The 14th Annual Mock Sessler Marc Draft

All right, before we get to the 14th annual Mox Sessler Mark draft, we just want to remind you that coming up Thursday, April 24th, the first round of the NFL draft, we will be live heed the call on YouTube, a live stream of the first 10 picks.

Me, Mark, Justin, a bunch of guests, and it's going to be incredible.

Sess Dog live stream draft heed the call on fire.

It's just like another example of like, we're just going to do what we want to do with each one of these 10 pole events or some special surprise guests.

It's going to move.

It's going to be exciting, Dan.

And don't forget, not only are we going to be breaking down the picks, Justin will be attempting to dunk at the end of the live stream.

So make sure you're there at 8 p.m.

Eastern, 5 Pacific.

It is the NFL draft live with Heed the Call.

All right, let's get to the mock draft.

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Hello, friends, and welcome to the 14th annual Mock Sessler Mark Draft.

I'm not Jim Nance, and now here are your hosts, Dan Hansis and Connor Orr.

Love you guys.

Unbelievable.

Love you too, Jim Nance.

Yes, Dan Hansis here with Connor Orr, and it's really one of the most wonderful times of the year.

The 12th annual

Mock Sessler Mark Draft.

And Connor, you could feel it.

The tension from coast to coast right now,

really so much on the line, it feels like.

There's no question.

About four years ago at Sports Illustrated, I did a story on what was then considered the greatest mock draft in the history of mock drafts.

Paul Zimmerman, Dr.

Z,

11 of the first 13 picks right, including a trade.

And it was so accurate that it was mentioned at the eulogy of his funeral.

And

I think about that on a day like today,

And I think that my friend Mark could do something of that magnitude.

I really, I know the way he works.

I know the way he thinks, and I believe in him in a real way.

You know, that's really well said.

And I don't know if you're saying that because Mark is probably statistically the closest to his eulogy, that it would, it would be something that would line up.

But at the same time, Mark's also put in a lot of work.

I know that.

I know that for a fact.

In fact, there was a text chain that landed over the weekend that Mark made an allusion to.

I'll be working right through Easter Sunday, late into the night, because he knows

what's at stake here.

And really, not just for him, but for us and our show.

And we've done this before, and this is the first time on Heed the Call.

And it makes it even more important that Mark knocks this one out of the park because I think if there's a theme here, Connor,

if there was a three-word phrase that really put a button on what's going on right now, aching for legitimacy.

And that is where we need Mark Sessler.

And without further ado, why don't we welcome in the man of the hour, the man that will go pick for pick through the round, Mark Sessler.

Hi, Mark.

What a pleasure to be here.

And I see what's happening a little bit, and I appreciate the genuine reverence around the entire project.

But when we mention, you know, Dr.

Z nailing 11 out of 13, it's a little bit of a reverse table setting.

but what I like, though, is that Connor is sort of saying, like, total confidence,

we're going to enact this project in a very proper way, as no one would doubt.

And failure to do so would only just affect us and our children and

stuff like that.

Yeah, no big deal.

No big deal.

And, you know, there's the other part of this as we look to further

establish Heed the Call as a major brand in the professional football coverage world.

An article that came out just this week in The Athletic by Joseph Person and Mike Jones headlined: Do teams pay attention to NFL media mock drafts?

Maybe more than you'd expect.

And this data point from that article, in polling front office members across the league, The Athletic found that 15 of 18 teams utilize mock drafts in varying degrees in their pre-draft process.

One NFC general manager believes every team uses them to some extent and speculated that teams that say they don't are probably lying.

Furthermore, several GMs, including Seattle's John Schneider and the Rams Les Sneed and Carolina's Dan Morgan, said their analytics departments monitor media mock drafts in putting them into in-depth databases that help the monitoring of trends.

These officials then produce a report from those findings and relay them to the front office as another source of information.

So, Connor, like what we're trying to do here, hopefully, is Mark's mock, mock's mark, becomes one of these

essential pieces of data for the teams.

We become part of the process.

Yeah.

A great mock draft, someone once told me, is like a mosaic of stained glass, like in an old Catholic church, right?

Because it's all these little tiny pieces and nuggets of information that come together to form this incredible tapestry, but it's so fragile at the same time.

And again,

I think Mark is certainly up to the challenge.

And, you know, one of the people mentioned early on in that article is Jason Light, the Bucks GM, who Connor's gotten on his radar for very different reasons.

I've gotten on his radar.

So you would imagine that the eyeballs will be hovering over a day like today.

Unbelievable.

Eyeballs will be hovering.

Two eyeballs in particular, and a man that,

you know, had some critical things to say a year ago in this very same exercise.

And perhaps it's time to welcome him because if we are going to be succeeding in our goal, our ache for legitimacy, we must gain legitimacy in the eyes of the people that we respect the most in this draft prognostication world.

And there are very few people that are in the class of this man.

Let us welcome now

NFL draft analyst Lance Zierline.

Hey, Lance.

Hi, friends.

Hi, Lance.

You know,

you're back this year.

And Mark, obviously, we all, in a way,

want to

make sure this mock draft is something that does well and looks well for Heath the Call.

And we just hope that you can give us the honesty that you're known for here.

I'm going to be honest.

I mean, he's stepping on my turf.

So,

you know, legitimacy is important for all of us.

And,

you know, it's like if they let me go,

you know, play five minutes in an NBA playoff game.

Is it really a legitimate sport, you know, that you have to ask that?

I think it's kind of the similar here in this vein that if they just let anybody mock, so it's got to be legitimate.

It's got to make some sense to me.

You made it,

I would say, crystal clear how you felt about my process a year ago.

So I've, you know, I've taken that.

