Episode 354: In memory of Jerry West: A Journey of Resilience, Basketball Excellence, and Leadership Wisdom

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Gresham.

Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor, Therisage.

Their tri-light panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body.

It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without.

I literally bring it with me everywhere I go.

And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations and places in my body where honestly I have pain.

You can use it on a sore back, stomach cramps, shoulder, ankle.

Red light therapy is my go-to.

Plus, it also has amazing anti-aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for.

I personally use Therasage Trilight.

everywhere and all the time.

It's small, it's affordable, it's portable, and it's really effective.

Head over to Therasage.com right now and use code BBLD for 15% off.

This code will work site-wide.

Again, head over to Therasage, T-H-E-R-A-S-A-G-E dot com and use code BBOLD for 15% off any of their products.

So, today's podcast is one for the books, in my opinion, and probably a lot of other people's opinions, because we have Jerry West on,

who really, really does represent

the statement, the man, the myth, the legend, because you really do transcend that.

You are someone who's had success in virtually seems like everything you've done.

And I think what you were saying before we even started rolling was that's not even like you're not, you don't define yourself by basketball.

That's just what people always want to talk about.

So I guess it's a good place to start.

Like, who is Jerry West?

And

what drives you, what drives him, you, to be

so good in virtually everything that you touch?

Well, you know, that's a really interesting question.

And I think it all started back in my childhood.

I think many times you grow up in an environment that's less than desirable.

Things that you would want in a family probably didn't exist in my family.

And I think it changes your perspective on things because at that point in time, I was just trying to survive.

My family is trying to survive.

And I think the negativity you see in life as a child certainly scars you.

You can go two ways.

You can either try to choose a path that's pleasing for you.

More importantly,

to have these

dreams that you don't dare tell anyone, because growing up in a small place, at that point in time, someone will laugh at you.

But that's the only thing I,

when I look back at my life of any success I've had in my life, it was really because I was a dreamer when I was a little boy.

You know, I was a complete loner.

None of the kids growing up in this little small little community liked to do anything I liked.

I loved the outdoors.

I loved to go in the mountains by myself, wondering what I was going to see.

Every time I would go, I would always get up to the top of the mountain.

And it's probably a lesson I've learned for life.

Sometimes you get up to the top of the mountain and you see the very same thing that you saw when you were climbing up the mountain.

And a lot of people think by getting to the top of the mountain,

climbing the topist peak,

that's very rewarding.

Sometimes the view up there is not so good.

And I think people have a real misconception of what's important in people's lives.

And what's been important to me in my life is that, as I say, I might dreams where

something I was able to live.

You know, I picked up a basketball when I was 10, 9, 10 years old, and just out by myself, picked it up and

propelling it up between your legs like when you were a little kid and you couldn't get it up.

There wasn't strong enough.

All the baskets

were 10 feet, but I know this sounds corny.

Very rarely did I play on a court that was anything other than dirt.

And

if it'd be rainy or muddy, for some reason, this allured this game.

This crazy ball that I picked up changed my life forever.

And I was so glad that,

you know I have people and I'll never forget probably one of the cruelest things I think I've ever heard and particularly when I was young I was like 11 years old and my next door neighbor and everyone ran through each one's lawn to get home and I never walked anywhere we I ran we never had a car

never went on a vacation

never have a bicycle until later in my life.

And so

I was like forced to go at an early age, to be honest with you.

And there wasn't anywhere I wouldn't run, up the hills, down the hills.

It was just this enormous energy that I had.

But these people, I'm sitting there, and they were next-door neighbors.

And here I am, not bothering anyone.

And one of the things that came out of their mouth was, oh my God, what is Jerry ever going to do in his life that's worthwhile?

I'm 10 years old, okay?

And when I heard that,

it hurt, okay?

It hurt because I had to go home.

I never knew what I was going to face at home.

I grew up in an abusive household, as my other siblings did.

And I think that

I learned a lot of lessons that day.

Never, never give up, okay?

Never.

And I was determined that somewhere along the way, something positive is going to happen in my life.

And

all of a sudden, I picked up basketball, as I mentioned before.

And I had always,

I was a dreamer, I could put myself in situations, had a very vivid imagination.

And the thing that

was

probably

something that I've taken with me forever is that

for some reason, when people say no,

I used to say yes, and it has served me well.

But from then on,

when I was picking up a basketball, I was a coach.

I was the announcer first and foremost, but most importantly, I was the official.

Wow.

And so

in my life,

to feel good before I went home, I could miss 10 straight shots, and I'd make the last one.

I'd find a way to put a second back on the clock.

When I went home, you know, I'd conquered the world.

And going to my house, I never knew what I was going to face.

But I'm sure there's a lot of kids out there that experience the same thing when you're by yourself.

Basketball, the rudiments of basketball can be learned by yourself.

And this was before, way before,

we had all these instructional videos and going to camps, which I could have never gone to one because I couldn't afford to go.

But it was a pretty remarkable time in my life.

And

I did all these things that were feel-good thing.

I used to love to fish.

Some people, fishing would be slow, hot summer day,

humid.

You'd step there and be roasting.

Right.

But I would always stay out there until I caught something.

And it made any difference when I started.

I wasn't going to quit.

And it sounds like you're a very personal, you're very person, you persevered and you had a mental toughness and a discipline to always just kind of keep on going no matter what.

Even as a young person,

that was pretty much the through line in your personality.

There's no question.

The other thing, you know, to earn money, because

this was a sparse household in terms of earning, in terms of money being around, I used to do all the jobs that no one wanted to do.

