Steelers-Dolphins Blockbuster Trade + HTC Hotline!

Want to transform your skin and challenge everything you thought you knew about Clean Beauty?

Primally Pure is going back to the roots of skincare.

Literally, their tallow-based products are grounded in ancestral wisdom and made with grass-fed beef fat.

Yes, beef fat.

Because sometimes, nature knows best.

Tallow isn't a trend.

It's skin identical, meaning it closely mimics the oils your skin naturally produces.

That makes it deeply nourishing, incredibly bioavailable, and wildly effective, especially for for sensitive, dry, or reactive skin that's tried everything else?

Thousands have made the switch and never looked back.

So, if you're searching for something that actually works, look no further.

Head to PrimallyPure.com to shop their cult favorite tallow deodorant and explore the full line.

That's P-R-I-M-A-L-L-Y-P-U-R-E.com.

Your skin will thank you.

The Heat the Call Podcast.

We'll hang up and listen.

We will.

We will hang up and listen.

Or you will.

You being the listener.

Because this is our...

You know, it's a new tradition.

Call-in show.

Here on Heed the Call.

Heed in that call.

Dan Hansis.

Connor Orr.

Connor Mark, as we know, who knows, he set sail

late last week.

If indeed the goal to get to the East Coast was to go around, as he calls,

you know, go down south and then curl around

and then get into, as he calls it, the Gulf of America, and then duck around Florida, hook around Florida, give a little wave to Cuba, and then come up.

up the eastern seaboard to get to New Hampshire.

If that's indeed what's happening,

you know, I hope everything's okay.

In sailing parlance, we call that circumnavigation, Dan.

He's circumnavigating

troubled waters, at least to him, politically, maybe.

I don't think that at all.

Yes, this is going to be a fun episode

because you and me, Con, are doing an episode together.

I know that's your opinion.

I don't know how many of these we've done,

but it's time and it's going to be a lot of fun i'm excited how about you me too uh we have long talked about our love for uh what we're about to get into at some uh at some juncture in this show and how it's a very special part of of both of our lives and i do think that this is the one show combo that has yet to exist i've know even dating back to like 2015 2016 there were weird nights where i would do sunday night shows with mark just mark uh

and so so I don't think we have actually ever just done a show together.

It's time.

It's time.

I'm really excited.

It's been a pleasure, Connor, to do all these shows with you.

We started August 10th.

We did our first, or is it August 12th?

August 12th, we did our first show of He the Call,

and you were on that program.

And here we are now.

This will be our last show before we take our summer break.

We're going going to take a few weeks off and

do some family time and

during the slow time of the NFL news cycle get caught up with the life side of things.

And then we'll be back when training camp kicks off.

So a nice way to end it.

And what I say is a tradition.

I feel like, let's bring in the gravedigger.

Justin, I feel like this will be a good...

annual tradition of last show of the season, the season finale, as it were,

to get involved with the audience.

And the audience really, really, really stepped up when we put the prompt out for the voicemails, didn't they?

Absolutely.

I love the listener response to that.

We got over 100, close to 150 voicemails, which obviously means we won't be able to play all of them.

But thank you to everyone who called and left a message.

If you are wondering whether or not we will play it, just know that if it was over a minute, it probably not, maybe, but probably not.

But we really appreciate all you guys.

Shout out to Drew, the Titans fan, who called just to say hi to me.

And then he listens to the Titans podcast.

And we met at the live show in LA.

Your voicemail didn't make the cut, but I wanted to give you this acknowledgement.

Oh, that's nice.

What a moment.

What a moment.

And just so everybody knows, because it really was,

it was nice.

It was nice to get that level of feedback to the point where when I was in Texas and I had my Apple Watch on and I was getting notifications every time we got a voicemail, it killed the battery of my Apple Watch because you guys had sent so many messages.

And honestly,

I do think that is a good, that's just a sign of the show and how the success we've been able to have in a short amount of time with

something stacked against us when we started.

But the one thing that we always had in our back pocket was you guys and girls.

And we appreciate you so much.

So this is kind of a way to interface with the audience and enjoy kind of a celebration of a great year or first season together.

Now, before we do that, though, Conman,

some actual news went down Monday morning.

Let's get into it.

It was in fact a mega trade.

A mega trade.

Okay, that's a little strong.

But it was a big trade, a type of trade that you never, never see right as the calendar is turning over to July.

The Miami Dolphins traded three-time all-pro cornerback, Jalen Ramsey.

We knew that was coming.

We knew Ramsey was going to get moved.

Where he was going to get moved.

There were talks of the Rams, him returning to Los Angeles.

I had thrown out the possibility of him going to the Packers, who are very secondary poor right now.

But no, where he actually goes is to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

It's Ramsey and tight end Janu Smith.

coming off a career year in Miami to the Pittsburgh Steelers in exchange for three-time all-pro safety Minka Fitzpatrick,

who, by the way, was drafted once upon a time by the Miami Dolphins in the first round.

Jalen Ramsey, of course, also a former first-round pick who's headed to Canton.

So it is Ramsey and Smith

and

for Minka Fitzpatrick.

There's a pick swap involved here as well.

2027 seventh-round pick to the Steelers,

2027, fifth-round pick

going to Miami.

So we'll start here, Connor.

Just really, I was surprised by the depth of the trade because

I know that Jalen Ramsey is a huge star.

I know that he's a Hall of Fame level player.

I also thought because of his salary, because of his age, because of the lack of leverage that the Dolphins have, that they wouldn't be able to fetch anything that would be impressive as a return.

But Minka Fitzpatrick is a nice return.

Minka Fitzpatrick's a nice return, but I would love to know what Mike Tomlin's thought process is here.

And I'm not saying it's incorrect, but he wants to evolve the defense somehow.

You know, I'm a degenerate.

I think that

I talked to Mike actually about this last year.

The influence that Brian Flores had in that brief kind of rehab year that Flores had after Miami that he spent in Pittsburgh as the linebackers coach, I wonder if that rubbed off in Tomlin in any way, shape, or form, because you get Ramsey, who might be able to, in his golden years, play safety or some sort of a hybrid safety corner position.

He's still an ass kicker physically, so I think he fits in with the Steelers.

But in what way is Tomlin trying to evolve this defense?

What did he see last year that he didn't like?

And why does Ramsey represent kind of a market upgrade?

Fitzpatrick did fall off last year.

There's no doubt about that.

And so I wonder if this is, God, just another piece of them just leaning all in on this 2025 season.

Yeah, you look at the depth charts here

because

Fitzpatrick, he fits in.

He'll slot in very well with Miami, who added some safeties in the offseason.

Let's see who they had.

Yeah, they lost Javon Holland in free agency, the Dolphins, and then they went and they got Ashton Davis, who was just the guy with the Jets.

They got Ifetu Milenfanu

from the Lions.

But those are both cheap contracts.

So Fitzpatrick, there he goes.

He's just going to slide right into that.

He's going to slide right back into the back end of that Miami defense.

On the Pittsburgh side of things, yeah, they have Joey Porter Jr.,

who's obviously a rock there on one side.

They got Darius Slade Jr.

So, yeah, is Ramsey now becoming something of a nickel guy, a safety guy?

How does he adapt to a role like that?

He played mostly on the outside last year, Connor.

But he's also, yes, he's a great player, and great players like Jalen Ramsey do find a way if they have something left in the tank.

So I get that part of it.

The other part of it was Janu Smith, who is coming off a career year.

I think it was 88 catches, close to 900 yards.

But the Dolphins deemed him to be someone that they did not want to pay, so they offload his contract.

And I think the other surprising part of it is the financials here, Connor, because the general thought, I think, was that the Dolphins, part of the reason me and a lot of other people weren't expecting them to get much in return for Ramsey, is that you were going to have to offload a very big contract this season, and you would think that maybe they'd have to eat some of that to facilitate.

No, not only did the Steelers take on Ramsey's contract, they tacked on a little money on top.

And Janu Smith is making over $10 million for the money that they gave him a sweetener here.

So the Steelers had the cap space.

It fits into a greater hole for for the Steelers right now, which is they are going obviously all in right now with Aaron Rodgers.

Whether it works or not remains to be seen.

But yeah, I did not see it this type of trade coming.

So it's fun.

I like when players go for players.

All pros go for all pros.

And of course, Arthur Smith, Janus, Jonas Smith have that connection as well.

Third time they've played together and coached together.

So I like it.

It's a fun trade.

I like that slogan.

Steelers 2025 greater hole.

And you just have a picture of of Rogers, his face there.

But

so very quickly, the Art Smith-John U.

Smith connection.

There are certain coaches who, as they travel throughout the league, offensive coaches, who just have to have this guy, and it's one guy.

And for example, Matt LaFleur for years was Mercedes-Lewis, right?

And it's like, why do they keep re-signing this 38-year-old tight end?

And it's like, because he's the guy that makes everything else I do so much easier.

John U.

Smith is that player for Art Smith, and I do think it helps unlock a lot of that offense.

But curious,

at this time, Pittsburgh taking on a lot of contract, tacking on years to contracts, spending money,

but they still have some financial stuff that they got to take care of.

And so I wonder how that's being received.

It's a very interesting time here in Pittsburgh.

How do they view this window of time?

And are they willing to sacrifice making some other people unhappy by spending a lot of cash right now?

You said here in Pittsburgh.

Are you in Pittsburgh right now?

It looks like you're in New Jersey.

I thought you did.

Shit.

Is there something we need to know?

Are you a coal miner on the west side of Pennsylvania now?

How messed up would that be if I just like just had a compulsive lying problem and pretended I was in New Jersey for the last time?

Although it happened on our show, our producer picked up and moved to Texas over a matter of weeks.

So like these things are known to happen on the program.

But in this case, you're still in New Jersey, you're saying.

As far as I know, yeah.

Uh, one other side of this.

So, like,

like I said, Smith, the Dolphins, you know, had a tough year last year overall, uh, but he was a really, really productive tight end.

So that's why I like the trade.

I kind of like the trade for both sides, um, but I really like the trade for the Steelers because I think

Smith could be very good in that offense.

And I guess you're going to play a lot of two tight ends with Prior Muth there as well.

I think Darnell Washington's there as well.

Yeah.

Interesting.

I wonder on the Dolphins side and on the McDaniel side,

if Jalen Waddell and Tyreek having kind of relatively down years, how much that played into them being like, we got to clean up this and centralize and focus up this offense and maybe, you know, put it on Tua because he was.

productive with the tight end, but maybe if we're funneling more towards our two superstar wide receivers that we pay an absurd amount of money to, maybe the offense will be better off and we're just going to be a more streamlined operation.

Those guys got to stay healthy, of course, for this to work.

I do wonder also if, because there are reports now that the Dolphins are maybe looking to trade for a tight end or to inherit the overage after cut down day, you know, if some veterans on the block, I think that there are just tight ends that might fit a little bit better in Mike McDaniel's offense, whereas Johnny is a little bit more of an Art Smith guy, whereas McDaniel maybe wants someone who's going to be a little bit more physical, but then can get off blocks and get to the second level.

