Teams That Nailed the NFL Draft + Things We Did Not Love

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Speaker 1 The discourse is going to be off the charts. Welcome to Heed the Call Post

Speaker 1 2025 NFL draft recap. Well, to be totally honest, as we record this,

Speaker 1 it is round seven, but we are at the stage where NFL Network has a bunch of puppies on the screen, and now it's a country singer that I know is quite famous

Speaker 1 because I recognize him, but I don't know who he is. So when you're at that stage of the telecast, we could safely start our broadcast.

Speaker 1 Dan Hans is here with Mark Sessler, Connor Orr, Gravy on the ones and twos.

Speaker 1 And yes, this will be a draft.

Speaker 1 Hopefully, if you're, let's say, Justin Graver, our producer, you in 20 years, people will remember it for Cam Ward, and he entered the league and became the next face of Titans football.

Speaker 1 Or, you know, Travis Hunter maybe becomes the, truly does become the NFO's Otani, and everybody gets excited about that. Or any number of other high-impact players get taken.

Speaker 1 But from where we stand right now, Ceci,

Speaker 1 yeah, Shador Sanders is kind of like the story of this draft. He does finally come off the board.
It took until the fifth round. And

Speaker 1 Ceci, just to, and we're going to break it all down and then everything else that we took out of the seven rounds.

Speaker 1 But just to put it into perspective, I'll use Mel Kuyper's rankings as one, a guy that's been doing this for 50 years or whatever. He was the fifth number five ranked ranked prospect on his board.

Speaker 1 Whether you think that's right or not, that's not the point. The fact that he went in the fifth round at 144 is something you just don't see in this realm.

Speaker 1 And that's why people were kind of fascinated by it.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, it was the story. And Connor, Connor Orr with us, wrote.
A pretty great reaction to what happened,

Speaker 2 you know, a day ago and what unfolded today. And

Speaker 2 he goes to where he goes to cleveland like um it's kind of wild like you would have thought that could have happened in the first round like um it's one of these i felt i started to feel bad for him as a person and i get that like the father is this and this or that and there's all these issues like this is still a human being who is being telecast um pick by pick not being chosen um we don't love that we've all felt that in our own way so connor i'd ask you like as you would analyze this um a day ago to today, like do you what like what happened here?

Speaker 2 Like why does this well I'd ask this like question like

Speaker 2 draft analysts who are in theory working off information

Speaker 2 and people working with like on the phones with people of importance like how do we project him up here but he doesn't exist until way down here?

Speaker 3 So it's a great question. And I have a few thoughts on this.

Speaker 3 One, I think that we have to remember that not only has Dion worked with almost everyone in some corner of our business, including a lot of the really popular people who make these draft boards, but Colorado had a super NFL-heavy staff, like guys like Pat Shermer, who talks to a lot of NFL reporters, and guys who are going to be familiar with NFL media and know how to get that positive messaging across.

Speaker 3 I mean, anytime that you would read anything that Shermer said about Shadir Sanders, you would think, my goodness, this guy's going to be special. And so I think that's initially how you get up there.

Speaker 3 But I think objectively, he was probably a fringe first round, early second round prospect.

Speaker 3 But what happens is after you get out of the midway point of the second round, you're not drafting a quarterback who you need to start.

Speaker 3 You're drafting a quarterback who you hope has untapped upside, which Sanders does not. That's the issue with Sanders, right?

Speaker 3 He has been maximized as a player because his dad has been stacking the deck in his favor for 15 years, right? He is the best version of himself or very close to the best version of himself already.

Speaker 3 So you factor that in. Plus the fact that you need your backup to be a servant, right? You need your backup to do a lot of grunt work.

Speaker 3 You need your backup to be an understudy and you need your backup to be anonymous. That is the polar opposite of what Shader Sanders is, like him or don't like him.

Speaker 3 And so, every general manager from that point on, pick whatever midway through the second round until the fifth round was like, well, screw this. Like, I'm not going to get my ass fired.

Speaker 3 I'm not going to piss off my starter. I'm not going to piss off the rest of my team for a guy that I hope doesn't see the field unless something really bad happens.

Speaker 3 If that's the case, then just give me somebody else and I'll make it work.

Speaker 3 And so, I think that plus the fact that it's a very low QB need draft explains that sort of black hole that we saw between rounds two and five. I think that's sort of the fairest analysis of that.

Speaker 1 That is fair.

Speaker 1 And I think what, and what we heard with the zum drop, like it's going to be probably a car crash and all the debate shows and stuff this week because nobody wants to look at these things, it seems,

Speaker 1 from a measured side and be like, okay, who's to blame for this? All right. I think it's both sides.
And you wrote about that, Connor, as well.

Speaker 1 And I agree that, okay, so one side of it is, I believe, that the, and let's take away just the ability to play and what his play is, but how Shadora Sanders, how his father, how the people around him presented him leading up to the draft,

Speaker 1 whether that is from not the pro day, but the big showcase to

Speaker 1 the way they set up the nightclub on Thursday night for round one, which was absolutely ridiculous in retrospect.

Speaker 1 It was ridiculous in real time and looks even more absurd when he goes in the fifth round.

Speaker 1 And some of the interview, and I know there was Kyle Brandt was very vocal about this, that, you know, who's leaking that some of his pre-draft interviews were poor or put him in a poor light?

Speaker 1 Like, I get why you don't want to kind of assassinate a kid's character ahead of the biggest night of his life. But at the same time, those were

Speaker 1 based on what we're hearing, he did not interview well and he made mistakes in the process. So he put himself in that situation.

Speaker 1 And then on the other side, and we see this all the time in the NFL, this is, and it's not just playbook. The NFL is a copycat league.

Speaker 1 And owners and general managers, once there's some type of consensus group thing, a lot of times it just takes on a life of its own. There is no way.

Speaker 1 He might not be the number five on the big board in reality, okay? But he's probably not where he went here either. And certainly not a fifth round guy.

Speaker 1 There was something else that took hold and gained a gravity and a force of its own that led to this happening.

Speaker 1 And I think that's because people get too caught up, the front offices, in what they're reading online and not being afraid to kind of go and do your own thing.

Speaker 1 And I think that became part of this too.

Speaker 1 And so it's a strange situation. I don't think it's one we're going to see very often.

Speaker 1 And I think think maybe it was a perfect storm because Deion Sanders is this cult of personality and this larger-than-life guy. And then, you know, the other part of it is, Mark, let's talk about it.

Speaker 1 Like the fact that he goes to the Browns is kind of crazy. It's like the final dizzying coda to this story.
It's a very strange move by Cleveland, in my opinion.

Speaker 1 It's a move that the Browns make after passing on him five times or whatever and taking a quarterback in the third round. And there are teams that I would trust to to handle the situation delicately.

Speaker 1 But the Cleveland Browns are not one of them. So they have Joe Flacco, Kenny Pickett.
Who did they get in the third round? Who's Dylan Gabriel? Dylan Gabriel. Dylan Gabriel and now Shador Sanders.

Speaker 1 That is going to be an absolute zoo at Cleveland training camp. And quite frankly, I think it's been a highly erratic offseason for the Browns in general.

Speaker 1 So the fact that they ended up going this way doesn't stun me, but I don't feel great about it ending in a good place for anybody.

Speaker 2 I I don't have a problem with them taking him where they got him because it's like, if he's going to keep tumbling down, like Dylan Gabriel is a project, I think he's 24 years old.

Speaker 2 He's like kind of like off the last year, like last year's like older quarterbacks that we stopped caring about their age so much. Like he's a bit of a product of that.

Speaker 2 Kenny Pickett could be out of there by late August. So it's like, I think you take Shador Sanders and just roll with it.
And like, he felt

Speaker 1 you. But do you feel to you? Todor Sanders and roll with it.
Yeah, but like, but we were top quarterbacks.

Speaker 2 We were talking openly about the Jets taking him in the fourth round. Like, if he's going to be able to get the same thing,

Speaker 1 there's another team that probably wouldn't do this well. So I'm not saying that it would have played out well.
But the Jets have 36-year-old Tyrod Taylor behind Justin Fields, an unproven guy.

Speaker 1 And then I think Jordan Travis is. So they don't really have some.

Speaker 2 What's different about them in Cleveland, though? Like, Joe Flacco is there for like

Speaker 2 five months.

Speaker 1 So you took a quarterback in the third round.

Speaker 1 how do you think how do you think gabriel feels about this i mean i know but dylan gabriel i think what was a dylan gabriel was a bigger reach

Speaker 2 than chador sanders where he was picked like dylan gabriel is a smaller older quarterback with not a great arm like i i it was like in defiance of taking chador sanders and then they took him it's like if he's gonna just come to you take him when you take him like i kept thinking the saints or the jets or someone would and like it happened but then you, you're right.

Speaker 2 Like, I get the other side of it. It's like, you've got to live with it.
But the fact that he fell to this low in the draft, like, you live with it a lot less.

