Episode 283: Yung Pueblo: The Secret Skill That Will Transform Your Life and Heal You

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Gresham.

I'm excited about this podcast because this guy is just so popular, but because he's so popular because he has such wisdom in only 35 years of living.

It's pretty amazing.

So it's Diego Perez, otherwise known as, I'm sorry if I pronounced it incorrectly, but young Pueblo.

Perfect.

I said it well, right?

Perfect.

Yes.

Good.

And I'm going to quickly read this bio.

It's a quick one.

So it's Diego Perez is a meditator and a number one New York Times best-selling author who is widely known on social media through his pen name, Young Pueblo.

Online, he has an audience of over 3 million people.

He's sold over a million books worldwide already.

Yep.

Damn.

And it's also been translated into over 25 languages.

His writing focuses on the power of self-healing, creating healthy relationships, and the wisdom that comes when we truly truly work on knowing ourselves.

And now his fourth book, The Way Forward, is coming out.

So congratulations, by the way.

Thank you so much.

No, thank you for being here.

I was saying to you outside, like people have been like telling me to get you on this podcast.

Oh, it's so nice.

You know, it's true.

You're like very popular.

Like people love you.

Yeah.

You know, it's funny because it only, it only, I can only feel how big things have gotten when I leave the woods.

Because my wife and I live in the middle of nowhere.

So life could not be more mundane and normal.

Really?

Yeah, we live in this tiny little town, 2,000 people, acres between neighbors.

And like...

Was that intentional?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

We used to live in New York City for about seven years.

And but we've been up in the woods for about three years now.

So why did you move to the woods?

I think it felt like where I was in terms of young Pueblo and writing and interfacing with publishers and all of that, it felt like we made the connections that we needed.

And because New York City is the type of place where being there can help you depending on so many different parts of your career, like where you're at or what you're trying to do.

And I was able to meet a lot of people that opened a lot of doors for me and just, you know, served me in such profound ways.

And then I felt like we were both just missing nature.

Like we were, we were tired of the cement.

Yeah.

You know, just concrete, concrete.

And, um, but being out in the woods, having a garden, like seeing the deer every day, like just being around these baby foxes will come and like they'll, like their babies will be born under our porch like for a month or every summer.

We get to see them grow for like a few weeks before they move move on.

Like, these are the type of things that you can't really get in the city.

Absolutely not.

So, so, what did you say?

You said when you like leave, what happens?

Do you get, do people come up to you?

Do they recognize you?

Do they know who you are?

Very rarely, very rarely.

Because, like, I don't, I don't promote my face that much.

It's only when I go on podcast tours and some of them are filmed.

Then, you know, I'll share a clip every now and then.

Or if I, you know, get to be on TV or something, I'll share a clip.

But other than that, all you see is black and white.

Totally.

That's what I'm writing.

You're so wise, though.

I, I gotta say, so, you, do you, do you have a a background in writing and journalism?

No.

Nothing.

Nothing.

Zero.

Yeah.

I honestly never thought I'd be a writer.

Never thought that my life would go in this direction.

It honestly just all comes from decreasing the density and heaviness of the mind through meditating.

It wasn't until like my third meditation course when I was like, oh, I should write.

And then I started.

picking up the skill from there.

So before that, you were not doing any of this.

Like in high school, you weren't writing, nothing?

Never, never.

It was never my strength.

I got like you know B's in English class and all that I like to read but not like more than you know the biggest readers or anything nothing like unique like that the only thing is just it's I think all the hours of meditation that I've done have kind of shifted my mind in a way where the creativity just opens up it's amazing it really is amazing because like okay where's the book I have oh here I have it okay so it's like a it's like poetry basically like I think when I was reading your bio what it should have said is a meditator and a poet because that's how I see you.

I see you as like a poet more than anything.

And these books, I feel like this book reminds me of like just like nice little poem, like poetry, you know, entries of some kind.

Yeah, totally.

I think this, this book, especially design.

So I've released, this is going to be my fourth book.

The first two were in that similar design where it was poetry and prose, sort of a combination.

Prose.

That's the word I was looking for.

A combination of these short little poems or quotes, and then also having these tiny little essays that are bite-sized.

And

I like that format because I grew up in a city and I grew up, I grew up in Boston and I took the train, right?

My whole, like, well, I took the train to middle school to and high school.

And when I first started writing Inward, my first book, I would imagine people on the train to work.

And I'm like, what could they, you know, the few pages that they could read on their 30-minute commute, like, could they get something that they can then reflect on for the rest of the day?

So it was pretty intentional to design a book like that.

But my third book, Lighter, that one's a full sort of nonfiction where I go super deep into personal transformation and how that affects the world.

So all of the books, though, have become like instant bestsellers.

Like, did you even expect that to happen?

Like,

no.

I mean, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's like something

I can't really control.

It's like a phenomenon that goes off on its own.

And I think with Inward and Clarity and Connection, they grew a little more slowly.

But with lighter, it just like, you know, debuted at the top.

And it was kind of shocking to see because especially with the New York Times, right, you don't know what's going to happen.

Right.

You don't know.

And they have their own secret formula.

Maybe you fit it, maybe you don't.

So I really wasn't expecting anything.

So when I saw the number one, I was like, whoa, really pretty blown away.

It's amazing.

So let's talk about your origin story because you're not a writer.

You said you weren't.

And your background

is interesting for what you're doing now, right?

So I know you've spoken about this before, about, you know, you, you kind of meditation changed your entire life.

And I want to relate, right?

So I want to talk about how you got into, like, who, what was your, what's your origin story?

Like I said, how you even found meditation.

And then we'll kind of go from there, if that's okay.

Sure.

Yeah.

So my story starts with emigrating to the United States.

So I was originally born in Ecuador in South America in a city called Guayaquil.

And my mother and father, they noticed that they needed a change.

They needed a place with more opportunity.

So they decided to roll the dice.

And they were like, okay, let's try our, you know, to see what happens happens in the United States.

And, you know, I grew up in, in Boston, but once we got there, it was extremely difficult.

Like we grew up in really serious poverty.

My parents were constantly trying to figure out how to pay the rent.

There wasn't always that much food in the fridge.

Like I remember many times sort of like having my dinner and being like, I'm, you know, I'm like a growing, you know, boy.

And I'm like, I need to turn it more.

And watching my parents fight, it was really confusing to me.

Like I, I really, I grew up thinking that they didn't love each other, that they were sort of mismatched.

But I was wrong.

Actually, the problem was structural.

Like, they didn't have anyone else to share their stress with.

So, they would share it with each other.

And then, my brother and I would watch.

We were like, oh, you know, our parents are fighting.

But now that I've grown up, my brother's grown up, my little sister's grown up, and we're able to help each other in the family.

My parents don't have that stress anymore.

And there's so much more harmony in their relationship because, you know, they were just fighting about like, how do we pay the rent?

Like, how do we get this done?

And kind of survive, basically.

Literally.

And, you know, my mom, she worked cleaning houses.

My dad worked at a supermarket.

So we were stuck in a very classic American poverty trap.

And that induced a lot of sort of silent sadness and anxiety inside of me that I kind of was oblivious to.

And when I went to college, because it was never quite processed and I was pulled so far outside of my initial comfort zone by being like, you know, in a diverse city with people that I had grown up with, that feeling of sadness and anxiety just would come up so strongly.

And what I turned to was just drugs, you know, drugs, alcohol, smoking marijuana constantly and just treating my body in a way where I was constantly pushing it to the edge.

And that took me to the point where, you know, I almost lost my life.

It was like the summer of 2011, did way too many drugs one night and just felt like my heart was going to explode.

And I spent the like two hours on the floor just feeling like I'm like at the edge of life.

And in that moment, I realized I'm like, I do not want to go out like this.

Like, I feel horrible.

I feel like I've been lying to myself for so many years and I need to just figure out a new way to move forward.

And that's when I started, you know, I threw away the hard drugs.

And what were you taking?

What were you doing?

A lot of it was like a lot of cocaine and different pills and a lot of alcohol, a lot of marijuana, whatever I could get my hands on.

Right.

Were you like, were you an addict or were you just like a partier?

And there is a distinction.

