Minicamp Madness: Bengals, Fish Tank, Dawg Pound, Stefon Diggs, and MORE!

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The Heat the Co Podcast

just wants to be a servant leader here.

Welcome to Heed That Call.

Heeding That Call Dan hands us Mark Sessler, Connor Orr, Justin Graver on the ones and twos.

Oh man.

Oh man.

Aaron Rodgers.

Reported to Steelers camp.

And yeah, let's just play a...

We'll get to some Rodgers.

But

that clip, let's start there.

What he said there.

I think I just want to be a servant leader here and just pass on the knowledge that I have with 20 years, the experience, and just try and fit in with the guys, get to know them, let them get to know me, and just enjoy the process.

I looked up because I said servant leader.

Just kind of ridiculous phrase or term.

Very religious.

Yeah, and I, thank you, Mark.

Mark, the holy man of the group.

No, I'm just saying that that's, it's, it's, it, in, in, that's stable, you know, in the church world, I think it's, it's something you'd hear.

And this is, according to the AI overview on Google.

This is, Mark, I go for spirituality.

This is where I go to just the hard info.

A servant leader prioritizes serving others and empowering them to grow rather than solely focusing on personal goals or power.

Yes, when I think of Aaron Rodgers,

that's what I think of.

That's the connection point I get.

And let me just say, let me just say, boys, that

because there's been some pushback on Tugboat.

Look at Dan being all negative on Rodgers now that he's not on the Jets.

Sure.

But I think, first of all, all, it's like, and then there are other people who are like, oh, this is so funny.

Like Dan now, you know, clamoring,

ringing the alarm bell when we were doing the same thing for him, to him two years ago.

Fair.

It's a fair point.

I will just, a minor,

a minor little pushback on that is that was two years ago.

That was before an Achilles tendon exploded and Rogers was like, I don't know, a couple years removed from back-to-back MVPs.

This feels a little bit different, the landscape, but I see your point on that.

Okay.

But don't, what I'm trying to say is don't get mad at me because I'm using this platform to honestly try to, I feel for the Steelers fans out there, like the Dave Damashek's out there, although Dave's eyes are wide open on this and have been since the start of all this.

Picture me as Linda Hamilton's character in T2.

You know when she's the scene where she has the flashback, the dream sequence of the nuclear

attack on the city, and she's

yanking on the chain link fence she's yanking on the fence and she's trying to warn the mothers and the children in the playground

and then no one's hearing her and then sure enough the bomb goes off

that's me i'm i'm trying to warn no one's hearing me and i'm trying to warn all of pittsburgh that they are in grave danger

as i explode and melt

because of what happened to me in my aaron rods tenure as a Jets fan.

I think you're not unlike, you know, because first of all,

in a sports parallel, you have broken up with Aaron Rodgers at this point, the Jets fan in you and the Jets in general.

You've broken up with Aaron Rodgers.

And I think you're trying to warn the next guy or girl, whatever, watch out for this character.

Don't get involved with this.

But you have come out of the analogy

comparing yourself to

one of the more famous action stars of of the 80s and 90s.

I don't know how we got there.

One of the great heroines of 90s cinema.

How about this, Connor?

Like, I'll use a different analogy.

I am,

I know that there's a con man

who goes from town to town to steal all the money and impregnate all the women.

And here I arrive in this village, penniless and the father of a son who doesn't have my nose.

And I'm saying, run away from this man.

This man is going to take you for all you're worth.

Will someone listen to me?

Steelers fans, I'm trying to warn you.

All Jets fans are trying to warn you.

Don't fall for it.

Don't fall for it.

He's going to impregnate your women.

I mean, okay.

So

I channeled TNC Connor a little bit when I was thinking about what I wanted to say on this.

And people, for people that don't know, TNC, pre is this post-TNC or pre-TNC, Connor?

Post-TNC, Connor.

Post-TNC, there's more of a Zen-like viewpoint on life,

that shit happens in life, and it's all you kind of got to go with the flow.

It's more like almost like a deadhead viewpoint.

Yeah, it's a little philosophical.

It's coming from a place of maturity.

Go ahead, Connor.

And so, okay, we learned during his introductory press conference that

he was married

over the offseason, that he spent time taking care of someone in his inner circle who was struggling with cancer, dealing with cancer.

And I have to say, like, Aaron, for the last, I mean, whenever he kind of discovered this mindfulness thing, whether that was six years ago, five years ago, whenever he came out and started talking about it, I think sometimes with stuff like that, personal development, it just takes a while for the rubber to meet the road.

And for example, like I'll use my own life.

Like I was like, I will start thinking of other people people and not being an asshole.

And I kept telling myself this in my 20s, in my late 20s, in my early 30s.

And like, took a while, you know, and eventually it happened.

Like, I will mature.

I will stop doing this.

I will stop doing that.

And it took me a lot of iterations of myself to be to the point where I was like, okay, I feel like I'm less of a net negative on this situation.

And maybe, you know, he got married in a very quiet way.

He spent time taking care of someone else.

Like, sometimes that has a profound effect.

Like, you know, uh-oh, Dan.

Like, what if this is the time where the patty finally flips over?

You know, what if we, what if we're getting a new Aaron Rodgers that has been promised through all this?

What do you mean, uh-oh?

I'm inviting the possibility.

That's all.

Yeah, what does it mean?

It's positive and hopeful.

And, you know, it sounds like someone I would want in my town.

I mean, I don't like the impregnated

woman in the town very.

But my point being is what Connor is putting forth is the messaging of Aaron Rodgers when he comes to the village.

And you could choose to believe it.

And maybe, maybe he'll, at this village, it has come when he did actually mean it and he followed through on it.

And he did come to help the town.

And he did turn out to be a positive figure for everyone around.

But it's also possible that

the version of Aaron Rodgers that spoke to the media yesterday, even in his heart, he's saying these things because he believes them.

But then once you're rolling up your sleeves and you're digging through the county paperwork and you know where the where the soft spots are in terms of fraud possibilities and embezzlement and you and you know where all the skeleton keys are to get into the bedrooms, like maybe

who you truly are takes over in time.

So, Connor, this is post-TNC.

I respect it and I love you for it.

I just can't take that risk in my village.

Fair.

And the Steelers have decided to take that risk that this time he means it.

Because if you want to go back two years and listen to the initial press conferences, Aaron Rodgers is saying the same stuff.

That mindfulness was, it was there.

There was even more.

There was the hook, of course, of the infamous darkness retreat where he found some type of inner zen and clarity that he didn't before possess.