Speaker 2 You live like Deion Sanders is not a major factor when your child was taken in like the deep rounds after the most

Speaker 1 draft till he's fourth on the depth chart and Deion has something to say about it. It invites, it invites chaos.
I'm sure Cleveland cannot handle

Speaker 1 chaos well. That's that's that's my point.
Yeah,

Speaker 3 I think here here's what's sort of interesting about this.

Speaker 3 You can galaxy brain it or you can look at it from a very point-blank range. And I've done both.
And that's why I struggle with this pick.

Speaker 3 Point-blank, my thought was, what on God's green earth are you guys doing? You just dealt with so much at that position with Deshaun Watson.

Speaker 3 Why don't you buy yourself just a modicum of normalcy and get through one season of just being a franchise, just a regular franchise that isn't weighted down by some magnanimously stupid decision.

Speaker 3 On the other hand, the pick that you made, the trade that you made at number two, bought you the opportunity to fill a lot of holes within the first three rounds of the draft.

Speaker 3 And I've talked to a lot of people about the Ravens draft strategy, and that's what they do with their comp picks, where when they're in rounds four and beyond, they simply just take the best absolute player on the board, regardless of position.

Speaker 3 And so if this is Shadur Sanders, I mean, again, your point-blank reaction is like, what on earth? But the other side of it is, it's a fifth-round pick.

Speaker 3 You cut a decent number of these guys after camp or after, you know, one season anyway. It's not this financial pitfall.

Speaker 3 And I think you're going to know really quickly whether Shadur Sanders, who for the first time in his life has to make reps matter, has to make the most of very limited practice time if he's going to thrive in that environment or wilt.

Speaker 3 And if he wilts, cut him. You know, I think in the fifth round, you're expendable.
You're wholly expendable, which Sanders has never been in his life.

Speaker 3 So that's why I guess it doesn't bother me because if he's an asshole, if the dad weighs in, if Stephen A. Smith is tweeting about it, just cut him.

Speaker 3 And it doesn't matter anymore.

Speaker 2 And let me, can I ask one question? It's not a Browns thing specific, but like, well, the Browns have a history of failing at experiments. So the Browns should not dial up this or pull this lever.

Speaker 2 It's like teams don't think about, like, they're not here to think about themselves that way. That's how we think about them.

Speaker 2 But like, a team that needed a quarterback, that needed someone to come in and maybe bring hope is who's going to go for this.

Speaker 2 Like, the Browns aren't here to think about themselves as a failed experiment as a sports team.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 no one's saying that they should.

Speaker 2 Well, no, but like, but then then it's like why did they take them like why not like i think it was literally seems like the type of mood

Speaker 1 divorce the melodrama around the the cleveland browns sure or the player

Speaker 1 it is a well no you can't you can't divorce it from the player because he's like that everything but then what the eagles take him and we love the eagles you know what i mean it's like like what because you trust an organization like the eagles to figure this out you don't trust the browns to figure it out not when and and and that to me is the thing that really, because their first two quarterbacks on the death chart are a 40-year-old and a failed first-round pick journeyman.

Speaker 1 So it's not so much about that. I just question the process and even who's making the decisions with Cleveland

Speaker 1 when you take a quarterback in the third round, which is a premium pick within the worlds of the NFL, like a mid-round pick, a Friday pick, and then you immediately, in my opinion, undermine that pick by bringing in Sanders.

Speaker 1 It's like one of those things is not going to work. So what's the point?

Speaker 1 I don't know. You know, it's a big story, by the way, when you get Trump

Speaker 1 dialing in.

Speaker 1 Well, or he's hammered.

Speaker 2 One of the two is occurring.

Speaker 1 All right, Ceciler,

Speaker 1 let's use your.

Speaker 2 What is wrong with the NFL owners?

Speaker 2 Let's be honest. Are they stupid? They might be.

Speaker 2 Deion Sanders was a great. He's a college football player.
We loved him very much and was even greater in the NFL. He's also

Speaker 2 a very good coach, streetwise, street-wise.

Speaker 1 Street wise.

Speaker 2 He's smart, okay?

Speaker 2 Therefore, shador his quarterback son has phenomenal jeans we love that we love the jeans i know that i'm important with the jeans and it's all set for greatness he greatness with the capital g by the way like that's my issue with is like can we work on the no editorialization

Speaker 2 sorry he should be picked immediately by a team immediately picked in quotes okay by a team and he wants to win good luck shadour and say hello to your wonderful father we're good friends we've loved we love the forest we love animals we love animals too.

Speaker 1 I missed the personal message at the end of it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And speaking of Twitter, this was a Deion Sanders tweet from March 13th, 2018. That's important to add.

Speaker 1 Coach Prime, I love what the Browns have done this offseason, but if I'm a young QB, ain't no way I'm going to Cleveland. I would pull an Eli Manning if possible.
Coach.

Speaker 2 That got taken out of your hands, right? That's what got taken out of your hands.

Speaker 1 And then let's check out Shadora's reaction if you're watching on YouTube. And thank you for tuning in when he learned he was finally off the board in the fifth round.

Speaker 5 Good for him.

Speaker 1 I'm sure it was a humbling experience.

Speaker 1 Perhaps he's been humbled for the first time in his life. And let's see

Speaker 1 how he reacts to it.

Speaker 3 So I do think that's an interesting component to this, Dan and Mark, right? Like think about this.

Speaker 3 And the Dion Inc. strategy clearly failed.

Speaker 3 Dion is never going to say it failed, but I think that he and everybody else in that circle knows that part of the reason he dropped is because of the tailwind of this ridiculousness that they put into Shador during the draft process.

Speaker 3 And I do wonder if part of the gamble here for Cleveland, and we can talk about how this is going to work in practicality in a second, but I think part of the gamble there is like, man, maybe this is the bucket of cold water that everyone needed.

Speaker 3 And now we're getting the fringe first-round quarterback in the fifth round, and he can develop into this high-end backup, you know, possibly a top 15 starter at some point in time. And

Speaker 3 again, we talked about this on the group chat a little bit, but I think how it will work in actuality is whoever loses that job between him and Dylan Gabriel for QB3 is just going to get hurt in air quotes at the end of the summer and be put on IR.

Speaker 3 And so you're going to be able to keep all these guys. You're going to have three quarterbacks on the roster and one of them on IR with Deshaun Watson

Speaker 3 and and just see what happens. I mean, it just seems like a lot.

Speaker 2 I, I went to the Connor, I think you're dead on with that. That's a lot.
You know, I don't store all these guys.

Speaker 3 Yep, it's it, and it's hard for me because every and it's

Speaker 3 you know, that's what it's really all about at the end of the day.

Speaker 3 Like every two steps, I'll think about it and be like, Jesus, what a

Speaker 3 awful decision this was. And then two steps later, I'm like, okay, well, let's try to, let's try to think through this and

Speaker 3 try to reason it and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 So it's, it really is a strange situation but dan right now if you're a mary kay cabot you're like hello hello hello hello hello hello hello cleveland beat is never never a boring a boring place that that is for sure um

Speaker 1 all right

Speaker 1 we'll we'll touch on this a little bit later in some other realms but the last point i had about this kind of going back to what i was saying about how the nfl can be very it's almost high schoolish how you know and meme girls ish and and shador was the uh the former pretty girl that now was sitting with

Speaker 1 the kid with the mouth guard.

Speaker 2 Well, or nerd girls, like, let's be honest, girls that are nerds. And

Speaker 2 it's tough to be a nerd as a girl, but like, you can do it.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yes, that too.

Speaker 1 But like,

Speaker 1 but like, Sean Payton was a perfect example of like what I was trying to wrap my head around.

Speaker 1 Do we have that quote? This was from after Thursday night when the Shador Sanders nightclub shut down with that

Speaker 1 release. Friday, excuse me.

Speaker 4 You would, if you're a team that needs a quarterback, and I don't, I mean, we kind of know at the start of the draft who those teams are, but

Speaker 4 you're getting.

Speaker 4 Now, again, I saw him when he was in junior high, and then I saw him when he was in high school, and then I saw him when he was a sophomore in high school come practice on their way to Florida.

Speaker 4 And so I've had a chance, I've known Dion and I felt like I grew up watching him play.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 he's going to

Speaker 4 like there'll be this chip on his shoulder and

Speaker 4 and

Speaker 4 and beware because this guy's going to play in this league.

Speaker 1 How about this, Sean? How about this? You poppy smart Paris St.

Speaker 3 Germain sweatsuit, by the way?

Speaker 1 I don't know. How about this, Sean? How about this? F ⁇ ing take them then take them yourself

Speaker 1 it doesn't mean that bo nicks is no longer your qb1 like it means

Speaker 1 here's a crazy thought here's a here's something that happens quarterbacks get hurt

Speaker 1 quarterbacks get hurt all the time and you're telling me you're saying how this kid this guy get this off the screen you're telling me this guy is going to um be a great quarterback and he's going to have a chip on his shoulder and all this shit it would the great charlie casterly once said and and I almost said late, but that's not true.

Speaker 1 The great Charlie Casterly once said, You know who the most important player on your roster is? Your starting quarterback. And you know who's the second most important player? Your second quarterback.

Speaker 1 And the third is your third quarterback.

