Episode 277: Heather Dubrow: The Real Housewife on the Complexity of Life Under the Spotlight

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Gresham.

So Heather Dubrow is on the podcast, and I really actually fell in love with her when I did, I did, when I felt, when I did your podcast, it was mutual.

We had a mutual in-love BFF.

We did.

We did.

And now, because of that experience, you are now on this podcast.

So thank you for being on.

You think it's because we're like East Coast Jews?

Probably.

Yeah.

I think there's like an automatic feeling of automatic connection because of that Jewish thing, the East Coast thing.

The vibe is very similar.

Did we talk about where we went to camp?

Did we play the camera?

No, we did not.

Where did you go to camp?

I went to Bucks Rock and Trails End.

Oh, I didn't know.

Okay, no.

Well, I'm a Canadian Jew, but that's still East.

It's still like not a West Coast California Jew.

And there is a big difference between the East Coast Jews and the West Coast Jews.

Yeah, well, I mean, I think a lot of people moved here.

Totally, but the ones who grew up on the East Coast are very different than the ones who grew up on the West.

And I told you that funny thing about that friend that went to college with you.

Wait, which friend?

Mindy Mead.

Oh, yeah, who I can't, I don't know if that's the same Mindy.

It must be.

I'm sure it must be the same one.

It's very strange.

I have to tell you, like years ago, when I used to do scripted television, and if anyone watches Real Housewives, and you've seen how they've shit all over my career for the last season.

I want to talk about that.

Yeah.

Being on scripted TV, it was a long time ago.

So granted, there wasn't social media or anything like that, but people treated you very differently than you know, than reality TV.

Yeah, it was like I like your show, I like your character, but when you're on reality TV, they know you.

So, they know your children, they know your home, they know where you, you know, had dinner last week.

It's it's odd, it's different.

Okay, fine.

I want to talk about that because that's I'm fascinated by what happens like behind the scenes.

Because, yes, when you see a show, I mean, that is you, and that's your who you are, and they, but how much of it is edited to a character, and how much is it really you being you?

All right, that's a good question.

So, in general, we have three crews, and our cast is, I think, smaller than a lot of the other casts.

Okay.

And not every franchise has three camera crews, which I didn't know either.

Some just have two.

So, we film a lot.

So, I was told once that the algorithm for our show is that every 30 hours of film that's shot, 20 minutes makes it to the air.

What?

Yeah.

So, if you think about it, I would never cry editing.

What I would say is, you know, when you're putting a show together, you tell a story, right?

Whether it's scripted, unscripted, whatever it is, you don't put in every scene, but something that might be important to you and how you feel and may have influenced

how you behaved, if it's not there, that affects you.

So like, I mean, let's say you have dinner with your family, right?

Yeah.

And your husband says something.

That's irritating, but it's irritating to you, but it wouldn't be irritating to anyone else, but you know it's irritating.

It happens more often than not, right?

And so you, they don't show that because it's not significant to this dinner.

Yeah.

But you look pissed the entire night, and it's like, oh, Jennifer is such a bitch.

She's always in a bad mood.

And you're like, well, you didn't show that he just said this, but they're not doing that on purpose.

It just wasn't sort of necessary for the story.

But it's true also with life, right?

Because

people see snippets of who you are in that finite period.

If you were to go to dinner, like if I were to go to dinner and my husband would do something that would annoy me, those people I would be with would see that.

Right.

But they wouldn't see what happened before dinner in the car.

It's the same thing.

It's basically a microcosm in a way.

100%.

But the difference is you don't have millions of people judging that you're a microcosm.

Exactly.

It's a very judgy microcosm.

Well, and so, are you so used to the cameras being on that you, or at the beginning, let's say, were you changing or kind of even subconsciously changing your personality because you knew you were being watched by cameras and people around you I don't think I changed my personality but I think I I was very disturbed about going on the show in the first place because I really wanted to act again someday.

Yeah, so talk about that.

Like, and we'll get into that.

Because when I was an actress, when reality TV started becoming a thing, it was very much looked down upon.

Yeah.

So first, remember, you know, game shows became really big.

That that took away time slots from

the show are we talking like i mean you know i did a lot of stuff in the 90s and the early 2000s and i had my twins in 2003 okay so i had four kids in seven years so i had like you know a good 10 15 years of being in the business and whatnot and you know working as an actress and a singer and all that kind of thing before i had my kids and then i had four kids in seven years obviously took a little bit of a break and was a stay-at-home mom i think of my life sort of in decades yeah that's what i want to know give us chronological for people who don't, like, they know you're a housewife.

Right.

But talk about like the whole or like how the evolution.

So you became a housewife in what year?

So let me see.

Ace was born in 2010.

So it was 2011.

Okay.

So like 12, 13 years.

Yeah.

So, and you were an actress before.

So it basically worked like this.

Like I'm from the East Coast.

I went to Syracuse.

I was a musical theater major.

I did a few episodes of Divorce Court in Florida.

It was like my first big thing and I had tape, you know, fancy.

Oh my God.

And so they, the producers flew me out to LA to work on this other show that didn't go.

But I thought, you know, let me just try it.

I can always go back to New York.

So I stayed out here.

I got a job at Disneyland.

I sang at Disneyland.

I had a 14-piece big band that I toured with for four years that we opened up for like some cool groups, you know, like Mel Tour May, Manhattan Transfer.

And we did corporate gigs, opened for comedians and whatnot.

So you're a singer?

Yeah.

So I haven't really sung in a while, but I was a singer.

And so that's what I did instead of waiting tables.

I mean I had odd jobs here and there, but once I got with the band, that's what I did.

And we ended up being the house band for the nanny.

Like instead of having a warm-up comedian, they had us.

And one.

You work for Friend Rush.

Like you worked for that show?

Yeah.

That is so funny.

Okay.

I know it's funny.

Everyone in the audience, at the studio audience, always thought I was related.

Yeah, you guys.

Which is funny.

Back then, you guys probably looked a lot alike.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And she was great, really terrific to us.

So anyway, while I was with the band, I was, you know, getting better jobs, you know, a little guest spot here, a little couple lines there, a better thing, TV movie, whatever.

And then when I left the band, I was doing a musical at the Kennedy Center in DC that I had got cast on, and I decided it was time to leave the band.

So I left the band.

I was working also as a stand-up comic because the musical that I was doing was about stand-up comedians.

I wasn't good.

I mean, don't get me wrong, that is a skill set that is of its own ilk.

But because I was playing a girl who wanted to be a stand-up, I thought it would be a good experience.

So I put together a little act and did some stand-up, and it was terrifying.

And I'm so glad I got to do it.

And then, you know, I just started getting better jobs.

Did you dance too?

I mean, a little, but not a dancer for sure.

Enough for musical theater, but yeah, no, not a dancer, dancer.

And then I ended up getting cast on this show called Life with Roger that I was a recurring character on.

And then I, you know, I did a bunch of shows.

I had a show with Jenny McCarthy on NBC, and I did a show called Stargrave You Mad, and I had a show about a big Italian family called That's Life with a bunch of really fabulous.

But you were a working actress.

I was a working actress.

And you were making a living doing that.

Yeah.

Okay, so then you stopped, you have your kids.

Yes.

