You’re Stuck In A Painful Dynamic — How To Shift Into Conscious Relationship | Lorin Krenn | Ep 100

We all came here to evolve, and one of the greatest vehicles is through relationship. Spirituality no longer becomes something we do in the morning and we forget about.
It's something in every single moment, because relationship exposes every inch of unconsciousness within us. It's really about sitting in the rawness, being so fully with that.
It's that warrior energy that says, I'm going to face this. With this level of energy, everything starts to change.
Emotions only need 90 seconds to feel them and they move through the nervous system. It's not going to kill you.
It'll actually free you. And when we do that, then intimacy follows deeper connection, growth, trust naturally emerges.
It's meant to be an invitation because love invites, fear demands. Your truth decides for you.
You don't have to make decisions. The only work is to step so fully in our hearts.
So truth always leads and illuminates the path. If we're stuck between two, it means we're not fully in our truth yet.
Welcome back to the Healing and Human Potential podcast. This episode got me emotional and really moved.
I fell deeper in love with my husband and it will serve you whether you're in relationship or not. Learn how to use relationships to support you in thriving and keeping your heart open, even when you want to close down and all your old childhood triggers and traumas come up so that you stay connected with yourself and those in your world.
It's such a beautiful episode where we use relationship as a vehicle for awakening. We're also going to explore polarity, emotional safety, deeper intimacy.
This is not only poetic, it's also practical. Joining me is Lorian Krenn, who is an internationally recognized coach, author, and podcaster who supports people in relational dynamics, as well as intimacy, polarity, and really embodying your deepest truth in relationship.
It's a good one. I hope you enjoy.
So I'm really happy to have you here and I want to just dive right in. I think the first thing that I'm curious to talk about is that I know a lot of women, they want to be agreeable to keep the peace in a relationship.
I know some of your work, you talk about how men can get defensive or they feel like they don't like it when a woman challenges them. Talk to us about what's really happening in this dynamic.
It's an amazing question to start with. The reason why this is so challenging is because I like to describe it in the following way.
The desire or the fantasy of the little boy within us men, and I'm not saying this in a judgmental way, we all have a little boy or a little girl within us. And the desire of the little boy or the fantasy of little boy is a woman who is agreeable, a woman who is easy, a woman who wants to keep the peace.
Why? Because it's the perfect way to avoid. And this is not a conscious desire.
It's an unconscious desire. It's an optimal way to run away or not even to run away, but to continue living from a state of unconsciousness and limitation.
The feminine by nature, I like to call her the mirror or the divine feminine mirror or the oracle or the divine intuition, but it's not about the language we use. It's about the deeper embodiment behind it.
And the more awakened and conscious a woman is, the more she will expose our shadow in us men, our ego, our unconscious programming within us. And it's a little boy who desires unconsciously, okay, if I can just get to avoid all my pain, then that is the woman I desire, right? So what's really happening here is a disconnect from a man's true soul desire, we could say, because deep down, we men, we don't want to be able to avoid all our challenges.
We want to grow at the highest level. So really what's going on is this kind of paradox where women who are more conscious and awakened, somehow there is more challenge in relationship with men, just because there isn't a deeper understanding for many men, but many men are awakening, that actually what she's exposing and the intensity of that is actually serving him at the absolute highest level.
But this is not something conceptual. This is something deeper.
And when a man truly understands this, it doesn't mean he's no longer challenged by seeing himself in the feminine mirror, but it means that he's willing to choose this path fully. And that's when everything starts to change because he goes from resistance and fighting and constant defending and bracing and needing to be right and needing to prove to facing himself.
So now both start to evolve at a really high level in the relationship. Yeah.
It's like using the relationship as a mirror or a vehicle for awakening. So rather than what I'm hearing you say is avoidance, it's like, okay, what is this mirroring to me? How do I really rise to the occasion and grow together in each other's reflection? And I know a lot of people get into relationship with somebody's potential.
And I think people forget that you can totally accept somebody as they are while stealing hold for what it is that you see that they're capable of, what they can become. And so from your point of view, how do you see couples being able to grow together without going into control and blame.

