2025 Update: The Marshes

Speaker 1 Pushkin.

Speaker 1 Hello, welcome to the studio, Khalila Holt.

Speaker 2 I've been welcomed to this studio so many times.

Speaker 1 We're going to be listening to an encore presentation of The Marshes.

Speaker 2 This is one of my favorite episodes.

Speaker 1 What is it about it that you think makes it a favorite?

Speaker 2 Part of it is just Steve.

Speaker 2 I think he is like such a lovable enjoyable person to hear from but also just like it's one where i felt genuinely emotional in the reporting at what was unfolding and then my hope is that we translated that into the episode itself And this is an episode that you produced.

Speaker 2 Yes, it is.

Speaker 1 With your own bare hands.

Speaker 2 Well, on the computer.

Speaker 3 Brick by brick. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, this was years in the making.

Speaker 2 Yeah, this was at the time, it was the longest production of an episode.

Speaker 1 I think this was the first episode that we did not name after an individual, but

Speaker 1 a group of people, because we, I don't know, by the end of the story, it felt like every single person

Speaker 1 brought something unique to it. And it was everybody's heavyweight in a sense.

Speaker 3 That's true.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, great.
Let's give it a listen. I'm excited to.
It's been a while.

Speaker 3 Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 This is the Marshes.

Speaker 1 And I should say that at the very end of the episode, we return all these years later with an update from Steve Marsh.

Speaker 4 It's not going to be what you expect.

Speaker 3 Stick around and find out.

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 1 You're not going to believe what you find out.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're not going to believe what he looks like today.

Speaker 2 I don't even know what he looked like originally.

Speaker 3 But first,

Speaker 1 I invite you to listen to these choice words from our sponsors.

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Speaker 6 This is Justin Richmond, host of Broken Record. When it comes to the holidays, I believe you fall into one of two two camps.

Speaker 6 Someone who loves holiday music, or someone who won't admit they love holiday music.

Speaker 6 There's something about a voice you love singing a familiar opening phrase, maybe it's Donnie Hathaway, maybe it's Mariah Carey, that just flips a switch and you're instantly back into that warm and cozy headspace only the holidays can bring.

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Speaker 6 That's their signature espresso with steamed milk and a rich caramel brulee flavor topped with whipped cream and a crunchy caramel brulee topping. It's like the sound of the season, but in drink form.

Speaker 6 And that's really what this season's about. Because this season and every season, together, is the best place to be.
Come together over your favorite holiday favorites at Starbucks.

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Speaker 1 Hello? As a doctor, would you write me a reference letter for medical school?

Speaker 7 Yes, I would write a reference letter.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, what would it say in it?

Speaker 7 It wouldn't necessarily be favorable, Jonathan.

Speaker 1 I'm sure a little bit favorable.

Speaker 1 Here, let me get you started. Okay, to whom it may concern.

Speaker 3 Go ahead.

Speaker 3 You take it over. Go ahead.

Speaker 8 John.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 John,

Speaker 7 you would be a terrible doctor.

Speaker 9 The worst ever.

Speaker 7 You don't listen, and you just keep going on and on. You'd be doing all the talking.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but a doctor has to ask questions to find out the symptoms.

Speaker 7 Yeah, but you wouldn't actually listen to the answer because you don't listen.

Speaker 8 You'd be arguing with patients, talking about yourself, you'd be just thinking about something else.

Speaker 9 Like, you just

Speaker 1 liked one of my tweets.

Speaker 1 From Gimlet Media, I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode: The Marshes.

Speaker 1 I first met Steve Marsh at my brother-in-law's wedding. In conversation that night, Steve was given to making soulful observations, punctuated by the word man.

Speaker 1 Steve is a big guy, shaggy-haired and comfortable in his own skin. He's a little like the dude.

Speaker 1 No matter where he is or what the occasion, he gives off the impression of wearing a comfy bathrobe flung open wide to the world.

Speaker 1 It's perhaps also worth mentioning that while Steve wasn't invited to the wedding per se, all the guests were both happy and unsurprised to see him.

Speaker 1 Of course Steve would be there, and his entrance felt like a lovable Saint Bernard had just wandered into the reception hall. Would you send a wedding invitation to a Saint Bernard? Of course not.

Speaker 1 But would you you be darn pleased to see one show up?

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 The next time Steve and I crossed paths was at another wedding. While everyone was inside drinking and eating, I found Steve outside, standing by the Hudson River, looking preoccupied.

Speaker 1 It was there, smoking from his pack of menthols, that Steve told me about his mom and a secret she'd been carrying around in shame for almost 40 years.

Speaker 1 Steve said the only reason he even knew about it was because it had slipped out by accident. And now that it had, he didn't know what to do about it.

Speaker 1 So after the wedding, we set aside some time to talk.

Speaker 3 How's fatherhead going, man? It's great.

Speaker 1 It's really great. Before getting into it, Steve and I catch up.

Speaker 1 He's just gotten engaged, and because he's Steve, the proposal he made was an elaborate production involving a ring baked into a cake and an entire restaurant of people cheering. His fiancé crying.

Speaker 1 Makes regular guys like me look real bad.

Speaker 3 I know, man. Her brothers are pissed at me too.
They're like, great job, dude.

Speaker 1 With the pleasantries out of the way, we get to the unpleasantry. His mom's secret.
Steve says he first learned of it in 2008 on the 4th of July.

Speaker 3 I was riding my bike.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 my phone was going off, like, non-stop. And I thought it was like a girl or a drug dealer.
It was like late. You know, it was like two in the morning.

