NFL Training Camp: Justin Fields Hurt, Tua on Tyreek & the Travis Hunter Plan in Duval

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Speaker 2 Nope. It's problematic.

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Speaker 1 Coming up today on Heed the Call, injury scare at Jets Camp. Russell Wilson, the interview with Connor Orr.
Jerry Jones calls in, and oh no, Mark, crisis again with the Browns.

Speaker 2 Well, some things do not change around here. This is a packed show.
Do not miss it. Join us now.

Speaker 1 Let's go.

Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to another edition of Heed the Call, Heed in the Call, on a Thursday here in the early stages of training camps across America.

Speaker 1 Dan Hansis here with Mark Sessler and so much to get to today as we spin around the league and all the news coming out of the various team facilities.

Speaker 1 We're also going to do a deep dive on the tow of Russell Wilson coming off Connor Orr's profile of the Giants quarterback in Sports Illustrated and some other fun stuff.

Speaker 1 So yeah, Ceci, like the first show back was like first day of school. We got those jitters out and now we are off and running, baby.

Speaker 2 I remember when

Speaker 2 I went to college roughly 141 years ago, but like one of the one of the catchphrases that caught on was like, Thursday night's like the new Friday night on our campus.

Speaker 2 Like, but first of all, dumb, but like,

Speaker 2 not for working men. Like we work, there's a Monday, there's a Tuesday, there's a Wednesday, there's a Thursday, there's a Friday, and we are here for every possible day that the listener will need.

Speaker 1 Here are some other, for people that are curious, when Mark was young, some slang terms, boogie down,

Speaker 1 do me a solid, get your groove on, far out, funky, groovy,

Speaker 1 all kind of variations when Mark was coming of age.

Speaker 2 Slanderous, incorrect. Proceed.

Speaker 1 Let's proceed by bringing in the man who wrote the profile of Russell Wilson.

Speaker 1 Connor Orr. Oh my God, is that a police scanner I hear?

Speaker 4 You asked, and you shall receive.

Speaker 4 We have it cranked up, man.

Speaker 1 If you know one thing that gets right to my heart, it's following through on a bit. And here you are.

Speaker 1 So that scanner is picking up all police frequencies in the central New Jersey region in which you reside. Is that correct?

Speaker 4 Yeah, we have it on a scan of

Speaker 4 EMS, fire, and police. And then anytime there's something popping,

Speaker 4 which it sounds like there is,

Speaker 4 we get a little notification.

Speaker 4 When I have it on in the dark, you know, you're just kind of hanging out and you have it on as background noise.

Speaker 4 I like to imagine like the interplay or the romance between the dispatch officer and the police officer. Like maybe they're husband and wife.

Speaker 4 And like this is something that really kind of gets them going emotionally, romantically. And, you know, you can fall into a little bit of a world.

Speaker 2 I don't think they're husband and wife. That would be my first guess in this narrative you created.

Speaker 2 But like, I do ask you this because this is the way that old school journals would crack cases and get on cases first. Like you're a sports writer by nature.

Speaker 2 Are you tempted to, when something's going down in the New Jersey landscape, to get out there and get ahead of it on Twitter or break the news of some sort?

Speaker 4 It's never worked for me so far, but I'm lucky enough to say that I did work in a newspaper newsroom at a time when it was common practice for the night cops reporter to sit there with a police scanner turned all the way up.

Speaker 4 Now, that newsroom was in Newark, New Jersey. So it was more like just constantly blasting with like, bah, ba, ba, ba, ba, death, you know, and horror.

Speaker 4 And so everyone was always very busy writing down all the facts and stuff like that.

Speaker 4 But my scanner addiction actually came from my grandmother, who has had a police scanner actively in her house for 50 years. And it's like very very comforting to her.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So that was going to be my next point. You're kind of like the love child of a 57-year-old career cross-country truck driver and

Speaker 1 my

Speaker 1 great-grandmother mum mum, rest in peace, and her roommate, Aunt Rita, who like it was the first social media. You just sit in front of the police scanner and

Speaker 1 you get the news in real time as it happens.

Speaker 4 There's nothing better than because we used to spend every Christmas Eve at my grandmother's house. And in the Scranton, Pennsylvania area, it's mostly drunk driving, right?

Speaker 4 And you would get especially

Speaker 3 doing Scranton.

Speaker 4 That's pretty much it. There's nothing.
Road sodas.

Speaker 4 Yeah, just a couple Road Sodas. But so you'd have New Year's Eve we'd spend up there too.

Speaker 4 And so you'd just get just this very affable Scranton woman on the dispatch being like, what's going on over there, Mark? And he's just like, well, he can't walk.

Speaker 4 And, you know, we're just trying to get him back in the car. And so it's, I don't know.
I always had a really good time listening to it.

Speaker 2 So good throwing. It is bubbling up as a

Speaker 2 very popular side activity, or I guess almost like an activity while you're folding laundry. Like, and I, I,

Speaker 2 among many younger women, like police scanner apps are blowing up, and it's like something to do while you're doing stuff in other places.

Speaker 2 Like, I know I just read a story that it was like they were surprised that the demographic was

Speaker 2 tilted heavily towards females that they were doing.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm not saying it everywhere. You know, it's just, how does, How is it always Mark that digs up this information on the

Speaker 1 behaviors and habits of young women?

Speaker 3 It came to be.

Speaker 2 Well, maybe not young necessarily, but

Speaker 2 it is kind of like women love their true crime. We know that.
I think it's an attachment to that on some level.

Speaker 1 They do. They do.
All right. Well, it's time to get caught up.
Let's do a little bit of news here.

Speaker 1 Yes, Justin.

Speaker 5 Before we get into all that stuff, Dan, this is kind of crazy, but it appears that last night, Jerry Jones left us a voicemail on our hedonist hotline, and I wanted to play it for you guys.

Speaker 1 Has this been verified? Do we know this to be so? Jerry Jones, the owner of the Cowboys,

Speaker 1 hit up the HTC hotline.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I don't know if he listened to Tuesday's pod and heard us, heard you really talking about him getting up there in age, but I guess he called in to share some thoughts he had.

Speaker 3 All right, well, remarkable.

Speaker 1 Again, we don't have this 100% verified, but let's listen in.

Speaker 3 Of all the players I've had on my team and around me in my many years in this business, I'd say there's no player above Crabble Slime Doll.

Speaker 3 Crabble Slime Doll's a smart, savvy fella. You talk about understanding the ins and the outs of every aspect.
Well, maybe there's another player, Tortal Slude Doll. Oh, Tortal, he was one

Speaker 3 Swift, son of a gun.

Speaker 1 Oh, boy. I think that was.

Speaker 1 I think it was him. Some of those names, they didn't ring a bell, but he did, I guess, struggle with one of his star players' names earlier this week.

Speaker 3 So, could check it out.

Speaker 1 Rhodes Sodas, indeed.

Speaker 1 Wow, that was

Speaker 3 unexpected.

Speaker 1 Let's do some news.

Speaker 2 How'd they do?

Speaker 3 How do you feel about how they pass you back?

Speaker 1 I mean, mean, whether you were in a coma when I answered Tom's question

Speaker 1 or typing on your phone or tweeting, I don't know, but I spent five minutes answering that question.

Speaker 1 And I can go back through it,

Speaker 1 but I'd rather not.

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 3 I mean.

Speaker 1 We got to keep Justin's absolute mad scramble in the dropout.

Speaker 3 I never would have known that that happened.

Speaker 1 I mean, listen to say anything. You know,

Speaker 1 I am to blame much of the time for pre-production bleeding into scheduled start times, but Justin was going through it a little bit today, and you could tell he's on roller skates.

Speaker 1 And, you know, the triple drop.

Speaker 2 He's on something.

Speaker 1 You know, Mike Rabel, that was Mike Rabel admonishing a reporter. We talked about this a couple weeks ago with Sean Payton getting after some Denver journal for asking one too many questions.