And then you saw what, ask Mike Williams what he thinks about all that talk when it's time for action.

So,

but it's fair.

I like that you said the other side of it.

That's fair.

Maybe he is going to be an angel and going to help this team.

We'll see.

Well, and I'll just finish with this because, and, and this, I, I said this with the Jets, and so I'm aware of that.

Um, and I'm aware that it was not accurate when he was with the Jets, even though, again, I, the internal perception of Rogers there and the external are different.

It's just true, and I, and I, and I know that to be true.

Um, there are still a lot of people who worked with him there that adored him, and that's a fact.

I can say that that's true to this day.

But

at some point, he has to stick the landing on his career to open up the possibilities of what comes next.

I mean, remember, at one point, he wanted to host Jeopardy.

He did it

and did a pretty good job of it.

Like, he wants more on the table than just internet provocateur, right?

He needs

options.

And in order to need options, you have to stick the landing.

This is the the last place to stick the landing.

And maybe this is that, that's the final nudge you need to get over that.

I don't know, but just a thought.

Let's see.

You know what the fun part of it is?

We get to see play out

over the next six months.

Yeah, we're in the middle of minicamp week, mandatory minicamp week.

And

part of mandatory minicamp week at this time, as we edge into mid-June, is the drama around players that aren't at the mandatory minicamp.

You have to be there.

You get fined if you miss it.

It's not anything, Connor.

Financially, it's not crippling the fee for missing it.

It's just, for us, it would be, but for these guys, it's still kind of a drop in the buck.

Do you know like a general range of what it is if you don't show up for the three-day mandatory camps here?

I thought, weren't they talking about like Shamar Stewart, for example?

It's like $100,000 or so.

I think if I saw that.

But is it like

it's relative to your contract, right?

Right.

Depending on where you are, but they often, then you figure it all out and they forgive the money after, too, have the time.

Well, Shamar Stewart's not even under contract, right?

So we'll get to Stewart in a second.

But anyway, so just so you know, like guys like Terry McLaurin, he skipped all of OTAs.

He's not present in Commander's camp.

He's seeking a new contract.

TJ Watt of the aforementioned Steelers, not present at mandatory minicamp.

He's looking for a better contract.

In those situations, and and take our word for it, because we've done this a long time, it's very likely that works out.

These guys will show up at training camp.

Now, they might be what we call hold-in, and they're going to, as they continue, if they don't have a deal done by July 22nd, they will hold in.

They'll be at camp.

They can't be fine, but they're not doing anything until there's some type of move.

And what ends up usually happening, three things could happen in this situation.

They get what they want, and they get a new deal that satisfies them.

The other option on the other end is the team says, screw off, and you have to eventually report unless you want to pull a Hassan Reddick and blow up your career.

Or there's also the third option, which is they're like, we're not going to give you what you want, but we'll give you

a little juice.

We'll give you something so

you save face and you maybe get a little more guaranteed money.

But ultimately, not much was done here.

And I think that's what's going to happen with McLaurin or Watt, right?

Trey Hendrickson in Cincinnati is a different situation.

Jamar Stewart, that's a little bit of a different situation.

Let's talk about that because Hendrickson, of course, just went through an offseason where the two big wide receivers got paid and nothing happened there with their most important defensive player.

Joe Burrow,

here's Burrow on the Hendrickson situation.

Hendrickson is the key to their defense and a guy that kind of is the lifeblood of that side of the team.

Here's Burrow on whether this has been a distraction to the team.

Is Trey not being here, his deal not done?

Is that a distraction?

Of course.

Of course.

Last year we had two.

This year we have one.

So we do have less.

You'd love to have none, but that's life in the NFL.

We're all supporting Trey and would love for him to be back.

And then the Shamar Stewart, who's their first-round pick.

He hasn't even started his Bengals career.

And

we've talked about how Cincinnati has a terrible reputation when it comes to being cheap and

causing issues where other teams tend to avoid issues.

And the Bengals

have opted to wedge a new clause into Stewart's deal.

The clause, his rookie deal, and these rookie deals, ever since they redid the CBA a few years back, they're pretty block and tackle.

There's some offset stuff that sometimes leads to it.

But usually the days of holdouts and Keyshawn Johnson showing up the day before week one, those days are long gone.

The Bengals, though, decided to wedge a new clause in Stewart's deal.

The clause would turn, this is according to Mike Florio, the clause would turn a default in any given year into a void of all remaining guarantees.

In prior Bengals contracts, a void wiped out only the guarantees for the year in which the default occurred.

Stewart refuses to be the guinea pig for the new term, and the Bengals refuse to blink.

So as a result, Stewart

is not around at minicamp, and who knows with training camp.

And then you have this kid.

and i'm totally on the side of shamar stewart on this um he's speaking out to the media about his contract fight with the team that drafted him two months ago we all agree trey will be right right

but technically still one percent wrong for being on the contract so in this in my case i'm 100 right so it should be a no-brainer

And in Trey's case, I think it should be a no-brainer too.

I'm not asking for nothing y'all never done before.

But in y'all case, y'all just want to win an arguments that are winning more games, in my opinion.

And I feel like you trying to implement something new to me is unfair.

And I feel like I've been nothing but fair.

Like, I'm not asking for nothing crazy.

I could understand if I was asked for more of my signing bonus, which I'm not.

But like,

they trying to do all this is

crazy.

I will say this about Shamar, and I think this is something that the fans don't necessarily understand.

Well, and I don't know how many, this is sort of tropey on my part, but to assume that all fans are just like, ah, shut up.

Like, you make a million dollars, sign your contract.

I think fans are smarter than that now.

But especially if you are in a players union and you are in a locker room with a players union rep, and that a lot of this stuff is precedent setting.

If you're Shamar Stewart and you take something that's disadvantageous in your contract, which then becomes precedent for other people in the locker room, you're setting yourself up for a bad time.

You're setting up other rookies for a bad time.

You're setting up other players on other teams.

Because if an owner sees this clause, he's on another team.

He's like, Oh, awesome.

I'm going to do this over here because now that guy's signing it and doesn't matter because now it's precedent.

And so I think it's a tricky situation.

And I would extend this to like anybody out there.

If you're in a teachers' union, if you're in any sort of a unionized workplace, if you jump out of bounds of the stream to

accept something that's worse for everybody else, you're going to have a bad time with your colleagues.

It's just a fact.

And he went out of his way to say, and I appreciate how

strident and outspoken he is on this issue.

I think he's well-spoken on the whole thing.

And you're exactly right, Connor.