Speaker 3 So finally I pulled my bike over and I saw it was my sister. My sister had called like 15 or 16 times, you know?

Speaker 1 Steve's sister, Megan Marsh, was up at the family's sprawling trailer lot in rural Minnesota, a place they call Marshland.

Speaker 1 On summer holiday weekends, it's tradition for the entire Marsh clan to head to Marshland to drink, hang out, and just just be the marshes.

Speaker 1 Seeing all the calls from Megan, Steve worried there was trouble up at Marshland.

Speaker 3 So I called and I was like, what's going on? And she was

Speaker 3 hysterical. You know, like,

Speaker 3 Steve, if you, if you knew that we had.

Speaker 3 And I was like, wait, hold on.

Speaker 10 I'm trying to get all this out and I'm crying and hysterical.

Speaker 1 This is Steve's sister, Megan.

Speaker 1 Between violent sobs, she explained to Steve what had happened. Up at Marshland, Steve's parents had gone to bed, but Megan continued to hang out with a handful of people around the bonfire.

Speaker 10 There's probably like five, seven of us sitting around the fire, and we start talking about Ouija boards.

Speaker 1 So, to keep up her end of the conversation, Megan tells the group an anecdote about her mom. how a Ouija board had accurately predicted the main facts of her mom's life.

Speaker 1 It had prophesied her future husband's initials, P.M. for Pete Marsh, as well as the amount of kids her mom would have, three.

Speaker 8 And my aunt is sitting, you know, three feet away from me. And my aunt said, well, she had four kids.

Speaker 10 And initially, I'm confused.

Speaker 8 You know, I've been drinking a little bit, so it's slowly coming into my brain what's happening. I look down at my fingers and counting, Stephen, me, Kevin.
What?

Speaker 8 What are you talking about?

Speaker 8 And then I look up around the fire. Everybody stops.
Everybody's silent. And they're all staring at me.

Speaker 3 So standing in this park talking to my sister on the 4th of July, she told me that my parents had

Speaker 3 another child, that we had

Speaker 3 another sibling that they gave up for adoption

Speaker 3 years before they married.

Speaker 1 The Marsh kids were full-grown adults when they learned of their full sibling, a little girl, 100% Marsh, that their mom had named Lisha.

Speaker 1 When Steve's parents, Jean and Pete, started dating, it was just a fling. And when Jean became pregnant, they decided to put the baby up for adoption.

Speaker 1 The unusual thing, though, is that after that, Jean and Pete ended up staying together. Seven years later, they had Steve.
And now, they've been married for almost 50 years.

Speaker 1 But all the while, neither of Steve's parents ever spoke of their eldest child.

Speaker 3 I mean, my family is like shockingly open. So the fact that they like sat on this secret,

Speaker 3 it was wild.

Speaker 1 It's now been years since the truth came out, and and the Marshes want to do something with that truth. But Steve says, procrastination is a family trait.

Speaker 1 And in this case, decades of his mother's shame has turned that procrastination into total inertia.

Speaker 1 But Leisha is never far from any of their thoughts. Megan wonders what it would be like to finally have a sister.
And Steve's younger brother, Kevin, wonders if Leisha is a redhead like him.

Speaker 1 Kevin scans every room for red hair.

Speaker 1 And then, there's Steve's dad. A few days days after the secret slipped out, Steve met up with him, as he does every week.

Speaker 3 My dad is a retired truck driver and kind of a tough guy. And every Monday night, we shoot shotguns together in the summertime.

Speaker 1 In the car, on the way to go shooting, Steve asked his dad how often he thought about Leisha.

Speaker 3 And he said, every day.

Speaker 3 And we drive, it's like a half-hour drive on the freeway.

Speaker 3 And about halfway there, no shit, man. This is like a short story thing.
It's almost too corny. But

Speaker 3 there was two ducks, like two adult ducks and three little baby ducks crossing the freeway. And my dad dipped like deep into the shoulder of the freeway and then recovered the car.
And like

Speaker 3 we waited a while and he's like, did you see me miss those ducks? And I was like, yeah,

Speaker 3 yeah.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 it's one of the few times I've seen my dad cry.

Speaker 1 But as much as the Marshes think about Leisha, when it comes to actually trying to find her, they're all waiting on Steve's mom.

Speaker 3 I think my dad,

Speaker 3 for as much of an alpha, tough guy, I think my mom runs his shit, you know?

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. So it's kind of up to her.
And I think she is scared about what maybe she'll find out. Like, if Leisha has hard feelings about this, or if Leisha's life didn't go as well as it could have

Speaker 3 or or how Leisha will feel to meet her family that's intact and went on to have three more kids. Like, wouldn't that be weird?

Speaker 1 Sure, the family's intact, and as Steve explains, the Marsh kids are all close and doing well now. Megan has a career as a nurse, Steve writes, and Kevin repairs home appliances.

Speaker 1 But growing up, there were a lot of drugs and a lot of trouble. Kevin had a serious meth problem, and Steve and Megan drank too much.

Speaker 1 Steve almost flunked out of high school, and Kevin and Megan both dropped out.

Speaker 1 There was one Christmas the Marshes spent visiting Kevin in treatment, and one weekend Steve spent in jail because he and Kevin got into a brawl over a Beastie Boy C D.

Speaker 3 And I'm just wondering, like, Leisha, who was raised in a totally separate environment,

Speaker 3 I just wonder what she's like, you know?

Speaker 3 Our house was so loud when growing up. And

Speaker 3 like, I always thought my family's kind of weird. Like, they drink

Speaker 3 Windsor 7-up, like, it's going to be vanishing from the face of the earth.