Is that something that they're looking for as they try to, because they have to shape-ship this optense in some way, shape, or form.

You can't go back into this trying to run another track and field meet in 2025.

All right.

And then one other piece of this.

And this popped up right before we started recording.

And Justin, if you want to jump in here into the convo, because Justin, I could tell it was a little

dismissive of the report, and I get why, because,

yeah, it seems like the Steelers are going all in with Rodgers here.

When has that ever gone wrong?

So why would you do anything to take away from your veteran corps?

But there is this report that landed right as we started over at ESBN.

In recent weeks,

this is per Adam Schefter.

Multiple teams have been discussing whether they can trade for TJ Watt, who skipped the team's most recent minicamp.

The Steelers haven't shown any willingness to deal Watt so far.

That's an important part of this sentence.

But he's unhappy with his contractual situation.

And sources believe, according to Schefter, outside team interest is likely to increase given Monday's trade of Ramsey and Smith for Fitzpatrick.

The Steelers have been adamant.

They want Watt to finish his career in Pittsburgh.

The only reason,

Justin,

that I

wonder, just it's worth talking about, is like, why would this be floated out there at all?

Like,

is it perhaps a smoke signal that the Steelers are having a bit of a weird offseason and one that's a little unlike them in terms of their team history?

If they are looking to do something big here and maybe, just maybe, for instance, let's throw it out there.

They go and they could trade TJ Watt

in his prime years, get a first-round pick, and then they're waiting in the wings is

your artillery after this one and done Aaron Rodgers season.

Are they trying to balance the present and the future at the same time, potentially, or is this just a waste of time?

to me it feels like i have to think about who benefits from this information being out there like tj watt and his representation if they really want to get a deal done could float this idea see what other teams out there are willing to pay him and then take that information to pittsburgh and say look Team X would pay our guy $35 million a year.

Why won't you do it?

If you're not going to do it, trade him.

But for the Steelers, they have one year with Rodgers.

I mean, Rogers said this is his basically his lot.

He's pretty sure this is his final year, right?

Signed a one-year contract.

They're trying to win a Super Bowl this year while they have what they believe to be the best possible roster they can build, right?

Why would you get rid of an all-pro level game wrecker who was their closer?

And the reason that they were able to be above 500 again under Tomlin, because of the way he can close games, you're not moving him in a year where you're trying to win the Super Bowl unless you're not really trying to win the Super Bowl and you're looking ahead to the future, in which case you wouldn't have gone out and signed Aaron Rodgers.

So to me, I think this must be coming from an agent somewhere either of another team who would love to add TJ Watt because all 31 teams would love to add him or because they're trying to get this wrapped up and get him paid.

I think you're absolutely right, Justin.

And

the thing is, I view reports like this as sort of a societal intelligence test.

It's like, how many times are we going to fall for the, oh, like the Ravens might not sign Lamar Jackson?

And then it gets done.

It's like, oh, is Mike, Micah, you know, Micah Parsons going to go somewhere?

And then he doesn't.

And it's like premium, premium, premium players at premium positions don't really change hands at all.

It's like going on a roller coaster.

You know, you're not going to die.

That's kind of one of the boring parts of it, right?

And you know that you're going to land safely at the end.

And that's what these off-season kind of little floaty balloon party storylines are.

It's just like we know where this is going to end on July 23rd at 9.31 p.m.

or AM Schefter is going to be like, ah, TJ Watts in there signing a deal, never in doubt.

Right.

And just like why we were so annoyed, me specifically, but I think everyone was exhausted by the Aaron Rodgers dance because we all knew where that was going to head as well.

Last thing before we take a break and then dive into the...

Wait, before you move off this story, I do want to just acknowledge the bizarre reporting nature around it because it was very aggravating to me okay the way that the the trickle out of information where it's like oh guess what splash jalen ramsey's being traded and then we're all refreshing twitter constantly like what's he being traded for what's the compensation and it's like oh by the way minka fitzpatrick is the compensation and shefter even tweets the rare player for player trade and then 20 minutes later it's like oh by the way janu smith is being swapped for a late round pick as well and it's like wait what the hell's going on?

What is the compensation here?

And in my opinion, this was a prime example of reporters rushing to be first to break a story, not getting every piece of information, and the result is extremely sloppy, and everyone's tweeting different things at the same time.

And it's like, what the hell?

Like, what?

even was today in terms of breaking news?

It was, it was horrible.

You know what you got dinged by?

And credit to you because you're online and you're preparing for today's show.

Um, I had a very 2008 internet morning where my kids are out of school.

We're back, obviously, from Texas.

My wife went back to work, my kids are home from school

for the summer, so I was doing this and doing that, doing some house stuff because we, you know, you just got to take care of a few things when you're out of town.

And then I learned from my producer, oh, we also got to talk about the trade.

And then I just hit ESPN.com.

Like, I was like, you know, like Obama just got elected for the first time.

there it was.

Oh, there's the trade.

And there's the terms.

And that's the, but yes, like that living online experience, it's going, it's going to happen.

It's going to happen.

And also then, you know, I was like, do we need, because you also said this, because Justin was all fired up, Connor,

we get the video tweet from Rapsheet from, I guess, his vacation, his tropical luxury vacation in Mexico somewhere,

just standing in front of some ancient ruins and then just dictating the terms of the trade, which we already knew from online.

Don't need it.

Like, Ian, you don't need to do it.

You're cool.

Go enjoy your family.

Like I said to Sessler, Sessler's texting me this morning about work stuff.

Mike, Mark,

just chill.

Enjoy your family.

We don't need you right now.

Good.

Going through a version of that over here where my son, we went to the movies and we saw a preview for the new Superman movie that's coming out July 11th.

Oh, yeah.

I'm in it.

And he has talked about it literally eight times a day, every day since March, whatever, 2nd or whatever, when we went to go see the movie.

And then it just so happens that this story that I've been chasing, this guy that,

listen, I can talk to you on July 11th, the day that we bought the movie tickets for.

And I was just like,

it's not possible because this is like, it's like that thing that you know you have to be locked in for.

And I just don't want to be thinking about anything else.

And so it's like, sometimes you got to just move the NFL out of your whole purview, you know?

You just,

you got to just push it away, you know?

That's healthy.

That's healthy.

Last thing before we move on:

AFC North, after all these moves by the Pittsburgh Steelers, all these veterans they've added, former all-pros, former MVPs, former defensive players of the year, I still got him third best in the division.

How about you?

I think

if

Ramsey is, because I was going to make this point earlier, I think sometimes that positional switch does invigorate a player late in his career if he's doing a hybrid safety corner thing.

You know, a lot like people thought Darrell Rivas should have done before he just faded into oblivion as a player.

And maybe that would have kept his career alive a little bit longer.

If that works.

There's probably a way that you could clip the Bengals.

I mean,

I have them and the Bengals both as kind of 1B and sort of jostling together, but it's so Rodgers-dependent right now.

Yeah.

And before Steelers fans come after me, I also think this is a division that could send three teams to the playoffs.

But I think there is an outcome where all three of these teams have winning records and all have, you know, potentially double-digit records.

But like last year, for instance, Ravens had 12 wins, Steelers had 10, Bengals had nine.

I kind of see it.

Maybe flip the bottom two teams there.

I kind of see that.

That's how the AFC North shakes out right now.

But so much, so much can change.

And yes, so much rides on the quarterbacks in that division and how they lead the way.

All right, let's take a break.

And when we come back, we open up the phone lines.

Ooh, I like that.

I am experiencing enjoyment.

Hey, Heed the Call.

The podcast is going on vacation, but the Patreon does not take a break.

Patreon.com/slash Heed the Call has new content throughout July.

You can get the return of the throwback podcast with me and my bosom buddy Bob Castrone.

We do a look at the first ever TRL MTV countdown with Carson Daly.

It's wild stuff and it's in video format for the first time.

Check that out.

Also, Rolling Thunder will roll out another episode.

The Silver Horses newsletter from Mark just dropped another edition.

The Friday Fun Show will continue to roll out new episodes.

And by the way, by the way, it came from the subreddit, a study of fan culture and topics around Heed the Call.

That is coming up another edition in just a couple days.

So make sure you check out all this content because while Heed the Call is dark, the Patreon, the light is turned on and it's bright, baby.

Calling all heaterness.

Charlie Sheen is an icon of decadence.

I lit the fuse and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

He's going the distance.

He was the highest paid TV star of all time.

When it started to change, it was quick.

He kept saying, no, no, no, I'm in the hospital now, but next week I'll be ready for the show.

Now?

Charlie's sober.

He's going to tell you the truth.

How do I present this with any class?

I think we're past that, Charlie.

We're past that, yeah.

Somebody call action.

AKA Charlie Sheen, only on Netflix, September 10th.

That's the sound of the fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron and the quiet confidence of ultra-smooth handling.

The elevated interior reminds you this is more than an EV.

This is electric performance redefined.

Nothing can buy em, burn it on the trial.

Mike and the Mad Dog, double GFAN.

Good afternoon, how are you today?

Come on.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

That is, um, for people that are not aware, that is the opening theme song

of Mike and the Mad Dog, which is the,

I would say, the pinnacle of sports talk radio, certainly in our formative years.

And really, when you look at now the landscape of today, so much of it is shaped by what Mike and the Mad Dog did in the New York market from, I think it was about 88 or so, 89, till 2008 when they went their separate ways.

And

before we get to

the callers here for our show, Connor, I just want to talk about it for a couple of minutes because

I was in Texas and my wife's friend had come to visit from Dallas, Justin.

And she was just asking me about my career and how I ended up,

where I was and how I got into

broadcasting and all that.

And I said how I started when I was in high school,

college, early out of college.

Like my only idea was I wanted to be a sports reporter or a columnist or this or that.

Like, like so many people my age, like I reading Bill Simmons on page two for ESBN.com like blew my mind as like, wait, you could actually write with humor and you could write like with some level of

reverence.

And that kind of opened doors to me in terms of how I wanted to approach my career.

But deep down, like everything I was doing leading up to when we started Debate Club and then around the NFL and now here at Heed the Call, so much of it was born out of listening to WFAN as a teenager.

So much, so much listening to WFAN.

I would listen to it in the afternoon, of course, Mike and Chris and Mad Dog.

And then I would listen to it late at night.

I'd go to sleep to it, to

the schmoozer, or Joe Beningo wailing about another Jets miserable uh loss on a on a Sunday morning Sunday evening like and all those all those hours I thought I was just a sports fan but it was actually I think looking back on it it was like training for where I ended up in my career what I really wanted to do yeah um so I have very fond a great amount of fondness I don't really listen to sports talk radio anymore I moved away from New York of course and it's a different type of thing now but it I have so much much love for the format, and I know you do too, Connor.

Yeah.

Going back to,

you know, I wouldn't say that I did well in high school.

I think at the end there, it kind of got a little dicey in terms of, you know, what we were going to end up doing.