I think about that and I've tried to continue to improve and grow.

And I certainly with incredible respect for you.

Yeah, it was meant with love.

Like it wasn't, I know I it's kind of disconnected abruptly, but I didn't want to say something I regretted that either one of us would regret.

So Mark thought it was small.

Yeah, last year I believe I likened it to someone going up to the sixth floor of a book depository and getting some shots off with deadly accuracy.

So we'll see if it happens again.

Mark, without further ado, it is time now for your mock draft and let's start at the top of the draft.

I don't think there should be any surprise here.

No, when you're trying to, you know, part of this is you're trying to collect victories out of the gate and outside of the gunshots being fired in my direction, the Tennessee Titans, This will surprise no one, are going to take quarterback Cam Ward out of Miami.

And for some reason, that didn't didn't happen.

I think we have a nuclear meltdown right at the top of the draft.

This is happening.

Yeah, this is as certain as it gets, Lance.

You don't need to be a maca to nail this one, right?

I'm fine with this.

All right, let's move to pick two, and this is one that I know, Mark, is near and dear to you as a Cleveland Browns supporter.

Is this going, Chalk, as well?

I am going with what I've heard overwhelmingly.

We all have.

I think a month ago, this was like the huge turning point, but the Cleveland Browns

take Travis Hunter, wide receiver and cornerback out of Colorado.

And I think it's the most exciting, marketable player in the draft from a certain point of view.

And the Browns could use that.

Yeah, I'm fine with it.

I mean,

Travis Hunter is probably the favorite right now, but I'd personally go Abdul Hunter, but Travis, I mean Abdul Carter, but I think Travis.

So far, I'm fine with it.

It's going to be hard to screw up one through three.

All right.

With that said, let's get to pick three.

Well,

maybe maybe we do differ here, but I'm going Abdul Carter out of Penn State, the edge, for the New York Giants, because I, you know, this whole business about maybe you trade Kayvon Thibodeau at some point,

I think that Abdul Carter comes in and fills a need for the Giants right away.

If they're not going quarterback, I don't think they are.

No,

I don't think they are either.

And if you're not, you have to go Abdul Carter.

And I wouldn't go.

I wouldn't go any of these quarterbacks over Abdul Carter, not after Ward's off the board.

So, yeah, this is the only pick here.

All right.

So, so far, Mark, and this is the easy part.

You're in good position.

It seems.

I think this is where we say goodbye to Lance.

Just say this one very well, and we'll see you next year.

Unfortunately, we can't do that.

We need to.

Let's see.

I've noticed there's been a lot of groupthink going on so far at the mock.

So I'm guessing that your one through seven, one through eight is going to be pretty

pretty according to Hoyle.

Ooh, okay.

That seems like a minor.

Yeah, go ahead, Mark.

Kick four.

Well, here's one where I filed my mock, and then I'm hearing new information that has disturbed me to some degree.

But Patriots,

you could go with the, you could go, Jen, to hear, but I think they're going to go offensive tackle.

People are talking about Will Campbell, but I'm going Kelvin Banks out of Texas.

This may be where we form a line of departure, Lance.

No, I'm actually okay with it.

I think that I don't think there's any given, I do think it's left tackle.

They have to have a left tackle.

And I think it's between Will Campbell and Kelvin Banks.

I mean, you're wrong on it.

It will be Will Campbell, but

I don't mind you stepping out and saying, hey, what about Kelvin Banks?

I think that's a legitimate question that you're asking.

It's not, it won't be him, but

I don't hate the thought here.

How about that when it comes to the mock world?

I mean, he's trying to just mix it up a little bit.

Do you respect that or do you think he's cutting off his nose despite his face?

I'm just going to follow what everyone tells me, and that just means he's doing it for clicks.

It's not even a published article.

Okay, pick number five.

I like this guy out of Michigan, Mason Graham defensive line.

And that's where I'm going here.

I think that the Harbaugh products in Michigan, there's a couple of them in this draft, seem to be a good bet.

And I think if if you're the Jaguars, like you've got different needs, but for me, it's defense.

Yeah,

I'm fine with that.

It makes the most sense here.

He's going here in most of the mocks.

The new one is Genty to five.

That's kind of the new

hot ticket is Genty there, but I think Mason Graham makes a lot of sense here.

Don't you think though that that's an example of we get to that point every year where I remember a few years ago, right, it was like, oh, Ed Oliver can go number two now.

And like we get to this point where we become so obsessed with something that

we drive it up the board.

Do you think that the Genti thing is legitimate or do you think that this is one of those things where we've talked ourselves dry and we're starting to just lose the bid a little bit?

Well, it could be, but for me, it's more like it's never felt quite right that I had Genti going 10 to the Bears at one point.

I had my first mock item 7 to the Jets.

And let me tell you,

Jets fans were excited about getting a running back.

Let me tell you.

I remember that.

Yeah, they were real happy with that.

Then I went to...

The Jets fans are never happy, though, in fairness.

No, they're not.

And then I went to Ashton Gente.

I don't know.

Maybe Bears at 10.

But the more I think about it, he's the best player in the draft,

at least top three, maybe in the entire draft.

And so

you just start thinking, aren't other teams going to recognize that they can draft players who aren't as good as Genti or they can get the guy that they're going to have really high on their board because they're going to have Ashton Gentee really high on their board.

It's just a matter of philosophically, are you willing to maybe alter what you have previously thought about drafting running backs

in the top five, top 10?

But I think it's really more a matter of

people are starting to maybe think, hey, what about just the best player on the board here?

What about BPA for a team that stinks?

I mean, what is Jacksonville not drafting in the top five picks?

They're always drafting in the top five.