Yeah. And this distinction is so important.
What I like to say to this is in the relationship with my wife, I feel so loved and accepted for who I am. There is no sense of that who I am today is not enough.
But at the same time, I cannot get away with my bullshit. I cannot get away with unconsciousness.
And I love that, but I didn't use to love that. I used to resist it.
I used to even unconsciously fight that through a deeper sense of defensiveness, which is really hard to work through because it means rewiring our nervous system as men. So it's this beautiful distinction, which you already hinted on.
It's that I love you for who you are, but also I'm not going to let you get away with playing small. I'm not going to let you get away with saying, well, that's just who I am, a man who isn't present, a man who isn't operating from a higher state of consciousness.
And it's that distinction. It's that embodiment.
And it's undeniable. And as a woman awakens, it can often veer towards either she's hoping for the man to change, hoping that one day his heart opens or he becomes more present or he truly starts to hear her.
Or the other way, as you mentioned, that there is an element of control or an element of nothing is ever good enough. A sense of no matter what he does, you're still not living up to that perfect ideal of the man who makes you feel safe in every single second.
So there's a trap there as well, because this can become an ideal. Yes, of course, the feminine needs to feel safe.
But of course, the feminine also needs to do that deeper work on feeling safe inside her own self and her own essence. So it's like when a woman does that, which most women will be doing who are listening to this podcast, and then she meets a man, that's a very conscious dynamic.
But it can also veer into the kind of looking for an ideal. And that's then ultimately not accepting that the other person is imperfect, just as we all are ultimately.
Yeah. It's almost, I'm hearing like a fierce love where it's a love that calls them forward, but they'll come from matters.
If it's coming from lack and not good enough, that's probably more of a filter of what she's experiencing versus I love you and I see you. And this is what, you know, I'm holding this vision for you to step into because that would serve your greatest expansion and potential.
And you said it there, it's coming from love and we can feel when something is coming from control, fear, or an unconscious dynamic, or when it comes from fierce love, as you just mentioned. Yeah.
And I bet you it comes from some of this control, trying to manage your partner so that we don't do our own work rather than us doing our own work so that we can come to a greater sense of wholeness and peace within us, and then also project that into relationship. Would you agree with that? Absolutely.
And here it's the opposite. Before I talked about us men avoiding in relationship.
And here is where the feminine women can actually also avoid. Because then the argument is always, well, you are not showing up enough.
It is meant to be an invitation. It is not meant to be something that we hold against the other.
If it's held against, you are still not safe enough. You are still not present enough.
There is a deeper form of blame there and also a lack of responsibility. It's meant to be an invitation because love invites, fear demands.
So good. So I know in relationship, men can seek for intimacy from a place of need.
And I'm curious how that affects not only the connection, but what they can do to shift that energy inside, because oftentimes that need is repelling. And so unpack this a little bit more for us.
There's a beautiful saying that goes, the masculine is most attractive when he doesn't need anything from the feminine. And by that, I'm not saying abandoning basic human needs.
We all have a deeper need to be seen, to be loved and to be accepted. But it exactly speaks to what you already spoke or hinted to in your question, which is this element of when a man needs intimacy to feel more secure in his manhood, women can feel that and they can feel it.
Every woman listening, you can feel it in your nervous system. You can feel it so in your whole body, in every set in your body.
It's like you want something from you. Why? Because there is that element of taking.
There is a taking energy rather than a giving and offering to love. One is devotion.
The other is taking. And when I say taking, I'm not necessarily talking about a malicious, exploitative taking from the feminine.
We have to distinguish between that. That exists as well, unfortunately.
But I'm speaking of something deeply unconscious, which is perhaps even the biggest wound for us men, which is that we need this deeper sense of validation from the feminine in order to feel like a strong and powerful man. Why? Because most of us were never seen by a strong masculine role model, by our father, by whoever was our caretaker.
who were never truly seen. And then we try to find ourselves in the feminine and the feminine can feel it.
And it's when we work through that, it's not that we become stoic or emotionally cold. There will be another extreme and will be another unconscious dynamic.
It's that we are able to express our needs without collapsing into an energy of, I need to take, I need this right now. But rather it becomes a devotion, an offering to love.
And that usually becomes the moment when there is never an intimacy issue again in a relationship.

Sometimes I say to men, if you don't need sex or intimacy in other shapes or form, if you don't need it desperately, it's going to happen more. Yeah.
Yeah. And can you talk to us a little bit more? I've not heard anybody say this,

and it makes perfect sense around looking for attention and approval essentially through the

feminine. Yeah.
And can you talk to us a little bit more? I've not heard anybody say this, and it makes perfect sense around looking for attention and approval, essentially, through the feminine because they didn't get it from their father, right? From a healthy masculine. Can you talk to us more about this? I'd love to hear your perspective.
The father is meant to teach us, everyone truly, but here in the context of men, how to feel safe and secure in our manhood.

But for most of us, the father struggles with generational trauma. And he is the continuum of generational trauma.
So we weren't seen, we weren't fully accepted, perhaps even shamed. He was emotionally distant.
And in the absence of that, we now look for that safety somewhere else. And usually that place or often that place becomes the feminine, specifically through intimacy.
And there is a deeper reason why as well. Because when a man is intimate with a woman, when he feels her sensual energy, then there's a deep sense of empowerment that happens in that moment.
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, enjoying that, celebrating that, and feeling that and being nourished by that. It's just when a man needs this in order to feel complete, in order to feel whole, in order to feel secure and safe, that's when it creates so many challenges.

