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And we do.

We do.

We do.

This is Mark Sessler and typically and Dan Hansis, but he is, I guess we're not allowed to say where he is.

And I understand that for his own sanity, but he is not in Los Angeles.

Justin, you're here, and you've been

as stalwart as ever this week, getting us through a couple shows.

Well, we've not done this show yet, so I don't want to preconceive that it's a success.

Right.

I got us through one show, and I've prepped us for a second show, and hopefully you can drive this bus over the finish line today, Mark.

It's, you know, we did...

We did a little bit of a trick where we did a little draft stuff last week with Dan, and then you and I did what was about 11 to 12-minute news topper on Monday morning.

And I mean, mean, the reviews have been incredible about our chemistry, you and I.

It's sort of like, I think someone called it like a Laurel and Hardy minus

like the humor or organized skits to some degree.

So, I mean, it's been a, it's gone well.

Um, but luckily today, it's not just you and me.

We've got, I'd say, like a flock of guests.

I'm not going to go, I don't use the word cornucopia.

It feels corny.

People thought they were smart.

Yeah, like in third grade, it was like a cool word you used.

And like, we don't even, people don't even do that for Thanksgiving or holidays.

So just a flock of a bushel of great guests.

Let's, um, it's our Thirsty Thursday crew.

We've, let's bring them in.

We've got the Jordan Rodrigue, the incredible Jordan Rodrigue, Mike Dugar, who is doing great work according to many, and the legendary Connor Orr.

I hope I labeled you equally.

Those don't all sound like equal labels, but hello.

Hello, Connor.

Hi, Mark.

How are you?

I don't know.

How are you guys doing?

Thanks for joining today, honestly.

I don't know.

It's all a dream.

Like when you're doing this, you're just staring, you know, everything sort of has a little bit of a

fake false reality to it.

I don't know.

That was a great answer, Mark.

Yes, I think it was just honest.

But we got a lot planned today.

What is going on?

I haven't seen, like, especially Jordan and Mike.

I haven't seen you guys in a number of weeks.

I was gone, and now you were gone.

We're back.

How was your trip, Mark?

I heard a little bit about it on one of the shows, but I think it was great.

It was great.

It was great.

Because, well, I had never been to, like, we talked about it to Missouri, and I didn't know what to expect.

And it's good, I think, to not expect like a lot when you've not, it was very, a different part of the country, but I stayed with some wonderful people and had kind of like a non-we just kind of hung out.

And like, it was, you didn't have to do anything or be anywhere, which is kind of the greatest thing for an adult, I believe.

I love that.

I love that.

Yeah, we're in

draft season.

Me and Mike over at the athletic area.

I was not aware of that.

I did not know that.

Snacks in the middle of that.

So we're continuing to turn out that sweet, sweet content over there.

I did check out one thing on, and I'm going to dig in deeper, but the

beast, Dane Brugler's magnum opus.

And it looks different to me.

It sounds like they've done a lot online and on mobile to amp it up.

Like that thing is a labor of love.

I read that he starts that literally the next year's like weeks after the draft.

That's a pretty wild read.

Yeah, shout out to Dane, man.

He's the

best.

That beast's like, that's crazy.

As someone who just took on a project, like a long-term project, like thinking of doing what Dane just did, which is like three times the work I just did, that's like absolutely nuts.

Yeah, he's the best in the biz.

He does great work.

You need to be a little insane to pull that off.

Like, that would be my one, I don't know what it's like to live with him.

He seems like a very controlled, tempered person.

He has twins.

Like, can you imagine?

He has young twins.

like not only does he do this every year but he also he's like a good you gotta love the grind to do it the way dane does particularly with like the detail he gets into with like people you know aren't like it's one thing to like do a lot of research on travis hunter right now right and spend months on that but like dane will have a guy who maybe caught 30 balls at south dakota state you know like in there like That's pretty psycho for sure.

Like, I appreciate the grind, but that's, that's pretty nuts.

Cause like, how many people people really care besides that guy's family and South Dakota State boosters, if there are any, that that dude's in the beast, you know?

For people who are, yeah, for people who go and read it, and we encourage everyone to, and Dane, by the way, like I was, I was mentioning, like, I can't wrap my head around the fact, like, he, he is a great dad, and he has twin, young twins.

So he's not only doing like the dad thing times, like, there's a clone of the, of one of them, and I could say this as a twin.

Like, that's, that's, that's

some really intense parenting right there.

Um, but also, like, he'll do this thing.

And when you guys go through and read this, listeners, you will see these little sections that are my favorite where he finds these little tidbits where it's like, yeah, I missed one time in the third grade, like, he drew a picture and his fourth, his fourth grade teacher saw it and framed it in the hallway when he got famous.

Or like all this stuff, like, it just little things that are so cool, like these little nuggets that he finds because he talks to scouts.

That's what I don't think people realize is like dane talks to all these scouts across the league like he is just as in it as these scouts are and as these teams are and i really respect a person who is as like legitimately well sourced as he is and he never shows it he never shows his hand he covers it without bias and he knows all these things but he keeps he keeps his secrets you know it's just like it's very cool

It's almost like we should have him on this show at some point in the lead up to the draft, logically.

It's almost like you should, you should have had him on instead of us.

We're not doing nearly as much.

No, you and you, like you guys enticed Connor and I to dig in deeper on that front.

But digging in, do we want to do, we have a little bit of news, Justin, a little, some nuggets out there?

Yeah, I called this little segment of the show draft buzz.

It's not much going on.

We're in that period where everyone just starts making up random things to keep the machine churning and the interest moving.

But a couple interesting nuggets I threw into our rundown here.

Shador Sanders.

We talked a little bit about, maybe we didn't, but it happened a while ago.

The Titans canceling their private workout with him, which indicates the Titans are locked into Cam Ward.

Lots of buzz that Shador Sanders will maybe not be drafted second to the Browns or third to the Giants.

Does he free fall?

Right now, he is scheduled to visit both the Raiders and the Steelers.

The Raiders pick sixth.

The Steelers pick 21st.

He also visited the Saints, who pick ninth, which is notable because his current betting market draft position is over under pick eight and a half, and the over is pretty juiced, which, Jordan, that means that they're expecting the over to be what happens here, which means that pick nine and beyond would be where the draft books see him going right now, or the sports books.

Connor, you just wrote a piece on this about Shador Sanders' quote-unquote free fall.

