Broken

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.

Speaker 2 Black Friday savings are here at the Home Depot, which means it's time to add new cordless power to your collection.

Speaker 2 Right now, when you buy a select battery kit from one of our top brands like Ryobi or Milwaukee, you'll get a select tool from that same brand for free.

Speaker 2 Click into one of our best deals of the season and stock up on tools for all your upcoming projects. Get Black Friday savings happening now at the Home Depot.

Speaker 2 Limit one per transaction exclusion supply full eligible tool list in store and online.

Speaker 1 We know no one's journey is the same. That's why Delta Sky Miles moves with you.

Speaker 1 From earning miles on reloads for coffee runs, shopping, and things you do every day to connecting you to new experiences.

Speaker 1 A Sky Miles membership fits into your lifestyle, letting you do more of what makes you, you. It's more than travel.
It's the membership that flies, dines, streams, rides, and arrives with you.

Speaker 1 Because when you have a membership that's as unique as you are, there's no telling where your journey will take you next. Learn more at delta.com/slash skymiles.

Speaker 3 Noticed unwanted facial volume loss after GLP1 weight loss? The weight came off, but volume loss and dull, sagging skin are making you look older. Now you can reclaim your youthful-looking appearance.

Speaker 3 Learn more at faceafterweightloss.com. That's faceafterweightloss.com.

Speaker 6 Ah, greetings from my bath, festive friends.

Speaker 9 The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money, getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

Speaker 12 No fees, no interest.

Speaker 13 I used it to get this portable spa with jets.

Speaker 14 Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body.

Speaker 15 Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal.

Speaker 16 Save the offer in the app. N1231, see paypal.com/slash promotions.

Speaker 17 Points give your renee for cash and more pay in four subject to terms and approval.

Speaker 18 PayPal Inc. at MLS 910-457.

Speaker 19 Previously on Happy Face.

Speaker 20 Keith fell in high school. I believe it was 25 feet.

Speaker 20 When they interview killers, they have found that a large percentage of them damaged their frontal lobe before they were 22, changes their whole personality.

Speaker 4 Keith's father, Les, was a very resourceful, ingenious man, but he could be a monster.

Speaker 9 He was horrible.

Speaker 21 I hated him.

Speaker 22 Les...

Speaker 20 told him this is the way what you're going to say in court for the mobile part.

Speaker 24 He didn't lied in court.

Speaker 23 Absolutely. He did.

Speaker 19 He dragged me me to a nursing home to visit one of his hunting buddies. He said, My friend Smitty's not doing too good with his lung cancer, Keith.
Talk to him, son. Nobody likes to die alone.

Speaker 19 I never feared a dead person after that.

Speaker 4 One of the few people that Keith opened up to about his childhood was psychologist Al Carlisle.

Speaker 26 So even by the age of eight, it was a lot of anger. You doing me wrong,

Speaker 26 I was bound and determined to get even. Any learning problems?

Speaker 21 No, not really.

Speaker 26 So you're intelligent.

Speaker 20 I'm very intelligent, but but i just didn't adapt myself to it i received a letter a week before he got arrested it said rose what i did is bigger than oj simpson that i'll probably be in hell forever in the pines keith

Speaker 28 in the vines

Speaker 28 where the sun don't ever shine

Speaker 28 i would shiver

Speaker 21 the whole

Speaker 21 night through

Speaker 4 the subconscious mind often knows the truth long before we do.

Speaker 4 I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco, and this is Happy Face.

Speaker 20 I was driving in a car down the road, and this is after your dad and I were separated.

Speaker 23 Officially divorced.

Speaker 20 Not officially divorced, but we were separated.

Speaker 27 And they had on the news that they were searching for the Green River killer.

Speaker 20 And I go, hmm, I wonder if that's Keith.

Speaker 30 Why did I say that?

Speaker 21 But I think

Speaker 20 you internally know things that you don't state. You don't acknowledge.

Speaker 23 So intuitively.

Speaker 20 I just said it out loud.

Speaker 30 I go, hmm, I wonder if that's Keith.

Speaker 21 And then I gasp, like, oh, why did I think that?

Speaker 20 I don't know. Because

Speaker 20 I think by the time we were separated, I had so many more pieces of the puzzle and I was starting to connect things.

