HTC Mailbag: Who is the Dalton Line of NFL Head Coaches?

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Wait, wait, wait, wait.

I have seen this

act like roughly 975 times in my life before we, you know.

All right, let's roll.

Welcome to Heed the Call, Heed in the Call,

third show of the week.

We are now

two weeks away from real football.

Dan Hansis,

Mark Sessler.

Yeah, baby.

Sessy, busy time of year, but we are thriving right now.

It is.

I also think it's that it's the part of the preseason where it takes a hard right turn where it's like, okay, don't song and dance me anymore.

Don't whine and dine me.

Treat me seriously.

Let's get to the real stuff.

Like, we kind of get it.

Pre-season's got a little bit of light fare.

Bring me the dishes of meat on a platter, large pieces of meat that I can eat.

Good for you,

Mr.

Lapsed Vegetarian.

Now you're all about give me the meat.

Yeah, big old team.

We got to go to Musso and Frank's, See.

Let's take down

a ribeye.

Something with a little fattiness to it.

What do you think, bud?

I would be down with that because, number one, it's about four blocks from where I live, so it's convenient.

I can get there easily and just be Schwawz.

By the way,

we're very fortunate to

have this man,

Connor Orr, as we welcome him to the show.

Connor,

you just barely seem to dodge an outright tragedy today.

You want to tell the audience about it?

Well, I guess still pending in terms of whether or not I successfully dodged it, but

the table that all my equipment is on fell over, and still on the back of it was the remaining nine smelling salts from an episode we did a couple weeks ago.

And then I walked out and then I came back in

to fix it, and I stepped on them about 15 minutes ago and activated nine ammonia packets that are,

it feels like I've been pepper sprayed and still haven't been able to take a deep breath.

So we'll see how this goes.

Here, I'm not even joking.

There's got to be

like two Tylenol is not going to hurt you.

It will help you if you have a headache or, you know, your elbows sore or whatever.

But 200 Tylenol can kill you.

I would think the same thing would apply with a smelling salt scenario.

So, Justin, I didn't say hi to Justin.

What's up, Gravy?

I just want you to keep an eye on Connor's pupils, if they remain.

Are they fixed and dilated at any point?

Like, let's just have 911 on speed dial in case there is a smelling salts overdose, which would be pretty high up there in the most pathetic ways to die.

On a podcast, especially.

On a podcast.

Sadly, Justin would be the first person I'd draft out of all of you to keep an eye on my medical condition, which says a lot about how I feel about everybody in here right now.

Fair, very fair.

All right.

We got a lot to get to today.

Fun.

Mailbag day.

Always fun to interface with the audience.

And we're going to do that.

Sometimes the mailbag, it's a bunch of duds.

Sometimes we get some really good questions.

We got enough good questions where,

Mark, we feel comfortable inviting the audience into the show in a more intimate way today.

There are times when they appear to be ham and eggers when it comes to creating content for the show, but that's not the case.

I think that they're, you know, as a good audience does, they're rounding into shape and they've they brought their fastball today.

Yeah, and a lot of positive buzz.

If you haven't checked it out, the fantasy extravaganza was a big hit, and I hope that you get positive positives out of that.

And I had a town friend,

he's a town friend.

He's a friend from the town that sent me like a 500-word text asking me, because he had begun,

he was listening to the podcast,

and he said, I'll read it to you because it really caught me off guard.

Hey, boss, started listening to your fantasy extravaganza episode and immediately felt inspired to dig deep with Gemini AI on a topic that I always think about this time of year.

What factors contribute to overall team health and reduced injury risks?

Which teams do the best in this area?

And what are the coach commonalities for these teams?

In my voice conversation with the AI tool on my commute to work this morning, I learned the following, all of which seems like common sense, I guess.

A specific group of teams had lower injury rates in recent seasons, including the Ravens, the Falcons, the Eagles, and a couple of others.

The teams with the

lowest injury rates prioritize player overall health throughout the season, leverage data and analytics to create highly individualized training plans focused on injury prevention and training optimization, and have head coaches that highly value and collaborate with their medical teams.

So for me, this is the question.

Are you ready for the question, Mark?

I, yes.

And no, you can never get those 45 seconds back.

How would a fantasy team do if all of the players were drafted from the teams with the lowest injury rates and strongest commitments to player health?

From my research, it appears that 30 to 40 percent of injuries are non-contact.

Even many of the 60 to 70 percent that are contact injuries could be reduced or prevented by better strength and conditioning.

I don't personally plan to explore this concept this season or review historical data to come up with an answer, but I do think it's a good question.

And if you find out the answer, please let me know.

Does this gentleman live near a dispensary?

He does.

He does, I believe.

So there's only, according to Google Gemini, five coaches who value their players being healthy.

I mean, this is the fing slop that just gets regurgitated in this garbage machine that is being used to lay off actual humans who can think for themselves.

It takes five minutes to go on pro football reference.

Like, we didn't need to evolve beyond this as a society.

We're good.

Yeah.

And if anyone's interested in my answer, I wrote, I believe the potential gains of drafting from the, quote, healthier teams would be mitigated and then some by taking from a much smaller player pool.

You know.

And yeah, don't do that.

Because these things tend to, the teams that are more injured one year, there seems to be some regression to the mean the following season.

And just don't get too caught up with that stuff.

You should have invited him for like a two and a half hour phone call to break it down further.

One-on-one too late.

Connor, how are you feeling?

Again, struggling to take a deep breath, which is kind of the one thing that

I'm going to keep coming back to.

I think that's my barometer for health is whenever I'm able to fully inhale.

So we'll see.

All right.

Whenever I'm able to fully inhale.

That is troubling.

Let's do some news.

Yeah, I think that,

you know, a lot of people don't know this, but, you know, my dad is my

right-hand man, and he didn't

even have running water until he was in high school.

So

there's definitely a lot of things that

and people that I could that I think I could certainly help

with this gift I've been blessed with.

you know I love people like

Tyson Bagent because

it's a badgent pagent

because here I am being you know I'm all ready to be a snarky

football podcaster and talk about wow a backup quarterback got a $10 million contract and a press conference must be a good gig for a guy that the team hopes never plays a snap.

But there it is.

There's the human side of football that we too often

forget about.

And so good for him and good for his family.

And I'm sure his father is very proud.

Undrafted free agent, which is an amazing story out of a D3 school and went 2-2 as a relief starter when Justin Fields got hurt, has looked...

incredible under Ben Johnson and I think has kind of been that consummate grinder.

And when new coaches come in, you want to reward the people who seem to play in harmony with what you're trying to preach.

And so I think this is something that kind of, you know, locks up all angles for them.

But I thought that if he didn't get re-signed by Chicago, that's a guy who could be a fringe competitive starter somewhere at some point.

He's been a good spot starter.

You're right.

And it tells me whenever like a new regime comes in, right, like a whole new coaching staff, and they're especially like an offensive-minded coach like Ben Johnson, and you're looking closely at your quarterbacks, like this is quick confirmation that they believe in him.