Okay, and then how did the whole housewife thing come to be?

Well, when I had the kids, so when the, when the twins, who are my first kids, when they were, I don't know, two, like we had to pull the trigger on something and decide where we're going to live.

And so we moved down to Orange County.

And I was still keeping the dream alive, you know.

I mean, this was before you could create your own content.

Yeah.

There was no streaming, there was no YouTube, there was none of that stuff.

No social media.

No.

So you felt very out of touch.

And being a new mom is so isolating to begin with.

And then taking someone who was used to being on a set for 15 hours a day to you know being at gymboree

and doing all the things.

I mean, right?

Jimbo.

And so I I hated Jimbury.

I know.

I did all the things.

I was like, this is, but keeping the dream alive, I would do a pilot or two every pilot season and it wouldn't get picked up.

And I would sort of like be sad and relieved at the same time because I love my kids and I want, I wanted to raise them and be with them, but it was just a very hard, it was a hard period of time.

And I remember Terry saying to me, if I had a crystal ball and I could show you that like everything was going to work out in the end, wouldn't you be able to relax?

I'm like,

but you can't, you know?

And so then with your personality, like I can't see you just being a stay-at-home mom without having other

extracurricular.

I made parties.

I was room mom.

I was at the park.

I mean, I just did it all.

And so, I mean, lots of moms do this.

But, you know, I am honest enough to say I enjoy working.

Yeah.

And so the hard balance for me was I didn't want to leave them, but I also wanted to work.

So I think sort of life gave me, in a good way, what I needed at that time, which was to be able to be home with them.

So, even though it was like personally kind of upsetting sometimes, I wouldn't trade that time.

Right.

And then, what happened was when my youngest was, I started Housewives when my youngest was nine months old.

Oh, wow.

Yes, and I didn't want to do the show.

Terry signed the contract for it because

how did it come to be?

I need to know.

So, originally, it's a longer story, but what happened was

a couple of years before I actually got on the show, the year that they hired Alexis Bellino, they had contacted me because the way they find people for the show is through plastic surgeon's office.

They call matronies at restaurants, they call hotels and ask about clientele, that kind of thing.

So they had called me.

Is that how they do it?

Partially.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

That's how they canvass.

Okay.

It's like their version of headhunting.

At this time, Terry was a plastic surgeon in Orange County.

And we were building a house.

Yeah.

And it was like in the middle of construction.

We were doing this ground up crazy house.

And not the one we just sold, but like another one.

And so we were building this house and Terry says to me, he's like, hey, there's this show, Real Housewives of Orange County.

And it's like, you know, a fun show with women and whatever.

Are you interested?

And of course I'm like, this is before I had my fourth kid.

I had three kids.

And I was like, back on television?

Of course, yes.

So I interviewed with them.

I had no idea what the show was.

And I interviewed with with them and did the whole thing.

And at the end of the day, they thought I was to New York to be on Orange County.

Funny you say that.

I thought the same thing.

I actually thought you were New Jersey or New York like when I first

saw you because you will, you're like the antithesis of what I would expect in Orange County.

But I think that's what made it fun was the dichotomy of

it.

So anyway, they said I was to New York and I was like, okay, you know, whatever.

And Terry goes, oh, thank God.

And I'm like, why?

He goes, oh, they fight.

I go, how would you ever put me on a show like that?

That's terrible.

So then they kept calling and I said, no, they called once or twice.

I can't remember how many years in between this was, but then

we were pitching a show.

Me and some girlfriends were pitching a show about opening a restaurant.

And throughout our travels, we met with Evolution, who produces Orange County.

And that show didn't end up going, but they said, you know, we like you.

We like your friends.

What do you think about coming on Real House Size Orange County?

And we'll put all your friends on it.

And if it works, we can spin it off.

And I asked all them, and they're like, Yeah, I would do that.

I go, Yeah, but I don't see myself doing this.

You know, I don't think I'm like I have the right makeup for this and whatever.

And Terry was so mad because that now, a few years later, reality TV was reality TV.

And obviously, the landscape of television had changed.

And this platform is enormous.

So you can imagine what it would do for a plastic surgeon's practice.

100%.

Oh, that's probably the best.

That's the mecca right there.

Yes.

Yes.

And he had done done bridal plasty, other, you know, plastic surgery TV shows, and they're always like so good for your business.

So he ended up signing the contract.

So he was the one who wanted to do it more than you.

Oh, yes.

Oh, wow.

So were you like in the second or first iteration?

Were you the one of the originals on the show?

Like, pretend I'm a moron because I don't really watch the show.

Yeah.

So Orange County is the first housewife franchise.

Yeah.

That I know.

That's the original.

I joined in season seven.

So you were, so season seven, you, so you must have known about the show.

I've seen it somewhere.

Well, when I had tried out that first time,

season five or whatever it was.

Four.

Okay.

Three, four, four.

It must have been four.

It must have been four.

Maybe four.

I don't even remember.

But no, but then I knew about when Beverly Hills started because we were friends with Paul Nassif and Adrian Malouf.

So then I had watched it.

So then I understood what.

The show is about what the show is about.

Anyway, so he signs the contract and I was so angry.

And then finally I go, fine, if you need me to do this so badly, fine, I'll do it.

And then he got nervous.

So he showed me a scene of Tamara throwing wine on this other girl, Gina, and this whole thing.

And I was laughing.

And he was like, why are you laughing?

I thought you'd like run from the room horrified.

And I said, no, it's like a satire.

It's like a Christopher Guest movie.

I can do that.

Are you serious?

Yes.

So then, like, what was the time commitment?

Like, what was the contract time commitment at the beginning?

Was it like, well, take two days a week, five hours a day?

I don't remember it really really working like that.

I think it was more like it's this many weeks of principal photography and then there could be pickups and then.

And do they follow you around or do the plan things?

Like give us the bat, like the scoop.

It's, it's really, it's not like the real world.

Do you remember when the real world first came on and it was crazy and it was like, or Big Brother?

100%.

It's not that.

It's not like that.

No, it's not like that.

No one's like surprising you from a bush.

There's no hidden camera in your toilet.

Like it's not like that.

It's not like that.

No, because this is, I mean, listen, the show was based on, it's like Mrs.

Kravitz.

It's like someone peeking through.

Do you know Mrs.

Kravitz?

I do, I do.

Someone peeking through the curtains of someone else's house and seeing, because, like, wouldn't, aren't you curious?

Don't you see people on the show?

And you're like, I wonder what they're really like behind closed doors.

I think the challenging thing today is finding people that are really willing to show their authentic selves and their authentic lives because reality TV is so huge.

And I think it's it's hard some people want to create characters for themselves or things like that and that's when it doesn't work because you've got to be authentic and my you know the bad part or the good part about me is that I'm sometimes too sensitive and I don't think I'm not devious and I'm not calculating like oh if I say this and that like I'm just not and if you say something to me I'm gonna react the way I'm gonna react and sometimes it's maybe not the best way or is it the best well it's probably the best for television.

It's the best for television.

Because it's real.

It feels real.

It's funny because I feel like the most likable characters are the ones who are, again, like the Bethany Frankel, the ones who have like a bite to them that is more authentic.

It feels more authentic.

You feel that way.