Your thoughts on the latest buzz around Shador?

I motion that we eliminate the word free fall or stock, generally speaking, for a player during draft time, because I think absent like being convicted of the Zodiac murders, like your stock is not going to drop.

Like the teams know who you are and what you're about.

And I've heard stories of horrifying things that these prospects have said during their in-person visit and they haven't dropped at all.

And so, or relatively, you know, so unless you're ripping a bong through a gas mask on draft night, like the idea of stock to me feels a little bit ridiculous.

And what it does to someone like Sanders is like, it makes it look like he failed something that he didn't actually fail.

And like, if he goes 20th to the Steelers, for example, everyone's gonna be like, holy shit, he dropped.

Or, I mean, Daniel Jeremiah had him as the 20th best prospect in the NFL in November.

So maybe that's just where he was supposed to go all along, you know?

And so

I feel very bad for these kids.

I think this whole thing about stock is largely made up.

It's idiotic.

It's a content driver.

And

it hurts people's feelings.

And contrary to what a lot of people believe, I don't like to hurt anybody's feelings.

And we're also like, we're decades into the draft in the 70s just looked and felt completely different in the early 80s.

Like, aren't we, shouldn't we as as a group of people, be smarter about some of these

phrases and directions about people that are just simply being talked about at this point?

Mark, my first, I don't, I don't know the answer to your question, but my first draft was, no,

my first draft I covered was 2017, so that's the Mahomes draft.

So just for you to start a sentence is like, yeah, you know, back in the 70s, the draft.

No, I wasn't.

I just know that like, if you go watch like the ESPN from a long time ago, like in the 90s, when I really got into it would say like and you're right I that's make that dates me but like they would show what the set looked like back in like 1982 and it was like it looked like it was a high school television station compared to and like the early days of Kuiper and stuff like it's just now like people have been covering this for ages like some of it seem but Mike you've watched more Shador Sanders than than most I would imagine as a college guy like what do you think of him from your eyes

yeah uh so one thing I thought of that just came to my mind recently when I watched the Netflix doc on his dad, the double play, which was cool, you know, because, again, I'm born in 92.

So, like, Deion's baseball career is not like fresh in my mind.

I know he played baseball, but, you know, like flying back and forth from the chopper and everything.

I was aware of it, but it was cool to see it.

Anyway, I bring that up because like to then watch Shadur, I'm like, damn, man, how you not a better athlete?

You know, like, not in an insulting way, but like, that is Deion's son.

I would expect Deion's Deion's son to just be like that dude athletically, if nothing else.

Same thing with Shiloh, to be fair.

I'm like, how are you guys not like premiere athletes?

They're like good athletes, but for their daddy to be Deion Sanders, that's a little...

Could you blame the mom?

I'm just going to ask.

Did she take the whole thing down a bit, maybe?

I don't know who the mom.

Well, I mean, it's got to be on her.

Save it for i Dream in Red, Mark.

Save it for I dream in red.

It's got to be on her.

I feel the same kind of way.

Not the same thing about Bronnie James, but like, because Bronny's very athletic, athletic, right?

But he's short.

He's like 6'1.

His dad's like 6'9.

What?

That's super unfair.

And I'm confused on that.

So that really is the first thing I think of when I watch Shadur, which I did.

You're right.

I watched him quite a bit.

I was Deion Sanders for Halloween.

So like, I was watching a lot of Colorado games.

So the athlete thing stands out because he doesn't have great pocket presence.

And he's quick to turn first and 10 and a second and 26, which I'm very familiar with watching because Russell Wilson used to do that quite a bit.

Like he got one of his offensive coordinators fired damn near because he couldn't get him to stop doing triple axles in the backfield.

And it's like, dude, we can live with second and 12.

We don't have that many plays for second and 19.

So you're killing us.

So stop taking these backbreaking sacks.

Shadur does that same thing without the same type of arm that Russ had and without the same type of athleticism that a guy like Russ had, or even like Fields, who takes bad sacks too.

Or even Deshaun Watson, who pre-Cleveland was also a heavy sack guy.

So that stands out as to why I can see why some people don't want to take take a guy like Shador in the top 10 or whatever, because if I want you to be the dude, I need that athleticism to make up for your shaky pocket presence.

So he can improve that in theory, but how much time do I have if my team is so bad that I'm picking you that early?

I would actually love for him to go for somewhere later, like a Pittsburgh, the Rams, the Niners, just teams that like don't need to throw him out there to the fire right away.

And I'm a proponent of playing young quarterbacks, but like depending on what your drawback is, I don't want to throw you out there.

So when I watch Shador, I'm like, okay, he could spin it, super good.

I think he's like a starting quarterback eventually.

But like, man, he should like talk to his dad every day about not giving him some of that same athleticism.

Cause it just blows my mind.

Like, your dad's neon.

He should be like a freak athlete, you know?

I think what team will draw teams to him is that when he is in a system that's kind of working.

And I think some of when, like you said, when we see the triple axle stuff or some of the bad sacks that he took or some of the times he would hold onto the ball, sometimes those are bad habits that form also as a product of the system and some of the inconsistencies.

We know he had like a great cast of receivers.

Travis Hunter, obviously, elite downfield threat can do anything you want.

But at the same time, like if you build an NFL system, you have a lot of answers to a lot of different problems within that system.

And I think he's a pure thrower and he also can throw on time when he's in an on-time type of system, which is why I always like projecting him to a fit for one of the iterations of the Shanahan offenses and why I've been comping him.

You know, this is going to sound crazy.

I'm not comping the production at all, but in terms of when he is settled, when he is throwing on time,

when he does have outlets and he is making those decisions and throwing guys open, to me, it's like, oh, some people might see, okay, we can take him and put him in a specific system and raise his ceiling the same way that the Shanahan tree once did with the Kirk Cousins, for example.

And I think that

it's certainly not a one-to-one comp, and I'm certainly not comping production.

Like, I know that this is going to whatever people

aggregators leave me alone.

But I'm just saying, putting him in a system like that, where there's a lot of outlets and a lot of answers, and I'll get to this a little bit later with my headline as well.

I do think that that's a fit.

And particularly the second round or later, you're definitely going to have people who think they can create that type of environment around him where he'll thrive.

And I think he will thrive in that type of system.

Justin, just click that first part for social.

Please don't.

