Mock Madness + NFL Rumblings (with Albert Breer)

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The Heed the Call Podcast

is one month away from the draft

and something

else.

Hmm.

Sufficiently ominous.

Welcome to Heed the Call with Dan Hanses and, wait for it, Connor Orr.

Hey, Conman, we got Sessler on a mysterious vacation, but we got you here.

And yeah, we're one month away from the NFL draft.

How about that?

Does Mark go on anything but mysterious vacations?

I'm just relieved this isn't the last couple of years, he's been going on these like,

you know,

March, early spring, late winter cruises out into like an unforgiving ocean in non-cruise season.

And then he comes back and he's like, oh, it was a nightmare.

The seas were rocky and the boat was in danger.

And I'm like, well, stop doing it.

So this time he's not on the seas.

So let's just take that as the positive and that Mark will be back next Monday.

And we're very happy he got some time away.

And we'll try to leave him alone for this week.

For sure.

So it's you and me, bud.

I like this.

It's going to be fun.

And coming up later, interesting kind of crossover, your other partner in the podcast game, Bert Breer of Sports Illustrated is going to join us and we're going to talk about the latest NFL news and that's going to be fun too.

How's that going to go, you think?

Yeah,

you break out the upside-down pineapples and you have ourselves a little swingers party, you know?

Is that what this is?

I was not aware.

This podcast got more, even more ominous and disturbing, but I'm feeling good.

Yeah, the draft.

Yeah, it's coming up.

And we're going to have, obviously, as we get closer and closer, continue to hit that.

We're going to talk a little bit of a draft

with Bert.

We're also going to.

take a look right now at the latest mock drafts from people that you you know are industry tastemakers let's call them that you know so let's throw them up so we I'm gonna go through all three and good job here by the gravedigger putting this together we have

and this is by the way Connor Justin's very hot about this he's brought it up like four times on our text thread that he wants to

I don't know if this is his term and it's pretty good he wants to call it mock madness is that is that

is that original IP because that's kind of the key here well so here's the problem with all this.

Like, I was very, I was at a family party yesterday, and I was vaguely following the coming together of this, uh, of this show via the document and via the text.

And I kept saying mock madness, and we're looking at the mocks and madness.

And then I was like,

do I have to talk about my final four bracket?

Is this what's happening here?

And then I, because I just kept phasing in and out, uh, phasing in and out, shows how much kind of show prep I'm doing at this point.

But uh, so I don't love it, but that's just because I was confused.

So,

and that could be something different.

All right.

Well, listen, it has nothing to do with the real March Madness.

And Justin, is this original IP this title?

Because that won't really matter whether you go down this road going forward.

It's a great question.

I need to do a little more research.

I may have seen it somewhere.

Like to me, in my brain, I did come up with it, but that doesn't mean I wasn't influenced by something I saw somewhere else.

But yeah, definitely, obviously, time of year.

It's March.

March Madness is ongoing.

Mock drafts.

The mock drafts get crazier and crazier the deeper into March we get because people need to shake things out

stir up clicks.

And then, so like the beginning of March mocks are somewhat probably close to what we'll see.

And then like mid-end March mocks are just like madness, Jackson Dart going in the top three.

And then as we get closer and closer to the draft again, it comes back around to like, oh, this is more or less what we're actually going to see.

When I first got to SI, I did a podcast with Breer and Jenny Vrentis, and we would have a mock draft competition and I had a scoring system.

But the way that our editors laid out the mock draft, you did it by seniority.

And so I went at whatever it was, the last week of March.

Jenny went in the middle of April and Albert's was always the day before the draft.

And so by the time the day before the draft comes, I'm not slighting Albert, but you kind of know where a lot of this is going to go or Albert knows because Albert's gotten a longer time to report it.

And here I have some Jagoff that's going in the sixth round, getting picked number four overall by the Bears.

And I just get completely blown out of the water.

And we were buying bottles of wine for this one.

So it was not,

it wasn't free of consequence.

I know the timeline doesn't line up, but I just picture.

Connor just stewing about this and like sitting in his TNC in some remote area of the county he lives in, overlooking the town with just that ominous synthesizer underneath him as he grabs his steering wheel so tight that he leaves finger marks

I haven't seen a ton of like I just googled mock madness and I haven't seen anyone else using surprising all right.

Let's that's our that is our IP then heed the call IP and if anybody else uses it you're fed

Do you hear us?

That's a threat.

That's a physical threat of violence.

I don't even know if that's a legal is that illegal?

I don't know.

Here are the mocks mock madness trademark heed the call We'll take a look at Jeremiah, our old buddy, if you want to call him that, over at NFL Media, Mel Kuyper, the stalwart at ESBN.

And then our dudes, Josh and Hayden, who do awesome work.

I'll wait for it.

You know, Justin has the ding ready when we mention the Titans podcast that he does, but.

He's got that finger on the trigger for that.

Josh and Hayden, who are right now, you know, obviously they're the fantasy experts for most of the year, but then they shift into draft experts during this time of year and legitimate draft experts.

These guys are tape dogs, so we're going to look at their draft here, too.

But here we go.