But

from

January 2nd or 3rd, until probably right up until the Super Bowl,

my friend Mark Pegnati and I, two or three times a week, would just walk out of school and go to my house and sit in the basement because it was simulcast.

And we would watch Mike and the Mad Dog Super Bowl trivia, which and they would dress up and they had the gowns on and they, you know, they would have the ridiculous, ridiculously hard Super Bowl questions.

But Chris used to always answer the phone and say, What kind of fan are you?

And you know,

you had to say what team you liked and all that stuff.

But yeah, that was to me,

you know, coming of age in the, in that era of powerhouse newspaper columnist, the dream was always have your little, have your little radio show and then have your column.

And that was kind of your life.

And so just being able to do this, you know, even once, it's like, it's surreal.

It's like this very, you get this very tingly feeling and this feeling of like appreciation, like, and being able to kind of pay it back a little bit.

So.

And then we've we've had Russo on multiple times

during our Super Bowl shows over at NFL Media.

And I remember there was always a bit of bewilderment, like, why are the guys geeking out about this guy?

This is before Russo had his comeback moment with ESPN.

It was like he was in between.

It was like post-Mike and the Mad Dog.

It was when he was on Sirius and doing stuff on MLB Network, and he was just kind of a guy in the landscape.

And then ESPN got a hold of him and kind of turned him into more of a national figure.

But yeah, the reason why is because just a huge amount of reverence for the man who

was always, you know, Sessler loved Russo.

We talked about it all the time.

Sessler would, some of his best, Mark's best favorite memories growing up in the tri-state area was like Saturdays with his dad driving, listening to when Chris would, Russo would get his own solo spot when he would do Saturday because that guy was such a workaholic.

He would do Monday to Friday drive time and then have his own show on Saturday.

I don't know how much, what his contract was or how many hours he was expected to fill, but he filled so many.

And then Francesa, who I've always loved and adored.

And I think people who know me and knew that show could see some connection points with Francesa.

Like they were just such a great pairing because they were so different, but they were just, it was such a yin and yang to what they did.

And

so if you like our show, just know like so much of the DNA comes from not just Mike and the Mad Dog, but all those shows on the fan that we kind of grew up on.

So

without further ado,

let's get into it.

And the last part of this is, yes, this is so cool that our audience, it really meant a lot to me this weekend in Texas that I kept on getting those pings on my watch.

It's like, shit, like people are responding to our show.

So this is kind of a celebration of the first year of this program, the first season of the program.

And a hearty thank you from me and Justin and Mark and Connor and Jordan Jordan and Mike and everybody that made year one what it was for our show.

Okay, let's get into it.

I'm going to start crying.

I know.

All right.

First call.

Here we go.

Hey guys, this is Nate calling in from South Carolina.

First time, long time.

I'm curious, in your time covering the league, what has been your favorite NFL storyline that hasn't had anything to do with the actual football being played?

Love you guys.

I'll hang up and take the answer off there.

That's a good one.

Connor, you take this one.

All right.

I have one that's going to take me like five seconds and then I'll get into my other one.

Yes, please.

The one was: I used to,

every year I used to compile political donations that were made by owners during election years.

And then I would just make a database and I would publish the information.

And one year for no reason at all, Jaguars owner Shad Khan donated $1,500

to a failed congressional campaign by American Idol runner-up Clay Aiken, which was just my all-time, because just you're sitting there and you're just combing through the paperwork and you're like, why?

And just, you know, did they meet at a party?

Did he wish that he beat Ruben Stutt?

How did that happen?

So just

the velvet teddy bear, Ruben Stuttered.

I remember that one.

But by far, my favorite

was why no one ate the pizza at the Roger Goodell crisis meeting after the Ray Rice knockout video surfaced.

And if people don't know what I'm talking about, the Ray Rice video surfaces total chaos at 345 Park.

Roger Goodell calls an emergency meeting, and the Wall Street Journal wrote this TikTok of the hour by hour of them, the NFL, trying to respond to this massive crisis.

And just to be clear, Ray Rice knocking out his girlfriend in an elevator.

This is about 12 years ago now,

after he had already been implicated in domestic violence, but then this was the smoking gun that blew the story into the stratosphere.

Yes.

And so the detail in the Wall Street Journal story is that all this pizza gets delivered to the conference room and everybody is waiting for Goodell's cue to start eating.

And Goodell never fing eats the pizza.

And so like 10 boxes of pizza just go completely stale and amorphous in front of all these people.

And the reason I like it is because I struggle in those situations a lot.

I am always hungry and

I have no social cues when it comes to eating.

And like, if we go to like a family share restaurant, it always gets heated because like I'm taking it.

Like I'm going if you're not going.

And so I've always thought about what I would have done and if I would have been the lone employee at 345 to eat the

pizza.

That's a good one.

Somebody, because you have to, if someone makes the move,

you have that moment where just total, like, you know, eyes are on you, and you know, you're not the only one that's thinking it, but you also don't know if, in this case, a boss, and in this case, Goodell, is going to say, what the f are you doing?

But then if you, it's such a, it's kind of like one of those sneaky and social settings in life, like a brave move, because you're kind of doing it not just for yourself, but for everybody.

Because the second, if somebody would have gotten a slice there, 10 other people would have done it within the next five minutes.

No.

But nobody did it, which tells you about the tenseness of that situation.

Interesting.

Yeah.

And I'm always the, like, I was at an event the other day for something, and there's this big buffet, and, you know, everyone's talking, and you know that there's going to be so much more talking.

But so I just got up and I hit it.

And I was just like, oh, like, you know, I'm hungry.

And I'm like, dude, there's eggplant rolling teen here.

Is no one else going to just start dominating this?

So.

Yeah.

I would say, like, for me,

I don't know if this is the right

context of the question again, but the whole 2015,

there's been so many low lights, obviously, for the Jets during this long postseason drought.

But when Geno Smith got his jaw broken by I.K.

Impali, I think his name was,

over

stiffing this lineman, offensive lineman, over a plane ticket.

$600.

Yeah, a plane ticket

and a trip to Texas to appear at a camp.

And then Geno, I guess, was dismissive of him.

And then he, you know, as they say, you f around and find out.

And IK was one of those guys you don't mess around with.

And he broke his jaw and knocked Geno out.

And that was such a crazy story.

And it actually opened the door for Ryan Fitzpatrick to have a really fun and exciting year for the Jets.

That's the only winning season they've had during these last 13 years during this drought, even if it fell short of the playoffs.

But that was like the craziest, not off-the-field story.

And just, I remember, I still remember this day.

At some point, Geno resurfaced and he posted a photo of himself in his car, like mean mugging with his like iPhone

photo, and his jaw was all swollen up.

I think he needed surgery, like to put like a wire in his jaw.

And it never played for the Jets again.

And, you know, he did get his career back on track.

But yeah, that was a crazy story.

While we're romanticizing about growing up in New York, that was a heyday for, that was back when the Daily News was still the Daily News too, and there was like kind of the headline battles.

And

the New York Post was Jaw in Disorder, which is so good.

And then the Daily News went with Deflate Face, which was another one of my favorites.

And then, I mean, the coded of this story is that...

F ⁇ ing Rex Ryan signs him the next day after the Jets cut him.

Right.

He was then the Bills coach, recently fired by the Jets.

he sent IK Impali.

Is Impali?

Is that who it was?

Something like that.

Sent him to midfield when the Jets and Bills played that following season as a captain.

Next was always entertaining.

Amazing.

All right.

What do we got?

What's next?

Hey, this is Stevie Fresh from the 316, aka Wichita.

Longtime listener, first-time caller.

That was funny.

Connor, she has gone with the Odyssey, not the TNC, but hey, we won't split hairs.

My question, do you think the NFL will expand beyond 32 teams, or are we stuck in this vicious cycle of relocations?

Curious to see where you guys take this.

Shout out to Justin in Texas here in Midwest.

Keep the call, boys.

Nice.

Is Texas Midwest?

Is that?

What is Texas?

Texas is its own Texas.

It's not the South.

It's not the Midwest, although it is like Wichita is directly north from where I am.

So it's kind of in the same zone that way.

But I think Texas is just Texas.

It's like its own thing.

Well, the first, the only thing that really stuck with me there is that the Dodge Odyssey.

Honda Odyssey.

Is it the Honda Odyssey?

I'm sure you studied them all, so yes, you know better than me.

The Honda Odyssey is a superior car to the Chrysler town and country, which that's now where you got your hackles up.

You got Connor.

Let's get Connor fired up here.

Okay, so it's yes, it's a better car, but like my neighbor was selling it to me for like 12 grand.

So I can't go to him and be like, hey, I'd rather that be a Porsche Cayenne that could fit my gigantic family.

You know, it's, that's the car that he had that he was going to give to me.

It's not like you can go to a restaurant and be like, hey, I'd rather you have a whole different menu.

This is what's there and you have to pick what's available.

Right.

I don't know.

But we should rewind that thing and see if there's any Honda shit on there.

I was just about to say, let's go up.

If you go up, Honda, Honda does have two of their models on the use cars to avoid.

Now, famously, the TNC is on there year after year.

It's a dynasty.

But if you look at Honda.

Honda just has two models on their list.

It's the Civic and the Pilot.

The Civic 18 and the Pilot and 17 and 22.

The Odyssey, nowhere to be seen.

So I would say that our caller

probably has the edge on you in this one.

A little bit of haughtiness here.

And obviously, I think one of the things to remember after the Princeton review got exposed, because it's a pay-to-play scheme, I'm sure that Honda is greasing the wheels on this thing, whereas Chrysler is just focused on making reliable family cars.

We're all still here.

All of us driving that thing every day

for hundreds of miles, and we are alive, baby.

No, except for the people who aren't.

But I don't have the data to throw in your face on that.

I don't care to do the research.

It sounds sad.

All right.

Next.

Oh, wait.

What was this question?

I'm sorry.

Do you think the NFL will ever expand beyond 32 teams?

Or are we stuck in this vicious cycle of relocation?

No.

Yes.

No.

Of course they will.

No, they're not.

More teams means more money.

More games.

More, more,

more,

more,

more.

Connor, how am I possibly wrong?

The NFL will always grow because that's all they can do at this point.

They're a corporation that the only thing they know how to do is to get bigger and bigger and bigger, and that it will include eventually more teams.

More teams means vetting other people to get into the country club.

It means splitting the pie.

It means giving up their positions and seats of power on various committees and perhaps having their voices diluted by new ownership groups or different people.

And it takes away what is the beauty of this entire scheme, which is constant leverage against their 32 host cities.

Whenever something doesn't go their way, it's like, well, San Antonio looks nice.

And then the city shits its pants and gives them a massive tax break and keeps them there.

If you keep expanding, you lose that edge.

Like at some point, there's a lot of cities, Connor.

There's a lot of cities

at some point, like Jerry Jones isn't isn't going to be like, I'm going to move the Cowboys to Asbury Park, New Jersey.

Like, we're not, you know, at some point, you lose your effectiveness.

At a certain point, but right now,

we're only talking about

if you, there's multiple cities that have two teams.

They've only tapped into ultimately about, you know, 30 markets or so at this point.