See, thank you.

I don't like mean fighting.

No, I agree.

Which is my only big problem with the show is that I like the petty fights.

You know, in my first season, someone broke the bow off the cake of the party I was having and it became like a ridiculously large fight.

Hilarious.

What do you mean?

Like you said, like I had a bow on top of the cake, like a fondant bow, and one of the girls broke it off and ate it like in the middle of the party.

And so did you go up to her and say?

Someone told me.

And so you caused a whole kerfuffle?

Well, I didn't.

You know, my friend Dina, who I love very much, we've been friends for a very long time.

She goes, you see that girl in the red dress?

She just broke the bow off your cake ate.

And I'm like, stop it.

She did not.

Who does that?

That's like, kids know not to do that.

You don't touch the cake.

I see.

So, but was that something that was like no one instant, like she, like, no one, no producer said, hey, go tell her.

No, she's not even on the show.

She's my friend Dina.

Like

some random friend of yours.

Okay, so

we're getting too ahead of ourselves.

Hold on.

So then now you sign this contract.

They don't say to you, okay, so we're going to follow you for Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday.

I don't remember it being like that, to be honest with you.

I don't.

It was like 12 or 13 years ago.

I don't remember exactly.

Even now, how is it?

Like, do they stay?

No, I just, no, no, it's like you have, you know, principal photography is starting on this day and it's running till about this day.

Sometimes it changes a little bit depending on our trips or, you know, if a venue for like a final party, that kind of thing.

But pretty much, you know, that, you know, we work five, six days, five days a week.

You do do five.

So, and like you have a, you have a crew, but do they need to have things to actually?

So my fear would be like, oh my god, I'm not doing anything interesting.

So

everyone feels that way.

But what is interesting is the most mundane of things.

Binutia, yeah.

becomes so interesting i mean one scene last last season on the show so my daughter cat and i were gardening because i had these planters on the side i stupidly when i built this house i thought a gardening area would be good didn't think to i don't know ask someone who actually knows about gardening and sunlight and soil conditions what would grow there

it was a little bit of a fail so what i was growing didn't work in this planter and Katarina was like, let's plant flowers.

And I was like, great.

So my friends own this really beautiful nursery near us called Rogers Gardens.

So they came over and have you been to Rogers Garden?

It's so pretty.

So anyway, so they were helping us dig the things.

And so Kat and I are just talking, we're digging.

And out of nowhere, she goes, I think I'm going to take my lesbian flag down.

And I said, why?

And she goes, you know, I made a TikTok and it was in the background and I got these comments, whatever.

And it launched into the most beautiful, most normal mother-daughter conversation.

But it was a normal conversation.

And what I loved about it is one of the reasons that I know we're getting ahead, but one of the reasons, because I did five seasons and I left and I came back last season.

I took four seasons off, which equated to five years with the pandemic.

So I started again 10 years after the first time I was on the show.

Oh, wow.

So I started, and it was like, why go back?

And my feeling was, I have this huge platform.

We've done, you know, I'm very grateful.

We've done very well.

We've got books.

We've got, you know, supplements, skincare, you you know, lots of wonderful, lucrative businesses.

My desire to go back was to use the platform to try to start conversations in other people's families and show them

what our normal family looks like with kids of different genders and different sexualities and all of that.

So, what I loved about this conversation, because we knew we were going to talk about Max, because Max is,

she's bisexual, she had come out, I don't tell my kids' stories for them.

They do that.

But she had come out on her social media and whatnot.

And there had been all these amazing supportive messages and also, you know, sad messages from parents that are estranged from their kids and vice versa.

And, you know, parents messaging me that their kids took their lives because they didn't have a safe space.

It was heartbreaking.

So I thought, maybe we can come back and maybe we can help some people.

And when Kat and I had that conversation, it was so normal.

But afterwards, I said to her, I'm like, are you cool with this?

I'm like, you know, because if you're not, I can talk to the producers because she's a kid.

Yeah.

And she was like, no, do you think we'll help people?

And I said, yeah, I really do.

And she goes, no, leave it in.

This is who I am.

This is our life.

So that's really nice.

So there are moments and times where it can actually, it brings out.

opportunities to have real moments and that can actually be that can resonate with people and help people.

And I think it's interesting because when you think of the real housewives or any reality TV, you have like, there's a lot of misconceptions maybe about it.

And when I even watch things, I can't, I cringe because it feels so artificial and phony sometimes.

Well, if something feels artificial and phony to you, it probably is.

And that's why when shows, if you're watching our show this season, it really feels like when I was first on the show.

I didn't watch when I took a hiatus.

Yeah, why did you take a hiatus anyway?

It was time.

It was, I

think the culture of the show had just changed and it was time to step away.

But.

And how long did you step away for?

Four seasons.

So literally four.

So it's like four seconds.

But it was five years.

Yeah, okay.

You had the pandemic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

But I really, honestly, I feel like those moments are so important.

And, you know, I think some people watch the show because it makes them feel better about their lives because some people sometimes are a shit show.

And some people like to watch it because they want to aspire to something.

The house or the car or the trip or the clothes or the parties.

And it's an escapeism.

It could be aspirational.

It could be escapism.

It could be depending on who it is.

But I will say it's so funny, Heather.

Like, even the guy who was here before,

he's the most serious dude in the world.

And he's, and I was like, oh, yeah, blah, blah, blah.

You're coming on.

He's like, oh, yeah, my wife loves that show.

She loves it.

I'm like, it's funny how

everybody, like, it's such a, it's such a popular phenomenon.

Yes.

Like, it's beyond.

Like, there's crazy.

It's crazy.

Like, I can't believe how popular.

Like, I don't think there has been a reality show, except, of course, The Biggest Loser in the Fitness Space.

Okay.

Amazing Race was good.

In this world of reality that you're in, what has been bigger than The Housewives?

Nothing.

I mean, it's pretty up there.

It's a culture.

It's pretty up there.

And what's so crazy is, like, these huge A-list celebrities that are obsessed.

Everybody seems to be obsessed.

Obsessed with it.

Like, who?

Name the biggest celebrity.

Like Nikki Minaj.

Chrissy Teigen, Jennifer Lawrence.

I mean, there's so many people.

And they're like, oh my God, I love you.

Or what do they do?

I haven't met Jay Law, but I'm a fan.

Is that what happens?

Or do people like major celebrities come up to you and be like, oh my God, I love you.

I love your show.

Or what did they say?

Not with me,

but I've seen it happen with other people.

And I've been, you know, I guess I've been messaged and Rihanna said something really great about me last year, two years ago.

That's a good one.

She talked about me as a mom, how she really likes me as a mom, and she said I'm really chic.

I mean, she said some nice things.

And what was so funny was, so I have to pull pull it up, but it was like, Heather's really chic as a mom, and I love how she lets her kids be who they are, something like that.

So I put it, my kids and Terry and I, we have a group chat text, and I put it on there that she said that.

And they're like, oh my God, that's so cool.

And then I posted it and they're like, you are such a loser.

It's so funny how you could go from being so cool to such a loser.

Such a loser.

So quickly.

That is, listen, that's postable, right?

Because of all the people, that's a cool one to have.

Like, Rihanna is Rihanna.

