NFL Training Camp Storylines that Deserve More Attention

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We belong to something beautiful.

We are back from the weekend and ready to heed the call.

Coming up on today's show, training camps.

What are the storylines that should be getting talk right now and a lot of attention, but aren't?

That's where we step in, Cesi.

Yeah, not unlike a Nancy Drew, we dig deeper to bring you the truth.

There's no stopping at this point.

The season is upon us.

Every time you make a Nancy Drew reference, I continue to be mystified.

Hedonists, assemble.

Heyo, hi and hello.

Heed the call on a Monday.

Dan Hansis here with Mark Sessler.

Second week of training camp.

And I feel like, See, I feel like we're in the swing now.

I feel like we've knocked off the rush just like the teams.

And now,

here comes some good football podcasting.

It's real business now.

I think that in that first week of training camp, more subconsciously than as an announcement by a person that like I'm still in my summer break and yet football is kind of non-pad oriented started and like I've got an eye on it, but I still want to waltz around in my swim gear.

This week feels different.

It feels like now either you're left behind or you're plugged in.

You have to choose one of two doors.

I never saw the sess dog as a waltz around in a swim gear type of guy.

But

I like the image.

I like the mental image.

Speaking of of the image, I like your background as well.

You've felt, you've heeded the call.

You've seen the pressure being mounted after

Graver imported the mahogany from India, and then I redid my background.

And now here you are with some fresh lighting and

it's true to the Mark's style, your little left of center.

And look at that, that blouse, too.

Unbelievable look for Mark today.

A blouse.

I'm not sure I'd call it that, but that's fair enough.

Yeah, if you're listening to this in an audio format, this is completely meaningless to you.

In terms of, I will say this,

I sensed a week ago that the Q rating around my background was sinking quickly.

And I will, it brings a memory to me that when I was a teenager on a family trip and got into some trouble with my cousin, that my father pulled me out of a restaurant by the water and sort of talked to me about peer pressure and not caving into peer pressure.

In this case, I completely caved into peer pressure based on public perception and the fact that I was just hearing a lot of noise by this, but I'm glad I did it.

In this case, I'm glad I did it.

I'm glad.

That was maybe more commentary than you were asking for.

Yeah, no, and shout out to Ed Sessler for teaching you lessons that didn't stick with you as an adult.

And if you do want to see the visual, hey, by the way, we put in a lot of work on the video version of this show on YouTube.

So head over there, check us out if you're an audio listener, Hit us up with a

subscribe button tap, and that will do wonders for the program.

Let's bring in Connor Orr now, as we do often on this their program.

What's up, Con man?

I'm a little bit disappointed in Mark because around the time that you were attacking his background, you had mentioned that

I failed to dress nice for the program.

And so I

put it that way, but yeah, I don't know.

I doubled down with one of my favorite, uh, favorite T's, uh, the Wonder Years.

And I've decided to stay in my lane and not improve.

And that is my prerogative.

So, no, and that's, and I like that.

You're, that's you, that's who you are, and we would never want to change you.

Mark, we want to change you, we want to keep exactly as you are.

And Connor is

what I truly want to be on the inside.

So it's, it's very, very confused.

Uh, Connor, you have been covering professional football for many years now, and I wonder if you feel the same way as that now we're kind of really in the mix of things.

And for me, I start to, once we really get into training camp, start zeroing in a little bit more on certain teams that catch my attention in ways good and bad.

So before we get into the news today, which we will get you all caught up in everything that's happened in the last few days since we last

had you here, Hedonis,

let's talk about some storylines that are out there, Con,

that con.

I don't know about that.

It's like con man.

Or con man sounds con.

Okay.

That are the storylines that are out there that are getting written up, you know, by the beat reporters, but maybe aren't catching as much national attention or deserve in general to be focused on in a more close light here at this stage of training camp.

Why don't you get us going, Connor?

Con.

So

this is dual purpose.

This is something that I'm very interested in and also something something that I'm trying to incept upon my big money fantasy football co-manager because I don't think he's on board with this.

But

Christian McCaffrey is back to the same practice plan that he was two years ago.

This is prior to all the Achilles issues.

And it's being labeled right now by a lot of the reporters as, oh, there's two rest days already in camp.

But if you actually take the magnifying glass and you zero in a little bit, Kyle Shanahan's talked about this.

It's basically the same rest regiment that he was on two years ago before he was a complete and total force that transformed that offense.

Healthy Christian McCaffrey is a game changer for the NFL.

Again, hope my fantasy co-manager is listening here.

We could probably get him at like pick 10 if we're sitting there and probably should do that.

And I think that it does nothing to diminish my big picture view of the 49ers there.

But I think that's a huge deal.

There have been some glowing reports of McCaffrey's kind of just speed, and that there is suggesting that he's back.

Like, that would be exciting.

Dan, I know you have the number one pick in your fantasy draft.

I believe you've fallen for this in the past, of the McCaffrey.

Yeah, you can't do that.

That's good memory, Mark, actually, because anybody that remembers any subplot about someone else's fantasy team,

that's really showing a level of paying attention to your business partner that I really

makes me feel like you're a friend first.

Well, you're well.

Business partner second.

I traded for McCaffrey last year

deep into his rehab ahead of his return last season, and that didn't work out because he came back from what was it called, bilateral Achilles tendinitis last season.

And then he comes back like week 10 or 11 and it isn't himself, and then goes down with a PCL sprain on Sunday night football, and he's done for the year.

So it was a disaster a year.

But to Connor, your point, like

the year before,

over 2,000 total yards, 21 touchdowns.

And so, like, that is the best you can get.

And then last year was kind of the worst you can get.

I wonder what the 49ers internally

expect out of McCaffrey.

Because, of course,

it's a trope.

We talked about the nine.

We talked about this exact moment on the calendar around the 49ers last November.

Just saying, like, oh, just wait until next late July.

And everything coming out of 49ers camp is how everyone is feeling so so great.

And last year was tough, and we played so many playoff games.

We were never

healthy, but look how healthy we are now.

We're back to ourselves.

So, this is all expected.