I would say realistically, I mean, having done this in Madden many times with your expansion franchise mode, I think that what we have San Antonio, which is a legitimate football town that did really well during the Alliance of American Football as a host city.

And I think that the NFL knows that it could probably put a legitimate franchise there.

You could do a second team in Chicago.

But after that, we start getting into like the Portlands of the world.

And is that,

I guess, going back to St.

Louis?

How about a second Chicago team?

How about a team based in Boston?

You know, how about, how about you look at the college landscape?

There's a million teams

and there's billions of dollars that are made by the NCAA.

Right.

But are we going to like, you know, have you seen an Akron Zips game lately?

It's not exactly popping.

So

agree to disagree on this one.

Okay.

What's the old Cuban line?

Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

The NFL, it's a bottomless appetite.

I know what you're saying, though.

You're saying it's not necessarily, it's not that the NFL is going to have some restraint.

It's just going to not strategically be in their best interest, but

I think they probably find a way.

God.

Also, the international markets.

I know right now they are in the place where they're like, let's just do games everywhere.

But it might grow to a place of popularity where they're going to be like, well, what if we do 12 teams in Europe?

And we just somehow slide that into what we do and make it truly a global game.

You see, I can imagine Roger Goodell, like, all wrinkled up.

He's 97 years old and he's floating on the orb somewhere in like a crystal palace.

He's like, finally, it's the Global Football League.

You know what I mean?

Like, I could see it.

I could see it.

Then he just dies.

Then he dies.

They immediately saw off his head and put it in a cryogenic chamber so he can continue to lead.

All right, next.

Well, there's something we couldn't say on the old show.

All right, go ahead.

Hey, what's going on, guys?

My name's Austin.

I'm calling from Austin, Texas.

Cool.

So my question is, if I were from the future and the distant future, and I told you that there was a player drafted in the last five drafts, so either 2021 or later

or after that.

If there was a player drafted in the last five drafts that retired as the undisputed GOAT at their position, who would you guess that that player is?

Love the show.

Thanks, guys.

Last five years, so 2021.

Okay.

The first name that came to mind was Justin Jefferson.

But I don't know if I can do that because,

well, he was drafted in 2020, so he's not even capable to be in this conversation.

Do you have somebody that comes to mind since 2021?

So I think that there's a slightly more obvious one, and I can get to that if you want.

But I think the one, and it's funny because the Ravens actually just declined his fifth year option but someone like tyler linderbaum who is maybe the maybe like the best center in the nfl right now and i think and here's why i'm going to make like a little bit of a strange case for him sure tyler linderbaum has a harder job than any center in the nfl because he's blocking for a quarterback where he never knows where the hell that guy is their running game is all pulling and running and constant lateral movement it's so much harder than a lot of other teams and what they ask them to do jason kelcey is probably the greatest center of all time right now and i'm not saying that's not a high bar to clear, but if Linderbaum plays 12, 13 years and wins a pair of titles with Lamar Jackson, which is possible.

Like, let's say the Ravens just get on their heater and they finally get to these games.

I don't see why.

I mean, already through what, three, four years of his career, three Pro Bowls, he's, again, probably the best center in the NFL right now.

Why can't we project that out over the course of 10 years?

Yeah, that's interesting.

That's a very Connor answer.

I like it.

Do you want the more obvious one?

Yeah, give me the obvious one.

Puka Nikua, because

the volume is there.

And if you're with McVay for, let's say he's with the Rams for 10 plus years, McVay is never going to have a rookie quarterback.

He's just going to replace Matt Stafford with another banger of a veteran.

And Puka is going to keep getting 149, 150 balls.

Jerry Rice is a pretty high bar to clear, but you had mentioned Justin Jefferson.

Like, if you look, it's just the touchdowns that are the outlier for Jerry Rice.

He scored a lot of touchdowns.

That's harder for receivers to do in the NFL now.

There's just more plays.

There's more red zone options than they've had in the past.

But I think Niku is another one of those guys that could just accumulate at such a high volume with McVay over time that maybe he ends up getting there, too.

Yeah.

He's a gifted player.

It would really surprise me if he goes down as an all.

the all-time or an all-time great.

I would say, let's throw in Brock Bowers

as an option.

and there is, he's got some history on his side.

Obviously, hit the ground running.

He's playing tight end position

where who is the undisputed?

Is there an undisputed greatest tight end ever?

Is that kind of a crown that's there to be taken?

Maybe it's Gronk.

Maybe it's Travis Kelsey.

Maybe it's Mike Dick.

I don't know.

Tony Gonzalez's stands are getting fired up.

But he's just the fourth rookie tight end to be named first team all-pro.

So you factor that in, like that maybe this guy is just getting warmed up.

But other than that, I'm trying to think of quarterbacks that came into the league.

Obviously,

Jaden Daniels set the league on fire last season.

But it's a hard - what I think the spirit of the question is: has someone come into the league that you feel like there's this sense that this could be the way you look at Michael Jordan, that type of player, you know, like that type of game changer?

And I don't know if I can say that right now.

I'll throw two guys out.

Aiden Hutchinson, just because he was on an incredible pace last season before the injury and not that deep into the game.

But before that, his first like three years, he was very good more than great.

I feel like you have to.

If we're talking about the actual greatest ever at his position, I kind of feel like you got to come in as an absolute phenom, like the way Randy Moss came into the league way back in 98.

25 sacks neck, not this season, but 2026 season.

Like that wouldn't, that would be amazing.

It wouldn't necessarily be that probably going to happen.

I don't think so either.

The other one I'll throw out is a rookie, so grain of salt, everything.

But Ashton Gentery's like just prospect profile is the amount of production he had in college.

That could be an interesting thing.

I've seen many running backs come in and be hailed as the perfect prospect.

Absolutely.

There wasn't any Titans that you brought up.

Well, Cam Ward, obviously, is the other one.

Like Cam Board.

Oof.

Ouch.

Next to next.

Hey, Dan.

Hey, Connor.

First time, long time.

My name's Noah.

I'm currently living in Atlanta from Toronto.

I am team agnostic,

but a noted ball lover.

Ah!

My question for you guys today would be

not in a cowardly way, like the Green Bay Packers did, but if you guys could enact a rule change, rule change for the upcoming year

what would it be and wise thank you first time long time I mentioned that

great call by the way great nine drops in yeah yeah he hit a lot of beats a lot of callbacks

yeah I would say the the one that's just haunted me as a football fan for years is the protection of the quarterback and the the late hits,

whether it's in the backfield or over the middle and how fast the game is and the ability to pick up that flag.

I know they've made some progress on that front now, but really button it up and protect the officials from themselves and save these games from

obviously getting to a real bad place.

The other one, I guess,

Connor, would be...

which I think they've now,

it took a playoff failure that cost the Bills maybe yet another chance to get to the Super Bowl.

But yeah, let's get rid of, let's get the microchips in the ball and get proper spotting of the line of scrimmage and the first down marker.

Those are two things that came to mind for me.

Two for me would be to add in a penalty for, and this is obviously touches a soft spot on my end.

Any quarterback that's baiting a defender to hit him as he's trying to go out of bounds should be a personal

penalty and to be considered for expulsion.

I also think that losing, and this might be controversial, but I'm kind of a, what do you call it?

A, what do Supreme Court justices say they are to excuse them being just insane people?

I'm a traditionalist or I'm a

constitutionalist.

What's the word that I'm looking for?

Like I'm a, you know what I'm talking about?

I know, yeah, but I'm not sure.

There's a word, but they're just saying it so they can be an asshole.

I think that you should not just lose the ball, you should lose points.

If you fumble the ball, the pylon play, if you fumble the ball out of bounds into the end zone, that shouldn't just be change of possession.

You should lose two points for that.

That should be a safety.

You should be whacked.

Or kill him.

Pragmatist?

Would it be that?

Pragmatist?

Pragmatist?

What is it?

Fundamentalist?

No, that's not good.

You don't want to be that.

Yeah.

I don't know.

You know what I'm talking about.

Yeah, everybody knows.

People are up in arms, are screaming at their listening device because they know and we don't.

All right, what's next?

Hello, Dan Connor.

I know you both as men of impeccable music taste.

So, my question for you is: if you were booking the Super Bowl halftime show and it was just up to you, the show was just for you.

You know, obviously, other people are watching it, but you get to book your dream musical guest.

Who would you pick?

Who do you think would

put on the best show?

Again, this isn't for every single human to enjoy.

This is for you, the best show that you can put out.

Thank you.

I will hang up and take out, take my question off air here.

Thank you.

Great question.

I'm looking at you

because here's the difference between you and I.

I think everybody knows what I'm going to say, so I want you to go first.

Because you've had, like, you've had yours in a way.

Yes.

Right.

Like you've had it.

I have.

And so what else would you possibly want?

Yeah, Connor's referring to I, my favorite band ever is U2.

They played, obviously, the first Patriots Super Bowl shortly after 9-11, very memorable show.

And that was kind of the height of my fandom.

And I remember vividly

being in an apartment building on Columbus Avenue in Boston, surrounded by Patriots fans.

And we had the projector against the sheet.

And the Patriots, I think, were winning at halftime, or it was a very close game, and there was just all this energy and watching that halftime show.

And it was very emotional and great job by the band.

So that I couldn't really ask for anything else after that.

I don't know, like, there's the dad rocker in me

would really love to see

some type of

it's such a bad idea.

It would never be what I, if this is solely what I want, right?

Yeah, like it would be something along the lines of some type of garage rock revival.

And it's like, maybe we get the strokes back together and we get white stripes back together.

And we, and we, some of those great bands of that era, like Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, we just like kind of some of the Garage Rock, turn of the century guys, we put them out there for 13 minutes and just like blow the roof off the joint.

But again, that is not

what I think people would enjoy.

But as a 45-year-old dad, I would be into that.

So let's go Garage Rock Reunion.

What a bad idea.

The 11-year-old in me is like, say Janet Jackson, say Janet Jackson.

But, you know, I think that the honest answer is probably

dead in company, right?

Like Grateful Dead, John Mayer.

You would do it in Vegas.

You would create like a sphere-like atmosphere, and then you would just kind of roll from there.

Yeah, that's a good one.

And the one other one, this one I'm not as hot about, although I'm very excited as many listeners right now are as well.

The Oasis reunion is coming.

It's scheduled, I think, to start in a couple days in England and then work its way to America if the brothers can not kill each other or like a world war doesn't wipe us all off the map by the end of the summer.

But I did like the idea of an Oasis halftime show at the first Super Bowl, like at Wembley Stadium, would have been really cool.

But I'm a little cooler because now that's not a reunion element of it anymore.

It's not going to, the novelty won't be at the same level.

But Oasis at the Super Bowl and at Wembley, which would also bonus points because it would lead to a really pissed off Connor or that we would have taken the Super Bowl out of America.

Well, it would lead to a pissed off me that we took the Super Bowl out of America.

But this is the kind of thing that would kind of be me getting back at them for taking all the good games where it's just like, oh, okay, you get like Viking Steelers and you feel all pounding your chest in Dublin, like you guys are awesome.

