FULL NFL Draft Round 1 Recap!

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With the first pick in the 2025 NFL draft, the Tennessee Titans collect Cameron Ward, Cornerback, Miami.

There it is, the first pick of 32

on Thursday night in Green Bay, where the 2025 NFL draft went down.

Dan Hans is here with Mark Sessler, Connor Ord, James Palmer, Justin Graver on the ones and twos, an all-star team here to break down the night.

That was round one

of the NFL draft.

Sese, Cam Ward, obviously that was the pick we all knew was coming.

Things started getting more interesting at pick two at the Cleveland Browns.

And if you watched our live stream, you know that Ceci's conflicted about it.

How you doing a couple hours later?

Well, no, like I, as I texted to our small exclusive brain power group, Like, you know, with a little more, well, like with just a tad more reflection, you can see things through different, for, through a different lens.

That's fine.

You can, like, like, I know what I feel like I'm like, we all have guy friends, and no matter like what team they grew up with, like watching, like, their team had the best draft, and they're going to shout at you on the phone.

It's like, I am of the different extreme.

Like, I don't know what they've done, and I just listened to the Jaguars

Brain Trust speak for an hour, and I'm not convinced the Browns weren't taken out behind the woodshed, but we'll see because history would suggest anything is possible.

But

I'm not certain they've won this, but then I'm trying to be optimistic as Connors try to pull me back in.

Let me set the table a little better before throwing it to you, Connor, because what we're referring to is the Jaguars trading up with the Cleveland Browns.

So the Browns moved down three spots with the trade.

Cleveland received the number five pick, a second rounder, number 36, a fourth round selection, number 126, and a 2026 first-round pick from the Jaguars, who got that second pick.

They also got a fourth rounder and a sixth rounder with that second overall pick.

They take Travis Hunter, a player they see as a transcendent talent.

I just went into full Travolta there.

The wickedly talented Travis Hunter.

Connor, why was this the right move for the Cleveland Browns?

Wickedly talented.

Please welcome the wickedly talented, one and only

well, for a couple reasons, right?

You made the Deshaun Watson mistake.

You need to recoup the draft assets.

You need to set yourself up either in the top of the second round to get a quarterback that you want, or you need to build draft assets to get up higher on the board for next year's draft class.

Again, to rectify the mistake that you made for Deshaun Watson.

Also, like I've just been giving this a lot of thought over the last few minutes.

And for example, let's say you're playing the Ravens and Travis Hunter is having a good game for the Browns on the offensive side of the ball.

And then you stick him on defense.

What's John Harbaugh going to do?

He's going to run Derrick Henry right at him and Patrick Ricard.

And what's he going to do on second down?

He's going to do the same thing again and on third down to the point where Travis Hunter will be useless on the other side of the ball.

He's going to try to knock him out of the game.

I think that this is easier for the Jaguars to do in a different division, but the condition, the climate that the Browns play in, plus the fact that this organization has never gotten anything right, makes it so it's impossible to fully realize Travis Hunter's potential.

It can work.

This was the line that I used earlier today.

You can have a unicorn if you have unicorn trainers.

The Browns do not have unicorn trainers.

It just, it's not going to work in Cleveland.

It's not going to work.

James Bauman.

I didn't know unicorn trainers existed, but

they have so many in Jacksonville, it's pretty fortunate for them.

No, here's the problem.

Here's the problem.

I don't think they have unicorn trainers in Jacksonville.

Do you know who their defensive back coach is?

Anthony Perkins?

You know how many years he's been a defensive back coach in the NFL?

Zero before this year.

This is his first year as a defensive back coach.

I think that's a big, big problem.

I've talked to a first-time defensive play caller, too.

Yeah, first time defensive play caller.

And I do think Connor, the position coaches, though, with Travis Hunter are extremely important for a few reasons.

I've talked to a number of defensive back coaches and wide receiver coaches about Hunter specifically.

And it's this.

he is not refined at either position.

Is he unbelievably talented?

Yes.

When I watched his pro day, when I was, I'm sorry, his showcase up in Boulder, and I was there, I'm standing there with my good buddy Steve Smith Sr.

standing next to me, and he's like, we're watching the routes, which are just routes you don't run in the NFL.

They're just a bunch of like fast twitch change of direction type of things to show how unbelievably athletic he is.

He was like, there's so many tells in his routes.

Defensive backs are going to see all of these tells in his routes, and it's not his fault.

He just hasn't played the position a ton and had it refined by a coach.

So then, when I was talking to a receiver coach who was there, he was like, position coaches for Travis Hunter are going to be everything because you have half the time with them and you're going to be fighting for time with them.

And it's up to you in one-on-one situations to not only go, you run a post and this is the play call.

No, we need your hands here.

We need your feet here.

All of this different teaching that has to go on.

The position coaches are huge.

Now, I think his wide receiver coach in Edgar Bennett has been around for an eternity.

He was in Green Bay forever, forever, Raiders forever, maybe a little bit different situation on that side.

All position coaches are not equal in the NFL.

I was talking to a receiver coach who said there's probably five good wide receiver coaches in the NFL, like in his opinion, like really good.

And that's huge for the development of Travis Hunter.

So, my point on this is:

how many people have you talked to, Connor, or Mark or Dan, like that have said in the NFL, because I've talked to a number of them, I don't think this works.

I don't think playing both ways works.

What if it doesn't?

Like, what if it doesn't?

I'm excited to see him try.

I'm very excited to see it because we've never seen it.

But what if it doesn't?

Okay, so

that was a lot of negativity from you guys.

I agree.

I absolutely understand the reasons why

it could not work.

And it could happen for any prospect, for any number of reasons.

By the way, Anthony Perkins could turn into the best defensive backs coach in the league.

Just because he doesn't have experience doesn't mean it's not going to work out.

Same thing with Campanelli who's the other guy.

I was a quality control coach in Green Bay last year, and that's the extent I believe.

I get it, but

the idea here is to bring on someone who is a unicorn.

And you might not have unicorn trainers, but hell man, having a unicorn in the first place is a big deal.

And Connor, your example about John Harbaugh is going to game plan to go right at him on defense.

Well, the part of this is the opposing head coach has to game plan on both sides of the ball to stop this guy because he's a goddamn stud.

At least that's the way James Gladstone and the Jaguars are viewing this, which is why they made the aggressive move up the board.

Here's Gladstone during the draft during his press conference.

There are players who have the capacity to alter a game.

There are players who have the capacity to alter the trajectory of a team.

There are very few players who have the capacity to alter the trajectory of the sport itself.

Travis, while he has a lot to still earn,

in our eyes, has the potential to do just that.

This guy looks like a sophomore sociology major at YouTube.

I know.

What the hell is he telling us?

I would say one thing.

He reminds me of 82 to 85% of the people that I would meet.

I live up in Hollywood, like out at a bar telling you how the world works.

But he did come.

Who old babyface Gladstone?

Yeah, he did come from the Ram system.

And I watched this entire hour-long press conference conference where Liam Cohen was outshone by him.

Like, Gladstone just spoke at will for like 35 minutes about why they did this.

So I think, like, I guess my final point would be, like, I think it can be good for both teams.

Like, it might be right for the Jaguars.

They believe so much in this.

Then Cleveland suddenly picks.

First pick and second round, fourth pick and second round, and you've gotten a defensive player who we know will be successful.

I mean, barring

like a disaster.

Well, or barring like a satellite falling from the sky.

You're right, but I'm saying on paper,

on paper it works.

So it's like, I can be won over to the concept of both teams, but like

this idea that like no one can make it work with Travis Hunter, it's like human creativity is too incredible and too powerful.

And we're just talking about a football player.

Yeah.

This is possible.

To James and Connor's point, correct me if I'm wrong.

You're not saying nobody can make it work, but

he has to be in the right spot.

And maybe Jacksonville isn't the right spot.

And the player you're referring to, Mark, I think was defensive tackle Mason Graham, who the Browns get at five.

But yeah, he's a, they're all, it's all a crapshoot.

Half of these first-round picks are going to wash out of the league in four or five years.

Another of that half, another half will be marginal athletes or replacement level guys.

Like, it's all a dart throw.

So I guess the Jaguars move on this and why I support and why I hate that the Browns did what they did is guys that have that DNA to be potentially special game-changing players.

I think Gladstone maybe went over the top because those are words that are going to stick with him if this doesn't work out by saying he could change the sport itself and all that.

But there's a reason why those words are being said because he's a rare Otani-like talent in the NFL.