And he talked about the fact that other players have been coming up to him and saying you're doing the right thing, especially star players.

And

this is a different team.

And we've known this going back to the days of Wes ranting about the Bengals and their culture.

They were going out of their way to nitpick a rookie contract that should be like a rubber stamp, right?

These things, like when they changed all of this, it took the drama out of these contracts.

And now they are, the Bengals specialize in creating this kind of cultural misfit with a new player.

And the Trey Hendrickson thing and this together are the perfect image of that.

And I just wonder, like from a larger perspective at some point, because this is the one team that had a quarterback say, a star quarterback say in Carson Palmer, I'm just not doing this anymore.

And I know things are a little bit better in Cincinnati.

They've gotten a little more course corrected.

It seemed that way.

And they've got a Super Bowl window.

And you've got the best player in your franchise history, arguably, in Joe Burrow.

What is the boiling point?

Because it seems like each offseason, he's got to deal with three or four things where it's like, can we just get this together?

Like, what is the boiling point where the Bengals organization is not learning how to be a modern franchise correctly with star players and rookies and everyone else.

It's like they stand out among other teams in the way they do business.

Yeah, your entire pass rush right now is sidelined.

Your entire pass rush, right?

The entire pass rush.

Maybe get the 17.

Exactly.

All right.

Let's see what else is going on around the NFL.

Let's jump into the fish tank.

It's been a while.

Ah, yes.

Ooh, chili.

The Miami Dolphins.

They have some of their own drama.

Every team has some type of contract drama in one form or another.

For them, it's tight end January Smith and cornerback Jalen Ramsey, not at mandatory minicamp.

Mike McDaniel confirmed Smith wants a new deal, so put him in the category of the other guys we mentioned earlier.

Ramsey and the Dolphins, as we know, are seeking a trade split.

So that's just a matter of when a team agrees to the terms Miami's put forth.

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Here's Mike McDaniel on the situation of star cornerback Jalen Ramsey.

Surprised that it's taken this long to find a resolution.

I don't personally,

and I would lump you into this this uh with me um i don't give a shit about what i feel um

like i'm not i i don't even really go down that road of how do i feel about it my job is to um uh react and control my controllables and uh make sure that people are moving in one direction appropriately

I love the I'm gonna lump you into this as well.

Yeah, that's pretty great.

And I think, I feel like if Mike McDaniel has sees a therapist, which is absolutely healthy, and

if it feels like something that you would help you, you should do it.

But I feel like his therapist would probably be like, hey, let's tap the brakes on I don't give a shit what I feel.

That's exactly what they're trying to get you.

I don't give a shit about what I feel.

Yeah, like, and Justin, we were talking about it offline, but yesterday,

I've grown to really love Mike McDaniel.

I don't know if he's ultimately ever going to be a truly successful head coach in the NFL, but I know he has a long future ahead of him, whether it is as a head coach or as an OC or whatever.

But he does these things, See.

I feel like you guys are maybe a little bit of spirit animals in some ways.

Like

he'll say something that on its face won't make sense.

And then because he talks and he talks and he talks, he'll then explain the seemingly nonsensical thing he just said.

And then you'll be like, oh, okay I know what you mean and then that's exactly what I want to pick it up here with McDaniel and the and the Jalen impasse because ultimately what he feels what he thinks about it

nobody should give a shit it doesn't matter it doesn't affect the final solution upcoming

I'm with you that I'm not sure what the destiny is for him in Miami but I do think that he's an interesting thinker.

And to your point, when he speaks,

it stands out to me the way he speaks verbally and the way he crafts words and phrases.

And there's a little bit of humor, wry humor woven into it.

If you listen to what he was saying, where he really, his job is to react and control, I think, his controllables, he said.

Sounds a little coachy, but you know what?

It's like, it's true.

It's like he's not in control of this.

Like the Jalen Ramsey thing, like also it's like,

it's going to get figured out, right?

He's not part of the plan for Mike McDaniel right now.

So it's like he can control the players he has on the field.

It's like, from that angle, I agree.

But like another coach would just say that in eight words, and he spins it through paragraphs and rivulets.

And it's like, wait, what happened here?

I'm kind of laughing.

I think he's serious.

You know?

Yeah, but Connor, let's learn from Jim Ursa, right?

Like, we had a little mea culpa on the show.

It was like, maybe we should have focused on that daddy was different and that he came from a different angle and enjoy what Ursa brings and how he's so different from all the other stiff oligarchs that dot this league.

Same thing.

I'm going to try personally to enjoy Mike McDaniel as long as we have him at this level of a platform.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

That's exactly what I was going to say.

I mean, do we really want to subject ourselves to

months and months and years and years of coaches just walking up there being like, separation's in the preparation?

Like, no, we want, we want this.

This is good.

It's different.

And different is great.

In other,

I don't give a shit about what I feel.

In other fish tank news, let's talk about the quarterback room, Zach Wilson,

former, what was he, number two overall pick of the New York Jets?

Yes.

I blocked that out of my memory.

It was also COVID.

It was the COVID spring.

So a lot of that stuff is hazy at this point.

Then he was in Denver for a pit stop last year.

Now he's in Miami trying to grab a spot on the roster behind Tua.

And it turns out, and this

blew my mind, guys, that Zach Wilson, like noted white, at least I thought, and like maybe world's most

blatant white, Zach Wilson.

Boyishly white, and I thought Mormon, I don't know, not even close to the world's most blatant white, but

I mean, he's a Mormon boy from Utah with you know, with the boyish face and the top, the tasseled hair.

I mean, he's, I mean, he's pretty white, and that's all right.

Listen, yeah, I'm white.

The rest of the development callback.

White power!

I'm white.

I'm just saying, like, I always thought thought he was like a white, white dude.

Apparently not.

Let's send it on this.

I don't think Tua knew I was Polynesian.

I don't think any of us did.

And he said that, like, they talk shop.

They talk Hawaii.

Like,

that's news to me.

That is absolute news.

Yes, Justin.

In the year 2020, Zach Wilson was a co-recipient of the 2020 Polynesian College Football Player of the Year award alongside Talanoa Hufunga.

Hufanga, I get it.

That's like, okay, obviously, yeah, give him the trophy.

Like, we got a synopso, so we know like how trophies are handed out and what it takes to win a trophy.

We got a sill telltale also.

But I never would have thought.

Can you do a little wiki search, Justin, on Zach Wilson?

I need more information on this.

Because one thing, like, if I'm not, if my memory serves,

his mom bubbled up into the media with a bunch of, like, Instagram or TikTok videos.