We took the f ⁇ ing Oasis reunion.

Like that's ours now.

And so I think that the

pound of flesh if that's gonna, if there's gonna be that type of cultural

in the war of appropriation, then like no one from England can actually get into that building.

It's just full of white insurance executives.

Yeah.

And yeah, maybe you even zap the satellite transmission for the 12 minutes.

And now we're really getting even.

This is within Connor's twisted world.

Then you just have to listen to a bunch of pharma bros like being like, oh, I recorded on my phone.

I only have one of 800 copies of it.

You should have seen it.

It would put the Heidi bull to shame.

Instead of the Oasis reunion,

everyone in England, in Ireland, in Scotland, and everywhere else would get a rerun of MTV's Celebrity Deathmatch halftime show from 2000.

And everybody's like, what?

All right, next.

Hello, Heed the Call podcast.

Hello, Heedness.

This is Judd Heating from New York.

Just wanted to know what you thought the Packers' realistic goal should be for this season.

Thanks, man.

Love the show.

And hopefully, Mark hasn't fallen off that boat yet.

I think he's safe.

I think Mark's safe.

He took the long way.

And we're going to just pray for him.

The question was...

Bring him on a boat.

The question was, the Packers chances.

Yeah,

I'm a little less bullish on the Packers than I was this time last year.

But I also think there's no reason

that they couldn't contend in the NFC and also in the NFC North.

If you want to look at it from a more glass half full, I know the Detroit Lions, who won the division, went 15-2 with all those injuries.

But also, like, despite all the things that went wrong for the Lions last year, a lot of things went right for the Lions as well to get where they finished up and

to win that many games.

So the idea of the Lions coming down a little bit, a lot of turnover, coaching staff, obviously.

And

also, you have to think about that.

And And then the Vikings, I think everyone kind of expects the Vikings to come back to earth.

And it could be a crashdown to earth, depending on how the rookie quarterback fares.

The Bears are supposed to be better, but who knows?

Like, would it shock me if the Bears won six or seven games this year?

No, it would not.

So the Packers are kind of this team where I think there's less variance to me in their outcomes.

I could see them winning.

between nine and 12 games.

They'll be a good game, good team.

Could they be a great team?

I'll throw that one to you, Connor.

That I'm not sure about.

I don't think so.

And I don't think that they're good enough defensively.

And we're not just talking about the lack of firepower at corner, but I mean, even the Packers themselves said that they wanted more help

as an interior pass rush unit.

And you have first-round picks everywhere, Rashawn Gary, Kenny Clark, Devontae Wyatt, Lucas Van Ness, all that.

But you're still not getting that push that you want inside.

I just don't think that they're front to back,

you know, maybe the second-best team in the division, if we're talking generously.

And J.J.

McCarthy doesn't have a great season.

So I think 10 wins as presently constructed is great for them.

And you just don't poop your pants in the playoffs like you did.

I mean, if I remember correctly, that playoff loss to the Eagles, there were like fumbled kickoffs.

There was a lot of just disastrous stuff happening for Green Bay in addition to them not playing all that well.

It's funny.

Also, I thought Jordan Love lost, didn't lose me, but I, you know, they get they paid him like a super duperstar.

And then I don't think he was quite at that level.

I'm looking at his numbers.

And, you know, he was fifth in QBR.

So obviously he wasn't a bad quarterback.

But I think if you asked privately around that building, they probably expected more from him last season.

So he's going into a big year for him.

It's going to be his age-27 season.

You expect him to take the next step.

Let's see if he does, you know.

Yeah, I don't know.

And you're like, what is that receiver room?

I mean, there's a lot of great guys or decent guys.

I don't know.

I just don't know.

I don't know what they are right now.

And that's a hard thing for me to digest.

Yeah, good is the enemy of great.

And I don't know if they, you know, you now, if Matthew Golden hits the ground running,

then it gets very interesting all of a sudden.

And that would make a big difference.

But

of course, adding Josh Jacobs there is, I like that as well.

So let's see.

Let's see what happens.

All right, let's a little bit of a halftime.

We were talking about Mike and the Mad Dog.

Here's Francesa solo.

I would say, in terms of absurd callers,

did we get any absurd calls, Justin?

Like truly, like crazy, like insane people calls?

Nothing on this level.

There was a couple that were a little out there, but I wouldn't classify any of our listeners as absurd, to be honest.

Here is an absurd call that Francesa got several years back now from a caller who asks a question

to Big Mike that really

catches him off guard.

Enjoy.

Dan Woolwick, what's up, Dan?

It wasn't me.

Hey, Mike.

I just got

a question about the Giants.

In your years of experience, have you ever seen

how the San Francisco Giants Giants were once the New York Giants?

Has there ever been either a franchise-to-franchise or maybe even player-to-player get-together when San Francisco comes to New York?

Like, do they ever say hi, maybe

I don't know, go out to dinner or something?

I don't know.

What are you talking about?

Is there ever any interaction when the San Francisco Giants come to New York or vice versa?

The San Francisco Giants come to New York and do what?

Have a game.

They play against the Mets.

And what do you want to happen now?

Do the New York Giants ever reach out to them, either the players or the franchises?

The Football Giants?

Yeah, the Football Giants.

What is the connection between the San Francisco Giants and the Football Giants?

Well, they used to be in New York, and they got the same name.

Yeah.

But

they have nothing to do with each other.

There's no connection.

They have different ownership.

There's no connection between the two teams.

I mean, there's no connection in any way between the two teams.

They have no relationship.

Do you think because they're giants, they're like brothers or something?

That might be the weirdest question I got in a long time.

I mean, that might,

and I think that's an honest question.

That might be the strangest question I got in a really long time.

And I want to give the big man a little love here because then he kind of regroups and then he goes off on a vintage, a vintage little runner here.

Yeah, as a matter of fact, they have the giant picnic.

They hold it over in Totowa, I think it is.

Totawa.

And then they have the

giant relay race and the giant raffle.

And then they all get together for the giant breakfast the next morning, and then they go their separate ways.

It is true.

It's a July weekend every year when it happens.

Yeah, and then the Rangers in Texas and the New York Rangers have the same thing.

They meet usually in Abilene and have that in August every year.

Lundquist is particularly close to you, Darvish.

As a matter of fact, there's a kinship there between the two of them.

Here's the Mikman.

Here's the Mick Man.

Totoa.

Oh, man.

Where's Totoa in relation to where you live?

Probably about 25 minutes away.

That's what makes it really funny.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's go back to the phone lines.

Season finale.

Heed the call, season one.

Here we go.

Hey, heed the call.

This is Kyle.

I just want to shout out to Dan, Connor, Jordan, Michael, Justin, all the guys.

Been a listener since 2014.

Just wanted to ask if you guys have any advice on how to remain a fan of a perpetually mediocre team like the Cowboys.

I'm 31 years old and I've never seen the Cowboys win a division playoff game.

Should I just go the ROP Low route and wear an NFL logo hat and stop supporting ineptitude?

Just curious on your guys' thoughts.

Love the show.

Keep on heeding the call.

Thank you, Kyle.

Yeah, like I support a bad team, and that just actually leads to a lot of crippling self-doubt and obviously a lot of pain and denial

and all that stuff.

But in the case of fandom of a Cowboys fan, to be specific, and that really, I thought that really crystallized it,

what Kyle said there, that he's 31, which would mean he was born

in 1994,

right?

He has never seen, well, that wouldn't be right, right?

Because they won the Super Bowl, but he was a toddler or whatever.

But like, he has never, as a fan, seen them even win so much as a divisional round game.

It's, it's tough.

I don't know what you do other than do what you have to do as a fan and try to stay optimistic and hope that this is the year.

And be grateful that you're not a fan of the true losers.

Yeah.

Like me and Mark, for instance.

I mean, this is for, what's his name?

His name is Kyle.

Kyle, first of all, this is your fault for picking the team that was in the Super Bowl all those years and thinking like, oh, Emmett Smith's going to be around forever and Troy Aikman.

Like, this is partially your problem.

And what I would ask is, this is so terrible for you that between 2021 and 2023, you won 12 games three years in a row.

You had some of the best players in the NFL.

You've won at least double-digit games six times since 2014.

And this is not enough for you somehow?

I don't understand.

This, like, it's a button pusher for me because

what do you want?

from life, from the world.

Like, what does sports owe you that it hasn't given you?

Like a Super Super Bowl?

And then what?

What happens the next day in Kyle's house?

I don't understand

the need for this.

Well, now you're seeing now you're the grizzled sports writer move.

Like, nothing matters, really.

How does it change your life?

Like, I can't get with you on that.

Nothing happens matter.

Like, I still think about when the, like, when, when we played that clip from Mike Francesca, the Orioles were 12 games up in the division back then.

That was

14.

That was the year that my wife and I fell in love.

It was like our fourth date.

We went to Camden Yards to watch them beat the Devil Rays.

I remember everything about that season.

I remember David Simon from The Wire writing an essay about it for Sports Illustrated.

I have that.

That's in my little memory book, and that's a very special thing.

That's enough for me.

I don't need to do this performative thing where it's like, oh, we have all these awesome players and we got knocked out in the playoffs again.

You were in the playoffs.

Like, that's.

All right.

So, okay.

So, you're actually not the right person for this, this particular thing.

I am.

Let me tell you, because forget about the Jets.

The Jets are horrible, okay?

But like the Cowboys, we'll use more of an apples to apples.

The Cowboys to say the Yankees.

Now you're a Yankees fan.

What could a possibly a Yankees fan complain about?

We haven't had a losing season since 1992.

Holy shit.

We spend money.

We have a contender almost every year.

And when we don't have a contender, when we have an off-season, we go out and we get Cece Sabathia or we go out and we get Juan Soto.

Like the team is always in the mix.

So yes, I will never, as a fan of the Yankees, say like, oh, you should feel sorry for us.

But there is an interesting little wrinkle to fandom.

And Packers fans are in the same place because I could tell you this because when I was writing and talking about the pain rankings, ranking the most pain franchises, Packers fans would always be like, what about us?

I know we're not losers, but to get year after year to get your hopes up that this is the year and then to get smacked down every year.

It's not as, it's, it's, it's not as miserable an experience and painful as the not having hope.

Because as I've said many times, and this is where the Jets have failed and the Orioles have become this type of team as well.

When they take away hope, it's the one thing that as an organization you owe your fans is to give them hope.

But there is really a frustration to being that team that's good but can't get over the hump, not just for a year or two years or three years, but many years.

And it starts to feel like you're the Sisyphus, you're putting the rock up, and then it just knocks you down again.

And nobody feels bad for the Packers fan or the Cowboys fan, or certainly not the Yankees fan, but there is a frustration to that type of experience as well.

And I think it...

I see it.

You are seeing Cowboys fans, but just know we can't really talk about it in mixed company because it's going to piss people off, okay?

I would say this, and this is from a meta 30,000-foot view.

I've dealt with every fan base in the NFL.

