Episode 279: Colleen Cutcliffe: How to Heal Your Gut, Control Your Glucose Levels, and Speed Your Metabolism

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Greg.

So we're doing a podcast today with Colleen Cutcliffe, who is the CEO of a company called Pendulum.

And the reason why we're doing this podcast, just to kind of be completely transparent, is would you call yourself a microbiome scientific, would you say you, what would you call the company before I kind of go into my whole spiel?

And the reason why I'm asking is because the reason why we're doing this is your products are

so much different than the other products on the market.

And when I say that, is I have my own experiences with gut microbiome, with what it's done for my health.

It's been so incredible that I wanted to share this with my audience, with you guys.

I wanted to introduce Colleen because she is the inventor and the one who brought this whole thing to life.

And that's what I'm saying.

Because it is, it helps with so many different things, but I see it as a gut microbiome, I guess, supplement company.

Would that be accurate?

Well, we're really a biotech company at the heart of it.

So it is.

It's a microbiome, biotech company.

And the products that we have now come in the form of a supplement.

And so they can look like a lot of the other supplements.

But the way that they were designed, the way they've been tested, what they're intended to do have really been developed like a biotech company.

Yeah.

And like I said, you guys are going to like hear why we're doing this with Colleen today because it really did change my health and also a lot of people in my life and my friends who've actually seen a major difference.

They've taken, I was telling Colleen before, that, you know, people took their blood.

before using some of your products and after and they there was a significant difference in their overall their their their biomarkers were significantly better after taking your products and the reason why again i'm doing this is because it's so it's so congested the the space of especially anything in terms of supplements, microbiome, gut health, all of it.

And so it's very hard to like kind of cut through all the clutter and know what to do, how to do it.

And when I really kind of delved into the science and like all the science that you guys have done and how you guys have really created something that is so unique, I wanted to help promote it and have you on.

That's a long way of saying, thank you for being on my podcast.

Thank you so much for having me.

And I think the challenge that you're pointing to is something that we think about a lot.

And so I really appreciate you inviting me to come on because we don't get a lot of chances and opportunities to really help deep dive into what is different here.

But I think everybody inherently kind of knows that gut health is important.

And there's a lot of evidence that people have seen in their own lives and from their friends' lives knowing that if you have dysbiosis, you know, you can have all these issues that come with it.

And if you have a healthy gut, you have all these really nice benefits.

And so there are a lot of companies and people who are sort of taking advantage, frankly, of the fact that people really want to have good gut health.

And so there's just a lot of misinformation out there for all of the well-intended people who are just trying to be healthier.

Right, right.

When did it become such a trend or a fad?

Like, I feel like five years ago, we didn't hear that much about gut health or the microbiome.

And then something happened.

There was a tipping point somewhere where it became all the rage, where that was what everybody's talking about.

And when anything becomes trendy, everybody and their dog jumps on that bandwagon.

And then it's basically a free-for-all.

And that's what I feel happening.

Like I was saying to you, like all transparency, I get pitched gut health probiotics like on the daily, right?

And if, you know, I maybe I know a little bit more than the average Joe just because of what I do for a living and how I get, you know, I get exposed to more than maybe the average bear.

But if you don't, it's so so confusing.

Can you first tell us why, and let's start from the basics.

Let's actually, let's talk about your origin story.

Like how, who are you?

What's your background?

And then I want to get into why gut health is so important for your overall health.

Sure.

And I'm happy to also talk about why it's become, gut health has become so trending in the last decade or so, last five years.

Okay, so my background is actually pretty hardcore science.

Which is good, right?

I have a PhD in biochemistry and molecular biology from Johns Hopkins.

I did a pretty traditional postdoc at Northwestern.

And then I moved out to San Francisco where I worked for a pharmaceutical company.

We were developing drugs for Parkinson's disease.

And so that's where I sort of learned how drug development works.

And then I did what everybody does in Silicon Valley.

I joined a startup company.

It was a DNA sequencing instrument company.

It went through rapid growth and we went public.

And on the other side of that IPO, I started this company.

So up until starting this company, all of my work had been really in R ⁇ D and science and biology.

And so the reason why, and I started this company with two co-founders, we're all really technical.

I'm a biochemist, Jim is a biostatistician, John is a biophysicist, and we worked together at that DNA sequencing company that went public.

And the reason we wanted to start this company is because the microbiome, even though probiotics and yogurts have been on the shelves for decades, the microbiome is actually a new science.

And if you look on PubMed, which is like a repository for publications, and you see like how many publications were there about the microbiome over time, you're going to see a flat line at zero until about 2010, and then it starts to be exponential.

And that's because DNA sequencing allowed us to look at all the different bugs in our microbiome and on our skin.

And that's what's enabled the microbiome to be a science.

So now you can get out of all the same stuff that's in yogurts and probiotics on the shelves and start to really delve into the 99.9% of our gut that nobody has ever been exposed to before.

And so it's DNA sequencing that allowed the microbiome to become a real science.

The American Gut Project was a huge project where they looked at microbiomes of like over 10,000 Americans.

And that's where they discovered that your gut is so important for all kinds of things that go beyond just GI issues like IBS and IBD and start to get into issues like your metabolism, your skin, your brain function.

And so when that study, when that work came out, it really showed people how important your gut is.

And so over the last five years, I think people have really, a lot more data has been coming out, really continuing to build on that hypothesis.

And so that's kind of how we ended up where we are now, where everybody knows gut health is really important, but they're still using some of the same old tricks that were out there.

That's why I wanted to ask you.

So you guys, you created, or like what makes you guys exceptionally unique is that there's something called acromancia.

And that's a very unique strain that's never been put into a supplement form, correct?

Well, yeah, it's really hard to manufacture.

It's really hard to manufacture because everyone hears about about the say, I can't print lacto, blah, blah, blah, whatever it's called.

Like most other companies who do supplements or what's on the market, what most are using is based on that strain, correct?

There's basically two strains.

Yes.

So if you start.

It's too popular strain.

Exactly.

Okay.

So if you start reading labels, it's lactobacillus and bifidobacterium.