Yeah, exactly.

We know how to handle that situation.

Justin, you know, I'm anxious.

Don't do this to me.

We will maximize that.

We are doing some headlines from the future a little later in the show.

And yeah, we can put a pin in that because he may come up a number of times.

Justin, any other little nuggets out there on the horizon?

One more little nugget, Mark.

I'd love for you to comment on this because Adam Schefter has reported that, quote, Travis Hunter is the more likely pick for the Browns at number two.

And the betting markets agree.

Travis Hunter is minus 300 to be the number two pick, according to some books right now.

Abdul Carter plus 205.

Shador Sanders plus 1,400, 14 to 1 there.

So getting clearer and clearer who the betting markets think will be the second pick in the draft.

I mean, they've had...

They've had dinner with Hunter twice now.

They brought like everyone that matters to Colorado to watch his pro day.

And

yes, that's who I would want at number two.

I think like he is the quintessential definition of versatility that's never been matched.

I know there have been two-way players and this or that, but this is a completely different type of specimen.

I guess my question is

fit.

Like, do I trust the Browns over the next two or three years to use him at the right place, the right time?

Like, I want him to go to the place that's best for him.

But I don't know where else you go.

I don't want, for me, just as the Browns fan in me, like, I don't want Abdul Carter over Travis Hunter because I think the one thing that happens during the draft is like, and this is the fan part versus logic, is like you become magnetized by these offensive potential players versus like linemen or edge guys.

But I, so it's like Carter could be the better player down the road, but like Hunter to me is so fascinating that if he goes to the Giants and changes Earth, that's just another kind of like Browns type of move.

I don't know what you guys think.

Yeah,

I think you're right.

I also think that you can always tell how much a coaching staff or,

well, especially a coaching staff overestimates themselves and their own ability when they do gravitate toward skill players that, although are transcendent, like Travis Hunter is and should go as high as possible.

I don't trust many teams to know what to do with him or how to,

you talked about this, to build the workflow around him to maximize that.

And you can always tell who the most hubristic of the lot are by what they gravitate toward, especially in the earlier rounds.

It reminds me a little bit of like over the past couple of years, we've had some really good positionless defensive players come out and Isaiah Simmons for one.

And then he goes to Arizona and you're like, oh, you guys, huh?

Like, that's, yeah,

you think you can do that?

Oh, sweeties.

That's an interesting.

Yeah.

Bless your heart.

But I still do think that

for someone like Stefansky, and I've said this a couple of times, I think that the roster flexibility, if you plan on using him as a two-way player, is something that's probably more attractive to an offensive coach because you can build in maybe another formation or two offensively because you're also saving a roster spot if he can play like that emergency cornerback position.

And so I do think like not a lot, not enough people are talking about that.

And I do think that that is something that might uniquely attract an analytically minded team like the Browns, or at least a team that claims to be a little bit more analytics forward than others are.

Yep.

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All right,

we are back here on Heed the Call.

And a reminder,

if you are not part of our Patreon, let's get real here.

I don't know how you're organizing your daily life, your personal life, but huge events are coming up on the 17th.

And this is going to involve a bunch of guests.

We've locked in Connor, among others, for this, but we're going to take Draft Day the movie, which is a stain on my reputation.

We've been down that road.

And we're going to do a live stream.

We're going to watch it.

We're going to comment.

If you're on YouTube, here's the hideous tweet that we want to talk about getting aggregated into the ground.

This happened to me early in my career at NFL.com.

What a nightmare.

I called it delivers on the great tension of the NFL draft.

Everyone we've talked to since calls it one of the worst movies that's played in a cinema.

So we'll debate that.

That night on the 17th and the 24th,

our live first-round draft.

Live recap.

We're going to go through pick by pick.

Again, with guests, a lot of draft people.

I think everyone here might be dropping in for parts of that.

We're going to iron that out.

And that's just what we do this year.

We're going to do a lot of fun things.

So that's coming up.

And now let's get to our segment.

Justin, you want to lead us in with a little treat?

You've got to come back with me.

Where?

Back to the future.

Nice one.

Headlines from the future.

And this is a, it's an old hit, but it's not old because it's from the future.

So that doesn't make any sense.

In fact, it's not even happened yet.

We're going to tell you what happens.

Ripping headlines from the near and distant future.

Jordan, do you want to get us going?

Well, I think we have a very special one, Justin, that we want to start with.

E

announcing the franchise.

Michael Sean Dugar pens a new Seattle Seahawks book.

This is the A1 headline.

Mike, would love to hear more about this.

Oh, wow.

This is cool.

Thank you.

Nice.

Yeah.

I did not know this was this was the first headline we were doing.

Yeah, my book, my first ever book, The Franchise, Seattle Seahawks, a curated history of the Legion of Boom era will drop August 12th.

Very super excited about that, as the statement says in the news story here.

Yeah, I mean, I've been working on this since September of 2023.

Spent a lot of time writing it.

I wrote it while I was also planning my wedding and opportunity leave.

So I bring that up to say when I went back and read it after I turned it in, even I was just like, damn, I wrote that?

That's cool.

Because it had just been so long since I read the thing.

And I just turned in the final edit a couple of days ago and then got the green light from the publisher and everybody had to put it out, which is why I announced.

So yeah, man, it's

it's gonna be it's I hope everyone likes it.

I was talking to my editor about it the other day because he's the he's I'm so used to and Jordan knows this like we're so used to getting feedback, you know, like like pretty regularly on something we, we write.

And so for me to spend a year on something, year plus, and only one person has ever read it, that's it, you know, talking to them like, yo, man, give me some feedback.

I'm, I'm super nervous.

But yeah, so it covers the Pete Carroll era from about 2010 to Pete's last day on the job, which I was there for.

So not like a linear chronicling per se, like here's what happened, then this, then this, then that.

That'd be super boring.

More so, like it says, a curated history, kind of my view of what really matters and what made that era and shout out to doug baldwin uh who wrote the foreword for me i was super honored for him to do that he killed it too that's one of my favorite parts uh of the book is the way he encapsulates encapsulates what that culture and that era was all about to kick things off so appreciate you guys for the shout out there pre-orders pre-orders really help authors hedonists the links to all of this information is in michael sean's bio on all of his socials pre-orders really really help especially new authors so go help our guy out.

Thank you.

Yes.

You might make it on Mike's homie list if you do.

