How to Tap into Your Intuition + Hear Divine Guidance | Caroline Myss | EP 108

Nine out of ten times, the most frightening path is the one you should take.

How often in your life have the best things happened when you didn't expect them?

It's organic spiritual breadcrumbs.

The purpose of life is to make the journey from our love of power to the power of love.

It's going to look different for each one of us.

Part of that learning involves realizing if you're fear-driven or driven by goals that cause you to lose your soul.

If you break your word to yourself, you will never trust your intuition, which is how guidance comes in.

So start out by just listening to what your body is telling you.

This is the God in your blood and bones.

If you really understood that is your greatest power, when you die, you're going to be asked one question.

What did you do with the life you were given?

Welcome back to the Healing and Human Potential podcast.

Today we're going to talk about how do you know if you're chasing a dream that belongs to you or if you're actually on the right path.

We'll talk about why people resist the healing they say they want, how the chakras actually connect with illness, and how to transform some of the hardest moments in your life to discover greater wisdom.

Joining us is Carolyn Mace, five-time New York Times best-selling author and renowned medical intuitive.

And her work really bridges not only consciousness, spirituality, energy healing, but here today she's going to be talking with us about how to have more clarity, purpose, and grace in our lives.

I know a lot of people are are interested in living their purpose, and you say that we suffer when we try to pursue a dream that doesn't belong to us.

Can you talk to us about this and how that might connect to sacred contracts?

The first level of purpose, someone wants it physical so that they can identify and hold it and see if it reaps any benefits because we are a profit-driven species.

But honestly,

people have to let go of that that and realize that when that the purpose of a life is multifaceted

and it includes what you're meant to learn in your lifetime, what you're meant to learn.

And

part of that learning involves realizing if you're fear-driven.

or realizing if you are driven by goals that cause you to lose your soul.

And believe it or not, I mean,

heaven will angle your life so that your purpose is to get over something, is to move on.

So

I know that in my years and years of teaching sacred contracts, everybody wanted their contract to be something like a marriage thing or an occupation in which they only worked a couple of days a week so that they could lollygag and enjoy.

I mean, it was a, it was fan, it's spiritual fantasy, it really is spiritual fantasy.

That is not the way heaven sets up a life.

Heaven really sets it up to see who will you take care of, who will we serve, how will we help life be better than when we arrived.

And if and if someone could say to reduce that idea of purpose to what's the purpose of my being in this interview with you right now, what is the purpose of this conversation?

What is the purpose of waiting in line?

In each case, I know it sounds small, but it's not.

In each case, it's an opportunity to either transmit grace or withhold it.

And I think in general, the purpose of life for all of us is to make the journey from our love of power to the power of love.

That's the journey.

Now, it's going to look different for each one of us.

But in general, that's the only thing we're doing here.

Discovering how if I use love, it's going to go a lot better.

If I use hate,

I get smacked in the face.

When will we ever get that?

When will we ever learn?

Yeah, I really hear that it's not always the what, it's the how, and what's the deeper lesson that your life is designed to help you learn and to embody.

But it's also

everything outside of you is hollow.

It's what Buddha would call an illusion.

We bring purpose.

It isn't delivered to us.

We bring it.

We bring purpose into everything we do.

If we say to ourselves, this is useless because I'm not making any money.

This is boring.

This is that, then we diminish.

And then it's like telling God, you screwed up.

Look where I am today.

I'm bored.

I'm not amused.

You're not delivering any interesting people to me or anything.

It's really like criticizing the organization heaven has for your life.

Instead of saying, All right, what am I going to do with this day?

What do you want me to do today?

And assuming that everything you do, if you do it with this idea that heaven doesn't make mistakes, heaven doesn't screw things up.

Sometimes people get resting periods so that they can empty out.

Sometimes

heaven delivers us into fields of conflict so that we can

find resolution in what it is we believe.

I'm absolutely enchanted with how heaven works.

I'm not kidding you.

I'm enchanted.

I am.

I am enchanted.

I have to own it.

I am.

I'm blown away.

That's beautiful.

If somebody is trying to figure out, like, how do I know if the choices that I'm making are in alignment with my true path?

What are some of the signs or how might they feel to give them them guidance i oftentimes hear people say and i have through my years as a teacher um and then i did this and everything just fell into place so they use this model that if things that things have to fall into place

in order for

proof that they're on the right path

But that's very naive.

That's like a child and a parent.

Am I doing good?

Oftentimes, you're on the right path and you go headstrong into conflict because you're meant to be a resolution factor in that conflict.

I think of the life of John of the Cross and he was with Teresa Vavila.

And maybe a lot of people are familiar with John, but they are familiar with this, the Dark Knight of the Soul.