I know one way to help shift that would be for the man to really reparent the little boy that

didn't get that, didn't get that validation or that witnessing from a healthy masculine.

What are other ways that you found helpful for men to do the work?

Number one is to understand that safety cannot be found in the feminine. That's the first step.
And then for a man, as you mentioned, to reparent himself, but to start looking, how exactly am I looking for this safety? To spot every little moment of that and to be so acutely aware of this, this energy of, I need something right now. And in these moments, as you mentioned, to sit with himself, to notice what arises.
And there's so many ways to work with this, whether it's breath work, whether it's healing the inner child, but it's really about sitting in the rawness of that and being so fully with that. It's almost like that kind of warrior energy that says, either I'm going to die right now, or I'm going to face this.
And when a man brings this level of energy, everything starts to change. But he has to do that consciously again and again.
Yeah. Beautiful.
Yeah. To really just sit in the fire of it.
I love that warrior archetype that's going to speak to so many men to just know that sensations, emotions only need 90 seconds to feel them and they move through the nervous system. It's not going to kill you.
It'll actually free you. So beautiful.
And I also know that your work speaks to women with a father wound and men with the unworthiness wound. So can you give us an example of how these dynamics show up in relationships and then some advice around how couples can shift out of it? This is actually one of the most common dynamics.
The woman, I called it the woman with the father wound and the man with the unworthiness wound. It's what I described before, but to give more context, a woman who struggled with an emotionally or physically absent father or any deeper emotional wounding of no safety, no masculine containment when she was growing up as a little girl.
And then there is a deeper sense of, there's a sense of projection onto us men and looking for that sense of safety that the father was never able to provide. So there's this unconscious contract almost, so to speak, where a woman enters in relationship and is looking for the safety that her father has never given her.
Which energetically often means that she will attract a man with a deep unworthiness wound. Because not always nothing is black and white in this universe, but she will often actually in that energy, if she's fully in that, she will repel a very conscious man.
Because a conscious man will not try to be the father she never had. He will be the man and the most powerful man that he could ever be.
But he knows he can't be more than that. He doesn't want to play the hero.
But men who struggle with a deep unworthiness wound, they want to be the knight in shining armor. They want to be the hero who finally saves her, the hero who finally makes her feel safe.
And she said it for years. I'm still not safe.
I'm still not safe. You're not showing up.
You're not showing up. And he's like, one day I'm going to be this hero who finally saves her from her pain.
And of course, he can only fail because it's an ideal that he can never reach. It's a dynamic that is not conscious.
He's trying to become something that is not even his true nature. And she will always see something lacking.
You're still not giving me that sense of safety that also partly is her responsibility through healing her own father wound. And it reinforces the cycle because it triggers each other's core wounds.
Each time she says, I still don't feel safe, he feels more unworthy. It's the self-fulfilling prophecy that I'm sure your listeners know about.
That sense of looking for a formation, the subconscious. Oh, here again, I'm not good enough.
And she goes, here again, he's not showing up. I can never attract a man who is strong.
Men are always feeling X, Y, Z, whatever the unconscious belief is. So it's a triggering of each other's core wounds.
And it's possible to shift that because you asked, how can you shift that? The way to shift that is both need to take responsibility, but not always. Sometimes if one party shifts their life so profoundly and really steps into their highest power and truth, something has to change because the other person either evolves with them or the relationship container falls apart.
So just to throw that in there for everyone listening, it's not always both see it, both understand it. That's ideal, but usually it's one.
And the one who sees is usually the one who is more conscious, meaning they're the ones who can embody a higher truth or their higher power, whatever we want to call it. And eventually there is no more, it's just not working.
We just fall into the same dynamic. There is either let's rise together or we can't and we accept that.
Yeah. It's like one person in the dance changes and the whole dance changes.
You don't need the other person to do it, but as you do it, you will either, what you're saying, call your partner forward or you will evolve beyond them. And that's, I know people get scared, like, oh, I'm going to do the work and I'm going to evolve beyond my partner, but you will not settle for anything less than you're offering yourself.
So as you do the work, there's no fear of not having it. You will be matched and mirrored in a way that you're meeting yourself or evolved.
So just to like settle some people's nervousness around it, because I can hear it. It's also just to speak to that.
I just wanted to add something here for everyone listening here, your truth decides for you. That's always what I say to my clients and in my groups, you don't have to make decisions.
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Some change needs to happen for the greater good of all. So truth always leads and illuminates the path.
If we're stuck between two, it means we're not fully in our truth yet. And life is that mirror.
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So we talked about the father wound with women. I'm also just curious about the men doing work with their mothers.
Is there anything to share, explore around that? Yeah, there is so much to share about this. But the mother wound, it all depends on what exactly happens.
But the mother breaking free from the mother is the first step in a man's initiation from boy to manhood. And for most men, it hasn't happened.
For most men, it just hasn't happened. There was never a breaking free from the mother, physically, perhaps, but energetically, hardly ever.
Maybe he moved out, has his own family now. He's married or he has a partner, children perhaps even.
He lives maybe across at the other end of the globe., but energetically there is still that unconscious loyalty. There is still that attachment that has never transitioned from boy to mother to a man who honors his mother, but doesn't feel an unconscious loyalty, doesn't feel responsible emotionally for her, which is what happens to so many men who then out of this trauma bond with the mother or out of the sense of, again, the hero, right? Specifically when the mother struggled, they want to save their mother.
And then there is the deeper form of unconscious loyalty, which is crazy for everyone listening, by the way. Energetically, for these men, the mother is next to them.
And energetically, in some traditions, it's supposed to be our partner next to us, not our mother. And for these men, it's the mother.
So just a deep pain here. And this initiation should be that the mother is behind, lets go, releases the son from the village.
He carves his own path. He honors her, but not from guilt, not from he has to, but because he just honors his biological mother, the soul who brought him into this life, who birthed him.

