liked about the book as well is because of the because of the non-hormone because I think people are very I mean a hundred percent and you can say all you want that they're you know the fears are

they're it was overblown it was not it was it was done with very

the data didn't support it it was a selected study all the things but psychologically people can still be very scared to go on hormones I'm glad you said that because I agree with you.

We could talk till we're blue in the face, but the truth of the matter is, is that if you have a set belief, despite any of the data, and look, I put a lot of those references in the back because I am not, I'm not a doctor.

And it was really important for me to go deep into that research and make sure that we answered all questions and made sure that women felt comfortable and made sure that women could do it, the reading of it themselves.

But if you don't feel comfortable with that, there's nothing I'm going to say that's going to change your mind, maybe, but not everybody.

And so I wanted women to be aware of, you know, what that study was, where we are today in 2025.

I mean, that study was 23 years ago now.

I know.

You know, it's on, but imagine how long that has taken to take root.

So it is taken root down here.

And to think we're just going to be able to like, you know, to toss that aside in a few years, it's not going to happen.

So we've got to get those women some help.

I agree.

Have you noticed in your findings, though, that lots of, it's mostly functional medicine doctors who are much more progressive

with other things.

Versus MDs like OBGYNs.

Right.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I think that it all comes down to what educating.

And, you know, a lot of those doctors are educating themselves.

I sat down with one when I was in Chicago, actually, and she had moved into more functional medicine.

And she said, you know, I really did this study myself about all of it because it wasn't just menopause, but it was just a little, it was everything.

And I think, you know, when you're talking about root causes, that is.

extremely important, especially during this time, because there are gut issues, there are thyroid issues, there are cholesterol issues.

There's a lot of things that come up during this time, along with all this other stuff of being a woman.

Right.

What are you going going to do?

So the, how will, okay, so in the workplace, because you talk about that, what can people do in the workplace?

Like, what is the options?

I mean, right, you know, like in some workplaces, which is great, some of the benefits will cover hormone therapy or at least hormone, you know, go to a place and get a coaching, whether it's telehealth or something else, but not enough.

And so I think, you know, if you're in the workplace and you were dealing with those kind of symptoms and you feel like you're comfortable enough to go in there and address it with HR, that's what I did.

And unfortunately at the time, they're like,

what's a menopause policy?

Like, it wasn't even hard.

Yeah.

It didn't even have, like, I was gluing words together, you know, and I said, well, they did it in the UK.

You're like, wow, like Charlie Brown.

Yeah, you're talking a whole new language there.

Yeah, it was.

I was like, here it is.

Yeah.

Because the UK really has been very advanced with a lot of things way, you know, way ahead of where we've been for a long time.

And hopefully, you know, we catch up.

But I think if you are willing or able to go talk to HR and try to do anything, whether it is finding a way to have group conversations for women's groups, finding a way to educate women or bring a speaker in there just to talk so you feel a little more comfortable.

And then obviously benefits.

I mean, there's other things like, can everybody have a fan at their desk?

You know, if you're working in a factory, can you change uniforms?

There's some actual real changes because we all work in a different environment.

You know, we all work in different kinds of workplaces.

Not everybody is sitting in a corner office.

So we have to take that into consideration too, when we're talking about these kind of changes.

What are some of the things that are top of mind that you really, like I said before, I'm going to go back to the question, from the experts, the doctors, the people that you, 42 people you interviewed, what were some of the things that really surprised you the most?

And that also, that's the first part of the question.

And then the second part that you found to be like really helpful thing, tips for other people that people may not, when they listen to this podcast, that they can maybe like, oh, I never fixed that one way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that for me, the surprising part was obviously that lack of education that scared me quite a bit, but made me really determined I think that the other thing was the fact that you know we have so much research it hasn't been done on a lot of things women weren't even part of studies until the mid 90s like mandated to be part of studies I thought that was just crazy wow and then I think my other concern was the dismissal of women you know really like thinking that women can can suffer through it and not realizing there's those long-term health ramifications that are possible when it comes to bone and brain and heart health and so that that scared me quite a bit because i I didn't realize that when we were talking about treating menopause, we weren't just talking about these like things, these symptoms we're talking about.

We're talking about long-term longevity, you know, health span.

So that's one area.

And then I think that some of the tips that I thought were helpful really came in the area of sleep.

Sleep was a huge area that I was going to just like make it a chapter along with brain.

And then I realized like that was a chapter that I really leaned into quite a bit because it's where women suffer, you know, along with weight, weight gain and belly fat.