And that came from him.

In following his guidance to help reform the Carmelite.

priests and nuns that

Teresa was part of.

His Carmelite brothers didn't want any reform.

So they kidnapped him and put him in a former latrine and they beat him up every single day.

And through this, it would be easy for someone to say,

but I was following your guidance.

I was doing exactly because we are programmed to look for rewards and we're programmed to measure if if it's the right thing, then things should go easy.

But that's the child in us, honestly.

That's the child.

No, I love the guidance from St.

Benedict, and I teach this like I will tomorrow in my workshop.

And that's that Benedict said, when it's time for you to make a decision, there's three things you should do.

One, seek out counsel with someone whose counsel you truly respect.

Meaning, there's a difference between advice and counsel.

Here's advice.

That's a great color for you.

Make sure everything in your wardrobe is that color.

That's advice.

Counsel is a grace.

And if you came to me and said, I'm in anguish in my life because of the first thing I would do honestly is that I pray for the grace of counsel because I'm about to impact you in a way that will

never leave you.

Because once you absorb someone's words,

they don't go away.

So you want those words to be grace filled.

You want to be able to say, help me give this the counsel they can't hear themselves.

The second thing is that you do all your research on whatever it is you're anguishing about.

And you pay attention.

Anguish means something's got to change.

That's guidance.

The third is that you pray.

You say, help me out here.

And oftentimes, if you want guidance, you just say, make me feel even worse.

No, no, I'm serious.

Totally serious as a way of saying, if this is what you want me to do,

I don't want to miss it.

So put a knot in my stomach, drive me crazy with a headache, and I'll get the message.

And then Benedict said, when you finally make the decision, having gone through this rigor, rigorous preparation, it's like crossing a bridge into the next stage of your life that's been constructed around that decision.

And the world from which the decision came is no more.

So you don't look back.

You do not look back.

You're like Lot's wife.

You don't look back.

You'll turn into a pillar of salt.

You will find yourself moving back to that bridge thinking, well, should I go left?

Or should I know?

You make that decision and you say, okay, I've done this.

Now help me through this.

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There's a deeper trust in life that whatever is unfolding, that there's a gem in it or there's a gift in it for you to really receive.

How would you support somebody who doesn't trust life?

And I'm wondering if there's any wisdom or guidance you can.

You know, the truth is, I have found

that people in general are living in a faith crisis.

They're in a constant crisis of faith, that somehow the mechanism

that allows us to believe is rusty.

or it hasn't been refined.

And so what I tell people is there's nothing i can tell you at all that will ever help you trust you have to earn that and i'll tell you how you can do that and the first place you you start is is with faith in yourself

and that sounds like a small thing but it's not it's everything if you break your word to yourself you'll break your word to everybody If you break your word to yourself, you will never ever trust your intuition, which is how guidance comes in.

So you start out by just just listening to what your body is telling you.

And maybe your body's telling you, don't eat so much sugar or walk.

Start there.

I'm not kidding you.

You tell yourself, okay, I got the message.

Okay, because this is organic divinity.

This is the God in your blood and bones.

This is...

Heaven's not going to show up and say, all right, honey, what's wrong?

It's

that way.

It's organic.

It's in our tissue.

This is the God in everything and everything.

And you decide, okay, I got it.

I have to walk.

Don't expect rewards.

Just push yourself.

And you're going to go through this abattoir.

You're going to say, I don't want to walk.

No, if you gave your word to yourself that you're going to do this every day, then by God, rain,

sleet, snow, whatever, you get out there and you do your 20-minute walk.

And what you are actually doing is you're laying the groundwork for what it means to truly have reverence for yourself, to actually respect your own word, to actually respect your own guidance.

And as the weeks roll by, you're going to sense another message that might say something like, and by the way, now that I have you on the intuition phone,

ease up on the sugar.

Now it won't occur to you, oh my god, maybe I'm getting guidance, but you are because it comes in organically.

And then you start following this,

these are spiritual breadcrumbs, these little spiritual breadcrumbs.

And one day you realize that you have a sense of regard for what's coming from you instead of to you.

That's powerful.

Is that what you mean when you say meet our intuition halfway or more?

Or what do you mean by that?

Yeah, I mean, you really have to develop a rapport with your voice and where you yourself jam your own circuits.

I'm writing a book right now, and this will be in my book, but part of what I tell people these days are the causes for stress and illness that I never listed before because I didn't really realize or appreciate.

But our wounds are now at the soul level, all right?

And we have to include the soul level of wounds

in our

understanding of what generates our health.

So, for example, I've never had anyone in all my workshops, and I've done how many,

I have no idea.

I have no idea.

Honestly, I have no idea.