And most men have never gone through this.

There is so much energetic healing work there.

And if a man does that, it sounds intense, but that's actually only when he ever truly becomes a man.

Not in the sense of being validated by society, but feeling like a man.

Because most men, they won't say it.

Thank you. Not in the sense of being validated by society, but feeling like a man.
Because most men, they won't say it. But deep down, they feel like a boy in an adult body.
It's interesting. As you're talking, I actually have that wound with my mom.
And so I know it can be, it's not necessarily gender. You know, there's masculine and feminine universal energies in everybody.
So whoever's listening, you can really relate. Just follow what your truth is and listen deeply inside of yourself as we're having this conversation.
And some of the work that I've done to help shift that is to really see my mom in her strength, knowing that she has all her inner resources to handle her life and I didn't need to jump in to help her and to go back. But I just want to give some people some practical tools.
Do you have any specifically around that that can serve people? You just mentioned a really powerful one. And it's one that I would also add to here is cutting the energetic cords, cord cutting practices.
They come from ancient traditions. They are as old as time itself.
And the deeper part of our brain or the deeper part of our being, ancient traditions understood this, doesn't necessarily understand words or difficult concepts. Perhaps one single word that's clear.
But more importantly, images, rituals. So having a powerful ritual where you cut these cords, where you use breath, sound, visualization, that's what I guide always, everything included.
One of the ways that I did it with my mom is I saw a golden globe around her body and my body with a cord up into the heavens so that I felt and saw her connection, not just her personal self, but the truth of her being. And that I didn't need to do it for her.
And then started questioning the ideas that I needed to jump in and support her, or she wasn't strong, didn't have the power. So mentally questioning it, and like you're saying, visually seeing her in her sovereignty and her power question that she didn't have it at the time, be there for my little one.
Because in a way I was a parentified child. I abandoned my childhood experience to caretake when I didn't think my parents were okay.
And that was self-appointed, but then I got to reverse and do some of the healing around it. So I'm just sharing my own vulnerable journey in case this serves other people in their own exploration of cutting the cords and finding their own power and not being over-responsible because that can leak.
And I imagine that a partner is going to feel that, like you were saying, maybe it could be the wife that's like, oh no, it's me and you, not you and your mom and then me, you know, just in terms of it can, it can also be in a part of that lineup where then you put the father and then the child. And so I think over time we've learned it's not about having kids come first and then the relationship.
It's about, I think, truth, relationship with ourselves, our partner and our kids. Because if we're good, our kids are good and that family system is good.
So just sharing some more full picture ideas of how to do the work and the benefits of it. Completely agree with everything you've just shared.
And perhaps one other thing, practical tool here is sometimes when we approach this work, we only look at the bad things that happen. So what can really help in these practices is to also visualize perhaps golden lines or white lines of the deeper love that's naturally there.
And then to visualize the lines of pain and unconsciousness, because the truth is there's usually always both. There's a part that loves our parents deeply and there's a part that's deeply hurt.
And the work we're doing is not cutting the line of not loving them and saying, I don't love them. Because there is anger there.
There is self-protection there. Real healing is, as you mentioned, it's being aware of this and then focusing on those that come from trauma, that come from generational trauma, from unconscious guilt, loyalty, playing the hero, anything along those lines.
I love that. So important.
I think a lot of people can get stuck in just looking at what's not working. And then that can be a self-perpetuating cycle, feeling heavy and then parent bashing, which is never the point, really becoming aware and then doing the work to free ourselves and our lineage.
Beautiful. The other thing I know you talk about, which I want to have you speak to is polarity.
So can you talk to us? I think, I don't know if everybody knows what you mean by polarity. Can you share with us what you mean by polarity and how couples can use it and really apply that to their relationships to enhance them? It's a very loaded topic, of course, and it's very polarizing just as the word itself says.
But ultimately what it means is ancient teachings speak of something called the dance of intimacy, the dance between the masculine and feminine. And we have both energies within us.
And there is a dance that unfolds in any relationship. And when we say, well, I'm not participating in this dance, I'm not going to show, for instance, a man with a masculine core, I'm not going to be present.
I'm not going to work on holding space for her, right? Or as the feminine, I'm not going to create space for him to show up, for him to serve. because one of the deepest desires of the masculine is to be of service, to serve from a deeper level,