And I hear people today, so, well, it was minimum wage.

I don't know what I was making for doing these things, but I cut everyone's lawn.

I'd dig anyone's ditch.

It was always going to be perfect.

So consequently, anytime that a neighbor had something to do, they'd ask me to do it because they know I'd do it.

And I'd get paid sometimes a dollar and I'm going, oh my gosh, it's all the money in the world.

And I used to take that money and there was a rug in our house, a little tiny place we lived in.

And I would take this money and put it under the rug.

Wow.

And sometimes, you know, I'd forget about.

And

my mother would be taking a sweeper and going around.

And here she was, she did this lump in the thing.

And here might be $10 or $15 there that I had earned.

And

that's how I

bought a basketball.

That's how I bought my fishing stuff.

And then I started to get into hunting.

And

there wasn't much around then to

hunt.

But

it was just, it was a unique childhood that unfortunately I had to share with myself.

No one knew what was going on behind

this crazy thought processes I had in my hand at a young age.

But do you feel that because you had a difficult childhood childhood and you had abuse and all that stuff, that kind of also propelled you to want to succeed?

Like it gave you that

drive to kind of get out of there, that fear of failure that you'd still stay there if you didn't make it somewhere.

So did that help you kind of push or were you just?

Oh, yes.

But along the way, there's so many obstacles.

I was really little.

I was tiny.

And real,

if a wind blew, it blew me away.

I was so skinny.

But I think the thing that was really interesting to me, and maybe the first time I'd ever felt incredible rejection for trying to be an athlete,

I was always really fast.

No one could catch me.

And

so that was a strength.

I could run and jump even in a little age.

But I remember the first time I tried out for the basketball team, I was in the seventh grade, and I was so tiny and so

almost intimidated by anyone who was in command.

I was brought up, and still very much today, am a yes, sir, no, sir, thank you, please person.

And it wasn't until I got to be in the ninth grade that I had a chance to play on my junior high school team.

And I was looking the other day, I don't know why, I saw this old picture of me in this uniform, and I said to myself, oh my God, what happened here?

Okay.

All these skinny little kids look like waifs

trying to

do something that made you feel good.

And even then, I had no clue that I would ever be good enough.

I was just

somebody who loved to compete and play.

So my life changed that summer, my summer of my

ninth and going into high school, tenth grade, I grew about six inches inches one summer.

Oh my god, so it was like, but I didn't gain any weight.

I looked like, I looked like Ichabod Crane.

I was so skinny.

And

but, you know, I'd gotten to the point where I grew so fast.

We had this set of stairs in this little house we lived in.

I would run up them and fall down, run down them and fall down.

So it was pretty

It was pretty funny to, all of a sudden I grew and I was happy about it, but not to be able to,

you know, you had no balance, you had nothing.

It was like everything happened overnight.

But

I think one of the interesting things was that all of a sudden, because I got taller, you know,

I felt like I belonged in the real world.

And

then when I got to high school, that year I got to high school, I was like 6'3,

148 pounds.

And I played on the junior varsity team.

And

we played all the same schools that our high school teams played.

And obviously, I wasn't good enough then to play on the varsity team.

But something happened.

I started playing real well in these games, these JV games, and the coach decided to promote me up to the varsity.

And

the two coaches, the head coach and the assistant coach, They were both football coaches.

And so

they bring me up there.

And the first game I played in, I scored 14 points in the last quarter of a high school game against one of our rivals.

We won the game.

And I wanted to play one more game that was another rivalry of ours, Charleston High School, okay?

The big Charleston High School in the state capital.

And I go down there and I broke the navicular, not the navicular bone, but the metatarsal bone.

And so they put me in a cast.

And so

whatever left of my varsity career was done.

And the doctor, it was a walking cast, and the doctor says, well, you know, what should you do?

And I said, well, he said, he said, he knew pretty much you can't break these things, okay?

Well, I broke seven of them.

Oh, my gosh.

Oh, my God.

And the funny part of it was

I would still play basketball with this

with this cast on.

And there was really some funny things.

Oh, my gosh.

You you played on baskets that were

not stationary.

And I remember one day I was playing and some guy, I was shooting a shot.

And

I remember the character Pegleg Bates, okay, long ago.

He's the dancer.

And I got hit on this thing and it knocks me out in the hall.

And the school principal was there.

I almost hit him when I went out the door.

And that was kind of

one of the funny things that can happen with that.

But it fortunately healed without

any other problems.

And then my junior year, again, I'd just gotten better.

And

I'd learned to shoot myself and always was a pretty good shooter.

But I got to the point where I was much more confident and

still had not lost my ability to run and jump.

And so by the time I got to be a senior in high school,

oh, by the way, in a junior in high school, I'd averaged about 28 points a game.

I had not won college offer in playing in the

best competition in the state.

And then by the time I was a senior,

we won the state championship and played at West Virginia University, where, of course, we recruited two and went to school.

I wanted to go to my state university.

I'll never forget those days in the state tournament.

I said all the state scoring records, all the rebounding records.

And I fouled out of both games with a lot of time in one game.

And I often wondered, I think I scored 40 points and had about 20 rebounds.

And again, this is years ago,

but I didn't play hard the whole last quarter.

I'd fouled out, but we'd had a big lead and we won the state championship, which wasn't expected.

And all of a sudden, These offers started coming in.

There's some incredible stories about the recruiting process.

And frankly, I couldn't take it anymore.

I went home one day and there were four coaches from four big universities sitting in this little

chairs outside of my house on a little tiny porch.