The only thing I'll say, Connor, is like, because it was so expected, of course, this was going to be the story around him.

Is that guy actually coming back?

Is he still

alive?

Is that version of him still alive at age 29?

I have my doubts based on the history of the position, but also this dude is a special player.

So

there's a couple options here.

Option one is that they are significantly over-believing in Christian McCaffrey and leaving themselves with a massive blind spot, which is possible.

Option two is the fact that they know he's healthy because they cut Jordan or they got rid of Jordan Mason.

They didn't take a replacement until the fifth round of this year's draft, and it was a really good running back class.

And the third option here is wait and see how he handles the rest, and we'll clean up on running backs that we have a good idea that will be good fit in our system once people start cutting guys after the first two preseason games.

And those are all options on the table, but the fact that they have not really backstopped themselves in the draft tells me that

they're legitimately believing that he's actually healthy.

They really like Garendo, I would think.

Isaac Garendo, who has all the tools in the world, and he looked like a guy who might step in and be a monster for them last year.

And then he got hurt.

Everybody got hurt on the 49ers last year, but that running back room was symbolic of the entire team.

Basically, needing a year to get a blow and get back into it.

The Niners are a very interesting team.

I will stay in the

NFC West with mine.

You know, the Stafford situation with the Rams.

Here's an update over the weekend.

from Sean McVay.

And just to give a little bit of background, Matthew Stafford, age 37,

has been dealing with a stiff back.

He's had back issues in the past.

And initially,

it was kind of put out there by the team that this is just something.

We're taking it easy.

We expect him to phase back into activities.

But the tone of that shifted a little bit over the weekend.

Let's listen in.

So you don't anticipate that he will practice at all next week?

No, do not anticipate that.

But I don't have any more concerns.

You know, the goal in mind is Houston, and I do think that this is the best plan for him.

and You know wanted to let you guys know about that

it's just I mean

If you had hoped and expected that he would not be

so I'm giving you the information that I know it does not worry me You know what I probably should have done is is say we're taking it a week at a time But I don't have any reason to be concerned based on the information that's been given

and with that being said you know I don't think we can be smart enough with somebody like Matthew and I think it's best for him best for our football team.

And, you know, and that's kind of the plan that we'll have moving forward.

All right.

So now it's week to week.

And I think that's an important distinction.

And

so we'll see where things end up on this.

But, you know, the Rams obviously weighed these things internally over the offseason when there was all that talk about maybe a move being made to send him in a trade out of town.

And predictably, there's now some takes around this.

Oh, well, the Rams kind of botched this one potentially.

Better to get out a year too soon than a year too late and all that.

I get why the Rams made this decision.

It was a bad quarterback draft class, as we know.

And they have otherwise a roster that they took a nice leap last year with the defense

taking a step up,

specifically the pass rush and those players that they brought in with Jared Verse leading the way, the defensive rookie of the year.

And now you bring in Devontae Adams.

You keep some of the other older offensive vets, and it's like, let's make a push here.

Remember, they won the division at 10 and 7, won a playoff game upsetting uh the lions and then nearly knocked off the eventual world champion eagles so bringing stafford back makes sense but there's inherent risk here obviously and the anything back scares me this is a guy with a history of back issues and i uh reached out to jordan rodrigue our friend um

about this and she now works in a different capacity for the athletic and congratulations to her she's a a national senior national writer

for the athletic.

I think I might have botched that title, and she's going to zing me in text, but senior national writer sounds good.

Justin, help me out with that.

But she's no longer on the Rams B, but she's still close to the team and covers all matters NFL related.

So she said August 5th is the day that she's walking,

she is watching for because that is when they have joint practices with the Cowboys.

And if he's not throwing by then,

Jordan says she's starting to have 2022 flashbacks, which was the year where he had the elbow soreness, as you recall.

And he, you know, started the season, wasn't the same dude, and then eventually went down with a bunch of injuries.

And it was kind of a washout season for Stafford.

So she says, keep an eye on that date, and that's next week.

So we'll see where he is then.

Justin.

Senior NFL writer for the athletic.

That's good.

Nailed it.

Give her a little trumpet on that.

Senior NFL writer Jordan Rodrigue, who stripped me of my feminists of the week

cover.

Jesus.

12 trumpeters.

Do it with that one, huh?

That's for when she's named like editor-in-chief.

Let's sing a few trumpets away there.

That's the next promotion.

We kind of jumped the gun.

And now we have to somehow beat that when Jordan continues her ascent in the sports media world.

Anyway, so keep an eye on August 5th.

I agree with Jordan, but concerning, Mark, concerning for the old man QB.

You know, there were like these multiple offseasons in a row to go back to what you talked about, maybe moving Stafford and going full rebuild.

Like the Rams almost did too good of a job of the rebuild.

They got good again too quick almost.

And so Stafford never really made sense at any point to really move on from.

But this is a quarterback that's had to be monitored in terms of rest and being in and out of the lineup and injuries at this point in this age, back injury, really concern me.

This is the kind of stuff that I think, if you're the coaching staff, like you're being asked specifics and you don't know.

You maybe don't know because like it all depends on like the back injury versus when you can really monitor like a different body part.

To me, just feels wild.

And then it's like, what happens when Matthew Stafford starts

dealing with like massive beams and like six foot five edge rushers coming at him 45 miles an hour.

It's like, this is a Super Bowl potential team.

And you're hoping your quarterback, like Dennis Quaid in any given Sunday, can just hang around.

I've two thoughts here.

One is that Sean McVay's beard growth kind of says it all for me.

Like he is normally tight, five o'clock shadow, and there's this sort of sub-wolverine thing coming through his jowls and his cheeks, like very unkempt, not quite like him.

And so is he worried enough about this that he is not spending the time to personal groom.

But the second part of that is

that if you talk to Rams coaches, they will always say that one of the things that doesn't get talked enough about with Matthew Stafford is his athleticism.

And there's a lot of very subtly athletic things that he has to do in the backfield, even on a handoff or in the pocket to make that offense flow.