Just get a good player.

Well, I got an answer for you.

How about the Raiders?

Take Ashton Genty next.

They were arguably the worst backfield in the league a year ago.

You've got Chip Kelly in there and Pete Carroll.

You were led by Alexander Madison and Amir Abdullah a season ago.

I think neither one of them crossed like 350 yards on the year.

You change everything.

I think the Raiders, I've killed them year after year, but like you've improved the coaching situation.

You've got a spicy situation at OC.

There's a little bit of work to do under center but genti can make that offense um 10 times more interesting than they were a year ago and it's to me it's an easy pick best player available yeah easy pick here i mean it's what everyone's doing so why not you too

geez mark i mean one thing i want to say just mark in in fairness that we want to be able to somehow hit this

in a way that separates us in the pack.

And if this is just going to be chalky all the way through, I mean, we're not going to be able to do that.

Can I make the picks for him?

Here,

next up, we're going to go Armand Membo from the Missouri Tigers.

Well, he's right.

What a surprise.

He's right.

Look, in years past, I went like LSD Trip Avenue on this, and then it's like you're getting destroyed

verbally and non-verbally by Jalen.

Let's get

this right.

So let's see if Lance can get us the Panthers pick that Mark's giving us.

I mean, I'd hate to think that he went with Jalen Walker here with the Panthers taking Jalen Walker.

Oh, no.

I did, but you've seen the list or something.

No.

And the next one is perhaps the most obvious.

All right, let's see if we can make it a hat-trick.

Saints at nine.

I can assure you, by the way, that Lance has not seen the list.

Lance has been up since 5 a.m.

doing his radio show and then 400 shows on NFL Network.

In cahoots, though, in cahoots.

I got to figure out where you're going to put

Will Campbell.

So the Saints have usually had defensive ends ends plugged in there.

They've had Mike Hel Williams, Shamar Stewart plugged in there.

I'm going to go Mike Hill Williams.

Okay, Will, incorrect, although perhaps you will be in reality, but this is where I'm putting Shadore Sanders.

And you've got a new head coach.

Derek Carr is annoyed.

They're annoyed with him.

And you've got some weapons on offense.

I think it's kind of, for me, like wherever Sanders goes, it can't be like an eternal

trash bag.

Like I'd say Cleveland would be a prominent place.

But the Saints and that whole, like, the whole Saints culture, I kind of like the Sanders family having to dip into that and they could use a quarterback.

We'll find out if he's overdrafted in general.

Yeah, I should have thought about it longer because I would have come up with that for you.

They're going to keep hitting singles here.

We really need a defensive end, and that's why I was like, I was thinking what a draft guy would think, but that's, no, that's fine.

That's fine.

We're fine.

No.

No, that's good.

Mark and I need to have some differences here.

That's all.

All right.

Let's close out the top 10, Sassy.

Okay.

The Chicago Bears, if Genty does not land here, and I'd think they would want it.

Will Campbell.

It is Will Campbell.

And then the offensive tackle.

Well, you know, some of this is just like, like, it kind of made, this, to me, is a pretty kind of meat and potatoesy type draft.

And like, some of these teams just seem like they need these guys at these positions.

So it's funny.

I can predict this because

most of the people are coming in with the same stuff because it's just kind of obvious.

Like it's, that's why I didn't have to see the list.

It's just most of the lists are coming in there and it's hard to deviate.

I don't think Sanders goes nine, but it's hard to deviate because there's so few really good players.

Like there's so few players who deserve a spot in the one through six, you know, pick range that I think that it's, it's, we've all kind of run into the same players in the same spots, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be wrong.

I've seen drafts where

nine of the first 10 picks were kind of what you thought they were going to be.

So

Will Campbell wasn't hard.

I mean, the Bears need a left tackle.

You had Will Campbell left over.

We're just doing, we got three tackles.

You're going to either put them, you're going to put them at four, seven, and 10.

It's just a matter of how you split them up.

That's, I mean, it's not, you know, it's now.

It may not work that way, though.

You may have somebody surprise you.

I will tell you that the

Jets Jets could surprise you and go Will Campbell and move him to the right side.

So that's something you have to look for.

I think Tyler Warren's in play over there.

Jade Baron, like they, there's some, remember that Brian Branch was a cornerback for Aaron Glenn over with

the Detroit Lions.

And Jade Baron does some of the same stuff that

Brian Branch did in college, plays multiple positions, very versatile.

So I could see Aaron Glenn falling in love with a player like that.

So

it'll be, it's interesting, but it's not that unusual that all the same players, I mean, the only one that you've kicked out of the 10, like Shadur in there,

there's one player missing.

I don't know, maybe Tyler Warren is missing.

I feel like there's one player missing that's usually in there, but I think it's probably the actually the wild card is the Saints because I don't know what the Saints are going to do.

So that's actually the wild card pick.

The rest of them are exactly what pretty much all of us have, including me.

And you had Lance in your latest mock draft, which you could check out on NFL.com.

Jihad Campbellee, linebacker out of Alabama as an example.

So there's a yeah, I didn't love that, but I just thought he fits what Staley likes to do defensively with the Saints.

And

he won't be on my next one that's due on Thursday.

Well, it's a good thing that we got this out of the way so you can take a look at what's been done here and perhaps

react off of it.

So you don't.

I take it all information sources.

I do, Ses.

You do have a first round

in your most recent one, as of right now, as we record this.

You do have Sanders going in the first round.

But do you see him in

that kind of high-end backup or,

you know, top 20, end of the top 20 starter type guy?

Is that his ceiling to you?

No, I think the ceiling is.

Oh, you mean who he becomes or where he's drafted?

