Truth and Lies

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I made a podcast called Bombing about absolutely tanking on stage. I tell gnarly stories, and I talk to friends about their worst moments of bombing in all sorts of ways.
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Learn how our cash management services can support your business at valleystrong.com. I've heard a lot of different theories about my biological father.
I have heard that he was a reporter.

I heard that he was somebody that worked with her at the post office. I heard that it was another inmate's husband.
I've heard that it was just some guy off the street. She knew she was going to get pregnant and she wanted to get pregnant and just picked the first guy she saw.
So, you know, I don't know. In 1983, Diane Downs shot her three children, killing her daughter Cheryl and forever altering the lives of not only her two surviving children, but the other people in her life.
Before her imprisonment, she purposely set out to give birth to another child who would incidentally become another life permanently changed by Diane's actions. There's a tired old idiom that people often use when confronting the things they've buried and hidden.
The truth will set you free. The fact is, sometimes the truth is its own prison.
Like when the truth of who your father is becomes a dark shadow that follows you and suffocates you until you finally are forced to confront it. When 11-year-old Becky found out her biological

mother was Diane Downs, it disrupted her identity and changed the course of her behavior and her

life. Now she's seeking the other half of that puzzle, the identity of her biological father,

someone who may or may not even know she exists. Will that truth help bring balance to the weight

of her own truth, or will it only further add to the chaos of her self-image? Without knowing for sure the identity of Becky's father, one has to wonder if he himself is even aware that Becky is his. It crosses my mind sometimes.
I mean, maybe he just doesn't want to believe that I could be that child or that he could be that father. Because I've been public now for 10 years with my story, and if my biological father wanted to find me, he would have.
The only things I can come up with are he doesn't know he's my biological father. He doesn't want to be my biological father or he's deceased.
I mean, if you are intimate with somebody and nine months later there's a baby, I would question that. There was very little physical description of the father given, and what's there didn't help narrow down the possibilities.
My adopted mom, she told me that on my adoption paperwork that he was listed as being like 6'2", blonde hair, blue eyes. That's all I know.
I think that he's German or Danish and that's it. I don't know anything else.
There's a certain piece to Becky's current situation. She's lived her entire life up to this point not knowing the identity of her biological father.
And as far as she knows, he could be anyone. Someone good, someone interesting, someone loving, someone ready to embrace his long-lost daughter with open arms.
He could fit any template Becky wants or needs him to. I can decide who he is.
And I can, you know, think that he's an amazing person. And even if he's not, as long as he's a decent human being, I'd be happy.
But I'm scared to go on this journey because what if he is, you know, deceased? What if he doesn't want me in his life? It's very, very scary to open this door. But I am very lucky to have the parents that I do have.
It's not just Becky's biological father who isn't a part of her life, but her two half-siblings, Christy and Danny, survivors of Diane's attack, also live their own private lives, independent of any real relationship with Becky. I did reach out to them back in 2006.
I found Christy online. We had a little bit of a conversation going.
We spoke every couple of days. She told me a little bit about herself.
I told her about myself. And one day I got a message that her and Danny don't want anything to do with me, that so much time had passed, they don't want to get to know me.
More rejection. Christy and Danny knew about Becky, that they were related,

that they shared the similar link, and still wanted nothing to do with her. And it's understandable what they went through.
I could never even imagine, and maybe being in my life or meeting me would bring up some of that for them. I'm not sure.
Becky also reached out to Diane's father. I've spoken with Diane Downs' father, Wes.
He was a sweet man. He wanted to tell me a lot of the family history, but he also wanted to tell me about Diane and about her case and how she's innocent.
Becky didn't set out with the intention of speaking to Diane's father about the crime, but to some extent, it was unavoidable. I asked both Diane and her father when we first spoke all those years ago that I didn't want to hear about her guilt or her innocence.
I just want to hear about her. I just want to know about the family.
I just want to know about my biological father. I wanted to leave the case out of it because I knew that all they were going to do is try and convince me that she's innocent.
I just wanted to know them, that side of my family.