Speaker 1 I, again, and coming from a different place than say a Connor Orr, who's a real journo that's been in buildings and covered teams, but like

Speaker 1 put the hat on me, make coaches dickheads again, because I, it's still, it's like wraps me up in a warm blanket. So Vrabel, don't change.

Speaker 1 And if that guy wasn't paying attention, that maybe is a greater conversation about culture and our inability to stay focused on the task at hand. So I'm in Vrabel's corner here.
How about that?

Speaker 2 I am too.

Speaker 2 I think that

Speaker 2 among journals, I could see them having the conversation like, this is a problem. Like we don't need to be treated this way.

Speaker 2 And although all of that is not really my point, just that like this is like a dog hitting a new neighborhood and peeing on a hydrant to mark his turf. Like, hey, guys, don't F with me.

Speaker 2 Like, you already thought you shouldn't, and you now are making, I'm making it very clear.

Speaker 4 And I think I know who that journal was but it's like you're gonna go you're doing your little side activity and then drop the same boring question on me i'm gonna let you know that doesn't work in rabel's house or on his hydrant there's a spectrum right where if you ask a question like i think sean payton's was a legitimate question about an injury or some sort of a developing situation but if you're a reporter and again you pop your head up and just be like how's it all going you know you do deserve to get the ball smacked back in your face and i i think that there's a two-way street here where we can't always be like, oh, they're just so mean to the beat reporters.

Speaker 4 Why are they doing that? If you ask a bad question, you set yourself up to get your ass catched.

Speaker 1 Do you remember kind of the first time you got lit up? Oh, God, yeah.

Speaker 4 And it was on purpose, too. It was Jim Boeheim

Speaker 4 because at Syracuse, the student newspaper, we're probably the second biggest outlet that covered the men's basketball.

Speaker 1 For people that don't know, Boeheim is a legendary college basketball coach for the Orangeman, your alma mater.

Speaker 4 Yes. And he is famous for

Speaker 4 ripping into student journalists. And many student journalists who have graduated from that program talk about how he kind of prepared them for professional,

Speaker 4 professional life. I just thought he was kind of a dickhead, but you know,

Speaker 4 however you want to parse it out. But I remember that Syracuse had just kicked the shit out of Maine and then they were about to play Florida with the title.

Speaker 1 Congratulations, by the way. I mean,

Speaker 1 I went to school school in New England and like all the guys I knew from Maine were like five foot seven and total weirdos. So we're giving up and down the eastern seaboard.

Speaker 1 Florida on the first show, Maine today, baby.

Speaker 2 They're not recruiting players simply from Maine, but Fairpoint, like if it were

Speaker 3 regional.

Speaker 1 You do have your roster will be dotted by regional products, typically.

Speaker 2 Got it.

Speaker 4 Yeah, but I remember like several of Maine's shots had hit the, like they didn't even reach the basket. They hit that big side part of the backboard when they would shoot.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we don't want to do that.

Speaker 1 You can't be doing that up there in Maine.

Speaker 1 Stick to the, get some wicked lobster, you know, stick to the ships. I mean, let's get out of the gyms because it ain't happening.

Speaker 2 It does feel like they're going to emotions.

Speaker 4 But I asked Jim Behem, I was like, is this really the best build-up for one of the best teams in the country?

Speaker 4 And he just ripped me to shreds about how I don't understand scheduling and procedural things and how we're ready for anything at any time and and just like the the absolute

Speaker 4 like like rolling his eyes and being like, I can't believe you would even bring that up thing afterwards. It was

Speaker 1 something.

Speaker 4 It was tough. It was nothing like it, you know?

Speaker 1 Well, I'm glad you came through it and learned. And now you've publicly slandered one of the great figures in the history of your university.

Speaker 1 No, that shows that you don't, yeah, you don't, you don't indiscriminate, you know? All right, let's get into it.

Speaker 1 Let's start with the news, including the one that item that popped up on my social media that gave me serious pause.

Speaker 1 Justin Fields, the quarterback of the New York Jets, was carted off the practice field on Thursday morning with a right toe injury.

Speaker 1 This was obviously when the news first comes out, it's like carted, lower body injury. Okay, it's his toe.
Well, then some more news trickled out, and maybe it's not as bad, but we're going to see.

Speaker 1 It's not deemed to be significant, according to ESBN's Rick Shimini.

Speaker 1 And he's expected to be ready for week one against the Steelers, according to a source. We'll see how long Fields is sidelined.
And obviously,

Speaker 1 Mark, Fields being out for any period of time during this ramp-up training camp period is not ideal because he's on a new team and a new offense and trying to take on the role of leader of the offensive side of the football.

Speaker 1 But I guess I just have to

Speaker 1 count my blessings that his season isn't over over, and there's a preliminary diagnosis out there that it was a dislocated toe and not the big toe.

Speaker 1 So more tests coming, but looks like the Jets may have dodged a bullet here.

Speaker 2 I hope so.

Speaker 2 You've got Tyrod Taylor, and they said that we don't need to change a thing in essence in these practices that Fields would miss.

Speaker 2 You don't want any disruption to trying to get him ready for that week one game, but I do kind of feel like this was the first story of this ramp up where I was checking like Twitter every five,

Speaker 2 55 seconds or so to see if there was a new report. Because it's like it started, it started sounding nuclear really bad and just got better and better.

Speaker 2 But like for the Jets fan, because you saw all like the Rodgers memes of the flag and all this stuff, it's like I just would pick for a couple fan bases.

Speaker 2 Can we get to week one and through week one without intense drama that make that reminds you of the sadness of Earth?

Speaker 1 In the words of legendary Jets fan Joe Beningo of WFAN, from your lips to God's ears, my friend.

Speaker 3 Connor?

Speaker 4 It was a great test, I think, of Jet fan reflexes because it happens in real time.

Speaker 4 And then I get a text from all my friends in the husband's group, in the neighborhood chat, saying, oh, throw on WFAN.

Speaker 4 And literally 45 seconds after Justin Fields is in the building, you have Brandon Tierney going, This is the worst thing that could possibly happen.

Speaker 4 And like, and flipping out at the producer, he's like, Why aren't my goddamn controls the way that I left them?

Speaker 4 And then he's in a bad mood, and everyone's spiraling out of control. And so, you have to respect their ability to immediately fall in to the character that you expect from them.

Speaker 4 So, I thought that was like a fire drill. And I think that everybody is in peak form.

Speaker 1 All right, can you guys give me a moment here? I got to do something. This is important.

Speaker 3 Okay, I've

Speaker 1 turned out the lights.

Speaker 1 All right, we're just going to do a little something here.

Speaker 4 This is for

Speaker 1 light some incense here.

Speaker 1 Don't f this up. Burn my house down.
Alright, here we go.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Hit it, Justin.

Speaker 1 This is a message.

Speaker 1 Demons be gone.

Speaker 1 Get behind me, Satan.

Speaker 1 We submit ourselves to you, O Mighty Football Gods, and command evil spirits to depart.

Speaker 1 Guide us toward the light,

Speaker 1 O spirit of Jeff Lagamon.

Speaker 1 we reject the darkness.

Speaker 1 Only purity exists here now

Speaker 1 in Florim Park

Speaker 1 and all territories surrounding Morris County, New Jersey,

Speaker 1 please,

Speaker 1 including but not limited

Speaker 1 to the Livingston Mall.

Speaker 1 May this serve as a final warning

Speaker 1 to witches,

Speaker 3 warlocks,

Speaker 1 and any other purveyors

Speaker 1 of satanic treachery.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 3 Whoops.

Speaker 3 Go ahead, guys.

Speaker 2 A couple concerns

Speaker 2 from a specific Jets angle.

Speaker 2 You invoked about eight to nine different sort of spiritual realms there. A lot of different mixed analogies.
I liked it.

Speaker 2 It felt comprehensive, but you invoked so many forms of evil, essentially what sounds like from the Jets complex. That

Speaker 2 I don't know if you wanted to mess with that. You might have opened up

Speaker 2 a bit of a Pandora's box based on what I believe is in existence below the Jets facility, but you're playing with fire.