And, you know, it's like, I think in a way, I'm not saying like not to overdo where he's at in his career, but it's like kind of preventing him in a good way.

And he got the money and that helps from him escaping and going and helping a different team.

Like they, they really, it shows value to sign someone like this at this time in the season after all this evaluation.

So it is, I'm with you, Dan.

It's a huge victory.

And like to hear him, whenever you, we're all dads, whenever you could hear, imagine hearing your son speak about you in those terms.

Like it has tangible meaning.

We get to know him better.

And it's like, these are some of the better lights in a league filled with a lot of darkness.

Well said, Mark.

And I'm not going to make this a,

is Caleb Williams, you know, got to be worried about his job.

But clearly, clearly Ben Johnson, because he didn't, Ben Johnson didn't have anything to do with drafting Caleb Williams.

Neither Bajan.

He didn't draft him either.

He's been in the league a few years now, but clearly the backup has made an impression on the head coach.

And it's just something to the fact that he got this extension.

Just file it away.

If this Caleb Williams season starts going sideways, just think to yourself, yeah, and they also had a press conference for the backup when they gave him a $10 million extension.

That's all I'm saying.

All right.

In other news, some trades.

Okay, so we're getting closer to the final cutdown day for rosters, and teams are already kind of getting ahead of that and trying to, you know, they've now had a really good look at their rosters through training camp and

inter-squad scrimmages and preseason games, and they see where they need help.

So the Chiefs, for instance, okay, they had Sky Moore.

Where did they take Sky Moore?

Was he a second rounder?

Second-rounder?

Second-rounder one.

It never really clicked, obviously.

They move him to the 49ers, a team that because of injuries and suspensions and whatnot, they have depth issues at wide receiver right now.

So they move, they trade for more from Kansas City, a seventh,

more and a seventh to the Niners for a sixth-round pick.

DeMarcus Robinson of the Niners has been suspended three games to start the season for violating the NFL's substance abuse policy.

Brendan Ayuk is also working his way back from that really bad knee injury.

So they have some depth issues at wide receiver right now.

Debo Samuel is in Washington.

The Broncos trade a wide receiver.

Devon Vele

to the Saints for a fourth and a seventh.

That's pretty good value to get back

for Vele.

So that is another move.

And the Vikings trade defensive tackle, Harrison Phillips, and a seventh-round pick to the Jets for two sixth-rounders.

The Jets obviously see a major issue on their defensive line right now because they also went out and got Juwan Briggs from the Cleveland Browns, another DT,

for for a six-round pick.

So the Jets are looking to add some depth around

their star defensive lineman.

Your thoughts, Connor?

I like Harrison Phillips.

I think one of his strengths is as a defender, he's a great table setter, and he is good at understanding how other defensive tackles or edge rushers can play off of him.

And not to the point where I'm shocked that the Vikings got rid of him, but I think this could be one of those late-in-the-game acquisitions that actually has a tangible impact on the field, especially when you're talking about continuing to unlock someone like Quinn Williams, understanding what he does best.

And I mean, the Jets have already spent so much equity on the edge rushing position when Robert Sala was there.

So anything that you can do to get this thing going, I think is worthwhile.

And Phillips also has been an Ironman.

He had 51 straight starts for the Vikings.

And so I think if you're the Jets, you're trying to get guys that can be present because it is an area they could use help in.

I think on the Sky Moore thing real quick, like

any, all all these trades, these little trade flurry, we're calling it, like, these guys were going to get cut.

Like, Skymore was just going to get cut.

So, to get anything back, and it's one of the few

slip-ups by

the Chiefs when it comes to Brett Veach in the front office.

Like, they've been trying to solve the wide receiver thing for a while, but that a second-round pick that didn't work.

That doesn't hasn't happened to the Chiefs too often in this regime.

In other

news,

all NFL stadiums will be installing a dozen 4K cameras along the sidelines, goal lines, and back lines of end zones, giving officials additional angles for instant replay rulings.

Okay, thank God.

I mean, how's that not already the case?

What does this say?

What are we, an $18 billion

business now?

The NFL?

Non-profit, Connor.

It was just like some games, like one o'clock in whatever, in Virginia for a Commander's game three years ago was like technologically the same as like a rice football game.

And at some point, you had to upgrade this.

And nothing was more frustrating when they would zoom all the way in, and the announcer's like, ah, did he get it?

And then it looks like your mom trying to use an iPhone camera for the first time.

It's just like a bleary mess.

Like it looks like you're looking at it underwater.

Or it's like your Aunt Sheila using her iPad to take a photo.

I have an Aunt Sheila who's doing it.

Get it together, Sheila.

Yes.

Hey, leave Aunt Logie alone.

Go on, Connor.

No, but I think that anytime we've seen this has been an off-season of reinvestment into the product, which is nice from a technological aspect, which is something that the league was hands-off for for a long time.

It raised a lot of suspicions during the gambling boon.

And so I think this is a good thing.

Anything that can give us more clear-cut evidence or better ideas to ward off, you know, conspiracy theorists and all that kind of stuff.

And also for us, like who covered the game and mostly for the fans, but it's like it probably wipes out, or I hope it does, seven very annoying kind of bubbling up news stories during the season about officiating and calls and blown calls.

Like if we can get to the point where we're not spending a lot of our time on that, and you're right, Dan, it should have been a decade plus ago.

I don't know what we're doing here, but

I vastly approve of it, as if they're asking for my approval.

But I don't.

Yeah, certainly not.

But, you know, just like Rotopat said yesterday, you know, there's actually no good players.

You know, just there's nobody nobody that's good.

There are actually no good officials.

And no matter what they do to try to help them, we'll always have something to complain about.

I just, I feel

eternally confident.

And then if they do the thing like in baseball, for instance, where they're going to bring in the Robo-umps, then you're going to say, well, there's not enough human in the game and the officiating.

There's definitely a...

a needle to thread as the technology gets better and better.

Or maybe it's not.

Maybe really we've all been just working as a society and

in terms of technology to a point where if games are played, okay, I think I'm hitting on something here, Connor.

If games are played with set rules, specific rules that are

black and white,

if we can get technology to the point where they can do just that,

is that ultimately what the goal has been all along in terms of officiating?

To remove the human element entirely, and only then will sports be perfect as they were designed by man.

I don't think sports will ever be perfect, but I think that the human element was beautiful until it started costing people like Justin actual money.

And I think that's where we have to get to degenerates.

Yeah.

That's why

that's what necessitates this onslaught of more technology, more technology, because there's such a consequence behind it up, you know?

Yeah.

And to the point of the 4K and HD cameras, that created in some ways this crisis, right?

The technology making it so clear.

You know, Dan Marino on a QB sneak in 1986,

who knows what the f ⁇ is going on.

It's so blurry.

Your TV, you're using rabbit ears.

The screen is, you know, 18 inches.

Maybe it's black and white if you were Mark.

Like now you have a situation where People are sitting at home seeing these officials just in very clear right in front of them.

Look how bad you are at your job.