Yes.

That's like

rolls right off the tongue.

Yeah, it sure does.

Yeah, exactly.

So how did you figure out, like I put here, like why, like, I've heard you say, and I know it's one of the keystone strains for overall health.

How did you know that?

How did you figure it out?

And why hasn't anyone else prior to you in the space of gut health ever do anything?

Like, why did nobody ever like touch it before?

Well, first of all, because we didn't have DNA sequencing before, we didn't even know as a community that acromancy existed.

So even knowing about its existence is relatively new.

And even when

people now do know, like it became like such a, it blew up and it exploded.

Why now?

Like why did you guys figure this out and nobody else has figured it out?

Yeah, well the challenge is really in manufacturing the strain.

And in order to know why it's so hard to manufacture the strain, it helps to know like what is this strain doing?

Why is it so interesting?

And what it does is at the heart of having a strong gut lining.

And so like I have a wooden fence in my backyard and it has all these wooden planks and they're held together by glue.

And when I moved into my house the fence was super strong, the planks are really strong, the glue is strong.

But over time the planks started to, you know, the glue will start to weaken, the planks will start to weaken, a plank can fall.

Our gut lining is literally exactly the same.

We have these planks and we have this glue that holds the planks together and the glue is called mucin.

And basically what happens over time as we age, as we go through periods of stress, as we change our diets, even like as we travel, is that those

that glue can start to weaken, those planks can start to fall.

and the same thing can happen in our gut that is happening to the fence that you know we we all know about and what acromancia does it is the only strain that's known to literally live in the gut lining and all it does all day and all night is it regulates that gut lining it pulls the old glue off when the glue gets old it puts new glue on and it just keeps those planks strong and so what people had identified was that as you age as you gain weight as you for us women as you go through menopause there are all these different things that happen that cause you to become depleted in acromancia and when you become depleted in it you now can no longer regulate that gut lining and when a plank falls in your gut lining you got a whole host of problems that start to come out of that.

So how did you even know about this?

Like how did, like, if it was never even until 2010 or 12 even known about this, how did you figure it out?

Because I mean, I've never heard of it.

Like, how did you even start?

Well, the scientific community has actually been studying it.

So I'm not going to take all the credit for everything that's been known about it.

But the way we started was we basically said, we're we've always been super interested in the gut metabolism axis and the fact that everything that you eat after it goes into your stomach is metabolized by your gut microbiome and so there's such important things in your gut that are helping you with your metabolism that had never really been unlocked before so that's always been really our focus is how do we metabolize food in our gut microbiome and how can we help people metabolize food better and so when we learned about acromancia kind of being at the gut lining we were like this was interesting but there's like a long list of strains that were super interesting the key thing that we discovered was that if you take people who are obese and you compare them to people who are thin, you see that people who are obese are depleted in acromancia.

And then moreover, if you look at twins that are discordant, where one twin is healthy and the other twin is obese or has type 2 diabetes, you'll see that the healthy twin has a ton of acromancia and the obese or the type 2 diabetic twin has like very little or almost none.

And these are two people who are like genetically identical.

And so that started to give us a clue of, okay, well, if there's this sort of broad correlation where people are low in acromancia and that's associated with obesity and diabetes, and it plays this really important role in the gut lining, like maybe there's something to how it's working and helping people metabolize their food better.

And so that was kind of how we got started.

But there's other strains besides acromancia that are in the list of things that help you metabolize food, but acromancia is just really important because of that role in the gut lining.

So those other two strains are super popular.

Did it not show the same type of effects on obesity as acromancia did?

No.

Not at all.

So I want to know the differentiate.

So besides, that's a great one, though, obesity, that's in itself, like everyone's going to be buying a ton of it just for that.

So there's a whole correlation between weight loss, obesity, and acromancia that the other strains that you saw, I just want to make sure, did not have, right?

What are some other differentiate, like what are other things that differentiates acromancia from other strains that most other people are using?

Yeah, so first of all, it's that it lives in the gut lining.

Oh, and then just to get back to why it's hard to manufacture, where it lives, there's no oxygen.

And so, you have to create a manufacturing plant that end-to-end doesn't allow a single molecule of oxygen in, which, of course, is everywhere in the air around us.

So, that is one of the biggest challenges.

So, how do you create an oxygen-free, like totally oxygen-free environment?

And then, secondly, how do you mimic this like mucin layer, this kind of like sticky, gluey place where this guy lives in a manufacturing plant?

And so those are some of the really big challenges in how do you even grow this strain.

And so, you know, as we think about what its role is, that's what led to kind of the difficulties in manufacturing.

And then what's kind of emerged over time is that acromancia doesn't just play a role in helping you with your gut lining.

There's new evidence emerging that acromancy can also help stimulate GLP-1 production.

And so there was this really seminal study that came out last year, and it's the first study to ever show a strain can stimulate GLP-1 production, and that strain is acromancia.

And as many people might know, GLP-1 drugs are kind of becoming incredibly popularized because of their ability to help people lose weight as well as feel full and not, you know, want to keep eating.

And so it is incredible that acromancia is able to stimulate GLP-1.

You know, this is the natural way it works.

So for people who don't know,

what Colleen is talking about is that is basically Ozempic and Wagovi and all these very, very popular, they're diabetes drugs, but everyone and their dog, I feel, are on it for weight loss.

And so can you tell people how it works in like how it works?

Because I think that it's, there is confusion also how even Ozempic is working for people.

How is it making people feel satiated?

And how does this mimic it?

Like, can you just explain that?

I think a lot of people want to know that.

Sure.

Okay.

We'll do some little biology lessons here.

But do it in a layman service, please.

Yes, okay.

Okay, so what happens every time that we eat food is that your gut microbiome, your gut bugs, metabolize that food.

And what happens when it metabolizes that food is that it stimulates these cells called L cells, which are actually at your gut microbiome to produce GLP-1.

So a lot of people don't know this, but GLP-1 actually comes from your gut microbiome.

And so you eat food, your gut microbiome, all these bugs are doing their work and they're like, we just ate, stimulate GLP-1.