And what I mean by that is you know in college a lot of people I know I never was into that however tons of my friends or people I knew were like hardcore partiers but after but they grew out of it they didn't go to rehab or anything like that and I think I was in that first category where I partied hard I would party like four times a week and um

We would definitely push it to the limit like a lot.

But when I wanted to stop, I was able to stop.

Yeah.

And, you know, I've never been to rehab or anything and I don't really consider myself like a recovering addict it felt like that was a time period in my life right and I was you know fortunate enough to be able to close the door on it successfully but something within that moment or that time period did it it was it within that moment when you were like just almost died you like would you that you found meditation or that you were on a path of wellness or it was a year later when I found meditation but the first thing I did was I was like I did some self-examination I was like how did I get here Yeah.

And what I realized was that I got there by constantly lying to myself.

Like, I did just, I just never wanted to admit that I didn't feel good.

And, you know, what I would end up doing was that I, when these emotions would come up, I would just try to find the quickest medium to numb them.

And usually that was rolling up a joint, you know, just roll up a joint, smoke, and hopefully the anxiety or sadness or whatever it is would go away.

So I realized if lying to myself and not accepting myself got me to this point where I almost lost my life, then telling myself the truth can help me get out of here.

So I would, you know, practice when I would be at home.

Just, I'm like, okay, I feel that emotion.

I feel that tension again.

Let me just sit with it.

And this was before meditating.

I would just be like, okay, let me just sit with it.

And I would challenge myself to sit with it for like five, 10, 15 minutes.

And then I started realizing I'm like, what I thought was so scary is actually not that overwhelming.

It's actually doable.

Like I can feel this sadness and it's okay.

Like I'm okay.

And I trained myself like that for a while.

I started changing my eating habits.

I started like taking barley grass.

And this was.

What's barley grass?

Barleygrass is a type of superfood.

I should know this.

I've never heard.

But it's an old school one that used to be really popular before wellness was popular.

So we're talking the summer of 2011.

Are you talking about barleens?

Is that what you're talking about?

No, barley grass.

B-A-R-L-E-Y.

Not wheatgrass.

Not wheatgrass.

The cousin of wheatgrass.

Okay, so what color is it?

It's also green, but like not a less vibrant green.

And you would drink it?

I I would put it in my orange juice, which wasn't a great combination because the orange juice was just full of sugar, but I didn't know any better.

You didn't know any better.

Yeah.

And I would chug it and I was like, oh, I actually feel better.

Like, cause I was, I wasn't getting enough nutrients, right?

That's right.

And so the combo of like accepting whatever emotion was arising, trying to take in more nutrients into my body, going for long walks, trying to be more intentional about my relationship with my, you know, my now wife and my parents and my friends.

All of that was like a whole year of practice where I was trying to just reformat my life.

And after that,

almost exactly a year later, I did my first silent 10-day meditation course.

So you were kind of like, you're priming yourself, so to speak, for this meditation, but it kind of feels like you were kind of doing your own form with a sitting in this, and like sitting for five minutes, sitting for 10 minutes, which is, by the way, a long time.

I can't imagine doing 30 days, but that's a whole other thing.

But like, so you were ready, like, what made you even, so that moment, that aha moment, I mean, not statistics.

So, was that, okay, I'm not in a good place.

Let me see how I can get better and get well.

And you were kind of just doing a lot of these little

modalities intuitively.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think intuitively, I, cause I was trying to examine, like I said, like, what was going wrong.

Let me do the opposite of what was going wrong.

And that's why I was like, tell myself the truth.

Start exercising.

Start walking.

Like, start just, you know, don't worry.

What was the truth, though?

The truth was that, that I was sad that like, you know, I didn't want to face that.

That was the problem before was like, I didn't want to admit that something was wrong.

And I didn't want to admit that there was a ton of anxiety inside of me and that sometimes it would just flare up.

And I think in accepting it, it was able to

just be able to be with it without it completely taking over.

And I was, you know, I was just afraid to accept it.

What was the anxiety?

Did you figure out?

I'm sure you have by this point, but where the anxiety was coming from?

Have you have, did you, okay, where was it?

I think it was a scarcity mindset.

I think from, from when I was really little, seeing scarcity constantly in my life just made me feel very insecure.

And I think that imprint was repeated over and over and over, that reaction of like, there's not enough, there's not enough.

What do I do?

You know, how can I get through?

And I think also like a feeling of having my back against the wall and like, no one's really going to help me, I think just produced a lot of, that's, that's just the way my mind would react with the situation was through anxiety and sadness.

And now, you know, I definitely feel anxiety and sadness from time to time, but with all the meditating, it's just not as intense as it used to be.

Because it sounds to me like from everything I've heard, I've seen of you and what you write about, and well, what you talk about, everything you've spoken about, is that literally like meditation has changed, like changed your life.

Totally, at the core, at the core.

And I think, you know, I practice in a very particular tradition.

It's the SN Goenka tradition.

It's called Vipassana.

It comes from Burma.

And it's a very sort of old style of meditating that's quite rigorous, you know, difficult.

A lot of people, when they hear about it, going to these silent 10-day meditation course,

it may not be for them, but for the people that it is for, it works wonders.

And I was lucky to find a tool that just like fits my conditioning, fits where I'm at, and it's just providing me incredible results.

Is that the first type of meditation you tried?

Yeah.

Are you serious?

So you haven't even tried all you have a trans what's it called?

Transcendental.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, but I've found this one style of meditating and it gave me so much,

like,

it provided such big results and changed the way my mind would react and just decrease that reaction and also gave me so much learning.

Like I was learning so much from it that like every time I go away to meditate, I get so much.

I'm like, well, you know, I'm so busy here.

Why would I go anywhere else?

Yeah.

What is it based out of?

Like what's the base?

Well, how is that different?

How is

Vipassana?

What are the fundamental traits of that or the core traits of that?

Yeah, so the core trait of that is that it's a path out of suffering.

And

it originates from the Buddhist teaching, right?

So it's something that's like 2,600 years old.

Right.

And when you go to these silent 10-day retreats, the whole time you're working with reality as it is.

So you're not trying to change reality.

You're not trying to do anything to it.

You're not running away from everything, but you're just being with whatever arises in that moment.

And so for the first three days of the 10-day course, you learn this technique called anapana that helps you focus on the natural breath.

So, you're not doing anything else, you're just being aware of the natural breath that helps calm and concentrate the mind.

Okay, and then the last seven days, you learn the practice of a passana, which helps you feel the truth in the body, where you're literally feeling the sensations in the body, and that'll open you to the wisdom of impermanence, the truth of change.

And that truth of change is where a lot of our suffering resides because we do our like our darndest to just battle against change.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So this form of meditation, you says 10 days, is that silent?

Yeah.

So you went from not doing any meditation, being like, hey, I'm going to pick this 10 days silent retreat and give it a go.

Yeah.

And so you're not talking at all to anybody.

You're not talking at all.

You can ask the teacher questions.

Are you in a room alone?

You're in a room with like 80 other people.

But you're not talking to each other.

You're not talking to each other.

You're not making eye contact.

You're just, you're in an environment almost similar to what monks would do when they're going on retreats.

Yeah, but we're all, you know, the vast majority of people there are householders, just like us.

You know, they have jobs, they have responsibilities and whatnot, but they take this time away because it's a valuable investment.

Like, you know, for me, it helps me so much with writing and whatever business I'm doing.

But whether you're like a doctor or a lawyer, like so many people from different walks of life, different artists, musicians, they all go because not only do they come out and learn how to live better in their own minds because they're reacting less but all the aspects of their work get smoother because when your mind is clearer calmer more peaceful it just functions at a better level so wait so how many years ago did you do this 2011 you said yeah 2011 and i've been doing courses ever since so i'll go away a few times a year and um i've

meditated a lot

yeah yeah i can imagine yeah 10 days at a time 10 days i've done 20 day courses 30 day courses 45 courses.

Are you saying courses, though?

You mean that you're silent for yourself?

Like continuity, right?

You're in a meditation center and the course is, you know, will be 45-day long, 45-day long, and you're there the whole time.

Walk me through what it would be like.

Okay, so

you basically get there.

Where's your phone?

Oh, that's one of my favorite parts about it.