Jeremiah, Kuiper, and our guys all have Cam Ward going number one to the Titans.

Justin, I know that you are.

And we're just looking at the top 10 for now because let's not go crazy.

But I know you're very high on Ward, and this is a good sign that the tastemakers all have him there.

Good for you, buddy, if this is how it plays out.

Yeah, I think it's starting to become clearer and clearer.

Cam Ward's pro day was yesterday, Miami's entire pro day, but Cam Ward was the star there.

Interviews on NFL Network, people are talking about him.

So we are all in, all aboard for Cam Ward.

I am conducting the Cam Tram.

All right, I'm done.

Go ahead.

All right, good for you.

Camtram

at number two, they're all right now in lockstep.

Connor on Abdul Carter from Penn State.

And

there would be some head scratching, I guess, just because they just gave all the money in the world to Miles Garrett.

But if Carter is the prospect that everyone seems to think, I guess you can't go wrong if he's a can't-miss dude.

No, I mean, you're collapsing both edges now, and you start to build something reminiscent of like that first

49ers defense, the first one with Robert Saul that lost to to the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, where you're just instantly destroying an offensive line and ruining things for the quarterback.

So I think that probably was part of the plan that appealed to Miles Garrett: hey, you're going to see single coverage a little bit more.

You're not going to be double-teamed on every snap.

And that might have been more appealing to him than whatever they're going to do at quarterback.

Yeah, things start to get a little less chalky right now with these three mocks.

The Giants are in a very interesting spot.

We're going to get to the quarterback move.

They made it in the news in just a couple of minutes, but Kuiper and Jeremiah have Shadur Sanders from Colorado going there as their QB one or QB of the future.

You have Josh and Hayden leaning towards Travis Hunter.

I'm so happy they did this.

Yeah, the dynamic wide receiver cornerback talent.

We're going to talk about Travis Hunter with Breer in a little bit.

So you have that.

And then at the fourth pick, the Patriots, who, again, are still, and we're going to talk about the Patriots and someone that met with them in just a couple of minutes.

They still need help on offense.

They need need it on the line.

They need it at wide receiver.

Probably the safest bet in the draft right now, Connor and Justin, is the Patriots either going offensive line or wide receiver.

And Jeremiah has Hunter and Kuiper has Hunter and Josh and Hayden have LSU tackle Will Campbell going.

So they're in the same area there.

I debated

how to express my doubt that the Giants will take Shadur Sanders.

And so I would like to put some skin in the game here.

I thought of multiple ways to do this.

And it's a bit hacky, right?

But my least favorite food in the world is olives.

And I will eat a jar of olives on this show if the Giants take Shader Sanders.

I am that confident that I don't think that they're going to take Shaddur Sanders.

I don't think they should take Shaddur Sanders.

And we can connect them drafting Travis Hunter to my love of

my newfound love of a player.

that they recently signed when we talk about that later.

Okay, yeah.

And I'm with you.

I'm not going to eat a jar of olives, but please make note of that, Justin, so we don't forget.

If it does happen, these mocks, I'm guessing Jeremiah Kuyper came before the Winston news that we'll get to.

I still, I totally can see them doubling up with veterans in that quarterback room, and that would save you from olives.

Just a couple more spots here.

You look at

before you go on, Dan, real quick, just wanted to mention that

Josh and Hayden actually don't have Shador Sanders in their top 10 at all, which is a little controversial at this point in time.

I'm with them fully.

But yeah, that's based on their tape study.

And Hayden Winks particularly has been going hard on this, that he would grade Shador as a second-round talent.

And the fact that he's being mocked at some people have him going second to the Browns.

Obviously, none of these three do right now.

But just there's a lot of interesting perspectives on where Shador is going to end up going in this draft.

I agree with them fully.

Very interesting.

Interesting.

Yeah,

a running back going in the first round doesn't happen a lot anymore.

Going in the top 10, even more rare.

But we got both Jeremiah and Kuiper have Boise State running back Ashton Genty going to the Raiders at six.

Josh and Hayden, who, by the way, have a new mock coming out this week, so be on the lookout for that.

They have him taken a wide receiver, and Justin's going to pronounce his first name for me.

Well, nobody calls him Teteora.

We just call him Tet.

Tet McMillan.

Tet McMillan.

I'm down with that.

I'm down with that as well.

Elsewhere, they have the Jets taking an offensive lineman or a tight end.

Someone tell me about this Tyler Warren.

I'm hearing big pop about the Penn State tight end here, and the Jets have had a hole in that spot really since Dustin Keller was a playmaker 15 years ago.

So Tyler Warren, get me excited.

I loved him.

I loved him in the college football playoff.

I think he can do a lot.

I think he's one of those guys that, and this used to be a great point that Wes used to make about tight ends truly being of ultimate value to younger quarterbacks or developing quarterbacks.

But Warren is one of those guys that can find the ball, that can line up at multiple positions and then can get you the yards after catch.

Maybe not, you know, I think maybe like a Dustin Keller plus in that I really think he's going to be everywhere in an offense.