So if you can't overcome something that, you know, if you need more help than Papa Torderall here, I think that we're in a little bit of a dark space.

Yeah, and he's the same age or thereabouts.

He might be a little bit older actually than Kirk Cousins.

And what do we hear about Cousins last year?

One of his big problems in his stinker of a season with the Falcons before he got benched was because of the Achilles injury and the athleticism that he lost, he was

trouble kind of getting into the offense, moving quick enough to get into his drop back, be where he needed to be, you know, work the play action game effectively.

Stafford's a guy, like, he's got to be able to move.

Like,

in general, he's he's part of a dying breed, right?

We talk about the last movie stars, Mark, like DiCaprio and Pitt, and like, you know, the last of the old drop back slingers, gunslingers.

It feels like Stafford has to maintain some semblance of athleticism, or he's going to be a statue back there.

There's a lot of veterans on that offensive line.

I think the Rams will move on after this.

I think the Rams

have the highest variance just about in the NFL right now of what they can be, which is NFC title game to me right there, or,

you know, double-digit lost season.

Jimmy Garoppolo, by the way, is the primary backup there.

All right, one more.

Go ahead, Sussie.

So if you look at the journey of the Kyle Shanahan-led Niners, I think one of the most impressive things that they've done is Shanahan having to survive so many lost coordinators.

Year after year, they're purged.

We saw this with the Patriots, too.

And the team I'm focused on right now is the Detroit Lions because the Detroit Lions grew up very quickly.

And they became an NFC, I call them a power, a Super Bowl one or two tiered Super Bowl contender in that conference.

You've got to go do it.

with a team that now loses Ben Johnson, who had about 4,000 think pieces written about him over the last year and a half, and without Aaron Glenn.

And Ben Johnson already, we understand, would do things each week on a weekly basis with Jared Goff and with the rest of his players that would dazzle and kind of bring that offense to a completely different level under Dan Campbell as head coach.

Aaron Glenn already in New York, they're talking about his Jets practices as some of the more physical Jets practices they've seen in eons.

Like it's a culture change, and he's that kind of guy to match with the scientist Ben johnson level coordinator you move you lose them both and my concern is like not that dan campbell can't oversee this and that they're not a good organization they are but johnny morton comes in to run the offense kelvin shepherd comes in to run the defense i'm always concerned when a coordinator especially on the offense at the nfl level has never really called plays in what would be five to six hundred crazy situations a week where you it's not even called a right play.

It's like you have to do it immensely quickly and you've got to communicate it well.

There are so many coordinators that have talked about bullets flying for the first time and you are just learning, you are learning on the job.

And so there's that.

There's the fact that these were two very special coaches that left.

Like we have no idea if Morton and Shepard can be those guys.

Like, I mean, I like that they're coming from an in-house culture and system where they're not changing things entirely.

But if you have someone like Ben Johnson that adds that special little icing and cherry on top each week, and there's something special about him, he goes to your division rival and does the same thing there.

You're in what I would call the best division in football, and you're hoping this works.

I believe it can because this is a team that I think under Campbell is not going to change who they are.

But it's just like you're sitting here in the Super Bowl window with two massive on-staff variables.

And, you know, we're not going to find out at the Hall of Fame game on Thursday if this works or not.

But we will, pretty early in the season, see, is this the same Lions offense?

Can it be?

Or is there a, is it going to take time to adjust under new leadership?

Ben Johnson, too.

People always talk about, well, the system remains in place.

And so, okay, the whatever, the quarterbacks coach is usually the next guy in line that can take over as offensive coordinator and he can learn the system.

With the Lions, there is no system.

It was a series of designer play calls that Ben Johnson took into like a locked room on Monday and emerged on Thursday with this golden tablet and said, Here's the game plan.

And everybody else is like, Oh,

cool.

Like, how'd that, how'd you come up with that?

And so there is no succession that is possible in terms of that.

And so you have to recreate something that is literally like, it's just like, you know, I don't know, someone trying to be like, hey, rewrite Dostoevsky, you know, and come in here and just be as creative as one of the greatest writers in the history of the world.

And the next guy's got to be like, okay, cool.

There is no patriot system.

There is no

framework from which the new Lions coach can operate.

He's got to do that from scratch.

And that's going to be an incredibly difficult ask.

Yeah, the pessimistic viewpoint of this.

And Lions fans, look away and cover your ears, but the pessimistic viewpoint on all this is last year was the year.

That was was the setup for them where they had the entire coaching staff in place.

They had

Jared Goff with this offense.

And the quarterback and the OC were in lockstep.

You saw that on the quarterback series on Netflix,

that they just had a great vibe.

Dan Campbell

and Aaron Glenn knew exactly what kind of style they wanted to play in.

And even though they were absolutely massacred by injuries on the defensive side of the ball, they found ways to make it happen.

Look at that division and first round by clinching victory on the regular season finale against the Packers, where that was the job that got Aaron Glenn this Jets job,

the defensive scheme.

And then it's all in front of them.

And they get the bye week and then they flatline against the Rams in the playoffs.

And now they lose the offensive architect and they lose Glenn.

And it's just like,

okay, good luck.

And I'll just, I'll button it up with this, Mark.

You said, you know, know, will it be the same Lions offense?

We're going to see.

I don't, I think it's going to take time at the very least.

It's going to be a work in progress.

And I look at their schedule at Packers, Home Bears, at Ravens.

That's where those teams, good for them.

That's when you want to catch this Lions team in transition.

And I'm wondering, coming off what was their season last year, 15-2,

if this season's going to have a little more

adversity, especially in the first six weeks or so.

And it won't mean that they're not a good team or a Super Bowl contender, but they had everything in structure last year, and now they have to make it happen again.

So let's see if Morton is the right guy.

For some reason, I'm less worried about the defense because I think the defense is going to be better just because they're getting their pieces back.

Aiden Hutchinson.

Like 22 players back.

Yeah, people are raving about how great Hutchinson looks.

But yes, Jared Goff, are we going to get that version of Goff they've got in the last two years or is the offense going to come down a little bit with the architect Goff?

Gravy?