My people overseas, it's available over there too.

If you have any problems with the pre-order links, let me know.

I know it's available in the UK and stuff too.

Germany should be working and all that as well.

But if not, hit me up.

But I did try to make sure that overseas, everybody can get it too.

And I will throw the link in the description of this podcast.

Look how this works.

Yeah.

We're so proud of you, Mike.

Seriously.

Thank you.

Very, very excited.

Congrats.

And like, what a, it's like a it could be a people's coffee table up in the pacific northwest for the next um 50 years like it's it is a special period of time yeah a guy like mark at the like at the heat house could get you know

under the influence of something and fall on it like if it could be

let's circle back to that event while we're here

that would have helped me that would have helped me um

hey connor how about you go let's get us out of that uh segue

uh

Before I say that, I will say I sent one to Justin that was an old favorite of mine.

At SI, we do a lot of bold predictions.

And when you predict a lot of things, you run out of things to predict.

And so one of my favorite things when I'm out of ideas and I just need to buy myself a minute and maybe give the editor a quick laugh is to just send a text that says, Terry Bradshaw, dead at 86.

And then like it, just like,

or, or like somebody else, like an old NFL figure, just very random.

And then that way they're just like, hey, you can't do that.

And I'm like, yeah, I know.

I just hadn't thought of anything yet.

But

anyway, I say that to say this.

Justin didn't think it was right for the show, but I figured I'd mention it anyway.

Didn't I do that for you?

Good way to intervene, Justin.

Good one.

Didn't I do that to you over our chat client at NFL with Mark Sanchez?

There was one morning where, oh my god, it was, it wasn't even Slack, it was something called Hip Chat back then.

And we were at some Tentpole League event together, and we had drank all night the night before.

And then at like 7:30 in the morning, you sent out a text that said, um, with the AP parentheses and everything, and you had the New York dateline half cut off, and then you had written about how Mark Sanchez died.

And I had rolled out of bed because I was supposed to be working the morning shift, and I was like, shit, like Mark Sanchez is dead.

But

he was very much alive, thankfully.

So it's a crowd.

Hopefully everyone stays that way for a long time.

Anyway, my headline, New York Jets on Deshaun Watson signing, quote, he knows he has a lot to prove.

March 2026.

So very much looking forward to that for

everybody.

Oh, man.

Can you imagine Dan's reaction?

Do we not think, though, that some team, when the Browns let him go is going to sign him, pretend the guy had no past, and then like we all have been around and talked to so many coaches, especially coaches tied to the quarterback position.

And you know that secretly there's like 15 of these guys that are like, I could fix Deshaun Watson if you just put him in the right offense.

And one of them is going to sign this guy when the Cleveland Browns let him go.

He's not done.

I know ESPN had a story the other day.

Has he taken his last snap?

Of course not.

Like Tim Boyle's still taking snaps.

Like Deshaun Watson's going to take snaps in the NFL next year for another team.

Your cynicism is on point, I think.

And the Jets, I mean, I feel like if I went through this with the Browns, Dan should at least have to deal with the same circumstances with the Jets.

Can you imagine it would be like the two of you, like, not only linked by the lore of all you've accomplished and then also been through together and then created together, but also by like a worst case scenario for both teams.

I mean, you could call it, you could say we've already formed that link on some level.

This would just heighten the link.

But yes,

I don't know.

Connor, if you're saying that's going to happen, it's going to happen.

So look out.

I mean, let's take, does anyone think that he is actually done playing football?

No, because I think you're right.

I think there is going to be at least one or two.

I can fix him type of teams because there always are.

There always are.

Yeah.

Unless he doesn't want to.

I think he's done.

I don't think he'll play no more.

I think think he's just too nasty.

Uh, and he sucks,

it just wasn't good.

And I watched, I watched Browns all 22 the first half of the season.

You know, it was awful.

He's not a starting quarterback.

Uh, but there are teams who, like, yeah, want to fix people all the time.

Also, the word troubled is doing a lot of work in that story there.

It's a right word, but it's one of those, like, what's the other one that often gets, I think, mercurial, uh, I think, which can kind of

just be whatever.

It can be a guy who, like killed his homie in college or has an essay

accusation or just like stole laptops, you know, from

the library or something like that.

We use it for pretty much everything that guys do.

Troubled to, yeah, troubled is certainly what I would call Deshaun Watson.

It's a versatile word, I think, is what you're trying to say.

It definitely, definitely is.

All-encompassing, for better or worse,

I guess.

Do you want to do your headline, Mike?

Yeah.

But if you said no, that would be interesting.

I definitely did.

All right.

I headline from the Dugar Daily.

The Dugar Daily.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Over the Hill.

Yeah.

Miami Dolphins trade star wide receiver, Tyreek Hill.

This is going to happen on draft night.

I think draft night is going to create urgency, you know, urgency, like deadlines make deals.

You know, like right now, he can just make weird TikToks and joke about the team wanting to get rid of him.

But then once you get towards like draft day and GMs are talking and throwing stuff around and thinking about their roster and looking at draft picks, boom, you get Tyreek up out of there.

You know,

I don't think it's just been a good marriage the last like year or so.

He was good to start.

He was like worth it to start, like all pro, all that good stuff.

And now there's a reason there's rumblings about like, oh man, could they get rid of him?

And so they finally pull the trigger on it, get him out of there, get some day two compensation.

Not going to get a first round pick because of the, because of the age and the contract, but yeah, get some day two compensation, maybe some conditional stuff.

Send him ideally to the NFC.

There's a few teams that could use receivers, whether they think he's a one or a two, send him to like Carolina, Arizona.

There's probably some more that I can't think of off the top of my head.

But yeah, in the future, we will see Cheetah roaming in a different stadium in 2025.

Book it.

I like this one a lot, especially since this doesn't seem to be an overly dominant wide receiver class either, like a receiver class where not a lot of people are in love.

And you could maybe say that two years of Tyreek Hill is better than the three or four years you would have to put into developing one of these guys at the top.

Yeah, I could definitely see it happening.

And usually on stuff like this, especially where receivers are concerned, we've seen this many, many, many, many times in the past.

Where there's smoke, there's often fire.

There's at least conversation about what something would look like should should they decide to move on.

I'll mention this in my headline as well, but Mike McDaniel and Chris Greer have to be thinking about a ton of different levers to pull in case a variety of different things happen.