No one's ever come up to me and said, I struggle with anxiety because I'm a compulsive liar.

Never had that.

I've never had anyone say, I'm in a chronic depression because I can't seem to protect myself from lies or from telling them.

So I betray myself constantly.

I agree with things I don't mean.

I say things I don't mean.

Now,

in these last decades, we've really opened up access to our inner world in a way that's never been before.

My parents wouldn't have known.

Not in a million years would my father, a World War II Marine, say, you know, my inner child.

Yeah, I mean, we, we have

accessed our interior.

which means we are, our wounds are more complicated.

They're more involved in kairos instead of kronos time they're more timeless they're more porous so what we're discovering is how

not being told the truth is a very wounding thing and my frustration when i hear someone say i'm trying to forget what's the problem well i'm trying i'm working on it instead of owning actually i'm very vengeful

And I want that person to pay for the suffering that's happened in my life.

And I am going to absolutely make them see how much suffering they caused me.

And then I wanna, you know, chop their heads off.

And I, you know, it's this kind of thing.

And I thought to myself, where is that rage and vengeance coming from?

Then I realize

that

when someone says, I'm really sorry,

I didn't mean to.

There it is, that phrase right there.

Because we are intuitively alive now.

and we really do sense and know just like you know when you say to someone I really didn't mean you are lying because what you're leaving out is actually I got an intuitive hit before I did this not to do it and I thought about you and I thought oh the hell with it I really want to do this that's the part people can't forgive they need that depth of honesty that says my I did intuitively get a hit not to hurt you but I chose of my own power to go ahead with that anyway and so I have to change my language because apologizing to you doesn't go into the soul I have to actually say I have sinned I've sinned I've used the power of my life to hurt the power of your life and it was a conscious choice and it's not a boo-boo it's not a bummer it's a sin yeah i think the role of honesty plays a huge part in forgiveness and without it we can't move forward

It has to be soul honesty.

Soul honesty.

Yeah.

Like really

raw and honest within themselves.

Absolutely.

And then I think forgiveness is more accessible.

And I know you say that people will resist the very healing that they're saying that they want.

Can you talk to us about this?

Oh my God.

This is what I'm writing about in this chapter seven.

It took me years to really get how much courage it takes to heal.

You wouldn't think so.

But we have

some primitive beliefs.

We're owed something.

What are we owed?

So this goes back to an absolute miscalculation about what life is all about on this planet.

It is not the journey into fairness for you.

It's not the journey into justice for you or righteousness.

Not at all.

You cannot believe that there are multiple lifetimes and then take events that happen in this lifetime and treat them as though that's a one and done.

You can't do that.

You can't assume that you're the center of the universe and therefore everything that happens has to work out for you.

Sometimes to the exclusion of other people, sometimes harms other people, but that's okay because your focus is all about me, all about justice.

That's why all the messages in the scripture from Buddha to Jesus are like, knock it off.

You have no idea what's really unfolding.

You know, when I was an active medical intuitive, and I stopped doing my readings because the readings became so incredibly incredible that I couldn't communicate them.

And

four times, and it doesn't sound like much, but for me, that was four times.

I got the impression that the struggle a person was going through was actually

being energetically orchestrated by a life yet to be lived.

I could go into a past life, but now I saw a life yet to be lived because in that world there is no time.

So the decisions and the choices and who we become affect the consciousness of the whole of ourselves, which we couldn't possibly comprehend.

Now in seeing this, I realized, well, now this person has a choice.

They could either continue blaming the person they see across from them because it's so convenient, or they could stretch their spiritual imagination to a height so high that they begin to engage in everything in life as being perfectly set up for some reasons beyond our comprehension.

Most people won't go there because they want immediate gratification and the ego is so strong.

But when I began to understand the larger scope of life,

I thought, I can't do readings anymore.

I am not going to engage with people and support the view that the reason something's not working for them is because of that one person, because there's no truth in it.

Yeah, I think a lot of people can get stuck in why is this happening or why is this happening to me?

And so, I, but I also think hearing perspectives like this may open, some people may be open enough to say, maybe there is a gift in whatever I'm going through.

Maybe I could use this for my growth, my healing, my evolution.

And so for people that get stuck in more of that victim, suffering mindset of why is this happening, what do you think would help them shift that?

Like, can you share more about this?

You know, at the end of the day, honestly, it's a person's choice to finally put a bit in their own mouth about the way they talk to themselves, about the narrative.

And I'll say to people, you know, there comes a point where you have to stop asking, what is the purpose of my life?

and just say, what's the purpose of life?

Change the questions you pray about and reflect on.

And as I understand more about the purpose of life, how do I serve that instead of expecting life to serve you?

What can I get versus what can I give?

Precisely.