Speaker 1 You're telling me, if you think that highly of Shadora Sanders, that he can't beat out Jared Stiddam for your backup job and have some insurance

Speaker 1 in the form of by your own explanation of who this kid is, like a highly talented future NFL difference maker, like he's part of the problem too.

Speaker 1 So don't miss me with these quotes about, oh, he's a great kid and he's going to be a good player.

Speaker 1 And tisk, tisk, all you other teams that have a need and didn't go get the quarterback because I don't need one because I have bow nicks. I'm set for the next 20 years.

Speaker 1 But for you guys, ba, ba, ba, enough of you. Dude, I totally.
Pack you up, bro. You're out of here.

Speaker 2 I totally appreciate the theatrics, but like

Speaker 2 part of the assumption here is that Sean Payton could not possibly be disingenuous.

Speaker 1 The whole point, Ceci. That's what I'm saying.
It's like,

Speaker 1 just don't even bother with this bullshit. You didn't want him for the same reasons all these other teams did.
Well, they're from 40 Minutes Away.

Speaker 1 I'm going to give you this idea that he's not worth the trouble. Okay, so don't tell me he is, and then don't pick him until the fifth round, and then he goes to

Speaker 1 Cleveland of all places. All right.

Speaker 2 Why? Why? I don't know. I don't like.
I don't like the emphasis on that.

Speaker 1 It's a disaster waiting to happen, Mark. That's why.
This is not going to work out.

Speaker 2 Why am I doing anything I'm doing?

Speaker 1 Please,

Speaker 1 please bring this. And if you would have went to the Jets, if that makes you feel better, same thing.

Speaker 2 No, it would have been like, no, we'd be like flying, like, you're a grand old flag.

Speaker 1 You're a high fly.

Speaker 2 And like, we'd be like throwing fighter jets going over the podcast studio. Please.
Like, of course, that would be different.

Speaker 1 But here's the difference, Mark. It's not going to work out.
It's not going to work out. It's not the difference.

Speaker 1 They don't have to be a good person.

Speaker 1 Now you're able to poke fun.

Speaker 2 Now you're able to poke fun for months in a row versus me. And even if it were me, I'd be like, I won't say much.
I'll be quiet.

Speaker 2 But it's like, now that he went to the Browns, it's going to be a massive nuclear battle.

Speaker 1 Listen, that

Speaker 2 implodes inside the United States.

Speaker 1 Your team invited this. They said we can handle the big top.
And

Speaker 1 my team, certain teams cannot handle the big top.

Speaker 1 So buckle up, Browns fans.

Speaker 2 I don't disagree. Connor, am I wrong?

Speaker 1 I don't disagree about it.

Speaker 1 Let's check out the draft room in Cleveland after the pick was made. Oh, please.

Speaker 1 It's like massive wet,

Speaker 1 like

Speaker 2 left and right.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 It's like two guys that just learned they're going to get

Speaker 1 lethal injection

Speaker 1 in three years. That is fair.

Speaker 2 Andrew Berry, can we let's juice up Andrew Berry just a little bit there.

Speaker 1 Who actually made this pick?

Speaker 1 It doesn't look like those two guys were down.

Speaker 3 Well, I know who's made picks for them at that position before it wasn't the two of them so i think that is always a lingering possibility yeah yeah all right big ups to charlie casterly by the way still alive loving it hell yeah would you just wiki that no i'm like

Speaker 1 i have to double check i remember seeing uh charlie casterly was on uh you know speaking of the big top being uh over certain franchises charlie being in the old break room at nfl media and uh he was in charge of hiring todd Todd Bowles and

Speaker 1 McCagnan as the Jets GM. And

Speaker 1 then it was me and him in this little kitchen. I said, hey,

Speaker 1 you know, feeling good about the choices you made? Oh, they're going to be great. Both of them.
I see them. They're going to be great.
They're perfect. They're perfectly aligned.

Speaker 1 Bah, bah, bah, bah, bah.

Speaker 1 Didn't work out that way.

Speaker 2 You and him in a little kitchen. That's my favorite part of the.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You remember that little kitchen at the old Colovich?

Speaker 2 It was a little kitchen. You could only make small items, small little dishes, little dishes dishes for just you and someone else.

Speaker 1 That was a good recovery because you do sometimes slip into Trump's voice naturally, and then you actually turned it into a Trump impression.

Speaker 2 I like that. Well, you gave me an avenue on this episode to do that.

Speaker 1 All right. What else happened in this draft? Because other stuff did happen.

Speaker 1 Before we do that, why don't we quickly remind you that on underdog, it's never too early to lock in your season-long NFL higher-lowers. This is a really good idea.

Speaker 1 You want to get rich. You want to get little Susie to get her braces.
This is how you do it.

Speaker 1 Actually, I wouldn't suggest that. This is just fun on the side.
I wouldn't put major family things. I wouldn't line it up with your underdog

Speaker 1 game playing. Okay.
But if you have a little Susie, you got it.

Speaker 1 You've taken

Speaker 1 some gravity to that.

Speaker 1 Susie's mouthguard and braces, separate trust fund. Okay.
Now, if daddy or mommy has a little bit extra scratch on the side, head over to Underdog.

Speaker 1 Absolutely, because it's never too early, like I said, to lock in those higher lowers for 25. And we already have rookie projections up.
Ashton Genty, this is a good one.

Speaker 1 Currently, the betting favorite to win offensive rookie of the year is set at a higher lower of

Speaker 1 1,049.5 rushing yards. You bang that over.

Speaker 1 Higher. You bang it.

Speaker 1 Cam Ward's passing yards set at higher or lower, 31,49.5. You bang the lower.
You bang it.

Speaker 1 You bang it.

Speaker 7 It was 31.49.5 on Thursday night. Right now on Saturday, it's already up to 31.99.5.
That's why you got to go get these done right now because these projections are moving.

Speaker 2 This is from an attic.

Speaker 1 Unless, Justin, you were already banging the lower. You just bang it again.
And you tell your friends.

Speaker 7 Well, you could hit the sweet spot. You hit the higher on 31.49 and the lower on 31.99 and win both addicts for 319.9.

Speaker 2 Psychotic.

Speaker 1 And I love it.

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Speaker 1 Okay, so let's talk about other things, okay, because there's plenty to talk about here. Connor,

Speaker 1 I want to talk about who you think nailed it?

Speaker 1 Who had a great seven rounds or a great run of picks that you think are going to set them up well for 25 and beyond?

Speaker 3 I have two, but let's start with the Cowboys,

Speaker 3 which just absolutely crushes me to say it. I mean, my God, during this draft, I've defended the Browns, an organization that I gave away,

Speaker 3 And now I'm kind of pumping up the Cowboys.

Speaker 3 Like, trust me,

Speaker 3 this sucks for me.

Speaker 3 I'm not excited about it. But if you look.

Speaker 1 But it also shows your integrity, and that's important, too.

Speaker 3 I suppose. It shines through.

Speaker 3 And if I'm Brian Schottenheimer, I'm not totally excited, but if I'm Matt Eberflues, I'm absolutely thrilled because Eberflus likes to play minimum blitz defense.

Speaker 3 He likes to win with his guys up front. And so Ezeraku from Boston College, hugely productive guy that I think a lot of people had first-round grades on, slips to them in the second.

Speaker 3 You can pair him with Parsons. And what Iberflus does really well is like, you know, kind of your stunts in your games, right?

Speaker 3 I'm going to have this guy loop in and then this guy crash on the other side. Now he has the speed and kind of the dogs to do that.

Speaker 3 But Revel, this kid, the cornerback from East Carolina, if you look at just the tape of him, and he missed most of 2024 with a torn ACL.

Speaker 3 But 2023, you watched that game against Michigan, and that was the Michigan team that I guess stole a bunch of signs and won the national championship.

Speaker 3 But he is dominant against the best college program in the country.

Speaker 3 There was a play where Colston Loveland knocked him out cold on like a blind side block, and he still tackles the guy in the backfield. He can recover.
He's got like a Richard Sherman body type.

Speaker 3 And so that gives Matt Eberflues a ton of flexibility on the back end because, like, even when he's beat five, 10 yards, he can recover, he can swat the ball away.

Speaker 3 And I think teams just stayed away from him because of the injury issues, right? That's the major red flag.

Speaker 3 But the one advantage to being the unfireable GM in Jerry Jones is that you can always make this pick because it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 You did that with Jalen Smith out of Notre Dame a couple years ago when everyone thought that he could never play it.

Speaker 3 And now you're doing it again with a guy who dropped two rounds because of the fear over that torn ACL. And he had some

Speaker 3 history of injuries in high school. But my God, like if this guy's healthy like that,

Speaker 3 he's quite possibly the best cornerback in this whole draft class. Like, period.

Speaker 1 Sexy. Yeah.
I mean, I'll throw another team out there that I thought had a really good weekend.

Speaker 1 And I don't want to, I'm not going to get here and pretend like I could tell you why this prospect or that prospect is going to translate as a pro because even the people that study the tape don't know.