Okay.

You give them whatever device that you come with, right?

If you have your laptop, your phone, or something, you give it to them and they lock it away and you get it at the end of the course.

So you can't, like if your wife has something to tell you, nothing.

Nothing, nothing.

It's literally only if like you can give your emergency, the emergency contact to somebody in your family.

So if like something really serious happens and we're talking like serious, like your child is ill or a family member is ill, then they'll call you and you know, pull you out of the course.

But if it's something like, oh, your job needs you to do X, Y, and Z, no, that's not getting through.

Right.

It's only like a severe

death kind of emergency.

Exactly.

If something's like really, especially with the family unit is happening, then yeah, you'll, you know, they'll let you know what's happening or do they need to pull you out of the course, sure.

But when I go there, I'm so happy to just give them my phone.

I'm like, take it away.

Oh, my God.

I don't even want to see that thing.

And I so joyfully just give it to them.

And I'm like, okay, now it's just me.

And let me observe.

And then, okay, so you said you keep on saying course.

So then what?

Do they give you a room?

Are you in a room with 80 people?

Are you in your private room?

Yeah, you have your own room.

You have tornado.

Do you pay for this?

Do you pay for torture?

It's free.

Yeah.

It's free.

I know.

It's one of the few sort of meditation centers like this where you, it's all done by donation.

And not even a suggested donation, like, oh, you should pay X amount.

No, it's like whatever, you know, if you want to donate at the end of the course,

you know, after you have completed one, then you can donate however much you want.

And through those donations, we built up these, you know, great centers in Canada and the United States.

There's centers all over the world that teach this same technique.

Okay, so what is the technique?

What happens?

You're going to have to go to the 10-day course.

I know.

I was going to say, maybe.

So this is the thing is like you can't, it's really just about observing, observing what's happening in the framework of the body.

And you're observing and that'll connect you to the truth of impermanence, to the truth of suffering.

And, but to do that, it takes 10 days to learn the full technique.

It's like a 10-day guided meditation.

So.

Is someone teaching you?

Someone's teaching you.

You're getting instructions constantly in no book because you're already good at reading and writing and thinking.

But are you good at feeling?

And that's what they're teaching you there.

They're teaching you to enhance your ability to feel, particularly your ability to be aware, your ability to be non-reactive, and your ability to be compassionate and loving towards all beings and yourself.

Yeah.

So, the first time you did this, was it like, were you totally oh, it was terrible, terrible, yeah.

Like, I mean, what happened?

Were you freaking out?

It was, you know, I actually feel really fortunate that I took this course

right before Uber was available.

We're out of there.

I would have been out of there.

Yeah, no, it was so hard.

It was really difficult to just be with myself and all the crap that's inside of me and all this stuff that was coming up.

So I kept looking at the guy who gave me a ride.

And, you know, I took my first course as a center in On Alaska, Washington.

I was in Portland, Oregon at the time.

So I, you know, from the ride share, got a ride up with this guy and he gave a ride to me and like two other people.

And I kept looking at this guy and I'm like, is he going to leave?

Because if he's going to leave, I'm getting out of here.

And but he looked, he was staying put, he wasn't going anywhere.

And I was like, crap, there's no way out.

And you couldn't just walk out?

Well, there was nowhere to go.

I was in the middle of nowhere.

So there was no like bus or train or taxi.

Could you ask the guy, basically the teacher, hey, I want to get the hell out of here?

Oh, you can totally leave.

Yeah.

You're not like a prisoner or anything.

But I wouldn't do one if the other guy wasn't in it.

Yeah, because I mean, to me, back then, also, I had no money then.

So I was like, I had to get, her, I had to hitch a ride.

That is hilarious.

Yeah, but I'm really grateful that the situation worked out that way because it was so like, it was hard.

But when I left, when I finished the course, I noticed that something was different with my mind.

I was like, my mind feels lighter.

Like it feels like it lost like 10 pounds.

And even though, you know, I still had those struggles in my mind, but I was like, something has shifted here.

And I didn't fully understand the technique.

I didn't fully like why it worked.

But then I was like, I need to go back.

I need to go.

Whatever the, whatever it did, I need to get more of that because there's a lot more to undo here.

So, how do they teach?

Like, so it's kind of like, you know, when you learn to swim sometimes, they say, just throw the baby or the kid in the water and they'll find out.

Those videos scare me.

It scares me too.

Totally scares me too.

But is it the same kind of thing?

Like, they throw you into a room.

Do they give you an outline of what you should be doing?

Or there's zero.

There's no confusion there.

It's like you are constantly guided throughout the meditation you're given instructions every few hours they're like you know practice this you do it for a few hours practice what give me an example you gotta go you gotta go are you not allowed to tell people i think it devalues to go into hyper detail about the meditation it devalues it because you have to do it all in the context of how they're teaching you And that's why when I break it down to you and I'm like, you know, three days of being aware of the breath, there's a lot more details to that.

you know,

seven days of, you know, being aware of the body, much more details to that.

But I think it's worth checking out, especially if it piques your interest and you're listening.

Yeah, you know, you go to dama.org, d-h-a-m-m-a.org, and see if it's something for you.

It may, may or may not be, but if it is, it's like you hit gold.

Wow.

And so after the first 10 days, what did it do for you beyond like, what is it?

You felt lighter in your head.

What was like, how did you kind of start to transform your life or start writing?

Oh, the first thing I noticed, right?

So that summer, my, my wife and I, we had taken a break and it was a moment in our relationship.

We had already been together for six years.

And it was a moment in our relationship where it was like make or break.

Like, are we going to do this for the long haul or are we going to part ways?

When I finished that course, I was like, I need to ask her to marry me.

Like, she is the one.

And it was so clear to me that I've been undervaluing our relationship, that I need to treat her way better, and that I just need to like like fully commit.

And it was a after I got back home from Portland, I think like two weeks later, I asked her to marry me and then we got married.

You know, we were engaged for three years and then got married after that.

But it provided a lot of clarity for questions that were just swimming in my mind for so long.

Is your wife into the same stuff that you're into?

Oh, yeah, she's a super good meditator.

Really?

Yeah, yeah.

She did a course like, I think like she was working as a scientist at the time.

So her time wasn't as flexible as mine.

And she did one like nine months later, but she said a ton of courses too.

Really?

Yeah.

So what was at this point, what was your degree in college?

What did you do?

Economics.

Economics.

Okay.

Yeah.

Plan number one was to be an investment banker.

Really?

Yeah.

I'm so glad it didn't work out.

Right?

Yeah.

But, I mean, we'll get to the fun later.

Yeah.

But so you got, so basically then, what was like, so when after you got this meditation down, you asked your what, your now wife to marry you.

What other life changes did you do?

Like, what was your job back then what were you doing I was working in the nonprofit world as a consultant we were I was working for this

it was called the design studio for social intervention and we were basically to help other nonprofits with whatever it was that they were working on and it was a great job I was learning a lot but then I knew like as I kept meditating you know like I mentioned the third course before at the end of that third 10-day course, I felt like right before it was over, I could feel, I was like, this thing's working.

Like nobody ever in my life told me that you can heal yourself.

Nobody.

And we're talking, we're talking pre the wellness era.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

now everything's the wellness era.

Right.

So, so now every people know there's, there are plenty of examples.

Like you can heal yourself, you can transform yourself, and so many different ways that you can do it.

But for me at that time, I grew up in a way where if you were sick physically, if you were sick mentally, you're just going to have to deal with that and live with that the rest of your life.

And when I, as I kept meditating and I started seeing that my mind is transforming and that I actually genuinely feel better, it shocked me.

And in that moment, I felt right, like right, even though you are not fully healed, you're not fully wise, like you're just starting to learn right.

Like let people know that healing is possible.

Because I think it, it shocked it, shocked me so deeply back then.

So I started just exploring the different things that I was learning.

And

it took like a year of me hearing my intuition, bring that up over and over again for me to just start taking it seriously and start writing.

So then did you start meditating how long every day?

You came from a 10-day retreat, right?

So

what was it like?

So for two years, I took a few 10-day courses and it was after that sort of two-year period where I was able to start meditating every day.

And that was a really big game changer.

Oh, you weren't meditating every day, even after the courses?