Change your prayers.

Change your questions.

This is so empowering.

And I keep coming back to sacred contracts.

For those that don't know about them, can you share more of that perspective?

Just so that in some ways, when I started studying this and some of your work, it started opening my mind because what's true for me is I actually don't know and I like living in the unknown.

And

I started to question what I was conditioned with that opened to more possibility and unknown, which felt really freeing.

And so I want to give people some of that experience.

If you could help.

When I was doing readings, which was over the span of three decades with my beloved, beloved, forever friend, Lu Sheili, who passed away last year.

But through those readings, they started out with me just identifying an illness in someone,

which is pretty impressive in those early days.

But what happened with me is that it started to open up, like, what's going on here?

What's going on?

As if I'd fallen down some kind of sacred rabbit hole.

Like, what, you know, and considering that I did my graduate work in mystical theology, I never heard of chakras.

So, you know, looking at the human energy system and all of this.

Anyway, one thing led to another.

And through the journey of my work, I eventually said, well, there's got to be more than chakras.

There's got to be more than this.

There's got to be more than that.

And

where does choice?

And eventually what happened was I began to realize that choice was the major lever of the human being.

That everything was about choice.

Everything.

Angels stand back.

They can influence us, but they can't control anything.

They can guide, but not influence.

Let me say it that way.

Nothing can tamper with our power of choice.

So I thought, no, but what is choice?

Why is it so important to be born at exactly a certain time in a certain place?

And I had

never heard of archetypes until...

Well, I did.

That's not true.

I mean, I read Plato and Plato spoke about it, but not in the way Jung and then one day I'm doing a reading for Norm Norm's got his patient in his office

and Norm was a brain surgeon who then specialized in pain management and he only dealt with adults he would never treat children so I'm doing this reading and I get impressions what's that like if I said to you right now I want you to think of your living room you actually don't see it you actually don't you think it's like pixels it's like right and you could describe but you actually don't see anything you're not having a vision now there is an internet that's operating between us that operates just like the internet exactly like it i'm sure that that's what inspired it is our internet and

when i did a reading it's like on the internet the pixels

that you released just

in the blink of an eye into my internet.

And I was born graced with a very impersonal nature very impersonal there's not a romantic bone in my body i'm not sentimental i'm just deeply compassionate but not personally i don't know how to explain myself to myself but that's how i am i get it but it's that impersonal detachment i was born detached so when i when i would get information a psychic transmission it was very easy for me to recognize it because i had no attachment to my own.

I could sense it.

So here I'm doing this reading and I'm getting this impression that Norm's dealing with this baby in his office.

That's all I could.

And I, so I said to Norm, since when do you see children?

And the patient's right there, right?

And he's talking to me on the phone.

He says, uh-uh.

And I said, no.

I said, well, what I got here is this big wounded child.

And out of my mouth came the archetype.

And Norm said, ah, bingo.

but after that i thought what the heck was that

now that opened me to wondering about archetypes and when i started to look at archetypal patterns what that's like it's it's going like if you and i were in a building and i said this building's your life

from the moment you're born you can't leave the building you can only

elevate what floor you want to see the rest of your life on.

Every time you go up a floor, you start including more and more things, more and more vision, more and more understanding of how extraordinary this universe is.

So, for me, it was like going up to the next floor, which was holy mo,

archetypal patterns.

Where do they come?

And then, the moment I opened that door, I started to see the patterns governing people.

They didn't even know, they didn't even realize they had the patterns of the warrior, the rebel, the judge, the this, the kleptomaniac, you know, the patterns.

Just

where in the world be totally impersonal, it's like the the eighth chakra, ninth.

These are impersonal that are assigned to us before we incarnate that help govern,

because we couldn't possibly absorb all the myths of the universe, all everything out there.

It's so specifically structured, so governed.

So before we're born,

we're assigned archetypal patterns in which we will

and operate the laws of the mystical laws, magnetic attraction, cause and effect.

How many times I've done a reading and people have always wanted to be, you know, they have fantasies, they want to be actors, they want to be this or that, but they don't have the archetype.

Okay, so what's a pair?

What is a contract?

A contract's an archetypal agreement.

And

that archetype is going to play out in you.

And there's nothing you can do to stop that.

and there's nothing you can do to grab onto another archetype that you might go window shopping for like wow i would love to be an actress but you don't have it so you you could nothing stops you from going into drama school trying out but none of the laws are going to cooperate with that decision so you can use your own force but you don't have a contract with that.

Does that help you?

Yeah.

And I also heard you say something about self-betrayal in connection with the contracts.

Can you speak to that?

Self-betrayal is not a part of any contract.

It's a choice that we make

to diminish truth, the guidance that we hear, what we know.