Speaker 1 So, what is Windsor 7-up?

Speaker 3 That's the Marsh family drink, man.

Speaker 1 Pardon my ignorance.

Speaker 3 7 and 7, man. It could be Seagram's, too.
Canadian whiskey and lemon lime soda.

Speaker 1 But finding out whether Leisha is like a marsh, steeped in Windsor and chaos, isn't so simple.

Speaker 3 So the hospital no longer exists.

Speaker 1 The hospital where your mom had her.

Speaker 3 Right. And it was a closed Catholic adoption.
Like my parents never met the couple that adopted Lecia.

Speaker 1 Steve has no information about where Leisha ended up. He had a friend with connections run the name Leisha Marsh through an FBI database, but found found nothing.

Speaker 1 It's almost certain Leisha's name isn't even Leisha anymore. Because it was a closed adoption, the only way to reach her is through the adoption agency.

Speaker 1 Steve's mom has to write Leisha a letter asking to make contact. But whenever she's tried to write in the past, her sense of shame gets the better of her.

Speaker 3 It's like she wants to do it, she said she would do it.

Speaker 3 Like,

Speaker 3 what do I do? You know, like, how do we make this happen?

Speaker 1 And this is why Steve has come to me. He needs a spur to action, someone who isn't a marsh, to make sure the letter gets written.

Speaker 3 We could use some help. It's almost like when you want to like

Speaker 3 go to the gym or something, just like have somebody else who's going with you, like some kind of accountability.

Speaker 3 Because

Speaker 3 when we talk about it as a family, and we do, whenever we get together, like my parents are all game for it, but then it just doesn't happen and it hasn't happened do you do you need to really kind of

Speaker 3 show up with a pad of paper and a pen and you know place it on the table right in front of her right like let's do this now

Speaker 1 and so in a bid to do this now I tell Steve to phone his mom and tell her to clear her schedule because his wedding friend Jonathan is boarding a plane to Minnesota and heading straight to their house to make sure she writes that letter.

Speaker 3 I just think we need a little help, you know?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Well, what you need is your mother to get off her ass and do this.

Speaker 7 So, who is now who is this guy? Just tell me again.

Speaker 1 After the break, this guy pays a visit to the marshes.

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Speaker 6 This is Justin Richmond, host of Broken Record. I firmly believe when it comes to the holidays, you fall into one of two camps.

Speaker 6 Someone who loves holiday music or someone who won't admit they love holiday music.

Speaker 6 There's something about a voice you love singing that familiar opening phrase, maybe it's Donnie Hathaway, maybe it's Mariah Carey, that just flips a switch and you're instantly back into that warm and cozy headspace only the holidays can bring.

Speaker 6 For me, that feeling pairs perfectly with a cup of Starbucks Caramel Brulee Latte.

Speaker 6 That's their signature espresso with steamed milk and a rich caramel brulee flavor topped with whipped cream and a crunchy caramel brulee topping. It's like the sound of the season, but in drink form.

Speaker 6 And that's really what this season's about. Little moments of pairing, little moments of connection.
Sharing a song, sharing a story, sharing a caramel brulee latte.

Speaker 6 Because this season and every season, together, is the best place to be. Come together over your holiday favorites at Starbucks.

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Speaker 5 Hi!

Speaker 1 In Minneapolis, I pick Steve up in my airport rental and we head to his parents' house for some letter writing. He's nervous, which is not helped by my economy-sized car.

Speaker 3 I think this is as far back as it goes.

Speaker 1 Steve struggles to shoehorn his body into the passenger seat.

Speaker 6 Do you want to sit in the backseat?

Speaker 3 No, you could.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 Although Steve says it's all good, thanks to my Minnesotan to American Translator app, I know that he's in fact deeply resentful.

Speaker 3 You're gonna have to direct me because I don't know where your parents live.

Speaker 1 But wouldn't it be weird if they did?

Speaker 1 We arrive at Steve's parents' place. It's a one-story rambler, cluttered and cozy.

Speaker 3 Hi, Jonathan. Hi, Jonathan.
Hi there.

Speaker 7 Hey, Jonathan, I'm Pete.

Speaker 3 Hi, Pete. How the hell are you, buddy?

Speaker 1 We settle in around the kitchen table. Pete makes his way through his daily two pots of coffee, and Jean quietly stares down at a blank piece of paper.

Speaker 1 To help spur her letter writing, I ask how she and Pete first met, and Jean becomes animated, telling me about a party at which Pete stumbled in late with a group of friends.

Speaker 3 They were all drunk.

Speaker 7 I can't remember if he kissed me on the knee and bit me in the ankle or vice versa.

Speaker 1 That's like what the serpent did in

Speaker 3 the biblical story.

Speaker 7 I think so and I should have never eaten that apple.

Speaker 1 Soon after, Jean moved into a new apartment building where in a delightful sitcom twist, Pete was living right down the hall.

Speaker 1 That Thanksgiving, Pete stopped by Jean's place, drank her entire bottle of Windsor, then drunkenly proceeded to show the dinner guests his gun.

Speaker 5 Guns are no big thing for me.

Speaker 6 Right. Because I got them laying all over the place.

Speaker 1 To illustrate, Pete reaches on top of of the kitchen cupboard and pulls down a 45 automatic. He places it on the table next to the pie that Steve brought.

Speaker 3 How many guns do you have here around the house? There's one over on the fireplace, 20 downstairs.

Speaker 1 The party, the bottle of Windsor, the gun. These are all parts of the Marsh family origin story that Steve knows well.

Speaker 1 But the part of the story that Steve has never heard is how his parents went from a casual fling to a decades-long marriage.