Mark, I know you, I know you.

Well, no, I'm just saying.

I'm not familiar with Zach Wilson's mother.

I'm saying she was not Polynesian.

So is the father of Polynesian origins?

I mean, like, I'm just wondering how that is.

That's what Justin is going to say.

What's going on here?

Yeah, exactly.

I also see a headline in the New York Post, quote, uneven Zach Wilson dolphin showing fuels familiar concerns.

I hope Zach makes it.

Oh, he seemed like a nice kid.

I don't know if it's a good thing.

It It even feels redundant when we're doing a headline about Zach Wilson.

You could just say Zach Wilson is Zach Wilson in

Zach wearing the number zero.

I just, I don't think, I don't think we need to do that.

I don't think we need to connect that.

I think visually it sends the wrong message to the coaching staff that you're trying to make a decision on your playing future.

And do you have any updates on the Wilson?

Who's his dad?

Yeah, like what's going on?

23 to me, Justin.

He is

part Hawaiian on his father's side.

His middle name is Kapono, which means righteous in the Hawaiian language.

I mean, we can't be the only ones just learning this, right?

No, I don't know.

Maybe we're way behind on this stage.

This has blown my mind.

All right,

Zach Wilson.

There you go, buddy.

And speaking of Tua,

I saw this pop up on Twitter earlier this week.

It was a tweet from Warren Sharp.

And

here, I'll read the tweet at Sharp Football.

Has Warren been on the old show?

I feel like he's not.

He hasn't, but he is a friend of the show.

He's a friend of the show.

He sent me his incredible

annual magazine, which is insane on an annual basis.

Sharp Football.

Like, yes,

Warren is a guy that you should be following because he knows his stuff.

Today alone, I've seen people refer to Tua as Colon.

And then some bullets.

Complete embarrassment of a QB.

borderline unserviceable, pathetic garbage.

I knew he was somewhat polarizing, Warren went on, but I don't realize so many people were so out of touch with his actual performance.

So let's talk to it.

And we don't need to dig into the analytics, but I would say please go ahead and check out what Warren wrote because he has a bunch of pop the hood numbers that support that Tua is a high-end, not just a serviceable or not bad quarterback, but a high-end passer when things are going right.

And I'll say this again because I respect Sharp, and

so I'm not taking a shot at him, but I thought that the tweet was kind of built on

poor foundation in the sense that it was a bit of a straw man.

Does anybody actually think any of those things about Tua if you actually follow football?

And we could kind of save a broader conversation about Tua when we

do our

Dalton scale rankings, which we had to push just a little bit, but we'll have Bill Bill Barnwell with us in a couple of weeks.

But

I just found that to be surprising that

people would even think that.

I think Tua is more in the range of

when everything is set up in the right way, the right offense, the right players, the right coaching, he's healthy, he could be good.

But he also was drafted in 2020, Connor, and they haven't won a playoff game in those five years.

So I think some of the extremism talking about Tua mirrors the political landscape.

It's It's like maybe he's not terrible or secretly amazing.

Maybe he's just kind of a guy.

And maybe that's why the Dolphins probably are going to have some hard conversations about their quarterback if this year, once again, ends short of playoff conquests.

My issue is, and this is probably not surprising, but just the context-free

usage of EPA and success to determine how great someone is.

So just really quickly, between 2016 and 2024, here are some quarterbacks.

So this is an eight-year sample size.

Here are some quarterbacks that have appeared in the top 20 over those eight years total in terms of EPA and success rate.

And you tell me if these are some of the best quarterbacks over the last eight years of NFL football.

Jameis Winston, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ryan Tannehill, Tua,

Brock Purdy, Jimmy Garoppolo.

like Marcus Mariota.

Like, I mean, you know, like, you know, he was 22, so I'm moving the goalpost a little bit.

But, like,

what I don't understand,

it's a fine measurement.

Like, again, like, there are some quarterbacks who tally efficiency stats really well.

But we all know that, like, that's like reading sheet music instead of hearing the song.

Like, there's, there's more to it than that.

And while I would never advocate for anybody to call anybody garbage, like, this idea that we can't be critical of Tua at this stage in his career is ridiculous.

It's, I think

there's the numbers that you can prop up.

They did it with that.

Derek Carr got a lot of that, where it's like he's number two in this over four.

Hold on, look, there's the human experience of Tua.

I think there's a couple things happening.

Like, his durability

has been seriously a problem.

And in fact, we were concerned about him even appearing ever again on the football field, and we're not certain he should.

And he's packed into a Dolphins team that crumbles post-November year after year.

And I think for me,

he's on the verge of very good, but just not great.

And I'm comfortable with that.

Like, I'm not putting him in, I don't care what how you do it numbers-wise, like just about the overall experience of this quarterback.

He's very good, but not one of the greats, and you're living with that.

And by the way, isn't that another way to,

if you were trying to classify when we talk about the Dalton scale and who is the true prime meridian of quarterbacks, starting quarterbacks.

And

this is a Chris Wesling joint.

If you're on one side of that line, you are a true franchise quarterback that a team can build around.

If you're on the other side of that line, you are a guy that's ultimately expendable and not a long-term answer.

And then there's someone that's right there in the middle that divides those two sides.

Kind of like that, the way Mark explained that just now makes me feel like when we get to that conversation, which I'm really looking forward to because it's a wide open competition at this point with Derek Hard retired and Andy Dalton kind of in the sunset.

Tu has got to be a part of that conversation, in my opinion.

Sure, I think so.

One more thing: I limited the sample size now from 2020 to 2024 because I'm still angry about this.

Two best quarterbacks over the last five years.

Pre-TNC, Connor.

Two best quarterbacks over the last five years.

Okay.

In terms of success rate, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Brock Purdy.

Okay.

There you go.

Marcus Mariota at five.

Phillips Rivers.

End of career, Philip Rivers at nine.

Come on.

Like,

like, Mitch Trubisky at 15 over the last five years.

Okay.

So, like,

let's, let's use another thing to prop up our arguments, like, for engagement, you know?

Let's just, we can do better than this.

That's all.

The model is breaking down, apparently.

I mean, am I wrong about this?

Like, no, I mean, I think this is a

like

counterbreak.

I understand this, but it's just like

Connor

popped the hood on the analytics and then ripped the hood off and then threw it to decapitate all of his enemies.

All I'm saying is, it's a fine thing to be like a little Tetris piece in your argument, but like to just sit here and don't hang the whole thing on it.

Yeah.