not from a place of being needed, but truly to serve. And when we say, well, this is not really important, it is important because these are energetic laws that play.
And in any relationship, in any context, in any dynamic, No one excluded from this dynamic. And when we honor this dance fully, then we simply experience not just the deepest intimacy, but the highest evolution.
So this sounds very abstract. To make this ultra practical for everyone here, what is this polarity? It's actually evolution within relationship.
People often mistake it that it's just about deeper intimacy and deeper connection. We all came here to evolve.
And one of the greatest vessels and vehicles to evolve is through relationship, is through union, because we have that crystal clear mirror that exposes every inch of unconsciousness within us.

So what it really is, is choosing this evolution fully.

And when we do that, when evolution unfolds, then intimacy follows.

Deeper connection, growth, trust naturally emerges.

And also polarity does not mean that women have to try to be more feminine and put themselves in a box, or men have to try to be more alpha or more masculine. It just means stepping into our truth.
Beautifully said. Yes, yes, yes.
And what do you see as the benefits? What do you see as the result in terms of relationship at its highest expression? The result is that we learn the lessons that we came here to learn as a soul.

We do the work that we came here to do.

And it's almost difficult to put words to it.

But I've done so much ref work, rituals, and all kinds of things in a crazy disciplined way, almost like a kind of self-torture, self-punishment way, before I met my wife. And the growth that unfolded when I met my wife was beyond any of the six hours of breathwork, wandering in nature.

And these things are really important.

And I had to do them. They've served a deep purpose.
But really, they prepared me for an even deeper purpose and for an even deeper expansion. And what do we gain from this? well, if we step into this level of evolution, if we make it our highest priority,

then ultimately relationship becomes our way or is the way home into our truth, into love, into our heart. Spirituality no longer becomes something we do in the morning and we forget about our meditation practice, it's become something

that is happening in every single moment because relationship forces us. It's almost like how can you devote yourself to evolving? Because then every moment becomes an offering.
Every moment you're at the altar and you can offer your ego and you can offer your shadows. And then really spirituality is not something we do and we think it's interesting.
And I do this spiritual workshop, but then for the other five days, I'm lost and disorientated. But it becomes the most important thing in our lives because it is the most important things in our lives.
And that's when everything starts to change. And the benefits of that are endless.
They're truly endless. Yeah.
I love hearing about your marriage. I just think relationships will reveal where we're hiding and not free.
And that's such a gift because when we are willing to be uncomfortable and to move in and lean in when we want to leave, it actually reveals greater levels of intimacy and awakening. And so thank you for your willingness to share a bit.
And also, I just appreciate that you're in a relationship speaking about relationships. I think there's a different level of integrity around that.
And I'm just curious also in your experience for people that say they want to really be with

somebody they want to love, but then their nervous system isn't available for it or not ready for it.

How do you navigate and coach people around that?

When someone says, I am ready for love at the deepest and highest level, when they,

when they kneel down almost like when life brings them to their knees and they say,

I devote myself to the highest love, whatever it takes, whatever it takes. Then somehow we find a way, whether it's through deep somatic healing, whether it's finding the right teacher, the right healing mythology.
Somehow we find a way because a way reveals itself. But when we say I'm so ready, but then we run.
And yes, of course, the argument is always there that it's not that black and white. For people who don't teach about the nervous system, it can almost sound shaming.
Look at you. You're still not evolved enough, but that person might have actually gone through abuse.
Their nervous system, it still has such a strong response. And they want to be conscious.
But in that moment, it hijacks them so powerfully, so intensely that survival and self-protection mechanism that once made so much sense. But to get to the highest love, we have to release it.
We have to rewire it, which is a really tough and intense journey. And I've got all the compassion in the world for that.
At the same time, I haven't met a single person who truly was brought to their knees by life and said, I devote myself to the highest love.

I will do whatever it takes to find a way to rewire myself.

Somehow you find a way.

So there is an invitation there to look deeper inside.

Are we truly prioritizing this at the highest level?

Are we saying we want something deeply, but then our actions are not completely in congruence with it? Not from a shaming place, radical self-honesty. Yeah, that's right.
And as we are honest with ourselves, we'll find that way, but also just going slow with ourselves. So we're not trying to push ourselves beyond our own evolution, really listening to our bodies.