Rihanna is a rock star.

yeah like legitimately a rock star you know literally literally rock star

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So then let me just get back to what else.

So the phenomenon is so like, are you stopped all the time, like in life, like just walking around?

Yeah, it's not consistent.

Okay.

Like we can be places.

When Terry and I are together, it's we're more recognizable.

Right.

Because, you know, obviously he's on the show Botched.

I'm on Housewives.

We're, you know, we have a brand.

As a couple.

We have a brand as a couple.

So that happens.

But there are some times where, you know, it's like your Madonna.

Like, it's crazy.

And there's other times no one could give a shit who you are, where you come from.

You know, no one cares about it.

They don't recognize.

Like, so in LA, do people give a shit?

Or they don't give a shit because they don't know what they do.

No, they do.

No, people, I have to say, like, people are very nice to us.

i've never had someone come up and say like anything unkind and especially i would say in the last few years

really like kind

you know thanks for you know this this helped me this helped my child i rebranded my podcast this past year also and i kind of like did an internal rebrand not that i wanted to change my brand because that sounds weird i didn't want to be a different person but i wanted to be more specific like when i started my podcast, like I think it was eight years ago, it was called Heather DeBrow's World, and it was like almost funny.

It was, you know, my agent said, you know, you should do a podcast.

I'm like, great plan.

What's a podcast?

I mean, I didn't even know.

And so I started it, and it was supposed to be because I was on this reality show, giving the audience a different view of me, maybe something a little more raw and fill in the blanks.

Right, a little bit.

Fill in the blanks, exactly.

So that's how I started it.

And it was fun.

And I had lots of guests on.

And sometimes I would have even like actors on on and personalities, whatever.

And what I've realized in the last couple of years, even before the pandemic and maybe it was turning 50, is that I am very interested in learning constantly, which I always was, but even more so, how to be a better parent, a better friend, a better partner, better daughter,

better everything.

And I'm not looking for perfection, but I'm just looking to do.

better.

And so anything that I can do, like I want to start conversations that is going to help someone because if I help one person I mean after I was telling you before we started about Terry's TIA and all that stuff

it was so crazy but so Terry and I kind of went on a stroke tour a TIA tour for a couple of days but you know people wanted to interview us and we did them all because his his hole in the heart was fixed he was good and we wanted to spread awareness and you cannot believe the messages I got but one in particular and I posted it it was just chilling and it was about her husband.

This woman wrote to me about her husband, and he was having these odd symptoms.

And she had just heard me talking about the signs and symptoms.

She was like, he didn't want to go to the hospital, like very similar.

Very similar.

And she made him go.

And he had an actual stroke stroke.

And he needed the clot busting medicines and the whole thing.

She saved his life.

And they said to her, she wrote this in this thing.

She said, all the doctors and everyone said, he's going to make a full recovery because of how fast you acted.

They said, you saved his life.

And she said, no, Heather Dubrow saved his life.

And I like, I mean, she saved his life.

But I mean, the fact that

the fact that I could affect one person's life by just telling our story and putting things out there, that's what I want to do.

So that's why I rebranded myself internally to be on a more North compass for, you know, how I want to live my life, how I hope my kids live their lives and friends.

And do you notice how you get older, your friend group gets smaller?

100%.

that's all part of that yeah and you know what i i used to worry oh they're gonna think i'm a bitch because i'm not friends with them anymore and i really try to elegantly extract myself it doesn't matter if you're not friends with someone anymore they need a reason and they won't like you i'm over caring about that because i know that that person wasn't good for me or i've i found out like who you find out who your friends are you know 100 are you friends with the people on the show with you i mean of course like you develop relationships i mean you of course, have different relationships with each of them.

But man, these relationships are very complicated.

You're friends and you become family and you're like sisters and you're coworkers.

And that's a lot of layers.

And you're women and there's competit.

It has to be competitive.

Okay, so funny that you mentioned that because I am not a competitive person.

And if you know me, you know that to be true.

I know that you're not.

You're actually, you don't seem that.

I mean, I know you a little bit and I don't get that from you.

you know why because after you did my show we started talking about how we were helping each other yeah next exactly what we could how can i help you what can we do for each other next and we like just loved each other but that's how i like to show up in the world and if someone has that energy and is right for me and vice versa like isn't that yeah it's naturally that's what comes out naturally yeah but there are people that are very competitive and i don't understand it because there's you know these are very like sorry these are trite but like there's room for everyone and putting out someone's candle doesn't make yours burn brighter it's not a zero sum game basically yes and so I don't understand when women don't get that well it happened but it happens more often than not yes because I think we're very catty and I think when people say oh no we're not women empowerment all this like women empowerment talk

a lot of it is hashtag worthy and very much the in the zeitgeist but people don't is it true but it's not true Okay, so when I was growing up, my mom, she's still left, but my mom was a great mom.

She did everything she could to the best of her abilities, but she was very like 1950s and like, don't tell anyone anything and sweep things under the rug.

And she was jealous.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Of you or of everyone.

Of everyone else.

And it would come subtly, but I didn't realize how much it affected me as a person.

But it would be like, if I didn't get the starring role it was like oh why did she get the starring role who's her mother is she on the pta or like why'd they get that job who's her dad where who did they know who wrote them a recommendation like everything was very jealous and it took me when i realized i was that way it took me a couple of years to really reprogram myself because that's not who I am inherently.

But I was so affected.

How can you not?

Because we're all a product of our environment.

Totally.

But to me, it's how you break the cycle.

So what I find strange is once you start getting a modicum of success, I don't understand why that doesn't immediately, I understand struggling, how it might be very difficult, because I've been there too, to root someone else on that's really doing well.

I hope that's not the case for people, but I, but I could get it.

But once you yourself have a modicum of success, how could you ever like not want everyone to be successful?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I know what you're saying because that's how you're, but you've, you've retrained your brain to be that way.

Yeah, I want, and someone once said to me, like, oh, are all your friends like pretty and successful?

And something, and I was like,

like, do you go out of your way to hang out with like unsuccessful people or unattractive?

Like, I feel like everyone's pretty when they're successful and happy.

I also think it's, I prefer to be around people who I admire and respect based on what they've done and who they are.

But there's a whole other like psychology about people not wanting, it's like the Schotten Freud thing.

I think I told Mary, like people like to be around people or like misery enjoys company.

I know.

I said Schatten Freud on the show this year this week.

I called them Shaden Freud bitches.

You did?

Yes.

Because people get pleasure out of it.

That's what it means.

People getting pleasure out of other people's misery or unhappiness because it makes them feel better about themselves.

But that sucks.

And like, it's like very easy to be a a friend to someone when the chips are on, oh, poor you, poor this, poor that.

But the hardest thing, the medal of a friend is to be friends in success.

That's the whole thing.

If, right, but that is not the norm, unfortunately.

But that's why you have to be friends with successful people because I believe successful people want to be around successful people because

it elevates 100%.

Someone knows

one of the girls said about me on the show something like, oh, she needs to be the.

people have been talking, asking me if I'm going to be moving to Beverly Hills Housewives.

I think I asked you that too.

Because we bought like so much real estate.

But

so they were giving it, someone on my show was giving an interview.

I can't remember who it was, but they said, would Heather,

how would she be on that show?