GLP-1 is a signaling molecule that has three really important things it does.

The first is that it goes out and it stimulates insulin secretion.

So that's essentially how your body metabolizes sugar.

And so it is the signaler that goes out and stimulates insulin production so that your body can start metabolizing all the sugar that you just consumed.

The second thing it does is that it is able to, and this is still kind of unknown how it does this, but it is able to send signals to your brain to tell you, we're full.

We just ate.

we don't need to eat again.

And so it sends signals to your brain to let you know like we don't need to be eating any more food.

And the third thing is it slows down the processing of your food so that that actually also gives you a feeling of fullness.

So it does all these things to help you metabolize the sugar that you just ate as well as to tell your body, we don't need to keep eating food.

And so what happens naturally is that every time you eat, GLP-1 levels go up in your blood.

It does all of this work of telling you, we just ate, we're full, and we better metabolize all this sugar.

And then it goes back down.

And then the next time time you eat it goes up and it goes down and that's kind of your natural body cycle and acromancy is the strain that tells the body let's release glp1 what these drugs do is they've made a chemical that looks just like glp1 the signaling guy and it is delivered directly into your bloodstream and basically it does all those same functions but the way the drugs work is you're you keep glp1 at a high level at all times and that's why it's so potent so quickly.

You're basically telling your body all the time, we just ate, we better metabolize all this sugar and we just ate we better not eat more food and so you don't feel hungry and you lose weight wow so basically is it working on people who those are like those signals are dormant in their body or they don't work as well and so if you bring in a ozempic or whatever it's basically accentuating that feeling.

Does it, does your body acclimate though?

And is that why you have to take more and more as you get used to the amount?

So first of all, those drugs were all designed for people with type type 2 diabetes.

So when we think about the spectrum of obesity, there's obesity, pre-diabetes, and then type 2 diabetes at the far end.

And so everybody's kind of on the spectrum,

somewhere on the spectrum.

And so people with type 2 diabetes, they really, they have lower levels of GLP-1.

Their cells, the cells that produce insulin, are not as responsive.

And so they really need these GLP-1s to help stimulate those, they're called beta cells, to stimulate those cells to produce insulin.

And they really need this GLP-1 because their GLP-1 levels are really low.

So they need that signaler to say, we just ate something.

And so they were designed for people with type 2 diabetes.

And actually, when we first designed our flagship product and identified acromancia, it was also for people with type 2 diabetes.

But it turns out that these are all the pathways that operate in our body.

And so they also work for people that don't have diabetes.

But to answer your question, the issue is that if you are that loud person, you know, with the mic sort of saying like, we just ate, we just ate, we just ate, eventually the receivers kind of of go deaf to it.

It's just like if you don't know what they're doing,

yeah, they just like tune you out.

They tune you out, and that happens in your body too.

So eventually, these beta cells are like, right, right, right.

And they don't actually produce as much insulin.

And so that's why you end up having to, you know, take it more and more.

So can people take acromancia instead?

Like, would it work as effectively as like, maybe not as, but if what if they didn't take Ozempic and took acromancia?

What would be the effects?

Would they still get the same effects, but maybe not as fast and severe?

And then then would you have to like double the dosage the same way you would with Ozempic?

Well,

the truth is you will never see the same impact with acromancia or something natural as you do with the drugs because of the fact that the natural way is to go up and down in GLP1s.

And what those drugs do is they artificially kind of keep it high for all time.

So the good news is you won't get those crazy side effects, but the bad news is you're not going to like drop all those pounds right away.

But what you will feel are those same effects.

And actually, we just did this study where we found that 90% of people in Acromancia have lower food cravings across all the different kinds of food cravings.

So carbs, fast foods, fats, and sugars.

Everybody had lower food cravings.

By how much?

90% of people had lowered food cravings.

It depends on what your starting point is.

And so the people that had higher starting food cravings actually had a larger drop than people who had lower starting food cravings.

But in any case, that food craving thing is a big part of the GLP-1 effect.

So you won't see the same effect as you do with the drugs.

But if you wanted to take them in conjunction with the drugs, you're basically going to have the drugs delivering GLP-1, and then you're now going to have your body delivering GLP-1.

And so you're kind of giving yourself extra amounts, in which case you might be able to play around with how much of the drug that you're actually using.

If you don't want to be on drugs, and maybe you don't have type 2 diabetes and you don't want to be on a drug for diabetes.

It's also expensive.

It's like $1,000 or $800 a month just to be on these.

crazy injections.

It's definitely pricey.

And you gain the weight back when you're off.

You gain the weight back when you're off.

That's right.

Well, because you're now no longer like constantly telling your body, like we just ate.

And you get hungrier.

Why do you get hungrier afterwards?

Like your body, like.

I think it's just a rebound effect.

You don't realize like you were always kind of that hungry beforehand.

Oh.

And so now that you're off and you've gotten accustomed to not being as hungry, now all of a sudden it feels like, oh my gosh, why am I hungry all the time?

Yeah, I'm starving.

Yeah.

But with acromancia, you'll never hit those that same kind of level.

But what you will be doing is to be allowing your body to naturally produce this GLP-1 molecule.

So you will be reducing your food cravings and you will be experiencing the improvement in blood glucose.

Your body's going to metabolize your sugars and carbs better.

And so it's a natural way for you to stimulate GLP-1.

And we know that people lose acromancy over time.

And so it's a great way to just replenish your system that your body naturally is supposed to have.

Right.

What else?

Okay, so is there any, you can't really, and you can't get it in food, right?

There's no other source that you can get acromancy except for in like this type of situation.

Well, Well, this is sort of the big mystery of where do you get acromancy.

Where can you get it from natural without any supplement or anywhere?

Yes.

Nobody knows, basically.

Yeah, there's never been a food found that has acromancia in it.

Acromancy has been found in mother's breast milk, so the theory is like that's kind of where it gets started.

And then we don't know where else you can get it from.

You can stimulate, like if you have low levels of acromancia in your gut, you can stimulate growth through different prebiotics.