Speaker 7 I got pregnant.

Speaker 7 I went home and told my mother, and she flipped out on me. I remember leaving, I was down in the basement with my mother in the laundry room.

Speaker 7 I just remember running up the stairs and crying, and getting in the car and driving back to my apartment because I was trash in her mind.

Speaker 1 Jean came from a strict Catholic family. When she got pregnant, her mother told her she could only visit home after dark, carrying a coat in front of her stomach.

Speaker 1 At one point during the pregnancy, Jean slipped on the ice and had to go to the hospital for hemorrhaging.

Speaker 7 And my mother came into the hospital and said, You can't even have a baby, right?

Speaker 7 I mean, she was so disappointed in me. I don't think she ever forgave me for that.

Speaker 7 That's the one thing I said to her before she died is, I am sorry for disappointing you.

Speaker 1 Leisha was born premature, so the doctors kept her at the hospital for a week. This meant Jean ended up spending a week with her newborn daughter.

Speaker 7 I remember holding her.

Speaker 7 and crying

Speaker 7 and telling her, you know, that I hoped she'd have a good life and

Speaker 7 said I was sorry that I couldn't keep her.

Speaker 1 After that week, Jean signed away her parental rights.

Speaker 7 I didn't think I could raise a child by myself, but you never said.

Speaker 3 What?

Speaker 7 He never said,

Speaker 7 hey, let's get married and raise this baby.

Speaker 7 And I never said it either. But his mother, Alice, just took me in as this, you know, I felt like I was part of the family.

Speaker 7 So I felt this family love that I wasn't getting from my own family, you know.

Speaker 1 Pete's mom told Jean how much the whole family liked her, how they hoped she would be the one. And that painful time brought Jean and Pete closer.
They ended up really falling in love.

Speaker 1 And eventually, they did get married.

Speaker 1 And all this time, Leisha, responsible for them growing into love together, having three more kids being a family for going on 50 years was out there somewhere living a different life with a different family and I don't know that dad and I have we've never sat down like this and talked about it right it's just kind of something that happened 48 years ago

Speaker 1 For 48 years, Jean has quietly marked Lisha's birthday by repeating the same silent prayer. I hope she's having a good life.

Speaker 1 And it's that hope that ironically made Jean think twice about ever searching for Leisha.

Speaker 1 She told herself that if Leisha was happy, she didn't need to disrupt that happiness by introducing her to the marshes and their chaos.

Speaker 7 Our family was so loud and so,

Speaker 7 you know, drug use and, you know, not going to school. And it seems like there was always so much going on.

Speaker 7 Did I really want to bring somebody else into that?

Speaker 7 It was problems. That I was bringing her into more problems.

Speaker 3 It was hectic.

Speaker 7 It was more than hectic, Steve.

Speaker 7 And I'd go do my Avon door to door, and somebody would say, would you like to come in for a minute? And I'd sit down. And I always said, it was like I was sitting down in their beige.

Speaker 7 You know, they had this peaceful house, neat, nothing out of place. And then I'd walk in here and it'd be like

Speaker 7 jangled.

Speaker 1 So while Steve's motivation for seeking out Leisha is pretty simple, he has a sister and he wants to meet her. For Jean, it's more complicated.

Speaker 1 Her greatest hope is that Lisha is happy and well, that she did the right thing in giving her up.

Speaker 1 But if Leisha is good, didn't fall into drugs, did do well in school, and had a good life in the beige, then trouble wasn't something genetic, a fate that runs through the marsh blood.

Speaker 1 It was to Jean's thinking, something in the parenting,

Speaker 3 her parenting.

Speaker 7 I just want, I want the kids more or less to be prepared that she may not want anything to do with us. I'm open to meeting her.
I'm open to just pictures. I'm

Speaker 7 open to having her tell me I'm a piece of shit. That's fine.
I'm willing to do whatever she wants because I feel the ball is in her court.

Speaker 7 Worst case scenario would be if she had passed away and I never

Speaker 3 tried.

Speaker 7 Did you you want to have pie now?

Speaker 6 Oh, should I get the ice cream? You want ice cream?

Speaker 1 Steve serves the mixed berry pie that he brought and turns us to the matter at hand.

Speaker 3 So, um, you want to try writing the letter? Yeah.

Speaker 3 We should do it now, so.

Speaker 7 Yes, because your mother is a procrastinator.

Speaker 3 Oh, I am too.

Speaker 7 But you probably got it from me.

Speaker 3 Or if Leisha's a procrastinator, too, that's the only way we'll know.

Speaker 1 Jean finds it easier to talk than to write. So Steve offers to type the letter as Jean speaks it aloud.
Then she can copy it down by hand. Jean stares down at the table, trying to get started.

Speaker 7 I don't know what to say.

Speaker 7 I feel bad because we stayed together. Why? And

Speaker 7 I feel like it's been 48 years. Now, why are you coming around now?

Speaker 7 Is what she'll be thinking.

Speaker 5 No, just say hi.

Speaker 3 How are you?

Speaker 7 I remember your name. I remember your birthday.

Speaker 7 I remember holding you

Speaker 7 and telling you that I wanted you to have a good life.

Speaker 7 Lisa,

Speaker 7 I'm stumbling for words,

Speaker 7 wondering how to

Speaker 7 probably because it's been so many years,

Speaker 7 but wondering how to, I mean, how to explain the fact that I haven't tried to contact you all these years.

Speaker 3 I don't think we need to get that heavy.

Speaker 6 I'm your mom, give me a call.