They're probably better than they were 30 years ago, but now we see the game is extremely difficult to officiate.

And they're human.

Not only that, but there are elements of an offense or a defense that are designed to...

obscure the official's view, to make it look like you're not doing something illegal when you are.

And whether that's like the kickback by an offensive lineman, whether that's a legal screen by a wide receiver, all this stuff is done and positioned sometimes in ways ways to make it so the official can't see them doing something wrong.

I mean, go back to the Nikkel Roby-Coleman pass interference a couple years ago against the Saints.

That to me was the tipping point of the realization that this game is unofficiable in its current state just by human eye.

It's just not.

It's too fast.

I mean, deeper question.

Why not just generate like a perfect AI coaching staff versus like, hey, we've got Zach Taylor out there?

Don't put that out there in the world, dude.

dude.

Don't put that out there.

Next guy sucks.

Yeah.

All right, let's see.

Quick injury rundown here.

The Bucs plan to activate wide receiver Chris Godwin off the pup list, and they will have him on the 53-man roster to start the season.

That's good news.

That makes it feel like the Bucs are confident he could return within, what, six weeks?

Inside what six weeks would be.

If you're on the pup list to start the season, you're on ice until then, at least.

Uh, but it still appears that he's not going to actually get into games until October.

Um,

who are we talking about in the fantasy extravaganza, Mark, to keep an eye on on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next alongside Mike Evans this fall?

Amika.

Sleeper.

Amika Abuka.

The Falcons, their offensive tackle, Storm Norton underwent ankle surgery on Tuesday.

He's expecting to miss six to eight weeks, according to a source.

That's not the only bad injury news for the Falcons.

Offensive tackle Caleb McGarry was carted off with a leg injury.

He's getting an MRI.

We'll find out about that.

Maybe you'll know about it by the time you hear this.

But that's a much bigger deal.

They are determining the severity of the injury as we record this, but it is expected per Jeremy Fowler of ESPN that he's going to miss some time.

Bills cornerback Tredavius White helped off the practice field after being carted into the locker room on Thursday.

So he is banged up.

And,

you know, White is a fan favorite who's back with the team,

but he's getting up there in age.

And finally, injury news that luckily is not injury news.

Lamar Jackson, remember the drama around Justin Fields earlier in the summer when he got stepped on and dislocated his toe?

Lamar got stepped on as well, and there was a little bit of nervous energy at Ravens camp for the two-time MVP, but he says he's fine, and he got an x-ray on it.

just to be sure.

So,

Mark, don't worry.

The Ravens are still in great shape.

I know what you're doing there.

You're trying to get me to go anti-Ravens.

I mean, you know, two of their last three seasons

were completely derailed by Lamar Jackson injuries.

Yeah.

This guy's healthy going into the season, right?

Come on.

What Lamar Jackson injury?

Last year?

Well, no, the previous two.

Before last year.

I said two of the last three seasons.

So not last year, but the previous two.

Oh, yes.

Understood.

Right.

And apologies.

Well, except.

Are we going to be having the conversation again?

Like, is Lamar still fast?

Is that happening again?

I'm not going to be having it.

Okay.

Good.

All right.

Let's take a break.

And when we get back, we'll hit the mailbag.

Is Lamar fast now?

Or is he slow now?

All right.

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All right, we're back.

This is a little bit alarming.

At the end of the last segment, you might have noticed that Connor Orr, who accidentally

stepped on or triggered multiple smelling salts in his recording area right before we started, out of nowhere, his entire signal dropped off, and there was no word from him.

This is a problem, Mark.

This is a concern.

You'd have to be concerned.

I know Justin's probably trying to reach out right now to find out if Connor is vertical or horizontal.

You can only imagine the environment that he's trying to broadcast from right now.

It's got to be toxic on the edge of apocalyptic.

I don't see Justin looking nervous.

I actually see Justin.

I don't know.

Do they still have monster.com?

He's on monster.com.

Hey, do you want to be the producer of the show because I'm the new talent?

I think it's like one of the

showgirls thing when Gina Gershon gets pushed down the stairs.

Have I seen Showgirls?

Maybe.

I mean, I have seen it myself.

You know, we're a show removed from Justin billing himself ahead of me

on the rundown, in the introduction of the show.

So I think that's apt.

Justin, did you show girls, Connor?

Were you responsible for the smelling salts scenario?

Hey, a promotion sounds nice.

Is this a promotion?

I don't even know if this counts as a promotion, but I do recognize I need to replace myself before I can move up.

So yeah, I'm hitting that job posting.

Maybe a hedonist out there will be interesting.

That was way too serious an answer.

It was like completely factual and intentional.

Yikes.

All right.

All right.

Let's hope Connor is okay and we move on with the show.

Before we get to the mailbag, actually,

let's talk about something here, Mark.

You're being put back to work.

You're on a retainer, obviously,

through the Cleveland Browns.

And the Browns are, they want to move into a new stadium.

It's going to be outside Cleveland city limits, and Cleveland doesn't like that.

And the city has been working with airport officials outside within the city limits.

They sent, quote, warning letters regarding the height of the new stadium.

According to

pro football talker Mike Florio via Today in Ohio,

the permit was rejected, the permit

for this new stadium because the stadium is 58 feet too tall.

The choices are to make it shorter or move it or move the stadium farther from the airport.

Here's a quote from

Layla Atassi.

It really kind of caught the Browns by surprise.

They seemed to be shocked.

The Browns have yet to respond, but they do have someone that will respond on their behalf.

Good afternoon, and thank you for holding.

I have Mark Sessler on the line from Quiet Storm Crisis Management.

We're patching Mark through right now.

You know, I appreciate the chance to respond to what the Cleveland Browns organization would call a glitch, a snag.

Okay, like we work arm in arm with the Ohio Department of Transportation.

This is to say that the Cleveland Browns organization was surprised by this is erroneous.

I'm not surprised.

That's how the reporting comes out in some of these situations, just something you deal with.

Let's be honest, we have proposed a very valuable option, and that would be that nobody flies in and out of Cleveland anymore, that no one boards an airplane from the city or to the city.

That's something we're exploring.

We're looking into that because this stadium will be built.

Brook Park is a majestic concept.

And I would just say from the entire Cleveland Browns organization, like this, this hasn't shaken us a bit.

We simply move forward.

Unbelievable.

I mean, this guy...

Connor's back.

Connor, how you doing?

How you feeling?

I'm alive.

Medically, I'm running my computer off of a cell phone.

Everything went completely dark in my house momentarily.

So just kind of trying to figure that out.

We were wondering if Justin was secretly trying to like forensic files, showgirls you

to take your spot on the show after he appeared on the Monday morning quarterback podcast as a surprise guest.

Like now, maybe it's a little bit of a land grab.

You know, if that's what he wants to do,

I'm all for it because we've all been there.

We've all had that hunger for power.

And he's a young man about to enter a new stage in his life.

And if knocking me out and purposely breaking ammonia packets in my house helps get him there, good for him.

Jesus, he's a monster.

All right, let's get to it.