And it's going to put meat in the seats and give excitement for people in Jacksonville.

And I thought Cleveland could use that shot in the arm and they don't get it here.

Two things I'll say very quickly.

I do think Gladstone asking around has a great reputation and there are a lot of people that think he's going to succeed there.

And Lesney thinks the world of him and who's a general manager, I think we all think is pretty good at his job.

And he sees a lot of positives in Gladstone.

So I'll think of that.

And then you don't make this trade if you don't have a distinct plan in place with your coaching staff and with your organization of how you're going to use Travis Hunter.

You just don't make the trade if you're going to do that.

But the funny part is a lot of people I've talked to around the league think, A, he's a better wide receiver than he is a corner.

And if he just ends up being a Pro Bowl wide receiver out of this, should you have traded up in the first round and given up a first round pick for a Pro Bowl wide receiver if that's what he is in two to three years?

Listen, I don't want to dog Travis Hunter.

I think he's unbelievable.

I think what we're seeing in terms of the mental capacity to handle two playbooks is the part that's not talked about enough.

It's crazy what he's going to try to accomplish.

And I've seen other players even try it for a second and it doesn't work.

It's fun to watch.

It's going to be fun to watch,

whether it succeeds or fails.

But I do think Gladstone has a plan in place on how they're going to handle this.

And the last thing I'll say on this, you look at the Jaguars' depth chart, and don't forget that last year they absolutely hit their first-round pick at wide receiver out of the park in Brian Thomas Jr.

So you have now

Hunter doesn't have to come in and be the man on the offensive side of the ball.

He could find a role there and be a playmaker, but not have to be the number one receiver.

And I guess, Connor, at the end of the day, like you think about why did they make this move?

Why did Jacksonville add another player on offense and defense?

But I really think they want to, they're so in on Trevor Lawrence, and it's been a lost couple of years.

I don't think they want to leave any shadow of the doubt.

If this guy is going to be the dude they wanted him to be when they brought him into the league, let's give him all the pieces and see if he could finally put it together.

And now there's really nothing you could say, at least in terms of skill makers on the outside, to say that Lawrence was not given enough

toys to play with.

I suppose so, but the only way you can fully sell me on this is if Travis Hunter can play interior defensive line.

That's what the Jaguars have needed for five years.

Like, does James Gladstone have a plan right now for, I mean, Mason Smith, what do we got?

Devon Hamilton?

I mean, that's, that's your, that's who's protecting your linebackers right now and helping your great rush ends.

So I don't know.

Travis Hunter can do that.

An imperfect roster, Gravy.

You got six more rounds, and it's a deep DT class.

Maybe they find someone tomorrow.

Deeper.

All right.

And last note on this: the Cleveland Browns are on the clock as we speak right now, and they have 32.

I believe they're at 36 as well

as a result of this draft.

So keep an eye on what they do because they obviously went in the trenches, and now they could take Shador Sanders.

One of the other big stories here is

Cam Ward comes off at one,

and then Jackson Dart goes to the Giants in the 20s, and then Sanders just sits there.

Tough, tough beat, Ceci, for Shador Sanders here.

Between the entourage he's riding with, there was the guy with the oversized novelty hat with his logo on it, which is a big S and a dollar sign.

He's got $10 million in jewels with his logo on.

He's got his dad there.

He's at a draft party of some kind with his giant logo on the wall.

And everybody, what, does everybody just go home?

What happens in that situation?

Is there an after-party?

I think he's probably taxied home and people have to feed him into a taxi.

Connor, that feels like something we're doing.

Are you you using your little sausage?

A little sauce nice.

Maybe I would have some drinks.

That's got to be a tough, that's a tough experience.

And then, you know, you get the camera over, you know, they keep panning to you.

And it was just Deion just had this grin on his face the whole time.

But you know, they're dying.

So Sanders is there if the Browns want to go grab a quarterback now, or maybe they do mark what we thought is possible, which is they build up the roster this year and then go get the quarterback next year.

And now you have an extra first-round pick.

So a lot, a lot to dig into on the Browns side of things.

And I don't want to be Browns heavy at the top of the show.

Well, that's too,

that train's left the station.

But I would say, like,

in theory, Jimmy Haslam is close with the Mannings.

I've always found that to be bizarre because, like, why attach yourself to the Haslams on any level?

But, like, in theory, the Browns want to wait till next year to get Arch Manning.

And so they've bypassed in this quarterback class.

Like, you don't risk.

Well, you need the number one overall pick potentially to get him, but there's no question.

No, well, you added a number one pick.

Like, to Connor's point, like, the trade that you made with the Jaguars puts you in pole position for the first time in more than half a decade as the Cleveland Browns to make a move in the draft.

So, either it's like you're just looking at forward and you're saying we're taking Joe Flacco and Kenny Pickett and fill in the blank to get us through a season, and we don't need to get the star special two-position player this year.

We just get guys that kind of are Cleveland football.

Or they surprise us.

I don't know, it's a surprise.

Or you go get Chador Sanders tomorrow.

But then, like, that feels to me like you're Deion, and this is just me being negative.

Like, the last place Deion Sanders wants his precious son to go is the Cleveland Browns that have made a cottage industry of like kind of wrecking quarterbacks.

So, like, I don't know what the selling point is for anyone there.

It could work out for Sanders where he ends up landing because usually if you're a high pick as a a quarterback, you're going to a bad team.

Maybe he ends up with a good team, and he steps into a spot.

But the Steelers passed on him, obviously.

The Giants went in a different direction.

I think the Giants are a big story here.

Conman, so let's talk about them.

They take Abdul Carter as expected, the Penn State star with the number three overall pick, and then they trade back into the first round, and they get Jackson Dart, the old missed quarterback, at 25.

They traded the number 34, the number 99, and the third-round pick next year with the Texans to move up nine spots.

So now he joins a room with Russell Wilson and Jameis Winston, and it's the same old Tommy DeVito.

Don't forget Tommy DeVito, yeah.

Poor Tommy Cutlitz, he ain't going to survive this one.

He's been a survivor.

He's been like a cockroach in an old Italian restaurant, but this time it's not going to work out for him.

But I'll say this.

The talk that you're hearing about, oh, the Giants have a plan.

And I like what the Giants did tonight.

So hear me out.

The Giants have a plan.

So now you have Russell Wilson and Jameis Winston, and you could redshirt Jackson Dart because he's still got a lot of developing to do.

Nah, bro, that guy is starting in a minimum of six and up to 10 games this year.

I guarantee it.

There will be no redshirting for Dart.

I think Wilson and Winston

by week eight probably both get their chances, and then the Giants fans will revolt if the kid doesn't get in the lineup.

So Dart's part of the program right now for the Giants, in my opinion.

I agree, and I'm curious what James's take is on this, but I think recently I've kind of heard, and again, this could be the Giants trying to push back on a narrative or soften a narrative, but this idea that even though we had to kind of come out with the statement to say that we're not firing the coach in the GM, that they aren't really on as hot of a seat for this coming year as we think they are, and that this is the kind of draft that solidifies that idea where it's like Jackson Dart is a very much developmental quarterback.

He was coveted specifically by Brian Dable, who we trust at the position.

And I think that for the first time ever, I'm kind of looking at this team now as sort of having a one or two year runway as opposed to like, these guys have to figure it out right now or everybody's ass is out the door.

Yeah, Connor, it's funny you brought that up because I was talking to somebody this afternoon and they were like, you know what I wish would have happened?

Maybe like a little two-year extension for Joe Shane and Brian Dable, just to kind of tell them that we are going to give them a little bit of patience here because this executive was like, I think the world of Brian Dable as a quarterback developer.

And obviously he has some pelts on the wall for doing that.

And so maybe we do see a little bit of a runway here, but they did so much work on all of these quarterbacks.

And oftentimes when people go, wow, they went to Boulder this time and this time and this time.

And by the way, I'm not sure what Jimmy Haslam thinks about all the miles he racked up on his plane.

I've never seen an owner go and see prospects the way he did.

And they didn't end up with either one of them in Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter, but he ate with them quite a bit during the year.

Didn't he do the same thing with Darnold Mark once upon a time and then he he ended up taking Mayfield?

Like they seemed to like throwing those curveballs just like more than any owner I know during this process.

Flights and dinner.

Like I think a lot of rich people would be down with those two concepts.

But I also think the thing we oftentimes forget is when you're doing this much work, it's usually to confirm something and it's not always to confirm yes.

It's usually to confirm sometimes no.