And she said, oh, I think she'd have, oh, maybe it was Emily.

She said, I think she'd have a problem not being the top dog.

And it made me laugh because, first of all, I thought to myself, I ain't the top dog on this show.

So I don't know where that's coming from.

Where is the top dog?

I don't know, but I think she was talking.

I think what she meant, and other people have said this about me on my cast, like that they feel like I need to like have the biggest house or have the most money or be the right, like I don't feel that way.

By the way, you throw the party and invite me.

You get the, you know, I, I'm, can't everyone have a big house?

Can't everyone be successful?

Can't everyone can, but I, again, people want to sometimes, like, people like to be around people who they feel are they're superior to to make them feel better, but that's a psychology of that's the psychology that's how they talk about me, but it's not true.

So, how do you like, how do you reconcile that?

Like, these are not friends, though.

Like, that's me, like, it's very that's that to me is not a friend.

They could be co-workers or whoever, but it's not, it's a very competitive, like, you get more.

If let's say, for example, you're getting more pressed than this person, I mean, it does become like a psychological, like, mindfuck a little bit, right?

Yeah, I don't, yes.

And the things that I get upset about about the show aren't that because I honestly

doesn't bother me in those terms because I truly believe that everyone's got their own path and everyone's doing their own thing and everyone's very different, right?

Yeah.

So we're not all going to be doing the same thing.

I mean, would it be weird?

No, I mean,

look, I've had a skincare and supplement line for many years.

How many years have you had it for?

Well, I mean, Terry and I have done skincare in some form or another for the last 20, but this one I think is the last 10 years.

What's it called, by the way?

Consult Beauty and Consult Health.

Okay.

And, you know, I don't talk about it that much.

They do well.

They're great.

You know, you haven't mentioned it.

I know.

I don't know why I don't show it.

Yeah, Consult Beauty, Consult Health.

You can go to heatherdebro.com, see it all, buy it all.

It's great.

It's all I've used for 10 years.

Anyway.

Gina, who's on my show, came out with a skincare line last year.

I am thrilled for her.

I asked her if she wanted any help, if she needed to know anything, like if I could help her at all, I am happy to.

That's what you do with each other.

There's not just one skincare line in the whole world, there's many.

And guess what?

There's many that are very, very successful.

It's not just one.

There's room for everyone.

There is room for everyone.

So does that mean, so Gina, how is hers doing?

Just now I'm curious.

You know what?

I don't know.

I mean, I haven't asked her, you know.

Do they have husbands?

This is how, like, how, like, how much I don't know, but do they have husbands who are also successful?

Like, have they made businesses out of the, out of the business?

Out of the platform?

Yeah.

Out of that.

Some, some do.

Because your husband seems to like knock it out.

Like between the spat, your show, the bot show.

Yeah, he was a very successful plastic surgeon

when I met him.

Oh, yeah, okay, right.

Because I met him when I was.

I think we're like 10 and a half years apart.

So I think I was 26 and he was 38 when we met.

And so he was.

already doing well.

He was already, he was like a fully formed, you know,

human with a big practice and the whole thing.

And then, you know, he did a TV show here, did a TV show there, whatever.

But truly, I mean, botched is basically a spin-off of Housewives.

Right.

Oh, right.

So whatever happened to the spin-off of you and your friends doing the restaurant?

So we filmed on the show a few times, but I have to say, like my friends, they're so sweet and I love them so much.

They didn't want to be on a TV show.

You know, it was fun taking the meetings because we'd we'd go to LA

and we would go to take the meeting, we'd get dressed up, and then we'd have lunch and champagne.

Right.

And then we'd go.

It was so fun.

We had the best time.

And they were all so kind about it because, honestly, when Orange County thing came around, I called each one of them individually.

I'm like, look, they said they'll do this.

I can't guarantee that.

I'm happy to not do the show and do a show with you guys.

Your friendship is more important to me.

And they were all like, eh, I'm never doing it anyway.

It was like, it was very much like that.

It was.

Yeah.

So then, how about the other housewives on like the New York, the Atlanta?

I don't know, all the millions of other ones.

Do you know all those people too?

I know some of them.

Like, I know a bunch of the girls from Beverly Hills, some just from life from years ago, some because I've met through, like, Lisa Rin and I were in acting class years ago together.

She was an actress too, yeah.

Yeah, Garcelle and I have known each other for a number of years.

And yeah, and Bethany, I've known for a long time, too.

I just ran into her in Aspen last year.

Our kids played together.

It was really cute.

And like when we go to BravoCon, or, you know, we just did,

what's it called?

Family Feud with the gals from Atlanta.

It was so fun.

It was so fun.

We had the best time.

And it was so great seeing all of them and their lovely.

And even the ones that I don't know, the girls that I didn't know, like we saw each other.

And even though we don't know each other,

you know each other.

Yeah.

And so it's like, oh my God, hi.

And it's great.

And I really do feel like it's a sorority, you know?

It's nice.

And, you know, you're only as good as your last episode, your last season, your last whatever.

And you kind of forget, you move on, and you run into people that used to be on the show, and you're fine.

It is what it is.

It's such a, like, I just, I'm fascinated by just the feet, like the whole phenomenon of it all, right?

And I think people are too, like you were saying, like filling in the blanks for people who don't necessarily know what they don't know, right?

And this is why I love having this conversation with you because like you're giving me like the skinny on this on the show.

By the way, you're so skinny.

This is the trauma.

Is this the trauma?

Well, first off.

You were skinny when I met you.

Yeah.

No,

I tend to run thin.

Yeah, you're pretty skinny.

But I haven't been, so I don't have a trainer right now.

Can you do cardio on yourself?

That's why I'm so skinny because I'm doing cardio and I'm not

because I keep my heart healthy.

So I always do my cardio.

So I've been going to Orange Theory, which I really like, but it's not enough.

It's not enough weights.

And so I'm looking for a new trainer, which you and Adam are going to help me with.

I'm going to, for sure, help.

First off, let me ask you, so you're naturally this skinny?

So, I mean, I feel like I've always been thin, but you know, my body changed.

It's so weird.

Tell me if this happened to you because you're so fit.

So thank you, but I used to be, like, if you Google me, so I had a really fat face.

A lot of missed that college and a lot of big.

Really?

You had a fat face?

Oh, yeah.

Because my body was voluptuous.

Like, I had huge, natural D breasts, small waist, and I had hips.

Okay, sounds good to me.

I had a voluptuous, cute little figure.

And again, like the freshman 40, that wasn't so good.

But so for the first few years of college, not so thin, but like normal thin in high school.

And then gained the 40.

And then I did pageants for a little while.

I can totally see you doing that.

Because in my day, the only way you could get on TV singing was Star Search or Miss America.

Not Star Search.

Were you on Star Search?

No.

I submitted a tape to Star Search and I didn't get in.

And it was funny.