Even after the courses, yeah.

Really?

It just, it felt like a very big,

like I just couldn't do it.

My mind wasn't ready ready for it.

So I would sample the courses.

I would keep going.

I was getting results from the courses, but I knew I was like, if I meditate every day, this will like bring it up a notch.

And when I did, and now I've been meditating every day, an hour in the morning, hour in the evening for, I think like nine years or eight years.

I don't really keep count, but it's been since the since March 2015.

Two hours a day.

Yeah.

So how do you sit?

Where do you sit?

How do you do it?

Oh, wherever I am.

Wherever I am.

I sit.

This morning I like woke up, my alarm went off and I saw my wife, you know, needed more sleep.

So I'm like, I just sat up on the bed and just started meditating and set my timer for an hour and it went off.

And wait, so how do you not just fall asleep?

Oh,

you just stay.

I mean, I was, I wasn't laying down, I was sitting up.

So still, like, I mean,

I'm asking you for a friend.

No,

I'm asking you because

I,

Diego, I have tried so many times to do this.

So many times.

And like, I can't even do six seconds.

I'm not joking.

I'm like, my mind wanders here.

I think about,

I could, I could be doing this, or I forgot about this.

I had to email.

I got to do that.

Yeah.

Like to quiet my mind for 10 seconds is hard.

Yeah.

And I think that's fantastic.

You get to see how wild your mind really is.

And that's how everyone starts.

And honestly, like, I still have moments like that too, but you keep trying.

That's the secret to meditating: you keep trying.

You have to think of it as a mental gym.

You're literally going to a mental gym.

There are qualities in your mind that are there, but they're not strong yet.

So how do you make them stronger?

You practice them.

You practice them over and over and over again.

So yeah, when you start meditating, people say, you know, I can't meditate.

I'm so bad at it.

Of course you're bad at it.

Of course.

Right.

Whose mind can focus in one spot or do something when it wants to just be distracted over and over again?

So what do you do?

You're not just going to like, you know, you're not just going to run a marathon from zero.

Right, right.

You got to train.

And it's the same thing with meditating.

You got to build these mental qualities over time.

And it's the combination of that strong determination and you just being okay with repeatedly trying again, trying again.

And then you'll notice a big difference arises.

Really?

Yeah.

So like, what, what are you thinking about for an hour in the morning?

And like, what do you go through your head?

Or nothing goes through your head?

A bunch of crap.

Yeah.

Like, just like whatever, you know, like different thoughts will pop up.

Like, I got to email this person, got to do that.

But I'm going to do that.

And you do, you think of that too?

Yeah.

But then I bring myself back to the meditation object, which is, you know, just being aware of my sensations on the body.

Yeah.

I'm fascinated by the amount of time, but like, I'm also, you know, with this podcast, you know, I hear almost 90% of the best experts.

And I mean, I've had everyone on this, a lot of people on this podcast, and they say most people use meditation as one of the most primary practices for stress, for for success, for all these things.

And these are people who are like very alpha too, right?

Like how do you even, I know you're going to say just start and practice, but are there different forms of meditation?

Like if I'm a runner, can I meditate while I'm running?

Can I get myself in that same flow state?

People would say very different things.

I would say running is running, right?

And running.

provides incredible benefits, but there's something very different when you are sitting down, trying your best to keep the body still, which will ultimately support the mind and being more focused.

So they're quite different things.

And being able to sit down and meditate, I think, will provide you a very particular set of outcomes than, you know, running in itself.

What would they be?

Well, it depends on the meditation style, right?

There's a ton of different meditation styles.

So, and different meditation styles will have different goals, different things that they're trying to teach you.

Like, you know, something like TM and Vipassana, they're quite different.

You know, having a mantra versus being aware of reality as it is.

Explain that in like in being aware of reality the way it is.

Is it like neutral thinking in a way right it's objective observation right so normally when we're interacting with reality we're like our perception is constantly imposing constantly projecting like you remind me of this and because you remind me of that that's how i felt about that old thing so i'm going to feel like that about you or you know or it's just constantly just throwing stuff on the wall in vipassana you're trying to just really train the mind to just observe without any type of projection to observe observe in a balanced way and to see what's genuinely there.

And I think that's a very different quality than

just throwing stuff around.

So I work with a high-performance company.

It's called Limitless Minds.

And one of the main pillars is this thing called neutral thinking.

And what it is, it's basically not overly positive, you know, those positive poly people or not the negative, not the negative, but a place in the, there's a third mindset, which is this idea of neutral thinking.

And it sounds very similar to what you said, which is this objective place where, you know, you're accepting things for how it is, what it is.

It's like a you, I feel like that's maybe meditation, the one, the kind of meditation you're doing is maybe there's all these different euphemisms, so to speak, for getting to the same place in your brain.

Yeah.

Right.

And like in terms of how to think of something.

Yeah.

And I think there, there's, there's definitely some similarities there.

And I think the sort of major difference is that with this style of meditating, you are always moving with your direct experience, right?

Like you're like directly experiencing the breath, you're directly experiencing the body, and you're not so much trying to like shift your thoughts, which is like, you know, we, we often live our lives on the intellectual realm.

Like we're thinking, we're trying to figure things out, we're trying to process things.

But this style of meditating is like, let me see how balanced I can be with what I'm feeling.

And I think that's, that's one of the struggles.

Like a lot, I think a lot of our sort of struggles mentally in life is like because we're avoiding what we're feeling.

And this helps you just embrace that truth of impermanence, the way everything is constantly changing without it being a battle.

And now it's like more of a friendship.

So again, you have a way with words.

And so would you say, what are the ways that, like in a tangible way, that how meditation, like, what did it help you do?

It helped you.

Okay.

And what areas of life did it really kind of

open up for you?

In the beginning, it opened up my relationships like I really saw the way my relationship with my parents was quite stagnant and quite superficial similar with the relationships with my friends it felt like we had a set pattern and we would just repeat that pattern over and over and over again and when I as I kept meditating I realized that I don't have to say the same thing anymore or like all the time I don't have to be the same way and if I put in a different input into the situation I'll get a different output.

And I think one of the like classic examples that I point to is the relationship with my father where I love him.

Like I love him so much.

He's a fantastic human being.

And he cares for all of us so deeply, but he often cares for us in a silent way where he shows us how much he loves us by how he will just break his back for us.

You know, he'll work so hard for us and really try to care for us in that way.

But I felt like I really wanted to vocalize my love to him.

So I remember this day where I would, you know, I saw him coming in home from work and I was like, let me just give him a big hug and tell him I love him.

And I think that day kind of like opened a new chapter on our relationship where it's like even so much more open than before.

He tells me he loves me.

He tells me he's proud of me in ways that he wasn't able to say that before when I was younger.

And, but that was, I think I credit, I mean, a lot of that was his work too.

But I think the door opened when I was like, you know what?

Let me hug this man because I love that dude.

You know, I love that.

That's so cute.

That's so cute.

Does, does your dad meditate now?

Did you get your dad into that?

No, no, my dad is not.

He's like, I can't.

He's like, I'm just trying to figure out how to live with all this stuff.

Exactly, exactly.

He doesn't even, but like, but how about your, but did you get your wife in?

Because you said she meditates, but did you get your wife into it?

Yeah, she, when she heard about it, she wanted to go on her own, but she just had to had to work out her work schedule and do it.

And it's been wonderful.

Like, you know, she's not only my wife, my best friend, my roommate, my manager, like my number one sort of, you know, we think about everything together, but she's also my comrade in wisdom.

Like she takes the path of wisdom so seriously.

She loves meditating.

We've, you know, I've seen her flourish and we will talk about the practice so much with each other.

And it's like, we're in this together in a really profound and,

I don't know, like undeniable way.

And I think it's funny because when we first met in college, we were immediately attracted to each other.

And we both weren't quite sure why.

You know, like because we were so different from each other.

We came, you know, she came from like the middle of, you know, tiny little suburb and I was from the city.

And, you know, she came from a Jewish background.

I was Ecuadorian.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And stop it.

No way.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

What's her name?

Sarah.

You should have brought Sarah.

I know.

Did you, did you fast yesterday?

Did she fast?

It was Jem Kabupu.