But sleep was a place place where people were really, really suffering.

And so to understand, you know, the importance of that sleep hygiene, a sleep routine, understanding how important it is to get up in the morning and get moving, how important it is to make sure that you're in bed the same time as best as possible and getting up at the same time, light and how light impacts us in so many different ways.

Right.

So I didn't understand how important all that was.

And when I did the initial interview, I'm like, oh, there's so much more.

So I went back and did another interview with another specialist because I, I really do believe that if women can at least get something handled and that's not always easy because our hormones are everywhere fluctuating and we wake up in the middle of the night and then we're wide awake at three o'clock in the morning for no reason but i feel like if at least they can start tackling that part which you can do right away then at least you have a fighting chance to start feeling a little bit better and then belly fat's another big one too belly fat's a huge one right

it's a huge one and i i see a lot of incredible experts out there that are focused on fitness for women over 40, which is, I think, is really, really important because a lot of women didn't go to the gym and do weights.

We did cardio.

We stayed away from the boy weight room.

Yeah.

We were like, no, we're going to sweat it out until, you know, we did aerobics.

We did aerobics on that dang step.

Yeah, this step is half aerobics.

That blue step.

So I do think that there's a learner, there's a learning curve there that we have to have.

There's a lot of, you know, the thing is, there's so much like cross-information, right?

Okay.

You know, people, you know, cold plunges, for example, is that is the thing.

Do you have them?

Yeah, I do have them.

Oh, gosh, that's awesome.

I, but I'll tell you something.

I had a doctor on here dr.

Stacey Sims was on here and and she's an I really she's got such great information

and you know what I liked about her was she's very she was contrary to all the a lot of the like

the noise out there right yep yep and like to be she said that the cold plunge for women is actually not beneficial.

I know, I know.

Right?

It stresses your body too.

Which didn't bother me that much because I don't really love it.

Believe me, I was thrilled.

I wanted an excuse.

Excuse me, cover yours up, right, right, right.

Not to do it.

Let's find like five more things.

And she said,

I've got a million.

I wrote down.

I'd like to have them.

I have soul cycle.

I did that one.

Well, that's the other thing.

Like some of the hits and stuff that a lot of women, you know, have.

thought was great.

There's a lot of people that are saying like, no, that's not necessarily where you need to focus.

Well, because like heavy car, like all the spinning and the, and like, God, what we can do for ourselves.

Because, number one, it breaks down your muscle or your lean muscle mass.

100%.

And especially as you get older, you need more muscle.

So it's like it's doing the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish.

Well, and I also think about women that have not been offered hormone therapy too, because there is a whole generation, if not more, that never got that option.

Yep.

Let's quickly talk about a health issue that affects almost all of us, fiber deficiency.

Did you know that 95% of people don't get enough fiber in their daily diet?

I was shocked when I learned this because fiber is truly the foundation of overall wellness.

It's not just about keeping our digestion smooth and regular, although of course that's super important.

But fiber also nourishes the good bacteria in our gut.

It supports a balanced microbiome, helps us feel fuller for longer, which makes managing our weight even easier.

And it even improves our energy by optimizing nutrient absorption and stabilizing our blood sugar.

That's why I am really excited to share Biome's Daily Prebiotic Fiber with you.

This product makes meeting your daily fiber needs simple, enjoyable, and super effective.

With eight grams of fiber per serving plus gut-friendly prebiotics, it's designed to close that fiber gap in your diet and support your digestion and gut health every single day.

And it fits effortlessly into your routine.

Just mix it in the morning smoothie, or tea, or coffee, or afternoon snack, and you're good to go.

I love that it's so easy to prepare, and you can incorporate with literally every busy lifestyle.

So, if you want to make getting fiber easy, visit Biome, that's b-i-om-e.com and enter code jennifer20 for 20% off your first order of daily prebiotic fiber.

That's biome.com, code Jennifer20 for 20% off.

Grab it today.

So, you know, what I saw in the book,

when I was like putting my little, you know, those little dog dog tags, whatever, you did a big chapter on relationships, divorce.

Yeah.

Why did you do that?

Well, I went through a divorce in my early 40s, which I'm assuming I was already in that area of perimenopause, but didn't know.

Right.

But I was dating my now husband in perimenopause into,

and I got married in menopause.

And I realized that there were a lot of questions like that I had.

Sex wasn't comfortable.

I had no libido.

I got married and I was like, oh, I don't have any libido.