Let's hit the mailbag.

All right.

First question.

Let it rip.

Gravy.

Chris Western asks,

who would be your Dalton line for head coaches?

Same criteria as Dalton line for QBs.

If your head coach is above the line, you're in good hands.

If they're below, they'll be high in the hot butt rankings.

By the way, the hot butt rankings will return, as I know you knew they would.

A week from Monday, you're going to get that little Labor Day special with James Palmer.

We can't wait for that.

I put a lot of thought into this, and I have the official Dalton line coach rankings, and I'd like you guys to chime in with your thoughts.

So let's do it.

All right, Justin, let's start with the guys that are not in this conversation.

All right, so the wait and see tier, not up for debate.

They're all first-time coaches.

Ben Johnson, Brian Schottenheimer, Liam Cohen, Kellen Moore, Aaron Glenn.

Okay, so those guys are out.

Now, the next tier, now we get into the real, the real nitty-gritty.

Now, these are the guys that truly matter.

Yes, the guys who truly matter tier.

Now, we talk about, it comes up on the show about there's only a handful of guys that are really cultured difference makers.

So this is my list.

It's not the list, but it's a list, and I believe in it.

Andy Reid, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Sean Payton, Dan Campbell, Jim Harbaugh, John Harbaugh.

Okay.

Anybody have?

Let's pause there.

Let's pause there.

Okay.

I would be willing.

It may be a year away of like proof of concept, but I feel like Kevin o'connell kind of fits into this world where he's changed that team we think about them differently um he's sort of a quarterback guru guy so i'd consider him okay i agree that he's a year i think he's a year away but i think he's in fact he is in uh the next tier these are the guys who teams are either

You know, we feel good to great about our guy.

Okay.

And that tier for me is Matt LaFleur, Mike Tomlin, Kevin O'Connell, Sean McDermott, D'Amiko Ryans, Pete Carroll, Mike Vrabel, Dan Quinn, Kevin Stefansky, okay?

That is

another tier.

Now, here's another tier, guys.

This is the guys that are the other guys.

These are the guys to me that are on the other side of this, and that would be Todd Bowles, Zach Taylor, Shane Steichen, Mike McDonald, Mike McDaniel, Raheem Morris, Dave Canales, Brian Dable, Jonathan Gannon, Brian Callahan, Which leaves one coach who I believe is the prime meridian

of head coaches,

none other than...

Drumroll, please.

Yes.

Snitch Siriani.

You get it.

And it was an easy one.

The Philadelphia Eagles head coach.

What is the prime meridian?

What is the Dalton line?

The Siriani line.

He is neither a solution or necessarily a problem.

His success is completely based on what's around him.

In the 2024 season, incredibly talented roster.

Great offensive and defensive coaching around him.

And as a result, the Eagles and Siriani went all the way to the top of the football world.

You saw

the year before, what happened the last six weeks of the season, what happens when everything crumbles around him?

They went to the very bottom and they were an absolute disaster.

Siriani Siriani is the prime meridian of head coaches.

The Siriani line, baby.

Bring it on.

What do you got, Philadelphia?

Thoughts?

Does anybody agree, by the way?

No.

I assume everyone else agrees, but like I absolutely don't agree.

I think I've never been more sure of a take in the history of this program.

Oh, my God.

He is absolutely that guy.

It is tough when it's unclear if it's a bit or not.

This is not a bit at all for the reasons I just stated.

This is a man who is completely

at the mercy of what's been built around him.

Completely at the mercy.

And that's one more Super Bowl.

He's been to and won more Super Bowls than half the people above him.

Doesn't matter.

That's not what it's about.

It's not about counting Super Bowls.

That would be a different list.

I don't agree.

I'm glad I didn't say anything because after the first tier, I was like, oh, interesting.

Like he didn't put Nick Siriani there.

And then after the second tier, I was like, okay,

Nick Siriani's still not here.

I guess we're building towards something.

I think that you...

It all depends on what you want to see and the value that you place in the interpersonal.

And I think that this guy is more of a behind-the-scenes person.

I think he's graduated.

He's a pretty good CEO.

And

he wins.

I don't understand how we didn't just airmail Zach Taylor into

Zach Taylor was the person I wrote

on my sheet.

He's still

with the Bengals, like at all.

It just feels right.

It's comfortable.

I have him on the wrong side of the line.

Yeah.

But isn't it like perfect marriage between the Andy Dalton line and exactly how we feel about Zach Taylor?

We even mentioned earlier on the show, it's like

because it's the same team, I agree, but actually the answer is Nick Siriani of the Philadelphia Eagles.

Well, we're not going to get beyond this

conversation, but I think the two of the people here strongly feel differently than you.

I'm sorry, but you can't have a person who, like, and I understand that Super Bowls are on a different list, but if you were an absolute Jamoke, you could not make it to two Super Bowls in three seasons.

You just can't.

You have to have some form of emotional.

Okay, Nathan.

Here's making my point for me.

In both of those seasons, he had stud rosters and great coordinators.

The one season in between when he.

Who he hired?

Well, I mean, not on his own.

I think Howie Roseman.

Now, Howie Roseman, if we were having a GM conversation about the Dalton line, now we're talking, now we're cooking.

Eagles fans won't be mad at me because I'd have him at the very top, perhaps.

Acid test.

Let's say that Nick Siriani,

for his run during the Eagles coach

scenario, wore the Jets head coach, and the Jets were coming off a Super Bowl.

Here's another trope.

Here's another one.

No, it's not a trope because would you ever even consider this?

Would not even be considered if the Jets had just wanted to see the best.

Is Vic Fangio his defensive coordinator on the Jets?

Vic Fangio.

Does he have the roster that the Eagles have?

It's duplicative.

It has nothing to do, it has nothing to do with the Jets.

It has nothing to do with anything else other than would I see the value of Nick Siriani as a head coach?

It's irrelevant.

It is very relevant.

Can I make make one more quick rebuttal?

Yeah.

All right.

I mean, that's what the show is for.

I want you guys to talk, not just be like, I disagree.

Vic Sfangio has had really bad seasons as a coordinator, including the one in Miami right before he came to Philadelphia.

And you could argue that he was checked out and he didn't want to be there.

And being in Philadelphia puts him closer to his family.

Whatever.

DC Dalton line, let's go.

But

the other part of this is that both of these runs that Philadelphia made to the Super Bowl under Nick Siriani included weathering one of the most difficult markets in all of professional sports, probably the most difficult market in the NFL, which is I'm the head coach.

And B, especially this past season, involved asking a lot of established stars to do grunt work consistently over a long period of time.

That means A.J.

Brown, one of the most mercurial players in the NFL, going, hey, pal, we're going to cut your targets in half and you're going to block for a majority of the end of the season.

That is a conversation that a head coach has with a player and gets his ass on board.

That is something I mean the guy that was reading a book on a side on the sideline performatively?

But it didn't matter because it didn't matter because Nick buried it and that's something that a head coach does.

He takes care of the body.

I don't think that's what happened exactly.