Very fair.

That's it.

Sorry.

Very fair.

All right.

Let's take a break.

Let's get Connor calmed down.

And when we get back, we'll hit the rest of the news in the middle of Mandatory Minicamp Week in the

All right, we're taking a quick break to talk about the Patreon.

Patreon.com slash heed the call.

If you love our program but want more of it, if you want not just more but different, it's the Patreon where you find it all, Mark.

It is, uh,

and it has got a lot of flavor and energy.

And that Friday Fun Show that's free.

Go check it out.

Take a look at it.

That's exactly kind of what we're cooking up here.

Absolutely.

So check it out.

The Friday Fun showed one week only.

We put it up free for anyone that wants to head over to Patreon to check it out.

Justin's mom was on the episode.

It was a special one.

Also, Rolling Thunder with Mark and Jason Zumwalt, the Throwback Podcast with me and my bosom buddy Bob Castrone.

It came from the subreddit, our study of the fans

and their feelings on the show.

The Silver Horses newsletter by Mark Sessler, and all sorts of extra bonus content, like, for example, HTC at the movies, whether it's a Hallmark film with Connor Orr or Draft Day with Costner.

We do that kind of fun stuff too.

So it's a whole other side of the Heed the Call Enterprise.

Why don't you give it a try?

Back to the show.

All right, we're back.

Oh, yeah.

We climb out of the fish tank, Mark, and let's take a trip to your favorite place, The Dog Pound.

Okay.

We love our team.

Please.

Why are you on this rant all of a sudden?

This team has done nothing to impact anyone for...

They've done nothing, all right.

I'm just being a dick.

All right, the Browns.

Let's start.

We mentioned Aaron Rodgers at the top.

Aaron Rodgers,

of my many concerns, concerns, one of them is that he's playing in the AFC North.

It's, you know, the weather's cold.

The hitting is hard.

The rivalries are nasty.

And

sending 42-year-old Aaron Rodgers to Cleveland

to be targeted by Miles Garrett, arguably the greatest pass rusher of his generation, that could lead to some issues for the Yinsers.

Anyway, Miles Garrett is very excited about having a new division foe.

And he's also a man that's not above, you know, branding himself and doing bits.

And I think one of them, Mark, you could help us out with this.

I think he talks about he has a quarterback graveyard, something like that.

Anyway, there was a Halloween setup where he put the names of, I mean, I think even quarterbacks

stacked.

It's like here is Miles Garrett on Aaron Rodgers joining the rival Steelers.

Aaron Rodgers coming into the AFC market.

What do I think about it?

Base and choice of yours.

I think it's a good opportunity to put him in the graveyard.

Ow!

You know,

can I tell you one thing about Miles Garrett?

Ow!

In the graveyard!

Miles Garrett has spoken.

He's putting another man in the graveyard.

Ow!

Roof, roof, roof, roof, roof, roof.

I mean, this is a team that won three games, and months later, he is publicly asking for a trade.

Is there any awareness that he has got some work to do with the fans before he issues these proclamations about like this is a team that literally won three games like i go go be functional as a team i don't care if you have 18 sacks if you cannot win a divisional game like

what can i ask you a question like i don't i don't think i'm surprised you're saying that he needs to kind of win over the fans he just

got a market contract for being a tremendous player over like seven years of the browns but at the same time we so we made Miles Garrett like one of the highest paid players in the history of the sport.

And then we couldn't take a two and a half million flyer on Nick Chubb.

Like I still, I'm a little surprised.

Not to belabor that, but like it's amazing how far they went to make sure Garrett stayed and then they, you know, to move on from Chubb the way they did that.

They're a very weird team.

And not to not to go down this road too deeply, but You had a chance.

You're in a bit of a rebuild.

Like, let's be real about that.

You're moving on from the Nick Chubbs, you're moving on from certain players.

You've got young, your plan is to go very young at quarterback and see what happens here.

I would have traded Miles Garrett.

I just would have.

I thought it was

an interesting stance to dig your heels in on this one player, but makes so many other changes.

And clearly, like your draft day trading, like you're trying to build assets for the future in opposed to Sean Watson universe.

And you kept Miles Garrett.

And I get a lot of people would say he's a great player, but I also think this is someone the Browns are different, and the Jets are in this way too, where like your star player spends three months telling everyone he wants to be traded.

Like, it's, it's, that causes scars.

I don't think that he's seen the same way, or I don't see him the same way.

Fair enough.

I'm getting all in my emotions about it.

I get it.

But, you know.

It's okay, Mark.

It's okay.

Because guess what?

You should never say, I don't give a shit about what I feel.

I don't give a shit about what I feel.

Yes, Connor.

Dan, kind of tap the root of of fandom.

Like, you know, when you have like a bad tooth and the dentist hits it and you immediately like recoil.

All fan bases have these neat little things with their players and the graveyard to Miles Garrett is one of them.

And to make fun of that, it does, it just travels right to the nerve.

Like, I remember, do you remember when the Jets had the sons of anarchy, Sheldon Richardson, Mohamed Wilkerson, and

so many trophies produced by that group of defenders.

Whenever I would make fun of that, it would be this immediate, like, oh, you're punking fun.

Like, but like, that thing makes fans vulnerable because they know it's kind of corny, but they love it.

And I like to see that tapped every now and then because

it's a very interesting thing.

You know what we kind of miss out on?

Because we're just, it's a different team.

Of course, at the expense of the Browns, though, Connor, right?

Like, we've got it.

We've got it, like, the one team.

Yeah.

You know what we miss because it's a bygone era, but remember the old 90s posters of the sports stars, and it was some type of like play on their nickname, and it was often done in very literal terms.

I actually have the poster hanging up in my house, and I've taken it everywhere I've ever lived.

I had an old Don Mattingly poster.

He was called the Hitman, was his nickname, and it's him holding a bat like it's a gun, and then he's dressed as a mafioso character.

Very famous poster.

They had all of these, all these different type of posters through the years.

I feel like we really missed one like arrow-wise of Miles Garrett dressed as like an Undertaker figure standing in a foggy graveyard with the tombstones of all the different quarterback names.

I felt like that could have been on like a, in 1991, like a 35-year-old Seci's bedroom wall.

That could have been that.

35.

But you know what?

No, like I had the kind of room where this was a little obsessive, but my goal was with Sports Illustrated back then to Connor, your wonderful magazine.

My grandfather gave us a subscription of that every year, and I cut it.

I cut a lot of them up and pasted my entire four walls with posters and pictures and drawings and stuff.