Is there a part of you that questions whether she's innocent? Diane's innocence has been a question for a lot of people for a long time. I don't believe she's innocent, no, but I know that people do.
There are some people, like Diane herself, who champion her innocence to this day. Her brother, James Fredrickson, is one of them.
James was one of the only family members willing to talk to Becky and me about Diane and their family history. He believes that part of understanding who Diane was is understanding her relationship with her ex-husband, Steve, who she blames for much of what she became.
She sent James a letter detailing her marriage and relationships leading up to the shooting, which is, oddly, written mostly in third person. James shares a bit of that here.
Basically, Steve came into our lives in 1971. We'd moved Chandler to a farm, and Steve was a farmhand for the neighbors.
My mom and dad wanted my sister to date other boys, but, you know, she was head over heels for Steve, and obviously Steve was head over heels for her. A judge married them on November 13, 1973, with only Greg Roach and the judge's secretary as witnesses because Diane had no friends of her own at that time.
She said that she got married and whatever the date was, right? But the reality is that, you know, she got married because my dad went over to their house where they were at in the apartment of abuse,

which often begins with rising tension and the need to placate the abuser.

According to Diane, Steve began this cycle early into his and Diane's relationship.

Steve controlled everyone she talked to, and he didn't let her talk to anyone.

She was working then when they married.

She was talking to other guys at lunchtime, and so he made her quit. He didn't permit a phone in her apartment.
The grocery store was a three-minute walk from where they lived at 100 West Ray Road, but she wasn't even permitted to go shopping without him. My sister was barely 18 and in her own mind going on 12 and had never given her new husband, caused a suspect or infidelity, but he was just sick with suspicion and jealousy.
Soon after they married, Steve was openly unfaithful to Diane. Two weeks after their marriage, Steve came home from work at the tire company where he worked in Mesa and announced he was going out with Janet, the receptionist.
Diane was a bit confused by that. They were married, after all.
Steve blew up, and he said, Hey, I promised Janet they'd go out. The marriage vows came so quickly he forgot to call off their date.
He said Diane just needed to iron his shirt and not make things harder for him. One month later, Steve went out with his buddies for New Year.
Diane was told to wait at home until 11.45. She got tired of waiting and she walked to his friend's house.
She did what she was told, but Steve wasn't there. Then they told Diane she'd have to wait in the line behind Debbie.
So Steve was at the party with other women. Diane was pregnant with Christy, her oldest daughter, and allegedly Steve saw this as an inconvenience and didn't want to deal with her.
Two months later, Diane got pregnant. She had morning sickness like most women do, but instead of Steve hanging around and supporting her, Steve took her to his parents' home in Gilbert because he wasn't ready to live with a sick wife.
While Diane was at his parents' house, Steve moved in with Jackie.

When Jackie's husband, Dale, returned from California, Steve retrieved Dale from exile.

These are just little parts about the infidelity.

So then we start talking about the abuse.

Man.

According to Diane, Steve wasn't only controlling and unfaithful, but his abuse crossed the threshold into physical. In the meantime, Diane had a second child, Danny, and another daughter, Cheryl.
In 1982, Diane was talking on the phone. Steve came home, heard her talking on the phone.
He thought she was talking to a man on the phone, so he picked up the phone and slammed it down. They argued, and he slapped and punched her, and the phone rang, and Diane obviously answered it.
And it was actually Holly on the phone, saying that Karen was afraid Steve was hitting her. Diane looked at Steve and said to Holly, yes, he is.
He's still here. So he grabbed the phone, and he hit Diane with it.
She wrestled the phone from home, hung it up, and engaged him. Diane and Steve were divorced at this point, but he still lived with her and the kids.
Eventually, the abuse reached a breaking point and she started to fight back. A judge issued a restraining order, but Steve didn't stay away.
In the meantime, Diane had bought a gun in an effort to protect herself. And then one day, Steve had her cornered in a bathroom.
When he was kicking the door open, she fired a warning shot into the floor. The next week, he moved his furniture out of her home.
It was as stealthy as he moved in. That was September 14, 1982.
In October of that year, Diane's four-month-old mobile home burned down, and she sent her kids to live with Steve so they wouldn't be homeless. She eventually found another place to live, but Steve wouldn't allow her to have the children back.
During this time, Diane saw affection from other men. Yeah, she was seeing Nick at that time.
Nick is Robert Knickerbocker, a married man who supposedly didn't like children, a fact that some believe may have later played into Diane's motivation for the shooting. Married men showed her the most affection because married men were safe to her.
Because married men didn't want to leave their wives, they just wanted some affection. And really, that's all Diane ever really wanted.
She was still that 12-year-old little girl striving for that affection.