My mother was over there drinking coffee and hot and humid.

And she said to all four of these guys, and again, I was really quiet and shy.

She said to all these four guys, she said, you know, I don't really care where he goes, but I want him to go to West Virginia.

So obviously, she was swayed by that, but

it was probably the best choice I could have made with all the crazy offers I got.

And obviously, at that point in time, people were pretty loose in their recruiting.

Right.

What was it like back then?

Like, what kind of offers would you be getting back then versus how it is now?

There must be a huge discrepancy.

Well, for me then, it was,

I don't really want to get into it because it doesn't make any difference, but my father didn't make a lot of money, but

I could have gotten paid about three times what he got paid for going to school by a number of schools.

And it's something I've always been reticent to talk about because, you know, it really wasn't, there wasn't a lot of governance on athletes going to school, but it was flattering to me that

I didn't get one thing for going to West Virginia University, but it's the best decision I made in my life.

Wow.

And

why do you say that?

Do you think that was the moment

that changed a trajectory in your life beyond when you were at 10 years old and when someone said to you, what are you ever going to make of yourself?

Do you think this was another one of those moments?

You know, I'm pretty loyal, okay, and always have been.

And

it was just...

I had gone up there one time when I was a kid with my brother-in-law at that point in time.

He since deceased, obviously.

And they took me to a game up there, and I just, the fun and excitement in this little gym that was about 6,400 people, jam-packed, and I couldn't sleep after the game.

And I said, that's pretty exciting.

But I wasn't thinking about playing at West Virginia University at 12 years of age.

But it's the best decision I've ever made.

I love the state of West Virginia.

I love

how people are back there.

It really

is probably the foundation of who I am today.

I'll never forget where I came from.

The state is important to me.

The university is particularly important to me.

And it's frankly been a charity of my choice.

And

I will never shirk that responsibility because, again, the foundation of my life, what I learned there, the people,

they don't have a lot.

And particularly today as the coal industry has faded out and not as viable, it's a state that needs a reawakening.

They have a workforce there, hard-working people, and the thing they know is hard work.

Right.

And it's not there anymore.

So

I have a home in West Virginia.

I usually spend three months there.

And this year I can't do it because I have a son that's going to get married on August the 10th.

Congratulations.

I saw that.

Congratulations.

He's a nice young man, and she's a nice young lady.

So I'm hopeful that this will be a

he's engaged.

Your son, he works with the Golden State Warriors, correct?

And he's marrying

Johnny.

Johnny West, and he's marrying Michelle We,

professional golfer.

And

it looks like a pretty impressive match.

You can just feel the closeness they have.

And

somebody always says soulmates.

I've had a couple people in my life

that have been my soulmates.

And

you just, there's something special about those people that you don't

ever forget.

It doesn't happen very often, but

100%.

So

I was going to ask you a question a little bit earlier about your opinion.

Do you believe that raw talent or mindset is more important when becoming great at anything.

Just basketball, I know you seem to have a very strong discipline and competitive nature, but how much of that was also talent?

Or did you was it more the mindset of your drive and your wanting to be the best?

And

well, I would say that there's a couple of things.

Some people are born differently.

Their minds are organized differently, and particularly athletes.

And the one thing that if I was going to ever pat myself on the back, that I've always been competitive, no matter what it has been,

no losing is not in my vocabulary.

And I've learned how to lose, but I still don't like it.

And I think just raised how I was raised, it taught me the significance of

how important it was to compete at a high level.

You know, a lot of players at that point in time, I hardly ever went out of my room when I played.

It was all basketball.

And

I think the thing that mattered most was after games, I was really hard on myself.

And when I got to the point in my career when I felt I could affect the outcome of games, and there was a number of years I could affect the outcome of the game, if we lost,

I would go back to my room and I would kill myself in criticism.

Not a healthy thing to do.

I know that.

And

it's a curse to live with, but that's how I was raised.

I'm not raised, but that's how my mindset was.

And getting to a

and getting to a different level, I thought that was one thing that was very important.

But once you get to where you physically mature, and when I came into the NBA, I weighed 172 pounds,

172 pounds.

And I was 6'4 and a half.

Everyone used to say I was 6'2.5.

And I had 40-inch sleeve length, so that makes you a lot bigger.

And

it's just something that as I competed against certain players, I started to get to the point where, you know, they didn't concern me.

And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way.

No, I know what you mean.

I just felt that I had an edge, and not only physically, but competitively.

Yeah, mentally, mentally.

Well, absolutely.

And my mind, as I say, my mind, I don't forget what players do.

I can go back over the years and talk about players and their strengths and weaknesses.

And my mind was like an encyclopedia.

So, you know, even for the games, and you don't have the same kind of preparation you do.

The games were, you know, you might play three and sometimes four nights in a row in different cities.

That's hard to do.

It's hard on your body.

But as you go along and the more experience you have, you don't have to worry about what someone will tell you about what this player is going to do.

You have it in your mind.

And I think that's one of the things that when I look at my life, while it may have been simpler for me to play the game,

I've always said that one thing that determines players who stand out in every era would be the people who see the game in slow motion.

If you're going fast all the time, it's too fast.

That allows these people that truly are above the others, regardless of what people...

you know, we throw the term superstar around so loosely today that it does, it doesn't, I don't think it's so.

There might be four or five in any given time.

Who would you say the top five superstars are, like true superstars?

You know, I would never go there because I would slight some people along the way.

They're just players I've had respect for in all generations, you know, starting from 60s to 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000, 2010, 2020

coming.