And like eight, like 8% of the wall at least was these massive posters.

And they looked like these apocalyptic landscapes behind them and stuff.

So I remember that Maddenleen one, too.

Tons of kids I knew had that.

Yes, iconic indeed.

Maybe that's a future Friday fun show topic.

We'll

look at some of the old NFL ones and comment on them with good humor.

All right, let's see.

Speaking of, we're still in the dog pound.

Let's talk about the fifth-round pick, the most famous fifth-round pick in NFL history, in fact.

Shador Sanders, quarterback.

He is in something of a four-man

quarterback competition or something there.

And part of being in a camp where there's that many QBs mean that reps are going to be, I guess, difficult to come by, especially if you weren't even the first quarterback taken in your draft class.

So here's Shador Sanders, who said he is unfazed by fewer reps.

I would say it's just a mindset, it's just an adjustment.

You got to go and

understand the situation that you're in and be able to approach that and get the best out of it.

So life is just based on how you view different things.

So you could view things as you're not getting reps in a negative way, or you could view it as, okay, when it's my time to get out there, let's be proactive and let's get warm.

Let's get going.

So there's no excuses.

Because when you get out there, nobody cares how many reps you got.

Whenever you get in the game, nobody cares if you took a snap before.

You know, like they care about, everybody cares about production.

So that's the main thing.

When you get out there, you got to be able to produce.

Yeah, yeah.

This guy gets it, Mark, huh?

Oh, what a problem he is.

You know, I think there is fair speculation.

Wait, do you really think because in this press conference he said that

there will be no issues ever around this man and his family structure?

Like, are you really taking what he just said to the media in a microphone at face value?

I would just say, compared to some of the players we discuss and who they've become as personalities as they get older, like he will have his Bose headphones on sleeping through meetings by November.

That's what I think.

Well, that's a little cynical.

I guess the question is: which one of these quarterbacks isn't on the roster in November?

Because

I just wonder what they're going to do with both rookies, because there is some whispers that they would maybe let one of them go, which I think is a shame.

But listen to this.

I feel like all of these guys could play.

I want to just read, and I think I sent this guy

to you guys a couple weeks ago, but like their opening slate:

Bengals, Ravens, Packers, Lions, Vikings, Steelers.

You could be 0-6.

I mean, it's like whoever starts the season at quarterback.

Like, I could see three different quarterbacks playing.

And you use the year to find out what you have here.

But, like, I'm like, Kenny Pickett is not the guy I'd keep.

He's the first guy I'd let go.

So here's another thing I feel emotional about because it's like,

if they ever let go of Shador Sanders before the season, like, I think that's just one of the biggest disasters of all time.

I don't think they will.

Well, I think I don't, again, the real one that's hard to figure out is where Dylan Gabriel fits in in this.

He's the third round pick, but like

to your point,

if the schedule's brutal, it will help to have some bag men on the roster.

So you have Pickett and you have Flacco's back there, right?

You put those guys in, you let them take their lumps, you go one and five,

maybe two and four if you get fortunate.

And then you can, then it's like, oh, it's developmental time.

And then all of a sudden you have 10 or 11 games to play with to get a look at these other quarterbacks that you drafted.

It could actually, from a developmental standpoint, not be the worst thing.

Like something that's on my radar, if we're talking about schedules and our loser teams, as much as I think the Aaron Rodgers situation is doomed for Pittsburgh, I don't love that the Jets are playing the Steelers in week one.

Like,

I've lived this life, I've been down this road, and I really do feel like Park Avenue purposely does this to f with Jets fans.

Like, they always do this.

I feel like we're always up against whatever guy used to be on the team that's now starting over, and then it's just another way to like stick it to the old gangrene.

Like, remember, we once went down to Charlotte.

Like who, like, who started, they're an AFC East team.

Let's send them to the Carolina Panthers in week one when Sam Darnold is starting over in Carolina, where we, of course, then lost in that game back in 21, I believe it was.

Like, now we're doing it.

Like, the scheduler makers, like, oh, this will be some good lol Jets content.

Let's have Aaron Rodgers throw for 340 and four touchdowns in week one so everybody could slurp on that old man, and then the Jets fans fans could just wallow in our continual, perpetual misery.

I see what you're doing, schedule makers, and I don't like it.

It's unoriginal comedy.

That's what it is.

That's all it is, right?

I mean, there's so many more interesting ways, and we've said this before, there's so many more interesting ways you could create a schedule, but it's low-hanging fruit.

It's ridiculous.

But speaking of cynical, I will just say my piece on the Shadir thing.

I think the Browns have perfected the,

for lack of a better word, human meat shield when they know that they're going to be in some serious trouble in terms of onfield stuff.

And I think that Shadur is a very digestible season subplot that kind of takes fans' eyes away from the fact that, like, we're probably hoping to have the number one pick next year.

Like,

let's be honest about a lot of this, right?

And that was like when everything was going south with Deshaun Watson, it's like, do we try to salvage it?

Do we try to make a trade?

Or do we get the crab legs guy who's who's going to come in and be like,

you know, the whole time?

And that's what they did.

And Jameis bought them some time, right?

I mean, wasn't that?

Yep.

How about this, Mark?

Another again, another way to spin this a little bit in a positive.

Yeah, this year is probably not going to be great in the dog pound, but maybe in the offseason when he's just turned 30,

maybe you could flip miles then and get a couple first-round picks, and then you're well-armed to go get Arch or whoever is at the top of the draft class if you don't end up with the number one pick.

There's still, yeah, you just have to trust the process in Cleveland, which we've been told the process is actually sound in Cleveland, but then you look at it and it's like one playoff win in a COVID year in an empty stadium.

Otherwise, it's been just more the same over the last 10 years.

I mean, but we're told that the process is sound and everyone's very smart in that building.

Like, there is

excepting the owner, there is a path where they can still fairly quickly put themselves in a very good spot.

It would just take

a lot of time next year already.

And you're right.

I think that the Miles Garrett contract with each passing year will look more and more completely acceptable and manageable.

And another team would trade for it in a second.

So you're right.

If they really find out that they want to go in that direction, it's still a possibility.

Yeah, like, let's just say.

Do I trust them?

I don't know if I trust them.

I don't know if I trust them.

Just like I don't trust the Jets.

And And no fan base should trust outright leadership of Wobe Gun franchises historically.

But like, with, let's say, best case scenario, the Browns are back on their feet and an interesting team in two to three years.

Garrett's going to be 32-33.

I just, that's, I think to your point too, Mark, like, the contract didn't quite line up with where the organization is on top of everything else.