Like we're going to see him, we're going to see Shador Sanders over and over again because we want to make sure we're making the right call on passing him.

And that's kind of part of the thinking as well.

And I also wanted to bring up a point of jackson dart in this i went back and watched a video of myself from march 4th for underdog saying i think jackson dart's going to be the second quarterback taken i also said in that video four quarterbacks would go in the first round so i was wrong don't

we'll edit that second part out yeah and then i wanted to lop off the end because i said that at the end but i do think this is an example as players are continuing to participate less and less during this part of the process Jackson Dart benefited from participating in everything.

Like, he crushed the senior bowl.

He was the best quarterback there.

He competed competed and threw at the combine when so many quarterbacks don't.

And all these people were telling me, like, he really, I really want to go back and watch some more film after I saw him throw at the combine.

At his pro day, he was asking coaches what they wanted to see from him during his pro day.

I think when we're seeing with NIL money and all these guys competing less during this process, Jackson Darr benefited himself quite a bit by actually competing in every time he was asked to do it.

And that might have got him into the first round with Cam Ward.

It's kind of fascinating.

Very interesting.

Nobody liked that take, I think, because everybody's very quiet on it.

I'm ruminating on it.

I'd say mulling it over.

Mulling it over.

It's one of those situations.

Let's see.

Let's see.

Let's see.

Will Campbell goes fourth to the Patriots.

Chalky.

They get their left tackle.

We mentioned Mason Graham to the Browns.

Ashton Genty, okay, the running back

goes to the Raiders out of Boise State.

We're about to get into into that, but before we do,

it is NFL draft week.

But also, the NBA and NHL playoffs are ongoing.

Hey, Knicks

got a W today, and I didn't get a chance to watch it after we're through with this show.

I'm going to watch it on the old DVR.

Whoa, late night for you.

I like doing that.

Anyway, the best part about all this is you can win.

So O'Connor, it's going to be like three in the morning, and then he's going to tee up the Knicks game.

Sleep unnecessary

in Jersey tonight.

And the best part is you can win even if your team doesn't.

It's easy.

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All right, let's talk about Genti.

So the running back goes number six to the Raiders.

You like this one, Conman?

I like it a lot because, I mean, what the Raiders needed elsewhere kind of wasn't falling to them at that point.

And I kind of felt like the trade market for Gente was a little overblown.

I mean, by the time we got to the day before the draft, I was like, oh my God, people are going to try to get up to Ford again.

I'm, I never thought that was possible.

But I do agree that Gentee was probably one of the three best players in the draft.

But what the Raiders needed, I mean, okay, they need help at like interior offensive line, but you're not going to get that.

You need help at corner, but the need didn't really fit.

where they were sitting in wide receiver.

But you weren't going to take there either.

Wide receiver, you weren't going to take there either.

And so you have Chip Kelly, who had a lot of success at Ohio State last year with almost reverse engineering the way that he had always played at Oregon with this kind of time control, ball control offense that kind of zapped all the energy out of your opponents.

And why not try to do that at the NFL level now and take the greatest running back prospect that we've had in the last two or three years and put him on a team and make life easier for Geno Smith?

I mean, I think it's the closest thing that they could have made to an instant upgrade.

And the Raiders, you know, five months ago when football was happening, were a bowl of vanilla ice cream.

And now you've got like an offensive coordinator that you could say there's a concept of identity.

Head coach, there's a proof of identity.

A semi-owner that has a lot of identity.

You've got a quarterback that has some identity.

You've got a running back that could be rookie of the year very easily.

So it's like the Raiders have done a lot of, I think, progressive work in a short amount of time.

And this is kind of like a little bit of a a cherry on top type of draft pick for me.

Well, these type of picks are the ones that

look fun and they're fun to talk about.

And, you know, you know, oh, this team has so much to do, and they go get a running back.

Forget all that, though, right?

Because you know what?

This passes the mustard test for me, Palmer?

The old NFL Blitz mustard test.

Remember that great arcade game from the turn of the millennium?

Yep.

And it was kind of like a ripoff of NBA Jam, but for football.

And now you got a nice little NFL Blitz package on on offense.

Geno Smith, a very capable QB1, Ashton Genty, a running back with superstar upside, and Brock Bowers, who was an instant superstar at tight end.

We got some pieces, and you paid Max Crosby on the other side of the ball.

Obviously, this is a team of work in progress in a very difficult division.

But to your point, Mark, I feel like there's a plan here, and they're getting better and hopefully more fun to watch because that's part of what we try to get out of these drafts to make the boring teams more fun.

Yeah, and they added help on that defensive line the last couple of years, and it just hasn't been healthy to help out Max Crosby.

So you get Christian Wilkins back, you get, you know, your first round pick from a couple of years ago if you can get healthy, and you try to help out Max up front, and maybe that makes you a little bit better.

I did think there was still a chance they were going to go offensive line just because Colton Minter's getting older.

You could kind of get somebody inside and kick out later.

And maybe that's the way you build it first before the back, but I'm completely fine with this because.

Like, I was talking to a couple of offensive coordinators over the last couple of days where I'm like, hey, I'm hearing these Ashton Genty comparisons to like LaDanian Tomlinson.

And I'm like, come on, like, seriously?

And both of them were like, nah, man, he's that good.

Like, he's legitimately that good.

And then I had a former Super Bowl head coach text me this morning, Super Bowl winning head coach, text me this morning going, if you don't like Emmett Smith, don't draft Ashton Genty.

And I'm like, wow, we're getting some serious names thrown out here about Ashton Genty.

Well, I hope he doesn't hear this.

He's probably a regular heed the call listener.

But Ashton, that's high praise for you, and you got a lot to live up to.

Um, but the part that I do think is fascinating, real quick, there was somebody else who loved Travis Hunter in this draft, and I mean love, love, loved Travis Hunter.

And he was the one who likes to put out uh little clues about who he's taking in the first round.

I don't know if you guys follow Pete Carroll on that.

That's Pete Carroll, yeah.

Um, but Pete loved Travis, and there was some buzz a while ago about them trying to move up.

And I was thinking now, kind of like they had a real need at receiver and a real need at corner.

They actually needed both those positions really badly, actually.

Right.

Well, they also averaged 3.6 yards per rush last year of Vegas, and he joins a running back room, Connor, that has Raheem Mostert, you know, who kind of fell out of favor in the last couple of years, Zamir White, Sincere McCormick.

Sincere McCormick.

There's a name.

Dylan Laub.

These are the names that...

So it was an area of need

in addition to being maybe the best player on the board in terms of instant ability uh to transform an offense and i think like not to get too like lofty here or sound like the jaguars gm at this point but like you we need to stop thinking

we need to stop thinking about players like genti as running backs and players who can uh you're simply putting them on the field to force the defense to dictate you know make them do something that they don't want to do basically you know like kellum woore was calling them difference makers and i do think that there's something to that when he was talking about Genti earlier.

Good call.

All right, let's move on.

If you watch the live stream, and again, thank you.

We had over 2,000 people.

Let's go.

I was invited.

We're going to get to all the particulars of the back end of the live stream where we found out definitively whether or not, and no spoilers here, if you didn't watch the stream, and even James Palmer, like you might not know, but Ken Justin Dunk.

We'll talk about that at the end of the show because that's how we close this.

You might be able to guess the answer.

And thank you to Josh Hayden, Jay Gruden, Steve Smith from NFL Network Headquarters, which was a nice little

Jordan and Mike, who all jumped in on the stream, which was great.

I was pulling for Tyler Warren the tight end to go to the Jets, but understood that it was a very good chance that they would go tackle because they had a huge hole there.

They do go tackle Armand Membu.

You usually don't take a right tackle in the top 10, but I understand why they did it.

So they go tackle the Panthers.

They make a move and they take

Tet McMillan, the Arizona wide receiver, who Mark Steve Smith said on the stream, your buddy Steve Smith, James Parr.

Why wasn't I invited on the stream?

Like you had everybody on.

Because we were saving you for this, because this is arguably more important.

Okay.

Think of it that way.

I hope this gets way more than 2,000.

Don't view it through that lens.

We promise you he'll get way more than 2,000.

Agent 89 himself, future Hall of Famer, should be a Hall of Famer, Steve Smith, had Tet McMillan as his fifth best wide receiver.

We had Jay Gruden coach also on the stream at that time.

He had him as his number seven wide receiver, and yet

the

Panthers take Tet here, a Panthers team that obviously has major defensive holes as well.