Speaker 1 We don't know how these guys are going to play. But I can talk about teams from how they attack their roster needs and how they're building around certain players.

Speaker 1 I think one of the most fascinating people in the NFL entering 2025 is Caleb Williams.

Speaker 1 I think he had one of the more interesting,

Speaker 3 topsy-turvy

Speaker 1 rookie years ever.

Speaker 1 And I really do believe him. I do think he is good.
So, what I wanted to see personally, and I'm sure a lot of Bears fans are in the same boat, was like, all right, help this kid.

Speaker 1 Like, give him what he didn't have last year, which was better protection, more weapons. So, what do they do? Okay.

Speaker 1 So, they make

Speaker 1 they in the free agency, they attack the offensive line. Very nice.

Speaker 1 Then they go in the first round, the top 10, and they take Colston Loveland, the guy you just mentioned, who has the power to knock a man out cold when he gains ahead of steam.

Speaker 1 So you give him an important seam stretcher type player. Then Ryan Poles comes and gets more help

Speaker 1 with, what's his name, Luther Bird in the third. And this is apparently a type of player who has drawn similarities in play to Debo Samuel.
We'll see. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.

Speaker 1 But you get another playmaker in there. Then they go back and they add in the third round another offensive tackle in Ozzy Trapillo.
So

Speaker 1 you have a GM and a team that's saying, we believe in this kid.

Speaker 1 We believe in his upside. There's a reason why we took him as the face of the franchise.
And we'll see how it all works.

Speaker 1 But Ben Johnson and Poles, I think, handled and attacked this draft the right way. I'm with you.

Speaker 2 I think, like, what can we do on these days other than to say, like, it seems like you made smart decisions, you didn't overreach.

Speaker 2 I'm with you. I think we're in the same camp too.

Speaker 2 I'll throw a team out there.

Speaker 2 I thought the Seahawks

Speaker 2 did a nice job. Okay.
Like, and I'm really only going to point to a couple things here.

Speaker 2 Like, you trade up for Nick Emanwori, like, the safety, who is, I get it on their saying, it's a bit of a raw prospects, but this is a Seahawks type player. And then you are the team that went and got

Speaker 2 Jalen Milro, the quarterback. Like, and you've got time.
You've got Sam Darnold there. And so it's like you've got time to let him incubate and grow.

Speaker 2 And like, they're already saying this is one of the best running quarterback prospects around of all time, potentially. And let the rest of it just develop and be in an NFL system.

Speaker 2 And you're not rushed to be there like four months from now in September when all hell is breaking loose. Like you can be on the sideline.

Speaker 2 Like I kind of think Seattle under Mike McDonald, like they need to figure out who they are and what they are. They're not Pete Carroll.
It's post-Pete Carroll. Like I like what they did.

Speaker 2 I thought that they just made smart picks.

Speaker 2 And you got the quarterback. Like you keep, we keep, we've spent 30 minutes talking about Shadora Sanders.
Like I would much rather the Browns had taken Jalen Millro.

Speaker 2 Let's find out what you've got there. And so I really love what Seattle did.
That's my

Speaker 3 hot take there.

Speaker 3 I can't cheer this on enough. I think outside of Dallas, and I would say probably slightly above Dallas, I would have put them as my best all-over draft.
And here's why.

Speaker 3 So Eamon Murray is going to help Seattle. Mike McDonald loves big nickel, right? A defense where

Speaker 3 your other extra defensive back is thick enough to handle the run or, you know, fleet of foot enough to handle the pass. That's been labeled by a lot of people as the anti-Shanahan defense.

Speaker 3 It's the one way that you can survive all the things that that offense is trying to get you to do in mixing personnel. And Millrow, I'll just say this, because I went back to some of my notes

Speaker 3 while he was at Alabama, and this is an NFL replicable run game. And you could put him in at quarterback tomorrow when Seattle gets inside the 10-yard line and score at will.

Speaker 3 And one of the coolest things that Alabama did, they ran this version of, you know, like a traditional zone read, right?

Speaker 3 Where a quarterback has to look at the defensive end that's coming and decide whether he wants to pull the ball or hand it off. But Alabama said, F it, we're going to block that guy every time.

Speaker 3 We're going to fake his own read, and then we're just going to get Jalen Milro to the edge. And as soon as he gets to the edge, if it's him and another player, he's going to destroy him.

Speaker 3 And it doesn't matter who it is because you have no one in the secondary that's fast enough, that's strong enough, and you have no linebacker who's fast enough. The player just doesn't exist.

Speaker 3 And you can't tell me that that won't work at the NFL level. I think if Sam Darnold gets the Seahawks to the nine-yard line, yank his ass out and you can put Jalen Milro in there tomorrow.

Speaker 3 That's something that

Speaker 3 you can lock in points with that. And I think that's so exciting.

Speaker 1 That takes a little bit of touch, right? And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Darnold was one of the better red zone passers in the league last year.

Speaker 1 He played very well for Minnesota. But if you handle it with a death touch, it absolutely makes your team harder to defend.
I do wonder if the Seahawks

Speaker 1 made their team better by adding this dynamic quarterback. If I'm Sam Darnold, because I think we talked about this, Connor, that they have an out of that contract after, what, one year? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. And now they take a third-round pick at quarterback.

Speaker 1 And I don't think Darnold will wilt because I think part of the reason why Darnold became such a great comeback story is because he's strong mentally and talented physically. But at the same time,

Speaker 1 now you have someone that they're obviously very high on that they use the third-round pick on.

Speaker 1 It's just something to keep an eye on if Darnold struggles this year, that they do have somebody that they targeted this year in the draft behind him on the depth chart.

Speaker 2 Is it like, it is the kind of thing where like, if you're

Speaker 1 a cheap option, by the way, we'll add that as well.

Speaker 2 Absolutely, yeah. But if you're Darnold, it's like you brought one of the, like, like all we hear about Miller is like.

Speaker 2 There's a sexy element to his game where it's like the minute that Darnold struggles, which will be like by quarter three of week one.

Speaker 2 And I'm not saying struggle hard, but just like you want to go see this other guy.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't love that for middling quarterbacks who are not Peyton Manning, like where you've got a guy behind you that has like superhero type skills.

Speaker 2 But that said, like, if you're the Seahawks, of course, you go do it.

Speaker 3 Well, so, first of all, I mean, you know, we didn't mention this at all. You have Gray Zabel, who was like one of the best offensive linemen, most versatile offensive linemen in the draft.

Speaker 3 And that's what you lead off with. He gives you an answer.

Speaker 2 Daniel Jeremiah's number one player in the draft.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, Gray Zabel is awesome.

Speaker 3 He will allow you to maybe even shuffle other guys around based on how camp turns out.

Speaker 3 So if you have maybe a guy that's a tackle, it's a better guard, guard that could kick out the tackle, a center that could kick out the guard, he's going to give you all that versatility and he's going to help you kind of elevate that whole thing.

Speaker 3 But to just kind of put a button on the Millro thing, I might be in the minority on this, but I think your backup should be stylistically different to some degree and should be able to have answers in the run game specifically because if you have a traditional drop back backup quarterback, he's just a crappier version of what you already have.

Speaker 3 Whereas if you have one of the top 10 most gifted running quarterbacks in the NFL, you still have an advantage in some way, shape, or form, where even if your lead guy goes out, there's a package of plays that you have that you can win with and potentially outmuscle a team with.

Speaker 3 And I think that's what was really smart. And what, the last time John Schneider drafted a quarterback in the third round ended up being russell wilson so wasn't uh wasn't that bad you know

Speaker 1 true true true so i mentioned um

Speaker 1 the chicago uh rookie quarterback uh from last year and what how we believe that he can be special potentially given the right setup another guy that entered the league last year in new england is drake may sese i know you were you were a fan of what the patriots did this draft

Speaker 2 absolutely i mean,

Speaker 2 look at like Trayvion Henderson, our friend, you know, Joss Norris, one of his favorite running backs, and I think that this is a difference-making type of running back.

Speaker 2 They went and got their offensive lineman early.

Speaker 2 It's a very, it was very much a Mike Vabel draft to me, where it showed, what I like about it, if you're a Patriots fan, Mike Vrabel disenfranchised from the Titans because I think there were general manager coach issues, right, Justin?

Speaker 2 And like, I think what it shows me about New England is like Mike Vrabel, I'm not saying he's in control. That's so great, but they got a running back.

Speaker 2 They got a great offensive lineman, and your quarterback is being supported by two difference-making individuals. So if you're New England, come out of here just not effing this up, basically.

Speaker 2 And I thought they did a very solid, clean job.

Speaker 1 You could put that label on every team, right? Don't F this thing up. Yes.
All 32. Not the goal.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 7 And Mark, you didn't mention Kyle Williams, who they grabbed, I think, in the third round. One of my favorite players in the draft.

Speaker 7 I think Hayden Winks, who does the show with Josh Norris, projected him when they did their day two mock, had him going 35 to the Titans, which would have been a dream come true for me.

Speaker 7 He goes much later here in the actual draft, but a guy that can play on the outside, even though he's only 5'11, he's gonna be Drake May's go-to receiver.