Yeah.

And let's see how it all plays out.

But he's got his graveyard.

He's got his own thing.

He's definitely not in the,

it doesn't seem like he's much of a servant leader, but you can't chagrin a guy for getting his money ultimately.

Speaking of servant leaders,

he was a leader.

It looked like he had some servants on that boat.

Stefan Diggs, the Patriots wide receiver, he's in camp, and

he was asked, of course, about the boat.

We know the boat.

Everybody remember the boat?

Throw up a photo of that boat or the video or whatever, Justin.

Throw it up.

Like the

mysterious pink powder, the harem of hotties around him, and Stefan just like king of the castle, but in this case a boat.

And it led to Mike Rabel giving some coded response to the media about, I'm pissed about this.

You had the human power raid bottle saying, oh, I wouldn't be surprised that they cut this guy, whatever.

Well, now it's Stefan Diggs' turn to talk, and here he is at Patriots Camp this week.

Obviously, it's a conversation, you know, that's happening internally.

I can't have too much of a conversation with about it but

I've been in this league 10 years.

You can format the question many different ways.

I'm obviously answer it the same way.

Stephen said one thing.

Did you know it was being recorded?

Once again, you can format the question many different ways.

I've been doing this for 10 years.

The conversation that I have with Rabes and the people in the building, obviously, is going to be handled internal,

in-house thing.

Sometimes eyebrows tell a whole story.

Like if you're watching this on video, check out when the follow-up question happens and the way Diggs's eyebrows go up.

He did not know he was being recorded, and he was probably mega-pissed at whoever was on the boat that allowed that to leak.

Well, I love when the players bake in the, like, I'm smarter than the media.

I know how to handle this.

You got covertly filmed on a boat with party drugs.

Like, you're not the one who gets to come in here with the upper hand.

It's just right.

You've been in the league for 10 years, and you're a multi-millionaire star-wide receiver.

You should know better than that.

Like, that's what I'd like to come in and be like,

I got your number, guys.

Like, you know, no one in that group of reporters would have gone on a boat.

Well, maybe they would have.

I don't know.

But, you know,

you've got to accept the consequences here.

I think you've got to track down from a journalistic angle.

Track down those women and find out, like, they'll talk.

I'm sure they'll sing.

I'm sure they'll tell you what happened on that boat.

That feels like a good SESI assignment.

Like, if Pablo Torrey can

be a serious journalist and do all those podcasts about Belichick's girlfriend, like why can't we have a similar setup?

What's the name of the Pablo?

Pablo Torrey finds out.

Like Quiet Storm finds out, and it's just Mark looking for young women for answers on things.

No, these women specifically.

Right, right.

But if it's a series, an ongoing series, I would imagine you'd just like to go find other women potentially in possession of pink powder and ask more questions.

Like that, I would listen to that podcast.

I would give you a peabody for that.

You've put a seed into my brain.

I think

I may follow up on this.

Okay, real quick,

former Chargers running back J.K.

Dobbins signs a one-year deal with the Broncos.

So there's that.

The Packers are trying out wide receiver Bo Melton at cornerback following the release of Jair Alexander.

That's to your point, Connor, that

they don't have a lot there.

So the decision not to emphasize secondary in the draft or free agency and then cut ties with Alexander, it makes you wonder if they're running into a buzzsaw there in their defense.

Yeah.

I mean, if you'd add there.

Well, yeah.

I mean, I just don't, I don't understand how we get to this point.

And when we,

fans, I think it's important to know this.

When we get to this point where they're like, oh, neat, like player X is playing out a position.

Like, isn't that so cool?

It's impossible

to materialize because position coaches don't coach.

Like realistically, like there's probably 10 position coaches in the NFL who are actively raising the talent level of their guys through technical skill.

Like here's new moves that you can have as a pass rusher.

Here's something that you can do as an offensive lineman.

In modern football, a lot of these guys are just there to serve the offensive coordinator.

They all get chunks of the game plan.

You're responsible for third and long.

You're responsible for first and five.

You're responsible for red zone.

They don't have time to teach Bo Melton to be a cornerback.

No, that's not.

Bo don't know corner.

It's just not.

Like, this is just, you know, this is off pure off-season, ridiculous garbage.

I have a prediction.

I have a prediction.

It might keep Bo Melton employed, though.

You know, it could help him.

I don't know.

But anyway, like, here's my prediction.

And if I'm right,

I will gloat.

Jalen Ramsey to the Packers for a conditional fourth-round pick.

It happens in the next four weeks.

Who says no?

No, it's good.

Like, maybe it becomes a third if he hits certain snap count or they advance to the NFC title game or something like that.

Like,

just do it.

Get him out of Miami.

Put him on a contender that I think Ramsey, Ramsey would be probably a little tricky if you're a guy who likes playing in a temperate climate to go from South Florida to Green Bay, Wisconsin.

But the trade-off is you slot into an ostensibly

Super Bowl contender, a fabled franchise, all that.

That's my prediction.

I like it.

Kyle Pitts has a foot issue.

Another guy that could be on the move in the next few weeks or a couple of months.

But right now, the former first-round pick tight end is not expected to practice at Falcons minicamp, at least

early in the camp.

He's dealing with a strained muscle in that foot, and that's all we have.

I hope that's not the dreaded harlot, Liz Frank.

I hate that lady.

And finally, this was, and this comes at the behest of our producer.

And as I've said many times, Mark,

I think it's very important that we...

We say thank you to Justin for being so good at what he does and being so passionate about us

and our show and giving 100% effort that

when I see this rundown and I see something related to the Titans at the very top of the rundown,

that

my first instinct is to literally as quickly as possible delete it.

That's my first instinct typically.

But in this case, I said, you know what?

This one's for the gravedigger.

I'm going to the graveyard, but not the one that's been branded by Miles Garrett.

This is Gravy.

Gravy's graveyard.

It's time for another edition of...

Remember the Titans?

This was in all caps in our original rundown.

Hottest story in the league, Colin.

Cam Ward completed.

Cam Ward, if you remember,

is the first overall pick in the 2025 NFL draft.

Cam Ward completed 18 straight passes in seven.

I don't even know if this is true.

Justin could have just made this up, and nobody's fact-checking, so I don't even know if anybody's at the camp, you know, or like reporting.

Cam Ward completed 18 straight passes in seven on seven and 11 on 11 work yesterday and was 20 for 21 overall on the day.

Is he coming for Patrick Mahomes' spot as the NFL's best QB?

I don't.