And as we've seen with the 49ers and someone like Kyle Yuschek, you know, you can put him in in so many places that you can start to dictate the personnel that the defense puts on the field, which is why I think Tyler Warren is super exciting to me.

Lance's airline comped him to Jeremy Shocky.

Is that good or bad?

Shocky was a good player.

He's kind of a lunatic, right?

Shocky Sands, three vodka tonics.

Yeah.

Exactly.

A less boozy Jeremy Shocky.

That sounds pretty good to me.

The last thing I want to note is in the bottom of the top 10 here,

Josh and Hayden and their most recent one that's out have Genti, the running back, going to the Bears at 10.

You want to win the draft.

You want to get people excited.

People are already, you know, the Bears for the second straight year are hype bunnies.

Adding Genti to that offense, that would absolutely get people pumped up.

So, you know, we'll follow along as we, again, one month.

I don't know what's going on with that ominous synth

in the Zumwalt Open.

I'm a little concerned about it.

But in one month, the draft goes.

Yeah.

I don't know what that's about, but let's keep an eye on it.

All right, let's do some news.

It doesn't matter what happened in the past, and no one really cares about the future.

Reality are, we are what we are.

But where are we trying to go?

What are we willing to do to be the best that we can be today?

I'm with you.

I got your back.

So be thinking, actually, don't think.

Be the best that you can be today together.

All right, man.

That is sometimes backup quarterback and future scared straight youth minister Jameis Winston.

In the Browns huddle at some point in the past season, we knew Jameis was going to come out of this offseason with a new gig, and it is indeed with the New York Giants who announced Friday that he has agreed to sign with Big Blue.

The deal is two years for eight, which is pretty standard backup money for a veteran like Winston, a former number one pick who obviously has bounced around the league now.

Winston added this tweet, start spread in the news with the W capitalized and then an apple for the big apple.

And, you know, he is, we have reached the Winston stage where he's a brand master.

He's branding himself in ways that are fun, like the W, the eating of the W.

He could be a fun quarterback to watch.

And he adds another piece to that Giants quarterback room.

Is it the final piece?

Probably not.

Now it's DeVito, Tommy DeVito, Tommy Cutlitz, and Jameis Winston.

And at the very least, it's kind of an entertaining one-two punch right there, Connor.

Yeah.

And I think like I connected my Pepe Sylvia board here over the weekend when I was thinking about Jameis.

I was thinking about the draft.

Travis Hunter at three.

Let's say you get Russell Wilson and you pair him with Jameis Winston.

Two quarterbacks who are largely unreliable, but two of your best go ball throwers in the NFL.

Jameis Winston, when he was with Sean Payton, was pretty solid in structure.

And then we next saw him with Cleveland, who by by the time Jameis was starting games, wasn't really trying to win.

And so I don't know how much they really cared about cutting out the routes that he didn't like to throw, all that kind of stuff.

But what's interesting to me is that Travis Hunter is one of the best contested catch go ball receivers that we've seen like this century.

He had a 10% better contested catch rate than Drake London, who was the next highest that we've had in this modern draft era.

And what's interesting is Shadur under throws balls more than almost any other like top rated quarterback that we've had.

So here you have this opportunity where you don't have a lot of other options.

Aaron Rodgers said no.

Matt Stafford said no.

Your defense kind of sucks.

Your offensive line isn't good.

What do you have?

You have Malik Neighbors and you maybe have Travis Hunter and you have two quarterbacks if you sign Russell who can push the ball down the field.

It's almost like an NBA team that is devoid of talent and you just start running and shooting and full court pressing.

And I kind of love it.

Like I talked myself into it over the weekend where it's not great.

And let me get ahead of the people who are like, Connor talks about backup quarterbacks, like they're Matt Stafford.

No, I don't.

This is not great.

It's not good that they're in this situation.

But if you were Joe Shane and Brian Dable and everything else has failed around you, trying to put up like five touchdowns and five picks a game is better than just sitting on your hands, is it not?

Yes.

I don't know if there's reporting out there that Aaron Rodgers said no.

It could be that Rodgers said no to them and they pivoted.

Or they decided we're not going to be in the rogers waiting game when we feel like we're probably not his first choice anyway if they read the tea leaves then there's his third choice right right

because he's still kind of i i would guess he's still there's probably a sliver of him that's hoping that jj mccarthy looks terrible in spring ball and he can go to minnesota right it's very possible um so whatever it was uh it's this seems like obviously the giants giving up on the rogers dream after they gave up on the stafford dream and and now they're it's a settle.

I mean, Winston is a settle, and Russell Wilson will be a settle.

I think what's interesting about the dynamic between those two players, if that's how their depth chart sorts out, if Russell Wilson does, and I've been saying it for weeks and weeks on the show, that nothing makes more sense for the Giants and the management and the way they comport themselves as an organization that late period Russell Wilson ends up on this team.

It just connects, the dots connect.

They're very different quarterbacks at this stage.

Yes, they both, Russ has the reputation.

He throws a sexy deep ball and all that, but he's also run some of the most boring offenses in the league the last couple of years.

So you would have him and then waiting behind him, and it's almost a perfect spot for Winston.