Enjoy that window of time where you're kind of almost there because every fan life cycle is hopeless and miserable.

And then, wow, we're spunky and we got a chance.

Oh, we almost made it.

And to me, that's peak fandom, right?

Because once you cross the Rubicon into Giant Patriots asshole or Seahawks post-Legion of Boom asshole or Carolina Panthers fans 15-1 season asshole.

Hey, don't lose your fight.

You've got to include the Eagles fans on that one.

Go ahead.

Don't be afraid.

I know you're thinking.

I don't have to do anything I don't want to do.

He's thinking it.

He's just afraid to say it now.

No,

I think Eagles fans have it right.

But a lot of Eagles, because Eagles fans were always assholes, right?

Regardless of whether the team was good or bad.

All these other fan bases become assholes because they're successful.

And I think that's a different thing.

Enjoy it.

Enjoy not being an asshole.

100% agree with you, Connor.

I went on a rant a few, like, I don't know, month, a couple of months ago or something about how toxic ring culture has become where it's like championship or bust.

And I get it like going into a season, there's always going to be a handful of teams who are on championship or bust.

But if that's your experience as a fan, you are missing out on basically what you said, Connor, that there are a lot of good times, good moments and memories you can make without winning the championship

of whatever sport you're looking for.

Good job, guys.

Hey, Bills fans, I see you.

I see you.

No, oh my gosh.

I see you.

No, no, this doesn't involve you guys anymore.

Bills fans, I see you.

I understand where you're coming from.

Stop.

I know that's there's challenges as well to that.

Packers fans, I see you.

Cowboys fans.

Vikings fans.

Ooh.

Vikings fans.

Oh, yeah.

It's so terrible.

You're seen, and you're safe here.

All right, next.

Hello, HQC crew.

This is Ted Cullinan from New Hampshire.

I got a question for Tugboat himself.

You're a fan of a loser team.

If you were to start over, do it all again.

Pick from scratch.

Going back to your childhood, what of any team in the NFL would you like to grow up as a fan of?

All right, Tugboat.

Looking forward to the show.

Thank you, Ted.

There's not enough Teds anymore.

We need more Teds.

Name your kids Theodore.

Make them Teds.

Make Ted great again.

That one's easy for me.

The Giants.

I would have been a Giants fan.

And it doesn't mean like, don't read into that thinking that I secretly root for the Giants or any of that shit because I have a lot of ill will towards the Giants because I've watched, had the front row seat for a lot of glory.

But I came very close to being a traditional New York fan

in terms of finding my alley, which would have been

Yankees, Giants, Knicks, Rangers.

But somehow, through my dad, the Jets got in the mix and really messed up the formula.

But the Giants fandom is frustrating.

And again, Giants fans are very frustrated about the past decade or so.

That I have less sympathy for because it's like, relax.

You've won rings periodically since 86, and you could deal with down cycles because ultimately the organization seems to run well overall during this time, and you always find your way.

That would have been the Giants fandom.

If you want to talk about like a fandom that is the most,

and Giants fans are going to scream about this because they think they've really been going through it the last few years, and they kind of have, but like, you want to talk about what's

the best for your mental health football fandom out there?

You can make a case for the Giants as that organization that you're in good hands.

You could, you know, there are a couple others.

Maybe we could talk about that.

Like the Steelers fans, you're in good hands.

Packers fans, you're in good hands.

But the Giants fans have always,

there's always been a payoff to these droughts in these dark periods.

And I think unless ownership is losing the plot, there will be a payoff again down the road.

So yes, that would be my answer to that.

Thank you, Ted.

What do you think, Connor?

That's a great question.

And oddly, I would have, you know, because growing up in Northeast PA, it was kind of Eagles, Steelers were options, but I didn't really realize as much as I'd listened to WFAN and was in that culture because we got it locally there, I probably wish I had been a Jets fan.

And the reason that I say that is because...

I'm uniquely obsessed with regime changes and buying in to different things.

And I think that the Jets would have offered a lot of that for me over time.

Like, I think I would have really liked going the Eric Mangini route and then going the Rex Ryan route and then going the Todd Bowles route.

You know, I think I really would have liked kind of going through that ebb and flow before it eventually got aggravating for me.

You think that in this alternate sliding doors reality, you could have talked yourself into the Adam Gase era?

Oh, I did just covering the NFL.

Yeah, I grew up

600% could have.

I still think,

and this is an insane take probably for a lot of you out there, but if Mike McCagnum wasn't the GM, I think that Adam Gace would still be the head coach of the Jets.

That's a hot take.

You're also a big Chip Kelly guy.

You got a soft place in your heart for like geniuses of the turn of the decade.

Maybe.

Yeah.

Offensive gurus.

That's like 2008 is kind of like your ballywick.

Yeah, it's like my, that's my alt rock period.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

All right.

What else we got?

Hey, yo,

second time caller, long time listener, second time caller because I just called and absolutely biffed my voicemail.

So I'm going to give this one a shot again, try to make it quick and easy.

On the first day of every single NFL season, I create an Excel sheet that essentially predicts the entire season.

I go through every single matchup.

I even go to the next one.

I'm just kind of curious: is this psychotic?

Is this something you guys are interested in doing?

It takes me about two and a half hours.

I got like three to four of my friends in it.

There's money on the line now.

It's a good time, but I just don't know if this is something that I created in a COVID stupor or if it's actually something that would be a lot of fun for maybe you guys and or some of the listeners.

All right, I know Justin wants me to cut this off, so we'll do.

Thank you very much.

Love the show.

All right.

Connor, you can take this one.

Yeah, maybe he got the idea from reading Sports Illustrated because we do that every year.

It's fun.

I like it.

Predicting every game is the ultimate way to project an upcoming NFL season because it's the only way to truly put your cojones on the line.

And I think that it erases a major, major

shortcoming in our business where there's a lot of shows and people and podcasts who get stuff clipped for social media and they'll be they'll just go through every team and talk about how they love every team.

Like, you know, it might be surprising this year, like the Panthers.

Like, and they don't mean that.

But if the Panthers are good, they'll tweet it eight weeks later and look like they're some sort of a savant.

I have to bang some team in that because we only have 272 wins to play with.

I have to take it to somebody.

And so I think that that is the fairest and the only real way to do this.

Well said.

I like that.

It can't make everybody have a good year.

Would it make sense?

Nope.

It's got to be the other side of it.

All right, next.

Hi, Dan.

It's Elise, Justin's mom.

Hey, just wanted to give you a personal invitation to the lake house.

Hope you can make it, and we'll see you soon.

Bye.

Oh,

party Elise has invited Moi to the lake house.

What the f?

I will watch my speed.

I did not hear an invite for Connor.

She did not.

Right back down the totem pole again.

I posted a photo

on Instagram

driving the boat on the lake this past weekend.

And

maybe Party Elise saw that.

And she said, you know, he's got lake house energy to him, Big Lake Energy.

And you do not

get lost in this conversation is i'm the only one who currently lives in a lake house i live in a lake house

every day it's fine

wait you live full-time at a lake house yes

we're lousy with lake houses we got lake houses everywhere on this show

Well, maybe you can get out on a little rowboat or some kind, show your lake house bona fides to Justin's mom, and you'll end up at the lake house, too.

I'm going to have to after this.

Just

again, like I was flying high with,

yeah.

Is the when you get married, Justin, next year

come in for the wedding, right?

Are we is there going to be an element where we might get a lake house invite?

Like, or is it, or is it going to be separate different areas of Texas?

It's a very large state.

Yeah, defined we.

Like you had married.

I think.

Is my wife invited?

Did I get a plus one?

So

your wife's invited to the wedding.

So actually, Jessica's parents are going to come to America and meet my parents for the very first time.

America.

During the wedding week.

And after the wedding, we are going to go.

We are going to take her parents to the lake so that they get to, they're big outdoors people, so that they get to experience it.

But I do think that's going to be like a smaller, intimate group of like greater Balabio.

Doesn't sound like I'm getting the wedding weekend invite to the lake house, but it there is an invite now officially out there for me,

not for not for Mark,

and definitely not for Connor.

If you want to come 4th of July, we always blow it out big time.

So that's you know the end of this week.

Oh, I bet.

If you can make quick plans,

get down.

We celebrate the stars and stripes at the lake house.

America, love it or leave it.

Oh,

okay.

Next.

Oh,

sorry.

Hello, Dan, Connor, and Justin.

I am Sarah, one of your dozens of female listeners.

And I would just like to start off by saying I think you are all looking cute today.

Complimentary.

My question is about going back, kind of looking back at the 2024 season.

I'm curious if you guys could run it back with one one major change and see what happened.

What would that change be?

For example, I would love to see the season if the Raiders had gotten Michael Pennix Jr.

and somehow also Brock Bowers.

I would just be obsessed with seeing how that would change the entire season.

And I think it's kind of interesting to think about that as a way of looking ahead to next season.

So I'll take my answer off the air.

Good question, Sarah.

Dozen.

There are dozens of them.

They're out there.

We just heard two in a row.

The one that came to mind for me, Connor, and

this is kind of forgotten, but how close, and I know this is going to be seeming very on-brand

for a certain segment of our audience and predictable, but how close the Eagles came to getting knocked out of the playoffs by the Los Angeles Rams?

And I want to, can you play it, Justin?

This completion from Matthew Stafford to Puka Nakua,

one and a half minutes to play, fourth quarter, Eagles holding on for dear life, six-point lead, and Nakua deep down the right sideline

from Stafford comes down.

They are first and 10 at the 22-yard line

with 1.25 to play.

And you give the Eagles a lot of credit, as you must, because at that point,

They stiffened up on defense.

The Rams did not punch it in, obviously.

And then the Eagles killed everybody else in the playoffs.

But it's not that necessarily I wanted to see, but it's just one of those

sliding doors moments.

What would have happened?

Because the thing I said about the Eagles that kind of got twisted a little bit was that I thought that there was a possibility that they were riding hide with Siriani, but when something, when, if something went wrong in the playoffs, I felt like that was a locker room that could have really curdled very quickly and gone sour.

and Siriani.

It's like it could have changed everything.

Sirianni could be out of a job.

I know it sounds crazy, but if they don't get that stand at home in the first round of the playoffs there, it could have changed everything.

It didn't happen, but that is a crazy moment to the season that doesn't get a lot of talk because now when people look back, Connor, at that Eagles

playoff run, everyone just remembers them killing everybody in their way.

Right.

And they were beating the Rams up pretty good early in that game.

Saquon had two long touchdowns in that game, but they almost got picked off in that game.

That's a great point because it exposes the postseason fallacy where then it just we cement everybody as a genius and they were the right team to do this when really it's just a couple of plays that go one way or the other.

I would, if I were to change one thing about last season, I would have just had Tyreek Stevens being looking at the f ⁇ ing ball during the Commander's Hail Mary because I think that this is a massive alternate universe where the Bears are four and two.

They're coming off their bye week.

If they just knock that ball down, they're five and two.

We don't know what becomes of the Commanders, but the Chicago Bears lost like eight straight games after that.