They have to show that they have a plan in order to keep their job security, which is on shaky ground right now after a couple of underwhelming seasons.

So yeah, I could definitely see this happening.

And I could see Mike McDaniel re-envisioning and sort of reimagining.

We saw like how fun the

all-speed offense could be and how innovative it could be, but it could not sustain, especially deep into the season and then inclusive to some of the quarterback injuries as well.

And so now you're seeing, okay, maybe he has to re-envision and reimagine what he thinks about in that front.

It's almost like if they don't roll out the same Dolphins team, it buys those guys more time to prove they can do it differently, which is

intriguing.

All right, I will throw it up here.

This is from, this is the subscription rate on this paper is in a little bit of trouble.

The Sessler B.

I mean, you know, people aren't buying physical papers at this point.

But Oceador,

I like to get the, you want to just scream it so you can see it from across the street in the little newspaper box that you open up, right?

Sanders shines at Steelers OTAs, and it's got a subhead.

That's how we do it at the B.

Tomlin gloats, Mike Tomlin gloats, colon.

You can see those NFL bloodlines oozing out.

A sunny development amid reports of China telling the U.S., stop finging around like you're on a Saturday into Monday edibles voyage or your ass is grass.

So we're kind of like, we don't have a lot of beat reporters, so we kind of tie multiple stories into one.

And this leads with Shador Sanders looking good for the Steelers if they, uh, if he falls to them, which I think would be a good landing spot.

And we discussed this to some degree.

This is just efficient story planning, in my opinion.

Yeah.

It's wild

still in circulation.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's maybe more of a pamphlet than a newspaper.

We like to call it a newspaper.

Yeah, it's handed to you on the Venice boardwalk.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Jordan.

Yes, Justin.

There's something interesting in this story, and I don't know if you cruise past the headline and read the intro paragraph here, it says, it wasn't free agent signing Aaron Rodgers who stole the show.

So not only is this a prediction of Shador Sanders to the Steelers, but there's another quarterback in play.

And that was from stringer Justin Graver, who added that to

the mix there.

Thank you for reporting.

This morning, Justin and I were texting back and forth about Mike's headline or the announcement for his book.

And we were talking about

like column inches and column space and everything.

And it brought me back to my days.

I worked at the Center Daily Times in State College, Pennsylvania.

I covered Penn State football.

And it was a paper that was so old.

It's one of the, it was one of the last in the country that still had its own printing press that was housed in this massive building next door.

And I used to go and just watch the papers come out.

It was like the coolest thing ever, especially as someone who went to college and loved my education at the Cronkite School, but also all my professors were like, good luck to you, Prince Dead.

And so, and I liked seeing like physical copies of the newspaper come out.

But I would also be there that late because I would be helping the sports desk and the design desk like fit the stories of the paper and like do the agate pages with all the scores and take the calls for the high school volleyball championship and like all of this stuff and filling out these little columns.

And it brought me back in a really real way this morning when Justin, I was like, Justin, remove the comma.

And he's like, I have to create a whole new line.

And I'm like, we're killing, this is why print, this is print journalism, baby.

We're bringing it back.

It was so much fun.

So that's what your.

your subhead reminded me of.

I was like, oh, we could, we could,

that we could have been succinct on that one, I I think.

Is it a little dim that we're peddling physical papers deep into the future?

It feels like we're a little off the mark.

I think that's a good thing.

I think that's a good thing.

We're bringing it back.

Yeah.

In spirit, yes.

Also, I would like the fit of Shadur in Pittsburgh.

You know, again,

Art Smith, I can't quite.

He's hard to match a quarterback with.

And Connor and Mike, I wonder what you think about this too.

He's hard to match a quarterback with because it seems like sometimes he doesn't quite know what he wants.

He wants to be this physical run first team, you know, throw like a triple option guy in there.

But then also,

when you saw him coordinate games with the good games with Russell Wilson, you really saw some

juice there.

It just, to me, he strikes me still after all this time as a coordinator who doesn't quite know what he wants the identity to be or can't.

quite stick with it for an entire season.

It's hard too when you, I think you probably envisioned something for Justin Fields, felt like you got comfortable with Justin Fields, and then the directive came down from on high that Justin Fields was no longer your starting quarterback.

And I think that that's probably a difficult adjustment.

The same with, hey, you got the Falcons job and you had Matt Ryan.

We weren't sure how much he had left.

And then we're not going to go out and get anybody, but Desmond Ritter will be all right.

And God bless Desmond Ritter, but like that was not anything that anyone was hoping for.

And so I think Shadur is great for him because it matches the fact that Shadur is at his best when he doesn't have to do a lot.

I mean, Art Smith wants to run the ball a great deal.

But what Art, I think, covets more than anything is just someone who can pick up a first down or pick up a red zone score with their legs without having to overly complicate everything else.

And the one thing I will say about Shaddur is...

I do really enjoy watching him in the red zone.

I think he has a little bit of spice to him.

I think

I always call him spicy Teddy Bridgewater.

Someone told me on the phone the other day that was wholly offensive to Teddy Bridgewater.

So apologies to Teddy Bridgewater.

But I thought that I think he provides a lot that Art looks for.

I think Art needs more infrastructure.

I think he needs more, I think he needs more help offensive line-wise with some of your blocking pieces, all that kind of stuff to build what he truly wants.

But I think Shadur is one of those guys that could definitely work there.

And Tomlin, like

players with NFL bloodlines, I think he would really help just insulate him a little bit, which is, I think, what he needs more than anything from a mental perspective.

I think Dion would be into it, too, in terms of the four or five teams.

Now, I mean, I've heard that, like, you want to put Sanders probably ultimately into indoor or dome setting if you could versus like the deep winner of Pittsburgh, but you're still going to have to do all that anyways to get through the play.

Colorado played outside.

Colorado played out in the open elements, too.

I think that would be fine.

And you're not even at altitude, which is a whole other conversation.

Like,

I would love to see, because you know, they play when Shador would score, they would play his song, you know, Perfect Timing, which is what I refer to him as.

It's a good song.

Second song he made, not so much.

But anyway, I would love for Mike him to try to negotiate that with Mike Tomlin.

Like, hey, you know, you know, Coach T, you know, when we score, can we play, you know, and just whatever Mike's response would be.

I don't know what it would be, but I'm sure it would be absolutely glorious.