Speaker 22 Because before it was,

Speaker 20 I got a piece here and a piece here.

Speaker 20 I think I got enough pieces that I

Speaker 20 was beginning to connect it.

Speaker 4 Melissa also remembers having thoughts she couldn't explain.

Speaker 25 There was a time where I actually had a vision of my father behind bars,

Speaker 25 and there was nobody I could tell to because nobody would believe me.

Speaker 25 It was when I was in seventh grade. I was walking to school, and I had a mental image pop up in my mind of my father being behind the glass and having a telephone.

Speaker 25 My stomach sunk, and

Speaker 25 I felt sorrow and sadness. I just remember thinking that was a very

Speaker 25 intense emotion attached to the vision.

Speaker 10 We've gone too

Speaker 28 far.

Speaker 19 From I, the making of a serial killer by Jack Olson.

Speaker 19 Dawn was coming and pretty soon the traffic would be too heavy for me to unload her on the shoulder. I thought back to when I first met her and loved her and wanted her for all time.

Speaker 19 I needed to do one more killing and then end this murder machine for good.

Speaker 19 I put my fist against her throat for the last time.

Speaker 19 Just before she passed out, I told her,

Speaker 19 You're number eight.

Speaker 19 And yes,

Speaker 19 I will get away with it.

Speaker 19 She didn't breathe again.

Speaker 4 It's especially hard for Melissa to process some of her seemingly happy memories now.

Speaker 4 Even something as harmless as watching television together.

Speaker 25 Growing up with my dad, something that we used to do together is we used to watch true crime shows.

Speaker 25 Even when I was like a young girl, I remember him sitting on the brown velvet couch and I would crawl up on his lap.

Speaker 25 And then because he was so tall, I would actually crawl up on the back of the couch and sit on his shoulders and we would watch like unsolved mysteries.

Speaker 25 I remember that was, seemed to be our favorite show. And I would always be terrified at the end of the program as a young girl, thinking, oh my gosh,

Speaker 25 there's a million ways I could be abducted. And like just terrified, absolutely terrified.
As you're sitting on the yeah, as I'm sitting on the shoulders of my father thinking,

Speaker 25 I hope something like that never happens to me. I hope that I know how to keep myself safe.

Speaker 25 And I think that's partially why I watched these programs is I was looking for ways of like,

Speaker 25 what did the victim do that could have saved her life.

Speaker 25 I was analyzing this and ironically I think my father was analyzing how to get away with murder and what tools did the detectives have.

Speaker 25 It is eerie to me to see the time my timeline of events and my father's timeline of his murders. Because there's moments where we were together and then

Speaker 25 knowing he had just committed a murder and now was taking me to McDonald's like it was nothing.

Speaker 29 How was he able to do that?

Speaker 25 Soon after my parents' divorce, my dad would spend summer vacations with us and during his visitations

Speaker 25 He would say things that were

Speaker 28 were alarming

Speaker 28 were

Speaker 25 odd and bizarre and explicit.

Speaker 4 Like what?

Speaker 4 And was it targeted towards you?

Speaker 25 Yeah, he would target it towards me. I didn't see my brother and my sister getting the same treatment.
Maybe because I'm the oldest, I was his confidant.

Speaker 25 It was just peppered throughout our conversations, these things he would say that were startling. He would say, I know how to commit the most perfect murder.

Speaker 4 And how old were you?

Speaker 25 I was a young woman. I was in my early teens, and I remember thinking, this is odd, but it was one of the first times I heard him say something like that.
He would say,

Speaker 25 I would cut the buttons off of her jeans so that my fingerprints wouldn't be on them. I would then wear my cycling shoes so that I wouldn't leave a sole print in the dirt.

Speaker 25 And then I would make sure her belongings were other places.

Speaker 19 From I, the Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olson.

Speaker 19 I drove to a spot on the downhill side of Highway 14, on the Washington state side of the Columbia Gorge, across the river from where I threw Tanya Bennett's body in Oregon.

Speaker 19 I carried her over past a guardrail and some garbage sacks and pitched her down a 15-foot embankment.

Speaker 19 I stared at her crumpled body in the weeds and thought how she'd only lasted five days with me.

Speaker 19 What a waste.