When we betray truth, and I cannot tell you how

toxic that is.

It is a poison when you do that because our being, our design, our holy design is designed to we're like truth-seeking missiles

the relationships you like the most the ones you cherish the most are the ones in which you feel like i i can be truthful with this person because truth is like spiritual balm yeah and if you can't be truthful and find you have to distort yourself

you begin a genuine journey of suffering a genuine and in order to live with yourself you have to find people or events to blame for why you are no longer a truth vessel that truth is a is a tuning fork

to follow what's alive and true for us that's a signal that we're on the right path we're making choices that are in alignment and we won't be supported in abandoning ourselves.

Is that what you're saying?

Yes, the truth, truth is the language of God.

Okay, truth is God language.

Truth is what's really going on here.

Because if you don't seek the truth, you will fall for an illusion and people will suffer.

And we're not meant to suffer, but we will,

you know, all right, so let's go back to a contract.

Let's say someone has a contract with the addict archetype,

which is very common, which means...

they will struggle with an addiction in some form.

It could be addiction to power, money, prestige, stuff, substance, food, whatever.

But the whole point of the addiction, of an addiction,

is, again, it goes to choice.

It goes to my power.

One of the great teachings in the scripture is be in the world, but not of the world.

Don't give your soul to the world.

Don't do it.

Don't let it, and they say, as they say in Taoism, get caught in a spectacle.

Get caught in a spectacle.

Like, tell yourself, I must have this, or I'll just die.

Or believing one person

ever giving one person authority over you

or one job or any of it.

It's all theater.

And that's where you finally think that's the truth.

The higher truth is this is all a setup.

And every single thing is, will I hold my spirit or will I release it because I'm frightened?

because I think that person has more authority than me.

Will I turn to prayer and say, I need some badass grace right now because i'm really confused and i don't want to make a stupid choice so download fast

i love it i love it

i have also heard this story that when you were younger that spirits came to you and asked you to make a choice and i loved this story if you're open to sharing as a child This angel was very close to me.

And my

encounter with him began when I was i was always trying to figure out why people do what they do and why they were unhappy or this i was just one of those kids and i would go into my bedroom you know and i'm so grateful that i was born catholic because i grew up in a catholic household where saints and angels and all this it was so normal all right thank god i had parents like that so i went into my bedroom and i would sit down and sit on this pillow i'd close my eyes and i'm seven six seven eight years old and all of a sudden i would and i'm sure it was an inner journey.

I didn't go anywhere, but my interior would light up like a theater.

And I would be sitting in a chair and on the stage would walk the same guy in all these years.

I've never seen his face.

Would walk this same guy.

And do you remember what a cut out paper doll is?

Yeah.

Okay.

So on the stage would be cut out paper dolls of the people that I was curious about.

And I'd think, what's why are they so unhappy?

Why is this?

And he would say, okay, now pay attention to me.

This is what's going on in this person's life.

This is what's going on.

And I would, and honest to God, I thought I was being told that I would be a writer with all these secrets, that I would write, you know, for, this is how my head worked.

Then when I was around nine, eight or nine, probably eight, I had a light that looked like one of those lights from the 1800s, those kind of.

double lights like this and the bottom was a night light and the top was a regular light bulb i went to turn it off and the night light came on and I looked and he was sitting on my bed.

He was sitting on my bed.

The only time I ever saw anything.

Yeah.

And he said, okay, I've got to ask you something.

It's time for you to make a choice.

And he put all these gifts, sparkling, beautiful gifts, boxes.

And one was beauty, one was fame, one was wealth, one was power.

He says, you get one.

I said, one.

And then I thought to myself, well, if I take power, you can make me powerless.

And if I take beauty, you can make me ugly.

If I take rich, you can make me poor.

And that's how I was thinking.

Very selfish.

Very smart.

Well, and then

I said, this is the one I want, this one.

And he says, why do you want that one?

I said, because I can swallow it and you can't get it.

And it was wisdom.

And he laughed and said, well done.

And said, you're not going to see me like this, but I'll always be here.

And so, I mean, when I was in college, I was working my way through college by working at a candy factory.

So I'm driving home after midnight, and I'm driving down Oak Park Avenue, and there's side streets coming in.

And I hear in my left ear, slow down, a red truck's going to run the stopson.

So I slowed down, and this red truck goes,

which would have smashed, I would have died.

Wow.

And I went back and I thought, oh, there you are.

And all the way home, I was higher than a kite.

I said, there you are, there you are.

I met.

I just,

I cannot tell you how

it clicked.

I mean, I can't tell you, there you are, I knew it.

And I'm writing about this right now in my book,

that my experiences of audio guidance were actually very rare,

very rare.