And if we just stay consistent, those protection mechanisms, like you said, so compassionately were designed for a good reason.

They worked and we get to upgrade them, but there's no rush.

You know, love welcomes and meets all of it.

And so it says yes to the resistance.

It says yes to the defense.

It meets all of life exactly as it is.

In that softening,

in that meeting, it starts to just open in its own timing. And you speak so poetically, it's like I get lost in this trance of your poetry.
It's so beautiful when you're speaking. But I know that you talk about love is not always comfortable and it can be this initiation.
And so for people who, how do they discern in your opinion?

How do they discern in your opinion? How do they discern when this is a relationship that's really evolving them and they're growing or they're just looping in some survival patterns? No one, I believe, has to worry about right relationship and wrong timing. There is no sense of, oh, here is the perfect partner, but your nervous system is not ready.
You're still too unhealed and fucked up somehow

broken, which of course is not true. And so, well, it didn't happen.
So, well, that's the end.

That's not really how life works. That's the deeper fear that we might carry inside us.

But I haven't seen that unfold for people who are truly, genuinely and deeply devoted to this path. I generally believe it's always the right moment.
And if somehow it doesn't work, then there will be a deeper reason for it, unless we're totally detached and not doing the work. But people listening here will most likely not be doing that.
But you ask a really important question now to get really practically into that, which is around, am I evolving here or am I actually re-triggering all my old wounds and putting a label on it, twin flame, soul union, and romanticizing something that's actually not evolution, but actually going

around in the same circle and having the same pain again and again.

It's just one question or two questions to make it practical, not too poetic.

One question would be, what happens when you truly speak your truth from a deep place of groundedness or grounded in love?

What happens?

And we have to be mindful here.

Not when you speak your truth, shouting, screaming, getting angry, passive-aggressive.

That's not truth-telling.

That's projection in the name of truth.

But really from a grounded heart, really from love, what happens then? Now, listen, for everyone, nothing is perfect. Sometimes it might not be received immediately.
No relationship is perfect. So I don't want people to now start worrying if this is not immediately perfectly met.
But if you're truly in your heart and truly in your truth, and you get a response that's shaming, that's just putting you down and there's no space for that, and the other person needs to be right and needs you to completely agree with their view of things and you have to shrink and you have to play small and you have to 100% agree with them. Otherwise it's going to escalate into a bigger argument.
Then that's something to look at because that's not evolution. Because then if we can't embody and speak our truth, then by nature, we don't feel fully safe.
And here's the thing. Healing cannot happen if we don't feel safe.
I mean, let's talk about the nervous system. Healing happens when we're in a parasympathetic state.
Rest and digest. In that state, we heal.
But if we're constantly in freeze, fight, or flight, we don't heal. Now, this doesn't mean it's never happening, but it means there needs to be repair.
And that's the second element. How do we repair? And the word I even like more is, how do we reconnect? And how important is that? In a relationship where both are truly evolving, it's the most important thing.
There is no, let's not talk for seven days. Let's disconnect and just act like nothing happened and hate each other in these moments almost and project onto each other.

It doesn't exist.

There is a sense of this is the most important thing now because you and I are disconnected.

So we need to work through this, not from pressure,

but from this is the most important thing for us.

And when you have these two elements, when you can speak your truth

and you are received in that, and when there is true repair and the true priority in the sense of reconnection, then evolution will naturally unfold. And if that's not the case, then something needs to change.
Yeah. When I used to be a couples therapist, people would ask, should I stay or should I go? Which we can talk about in a moment, but also they would think that if I have an argument, that's bad.
And I would always say arguments are going to happen. There are good disagreements are going to happen.
That's fine. It's how you repair.
It's how do you grow closer together because of it? And I think as we do the work, we've got the tools to keep our heart open. And like you're saying, one of my practices right now is to speak my truth every day, but with an open heart.
And I'm finding that there are some times where I'm triggered, something happens at work, and I just need to come back into my heart and ground and breathe and then speak my truth. So it's not coming from trigger, it's coming from peace, but clarity.
And so we can do this and it's beautiful. We start doing it in our relationships, but we can also then expand it to every other relationship of our lives, our kids, team, family, whoever it may be.
And so if somebody is just the, should I say, or should I go? Because sometimes people are trying to figure that out and they haven't done the inner work to heal and they're trying to have a certainty in their mind. But I always recommend do the inner work to, like you're saying, speak your truth, work on what's coming up for you, take responsibility for your own experience.
And as you do that, the relationship will, again, either evolve or it will show you you've evolved beyond it. And so rather than trying to jump to that conclusion, really just doing your own work and the clarity will be obvious.
You don't need to try to jump to the conclusion of what the next most intelligent step is, because it'll be obvious. Anything you want to add to that? Because I know it's a very triggered or popular topic.
The only thing I would add to that is that in these moments, we're not looking for an answer that's perfect on paper. You won't find that answer by talking to all your friends, maybe to a highly trained or highly conscious person who's not immediately switching into trying to protect you, trying to tell you something nicely, when actually the other person might actually be avoiding responsibility or might be stuck in an unconscious dynamic, maybe with a highly conscious person, but not necessarily so many of those exist in this world who can hold this level of energy and frequency that you're not, because otherwise you get more confused because you get all these answers, you research all these things, but really the only place where you can find it and the only place we're not looking is, I don't want to say inside because that's so cliche, but the deeper embodied answer can only emerge from within.
And it's that clarity that you were just talking about. It's this clarity that comes and it's just inevitable.
There is no sense of, is this the right choice or isn't it the right choice? When you're so grounded in your heart and you come from this place and you're being shamed and you feel so much hurt in that moment, there comes a moment where you just go, no more. And that no more is not an aggressive, ah, and I need to throw now to the other person how much they hurt me.
It's just a very clear no. That's right.
Yeah. And then we know.
Yeah. And then we know.
And then we have to honor what we know. Or we get repeated lessons until we do.
And for those who are like, this is a healthy relationship, or I'm wanting to stay because it feels like a yes for me, but their triggers come up and they're wanting to close. What have you found helpful for people in those moments to stay open? One of the most powerful ways is to, in these moments, the thing is, in hindsight, there's a saying that says, in hindsight, we're all clever.