So this was the first like, whoa,

after the number two pick trade.

Since I wasn't on the stream, I'll go.

I talked to Steve right after this pick.

Steve called me and he's like,

I was like so excited.

I was like, hello, because we've talked about pets so much.

And I'm like, hello.

He's like,

bro.

He just laughed.

He laughed when the stream started.

Yeah.

I was like, are you doing okay?

He's like, what the?

I mean, he wasn't a fan.

Obviously, he told you guys.

I won't tell you what what steve thought but i will say this he was the dream pick for the cowboys at 12 i'm told that's what dallas wanted to do at 12 but he was off the board um i think this is this is

borderline malpractice what they're doing to igero evero like

It's a really talented defensive coordinator that, to my understanding, is becoming very, very frustrated with this situation, who used to be in the conversation for future head coaching opportunities.

You have not heard his name

really sniff that that at all in recent years.

He interviewed for a job, not this past cycle, but the cycle before after the Panthers had the worst record in the NFL.

That shows you his reputation, Connor, right?

Of what the type of coach he is.

And he has no players.

Like Jada McCloudy was their only really edge presence right now.

They could have used a defensive tackle.

They missed out on Milton Williams, who they tried really desperately to get in free agency.

They could have went inside.

They could have went outside.

They could have went with versatile pieces that helped the way he coaches a defense.

And that part really makes me scratch my head.

But also, it makes me go, they must not be very happy with the receiving core right now.

I know for a fact that Xavier Legette has not lived up to what they thought he would be in his first year.

You bring back Adam Thielen.

I just think, yeah, you got to get a weapon for your quarterback, but there are some holes in the way Tet plays.

But I will tell you this: Dallas was, that was their dream pick at 12, I was told.

Yeah, so let's keep moving then.

So, another tight end comes off the board at 10, or the first tight end, Colston Loveland, to Michigan, out of Michigan, goes ahead of Tyler Warren.

That was, I think, a surprise to some.

Michael Williams out of Georgia goes to the Niners at 11, and then the Cowboys at 12.

Now, thwarted in their attempt to find that compliment to C.D.

Lamb at wide receiver, instead of pivoting to Golden or someone else in the wide receiver ranks, they go with a trench help, Tyler Booker at guard.

I have a weird comment.

Like, I have just learned to trust what Dallas does in the draft.

I know that

it's easy just to fling arrows at them left and right.

They're rambunctious.

They say too much.

They don't prove their point by the end of the season.

But their drafts year after year are pretty good.

Especially on the offensive line.

They have a proven track record.

When they do something that I don't expect,

and that shouldn't be that surprising,

I am willing to live with it.

So it's like, I'm kind of like, let's see what happens here, personally.

And we'll be checking in on Connor or the Mark Sessler mock draft, and we'll actually compare it to the Lance Zierline mock draft after a very, at times, tense

14th annual mock draft.

It was a tet a tet, I would say.

It really was.

So

Sessler mock draft.

We'll check in on that in a bit, too.

Can I chime in real quick on Dallas?

I just know, like, I mentioned the Tet McMillan was, or T-Mac, I think he prefers actually.

That that is your dream pick.

In all scenarios?

I think that's what he wants to do moving forward.

He's he's, hey, why no T-Bone?

Because Tim Watts.

What if I don't want to call him T-Bone?

Tim Watson.

I'm a Christian names only guy.

Yeah.

So

they wanted to move back out of 12.

It was either once T-Mac was off the board.

They wanted to move out of 12.

Once they couldn't move out of 12, my understanding is that Booker was the no-brainer.

And the thought that you guys are on to me is accurate because I was told, look at the defensive lines we face in the division.

And I was like, that's a pretty good point.

There's some really good interior players in this division in Philadelphia and in New York.

And so

that was kind of their play.

And I just feel like when Dallas is boring, they're actually better at this when they're boring.

Yeah, that's certainly fair

um at 13 uh the dolphins go with defensive line help kenneth grant out of michigan and then at 14 the colts go tyler warren uh out of penn state and connor i enjoyed this part of our live stream this this irked you this this was a pre-TNC Connor I thought was coming out a little bit because you thought the Colts shouldn't have been able to just fall into this guy that they needed at a position of need.

You thought they should have had to go up and get him.

And it bothered you that he was just sitting there for them.

Tell us why.

Well, I think on multiple levels, right?

Like if the Bears.

I'm still trying to figure it out.

So please.

I don't know why you're mad.

Like Chris Ballard's at least happy for a change for something.

Well, yeah, I mean, it worked out for him, but everybody knew that the Colts were going to take one of the two tight ends.

And I think that Tyler Warren was uniquely, just like Colson Loveland was better for the Bears because they already had Cole Komet.

I think Tyler Warren is more ideal for the Colts because of Daniel Jones and Anthony Richardson and some of the help their offensive line needs and how Tyler Warren can kind of fit all those things.

And if you're another team, I thought there were some teams behind the Colts that definitely could have used Tyler Warren as an upgrade, as an offensive weapon.

Why not at least test the waters a little bit?

You know, make the Colts sweat it out.

You know, I don't know.

I don't think we should just reward people for just sitting there and just lapping up a

potential Swiss Army knife weapon.

I don't think that's fair.

It's an interesting take.

Does it make sense?

Like there's been years where there's been an obvious need, a team in an obvious need fit, and then another team just flies in ahead of them and swoops the player out.

And then it's just a big middle finger.

And I think that's how we should draft.

We should be more aggressive.

But that happened.

That didn't happen to them last year, right?

Like

they wanted Bowers so bad, and I think he was taking two picks before them

last year.

So they got, you screwed me again, Penny Packer, last year.

They got kind of a weird, you know, they got a weird roster a little bit, like on offense specifically.

So they got some pieces at wide receiver, like Alec Pierce and Adona Mitchell and Michael Pittman and Josh Downs.

And then, of course, they have Jonathan Taylor.

Now you have Tyler Warren.

Then the quarterbacks are Anthony Richardson and Daniel Jones.

And usually when it's a highly touted tight end enters the league, you think, oh, he could be an instant producer.

It seems like he's entering a tricky spot there.

It'll be interesting to see how it all comes together and if he could find a role right out of the bat.

It's one of the most annoying things about covering, well, any sport, but especially football, is these dog day months we're about to enter where like Shane Steichen really believes he can do something with player X, Y, and Z.

And it's like, holy smokes, you're just like spinning yarn through my mind.

But like, I kind of think that Warren matched with Daniel Jones, matched with the running situation, matched with some of these weapons.

I kind of want to believe in it, but like, I feel like I've fallen for the Colts three or four times also.

So, you know, put me in Carbonite.

Shane did a pretty good job with Dallas Goddard when he was the OC in Philly.

That was a pretty successful year for Dallas, I'd say that.

Big year for Shane stanking.

All right.

Let's move on.

So then the Falcons are on the clock at 15, and they grab Jalen Walker, linebacker, out of Georgia, and that will be not the last time we hear from the Falcons.

I'll get to that in a bit.

The Cardinals get trench help with Walter Nolan out of Ole Miss at 17.

This one is interesting.

I think this is right when we jumped off the stream, Mark, and then I was checking, and I saw the very end of the Knicks game.

And so this one, I'm in real time catching up on this one.

So Shamar Stewart out of Texas AM, the Edge.

Interesting

because obviously you have the Trey Hendrickson drama unfolding.

They also, Sam Hubbard had retired, so they had a need there, but also now they have a little Hendrickson backup plan in Stewart.

So there you go.

They add to the defensive side of the ball after their splashy moves on offense this offseason.

My quick comment there would be like you like you, Lee Harvey Oswald did your last defensive coordinator.

I didn't think that was fair, but now you've got Al Golden.

So he did act alone.

Thank you.

Finally, you've come around on this, Mark.

Well, he was centered as someone who acted alone.

Well, you didn't say Lee Harvey and the guy in the knoll and the Russians and the mafia.

That's for a different show, probably a month from now.

But like, I would just say that

from what, like, like, looking into Stewart, or Shamar Stewart a little bit, like, it's like the physical traits seem dominant.

So, can you, can you become one of those guys?

Like, I kind of loved his on-stage interview.

That means nothing, of course.

That's like, that's, like, he's not, it's not, you know, a song and dance act, but, like, this is a large person.

They need a defense, and they needed, they do, I think they, like, like, I thought they were going to go either interior offensive line or offensive line or this.

And so I have no problem with this pick.

Perfect for the Bengals.

They need like eight defensive guys.