Speaker 7 And with Stephon Diggs there, also to kind of help bring him up to speed quickly. My favorite part about Kyle Williams is he has an extremely refined release package.

Speaker 7 He can beat press coverage, which is going to allow him to contribute from day one as a rookie. He's not going to need a big learning curve.
So I think, I agree.

Speaker 7 I think the Patriots knocked it out of the park with this one.

Speaker 2 I have an extremely refined release package, I've been told, just to let you know.

Speaker 1 Also with Ramondre Stevenson coming off a year where he couldn't hold on to the ball, like giving them both somebody, I guess different position, but similar thing, Connor, where it's like, show two different types of guys.

Speaker 1 Like, so now you have Henderson there in the backfield as a dual threat type guy who can win with vision and speed. And Stevenson, if he could hold on to the ball, that could be a really good.

Speaker 1 I always liked Stevenson, and I thought last year was a real big step back for him. But now they have a little bit of a backup plan and potentially a dynamic one if

Speaker 1 those ball security issues continue.

Speaker 1 Do we want to throw some shade at anyone right now? Is there anybody that had an issue with someone's draft or decision-making,

Speaker 1 team, coach, anything like that? Are we all positive here?

Speaker 1 Are we all just out here just believing everything is great and nothing could possibly go wrong?

Speaker 1 Let me, hold on.

Speaker 3 Let me confirm this because, like we said, we started this at the very, very end of the draft. And so I don't want to be factually incorrect when I start complaining about this.

Speaker 3 The The Jacksonville Jaguars still

Speaker 3 do not have a damn defensive tackle.

Speaker 1 Like, what the f?

Speaker 3 Like, I'm sorry, but like, this is like,

Speaker 3 it's a position of need. And every single person who's

Speaker 1 get in free agency, right? The new league year is coming up. They're okay, right?

Speaker 3 Every single person who has gone in there and tried to fix it and left is like, we've got great linebackers who can fly around.

Speaker 3 We've got great edge players and no one to hold it together in the middle and then you were sitting at five with the best defensive tackle in the draft plopping straight into your lap and you traded up for a player that like okay we're you know we're changing the world i'm the steve jobs with iphones and i did it and uh

Speaker 3 you know like

Speaker 3 get a damn defensive tackle the eagles just kick the out of everybody by getting defensive tackles it's like what's the louis ck line like stop complaining just eat food. Like, just

Speaker 3 get a defensive tackle.

Speaker 1 My God. I liked, this is one of my favorite subplots of this upcoming season.
Connor very clearly has an issue with Jaguars general manager James Gladstone.

Speaker 2 It is not, it is overt.

Speaker 1 It seems almost personal, and

Speaker 1 we can dig into that, or maybe Connor could dig into that with his therapist. But Gladstone

Speaker 1 didn't come on here

Speaker 3 and do this. I'm not ready to go.

Speaker 1 I think we'll hash it all out. We'll figure it out.
The Peacemaker will have to come in, maybe, if it comes to it. But Gladstone, obviously, I'll tell you what.
If you're Joey Gladstone, right?

Speaker 1 Joey.

Speaker 1 No, if you're James Gladstone, right, and you

Speaker 1 just made the buzziest move of the draft, and you're somebody who doesn't mind talking into a microphone,

Speaker 1 and you don't mind having the stage,

Speaker 1 it gives you all the more reason to go get a Travis Hunter. So with that said,

Speaker 1 let's play a little clip of

Speaker 1 the press conference where Travis Hunter was introduced to the Jacksonville and, I suppose, national media. And just to give it a little extra touch, because the man speaks with a cinematic flourish.

Speaker 1 There's something about the way he...

Speaker 1 He's an orator of great drama. He's a man that I think puts a lot of effort into every word he's going to say.
So he deserved to have a little bit of backing orchestra. So enjoy.

Speaker 1 James Gladstone on Travis Hunter. Connor, I hope your ears don't start bleeding.

Speaker 6 Yeah, you know, as we sit here,

Speaker 6 Travis Hunter is a Jacksonville Jaguar. And really what comes to mind for me, right, thinking about the sport of football and really the power of the game itself, right? Its capacity to ignite belief.

Speaker 6 Belief in ourselves,

Speaker 6 belief in others,

Speaker 6 belief in achieving what many

Speaker 1 impossible.

Speaker 6 Travis Hunter,

Speaker 6 he embodies belief.

Speaker 6 He's a rare person,

Speaker 6 he's a rare player, but he's also a reminder that the boundaries of the game of football were built to be challenged.

Speaker 6 And so the decision to select him was actually a statement, a statement for how we plan to move who we are, and we want him to be nothing more than him.

Speaker 6 Because when he is,

Speaker 6 he elevates his face around.

Speaker 6 From the football field to the city to the game of football itself, Travis Hunter is who we've been hunting up. You couldn't be more jacked to be sitting right here beside him and introduce you all.

Speaker 6 to the man of the hour.

Speaker 1 Wouldn't that be a great controversy if

Speaker 1 it surfaced the next couple days that he just like liberally sampled from his own 2021 high school Valve Victorian speech from 2021?

Speaker 2 That is no different than when I have you ever like I

Speaker 2 when I've gone to like like with a girlfriend, I've got a girlfriend like I forgot to pick something up at CVS and I come home with a speech about why

Speaker 2 Here's the thing. CVS was not ready for me.
The front door was not ready for me. Like they got a lot of things going on over there.

Speaker 2 So it's like you just got to come up with, like, he, I think, I like, I kind of like his verbal spinning there a little bit.

Speaker 3 I mean, that's how you talk when you're about to put a fucking human on Mars.

Speaker 3 Not because you just blew up the next four drafts to get a cornerback and a wide receiver that may not even play cornerback and wide receiver. But to Joey.

Speaker 2 Well, he's also not it. Can be can be fair, he's not super clunky compared to some of these people.

Speaker 1 Like, right.

Speaker 2 He is a pretty good on the mic. Like,

Speaker 1 I think that's almost,

Speaker 1 I don't want to to be too cynical but almost part of the problem he's almost too slick he's a he loves it a little too much like and you almost you almost start to wonder like it strikes you as

Speaker 1 i don't know a little bit disingenuous at a certain point like what is this guy really

Speaker 1 is is he is he is he pumping up travis hunter right now and the jaguars or is he is he speaking this way just to let you know how amazing he is if it gets on connor's radar though i kind of am fascinated fascinated by it.

Speaker 3 The more I talk about this, the deeper I bury myself when they win the Super Bowl next year, which is going to be so awful.

Speaker 3 But I have two quick incredible defensive tackle play.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 So I have two thoughts on this. One, if I'm Liam Cohen, I'm like, oh shit.
Like, don't talk about this guy.

Speaker 3 Because then if I can't do it, then who's the owner going to blame when this guy isn't awesome? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Poor Liam Cohen. We'll get to Liam in a second.

Speaker 3 But the second part of this, and I think this is what I love about Jordan, she encourages me to find the roots of my frustrations and my problems.

Speaker 3 And this, my annoyance with this dates back to freshman year of college. And there was a guy who's in our circle.

Speaker 3 And, you know, when you're in college, your first year and you're really bright-eyed and you have all these big ideas. I knew I wanted to work at a newspaper, right? So no one's going to come near me.

Speaker 3 You know, I'm not financially attractive. You know, I'm not physically attractive.

Speaker 3 But there's this guy who, you know, was in the ROTC. So he liked wearing the uniform.
And I have no problem with our armed services, but like was also like, yeah,

Speaker 3 I'm a nuclear engineering major. And also like, I'm going to double major in law so I can do this thing.
And like, you're, he's a f ⁇ ing substitute teacher now.

Speaker 3 And again, there's nothing wrong with that, but like you can say all sorts of wild bullshit, but you have to do it. And so I'm one of those people that's like, do it first and then.

Speaker 3 give the Steve Jobs speech about how you're going to change the world. Like be Steve Kerr and win like nine NBA titles and then talk like you're fucking, you know, whatever, Beethoven.

Speaker 1 I think that's like, that's

Speaker 2 do you feel lucky? Do you feel lucky at some times that like Connor just kind of vaguely likes us out of the gate, like versus the, I've been thinking about this person since freshman year of college.

Speaker 1 Like I just got this on that. This is pre-TNC Connor.
He still comes out and we love when pre-TNC Connor comes out because he's got that dog in him. Can we just, yeah, like, can we just, just,

Speaker 1 and yes, of course, the 2016 Chrysler County Country on the used cars to avoid list. And

Speaker 1 sure enough, right there. And it wasn't just like just 2016, it was 13, 14, 15, 16.
It's like a dynasty situation of avoidance. But anyway, like, beside the point, the point is

Speaker 1 that Liam Cohen, if you watch,

Speaker 1 in fact, help me out with this, Justin. Watch Liam Cohen's face because I can't, as James Gladstone is giving this speech, I can't tell if Liam Cohen is

Speaker 1 inspired or if it's more that look like where it's like, get a load of this f ⁇ ing.

Speaker 1 Let's look right. Give me a tight shot on Cohen during this speech, please.