Speaker 3 But also, you do want to acknowledge why this was meaningful to you. You know, you're like,

Speaker 3 it's tough. God.

Speaker 7 Three years after you were born, your father and I

Speaker 7 were married or got back together.

Speaker 1 Well, we got back together right after.

Speaker 3 Oh, God.

Speaker 7 See, now it all seems so stupid.

Speaker 7 But

Speaker 3 like you can't change the past. No, I can't.
And

Speaker 3 you needed to live through this in order to have perspective on it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 three years after you were born, your father and I were married.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 7 now have two sons and a daughter

Speaker 7 who are open to making contact.

Speaker 7 Or does open sound.

Speaker 3 I think all of us would like to meet you

Speaker 3 when you're ready.

Speaker 3 I don't think maybe it needs to be any more than that. That's good.

Speaker 7 And then just put our names.

Speaker 3 Hugs and kisses.

Speaker 1 We all watch as Gene copies the letter over by hand.

Speaker 3 You did good, G.

Speaker 3 Thank you, dear.

Speaker 1 Steve and I head back to the rental. For a while, we just sit there.

Speaker 1 Think that they're going to get those forms off?

Speaker 3 It's going to happen this week, for sure.

Speaker 1 Really? You think so?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 It doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 It doesn't happen in the next month or the one after that, partly because Steve hasn't been spurring his mom.

Speaker 1 Since we all sat down in Jean's kitchen, Steve has developed second thoughts about contacting Leisha. I'm just nervous that she's like angry about the way things turned out.

Speaker 11 And I'm nervous about what kind of impact that will have on my mom.

Speaker 11 I've had some conversations with friends. It's like, what are you doing this for?

Speaker 11 I don't know. Like,

Speaker 11 there's real potential for sadness.

Speaker 1 Two more months pass, and I'm having trouble being a spur to Steve's spurring.

Speaker 1 Hey, Steve, it's Jonathan speaking.

Speaker 1 Just calling to check in. I can't get a hold of anyone.
Mr. and Mrs.
Marsh, this is

Speaker 1 the man who came over to your home some time ago.

Speaker 1 Another two months go by, and still no movement.

Speaker 1 And so I decide that maybe it's better to just leave them be. Maybe the Marshes would rather just forget the whole thing and go back to being the same marshes they always were.

Speaker 1 Hello?

Speaker 3 Gene?

Speaker 3 Yes. Hi, Jonathan.

Speaker 1 And then, after a half a year of foot-dragging, I unexpectedly get word that Jean has mailed the letter and the application.

Speaker 1 From there, a social worker was assigned to the case. Her job to find Leisha and ask if she's open to receiving Jean's letter.
And not long after that, the social worker gave Jean an update.

Speaker 1 She got a call

Speaker 1 from

Speaker 1 Lisa and

Speaker 1 she said she was very open to seeing my letters.

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Speaker 3 Okay, you guys want coffee?

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 how are you doing, everybody? I'll have a coffee, Mom. I brought cannolis.

Speaker 1 And back at the marshes to catch up.

Speaker 1 Once Leisha said she was open to seeing Jean's letter, the social worker mailed it on to her. But after that, Jean heard nothing for months.

Speaker 1 Then, one afternoon at work, Jean got an email from the social worker. The subject heading read, The letter you've been waiting for.

Speaker 1 Attached was a scanned copy of a letter from Leisha.

Speaker 7 Dear Jean and Pete, thank you for your patience while I formulate my first response to your letter. My name is Natalie and I grew up in a suburb of Minneapolis.

Speaker 1 Leisha is now Natalie.

Speaker 1 And it turns out she grew up just 20 miles from where the Marshes live.

Speaker 1 Her adoptive parents are even graduates of the same high school as Jean.

Speaker 1 Growing up, Natalie always knew she was adopted, and she loved the parents who raised her.

Speaker 1 Natalie is now married with two kids.

Speaker 7 The best advice I've received since I opened your letter was to take it slow. And then she sent a picture when she was a little girl.

Speaker 1 You see a resemblance?

Speaker 3 Oh, she's definitely a Marshman.

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Dear Natalie, Pete and I were so happy to receive your letter and picture. It was truly an answer to my prayers.
Let me know if you have any questions.

Speaker 7 I will try to answer them to the best of my ability.

Speaker 1 And so, a correspondence begins.

Speaker 7 Dear Jean and Pete. Dear Natalie, who did I get my auburn hair from? Pete was a redhead.
Who can I thank for my unibrow when I was young?

Speaker 7 My grandfather had very bushy eyebrows, so he's probably the culprit.

Speaker 1 Love Natalie.

Speaker 7 Love Gene and Pete.

Speaker 1 Natalie is taking it slow. She's cautious, and Gene is following her lead.
But sometimes, it can get overwhelming.

Speaker 7 Dear Natalie, we want to wish you the happiest of birthdays on the 17th. I've wished it every year since you were born.
And I'm so happy I can finally tell you.

Speaker 7 I hope someday we can meet. But until then, know you've been loved.
Pete and Jean.

Speaker 1 Natalie's responses are gracious.

Speaker 7 Dear Jean and Pete, my kids constantly ask me about the day they were born. We moms think about those moments always.
Someday you will have to tell me about our day.

Speaker 1 But there are a lot of somedays, no specific plans. Even after months of correspondence, Gene and Natalie are still going through Stacey, the social worker.
They don't exchange phone numbers.

Speaker 1 They don't even know each other's email addresses.

Speaker 7 It's tentative.

Speaker 7 I mean, I've had a relationship with these three kids for 40 40 years, you know, and I haven't had that with her.