So polyphenols and fibers can help stimulate the growth of acromancia.

So that's sort of the only only other way to do it.

I saw like grapes that have it, of course, because polyphenols, green tea, but it's not as potent, obviously.

I always tell people, like, it's great to do them in conjunction with each other.

So, if you can be taking, you know, the prebiotics feed the probiotic.

So, if you be taking the food and the strain itself, you're basically giving yourself the two pieces of the puzzle you need.

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By the way, are all these other companies now jumping on it or trying to do it or they don't have the access to it?

Like,

do you guys have the patent on it?

Like, how are people trying to copy you?

Like, how is it working?

Well, we have 22 patents filed and 65 pending.

We have invested a lot in patenting

strain and its use and the manufacturing of it.

And it's essentially illegal for anybody else to sell this strain here in the United States.

Oh, wow.

That doesn't stop people from trying.

So, all the same people, and what's crazy is that, you know, we see these popping up on Amazon, we send them to be sequenced by a third party, they come back and they're like, it's actually it's lactobacillus, not even acromancia.

And so, people are, because this is not a,

it's not regulated, but not regulated, so anyone can say whatever they want.

So anyone can slap any label on that they want and not even really have truth in the bottle.

That is terrible.

It's terrible.

And we spend a lot of time, unfortunately, kind of chasing down

this bad behavior, yeah.

But I guess that could be with lots of different things, right?

Because you can make claims, but anyone can make a claim.

And unless someone has the wherewithal or the time or the energy or the money to test it, then they, you know, they just don't know.

Yeah.

But I would say that for us at the core of the company, we've always been centered around building things that really help people in meaningful ways.

If you take the product and you don't have reduced food cravings or better energy or better metabolism of your sugars and carbs, we actually know that acromancia can reduce inflammatory markers like IL-17.

So if you don't have these benefits that you can feel after taking the product, we tell people like, don't keep taking it.

Don't take it just for fun.

Take it because you're feeling a benefit from it.

And so all I can say about all the hoax companies out there is that if you're taking one of those and you're not feeling anything, anything, it's because it's not the real thing.

It's not the right thing.

Yeah.

And then what would be the symptoms, like low energy, you said, cravings, all those things would be potentially the reason why people have those things is because they have a low acromancia level in their body.

Exactly.

The kind of things to be looking for are sort of first and foremost, you know, GI discomfort or GI issues, or if you've noticed that

bloating, pain, you know, gas, all of those things.

And especially if you've noticed that over time, you now have sensitivities to foods that you didn't used to be sensitive to.

That means something's changed in your gut.

And so kind of GI discomfort is sort of one of the first things.

The second thing is an inability to maintain a healthy weight.

So if you've kind of, and our metabolism slows down over time, but one of the big reasons our metabolism slows down over time is that we lose the strains that are helping us metabolize our sugars and carbs.

And so if you're having a hard time maintaining healthy weight, it might be because you're depleted in those gut bugs that are metabolizing.

sugars and carbs for you.

If you have food cravings and you're like, man, I never used to have cravings like this before.

Again, it's because you might be missing these bugs that are helping you send these GLP-1 signals to tell your body, we don't need to keep eating, we're okay here.

And then the last thing is really around energy.

So if you kind of have these post-lunch slumps or you're not sleeping as well or your workouts aren't as strong, you're just noticing that your energy is starting to fade, that's another signal that you might have lost these strains that are really there for your metabolism.

So this gut metabolism axis, when it's gone awry, it shows up with GI issues, weight, cravings, and energy.

Okay, because I take this, the metabolic daily.

Acromancia is in metabolic daily, right?

So, what is the distinct?

When do I take acromancia by itself?

When do I take metabolic daily by itself?

What's the purpose of taking one and not the other?

Like, what is the difference?

So, you're right.

Acromancia is in metabolic daily.

Metabolic daily is a formulation of five different strains, one of which is acromancia.

And metabolic daily is designed to help your body metabolize sugars and carbs because acromancy doesn't really function all by itself.

It has has other players that help it with this metabolism.

And so the full set of players are in metabolic daily.

So if I just took this, acromancia, and not metabolic daily, wouldn't it just be better to take this that has acromancia and it has all these other benefits that you're going to...

Like what I feel is like the reduced sugar cravings, effectively working carbs

more efficiently, all those things.

But if I'm getting, if acromancia has all that as part of the benefits, why wouldn't I just take acromancia?

Well, because it depends on really your gut and what you're depleted in.

So you might only be depleted in acromancy.

That's your missing link to this whole pathway.

It's like you're on a soccer team and you're missing the striker.

You're never going to score.

But it's also possible that you're missing a defender or two, right?

And so Metabolic Daily is the full cast that helps you do that metabolism.

The whole team.

The whole team is there.

And then acromancy is really the one that is, you know, the keystone strain.

And it happens to be the one that people are most frequently sort of depleted in.

So it's possible that all you're missing is acromancy, and you can get all those benefits just by giving yourself back acromancy.

Or it's possible that you need a lot more of the strains that are in this pathway, and then you would take Metabolic Daily.

And then we actually have another product, which we're not going to talk too much, I guess, about today, which is Pendulum Glucose Control.

I do love that one, by the way.

That's the one that I take.

That's okay.

But the reason why I didn't even bring it up yet is it's more expensive because it's way more potent, right?

Yes, it is the clinical grade version that has been tested in people with type 2 diabetes.

It's basically exactly what is in Metabolic Daily, but at a really high dose.

So it's more expensive.

It has to be refrigerated.

And it really was designed and intended for people with type 2 diabetes.

Yes, I was going to say.

So basically, the way I was even sold on it back when was metformin.

For those, metformin is like this longevity drug, I guess, that I don't know.

People have been talking about it forever, but it's a drug.

And everyone I know is on it.

So of course, all these people are on it.

I'm like, okay, I'll be on it.

You know what I mean?

Like, I didn't, that was years ago.

I took myself off of it.

And a lot of people were like telling me afterwards, oh, yeah, I'm no longer taking metformin.

I'm taking glucose control.