It felt like to an indictment less on, maybe not on Trey Hendrickson, but on Miles Murphy, who was their kind of their high-drafted edge.

And it's one of those things where I wonder if they're hoping that Trey Hendrickson comes back and that Stewart can be on the opposite side.

And then Murphy, if he comes around, that's great.

But if I think that was more of a sign, like, we can't wait for you anymore, bro.

Like, it's just not working out for us.

The Seahawks go and get Gray Zabel out of North Dakota State, a guard.

Another wide receiver comes off the board at 19.

Another team I trust.

I trust the Tampa Bay Bucks to go get a wide receiver because they have a great track record in recent years.

Amika Agbuka out of Ohio State with, of course, Mike Evans still an all-pro level guy, but entering, you know, edging into his mid-30s.

Chris Godwin, he's back, but he's coming off a serious injury.

They have a lot of weapons around Baker Mayfield.

The Denver Broncos take Texas corner, Jaday Barron, and then the Steelers at 21.

So

this would be what would be called a pressure point of the draft, Mark Sessler.

Yeah, an inflection point, a pressure point.

An inflection point.

That's what I've been looking for.

Big time.

Big time.

And everyone was thinking, is this where Shador Sanders comes off the board?

Is this where Jackson Dart comes comes off the board?

No, the Steelers stay pat.

And remember, the Steelers, Sestog, do not have a second-round pick.

So by making the decision to take Derek Harmon, the DT out of Oregon, they, for all intents and purposes, are Aaron Rodgers or Bust.

And I hope they have

a handshake that is sturdy as oak and not like the Jerry McGuire, Jerry O'Connell character, sturdy as oak, because otherwise they are up Schitt's Creek without a paddle.

I would ask James and Connor, like,

are you, because I know it's like all the media is just like, of course, Sanders is going to go at some point, maybe even number three.

It's like, that started to feel ridiculous.

But are you surprised the Steelers didn't

hit the button on that and say, we're going to roll with this and see what happens?

It feels like no one's surprised at this.

You know what?

Daniel Jeremiah on the NFL Network telecast made a great point right before the pick came in.

And, you know, it's hard for me to say that DJ made a great point, but he did.

He said that

the scouting report for Shador Sanders is remarkably similar to the scouting report of Kenny Pickett, taken in the same area of the first round a few years back.

They got on that merry-go-round and got off it very quickly.

And then it does not surprise me if they had a similar viewpoint as a player of Sanders to Pickett, that

they weren't interested in that that because they'd done that dance.

So that made a lot of sense to me why they would not be interested in a player with limited NFL level skills.

Let's be real about it.

I would say with limited elite traits, when you look at the guy who's got division, I mean, you look at you're going to be competing against Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson, and like you already went at that with a guy that had middle-of-the-road traits in Kenny Pickett.

You're right.

So that already kind of existed.

What I do think this is a little bit telling as, you know, Omar Khan says a day or two before the draft, we're going to have four quarterbacks going into the draft and they don't take one here.

They don't have a second round pick, like you said.

I know that conversations have continued between Mike Tomlin and Aaron Rodgers.

To me, this is probably maybe further down the road between those two parties and making

both of those parties are maybe more secure that that's going to happen than all of us after the Pat McAfee show the other day.

I don't want to talk to anybody, but I want to talk for a half-hour show.

So I think that probably plays into this a little bit as well, because I know there still have been a lot of constant conversations between Mike Tomlin and Aaron Rodgers.

Here's Rogers, by the way.

Just one point, one second, Connor.

Here's Rogers on the McAfee show talking about his uncertain future, or maybe it's certain.

Who knows?

Fing guy.

I'm open to anything and attached to nothing.

So

yeah, retirement still

could be a possibility.

But right now, now, my focus has been and has been and will continue to be in my personal life.

Well, my point was more related to Shadur.

I think it's just it represents like a massive failure of our industry where like all these people do all this great work and they unearth all these facts about someone and then we just willingly ignore them when it comes to the theater of this thing.

And now at the end of a draft, we're just like, oh, how shocking it is that this person slipped or fell.

And it's like, really?

Not a fly.

His peak upside, like the nicest thing that I've ever heard anyone say about him is that maybe one day he can be Teddy Bridgewater.

So, like, yeah, he shouldn't be taken in the first round.

And the fact that, you know, I had heard that the Steelers are more interested in Jalen Milro.

And I think that makes more sense for Pittsburgh.

He has more relatable NFL traits and a higher ceiling and an upside.

Like, I think all that makes sense.

And

I genuinely do feel sad for Shadura Sanders.

I really do.

And I know no one else is going to feel bad for him.

The little ego death for a Nepo baby is never a bad thing.

Right.

He's the millionaire son of a multi-millionaire, so cry for me.

But at the same time, we built this clapboard castle around this kid just so we could knock it down in primetime television.

The kid was, he was never going to go in the first round.

You could say that's a little bit of their camp's fault as well, Connor, and not just the media.

Sure.

Yeah.

It wasn't even a pro day for christ's sake it was what it was

it was a showcase all right add time mark i have my oh i have my credential i should have grabbed it

while james finds the credential yeah you find that credential

you know dan i i live up here in uh hollywood busy i'm aware yes yeah and so nice i've been to your place yeah like i don't have a long driveway like some like in my past i lived at places with like a long driveway with yep i've seen your other residences in the past as well yep mailboxes you put the little red thing up it I don't know what it means.

Known you for many years.

But like, you know,

in my own mailbox here in Hollywood, they say.

The largest credential ever.

There it is.

There's the shipment.

We'll go back to that.

I received

an incredible shipment.

I'm going to let you know from Vaya, our friend.

Oh, I was wondering where you're going with that.

What an incredible box.

Just a box filled with incredible treats.

It's got something for everyone.

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Yeah, just to cycle back to the Sanders thing real quick.

I feel for the kid.

Anybody that thinks they're going in the first round, and Aizen made a good point at the end of the telecast.

Like, at the beginning of the season, there was talk that he's a top 10 pick, a top five pick.

Whether that that was ever actually realistic,

maybe it wasn't.

But the fact that he was tied to Dion and there was so much hype around that program at Colorado,

it is a little bit of ego death.

But a man that had that much jewelry on with his own logo, sometimes I think it's not the worst thing to get a little reality check.

That's all.

In the same week, Shador Sanders had his number retired at Colorado.

That was not selected in the first round of the draft.

Yeah, the guys that won the national championship.

Cordell Stewart does not have his number retired there.

Yeah, we're like, wait, what?

Yeah.

These guys went like eight and five twice.

They finished 13-11.

13-11.

So they were

4-8 their first season.

Yeah.

All right, let's get back into it.

So after the Steelers go with Derek Harmon,

we get another running back.

And I thought this was kind of an interesting move.

In fact,

let's do a little two-hander here.

So the Chargers take another running back, Omarion Hampton out of North Carolina, a big bruiser between the tackles dude with some real talent.

Maybe not a home run hitter, but a guy who is going to be a great, great

Jim Harbaugh type dude.

You might remember they also have another former first-round pick in the backfield in Najee Harris that they got in free agency.

So there's quite an interesting one-two punch.

And you, Justin Herbert fans, who are still waiting for him to throw for 5,000 yards, don't hold your breath.

And a pick later,

the Green Bay Faithful there at Lambea go nuts when Matthew Golden out of UT comes off the board.

And that was a, I think, a very wise pick, James, for a team that has a lot of options at

wide receiver, but they're still looking for the dude.

Maybe Golden becomes that guy.

Yeah, I wrote down, first off, watching the draft, this was like one of the greatest moments of the draft, right?

Mark Murphy getting to go out there as he's going to retire, I think was an awesome moment as president and CEO of the Packers and being out there with all those fellow owners that are out there in the crowd.

And then they pick a wide receiver for the first time in an eternity.

Yeah, let's listen to that.

Let's listen to a little sound.

This is the coolest draft crowd they've had.

Yes, I like this job.

Nice work here.

With a 23rd pick in the 2025 NFL draft, the 13-time world champion, Green Bay Packers,

for the first time since 2002,

draft a wide receiver.

Matthew Golden, wide receiver texture.

105,000 people live in Green Bay, 250K.

We're at the draft.

And it is like a sneaky amount of pressure, right?

Like when you are the host city, taking like a flashy skill player is a lot of pressure to do that because you can't trade out of the round, although I think it's happened before.

And taking a guard is a little bit bummer, but you grab Golden and the crowd is going off.