Yeah, like, what do you think?

Like, what is the best version?

Who is the best case comp for him?

Yeah, above average starter.

I think

Geno Smith is a pretty good comp.

I think the very best comp could be

maybe a Jared Goff or C.J.

Stroud type of game manager with good accuracy, but he's got to learn to play on time.

He likes to play too much hero ball.

And I don't know.

Like, I do wonder sometimes if he gets caught up in the prime time persona, being his son, you know, his dad's son, and thinking that he needs to set the world on fire and make these spectacular plays instead of just, you know, staying on time.

They call it missionary football, right?

Missionary-style quarterbacking is what the kids are calling it today.

And so, maybe just, you know, just ta-da, not that simple, it's easy, it's not hard, we're just gonna do the easy thing, but that's what Tom Brady did, and no one's complaining about Tom Brady.

All he did was win, you know.

And Jared Goff is Jared Goff has resurrected himself as a really capable quarterback, a guy who had MVP buzz last year.

So I think Shador Sanders has above-average starter, and that's a good thing.

Average starter is like, you know, 15th or 16th starter in the league.

I think he's got a chance to be maybe a little bit better than that.

If that's his ceiling, though.

Okay.

What did we call it?

Last time you were on the show,

this was called a

washroom draft.

What do we call that?

What did you label it?

It was a washroom.

It's like a boots room what was it uh mud room mud room mudroom draft that's what it was was it is that what i said i think so i don't remember anything anymore i'm sure i did

all right let's take a break from the mock draft to talk about underdog yes it's nfl draft week but also the nba and nhl playoffs are here my knicks let's go and the best part is you can win even if your team doesn't it's easy like the mavericks for instance they're not even in the playoffs anymore Tough sitch.

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You know, whether it's if you're

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It can happen, but like, sometimes it's you're doing wholesome things like yard work.

Not that I'm doing a ton of yard work, but I know, Dan, that you've got some projects around the house and we need help.

I'm doing an enormous amount of yard work right now, Mark.

Enormous.

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Mark, why don't you give us 11 through 15 right now?

Okay, I've got the 49ers, Chevario Sword out the door.

They take Jade Baron out of Texas, the cornerback.

They lost a lot of guys on defense.

I could see them taking at least that position.

Cowboys,

Matthew Golden, wide receiver out of Texas at number 12.

We've got the Dolphins, who will be parting ways with Jalen Ramsey, probably, taking Will Johnson, the cornerback out of Michigan.

Uh-oh.

Let's whistle.

Keep going.

Then we've got,

I really, this is one match and pick and player that is obviously intriguing.

And I'm like, can't wait to see where he goes.

But Tyler Warren, the tight end out of Penn State to the Colts at 14.

And then the Falcons, Josh Simmons, the offensive tackle, Ohio State.

Right.

What was that whistle about?

Let's talk about it.

Okay, so

did you consider at all that Will Johnson never ran a 40 this entire drive process?

He didn't play the second half of the year with Turftoe.

Then he didn't run at the combine.

He said, I'm just waiting till my pro day.

Then pro day,

tweak my hamstring a little bit.

I'll run it my own personal pro day.

Then he got to a personal pro day and said, hey, I'm just going to to do field workouts.

And he never ran.

Like, I don't know if a guy who is considered a slow cornerback, who played a lot of zone,

is going to go that early.

Now, earlier, I would have said yes.

Earlier in the process, absolutely.

Right now, there's a lot of questions about is he a 4-6 corner.

So I think he'll slide.

But I want to give him credit.

So Josh Simmons, a lot of us have him back at the Kansas City Chiefs at 31 because there's some maturity maturity concerns.

More importantly, there's Patella concern that the injury he had.

And I think some teams worry about coming back from that.

But I like that Sess took a little swing here because he's a really talented tackle and it's probably going to go earlier than people think he's going to go.

He's probably going to go closer to what his talent base is.

Now, who's at left tackle?

Why did you, I hadn't even considered left tackle over there for the Falcons.

I'm going to do some research here on the fly just in case I need to take back everything everything I just said.

I want to deflate my results even further in this one little swing here because our wonderful producer Justin helped me crowdsource the Josh Simmons one.

He's jumped in and said, like, the injury is not as big of a deal as people think.

And so stock up.

But I don't know if offensive line is their number one knee.

That is fair.

Are we getting rid of Jake Matthews just out of curiosity?

I'll ask the team what's happening with the

contract status.

When I do Mock Rafts, it takes seven hours.

I'm checking contract status.

Let's see, what do we have here?

You've done all this already, right, Mark?

Oh, yeah, but I feel the doorway opening for some critique in gentlemen.

So, what's a dead cap space?

You check the dead cap.

Yeah.

Well, he's definitely not starting the left hand sweep.

I mean,

nope, you're not playing him in front of Bergeron.

Wait a minute.

Where are you playing him exactly?

I guess, you know what?

It's fine.

It's a red shirt year.

You're not going to play.

I don't love Caleb McGarry on the right side, so that's fine.

I'll let it stand.

Okay.

Forward thinking is how I would view it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What do you think, Connor?

You're not going to cap.

Like, it's still a $10 million cap hit for Jake Matthews, even after 26.

So we're still two years away from left tackle, unless you're going to swing Jake Matthews to right tackle.

I see some issues with the selection.

Yeah, I mean,

right now, I'm guessing

your producer said,

you know, why did he mention me on the crowdsource?

I was trying to get the sounds.

Exactly.

I thought that was interesting that Gravy got pulled into the Sessler pick there.

Well, when I did mention that it looked good, but

yeah, it's.

Mark was asking for me for a left tackle, or not a left tackle, but a tackle option.