I substituted it.

It's like the natural form of metformin.

By the way, this is like, I'm asking these questions as if, like, this is not, this is me literally just asking you these questions.

Like, this is not kind of one of those things where I'm just like giving you like softball things.

I really want to know: is glucose control like a metformin?

Does it work as well?

What's the, tell us about the longevity properties?

You talk, you're the expert.

Well, one of the most interesting things that's coming out around longevity and healthy aging is that one of the biggest indicators that tells you if you're going to be

aging healthy is how your body metabolizes sugar.

Right.

So.

That's a big topic right now.

That's a huge topic right now.

And it's true because as we age, we know, I mean, you don't need a doctor or scientist to tell you this.

We all know that we don't metabolize sugar as well.

Right.

Sugars and carbs start to become the big, big-time enemy.

And so, you know, people who are aging in a healthy way are able to continue to metabolize sugars and carbs efficiently and effectively.

And that's why these drugs, which are intended to help people with sugar metabolism or people with type 2 diabetes, end up being used for longevity purposes.

It's because what they're really doing is they're helping you metabolize your sugars and carbs better.

And so you're right, metformin falls in that camp.

You know, I think GLP-1s were first discovered by biohackers for that purpose.

We were first discovered, pendulum glucose control was first discovered by a bunch of biohackers for exactly the same thing.

They were slapping on continuous glucose monitors, and I will throw myself-I'm not a biohacker, I'm like a wannabe, but like I wore a continuous glucose monitor and tracked what pendulum glucose control did for me.

And so did my friends, that's how I knew about it.

Yeah.

And so the heart of like, do these drugs work for longevity is because they're helping you metabolize sugar.

And so this trials that we've done with metabolic, or sorry, with pendulum glucose control, were in people who were already taking metformin.

So it has an even additive benefit on top of taking metformin.

And so what's unclear is whether it's additive because it's functioning totally differently or if it's additive because you're just now got your metformin and now you're just almost like you're taking more metformin.

One of the biggest side effects that people experience with metformin is GI distress.

And so what we found was that people were telling us, oh, when I'm on glucose control, I can now take my full metformin dose.

And like, now I'm really like a rock star in metabolizing sugars.

Oh, wow.

So people are taking both of them.

There are people who are taking both of them.

Oh, I was under the impression, or I think, like people I know just didn't do it anymore and just started taking the glucose control.

Well a lot of people don't really want to be on drugs.

No.

And so their goal, well some people don't really mind.

And so their goal is to kind of titrate down or get themselves off of the drugs.

And so that's where they start to use, they're starting to use our strains and formulations.

But a lot of people, they don't mind taking drugs and our formulations on top of that.

And so they're just double downing.

They're double downing.

So you take the glucose control, you said, and what has it done for you?

I take the glucose control.

I'm a big nerd, and so I did an experiment on myself.

And I also think...

You should be a nerd.

It's your company.

I think the chefs should always eat their own cooking.

They should.

And so in the very early days, I slept on a continuous glucose monitor and I took pendulum glucose control and then I also took placebo.

So I did kind of a placebo trial on myself.

Oh, okay.

And I made myself blinded to all the CGM data until the very end of my little study.

But I knew when I was on glucose control because my workouts were stronger.

For me, it showed up as better energy.

And so my workouts were stronger.

I could go for longer.

And it was just like, oh my gosh, I have better energy.

And then I kind of didn't get those post-lunch slumps that I normally get after eating lunch in the middle of the day.

Like if you want to get information from me at 2 p.m.

versus 9 a.m., you're getting like a much dumber Colleen at 2 p.m.

Tell me about that.

And so I noticed that I was, you know, not as smart as at 9 a.m., but definitely smarter than I used to be.

And so for me, I knew when I was on the product.

And then when I unveiled my continuous glucose monitor data, I was like, holy smokes, this is what's, this is why.

All of my peaks and spikes, everybody, every time you eat gets a glucose spike and then a crash.

All of them were minimized when I was on the product versus on the placebo.

And so then I just, I mean, I don't have pre-diabetes or type 2 diabetes, but I am aging.

And I do know that my body can't metabolize sugars and carbs as well.

And so I'm on that full formulation because I saw that data and I know what it does for me.

And I also, you know, it helps with satiety, like not having cravings.

So you don't have cravings at all on it?

Well, I don't want to say I don't have cravings at all, but I will say that.

But it's better.

It's better.

By what percentage would you say

it's improved?

For me, it's really about certain foods.

So it's almost like binary.

So I really don't have sugar cravings.

I do if you want to put alcohol into a bucket of cravings.

I definitely still enjoy my alcohol.

And I am a little bit of a sucker for salty snacks.

But that's my thing, too.

I can have a cake out on my countertop and walk by it every day until the cake has been finished by other people.

And not even at all be.

No.

Really?

Yeah.

So it's pretty, like, I don't have sugar cravings anymore at all.

So what is the difference in potency between the glucose control, which has to be refrigerated, and let's say the metabolic daily that does not have to be refrigerated?

Yeah, so it is about five times more potent.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

So it's got a lot more stuff in it.

Yeah, and it's more expensive, but I heard it's because it's also very expensive to make.

It is very expensive to make.

And so...

It's not the actual strain super expensive.

The strains are, I mean, we had to build a manufacturing plant because nobody else could grow these strains.

And so

over time, we will figure out how to lower the cost of these strains.

And actually, we, Acromancia is a good example where after we launched Acromancia, we sold out.

People were really loving it.

We actually didn't even realize how many people were looking for Acromancia.

If you take a gut microbiome test, a lot of times it shows up kind of at the top.

Oh, you're low on acromancia.

So, we really kind of put our noses to the grindstone.

We're like, we have to figure out how to make acromancia less expensive.

So, when we launched acromancia, it was I think at like $85 a bottle.

And then we've been able to lower the price because we've been able to figure out how to grow acromancia at a at a lower cost.

And so now I think that, actually, this is terrible.

I don't even know what we sell acromancia for.

I think it's like $59.

I thought it was $49.

Yeah, it could be $49.