Just to add to that point, I know we've all watched or been watching quarterback.

We're going to talk about it on an upcoming show at some point, I promise.

Something that stood out to me in quarterback was the connection that Jared Goff and Ben Johnson had in that whole little scene where Jared Goff's like, man, sometimes I'm hoping that Ben calls this play and then he gets that call in his ear and it's exactly what he was hoping for because he and Johnson were so synced up.

How long does that kind of chemistry take, even if Goff, you know, is playing in an okay level and this new guy is Colin plays okay?

Like, how long does that connection take to sync up?

That's another underrated part of this.

Yeah, that game where he was like, what, 18 for 18 while his wife was cheering him on from the stands?

I mean, phenomenal.

Yeah.

The wife, yes.

Well, no, she was in that quarterback series, which is excellent from what I'm saying.

The wife was a very controversial figure in my house.

I was back east on the Jersey Shore

watching the the show and she was catching some fire from different women in my home

at the time.

And I was like, you leave her alone.

Yeah, you leave Jared Goff's wife alone.

She's perfect and I won't want anything to change about her.

Very controversial figure.

You can see why.

You leave her alone.

What was her name again?

Jared.

Jared Goff's wife.

Let me say, Jared Goff's wife.

Mrs.

Jared.

That's what I call her.

Kristen.

You leave Kristen alone.

All right.

It's getting weird.

This is going to get you back on the cover of that magazine, though.

Yeah, well, it's going to help.

It can't hurt.

Let's take a break.

And when we get back, we'll get caught up on some news.

Pedonist, if you love this show, you got to go visit our Patreon.

Everything's happening over there.

Very active.

We've got a new Rolling Thunder this week with Jason Zumwald and I talking about one of our favorite authors.

Later this month, it came from the subreddit, Dan's New Hit Show.

And every Friday our Friday fun show with Connor and Justin the whole gang you don't want to miss it patreon.com slash heed the call we'll see you there

all right we are back heed let's do some news

it wasn't reported I stated it three days ago gosh your own little internet shows are driving me crazy listen bonix if you were here two days ago you would have heard me say he spent some time with breeze so it was reported reported.

Keep going.

How is it

different?

No,

just what I said three days ago.

Whoa.

Oh, no.

Justin.

You did it again, Justin.

Where is the news drop on your little iPad there?

And why?

What's with the sausage fingers over there?

Today I forgot which, but they're side by side.

And one's like a teal blue and one's like a royal blue.

And I clicked the teal blue, which obviously.

What what about a little piece of tape with like a little paper underneath it that says like news ND news drop, you know.

Yeah, I actually have like the display on my computer that tells me which color corresponds to which.

Okay, I neglected to look at that.

So,

and then for those that maybe missed the last episode, here's a replay of Justin's Thursday morning attempt to hit the news drop.

I mean,

I mean,

and now we'll flash flash back to just seconds ago this attempt

whoa

oh no Justin you did it again Justin

So you could look at it as listen Ceci we could look at it as progress old sausage fingers didn't hit the triple miss drop there it was just one this time I I

you know, you just see how hard Justin works to evolve and grow the show all the time.

I'm just going going to have to label it as progress.

Yes, I don't, I don't, I am concerned about the fact that we're a year plus into the show and that occurred.

But if I were sitting there with your, as Dan calls it, your little iPad, we would be in shambles.

So I appreciate the overall effort.

It's like the Rams being like, hey, listen.

You know, we had Stafford was in traction last week, and now he's moving around with a walker.

So progress.

All right, let's get into it.

This Christian Wilkins thing, man, free agency.

I'll tell you what, you shell out the big bucks and free agency, but how often is the return on investment not what you want?

And is there a better example, not much, than defensive tackle Christian Wilkins of what can go wrong?

He signs a big money deal last

free agency season, leaves the Dolphins for the Raiders, plays the first, I believe, five weeks of the season before going down with a foot injury.

And now the Raiders, this happened late last week, cut Wilkins and then withhold his money that was owed, citing that he was not rehabbing the injury the way the team was asking him to, which obviously now triggers a big fight and the union getting involved.

Josina Anderson reported that the release may have actually been triggered over a, quote, incident with a teammate.

Hmm, interesting.

And Rapsheet reports that there there's uncertainty about Wilkins and his health, but he's a wanted man, quote unquote.

So, yeah, it's kind of just a buyer beware, I guess, for teams out there.

A guy that obviously things blew up, and maybe if he does get healthy, you get a real fearsome defensive lineman with something to prove in 25.

It's a risky one, but one that I think a team will take the chance on Wilkins.

There's someone out there.

This literally just came out, and so the incident, adam shafter actually just detailed this nice

he playfully kissed a teammate on the head and that teammate uh

uh they say that that player quote took offense to it and that's what everybody has been dancing around

wait the nfl rocks it's the best

this is the best wait a second wait a second okay all right

so the foot thing is still a thing, right?

The rehab, that's a real thing?

It's real.

Or is that?

And so he kisses a teammate on the head, and it leads to what?

Some type of locker room explosion?

And they have to get him out of there?

Are we.

Here's the thing.

I guess it depends what kind of kiss it is.

I mean, what kind of kiss are we talking?

Is it a wet one or is it a peck?

I mean, if you, like, I have, with a lot of my good friends, you know, you bring them in and like you almost put them in like a noogie position.

Right, and then you even mouthkiss them.

That's what, that's a classic Pokénonose Pennsylvania move, Amish Country.

Little mouth kiss of my buddies.

I get that.

I think that there's

Christian Wilkins has been complained about before for what you would call inappropriate touching.

Inappropriate.

I didn't know that.

Wait, what is this?

You got to cite an incident then, Mark, if you're going to say that.

Well, no, I mean, it's

so John Feliciano, the retired O-lineman,

saw the tweet where they basically said that something very weird led to this.

And that's what, you know, Shepherd's pointing to.

But Feliciano retweeted it and said, brother always been a little freaky.

And I just saw that.

Can you cut that?

That's got to be a drop graver for future use.

It'll do.