And I was like, well,

it is Mark.

Mark, don't look.

Yeah, no.

Damn it.

You're right about that.

If you cycle back a few minutes, it sounded like I was going to be praised for that.

So I wasn't at the thing where, like, I don't mention Justin, you know.

Okay.

So here it is.

It's we're official.

This is his last year, Caleb McGarry's last year on his contract.

I'll let it stand.

Maybe we could dump McGarry, you know, for

he could be a casualty, and then we're uh, he's 30 years old, we're off to the races with the new, with a new right tackle in Simmons.

All right, good.

That actually checks out then.

Yeah, so it checks out.

It's fine, and that's one of those surprise picks that people aren't putting in mocks that happen every year.

So, I mean, that's what we need

with Roe Johnson, but not a bad one here with Simmons.

A little surprise, but it makes sense.

It's not going to be good enough to go 14 for 32.

need we need to hit some doubles and triples and a couple home runs to really get um out there in the public discourse so mark with that said this is where the money is really made um anybody could pick the top 10 but here we are 16 to 20.

uh all right cardinals at 16 mikel williams edge out of georgia nobody on that team had more than five sacks a year ago jonathan gannon wants to get players on that defense so there's a bunch of edge rushers and so i'm projecting that kind of player or uh position there bengals gray zabel offensive line north dakota state um if he can play what multiple positions it looks like and i think the bengals it's like you need a lot of defense but you need that line so let's do that um colston lovelin tight end michigan goes to the seahawks uh at 18.

how far do you want me to go to 20 here Connor, Connor looking a little surprised by that pick, let alone Lancelot moving.

No, well, it's, you know, here we are.

We're going to reprocess all this stuff here in a second.

I mean.

Yeah, keep going, Mark.

I feel like we're getting

dangerous, choppy waters here.

Yeah.

Okay.

Bucks go Edge, Donovan, Iziricuscu,

Easy E, I like to call him.

And 20, Broncos.

This one I feel good about.

O'Marion Hampton running back, North Carolina, for Sean Payton and the Broncos.

Yes.

And that one's way easier to pronounce, too.

Hampton.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

I'm a little nervous here as host of heed the call right now.

Just a little bit.

Lance, go ahead.

So can you explain, walk me through the

what was your rationale?

It's fine.

What was your rationale for the Arizona Cardinals again?

Well, edge rusher, they didn't get enough pressure on quarterbacks last year.

You've got a defensive-minded coach that we at least need to see his defense do what

you said they would do.

You had stats that you mentioned.

They had no one with more than five sacks.

And I like, you know, I like Dennis Gardeck and those guys, but they were all like kind of contributing here and there.

And so go just

build up your pass rush.

Yeah.

I think all that that you said is absolutely correct.

I am going to read you Michael Williams' sack stats over the last three years.

Four and a half, four and a half, five.

So

we're looking for more than three.

Those are separate years.

We're looking for more sacks than five, so we go out and draft a guy who's high.

Well,

this is what makes the story of sport wonderful is that these guys sometimes,

you know.

So if I know one thing, it's the Arizona Cardinals developing a player and turning him into something even better at the next game.

No, that's and then when you think of player development, you think Cardinal football.

There's no question about that.

Did they just not make a pitch?

Mike Green's on the board still.

He had 17 sacks last year and 23 tackles for loss.

Yeah, I accept your point there.

Also, there was a little fog of war here where it's like, I want to match a lot of edge guys to different teams.

And

like, I'm sort of saying maybe the Cardinals do the incorrect thing.

See, that's how you got to factor that in.

We don't trust them, so they don't pick the guy that we say they should be.

Look how easy he came off his position.

I had a GM do that to me one time.

Or you could just say, hey, the fact is he's got more projectable traits than Mike Green.

Mike Green isn't as long-limbed as Mike Kell Williams.

And Mike Kell Williams, we're not drafting for year one.

We're drafting for three years, five years.

And Mike Hel Williams is a better physical fit and has a higher upside.

That's what you could have argued also.

No, you did it so well for me that I...

It's good to see you can be taken off your position so easily.

You do great in a war room in the draft.

This is like we just talk about Tessler, and they're just pushing you off your pick.

You got to stay with me.

We just did a draft day.

We just said the draft day Costner movie rewatch

for our show, and you are profiling a little bit like the Jacksonville Jaguars gem in that film, Mark, where you just broke it broken in half.

I disagree with that, Dan.

Yeah, I've never, I've never seen, I've never seen Draft Day, never watched it.

It's full of heart.

Start and finish.

All right, here we go.

Anything else from those

picks that jumped out to you?

Read them again.

We had Mike Hill Williams.

I got kind of stuck there.

Yeah, then we've got Gray Zabel to the Bengals.

That's fine.

Duck Connor didn't like this, apparently, but Colston Loveland to Miss.

Yeah, you got an issue there, Connor.

I know you have your own mock industrial complex over at SI.

I think I'm just more largely disappointed at the fact that about...

10 minutes ago, we had this lane for Mark to really, for the rubber to meet the road and for him to become like a true tape dog and run with it.

And he was being interesting and he was being against the grain and i i've just watched him become picked apart now over the last five minutes and i'm i'm beginning to lose confidence at a massive rate so yeah yeah

lance can you just um lance we're just gonna take you out of the room for uh one minute we're just gonna have a quick pep talk with mark all right lance just stand by a second okay

all right mark yeah we have we have to pull together now we can't let lance

take it.

I thought we got off to a very strong start, but he's finding his footing a little bit with some of these mid-round picks.

It's almost as if every time you relent a little bit or tell him he made a good point, he gets stronger.

And I feel like this is going in the wrong direction.