Yeah, I don't know.

I don't even know.

But anyway, it's much less.

It's a subscription-based model, guys.

So basically, what happens is you buy it and they bring it every 30 days, you get replenished, right?

That's basically what happens with me anyway.

But

it is much more cost-effective than the glucose control.

And also, Metabolic Daily is almost the same price as acromancy.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

It's much more affordable.

It gets below the $50 price point.

And I think for a lot of people, as I said, it just depends on what you're low-in.

And the truth is, I might be able to get away with Metabolic Daily, but I just haven't.

You haven't done it yet.

Well, you're the owner.

I would hope that maybe it's being the CEO and founder, one of the founders.

Maybe you can take your own product.

I think that that makes sense to me.

What else is in the glucose control?

Is it the same ingredients exactly as the Metabolic Daily, just five times more potent?

Yep, exactly.

And it has acromancy in it.

And it has acromancy.

So that means it has five times the amount of acromancia.

It has, yep.

How much acromancia is in the acromancia?

Like, how much is in this one?

That one has 100.

And I believe that there is...

This is terrible because we have to play this game of trying to guess.

So all of these products have a two-year shelf-life stability.

So now we're going to get into like

quality control.

So everything has a two-year shelf-life stability.

And what we want to put on the label is the amount that you would be taking if you were taking it at the two-year time point.

So actually, when you first get this bottle, you're actually taking more because what happens over time is it loses

over time.

And so what's on the label is sort of like if you took it at the two-year time point, we're guaranteeing that you're going to get at least that amount.

So you're actually getting more at the beginning.

With everything?

Like, that's what they do for the best.

That's what we do.

Not all supplements do that, but that's what we do because we are basically guaranteeing you're getting at least that.

And you're likely getting more than that.

And if you are on the every 30-day model, you're definitely getting multiples of that.

So, at the end of the day, I'm actually not exactly sure if it's two or three X, you know, more acromancia than there is in here.

There is more acromancia in here, right?

In the acromancia.

In the acromancy, the pure acromancia pill.

So, I'm taking both, like I told you, but that's very interesting.

I didn't know that, how that would work, like that.

So, then my other question, I have like a few other questions, if you don't mind.

Yeah.

So, how do you check someone's metabolism?

Like,

what's the biomarker?

I mean, I I know that with the glucose control and metabolic, I mean, with them, you can see certain biomarkers shift and change.

But with overall metabolism, how do you know if your metabolism, like that's a very arbitrary thing, right?

So it says here on the bottle, it says optimize metabolism with metabolic daily, right?

How can you really check to see if your metabolism is better on day 90 versus day one?

Yeah.

Can you check that?

Yeah, you're so the way that we measure metabolism is A1C and your blood glucose.

And that's why like when you, people with type 2 diabetes are basically at this end of the spectrum of their metabolism kind of being totally disrupted.

And so your metabolism is sort of slowing down as you go into obesity, pre-diabetes, and then it's like really, really messed up once you have type 2 diabetes.

And so the kind of gold standard measurements of metabolism are what is your hemoglobin A1C and what is your, you know, what are your blood glucose spikes and then kind of what's your fasting blood glucose level.

And so those are kind of the the hallmarks of metabolism now not all of us are like going in and wanting to get our a1c measured and our blood glucose spikes and wearing a continuous glucose monitor and all that um so there are a lot of soft ways in which you can know you know not necessarily those hard end points through your blood work but there's a lot of soft ways that you can know that your metabolism is improved and it's basically just the opposite of when you know your metabolism is slowing down so right again it's like you know if you have a particular portion size your body is able to metabolize it faster you don't go get this like really high spike and then this crash so you don't get exhausted once your body's like crashing off of that sugar.

You are able to, you know, so that's really around the sustained energy, and you're able to eat the same portion size and not gain weight.

And so it's really this, you know, all the things that we know that we have to do as our metabolism slows down.

Oh man, I have to eat less food now in order to maintain the same weight.

Your metabolism is slowed down.

And if your metabolism stays the same, that means you get to eat the same amount of food and you stay the same weight.

And so that's, those are kind of the markers that you don't need a blood worker to tell you.

Exactly.

It's more like basically tracking your own lifestyle yeah and common sense like well do you feel bloated do you feel do you have inflamm if you have inflammation whatever i guess inflammation is a different one but bloating or energy or all those things that you don't take a test for you just you know yeah you know right and that's what i think is sort of the beauty of these products is that you know you don't you can go take the blood test and of course you know people and i know people and i'm that person too which is right we did the you know we got the blood work done to prove to ourselves that I saw a difference in my numbers.

Yeah.

But you don't have to.

Like you will experience these benefits to your point.

You kind of know.

Yeah, you do.

I'm super excited to share my latest health obsession with you guys.

It's called Metabolic Daily by Pendulum.

Metabolic Daily is a powerful multi-strain probiotic that really improves your metabolism, reduces your sugar cravings, breaks down carbs more efficiently, and sustains your energy.

I've been taking Metabolic Daily for a few months and it's unbelievable the results I've seen.

Not only do I never struggle with my cravings, but I'm seeing a huge improvement in my body composition from breaking down carbs more effectively.

I love penaltin because they are really disrupting the probiotic market with clinically studied strains that aren't available anywhere else.

They were founded by PhD scientists and are backed by the Mayo Clinic and Hallie Berry, who recently became their chief communications officer because of the results that she's seen.

They're the only company with, I think I'm pronouncing this correctly, it's called Acromancia, a next-generation strain that's called the Keystone strain for gut health.

You can get it as a single strain or in Metabolic Daily.

Plus, you guys can take 20% off your first month of any Pendulum product membership with this code, Jen Cohen.

So go now to pendulumlife.com and use my code at checkout.

Trust me, you will feel incredible.

So that's the thing.

Like

I started this whole podcast by saying that you guys are like a notch above all these other companies out there who are basically going out there and and promoting gut health and microbiome.

Like the science is behind, you're doing something incredibly unique with Acromancia, which is something that no other company I saw was doing.