In hindsight, we all know we should have acted differently. But it's not necessarily true awareness if we only realize it later on.
It's better than not realizing it at all. But the true power lies in seeing it in the moment and then being able to drop it and release it before it creates further pain.
Days of disconnect, shutting down, pushing the other person away. So it really becomes about rewiring our nervous system ultimately to slowly, step by step, take the charge out of the intense hijack we experience and also be able to still be able to slightly, even ever so slightly, stay conscious of what is going on.
And that small awareness that at the beginning is small and turns eventually from a handle into a wildfire, that awareness is truly our savior at the end of the day. Because you can feel so much overwhelmed.
You can be like, I'm going to shut up. This is not right.
This is not right. You want to escape.
But if there is this tiny bit of awareness that says, this is going to cause so much pain. And you just hold on to that, that little bit of awareness.
And something changes when you do that. I don't know what it is.
You still experience maybe being hijacked even in that moment. You experience all these emotions that are so challenging, but somehow you're able to squeeze a phrase out such as, my buddy wants to run away and shut down, but I love you.
And you start crying suddenly. And suddenly this protective mechanism melts a little bit.
And the other person goes, whoa, baby, I'm going to hold you right now and there's a wild mix of emotions and it's imperfect and you're still hijacked by it but you're still staying somehow you haven't completely run and and been so identified with this self-sabotage and self-protection that it came at the expense of disconnect. But, and then in this moment, something changes.
And now when you, you cry and you release and the other person holds you in that and says, I'm here and, and I love you still. Then you start to experience being loved when you feel broken.
And maybe one of the most beautiful experiences for rewiring our nervous system is when everything inside us tells us you're bad, you are damaged, you're a piece of shit, excuse my language, you're worth nothing. And the other person breathes love into your wounds.
Yeah. I mean, that is powerful.
Yeah. Powerful.
And what an opportunity to really let that in. And if you can't just be compassionate with yourself and breathe through that, but I loved what you said, those microscopic shares of like, I want, I'm scared and I want to run away, but I'm staying.
And if for some reason you're so triggered and you know, it's better to move away. It's okay to move away and just say when you're going to come back so that you don't be creating that trauma bond of just escalating.
And then people always say like, don't go to bed with an argument. I'm like, no, definitely go to bed.
If you're not resourced, you don't have what you're saying, that higher level of awareness, more time is going to create more trauma and more hurt. And so unless one of you has that higher level awareness, you know, just take a pause, regulate yourself and come back.
But even better, if you can do what you're saying is in that moment, speak that more microscopic truth, like I'm scared and I want to leave, but I'm going to stay and see what happens. I mean, what a gift offers somebody.
And at the bare minimum, it has to be just what you mentioned. If it's a running away and saying, I'm out, I'm going to leave you now.
Abandonment is too strong. It's too unsafe for the other person to just accept it.
If they would accept this again and again, it would mean that they're abandoning themselves. So they are being thrown into a lose-lose situation or lose-lose.
Yeah. Well, lose-lose to a degree.
And it's just what you said. That's the bare minimum.
I can't connect right now, but I'm not leaving. I just need a moment.
I just need some time for myself, but I'm not leaving. I still love you.
Yeah. Beautiful.
I mean, that's evolved, especially in those moments where we want to defend or run, like really that's, and then it weakens the pattern and it starts reprogramming. Like you're speaking of, this is a little bit stereotypical, but I want to talk about like, what have you found really helpful that allow most women to open and feel safe in a relationship as well as men? I'd like to hear what you have found in some of the practical.
One of the most powerful things or gifts that the feminine can give the masculine is to give him space to show up because we men desire so much to be of service. And when a man who is in that energy of service and there is space for him to show up.
It's very small things, right? It might sound not as a little, not as a huge thing, but, you know, allowing him to hold a chair, open the door, little gestures, right? Or even moments. Yeah, maybe you could do it on your own, but you're asking him from a place of love, right? Not as a game or something unconscious.
Or demand, because I can also hear that too. Yeah, exactly.
But a sense of, not a sense of I need you to survive, but a sense of I could do all of this on my own, but I actually prefer making space for you to show up, right? And that is one of the greatest gifts because men who want to be of service, our heart feels so nourished by that. We feel so seen in that because we feel that our masculine qualities and gifts are being fully received.
