The Secret

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Speaker 8 Jackie, to me, epitomized everything that a person would want in a mom. She was patient.
She was caring.

Speaker 8 She was affectionate, physically affectionate with the girls, which both Chris and Jackie were like that, but she was definitely very maternal.

Speaker 8 And even with me, I mean, gosh, I can't even tell you how many times I would go to her and cry about something. I went to her for advice all the time.

Speaker 8 I absolutely looked up to her, and she was so nurturing in everything that she did.

Speaker 9 The voice you heard belongs to Alina, a woman who babysat Becky and her sister for many years. Now 34 years old, Becky lives a normal life like everyone else.

Speaker 9 But what's unusual about her story is that her biological mother is convicted killer Diane Downs. Diane was ordered by the state to place Becky, then Amy, up for adoption.

Speaker 9 She went to live a peaceful life with her adoptive parents, Jackie and Chris, in Bend, Oregon.

Speaker 9 Becky had a great home life and her parents provided her with a good home environment and treated her well.

Speaker 11 They were amazing. I mean, we had 80 acres.
We did forage and had horses and all the animals you could think of. We lived on the river.
It was ideal to be a place to raise children.

Speaker 11 And so my sister was adopted first, and then four years later, my parents adopted me.

Speaker 9 Alina is the very same babysitter whom Becky tricked into revealing her biological mother's identity. Alina remembers the interaction.

Speaker 11 From there, I went to the bookstore and I had to have my parents take me, obviously, because I was a kid.

Speaker 11 And I found the book by Anne Roll and I thumbed through the pages and went straight to the pictures. That was like the moment reality said that this woman is actually my biological mom.

Speaker 11 And more so, the reality said that my parents weren't my real parents.

Speaker 11 I always knew they were not my real parents, but it was the fact that now there was this third person. Now there was reality of who my biological mother was.

Speaker 11 I think it had been three years of asking that it just, I didn't think I'd ever know. And at that point, I wish I hadn't known.
It was really scary.

Speaker 9 Becky was able to mostly forget about Diane for a few years.

Speaker 11 It was that answer to the question, you know, and so I was able to let that go. And it was more of just the needing to know.
And now that I knew, I didn't want to know.

Speaker 11 So I just kind of buried it deep.

Speaker 9 It stayed buried for a while until Becky decided to share her secret.

Speaker 11 When I was 16 I had told a boyfriend who Diane Downs was and it was just during that get to know you phase you know he had asked if I had anything that I never told anybody before you know a secret

Speaker 11 and that was the biggest secret I had so I told him one day he said you know let's watch a movie come on over to my house I remember sitting on his futon and he popped the tape in and then he left the room to go make snacks or something and

Speaker 11 and that's when it started playing and you know you see the small sacrifices

Speaker 11 it was difficult to watch farah fawcet as diane downs and

Speaker 11 to let that story unfold in front of me you can't look away but i did not want to watch it but i couldn't stop watching it

Speaker 9 at the bookstore becky saw the pictures of her mom in the book, but didn't read it. So watching this was the first time she'd heard the entire story.

Speaker 11 I don't even know the words to explain how it felt. It killed a little part of my innocence, in a sense, just to know that that's really where I'm biologically from.

Speaker 11 And I felt so stupid looking back, wanting to know for so long, and I understand why my mom didn't want to tell me.

Speaker 9 Becky finally understood where she had come from and the woman who had given birth to her.

Speaker 11 The part that really got me was when Diane was holding that baby that was a representation of who I am, and

Speaker 11 it became real. It's like that's me, in a sense.
And the fact that she held me and

Speaker 11 it was uncomfortable and really difficult to watch.

Speaker 9 After the discovery of who her biological mom was, Becky's behavior shifted towards rebellion.

Speaker 11 Looking back now as an adult, I can see that it affects me greatly because it was the beginning of my rebellious years and perhaps that information and not dealing with it appropriately and emotionally that it caused me to go off the rails a little bit.

Speaker 9 Becky came to resent the secrecy and the hidden facts about where she came from.