Yeah, it was Jam Kupor.

No, she did not.

No.

But she's Jewish.

She's very, she's very Jewish.

Yeah.

But so we were both like, and we were like, why are we even into each other?

And the connection was so strong that there were multiple times when we were like, we don't know how to take care of this relationship because we didn't have the skills to, you know, to like love each other well.

Yeah.

But we kept going back.

Like, you know, we would try to break up and we kept going back, kept going back.

And once we started meditating, it was like, oh, like we've done this before.

Like we've been doing this, you know, like we've we've been doing this together.

And, like, now our relationship makes so much more sense.

And it was beautiful the way over time, like, it wasn't immediately perfect, but over time, meditating and working on our individual things created this effect where more harmony started coming into our relationship.

And that's what I'm saying.

So, like, the first effect that I saw from meditating was it just transformed, deepened, and brought more harmony to the relationships.

It didn't make anything perfect, but it brought this like deeper connection that wasn't quite there before.

So, then, how did okay, so at that time you had a consulting job.

So did you first go on social media or did you first go write the book?

The first thing I did was I sheepishly asked my wife for her support because we moved to New York City and our plan was to, you know, just be around our college friends, try to get better jobs and just, you know, keep building together.

And I had that feeling that I should write for like a while and I was not telling her about it.

I I was pretty scared by it.

And I asked Sarah, I was like, hey, I feel like, like, can you give me time?

You know, can you give me time to just focus on writing, to start teaching myself how to write, to start putting things out there?

Because I don't know if it'll work, but it may work, you know?

And she said yes.

So she let me spend a few years without working and just focusing on writing.

And she took care of the two of us.

So you can imagine this moment.

I was like very sheepishly, like almost like head down.

I was like, I have this idea.

It's kind of crazy.

Are you down?

Like, can you hold the two of us down for a little while while I try to do this?

And I told her the backup plan.

I was like, if it doesn't work, I'm going to become, I'm going to teach history in high school.

That's the plan.

And I was like, and you know that that's doable.

Like I can make that happen.

And she was like, okay.

So she gave me time.

What was the plan?

What in your head?

How did you describe it to her?

I told her that.

Like,

I had, I was watching Instagram and I told her I had seen a few writers, you know, get their stuff out there and start developing success.

And I'm talking like first wave Instagram writers like Rupi Cower, R.M.

Drake, and they were putting their books out there.

And I didn't understand back then to what degree or like how many books they were selling, but I saw that it was possible, you know, to make a living off of your own writing.

And when I explained that to her, I was like, I need time though to like develop my voice as a writer, to develop, to figure out what exactly I'm going to write about, to figure out how I can talk about this healing message in a way where, you know, at at a time when people are inundated with stuff, like how you can get someone's attention in a healthy way.

And she said yes.

You know, she was like, yeah, go, go for it.

Give it your best shot.

And now she's very, she's very happy.

She's very, very grateful that she said yes.

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So how did you work it out?

Like when you first, like, was there different types of like styles you were playing with or yeah, there was different styles that in the beginning, it it was similar to everyone else where, you know, you put up a picture and then you write a caption.

So the first few things that I would write, there were like these longer little essays that would fit into the 2,000 characters that Instagram would give you.

And I think during that time, it got up to like maybe like 30,000 followers.

That's still a lot.

It was a lot.

Yeah.

I was like, you were really,

we were like, whoa.

And, but it was, it was slow.

Like, it took like two years to get there.

And then when I switched to the format of the full black and white, let me write, you know, a little piece or give or just share the main idea of what I was writing about as an image, that's when everything started taking off.

And this.

What year was this?

This was like 2015.

Yeah.

So you've been on Instagram for how long then?

That's been like eight, nine, 10 years?

Yeah, it's been a while.

It's been a long time.

It's been like nine years.

And I think of myself as like a second generation Instagram writer.

So like I came after that sort of like that first group that had some success.

And

then like you know after i i self-published inward i felt like that first poetry and prose book you did i just i knew i was like no publisher is going to want this i was like they're not going to want this they're they wouldn't even know what to do with it so let me just self-publish and see what happens and um and it's i self-published it I think it sold like 12,000 copies in like five or six months.

And I was just like blown away.

I was like, whoa, this is crazy.

Eventually signed with a publisher, re-release re-release that book in bookstores, and then everything just kind of took off.

Like, you know, how many did you sell that particular book?

What after you?

That book, I think to date, like probably like 350,000 copies of that one.

Yeah.

And it's been, you know, just watching it all grow.

I think it was after I hit 100,000.

It was much faster to hit 500,000.

And, you know, from a million to 2 million was probably like the fastest jump.

And I think now my audience is like around like 3.5 million.

And it's just been a whirlwind it's been yeah right because you need some traction to then get traction right it's really hard to grow from zero or thirty thousand what do you think it was though do you think it just was that it was catching fire because people were sharing it yeah yeah I think it was people were sharing it and it was the right place right time I think

I was you know doing this healing work at the same time that a lot of other people were doing their healing work yeah and people were sort of like navigating through the dark because there weren't like that many clear modalities then.

There weren't any coaches.

There weren't any like, you know, therapists on Instagram yet.

We're talking like way before all that stuff.

It's inundated.

Yeah.

So if you want something, like you can just go out there and just like type it in and you'll get it.

But back then there was nothing.

So that conversation that was happening in 2015, 2016 about self-love, when self-love like really first hit Instagram, you know, I was part of that conversation and I would just write about my perspectives on self-love.

And I think a lot of that helped it all grow.

Right.

Because it became, because things always trend, right?

They ebb and flow, right?

We can totally talk about it.

After the self-love conversation came the conversation about letting go.

After that came the conversation about different styles, like literal ways that you can let go, different modalities.

Like what?

Tell us, like, tell us, go, tell us about all the different how

to do it.

All right.

So, so 2015 to 2016, self-love was huge.

2017 to like 2019,

so so many people were talking about letting go and talking about their different perspectives on it.

I think 2020 was the big year of the Instagram therapists, right?

Where so many of them came on and just like hit it hard.

And it was wonderful because then out of that came conversations about boundaries, conversations about, you know, narcissism, how to deal with the family group and all of that.

And I think now we're in a time period where authenticity has become more important than anything because everything is so inundated, right?

There are so many different people who are sharing their words online.

All businesses know that you should have some type of like words, right?

Because when you share words on your Instagram, and if they're words that connect with people and they're also, you know, are nice looking, the way they set up the visuals, then other people will share them and then your business will grow.

So not only do you have like the writers and therapists and poets sharing their words, but all these small businesses are also doing it because they know it helps grow the page.

So, um, totally.

I think, I think these days people are just like, let me like, how can I be real?

So that I'm not just like saying the same thing everyone else is saying.

But everybody's saying this.

This is the problem, right?

Everybody's starting to say the same.

I mean, I become deaf to it, right?

And it, it's because it's now like information overload.

Everybody's saying the same things in one iteration or another, right?

And I do notice like the posts that do really well are the ones that are words, right?

The pages pages that are growing fast aren't people, you know, posing with their, you know, dog anymore, their cat or whatever at the beach, but it's the ones that have like a meaningful quote that people can relate to.

Yeah.

Like even on my page,

if I put a quote, that one gets way more traction than literally anything else.

Yeah.

And you'll notice too that even in the age of reels, right, when people are putting up so many videos, if you get a reel that has 30,000 likes and a sort of a post about, you know, that has an image of words that has 30,000 likes, those words will probably get you more followers.

And

it's interesting seeing this dynamic.

And I think that combination of the two, it's like, that's the age we live in.

You have to mix in video too.

But there's a big value to just put words because if people are inundated with videos, constantly videos, like their mind's going to want a moment to relax as they're scrolling to just read a few words.

And I talk about this with other friends who have Instagram, you know, followings.

Like, I'm really good friends with Nadra and Alex L, and

a bunch of other people.

But we talk about how important it is to, you know, there's like, you can write a hit, like, you can.

And there's, there's almost like a formula to it.

And it may not hit every single time, but if you keep trying it, it'll work.

And if you take the combination of whatever topic is popular in that moment and you make it so that you're innocent and another person is guilty, then it's likely that this thing will catch more attention because that's just human psychology.