And it's, it's really upsetting because you're like, oh my gosh, is it the relationship?

Is it us?

Am I not attracted to him anymore?

Is he not attracted to me?

It was very

unsettling.

And then I also was thinking about the fact that like, wow, what if I was through this dating?

Cause I actually did have like a real drive with him when I was in perimenopause.

I hit menopause and I was like,

that was it.

So I really felt like it was important to lean into that and also not to feel uncomfortable with it.

And I think sometimes that we reserve sex for this like whimsical fun, you know, like it's fun, it's young when we're young and then we're older and we don't have that conversation.

And I think it's a real shame.

And I think that a lot of women don't feel sexual or sexually attractive or feeling, you know, like, you know, they're in their hot groin.

And so I really wanted to, I really wanted to like lean into that a little bit.

And so, you know, I interviewed Emily Morse.

I interviewed a number of different doctors.

We talked about testosterone.

We talked about vaginal estrogen.

We talked about lube.

We talked about things that like, we shouldn't just be talking about as like toys.

You know, we should really be talking to them as part of a bedroom routine.

And so also that women can know their own body too.

Cause I think that that's the beautiful part of sex during this time is that we know ourselves as well.

And it's not just like, oh, I hope he knows what he's doing or hope she knows, you know.

Yeah.

And I i think that that's um important that we know ourselves in a relationship because i found i i i like i found that really interesting and probably like very smart right because if you're someone who's new to dating again like in this in that in this stage of life right and you are going through this right like you don't like you wouldn't know the difference between if it's just a symptom like oh your libido is low or is am i just not interested in this person and then like relate the whole relationship can go you know basically blow up it's yeah and i and I, and it really is, I think, very under talked about.

And I think it's really uncomfortable.

And I don't know the next last time I've ever been in a doctor's office where they were like, okay, how are you feeling?

How's your weight?

How's your sex life?

No one has ever asked me that.

No.

And because we make it be like, oh, that's a private thing.

Well, no, because that is all tied up in everything that we're going through right now, especially that.

And also, I shouldn't even say just like dating, right?

Because if you're married forever.

Yeah, of course.

And that's another thing.

Right.

And so it affects like, you know, you're like, I wonder how many relationships, kidding aside, have ended.

Oh, sure.

Right.

Because like the woman's not interested anymore.

And it's not because the guy doesn't understand or the partner doesn't understand.

Yeah.

Right.

And they don't, or they think it's because like there's no interest anymore or that like they're, they're, the romance is gone, whatever it is.

The romance is dead.

But who knows?

But maybe it's just that.

Very easily.

I bet a lot of people are not even keeping that, like are not kind of cognizant that that could be a

situation.

I don't think so.

And I think it's very, I'm sure it's very prevalent.

And, you know, there was a study that was done, and I can't remember the year, but it was talking about the number of women in midlife that were filing for divorce.

And I thought that that was very interesting, initiating.

Much higher than men.

Much higher than men.

And so I'm, I was really aware of some of those conversations.

And I think there's so much more to do, but I wanted to touch on it because I thought it was important to bring that up and to also talk about, you know, with an, I wish I had done another chapter on this and I just couldn't, but I, I put it in this one.

I did like a love letter to my partner.

And so I really wanted, and that's what Emily read actually in the bookstore.

But I thought it was really important for partners who might not have, you know, they might not have had the conversation before to be able to hear something of like what a woman is thinking or going through during this time.

I thought that was really important because I don't, I don't think it's easy to verbalize.

And I think it's really difficult to communicate sometimes when you can't even communicate it with yourself.

Right.

And I think that's, again, it comes down to like not understanding the shame.

Not understanding what we're going through.

We're just learning.

We're on a learning curve right now.

Exactly.

And I think like, you know, it's become, it's becomes like one of those things, like, you know, your husband or boyfriend, whatever is like, oh, yeah, she's, she's on her period or she's like dealing with this.

Like, it's very much like kind of

hormones.

Exactly.

And it's like not taken seriously.

Yeah.

It's definitely not taken seriously.

Not at all.

It's not taken seriously.

And it's also been kind of very mocky.

And I think that that's what we have to get beyond.

And And I think the media has not done a great job of that.

I mean, we didn't talk about any of these kind of studies.

I don't remember any of these kind of studies.

I remember studies when I was on the air doing the news about heart, about weight gain, about risk of stroke, Alzheimer's, all the time, food groups, all the, you know, all the different, like, you should eat eggs, you shouldn't eat milk, you should have, you know, all that stuff.