Speaker 9 She also saw part of her identity in Diane, not being prepared emotionally to the jarring physical resemblance to Diane, causing her to question who she was.

Speaker 11 After I saw the video and really got the full idea of who Diane Downs was,

Speaker 11 I just kind of stopped caring. I shut down inside somehow, and I had already been pretty rebellious, but at that age, it was more destructive, rebellion, self-destruction.

Speaker 11 Partying, sleeping around drugs running away you know I wasn't living at home at that point it was scary I guess looking back now I'm amazed I'm still alive by some of the situations I would put myself in

Speaker 11 At 17 is when I decided that I'm going nowhere in life and I'm just a disappointment to everybody. So I needed to do something and I joined the army.

Speaker 11 And the day that I shipped out for boot camp, they told me I was pregnant.

Speaker 9 Before being shipped off to boot camp, recruits are subject to a battery of tests. And for women, this includes a last-minute pregnancy test.

Speaker 11 As I walked by, they said, okay, everybody's clear. And as I walked by, I looked down at them and there was one positive.
And I was like, um, excuse me.

Speaker 11 You know, it's like, is that mine? And

Speaker 11 they're like, oh my gosh, sit right here. And they made me wait for hours.
They didn't tell me anything.

Speaker 11 They did call my dad, though, because I was 17. And they called and told him.
And that was awful.

Speaker 10 They told him before you? Yeah.

Speaker 11 And I begged them. I said, please don't tell my dad.
You know, he can't. Let me at least tell him that I'm pregnant.

Speaker 9 Becky's parents were supportive to an extent, but for the most part, she was on her own.

Speaker 11 After finding out that I was pregnant, I stayed in Portland for a while and continued to hang out with some of the same people that weren't very healthy for me. I wasn't doing any drugs.

Speaker 11 I quit smoking and I talked with my dad and I tried to come home. But they said, you know, we raised our children.
This is something you need to do on your own.

Speaker 11 They paid for me to have a house. So I could raise my child.
And my dad said that every parent needs to be home for at least the first two years of a child's life.

Speaker 11 So they helped me for the first two years, even though I couldn't live with them and they wouldn't like really help me raise him.

Speaker 11 They were there the whole time and they made it possible that I could have my child and that I could take care of him and be that hands-on parent.

Speaker 9 With Christian, Becky discovered that she loved being a mom.

Speaker 11 In the beginning, when Christian was little, I didn't have time to think.

Speaker 11 You know, sleep deprived and always caring for a little baby. I loved being a mom.

Speaker 11 I never really worried about my genes transferring to him. He was perfect in my eyes.
Maybe it's how my mom felt when she looked at me, you know, and accepted me into their family

Speaker 11 as I just didn't see any

Speaker 11 negative things or anything bad. I just saw this perfect little child.

Speaker 11 And so I didn't worry who he was going to grow up to be.

Speaker 9 Becky started dating a coworker and fell in love. And then by choice, Becky got pregnant a second time.

Speaker 11 At that point, things started to go wrong. Before we got pregnant, we drank a lot.
We were still partying quite a bit. And I had to sober up and do things right because I was pregnant.

Speaker 11 We just realized we didn't really like each other anymore. And we didn't know who each other was without the alcohol and staying up all night partying and that sort of stuff.

Speaker 9 And then things got worse. Without warning, the father of her child just left.

Speaker 11 I was just destroyed. I was heartbroken.
I was pregnant with my second child. I was, you know, I couldn't afford where I was living because I couldn't work.
It was a high-risk pregnancy.

Speaker 11 I was bedridden for most of it. I didn't want to give up on our family, so I ended up staying in a homeless shelter because I couldn't work.

Speaker 9 After speaking to her parents, Becky decided the best option would be to put the second child up for adoption.

Speaker 11 They said that if I would think about adoption and do what's best for both the children, that I could stay with them until the baby was born.

Speaker 11 And they were right. I was homeless.
I was a single mom.

Speaker 11 I couldn't raise two children, even though it

Speaker 11 even though I really wanted to.