I think there was a freight train.

The Eagles had an unbelievable defense on an all-time heater that lifted all tides.

And Jalen Hurts and the offense balled out down the the stretch in the playoffs.

But I don't think it's like Nick Siriani diffused the

A.J.

Brown situation so much as the other factors around it allowed it to go to the background.

That could have easily spun out of control.

I get what you're saying on that side of it, but I don't think Siriani caused it.

In fact, I think Siriani, the fact that the book was out in the first place is something that

leads me to believe that a mutiny could always be around the corner with this team.

Do you not give him credit for the disaster scenario, the way that two

last seat two seasons ago ended and the fact that he survived that brought the team back together

i have him on the i have him on the other side of the others list one of the most senior players went on to wip and said that the players didn't like each other midway through the season and he fixed the problem that's exactly what a head coach needs one way to look at it

that's one way to look at it where would you have him?

Where would you have Nick Siriani?

How about that?

I would have him, I would extend that first list to an extra person and put him on there.

Okay.

At least in the Kevin O'Connell tier.

Absolutely.

Like in the second tier, high up on it.

He almost made it.

It's just one spot away from that tier.

Maybe if he does it again this year.

We'll see.

How good does this guy have to get to make you love him?

How good?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I guess we'll see.

See, that's what's so fun about it.

We get to see what happens in 2025 now.

All right, next question.

Where do we go from here?

Lee Gardner asks, as Mark has cursed the Packers after placing them high in the power rankings, check out their injury list, by the way.

Thanks, Mark.

Uh-oh.

Do you think LaFleur would be on the hot seat if they fail to make the playoffs?

No.

No.

LaFleur has been one of the most successful head coaches around,

and and it depends on how they fail.

If they fail because of injuries,

I don't think it's a make-or-break year for Matt LaFleur on any level.

That's my take.

I don't know, like, go find someone better.

13-3.

I don't think the wheels would have to really fall off.

13-3, 13-3, 13-4, 8-9, 9-8, and 11-6.

No.

Yeah, I don't think you're going to see a lot of hand-wringing from Heed the Call when we do the hot butts episode around LaFleur.

All right, what's next?

But I understand Packers fans being concerned about the whammy.

I get that.

I think that was more the worry here.

I can't escape all that

noise, but I don't have that power.

I don't know how to explain that to people.

This is

babied coddled Midwesterners who just absolutely don't know what it means to be a fan.

Joe Kirsch asks, hey, Miark, I have jury duty on the same day as my fantasy draft.

Oh, no.

Can you give me an excuse to get out of it?

Go ahead, Mark.

Help me.

Having been to, well, number one,

this is an alarming parallel because this morning I received a notice that I have been called to jury duty at literally the worst time of the year for that to happen.

But having been to it before,

the people that got out of it, you've got to cite

intense, like I'm a single earner and I've got multiple children and it's impossible for me to be out of work.

You can cite,

I would say, whatever the case is, if you have any idea what the case is, heavy prejudice against one of the sides.

Like they're just trying to weed you out.

They want someone that has no concept of what happened here or has no interest.

So it's like, go in hot with

time issues

are not available.

And also, the case itself is deeply personal to you.

You're out of there.

Good answer.

Well said.

All right, next.

That's how you do it.

Seb Busser asks, Russell Wilson once had his own signature Subway sandwich called the Danger Witch.

Remember that?

It is my signature sandwich.

It's called the Danger Witch.

And it's dangerously good.

Be careful, though.

It's spicy.

Is there a name for the sandwich Justin tends to graze on during podcasts?

Yeah, Justin, that's a good question.

Do you have,

as I recall the iconic, as you watch a replay of it, slow-motion replay of the bite heard around the world?

It was a turkey sandwich.

It was like a deli turkey with egg white on it.

Is that correct?

Yeah, it was an actually

deli-sliced rotisserie chicken with chopped-up hard-boiled eggs on top.

And in this household, we call it the gravy witch.

I'm just proud of that, so I don't know if that's any good.

I mean, I have some names.

How about the distracto?

The open-faced unprofessional.

The hey, why doesn't my keyboard work anymore?

Witch.

It's a big deal.

How about the video in it?

How about the high as F witch?

All right, next.

All right.

This is from Sariel Lina do Ecuador.

How does one stay invested in their team, at least for the season, when they are in a Daniel Jones-esque QB situation?

Yes, I'm a Colts fan.

Connor, I'll start with you on this one.

I mean, okay, then don't.

Like, don't watch professional football because you're not getting what you want.

I don't understand, but I think that Daniel, you get into it.

You don't ask any more of a team than they could have done over the course of an offseason, and you just invest and you force yourself to like something, even if it's not exactly suiting your needs.

I feel like that's life.

So that's what I would say.

I very much agree with that.

This is a personal choice.

This is your time.

You could use Sundays to take like 14-mile-long hikes and swim across a lake and completely change like your physical body.

Like there was a season or two.

I'm not saying I did that, but like I just kind of ghosted on the Browns a long time ago and just did other things with those Sundays and would come back and like fast forward through Sunday ticket and watch them lose like 41 to nothing.

It was like, they were much better days.

So it's like, I would say you be involved or don't, but it's not, it's not, it's, if they don't satisfy you, there are, life is rich and wide.

There are other things one can do to grow and experience.

Yeah, that's.

That's definitely fair to look at it that way.

That's coming from a football podcast.

So good job.

Yeah, I would say like maybe another way.

I think the question also is kind of like, can I enjoy the season?

Yeah, even if it's not going your way because the quarterback's killing you, there are ways,

you know, by studying other aspects of the team.

Like, yeah, I'll use like the Jets as an example.

Like, Justin Fields, I don't have high hopes for him this year, but what I would like to see is a culture being set by the new head coach.

And is the team playing hard?

Is there accountability when mistakes are made?

Are they being penalized less?

Is the offensive line cohesive and then the running game is doing something?

Garrett Wilson is getting the ball and

is sauce bouncing back after a down year

in the secondary.

Quarterback is where everyone's eyes will always lock in, but there's other ways to track growth and progress.

And then hopefully in the next season, your team successfully addresses the quarterback problem.

Isn't there also an entire rest of the league to be invested in if you care about the sport?

Like, I'm not trying to counter my point from before, but like, you kind of love watching football or you don't.

I mean, that's how we've survived, Mark, for the better part of the entire time we've done this podcast.

There's been nothing to root for for the most part,

personally.

Up next, George asks:

what would make Travis Hunter's draft price worth it this season for the Jags?

Now, the Jags famously traded up with the Cleveland Browns.

They shipped it.

Let me just, this is important because

they sent the 2025 number five overall pick, the 36th pick in the second round, a fourth round pick, and another first round pick in 2026 to Cleveland for the right to move up to that spot and grab him, leading, of course, to the boy genius, James Gladstone, to say

glowing things about

this young man, Travis Hunter.

Let's check that out.

There are players who have the capacity to alter a game.

There are players who have the capacity to alter the trajectory of a team.