I was on a red carpet for something and Ed McMahon was there and he hosted star search and so he came up to me with his wife and he was like oh my he was so nice and he said oh we love your show and he was so sweet this is years ago and I said oh my god I'm so excited to meet you I said you know I sent in a tape for star search and he said if I told you the number of talented people that I have met that have now gone on to become successful that didn't make it really on to star yeah he was so nice anyway um so star search or Miss America

and Vanessa Williams yes went to Syracuse but also she and her brother her brother and I grew up together since we went to school together he's a grade above me but we went to school together since like nursery school so so I knew her family whatever and so if you were a musical theater major at Syracuse and

you were a singer yeah you did the Miss America you did the Miss Syracuse pageant did you do the Miss Syracuse so I won that and then I went to Miss New York and I did not win that but I was Miss Congeniality so I was the nicest girl in New York for a whole year just saying are you serious

But anyway, what was great for me, two things about the Miss America pageant,

Miss Syracuse pageant.

I learned how to interview like you cannot believe because at that time you had to answer a question live on stage.

And it wasn't like, what's it mean to be a friend?

It was like a question.

And so you really had to be up on current events and be able to answer a question live on stage, which is, you know, a difficult thing to do sometimes.

And there was an interview portion where you sat in front of a panel of five people that counted for, I mean, it could have been 35% of the score.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

And you were drilled with questions about, you know, the town, the city, the state, the country, you know, all kinds of things.

And so it was, I got mad skills from that, number one.

And the other thing it did was I lost the weight from freshman and sophomore year.

Oh, that's what, that's good.

Because I had to be in a bathing suit.

Oh, you have to be a bathing.

Oh, my God.

So I did that.

And then from then on, I was thin.

And then I was an actress, and I'm like, but still, young, big boobs, voluptuous, but thin.

But if you look at my face, like it's huge.

And so after I had my kids or during the process of having three pregnancies, four children, my body completely changed.

And I, you know, no more boobs.

Although they bounced back a little.

Barely in my, yeah, but, yeah.

I mean, they're like a solid B plus.

Oh, your husband's a plastic surgeon, for God's sake.

Did you get them fixed at least or anything?

No, they're good.

Good for you.

They're fine.

I just, I don't want to do it.

Good for you.

Neither did I.

But listen, by having that as a perk as a husband, I mean, it can help you.

Well, listen, I like other things, but he doesn't, he only does surgery.

He doesn't do like injectables or anything like that.

He doesn't do anything like that.

No.

Oh, he's so, okay, go on, yeah.

So, so, after having my kids, my body went for that, so I lost the boobs.

Yeah.

And I did for five seconds think about getting my breasts done.

And this is why I always tell people, if you want a mommy makeover, you've got to wait a couple of years because, like, my breast tissue can be paid back.

So, I'm like a big bee,

let's call it small scene, big bee, small bee.

I think it looks good to me.

It's all right, it's not bad.

And they look not terrible naked.

And so,

nipples are still in a good place.

And so, my body got super straight.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

How did that, that's a different thing?

I don't know.

My body turned into like this leaner, more athletic body.

So, I have had two completely different body types.

Like what are you doing?

Like my waist instead of going in just got very straight.

And it's not like meds.

You're not on like Ozempic or anything.

No.

What am I trying to get back to my birth weight?

Who knows?

You're very skinny though, I gotta say.

So what do you do?

I was thinner a few years ago.

So we, when we had our 20-year wedding anniversary, we went on this big trip and we went to the south of France and went to Paris, whatever.

It was so fun.

But I wanted to be...

like bikini ready.

Yeah.

And so just 10 years ago, you said?

No, no, it was.

I thought you said you were married 30 years over there.

You told me earlier.

Not married 30.

Like we're together like 27.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

Mom's 30.

No, we're going to have our, we're married 24 years.

It's four years ago.

Wow.

Okay.

And like, but the great thing was, so I got super skinny, like weight-wise thinner than I am right now, but I was shredded.

Like I was doing two a days.

I was weights.

I was like, I was so happy.

It was the first time in my life that I felt like, all right, maybe I won't put the sarong on.

Look at you.

I'm going to walk around.

I'm going to do my thing.

Ever since then, it's gone down a little bit.

And then I had foot surgery.

Oh my god, don't if you don't have to, don't ever have foot surgery.

I had a bunion, I had a thing, and you're right.

And I'm going through menopause, like what a disaster.

So, I gained like 12 pounds during that period of time.

This is a couple years ago, and then I was like, I, it's not comfortable on me, I don't feel like myself anymore.

So, I lost the weight.

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So what are your habits?

Like you're doing I eat lean protein and vegetables is the basic of my diet.

I work out, I mean, right now it's a little bit difficult with the kids going back to school and all this, but a minimum of six days a week.

A minimum.

Okay, so do you sometimes work out like every day?

Okay, and not orange theory every day or every day you're doing orange theory?

It depends.

No, I mix it up.

I like boxing.

So you'll do like how much exercise a day?

An hour, 30 minutes?

Yeah, I like an hour.

Every day.

In the morning?

I like working out in the morning and I like cardio fasting and I'm an intermittent faster.

So I will, and I don't drink coffee.

So you don't drink coffee?

No, no caffeine?

I like an espresso martini.

I know that's super weird, but I don't drink coffee.

Oh, that's interesting.

Every once in a while I'll have one, but I'm really, it's not my thing.

So I get up in the morning, just water.

Okay.

And what time do you wake up?

It depends.

But like with the kids back in school, it's like 6.20.

Yeah, okay, okay, me too.

Okay, so how old are the kids again?

You said they're.

So they're about to turn the next ages, but the twins are going to be

sophomores in college now.

And Kat is going to, she's a junior.

She's about to be 17.

And Ace is seventh grader, and he'll be 13 in December, and the twins will be 20 in November.

My God, they're old kids already.

Wow.

I can't believe it.

It's such a good stage.

Yeah, like that.

I love it.

But don't you have like a life again in a lot of ways?

Yeah, well, this school that they're at, like Kat has to, she can't drive because the parking.

I have to drive them again.

I thought I was done with them.

But yeah, but actually, I enjoy being in the car with them because you get like those conversations.

So anyway, so I basically drop them at school, go to the gym.

It's the first thing I do.

Unless I have an early morning meeting, I try to schedule everything

after because I just want to get it done.

And I don't care about being like, I have makeup on right now, but usually I don't.

So I get up, I'll work out, I'll take a quick shower and throw my hair up and just put my face cream on, and I keep going.

Yeah, that's what I do too.

Because I look at your face at what you're wearing very little makeup.

What do you wear?

I wear, so one of the products that we have is this: it's a tinted moisturizer, but it's got skin ingredients in.

But it honestly didn't sell that well, so we stopped making it.

But I think I have like the last 10 bottles.

I don't know what I'm gonna do when it's done.

It looks good.

Yeah, I know, it's good stuff.

And that's tinted?

Okay, but I believe in wearing as little as possible as possible, like getting your skin to the right spot and like because you don't want to cover your skin.

Right.

You want like something a little shiny.

You want your skin to show through.

Yeah.

Well, you have good skin though.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I want to know what you do.

I want to know like all of that.

It's just our.

It's just, and this is, by the way, not a promo for her stuff.

I had no idea.

She doesn't even talk about it.

This was just me like.

I should talk about it.

It's not good.

How are you not ever, don't you like, because how do you know?

Why don't you talk about it?

I mean, I do.

It's just been so long, I feel like.

I don't know.

It doesn't matter anymore.

It does.

I mean, it does.