So, the reason I love the crowd part of it, I love Golden in the draft process.

Obviously, on our show in 89, we'd focus on receivers so much.

This is a glue guy.

Most teams thought he was a high-volume two-guy, like a ton of volume two guy.

Can play inside and outside, can do a lot of different things.

He's faster, actually, in his 40 than he is on tape, but a lot of people believe he's actually going to tap into this speed and even beat more.

The reason I like talking about Matthew Golden and the Packers is I'm looking at the list right here, and we kind of jumped over

what Tampa did at 19 and what Denver did at 20.

And we talked about Amerion Hampton.

I'm looking at 19 with Tampa, 20 with the Broncos, 22 with the Chargers, and 23 with the Packers.

They didn't need these picks.

They just got better and deeper at these positions.

That's player available, baby.

And I think that's usually what good teams do.

I love Jason Light as a general manager, and Becca Abuka might be a great pick for them to add to a reason.

Connor's on this chat.

Let's be easy with the Jason Light positivity.

Okay, yeah.

Well, listen,

I think that's a good pick.

And then, you know, Barron is a big, like, they didn't think he'd fall to them at 20.

And now you have a defense that now has a potential to be the best in football after what they did with Telenoa, Hufunga, and Dre Greenlaw.

And they were already good before those free agent, you know.

And then you look at Hampton add to Najee Harris.

Like, these are all, I won't say luxury picks.

They just got better

collectively at certain positions.

I think Matthew Golden, you throw him into that group as well, and he might be their number one, which Josh Jacobs will get his wish.

They have about 14 wide receivers right now, so I enjoy the move.

Connor believes that the Mannings killed the Pope, by the way.

So you've got to dig into where Connor's coming from mentally on a lot of NFL topics.

I wasn't on the stream.

The Vikings, I'm telling you, this is where you want to be, though, JP.

This is where

the year and eyeballs are.

Yeah, I'm going to go.

Gear holes and eyeballs, baby.

I'm going to go to thinking about it, but I'm going to check the numbers consistently.

The Vikings take a guard.

This was surprising.

Donovan Jackson, a lot of people thought they would go secondary with that pick, but they

take a guard there.

So

that takes us to

the 25th overall pick.

And here come the New York Giants, as we said, trading up and taking Jackson Dart, the quarterback.

So he comes off the board, and we'll see if Dart can play the guitar.

But I do like, I got to give, and sometimes it's tempting, Ceci.

And I actually saw it on NFL Network and their little

post-game show back in the Englewood studio.

They were talking about who won the draft, and then two of the guys just named the teams that had, that picked twice.

And it's like, yeah, it kind of looks good when you just have two first-round picks over one.

But in this case, yeah, I think the Giants, in terms of where they need to go and a team that is bad as they were, have some pieces.

There's some pieces.

And now you add interesting, exciting moves on both sides of the ball.

To me, what is this for anyway?

Just to have fun and get excited about your team.

So there you go.

I like the Giants overall.

I give them a big thumbs up for you.

Connor, I love, because you're like a giant-centric, but it's like

part of the job in the offseason is to rebrand the operation.

And like, if you're a coaching staff in a front office under fire, you've kind of rebranded it and said, like, stick with us and we'll hang around here.

I don't know.

Like, someone tells us, will Jackson Dart save the...

Like, I know that social media giants handle will be like, we just found our quarterback.

Well, like, talk to me in 1200.

Yeah, I apologize for being cute, but it's a dart throw, but

it's worth the dart throw.

Maybe he does become Bo Nicks or whatever.

But I like this plan, Connor, much better than the old go-get 37-year-old Matt Stafford with 70,000 injuries playing in the swirling winds of the cold meadowlands without a great offensive line, or Aaron Rodgers after what we just saw with the Jets.

Like, this just functionally makes a little bit more sense to me, the direction they're in.

So that's kind of why I liked it.

And the one thing I think that I sort of skipped over or glossed over with the Carter pick, too, is that we keep forgetting that the Giants have an absolutely brutal schedule next year.

They get the AFC West and the NFC North as two of their divisions, right?

But what is one thing that can maybe survive those...

those two divisions in particular?

It's a good pass rush, right?

Because you have the Green Bay Packers.

Jordan Love does tend to drift and put himself into bad situations.

You have the Vikings who had to overhaul their offensive line and are starting essentially a rookie quarterback.

And, you know, some of these teams like the San Francisco 49ers, the Chiefs, they're going through offensive line rebuilds.

The Giants are now, at the very least, not out of these games, right?

And I think they're more relevant because of the strength of the pass rush.

I don't really care about Dart as an as a this coming year prospect, but I do think that they've given themselves survivability, which they didn't have, you know, three or four hours ago, whatever before this round started.

Well, or counterpoint, you're all fired by Yom Kippur.

Like, it's one of the two things occur here.

Okay, so the Falcons aren't done.

The Falcons

back into the first round,

acquiring the number 26 overall pick from the Rams.

You know, the Rams, Cesi, they do that whole setup in the firehouse, an active firehouse with a f ⁇ ing helicopter right behind Port Jordan.

you're going to trade out like panic attacks yeah and we're not even making picks i mean what are what are we even doing anyway anyway with that pick don't distract our military like that like how about let's start there as a nfl team like atlanta took edge rusher james pierce jr out of tennessee after earlier selecting linebacker jalen walker out of georgia with their original pick of 15.

now here's here's the thing here's the thing that I don't know, Connor.

Like,

to get the number 26 pick, and I give the Falcons credit.

They are shithouse drunk every draft night.

They, they always bring

something.

Their suit game is outstanding.

They dress well, and

everyone talks themselves into their moves.

But at the end of the day, they never do anything just normal.

It has to be totally bizarre.

Like, you give Kirk Cousins a trillion dollars, and then you take a quarterback, top 10, or you take a tight end, top five, or you do this, or you do that.

This year, they trade back into the first round.

Cool.

You gave up a first-round pick to get to 26.

Holy shit.

And by the way, I know we all like Pennex because he looked good in three games.

But what if Michael Pennex actually stinks and you just gave up your first round pick and it could end up being a lottery ticket?

What are we doing?

Maybe you've broken the curse of John Abraham and now you have two edge rushers that are going to go mall quarterbacks in the NFC South.

Or maybe you're just playing drunk and stupid again.

I don't get it, Connor, and you're shaking your head, and I like it.

I think it's James had used one of my favorite words, which is malpractice.

This is organizational malpractice because if you're Rich McKay or you're Arthur Blank, how do you allow a GM to spend a pick that he may not be there to spend?

It's much easier for a GM to say, f it, I'll spend the 2026 pick because I need these guys in 2025 so I don't get fired for building a bad fantasy football team that hasn't won more than eight games under my purview.

Like, that's the crazy thing about all this.

This was an eight-win team last year in the worst division in football.

They haven't gotten markedly better this offseason.

And you might hand the Rams a top 15 pick.

to get edge rushers that should have been the first thing that you did as a general manager to build.

But instead, you wasted all these picks on fantasy football players.

Like this is not a serious team it's not a serious organization and this pick you know this team is gonna get laughed at for the next calendar year and by the way they're also undersized guys they're both under they're 245 and

great at running stunts at running games like these defensive players are going to do interesting things but the infrastructure isn't there it doesn't make sense it's not going to work yeah it's been an interesting offseason what the hell is is even that?

Daddy, chill.

I have,

you know, talking to people down there, they've obviously

over the moon over Michael Penix.

What they've been doing right now

and what they feel like they can get out of Michael Pennix, they think is above and beyond what anybody else thinks.

But they also in their conversations were thinking there, and their conversations were saying, I think we've got to score 35 a game.

if we want to compete.

And that's leading into the draft because they knew how bad their defense was.

I got a text from somebody with another team that was just like, this is just 100% desperation.

And that's what this is right here.

What I find fascinating is this.

They were going to pick Pierce at 15.

They were hoping he was going to be there at 15.

He also has maybe some of the biggest character questions of anybody selected in the first round,

which the Toppins, I'm well aware of,

the Falcons are well aware of, and they believe they can handle, but they were going to take him at 15.

I find it very funny

that they don't take him at 15.

They take the hometown guy at 15 and Jalen Walker.

I watch the videos from the war room and you know who I don't see in any of the videos?

Uh-oh.

I don't see any of that.

Nobody went to his birthday party?

No, I don't see the defensive coordinator.

Oh.

Why don't I see the defensive coordinator celebrating in any of the things?

He hung himself.