And she went out and she got that affection from married men.

Well, I just found out that my dad lived a secret life as a hitman for the chicago mafia for all these years it doesn't make any sense he was a firefighter paramedic how the hell can he be a hitman i need answers so i am currently on a plane back to chicago to interview everybody Anybody that knows anything about this. I'm in shock.
This is absolutely insane. I just don't understand.
I need to figure this out. The shocking new true crime series, Crook County, from Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts is available now.
Binge the entire series for free on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Cyrus the Great of Persia was a conqueror, and he tried to increase his empire by marrying Tamiris, the widow of the king of the Massenghetti people.
She refused his offer, and so he decided that he would invade her kingdom instead. Turns out, that was a big mistake.
To hear the full story of Tamiris' Bloody revenge, listen to the latest episode of Noble Blood available now. New episodes of Noble Blood every Tuesday.
Listen to Noble Blood on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1.

I just knew him as a kid.

Long, silent voices from his past came forward.

And he was just staring at me.

And they had secrets of their own to share.

Gilbert King, I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott. I was no longer just telling the story.
I was part of it. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer.
He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.
If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed.

I never expected to find myself in this place. Now, I need to tell you how I got here.
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Bone Valley, Season 2.
Jeremy. Jeremy, I want to tell you something.
Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2

starting April 9th on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad-free with exclusive content starting April 9th, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.
Diane's attention from other men is what led to her earlier divorce from Steve. Despite his own unfaithfulness, he believed she'd actually become pregnant with Danny due to an affair.
He ended their marriage believing the pregnancy shouldn't have been possible due to vasectomy. Diane, it seemed, enjoyed being pregnant.
She had a fourth child before Becky, but this time as a surrogate. So yeah, it was just basically, she went through the surrogacy program, delivered a baby, gave it to a family.
She got $10,000 for that, and that helped her in her life, right? When Diane became pregnant with Becky, James dismissed it as if it were almost like another surrogacy. But I wasn't going to have another niece and nephew.
I was basically having another surrogate child. I wasn't attached to it.
I wasn't bonded with it. I wasn't any of that.
After Diane's trial and Becky's birth, James didn't give the baby much thought. Yeah, they took her away.
I mean, I knew that she existed, but I didn't know anything about her. And that was that.
Out of sight, out of mind. And then one day, Becky appeared on 2020.
James' first impression was not a great one. What did you think when you first saw her on a news program? Honest answer, I didn't understand why she was making a fuss out of something if she had two perfectly wonderful loving parents.
I don't remember what exactly she said, but she basically said that she's going to make sure that Diane doesn't gain parole. I didn't like her at all.
James had made an earlier attempt to contact Becky and tried to convert her to his version of the truth. I reached out to her on social media and we talked and I tried talking to her about what I know is truth and the story that she knows is the public story, the Ann Rule story.
She really wasn't willing to listen. Did that frustrate you? It's always frustrating.
Yeah. Every single time.
Watching 2020, James grew increasingly frustrated with Ann Rule, author of the book Becky first discovered in the bookstore as an 11-year-old. He believed that she had many things about Diane's story and the crime wrong, and that Becky's view of her biological mother's guilt had been colored by that book.
He also doesn't believe that Anne knew the identity of Becky's father, despite her claims. So people that are adopted, some of them have a desire to find out who they come from, whether it's Diane the murderer or Diane the victim.
She still knows that she comes from Diane and she doesn't know who her father is. And unfortunately, there's only two people that do.
The author didn't know who the father was because she wasn't there during conception and has never been told by my sister who the person is. The only people that know are the mother and the father of Becky.
It was some guy in her route.

You know what I mean?