Speaker 1 We're playing with fire, but this is, we're needing to get into, I mean, we're literally playing with fire. And my wife's going to kill me because she hates incense.

Speaker 2 Well, tell her that

Speaker 2 you have some gas, a gas issue, and it, and it helps with that.

Speaker 2 What would she prefer?

Speaker 3 Crows.

Speaker 4 I remain one of the most gullible people in the world. And when the lights went down in Dan's garage and he said this is important, in no way did my mind go to a bits about to occur.

Speaker 4 And I thought, like, Dan's in serious trouble.

Speaker 4 But the B-side to that is there is no rescuing the Livingston Mall. I actually just sent you some photos.

Speaker 4 The Livingston Mall is deader than dead.

Speaker 4 It is a walking

Speaker 4 empty casket. So just.

Speaker 1 That's why I mean, maybe I wasn't really aware of that, but

Speaker 1 maybe it's extra important that I included it then. Maybe it needs all the help it can get.
What was the old Chris Rockpick? There's always, you know, there's

Speaker 1 the mall that people go to and then the mall people used to go to. It sounds like that's where Livingston.

Speaker 1 For us, it was like

Speaker 1 in Rockland County, it's like when the Palisade Center Mall opened up in 98. It was like a huge deal.
And then there's a little old Danuette mall, just like massive dump taken on its legacy.

Speaker 1 Anyway, let's focus up.

Speaker 1 So you bring up Jersey. You're going to get in the Tri-State Area.
You're going to get into mall talk. We're off topic.
Demons be gone in other news. Oh, by the way, Nathaniel Hackett.
Remember him?

Speaker 1 Speaking of the Jets and offensive struggles, he has rejoined the Packers working as a defensive assistant. Classic move, Connor, for

Speaker 1 coach who's in turmoil/slash career crossroads to switch to the other side of the ball. I feel like Mangini did it as well.
Mangini did it.

Speaker 1 And it's a bit of a move for coaches. It's like, to use a baseball parallel, Joey Gallo is like a great slugger for a time in the early late 2010s.
And then he became this like strikeout machine.

Speaker 1 And then he tried this year to be a pitcher. This feels like Hackett's, yeah, he's toiling away.

Speaker 1 He gave up hitting. I think, breaking news, I think that

Speaker 1 Hackett's gone full gallow here. And I wish the best for him.
Really seems like a great guy, but the offensive play caller thing, it was time to move on.

Speaker 4 It was the same role that Matt LaFleur offered to Robert Sala last year, immediately after he was let go by the Jets. He came on as an offensive consultant.
So Hackett does the reverse of it.

Speaker 4 But I will say that this puts him in a position to do, Hackett was always the consummate clubhouse guy. And that's why he did so well in Green Bay the first time around.

Speaker 4 That's why he got hired in Denver. And I think if he didn't have some of the situations, it might have gone a little bit differently because he had good coaches there.

Speaker 4 But now he can just go back to being the clubhouse guy, being the ultimate clubhouse guy.

Speaker 1 And I think it'll be a benefit for Green Bay.

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 2 I'd argue he's been helping defenses consistently for the past two seasons. So it may be a smart pickup.

Speaker 1 That's a good point.

Speaker 1 Here's a quote that kind of says it all. And speaking to your point, Connor, from Matt LaFleur.
He's a guy I really respect and we've had a lot of great times together. I don't doubt that.

Speaker 1 I don't doubt that Hackett's a great hang and that's a reason why he's still in the league right now. Can he help? We'll see.

Speaker 1 All right. In other news, a retirement, always annoying, especially when we just finished recording a podcast.
This happened on Tuesday. Saints safety Tyron Matthew

Speaker 1 announced his, he's the honey badger, of course, announced his retirement on Tuesday on the eve of the team's first training camp practice. This was a surprise for the team.
He's 33. Man, time flies.

Speaker 1 33 is about the time when a defensive back usually ends his career. And yet I was still under the impression that he was a young man

Speaker 1 by football standards. He was not.
He retires after 12 seasons.

Speaker 1 The last three were with the Saints. And Mark, he's one of those dudes

Speaker 1 that... feels like he marks a lot of ground in the history of our show.

Speaker 1 And a friend of ours was a big fan of his, wasn't he?

Speaker 2 Chris Wesling. Anyone that knew Chris Wesling and read anything that he would tweet about or write

Speaker 2 back in the day when Honey Badger was becoming this important type of player in the league, like he's logged 29% snaps in the slot, in the box, and deep.

Speaker 2 Like they used him all over at a time when safeties were changing and being kind of like diversified with linebacker play. But Tyron Matthew was 5'9.

Speaker 2 was this magnificent, like you, you, when he was at LSU, though, because I don't watch a lot of college, but I'll never forget that like entire sports bars would be electrified by what he could do.

Speaker 2 And the thing that always got, it stays in my mind is that he fell to the third round in the draft because of the substance abuse issues that he had at LSU, which were

Speaker 1 the major storyline of his rookie year.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and like, it's like he was the classic draft fall. And it took, he went to the Cardinals, but it took people to believe in him.
And if you go and listen to more of his story, like his

Speaker 2 walk from a 12-year-old that did weed out of anxiety and was just part of your culture and your life to get his way out of that and become who he was. And now he wants to be a coach.

Speaker 2 It's like he kind of from off the field, on the field, embodied like this great NFL story where he changed the game, but he also kind of...

Speaker 2 put everyone, all the draft knicks back in their place a little bit where it's like people are coming into this league with a lot of different backgrounds.

Speaker 2 Here's someone that can prove that he's going to prove you all wrong. For the people that passed him by, the 70-plus teams, like

Speaker 2 that's the, that's your

Speaker 3 story right there.

Speaker 1 That's also why people say, like, oh, the combine and the interview process, and, you know, it's unnecessary or unfair. It's like, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 I think a guy that had a checkered pass like Honey Badger did, kudos to the Cardinals because they did their research, they checked in on him, they had frank talks with him, and they bought what he was selling.

Speaker 1 And then it turned out, Connor, that he was a tremendous guy.

Speaker 1 Like, I'll never forget at the height of his career, early in his Cardinals' career, when they had those really good teams with Kurt Warner. Me and Zumwalt went to the premiere of All or Nothing.

Speaker 1 I think it was the 2015

Speaker 1 Cardinals. And we, I've told this story before in the show, but we ended up in this private room with all the Cardinals players.

Speaker 1 And I still never forget Carson Palmer with this like big QB America energy, like at the end of the bar, just slamming Bud Heavies and meeting Callaeus Campbell and meeting all these different figures.

Speaker 1 But the guy that resonated most was Matthew because he

Speaker 1 was so warm and so friendly and so engaging. And I remember thinking at the time, man, three years ago, people thought this guy was a punk and somebody that was going to wash out out of the league.

Speaker 1 So, you know, that part of his story is excellent.

Speaker 1 Another reason, the reason Wes loved him was he was such a dynamic, interesting, different, aggressive player and fun to watch. So, you know, he's a safety.

Speaker 1 He'd kind of been a little bit out of the out of the public eye in the last few years in his decline years, but he did get that Super Bowl title with the Chiefs, which was nice.

Speaker 1 And he deserves to be celebrated at the end of his career.

Speaker 4 No doubt. I think Mark's point was a phenomenal one.

Speaker 4 It's sort of a Rubicon crossing moment for the DraftKnick crowd where I think it did force us to reconsider just the blanket narrative of someone being a concern or an issue and opening all of our eyes to the fact that, hey, maybe a kid who grew up in Louisiana and went to had his friends in Louisiana and went to college in Louisiana could change and mature under a different set of circumstances instead of just smashing a label on this guy and already writing this story about failed potential before it even starts.

Speaker 4 And so I'm super happy for him and I'm glad that he's going to end up in a role where he's advising younger players again. I think that's fantastic.