I mean, I had a grandma seizure in my office when I was in New Hampshire.

I woke up on the floor of my office at 20 after midnight and I had no idea what happened to me.

And I heard my angel say, you've had a grandma seizure, call normal.

Now in each of the instances,

and one time I was house sitting

when I was in graduate school, I sometimes would house sit for people.

And this was a couple I didn't know.

And they had this brownstone.

And it was just the way, it was just graded, just the way I like it.

It was very bookish and and red walls and cozy furniture and that kind of thing.

And

my first night in there, I started to get sick, big sick, not little sick, big sick.

So I couldn't go to work anymore.

And I called up and I said, I can't come in.

I was working at a hospital at the time.

And by the third day, the woman I was working with said, you got to get in here.

What's going on?

And I just dragged myself.

But what happened was

I was about probably four miles from the hospital.

Halfway there, I thought I was totally fine.

I was perfect.

So I thought, wow.

And I was just vibrant again and bullion.

I go home, I walk in, and boom, I was instantly sick.

Instantly feverish, clammy.

That night I'm in bed and I'm thinking, oh my, and I hear my guy, get out now.

And I shot up.

pulled my clothes together, ran down the stairs.

And then I turn around.

You know how Victorians are.

They have the stairs, you know, you can't stair and the stairs going up.

I turn around and I look up to the top of the stairs because I left something in the bedroom.

I knew that if I went up there, I'd be pushed down the stairs.

I knew it.

It was like I was frozen for a moment, and I felt my guy grab the back of my shirt and yank me out of the house.

So I drove home to my parents.

in the middle of the night.

By the time I got there, I was fine.

As I say, as a matter of fact, here's my Bible, right?

It's a matter of fact, what I've been working on is this section on the way guidance works.

And these moments, these experiences of actual audio communication,

which I probably could maybe 10 times in my whole life, 10 times, it's not all the rest of the time.

It's organic spiritual breadcrumbs that are

based upon what I pray about, what I want to know, know, and I have learned and discovered.

Also, by the way, I decided to go back to the scripture because in all the stories, like Genesis is filled with stories of angels coming in to help the Israelites.

But always,

just like in my personal experience 2,500 years ago,

it's when your life's in trouble.

When your life's in trouble.

I didn't know a car was going to hit me.

I didn't know the house was possessed.

I didn't know that.

I couldn't have known it.

So when

they step in, get out of here now.

All right,

right.

And

what the experience feels like when you get direct audio for me, for me, I can only describe me,

is that it's like

for a micro mystical second,

everything in the life I'm living is suspended.

so that this guidance drops in and then I feel myself re-engaging.

And then I realize that I got the direct guidance not while I'm getting it but afterwards

but all the rest of guidance

is based on

how you pray what you pray for and the more you ask to understand something so that you can help others heaven just throws breadcrumbs at you

yeah

to be of greater service yeah if you said i don't know what to do and by the way I'm scared to do anything.

So like, help me out here.

That doesn't mean they'll take away your fear, but nine out of ten times, the most frightening path is the one you should take.

Say more.

Well, because guidance will never direct you to go backwards, to go into your history, to go back on the path you've just walked.

So what you're afraid of is the new.

And it's like, well, were you going to learn more about yourself?

Were you going to learn more about faith?

Were you going to learn more about trust?

And here's another thing.

Heaven sets it up so that

when you end up in a place where you don't know where you should, what you should do or whatever, that is primo spiritual territory.

No, no, because it prevents you from acts of sabotage in the form of expectations.

I expect this.

I expect that.

Where do you get off expecting anything?

but we do and you don't realize how you sabotage yourself with that well i expected this and i expected that uh-huh uh-huh and here's your angel uh-huh

uh-huh when in fact if you're a place where i like i don't know where i am at you you are so in such primo spiritual because now you can't do expectations how often in your life have the best things happened when you didn't expect them and it's because you didn't expect them that heaven could juggle balls Yeah, really questioning the expectations and living in the unknown.

Like I hear that that's the way, that's the growth opportunity.

And what people don't realize is every day is really virtually the unknown.

We think we're slow to change

because we like to things to be, and I do, I mean, I like things to remain the same.

But I will always say to God, you want to take everything, take it.

I'm here today again, and I thank you,

but I'm at your disposal.

What a prayer.

That's beautiful.

I will not lose my soul over something in the physical world that doesn't mean anything at all.

Are you kidding me?

Not at all.

Power.

That is powerful.

Yeah.

Staying true to yourself.

I'm loving everything we're talking about.

I also want to bring in some of the chakra work that you've done because when I was my third year at a master's program in spiritual psychology, it was consciousness, health, and healing.

And it was really developed around your work.