It's going to be hard for Dable and Shane if this offense ran behind Wilson and it starts to sputter.

It's like, we got this guy that's instant oatmeal for us,

good and bad, but is going to bring the juice.

So if that's how that quarterback room shakes out,

as a Giants fan, I'm not pumped about it, but I'm also like, okay, listen, we're not winning the Super Bowl this year.

But if we can get a couple of guys that have a lot of experience, professional guys in there, and you put them with Dable and a core of some, you're some young, exciting pieces on the core of that Giants team, maybe we could be competitive and be working towards something.

So solid.

I think the Giants and the Jets have both landed in places where it's like, okay, we see where the

plan is at quarterback for the New York teams, but Giants aren't done yet.

I don't think so.

No, I liken it to like, I was watching the tournament this weekend and

the coach at Bryant, I think his dad was like the legendary St.

Joe's coach, Phil Martelli Jr.

or whatever.

He coaches at Bryant and they were playing Michigan State in the first round and they just started the game just launching threes because you're like,

what difference does it make?

We're going to lose 90% of the time.

So why don't we just come out, especially for the Giants, why don't you just come out firing the ball downfield?

At the very least, it lightens the box.

It takes some pressure off of that god-awful offensive line.

And maybe a couple of things bounce your way and you win seven, eight, nine games, but it's fun.

It's fun.

And it's like for the first time since what

2010, it's an enjoyable watch.

I mean, good for them.

There's there that one Danny Dimes here.

There was some excitement in the building.

True.

Yeah.

But otherwise, it's been pretty grim since that second win over the Patriots.

Other news: the Saints bring back Brandon Cooks, who they drafted once upon a time, spent last year with the Cowboys.

He was the number

20 overall pick once upon a time

for the

Saints, and now he comes back at 31 years old.

Not the old, he's old, James,

he's old Brandon Cooks rather than, you know, the old Brandon Cooks.

But at the same time, that adds a body in that room.

Another move out there.

The Patriots, as we mentioned, they are looking to beef up that wide receiver room.

And we have Stephon Diggs entering the picture there.

He is visiting with the Patriots and, according to Mike Reese, quote, ahead of schedule in recovery from torn ACL.

Everybody's ahead of schedule this time of year.

We know that, but he's already running at full speed.

So that's good.

Good for Diggs, and that makes sense.

There we go.

Technic out there.

You need that too.

Doing the work.

You need that.

Happy Trails in other news.

Brandon Graham.

Meant to get to this last week, but we ran out of time.

Brandon Graham, who spent his entire career with the philadelphia eagles uh announced his retirement uh and here's a little bit from his end of career press conference first i just want to say thank you uh to everybody

already

but uh

y'all know i i gave everything i had everything i had in this

and uh I don't have no regrets.

That's one thing I tell them young boys.

Don't have no regrets.

I'm going to, when I retire from podcasting, hopefully in like 20 years or something,

I'm just going to lift that word for word, that press conference.

That's what I'm going to do.

And what I'll do also, because this is the, I mean, the best case scenario, right?

For a guy that former first-round pick out of Michigan 2010, spent his entire career with one team, team record for regular season games played over 200, third all-time in sacks, and two championships.

And he's sitting at the dais for this press conference, Connor, with a Lombardi on each side of them.

The only two Lombardi's the Eagles have ever won.

They both came on his watch and to top it off, the Cherry on top.

He gets hurt this year.

He makes it back in time to be a part of the game, of the blowout of the Chiefs, and he retires on top.

In this sport, in any sport, going out on your terms on top is the rarest of all achievements.

So good for you, Brandon Graham,

going out a champion.

It does not happen happen often.

And I think probably just walking right into Philadelphia's front office.

That was the buzz like two years ago when people thought he was retiring, that they would create some sort of a role for him and make him some sort of development expert or whatever it is.

And that's truly the athlete bingo, where you double up on Super Bowls, you get to retire on top of your game, and then you still have something to do related to football then for the near future, foreseeable future for the rest of your life.

Like that is true, Like just a cherry.

I mean, chef's kits.

You could not, you can't end a career on better terms.

And all the Eagles fans that listen to this pod, that we at times buttheads.

But guess what?

Like, I don't hate any team.

Well, there's one team in the history of the show that I truly hate.

It was the Patriots, especially late in that Patriots run.

I was bitter and angry that it wouldn't end.

There was no one.

And including, if you're listening, if you were at the stadium, I think, what was it, Minneapolis,

five or six years ago, whenever it was now, when the Eagles won that first Super Bowl, and it was Brandon Graham that made this, had the strip sack of Brady.

That really is when you knew they were going to pull it off, they were going to finally bring the Lombardi.

I was celebrating in that stadium for your Eagles.

I loved it.

I couldn't get enough of that moment.

So, yes, maybe, maybe this current Eagles team, there are elements of it that I'm not the biggest fan of, but they deserve their flowers for what they achieved this year.

But that Eagles team, I'll never forget so many great memories.

The The excitement in that stadium, Connor.

There's Robert Kraft looking sad if you're watching on YouTube.

Nothing better.

The excitement in that stadium, the buzz in that stadium when the Eagles were getting over the hump.