Every period you see a difference in the players.

And we're starting to see really very gifted players at an early age.

They have been so schooled in terms of AU camps, camps that are skill camps.

And the ones who identify themselves obviously are going to get the most attention.

And sometimes when I see the ones who get the most attention, you watch them go to college, and

a lot of them hit that wall.

They can't get beyond that wall.

And that's why they get into the NBA, as great as they were

going up, and all the accolades they received growing up,

they hit that wall and they can't break through it.

Is there one quality that you look for when you, because you have such a great eye, obviously, for talent?

They'd say probably the best ever of all time.

It's obviously a gut instinct that you feel it, but is there something that you're specifically looking for?

Is it

well?

People always talk about basketball IQ.

Unfortunately, we have, I don't say unfortunately, a part of the game today is the fact that we have so many analytical people involved in the league.

And many times they sway people into thinking that or presenting facts that this guy is truly better than someone else.

I don't, I'm not a big fan of analytics, and let me tell you why.

I think they're great teaching tools.

I think they're great for coaches

as this guy likes to go left 90% of the time.

If a guy is good enough and he's really a star, he might go left 90% of the time.

You're still not going to stop him.

He's going to find a way to get over there.

They are so versatile that they're going to get to the other side too.

But I think the one thing you can't look at, you can't look at a heart, you can't look at a mind.

I think there's a lot of mistakes made

and there have been for years

in people overestimating and drafting for need.

To me, it's about skill and a person's desire to compete and excel.

Right.

So it's about their mindset, about their competitive,

their mental toughness again, and how competitive they are, how driven they are to be to be the best, I guess, right?

Would you say you were more competitive in your

while you're playing basketball or as an executive now?

Well, certainly

as a player,

it's a different kind of competitiveness.

You know, you're not only playing for your team, you're playing for the city and you're playing for the fans.

So I don't know how players think today, but that was, I felt that was a great sense of responsibility to try to win for your fans.

You know, you see the free agency today, as I say, I've always been a pretty loyal person in my life.

Good quality.

I would have loved to have had an opportunity to be a free agent to see if I could be tempted to go somewhere else.

And someone would not be able to, you know, try to

influence my thinking if I were going to be a free agent by a presentation showing me the city you live in, the glamour,

all the other opportunities, it was strictly about basketball to me, strictly.

And today, because of the enormous amount of money, the agents

and the game, the way it's played today, have been the most significant change in basketball that I have seen in all my, what,

50-some years in this game.

The agents, they dictate where players go.

I feel sorry from some of the small market team,

but I don't know how you level the playing field.

I really don't.

But it's okay for people to seek,

and I'm not critical of players at all.

If you want to go somewhere else, you go.

And there's one time in my career, I definitely did not want to play for the Lakers because an owner told me a lie.

Really?

Oh, yes.

Oh, yes.

Well, it doesn't matter what happens.

Just don't lie to me.

Say yes or no.

That's the most important thing.

Right.

Oh, wow.

And

I wanted to leave so badly, but yet I didn't have the opportunity.

But I would have left.

It might have been a mistake, but I would have left.

A city I love playing for,

the fans,

watching the game grow.

being involved, only team in the West Coast.

And look at the first team, the Lakers today.

Look at what's happened to this franchise since they've been in the city.

The first team here,

I'll never forget when I got here.

Hell, no one even knew what basketball was then.

It was about baseball and football.

That's true.

I'll never forget the first two games we played here in the old sports arena.

There was a counter over the thing.

And so first night there, I think it was like 4,820.

The next night, it was like 4,200.

And to get there and play, and I was used to playing in Sal Al Crowds everywhere.

I went to college.

Right, right.

And the atmosphere.

We happened to be playing the New York Knicks back-to-back name.

And, you know,

certainly we wanted to win, but I almost felt that there were 4,800 transplanted New Yorkers there rooting for the Knicks.

Right, right, right.

And

to see the way the franchise has grown and to see what's happened to the Lakers here, that was obviously the most special years of my life.

To be able to play there, be able to coach there for three years and have an opportunity to work with an incredible owner and Jerry Buss was really pretty special.

You know, he believed in me, he trusted in me.

And we had such a different relationship

for

someone who's working for someone.

And

I learned a lot from him.

He was a good guy.

He was a man of the people.

And so my years there were filled with a lot of fun and excitement.

Saw an awful lot of winning.

Right.

And I saw this city become a Laker city, not a Dodgers city, not a Ram city.

They eventually left town.

And

at one time I can remember the dominant, we were on the last page of three newspapers in town.

And now all of a sudden we have one daily newspaper, the Los Angeles Times, and other

newspapers in smaller areas that don't have the same circulation they used to have.

And

all of a sudden, I can remember the Herald Examiner, and you saw the Lakers creeping up from the last phase to the second phase, and all of a sudden, the most dominant team in the town.

And that was a great thing for me to see and witness.

I can imagine.

That's kind of like when I'm like I was telling you, I'm Canadian, and my first job was with the Raptors, and it was the same thing because it was a first year, it was an expansion team.

And Toronto's also about hockey and baseball, and it was the same thing and slowly but surely you know the Raptors well now I mean I was gonna even I didn't want to even start asking you of course about the obvious current affair of you know the coup that you were able to accomplish with

well you know of course

what's going on with the Clippers because I figured it's all over the place anyway and but but

That was quite an amazing thing that you accomplished.

Well, it wasn't me and it's never one person.

It's never one person, but you you were still part of it.