Like, what do you mean, son?

Can I say something to that effect?

I talked to him recently, and

I hadn't talked to him in a long time.

And I was like, I'm going to lead with a joke, which is always a bad idea.

I led my, when I gave my friend's best man speech, I led with a joke, and it was crickets.

And then I started shaking so badly that the sound of the papers rippling together overdrew the microphone.

And it was a bad, it was a bad.

bad deal.

But I was like, listen, as a staff, we voted on which NFL head coach would be the best president and you won.

And I just wanted you to know that.

And he laughed like, it was like this joyous laugh and it put me at ease.

And I was like, I think this guy is like way more fun than a lot of other people think he is.

And I think like...

He has allowed so many different people to be themselves and to contain it in this entity that you call the Steelers.

And then when they leave, what's the line from the Joker?

Everybody loses their minds?

Like, you know, I think there's really something special about him from the interpersonal.

And I think Shudder would shine there.

There were all these little stories of Tomlin walking into deep dive bars in Pittsburgh and just

buying around for the entire house, then just exit out the door.

Like, and we've seen him at owners' meetings.

He enjoys life.

I label him as that.

That's a good way to put that.

I do think he would work with Arthur Smith, who I don't really like as an OC, but that's probably because I was a a Bijan Robinson fantasy owner

two years ago or whatever when he was having like Cordell Patterson block for Johnu Smith or whatever on the goal line.

And I was like, dude, you're a madman.

Like

you're costing me money.

But I do think what Arthur would like, if I had to narrow it down, it's just a quarterback who's going to do what he says.

You know, like, okay, the play says do this.

So can you do that?

Shadora would be like, yeah.

There you go.

Done.

Like

what he had in Pittsburgh was like two guys who are not that.

I imagine that was awful.

You know,

Justin Phillips wasn't that.

You know, Russ, I know, is not that.

Like, very improvi, like, make stuff happen guys.

Both of them are to varying levels of success.

Whereas Shadur is very much, hey, man, this is your one, this is your two, this is your three.

Read it out, hit whichever one's open.

They'd be like, all right, coach, cool, stand right there and then just do it, you know, or he'll take a bad sack.

But like, he's not going to like piss the OC off and like, hey, man, why'd you change this?

Or why'd you do that?

Like, this was open.

No, Shadur is just going to sit back there and throw it.

And I do think, yeah, that would probably be the best fit.

Probably a sigh of relief compared to, again, last year, where I like Russ and Justin Fields, but they are just not that.

They're good at things, but that's not their bag.

Yeah, interesting.

Justin has been an asset to us, man.

Well, they apparently didn't feel that way that strong.

Jordan and Connor, you have one more, I believe.

You want to go first, Jordan?

Yes.

This is the Rod Reed.

Wow.

I'm so sorry.

I'm like this.

I like that.

Okay, extra, extra.

Miami Dolphins, Arizona Cardinals shock analysts with decisions to select quarterbacks in the early rounds of the NFL draft.

And I'll keep this kind of tight because I want to point out that the Dolphins have an out into Tunga Bailoa's existing contract in 2027.

And I already mentioned how hot Mike McDaniel and Chris Greer's seats are, especially if they underwhelm.

Again, especially if they come out of the gate strong and then injuries derail the season or just a lack of sustainability derails the season.

You know, the quarterback draft class is not like super sexy at the very top, but it's full of players I think that would fit Mike McDaniel.

Quarterbacks who can throw on time and in rhythm, quarterbacks who can create well enough, quarterbacks who point and shoot.

There's pretty much all of those things describe what Mike McDaniel would want in a quarterback.

And then on the other side of things, Kyler Murray has no guaranteed money left on his contract after 2026, and the defense has quietly gotten better every year, despite like a huge lack of talent on that side of the ball.

And the offense still stalls out at about mid-season, including last year when they really could have taken the NFC West at the time that they were surging.

And they sort of just dropped the ball.

I like Kyler.

I love how he throws the ball.

I think he's a very tradable quarterback.

If other teams would certainly be interested, possibly even the one that I just mentioned in the same breath.

But I don't want to forget that this is a big year for Jonathan

Gannon, for Drew Petzing in their third season to prove really what they're made of and prove really what this team can do.

I think both of these teams are going to look in the second round or later at quarterback.

Is it crazy to think that, and just to piggyback off that point, like I think that there's maybe two legitimate NFL starters that aren't going to get taken in the first round of this draft.

And I think it's just, they're just so, it's, I think some of these guys are, I mean, and I'm not saying, but, you know, even the kid from Alabama, Jalen Milro, is going to the draft.

And he must know to some degree that he's going a little bit higher than other people think.

And I know there are people who love Jalen Milro and think that they can build something really interesting out of him, too.

And I think it's just that there are fewer people, but with very specific ideas and needs.

And I have no transition for this, Mark, but I did prepare one final headline.

That's a transition in itself in modern podcasting that worked.

This is Boom, Scientists, Reanimate, Dead Body of John Madden, colon, semicolon, avatar set to call three netflix christmas games um

this is just uh i don't know if anyone saw this but they they revived the dire wolf which is a 10 000 year old extinct species and right my wife and i had like some really interesting just philosophical conversations about this over the last few days for a for a couple with like a very young baby we spent an inordinate amount of time arguing about the merits of reviving a dead species and if you can revive the dire wolf why can't can't you bring back John Madden, right?

I mean, that's that's the second thing you'd bring back.

I totally, I mean, why was the dire wolf first?

Obviously, I don't know.

But yeah,

I think bringing back John Madden is good for everybody.

It feels a little dangerous, but what do you think, Jordan?

So I think, well, first of all, Time magazine shared this story out about it.

And the first comment was from Jurassic Parks

saying, this is not a good idea.

But second of all, I think, and someone certainly will correct me if I'm wrong, including my scientist sister probably, but I believe they're

basically

splicing with existing DNA.

So it's not really a dire wolf as it was, but they're splicing it with a certain type of wolf's DNA in order to make that wolf more dire wolf than it was its existing species.

And so

you'd have to figure out a way, like, who would you splice splice with John Madden, really?

I mean, like,

I'd like to know from the group, like, who would you choose to, like, sort of

insert John Madden's DNA, like, into the physical being of an existing human?

Snoop Dogg.

Yeah, I think, I just think that when

I ran, I really like when Snoop and Marshawn call sports.