One of my favorite Super Bowls that I got to cover for that reason, incredible energy.

I remember our friend Colleen Wolf running into her on the field after the game with the confetti, and she's just in tears, a Philadelphia native.

Just a special moment, and Brandon Graham made it happen.

I remember going down to the Patriots locker room because I did the losers for years.

I mean, I think I did like eight straight years of losing locker room.

But I remember being struck by the fact that New England had this big display of

for the players to eat,

unsauced fried chicken wings.

And I was like, I wonder if Bill, ever the

ever the literary guy, this was dead birds, right?

It was dead birds.

And that was like his metaphor for the whole thing.

Like after the game, they were going to consume dead birds.

But unfortunately, it didn't happen, you know.

And finally, in the news,

I like nice adjective.

And finally, in the news, a new segment that I call

Remember the Titans?

They sign place kicker Joey Sly.

That's all I got.

That's the latest edition of

Remember the Titans?

Is it over for Nick Folk?

What a run it would be if it is.

Any thoughts, Connie?

Or Justin?

One of my favorite things that one of my relatives does when there's just a benign thing that's thrown out and they want to end the conversation, they just say, oh, good for you.

And then that's it.

And like, that's all that cave divided.

It's just like, oh, Joey, so good for you, Justin.

Good for you.

Wait, look at this rap sheet tweet, by the way.

You know, we've been on this.

Shark Sports Management.

The Titans are adding a kicker as they are signing Ba, Ba, Ba, Joy Sly, per agent Glenn Schwartzman of Shark Sports Management.

Man, Shark Sports getting big pop now, too.

It's not just the biggest boys in the block.

All right, that's what's happening in the news.

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Welcome back.

Our next guest.

Holy shit.

Senior writer covering the NFL for Sports Illustrated, host of SI NFL's The Monday Morning Quarterback NFL Podcast, MMQB,

with some guy named Orr.

I love it.

This music makes it sound like Clint Eastwood's coming into the saloon.

It's great.

It's a Rorschach test.

Still, everyone has a different reaction to it.

My favorite is still Kyle Brandt's thinking he was doing a guest spot on silk stockings.

This does have like some overnight Cinemax programming vibes to it, too, for sure.

Taxi cab confession.

Yeah, it was silk stocking

stocking.

I never saw it.

Albert Rear, welcome to Heed the Call for the first time.

Thanks for having me, guys.

I appreciate it.

Big fan.

Big fan of you,

Albert.

We all go back.

We all worked at NFL Media once upon a time during their Imperial age.

And now here we are.

Simpler times.

Yes, in a different time for them.

But for us, we're very excited to have you on.

And

you, we talked a little bit before you came on.

You were on deadline.

You've been up since the middle of the night, cranking out a copy for your weekly column.

And there you go.

Here's the payoff.

I appreciate you exaggerating that, too.

It's fine.

Here's the payoff, right?

It's like, what's the number one story if you go to like Roto World right at the top talking Kirk Cousins and what's next for Kirk Cousins, potentially slow playing his next move as he navigates his way out of Atlanta.

It's the Albert Breer reporting.

So why don't we start there, Albert?

Because he's like the last domino in all this, right?

We're trying to figure out like who's the quarterback of the Giants or the Steelers or the Browns or any other number of teams.

Then there's this one guy who's a decorated veteran coming off kind of a nightmare year.

It's a nightmare for everyone down there right now because the Falcons are trying to come to terms.

Are we really going to come to grips with the idea of maybe paying that guy 90 million for 13 bad games or whatever it was how does this all play out how do you see it and where where where's cousins camp on this right now i i think ownership actually plays into it some dan like where i don't think the owner liked the idea of paying 90 million dollars for a single year and 100 over two

with the insurance he gave them behind michael pennix sounded better um to him

and you know i i'm not sure that's the healthiest thing for your young quarterback to have you know that in the room.

Like, you have a bad first month.

If you're Michael Pennix, which would be understandable,

everyone has bumps, you know.

Like, could that create an environment that's not conducive for your young quarterback?

I think you make that argument.

But,

you know, really where the Falcons stand right now is, you know, I...

I think that they would want considerable financial relief in a draft pick.

Now, how much would they be willing to pay of the $27.5 million

he's owed, the fully guaranteed money that's left for this year.

I think that's sort of the operative question here.

And for Cousins himself,

I will say this, like

this isn't without risk to

take this sort of approach, right?

Like, because if you're him and you say, okay, like, I don't want this to happen again, where like last year I was blindsided by Michael Pennix

being drafted eighth overall and all of a sudden I found myself in a much different situation than I signed up for.

Well, that's fine.

You know, like, okay, so you're going to wait to see if the Giants or the Browns take Shador Sanders.

You know, they're in the top three.

The risk is that those teams just decide to move on, you know, and that those teams

say, like, we can't wait, you know, and

we're not going to sit here until a Friday after the first night of the draft to pull off a trade.

And then, you know, maybe Russell Wilson or Joe Flacco ends up in one of those places or one ends up in each one of them.

And then one of those teams takes you to our Sanders.

That's the risk to me is that you could be left without a seat when the music stops.