You know, to be part of it was really fun.

I work from incredible people now.

I mean, really incredible.

As good as any front office I've ever seen in this league.

An impeccable owner in Steve Balmer.

And, you know, I don't know if I'll get fined for this, but I'm going to say it anyway.

If I were a young player and I was ever

able to get involved with Steve Bommer at this point in time,

I'd have to listen to him.

He's a pretty amazing man for the enormous success he's had and everyone always talks about his wealth um

he's

he's like jerry buss

really he's like jerry bus

he's a people person jerry was more conservative but this one is more enthusiastic but if you're with him and his wife

It's just amazing

how grounded they are.

It really is pretty grounded.

I love hearing that because exactly what you said, from what my perception is, he's Steve Bomber.

He's known to being one of the wealthiest men in the country.

And then when you say he's also down to earth and seems very normal,

that's a good big compliment to give somebody.

Well,

he's great.

He really is.

I don't like to go overboard on people because I've said it a number of times about him, but

his philanthropy is beyond belief.

Really?

And he keeps it quiet.

And he and his wife together,

I don't even know what they do in terms of giving,

but he's just one of those people.

He's like your next-door neighbor.

Right.

You never know.

I don't know if we get to know our next door neighbors anymore.

You're probably right.

Not very often.

That's very true.

But it's nice to know because I feel like that actually means it's very authentic and genuine.

He's not doing it for a bragged to brag or to look at me, but it's more coming from the right place, which is his heart.

And like I said, when you have that kind of wealth and that kind of success, you know, you tend to not really know the person.

So to hear that that

he's so kind and authentic and genuine and generous, I think, Victor Boyle.

Well, as I say, he would be,

if you were in a meeting with him and around him to see how he acts with people, how he treats people,

He's pretty amazing.

And

as I say, I'm fortunate enough to be now here with him.

This is my third year.

Obviously, I'm getting to the end of my time as involved in this sport.

I've been around a lot.

But as I say,

I think your final resting place sometimes, I've been

three other teams in Memphis with the late Mike Heisley, who was an incredible guy himself, very philanthropic himself.

And with the Warriors, a unique ownership group up there to see the success they've had

and the friends I've made up here.

And to be involved with this group, I am today, the Clippers.

The front office, they have, as I mentioned before, oh my goodness, they've hired the best of the best.

It doesn't make any difference.

Steve

will leave no stone unturned in order to have the best of the best, care of the players, treatment of the players is paramount in his mind.

And when he gets this arena built, it will be the best arena in town.

Yeah, it sounds like it.

It will be the best arena in the league.

He is, as I say, he's a man of vision.

And the thing that I love about him is the fact he is competitive.

Right.

I mean, really competitive.

Where other people,

you know, does he take an active part?

Very much so.

Does he tell us who to draft?

No.

But there's such interaction.

We have meetings over there.

I don't know what team in the league would do this.

We have meetings over there that are all the basketball people.

A lot of them are former coaches or scouts and people who contribute.

We might have 20 people, 25 people in a room discussing players,

discussing, you know, how can we get to this point in time?

Would we be able to move here to get this player?

The openness of this organization is amazing.

It's It's not a closed shop.

And when you get in environments like that, those are really healthy, really healthy.

And again, I don't want to say that there's other organizations not like that because they're more closed.

You know, everyone's afraid of wheat, leaks.

Well, the leaks many times come from the same people who want to close shop.

I've often, you know, you look at a very popular figure in this league who reports stuff, Adrian Wojanowski.

He has stories come out

before they're even out there.

And how does he get it?

He maintains a great relationship with agents.

He mains a great relationship with GMs.

And

so if you're going to tell people the press those things,

why exclude people in the front office?

That's absolutely true.

Why exclude them?

But I have fun with our guys.

It's not ego-driven.

It's, oh my gosh, the kidding and ribbing that I get, which I love.

I don't like anyone to be benevolent to me, period.

I don't want them to be.

It's uncomfortable for me.

And I don't want anyone to think I'm any better than anyone.

I'm not.

I want to be around people that want to have fun and don't take themselves too seriously, but take what they do seriously.

Yeah, that's actually a great, that's also a great life lesson, as well, right?

Like everything you're saying, I think it doesn't just apply to basketball, it applies to everything in life and the traits, the qualities.

It doesn't matter

what industry you're in.

But one thing I found interesting: I read that you're very superstitious.

And since this podcast is all about people's habits and rituals to be super successful,

what are your superstitions?

What were they back then?

Are they the same?

Did they

evolve?

I'll give you one.

It's really stupid.

Okay.

Before a game, I used to chew

two sticks of gum, okay?

But I'd tear them in half, and I'd put two halves over here, and I'd have one whole thing.

It was like a

stress reliever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so I would come in at halftime.

I'd do the same thing, get a fresh one, put them up there.

I always rent out third.

Always.

I would kill to get out, run out third.

Really?

So, where you say you put them over there, where are you putting them?

Are they like you're sticking them somewhere?

No, they put them up in the top.

We had a little shelf.

Oh, there was a shelf.

Okay, so.

At the end of the year, at the end of the year, there was a big pile of half-sticks of gum up there.

Really?

That's a cute one.

Can you give us one more?

I'm sorry?

Give me one more superstition?

Yeah.

I used to drive the same way to the game every day.

And here in Los Angeles, because of the traffic,

there'd be a 50-car wreck.

I wouldn't get off.

I wouldn't get off.

You would just stay on that wreck.

I was going to stay there.

I don't say it's a superstition, but my eating habits were really different.