Also, there's a tweet circulating on the timeline of Christian Wilkins like putting his fingers very close to another player's rear end

at the end of a play.

There's some in the words of college Feliciano freaky stuff going on.

Yeah, that was at Clemson.

Brother always been a little freaky.

But okay, so a brother can be a little freaky, but that's not grounds to try to get out of your contract.

So

this is going to be a good one because it's going to play out with

multiple millions of dollars on the line.

Uh, here we might get some more dirt here.

Well, the NFL PA is going after it, too.

Well, but at the time where their leadership is in a complete black hole and a tailspin, and let me tell you this: if the Raiders end up winning this battle and being able to withhold a good amount of money for a player not rehabbing properly, the precedent that this sets, do you know how many players don't rehab properly in the NFL?

Like 90% of them, you you know, especially if the team outlines a process for them.

How many players actually come back and they're like, hey, did you do all the exercises that we asked you to do?

A lot of these guys don't do it.

And so, if that, man, this is the worst time for the NFL PA to be in complete shambles.

And maybe the Raiders, they know that and they're thinking about this.

Okay, we don't want this guy around.

He's a locker room issue.

Just licking Brother.

Brother's a little bit freaky.

He's a locker room issue.

So we're going to, we have Byron's remorse on a high level here.

Also, he's coming off that foot injury and his, he's been a little annoyed.

I'm gonna try to like red string this.

We've been annoyed by the rehab process with him.

He's just not working with us.

And I think he thinks he's got a free ride financially, so he doesn't have to follow our rules.

So let's get rid of him.

And while we're here, the union's all up right now.

Right.

He's touching this guy's head.

Everybody hates him.

Let's try to get our money back.

Hey, listen, it might seem a little ruthless and unfair to Wilkins, certainly Wilkins friends, family, and dependents, But

the Raiders probably have a strat here, as my boys say with their gaming.

And let's see if it works.

I mean,

Wilkins is not a loser here in the sense that he's already been paid $50 million to appear in five games.

Yeah, well, okay.

It's kind of for me, it's like when we go back to like the Raiders won free agency.

Like, I don't want to hear these things because take me in a time machine 900 days later and I'll tell you who won free agency.

But message received.

Message received, Mark.

I will keep my hands away from your buttocks moving forward.

Sure.

That would be appreciated.

Kirk Cousins, I think, is the only guy from the top like 12 contracts that was signed that year that's still with the team that he signed with.

I'll do it.

Who is the GM?

I think he recently passed away, the old Packers

team architect.

Ted Thompson.

Wasn't he famous for like they don't, they're not signing anybody.

Yes.

I'm just not doing it.

Yeah.

I'm not doing it.

I didn't participate as much.

That's me.

That's what I'm doing.

If I'm a GM, it's like this whole free agency thing, I'm not doing it.

Got people touching people and kissing people on the head.

I don't want

avoid.

I'm out.

Going full Thompson.

All right.

Anyway,

unhappy players.

There are more.

Terry McLaurin.

He did report to Commander's Camp,

but he has now been placed on the pup list with an ankle injury.

So this looks like a classic hold-in as McLaurin looks to get paid

in commensurate with his abilities,

which are high, and he is vital to the commanders taking the next step, Mark.

So this feels like a figure it out, commanders, and get your dude happy.

For the time being, let's just hope that this pup trip is not anything real and it's just part of basic bargaining.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out down the road that it's the most unlegitimate ankle injury in sports at the moment.

I mean, I think if you look at this new regime, things have been really smooth.

Washington's been one of the best stories.

Adam Peters is a really good young GM.

This has been one of the weird, sort of messier little sideshows.

Like, this has not gotten done well.

And, like, McLaurin's been visibly upset.

This is the guy that, like, played with 82 non-functioning quarterbacks and still just kept posting a thousand-yard seasons.

Like, you've got your pieces in place.

Like,

I think it's like they're looking at the wide receiver market and saying, we love you, Terry, but like, you're not up here.

You're somewhere a little bit lower, and it's really hard to tear some of these pages.

I kind of disagree.

Like, if Terry's agent's like, no, we are up here, and I think Terry is, but I think

he finally got into stability at quarterback, and you saw him just be, especially in the back half of that season, as Daniels took off, McLaren became, I think, a top five-level receiver.

I don't know how much we have to worry about this because I don't think it's a big headache for,

well, maybe it's a headache for the team, but I don't think it's a major subplot, but it's worth bringing up.

Connor, anything to add here?

If you're a wide receiver, you want to tie your boat to the Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase contracts.

And regardless of whether you beat them or match them, you do want to get paid more than you currently do.

I think that the Garrett Wilson deal personally helps the commanders a little bit because that's how we saw the market settle a little bit and we stopped this game of leapfrog.

So I think something will get done.

But just on the whole, a hold-in for

a person who genuinely enjoyed living in a like a house of people in college and just being the one to annoy the shit out of everybody.

That sounds like a dream scenario for me where your job is just to make everyone so uncomfortable that they hand you like $30 million.

And that, to me, would just be my complete dream.

So

don't.

Don't just stop believing, bro.

Yeah.

You might find that leverage down the line in your career in some ways.

Maybe with this program.

I mean, I'll just send Mark into the negotiating room with you and you guys can hammer something out.

Seamless, seamless.

Before we get into some quarterback updates from training camps around the league, a brief break to hear from an important sponsor of the show, a longtime sponsor.

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in other news.

In other news, quarterback news.

Colts quarterback Anthony Richardson back working with the starters at Colts Camp.

Daniel Jones is with the twos.

That per James Boyd, the Colts athletic writer.

So, you know, does that change anything,

Conman, about where you come down on this quarterback room?

Do you think that

who do you think starts more games this year, Jones or Richardson?

Let's do a little prediction right now on July 28th.

I think it's probably Jones, assuming that his body holds up and assuming that if he tries to leave the pocket, that he doesn't get smashed into a million pieces.

I just think we've tried so many times, and we're even back to that spot now where we completely dumb ourselves down.

What does the Buddha call it?

The beginner's mind.

But

in this sense, it's a terrible idea where we're just like, wow, look at him throw off-platform.