Speaker 1 I mean, mark my words, that dude, he's got head coach written all over him. If that's where he wants to go, I'd agree.
His experience,

Speaker 1 his experiences on the field, off the field, his ability to connect with people,

Speaker 1 if he chooses to really dive in and go down that road, I think it's kind of sky's the limit. So not the last we're going to hear of the Honey Badger.

Speaker 1 That is my prediction in terms of the NFL landscape.

Speaker 1 In other news,

Speaker 1 I found this interesting. Bengals head coach Zach Taylor says Joe Joe Burrow will play more this preseason than ever before as the team looks to start the season faster than in years past.

Speaker 1 Here's some sound from Taylor on this.

Speaker 6 The one thing I do feel good about is playing our guys more in the preseason.

Speaker 6 That's always subject to change depending on health and how things go with our team during training camp.

Speaker 6 But that's one thing that we've openly talked about with our players and I think will help us as we do it. And so

Speaker 6 they know that. We've talked about that and we'll go from there.

Speaker 1 This is the stuff that makes me wonder about Zach Taylor.

Speaker 1 I hope he's referring more to the defensive side of the ball. If you watch quarterbacks on Netflix, and we're going to hit that next week, most likely, but

Speaker 1 if you watch that show, it was alarming and almost incredible to see how many times the offense was let down by the defense that scoring 35, 40, 42 points was not enough.

Speaker 1 So many of those weeks for a team that had a Super Bowl offense and arguably the best quarterback in the league and no defensive ability at all to get a big stop. So

Speaker 1 if Joe Burrow is on the field for an extra snap, Cesi, like I'm against it because that's an extra snap that he could get injured. And we got to be very careful about the preseason.

Speaker 1 I understand the larger idea of what his point is, but I just hope it's not as

Speaker 1 dunderheaded as it kind of appears to be.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think like the, you know, we've started slow. We talked about the numbers last episode about past three seasons.
That's been a very Bengals-esque,

Speaker 2 you know, fortune to start that way. And then you're working from behind and you're in a lot of these shootouts, but watching a little bit more of quarterback each day.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Go on, man. I'm suddenly met by that was either a toddler or a child or a baby of some nature.

Speaker 1 Or a baby being thrown into a

Speaker 1 Bengal cage. I mean, that seemed

Speaker 1 dropping.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 5 It's a Bengal, but it's like a little, weak, little, not-scary, not-fierce bangle. It's not a baby.

Speaker 1 Put into prison, like a federal prison. It's not a baby.

Speaker 4 A regular bangle wouldn't sound like that.

Speaker 3 Hear that? I mean, it sounds like a baby. That's a human baby.

Speaker 2 That's a baby-ish to me.

Speaker 4 That's not how a tiger sounds. That's a human baby.

Speaker 5 I will remake the draft. Thank you.

Speaker 2 Mark. I'd keep it for that conversation.
No, I just was going to say that the one thing I noticed in a couple scenes, and

Speaker 2 it was out there last year, that when times got tough, like Burrow and Taylor do not seem on the same page to me at times.

Speaker 2 Like Burrow's got to become the fire verbally, and he seems angry about the situation.

Speaker 2 I know he's got to be the head coach, too, but like it's like they seem to be in a disconnect in terms of like the classic mind mill between head coach and quarterback.

Speaker 1 Last point. It was his age 28 season, Burrow.
Threw for almost 5,000 yards, led the league, threw for 43 touchdowns, led the league, completed nearly 71% of his passes.

Speaker 1 Again, if there's any extra focus and changes to

Speaker 1 how the team prepares for a new season and hoping not to get out to an 0-3 start again, which wrecked their season in a lot of ways, it's the defense that needs to be overhauled in every way.

Speaker 1 Except the offense.

Speaker 2 And don't get into a Snoopy Bull scenario where we're eight days away from the opener and

Speaker 2 you're getting a little too pretty with your quarterback play.

Speaker 1 The real ones get that reference.

Speaker 1 In other news, the Miami Dolphins, they had some drama at the end of last season. As you may recall, Tyreek Hill, obviously frustrated by what appeared to be the arc of his career in Miami,

Speaker 1 strongly intimated that he wanted to be traded and wanted a fresh start elsewhere. He ended up backing off those comments, but it did leave behind at least some

Speaker 1 idea that the locker room is looking at him with an eyebrow up. Put it that way.
Here's Tua,

Speaker 1 who has talked about the relationship Hill has with his teammates after his

Speaker 1 unhappy comments at the end of the regular season in January.

Speaker 7 I would say we're still continuing to do that. But it's not just with me, it's with a lot of the guys.
I'm not the only one that heard that. You guys aren't the only people that heard that.

Speaker 7 You know, a lot of people that follow football, that follow the Miami Dolphins, that follow Tyreek, that are fans of his, you know, everyone has seen that. So

Speaker 7 when you say something like that, it's, you don't just come back from that with, hey, my bad.

Speaker 1 You know, you got to work that relationship up.

Speaker 7 You got to build everything up

Speaker 7 again. And yeah,

Speaker 7 it's still a work in progress, not just for me, but for everybody.

Speaker 4 It's one of those situations where when you're saying it, you can see in his eyes the acknowledgement that this is probably going to end up slightly bigger of a story than he intended it to based on the tenor of the comment.

Speaker 1 He's like, stop talking, stop talking, stop talking. He's just going on and on and on.
Can't stop, can't stop, can't stop. That's why you kind of

Speaker 4 yeah, you kind of pat it with fluff at the end. And it's like, so anyway, he's not that big of an asshole.
And does anyone else have any other questions? But

Speaker 4 this is an interesting moment, I think, for Tua because you have Jalen Ramsey is gone. I think he was sort of the consummate veteran voice in the room.

Speaker 4 Guys like Calais Campbell were for a really long time in Miami. And so

Speaker 4 how does that land?

Speaker 4 And I think that's what's really going to be interesting to me because I think we've all been on teams where you have a consummate leader and then you have teams where somebody kind of tries the shoes on for the first time and everyone's like, shut up, douche, you know?

Speaker 4 And so we'll see what happens there. And I'm not calling Tua douche.
I'm just saying that maybe that's how it's perceived. And we just won't know that until until a couple weeks from now.

Speaker 2 And as someone who, when you've asked me for a

Speaker 2 a two-sentence answer, I give you two extra sentences that tend to get me in trouble sometimes. Like, I get what was happening there.
I like to see him speak up, though.

Speaker 2 I thought that that was a little more demonstrative version of Tua. I just wonder if this Dolphins team, like, is does Tyreek end up as like a trade deadline candidate?

Speaker 2 Because it just seems like veterans want off this team for some reason. Just they seem to.

Speaker 3 And this is clearly a dolphin. That's an example of that.

Speaker 2 That was a dolphin.

Speaker 1 Clearly. And we're not just talking about the age of the dolphins.
They're just going into the pools and

Speaker 1 splashing the people at SeaWorld. Like, there's no doubt what you just played there.

Speaker 3 Great.

Speaker 5 Note taken.

Speaker 1 The Jaguars, speaking of Florida teams, and again, apologies to all of Florida. From me personally, Connor is a little dug in on Florida, and that's okay.
Everyone's entitled to opinions.

Speaker 1 But in other Florida news, the Jaguars plan to, quote, flip-flop Travis Hunter. the dynamic two-way star out of Colorado, who's taken in the first round of May's draft.

Speaker 1 Flip-flop both ways in camp. Here is head coach.
Let's check in on Liam Cohen. I got my eye on this Cohen character in the head coach role.

Speaker 1 Let's hear what he had to say about a reporter asking him about flip-flopping.

Speaker 8 Yeah, he will. Probably within the first, you know, six practices or so.

Speaker 8 Like, we'll probably have him, you know, you want to give him a couple days offense, couple days defense, and then give him an opportunity to go flip-flop within the same practice.

Speaker 8 And then that will kind of become the norm, right? Like once we do that, that'll kind of become the norm and how we operate, but it'll probably be within the first week or so.