And, but you have to be really sort of wary of that.

And one, you don't want to make it, you don't want people to think that it's always someone else's fault because that's totally unrealistic, right?

That's not life.

Like,

and of course, like, granted, there are definitely people who've...

been hurt by others, have been abused, who've, you know, gotten out of traumatic situations.

You know, that is well respected and acknowledged.

But at the same time, in everyday relationships, like it's usually two people are making mistakes, not just one.

Right.

But what you said, what I think, what I

talk about authenticity is there's the strategy behind it.

And people pretend that there's no strategy behind it.

When your business is literally online on social media, like you don't have a business if no one's following you, right?

And no one likes your stuff.

That is what it is.

So you have to figure out the algorithm, the strategies,

what's going to be the next version or iteration of this feeling of belonging.

And, you know, like I felt like with COVID, especially, having all these online pseudo therapists come on was exactly what we needed, right?

Because people were isolated and lonely and displaced and all these things.

We needed ideas.

Ideas, like, how do we figure out this relationship?

How do I take care of my mind?

100%.

And so some people exploded during there.

Did you, because you were already big already.

Did you?

No, COVID definitely, I think I grew like over a million during COVID.

You did grow.

Okay.

So I know like Nicole, I mean, she exploded during holistic psychologist who's going to be here later, funnily enough, but exploded because, and if you have good content that really does resonate with people, you're, you're like, it's like a match made in heaven.

Yeah.

But the other issue is like people, it's like think like she's actually a very, she's like a Cornell graduating, blah, blah, blah.

A lot of people are not therapists who are are going on there, giving them giving people this advice or like saying their information.

Do you think there's harm in that too?

Because left to people's own devices, you don't know who's who's who's looking at what, right?

Yeah, I think if you're pretending to be something that you're not, that's definitely very harmful and dangerous.

Like, don't say you're a therapist if you're not a therapist.

Right.

But there are also a lot of other people who are poets and meditators and, you know, different writers of sorts where they are all, all, you know, they also have perspectives.

Perspectives, that's a good thing.

And that's, and that's one thing, which is like, you know, what I share are points of reflection.

Yeah.

I'm not like, this is love and this is the way all people need to love.

No, it's just like, think about love in this particular way.

And if you agree with it or not, great.

It made you think.

right totally and that's i think when people kind of step into that zone that i'm just sharing a perspective and i've actually also seen a lot of the online therapists sort of take a step back and be like this is not active therapy right?

This is me just sharing a perspective with you, which I think is fantastic.

And then people need to also be their own masters and decide for themselves what connects, what doesn't connect,

what they want to put into play in their lives.

Yeah.

What I like about your stuff, when I was like, when I, when I, it's very, it is, it's exactly what you said.

It's like you're talking from like your perspective.

If you're feeling this, you know, like I, there's a lot of rel, it's very relationship-oriented.

Is that right now?

Because I feel like I'm seeing it all the time now.

The relationship.

Is that the zyge we're in right now?

I think so.

Absolutely.

The relationships.

I mean, relationships are like, we're talking like food, family, relationships.

Like if you, if you were to level out what's the most important things in life, right?

And it's like everybody has to eat.

I love that you said food.

Yeah, because if you don't eat for too long, then you're done for, right?

100%.

But if we were to grade things of importance on a scale, like relationships is coming in a hard second, third, or fourth, depending on who you are.

So when you talk about them, people care.

Like they want to know how to make their friendships work.

They want to know how to like make, you know, how to evolve a new relationship or evolve an old one.

And it hits at the core of being a human being.

And I think that's why everyone's like trying to say their piece.

Oh, I totally agree.

I also think the why the relationship is more than ever, I think people are like very lonely.

Yeah.

And with social media being what it is, there's nobody really knowing how to know dating has now become like a dinosaur.

People are already even dating anymore properly

other than on apps.

And then because of the situation with apps, you can just scroll, you could just like swipe.

No one's having real relationships.

The connecting point is very difficult.

So I think because so many people are in that situation, they're looking for guidance like, or people that are in the same situation that they're like, yeah, me too.

I feel that way so like everything is hitting in a certain way yeah it's funny even listening to you talk right it's making me realize that there are these two points about relationships that are coming up all the time now and it's hard conversations and emotional intelligence and you see so many people talking about these two things because they're at the crux of a relationship so if you aren't able to build emotional intelligence while you're with someone and you can't have hard conversations then you don't you don't got anything you don't have like a real platform to stand on, and the relationship will ultimately break.

So it's just funny seeing the trend because I think if we were to say a trend of like this moment,

I think those two things really stand out.

But you know what I'm thinking?

As you're saying that, I think what's funny is that trend is always trendy because, like, feelings of the heart or relationships, everyone wants to feel connected.

You know, it doesn't like success is funny because you can have all the money in the world and all the success in the world financially or in your business.

But if you are lonely and can't connect to people and have that disconnect, that will be the one, that one thing that brings you misery and unhappiness because that other stuff truly doesn't bring you joy, you know.

And anybody who's in that will tell you that's the truth, right?

No, I totally, I totally believe it.

I feel like that's why I try to cherish my relationship.

I think that's one of the biggest gifts that I've gotten from spending all these 11 years meditating and trying to understand impermanence is because I saw that I was taking my relationships for granted.

Yeah.

And now, like, you don't know, like, you literally, it doesn't, you know, you have no idea at what point something will end because everything in the universe arises, it lasts for some time, and then it'll pass away.

And you don't know when, you know, how long your parents will be here.

You don't know how long your friends will be here or your partner.

Like, you don't know what number of situations may happen.

But while they are there, are you present?

Are you trying to bring your fullest self with a good sense of energy into the situation so that you can really make the most of this beautiful moment that you have in front of you?

Because we often think about impermanence in the sense of like, you know, what it will take away, you know, because like we're so scared.

Oh, I love this.

I want to keep this forever.

But I think we also have to think about it in terms of impermanence allow this opportunity to even exist.

Can you imagine if the universe wasn't dynamic, if the universe wasn't always changing and flowing and ebbing, then you and I would not be able to have this conversation, right?

There'd be no nothing.

There'd be nothing.

Everything would be still.

But change allowed this moment to exist.

So let me try to be

as present as possible and learn as much from it and be joyful.

What I find interesting, though, like what came first with you?

Because you walk in, you have a very nice way about you.

I told you that.

You're nice, beautiful energy.

Thank you.

And no, it's true.

And I'm not just saying that.

Like, and you, if I have a calmness to you, is it, well, you, it's like the chicken or the egg?

Like, were you like this and then the meditation just amplified it?

Or did meditation just really change you into this person?

I wasn't that nice before.

Really?

Because everything seems very calming and nice and like real.

Yeah, no, I think I wasn't like...

like a criminal or anything like that, but I was like, but I wasn't like, I wasn't a very nice person.

I think in a lot of ways I was like quietly mean to some people or a jerk sometimes.

And I just think I could have tended to the people around me in much more gentler ways.

Like, you know, sometimes I was too quick to say my perspective and it might, you know, hurt someone's feeling or something like that, especially when I was like in high school or college.

And

I've reckoned with that with the fact that like I could have said things in better ways.

And now

when I think about myself moving through the world, I want to move as gently as possible because I don't know what's going on in your life.

I don't know what's going.

You know, when you meet someone new, you don't know.

You don't know what's happening.

You don't know anything about them.

So just like try, try my best to move gently, to be kind with my words, to stick in my truth and, you know, say no when I need to say no, but to be gentle.

I think that feels like a really important mission for me personally.

Like now that you have like all these millions of followers, are you writing everything?

Do you have people to help you find messages to write?

Like, how?

Yeah, no, I write everything.

My wife edits everything, but I do all of the writing.

So it's interesting.

So with the young Pueblo work, my wife, she does all of the, she's my manager and she does all of the interfacing with the talent agency, with the, you know, with all the different publishers, with the, you know, the speaking of all this stuff that

yeah, sometimes.

And,

you know, she takes care of that side of things and then helps me make all the big decisions on top of that.

But then I, so I can focus on all the writing and posting and then also focus on the venture capital work that I started doing.

So us dividing up the work like that just like opened up a bunch of doors for me.