And like you're, if, like I said, people, you guys, if you want to, you know, do the testing of taking your blood before or after

90 days, 60 days, whatever, I think everyone would be surprised and pleasantly surprised at what they actually see.

Like, so let's get into the quality control because obviously that's what we were talking about.

So how are you able?

I mean,

you said you have your own manufacturing plant because no other manufacturing plant was able to actually even create these drugs, right?

Right.

So wow, like what a production.

How many people are there now?

Like what's how big is this biotech company now?

Well, our company is not that big actually.

We're still a startup, so we have less than 100 people in the company total.

Okay.

And San Francisco is your home office.

San Francisco is where our home office is.

It's also where the manufacturing plant is.

And so it is

still a small but hopefully growing company.

Mighty.

Every head count, every head counts, everybody is like a major contributor.

We have an awesome, amazing rock star team.

So we do all the manufacturing, but when it comes to quality, and we have a quality control team, of course, but when it comes to quality control, you really need third parties to validate your product.

And so.

I'm glad you said that.

It's a third, but that's what I wanted to say.

So I'm happy you're bringing that up.

Yeah, you really need to send it out to other people that are at these certified labs that will double check that, okay, this is the viability, that is the, you know, count, this is the product that you're saying it is.

And so we really use third-party validation and third-party numbers in order to create kind of these certificates.

Every bottle has a certificate of approval associated with it and has these third-party quality validations and measurements.

So all of that is available.

That's great.

I mean, is there anything I forgot to ask you about that's important for people to know in terms of gut health, microbiome, probiotic, immune system, anything besides what we've talked about?

Well, I'd love to hear your experience.

Okay, yes, right.

Okay, so that's really funny because I actually did something on my story the other day.

Or maybe it's like, I guess when they see this, it'll be the other day.

I did it today, actually.

But I was telling someone that I work with that I was actually taking this and she was asking me, oh, what is it, blah, blah, blah.

And I have seen two things that I, and that's interesting because I do a lot of stuff, right?

Like that's the problem with a a lot of people who do a lot of things, right?

I do the saunas, the cold plunges, I exercise every day, I eat very healthy.

So it's very hard to really see a significant difference when you're doing all the things, right?

And so that's really, that's what I want to first say, right?

But if I were to really like think about how it's affected me in a real way, I would say it is the sugar cravings and I would say bloating and in terms of carbs, like efficiently, working with carbs more efficiently.

Those are the things that I would see that I saw a bump in, which is why, again,

I was a fan.

I am a fan of this, because like I said, I get hit up all the time with probiotic companies.

I don't know one from the other, right?

Like a lot of times, I'm like, I don't know.

I take so many things.

I don't know.

I don't notice.

This I did see, and like I did feel better with.

And like, I did see in my, in my blood, that, in my biomarkers, a difference from day one to day day 60 or day 90, actually.

The point is, which is why, and I think, which is why there is traction with your brand.

And I think when people who are more knowledgeable, like not these Yahoos on social media who are saying whatever, I mean, maybe I'm a Yahoo on social media.

I could very well be to some people, but I think a lot of people with a medical background, who I'm very good friends with, were really huge advocates for it and were taking it themselves.

That's a big key indicator, right?

When people who are knowledgeable, who know the science, who also are very exposed to a lot of brands and they're actually

basically believers and are adopters and taking it, in my opinion, that's what it is.

I'm very discerning of who I take advice from.

And the people that I do take advice from really were like, yeah,

this is different.

This is way more,

this is science-backed.

This actually is a product that has so much quality control.

They're different.

They have a different strain.

And so, to answer your question, that's how I felt different.

I felt the sugar cravings.

I felt like less bloating.

And overall, I just felt a little bit better.

Yeah, that's great.

And I think that, you know, it really is, this sugar cravings thing is so crazy.

So it's funny we both kind of experienced that reduction.

And I still have them.

Don't get me wrong.

Yeah.

But they're like maybe like they are suppressed more than they would normally be.

Well, and I think it's so important because a lot of us, a lot of people feel guilty when we have cravings and then we break and we succumb to those cravings and we just think like, oh man, I wish I had more willpower or I shouldn't have eaten that.

And you feel bad and you kind of get onto this bad kind of mental cycle about it and really beating yourself up about things.

And the truth is that your body has systems in place that help you kind of not have those cravings as badly.

You're right.

We're all going to have vices and actually I think vice is good to have.

That's a separate conversation.

Right, right.

And it's part of a human.

It's human.

Like we're not, we all have like, you can only like have that much discipline and willpower 100% of the time.

Right.

But if there's a tool that can help you naturally reduce those cravings, it just sets you in a totally different mindset.

You can feel really positive.

I take my glucose control every morning.

And for me, it's almost like a part of starting my day, which is, okay.

It's a new reset.

It's a new day.

And I'm giving my body what it needs to help me get through this day, you know, as guilt-free as possible.

Well, that's the thing.

Like, I think it's just about like having, it's not perfection, it's progress.

No one's expecting anyone to be perfect, but if it, if it just bumps you a little bit, it's better than zero.

And, like, I'm very much on like habits and rituals and morning routines and all that night routines, blah, blah, blah.

This is just part of my routine now.

You know, I take very few supplements, almost none.

I take vitamin D, I take omega-3.

I take actually both of these, acromancia and the metabolic daily, and I take and I take triniogen, which is an NAD precursor.

That's basically what I take.

And I've been taking those for a a very long time.

Very few times do I you know even think about adding more to the supplement plate.

But this was something that that's why I wanted to share it because I think there's such added value.

And if people if people can improve their health just a little bit,

it's worth it, right?

Absolutely, absolutely.

And I will tell you what I take pendulum glucose control and polyphenols.

So remember

we talked about how polyphenols can boost acromancia levels.

We actually did a study where we looked at a bunch of different polyphenols and picked three that specifically work with our acromancia.

And so we have a polyphenol formulation.

So I take the polyphenol.

Yes, and so it's pomegranate, green tea, and grapeseed, polyphenol blend.

And so I take that with my pendulum glucose control just to like boost the acromancia level.