Speaker 7 And sometimes that's sad, you know, that we don't have that. But I think we'll get there.

Speaker 7 You want to get there. Yeah, I would like to get there.

Speaker 1 Jean finds herself staring at Natalie's picture while she's at work, idly thinking about what the little girl in the photo's childhood was like.

Speaker 1 And then comes the guilt in not having been able to give her what she needed. And all the while, Natalie is so close.

Speaker 3 Why don't you call her up and say come on over?

Speaker 7 No, because she doesn't want that.

Speaker 3 Then we all don't live to be able

Speaker 3 at the same time. That's true.

Speaker 1 But at the same time, she worries about what Natalie will make of that life.

Speaker 1 How will Jean be able to have Natalie over to her home? In Jean's mind, the place is always so untidy, the grouding in the bathroom unfinished, the tiles in the entryway in need of repair.

Speaker 1 So while Jean's wait for Natalie is filled with hope, it's also filled with fear.

Speaker 1 Time ticks by. Natalie and Jean continue to exchange letters.
And eventually, Natalie decides they don't have to go through Stacey, the social worker, anymore. They can email each other directly.

Speaker 1 And a few months after that, Jean asks Natalie for her phone number.

Speaker 1 I just want to be able to hear your voice sometimes, Jean says. And Natalie says yes.

Speaker 1 Steve's wedding is a month away. It's been a full year since Natalie received that first letter, and Steve wants to invite her to the wedding.

Speaker 1 But Jean doesn't think a big family event is the right setting for everyone to meet for the first time. So Jean asks Natalie if they can all go out for dinner.

Speaker 1 Natalie writes back and says, I think we can make that happen.

Speaker 1 Hi,

Speaker 3 how are you?

Speaker 3 Good dog. Good doggy.

Speaker 1 And today's the day.

Speaker 1 I arrive at Steve's house as he gets ready to meet Natalie for dinner.

Speaker 1 His fiancée Maggie and his brother Kevin are there too.

Speaker 3 Nice to see you.

Speaker 1 Steve has lent Kevin a pair of jeans because Kevin was wearing shorts and feared they might not be appropriate for meeting your sister for the first time. Steve is still getting dressed.

Speaker 3 This is my only pair of clean pants at the moment. I don't want my new sister to smell me, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 That'd be awful, right?

Speaker 3 So I want to appear to be clean.

Speaker 1 Since the Marshes are worried about making a good impression, they barred me and my microphone from the dinner. This in spite of my important work, documenting and interloping.

Speaker 1 Instead of saying, fk all of you, fing rotten fks,

Speaker 1 I tell Steve that it's all good.

Speaker 1 Hey, I'm getting pretty good at this Minnesota talk.

Speaker 2 I think we should leave in five or ten minutes. Okay.

Speaker 1 And we should not smoke weed?

Speaker 3 I already did earlier.

Speaker 3 I took Visine though. I'm fine.

Speaker 3 Turn the radio off.

Speaker 1 Steve has made a reservation at a pizza restaurant. On the drive there, he worries.
But as usual, it isn't for himself.

Speaker 3 I worry about my mom.

Speaker 1 The worry has always been twofold. Firstly, what if Natalie's life hasn't turned out well and it's all Jean's fault for having given her up?

Speaker 1 But based on Jean and Natalie's correspondence, Natalie has a nice husband, sweet kids, and a career that keeps her busy, flying to far-off places like Mexico City and Singapore.

Speaker 1 So now, with that first worry allayed, The second worry rears its head. What if Natalie is not only not in bad shape, but in great shape? All due to Jean's lack of parenting.

Speaker 1 In other words, Steve's now worried that, as far as Jean might believe, it isn't the genes.

Speaker 3 It's Jean.

Speaker 3 A person with the same genetic makeup as your three kids who did

Speaker 3 get all these things.

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 yeah, there's... I think there's some pain there, man.
Like, there's some pain with my mom. Like, that she failed us or something.

Speaker 3 Or that we failed her.

Speaker 3 Oh shit, it's 6:18. Are we gonna make it?

Speaker 1 Yeah, but isn't it supposed to be 6:45 that you guys are meeting?

Speaker 3 6:30, 6:30.

Speaker 1 No, but your folks will be there.

Speaker 3 Are they? Our family is predisposed towards being late all the time.

Speaker 1 A few blocks from the restaurant, Steve drops me off at the side of the road. He says they'll let me know how it goes.

Speaker 1 Okay, bye, you guys. Have fun.

Speaker 1 Later, I'll learn that Pete, Jean, and Megan were uncharacteristically on time and are there to greet Natalie and her husband when they arrive. Jean hugs Natalie and introduces her to Megan.

Speaker 1 Natalie and Megan stare at each other. They look so similar.
I wish I could wear my hair like that, Natalie says, and Megan smiles. Steve, Maggie, and Kevin arrive as the table is being prepared.

Speaker 1 While they wait, they all make nervous small talk. Pete fills the silence by talking about how old his shoes are, about fishing.

Speaker 1 The others join in talking about goldfish they've owned, the relative merits of Pac-Man versus Miss Pac-Man, restaurants they like.

Speaker 3 They compare their heights.

Speaker 1 Eventually, the host leads them outside to a round wooden table built around a tree. The group orders pizza and wine.
They all cheers.

Speaker 1 Everyone has questions for Natalie. They don't totally understand what her job is, but it has something to do with selling accounting software all over the world.

Speaker 1 They get the impression that she's in charge of things. Natalie has a confidence.
She sits beside Kevin who shows her a photo of himself coming in second in a hot dog eating contest.