Matt Eberflus got fired.

Caleb Williams ends up going off the rails.

They get, they spend all this money to lure Ben Johnson away.

What if none of that happens?

What if Eberflus wins enough games to get to like eight and nine, and you think things are going to maybe you just change offensive coordinators?

Now maybe Ben Johnson's in Jacksonville or maybe Ben Johnson's in Vegas.

And then where's Pete Carroll and all this?

And, you know, there's so many kind of alternate universe scenarios that come with that one play

that that is one of my favorite what-if moments from last season.

Probably the what-if moment.

I mean, are we even talking about the commanders as the commanders?

You know?

I think the Bears, as crazy as it seems, dodged a bullet, though.

The worst thing that could have happened was that Ibraflu somehow holds on to that job.

And I just felt like if that

they were, I felt like that team was going to collapse one way or the other.

That obviously created the true collapse of the team.

But

yeah, I think they ended up in a good place for the organization going into this year.

But yes, that changed everything around them.

All right.

Let's roll.

Hi, this is Morten from Denmark.

So back in the day, I went into couples therapy with my wife, and I found out that I was the problem, and I couldn't really show my emotions.

So I had to work on that.

And then one day, on my way to work, I pulled over because I cried,

learning that Lakeisha and Chris Wesling was having a baby boy.

And so my question is, to what extent did you know that this was the effect that you could have on people when you set out to do a football podcast with a touch of mirth?

Thanks for the best podcast ever.

I never miss a show.

Bye-bye.

Oh, Martin.

Wow.

Man,

in therapy with the wife, realizes he's the problem.

I don't know.

He was unable to

process emotions, but the Wes Lakeisha pregnancy announcement did it.

That's quite touching.

And I do, I remember that.

I remember when that happened, and I remember what a great moment that was in the studio.

It was at the old studio in Culver City.

And

that is the,

you know, all the sadness around what would end up happening to Wes and the fate,

the cards that were dealt to Wes getting sick the second time, because that was in between.

Wes got cancer, got better, got married,

had Link, and then got sick again.

And

then we lost him, but Link is the, he is the Link.

He is the link to Chris, and he is the, what, of all the ugliness and shittiness of that 2020

as

we were losing Chris, knowing that Link was able to, in that short window, they had

Lakeisha and Chris, where they could be happy and healthy together, that they were able to bring Link into the world was kind of a miracle.

And

I think we're going to see Link's going to come stay with us and Lakeisha this summer.

And, you know, seeing where Link is now as he gets older and seeing how similar he is to Chris and looks and even the way he moves and walks is very

an amazing thing.

And

to what Martin said, no, we didn't think any of that stuff could ever happen doing the football show.

But I think what I'm proud of, both what we did at ATN and what we're doing here at Heed the Calls, that this is real and it's real friendship and it's real conversations.

And

it's not just talking, popping the hood on analytics and digging in on football.

It's about our lives and who we are as people.

And that stuff comes out.

And

the audience reacts to it because we all

are all one here, you know?

So very nice nice i hope martin

connor i hope martin from denmark and his wife are in a good place now sure yeah um that was kind of my that was my follow-up thought there um

you know just to put a button on it on my end i always felt like I always felt like and still feel like a fan of the show that just gets to come on sometimes.

And so I view it from a lens of like, I feel like I'm the luckiest ATN fan or Heed the Call fan that there is because the hosts of the show have had such an amazing impact on my life, but that I actually get to come and to do it.

So for me, I'm almost looking at it more from Martin's side where I agree with him.

You know, there's a lot of these big moments in my life that I associate with episodes that I wasn't even on and episodes that I was on.

And so

it's a pretty spectacular thing.

Yeah, we grew up like as, I guess as men, you could say, like on the show in our 30s, like some listener sent in something to me or tweeted me, like, oh, here's a link to when you announced, like, that

you and your wife were having your second child.

I was like, wow, like, that's all there.

Like, if I choose to go back and listen, like, every like getting engaged, married, babies, uh, the loss of Chris, and and you know, all that, like, it's there's a lot of life that has been lived on the show for all of us.

And yeah, anyway, what else, Justin?

Hi, this is Morton from Denmark again.

I just wanted to let you know that I'm still together with my wife today and will be till the end of time.

Oh,

bye-bye.

Yes!

Yeah!

Till the end of time.

Hell yeah.

Show your emotions, Martin.

Hi, Danny and Connor.

This is Nick.

I'm from Long Island, New York.

I love the show.

Danny, I'm a fellow New York jet suffer here.

I was just wondering, what do you think of Fields as a starting quarterback next year?

Do you have a stout line that you'd be comfortable with for him?

Nice, fellas.

Take care.

I mean, I know this isn't the case for everyone, but as someone that is a California, a New York transplant plant in California, that was like a warm blanket being wrapped around me just hearing Nick from Long Island.

Yeah, we could be quick on this one, but like Justin Fields to me was a very sensible move for where the Jets are as a team in transition after a failed experiment that lasted two years with Aaron Rodgers and everything that went around that.

I have optimism that he could be productive.

I'm not expecting him to become a superstar, but I do.

This is what I would sign up for, Connor.

And tell me if this is crazy, okay?

I can see

like 3,500 yards.

If he stays healthy, you know, 21 to 23 touchdown passes,

800 yards rushing, six or seven touchdowns on the ground.

I would take that season, and I feel like that would bring the Jets

offense into a place of competitiveness.

So is that, am I expecting too much from Justin Fields?

Can he deliver that type of, like kind of a good but not great dual threat quarterback season?

So 3,500 yards would be about 1,000 more than his career career high.

And I'm not saying that that's impossible.

I'm just saying because he hasn't.

Is that true?

He's never had a 3,000-yard season?

He's had a 2,500, 2,562

is his career high.

However, there's not a lot of, you know, what I think a 15-game season is his largest sample size.

So you have to take that into account.

I think my biggest thing, and I think that the way that the Jets are viewing this is as explosives.

This is an offense that cares about explosives.

Can you score a lot from 20 yards out?

I don't really, you know, would it be great to double your TD to int ratio, like 20 touchdowns, 10 picks?

Yeah.

Would it be great to maybe throw for 3,000 yards?

Yeah.

But I just think up the completion percentage, move the drives, and hit a couple explosives.

That's what the Jets want out of their quarterback.

And if Fields can deliver that, I think this is going to be a good team.

Good enough.

God, we're due.

We're so due, baby.

All right.

What's next?

Hey, Dan.

This is Brian in Toledo,

Ohio.

I think of you as like the official ombudsman of Hard Knocks.

I have a 10-year-old son who is football crazy right now.

And I wonder what is the best season of Hard Knocks for a 10-year-old to watch.

Any thoughts on that?

Thanks.

Hi in the ark.

A little bit of a trick question there because how old is the son?

Do you say 10?

It's 10.

Yeah.

It's funny because the best seasons of hard knocks are the ones or not the modern era when it's been sanitized by the NFL, but the ones where it was pretty raw and the language was really salty, a lot of F-bombs being thrown around.

And yeah, like the, I think the Jets hard knock season, the first one, 2010, was really entertaining.

I really enjoyed the Browns' hard knock season that occurred about five or so years ago, just because that was one of the last years where you really, NFL Films was allowed to really take you behind the curtain, even if it didn't look great for the team.

And there were some great storylines there with Young Baker and who's the

line coach, Anthony Wiley.

Oh, Bob Wiley.

Bob Wiley.

Good friend.

A lot of characters on that team.

Those are two seasons that stand out to me.

How about you, Connor?

I think that

the two best seasons of all time are the 2001 Ravens.

That season is unstoppable.

That's what ignited the entire franchise.

I think as long as you have your finger on the beat button, like Justin does so well in this, you'll be able to get your son through that.

And that might actually ignite his love of football.

And the part that I loved about football the best, right?

Which is when you're hanging out in camp and doing crazy shit with one another.

And then the Jets won just because of the intrigue.

We had the chase for Revis.

We had the meeting at the Roscoe diner.

There were so many great little moments that unfolded there.

Possibly a Connor Orr appearance there in the background somewhere.

Oh, hello.

Oh,

yeah.

Possibly.

Also, Rex at the apex of his powers as

you know, having charisma and

being quotable.

And let's go get a damn snack and all that.

So, yeah, if you feel comfortable with your

son hearing some language that he's probably already hearing in school at this point anyway,

let it rip.

What else we got?

A couple more.

Hey, fellas, Ryan here from St.

Paul, Minnesota.

Say, I was just wondering, does Andy Dalton know about the Dalton line?

Let's hear your thoughts.

Thanks, guys.

You're the best.

Oh, that's interesting, Ryan.

I think Andy Dalton, I don't think Andy Dalton knows about the Dalton line, but you never know.

But I do think,

this is what I do think.

It got me, this gets me thinking about less about Andy Dalton's knowledge of this podcast or one of our segments and more like that.

Are you the Dalton line at your own job?

Oh,

like you ever think about that?

Like,

where do you fit in within your at your company?

Are you on the right side of the Dalton line?

And if you are,

great.

And if you're not, head on a swivel.

But what if you are the Prime Meridian?

Oh, so maybe, like, that's more almost like, I just want, I want the audience to just maybe even hit pause and just think about where you sit on your own Dalton line.

I would think if Andy Dalton ever heard this, he would find it to be patently ridiculous.

But maybe if he was able to reflect a little bit, it would strike him as like maybe he could reflect on his career and what he achieved.

But I almost rather he doesn't know about it.

I think Andy Dalton absolutely knows about the Dalton line.

And I think that, like most people,

probably reads a lot of his comments,

this has probably come across his radar at one point or another.

And he is just very practiced in

saying that he doesn't read or see any of this kind of stuff.

That's, that would be my guess.

All right.

Interesting.

Where do you fall on the Dalton scale?

All right.

Next.

Hey, Dan and Connor.

It's Brian from the Carolinas.

Why haven't any NFL teams put a really tall guy on their team?

You know, your Yao Mings, your Manukau's, your Taco Falls.

I get that these guys are

very limited in many ways.

But you need a short first down, just a soft, short pass to Yao Ming for the first.

The other team's kicking a field goal?

Nope.

George Murassan to block the kick.

We all want this to happen.

Why has George Murathon?

Should NFL coach could make our dreams come true?

Love the show.

Join the Patreon.

Very nice.

Nice, Brian.

This is a great one, Brian, from the Carolinas.

And

I think part of the reason you don't see it is because these teams are so

they take the draft process so seriously that they would never be able to make such a flippant move and I think it's done out of fear it's like the guy that they take

the guy they sign off the street after the draft

um

who they have as a maybe if it works out he's a gunner on special teams or maybe he's like the fifth string cornerback and they just have him as like a developmental guy that someone in the building vouch for and likes a lot but the chances of that type of player ever making a tangible impact in your team it's like one

and a thousand.

And yet, if you took, we're talking about the guys that have like the thing, like the gigantism not gigantism whatever it is the pituitary gland thing that makes them gigantic like andre the giant murasan those types like the seven seven

you know 440 uh mountains of men why not stick them in front of the place kicker with the game on the line and i you get there's nothing else you get out of him Because he,

what Brian also mentioned was put him in the red zone.