Speaker 4 1995, the year Keith Jesperson was arrested, was already an incredibly traumatic one for Melissa for a variety of reasons.

Speaker 4 To get further insight into what she was going through, we traveled to meet with her high school boyfriend, Nick.

Speaker 29 We're close to Shadel.

Speaker 24 So this is where I went to high school in 1995 when I heard the news about my dad. I was going to this school and I was dating a guy named Nick.

Speaker 24 He was actually my first boyfriend. He,

Speaker 24 when I started my freshman year here,

Speaker 27 he was in my English class and he was just actually kind of similar to my dad in the sense that he was a jokester, he was funny, everybody laughed, he was charismatic.

Speaker 29 He just seemed to have an edge and like I thought that he was a misunderstood person.

Speaker 27 I was out to prove that people didn't get him right.

Speaker 29 And my friends and everybody said that he's bad news.

Speaker 4 Why? What was his reputation?

Speaker 29 He had been arrested. I had heard rumors about drug deals.

Speaker 27 He had a pager.

Speaker 24 He had money all the time, cash all the time. He had a money clip with lots of $100 bills.

Speaker 27 I found that appealing.

Speaker 27 He asked me to dance that fall, and before I knew it, he just became a part of my life, you know, know. And

Speaker 23 I got pregnant.

Speaker 23 I got pregnant my freshman year.

Speaker 29 Something was off with my body, and I could just tell something was up. And so I got a pregnancy test, and I went into the bathroom stall here at Shadel, right here.

Speaker 29 It was after classes, and the pregnancy test turned positive.

Speaker 24 And I was alone and thinking, holy shit,

Speaker 15 like, what do I do

Speaker 4 how did he react to finding out you were pregnant

Speaker 24 not well not well at all he didn't handle it well I mean like he's a teenage boy too so like I'll give him that but I didn't handle it well either

Speaker 29 I was in panic mode at that point once I found I was pregnant I I was terrified I had no idea what to do I couldn't tell my mom I felt like if I told my mom, she would think I was a whore.

Speaker 24 And

Speaker 24 so right after I found out that I was pregnant is when the news hit about my dad.

Speaker 4 With her mother and siblings living in poverty, Melissa found herself once again back in her grandmother's basement,

Speaker 4 young and scared and having to face a really difficult choice.

Speaker 29 12 weeks

Speaker 29 and every week that would pass it was just like

Speaker 24 getting closer to that deadline, and the pressure is building. But also, at the same time, while I was going through that, I was learning about my dad and his crimes.

Speaker 27 And now we're living in the basement of my grandmother's house.

Speaker 24 That's where Nick actually became a really critical part in my life because he had a car. He would actually come to the north side of town and come pick me up and take me to school.

Speaker 24 He made it so much more convenient to get to school.

Speaker 24 when I was in my relationship with him it was a very dysfunctional relationship it was extreme highs and lows and when things were good they were good when things were bad they were extremely bad physical

Speaker 27 and

Speaker 27 he was very possessive of me he would hold my

Speaker 24 when we walk around high school he would

Speaker 24 hold my belt loop like I can just like he always had his hands on me like he was always claiming me with his face And

Speaker 29 we were constantly together.

Speaker 24 I never had a break.

Speaker 24 It was a very codependent, abusive relationship, I would say.

Speaker 19 From I, The Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olson.

Speaker 19 I went back to my truck and rehearsed the lies I planned to tell when I was arrested. I took myself back to when I killed Tanya and tried to figure out what made me cross the the line into murder.

Speaker 19 Was it the things I read about in the detective magazines? Arson, animal abuse, that I killed to make up for a wasted life, for my own fuck-ups? Was it dad's fault? My brother's, my mother's?

Speaker 19 It was too easy to blame the rest of the family. Maybe I was just a no-good son of a bitch that got off on killing women.

Speaker 19 Maybe it was my nature.

Speaker 24 I was living a nightmare, and it became my only option in my mind when I came home one day, saw my sleeping bag on the cot, and thought, a crib does not fit here.

Speaker 29 Next to a cot, I just couldn't see it.

Speaker 27 And that's when the choice was made for me.

Speaker 24 I don't see how a baby bed could be right there.