It does.

I should do do it.

If you talk, you should.

Yes.

But you don't need to.

You have all these other things.

So, like, okay, I had another question and now I'm forgetting what I wanted to ask you about exactly.

The first thing is, are you shooting now?

Like, when do you start again?

No.

So this was actually an odd year because we were done shooting in November, early November.

Okay.

And so the show usually would have come out like in January.

Right.

Oh, yeah.

So what's going on?

I have no idea, but the powers that be at the network, you know, they schedule their shows appropriately.

And, you know, it's not just about our show, it's about

all the shows and the programming and whatnot.

So, this is when they were doing it.

So, what happens is now you got to watch the show because now you got to see what everyone was saying about you.

And then, what happened?

And then you film the reunion.

So, they are just giving us all the final.

That's why you were saying you're getting reunion ready right now.

So, that's why I'm telling you, I'm thin.

So, partially I'm thin, particularly thin right now because the reunion and also partially because what happened with my husband.

Yeah.

I'm like.

I want to ask you, but I don't want to make you repeat yourself again.

Do you want to say it?

Well, if you want to hear what happened to my husband, you can just go Google me.

But basically, he had stroke-like symptoms at a restaurant and he had a TIA, which was caused by a hole in his heart.

And it was such an ordeal and such a disaster.

And to get him to the hospital and the whole thing.

And so thankfully, it was a very fixable problem.

And he already had the repair like a couple days later

and he's good now but the thing is is that i you know i don't know if this is just i'm just going to speak about women you know a lot of us are the glue for our family right so we take care of the kids and our spouses and household the household and and even like the fun calendar like all the things and i think um I think after it happened, I went into shock, quite frankly.

And I don't think I've come out of it.

And so I think I was joking with you before, but we're shooting the reunion next week.

So by the time this airs, it may have already been shot.

But we're shooting the reunion.

And then I always book a trip for a couple of days away for me and Terry

the day after, just a getaway, checkout, process, whatever.

And so I've, I've scheduled my breakdown for that.

I love your breakdown trip.

I love that.

That's such a good idea.

What I wanted to, now I remember what I wanted to ask you was about your acting stuff.

Like now that you've done the show, are you wanting to go back to acting?

Have you had any opportunities while you've been on the show?

Or like, is there a disconnect?

Is it something now like, because a lot of actors, like you said, come on the show, but have anyone from the show ever become an actor or done any other things?

Oh, yeah, I think so.

I think both of those things are true.

I mean, Nini Leaks, although I think Nini was a performer before she came on the show, but you know, she's been on Broadway.

She's done a lot of things.

You know, a lot of people have done that.

And I think it's fantastic.

Do you want to do that?

So since I've been on the show, I've done like a few guest stars here and there, nothing huge.

But what's sad to me, especially this season on the show, is they're shit talking my career.

So they're pulling up my IMDB, talking about my credits, like it's lame, or it's been so many years since I've done anything, or they talk about me as if I walk around talking about myself, like I'm Meryl Streep, or it's just very odd.

And actually on the episode that's airing tomorrow night, I just watched it, you know, they say I staged paparazzi photos at Disneyland.

It's so stupid.

I don't even know how to do that, but that's a whole other story.

But anyway, who's they, by the way?

Who are these?

The girls?

The girls on the show.

And so Tamara makes a comment.

This is terrible.

This is terrible.

This is terrible.

She makes a comment in her confessional and she says, you're not an A-list actress.

You never were.

No one would want to take a paparazzi photo of you.

And then you go like this.

And by the way,

that hurts me so much because to answer the first part of your question, yes, I definitely want to, I want to do scripted again someday.

I don't know when.

And on the show, it seems the other girls talk about me or it makes it seem like it's imminently happening.

My youngest kid is in seventh grade.

I still have a lot to, you know, take care of,

drive, and make sure everyone's okay.

That I can't be on a set for like those kinds of hours, depending on what it is.

Totally.

So the answer is, I don't know.

It depends, but I'm not, it's not my, at the forefront of my mind at the second.

I just bought this house in Beverly Hills.

I'm super excited about that.

I have to do a massive remodel on.

And it's like there's a time essence, a time issue with it, with things that are going on in the city and whatnot.

Anyway, so I have a lot of things going on right now.

All fantastic, great things that I'm loving and interested in.

But it's like the, it's what we were talking about before, about people that just want to bring you down and press your buttons.

Like, I never said I was an A-list actress, but why do you have to point out that I'm not?

And, you know, it makes you go, how do I handle it?

Do I post all the paparazzi photos that have been taken of me in the last year?

Because there's a number of them.

I mean, maybe not as much as Jennifer Lawrence, but or J-Lo, or J-Lo, who are A-list, I'm clear,

but there are some.

So clearly, some paparazzi wants to take a photo and by the way I don't care if they want to take a picture of me or not you do and then these quote staged paparazzi photos I'll show them to you so this someone wrote an article there were rumors that Terry was cheating on me he's not and by the way this happened a few years ago also why does no one ever think I'm cheating I am cute you're really cute like come on you are anyway she's actually really cute in person thank you guys so so I'm sure there are guys after you There's really not, but I'm just saying.

I'm sure there is.

But anyway, so they were saying like he's cheating.

And so Terry and I were at Disneyland.

And we were at Disneyland because it was my daughter's sweet 16 and that's what she wanted to do.

And we were also celebrating that no one knew, but we had just sold her house.

Oh, okay.

And so

thank you.

And so, and it was kind of like an epic deal and whatever.

So we were at Disneyland, we were drinking, we were laughing, we were hanging out.

Drinking at Disneyland?

Yeah, because at California Adventure, there's bars.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Oh, yeah.

In Marvel World, you can get this huge pretzel.

That's when when you cheat.

You get this huge pretzel, and they have this like tequila drink.

It's so good.

Oh, yeah.

Anyway, so we're like drinking and laughing and walking through California Adventure and Disneyland.

And I guess someone took photos of us.

So someone wrote an article with the photos and they said, Amidst cheating rumors, Jabru's looking happy at Disneyland.

Now, if you look at the five photos that this person took, Three of them were like sitting like on a bench where he's looking in the distance, could be mad.

me making a bad face like this like you very easily could have plucked one of those photos

and written on admits cheating rumors unhappy at the happiest place on earth, right?

But they just want to hate.

But then what do I do?

Do I post that?

Do I leave it alone?

You know, is there a faction of the audience that's going to think I staged paparazzi?

I mean, like, it's just so stupid.

Why leave it alone?

Why would I do that?

Because people want to be famous and people want attention.

That's why.

But I I already

am famous.

I'm already on a show.

And what they've said he's been cheating on me for years.

What do I care now?

Because people have to maintain their level of importance and level of fame.

We're living in a world where social media now, everybody wants 15 minutes of fame and then to maintain and then keep it going.

That's where they go.

But to your point with these other women on the show, these are not friends.

Like, this is what's people, this is what's scary about reality TV is that you have people like that who are doing the same thing you're doing who are like they should technically be compassionate and like be your buds but it's comp it's competitive yeah but they have and they want they want to destroy you yeah but think about real life but there's always one in the group there's always one there's always a a rotten apple but that's why

but that's why it's real life it's a microcosm of real life yeah It is a microcosm.