And it's like, yeah, this shit doesn't work in September.

It just, it looks really neat when we're wearing shorts.

And then it just looks god-awful by the time that

the actual games roll around.

So I would say Shane Steichen can't, he's not going to be that patient.

I mean, his job is on the line at this point, and so is Chris Ballard's and everybody else.

It's like, you got to win games, and Daniel Jones is going to be your guy.

I think if you remove the Cleveland Browns from the conversation,

I cannot think of a quarterback room featuring two people who are more skilled at losing their job.

So I could see this going back and forth.

Steichen very annoyed.

I, for one, and this is a selfish thing because of the...

Get your season tickets right now, Colts fans.

Well, I mean, it's a frustrating situation, but it's like

what I am not longing for is another four plus months of Anthony Richardson discourse.

As we've discussed on this show, it's like I kind of just need a little bit of Daniel Jones for a couple of months.

Yeah, I think we were calling that out in real time

last fall.

That the Richardson, the reflexive defensiveness around him as a player was odd to us, and he had absolutely earned his spot on the bench.

And all the question marks and doubts about his ability to be a long-term passer, despite his draft stock and his supreme athleticism, it feels like the football cognizante

has quietly backed off that strident-ness that they had last year.

So, good job, guys.

Thank you for joining us in the realm of reality and

good takedom.

You know, Connor, like, welcome.

You're welcome here anytime.

And let's put this in a language that they can all understand, okay?

Anthony Richardson, and this was a tweet from Jacob Gibbs, and I framed it so that I could have it in my office all the time, was unrivaled for the worst short accuracy from a clean pocket in the NFL in 2024.

Pass attempts, 36th.

Percentage of throws targeting first read, highly accurate throw percentage, 42nd.

Catchable ball percentage, 42nd.

Percentage of throws off target, 40 second.

Like, motherfuckers.

You know, sometimes what happens on the field is like,

we don't have to, you know, I don't know, whatever.

Hey, Connor, and you're, you're hitting on one side of this argument.

The other side of it is just as sturdy, where he pulled himself out of a damn game in the middle of the game because he was tired

and lost the entire locker room.

Oh, and then it's like the, everybody's like, oh, the tastemakers on social media.

Oh, God, Shane Steigen.

How dare you?

How dare you doubt the mighty Tony Richardson?

It's like, what?

The least accurate quarterback we've ever seen who literally came out of a game in the middle of the game because he was fing tired.

Oh, he deserves all the runway that any player has ever had.

Oh,

shame on you for doubting Tony Richardson.

Welcome back to reality.

And, you know, a little apology would be in line as well.

If anyone's out there, you know what I mean?

Don't hold your breath.

We don't need an apology.

I just enjoy the sound of them having to eat that whole bucket of sausage all offseason, man, because that is what they deserve.

Jom, chom, chom, chom, chomp.

All right, that's it.

Let's move on.

Enough patting ourselves on the back.

But it felt good.

The old Barry Horowitz, right on the back.

Jameis Winston, he's funny.

He's fine.

I mean, in the New York media, there's a lot of talk out there about how amazing it is to have Jameis Winston on your team and much, how much better he makes a quarterback room, which is all cool.

Like, again, I don't want to sound overly cynical or whatever, but it's like, how many successful teams has Jameis Winston been on in his NFL career?

I mean, I'll wait for it.

You can keep waiting.

Am I missing one?

Anyway, but he's there.

And for the beat reporters, it's great.

And I get that because he's good copy

and fun on a dais.

Here he is when asked about Jackson Dart entering to score a touchdown during Sunday's practice after Winston, I guess, took them into scoring position.

Here is Winston.

Man, you know, I'm used to it.

You know, if you remember in New Orleans, Taysom Hill, I used to drive the team all the way down the field, and Taysom Hills used to come in and run quarterback power and score a touchdown.

So I was like, hey, like, Jackson, it's Taysom Hill.

You know,

Taysom from Idaho, but Jackson from Utah.

I was like, it's that Utah connection.

Like, every time I have a good drive, like, they're going to take me out and put a kid from Utah in to come score a touchdown.

It's a fair point.

It's fair.

He's being good sport about it.

I would be like, can you imagine also like pre-TNC, Connor, as an NFL quarterback, taking a team into the red zone and then getting pulled and letting someone else score?

Imagine pre-TNC, Connor.

Can you imagine?

I want to just push back slightly on the idea that, because

this happened a lot of years when I would cover teams and then there'd be an outsized character that would come in and everyone would be like, oh, you must love that.

It's great copy.

So when that happens and he says that, it's like, okay, Jameis is like, oh, some white guy is going to come in and power in a touchdown every time I drive the team down the field.

That's it.

There's no, that's the end of the story.

Like, and you go back to the, to your desk to write, and you're like, oh, this is great.

And then you transcribe it.

And then you're like, well, that's it.

There's no other idea there.

It's just what am I to add to this?

Yeah, what am I to add to this?

And so, okay, post like a hundred words of just like, he just said something else wacky today.

And, you know, day by day, you just die a little bit more inside.

Is he definitely on this team come September?

I kind of feel like he's a candidate to wind up somewhere else if there's some sort of catastrophe on another team.

I mean, yeah, I think the Giants like, obviously, like having them in that room, but if I guess an opportunity presented itself, for sure, yeah, I could see that.

Um,

Jim Harbaugh

this weekend.

Um, funny Jim Harbaugh story.

So I live in the town where the Chargers team facility is.

And I was leaving the house on Saturday afternoon with my family.

And I saw my neighbor on the corner, who's a listener to the show.

So, Andrew, if you're listening, what up?

I saw him posing in front of his house wearing a Justin Herbert jersey.

And then his young son was also in Chargers powder blue.

And I was like, what is going on over there?

I've never seen them in Chargers gear.

And he's posing with like a man that looked like a, you know, a middle-aged or older man.

And I'm like, I literally walked up to see if Jim Harbaugh was on my street posing for a photo.

It wasn't.

It was his father-in-law,

Dan, who I quite like.