Well, he just left the Jets, so he's probably in a good mood.

But, like,

oh, it's Ulbrick.

That's right.

So, Ulbric is their defensive coordinator.

So, what I'm just curious about is, like, did we pass on the guy at 15?

We took the hometown guy at 15.

All the fans are super happy.

Oh, crap, let's go back and get the guy we were originally going to pick, but now we have to give a first-round pick to get him.

Like, it just, the whole operation of it

just seems so discombobulated.

And I believe there's a lot.

I'll just say, I think this was an opportunity.

How am I going to get my sack back?

Not an opportunity.

I'll say this.

This might be one of the moments in the first round where the owner got involved.

I'll just say that.

Okay.

You know what?

Good fingerprints, detective work there.

They're always a little bit extra, and that could be some meddling.

Here's what

GM Terry Fontenew said afterwards.

Two of the best pass rushers in the SEC.

That's exciting.

Okay, let's hope it works, and let's hope.

Let's hope you didn't just hand over like the 10th overall pick to the Rams next year because everybody's going home if that's the case.

Let's finish out the rest of this first round and then do a little internal housekeeping.

Great work by everybody so far.

Let's bring this sucker home.

All right.

Da-da-da.

Here we go.

I mentioned Pierce.

Malachi Starks.

Safety goes to the Ravens.

Can I say one quick thing about that?

It's more verbal.

It's like, I understand, like, oh, that's the guy whose name I said.

And it's like, we gotta, yeah, have a nice time with your, with your pronunciation.

Mark lived with that for a couple of days.

You could see that.

Well, no, that's fine.

But, like, I was watching NFL Network.

Was Markai.

And it was like, they're talking, it's like, oh, we're going to add him to the defense.

Now, he could be like, we'll find out him and Kyle Hamilton.

It's like, they kept saying, like, he could be on top of the Christmas tree.

That's the new term for, I don't know if it's that new, but it's like for a safety that can be the bad.

It's like, he's on top of the Christmas tree.

It's like, I right now don't want anyone to say that ever again.

I am these, these phrases need to be taken away.

They are tedious, and I don't want to deal with it.

On top of the Christmas tree,

so like the final, like customarily the top of the Christmas tree is an ornament that's going to be.

And I think it's meant to, yeah, it's meant to mean like the final piece of a perfect, in this case, defense.

All right,

Malachi Starks.

Tyleek Williams, who you said, Mark, was very Lions-y.

We're going to get to your

mock in a moment.

He does go to the Lions at 28.

The Commanders take Josh Connerly Jr., tackle out of Oregon.

The Bills take Maxwell Hairston, Corner out of Kentucky.

And then here we are.

You could set a clock.

It will always happen.

The Eagles are on the clock.

And it's like in a fantasy draft, right?

Where one of the guys either has the time zone wrong or he's got to take his kid to the orthodontist and or he just he's drunk and he's he misses the draft.

So he's on auto draft.

And it's actually sneaky annoying because that means somebody that slipped down the board otherwise ends up getting scooped up by the robot.

That's what Howie Roseman does.

I give him credit for it because for many people, including Daniel Jeremiah as an example, Jihad Campbell was a number 12 on his board.

He's still sitting there at 31.

The Eagles tried to trade up earlier in the first round, couldn't get up there, sat back, and Jihad Campbell, wouldn't you know it, is still sitting there at 31.

Howie makes the play and gets another impact player out of Alabama.

They love their Alabama and Georgia studs.

So I bow down to Howie Roseman.

He's on auto draft, and sometimes auto draft works.

So I was talking to people in Philadelphia like a week before the draft, and I'm going, all right, how's this going to play?

And they're like, well, last year we went in pretty much knowing we wanted to go defensive back or tackle.

And obviously they hit it out of the park with Quinyan Mitchell and Cooper Desine at the top of the draft.

And they're like, this year we're pretty much wide open.

The only things we're probably not going to go after are quarterback, running back,

and I'd say linebacker, unless one falls, like one guy, unless he falls to us, we won't go there.

Well.

There they go.

And they did trade up one spot with the Chiefs to get into position, but they didn't have to give up much to do it.

I think a fifth round pick.

No, it didn't take much.

And how Howie's got all these picks.

He's got 20 over these two-bit drafts, so he had a lot to play with.

The thing that I would say is, and this is why Howie is good at this as well, is they have a luxury to not even really play him much this year.

They can let him get healthy.

He might start the season on Pup or start camp on Pup with the shoulder.

He has a lot of medical.

I texted people there

when they made the pick and they said the medical does check out for us.

It's both shoulders, I think, in a knee.

Talent-wise, he's outstanding.

He doesn't need to play right away.

When you have a complete roster, you can take these chances in the first round round that other teams don't have the luxury to take.

They're loaded.

They're loaded.

Why are we even watching next season?

I forget where this is going.

Sports is funny like that, though.

We'll see.

But the roster just got even better.

And the only thing about it that it's not predictable.

It's so predictable now that it's not even surprising when it happens.

The final pick, as we said, the Chiefs move back one spot.

They get more tackle help.

They obviously need to fix their offensive line after what the Eagles did to them in the Super Bowl.

They take Josh Simmons.

Yeah.

I think that pick is enormous, honestly.

I don't want to be the guy who talks too much, but I just want to say, like, I talked to a couple of teams that said that was the best tape of any tackle in this draft, and it may not have been close.

In terms of athleticism, in terms of his ability to move on the outside, his tape was awesome.

He's got some maturity things that some teams were like

about, but you can't get good quality tackles in this part of the first round.

So if this hits, it's kind of similar to how they hit on like Trey Smith when everybody passed on Trey Smith because of like the, I think it was the blood clots in the lungs or whatever it was.

I like that I just kind of like, it was like the blood clots in the lungs or whatever.

Yeah.

But yeah,

it ended up not being a problem.

And he's one of the best guards in football.

If this hits, this is enormous because they're never picking at the top of the draft to take tackles in the top

round.

Right, James, like

Howie Roseman, with good reason, sucks up a lot of the oxygen when we're talking about the genius GMs.

Brett Veach,

a pretty damn good track record.

The reason why they keep going to Super Bowls is the way they're able to build around

the all-time quarterback in Mahomes.

And,

you know, Jeremiah said that he thinks he's the most talented offensive lineman in this draft.

Big time.

And there are reasons, like, as you're alluding to, that he didn't go higher.

But if you trust, we talked about kind of tying this all together.

Do we trust the Jacksonville Jaguars or the Cleveland Browns or whatever to take advantage of a transcendent talent or a prospect

at the top of the draft in the back end?

I trust the Chiefs to make the most of a talented but troubled prospect potentially here.

And Simmons, all right.

I would just note that I have blood clots and maturity issues.

And like,

I'm still right here.

Right.

You're definitely still on the board going into day two.

And you have your own show.

Yeah, exactly.

What are those socks?

The tight socks?

Oh, compression socks.

And then, like, I don't know.

You haven't lived until you saw Ceci in compression socks.

Well, no, but then you get the...

The problem is they show up.

I'll keep this short, but they show up on the x-ray machine.

And so, especially if you go international, yes, like I had to pull down my

pantalones to show them my compression socks.

It was like two German men with

feelers.

and it was just like

why why was i born you know so the only thing i asked for my birthday

the only thing i asked for mark for for a birthday is him like wearing a pair of bermuda shorts with his sanitary socks on that's all i want sanitized sanitary socks it's to keep your compression socks are yeah not

sanitary socks well actually

hey let's let's celebrate mark let's do it yeah let's check out the uh his mock draft uh now that round one's in the book.

Seven, correct.

Good job.

You nailed Cam Ward.

You got Abdul Carter.

You got Genti to the Raiders.

You got Membu to the Jets.

You got Tyler Warren to the Colts.

You got Tyleek Williams, who was Lions-y.

So, yeah, yeah, he goes to the Lions.

Maxwell Harrison, you got him as well to the Bills.

Lance, who is quite dismissive of you and always has been.

Yeah.

Five correct.

Oh,

seven beats five.

And a rivalry is born.

I deeply respect Lance and his method.

And I just, it's like I came from the sun.

And so something else will occur when I,

it doesn't matter what industry you're in.

I think I operate differently than Lance, and I love Lance, but just anyone that thinks it sets the table well for Lance's appearance next year, put it that way, because I don't think he can have Connor the same attitude he had in 25 when Sessler's dropping a seven hyphen five on his ass.