So, you know, I think there are some moving pieces here.

He definitely wants to start somewhere next year.

The Falcons have been made aware of that.

You know, but obviously, because of the financial piece of this, nothing's gotten done until now.

And, you know, I think because of his own feeling that he wants to wait to see what happens in the draft, there is some chance that he remains in the roster in 2025.

Dan, you brought up before Russell Wilson being the perfect quarterback for the Giants, the only more perfect quarterback in terms of how the Giants fancy themselves would be Kirk Cousins.

But I do think that in terms of his understanding of the league,

he's got a great agent too, a former personnel guy.

Is he from Shark Sports Management?

But to constantly be in this position where you are the most coveted asset in a given time, in a given window.

Like right now, it's Aaron Rodgers week.

I said this to Albert during our taping this morning that I theorized along with Mike Florio that during the Pat McPhee live show next week in Pittsburgh, Aaron Rodgers will walk out on the stage and be announced as the quarterback of the Steelers, and that whole thing is over.

And so there's Aaron Rodgers week, and then after that, there's Russell Wilson week.

And then after the draft, it's going to be legitimately the kirk cousins bonanza and imagine that you know i mean i connor by the way broke the news to me on the podcast about the mcafee show being in pittsburgh i do like and i've since changed my like at first i was like yeah he's rogers is definitely going to show up but what would be a more aaron rogers thing would be to show up and then not announce it Or, or

so like that was drama up, and then he leaves and it's like, you still have the cliffhanger there.

And the other massive Rodgers move would would be that was the plan for him to show up.

And then Florio, as happens, ruined it.

And then he's like, oh, now I'm not going to do it just because, you know, F that guy.

This was supposed to be my moment.

And now it's going to sound like I'm just, you know.

Oh, good idea, Mike.

Yeah, the Rodgers of it all.

Because here's the, you know, so you wrote about it this week, that he spent a lot of time with the Steelers, met with Khan, met with Tomlin, spent time with Arthur Smith, other coaches.

And is it possible Rogers does the same in a different manner as Cousins, where he plays the game in musical chairs and can end up without one?

Or do you think this just ends with him going to Pittsburgh and that's it's a wrap?

No, I mean, I think the Giants, and like I almost think he's separate from all of this, right?

Just because he's out there.

I think the Steelers are waiting for him, and the Giants now have like their contingency with Jameis Winston on the roster.

So the Giants probably don't have to do anything.

They can wait for him.

Jameis Winston isn't going to prevent them from making it work if he wants to go there.

You know, I think it's those two are retirement unless the Vikings decide to reverse course on this whole thing.

And honestly, like I sort of, you know, I mentioned this earlier in our pod.

Like I sort of look at this like, isn't what the Giants, I mean, and Dan, you're a Jets fan, so you could probably help me here.

Isn't what the Giants are asking from Aaron Rodgers sort of the same as what the Jets asked two years ago, where it's like, you've got a handful of promising young players in the roster.

It looks like if you could plug Aaron Rodgers into it, they maybe they're not that far away.

They haven't won in a while.

So you're basically asking him to come in and lift all boats, right?

Like that's what he was asking.

That's what the Jets were asking.

That's what the Giants are asking.

Whereas I think what the Steelers are asking from him is a little bit different.

You know, it's jump on a moving train.

And he's got a bunch of guys like nobody's your peer when you're 40 years old in the NFL, but guys who are as close to being his peers as possible.

Minka Fitzpatrick, TJ Watt, Cam Hayward, and now DK Metcalf, who's a third contract guy.

And maybe he looks at it and says, in Pittsburgh, there are all these guys that are going to be operating with the same sense of urgency as me.

And they're not going to be looking at me to kind of lift them up.

They're looking at me to be the final piece.

I think that's sort of the difference between the two options right now.

Yeah.

And you, and it is, you know, being a Jets fan is not easy business.

Like, I think you wrote about this too, that he came out of the experience with the Jets, you know, the what looking more fondly on what Green Bay offered him, which was this like franchise security and it's professionally run environment.

And there's a code that you're going to get to.

And even in a down year, things aren't going to fall to hell all around you.

And yeah, I think Pittsburgh makes sense.

Look at the Steelers.

If nothing else, and I say it, Bert, on the show, that they have parked themselves in this cul-de-sac of elite mediocrity.

But so that's kind of, there's negatives to that, but they also, they're never bad.

And Rogers, I think what he, part of in the back of his mind is like, i'd like to go out on top like brandon graham and do the press conference with the lombardi on each side of me but i don't want to go out like things went with the jets last year or where i'm just going out in shame and and with my tail between my legs so the steelers do provide you kind of a safer safety net for how this ending goes as well yeah and he flat out said it to me like last summer you know i got to spend some time with him and he said you know i don't like about the achilles like i i didn't want to go out like that i mean isn't wouldn't it be worse to go out the way this ended versus what, like, last year's just an injury, right?

This is all, I feel like this is almost worse, right?

Like, because you did come back and

it didn't look good, you know?

And I think you still saw flashes of Aaron Rodgers.

Like, I had a scout tell me, go back and watch the Jaguars game.