So it was good to catch up with Dan and Andrew.

But

Jim Harbaugh was almost down my street, at least for my imagination, earlier,

two days ago.

That's important news for everyone.

Yeah, you almost could have maybe not walked up the street and just

stuck to that belief.

Right.

Thank you for saying that because you could also have said, Mark, just now, you could have almost not told that story at all.

Well,

you know,

I appreciate your kindness there.

Anyway, Jim Harbo was not, he was in my town.

He wasn't on my street.

And here he is talking about

his boy toy, Justin Herbert.

This is from the heart.

This is the truth.

Justin Herbert's biggest weakness is

all of those that he's counting on on offense, coaches, offensive line, playmakers, receivers, running backs,

to get up to his level.

I wake up every day to try to get to his level.

So if you put us as the number one duel, I mean, it's 99, 90, 90, Justin, 10 me.

I think we have reached a certain portion of the football following world.

A little bit of

exhaustion of being told how special Herbert is.

And

my take on Justin Herbert in 2025 is: I do believe there's another level to him still, even as what he's entering this fifth season or sixth season now in the NFL.

But I also now

these type of quotes, especially Mark from Harbaugh, who's famous for pumping up his QBs.

He's done it all throughout his career, wherever he's went.

A little bit of a grain of salt with the Justin herbert hero worship uh because quite frankly we haven't seen enough elite play to back up the talk that he is one of the great ones still needs to be in yeah i mean harbaugh specialized in quotes of this nature um dating back to the minute he got to the chargers facility starting as coach i mean this is what he does um i would say if we get three or four because you're right this is not an anthony richardson situation but herbert obviously like a lightning rod for certain analysts who can't let it it go no matter what he actually does.

I think he can, I think it's another level to him just because of the, he's massive, he's got all the skills, like why not?

He's been on some disorganized Chargers teams.

But if you get three or four months into this season under Harbaugh, on a Chargers team, people believe could be like, we could win a couple playoff games,

then when is it happening?

It's like, at some point, I'm allowed to be like, I'll show it to me, and otherwise I don't need to talk about it.

Connor, this is where I see Justin Herbert right now.

You want Justin Herbert as your quarterback.

He's he is a very, very good quarterback.

And we talked about the Dalton line last month.

He is on the right side of the Dalton line.

But maybe is this the year?

And it's hard to just like arbitrarily say this is the year where we decide one way or the other on him.

Like, is he a...

Does he have top five potential as a quarterback or is he just a classic, you know, number nine through 13 territory guy, which is perfectly fine,

but not necessarily someone that you speak C poems about the way his head coach does.

I do feel like there's something about this year that we've kind of been building toward really what is Justin Herbert.

I put a lot of stock into this year with Harbaugh, put it that way.

I just want us to define the parameters because he's been there the whole time for me.

And he had Joe Lombardi as his offensive coordinator during his first three seasons in the NFL and 4,300-plus yards, two of those seasons, 31-plus touchdowns, success rate of 46% or better on

all of his drop backs.

What are we, what's bad about Justin Herbert?

Like, you know, I think that last year, your defense finally developed an identity.

This year, you're finally getting some pieces into the fold.

But for the majority of the time there, I mean, we all kind of, he's become this kind of fun pinata for us to hang up and bat back and forth.

But to to me, he's been there the entire time.

I think he's great and it's just a matter of time before he wins his Super Bowl.

I think the problem for him a little bit because, right, you look at the numbers and why people fell completely in love with him was the arm power, the strength, the incredible throws.

Like there's no doubt that he can do things.

Yeah, athleticism.

He's got it all.

He has it on.

So I think he's packed into

the frustration around the Chargers, overall Chargers experience and the way that they've melted down.

And it's like he's going to get blamed for some of that.

And it's like, yet, if you point fingers fairly like so many other people around him inside that organization are the reason they've crumbled at times.

Well, it's like Matthew Stafford, for example, right?

Had all these great seasons, and the Lions just were kind of a trash bag of a franchise.

And then he pairs with Sean McVay and wins the Super Bowl.

And it's like, oh, yeah, that guy's a Hall of Famer.

He's great.

I mean, to me, Justin Herbert's the same way where he's had a bunch of these awesome seasons.

He's had some awesome moments through his career in big games.

And now all of a sudden, it's just like, what?

He has to win a Super Bowl?

He has to go.

Well, how about

let's start here?

Win a playoff game.

Okay.

It feels like a fair start.

Yeah.

They bombed out last year in the first round of the playoffs, 32-12.

They get beat up by the Texans.

They had, of course, that famous meltdown against the Jaguars as well.

I think there's nothing bad about Justin Herbert, but yes, I think it's just a fun, and you're right.

I like the the way you put that.

It is like this piñata.

We could all have fun about what this guy's actual potential is.

But yeah, a run where they have like tangible success in January would, for me, I know people hate that shit.

People hate the whole, like, don't judge a quarterback on wins and losses or, you know, a playoff success isn't just on the QB, but I do need it.

Like, I need it to be able to say for John, for Jim Harbaugh to talk about his quarterback, like the guy walks on water, and we just need to get on his level to truly be special.

It's like, all right, show it to me.

Show it to me.

So, is Lamar, just not to belabor this and make it annoying, is Lamar on that level for you?

Lamar, no, because I understand and it's fair.

Lamar has been a far superior regular season player, the guy who could have easily won his third MVP last year, and he's got two in his back pocket.

And I do, I hope it's not lost to the football public that Lamar was, you know, a bad tight end drop away on that two-point conversion from maybe finally having his moment.

The comeback in Buffalo, and I know he had some mistakes early in that game,

that was a tremendous, tremendous effort down the stretch.

And that opened my eyes.

And I was like, okay, I think he took that leap.

But I get it.

It's fair.

Sorry, he didn't win that game.

I think it's okay for you, though, Dan, because I side with you on this, that

look, it's like we're in a, we're in a place now where, like, with the way that that football is covered and watched by everyone, that there's certain areas of fandom that we experienced for 30-plus years, you know, in football or 40, where winning playoff games and winning a Super Bowl, like, and we're not dumb enough to think the quarterback did it alone, but it matters.