Speaker 11 I didn't want to give my son away, but it was what's best for both of them.

Speaker 9 The birth of Becky's second child was emotionally and physically challenging.

Speaker 11 So then it gets to the point where it's time to be induced because it was a high-risk pregnancy. They wanted to just kind of, you know, move things along.

Speaker 11 I was there by myself because my family was too hard on them. It broke their heart to let him go as well.

Speaker 11 It hurt in so many ways, you know, emotionally and physically and everything just hurt.

Speaker 11 And then he was born

Speaker 11 and he was perfect.

Speaker 11 They told me, you know, that I could spend as much time with him as I wanted and, you know, just hold him. But I knew that if I didn't let him go, that I would never let him go.

Speaker 9 They just had to take him because

Speaker 11 I couldn't let go.

Speaker 11 I was devastated and I didn't know who to talk to. I didn't know anybody else that had put their child up for adoption and had that loss.

Speaker 11 For some reason, I thought about contacting Diane.

Speaker 9 I understand how she felt. I, too, did a similar thing.
I had reached out to my father in a letter to his prison as a teen, telling him about my abortion,

Speaker 9 thinking I'd find a soft place to share, that he couldn't be judgmental as he was serving multiple life sentences.

Speaker 9 It doesn't make sense logically, but in the moment of desperation and a need for connection, he was the only person I thought would be in a place to listen and to care.

Speaker 11 One night, I was especially sad and

Speaker 11 And I just wondered if Diane ever felt what I felt in that moment. I just needed somebody that I could relate to.
I didn't need a mother. I had one, but I needed somebody that

Speaker 11 had been through it and she went through it with me. There was that connection.
It was my biological mom who held me and who let me go.

Speaker 11 And for that brief moment, I just wanted to know that she was human.

Speaker 9 Becky reached out with a fairly ordinary letter, just describing herself, and Diane responded.

Speaker 11 She responds fairly normal, the first letter, actually. It was telling me what she looked like and where she was born and

Speaker 11 just general, really nice things. I got the letter and I was almost like, okay, this isn't so bad.

Speaker 11 Maybe I didn't make a mistake in writing her because after I put that letter in the mailbox, my heart sank. I was just, what did I do? Why did I do that?

Speaker 11 Ever since the day that I sent that first letter, I was terrified of what the letter coming back would be, but it was excited, terrified.

Speaker 9 The correspondence with Diane didn't last long.

Speaker 11 I think there was only like six letters in total exchanged. I wrote her my first letter about a week and a half later.

Speaker 11 So she had to have written me that day that she received the letter and sent it back because it was a very quick turnaround.

Speaker 11 And so then I responded, you know, a few days after receiving her letter. And I think that I, in this second letter, I asked about my biological father.

Speaker 11 And I asked who he was and if I could know him and where he was.

Speaker 9 Diane was a clinical narcissist and couldn't stand the idea that the focus was no longer on her.

Speaker 11 She just got angry and said she was never going to tell me and why would I ask those questions and I don't need to know and just avoided it in every way possible.

Speaker 9 After writing to Diane for a while, she begins to see the parallels between their lives and behavior. Becky begins to wonder if she's a psychopath just like Diane.

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Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 6 So I'm talking with her and I said, you know what? If at some point you would like to tell your story, I could help you get your story told somewhere.

Speaker 9 After Eric's first meeting with Becky, he began to explore the idea that he could be the person to help tell her story, to finally give her a chance to let the world know about her from her own point of view.

Speaker 6 I think there was this sort of this Diane-shaped void inside of her that she's always trying to bring the drugs and the men and everything to.

Speaker 6 I mean, she would talk about really sort of crying out to God and saying, please help me. I don't know who I really am.
Am I just the daughter of this crazy killer?

Speaker 6 Or am I this person who's going to have my own life and my own identity? And I don't want to be known as the daughter of Diane Downs anymore.

Speaker 9 By going to the media, this was a way for Becky to take back control of her identity.

Speaker 6 It was this thirst and this quenched for identity. But also, in addition to identity, it was also,

Speaker 6 how much do I want Diane to be a part of my future going forward?