So I did, right?

Like, when the Jets played the Jaguars at the end of the year, there were probably five people watching that game.

Maybe you were one of them, Dan.

But, but, but if you go back and you like, look at it, like, he actually looked really good in that game, you know?

And so,

you know, I could see where he could look at that and say, all right, like I know how people are going to look at me now.

I know what my legacy is.

I have some control over that.

I would much rather write a new ending to this story.

You know, we'll see what happens.

You know,

I also think, you know, separate from that, that if he were completely happy with the options he had in front of him, the Steelers and the Giants,

then I don't think the Vikings would have gotten involved the way they did.

I think the Vikings' involvement was sort of Aaron

looking for potentially another option that might be out there.

Yeah,

I also think about the end of that season two weeks later, where he looks like a brittle old man against the Bills.

And there's two sides of it now, and it's almost like you got to manage expectations.

Like you're just not going to get the old guy anymore.

You're going to get the Rodgers.

That's a little bit up and down.

Let's pivot here, Albert.

You also talked about Travis Hunter

and how at Colorado, they really, you know, they put a lot of effort into how do we make this work and

where he spends his time and preparation during the week and how that perhaps would translate to the NFL.

That feels like another situation where you better, wherever he ends up going,

go to a place that's

run well, that has a coaching staff, that has a defined plan,

because I could see that thing going side going sideways.

On the flip side, man, what an exciting, dynamic talent to add to your organization if you could make it work.

I mean, dude, I can't think of a guy that I'm more excited to talk about down the stretch.

You know what I mean?

Like, and to kind of look at down the stretch.

And,

you know, I think it's just, it's fascinating because, like, if you, if you,

I had, I had, I, I, when I went and did my initial, like, my initial round of phone calls to kind of like gauge the draft class before the combine.

I like to do that to try to like just get a better handle on it.

The comps I got on him were

the three receiver comps I got were Stefan Diggs, Garrett Wilson, and Devontae Smith.

And then the defensive comp I got was Darius Slay, which is insane.

If you think about this is the same guy.

You know what I mean?

Wow.

So, I mean, the cool thing about it, though, I think if you're the Giants or the Browns or the Patriots and you're thinking about taking him that high

is like your fear when you're using a pick that in that range is obviously that you're going to strike out and you're going to invest all this time into a guy and it's not going to work out.

It's almost like you get multiple cracks at getting this right.

You know what I mean?

Like it's almost like it's going to be much harder to be wrong about this.

Now, he may not be what you hope he is, which is like a guy who can do everything, right?

But it feels like the floor is raised way up because you're going to get multiple cracks at getting this one right.

And to pull off what he pulled off, like I think this is the part that like people don't talk enough about.

I mean, you don't even have to ask the football character question with him, right?

You know what I mean?

Like, because to take, to do what he did at Colorado, like the amount of like

conditioning, mental focus, competitiveness, love for football, like, you have to have that stuff off the charts to pull off what he pulled off.

You know what I mean?

Like, so

I think this is going to be a really fun one to watch.

And so the listeners out there know, like what you referenced, Dan, was the way they used him at Colorado, because I don't think the question is game day so much as it is how do you get him ready if he is going to play both ways.

They had him do most of his meeting and practice time on defense because they felt like if you're going to, because you're dealing with so much game plan specific stuff on defense and you have to see what the opponent is doing on defense more so than you do on offense.

You know, they spent most of the time getting him ready to play corner.

And then on offense, like it was basically, we're going to build in a ton of packages for you where we can use you different ways.

And then we're going to, if you need it, signal in routes to you from the sideline.

So

they gave him some help and just kind of like shortening some of the learning curve there during the week because he wasn't in meetings and practice nearly to the degree he was on defense.

And I.

you know,

when I dug that stuff out and found that out, I was like, wait, so like, this guy did this in the Big 12 at Colorado, won the Balitnukoff Award, and is being compared to Garrett Wilson, Devontae Smith, and Stefan Diggs without practicing or meeting much.

So it's just like, you think about some of the dynamics at work there, and it's really, it's really interesting.

I can't, I can't wait to see what becomes of him.

And I think, too, I think he's coming into the NFL at the perfect time when you look at teams who have had recent success.

Like I remember talking to the Panthers coaching staff before spring ball and it's like, what is your offense going to look like?

And the answer was, I don't know.

The players are going to tell me what my offense looks like.

Or the Lions, when they drafted those defensive backs and talking to Dan Campbell before the season started, what's the defense going to look like?

I don't know.

We're going to see them out on the practice field and we're going to see what happens.

Let's say the Giants take him at three.

You have the luxury of spring ball and even probably part of training camp to say, okay, he fits more into this team, into this organization as a natural corner.

So that's that's what we're going to major in.

And then every now and then, we'll sprinkle him in an offense or the complete reverse of that.

And I think he would probably be more valuable offensively to certain teams, defensively to certain teams.

But I think that's the beauty of the NFL now, where it's less rigid, it's less my standard, my goals, all that kind of stuff.

It's more like, let's see what he does.

And we have a little bit of runway here to figure it out.

Last question.