It wasn't even a coworker.

It was just some guy in her route.

You know, I mean, I don't have any idea who it is.

He knows.

Or maybe he doesn't.

I would imagine so.

I don't know.

Yeah, Diane's never told him, so maybe he doesn't.

You know, because I mean, it's like, you know, she had a reputation of sleeping around, you know what I mean?

She didn't, but that was her reputation.

So, I mean, as a guy, if you're just, you know, sleeping with somebody just once or twice,

then, you know, it's like you're not really concerned whether that person gets pregnant or not until they come knocking on your door. And so, no, he may not know.
He may not know. Despite the fact that James and Becky didn't see eye to eye in his earlier attempts to contact her, he wants another chance to explain, which may be his primary reason for his willingness to meet with her again.
Ten years ago on the social media, and then via phone, and then she didn't really want anything to do with the truth. As we've stated earlier, you know, it's like talking about some of the letters that Diane wrote her after being in solitary.
You need to believe that she's psychotic. You need to believe that she's a deviant sociopath or whatever those words are that they're throwing out there.
But she wasn't willing to listen is my whole point. I talked to her then.
She did not listen. And I'm hoping today she listens.
And I'm always willing to talk to anybody who's willing to listen because the truth needs to be out there. While I spoke to James, Becky was waiting in the studio to speak with him.
Before bringing her in, I spoke to her alone for a few minutes to gauge her feelings on the situation and brief her on what to expect. I've been talking to James here, asking him about his feelings today about meeting you, finding out his intentions.
When we first got in the studio, he's quite overwhelmed because

there's so much he wanted to share. And then what I found interesting though, is that he really, really cared about today and wanted to come today with something sort of as an offering of information that he could provide.

First of all, he has a letter from Diane

and it's written to Amy, to you, and it's going to talk about her time being pregnant with you. Wow.
Yeah. One thing that I am concerned about is Diane still denies that I'm her biological daughter.
And so this letter is written to Amy, who I guess I don't identify with because she doesn't claim to be my biological mother. So there's been like a disconnect there.
I'm not sure how to respond when James reads that letter because my initial like knee-jerk reaction would be uncomfortable and upset. The truth is, is that regardless of the name Amy or Rebecca, you were that baby.
It doesn't feel like that, you know? It feels like almost a separate person completely, especially because she doesn't believe that it's me. She may not believe it's you, but your physical being had that experience as a newborn, as a child, as a baby girl coming into this world.
And regardless of name, it was your experience. I wrote her back in 2006 when I put my son up for adoption, wanting to connect with her.
It feels like this letter that you guys have been talking about is almost going to be that connection that I needed back then. And after we had such a meltdown with her in the last letter where she was very cruel, I don't want that connection with her.
So I'm nervous about

hearing this letter and I don't know how I'll feel. If I'm being completely transparent and honest,

I'm almost scared that I want to have that connection. Like there's that conflict of

being the adopted child that you want that connection with your biological parents.

But it's a battle in my heart and my head because I don't want to be connected to her. All right, so how are we going to do this? Because he's going to want to say hi the moment he walks through the door.
It's fine. Or she's bringing it right now, the recording.
Hold on. Yeah, we've got it set up.
Ready? James, this is Becky. Hi.
Hi. Good to see you.
Yeah, how was your trip? It was good. Yeah.
It was good. Yeah.
And how are you? Nervous? Getting through it. It's a little different.
Yeah, like we were mentioning, it's the first time I've actually met anybody from the biological family. So it's different.

So this is all different too.

After some setup and light chit-chat,

they get right into it.

James immediately begins to read the letter he received from Diane.

It says, I was four and a half months pregnant

when I was arrested.

Amy and I were locked in a jail cell alone

for nearly four months before she was born.