When I first started, everyone used to have like a steak and a salad, right?

Right.

As I went on, I couldn't eat anything.

I would physically get sick.

And so I used to eat at like one o'clock.

Right.

And I'd have the same thing every day.

I'd have a turkey sandwich, right?

And I would have water

and a half a

half a scoop of vanilla ice cream.

That was my pre-game meal.

Really?

Not a full scoop, always a half a scoop.

That was part of the super scoop.

It had to be done now.

Again, I could eat anything then and never gain weight.

But,

and obviously, as you get older,

for some reason, you don't want to eat as much.

And with me,

that was one of the things I was, if I didn't do the same thing, I took a nap every afternoon.

I would tape around the curtains if there's a peak of light coming through.

I would carry tape with me on the road from the trainer so I could tape my windows up so I could take a nap.

And

one time I will never forget one of the funniest things that ever happened.

We had a Friday night game in Los Angeles.

And we had a first game of a double header in New York the next night.

That's when they used to have double headers.

Right, double headers, yeah.

So we flew there.

We get there.

By the time we got to the hotel, the traffic in New York was like maybe a quarter to seven.

And I get in the hotel room.

I tape my windows up.

I was really tired because I couldn't sleep after games anyway.

Never slept on a plane.

So I'd been up all night.

Finally went to sleep.

And all of a sudden, I hear all this barking, barking, barking, barking.

So I called down to the manager, and I says, you know, I said, there's a dog barking next door.

And I was, again, always very polite.

And I said, is there any way that someone could just go check?

And this gentleman said to me, he said, well, I'm sorry, we're having the West Minster Dog Show, and they're all staying here at the hotel.

Oh, my God.

It wasn't fun.

I can imagine.

That would probably not be very fun at all.

But the worst part, we played the next day in Boston, an afternoon game in Boston.

Right.

Oh, gosh.

Anyway, it wasn't funny.

It wasn't fun traveling that way.

That was not at all.

Wow.

So then,

what are some superstitions, or how about this?

What are some habits that you do now?

Are they like you still have similar ones?

You still have a, well, I guess you're not, well, you're not playing, so you can have that turkey sandwich or the, or the sticky.

Well, no, I have very similar habits, okay?

I do.

To me, when I go to a game now,

I look at it from a different perspective.

Okay.

I try to be a scout,

particularly with younger players.

Are they getting better?

Does our coach need another player?

I think one of the things that was important to me when I was involved in making decisions for a team,

I have a voice today, and I do really express my opinions.

They're important to me if I'm going to be working for someone.

And one of the things that I've always felt that when you go to the game, you watch these young kids, and some of them coming out so young today they lose their confidence very quickly but more importantly you know sometimes you see mistakes they make over and over and you point them out to our

you know I do to our

to Lawrence Frank who's our

president and GM

I point them out to him and so to me to get to the point where you're

communicating things that you see that maybe will help this kid get better, so you're going to need someone to work with him.

You need to get better at this.

You need to get better at this.

You need to be more alert here.

A stupid thing like the sideline.

How many guys at times do you see guys step out of bounds?

Normally, it's the same person all the time.

So it's about footwork.

Wow.

Even with veterans.

Even with veterans, okay.

And on these corner threes, there's not a lot of room down there.

So your footwork has to be impeccable.

Another thing, you know, watching the ball.

You know, you have to be alert.

Your head has to be on a swivel.

But I think the thing that I most enjoyed when I was being involved with the team was going to coaches and say, is there a particular player you'd like to have?

Maybe we could try to acquire him for you.

And you'd be surprised how many times that

in communicating with other people, and obviously the general managers were the ones you communicated with then.

But now you have agents calling.

I think you should call him about this player.

I just, you can't do that.

That's not the way this league works.

You should communicate with the executives who are running these teams.

But unfortunately,

the landscape has really changed.

Right.

It sounds like it.

But it seems like you still keep it old school.

Like you still are doing it the way it used to be done more, and it's succeeding.

You're succeeding.

Well, the kids have so many different people training them.

My goodness, they have their own trainers.

They come to training camp with their own trainers.

And they seem to have confidence in them.

But you add a lot more people.

And sometimes when you add a lot more people, you have people in the staff.

Maybe that's their specialty.

And do they feel slighted?

I don't know that answer to that question, but I think with the players today, the power that the players have today, and I think, you know,

who was it that said this is a talent-driven league?

Unfortunately,

the talent in all leagues is what make leagues go.

Right, right, right.

You know, what's this person saying when he says that?

I think it was Mark Cuban.

Is that what he said?

But

it's always a talent-driven league.

And the players today are, you know, my goodness, they're getting more bouncy.

They have a lot more craftiness to their game.

They have some zigzag in it, which makes them better.

This game...

is the second largest game in the world today behind soccer.

Yeah, behind soccer, right?

And I do not think it's going to stop growing.

I think it's going to become...

They're playing basketball in India.

Whoever thoughts that.

At one time, when the Yao Ming was playing in his league, there were seven,

I think it was a hundred young Chinese kids that were seven feet tall or more who were playing basketball.

What was the impetus for that?

Right.

Yao Ming.

Right, exactly.

Yao Ming.

They play basketball in the Philippines.

They love basketball and they have professional leagues.

Australia is producing some good players.

And certainly Europe is a fertile place for many NBA players today.

So it's becoming a worldwide game.

The NBA has done a great job in Africa because, you know, we need, if you look at the players today, long-rangey players,

they come, there's so many big kids in that Ukraine area over there.