And so each month, we would go through a different chakra investigating the different themes that were coming up in our life around that chakra.

I actually missed the second chakra.

That it matched?

It did match.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I would love to hear some of your wisdom around the connection between illness and chakras.

Specifically, I know you talk about the first three being most correlated with illness.

Can you speak to us about this more?

I see chakras is just one

like the energetic database in our body, right?

and everything

has a different vibrational feel to it so and everything operates on the law of magnetic attraction and all the laws of the universe and they are also built into our physical our bio-spiritual ecology let me put it that way

and so look at how we develop when we're born

Our first seven years are those age of innocence where we are just making, so they're tribal, they're tribal years.

We're actually learning, but we're learning more not through reason, not through discernment, but through copying.

So the first chakra is very much into the groundedness,

into our sense of what it is to be on the earth again, to be in physical matter.

And

it has to do with absorbing tribal teachings.

It's the time of habius maximus, as they say in Latin, which I'm sure everybody speaks in your hood.

But what it means is the maximum habits of the heart that can only be absorbed by watching people live them.

This is why during that age, if a child is molested, anything, they can't articulate that.

But what it does is it jams the first chakra in such a way that

this person knows consciously or unconsciously i don't trust life

it is not safe here

and that becomes a first chakra wound so deep it is version of your psyche because it's connected to every tribal beliefs, tribal patterns.

As we go to the second, it's cologne.

We get to the third, perfume.

Okay.

As you develop your sense of self.

So this is

the we,

the tribal mind.

What will they say?

I can't tell you how many people hemorrhage because they are absolutely leaking their precious power to the, well, what will they say?

And I'll say, who's the they?

But it's also in this first chakra and then into the second where you develop

the other, one-on-one.

This is, you know, this is where we start getting a sense that we have to have survival skills, you know, and we start, and survival skills are essential for every human being to develop.

This is also our center where we realize we want to create.

How does this work?

How does that work?

The second chakra consciousness is something we could teach for a year.

It's about our relationship with creation, our relationship with what it is to feel divided and look for union.

Because the first chapter is like Pythagoras, number one, whole.

But you get to number two, you experience conflict.

It is the first time you set yourself up.

Am I going to be, and polarity comes in, the consciousness of winner, loser, more, less, this kind of thing.

And that's a consciousness people don't get out of.

And because they lock into that consciousness, they hemorrhage.

And what happens, and people don't get this, they actually approach every single relationship in life am i the winner here or the loser even if am i am i going to be dominant or receptive

victim or victor rapist or rapey

it is an unconscious

that radiates from there and it's not until a person really consciously thinks i got to get out of this mindset I got to get the hell out of this mind.

It's lethal.

It's creating horrible division in me.

You start ascending to the third, which is a sense of self.

And what that does is it redefines, it introduces choice in a whole nother way.

So, if I could do this again, think of your first chakra as

a job, the second, career,

the third chakra is your calling, where you have this sense of I am

in control enough of my

inner authority, what I believe that I can be called,

that I can be called.

And every human being wants to hear them.

God call them by name.

Beautiful.

I know you talked a little bit about archetypes earlier.

Do those correlate at all?

Or separate?

Okay.

Okay.

But what does correlate then, if you put in the mansions of Teresa and you put in seven musical notes and the numbers of Pythagoras, I mean, you build a universe around this.

A universe.

And when I started, I'm a big fan of Pythagoras in fact I may be in love with him I'm not sure but

you when you

put in

because the universe is math God is math mathematics consistent I mean when you start looking at the consciousness of numbers

and

And just like Pythagoras said, too is division.

For the first time, you get into the consciousness of the number two.

It's going to be divide and conquer and automatic and you have opposition and you have the structure of magnetism and you have the yin and the yang and you have all of this all of these active components

in the universe feed into our second chakra.

And what people, I mean, again and again, in my, you know, as I was doing readings, people hemorrhage from the waist down.

This is where you start draining all your

and even though you may have a heart attack, the reason for it is rooted in some issue in the first, second, or third chakra.

So what can we know about or be empowered with the knowledge around healing the first, second, and third chakra?

You don't just, you heal yourself.

You have to, you really do have to approach yourself as,

how do I understand my power?

How do I understand

me?

How do I, what is the purpose of truly, of being alive, the gift of life?

And imagine that when you die, you're going to be asked one question, which you are, which is, what did you do with the life you were given?

Now, how are you going to show up with a shopping cart and say, oh, look, what I got?

Or are you going to say, I hope I made the world a better place.

I did my best.

And in order to do that, I had to make me a better person.

So that's where I put my attention.

So you have to look at yourself and say, what rules do I really want to live by?

Do I want to be someone who blames and complains

or not?