Speaker 23 And

Speaker 24 I couldn't bear the thought of being financially dependent on Nick or welfare like my mom was.

Speaker 29 So I felt like the only option for me to break out of this poverty was to not have the baby.

Speaker 24 If anybody says 1995, some people will think OJ Simpson, some people will think

Speaker 24 you know Menendez Brothers or something like that.

Speaker 14 I think

Speaker 23 of

Speaker 29 the time I was in that dark bathroom stall seeing I was pregnant and the news hitting of my dad and losing everything in my life.

Speaker 27 I really thought

Speaker 27 everything was against me.

Speaker 31 Abercromi is an official fashion partner of the NFL, and I'm pro wide receiver Amin Ross St. Brown.

Speaker 31 The holidays are crazy for me. I don't have time to pick out fits for every event.
That's why Abercrombie has me covered this season.

Speaker 31 Whether I'm with my family or the homies, Abercromie's teas and jeans are my go-to's. Abercromi has the holiday season lined up.
Shop new arrivals in the app, online, and in-store.

Speaker 32 There's nothing like sinking into luxury. Anibay sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price.

Speaker 32 Anibay has designed the only fully machine-washable sofa from top to bottom. The stain-resistant performance fabric slip covers and cloud-like frame duvet can go straight into your wash.

Speaker 32 Perfect for anyone with kids, pets, or anyone who loves an easy-to-clean, spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slip covers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style.

Speaker 32 Whether you need a single chair, love seat, or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washable sofas.com to upgrade your home.

Speaker 32 Sofas start at just $699 and right now, get early access to Black Friday savings, up to 60% off store-wide with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas.com.

Speaker 21 Add a little

Speaker 32 to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Speaker 33 Some moments in your life stay with you forever.

Speaker 33 In a special segment of On Purpose, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the exact same edition on eBay years later.

Speaker 33 There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world. I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me.

Speaker 33 Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again. I wanted the same edition back.
Not a reprint, not a different cover, that exact one. So I started searching.

Speaker 33 And that's when I found it on eBay. That's what I love about eBay.
It's not just a marketplace, it's a place where stories live. Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story.

Speaker 33 eBay, things people love.

Speaker 33 Listen to on purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 6 Ah, greetings for my bath, festive friends.

Speaker 9 The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money, getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

Speaker 12 No fees, no interest.

Speaker 13 I used it to get this portable spa with jets.

Speaker 14 Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body.

Speaker 15 Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal.

Speaker 16 Save the offer in the app. NS1231, see paypal.com/slash promo terms.

Speaker 17 Points keep your renee for cash and more pay in for subject to terms and approval.

Speaker 18 PayPal Inc. and MLS 910-457.

Speaker 4 As Melissa began to put the pieces of her past back together, after more than 20 years, she decided to visit Nick.

Speaker 4 Maybe to confront him, maybe foreclosure. It was hard to tell.
Maybe just to remember.

Speaker 27 How far are we from the house?

Speaker 14 We're just about a minute away.

Speaker 23 Okay.

Speaker 29 I just haven't seen him for

Speaker 27 at least 20 years.

Speaker 23 I'm so nervous.

Speaker 4 Your destination is on the left.

Speaker 10 Oh, right now?

Speaker 23 Right there. Oh, God.

Speaker 29 Well, it's a cute house. Oh, there he is on the porch.

Speaker 27 Oh, my God.

Speaker 29 He sees us.

Speaker 29 Okay. He's dressed nice, too.

Speaker 21 Okay.

Speaker 23 Hey, Nick.

Speaker 24 How are you? Long time no see.

Speaker 23 How's it going?

Speaker 21 What's up to the save?

Speaker 21 You're doing well.

Speaker 23 It's good to see you.

Speaker 21 So thanks for agreeing.

Speaker 21 Yeah, come on in. All right, thanks.

Speaker 30 So is this your place?

Speaker 23 Yeah, welcome.

Speaker 4 Melissa didn't think that Nick would sit down and meet with her. And when I called him and reached out, he immediately responded with such positivity.

Speaker 4 The first thing you thought of when you walked through the door was

Speaker 4 it was so bright and cheerful and didn't look like a bachelor pad at all. The house was

Speaker 4 spotless,

Speaker 4 almost as if it were staged for a real estate photo.