Again, that's directly from our rundown.

Here is

Kalahan.

Kolahan.

I'm not familiar with this person.

Kalahan?

Who is this, Justin?

This is Titans head coach Brian Callahan on Cam Warriors.

Oh,

talking trout

with

a superstar defensive tackle, Jeffrey Simmons, during practice.

Oh, yeah.

I'll be honest, I wasn't used to, I'm not used to calling plays to a quarterback who's usually still talking when I'm talking to him.

And that's great.

And so I asked him after practice and I said, said i just just help me out here

do you need me to wait till you finish uh or and he goes no he goes i'm listening oh man very nice legend

this is a big story in nashville with a cam ward and jeffree steams going back and forth with the smack talk while callahan is giving him the next play call and he's just like he's dialed into callahan he's talking his shit and then he's throwing touch 50-yard touchdowns to Calvin Ridley in minicamp.

It's like,

is he coming for Patrick Mahomes crown?

That was obviously

a joke I put in the rundown.

Yeah, and this isn't a bit.

This is a real question.

Was this the lead topic on the Titans Fans Online podcast?

The Music City Audible podcast?

Yes, this is pretty hot goss in Titans media circle right now.

Larger NFL probably doesn't give a shit, you know, kind of like Mike McDaniel.

I don't give a shit about what I feel.

But in November, when the Titans are 2-9, but Cam Ward is like third in the NFL and passing touchdowns, then we can talk about it.

Okay.

Gotcha.

Is the poe-faced Paul Koharski all like, oh, this is important?

Actually, Paul took issue with a tweet I had yesterday because

oh, really?

Paul Koharski was cranky about something.

So we did our

recapping day one of Titans Minicamp.

And then I posted a tweet, you know, like, come listen to us recap day one of minicamp.

And Paul Koharski responds, were you out there?

No, what if?

I mean, this guy.

Imagine.

He kind of nailed you there, though.

No, no, he didn't, Mark.

Please, I'm defending my producer.

The Poface Koharski over here.

Like, are we still gatekeeping as Old Man Beat Reporter?

Can we, how about this?

How about this, Paul?

How about there's a guy named Justin Graver who's young and passionate and spreads the gospel of the national-based NFL franchise.

And those are people that you want to support as a veteran journalist.

Like, you want to, you'd want to embolden them.

You want, maybe you send a private DM or an email saying, hey, Justin, I really love your passion and the work that you do.

I think it would be great if you could get to camp and I could show you a different way of looking at this also.

And I think it would help your coverage.

Or a DM that just says, were you out there?

Or that.

Like, if you want to be that way, too.

But I'm just saying, like, there's different ways to go about things.

That's the old, like, look,

I'm the rebel.

I'm the gatekeeping rebel.

And I don't.

Wasn't he on your show, Justin?

He's been on our show a few times.

Is he ordering to you

on mic or in person?

No, he's just, this is just how he is.

It's fine.

I responded and I said, no, but

Remember the Titans ever, by the way.

I said, no, but thankfully, we have great reporters like yourself out there to have notes that we can give.

You took the high road.

You did.

That's you.

That's why we'd love you.

Yeah.

Kill with kindness.

That grinds my gears a little bit.

Yes, clearly.

It should you too, Mark.

I don't know.

I like you're siding with the old gatekeeping on this one.

I'm not, that's not intentionally what I'm doing.

I just, I thought it was funny that he would.

I found it just humorous that Justin, because I see Justin's tweets, and

there is a, I want to say like a childlike enthusiasm to them, and they're very bubbly, and it's like this team that's sort of lost in the wind, and you got old Paul coming in, dropping an A-bomb on it, and it's just, there's...

You got this old crank rolling in to try to take the wind out of the sails of the kid.

I don't want that to be...

I don't want that to happen to Justin.

eventually.

I don't want the wind to happen.

Have you noticed if you look over Justin's left shoulder, the Titans helmet is not rotating.

Sad.

And maybe it stopped rotating when a veteran journalist that Justin looks up to decided to shit on him in a public setting for no reason whatsoever.

Connor's sticking out of this one.

Well, okay.

So

I've been trying to put my thoughts together.

And

I think once I woke up, because once I saw Titans on the rundown, I thought that was a good time to catch up on

a few Z's.

But

as someone who has

done the whole camp camp grind, right?

Like there are days when I will go and say, okay, like today

I'm going to do hang time for punters.

Today I'm going to track field goal kickers.

Like all this minutiae.

And I wish that there was a show like Justin's back then that would give that stuff a stage to be put on instead of just being slapped on some, you know, B-level website that is.

you know, at the time was not capable of supporting like, you know, I'm not talking about my current employer, by the way.

but, you know, like back when I was a beat reporter, like a lot of times, fans couldn't find that information.

And so I think it's valuable.

And Justin's great at crediting stuff.

So

I think it's one of those deals where I would welcome that.

Like, go ahead.

You want to talk about the fact that I sat my ass out there all day and tracked Will Levis past stats?

Like, sure,

I would love somebody else to know that I did that besides my wife

who'd be probably like disappointed in the way that that's what that's the way I spent the afternoon, you know?

You, ultimately, Justin, are a servant.

Servant leader.

Yeah.

A servant leader.

I don't give a shit about work here.

All right.

I'm biting my tongue right now.

All right.

That is it for

the first week of minicamp coverage from Heed the Call.

Reminder that there are more teams

that will have their mandatory camps next week, including the Los Angeles Rams from Maui, which I would imagine Zach Wilson probably feels very proud about that.

It's probably a.

Right.

His heart's beating with a lot of pride knowing that the NFL has come to Hawaii.

So that's good.

And we'll cover all of that and we'll do it with just a touch of mirth.

Thank you to everybody.

And remember, also remember, we have a, over on the Patreon, we have, of course,

another show coming up this week.

It's the Friday Fun Show.

So check that out, patreon.com slash heed the call.

There's another rolling thunder on the horizon and another throwback podcast on the horizon.

It's all happening

over on the Patreon.

Check it out.

And until then, Friday and then Tuesday, do what you must.

Heed the Call.

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They're one of America's largest financial services companies.

Like how I'm more than just Peyton Manning.

I'm also motivating Manning.

When I say insurance, you say financial services.

Insurance.

Financial services.

Insurance.

Financial services.

Now, when I say nationwide, you say is both.

Nationwide.

It is both.

Nationwide.

It's both.

For your insurance and financial needs, nationwide is on your side.

Nationwide Investment Services Corporation, Ember Finrick, Columbus, Ohio.

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