And the crazy thing is, so Mark passed up the chalky Will Campbell selection to go Kelvin Banks, which impressed Lance because Banks was certainly one of those names that wasn't talked a lot about.

If he had gone chalky there, like he's almost doubling Lance's score.

You know what I mean?

And I think this is wildly impressive.

I think there are names

in the back end of that draft that weren't in a lot of mock drafts.

I'm over the moon about this for Mark.

I had said one of the greatest mock drafts of all time.

I set the table for Marks by saying that Paul Zimmerman, I think, got 11 correct.

13, I think was the number.

Or 13.

I mean,

you almost got eight.

I mean, this is not that far away.

And this is a legendary performance.

Wait, what is this?

What is Gravedigger just built his own board?

This isn't a real f ⁇ ing thing.

Take this down.

No, Justin, did you?

I tweeted this mock out from the Heed the Call account before.

Well, I think it was Wednesday morning.

Maybe it was Wednesday.

Wait a second.

Time out.

This is Dan.

When I speak about organizational problems within our production, like this is.

Mark, I want you to know

about almost everything

that is going to come up on the show in terms of boards and videos.

This I had no knowledge of, prior knowledge of.

You dropped seven, and then Gravedegger builds out his own board to point out that he picked eight.

Yeah,

it's an incredible

It's an incredible moment in time.

This is the dunk.

I'm dunking right now with my mic

transition.

I like no, but hold on.

I like that you that you waited for Connor's entire like

Like just blow session on Mark of just how happy you were for well he allowed

you're like check this out here's Justin allowed me roughly 17 seconds to enjoy planet Earth and then he's like look at me I'm from Gen X like Gen Z like whatever.

Well, okay, but the other point I wanted to make real quick before we get to, Justin, that was tremendous.

Lance, we all know Lance well.

I used to go on Lance's radio show in Houston all the time when I lived there.

We all know the breakdowns that he does and the times that he spends.

He breaks down like 300 players for NFL.com.

He spends months and months.

Yes.

Like, who feels worse tonight?

Lance or Shador Sanders?

That's a fair question.

We're going to reach out.

We're going to reach out to Lance for comments.

Who's more of like, why do I do this?

Is it Lance or is it Shador?

Let's give Justin a little bit of grace, Mark, because we're going to end this show

by

showing, if you weren't able to check out the live stream, at the end of the stream, as promised, and much respect to Gravy, he did agree to the dunk contest.

Can Justin dunk?

And as you're watching now, this was the little hype video that we put out leading into Thursday night.

But eventually came time to actually attempt the dunk.

His fiancé,

the wonderful Jessica, drives him to the local gym.

And Justin has,

my count was about five attempts.

On a bike.

They run a double.

He sits on the back of a small bicycle that she's on.

He was on the pegs.

I like a double bicycle.

I like pegs.

I also like the little, like, the motorcycle with the sidecar.

I like that idea.

Like in Indiana, you gotta fit his little body into that.

Let's go to a dunk contest.

So here we go.

Little leather helmet and gobbles.

Here we go.

Justin Graver, once and for all, after months of hype and a claim that he could indeed dunk, we said he cannot dunk.

Here are the results.

And if you're not, if you're only listening to the show, check out YouTube.

Here we go.

0 for one.

He got up there, rattled around.

It's right there.

Drops in.

Oh.

Number two, he gets up.

By the way, bonus points at the gym here, these random bros just like sitting around, like, what the f is this guy doing?

I give him credit for him.

0 for 2.

A third attempt is just an absolute disaster.

He almost agors himself.

All right.

Now attempt four.

He gets up.

He gets up.

Oh, he grabs the rim, but the ball floats out of his hand.

These guys are the midflips behind the basket.

O for four.

And that was it.

That's when he quit, or he was kicked out of the gym.

Was this engraver?

Cannot dunk.

It's official.

Justin,

Justin.

Do you have comments?

I want to say, I still, in my heart of hearts, think I can dunk.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're a 33-year-old man in your athletic decline who vapes all day.

There's a reason why you can't dunk.

Now, to your credit, you look athletic.

You're fit.

You can grab the rim, which is more than I could ever do or probably anyone else here.

You cannot dunk.

And I did reach out to comment to your lovely fiancé, Jessica, because I wondered what this impact could be on your relationship if it changes how she views you.

Let's play that.

Hi, Dan.

So

I heard that Mark said that somehow, after what I witnessed, I wouldn't feel the same way.

And what can I say?

I just like white men that can't dunk.

And is that a problem?

Can any of you dunk?

Probably not, right?

I mean, can you?

You're kind of old.

So yeah, I stand with all of the white men that can't dunk.

That's my type.

And I love it.

Bye.

What a brave stance, standing with all the white men who can't dunk.

Of which there are many of us.

Can I offer one second?

I will say my last thing.

Like, Justin, who just attempted to flame my existence about four minutes ago, I actually thought you were athletic.

It took some cohones to attempt to keep doing what you were doing with these dudes just sort sort of sitting yeah like it's like i'd be like i don't really want to do it's like i give you a lot of credit for that um

i don't buy what she's saying i think you need to work deeper on that part of it like i think

well just the public message tonight it's like she's going to be processing this in layers layers it's kind of like it's kind of like the browns passing on the the unicorn of the draft like yes there's an initial reaction there it's what is it the seven stages of grief or whatever i think in both cases or five five stages of grief You're both in the first stage, right?

We're a long way from acceptance.

Yeah, and do you think also that like it was mentioned earlier by Mark Gravedigger like do you think a discrete package might need to arrive at the house To keep things fresh?

No.

Oh

I Will just say about my attempts the first one I think was the closest and if I think the first time you didn't dunk is Justin can't dunk he was already out of he got out of energy after the first the first one was the closest because you vaped between dunks.

Just didn't quite push the ball down enough, but I was high enough

in terms of

jumped in terms of

Panama Red.

The last attempt, I think I would have gotten that one through if I hadn't rubbed my hand raw on the rim on the first

future.

It's getting too, it's getting too much.

I definitely got high enough on the last one, but the ball slipped out of my hand.

So I admit I did that.

Nobody wants to hear that, I'm not going to say I did dunk it, Did you think with like a little bit of a...

With all due respect, nobody wants to hear that.

You were like a reverse Sylvia Plath.

You need to shut it down verbally.

Did you?

You should have tried

the self-alley oop, the throw it, and if it bounces perfect, all you got to do is tap it in and grab the rim.

The self-alleyoop.

That's what you should have went with.

Or the LeBron James, go to the scorers table and chalk up your hands and throw it up in the air.

I'm sure that would have been really cool in front of all those guys, too.

Maybe you would have grabbed the rim and held on to it then.

Yeah.

And your hand wouldn't be so raw.

All right.

Well, Justin, I'll tell you what.

Thank you again.

It was good content and you're always a good sport.

And you got a wonderful fiancé who's standing by your side.

So that's good.

And you have the number one overall pick in the draft now and in Cam Ward.

So it was a bittersweet,

topsy-turvy Thursday night for you.

And I hope you could sleep tonight.

I hope you're just not staring at the ceiling.

Well, I'll be staring at my laptop editing this podcast for like the next five hours.

So that'll be fun.

It keeps getting better.

All right.

Good stuff.

Thank you to everybody.

If you checked out the live stream and now you've finished listening or watching this show, you are the best.

That's why you're a hedonist.

You're a sick freak and we love it.

Thank you to James Palmer.

Thank you, buddy.

You've said it all.

Thank you.

Thank you to Connor Orr, who is up in the middle of the night in central New Jersey, and we love that man for so many reasons.

Thank you to Josh Hayden, Jake Rudin, Steve Smith, Jordan, and Mike.

Thank you to Gravy for all the production work.

Thank you to everybody at Underdog for helping us make this show go.

We just got nominated by, what was it, Synopsis?

What was that?

Yes,

yes, a best new podcast, sports podcast category.

And that is very, very nice to hear.

And it's all possible for because of you people, you people watching and listening to the show.

So thank you for your support, and we'll be back Saturday night to recap all of the draft.

Until then, do what you must.

Justin can't dunk, heed the call.

Nationwide is so much more than a great insurance company.

They're one of America's largest financial services companies.

Like, how am I more than Saquon Barkley, the NFL's reigning leading rusher?

I'm also the NFL's leading husher.

Hush up back there.

Wow.

I might have just set the hushing record.

Well, almost.

For your insurance and financial needs, Nationwide is on your side.

Nationwide Investment Services Corporation, Ember Finrick, Columbus, Ohio.