Well, I'm not surprised that it is, but I'm going to take that to Hartin.

We'll just kick it off here with the next pick.

Yeah, let's bring Lance back in.

You got this, buddy.

Stay strong.

Okay.

All right, Lance, welcome back.

Sorry about that.

Just a little.

Oh, no problem, guys.

Yeah, a little team huddle there.

All right.

Let's go to 21 to 26.

21 is the Steelers.

And I kind of think that if Sanders,

this is not a revolutionary concept, but if he fell here, it feels like a fit to me.

But I have them,

they need a quarterback, and I'm putting Jackson Dart here.

We'll see what happens if that's the kind of player they pick.

But I needed to get a quarterback in here to spice things up a little bit.

The Chargers, Amika Igbuka, the wide receiver out of Ohio State.

That's a position they need to add to.

I trust Ohio State on that front.

Packers, it's this for drafts in Green Bay.

This is where I'm putting Mike Green, the edge out of Marshall.

I think that fan base would go wild if that happened.

That would be a positive.

Malake Starks, the safety out of Georgia to the Vikings.

Donovan Jackson, the interior offensive lineman out of Ohio State to the Texans at 25.

Is this a new strategy to avalanche me with picks so I can't think about them and comment on them?

Like, it's an avalanche of picks, and he said Malachi.

That's not even his first name.

It's Malachi.

Malachi.

Yeah.

Malachi.

And now there's so many names coming in.

I can't even like...

It's like I can't.

Well, we can add them graphically on screen here, but.

One of them seemed crazy.

Let me think.

Okay.

All right, here we go.

I'll give you Dart to the Steelers.

Igbuka.

First of all,

if it's not Sanders, I don't think it's going to be Dart.

That would be Matthew Golden.

What else?

Amika Egbuka to the Ohio State, to the Chargers, the wide receiver.

I actually like that better than what they'll probably do, which is Kenneth Grant, Michigan man.

I would much rather see Egbuka there.

I kind of think, like,

I like what you're doing with your mock there rather than what I think Jim Harbaugh is going to do.

Okay.

Okay.

A little backhanded compliment.

Green to the Packers, Malachi Starks to the Vikings.

Donovan Jackson to the Texans.

Need Donovan Jackson.

Yeah.

No.

That's a good pick, but it's Tyler Booker.

Tyler Booker to the Texans.

And

Lance knows the Texans.

Alabama to Alabama.

You got D'Imico Ryan's Alabama, an Alabama player.

He's a butt kicker.

He's a tough guy.

But Donovan Jackson is a player I actually have graded a little higher than Tyler Booker.

So I'm giving Sessler, once again, I think I like Sessler

over the league on this one.

Ooh, very nice.

And while we're here, real quick, Lance, what is your overall take on the direction of the Texans offseason?

You know, with the obviously the Tunsel trade surprised a lot of people for a team whose season seemed almost ruined by the offensive line's inability to let Stroud take the next step as a passer.

Where do you feel about the Texans right now?

Texans, I think, are in an interesting spot.

I think they're still moving forward.

They're ascending, but they had to take a step back before they could take two steps forward.

And I think the reason they got rid of, first of all, they needed to get rid of

Laramie Tunsell.

They needed to move him to create space so that they could actually maneuver in free agency.

They needed money.

They didn't have money there.

It also

They weren't going to give him a contract next year, so they were able to bring in draft capital.

And then he wasn't really, he had a, he wore the C on his jersey, but

according to some people I talked to in the building, he was not like a big-time leader at all, which is why I think they're going to look for a guy like Tyler Booker, who's considered the leader of Alabama more than any other player.

He's considered the guy who basically ran that whole locker room.

So that's why I think they'll go Booker is they're looking for a certain type of culture builder.

And it's not going to be pretty at left tackle this year.

It may be rough on the whole offensive line.

It's not something that they can, I'm not sure it's going to be rebuilt in one single year.

But, you know, you changed offensive line coach, what you needed to do.

You swapped out offensive coordinator, which kind of surprised me after, you know, just two years.

And one of those years, your rookie was offensive player of the year.

And then the next year, you know, I thought Ryan's and Stroud and Bobby Sloick all had...

a little bit of you know inconsistent years, but only one guy got the, you know, paid the iron price on that one.

And that was Bobby Sloek.

So

I think right now, like, I can't say it's a positive offseason.

I can't say it's negative.

I think they're in a little bit of a purgatory this year, and it will take until next year where we really see, you know, where they have more money and free agency, more draft picks.

I think next year they might be able to fix the offensive line, but I don't think they fix it.

But I do think they add a first-round offensive lineman.

I think that's more than likely, especially in the scenario that Sessler laid out.

But

I would flip flip them.

I would go Booker first before Jackson.

But in my world, I would take Jackson over Booker.

All right.

Good.

I feel like we're gaining some momentum again here.

Mark, let's close out the first round right now.

Okay, Rams, Schmar Stewart, Edge out of Texas AM.

I know they got verse a year ago, but I just like them continuing to build that defense.

Ravens go wide receiver.

Tet McMillan, the wide receiver out of Arizona.

All right.

Tylika Williams, defensive line.

Ohio State to the Lions.

Jihad Campbell, linebacker, Alabama.

Who did you just put?

Who was that pick?

Williams

to the Lions.

Tyleek?

Yeah.

Oh, you put him in a first round.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, I did.

Yes, he did.

Yes, he did.

No, they need a defensive.

You said the Lions, right?

The Lions need a defensive tackle.

That's fine.

Yep.

Yep.

Campbell, the linebacker out of Alabama to the Commanders.

Maxwell Hairston to the Bills at 30, the cornerback out of Kentucky.