Speaker 34 I've got lots of spare room because I'm hoping to get my kids coming soon.

Speaker 30 Do you have kids?

Speaker 34 Yes, I'm working on it.

Speaker 24 Working on getting them here.

Speaker 4 There was something very tidy and cheerful about the house and something very sad too because you could feel the absence of his kids.

Speaker 4 It's like he had built this house for his children to enjoy and they weren't there.

Speaker 23 I haven't done anything.

Speaker 24 Do they live like another state or something?

Speaker 34 No, they're with their mom right now and

Speaker 23 it's a long story.

Speaker 34 I was married for seven years, have four kids, and all I want is my

Speaker 34 weekends, and I just want the kids to know that I've been trying and that I never stopped and I've never given up.

Speaker 34 And whatever their mom says to them, they're going to know something else someday, too.

Speaker 28 And that's about all I want to say about it right now because it's a mess.

Speaker 29 Charlotte, sorry about that. Oh, it's okay.

Speaker 14 And life happens.

Speaker 34 So, yeah, and then I got one more spot here.

Speaker 4 At the end of the tour, we settle down at this impeccably clean dining room table to talk about his past with Melissa.

Speaker 24 Do you remember?

Speaker 23 My mom is a little blurry.

Speaker 34 Me too on some of that.

Speaker 24 Just like, what do you remember from?

Speaker 23 Maybe you could just tell me what you remember of that time frame and then.

Speaker 22 Well,

Speaker 34 I remember one day you just coming out and telling me that there was something about your dad you wanted to tell me and you weren't sure if the information was true or what to believe and you told me what you knew.

Speaker 34 It was

Speaker 34 shocking to me, but I didn't know what to say or what to do to help you.

Speaker 29 So at the time it was

Speaker 24 one murderer. It was Julie Winningham.
I didn't even know her name yet. And we went to the library.

Speaker 23 We did.

Speaker 16 Several times.

Speaker 34 And we would look up the articles. And I remember you had said you weren't sure what to believe, and it was shocking.
And

Speaker 34 you also had heard that after he was arrested, he had wrote a letter to his family that had

Speaker 34 stuff in it that you didn't get to know what was in it, but you heard that

Speaker 34 he had made a lot of statements that

Speaker 34 would be admissions. And I didn't know what to think either.

Speaker 24 Yeah, we were just young. I was 15.
How old were you? 16?

Speaker 23 15 as well.

Speaker 24 We're both the same age.

Speaker 34 I remember just being stunned and not sure what to believe.

Speaker 24 Well, I just, I trusted you.

Speaker 23 And I didn't feel judgment from you about it at all.

Speaker 24 I remember one paper in particular, there was a statement from the son of Julie Winningham, the victim. That was towards the end, towards the trial, and that was pretty devastating.

Speaker 24 Where he talked about,

Speaker 24 obviously, he's torn up and devastated, rightfully so, and wanted my dad to be killed.

Speaker 27 Like, he wanted him dead. And I remember thinking, like, this is really hard.
At the time, you know, it was a transition. Like, I still loved my dad.

Speaker 29 I was trying to figure out how to reconcile my mind, these crimes, and then also

Speaker 27 wanted to not believe it.

Speaker 24 And then reading that was hard.

Speaker 34 So that's what I remember, just as you said it and it was hard to help you in any way other than just kind of be your friend to listen and be there if I could.

Speaker 34 You didn't want to believe it. I remember that.
Out of all of the talking that we did, most of it, you didn't want it to be true.

Speaker 24 Do you remember meeting him?

Speaker 34 Yes, once.

Speaker 34 He was a real nice guy,

Speaker 34 just calm and

Speaker 34 there was nothing nothing abnormal at all about him.

Speaker 28 And I didn't realize... Did he intimidate you?

Speaker 27 Because you were my boyfriend at the time.

Speaker 29 No. Or was he just like...

Speaker 34 No, but he pulled me into the kitchen and asked me, you know, how I felt about you.

Speaker 21 Oh, really? Yeah, I remember that.

Speaker 21 And

Speaker 34 I told him that I cared about you a lot and you were really cool. And

Speaker 34 I just told him that it was nice to meet him. And I thanked him and I tried to keep it cool.
Yeah, because

Speaker 34 I was nervous.