Because then I'm saying nothing's going to end

and I'm hemorrhaging because what I'm doing is looking at a garden that I don't like and complaining to God, this isn't what I want.

Grow up.

Grow up.

Get a backbone.

Not a wishbone.

Get a backbone.

Yeah, beautiful.

fierce, tough love to really call somebody forward.

I love it.

And I love the straightforwardness of it.

And as we shifted inside of us, we are a more beneficial presence in the world.

And I know the macro and micro mirror.

And you were talking earlier about some of the struggles that people have around faith in our day and age in society right now.

How do you think this is kind of impacting us on a global scale?

Well, take a look at the world.

Take a look at this.

Look at our country.

Yeah.

Look at this country.

And

I think one of the most primitive behaviors in the world, and I do mean primitive, I mean primate, is to blame the other

and to deny what you yourself are doing in the celestial world.

That one of the most toxic elements in our biospiritual ecology is arrogance.

We don't get it.

That we know exactly how everything is and we want it just that way.

We become a planet full of human beings

who hold being ordinary in contempt.

There'll be anything.

You can't be ordinary.

You have to have extraordinary this and extra.

When in fact, it's the ordinary that has the power.

And they have to exaggerate and embellish and do this and do that, have a bigger car, this, this.

We went to this rare island for a vacation because no one else goes there.

See how special and the measure of being special

and there's the shadow side of it

is that i don't have to follow the laws anymore

i'll tell you how i know i'm special the measure of privileges they make exceptions for me i don't have to follow i don't have to wait in line I don't have to pay my

traffic things.

I know somebody with this.

The measure of being special is that I can live outside the law and that's where we're at and that is the darkest place in the world

because god is law the nature of god is law

the order of the universe the movement of the tides the fact that a choice will always have a consequence the fact that when you have a phoenix experience and you turn into an ash heaven will send you the bird to rise again.

It's a promise in the structure of the universe.

God is love, light, and law.

And when you start saying, I don't want to be subject to the laws, I just want to do whatever I want to do because I'm so special.

When I look at what's happening to our country, I have only fear because we have made becoming lawless the goal.

And what do you hope to see as the medicine?

To me, it comes back to love.

First, what's going to happen?

Within the darkness, then comes the love.

The purpose of life, really

is to make the journey from our love of power to the power of love that power

includes your decision that you'll use your life force to help empower others regardless of their public republican democrat they're your fellow human yeah

you use your power to empower others and you and you do that by even saying how can i see this person in the best light this this this nation we have is so fractured now that they think that somehow

a political party and faith have become one and the same thing that is a problem so all i see is crises everywhere yeah and kind of like you said earlier sometimes it needs to get worse before it gets better and suffering does have an intelligence in it and i know that a loving intelligence that orchestrates all of it including all of it, to me being in my power means keeping my heart open, even if it's keeping my heart heart open to my closed heart and yes there's choice and consequence and helping us look in the mirror and the projections and forgiving the judgments and being honest with our human experience but i'm just wondering in closing if there's anything you hope that people can really hear from where we are and how to move forward what i've i've really come to appreciate

is the structure of the divine within us and the universe, as it were.

And that the choices we make generate consequences and we must live those consequences that's all there's to it there's no off-planet god that's going to come down and say no stop it

but

if you really understood that that is your greatest power is choice

then you should sit back really like a retreat and reflect on what choices have I made that organize the way I think, that organize how I behave?

Do I blame others?

Well, that's got to stop.

Do I complain?

That's going to stop.

Do I pray?

That's going to start.

And by pray, I mean, just talk to the, talk to God.

Talk.

Just say, I need some grace.

Bad.

I need it now.

Help.

And

realize the more you pray for others, the more you're blessed.

Thank you for your wisdom.

Thank you for your heart.

I know my audience is going to want to stay connected.

Talk to us about what you're up to and where they can find you.

I'm finishing this book.

It's actually a book about

my experiences with angels, my experience with guidance, my experience with the truth that I've learned that I hope will benefit other people's lives.

And then, you know, the usual, I mean, I'll do a workshop tomorrow.

A couple of weeks ago, I was at the International Association of Near-Death Studies, which was a blast.

I'm going to the Theosophical Society tomorrow and then, you know, it goes on.

Yeah.

I was born to teach.

And I love your teachings and I love the wisdom that comes through.

And I will make sure that we put all of the links in the show notes here below.

Thank you again just for who you are.

I appreciate you.

Thank you.

Wonderful spending time with you.

Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world starting with yourself.

It truly does make a difference.

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I have so much more magic I want to share with you, and I cannot wait to do that soon.

But for now, I just want to say thank you so much for being an example of what it's like to live with an open heart and mind in the world.