Kenneth Grant to the Chiefs, defensive lineman, Michigan.

And James Pierce, the edge out of Tennessee to the Eagles at 32.

I wish I could hate this.

It's just,

I don't hate it.

Let's go through.

Take me through your pick by pick before you avalanche me pick by pick.

I'll help you out with this one.

All right, so let's start with Ted McMillan, a wide receiver going to Baltimore.

So that's a curious one.

They're a team that needs edge.

They need safety.

Now,

they've got Zay Flowers, Rashad Bateman.

They got, you know, Mark Andrews.

Tylene.

I don't think they're, I don't think they're, I don't think they're going wide receiver in the first.

But if Mark told me it was best play, he said, you know, I just think their grade is going to be too high on him.

I don't know that he's a Raven type of personality, to be honest with you.

So I'm going to pass on him.

I've seen him as high as going to the Cowboys at 12.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm sitting all over the place.

He's a tough one because his tape this year is just kind of average.

He ran a 4-5-40, and then he famously had a quote saying he doesn't really watch football or something like that that kind of made some people you know, feel some kind of way about him.

I think they're more likely to go with an edge rusher or

Nikki Manwari, the safety out of South Carolina.

They could go safety, they could go edge rusher.

I just, you know, wide receiver, I'm just looking.

I mean, I get it.

You're loading it up for, you're loading it up for your quarterback,

but

yeah, I mean,

it's not terrible.

And he's, in terms of what you need,

he is a position that you need.

So, yeah, it's not,

I still think they need another safety.

But you got Starks off the board.

So, I guess

E-Man Worry could go here.

Yeah, it's all right.

What's the next one?

He has Tyleek Williams, the lineman.

Yeah, so Lyons needed defensive tackle.

Why did you go with him over, say, Walter Nolan or Kenneth Grant?

I like the background.

I like the fit.

Feels lionsy to me.

Feels lions-y, okay.

I'm going to put that.

Now, I hope you don't mind.

Now, you said you gave me permission to take from this mock draft and use as I see fit on my final mock.

And I am going to, now I may have a different player in mind, to be honest, with

the 27th pick with the Lions, but I may steal from you and say, feels lions-y.

You can, you know, we're a part of the same industry, so

similar lexicon you can use anything you'd like.

I like that.

Jihad Campbell to the commanders, Maxwell Harrison to the Bill.

He actually does feel

commander is

a little bit,

if that is

the descriptive adjective, what is that?

I'll have to check on that one, but

Max Harriston, yeah, Harrison could go way earlier, to be honest with you.

He's another tough one.

Depends on how you like him, durability-wise.

He could end up being the first corner off the board.

That's why this draft's weird.

The same guy who goes in the 20s, in the 12s, 13 range, could end up going in the late 20s.

So you didn't have Matthew Golden in your first round.

No, he went to the

Cowboys, I believe.

No.

No.

Did he?

Oh, he did.

He did.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

Yeah, this draft isn't total shit after all.

It's not bad.

All right, there you go.

So I feel like, yeah, I mean.

Now, James Pierce, I don't, you know, but James Pierce is a good fit there.

Who'd you have for the Chiefs?

Kenneth Grant, Michigan.

We're going to put him next to Chris Chiefs.

Chiefsy.

You know, when I think about it, he does feel Chiefsy.

This is not the worst mock draft Sess has ever done.

Easily last year was.

I think this one, you had a little comeback this year, Mark.

This is not.

No trades either.

I see.

I did that intentionally because in the past, I've tried to put like 14 insane trades in there, and I don't know if I've ever gotten a trade correct.

So this draft to me is a little different.

It felt a little bit more like we talked about.

Line up a guy at each spot, and it's my non-psychotic

plan for what will happen on the night.

Very few trades.

Yeah.

We'll see.

You played this one down the middle.

You didn't try to, you know, you laid up.

You didn't try to get to the green in two.

So on the par five, there's water there, by the way.

So I think you played it safe.

It's just that kind of draft where it's going to be, I don't really know what's going to happen.

There's going to be a lot.

I don't think there's crazy stuff in the first 10, but after that, it becomes a real crap shoot.

Here's some trick shots I'll throw at you.

Colston Loveland ahead of Tyler Warren because some teams have Colston Loveland graded a little bit higher.

Three running backs in the first round with Trayvion Henderson getting into the

late part of the first round.

Walter Nolan is the guy that you didn't put in your mock who is the best defensive tackle on the draft.

But there is some.

I have a hard time putting them in mine because what I'm hearing is, you know, the immaturity and high maintenance and stuff like that.

And so he may fall, but he is the best defensive tackle in this draft.

But I think he could fall.

James Pierce is way better than 32nd, but he's, that's about where he, if he makes it in the first, I'm not sure I'm going to put him in the first round in my final mock just because, you know, there's those same concerns.

No, but you did put Jackson Dart in.

So you had the third quarterback in there.

Tyler Shuck could be a factor in the first round.

And there is a scenario where if the Steelers don't take, if Shadorf Sanders falls to the Steelers and they don't take him, they take a Matthew Golden, for example, or another player.

There's a scenario where

Deion is tweeting some not very nice things at the NFL.

Yeah.

Because it could be a...

It could be a precipitous fall.

It could be maybe the Kenny Pickett draft of 22, where Pickett was was the only first-rounder that went and everyone else fell to the third.

It was

Desmond Ritter fell to the third.

Matt Corral fell to the third.

Malik Willis fell to the third.

And if you're not and with good reason, as it turned out.

Yeah, with good reason.

The league stuck with their tape grades.

And there's a lot of coaches, there's a lot of teams that do not have Shador Sanders as a first-round grade.