I don't remember talking about perimenopause.

Totally.

Menopause.

I don't remember talking about any of that stuff.

No.

And so.

It's not sexy.

It's not sexy.

I don't know if it, you know, well, now it is.

But it was.

Yeah, exactly.

Now it's a little more sexy.

So what is your routine?

How did you kind of overcome those symptoms and kind of go through menopause in such a good way?

Like, what did you do?

Well, I don't think I did in such a good way.

I think it was a struggle for a long time.

You know, I had some really like dark days that I didn't even know were perimenopause.

I think that

you got over the hump.

Yeah, I got over the hump.

Yeah.

And so I really had to focus on what was important.

Like I did, I did the typical, I don't need to sleep.

This is, it's fine.

I can push through everything.

And then I realized one day, like, you, you're, this is, this is it.

Like, this is the time that's going to set you up as more I study this for the next 30 to 40 to 50 years.

So you better figure it out, girl.

Like, you know, I really, I really did have to.

stop a little bit and refocus what was important.

And especially past 51, because that's when I lost my mom.

So I didn't really have that roadmap of what when she was 51, what that looked like past 51 years old.

And so, you know, I did decide to do HRT HRT and I do.

And it was a big game changer.

Very helpful with sleep, very helpful with hot flashes, very helpful with night sweats, which were a big problem.

I really did change workout routine like immediately as soon as I realized what was going on with strength training, though I always really liked lifting weights, but I thought I had to do cardio to like the crazy, you know,

amount.

And then, you know, I did focus on my sex life quite a bit.

I really did.

It was not a, that wasn't like, okay, I'm doing some vaginal estrogen and lube and everything's fine.

Like it really did have to take conversation and commitment to it, and really kind of, you know, figuring that out and being open and honest about conversations that were uncomfortable.

Right.

Well, I told you before, like, Emily is like one of my best friends.

So, like, you're like,

you've been having this conversation forever.

No,

she talks about this with me all the time.

And I'm always like, I hear it all the time.

You know what I mean?

I'm like, oh, God.

You know, it's like, it's like, because I always laugh and joke around with her because it's part of her vernacular.

That's how she talks.

Like, we went on this trip.

Her and I went on a biking trip to Croatia and, like, every with like a bunch of people.

We don't know.

We didn't know them.

Yeah.

We had to have dinner with them every night.

And like,

her wording and her verbiage is very different than what like a normal person would be.

It was hilarious.

It's great.

It's great.

So funny.

So funny.

Well, it's funny to watch how people are like, what?

I know.

We were in Marnes Noble.

She rolled off her tongue, though.

Oh, yeah.

She hasn't think anything about it.

We were in Marnes and Noble and we were like, this is, it was at the grove and it was a few weeks ago.

And we were in the middle, like where you are.

You're kind of like by the, you know, I think there was like cookbooks, and I don't know what else was behind us.

And we went to do the QA and people are like, um, I want to talk about my sex life.

And I was like, great.

And then we're like, Ellen and I are talking.

And I kind of looked around.

I was like, we're in the cookbook section of the bookstore.

Is that okay?

That we're like, but it was great.

That's hilarious.

And the store was awesome about it.

They love, you know, it was just, it was really wonderful to see it so open.

And it came up afterwards.

They were like, thank you.

And I was like, no, thank you.

I feel like all of it, like the sex stuff, the sex talk is becoming a little bit more mainstream.

It's still uncomfortable, though, like to a lot of people, me included.

Not because of anything.

It's just like I'm not used to it.

Except I don't think any of us were.

Nobody is, you know?

None of us were.

And, you know, I do think that paying attention to mindset with all this is really, really important because I didn't.

have any way to control stress.

I didn't pay attention to any of that stuff.

I was like, oh, yeah, okay, I'll have time to meditate.

Sure.

Exactly.

I just, I didn't have those, I didn't have those habits built in.

And so I had to learn them.

so what are your habits like what do you do every day now yoga is huge for me even if I can do 10 15 minutes like that is my that is my meditation really that's every day well if I do it it's short it can be very very short but that's what I do in the morning okay like I go outside and walk in the morning first thing come back and do that and then I'll decide if I'm lifting weights but I can't do like three hours of working out like I don't I just don't have that right and I don't have that I don't want to do that I don't want it to be where I'm not looking forward to something lifting is huge for me and then with stress management I you know I really have gotten into a place where I understand what I can and can't do and understand my focus.