I mean, they're huge.

And

in Africa today, these kids are really tall.

But

the NBA has gotten so involved, and some of the African players who played very successfully in this league have gone about their way to try to contribute back to their countries.

That's a good thing.

It's a great thing.

Yeah, it's a great thing.

I mean,

that's...

Opportunity in life is the most important.

And it's not always about athletics, okay?

Right.

People need...

People, we have so many displaced kids today.

And they might have completely different interests.

And it's great for me to see people get involved who are influential, who can provide resources for these kids to have a chance to live their dreams, very much like myself and tons of NBA players, tons of other athletes in all sports.

Absolutely.

It's really important to pay it forward and give it back to your community to give other people the opportunity.

Because a lot of it is opportunity.

A lot of people can be very talented and have all the other

characteristics, but if they're not given that opportunity,

it's kind of goes unnoticed.

Well, as I say,

we have so much money in a lot of few hands.

If those people would

be a little bit more disciplined, I think, in where they judicially give their money,

I'd like to see them,

again, I'm not preaching to people, but I'd like to see these people who have enormous wealth.

get involved in youth today in this country.

And participate, right?

Absolutely.

It's probably the best feeling in the world to do something, give something to young kids.

They never forget it.

They never forget it.

Absolutely.

And that's what makes the world go around, right?

If you're given that opportunity and have the ability, I always think it's if you have the ability to help somebody, why wouldn't you help somebody?

Well, you should.

Right.

Absolutely.

Life is about getting.

100%.

And you get when you give, right?

That's what the other is saying.

So what's the day in the life now?

So, of course, we know what the clippers and what you do, but what time do you wake up in the morning?

Like, what's your habit?

Do you work out?

Do you exercise?

You must.

You probably don't run like Forrest Gump anymore, but maybe close.

You know,

I try to work out

when I have the time.

But, you know, being here today

cuts one day out.

So, I'm going to

extract a pound of flesh, cut one of your fingers off.

But, no, I try to do that.

And

when I'm traveling, and sometimes it's not personal, it's not for me,

you find it's difficult to keep doing those things.

And I have my own gym at home.

I stretch.

I lift weights.

I get on the treadmill.

When I'm in town a lot, I have a young lady who comes and stretches me.

I try to be disciplined in what I eat.

I'm not much of a dissipator.

I used to like I like wine very much, but I've even

cut way back on that.

But the thing that probably I love to do most is read.

I've learned so much from reading about leaders and about giving,

stories of people.

People should go back and look at the days in the South when we had slavery.

People should study some of the leaders back there.

It's pretty remarkable

what these people have done for a cause.

And the players, frankly, that I most admired when I was playing are the ones that would take a stand.

And today's players have an incredible platform.

Right.

Oh, with social media and everything else now.

Incredible platform.

And I wish there were more that would, because of the enormity of their popularity and their wealth today.

That's the best feel-good.

Forget all their careers, okay?

If you're good at something, you don't have to tell anyone you're good.

Right.

You don't have to tell anyone.

But the thing that will, you know,

their image is a player, their record will live forever.

But

the greatest impact in the world they can make are helping others.

Absolutely.

Is there one book that you recommend to people to read that you would?

Oh my gosh.

There's so many.

I read probably three books a week.

Wow.

Okay.

What are you reading right now?

What are the three books that you're reading?

I just got through reading a book on Malcolm X.

It was fascinating.

I just got through reading a book on George Washington

during the war in the 1979, 59

plot to kill him by his own soldiers.

I just got through watching a documentary on Martin Luther King.

It was pretty stirring.

I read things that

sometimes when I travel, I might read a mystery book, but I try to read things

that are meaningful to me, leaders, why they were great leaders.

And some of them have commonalities,

and they're different.

And, you know, people,

we see

players, okay, that are out there jumping around.

Oh, look at this leadership ability.

Trust me, there's many more quiet ones that

are better leaders and tougher-minded than those guys that are constantly calling attention to themselves.

Absolutely.

I actually agree with what you say.

If you're good, people will notice.

You don't have to tell everyone.

Yes.

Yeah.

But that's not really the society we live in, right?

Where people feel that they...

Well, as I say, society is changing all the time.

It's just changing all the time.

But I think there's lessons to be learned regardless of what area you have grown up your life.

Listen, as I told you before, I've seen time where there's

no phones in the house, no TV in the house, no air conditioning.

And I see all the amenities that people have today.

With all the smart people in the world, I wonder if artificial intelligence is not going to run this world.

And it's

a scary thought.

Absolutely.

And that's the trajectory.

That's what's happening.

That's the wave of what's going on.

It gets to be that way more and more.

Why would Albert Einstein say years ago he's concerned about artificial intelligence?

Years ago.

Right.

Pretty amazing.

Isn't that kind of, it's kind of scary?

I mean,

why are we doing that?

Okay,

we got about five more minutes.

Okay,

because I want to be respectful of your time.

Okay, so what I was going to do: Albert Einstein, yes.

Oh, yeah, I also saw that you're a big fan of Malcolm Gladwell.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

I like him too.

Another fellow Canadian, by the way.

Oh, I know that.

He's different.

He's very different.

The blink,

the one book, Blink, in particular, was really good because I'm kind of a blink person.

It seems like to me I can make quick decisions.

Are they always right?

No, but they are more nearly right because I trust my own personal judgment.

But again, the more you read, the more you study people, the more you

experiences an exposure you've had to people of

shapes, all kinds, all nationalities.

Right.

You can learn from a lot of people.