Speaker 6 How far do I let Diane in? I think at the end, it was, you know what, I'm satisfied with that.

Speaker 6 And now I'm going to move on and I'm going to decide what I want to do with my life in terms of what I'm going to do to help people and be a person who's kind to other people.

Speaker 9 Eric teamed up with a reporter from the Oregonian, Lisa Grace Ledniser, and they began to shop the story around.

Speaker 6 And at the time, I had really no idea what I would do or how I would do it. But Lisa and I approached several magazines and all of them were like, wow, we'd love that story.

Speaker 9 After some wrestling with their own ideals about how they wanted to present the story, Eric and Lisa finally decided to work with Glamour magazine.

Speaker 6 Well, I mean, there was that debate like, am I just, you know, a conduit in another tawdry story about a killer?

Speaker 6 Or is this somebody who is a microcosm of what you find find out when you find out your family secrets?

Speaker 6 And is this a bigger story about family secrets and what to do with them once you find out about them?

Speaker 6 And so when we sort of came from that angle and then Glamour said, we'll take care of a sidebar about what happens when you find out, you know, that you're related to this over here, then it seemed to take on more of a, a little bit more of a public service story in terms of that everybody has this dark side of a family.

Speaker 6 The pedophile, the murderer, the person who did something and ended up in prison, and how to handle that.

Speaker 9 Becky didn't make telling the story easy. She would be cooperative at times and not at others.

Speaker 6 Well, it was torturous at times. I mean, some days she was really up and ready to tell her story.

Speaker 6 And we, Lisa, and I had gone over and rented a condo for three or four days and she would come and talk at length about it

Speaker 6 and then she'd drop off the face of the earth for a couple weeks and you wouldn't hear from her.

Speaker 9 Becky's parents didn't respond well to her sudden interest in outing herself in the media and her diminishing relationship with them at the time made the experience even more difficult.

Speaker 9 not only for Becky, but for Eric and Lisa as well.

Speaker 6 I think that they sort of made a decision to step back from helping her. And so it was up and it was down and it was God and the devil and light and dark and all these things.

Speaker 6 And that she was influenced by sometimes very small things. And those very small things became big things.

Speaker 6 And so sometimes the article was really on and really going. And then other times it would look like it was going to blow up.
So part of the debate was.

Speaker 6 Are we writing an article about something or are we being taken on a ride that's never going to be an article anywhere for anyone and that we're just going along on this ride and we're going to end up at the bottom of a ravine in the rocks and we wanted to be responsible with somebody's life who was about to share their biggest secret ever the article was published june 2010 and becky's story is officially out there in the world This led to many more media opportunities for Becky.

Speaker 6 I'm not sure quite what the timing of this, but Oprah is finally winding down her show

Speaker 6 and Oprah says, would you like to be on with me? And she comes up very well on Oprah. Did you, have you seen Oprah? No, I didn't watch her tape yet.
Oh, okay. Yeah.

Speaker 9 During the Oprah appearance, Oprah replays a clip from a 1988 interview with Diane, where Oprah tries to find out the identity of Becky's father, but is only given what Diane claimed was the date of conception, which at the time was the only clue into her biological father's identity identity that Becky had.

Speaker 9 There was only one other person who supposedly knew the identity of Becky's father, Anne Ruhl.

Speaker 9 Becky met with her on the 2020 piece when the show did a two-hour feature on Becky and the case and took her to meet Anne.

Speaker 9 When Becky asked Anne Ruhl who her father was, she refused to give out his name.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I think Anne had

Speaker 6 made,

Speaker 6 like a journalist, journalist, deals to get the story and be able to keep the anonymity. And we all understand that.
And I figured, well, I mean,

Speaker 6 to be able to get that story, you got to promise whatever the person wants to do.

Speaker 9 I get the sense that he's right underneath our nose, that he's right in the area. I get the sense that he also knows that she exists.

Speaker 6 Well, and I think the reason that you're probably right is because

Speaker 6 Anne was able to have what appears to be a conversation.