Speaker 1 Natalie seems impressed. During the salad course, Jean tells the story of how when Steve first found out about Natalie, he joked, thanks for keeping me, Mom.

Speaker 1 It's not too late, Natalie interjects. You could still be abandoned.
Everyone laughs. Natalie shares the Marsh's dark sense of humor.
It looks like Natalie is coming to Steve's wedding.

Speaker 1 It's the kind of night where it seems like it could rain at any minute. So Jean grabs the check.
Steve sees the look on her face as she glances it over.

Speaker 1 Mom, he says quietly, so Natalie won't hear.

Speaker 3 We'll help you.

Speaker 1 The kids all go home that night and request Natalie's friendship on Facebook. Jean and Pete drive home, with Jean smiling all the way.

Speaker 1 When we came home that night, Pete was opening the door and I just put my hand on his shoulder and I said, you know,

Speaker 1 Dad looked out for her all these years.

Speaker 1 And so we've been blessed.

Speaker 1 We truly have. It was joyous.

Speaker 13 All the kids were so comfortable. Everybody was asking questions.
There was a lot of laughter. There was a lot of

Speaker 13 joking and talking.

Speaker 9 And it was very emotional.

Speaker 13 And there's still a lot of thought process there that's going to

Speaker 13 maybe be with me all my life.

Speaker 13 But I know that she had a good life.

Speaker 13 And she's got a wonderful life now.

Speaker 13 I couldn't have asked for anything more.

Speaker 9 I really couldn't have.

Speaker 1 You felt like you wanted Natalie to have a good life,

Speaker 1 but that was complicated because you felt like it might reflect on your parenting in some way. So, I'm wondering, how do you feel about that now?

Speaker 13 You still have guilt.

Speaker 9 But I think I just realized that no matter what I did or didn't do,

Speaker 9 they've all grown up to be wonderful human beings.

Speaker 9 And

Speaker 9 we can move on.

Speaker 1 All the things Jean had worried about, that Natalie might resent her, that the family might be too much for her, in the end didn't matter. That night at the restaurant, things were simple.

Speaker 1 They were all just happy to be together.

Speaker 1 But there's still one thing.

Speaker 1 For months, Steve's priority has been his mom's feelings. The effect all of this is having on her.
All the while, though, a feeling of his own was slowly taking shape.

Speaker 1 At the pizza restaurant, Steve had wanted to say something to Natalie all night, but he couldn't find the words.

Speaker 1 What I really wish I would have told her is thank you, man. Thank you for you you existing like your miracle of coming into the world and the way it happened like brought my parents back together

Speaker 1 but then how do you thank someone a stranger for giving your family life for giving you life

Speaker 7 hey how are you good good to see you

Speaker 1 in my role as loyal spur I've invited Steve and Natalie to my office so Steve can at least give it a try It's the first time Steve and Natalie have gotten to talk one-on-one since this all began.

Speaker 14 I never thought.

Speaker 14 I never thought someone would search for me.

Speaker 1 This is Natalie.

Speaker 3 Wow. He just never...
He never even considered that.

Speaker 1 Steve explains that during the search, the Marsh is worried that they might not live up to Natalie's expectations.

Speaker 3 You know, you're such an accomplished person.

Speaker 14 Gosh, my LinkedIn profile is really doing its job.

Speaker 14 I'm a PR major. No,

Speaker 3 I mean, honestly, like, you seem like such a funny, like,

Speaker 3 even keel

Speaker 3 person, you know, like, like, you have a wicked sense of humor.

Speaker 3 It's just, it's cool. It's cool.
Like, you're funny.

Speaker 3 You know, you're wearing, you have an iPhone watch and you're killing it. You know what I mean? That was a gift.

Speaker 14 Everything's a gift.

Speaker 3 My husband, that's Al.

Speaker 14 No, but don't put me on a pedestal.

Speaker 14 I don't deserve it.

Speaker 1 Natalie's uncomfortable with her life being held up as a success story. She tries to explain that her house had its own share of chaos.

Speaker 1 Her brother faced some of the same challenges with drugs and other troubles that the Marsh kids faced. It feels like what she's trying to say is, blood, parenting.

Speaker 1 I don't know why things turned out the way they have.

Speaker 1 But Steve is undeterred in his effort to offer Natalie credit. And so, tentatively, he gets to the thing he's been trying to say for a while now.

Speaker 3 I mean, I feel like

Speaker 3 it's weird to thank somebody who didn't elect to be adopted. But, like,

Speaker 3 maybe my parents would have never gotten back together if it wasn't for you.

Speaker 3 You brought them together. Like, I think it was kind of a fling kind of situation.
And it turned into a like a 45-year marriage, you know, a 50-year-old

Speaker 3 stats, but uh

Speaker 1 Natalie can see that Steve is struggling, but she's struggling too. If Steve is trying to say thanks for my life, how does she simply say you're welcome?

Speaker 1 So instead, Natalie offers thanks of her own, in the way of a story, about Steve's mom and her mom.

Speaker 14 When my mom was around, she and I were really, really close.

Speaker 14 She wanted to think.

Speaker 14 You know, when, you know, I wish I could thank her, she kept saying.

Speaker 3 I just wish I could thank her. Oh, man.

Speaker 14 Right?

Speaker 14 And

Speaker 14 when she passed away in 2004, she couldn't.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 14 So the first thing I wanted to do was

Speaker 14 do the thinking.

Speaker 14 That decision

Speaker 14 set

Speaker 14 the trajectory of my life.

Speaker 14 I'm so lucky to be where I'm at.