I think they've done like boxing matches.

I think Snoop did hockey.

I think Marshawn's done soccer.

And it's, you know, the sports that these guys don't follow.

And it's just absolutely intered.

It's amazing content.

So you mix that with like John Madden if he's going to be back calling games, which of course he would.

Yeah, throw it.

Mix Snoop with John Madden.

There you go.

You get like the best broadcaster ever.

I like that.

I guess like, are we, is some of the concern that you don't get the full, if we're reanimating John Madden, like, does he have the full gusto and energy?

So the first person that came to mind was like Jack Black.

Like mix him with Jack Black and you've got some pizzazz, you know.

You got like a built-in espresso shot kind of.

Yeah, got it.

Connor, look what you've done.

Well, my concern for a reanimated John Madden would be the same as a dire wolf.

Like, did that species die off for a reason?

And are we going to create these things that are just going to like come to my house and eat my dog?

And would John Madden be reanimated with a thirst for animal or human blood?

I don't know.

And there's a lot of questions about God and the universe that we're just playing with here that make me uncomfortable, which is why I wanted to raise this on the show.

So

this might have been the most prescient thing that occurred here.

Bringing stuff back to life is definitely a slippery slope, though.

I agree with Jurassic Park there.

I'm also surprised we're just still making, I saw an ad for a Jurassic Park movie.

I was like, I've never seen any of them, but I'm just like, how are there still so many?

It's like when we make a new Godzilla King Kong, I'm like, bro, they're still beefing?

Like, they haven't squashed that yet.

I don't know.

what else do they have to fight over?

They're frenemies.

It's like Peter Griffin and the chicken.

It's like they just

on site whenever they see each other.

I've never seen any of those either because I just don't understand how they're, what are they fighting over at what Godzilla and King Kong have beef about?

But yeah, I think that it could get dicey.

We just start

bringing stuff back there.

It'll be fun, but yeah, that can get real slippery, slopey, you know, if we're not careful.

It feels like the right year to give it a try, though.

Yeah, nothing matters.

Before we go, we're going to do a, we've got a mailbag here.

And Justin, you can decide, you know, you can decide how many questions you want to drop on us here, but just a little way to get out of the show and bring our listeners into the show.

That's how a mailbag works, everyone.

All right.

We're going to start with a question here from Sean Walsh in honor of our draft day rewatch live stream.

If you had a piece of paper with one name on it, Kevin Costner style, in this year's draft, who would it be?

Jordan, you want to start?

Yes, I did not prepare for this, but

Matthew Golden, the Texas receiver,

I'm a big fan of his game.

I hear great things about him as a person.

I think he's an absolute value add to any team that he joins.

I think he can help them out.

I think he can do a lot of things from a lot of different spots on the field.

And I think that in the class that we still, it's not super defined by like a peer other than Travis Hunter, like a peer one in this class.

I think that over time, you're kind of like Chris Godwin style, you're going to start to see these dominant receivers emerge from this draft class in a very big way over the next couple of years.

And I think he's one of them.

Love it.

Mike, who you got?

So this is going to sound selfish or self-serving, but I'm going to go with,

but I'm going to go with Kyle Williams, the wide receiver state wide receiver.

I was going to go with Kyle Williams.

But I have to say that, so Jordan and I were at the owners' meetings in Florida, and we were talking with an NFL GM.

I won't say which one,

but

Jordan mentioned to that GM that I went to Wazoo.

So that GM then asked me if we had anyone coming out in the draft.

And so this led to like a five-minute, just brief conversation about Kyle Williams with me kind of selling like, yo, you guys should take Kyle.

So now I'm just like hoping that that team takes Kyle.

Now, I don't know if I'll reveal at that point.

Well, me and Jordan have to talk about that.

But yes, that's part of why I'm taking Kyle here.

And to be clear, that GM did know, but was testing Mike to see what Mike would say in that moment.

Yeah.

Well, I really hope that GM was Mike Borganzi because I would love to see Cam Ward and Kyle Williams reunited.

Real quick, Connor, do you have one before we move to the next question?

Yeah, give me a Colson Loveland for Michigan.

I love that guy.

He's like, if Jeff Samarja from Notre Dame could block and became a tight end, Very exciting.

All right.

Well, let's move on to the next question here.

This is from Chris Bailey.

Who would play you all in the Heed the Call movie?

And before I turn it to you guys, Mark, I know, has already done some casting for this.

So let's see if you guys agree with his choices.

Yeah, and we've got, we'll throw some images up here on the YouTube version.

But

I tried to think about this.

Connor, the actor Michael Kelly, I don't know if you ever saw House of Cards, but he plays Doug Stamper, who is like a hardline presidential aide, who he gets into a lot of trouble, but like he's got a conscience too.

And like it kind of just reminds you of me of you when you get a little fired up.

And I will send you an image of him.

Jordan.

Like, some of these are not their current age, but when they were a little younger.

I have like a young, if you go look at.

Judy Garland.

But if you go look at like Kate Hudson from like

a while back, there is a similarity there.

And I think it's not just looks, it's like kind of the energy and what you'd, what you'd bring to the, the whole thing.

Mike, I hope you'd approve of this.

I like this actor very much, but I went Donald Glover.

I think he's like one of the coolest dudes out there.

As an Atlanta fan,

I will take that.

Okay.

Big Atlanta guy.

Justin, you're so, so Dan, and I know we've done this exercise in various forms, and Dan dialed up John Hamm for himself, I believe, one time.

I think I could go, I could maybe buy Kyle Chandler at a certain time for Dan, but

we're going to pick up an image here on YouTube.

If you go look at, because I think the young, young Mike Francesa, when he was just starting with Mike and the Mad Dog, and I'm not saying that

young Mike Francesa.

Like, I know he's, I know Dan probably wouldn't like that, but Mike Francesa, number one, has had pretty much awesome in the same hair his whole life.

And he's a, like, one of the reasons that Dan is in broadcasting.

I don't think they look alike necessarily, but there's some traits.

And so it just, from a hard angle, I went Francesa, but we'll go, we'll just, if he, if anyone tells him, we'll go John Hamm.

I asked Stephanie to pick for me because I'm like, I can't cast for myself.

And she spent some time and came up with Kiefer Sutherland, like the current version where he's older, not like when he's 21 or something in Lost Boys.