There are very few players who have the capacity to alter the trajectory of the sport itself.

Travis, while he has a lot to still earn, in our eyes, has the potential to do just that.

Connor, I know this Gladstone got on your radar a little bit, so I'm going to have you.

And it's always good to listen to that again

because

I, you know,

all kidding aside, I think Gladstone, that was his first example of maybe a rookie mistake.

Here's a young, idealistic,

optimistic general manager who, in a press conference that could have been pretty block and tackle, kind of added to the hype and expectations around this two-way player.

And that could come back to haunt him, obviously, but he's that confident.

He's that,

he believes that much in this player.

What would be success to you, Connor?

I mean, if he threw for 28 touchdowns,

right?

But he's not a quarterback.

And so I think to me, you have to have as good of a year as the wide receiver that you drafted in the first round, the year prior.

Plus, you have to be like a great situational third down defender.

You have to be a legitimate piece that breaks up passes, that intercepts passes.

You have to make me believe that this is anything other than a marketing ploy by a team that had no definable star because the quarterback that they had hinged all their hopes on is kind of mediocre to this point.

Anything, Mark?

I think Travis Hunter is going to be electrifying.

And I think it comes down to the way that a lot of people will process football in general, which is highlight plays on both sides of the ball.

I think the unusual nature of the fact that outside of like

one or two guys, we just haven't seen nfl players thrive um at multi-positions it's it's incredibly hard to do so fulfill that i think also part and parcel with that is liam cohen has to find a way to use him the right way um to coach him the right way if he if he helps a bunch of people win their fantasy leagues as like a flex who does all sorts of crazy stuff like all of this

like rises the tide in his favor.

He's still a rookie,

but even some of the stuff coming coming out of Jaguar's practices, he's very special.

And I just kind of think that go be that special, unique player that no one else in the league is doing what he's doing.

You stand out.

It's a success.

All right.

Up next, let's check in with

Austin

Wang Bailey, who has this to ask.

Connor has convinced me to forsake sports gambling.

Wow, look at that, Connor.

You're making a difference.

But I still miss the thrill.

How would you guys recommend wasting my disposable income?

Austin Wang Bailey.

So

we're in a melting pot, folks.

Some of these questions,

like

some of these questions are like, what do I do now that like, go pursue a woman or a man that you're interested in?

Go climb a, you know, go climb a mountain.

Go.

Are we just going to give that answer every time?

Well,

here's the thing.

Because I don't see, are any of us doing the things that we're saying like go explore the wilderness climb to the top well no because we're watching with the dolphins

okay all right all right all right do you do you want a tangible you want to take is anyone swimming with the dolphins raise your hand take that money take the money that you would you would have used to gamble and put it away in a high interest yield savings account and over time you use that money to go back to school take notes to school you get an internship with an nfl team and then you become a general manager and you just enjoy being the general manager of an NFL football team.

That's what you should do.

And that's Joey Class.

That changes the future for Wang Billy.

I mean, like, I think that that would change everything for him.

Up next.

These people have wives that they talk to or husbands or I don't know.

We don't know.

DW, Crick Howell asks, a quote, you can change one thing about the NFL idea, the Gary Cooper rule.

Whatever happened to Gary Cooper?

That's what Tony Soprano once famously asked.

QBs have to call their own plays, no radios or signals.

Game plan is normal, but on Sunday, the QB calls it, like United Stabler, and Bradshaw and Joe Namath in Super Bowl III, called the entire game from the line of scrimmage against Hank.

The NFL is too complicated for its own good.

What say you?

I'll say this.

Let's take it a step further.

Maybe it's like one week every season.

It's like the throwback week.

Leather helmets,

uprights on the goal line, no water breaks, cigarette smoking permitted on the sideline.

The entire crowd, the entire audience of the stadium,

only men wearing suits and fedoras and doing that thing where they have the newspaper that they bang with their hand and then they do the whistle thing with their mouth.

That thing, that type of fanplay to celebrate successful moments in the game.

Let's just turn it all the way back.

Let's crank it.

That is,

that's an incredible idea.

Visually, spiritually,

from a national standpoint.

I would love to see it.

I think the crowd has to show up looking like people from that era.

I will say one quick thing.

There was a preseason game when Bruce Arians unleashed Big Ben for like two drives, if I recall, like when they played their starters, and just had Big Ben call his own plays non-stop, and he mauled them.

Like, it was fascinating to watch.

So, I kind of missed those.

I wasn't around for those days of

Brad Show.

I know you think that's not true, but like I missed those days.

Counterpoint, we just finished one of the greatest seasons in NFL history in terms of designer play calling.

We saw some of the coolest MFing plays ever run in the modern history of our league.

Fake trips and what is it, laterals, and hooking ladders and all that stuff.

And a quarterback is probably not going to do that.

In fact, what it would probably look like, because Peyton Manning basically ran his own offense during the Tony Dungy years with the Colts, right?

It's going to look incredibly grinded out and just like, I see a little mismatch here, and I'm going to throw it for five yards at a time, and it's going to be incredibly boring.

We're in the golden era of play callers.

We need to enjoy it.

Yeah, you don't put,

you know, you don't put Ben Johnson in mothballs, but maybe one week here.

One week.

Yeah.

Up next, a fan with no name.

Well, the fan has no name.

Dan was clearly a fan of weapons.

Ah, what a film that weapons was with Josh Brolin and

the woman from that Ozark show.

You know, the one, the one that went, what's the meme?

If you're going to stop me, you're going to have to fing

her.

I love that.

Anyway, Dan was clearly a fan of weapons.

Who isn't?

Any other flick recommendations from the group as we go the last two weekends without regular season NFL ball?

Connie or Conman?

Are we,

does it have to be a current film?

Because this seems like he can't.

I think so.

It cannot be.

I don't think so either.

What's lighting you up?

Well, I mean, I know this is subject to a lot of debate internally and on the show, but I thought.

Nick Siriani as the prime meridian of the NFL head coaches level debate?

It's only now that it's it's starting to settle in like, oh no, that's the only thing people are going to talk about this episode.

I'm going to catch a major amount of shit.

But I don't care.

Bring it on.

All right, go ahead.

You deserve it.

I mean,

my last theater experience was Superman.

It was transformative.

We've spoken about it.

My wife and I just finished Hunting Wives, which was also very fun and enjoyable.

So I see.

I would play in that arena.

I will give you a a couple quick ones.

I saw the Grateful Dead movie, which I think was on a limited run nationwide.

It was one of the top three

in-theater experiences I've ever had.

Like, it was just incredible.

And there aren't any movies made.

It's a documentary, and it doesn't try to get too cute.

It's incredible.

I'm not pitching our own show that I have with Jason Zumwalt, but the actual movie, Rolling Thunder,

which has

a young Tommy Lee Jones in it.

William Devane, who older people would remember from tons of TV.

Paul Schrader wrote it.

It is a gritty post-Vietnam Return to America story, and it's one of Tarantino's top 10 films, top five films.