Speaker 34 I've never met him before, but he didn't intimidate me at all. He didn't scare me in any way.
I didn't feel any.

Speaker 22 Why would I have?

Speaker 19 From the Oregonian, March 29th, 1995, by John Painter Jr.

Speaker 19 A long-haul trucker told a Clark County Sheriff's Office detective by phone that he strangled Julianne Winningham, 41, while raping her in the sleeper cap of his rig after gagging her with duct tape.

Speaker 19 During the autopsy, smoke-like stains were found on parts of her body, suggesting the corpse had been hauled around before being dumped.

Speaker 19 Keith H. Jesperson, 40, made his admission Friday to Detective Rick Buckner in a telephone conversation.

Speaker 19 In an earlier phone message to Buckner on Thursday, Jesperson, who is six feet six inches tall and weighs 250 pounds, said he'd, quote, tried to kill himself a couple of times. And it hasn't worked.

Speaker 19 Not enough pills in the damn country.

Speaker 10 I'm T.

Speaker 35 Higgins, pro wide receiver, and Abercrombie is an official fashion partner at the NFL. The holidays are crazy for me.
I don't have time to pick outfits for every event.

Speaker 35 That's why Abercrombie hasn't covered this season. Whether I'm with my family or the homies, Abercrombie Tees and Jeans are my go-tos.

Speaker 35 Abercrombie has a holiday season lineup. Shop new arrivals in the app, online, and in store.

Speaker 32 Life gets messy. Spills, stains, and kid chaos.
But with Anibay, cleaning up is easy. Our sofas are fully machine washable, inside and out, so you never have to stress about messes again.

Speaker 32 Made with liquid and stain-resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind.

Speaker 32 Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers, allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly.

Speaker 32 Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth-friendly and built to last.
That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch.

Speaker 32 Get early access to Black Friday pricing right now. Sofas started just $699.

Speaker 32 Visit washable sofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washable sofas.com.
Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Speaker 33 Some moments in life stay with you forever.

Speaker 33 In a special segment of On Purpose brought to you by eBay, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the same exact edition on eBay.

Speaker 33 It was more than just a purchase. it was a reconnection with a memory that shaped my purpose.
There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world.

Speaker 33 I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me. Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again.
I wanted the same edition back. Not a reprint, that exact one.

Speaker 33 So I started searching, and that's when I found it on eBay. That's what I love about eBay, where you can rediscover the pieces of your past that still inspire your present.

Speaker 33 Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story. eBay, things people love.

Speaker 33 Listen to OnPurpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 6 Ah, greetings from my bath, festive friends.

Speaker 9 The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money, getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

Speaker 12 No fees, no interest.

Speaker 13 I used it to get this portable spa with jets.

Speaker 14 Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body.

Speaker 15 Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal.

Speaker 16 Save the offer in the app. NS1231, see paypal.com slash promo terms.

Speaker 17 Points can be renewed for cash and more paying for subject to terms and approval.

Speaker 18 PayPal Inc. and MLS 910-457.

Speaker 4 While Melissa has very strong recollections about what transpired between her and Nick, Nick's memories are much more fond and kinder.

Speaker 4 What becomes clear is that they went through a very difficult situation as two two young teenagers and it's still hard as adults.

Speaker 23 Something that I haven't really talked about a lot though is that we got pregnant.

Speaker 24 Do you remember that?

Speaker 34 Yes

Speaker 34 and I haven't talked to anybody about that. I tried not to

Speaker 34 think about it then and it came back years later.

Speaker 23 What do you mean?

Speaker 34 I had a lot of emotions that came from it and it was

Speaker 34 when I had children later, that's when things came back and that's when I started thinking about it again because

Speaker 34 I would get too much emotions to think about it. So

Speaker 34 I didn't.

Speaker 34 And I probably should have

Speaker 34 now looking back on it, I wish I would have

Speaker 34 dealt with it better and maybe

Speaker 34 talked to you more about our options. And I don't know.

Speaker 23 I have no blame. Like we're young kids.

Speaker 24 Is there a physical side to your relationship?

Speaker 23 There was a couple incidents to remember.

Speaker 34 Uh what do you mean?

Speaker 23 Like it was we were we had kind of a violent relationship a little bit.