Speaker 6 And that I think it's based also on the fact that she was a best-selling author and people would come to her with details. It's like people would stumble over there themselves to get her the story.

Speaker 9 Anne Ruhl passed away in 2015, and thus the mystery of Becky's father remains. She's wondered who he is almost as long as she's known about her mother.

Speaker 6 I mean, it would answer a lot of questions. She was talking about that since the day she walked into the pizza parlor.

Speaker 6 That's what she wanted, and that's what she hopes for, and she believes it's just right around the corner.

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Speaker 9 I came to meet Becky Babcock 10 years ago while filming a documentary. We remained in contact through Facebook and discussed the backlash we'd sometimes received by coming forward in the media.

Speaker 9 Some people, few, believing we saw attention or fame, others knowing our true intention, our desire to connect with others out there so that they don't feel alone.

Speaker 9 That there are other women and men just like them who are related to perpetrators. In Becky's case, she didn't know who her bio-dad was.

Speaker 9 I already knew my entire family background, which tremendously helped me to navigate my identity. So I wanted to help Becky get the answers she needed to know she isn't just like her mom.

Speaker 9 That part of her is also rooted in another family, another story.

Speaker 11 I think it would be an interesting journey to go on. I have a little bit of a disconnect from Diane Downs.
I never refer to her as my mom.

Speaker 11 And if anybody does, I quickly correct them and say biological.

Speaker 11 Because I was blessed to have great parents, which I talk about all the time because I want them to know that even though I'm going on this journey, it has nothing to do with them not being good parents.

Speaker 9 It was 10 years ago now that I first came forward with my secret.

Speaker 9 I had hidden the fact that my father was a serial killer because I was terrified of the public reaction and the potential fallout it would have on my kids and myself.

Speaker 9 So I know exactly the risk when it comes to answering the call to find the truth. There is no control.

Speaker 9 Had I remained silent, I would have probably never have met Becky or the numerous others that have reached out to me that have a killer in their family.

Speaker 10 So I had such a positive experience. And so I thought, I know that in my case, I had a lot of answers.
And in your case, you have so many questions. Right.

Speaker 9 The other voice you're hearing is me. I had lost my voice on the day of this interview.

Speaker 11 I do want to go on a journey to figure out who I am, where I came from, why I do the things that I do.

Speaker 11 And in a sense, I want to know all that so I can leave it in the past. I can stop all those questions.
I can shut down that chapter and move on.

Speaker 11 And I think that that's really big for me right now is I want to know these things because they've been questions I've had for such a huge part of my life.

Speaker 11 It's funny, but my biggest fear is

Speaker 11 my parents being disappointed that I'm public with such deep stories because my parents don't want to be public.

Speaker 11 It's interesting that even everything,

Speaker 10 the questions that I have violate their privacy.

Speaker 11 It does. And it's very, very difficult to talk in public because it's what I need, but it's not what they want and it hurts them.

Speaker 11 Even finding my biological father or going on this amazing quest, there's still in the back of my mind that they're going to be disappointed.

Speaker 10 So there's parts of me that felt incredibly selfish

Speaker 10 and would shame myself for wanting this.

Speaker 10 But what I discovered, my advice to you, is that

Speaker 10 there's no shame in wanting to know what you want to know. And that I have come to learn that I'm not a selfish person for wanting answers, that there's no shame in that.

Speaker 10 Do you think you would get a sense of by knowing who your biological father is, what would that do for you?

Speaker 11 I almost don't want to know because I have this side of me that is from a monster and this other side of me that the other half of me that I don't know. At this point, I can think that it's good.

Speaker 10 You can fill in the blanks.

Speaker 9 Right, I can decide who he is

Speaker 11 and I can think that he's an amazing person.

Speaker 11 Even if he's not, as long as he's a decent human being, I'd be happy, but I'm scared to go on this journey because what if he is, you know, deceased? What if he doesn't want me in his life?

Speaker 10 On this journey, we're going to go on. What are your biggest questions that you would like answered?