She gave me the strength to keep calm during the trial. Every day I'd tell her that she was going to be okay.
I'd pat her bottom and rub her back and comb her. I didn't let myself get consumed with worry for her sake.
Then when we returned to our jail cell after my first day on the witness stand, there was a court order waiting in our concrete slab bed. The state had seized custody of Amy, even before she was born.
The trial wasn't even over yet, and the state was taking her. I was physically ill, but couldn't dwell on it because I didn't want Amy to feel my pain.
It was a different story after she was gone. I cried and cried.
It felt like I'd lost a friend as much as a child. That's a loss from which I'll never recover.
That's what my sister said about you. Wow.
So I didn't realize that she felt that way. There's been pictures painted of my sister as being a callous person, not a good mother.
That's the way she felt about all of her kids. That's not the way she felt about the surrogate child.
You're not a surrogate child. I struggle with her connection with me because of the fact that she got pregnant with me on purpose because she knew she could.
And she wanted to replace Cheryl. And she knew that she would get sympathy from the courts and and that those are Ann Rule's words those are writer's words those aren't true okay isn't it I I saw something about it I've never read Ann Rule's book there was one of her recordings or something that I thought I don't know know.
Anyways, I never knew she felt that way.

James shifts almost immediately into defensive mode with regards to Diane.

There's a bit of tension between James and Becky,

and James is eager to push through his agenda for meeting.

So when did she write that?

About two weeks ago.

Wow.

I asked her to share something with me because she doesn't want,

I said, the world needs to understand what you felt like when you were having the baby taken away. She said, she can't really talk about when the baby was taken away because she's crying.
She cried and cried. What else is there to say? She was induced.
She didn't even have it natural. They told the court before she was convicted that they're going to take the baby away.
They told the jurors that. Already

finding her guilty before the jurors even started

deliberating.

It is really interesting.

It's very interesting.

And she did

I don't think the word replace

is a good word to say

because you can never replace you with another baby. She can't replace Cheryl with another baby.
She can't replace Christy with another baby. You're her daughter, and you're very much loved.
The state did not want you to be raised by her or see the family, so you were given to another family. So I feel a sort of a disconnect.
I reached out to Diane, I think it was in 2006, and her first couple letters were, you know, oh, my gosh, I've always known where you were. I knew you'd write me someday.
They were excited and happy. But now to this day, you know, she denies that I'm her biological child.
Yeah. There's a lot of letters in between too, right? Yeah.
Crazy letters, we might say, right? They're pretty intense, yeah, and threatening and, you know, saying that there's been somebody watching me my whole life and trying to kill me and scary stuff. Whenever she did that, did you feel like you were watching a movie and that she was threatening you from in the jail? Or did you feel like that she was being sincere? She was truly worried for you because, again, she didn't commit this crime, right? Whoever did this to her is still out there.
And if you are her child, in her opinion, then you're in danger. Things with James start to grow a bit tense.
There's not a single person that I know that is backing me in doing this because the media has been very violent, very vile. And the media is one of the reasons why I don't want to use the word fearful to meet you, but I wasn't looking forward to meeting you.
They go back and forth about the details surrounding Diane's public behavior at the time of the shooting and her seeming lack of emotion when reenacting the scene. Becky pokes holes in James' argument for Diane's innocence, which he repeatedly defends.
I can tell you that for many years, I've been very angry at you, mainly because when I tried to talk to you, you didn't want to talk to me. One of the things that you said was the purpose of doing what you're doing is so you can be sure that Diane does not get parole, right? Now, I don't want to be a part of that.
I don't want to be a part of somebody that was trying to keep my sister in prison because how she acts is just, I've never been shot. I've never had my child killed in front of me.
You know what I mean? And I just, it's just, how are you supposed to act? Well, you're wrong. Because you don't know.
Right. You know what I mean? At this point, the tension is palpable.