Speaker 1 You ever

Speaker 3 do ball?

Speaker 1 You ever go to a store, like a,

Speaker 3 I don't know, like

Speaker 1 a type of like clothing store of some kind

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 you go to the sunglasses rack and

Speaker 1 you see what you see a pair of that's like oh those look pretty cool and then you put them on and you look in the mirror and you're like shit these are cool

Speaker 1 but I'm not cool. Like, that's not, it's just not, it's, this is not a match.
The glasses, I'm down, but I just don't think I could pull them off with confidence.

Speaker 1 That's kind of how I feel about Liam Cohen's sunglasses choice here in this press conference. It's like he, he, he picked them off the rack and he had a little bit of doubts.

Speaker 1 And he's like, let me just like kind of give it a shot. And, um,

Speaker 1 and now there's assholes like me making comments about them.

Speaker 2 You uh, you are not an asshole. I'm not going to put you in that category.
I, what is disappointing to me from a men's fashion angle is that he's not a guy that

Speaker 2 has come down from the Pacific Northwest. He's

Speaker 2 in Florida for the first summer of his life, and you realize, shit, I got to go pick up some sunglasses.

Speaker 3 And your options are limited.

Speaker 2 He's been in Florida for many years at this point and should have this on lock. We shouldn't be having this conversation.

Speaker 1 I mean, he took a chance. He's taking chances there.

Speaker 1 They're stylish black shades.

Speaker 4 I once went to a lens crafters to pick out glasses, and it was like my first big adult pair of glasses. And I tried them on and I was very excited about them.

Speaker 4 And the woman at the checkout put her hand around my shoulders and she said,

Speaker 4 by wearing these, I don't think you're quite saying to others what you think you'll be saying to others.

Speaker 4 And was basically like, don't buy a cool pair of glasses because you look like a penis with lenses on.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. It's tough.
It's tough. It's one of those things in life.

Speaker 1 It's a very private thing and you have to really deliberate before making the selection. It's a good saleswoman.
I get Cohen. That is a very difficult.
Yes, Cohen is a very difficult spot.

Speaker 1 It's a unique place that he's in. And as a first-time coach, I empathize with the challenge here.

Speaker 1 He spent the bulk of OTAs in minicamp on offense because the Jags wanted him to learn that side of the ball since it's more complex in terms of route trees and check downs, audibles, adjustments.

Speaker 1 And he did some practice on the defensive side of the ball. So now they're going to try to make it a little more even.

Speaker 1 And let's see if he could play the old double neck guitar.

Speaker 3 Moving on.

Speaker 1 A couple quick notes here.

Speaker 1 Safety Jamal Adams. Remember him? He's bounced around the league in recent years.
He signs with the Raiders. So they're going to see if there's anything there with the former all-pro.

Speaker 1 Also, Darren Waller. He keeps him coming up in the news.
He doesn't seem like a real person anymore. Is this an elaborate prank against the the NFL podcast? I don't know.

Speaker 1 But the Dolphins have placed the veteran tight end recently acquired in a weird trade with the Giants on the pup list. Don't know.

Speaker 1 Like, I didn't click into any link on it because I just, I don't know what to believe. I don't know if I'm being sent to a malicious website.

Speaker 1 But this is something that might be happening. Darren Waller might be in the NFL, and he may be on the pup list for the Dolphins team from Miami.

Speaker 1 Just, that's the job of this podcast sometimes, is to relay news.

Speaker 3 But I don't know if this is real.

Speaker 2 I don't think it feels like anyone's responsibility to immensely dig deeper into this topic.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 But now people know. Cardinals' first-round pick defensive lineman Walter Nolan suffered a calf injury.
Ah,

Speaker 1 that sucks. Sorry, Zumalt.
At the team facility that will likely knock him out for most or all of training camp. Hate it, hate it, hate it.
Sources tell Rapsheet.

Speaker 1 The timetable right now puts him right up against the start of the season. He'll obviously do a lot of his recovery now in training camp.
Not what you want.

Speaker 1 And it's not what you want, as Joe Girardi once said many times. It's not what you want.
But

Speaker 1 let's just hope it's not precursor to something more serious. I don't know what it is, and maybe part of it is speaking of voodoo curses.
Like

Speaker 1 I feel like starting with the Aaron Rodgers Achilles incident in Monday Night Football week one of 23,

Speaker 1 and then my dad tore his Achilles right in front of me less than a year later, and then like half of the NBA.

Speaker 1 And it just seems like, you know, Kirk Cousins, it seems like the Achilles is

Speaker 1 in vogue right now as the devastating lower body injury. And when I hear Calf and look at the

Speaker 1 who was the, well, there was multiple NBA all-stars in the playoffs this year that went down where it started as a calf strain, and then they tried to play through it, and then it graduated, if you want to put it that way, to an Achilles tear.

Speaker 1 So hopefully the Cardinals are going to be very safe with Nolan

Speaker 1 because obviously he has a lot of potential and they need his help.

Speaker 4 I have a theory about the prevalence of Achilles injuries, and I think this is due to the rise in socks and slides culture. So either socks and Birkenstocks or socks and slides, socks and crocs.

Speaker 4 These are all zero drop shoes, which are quite different than your normal athletic sneaker, which might be like an eight millimeter drop.

Speaker 4 I too am suffering from an Achilles issue after really kind of digging in on myself as as a Birkenstock guy. Walked like two miles

Speaker 4 in them the other day and woke up in immense pain. So like Walter Nolan, I too am going through it, and I think I might know the reason.

Speaker 2 Are a lot of NBA players waltzing around in Birkenstocks? Not to suggest they aren't, but I mean, are we going down different roads shoe-wear-wise?

Speaker 1 Let's not put anybody in a footwear box here, Mark.

Speaker 2 I asked the question. I didn't put anybody in the loafers and also zero-drop shoes.

Speaker 4 You know,

Speaker 4 anything that doesn't kind of gradually lay your foot down.

Speaker 1 I like to think that old Burkos cross over all racial and cultural boundaries. That's just me, though.

Speaker 2 You're suggesting that I don't think that, but that's if we were to rewind the tape, it's clear I wasn't making that point.

Speaker 1 All right, time for another edition of a very important running segment on the show.

Speaker 3 Remember the Titans?

Speaker 1 You know, this is the type of stuff that

Speaker 1 me, Mark, and Connor would never see, and the whole the football universe would never see.

Speaker 1 But our producer has literally a spinning Titans helmet behind him at all times, and a Titans replica helmet, and a

Speaker 1 glowing 3D Titan sign hanging behind him, and a book that his podcast co-host wrote about the Titans behind him. It's all a little bit much, to be be honest with you.

Speaker 1 Is that a Haywood Jeffries autograph photo over your right shoulder? Eddie George. Eddie George.
Eddie George, yes. Okay.

Speaker 2 Who would suggest it's a bit much?

Speaker 1 This guy likes the Titans.

Speaker 1 So Justin put this in front of us.

Speaker 3 Here is Cam Ward.

Speaker 1 And if you don't know who Cam Ward is, Cam Ward was selected first in the most recent NFL draft, a little like the more you know there.

Speaker 1 Here is his reaction or lack of reaction to the the news that Will Levis,

Speaker 1 the former flavor of the month at quarterback for the Titans, would miss the entire 2025 season with an injury.

Speaker 2 What's been your reaction to the news that Levis had decided to have surgery and it's kind of subtracted from the quarterback room now? Oh, I really don't have a reaction.

Speaker 1 I focus on Cam Ward.

Speaker 1 I mean, he kind of speaks for all of us in a way, right?

Speaker 3 Who gives a shit? Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. That was another edition of Remember the Titans?

Speaker 1 Truncheo. That one was hot.
All right. Let's.

Speaker 1 All right. Let's take a break and we'll be right back.

Speaker 1 Heeding that call. I hope you're enjoying the show.
It's not all that you can get from Heed the Call because we got the Patreon with all new content every week, Mark.