Speaker 24 There were some aspects that were were not healthy.

Speaker 34 Probably arguing more than we should

Speaker 34 about certain things, not knowing how to talk about it.

Speaker 23 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 34 I remember we had some

Speaker 34 heated discussions about

Speaker 34 what we wanted to do

Speaker 34 and

Speaker 34 how we were going to move forward.

Speaker 34 I do remember that.

Speaker 21 Yeah.

Speaker 24 Do you think it was just out of fear?

Speaker 34 Yeah, probably.

Speaker 4 You could tell that there was a pain, a hesitation when Nick spoke about his own emotions regarding Melissa's pregnancy.

Speaker 4 And it seemed like it was something that deeply bothered him, even now.

Speaker 4 Did you follow her father's case at all over the years? Do you remember?

Speaker 34 No, I didn't.

Speaker 34 Only because

Speaker 34 I was dealing with my own emotions. about stuff with her and I then at that time I hadn't processed all the way yet anyways.

Speaker 34 The last time I really thought about you the mostly was when I was first married and had my first kid. And I was talking to my wife about you.

Speaker 23 Yeah,

Speaker 23 no, I got it. I got it.

Speaker 34 I won't forget those

Speaker 34 times.

Speaker 34 It's going to be with me forever, of course.

Speaker 34 It was an impact on my life, too.

Speaker 23 Yeah.

Speaker 34 And like I told you, I cared about you. So you were

Speaker 34 one that got away for me.

Speaker 19 From I, The Making of a Serial Killer by Jack Olson.

Speaker 19 My 14-year-old son, Jason, and my 15-year-old daughter, Melissa, visited me through glass, and it only made things worse.

Speaker 19 The phone connection was bad, and the guards rushed me away before we really started talking.

Speaker 19 I cried as they led me off. I felt sorry that my kids had to see me this way.
I couldn't even tell them I loved them. I had a feeling I wouldn't see them again.

Speaker 4 After we left, we spoke a bit about what it was like for Melissa to see Nick again and what she took away from meeting with him.

Speaker 29 I could tell you didn't want to talk about that.

Speaker 24 You know, you always tell me hurt people hurt,

Speaker 23 and

Speaker 23 I'm starting to see maybe where his hurt came from.

Speaker 23 Yeah.

Speaker 21 I, you know, I want

Speaker 27 the best for everybody. I want people to be, I want to think that people could be reformed.
I want to think that good things can happen to people

Speaker 27 and that there is redemption, there are changes. There are like, you know, I want to believe in that.

Speaker 29 And if it's possible, then I hope he gets that.

Speaker 5 And I

Speaker 5 hope this

Speaker 5 for

Speaker 5 you.

Speaker 19 From the Salt Lake City Tribune, August 21st, 1995.

Speaker 19 When Julie smiled, it was like sunshine came out of her mouth. She just loved everybody and everything, her sister Joni says in an interview.

Speaker 19 Trucking was her way of life, and she wanted to die on the road. But not like this.

Speaker 19 Not to be killed by some monster.

Speaker 19 With all the evidence against me, it looks like I'm truly a black sheep, his March 24th letter reads.

Speaker 19 I'm sure they will kill me for this.

Speaker 19 I'm sorry that I turned out this way, he scrawled. I've been a killer for five years and have killed eight people, assaulted more.

Speaker 19 I guess I haven't learned anything.

Speaker 19 I can see

Speaker 19 a spark of belief.

Speaker 19 I pray it to be a

Speaker 19 beautiful

Speaker 19 thing.

Speaker 29 When I found I was pregnant and all that was happening and I decided I was going to have an abortion, I told myself this is going to be a second chance in life.

Speaker 24 I'm going to turn my life around and everything's going to be very intentional. I'm going to come up with a plan.

Speaker 24 And I promised myself I was going to graduate high school, which I was the first in my family to graduate, and I was going to go to college.

Speaker 24 And I was going to get an education so that I would never have to live like this ever again and never be dependent upon a man ever again.

Speaker 23 And

Speaker 14 I

Speaker 29 told myself I was going to start over with my life.

Speaker 4 So your dad's in prison at the time.

Speaker 24 Yeah, he's at prison.