The last one I'll suggest, and it's probably not for the entire family, but Russmeyer made a film that I saw in the theater with the cast like 50 years after it came out called Faster Pussycat Kill Kill.

And it is a wild black and white ride with a lot to enjoy i'll leave it there very nice i absolutely

yes justin i was just gonna give a couple quick ones

you know you go on the si podcast one time we'd love to hear it go ahead justin

um jessica and i just finished watching a new netflix show last night called building the band highly recommend chills every moment it's so good these are there's so many talented people in this world, and this is a great showcase for them.

And then, have you guys watched any of the Jerry Jones documentary yet?

I haven't been meaning to start it.

Some of it haven't got to it yet, but the timing is like a little bit of a terrible thing.

It's a little tricky.

I wish they wouldn't have dropped it at this time of the year, but I guess they also had the quarterback season two, which would have clashed if they...

I understand why Netflix did it.

Why am I talking about the Netflix rollout schedule?

No one cares.

But yes, you've enjoyed it?

No, I haven't started it yet, but I've been meaning to get to it.

And it just seems like a good way to kill two weeks while we wait for football because it's football-related.

So you're suggesting movies that you intend to see down the road.

Right.

That's exactly what we were, what the question was, but

asking if any of you guys have started it yet.

No, not yet.

Not yet.

But I might.

It's just the timing's off.

And I've also heard some mixed things about it, I must say.

What do we not what have we not learned about this man?

And what has he not already said about himself that isn't just going to be rehashed in any way, shape, or form?

Like, why are we doing this?

He hasn't been to a Super Bowl in 30 years.

Like, I think that's why we're doing it because it's a little brand maintenance when you don't actually have the, you know, the pelts on the wall to keep the brand living, you know, and thriving.

I have heard from some like football people that I think watch a lot of different type of stuff that it was pretty mesmerizing.

Or I think it's just a,

it's just kind of a time machine back to a different part of football, too.

Yeah, I don't want to be morbid about it or anything, but maybe it's something that I put to the side until Jara's not around anymore.

And it's like, it's, you know, let's remember the guy.

Right now, I just don't, I don't have it.

I don't have the time right now for it.

I absolutely adored the Naked Gun reboot.

That was great.

It made me think how much responsibility

is in the hands of filmmakers who adopt or adapt beloved IP from the past.

Me and my cousins grew up watching that first Naked Gun, Leslie Nielsen, probably the movie I've seen more than any other movie.

And it shaped a lot of things about my sense of humor and other things that I sought out.

Not that I'm only into spoof things, but the level of comedy in those Naked Gun movies with Leslie Nielsen is still at a high level,

even 40 years later.

But we're putting our trust in these people when they adopt these type of films that mean a lot to a lot of different people.

So it was Akiva Schaefer, who is actually one of the Lonely Island guys, and I love the Lonely Island guys as well.

But as I walked out of the theater, I was thinking how

what they were able to do with that movie, and it's Liam Neeson in the Leslie Nielsen role, and Pam Anderson in the Priscilla Presley role.

They got everything right that like Sandler I thought got wrong with Happy Gilmore 2, which was another beloved for people of a certain age comedy.

The Naked Gun movie didn't insult the intelligence of the audience or run back a bunch of one-liners.

And it wasn't just like a nostalgia grab, which you see so much with these type of movies and what you saw with Happy Gilmore 2.

In my opinion, it succeeded on a higher level, which is that made me realize how much I miss going to a movie theater and laughing like an idiot with a bunch of strangers.

It's the same thing in a different world world where I'm so excited.

I'm going to go see that Oasis tour in New York next week and getting together with friends.

And that's been hugely successful over in the UK because people are, it's not just like a nostalgic like exercise.

People are like, it's actually reminding them why they love that band and the idea of loving music and the communal aspect of it.

So like, yeah, I mean, that, that shit's important.

And laughing in a movie theater is important.

When I saw weapons being being scared as shit in a movie theater with other strangers is important like i let i let out an embarrassing yelp at one point in weapons where my wife was hiding in her sweater and i'm next to her and there's a there's this like horrifying a jump scare when i don't want to give it away if you haven't seen it but like a tilt up of the camera and i went oh and i was like that was embarrassing

but it was cool it was i felt because everyone else we were all feeling that together.

So

success.

Good job, Naked Gun.

I totally agree with that.

I think, like, one thing about Naked Gun, it's like there's no, the writing is so crisp.

There's not a like a wasted scene in there.

But we live in LA and the theaters, it depends where you go, but there's some movies you go to and there's eight people in there.

And I miss that too.

I really do.

The packed things, I feel like it's like Tom Cruises, the Brad Pitts that are trying to save the theater experience.

But Naked Gun has the kind of chance to be a dark horse type of film that does the same thing.

And we've got to jumpstart this thing again, so I'm with you.

Yeah, it's not a big hit, but it didn't bomb either.

But I think it will be, to your point, I think we'll have a cult following.

All right, two more.

This is from Joe Flacco Fu Manchu.

Wow.

So somebody that's a Flacco fan.

If Joe Flacco leads the Browns, Joe Flacco, of course, announced this week as the QB1

for the Brownies.

If he leads the Browns to the playoffs again at age 40, does that put him in serious consideration for the Hall of Fame?

Okay, my answer to that is no, but let me take it one step further.

And Connor, you are a lapsed Browns fan.

Mark, you are, you know, you struggle with it, but you are a Browns fan.

But if Joe Flacco

led the Browns to the Super Bowl, I don't even know if he needs to win, but if he took him to the Super Bowl, I looked up Joe Flacco's counting stats, and

you'd be really surprised where he lands on some of these lists right now.

So, let's say if the Browns, and it's not going to happen, obviously, the Browns stink.

But if the Cleveland Browns had a magic carpet ride and went to the Super Bowl and won it, that would be two Super Bowl titles for Joe Flacco.

Let's say he wins the MVP again.

That was the first Super Bowl Mark you and I were at.

Remember, we were on the field with him after the game when they gave him a Corvette,

which was just a wild scene.

But did you know that Joe Flacco is 18th in NFL history in passing yards?

just behind Russell Wilson, ahead of Dan Fouts.

That's interesting.

And then let's go to

touchdowns, passing touchdowns, Joe Flacco, all time.

Joe Flacco is

22nd all-time with 257 touchdowns.

If he has a nice year, he throws 30 touchdowns.

He's about 287 or so, and he's got two chips or one chip and taking Cleveland to their first Super Bowl ever.

I think he actually is in the conversation.

So I love that question.

What do you guys think?

If you, part of it is there's voters involved, right?

And if a 40-year-old Joe Flacco

tugged a team that the Browns are being looked at as the worst team in football right now, almost universally, and also a rebuilding team that is almost just about to ghost the season, if he took the Cleveland Browns after all of this horror show decades long and won a Super Bowl?

Yes,

he is a two-time Super Bowl winner who played like, like, what if Vinny Testa Verdi had won two Super Bowls?

Like, you'd have to start to think about these guys differently.

Like, Super Bowls matter, but taking the Browns and winning one, like, the question here is playoffs.