Because before when I started, like, trust me, I spent three years writing online.

My email was empty.

Crickets, right?

There's nothing going on.

Nobody wanted anything from me.

And then all of a sudden it was just like more and more and more and more emails.

And I was like, I don't even have time to write.

That's 100%.

It's just like a full-time job, just like reading the email.

Totally.

What are people asking you to do?

Like, what are they, what are the requests that are coming in?

Oh, like anything and everything.

I can imagine.

Yeah, just like, you know, people wanting,

you know, they have this project and they want me to jump into it.

To do what?

Like, to write?

Yeah, just like, I don't know.

People come up with so many different ideas.

And honestly, I just, I don't see a lot of the emails.

I like, I, I like, I'm like, Sarah, just, just talk to me about whatever you think is important.

Yeah.

And I'm just going to, I'm just going to write.

But it's, you know, it could literally be anything like to speak at this place or you know we'll give you x amount of money if you do this ad or we'll give you you know just so many different things that i'm really grateful i'm grateful that opportunities can come our way and then we can pick what you want like two percent of them to do but at the same time if i were just answering emails i would write nothing you know there'd be no there'd be no more creative work done absolutely so do you do a lot of like speaking engagement where you keynote sometimes yeah sometimes i'll go through phases where i'll do some keynote speaking what are you talking about i talk about personal transformation.

I think I try to keep it like really practical, you know, inspiring people to know that transformation is possible.

Also sometimes talking about how,

you know, how to even bring about your business in this like online moment that we're in.

And sometimes about like, you know, venture capital.

It just depends on what the situation is.

What situation is people will ask.

And I'll go through phases where I'll do speaking events and whatnot for companies, but that's also really exhausting.

So I'd rather just try to focus my energy on either writing a new book, you know, or writing on my Substack or the venture capital work that I've been doing or, you know, or if there's like a new business venture I want to open up.

So when you say Substack, is that your newsletter?

Your newsletter is on that, right?

Yeah.

What is, okay, what is this?

Can you explain it?

I want to get into all this because I was shocked when I was like reading your bio.

And you're like, and co-founder of Wisdom Ventures.

I'm like, what?

Totally not what I was expecting.

Yeah, yeah.

And excited also.

So can you tell us, what is Substack?

What do you you like the newsletter who's writing the newsletter tell me that part yeah so in terms of the newsletter it's all on substack substack is this like wonderful company that i'm invested in personally my wisdom ventures my venture capital company that i've run with a few other friends we're also invested in it and substack is literally like a culture engine it's like where podcasters writers people who are, you know, journalists in this world where they're creating content of any sort?

It's a place where you can have access to your audience without an algorithm in between.

So it is the evolved form of a newsletter where before people used to have to pay like hundreds of dollars to maintain their newsletter every month.

And Substack, it's all for free.

And you actually can even create a paid option so that people can get more content.

So some podcasters will

share the extra sort of 15 minutes of their podcast that isn't on Spotify.

They'll share it on Substack for the people who are paid subscribers.

What I do is I'll share a few things a month, new pieces of writing for free.

But if you want a piece of writing every week, then you can, you know, pay $5 a month to be part of my paid subscription.

That also gives you access to like this private chat room where me and all the other people are like, you know, we like, we're like checking in once a week or week and a half and people are like sharing what they're grateful about or what they're learning and it's super cool.

It's just a new model where you can kind of be in contact with your audience without having a platform that's going to just change the rules on you all of a sudden.

100%.

Yeah.

It's kind of like, what's that thing called that everyone's doing?

It's like a different form of Patreon.

Yeah, Patreon.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's very, yeah, it's, it's, uh, there are some similarities, but it's, but I find that it's easier to use and quite different in the sense that it's like so much more.

Um, it's not exactly like you get this for this amount of money or, you know, all these different tiers and all that.

It's like it Substack just streamlines everything and makes it more efficient.

And I love it.

I love the founders.

I love their mission.

Like, I love that they're just trying to like, they initially started with trying to liberate writers and they're doing that.

But now they're trying to just open it up to all the other fields.

Okay, so what made you decide to start a fund in the first place?

Yeah, so I met my friend Soren Gordhammer.

He's the creator of Wisdom 2.0, this like wonderful conference that happens in Silicon Valley once a year.

And he brings together the tech and the mindfulness world.

And I had done that conference a few times.

And one time when we were checking in, sometime, I think it was early 2020, he was telling me about this idea to try to create a fund that will invest in like the next generation of platforms, you know, platforms that won't make you addicted, that won't increase loneliness, that won't increase depression.

You know, platforms that are very intentionally created so that we're not harming people's minds.

And I was like, dude, I want in.

I was like, I want to help.

So, him, myself, and four other friends, we're all general partners.

You know, Jack Kornfield?

Jack Kornfield is a famous meditation teacher.

He's also a part of it.

Oh, wow.

And we also have.

How many founders are there?

There's six of us.

Six of you.

Yeah.

And

Bradley Horowitz, he's like our big muscle where he worked at Google for a very long time, time, was a VP of product.

He like helped, he led the team that developed Gmail and like a bunch of other products that we use all the time.

Wow.

But he has like incredible investing, like expertise in the angel investing world.

And so we're bringing all these people together who really care about just making and particularly investing in companies that are building their products in a way that keep the well-being of the user in mind.

So as we're, whether it's a wellness company or not, if they're building their product with this like compassionate design, that they're really trying to think, okay, how is this going to affect the human mind?

And as we build it, you know, we want to make sure the platform is still fun.

It still provides whatever service it's going to provide, but let's make sure we're not harming the human mind in the process.

And

I think, yeah, that's that's where Wisdom Ventures exists.

It's like our, basically our thesis is that compassion is good business and we're just out to prove it.

So do do you guys raise money or do you guys put your own money in?

I mean, all of the partners are invested, but we also raised, I mean, we raised 10 million for our fund one.

And we've been investing primarily in pre-seed, seed, sometimes series A, and just companies that we come across that we find.

And we're like, whoa, that's a fantastic mission.

A good example, there's this company called Better Leave that I really love.

It's a bereavement company that tries to focus in on that end of life moment, right?

When someone has a family member or someone they care about who's about to pass away, sometimes that process of passing away can take like a year or two years.

And not only will it be so mentally and physically difficult because you're trying to care for the person that you love, but there is a ton of legal aspects, insurance, right?

There's not only mental health care for yourself, for the person, there's tons of stuff.

And what this company, Better Leave, does is it brings together all those things you might need so that that whole process isn't as stifling and burdensome on you, on the person who's helping, doing all the caring.

And you just pay, you know, you pay a particular monthly fee and you get access to all of the resources possible that can just help streamline that.

Because often when someone passes away, you're just like shocked at the end of it.

And you're like, oh my gosh, I have all these things I need to take care of.

Like, what do I do with debt?

What do I do with insurance?

What do I do with this?

And this just makes all of that easier.

And to what level, what stage are they at?

I mean, they're servicing people right now.

They're active.

So it's, you know, you can, I think you can go to betterleave.com and get their services if you need them.

Are you the spokesperson right now?

I talk about them because they're, they're sort of like the clearest example of, yeah, of just like compassion and action.

Like that's, you know, it's such a crappy process.

Streamline it.

Yeah.

Make it easier for people.

So how much time are you spending on that?

A good amount of time.

I call it Venture Capital Tuesdays.

Really?

And Tuesdays and Thursdays, I'll spend a ton of time just like, you know, in these meetings, seeing founders, trying to, you know, just, just do whatever needs to be done.

Yeah, we hear a lot of pitches and

we make, you know, so as a general partner, I do, you know, a mixture of the fundraising work, sort of helping create the investment structure, hearing the pitches, making decisions.

And it's nice.

It's with a group of people.

Like, honestly, I feel like I'm getting a free MBA

from learning from these people.

I think you've got a great team with you, too.

Yeah.

So we have a bunch of people who are, you know, just super experienced in this world, but there's also like the heart and the mission.

And I feel like, I think compassion can be, is good business.

Like I've been really inspired with the clothing world and the way where, you know, once people started learning about sweatshops and all these things and fast fashion, people were like, oh, I actually don't want anything to do with that.