And whenever there is this element of, well, no, I can do it by myself. I can do everything by myself.
I can do it on my own. It feels like there is no space for us to be of service.
And that causes a lot of disconnect and causes us men to feel unseen. So I would say that is actually perhaps even the biggest one.
I just love that. I mean, I just got teary and moved because I think I've got, I definitely was raised with some of the generation of women can do what men can do, I have two older brothers.
And my husband is so chivalrous and there and of service. And I have like, I can do it on my own energy.
And there's something in me that softens. And last night he was like, I want you to soften in your femininity by me being there.
So I'm going to give this talk, a keynote at Mindvalley coming up. And he's like, I want to be there.
I want to, I want you to feel like you can surrender in your femininity and not hold. And it's like, I can do it on my own.
And anyway, it was just, um, what you're sharing is so beautiful. Yeah.
Your husband sounds like a very powerful and embodied man. Yes.
He's a beautiful man. Yeah.
Amazing. So that's for, that was for women.
What, what can support women in softening and I guess men too. And part of what I was hearing and what you were saying is also as I receive and yeah, as I receive his support, that'll probably fill him in a way that it's like the giving is the receiving is what I'm trying to say.
It's both. As I receive that, it probably gives back to him.
We men, when we are received in that, we want to show up even more. And another thing to say perhaps here is when you let us in, when every woman listening, when you let us in in those moments where it might feel easier to self-protect, shut down, and you can do it all on your own, and you're just going to go and regulate, which is fine if that's really needs, if that needs to happen in that moment, no shame whatsoever.
But to let us in in these moments and to hold you, just as you mentioned what your husband did yesterday and is doing in general consistently, that is like balm to our soul, really. That's so beautiful.
That's so beautiful. I'm hearing some women be like, I don't have men like that in my life.
What would you say in response to that? Yeah. What I would say to that in response is when we operate from a place of, well, in my country, there are no conscious men.
I've heard so many women say this. I know.
I'm like, I see a lot of conscious men. I have coached a man in your country.
I know that. And literally I've said this before and it's true.
I've coached so many men from so many different parts of this world. And I'm like, no, I, well, I hear you.
I hear you. Number one.
And yes, not every man will have that level of consciousness, but here's maybe a more difficult and nuanced truth for everyone listening. It's not that there aren't a lot of conscious men.
It's that some of the really good men out there might not just be yet available in that moment because they are still working for their unworthiness and are with a woman who's mirroring them their unworthiness. I've worked with such men, men who relate to intimacy as sacred, men who speak the language of all the women who tell me or who tell you, where are the conscious men? These will be the perfect men, but they are still going for their journey of evolution.
So I just want every woman to feel into this for a moment. Number one, there are more and more conscious men who are available and doing this work.
And there are so many other men who are still in their journey of evolution and will soon become fully ready for this. So beautiful.
I'm here to support a world of conscious relationships. Thank you for your poetry, for the practical tips.
I just, I just dropped in and so much love and gratitude for you and the work that you're doing in the world. And I know my audience is going to want to stay connected.
Talk to us about what you're up to and how they stay connected. Oh, thank you.
That was a very powerful conversation and I believe it will serve many listening to this. Yeah.
The easiest way to find me is Lorine Kren everywhere, which is L-O-R-I-N-K-R-E-N-N. And I've got an Instagram account.
I've got a podcast called Masquerade and Feminine Dynamics, where I go deep into all of these things that I've mentioned and talked about and much more. And my website, LorineKren.com.
I've got upcoming trainings. I don't know when this episode is going to be launched, but I always have upcoming trainings for men, for women, for couples.
And there's always a lot happening to go deeper into this work and really shift it at a root level. Beautiful.
And we'll put all the links here in the show notes. Thank you for your time.
Thank you for what you're doing in the world. What a gift.
It's been an honor. Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world starting with yourself.
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But for now, I just want to say thank you so much for being an example of what it's like to live with an open heart and mind in

the world