Speaker 1 In a non-branded polo, by the way, just a black. He just looked at his watch.
He literally just looked at his watch.

Speaker 2 Got some guns. Got some guns, though.
But yeah, it looks disenchanted, vaguely.

Speaker 1 I don't know about disenchanted, but kind of like... Really? You know, I got to talk to Gladstone.
You're kind of... You're sucking up all the oxygen on the Deus here, bud.

Speaker 2 That is a great point about that presser specifically. Like, Liam Cohen was like the eighth most important part of that press.

Speaker 1 Which is a problem because there was only three people sitting up there.

Speaker 1 Barely audible during it. How much, every single one of these Jordan's going to be so disappointed with us in this whole conversation? Yeah, I know.
That's the worst part of it.

Speaker 3 Every one of these things is a move on a chessboard, right? And, you know, football is this political,

Speaker 3 you know, meat spinner of a disaster all the time, right? And it's who has the owner's ear at any given time.

Speaker 3 And for a while, it was someone else, some other GM in the Jaguars franchise history that was totally, and Trent Balky, who was totally just sending this franchise on a wayward direction, but he had the owner's ear, and that's what mattered.

Speaker 3 And now, you know, again, if you're Liam Cohen, it's like, what happens if this guy that the owner believes is absolutely going to change modern professional football?

Speaker 3 What happens if he has like 400 snaps at corner and like a 73% completion allowed rate? Like,

Speaker 1 I don't want to go, we're going down this road again where you're saying he's not going to be a dynamic player. Maybe he will, maybe he won't.

Speaker 1 But Liam Cohen's probably thinking, I'm an offensive genius.

Speaker 1 I'm so good at offensive game planning and execution that I was able to just kick my old team in the nuts and go over and get a new head coaching job in Jacksonville.

Speaker 1 So he's probably thrilled right now. You just don't see it because he's like thinking,

Speaker 1 when will my GM stop talking?

Speaker 3 We are in so much trouble with Jordan, though. This is

Speaker 1 and Jordan, because I know Jordan listens. And one of the many reasons I love Jordan is that she listens to our show religiously.
I think

Speaker 1 he's good for the product. He's good.
I'm glad Gladstone's here. Much better than the last guy, Balky Bartakamis.
Nothing to talk about with Balky. Right.

Speaker 1 Joey Gladstone, tons to talk about.

Speaker 1 He's theater. He's box office, baby.
I probably got some familiarity with the

Speaker 9 them picks

Speaker 9 sort of process. So for our fans, I'll tell you, don't be scared.
This is something I'm uniquely positioned to navigate.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 up with Jack.

Speaker 9 We ended up bringing Travis Hunter to Jacksonville.

Speaker 2 He is like a young Bella Lugosi. Like, I'm a little concerned about, like...

Speaker 1 He's a man that adores the smell of his own farts. That would be my guess.

Speaker 3 Let's put it this way. If you were to put him in a movie, right?

Speaker 3 And with no context at all.

Speaker 1 He is in a movie, his own movie right now. Yes.

Speaker 2 But bad guy, bad guy, right?

Speaker 1 That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 Young bad guy.

Speaker 1 Putting him into the movie.

Speaker 2 And he's not the friend.

Speaker 3 Correct. Yeah.
I'm just saying that. That's you know.

Speaker 2 You're absolutely right. Typecast, like, we are, we are, as humans,

Speaker 2 we are directed and built to not like him out of the gate.

Speaker 1 Well, not everyone.

Speaker 1 But we are. Well, okay.
But we're cynical.

Speaker 2 Well, we are, but I see where Connor's coming from. Like, if you were to cast him, it's like

Speaker 2 a Zane, a young, like, Zane on Titanic, I ton on Titanic, like a young,

Speaker 1 let me, let me paint the yin to the yang on that. You could also cast him as the hyper idealistic young man that's come to save the town from the crooked back.

Speaker 2 But then we're missing, then we're changing his character, though, because like the whole thing.

Speaker 1 I never said he's evil.

Speaker 2 No, but the way he speaks, the way, I think to Connor's point,

Speaker 2 I get where Connor's coming from on the

Speaker 2 casting side of it. And so would, you know.

Speaker 3 This is a reference that maybe only Justin will understand because he's the closest to a child on this show. But like, it reminds me of like the Lego movie

Speaker 3 where,

Speaker 3 you know, you have like Batman, Lego Batman, and all these like heroes that talk like heroes and walk like heroes and act like heroes.

Speaker 3 But the actual hero of the Lego movie is just an ordinary guy named Emmett.

Speaker 3 And so, you know, I think that I'm getting Lego Batman vibes a little bit from this, where like, yes, you are part of the solution, but the real hero here is going to be someone that's far more ordinary.

Speaker 1 This is going to be a great year.

Speaker 1 It really is.

Speaker 1 You know what I didn't love? I'll throw out something I didn't love.

Speaker 1 Okay. I'll throw out,

Speaker 1 you know, the Ravens, man.

Speaker 1 They never cease to disappoint those guys.

Speaker 1 In terms of, you know, they don't care what you think. The idea of character issues, we're fine.
You know, Justin Tucker's still on this team. How's that investigation going, by the way? Sure, right.

Speaker 1 We're still waiting on that. You know, you have.

Speaker 1 Party boys asleep at the wheel. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, they select Mike Green, 59th overall in round two. Rapsheet reported Friday that Green had fallen in the draft because of not one, but two separate sexual assault allegations.

Speaker 1 He wasn't charged in either case. Okay.
And

Speaker 1 the only thing I'll say to that is when the GM, in this case, Eric DaCosta, said that the team, quote, investigated the situation very thoroughly, quote, and close quote, and open quote, felt comfortable taking him, close quote.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Like, maybe that's true.

Speaker 1 And again, I don't know any of the details of Green's legal issues, so I'm not casting judgment on him, but it is interesting that it's the Ravens that are the ones that decide, oh, we're okay taking this guy despite all this stuff.

Speaker 1 Maybe, maybe when it comes to the Ravens, the fact that he could be a star edge rusher

Speaker 1 and he fell in the draft,

Speaker 1 you're just going to game the system from that perspective. Ethics and morals, uh, be damned.
So, just the Ravens seem to, that pops up a lot with those guys.

Speaker 3 Well, if you're gonna do that with Baltimore, we have to do it with the fact that, like, Howie isn't a superstar GM.

Speaker 3 Well, he is, but, like, also, Jalen Carter was available at that spot for a reason, you know, and he completely changed the complexion of that Super Bowl team. And so, you know, it is what it is.

Speaker 3 It's just, you know, right.

Speaker 1 You know, maybe he's looking at that example more than

Speaker 1 taking through the past that might not be savory.

Speaker 1 And then the other one is the Steelers. I think that the situation with the Steelers, and I get it, especially in this draft,

Speaker 1 they didn't love a quarterback.

Speaker 1 They obviously didn't love Sanders.

Speaker 1 They passed on that. And it's just all the eggs are in the

Speaker 1 Aaron Rodgers basket, and it continues to point in that direction.

Speaker 1 Rapsheet was on the NFL network coverage, and Art Rooney, owner of the Steelers, reiterated on the radio that Aaron Rodgers does want to come here, but they're still waiting for the old smokestack to come up.

Speaker 1 And it's just, you know, that's hopefully he doesn't change his mind because now free agency is over and the draft's over.

Speaker 1 And if Rodgers, the man who's known to be Mercurial, if that goes in a different direction, all of a sudden you're giving up seven first-round picks to the Falcons for Kirk Cousins and caving to their demands, Connor.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 you're playing with fire with Rodgers, and now they don't have any other option to take this other than their in-house guys, which we know are not the answer.

Speaker 3 I would say it's cousins, right, and potentially Derek Carr at this point, too,

Speaker 3 that might give you an out. But again, that's two teams that know that they have you by the short ones, effectively, if Rodgers decides he wants to play for the Vikings or walk away or, you know,

Speaker 3 join the government, whatever he's going to do, you know?

Speaker 2 Join the government. Exactly.

Speaker 1 Hey, I want to give some shout-outs.

Speaker 1 How about Hook'em Horns, Gravy, UT Edge,

Speaker 1 Baron Sorrell?

Speaker 1 I got that right?

Speaker 1 Sorrell. Sorrell.
Baron Sorrell, who

Speaker 1 chilled in the green room.

Speaker 1 From Thursday night until pick 124 of the fourth round, that stick-to-ativeness.

Speaker 1 That is a guy I want on my team. The Packers take him.
Here was Rog who came up to the stage and let the audience in on it without saying it directly.

Speaker 1 Hey, make sure you shower this guy with a little extra love.

Speaker 10 This young man is here today, so we want to introduce him.

Speaker 1 So give him a good round of applause. With the 124th pick, look at him in jeans.
In the 2025 Edible Draft, the Green Bay Packers select Baron Sorrell,

Speaker 10 defensive end, Texas.

Speaker 1 There he is. Good for you.

Speaker 11 Here's why the commissioner came out to announce it because Baron Sorrell

Speaker 11 has been in the green room this entire time.