Straight out English language, I could not in any way, shape, or form be a part of somebody's life that thought my sister was guilty. I understand that.
And really, my life is now consumed with my sister, which is why I'm sitting here. And what I want, what I believe, is that if you looked at not actions and evidence, that there would be no doubt that she would believe that she's innocent.
I understand that you came here solely to speak of her innocence and not to meet me. I wanted to reach out to you to give you your voice and to get to know you.
So that just really hurts. I talked to your dad for years.
I don't want to be just some person. And I understand that you're angry.
I would be too, but why are you here? My sister's in prison and she doesn't belong there. And I want you to be her mouthpiece.
I want you to go out there and tell the world that she didn't do this. It becomes clear that James believes Diane when she says that whomever she claims is the actual shooter is still out there, a theory he has also adopted.
You want me to be an advocate for her. That's right.
But that would require me to believe she's innocent. That's right.
And why do I, why, why, why, why would I even say that to you? If I didn't believe that if you stopped and you looked at what happened here, and if you looked at everything that I've gotten to show you, if you really had an open mind and you weren't thinking about how crazy she was, there is no doubt in my mind that you would be. And then you could use your voice to help get her out.
Is she your mother? She's my biological mother. I don't constantly say mean things about her.
I defend her even when people, you know, say horrible things. I say she was in solitary for so long.
Even a sane person would go crazy. Those letters that she wrote, I...
They were crazy. She also believed she was protecting you.
Those letters when she was saying to keep quiet, quit talking, because he's still out there. She was protecting you.
That's part of her theory about what happened to her. She believes that she's being watched still.
She believes that we're all still in danger. Do you believe that if she was released, she could get help for her mental issues as is? Do you think she would be safe? I know she would be safe.
It's a really strange talk in her at times because as incoherent about man watching and things like that, she is so incredibly coherent about if she doesn't talk about that, she's incredibly coherent and incredibly normal. There was finally an opening, and Becky decides to ask what she believes

is the most important question she has for James.

Yeah, do you know who my biological father is?

I don't, sorry.

I do know that he was a guy on our postal route,

is all I know.

There's only one person that knows.

We were talking earlier,

and it's like the father may not even know he's a father.

And that's what I'm thinking.

It's either he's passed away, he doesn't know, or he doesn't want to know. She didn't tell him.
She didn't tell him she was pregnant. James and Becky finally both have their respective agendas for the conversation out in the open.
For James, Diane's innocence. And for Becky, her biological father's identity.
James agrees to take a DNA test to help her in her quest. I mean, I think that would be wonderful.
It might settle Diane a little bit to know for real. It might help me find my biological father.
It might. Probably not, but it might.
It'll let you know your heritage. So that's cool.
Yeah, that's what they say. My heritage, I'm from Denmark.
About two or three years ago

my dad probably told you right

yeah from Denmark

Denmark royalty

I don't feel complete

I don't feel complete

talking to you I want to

I feel like

you've judged her because of how

she acts and I just

believe that if you need to

open

your

looking for things

Thank you. her because of how she acts.
And I just believe that if you need to open, you're looking for things.

And I'm not saying you're looking in the wrong area because nowhere you look is wrong.

But maybe you need to look at what was done to her, what was done to her.

So you couldn't be with her even. They stopped you from being with her.
She didn't stop it. They stopped it.
James calms a bit and sort of seems to regret being so outwardly aggressive, but still can't help pushing his agenda. I mean, I understand that you have a lot of emotion, right? And I'm sorry if I, just your emotion.
I just need you to really think about.

You can send it to me an email.

This is why I think Diane did this.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you, guys.

I think that's a wrap for today.

That was a lot for both of you. No apologies.

No.

I really, really do care, right? Thank you. I don't want

you to be sad. I don't want anybody to be sad for any reason.
Yeah. And believe me when I said that,

I mean that with my heart, that I believe that you're going to be your voice. I don't,

I didn't see it, envision it or anything. It's just my heart believes that.
Yeah.

My heart believes that. Well, we can definitely believes that.
Yeah. My heart believes that.

Well, we can definitely talk more.

We'll follow up on this.

It's hard to say if Becky got what she wanted

from the interaction with James.

It's the first member of the Fredrickson side of the family

who's agreed to meet with her

and have a real conversation about Diane.

So in many ways, it's as close as Becky has ever been to the maternal side of her family line.

Despite the tension between them,

James agreed to give Becky a key piece of the puzzle to help confirm her genetic identity, his DNA.

With this, Becky will hopefully finally be able to confirm once and for all

that she's in fact the biological daughter of Diane

Downs. On the next episode of Happy Face Presents Two-Face, we unpack the details of exactly what

happened on that fateful night in May of 1983, when Diane Downs and her three children arrived

at that Springfield, Oregon hospital,