Speaker 2 Every week we've got our beloved award-winning Friday fun show. I know that Jason Zummalt and I have a Rolling Thunder coming out next week on one of our favorite authors of all time, Plus More Dan.

Speaker 1 Plus More. And it should be legally, we should let you know that the Friday Fun Show, while plenty of fun and indeed a show has never won an award, just throwing that out there.

Speaker 3 But yes, not yet.

Speaker 1 All sorts of content, whether it's the throwback pod, it came from the subreddit Rolling Thunder, Silver Horses, Mark's Newsletter. There is so much content.

Speaker 1 You got to get in on the Patreon, Hedonists Unite. We love you.
Back to the show.

Speaker 1 All right, we are back.

Speaker 1 All right, let's uh continue with the news here.

Speaker 3 Yes, Justin.

Speaker 5 Sorry, not to derail the show again, but I actually just was going through the inbox.

Speaker 5 We actually got a second voicemail last night from Jerry Jones, and I wanted to play it and see what you guys thought.

Speaker 1 All right, let's listen in. This is very, this is a big-time figure in the league.

Speaker 3 Here's something you don't understand. Not a lot of people would, because ain't many people who been sitting in my church.

Speaker 3 Not only do I see the forest from them their trees, I see the grooves in the trees. I see the knots in the trees.
I see them chipmunks up there with the owls. Whoo, whoo, I see you, how.

Speaker 3 I see you, mighty owl.

Speaker 3 Something else you might not understand.

Speaker 3 Sometimes you can go ahead and sign a player. You can back up that branch truck for him.
You give him all this guaranteed money, but that don't mean he ain't gonna play for you.

Speaker 3 Nope, sometimes they never even play a single snap for you. Happened to me once in 2004.

Speaker 3 Great player, one of the best I ever seen with my own eyes. Sam D.
Ford Lautendor.

Speaker 3 Sam D. Fort Lauttendor.

Speaker 3 Heck of a player. Broken pinky toe.
Never played another snap as a cowboy, made $700 million.

Speaker 3 Look it up, look it up,

Speaker 3 look it up.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's so much detail there that has to be Jerry Jones.

Speaker 2 I feel like just off camera, you could hear someone saying, Jerry, what happened to that full bottle of whiskey?

Speaker 3 Called twice.

Speaker 3 Called twice.

Speaker 1 And it looks like the second one came in after 3 in the morning. 3.14.

Speaker 1 All right. Speaking of the NFC East,

Speaker 1 Giants head coach Brian Dable did name Russell Wilson, as expected,

Speaker 1 the starting quarterback of the G-men. He did add that others will be, quote, competing.
Here is Dable, who's still the head coach there, by the way. Sometimes I forget.

Speaker 1 It's like, how many, like, how many losses can one man

Speaker 1 add to his resume before getting fired?

Speaker 1 Dable is a great study in perseverance. All right, here we go.
Brian Dable. Yeah, I'd say that'll play out.
Russ will be our starter, and that's how it'll be once we get started here in the spring.

Speaker 1 And, you know, look, the process of developing a quarterback is just that.

Speaker 1 So we're going to do everything we can to develop him and bring him along. And, you know,

Speaker 1 we have some good quarterbacks in the room relative to playtime, experience,

Speaker 3 some

Speaker 1 medals on the wall, if you will,

Speaker 1 that have done a great job here these first four days.

Speaker 1 It's really early, phase one, but the two of those guys that we've added have added a lot of value already to the room in terms of leadership and communication.

Speaker 1 And it's been four days, so there's a long way to go with both of those guys. But again, I want to make this about Jackson, his night.

Speaker 1 Young player. I think he's got a good skill set, and look forward to developing it with him.

Speaker 1 Jax is Jackson Dart, he is the first-round pick who will most likely play at some point this season.

Speaker 1 And there is Jameis Winston in the room. I don't know how many medals Jameis Winston has on the wall, but you know, that's beside the point.

Speaker 1 And along those lines, Connor Orr, as we've teased, over on si.com, it was a digital cover story, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, on the new Giants quarterback. And

Speaker 1 I liked the profile that came out about 10 days ago now. I enjoy, first of all, I enjoy your headshot as I look at it.
Look at the lighting on it.

Speaker 1 It's the new Connor.

Speaker 1 Like we get the suburban dad Connor, like Normcor on the show, and we appreciate that. Backwards cap, t-shirts, you know, that is the Connor's like SI.
It's like, hey, get dressed up, bitch.

Speaker 3 It's picture day, Connor, which we've never gotten on the show.

Speaker 1 Maybe once. Surprise us one day, just like picture day, bitch.
Connor shows up.

Speaker 4 I've worn nice clothes so few times that my neighbors have said they've stopped acknowledging when I do because like the two times that they noticed it, I was going to funerals. And so.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's a bad sign.

Speaker 1 Connor's dressed up. Somebody died.

Speaker 1 That's dead. Yeah.
That's the lesson here.

Speaker 1 Anyway, so. What I really liked, and it was a great piece, and everybody should check it out.

Speaker 1 But I like the thing that I know you most for when it comes to Russell Wilson is kind of like the hook of your story, which is you are one of the increasingly few believers in Russ.

Speaker 1 And you get to spend an hour with him and you see the way he operates. And did you go into this profile? And we'd love to know everything about kind of what he was like that day.

Speaker 1 Did you go into there looking kind of to be reassured that your take that Russ has something to give to this league will will be validated in some way?

Speaker 1 Like, where was your mindset going into this conversation with Wilson?

Speaker 4 My mindset was: so, Russ and I are both 37. I started covering the NFL during his rookie season.

Speaker 4 He was one of my first big stories at SI back in 2020. And at the time, we were both having kids and we were talking about a lot of that stuff during the process.

Speaker 1 And you had also adopted one of Future's children as well, as I recall. So, there was actually a lot.

Speaker 3 Spot on.

Speaker 1 Spot on accurate.

Speaker 4 A lot of connective connective tissue okay go ahead and i had also at that time russ had a relationship with his uh very famous uh late uh mental performance coach trevor moad who was like a legend in uh professional sports uh circles and i'd read that book which was sort of the baseline of his relentless positivity philosophy and so

Speaker 4 After so long in your life, you've been doing this for 15 years in the NFL. You have kids, you get married, your life changes in so many ways.

Speaker 4 I think I just went into it wondering, like, are you still this person?

Speaker 4 And if you're still attempting to be this character, why are you doing this? And is it now for your children more than it is for you? Do you find that it works for you?

Speaker 4 It seems exhausting to me and everyone around you.

Speaker 3 Let's go. Let's ride, baby.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 I really just kind of wanted to hammer him down on that. Not to be always negative, but like, dude, you've had some really bad days.
And

Speaker 4 how does that impact the facade of the Russell Wilson brand?

Speaker 2 I wanted to read,

Speaker 2 it's a great piece. And

Speaker 2 you're at a place now because we've all read our bigger pieces in the past, but you have a, I can tell when I'm reading something that you wrote

Speaker 2 and in the best way, but you wrote, the cynic in me now feels buried, Hoffa style, perhaps fitting given that Wilson will now be playing in the meadowlands.

Speaker 2 Maybe Wilson isn't for everyone, but he is especially for people who need to believe that good things can happen anywhere. I just want to comment, use that quote to say that I have never

Speaker 2 read a piece by you where I don't believe in the player the way that I'm not down on him, but it's like the Wilson that we once knew is gone forever. Can he have a reclamation season? Yes.

Speaker 2 But I have never read a piece from you where I feel like the personal experience of Russell Wilson kind of brought you hope and joy and seems very connected with the Connor aura of today as well, which did that affect your, or does it affect your ability to look at this player and say, he's probably going to be benched by week five, but we can sell it a different way?

Speaker 1 Connor does not believe that, that we should note that.

Speaker 2 I don't think he does, but like, does the person of Russell Wilson bleed into the player? Like, are you buying the person of Russell Wilson in a line?