Speaker 11 And here he is.

Speaker 1 I like the idea that he never went home either. I know that's not true,

Speaker 1 but he's just been wearing the same clothes for three days, hasn't brushed his teeth in 72 hours.

Speaker 1 But I think

Speaker 2 that's the thought that yesterday was going to be a little bit more than a hundred

Speaker 2 years.

Speaker 2 That my mom has worn around town

Speaker 1 on occasion.

Speaker 1 What else? Best names of the draft. Okay.
I got one. Oh, we've got it.
I got a bronze, silver, and gold, and just let me know if you agree, disagree, or want to add to it.

Speaker 1 Bronze Isaac Tesla. Tesla? Tesla?

Speaker 3 I think it's Tesla, but it's spelled T-E-capital S

Speaker 3 L A A. So it sounds like

Speaker 3 it sounds like an electronic artist that's opening at Coachella.

Speaker 2 It feels unnecessary to me, but have a nice time with with

Speaker 2 it.

Speaker 1 What's unnecessary? His name? Mark

Speaker 2 putting a capital S. Like, I've got an S in the middle of my life.

Speaker 1 You got a C instead of a K, and nobody's giving you grief for it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but I don't capitalize.

Speaker 1 Do I capitalize?

Speaker 2 Like, if it was Sessler, S-E-S-, S-E-S-S-S-E-S, capital S. Like, that's it.

Speaker 1 I hope he's not.

Speaker 1 I hope Isaac's not getting caught up in, like, I hope people aren't vandalizing him. You know, they're not spraying him down.

Speaker 1 It's the one. Leave Isaac Tesla alone.

Speaker 3 It's the one Tesla whose stock is going up.

Speaker 1 Way to turn a bad joke into a slightly better, but still bad joke.

Speaker 1 Silver medal goes to Reuben Hippolyte II.

Speaker 1 Hell yeah.

Speaker 1 And the gold medal.

Speaker 1 And this one's a little personal because there was a kid that went by this nickname when I was in middle school who was a real piece of shit. A real dirtbag.

Speaker 1 The type of kid that you didn't want to be near. And if you were, he was probably trying to make your day very bad.
But maybe that's what you want in a football player. Tonka Hemingway.

Speaker 1 Let's go.

Speaker 1 What was the

Speaker 3 Tonka Hemingway? Was the piece of...

Speaker 1 Give me all you got. I'll take all that you got, Tonka Hemingway.

Speaker 1 What position do you play? I don't know. Who are you? Where did you go to college? Don't care.
Tonka Hemingway, you could play on my team anytime.

Speaker 3 I like that you said, so

Speaker 3 the piece of shit kid

Speaker 3 that you grew up with,

Speaker 3 we used to call,

Speaker 3 my friend used to call them P-O-S kids, piece of shit kids, which is like a really funny thing.

Speaker 3 Was his nickname Tonka or Hemingway? Because you said it was his nickname.

Speaker 1 Well, no, his name is we could bleep out his real last name. He was Larry Tonka.

Speaker 3 Oh, so the nickname was Tonka.

Speaker 1 Your soak old friend?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Nickame was Tonka. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Okay. I didn't know if his nickname was Hemingway.
Like maybe he was dumb and you were like, oh, hey, Hemingway, would you write me a sentence, you dumbass?

Speaker 1 No, it wasn't, it wasn't, I didn't know someone named Tonka Hemingway.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, I knew it was either Tonka or Hemingway.

Speaker 3 I just didn't know if it wasn't. That would be incredible.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Like, like, like, hey, you would call someone Einstein if they weren't smart. Like, Hemingway seems like it's in that.

Speaker 1 Like, if this Tonka is still alive, the one from middle school, I like the idea of him being a 45-year-old guy that just got drafted in the league and was like a huge bully.

Speaker 1 But he was so stupid that it took him this long to graduate college and now he's joining the NFL.

Speaker 3 What a story. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's like 16.

Speaker 2 He's not in that scenario. Kind of want.

Speaker 1 Deep lines on his face, like the Marlboro man. All right.
I don't see anything.

Speaker 2 16.

Speaker 1 The trades that didn't happen, by the way, kind of waited on something, one of these names. I know Sam Howell got traded, but, you know, have fun with that.
Lola.

Speaker 1 Jalen Ramsey, still on the Dolphins. Jair Alexander, still a Packer.
Mark Andrews, still a Raven. Dallas Goddard, still an Eagle.
Trey Hendrickson, not going anywhere at this time.

Speaker 1 Although they did take an edge rusher in the Cincinnati Bengals in the round one. Tyree.
Really good one, by the way.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Really good edge rush.

Speaker 2 I think most of that is tied up to

Speaker 2 like post-June 1, like avoid dead cap, hellacious spaces. Like with Ramsey, especially.
You can just trade Ramsey today. You're dealing with like a millions of dollars of dead cap.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it's not that much better then either. So that whole thing feels like a broken relationship.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 a couple more things. Um,

Speaker 1 and you guys jump in with anything either. Oh, the Ravens drafted a kicker.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 That's good to know. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 Baltimore selected Arizona's Tyler Loop in the sixth round on Saturday. Okay.
Three months after Justin Tucker, who's still on the the team, was accused of sexual misconduct on a serial scale.

Speaker 1 Uniform talk.

Speaker 1 You know, these kids at today, I mean, you do not, and this is coming from a kid of the 80s and 90s who

Speaker 1 knew who Lawrence Taylor was and what he represented.

Speaker 2 Sure.

Speaker 1 I know Abdul Carter is the number three overall pick, but, bud, we don't ask Lawrence Taylor to take 56 out of mothballs. Well,

Speaker 1 okay.

Speaker 1 Connor,

Speaker 1 he's literally Lawrence Taylor.

Speaker 1 I want to hear your take. And just, I'll just give you that

Speaker 1 Carter approached LT,

Speaker 1 and LT declined to give up 56 for the new Giants defender. The quote being, he has to be the player that he is.
He told ESPN, LT did. He can't be another Lawrence Taylor.

Speaker 1 Well, he may be better than Lawrence Taylor. Who knows? But he has to make his mark.
It's up to him. Yes, Connor, your take.

Speaker 3 Yeah, let's make a mark like Lawrence Taylor has on the world at large outside of football.

Speaker 3 And, you know, talk about that for a second.

Speaker 3 I have reverence for him.

Speaker 3 And I'm not, this is not like an anti-LT take, but it's like you are incredibly lucky in the sense that you were this outlier athlete that one coach who turned out to be one of the greatest coaches in NFL history decided to just use you in a way that was extraordinarily revolutionary at the time.

Speaker 3 Like we weren't, we didn't have fast guys coming off the edge.

Speaker 1 You refer to Bill Parcels and Bill Belichick.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so, you know, we didn't use edge rushers like that back then. And this was the first.
And, you know, Lawrence Taylor didn't come to meetings. He didn't show up on time for anything.

Speaker 3 And so for him to have this like, I earned it attitude, it's like, well, kind of, you know, you were very special, but you were also used in an incredibly revolutionary way by two very smart people.

Speaker 3 And just like, give the the guy your number. Who gives a shit?

Speaker 1 Wait a second. Wait a second.

Speaker 1 Can I talk honor?

Speaker 3 Just say crazy stuff.

Speaker 1 Wait a second. Wait a second.
Wait a second. Wait a second.

Speaker 1 I can handle.

Speaker 1 I can handle. I like when I step in it with you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I can handle, holy God. I can handle you poo-pooing the importance of Travis Hunter because he hasn't done anything in the NFL.
So

Speaker 1 if you want to kind of bring him down, take him down a few pegs, okay. Yet.
But

Speaker 1 I will not stand for you on this program, in this broadcast,

Speaker 1 somehow positioning literally Lawrence Taylor as what, a system player who has happened to be fortunate that he had the right coaches to make him the player he was.

Speaker 1 Yes, he had two of the great coaches ever.

Speaker 1 But what you're saying about how he didn't show up to meetings and didn't even, that guy doesn't even know what the, what teams were playing in what cities, like that was, to me, that burnishes like his legend.

Speaker 1 It's the the same thing with like Mickey Mantles. Like he showed up to half his games hung over with his ACL blown for 20 straight years and he hit 536 homers and hit 300.

Speaker 1 Like it just almost speaks more to LT's greatness.

Speaker 1 I have to weigh in there because

Speaker 2 like the ageism that I deal with on the show is non-stop.

Speaker 2 But like I literally watched the early years of Lawrence Taylor where I'd hear announcers say like, this is one of the most impactful players in the league.

Speaker 1 Apparently not.

Speaker 2 It's like a top two or three impactful player in professional football. And it was like, I didn't get it as a young person because he was a linebacker.

Speaker 2 And he's on like five bushels of cocaine and destroying quarterbacks, like, which I think is a talent, by the way.

Speaker 2 And the idea that we're just plugging him in as a Latter-day Saints type of like

Speaker 1 assistant. Like he's Barry Horowitz or something in wrestling parlance.
Like, what?

Speaker 2 This was a different type of.

Speaker 1 He's winding us up now, or.