It takes a lot of focus for me nowadays, different than what it used to.

It takes a little more brainpower, different than what it used to, but I've embraced that part of it.

And I let myself, you know, be okay with it.

I'm okay if I have to go to bed early.

I'm okay if I, you know, if I just can't be perfect and I can't be all the time.

Right.

No, I know it's also having grace with yourself, I think, is a big piece of it.

It's huge.

I was saying to a friend, I was like, yeah, we were at a hotel and I said, I'm just going to go to bed early because I just really need to like, I need to like take care of myself tonight.

My old me would be like, what time do you want to go downstairs?

I'll totally go to dinner and I'd be dreading it the whole time.

Yeah.

I would hate doing it.

I'm so, you know, I'd be like, why did I agree to this?

And we'd be so resentful.

And now I'm like, nope, I'm not doing it anymore.

And that comes with age.

I don't feel like that.

I think that's an age thing.

I think so.

I still get myself in that situation though.

I do too.

So you can call me whenever and I'll give you permission to cancel.

See, this is why I love Emily because like, I, you know, like we make plans a hundred times and we never do half of them because we're too tired.

But it's great.

It's a real friend that we're like, I'm not interested.

I don't want to do it.

And that's another thing I want to say real fast.

Community is huge during this time.

I think I have built a community of people that I feel like really,

so, so lucky every day to have around me.

So lucky.

And keep meeting new ones like you.

You know, I'm having to know you for a long time.

I hope so.

You're adorable.

Yeah, so I feel very lucky about that.

I think that's great.

You know what I was saying earlier when we were like, oh, what was I saying?

What were we talking about?

We were talking about the cardio.

We're talking about heart, like the crazy cardio that we would do.

Yeah, because we thought we had to do that to keep the weight off or to like, you know, part of the.

And I mean, I had an eating disorder then.

I read a true one where I would not eat or I'd eat and I'd go to the gym and I had to work it down.

Like every, I wrote down calories like gum.

I wrote everything.

Like even

everything.

Until what time?

Until when in life?

I got really sick.

I was 20.

How old was I at that point?

I think I started around 26.

I had moved to Orlando.

Maybe I was 28 by now.

And I was, I had gotten sick, like a flu or something, and I couldn't stand up.

And my father had to come carry me down two flights of stairs.

Can you imagine that?

Yeah.

And I had like, you know, I was brought to the hospital and then they put me into therapy.

And that's really, that's where therapy really started for me.

And it was a game changer.

It was.

Yeah.

But I mean, it took a long time.

You know, it took a long time.

But I know that it was because of how I, you know, the, that mindset of what we, we learned and what we thought was important.

And it's so hard to unravel that.

Oh, it's still always there.

It's always back there.

It always kicks back there, but it is very hard to unravel, but I'm very, very clear of my why now.

You know, my why is not skinny.

My why is to be strong and to feel

satisfied with that.

You know what I mean?

Versus never enough.

I'm tired of the never enough.

And that's what I feel like I did for a long time.

Like, it's never enough.

More, keep going, more.

And, you know, I don't feel like that anymore.

I think it's also priorities change as you get older as well you know they totally change i don't i don't i have two bonus kids so two bonus kids

how did you guys meet by the way oh gosh so we met um after i swore i would never get married again ever never ever get married again and then i met him in miami he was at a conference for uh work and i was hanging out at this hotel by the pool with a friend of mine and she she was part of the conference but i had gone to see her and she said uh she saw him and she was like this is tamson this is ira and i was like hey and i kept going and he went up to his hotel room to watch football.

And then the girls that night called him down.

They were like, you really need to, you know, he loves to travel.

He's like really funny.

And I was like, listen, I'm never getting married again.

I don't want a serious relationship again.

I've been through that already.

I'm perfectly happy single.

And he came down.

He was like really charming and nice, but not like cheesy charming, like just genuinely nice.

And then he.

traveled long distance to come back and forth to see me for almost two years from he was living in California now in Santa Monica and I was was in new york anchoring the evening news and he would come back and forth yeah and he would be like hey go do you want to go out this weekend and i'm like yeah how about sunday night and this poor guy would spend the entire weekend in new york and i would give him sunday night i don't know i i thought he was just like back here for something really i was awful like i love that story oh my god oh my god it's awful you're like that i love it i do love it because i think that's a that's really good you don't want to like you don't want to be that available but i wasn't even trying not to be i was just like completely not i was refusing for myself to be any part of that you know so he would just say hang out in New York for the weekend.