And the one thing that I know is that

I have learned more

from people who

have been

are just the average person.

And I've learned from people who are supposed to be leaders.

And

some people

are leaders by definition only.

Absolutely true.

What would you say then, considering that you're considered to be a leader and an icon, what would you say your best and most proud accomplishment is of everything?

It doesn't have to be professional, it could be anything.

I think the balance I have in my life with myself,

because if you're not careful, you'll get overwhelmed with.

I went as a player, rarely did I get criticized.

It was hard to criticize me

because I played the game at a level

during my period of time that was

really high.

You know, I was

a great late game player.

But

I'm really not sure.

I think the one thing is that I'm pretty balanced.

I don't like publicity at all.

A lot of people would say that's not true.

I get embarrassed by it.

And it gets to the point sometimes, you just,

all the praise you get for certain things,

other people have contributed more to me than a lot of things

that I've been involved with.

And yet, I end up

getting the credit.

I have written letters of apology to people I've written, work for

for

the fact that I get so much credit and they don't get enough.

Wow.

That's very unusual to feel that.

I mean, where do you think that comes from, though?

Do you think that's from your childhood feeling?

That's because I'm honest.

People don't want you to be honest.

That's true.

There's a lot of times I'd really like to be.

I'd always thought I'd like to write the final chapter in my life, okay?

Wouldn't do it because I'm too honest to write things that I see that I just wish people would do a little more differently.

Respect the people that you work with, okay?

Respect them.

There's some people that I don't care for,

but I don't hate them, period.

I would never, I don't hate people, period.

The way they treat people, the disrespect sometimes you see,

people who

work in this league, everyone wants to win.

I hope everyone wins.

I hope everyone wins.

But this is so hard to win in this league.

Getting more difficult because of the rules,

the way the game has changed, the way it's officiated.

It is just

a cycle sometimes that we go through.

But I just, I love people.

I really do.

And I wish I were enormously wealthy because I would give it all away, every penny.

Well, I think that you should be writing a book called Life Lessons

by Jerry West, because I think, like we said,

what you took from basketball can be,

you can use that and transcend any

industry personally or and professionally.

And I think what I got from this is that you are

really good at like picking up on, like, emote, you're very good with emotional intelligence, picking up on nuance of how to deal with people, and you're very empathetic.

And I think that's what probably, from what I got, this is my opinion, that's probably what makes you so good in what you do.

Well, again, you know, I say

praise that you get,

I had someone to send me a seal

with a ball on its nose, okay?

And

I had really been

getting a lot of criticism for a couple of things.

One trade in particular

that people were

fanned or upset,

writers, and they felt like it was, I had a vindictive mode toward this person.

I coached him and had great respect for him.

But

anyway, to make a long story short, this person sent me this seal, this seal with the ball on its nose.

I still have it on my bathroom counter.

You too.

They said, life is about balance.

I started thinking, life is about balance.

And I said to myself, oh my gosh, all the incredible things that have been said about me, something way too praiseworthy.

And now now

I'm getting this

uncomfortable

version

that

really was,

I felt bad about trading that person.

We traded him.

I didn't trade him.

We traded him.

And

that's when I realized, I said, oh my gosh, you know, life is really about balance.

If people say great things about you all the time, it's not reality.

Right, right.

It's not.

And particularly people in the press or people who have a social venue,

it's not always true.

Well, people always, what happens then, people tend to believe their own hype, right?

Because the more people praise you,

you get like an unrealistic sense of self, right?

That's what happens.

So do you not, so you do not believe, not...

Not that you do not believe the hype, but you try to stay grounded.

Is there something that you do even as a ritual to kind of keep you stay humble and grounded, besides

the seal that you look at every day?

I guess that could be what it is.

It reminds you every day to stay balanced.

Well, I remind me every day.

I'm just like everyone else.

I

had a life that was a fairy tale life in terms of my basketball life.

As I say, those days are coming to an end.

And

I will look back and say, thank God I've met some incredible people in my life.

And I will also look back and I will say, there's some people in my life that

I was deceived by.

But on balance, everything has been like, oh my gosh, how did someone come from a place of 500

and

have met the people in my life, have experienced the things that I have in my life?

There's very few that can say that.

And no one gave me anything along the way.

I earned everything

that

I've received in my life.

Right.

Hard work.

Hard work ought you where you are.

Hard work and the skill.

And yeah.

And the combination, the combination of both, right?

If you have skill and you don't have hard work, you're not going to do anything.

Okay.

Right, exactly.

You're going to tease everybody.

Exactly.

So I guess basically, I don't want to keep you any longer than I have to.

So what is that one?

What is to describe you?

Give me your strongest trait and your weakest trait.

And then

you're free.

You're a free agent.

My weakest trait,

self-worth.

Self-worth.

Never felt I was worthy of anything.

And again, I attribute that to how I grew up.

My strongest trait is that

I love to give and I really like people a lot.

There would be

two answers to that.

Two answers.

Well, I'll say, I really like you a lot.

Thank you very much for coming on this podcast.

It was an honor.

I know you don't want to be praised.

It gets you get uncomfortable.

So I'll say, I really liked having you.

You're a really cool guy.

And maybe, you know, we can do this again sometime if it works out.

Well, thank you very much.

I appreciate it.

Thank you very much, Jerry West, guys.

You can find him basically anywhere online.

I don't think you have Instagram and Facebook, do you?

No, no, I didn't think so.

That's not me.

Yeah,

I didn't think so.

Thank you very much, Jerry West.

Thank you so much.