Speaker 1 In the end, Steve and Natalie are both grateful for the same thing. The family that they ended up with

Speaker 14 Everyone always asked, well, have you ever thought of reaching out?

Speaker 14 I always had the answer.

Speaker 3 I'm like, no, I'm good.

Speaker 14 I have a great family.

Speaker 14 You know, once I open that door, I can never close it.

Speaker 14 When I received the letter, I can honestly say I

Speaker 14 didn't have this figured out. And I thought about what my path would be.
If I'm on a crossroad of do I

Speaker 14 do I pursue this or do I let it go.

Speaker 1 As Natalie speaks, you can see a thought thought flash across Steve's face.

Speaker 1 All this time, he's been trying to thank Natalie for something she didn't even decide, rather than for the thing that she did decide.

Speaker 3 When you put it like that way, when you put it like that,

Speaker 3 like you did have a choice here whether to even talk to us, you know, like, like you could have been like, no, you risked, you opened the door.

Speaker 3 Like, and so yeah, I guess, Natalie, I do thank you for that, man. Like, the way that you've been with my mom has been super cool, man.
And I, I,

Speaker 3 I thank you for that. Oh, well, I

Speaker 1 like uh, she kind of deserves, like, uh,

Speaker 3 I think, like, cool stuff in life, you know. And, like,

Speaker 3 you've been really cool, man.

Speaker 3 That's choice.

Speaker 3 Hi!

Speaker 1 It's been two and a half years since the search for Natalie began. And in that time, Natalie's interactions with the marshes have been based around occasions.
Jean's birthday, Steve's wedding.

Speaker 1 But today, they're all just hanging out. Steve and his new wife Maggie wanted to have everyone over for a backyard barbecue.
Even me.

Speaker 1 On our way to the yard, Steve gives me a quick tour of the house, his shelves loaded with books, his plants.

Speaker 1 Is that indigenous to this area?

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 Natalie shows up with her husband and two kids. Pete, the tough guy who thought about Natalie every day for almost 50 years, is there to greet them.

Speaker 3 Well, how you guys been? I'm good.

Speaker 3 I gotta have a hug.

Speaker 7 Absolutely.

Speaker 3 Oh, hey,

Speaker 3 hey, hey, hey. There you go.

Speaker 1 Shortly after, Kevin shows up with a bottle of vodka and a big bag of frisbees.

Speaker 3 Who wants to pick Frisbee? Hey!

Speaker 1 And then Megan, who heads straight for Natalie.

Speaker 3 Hey, Natalie! Hey! Hey, Meg!

Speaker 1 But there's one person who's running late.

Speaker 7 Should I call your mom and see where she is?

Speaker 3 I don't know.

Speaker 1 As it turns out, Gene is still stuck at the grocery store, buying some last-minute stuff for the party. Classic, Steve says.
The marshes are unorganized, chronically late.

Speaker 1 And maybe that's true. Or maybe Jean is pacing the aisles, procrastinating, nervous about what Natalie might make of how the marshes live, with their ayahuasca plants and vodka frisbees.

Speaker 1 But in the end, Jean doesn't wait years, weeks, days, or hours. She's only late by 15 minutes.

Speaker 1 Maybe Jean wasn't procrastinating at all. Maybe she wanted to show up late.

Speaker 1 To be the last one to walk into the backyard

Speaker 1 with everyone already there

Speaker 1 and see the whole family hanging out, joking and talking. Everyone just happy to be together.

Speaker 7 Oh my gosh, look at that.

Speaker 3 Yes, you did. That's the floss.

Speaker 3 Now that the furniture's returning to its goodwill home

Speaker 3 Now that the last month's rent is scheming with the damaged deposit Take this moment to decide

Speaker 3 if we meant it if we tried

Speaker 3 But felt around for far too much

Speaker 3 from things that accidentally touched

Speaker 3 I got a message from Natalie yesterday. I got a text for happy sibling day.
It was a sibling day yesterday.

Speaker 1 Are you guys in regular touch?

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. Like, we have a family text thread named after the episode.
It's called The Marshes.

Speaker 3 But,

Speaker 3 like, just my mom was over to babysit Monroe last night.

Speaker 1 Is it your son?

Speaker 3 My son, yeah.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 my mom was just like on the phone with Natalie, and there's Natalie, you know, they're talking about Natalie was talking about her work. Like they're,

Speaker 3 it's just cool to see, man, you know, like my mom has a relationship with her. I have a relationship with her.
I, I, I went to um her son's basketball game and brought my son.

Speaker 1 That's really nice that you're doing stuff like that.

Speaker 3 Well, I wanted I wanted to knit our families together, you know, in a way. And um

Speaker 3 I asked Natalie if she would be Monroe's godmother.

Speaker 4 Oh man, that's so nice to hear. What would she say?

Speaker 3 Yeah, she was down, you know.

Speaker 3 She's like a

Speaker 3 late-in-the-game kind of gift from the universe.

Speaker 1 That's really nice, Steve.

Speaker 3 It worked out, man. It turned out to have a really happy ending.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and we're friends as a result.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and then we're friends as a result.

Speaker 3 I live here now. Now, you guys live in our neighborhood.
Yeah, that's right. We do.
Yeah. Do you want to babysit Monroe on Tuesday?

Speaker 3 Yeah, always.

Speaker 1 That'd be great.

Speaker 1 Thanks to everyone who helped put this episode together. We'll be back next week with another Encore presentation and along with it, another update from our guest.

Speaker 3 If Emily's... Emily? I mean, chances are, yeah, if we're around, Emily's.

Speaker 5 This is Malcolm Glaubwell from Medal of Honor Stories of Courage. This message is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union.

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