Speaker 1 Can I just double up on that too? Because along the same lines, like, his entire

Speaker 1 aura and his public facing, and I believe it to be,

Speaker 1 I believe him the way he speaks, but it's also sometimes it doesn't feel rooted in the reality of like the human experience.

Speaker 1 Sometimes I struggle to see Russell Wilson as a guy who actually has awareness of the world in a real way. And when you talk about like his struggles

Speaker 1 in recent seasons and, you know, why should we think this is different? And he gives you a quote in this, just believe, why not? And like, I like that. I'm an optimist by nature.

Speaker 1 But I wonder if like all the outside negativity and the

Speaker 1 decline of his athleticism and his play, like if

Speaker 1 what helps make him tick is also what makes him somebody that sometimes can be frustrating from someone that maybe has a more grounded or dare I say cynical look at the world where it's like, all right, dude, you could talk about how amazing everything is and you just got to believe.

Speaker 1 And oh, now I'm in New York and I'm so revitalized by the big city and all this stuff.

Speaker 1 But it's like, here on planet Earth, there's also realities that I don't know if like reality is in his world or if the Rust bubble is just like so impenetrable that it makes his life better because it's able to block out anything he doesn't want in it, but also gives him a disconnect from what's actually happening, which is you're a 37-year-old player in deep decline and you're never going to be what you once were.

Speaker 1 And having no ability to reckon with that sometimes makes me feel like, where's the authenticity as a person?

Speaker 3 I don't know.

Speaker 4 so that that's my take on it i'm sorry so there's one there's a story that i want to tell that doesn't appear in the piece that i think kind of brings it home but then there's also the bigger kind of message that i think answers your question and the one so when the cameras are off and we're kind of walking around and we're in this park uh near the brooklyn bridge and we're talking about how we want to because the interview has to be on video right and so russell says you know where per his request you're saying it has to be, or is that how you guys do it?

Speaker 4 Well, that was how, because when you do a digital cover, there has to be a video component to it.

Speaker 4 And we talked off camera as well, but a big piece of the interview had to be on camera because you're going to do like video and digital and stuff like that.

Speaker 4 And so we were supposed to talk over by this bridge. And Russ looks at all the producers and camera people.
There's like 20 people there.

Speaker 4 And he's like, we should actually start from over there and we should walk down this

Speaker 4 alleyway together while we're talking. And he's like, he's like, I'm telling you, it's going to add a really nice texture to the piece.
He said, texture.

Speaker 4 And so I looked at him and I was just like, do you like dabble in photography? And again, this is like not

Speaker 4 when the cameras are rolling. And he looks at me like this, like furrows his brow and has this like very serious look in his face.
And he goes, and he goes, I have a fantastic eye. I shot.

Speaker 4 And then he goes, I shot Siara for Vogue. And then you're like, oh, shit.
Like,

Speaker 4 the outside way that he operates informs the, the inside, like how he actually is

Speaker 4 as a real life person. And so when I dug into it, I kept like kind of jabbing at him a little bit, like, you've had bad days.
Like, you've had bad days. What happens to this person?

Speaker 4 And I thought it was the first time that anyone's kind of gotten a good answer out of him.

Speaker 4 And that was that before his, and this, we were speaking right before the 15th anniversary of his dad passing away. And when his dad died, he wrote him a letter.

Speaker 4 Well, as his dad was dying, he wrote him a letter.

Speaker 4 And his dad had this very miracle sort of end of his life where he was in a non-responsive in a coma, came out when his mother was singing to him and was acknowledging the world around him for a little bit, like very kind of like mystical stuff that affected the family deeply.

Speaker 4 But before he died, he had written Russ a letter. basically acknowledging the things that he regretted, the things that he thought he did well and his hopes for Russ in the future.

Speaker 4 And it just cemented to his heart. And he said, like, I know I have to write one of those for my kids one day.
And so what has to be in the letter?

Speaker 4 And some of us can take that as sort of a metaphysical thing. And we can be like, you know, you know, okay, just be nicer to people, but kind of continue on my own path.

Speaker 4 Russell's entire universal ethos is that letter, right? Where it's like, I have to act in every way, in every moment, like that is going to be the moment that's in the letter to my children.

Speaker 4 And when you think about it that way, it makes him seem a little less corny to me. And it just makes him seem like someone who is entirely earnest about his legacy and the legacy of his late father.

Speaker 2 I think, Dan, like you elucidated something that's like, he just seems a little bit detached from my reality and my level of cynicism versus optimism.

Speaker 2 But I will say this about him, if you were to line up the 100 NFL players that cause us the most problems, like Russell Wilson is not one of those people, and there's no stories about that.

Speaker 2 I think he's a little corny for a lot of people's current American taste and style.

Speaker 2 Like, he kind of is a bit of an oddball on that front, but you wrote it really well about how that moment with his dad in the story.

Speaker 2 I hadn't really heard that before, but the gospel scene with the mom.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it seemed like he had a personal,

Speaker 2 he was a religious, devout person before all that, but like he seemed to have like a a break into his reality after that.

Speaker 2 And I can kind of buy into it with the way that you described what happened to him in real life in ways that we never could really gauge or know.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I'll tag it this way.

Speaker 1 And again, check it out because Connor's the type of writer that it'll be very

Speaker 1 warm writing, very relatable, and then he'll drop a passage from the Chinese avant-garde writer, Guffei.

Speaker 2 And one thing he did, Connor in this article, he gains steam because I think when we cover sports,

Speaker 2 there's got to be an area where you describe why we're talking about russell wilson's career but then you like get into more connerish avenues as the thing goes on it's like oh that was a connor or that's great that's like that's the hallmark of a great writer which connor is so you reference guff a

Speaker 1 and um i'll reference someone that's more like in my wheelhouse which is an american author chuck closterman who did a profile on Bono years ago, about 20 years ago now.

Speaker 1 And like the central conceit of it was,

Speaker 1 is Bono for real or is Bono full of shit? And that's kind of how I feel about Russell Wilson at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 Like, and it's, it's that, it's trying to untangle that that I think is at the basis, not just with people on the outside like us.

Speaker 1 I think sometimes like in his own locker room, that has been a part of his legacy. It makes him fun to talk about.
And for a guy that has, it's been.

Speaker 1 A handful of years now since he's been a top player in the league, at least as a producer and a guy that matters in January or whatever.

Speaker 1 The fact that he's still, we still talk about him, there's a bit of a, you know, a personal cult of personality to him that makes him an interesting follow in the league.

Speaker 1 So good job, Connor, and good choice of a profile. Well, thank you.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 And just to kind of backstop what you said, like, you know, listen, we're on the Brooklyn Bridge Promenade, and my thought is that no one's going to give a flying f about this guy. And

Speaker 4 it did look like we were doing something, right? There's photographers, and so there's things happening, but like old women, young children, like people are just coming up to this guy.

Speaker 4 And he's playing catch with them, signing things. And

Speaker 4 there is still very much a draw.

Speaker 3 He's super famous. Yeah.
I mean, he is.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And part of that, the large part of that obviously is having a long and distinguished NFL career, but he's also like very, in a calculated manner, put in the work to be a public figure.
Yes.

Speaker 1 And I don't want to say this in a cynical way about his choice of a spouse, marrying a pop star, Sierra, who at one point you write about how she's in conversation with some NYPD guys about finding good barbecue in New York City.

Speaker 1 Let me know when you find that, by the way.

Speaker 3 I like that part.

Speaker 1 But like, from the choice of spouse to the decisions he makes in the media to doing this profile with you and then going on Fallon, like he is put in the work to be a public figure that people know.

Speaker 1 And it pays off, I guess, in ways big and small for him.

Speaker 1 And maybe even the continuation of his NFL career as a starter, because by positioning himself as still a guy who matters and has never went down a bit, maybe that helps in the perception even within the NFL.

Speaker 1 And he keeps getting starting jobs, even if he doesn't keep them.