I want whatever it is that I'm going to wear to be much more intentionally created.

Yeah.

And I think we need to bring that energy into the tech world.

Totally.

Yeah.

So is that kind of like a big passion of yours?

Do you like the business stuff?

You like the

fun stuff?

Yeah, I, you know, I was always interested in the business world, but I'm glad that it all started happening once my mind was like stable and anchored.

You know, it feels like now I can make clearer, mission-aligned decisions and not just like be in it to make a bunch of money.

I mean, making money is important because you have to take care of your family, but at the same time, I don't just want to be in it for that.

I want to be in it to try to help people.

And you told me like you were like obsessed with like the wellness stuff, right?

So like, I love supplements.

I know.

I mean, I'm obsessed with all of it.

Like all the hacks and modalities and this and that.

So what is your day?

Like how do you spend your day?

Like give me like a day in the life of what you do.

Yeah.

So normally I'll wake up.

I'll either do a few hours of work and then meditate in the morning.

Okay.

What time do you wake up?

I need to know details.

Okay, sure.

I'll usually wake up at like 7.38.

It depends on like the traveling situation.

If I'm at home, I'll wake up a little earlier.

If I'm traveling, my body's like more tired.

So I'll wake up like at 8 or 8:30.

Then I'll get up.

I'll try to do either a few hours of work or just jump into meditation, depending on what the schedule is that day.

Yeah, you know, get up, go to the bathroom, brush my teeth, start meditating.

Always in bed, like in the morning.

Do you do that at a table?

Could you do that?

At home, you know, we have like a little meditation room, and I can just go in there and just meditate.

And normally, my wife and I meditate both hours together.

So I'll kind of check in with her and see what her schedule is because, you know, we'll be doing different things.

And then after that, I just keep working.

I'll either write in the morning, I'll make sure to drink some water, take some, you know, I've been really, really enjoying NMN and Resveratrol.

Like I've been, I love David Sinclair.

And so true niogen is NR.

Do you know what NR is?

Yeah.

Okay.

And it gets into your system.

Is it?

Yeah.

Oh my, I'm going to give you, I have, you actually have some in your gift bag oh that's so nice of you no no no it's i've been taking it for like five years i like uh one time david sinclair sent me a dm and he's like i love your stuff and i was like no way man i was like i love you thanks for trying to figure out how to keep us alive healthier for longer oh my gosh well i mean i i don't know much about that but i will tell you that if you are someone who's very into optimizing your health and your longevity and your energy and your recovery, you have to start taking true niogen.

Okay.

I'm serious.

And, like, I believe you.

I'm telling you, I gave you a whole thing.

There's green fat there of that multi-fat I told you about.

And there's also Metabolic Daily, I think I gave you for glucose

for your gut health.

That's what I gave you in your bag.

Okay, what else do you do?

Do you do any like sauna, cold plunge?

Yes, I don't.

I've been taking cold showers.

I don't have a cold plunge.

I'm thinking about getting to jump into that one.

Oh my gosh, you got it right there.

That's amazing.

I

do sauna.

That was like the big treat that my wife and I got ourselves.

We got an infrared sauna like that.

Oh, wait, my suka's covering it.

Oh, yeah, I see it.

Yep.

Yeah, I've been living in that.

You love it, right?

I think I do it at least once a day, anywhere between like 35, 40 minutes to an hour.

And I'm just sitting there.

At least once a day, did you say?

At least once a day, yeah.

What temperature did you, which kind do you have?

I have the, um, I forget the name, but it's where it's great.

It's like the type, it's infrared, so it doesn't get that hot.

I think the highest it goes is like 165 170 yeah

yeah they don't get that hot yeah

but it makes me sweat i'm like sweating bullets and it keeps me i think it's really helping me keep stay healthy really yeah because i love the sauna i feel like it's making a world of a difference and um by the way have you seen this i i was looking at it yeah okay so this is the this is from therisage it's a portable sauna red infra it's an infrared portable

i'm telling you okay i'm a girl maybe i like it that better than my other sauna because, well, I don't want to get my hair, my hair all screwed up

myself, but it gets super hot and you can watch like TV while you're doing that.

That's so cool.

I know, and I love it.

And it's a really high-quality one.

You were looking at that?

Yeah, it has like a little bit of a task.

No, I was totally noticing.

Yeah.

I've seen some videos about those.

But I think, yeah, the sauna, I'll do that sometime.

either after a workout or a little later in the evening.

I try to do my working out.

I love running, so I try to run run like every other day.

And I love it too.

It's so bad for your joints though, but

I don't care.

I love it.

It's the only thing that gets my brain like the endorphins going.

I know.

And I just feel like I feel mentally good.

I feel stronger.

I've been working a lot more on bringing in the, you know, the just building muscle and all of that.

But well, running will break down your muscle.

I know.

I know.

You're telling me the truth.

I know.

I know.

Believe me.

And I know it too, obviously.

And I still do it.

So I'm not any better.

And,

you know, I'll, the big thing that I've been adding to my life has been intermittent fasting.

I think that's helped a lot with just also staying healthy.

I've been, you know, I've realized that breakfast is not the best meal of the day.

It's just the worst.

Like, I just really don't eat it.

And that's, you know, just speaking for me personally.

So you don't get hungry in the morning?

No, I'll skip it and

I'll usually eat at like one.

And then I'll have dinner at like five and some days I'll, you know, I might have one meal a day throwed in there.

And I've been trying to bring in like doing, you know, a 35, 36 hour fast every now and then, like a few times a month.

Wow.

And that's been like really, I think particularly good for the mind.

Yeah, it helps with the focus.

That's what that whole thing is for that shot there.

The first time I did the 36 hour fast, I was like,

the week after, I was like, my brain is firing.

It is really working well.

You're foggy for the first little bit, and then you get sharp, right?

Oh, the first time.

It was so funny.

The first time we did it, my wife and I, I was like ready to give up at like 6 p.m., 7 p.m.

And she was like, you need to, you need to toughen up.

Yeah, exactly.

I'm liking your wife a lot.

I like the Sarah.

And I'm really grateful to her because without her, and now like I'm like, you know, doing it a little more than she is, but because she's also trying to do it like according to her cycle and all that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's been really valuable learning that for the both of us, that we don't need the same thing all the time.

You definitely don't.

Yeah.

But so you basically run, you do the weights four times a week, you meditate every day.

What happens?

Like, why can't, why is an hour not enough a day?

Why do you need two hours?

I think the idea behind it is that when you're sleeping, you are reacting a ton.

You're, you're literally like constantly reacting to the sensations on the body.

So for example, your conscious mind is, you know, it's asleep, but your subconscious mind is like totally awake like you can feel yourself when you're getting colder and you like cover up or you're too hot and you take the covers off or if a mosquito is biting you you're like swatting it while you're sleeping so your sensations are active the whole time but we're constantly reacting to them like I like them I don't like them blah blah blah when you wake up in the morning it helps sort of clean the mind of all those reactions that you built up and then in the evening you know you spent the whole day like working and talking to people and reacting so it's almost like you're taking a shower for your mind in the morning and another shower for your mind in the evening That's amazing.

I know I've kept you here a long time and I didn't even actually, if you can believe it, ask you any of my questions that I have written down.

Can you believe that?

Oh my gosh.

But I've really enjoyed talking to you.

And for the people who are living under a rock, where can people find your stuff?

Yeah, you can come.

I think the funnest place where I'm hanging out these days is Substack.

You can find me at youngpueblo.substack.com and young without, you know, miss dropping the O.

And also on my Instagram at young Pueblo with an underscore in the middle.

And, you know, you can just check me out in bookstores too.

My three books are in there and my newest one, The Way Forward, which I think is my favorite poetry and prose book that I've written.

So check that one out if you haven't.

It's my favorite, by the way.

So I really like it.

And I even dog eared some of it.

So

thank you so much.

Thank you for being here.

It was a pleasure meeting you.

Yeah, likewise.

This has been amazing.

Your energy is amazing.

Thank you yeah really oh my god that coming from you that's like a huge compliment you like make me feel so comfortable and so like the conversation i said a bunch of shit i'd never say really i really went into detail about the relationship stuff and yeah

it was really cool thank you