Yeah, I guess.

Like, he would get a hotel and that's because he was traveling back and forth for work, but on the weekends, he didn't have to be there.

And so, anyway, so you know, finally, it started to get serious.

And then we got a place together in New York, and now we go back and forth.

So, we're bicoastal.

That's so cute.

Yeah, he's so sweet.

He's very funny.

So, how long did you date before you got married?

Um, let's see.

This has nothing to do with menopause, by the way.

No, but it was during the menopause, prior menopause years.

Exactly.

It'll all count.

Um, it's okay.

So, he says that we only dated for, let me think, we got married in 2021.

And he says it was only like a few years because he didn't count the first years.

Like, that wasn't dating.

That was ridiculous.

But we met in 2017 and we got married in 2021.

So, you know, it was four years.

I love that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

See, like, you're living, you're a perfect example of someone who's living their best life in these years.

Like, you're a great poster child.

Thank you.

Yeah.

He's, he,

you know, he made, he made it very easy because I, I said, I want to walk the earth with him.

Like, he's just so fun.

And, like, he's the first person I want to call, but not in like a cheesy way.

Yeah.

But we just really have a great time together.

So it's nice.

And he's very patient.

Like, I don't, have you been on social media at all today?

Today, no, I haven't.

I've had 55 podcasts.

Oh, I'm sorry.

So there's this AI graphic everyone's making of themselves, like of themselves in AI, like whatever they like to do.

And mine's like menopause person.

So we made one of my husband and we posted it.

Like he's a very serious businessman.

So we posted it, but he's like, fine.

You know, he he goes, I did not approve this, like, jokingly, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's just because he's so straight and serious, like, straight, like really good temperament, though.

Yeah, he's very good.

He's very good, he just tolerates it.

I love that.

He's got two kids, you said.

He does, he has two adult kids who are wonderful.

They're really sweet.

Um, one is 30, and one is 32.

Not like it's my business or anybody else's, but I want to know.

Oh, you know, I mean,

I don't have any secrets, I don't have any secrets.

Uh, yeah, so we have a good time together, and I just, I love them.

And I have a nephew who's gonna be 14 so he loves my little nephew and so it's nice it's it's fun it's not what i expected i didn't you know i thought i was like going to be alone with my chihuahuas the rest of my life that's what i was i was banking on and now look yeah you're living your best life now i'm talking to you about menopause exactly i had no idea and like who would have thought like this whole which is why i love this i love like human the story behind it right like how because we never know where things are going to go we try to like make these plans that like i'm definitely doing this and i'm definitely none of my definitely is you know like that didn't happen totally make a plan God laughs that's basically the story no I think so too and I think I look at you know so many of the women right now that are learning about this I'm really grateful like I'm grateful that they are starting to have resources I'm grateful that the conversation is picking up and that there's help available for them totally so yeah thank you by the way thank you for staying longer i know that i know that this whole thing was a total cluster it was not stop apologizing

stop now because i feel because i feel bad you were sitting out there and i no, I didn't.

I left.

I left and came back.

So that's fine.

We're good.

I'm waiting.

I'm so happy that you were able to stay longer.

No, I'm so happy I did.

And that you came on the show because I really

were a joy.

And your book, I really, and like, there's a bazillion menopause books out right now, but yours is truly exceptional.

And because I love when people compile the best information out there and drill it down in layman's terms for the average.

That's the only way I could remember it.

Well, that's the problem because so so many of these books are very medical and sciencey and from one perspective right so i like that you kind of you kind of took the best of the best and kind of put it together and sandwiched it into a book and i love that there's more awareness on this and it's becoming it's it's becoming less shameful

because of people like you you're having podcasts and talking about it and sharing and i think it's a really big deal i mean i don't think that you know any of us realize how much if one woman listens to it and then repeats it to somebody else or repeats it to somebody else or a guy is listening it's it makes a big difference it really makes a difference it makes a difference and i think it makes a difference when people speak to like to meet you where you are versus 100 right a hundred percent and you do a great job of all of that talking and explaining it thank you the book is called i have it somewhere but it's not around it's okay i didn't bring it either so it's fine okay so it's called how to menopause and uh tamson you're great follow her on instagram and at tamzin fidel right at tams of fidel and what else where else do people find you my nature arm routine that's it okay i'll give that to you too.

At Tamsa Vidal or, you know, how to menopause.

That's it.

That's where we are right now.

That's where we are right now.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Bye.