Speaker 4 So, the question that I want everyone to just come away from is: is my opinion of Russell Wilson and my the universal my?

Speaker 4 Do I think he's a ham sandwich? Do I think he's a weirdo? Do I think he's calculated? Does that impact my thoughts on his legacy as a player?

Speaker 4 Because I believe he is probably one good NFL season away from being a Hall of Famer. He is also not the kind of player that we talk about in that regard whatsoever.

Speaker 4 And so that's kind of what I wanted to dig up for everybody a little bit.

Speaker 1 Check it out. Thanks, Connor.

Speaker 3 All right.

Speaker 1 It's time to wrap things up.

Speaker 1 We do have, yeah, we have a little housekeeping connected to the last show, correct, Justin?

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 All right, hit it.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 2 I'm sorry, but like we've gone through a precious and beautiful sort of artistic and aesthetic rebrand, and that

Speaker 2 particular song with its inaccurate anchor makes it through to season two. We couldn't have redone that.

Speaker 1 Did you say inaccurate anchor?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I have never acknowledged that FAQs does not mean facts and questions. I'm standing on business there and pushing back against the fake news on that front.

Speaker 2 We've been down the road.

Speaker 1 What do you think FAQs mean?

Speaker 2 Frequently asked questions.

Speaker 1 That's your opinion.

Speaker 2 It is widely held as the correct and only way to handle this, but it's agreed to disagree.

Speaker 1 Well, do you know how much work it would take to re-record the song?

Speaker 2 I guess I... Well, that's your opinion.

Speaker 1 All right. What is the fact in question

Speaker 1 today, Justin?

Speaker 5 We have a minor, very minor, emphasized, very, very minor correction to issue from last podcast. And we actually got a video message to help issue this correction.

Speaker 3 So she's a good idea.

Speaker 1 Right, so within the realm of facts and questions are corrections. So this tracks.

Speaker 1 It's not a big leap to carry the bit. Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 5 Okay, here's the message.

Speaker 9 Hello, Dan, Mark, Connor, Justin, all the guys.

Speaker 9 I am sitting in the parking lot outside of Rams training camp, and I I thought I would take this time as the official female of the group to weigh in on a situation that I'm calling Murielgate.

Speaker 9 Yes, in reference to the female mayor, Muriel Bowser of Washington, D.C. Dan, I regret to inform you of the group's decision.

Speaker 9 We are going to have to strip you of your feminist of the week cover just for this week only.

Speaker 9 You have a lot of what I call Alanis points built up, so you will get back there pretty quickly, I have no doubt. Mark, I know you thought that this meant that you were a shoe-in

Speaker 9 for the cover this week because Dan is not in your way anymore.

Speaker 3 We'll talk.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 here's one thing.

Speaker 2 I did just search the name of Muriel Bowser, and it's

Speaker 2 very clearly a woman.

Speaker 1 Well, in fairness, I want to say

Speaker 1 I take the L on this one, but I didn't hear any of you Knuckleheads Knuckleheads jump in to correct me. So as far as I'm concerned, none of us thought that Miriam.
Well,

Speaker 2 you spoke with assurance and confidence. So I wasn't.

Speaker 1 I didn't really, I just mentioned he a couple of times. I was more focused on the momentum.

Speaker 3 I do remember that moment Bowser was

Speaker 1 more focused on is Bowser half dragon, half turtle, with an insatiable need for the princess. And I happened to drop a couple he's in there.

Speaker 1 But there was plenty of, there was plenty of room for somebody to jump in and correct me. So

Speaker 1 I'll wear it, but I just want to let everyone know that this was a group failure, ultimately.

Speaker 5 Yeah, and I just want to say that when you said he, my brain started going, Muriel, he, is that, that doesn't sound right.

Speaker 5 So when you tossed it to me and said, is the mayor half dragon with an unquenchable thirst for kidnapping a princess? I responded, no, this person is a human. Oh, how brave of you.

Speaker 5 I avoided the gender pronouns because I was so thrown off by what you said.

Speaker 2 Justin, the door was wide open for you to make the show better, but instead, you are taking social points

Speaker 2 from whoever's listening.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 5 thank you. Well, thank you, Jordan.

Speaker 1 And because, and she's right. And I am, I do,

Speaker 1 I will not appeal this judgment within the feminist of the week or feminist of the month or feminist of the year. I'll take this punishment and I'll come back

Speaker 1 a champion at a higher level than ever for the female side of the world. Or equal.

Speaker 1 Absolutely, Mark.

Speaker 3 All right.

Speaker 1 One last thing before we go.

Speaker 1 Mark,

Speaker 1 I regret to inform you that we cannot seem, and I'm not trying, I'm not,

Speaker 1 I am not trying to make this an every episode thing.

Speaker 1 But your team is relentless right now with

Speaker 1 snafus in the public sector. Here Here is the Cleveland Browns

Speaker 1 of some body of water

Speaker 1 in Ohio unveiling an alternate helmet. And then they have a team photographer who's asked

Speaker 1 to take a photo of the helmet. This is, again, a blow-up helmet on a barge in a body of water.
And here's an alternate angle.

Speaker 1 The team photographer steps back, doesn't realize the amount of space he has to work with, and falls right into the water.

Speaker 1 This is all sponsored by Dude Wipes, which, if you're not aware what Dude Wipes is, it's if like toilet paper is not enough to clean up your mess. Which, guys, what is going on with you?

Speaker 1 Um, you have dude wipes. Uh, so dude wipes presents new Browns helmet, man from Browns falls into lake.

Speaker 1 I don't, I mean, I feel like we're entering territories of the dark realm. This might be Mark's chance to light up some incense, but he's not going to do that.
He is an employee of the team at will.

Speaker 1 So, without further ado, we we throw it to you nowhere.

Speaker 10 Good afternoon, and thank you for holding. I have Mark Sessler on the line from Quiet Storm Crisis Management.

Speaker 4 We're patching Mark through right now.

Speaker 1 You there, Mark?

Speaker 2 I am here, Mark Sessler.

Speaker 1 Public statement on the man falling off the barge for the poop wipes unveiling of the Browns helmet.

Speaker 2 I think people are looking at this through a very

Speaker 2 limited lens. Yes,

Speaker 2 let's jab at the team and say, probably let us an expensive piece of equipment that's now at the bottom of a lake, a lake that once caught on fire from a different angle.

Speaker 1 Do we even know if they fished that guy out, by the way? Like, did that guy die?

Speaker 2 We're working on that.

Speaker 2 We've got people on that. I will just tell you this.
Like, it's still summer.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of joy to summer. This brought joy to a lot of people yesterday.
It brought laughs. And, like, if anything,

Speaker 2 that's our goal is to

Speaker 2 make it's the season before the real season and we're proud of that employee. Um, I think what he did was he he made our day better even at our expense.

Speaker 1 See, now finally, I actually think that Mark's earning his money with the Browns. That's the first statement where it's like, okay, this guy is dousing the flames of controversy, not stoking them.

Speaker 1 So, good job, Mark.

Speaker 1 Good job to everybody for supporting this dang program. We'll be back before you know it with a new episode.

Speaker 1 So, until then, do what you must.

Speaker 3 Heed the call.

Speaker 3 Here's one thing you gotta understand. Okay, I've been doing this a long time, long

Speaker 3 time.

Speaker 3 That's right, sir. Not only do I see the forests from them there trees, I also see the grooves in those trees, the knots in those, the chipmunks in those trees, the squirrels, owls.
I see you.

Speaker 3 I see you, Al.

Speaker 3 I see you.

Speaker 3 I see you, Al.

Speaker 3 Here's something else people don't understand. You can sign a plur.

Speaker 3 You can go ahead and sign a plur.

Speaker 3 You can back up the brick truck for a plur.

Speaker 3 You can give him all this guaranteed money he won't play a snap for you.

Speaker 3 Happened to me in 2004. That's right.

Speaker 3 Sam D. Farkin Dude.

Speaker 3 Shit.

Speaker 3 We lost him.

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