Speaker 11 Oh my goodness. There's so many questions I have that I want to have answered throughout all this.

Speaker 11 I want to find my biological father, even if he doesn't want to find me, you know, at least I know and I can put that to rest.

Speaker 11 I want to find out medical history because I've gotten very sick as I've gotten older. And I want to see if that's in my history.

Speaker 11 And if so, if there's anything to do about it, to see if I have any relatives out there that maybe want a relationship.

Speaker 10 I have gone on this journey before in a similar fashion, not exactly in the footsteps you're going to walk, but I'd be honored to be your guide.

Speaker 11 Yeah, I would love that.

Speaker 10 And to walk side by side with you. And I will make every

Speaker 10 expert medical record,

Speaker 10 anything you want I will try and my very best to provide that for you if you're ready and committed to do this I promise you on the other end

Speaker 10 you will be a different person in so many sense of the word of that in a positive way I know that because it's not contingent on other people it's contingent on what you want right and the fact that you're doing this for yourself i'm honored to have you as my guide thank you so much

Speaker 9 My first step with Becky is to take her to meet with the people she's avoided, Diane's family. I would have never expected how that meeting would unfold.

Speaker 9 Next week, join us as Becky and James Frederickson meet for the first time and the surprising letter Diane Downes gave to James to read to her.

Speaker 9 James, this is Becky.

Speaker 6 Hi.

Speaker 6 Hi.

Speaker 6 Good to see you. Yeah, how was your trip? It was good.
Yeah? It was good. Yeah.

Speaker 6 And how are you?

Speaker 6 Nervous? Getting through it.

Speaker 9 Our executive producer is Ben Bolin. Melissa Moore is our co-executive producer.
Maya Cole is our primary producer. And Paul Deccant is our supervising producer.
Our story editor is Matt Riddle.

Speaker 9 Research assistants from Sam Tea Garden. Featured music by Dreamtent.
Happy Face presents To Face is a production of iHeartMedia.

Speaker 13 Fall is the perfect time to explore California in a brand new Toyota hybrid with 17 fuel-efficient options like the stylish all-hybrid Camry, the adventure-ready RAV4 hybrid, or the spacious Grand Highlander hybrid.

Speaker 13 Toyota has the perfect ride for any adventure. Every new Toyota comes with Toyota Care, a two-year complementary scheduled maintenance plan, and an exclusive hybrid battery warranty.

Speaker 13 Visit your local Toyota dealer and test drive one today. Toyota, let's go places.
See your local Toyota dealer for hybrid battery warranty details.

Speaker 14 It's the gaming event of the year featuring T-Pain's Nappy Boy Grizzlies versus Neo's Gentleman's Gaming.

Speaker 15 It's a 4v4 matchup featuring Call of Duty, Tetris, Track Mania, Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 Plus 4, and Tekken 8.

Speaker 14 Season Zero of the Global Gaming League is live streaming on YouTube and Twitch. Head over to globalgaming league.com.

Speaker 14 Global, global, global, global, double, double, double, double. Double, double, double, double, double, double, double.

Speaker 16 Hey guys, it's Aaron Andrews from Calm Down with Erin and Carissa. So as a sideline reporter, game day is extra busy for me, but I know it can be busy for parents everywhere.

Speaker 16 You're juggling snacks, nap time, and everything else.

Speaker 16 Well, Gerber can help create a more parent-friendly game day because they have the most clean label project certifications of any baby food brand.

Speaker 16 So you can feel good about what you're feeding your little ones. I mean, Mac loves them.
You can't go wrong with the little crunchies.

Speaker 16 You just put him in a little bag or you put him in a little container and he's good to go. Make sure to pick up your little ones' favorite Gerber products at a store near you.

Speaker 17 Ah, greetings for my bath, festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money, getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

Speaker 18 No fees?

Speaker 12 No interest. I used it to get this portable spa with jets.

Speaker 18 Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal.

Speaker 19 Save the offer and the app. N1231, see paypal.com slash promo terms, points give your renee for cash and more paying for subject to terms and approval.
PayPal Inc. and MLS 910457.

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.