Speaker 2 And Connor, I'd love to hear your response to it, but it's just like, it's like, this was one of the...

Speaker 1 I don't even know if his microphone should be on the rest of the show. Well,

Speaker 2 I don't know if Belichick gets the head coaching job he got in Cleveland without Lawrence Taylor.

Speaker 3 But I don't know if Lawrence Taylor has the career he did without Bill Belichick.

Speaker 1 Like Lawrence Taylor might be working at a gas station, apparently, if he didn't have Parcels and Belichick coaching him.

Speaker 3 I mean, is that hard to believe, though?

Speaker 3 There are like incredible outlier freak athletes and like special transcendent talents across history that never worked out because they were drafted by like the, you know, mid-90s Carolina shitbags.

Speaker 3 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 So, yeah, let's, let's, speaking of those types of teams, let's, let's end the uniform corner with something else that's grinding my gears.

Speaker 3 You know, the, the.

Speaker 1 The Tennessee Titans, they almost got out of this weekend without being in the crosshairs.

Speaker 1 I don't understand why

Speaker 1 you continue to poke the bear on this. Warren Moon,

Speaker 1 if you know, again, if you're an old head, you know that Warren Moon is one of the great, really great underappreciated quarterbacks of all time.

Speaker 2 You could throw it as well as any quarterback in the TV.

Speaker 1 And in fact, if Warren Moon didn't spend the early portion of his prime in the CFL, and that was very much tied to the fact that he was a black man playing quarterback in the mid-80s, if the NFL would have given him the full runway of a career, we might be looking at him as a top 10 all-time player, potentially.

Speaker 1 That's how good Warren Moon was.

Speaker 1 He did the most of his damage.

Speaker 1 I can't remember where he finished his career. Oh, yeah, because he had great years with the Vikings too.
Unbelievable player. But with the Houston Oilers, Warren Moon was the man, number one uniform.

Speaker 1 The Titans, I don't know if they greased his palm or what, or Warren just was given the opportunity to come out and be back in the spotlight, which I know a lot of these retired guys crave that and I understand it.

Speaker 1 What a spectacle the Titans make of themselves. They fly in Moon to Nashville, not Houston, because he never played in Nashville, but they fly him in there to

Speaker 1 ceremonially hand Cam Ward, the number one overall pick,

Speaker 1 the jersey number one.

Speaker 1 And I just,

Speaker 1 I can't deal with it, Justin, enough. Just give up the ghost.

Speaker 7 I think you're way off on this one, Dan. I think

Speaker 1 Connor, Justin disagrees on this one.

Speaker 7 You're lucky you have the Titans Online Insider here to give you some more detail because you haven't gone deep enough onto what's happening and why this happened.

Speaker 1 Warren Moore, Cam Ward. Okay, fair, fair.
Educate me. Let's go.

Speaker 7 Cam Ward wore number one for Miami, and he wore it at Washington State before he transferred to Miami. He has talked about it throughout the pre-draft process.

Speaker 7 He was on a Fortnite live stream talking about which number he'd want to wear. And he has said.

Speaker 1 Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know he was on the Fortnite live stream.
Okay.

Speaker 7 He's repeatedly said he wants to wear number one, but, oh, it depends on what team I get drafted to. Well, after Thursday night, it was like, I want to wear number one, but I got to ask Warren Moon.

Speaker 7 There was a report that Warren Moon is considering allowing his number to be unretired for Cam Ward. I'm going to play you.

Speaker 1 Unretired for what? Considering.

Speaker 7 I'm going to play you the

Speaker 7 sound that, so from that,

Speaker 7 the tweet we just showed, if you're watching on YouTube, he went up and spoke at the podium.

Speaker 1 Oh, you've boiled up some.

Speaker 1 There's only 99 of these things.

Speaker 2 Like, Dan, you're a Yankees fan.

Speaker 3 Like, how dumb is this thing? That, like, now 13 numbers are retired. Now, 15 numbers are retired.
Now, our quarterback's got to be 68.

Speaker 1 Like, what do we do?

Speaker 3 Like, they're numbers. Just move on.

Speaker 1 We're having two different conversations now.

Speaker 1 Let's play the moon. Let me play the Warren Moon down.

Speaker 7 Let me play the Warren Moon sound so I can get to my point.

Speaker 5 As far as the number and everything, but you haven't gotten to your point yet?

Speaker 5 Number one, I think I wore it very honorably for the Houston Oilers organization.

Speaker 5 And my Houston Oilers jersey will probably never be worn again. I hope it won't.
But the Tennessee Titans jersey is going to be worn by Cam.

Speaker 1 So excessive, excessive, excessive.

Speaker 7 The Houston Oilers jersey will never be worn again, I hope. And after this press conference, he answered some questions from media privately.
It wasn't broadcast.

Speaker 7 This is a tweet from my buddy Sam Phelan, who was also the runner-up on the last season of Survivor. He covers the Titans.

Speaker 7 Warren Moon just indicated to me that the Oilers uniforms may never return for the Titans. It factored into his decision to allow Cam Ward to wear number one.

Speaker 7 Moon said the Titans will have new uniforms coming out soon. So, look, Dan, you're getting what you want.
The Titans have already announced they're not going to wear the Oilers uniforms this season.

Speaker 7 And the information we got here is that part of the... conceit of Moon to allow his number to be retired is that the Titans will never wear the Oilers throwback.

Speaker 2 But Justin, you were historically, you historically gaffed that as well. You were a big proponent of them wearing

Speaker 2 marching around in the Oilers uniforms like pornography.

Speaker 1 They were

Speaker 1 trying to hijack the city of Houston's sports history.

Speaker 1 It's the same franchise.

Speaker 1 Claiming Warren Moon as their franchise son when he was never the Titans franchise's son.

Speaker 7 He played for Bud Adams. His daughter owns the team.

Speaker 1 His legacy is in Houston with the Oilers, the team that was taken out of Houston and received a lot of people.

Speaker 7 So the the Houston Texans should have the number one retired team.

Speaker 1 Take other people's stuff.

Speaker 2 When the Titans picked Cam Ward, they put up him on the phone, like, come talk to Lady Amy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That annoyed me.
Like, come talk to Lady Amy.

Speaker 2 Like, who calls their owner Lady Amy?

Speaker 7 Like, that's when they're... Well, Miss Amy is what they call her.
Whatever. But Adams is the one who found Warren Moon and plucked him out of the CFL and put him into the spotlight.

Speaker 1 What does Adams have to say about this?

Speaker 7 Well, he's dead, and his daughter now runs the CFL.

Speaker 1 So we can't let him rest in his nation.

Speaker 7 How is this not a Titans retired number? That's a this is a ridiculous take from you. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 Ridiculous.

Speaker 1 How many games did he play for the Titans?

Speaker 7 He played all of the Houston Oilers are the Titans.

Speaker 1 No, no, how many games did he play for the Tennessee Titans? I'm just curious.

Speaker 2 Well, he's on the bike of Seahawks by then.

Speaker 7 He didn't play for the Titans, which is why he's allowing

Speaker 7 it to be a good one.

Speaker 1 Call it a hunch, Justin, but I don't think we're ever going to get it on the same page on this one.

Speaker 1 A hunch. It's a good hunch.

Speaker 1 All right. I'm out.

Speaker 1 All right. That's it.
That's enough.

Speaker 1 Listen, if you think that we short shrifted your team here, keep in mind next week is around the AFC in 48 minutes and then around the NFC in 48 minutes with special guests.

Speaker 1 So we will cover every team in the week after the draft. And we hope you enjoyed today's ridiculous show and Thursday's live stream and Thursday's recap and Friday morning's Friday fun show.

Speaker 1 If you check that out on patreon.com/slash heat the call and Mark Sessler, I'll give you the final word.

Speaker 2 If I were Jessica, I'd be like, I love that my man walks around in Titans gear non-stop left and right all day long and then Titans.

Speaker 1 What is that?

Speaker 2 Well, no, she's like, she's like, if you can be from, you're from Houston, now you're from Tennessee, you're from Minnesota, you're from Seattle, we can shift our lexicon left and right to do what Justin needs.

Speaker 2 Suddenly, she's got a southern accent. Well,

Speaker 1 that's what I get for giving Mark the last word.

Speaker 2 Wait, Justin is like, I'm gonna remove Mark from the entire show.

Speaker 2 I don't agree with that either. That feels racial.

Speaker 2 But it's been a wonderful time.

Speaker 8 Top 10 football insider.

Speaker 1 Well, I think we need to end it now. All right.
Thank you to everybody. And we'll see you next week.

Speaker 1 Until next time. Eat the call.

Speaker 8 Nationwide is so much more than a great insurance company. They're one of America's largest financial services companies.
Like how I'm more than Saquon Barkley, the NFL's reigning leading rusher?

Speaker 8 I'm also the NFL's leading husher.

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Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 8 I might have just set the hushing record.

Speaker 8 Well, almost. For your insurance and financial needs, nationwide is on your side.

Speaker 1 Nationwide Investment Services Corporation, Ember Finner, Columbus, Ohio.