So it's something like an

addition to just taking acromancia.

So, and we're...

Why want you to take the acromancia?

with the glucose control.

Like take both.

Well, there was one point at which I was kind of of a lunatic.

I was taking all of them.

So I don't want to stop taking glucose control.

So that's my main problem.

I feel like I need to do an experiment where I just like switch off of it into something else.

But there was a moment where I was taking glucose control, acarmancia, polyphenols.

I was just like, you know, seven pills at once.

And then at some point, I felt like, okay, this isn't, I don't know that I'm really feeling anything here.

But the polyphenols have other added benefits besides just boosting acromancia.

And so that's why

that's what I'm doing.

And then we are getting ready to launch an omega-3, which is not a fish oil based, but a vegetarian-based omega-3.

And again, it promotes the growth of another, a different strain, which we didn't talk about,

anaerobutyricum holi.

So

what a mouthful that is.

They're all a mouthful.

You got to like go on to Google and like ask it to say it to you multiple times.

I was going to say, how do you even like say it?

So like it just like flows off the tongue.

Oh yeah, well I've been doing this for a decade.

That's true.

I've been saying these names for 10 years.

But in any case.

So for 10 years you guys have been developing this acromancia.

we've been around for 10 years and for the first eight we were doing all the data science the growing the strains the preclinical trials the clinical trials and that's what we were doing for eight years and before we even launched a single product so just for the last couple years you guys are now maybe more known but so for eight years prior you guys were just like in the lab doing all this

you were doing it all this too you were no i haven't no people haven't let me in the lab for a long time but you know we were doing the lab work and the manufacturing and these trials What are you doing?

Well, a lot of your job in a startup is fundraising.

Fundraising, yeah.

Well, raising money.

Yeah.

But I mean, I think even sort of this idea of how do you select the ones that you're going to move forward with.

And, you know, I wouldn't say, I mean, the science is super interesting to me.

And so I was much more involved in the R D side of things.

And even like designing our clinical trials, we have an amazing chief medical officer.

So I'm just sort of like support for all these things.

I'm not like the main person doing them.

But, you know, I'll tell you a funny story.

The company has always been premised and we want to help people.

Like, we're not going to put a product out that doesn't help people.

At some point, I was doing a fundraising pitch, and this firm actually brings in every partner.

So, when you pitch, you're literally pitching to every partner in the firm simultaneously.

It's only mildly intimidating.

Yeah, just mildly, yeah.

And so, this was before we had, we had done a pre-clinical trial, but we had, we were looking for funding to run this clinical trial.

And one of the partners said, well, if I understand it, you've figured out how to manufacture the thing.

You've got the pre-clinical that shows that it's, you know,

has has some efficacy.

Like, why don't you just launch the product and start building revenue now?

Yeah.

And I basically got on my soapbox and I said, okay, until we have clinical trial data and we have proof that these products are actually going to help people, we're not going to launch a product.

Effectively, what I told him was that I'm going to take your money.

And if we don't get the outcome that I want, we're just, that all is all going to go to waste.

We're just going to go back to the drawing board.

Wow.

Did they give you the money?

And as I walked out, I was like, oh my God, I'm so stupid.

Why did I say that?

They not only gave us the money, they led the round and they pointed back to that moment and said, We like to get behind founders that believe in doing something that's game-changing in this world.

And when you gave us that answer, we knew that you were the kind of company we want to invest in.

Really?

And so, it actually was, even though I was afraid it was a thing that was going to turn them off, it was the thing that got them excited.

I love that story.

Who was the company?

Who was the fan?

Who are the funds?

So, that's Sequoia.

That's Sequoia.

I was going to say it.

And that's like the biggest best of them all.

They're pretty amazing.

And Sequoia's behind like Google, like everybody, every main, like major Apple.

So you have Sequoia backing you, which is, by the way, I'm telling you guys, that's like major.

major.

They've been awesome partners because they really think big.

It's not about, you know, the small win or what you can do today to like trick people into buying your product right now.

It's about, are you building something that is going to really change people's health in meaningful ways?

And it's been awesome.

They don't normally, they've never invested in like a probiotics company.

So, you know, we really are a biotech company.

And like a company of your size in general.

Like that, to me, says, speaks volumes, I feel.

Well, Sequoia is a large investment fund, and they invest at every stage.

They invest, like, they invest in like a guy and a dog all the way through to, you know, I guess that's maybe you're right.

I just felt like I just know them for being like any company that's really like, that's been transformational in the world, like the Apples, the whoever, Googles, that's who, that's who's backing them.

Yeah.

So the fact that you got them as your backers for a probiotic company, it says a lot, I think, personally.

It's been awesome.

And to your point, you know, and they led you around.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Who's taking the time to really dig into

the next level products?

You and Sequoia.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Exactly.

Thank you.

Oh my God.

I'm in good company, at least, right?

Wow.

That's amazing.

Well, Colleen, thank you for being on this podcast.

I really appreciate it.

And this was very valuable because I, you know, I don't think many people know what acromantia is, the strain, how it could be beneficial, what's lacking

in their own body that may be causing some health gut issues that they can look into as opposed to doing like looking at the same, looking under the same stone over and over again and expecting to find something different, which is again why I'm really grateful that you came on.

Well, thank you so much for having me and giving me an opportunity to share how the products work.

I love it.

Come back again.

I will.

Okay.

Bye.

Thank you.

Oh, where do we find you?

Don't leave yet.

Don't leave yet.

Sorry.

Yes.

So you can find us at pendulumlife.com.

And for your listeners, we have a special code, which is JenCohen, which gets you 20% off of your first bottle of membership.

And then we also are on Amazon if you prefer to buy that way.

Oh, Amazon's always so much easier.

You can just click and go.

I know.

But when you join through our website, you actually get access to like beta products and new information.

And we share out actually these trial data and things like that.

So there's some added benefits to being on the website.

To being on the

amazing.

Well, thank you guys.

And you guys try it.

I'm telling you guys, if you have, if you know what's good for you, you'll try it.

I'm telling you.

Bye.