So that's what makes this.

And same thing with Jackson Dart.

I have Shador ahead of Jackson Dart for the record, but I think this is an interesting draft because

it's not loaded at the top end, and then people's grades on picks 12 through 30 are going to be very similar.

They're going to be very similar, so there's no telling what flavor ice cream they like at all those different picks.

But pretty good job, though.

Nice.

I like that.

It sounds like this was a tough assignment.

In some ways, an easier assignment, but also a tougher assignment.

Yeah, and I came after Mark because I wanted to test you.

Like, you know, you have to, last year was terrible, abjectly horrible.

And I had to leave prematurely because I couldn't, like, I had work to do.

And I, this is, you just, you hung up on us.

Just goofing around.

It was so bad.

But this one, it seemed like you tried and seemed like you put some thought into it for them, except, you know, he feels lionsy.

I don't know if that feels like you did a lot of work on that one.

But,

you know, I think these were actually pretty decent.

I'll do this again next year.

It's just another year of development and maturity in terms of the assignments.

So I appreciate every little single year that we've begun this

12th annual.

Oh, yeah.

It's taken 12 years.

It's taken on different forms.

Let's put it that way.

Everybody develops at a different pace.

I've been working for the NFL for this is my 11th draft.

You've been doing mock drafts longer than I've been doing mock drafts for NFL, and you had that one from last year?

Well, there's some truth to the historical side of all this.

Mark's a large chunk of clay, and we're molding him into something special.

It's just we're

becoming kind of

a tape dog, as was previously quoted in the show.

I mean, I don't know how much tape he actually watched, but I do like the fact that he copied and pasted a lot of the mocks out there, and he came out with his own version, which is pretty good.

Hey, I'm not trying to remake.

If I get a good recipe, Mark, I'm not changing the ingredients, I'm sticking with the ingredients.

It's exactly the same.

Yes, Justin.

I just wanted to say that time is relative.

And like you said, we all move at our own pace.

This may be the 12th annual Mock Sessler Mark draft.

At the top of the show, it was introduced as the 14th annual.

And last year's was the sixth annual.

So time is relative, and no one really knows.

There you go.

Thank you for explaining the joke, Gravedigger.

Appreciate it.

Lance, I saw you had Black Mirror Mirror teed up in your hotel room.

I do.

I've got my Smith's The Queen is Dead shirt on.

There you go.

I figure I could

wear that and watch, well, it was the Black Mirror.

Yeah.

But I figure I'll watch the final episode of that one, although I haven't heard great things about the last episode, so we'll see.

All right.

Well, thank you for giving us the time, buddy.

And thank you for your honest appraisal of Mark's

continued efforts to climb the ladder in your chosen field of expertise.

Yeah.

Well, I'll have a new podcast coming out soon, and we'll just

try to step on your turf a little bit and see if I can't step on your toes a little bit next time.

I'd love it.

And Mark, I'm sure, would be welcome to come on your show and reverse the roles here.

If that's what you're interested in, Mark's available.

A very beefy.

We lost him.

I guess that was a step too far.

That was a bridge too far to insinuate that you would be on even footing in that way.

No further commitment, I think, is what he was going for there.

I thought Lance challenged you in ways that I didn't expect, and it kind of put you on an island a couple times.

And I know you were uncomfortable because I was uncomfortable at times.

But at the same time, I think that's all part of the growth of what we're trying to accomplish here.

It is.

I will think about about some of the comments that came my way because I kind of knew that would happen at some point.

And

yes, it will be ingrained in my mind.

Connor, I feel like you were shaking your head a couple of times.

Yeah, I just thought I fell for you a little bit.

And Connor, like, there was, you know, the setups where Lance was asking for Mark to dive into the process a little bit more.

That felt like we were getting into some murky waters.

And I'm just glad it's over.

Put it that way.

Yeah, so just a couple things.

I think what you need to do for next year is you need to rehearse a couple of football guy comebacks.

And I texted you one

because he had mentioned Nicky Minworry

out of South Carolina.

And I think, you know, the obvious response there is, well, I didn't have a first round grade on him because then that infers that you have graded.

all of these people in some way, shape, or form.

And another good one that I really like is he feels like a terrible scheme fit to me because is someone, what you've done is you've sort of attacked first and then you've put the onus on him to re-explain the scheme and then how the player folds into it.

And then, once he does that, you can in some manner

regurgitate what he said, and then all of a sudden it feels like there's an organic conversation happening.

Yes.

Like these are just little things that we could work on: canned lines, football guy takes ready

as we continue to ramp up you as a prospect in your own right.

It's as if these strategies are more important than the actual mock draft itself.

And so I will write these down.

Yes, Connor, last word goes to you.

Let's just nail the pronunciations next year, like Ezaraku from Boston College.

Thank you.

We got to get Malachi next time.

You know, some of that is, yes.

And I, um, I, and typically, what I'll do is, if there's a tricky name and then you're going to read a bunch, like, I will phonetically write it out and highlight it and make sure a couple times.

I missed that step this year.

No, because some of them, that's exactly what I did.

That one slipped through the cracks, and the minute it came out of my mouth, I thought, f.

I think it happens to me sometimes if you could just

kind of skip, skip to the last name, or if there's another way around it, a workaround in the future.

Come up with your own football guy nickname for him.

Call him Diaz, you know, or like Ez, you know, something.

I've learned so much.

Yeah.

Just say his initials, you know?

Ooh.

All right, everybody.

We hope you enjoyed the latest Mox Zessler Mark draft.

Next time you hear from us, it will be draft night live stream, followed by a recap episode after that.

So,

until then, do what you must.

Heed the call.

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