That's not applicable.

And then, Justin, how about you?

I suggested Justin Thoreau for Justin, but he came up with, I think,

a better answer.

This has happened before in my life where I've been compared to this actor.

So I went with Michael Sarah.

I think some of his like nervous energy translates well to my semi-awkward social.

You threw me with that.

You suggested that for yourself over text, but it's

Justin, take Thoreau, man.

I know.

Give yourself some credit, man.

I mean, that would be like the body version of me that doesn't exist.

So I went with Michael Slara, which I feel is much more accurate.

Okay.

All right.

Let's get another question out here.

This is for Jordan from Jodi Crocker.

Jordan, which coach is the most egregious hat fisher?

Does Connor know what hat fishing is before we continue?

I do, and

it's not even close.

And I'm very curious if Jordan and I are on the the same page on this one.

Yeah.

So as a hat fisher, by the way.

Yeah, I'm a hat fisher as well.

But I would say that

like when I, when I use the term, I don't mean it always in a,

you're startled by like

ugliness when someone takes it.

I don't mean it like that.

I want to be very clear because I feel like

I get some posts on social media questioning, like, questioning that or misconstruing that.

I just mean they look totally different from when they're wearing a hat to when they're not wearing a hat like sometimes the former is true but i would never say that um

so um i think that the person who looks the most different as the most egregious hat fisher um when he's wearing a hat versus when he's not wearing a hat is jonathan gannon because when jonathan gannon is not wearing a hat it's like pure football coach like you totally see it when he is wearing a hat he usually has it pulled really low and he looks like you know i'd run into him down here in near Hollywood, like getting a bagel or something.

Like, looks like one of those famous people who walks through an airport trying not to be seen, but is definitely seen.

Like, you know, he looks very famous when he wears the hat.

Kind of looks like a cop, too, when he wears the hat, which I don't know how I feel about that.

But he also,

when he takes the hat off, he's reverted instantly into another space and time dimension and is back to the football coach.

So I think he is the most

dramatic example of hat fishing.

What were you going to say, Jean?

Yeah, who was your pick?

I was Kevin O'Connell because the, and I say this having gone through it, this is not a judgment, but he's a very fiery guy.

And as a formerly fiery guy that went through a massive hair recession, that is a hard thing to balance because you can't be hot-blooded and effective and then whip off the hat.

And then all of a sudden, it's like, ooh, you know,

we're dealing with a little bit of, you you know, there's some damage control that needs to be done there.

You know, O'Connell's a hat fisher.

Brian Callahan is a hat fisher.

Big time.

Yeah.

But, but again, dramatic in the difference in that it goes from football coach to like running a movie studio, like hat on, football coach, hat off, running a movie studio.

Like, it just, it's, it's kind of wild, the, the juxtaposition there.

Let's see.

Yeah, those are, I think those are, Shane Steichen is a hat fisher.

Yes, that's another good one.

Yep.

Yeah.

So many of the coaches are like

relatively attractive compared to coaches from a long time ago that like I think some

like back in the day, some guys were wearing all sorts of things to cover up what was going on there, like clothing, hats,

khaki fits.

They're mostly in pretty good shape, the majority of them now.

So it's a little different.

I'm looking at the coach's photo really quick.

Today I was like, who is a hatfisher?

It's funny.

The first person I peeped was, I think this is Kevin O'Connell.

Yeah, standing next to Mike Tomlin.

And I was like, man, who's the guy next to Kevin O'Connell?

The answer should be him, too.

And I think actually that is Shane Steichen

from the photo that they took at the coach's thing.

So yeah, I think, yeah, those two are the answer.

I can't find Jonathan Gannon in this, but I do know what he looks like.

And yeah, big hatfish guy.

All right, a couple more here.

Running over on time a bit, but this is not really much of a question.

This is for Mark from Michael Donager, or I don't know how to say it.

I started following the Browns after listening to Mark Sessler and the passion he showed.

This was prior to his break from the team.

I'm now all in, and I want him to apologize for my mental anguish.

He wants me to apologize?

Yeah, because you made him a Browns fan.

I appreciate the first part of it.

It came from a good place, the passion back then, but I'm assuming this is an adult.

If it's a child, then I'd i'd take a different route on it but if you're an adult like we don't hoist that upon other adults like we are we live in a free society we can change our opinion um but i would i would say more that your ire should be at the organization that can't that just operates as a 24-7 train wreck versus you know me who reacted to it myself so hurt people hurt people keep listening uh michael donic

keep listening

to life

last one here is for connor this comes from i am Dunn.

What does Connor think of the Bills copying the Chiefs and creating a Christmas Hallmark movie?

Now, clarification.

Are the Bills copying the Chiefs or was this like Hallmark's idea to just do another film this time with Buffalo?

This was Hallmark's idea, and I think it's complicated because

you...

Can you recapture the magic of the first one?

And I think that if we're going to end up doing all 32 teams, you're going to get to 2067 with Jacksonville and everyone's just going to be like, what the f are we doing here?

And we're all going to be tired of Hallmark.

And I think Hallmark's something that

we should treat specially.

It's not something that just gets whored out all over the universe for everyone else's attention.

Are they doing what you think they're doing?

I really hope not.

That sounds like most teams, like if in real life, half of these teams are dead by Christmas, literally.

So I don't know what the Christmas theme there is for

a big chunk of them.

And like, also, this is a fan base that, like, and, you know, we can get to it at another point.

Very generous, very charitable.

But, like, two and a half years ago, before all that, we're known for like ripping cocaine and slamming each other through tables.

So, and, and just being in a very general dark space and, like, lewd sexual acts in the stadium.

And so, can we find a little bit better of a.

Hallmark representation for that.

I don't know.

I would love to see more of that in Hallmark movies, frankly.

Then it's not Hallmark.

Throw an object on the field in the movie, you know?

Better be a Valentine heart or a Christmas tree.

These are all possibilities.

I am getting a what's what reads like an urgent message from Justin to wrap the show.

So I don't know, do you have a like a delivery person showing up or something?

But I don't, you know, seems like a relatively tame runtime.

Um, it's been an absolute joy to have you each join today.

I hope you had fun and we will be back next week with more draft coverage with Dan.

That'll change the tenor of the show for the better.

We miss Dan.

We hope he's doing great and I think we all know what to do before we leave.

You just got to heed that call.

See you next time.

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