Speaker 29 Because I didn't have anybody to talk to and I didn't want to tell my mom.

Speaker 27 I wrote him a letter and I said, um,

Speaker 24 I vented out like all of my anger about what he did to our family and to the victims' families and how much he's hurt everybody.

Speaker 29 And that, like, about my sorrow explained how alone I felt in my sorrow.

Speaker 25 I remember the letter being tear-soaked. I sobbed and released.
everything that happened to me.

Speaker 25 I told him I was in an abusive relationship, that I got pregnant, that I made the difficult choice during the time of his incarceration to have an abortion.

Speaker 25 My biggest fear is that I can be like my father.

Speaker 25 I look like my father.

Speaker 5 Every night in the woods there.

Speaker 25 I wonder about DNA.

Speaker 28 Sits a lonesome fighter.

Speaker 25 I know I'm not capable of murder. I know that I could never cross cross that line.

Speaker 28 And he screams my name.

Speaker 29 And so I was surprised.

Speaker 24 A couple months later, I got a letter from my dad back in response.

Speaker 28 And the sound peels out.

Speaker 27 And when I open up the letter,

Speaker 25 first he

Speaker 28 creeps through the trees.

Speaker 29 He mocks me for feeling sorry for myself.

Speaker 24 That's the first part of the letter.

Speaker 27 It's just like, I'm having a pity party.

Speaker 29 And then the second part of the letter, he said,

Speaker 24 you deserve to be in prison with me.

Speaker 24 You're a killer just like me.

Speaker 19 Happy Face is a production of How Stuff Works. Executive producers are Melissa Moore, Lauren Bright-Pacheco, Mangesha Ticketer, and Will Pearson.
Supervising producer is Noel Brown.

Speaker 19 Music by Claire Campbell, Paige Campbell, and Hope for a Golden Summer. Story editor is Matt Riddle.
Audio editing by Chandler Mays and Noel Brown. Assistant editor is Taylor Chacoyne.

Speaker 6 Ah, greetings from my bath, festive friends.

Speaker 9 The holidays are overwhelming, overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money, getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

Speaker 12 No fees, no interest.

Speaker 13 I used it to get this portable spa with jets.

Speaker 14 Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body.

Speaker 15 Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal.

Speaker 16 Save the offer in the app. NS1231, see paypal.com slash promo terms.

Speaker 17 Points give you redeemed for cash and more paying for subject to terms and approval.

Speaker 18 PayPal Inc. at MLS 910-457.

Speaker 36 Hey guys, it's Aaron Andrews from Calm Down with Aaron and Carissa. So as a sideline sideline reporter, game day is extra busy for me, but I know it can be busy for parents everywhere.

Speaker 36 You're juggling snacks, nap time, and everything else.

Speaker 36 Well, Gerber can help create a more parent-friendly game day because they have the most clean label project certifications of any baby food brand.

Speaker 36 So you can feel good about what you're feeding your little ones. I mean, Mac loves them.
You can't go wrong with the little crunchies.

Speaker 36 You just put him in a little bag or you put him in a little container and he's good to go. Make sure to pick up your little one's favorite Gerber products at a store near you.

Speaker 37 This is Matt Rogers from Los Culturists with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Los Culture Sos with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
Hey, Bowen, it's gift season. Ugh, stressing me out.

Speaker 37 Why are the people I love so hard to shop for? Probably because they only make boring gift guides that are totally uninspired. Except for the guide we made.

Speaker 37 In partnership with Marshalls, where premium gifts meet incredible value, it's giving gifts.

Speaker 38 With categories like best gifts for the mom whose idea of a sensible walking shoe is a stiletto or best gifts for me that were so thoughtful I really shouldn't have.

Speaker 37 Check out the guide on marshalls.com and gift the good stuff at marshalls.

Speaker 32 Big things are happening at your local CVS. Extra big.

Speaker 32 You don't want to miss these extra big deals and more are coming every two weeks. So keep coming back.
Use your extra care card to unlock savings every time you shop.

Speaker 32 Extra care is the way to save at CVS. So if you're not a member yet, join for free online or in-store and start saving.

Speaker 32 Visit your local CVS store or cvs.com/slash extra big deals to shop this week's deals.

Speaker 3 This is an iHeart Podcast.