I'd say no to that.

Super Bowl, yes.

I thought that was one of, when I did that story on Russell Wilson a couple of weeks ago, I thought that was one of my favorite parts was reading some of the people who are actually Hall of Fame voters talking about Russell's candidacy and how on the fence he is and how it used to be kind of if you were a quarterback, you won the Super Bowl, except if you were Trent Dilfer, it pushed you over the edge and that's what got you across the threshold.

Russell seems to need at least a couple more good seasons, but I think Flacco is right in that boat, right?

Where we forget that he led them to a Super Bowl with Aquan Bolden as his number one wide receiver was really an instrumental part of that ride and has really reinvented himself on the back end of his career.

So I don't know.

As much as Bruce Arians tried to build a candidacy for Carson Palmer, who I think is in a similar position without the Super Bowl credentials, I think that there's an interesting conversation to be had about Joe Flacco.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's see what happens.

Maybe he'll do it.

That would be one of the greatest stories in NFL history if he took the Browns'.

Right.

He won't do it.

That would resonate in a way that would, yeah,

put him in a different stratosphere.

All right, last question.

Blair W.

Carrigan asks, is this current training camp version of Soft Knox

the death knell of this once cutting-edge franchise?

I've been thinking about that.

And I don't want to just like bury Hard Knox because we've already criticized it this bills season.

But I do think it made me wonder now that they're three episodes in and there's just no conversation about it.

It's not generating the buzz that the show used to.

And I'll say that I was a little too close to it for a long time because I covered it for the NFL and did a podcast on it and wrote up every episode and everything.

But so I don't know if I'm the best judge for how much buzz it's had the last 10 years, but at the same time, there is an absolute change in addition to all the other programming that NFL installed around hard knocks, including more hard knocks, in-season hard knocks and all that stuff, but shows like quarterback and even the Jerry Jones stock.

I haven't seen it yet, but maybe that's similar as well.

I don't know.

But like, there's too much of the hard knocks style.

But I think the biggest problem is that hard knocks has been sanitized.

It's been turned into an NFL product that's designed to make you excited for football, but in a different way.

It's more like, look how amazing the NFL is.

Can't you?

It's so exciting to see if this team, the Bills, is going to finally get to the Super Bowl.

Whereas the show and its best showed like the grime and the dirt under the fingernails of the NFL and what it was like to be in a battle for your life for a roster spot and how the show was fearless in showing the human side of it.

You actually had cameras in there with the GMs and the coaches when they were telling men that their dreams were over, which was no longer part of the show.

So when you take away the major hook

in terms of the narrative of life and death and the hard knocks of professional football, what were you left with?

And then even things like, as I brought up with the Cleveland Browns season, where like you saw

the internal strife within that coaching staff,

even that, I feel like they make sure that there's nothing in these episodes that is going to make you feel anything untoward about the teams or players.

And to me, that's the end of the show when that has happened.

Now, does it still look amazing?

Yes.

Is it produced as well as any show has ever been produced?

Is it a kind of an easy watch?

Yes.

All those things are true.

But like, think back to the first season, Connor, when you had Tony Saragusa and Shannon Sharp just being monsters to the teammates.

And it's like, oh, I can relate to that.

Like, this was like what it was like to have bullies when you were growing up and how they were in control and like finding your spot around individuals like that.

It's just none of that is there anymore.

And I think the thing they need to do is go away for a while and hard knocks going away for a couple of years or five years or 10 years and either dreaming it up again or making us like miss it because now I think it's in a different place where people just take it for granted or there are people like us who've watched a lot of seasons and just don't see it as the same thing it once was.

I think that I don't think it's going away.

I think it's more like DC passing on

their rights to someone else, right?

And allowing someone else like James Gunn to direct it and to reimagine it.

Like one of the coolest experiences I ever had in my life was I was in an NFL locker room and I turned around and someone tapped me on the shoulder and they said,

I want you to meet Gay Tales.

And if anyone here knows anything about writing, Gay Tales is one of the most famous magazine writers of all time.

He wrote Frank Sinatra has a cold.

He's written all these books.

Like he's a genius.

And he's always dressed to the nines in like a suit and like a fedora.

And so he just came to a Jets game once in 2011 for no damn reason.

And he's just walking around the locker room and talking to these players and making these observations that I would never have thought to make in any year of my NFL career.

And he comes back and he starts talking about, hey, did you know that Isaiah Trufant, did you know this about his mom?

And did you know this about where he came from?

And sometimes I think all it takes, and it was Isaiah Trufant.

I never forget this.

Sometimes all it takes is a different imagination.

And I think it's like an artist that wants to dig into the pain, the personality, the things that we've kind of shied away from, the things that make the show hurt to us a little bit.

And so I would encourage them to make that James Gunn move and to go out and find just another face of the franchise, you know?

That's perfectly said.

And wow, that you met him, number one.

I think it's fighting a battle that so much of NFL content is in general.

There is incredible saturation right now.

I mean, we see it.

Instead of hard knocks being the thing that you can watch with your wife, your girlfriend, your kids, minus some of the F-bombs, and you go on like a four or five-week journey that makes you kind of fall in love with the team that they're covering.

It just feels like I don't even know if I have time for it right now with all the other stuff.

There's like eight other NFL docuseries going on.

And I think the NFL has become so big and so successful that the Netflix and the other companies of the world are just latching on to it.

And Hard Knox just simply found a way.

And it's, I'm not trying to rip on NFL films or anything either, but it all found itself down a path where it's not special, it doesn't stand out.

And it's also like the 14th time we've watched a show that, frankly, for me, a little bit, like the writing, the narration, the Lee Schreiber part of it, I like him, but it's just that you can see what is coming in every single Hard Knocks episode from 20 miles away.

And that's simply just not dramatic, conflict-ridden, good, gritty television.

Like, there's too much stuff out there that's incredibly wonderful, and Hard Knocks does not stand out right now.

Go back to your roots, but I don't know if you can because the NFL is so much different now than it was.

I agree.

I don't think there's going back to you.

Not just 25 years ago when the show started.

10 years ago, the NFL is a different beast than it was.

All right, that's it.

Thank you to everybody for their questions.

Thank you for your support,

Hedonists.

We have big news to announce in the very near future about the state of the show, and it's in a very healthy place.

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Before we sign off, Connor, how do you feel after the smelling salts incident?

I've started being able to take some deep breaths, but this room smells like absolute shit.

You know what?

Pop a window, get the hell out of there, and have a friend or family member check on your vitals, okay?

Because we care about you.

All right.

Till next week, do what you must.

Heed the call.

Nationwide is so much more than a great insurance company.

They're one of America's largest financial services companies.

Like, how am I more than Saquon Barkley, the NFL's reigning leading rusher?

I'm also the NFL's leading husher.

Hush up back there.

Wow.

I might have just set the hushing record.

Well, almost.

For your insurance and financial needs, Nationwide is on your side.

Nationwide Investment Services Corporation, Ember Finrick, Columbus, Ohio.