And even though it sucks and it's aimed at me, it's like, how do you navigate it?

How much can you just just let brush off and how much do you laugh off laugh off you gotta laugh it off yeah i mean is there one that's worse than others are they all just the same like who's the worst one i can't say that i mean is there could you whisper it in my ear no tell me offline i'll tell you later okay because i'm curious because i don't like

I'm just I'm just fascinated but that one person might be different for everyone but you know I think my biggest problem right now with my show I don't know if this is the same on other people's shows, but on our show, is that it's a little trumpian in the fact that I'm gonna get a lot of shit for saying that, but it's a little trumpian in the fact that if you repeat something enough times, it's the truth.

Yeah, by the way, that's what's everything in social media or anything in life.

Again, it's like a microphone.

But it didn't used to be that, it used to be the truth was the truth.

And if someone was, although, but like it reminds me of Hitler, I mean, it's just terrifying.

It's all of it, it's people who have a whoever is louder, bigger, who is more

polarizing,

they get the attention.

Yeah.

Because it's the dopamine in our brains that we want to have, like our brains waking up to that.

It's terrifying, but I do always feel like this.

Like, at the end of the day, I get to go home.

And, like, I don't mean like to the house.

Like, I know.

I mean, like, I get to go home

to my family.

And I, I mean, I am so lucky.

Like, I got, I have the greatest husband.

He's awesome.

And we have such a nice relationship.

Like, we really, really, he's my best, best friend.

Yeah.

We have so much fun together.

And

we were just in the beginning of the summer.

We had like a wedding and this, that, we were like together 24-7 for

work, whatever it was, like three weeks.

And he went to work that next day and he was texting me all day.

Like, is it weird?

I miss like just so sweet.

You guys are still in love after almost 30 years together.

Yeah, we really are.

I swear, I think I love him more now.

I think our relationship has evolved into like the coolest, greatest thing.

That's amazing.

Even with the show, because I would think, I think you and I talked about that.

That was our one bad year.

We were fighting about, it looked like we were fighting about something else, but we were really fighting about being on the show because he thought, I was just talking to one of the other girls on the show about this because it's so weird.

He thought it was a joke.

To him, it was funny because he's a doctor.

Like, what does he care about being on a show?

So he would press my buttons thinking it was funny.

Yeah.

But, like, you know how if your husband ever does that to you in in a dinner or something, later you're like, don't do that again, but it's on camera.

It's on camera, yeah.

And I would be like infuriated and that was a bad year.

That's it, but but even though like that's the worst of it, but I'm saying like people's like, there's very few relationships that make it through reality TV.

Yeah, well, that's, we had to have a come to Jesus moment.

That year I said to him, I go, look, we're fighting.

It's not okay.

And we have to figure out how to navigate this or I'm getting off the show.

Cause our marriage and our family is more important than being on a TV show.

But you've navigated it pretty well.

Like the things that kind of like you're talking about, they're like pretty benign in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah.

Right?

Like, you know, like you're vocal about your kids.

You're vocal about like, you know, your husband's career is taken off.

You have all these other platforms and amazing things happening.

You guys are still a unit.

Your kids seem to be handling everything.

Well, they're good.

You know, like, it didn't like, how are they at school?

Are there friends like, oh my God, your mom or this?

No, no, not really.

You know, I think people who know my kids know them.

Yeah.

But I think people would assume certain things about my kids.

My kids are really normal.

Yeah.

They're really grounded.

I bet they are.

I thought they would be with you, actually.

They're like, they're just, they're just good kids.

Normal, good kids.

They're normal, good kids.

And

trust me, they have friends who have parents that are very famous.

And I was going to say, like, it's all relative.

We're living in LA and all that.

But, like, you're out there very vocally with your children, talking about all of their, you know, everything about them in terms of that.

That's a tough walk, I have to say, because, you know, my main job is to protect them, which I need to do, but I do have this platform.

Yeah.

And, you know, we started this show like when my youngest was nine months old.

So like these kids have been known their whole lives.

The whole lot.

That's what I'm saying.

Like, that's what I'm saying.

It doesn't matter how the celebrity being an A-list,

B-list, C-list.

Your kids are out there more than an A-list kid would be with like true things that are happening in their day-to-day lives and being talked about in like gossip rags, is what I'm saying.

It's a different situation.

Yeah, it's not easy.

And so, I do the best.

I mean, the problem is, you know, we can't move to another

state and live off the grid.

And I mean, these are like, these are our jobs.

Exactly.

And so.

But you can, but you don't want to.

But, like, I mean, he's going to, where is he going to be a plastic surgeon?

Like, I don't know.

In Kansas.

I guess.

Yeah, it's not going to happen.

This is like the mecca.

And still, there's social media.

Like, you know, it follows you wherever you go.

So here we are.

This is what our family is.

And, you know, I'm just doing my best to protect them.

But I feel like I was given these kids for a reason.

Yeah.

And I want to protect them and take care of them.

But I feel like part of my mission in life has become to take care of other people's kids too.

Yeah, which is great.

You're using your platform for good.

I know we got to wrap because we got to, you got to go get your kids.

I think one fact, does your husband still actually practice like surgery?

He does surgery like hell.

Yeah, but what's so crazy, we always joke, like he never sees virgin tissue anymore.

He only sees like the worst mess ups.

Right, well, because I've botched, I guess.

Yeah, of of course.

He does all the hard revisional surgery, but he loves it.

You know what's so great?

Yeah.

Seeing, you know, I remember there was a period of time where he was a little bit disillusioned with plastic surgery because, you know, he started off as a general surgeon.

Yeah.

Because that's

well, that's the classic way.

That's right.

I mean, there's different ways to become a plastic surgeon, but he was a general surgeon.

chief resident general surgeon then plastic surgery chief resident plastic surgeon and so you know he started with gunshot wounds and all that kind of stuff and then plastics and doing reconstructive and whatever.

And then he was in a practice where, you know, it was like women holding their eye like a millimet above, millimeter above.

I like it here.

I'm unhappy here.

I'm happy here.

I'm not on.

And he was like, oh my God, what am I doing with my life?

And then when he started botched, it changed.

It changed everything.

Because he was fixing like legit.

Yes.

He was using his skills for like to really help people again.

It completely changed him.

And he got so reinforced.

He loves operating.

He loves what he does.

He's such an incredibly smart, such a talented doctor, and he loves it.

That's amazing.

He's the most enthusiastic guy.

My God, I love that.

I need to meet him.

Yeah, well, we'll go out to dinner.

Okay, we have to.

All right, I'll let you off there now.

Okay, so Heather, you're great.

What's your podcast call?

Where do people find you if they don't know?

Okay, anything you want to know, you can go to heatherdubrow.com.

Everything is there.

There's links to everything.

If you want to buy the console beauty, yeah, this is a console beauty phase.

And the podcast is called Let's Talk with Heather Dubrow.

And sign up for my newsletter.

It's free.

I give it all away for free.

Perfect.

Not a monetizer, apparently.

I don't talk about my products.

I don't link it.

I don't get money from the links.

Nothing.

That's it.

But she makes money off just being Heather.

Thanks for coming on.

Thank you.

Bye.