It's legacy.

It's storytelling.

When you go watch like four hours of NFL films, it's not typically about the quarterback that did well in the regular season six times in a row and never had any glory in January, whether you you like it or not.

And maybe we can sound like the bozos down at the bar, but like that is the way sports are followed.

Championships and playoff games matter whether you like it or not.

Whether we're smart enough for you or not.

I thought we efforted the whole thing of this show is we efforted to sound like the bozos at the bar that just love ball.

I mean, I don't think it takes us too much effort to sound that way.

All right, quick injury update.

Justin Jefferson, he's dealing with a mild hamstring strain.

He's being held out of practice and will be re-evaluated in a week, but they believe everything will be all systems go for week one.

But of course, they have to be careful.

Things are less or a little bit more ominous.

Things are a little more ominous around Joe Mixon, the Pro Bowl running back from the Texans, who had a really nice year for them last year.

He's out for an extended period of time with a foot injury.

NFL insider Jordan Schultz reports that he's going to miss multiple weeks of training camp for Houston.

So

Nick Chubb being an addition in that backfield, that could pay dividends for them, assuming that Chubb can still

play the guitar.

8 o'clock Delight.

Rashawn Slater.

And the Chargers agree on a four-year, $114 million contract extension, $92 million guaranteed.

Yep, it makes him the highest paid offensive lineman in NFL history.

That's what the agent's job is.

When the star player is like, I need that in the tweet.

Even if it's not necessarily true, when you start breaking the contract apart, I need that in the tweet.

Bengals and first-round pick, Shamar Stewart, finally get that rookie contract signed.

Four years, 19 mil, fully guaranteed.

Do you really care?

Do we want to get into the specifics of who won and who lost?

Who gives a shit?

Falcons wide receiver Darnell Mooney expected to miss most of camp with a shoulder injury.

Browns quarterback Kenny Pickett injured his hamstring on Saturday and is likely to miss some time.

Good news, Mark.

You have 14 more quarterbacks in that camp.

That's good news.

That's good news.

It's needed to happen, although I'm not happy for Pickett, but we got to start to siphon some of these guys off here.

Let's go.

All right, good.

So you were rooting for Pickett to get hurt.

That's what I took out of that.

Cowboys guard Rob Jones, who's been working with the starting unit during the early portion of training camp, broke a bone in his necks.

Yeek.

During Sunday's practice, expected to miss two to three months.

Heal up, kid.

Pucks rookie offense outside linebacker David Walker suffered a torn ACL during Friday's practice.

He is done for the year, the fourth-round pick.

Gravedigger.

I know you guys have been holding on.

You and the other Justin have been holding on to hope that Traylon Burks will eventually become AJ Brown for you.

He's now expected to miss the start of the season after fracturing his collarbone in Saturday's practice.

Yeeker.

Not holding on to anything.

Traylon Burks was cut today by the Titans.

I thought this injury might get him stashed on IR, but before that, he was trending towards being cut at the end of training camp or just traded for peanuts at this point.

Peanuts.

Patriots cornerback Christian Gonzales limped off the practice field on Monday.

We're not getting anything as of recording what the injury is, but keep an eye on it.

He is vital to the success of that secondary.

Jets quarterback Justin Fields, see the seance worked.

He is back at practice participating in 11 on 11 drills with the Jets.

He was actually a part of 7-on-7s over the weekend, so he dodged a bullet there.

Bears wide receiver, second round round pick, Luther Burden, the third, has a hamstring, but he is participating in practice for the first time.

Good news.

Also good news, wide receiver Ricky Pearsall of the Niners, who I got, I got, Mark, I'm pumped about Pearsall.

He's been activated from the pup list.

If the Niners are going to have that bounce back season, yes, McCaffrey has to be back and be the dude, but the guys have to make the leap, and Pearsall is at the top of the list for me.

I think that Kyle Shanahan has a career track record of turning guys like him into something special.

Mike Hilton signs with the Dolphins.

Eli Apple signs a one-year deal with the Niners.

DJ Sharks signs with the Falcons.

Running back

Corderl Patterson, released by the Steelers.

I've always struggled with that name, and we might be at the end of his career, so I might not have to say it anymore.

And Jake Ferguson signs a four-year, $52 million extension with the Cowboys, $30 million guarantee.

And Josh Metellos signs a three-year, $36 million extension with the Vikings.

I was going to leave Josh out, but it didn't feel right.

Connor, it didn't feel right.

No, good for him and

his family.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Didn't Patterson, because it's Cordero or Cordero

or Corderl, but there were multiple years where people were saying it both ways.

And I don't know if he did the thing where he finally corrected his name like four years into his career, but like there was a shift at some point there, I felt like, and he became Cordero.

Yeah.

Well, there was also, what was going on in Falcons Camp, was there another clarification on their running back, Justin?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, Bajon Robinson let us all know that his name is not Bijan.

This coming two years after he signs a deal with a mustard company to create Bijan Mustardson.

So I kind of feel as much as I love him and I'm wearing my orange today, hookum horns for Bijan Robinson.

It's like once you sign a deal with a mustard company to market yourself as Bijan Mustardson, I feel like you can't go back to Bajan now.

Like you have to just be

disingenuous.

Mark, think how close we came to Justin not being able to fire off that take because I had skipped over that in the rundown, the Robinson thing.

And it just organically circled back to pronunciations.

And now we got the Dijon mustard.

And I hope that Justin's genuinely agitated by this whole situation.

Just to put a bow on Cordero Patterson, Cordero Patterson.

My favorite post-game quote of all time.

He was with the Patriots and he was caught on camera grabbing someone's

groin area in a scrum in a pile.

Got the chance to ask him about it afterwards and said, I'm a grown man.

I don't need no one's ass and dick and balls in my face.

So, just

thank you, Cordero, for one of the greatest quotes I've ever received.

There's been a theme to this show.

Yes, we will leave today's show with, again, the following quote:

Brother

always been

a little freaky.

See you Wednesday.

Heed the call.