I'm less less interested in that because it takes a level of athleticism to get to the spot, even if it's like third and goal and then turn around.

Then you got to catch the damn ball.

But if we're talking just about putting somebody up almost like a tree in front of the kicker, I feel like that could make a difference more than just a flyer on some guy that you saw at the senior.

the senior bowl or whatever.

Go ahead.

I have actually a couple of thoughts on this.

The first first is that this is a version of my favorite argument that I have with hockey fans.

I hate hockey fans, and I always say, why wouldn't more than Ohio?

Like, who do you hate more?

Hockey fans of the state of Ohio.

Worst.

Speaking of West, did you know that the Wesling brothers both contacted me?

Two of the Wesling brothers.

Contacted me, Phil and Nick, expressing disapproval and disappointment that you would be so anti-Ohio.

No.

Where they, you know, born and raised and

love the state of Ohio.

And you said that the only reason we were talking about our speeding conversation, you said people speed in Ohio because they can't wait to get out of the state.

I don't know if you had an official statement on that.

Oh,

man.

Talk about like the two people I wouldn't want to offend out of all this.

You know, I almost moved to Cincinnati.

I had to try to talk my wife into moving to Cincinnati.

I like Cincinnati very particularly, but Shadir Sanders isn't in Cincinnati.

So I don't know.

But anyway, I'm going to try to dance around that and

just get to this, that I

always said to hockey fans, why wouldn't you hire a morbidly obese person like Brandon Frazier in the whale and stick him in goal because he engulfs the entire

cover, though, yeah.

So you can't, and then, you know, they would talk about Henrik Lundquist or whoever gives a shit.

And then I lost interest in the conversation.

But here's why.

There's a couple of reasons why, right?

Like, let's say you sent george mirrors on or yao ming out for a pass they're seven feet seven tall they don't really have a vertical and so they can probably get up to like eight feet tall patrick sutan is six feet tall and has like a three and a half foot vertical he would just jump in the air and spike it down and the the receiving

end of it is null and void.

Like there's not going to really be an advantage there because your cornerbacks are so athletic.

I think that the ultimate comp in that would be someone like Kyle Pitts, Pitts, who's 6'8 and was attractive because of his height, but gets hit in the rib cage and in the hips so much that he struggled with injuries throughout his career.

And so I think that's another reason why you don't see a lot of tall people in the NFL.

But an interesting question.

Give it a try.

Like, what's the worst that can hurt?

You get a giant person a little work.

You get him an NFL pension potentially or a piece of it.

Come on, make it happen.

All right, one more.

By the way, it says here, I thought that you were generous there.

It says Kyle Pitts is 6'6 ⁇ .

Did you say 6'8?

Closer to 6'8.

That's like when they said Hulk Hogan was 6'8, 303, but he was really

6'6, 260.

Yeah.

All right.

Last one.

Last call.

Last call.

I like the idea because this is like a supersized episode of He the Call to End the Season that we also have to beat it every year and make it longer and make sure that Mark is on the episode next year so he has to sit through the whole thing.

And if you've made it this far into this episode, thank you.

You guys are the best and we love you.

Okay,

last caller.

Hey, guys, this is Paul from Florida.

Longtime listener, huge fan of Dan, Justin, all the guys.

I've got an off-season question for you.

Imagine a future in which one of your children marries the child of a current NFL head coach.

Which NFL head coach would you choose to be your child's future father-in-law and why?

Thanks.

There's only one answer to this question.

Someone came to mind to me immediately.

I want to hear who you have.

It's Pete Carroll.

Period.

That's a good one.

That's it.

Like there's no, like, to me, I can argue my way out of any other answer there.

I think it's Pete Carroll.

That's a really safe, strong

answer.

I would not involve Carroll because as many listeners know, My mom has long had a crush on Pete Carroll dating back to 1994 and his year as the Jets head coach.

So I feel like out of respect for my dad, I wouldn't want to bring Carol into the picture.

It's just too much.

It's like my parents are celebrating their 50th anniversary.

They just did.

And we're going on a trip to celebrate that.

And

what kind of son would I be?

The firstborn son

to bring Pete Carroll into the structure via a marriage of a hypothetical daughter or whatever.

Now, I want to say the person that came to my mind, that's a great answer.

For personal reasons, I can't bring Pete in.

Mike McDaniel, I feel like is just somebody I'd like to have around at the barbecues.

I'd like to play cornhole with Mike McDaniel.

I'd like to chop it up.

I'd love to

get, you know, have a few, well, he doesn't drink anymore, but I'd like to hang out late night and maybe he gets a little high.

I can see him smoking a little bit, and I'm having a Tito's soda with a slice of orange.

And we just watch Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

Like we just watch the whole thing and he has takes and he's interesting and he's funny.

So and I think he's a good provider for my hypothetical daughter as well.

So I'm going to say Mike McDaniel.

Just the first thing that came to mind.

I don't know why.

Yeah.

Mike flashed into my head.

Wow.

So I think about what you want.

from a father-in-law and I'm

blessed in that department.

But Pete Carroll, he brings a lot of that to the table, very encouraging.

So, as a son, you know, if your kid marries Pete Carroll's daughter, whatever,

let's say you lose your job or things get a little tight, he's always going to be motivational.

He's not going to make you feel like an asshole because you're not earning money and bringing something to the table.

I think has a sick pad in Hawaii, which would kind of be like a built-in kind of free vacation thing with the kids.

You could probably get out there.

He might pop for the plane tickets, that kind of thing.

So, I think that there's just a lot there

and just what he brings to the room vibe-wise.

Whereas McDaniel, I feel like, and I might get in trouble saying this because I love Mike McDaniel, but I feel like is probably a net takeaway when you're entering a room, whereas Pete Carroll is a net add, where if you get all different kind of personality types together in a room, Pete Carroll's going to win that room, whereas McDaniel is probably going to win like two people,

and then he's probably going to lose like six people, right?

And so I think, you know, know, we got to.

I don't mind that ratio.

I want a guy who's going to mix things up.

Now, one thing that I might have gotten wrong with this, for some reason, I was imagining a scenario where

my

child is marrying the coach himself, but we're saying this is the offspring of the coach.

Of the coach, yes.

That's why I was really concerned about the Pete Carroll situation.

But

yeah, that makes more sense also.

Right.

So, like, think about it this way: perfect example, right?

Big moment for your in-laws are like, uh, or your kids'

father, whatever, your kids, your son's mother-in-law, father-in-law.

Yes.

Wedding speeches, engagement speeches.

Do you trust McDaniel in that spot to bring it home and to not really just rub, again, like 60% of the room the wrong way when you fing know Pete Carroll is going to bring that house down?

He's going to look hot.

He's going to be tan.

Like the whole thing's just.

I'm telling you, I'm not pushing back on Carroll.

I think it's a great choice.

Yeah.

I don't mind having McDaniel get up there and get a little bit out of pocket.

And then later, we're belly up at the bar.

He orders a seltzer.

He's not a drinker anymore.

And I'm saying to him, man, I know some people are unhappy with you right now.

But I just want to let you know I'm really happy that we're a family now.

And I enjoyed that.

And don't change who you are.

Don't ever change.

Just be you because I find you entertaining.

I find you to be an interesting person.

And the one thing this family really is short on are truly interesting people.

All right.

Thank you for being you, Mike McDaniel.

I fing love you, Mike McDaniel.

You are, who is he?

In this scenario, he becomes, what is he to me?

He's my,

if my,

my son, one of my sons, marry his daughter.

What is our connection?

Do we have a title together?

Just your your kids

in-laws is there like is there like a term for that is what you're asking

i don't know i guess not but whatever that is if there's a term out there i'm happy that like we're all under this we're in the same family tree now okay it's not the forget about the shanahan tree that mcdaniel's in no no no no no but now you're in the hands of this tree you bringing You bringing McDaniel into the fold is interesting because when he said that, like

every other coach that I'm just Rolodexing through my mind is an immediate no because 99% of NFL head coaches are like ruthless, ladder climbing,

you know, emotional or, you know, like slogan saying, you know, fireball.

They're kind of potentially like alpha bullies or like they shake your hand too hard to show that they're in control.

And yes.

I don't have to worry about that.

I don't have to worry about that with Pete either, which again is why it's a great call.

Pete's going to be, I've met Pete Carroll.

He's a very real man, right?

Mike, I don't have to worry about it either.

I don't have to worry about the overly firm, look at me, I'm the true man handshake, which is one of my least favorite moves that anyone does.

I am very comfortable as a man around other men, and I will give you a nice handshake, but I'm not trying to win any competition.

And when you do that, Mike Vrabel, for example, absolutely Vrabel does that as an example.

To me, that's a la ravio magnifico.

When I shake hands with Mike McDaniel, it's going to be a wet noodle.

And I'll say, you know what?

I don't take that as you being less of a man.

That's a man that has nothing to prove.

You're going to give him one of these,

like the 18th century kingfingers.

Like, hello.

Like,

I'm going to take Mike by the hand, and I'm going to feel it like it's going to be like, yeah, a play of pasta in my hands.

And I won't judge it for.

All right.

Yes, Justin.

Don't say Brian Callahan.

According to Wiktionary,

the relationship between you and your child's in-laws is best described as co-parents-in-law.

Stupid.

No, I dismissed that out of hand.

But thank you, Justin.

Thank you, Justin, for everything

this first season.

You are an MVP.

There's nobody better in the business of producing a sports.

Justin has been an asset to us, man.

Absolutely, Mike Tomlin.

You are 100% correct.

So thank you to Justin.

Connor, you are the man, buddy.

You are the breakout star of season one, and it's fitting that you are finishing out this season with me and with us, and the audience.

And the audience appreciates you too.

Thank you very much.

And yes, thank you to Jordan Rodrigue and Michael Sean Dugar, who did and have done so much great work for this show.

Jordan was just on the show last week, and it was great to have her on.

We're going to have them on going forward in season two of Heed the Call, and of course, to the great Mark Sessler, who's out there somewhere.

And

going on this adventure with Mark as my partner in crime

has been

always exciting and always not always predictable.

There are twists and turns.

But Mark and I are

very lucky to have each other and very appreciative of Mark.

And I can't wait till he gets back.

And Training Camp arrives for another year of coverage of professional football here.

Heed the Call.

So

with that said, everyone, enjoy these next few weeks of summertime.

And we'll be back as Training Camp gets underway across the country.

And until then, do what you must.

Heed the call.

Popsicles, sprinklers, a cool breeze.

Talk about refreshing.

You know what else is refreshing this summer?

I'll brand new phone with Verizon.

Yep, get a new phone on any plan with Select Phone Trade-In in MyPlan.

And lock down a low price for three years on any plan with MyPlan.

This is a deal for everyone, whether you're a new or existing customer.

Swing by Verizon today for our best phone deals.

Three-year price guarantee applies to then-current base monthly rate only.

Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.