And check out Albert's column where he gets into all these topics in depth.

But we want to talk about the Texans because a lot of eyebrows went up when they traded Laramie Tunsell.

This is a team that a lot of people looked at their offensive line as a major reason why things went sideways.

And some interesting things about D'Mico Ryans and what he saw.

Like, he's a guy, Albert, that is very happy with the status of the defense and the direction of the defense.

But there were some issues beyond just ability that were on his radar on the offensive side.

Can we talk about that a little bit?

Yeah, so like it really,

you know, I think he's got like a being an X player and obviously being part of like a really strong culture in San Francisco.

I think what D'Amico, I think D'Amico had a really like defined vision of the culture that he wanted.

And I think over the last few years, they've established that on defense and like it's exactly where they want it.

And while they've been productive on offense, they didn't really get it to the same level, and they haven't been able to get it to the same level, which is part of why Bobby Slowick is gone and Nick Cayley's coming in as the offensive coordinator now.

And a huge part of that was the offensive line room got a little toxic last year.

And their logic in trading Laramie Tunsil, you can argue whether it was the right thing or the wrong thing, but their logic on it was,

well, this room needs to be cleaned out and we need to

just sort of start over in the offensive line room from a culture standpoint.

And while Laramie Tunsil's a great player,

he was never going to be that guy that was going to be kind of the leader of something like that.

He's not the first one in, the last one out.

And I think, you know, like when they looked at it, it was like, we can either sell high now and get a lot of assets back for him, or

we can have him for this year and then we're not going to extend him.

And we're right back here next year and he's a year older and maybe,

you know, like, like then what do we do?

You know, so I think it was like a recognition recognition that the offensive line room needed work and that they weren't going to extend him.

And so it was sort of getting ahead of that.

And I mean, look, like now they're taking multiple cracks at it, right?

Like Blake Fisher is a guy they drafted out of Notre Dame in the second round, I believe, last year.

He's a tackle.

They bring in Trent Brown and

Cam Robinson, neither of whom are like by any stretch, like great workers either, but they're also not being asked to be the torch bearers in that room, right?

And they're going to try to figure it out.

And, you know,

I think

I respect having the stomach to do something like that, you know, because that's a hard thing to do.

And on the flip side of it, look, like, I know what Adam Peters looks at and sees there is like, well, Trent Williams wasn't exactly a Boy Scout in Washington, right?

Right.

And then we traded for him in San Francisco and plugged him into the right culture.

And what's he been the last six years?

The best tackle in football.

You know what I mean?

So like on one side, I think you see where Dan Quinn and his group have, like, they feel like they've already established the culture they need, and Laramie Tunsel can't just be a piece.

Whereas in Houston, they saw something they needed to fix and had a hard time envisioning Laramie Tunsel being the leader of fixing all of that.

Fair enough.

Hey, you know, your partner, Connor?

Yeah.

He stirred up a hornet's nest on the show last week by coming after Nirvana.

So I'll ask you, Grateful Dead.

He used to

only see one artist at their peak, the dead versus Nirvana.

Where does Albert Breer come down?

I mean, Nirvana, because I think I'm around the same age as you, Dan.

And kids of, and that lost generation that Connor is a part of has no concept of what Nirvana was.

Lost generation?

Nirvana, Nirvana is like, see, Nirvana is like something like you sort of had to be there.

Like, I think I was, they were, their peak was what, 91, right?

So I was 11.

I think Connor was still in diapers then.

And

three, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So, it depends on like the level of potty training you were getting, I guess, whether or not you were in diapers, right?

Wow, this is even there's nothing more dismissive, Connor, than to get hit with

you had to be there, little boy.

But isn't it true, though, Dan?

Like, because it was so short.

But it's not like Connor was there for like the Jerry Girls.

Nirvana was like, you know, Nirvana.

No, but Nirvana was like this, and especially if you were like, I was 11 years old in 91, right?

So, like, Nirvana to me was like this comet that came across the sky.

And like, if you didn't see it, then while it was going across the sky, it's hard to describe it.

It was, I would rather see Nirvana because it was so,

and again, like, that's probably just my age, right?

Like, is that like I was right in that wheelhouse of being that age when that happened?

When you said, uh, uh, we have lots of, we have, Dan, we have lots of age jokes on our, you know, on our podcast, to be fair.

This is just sort of revenge because usually I'm on the wrong end of shows.

And we have Sessler, who's on vacation right now, who's in his late to 70s, I think, that we had a lot of fun with that as well.

So I guess that's...

He carries himself like a man of 90.

So, Connor, there you go.

That was your colleague Albert's take that you just, you just, you weren't there.

You can't understand.

So now it makes more sense to me.

I mean, that's what everybody says about me covering football anyway.

So, but it's, it's funny when you said Connor and Hornet's Nest, Albert's eyes lit up because

coming off the commanders discussion, I think he caught some shrapnel for my anti-commanders take.

This was coming off of him catching shrapnel for my anti-buccaneers take a couple years ago, coming off some shrapnel from like the Texans take like eight years ago.

You know what the problem is though?

Is like we put out those videos, the little clips of our podcast, and it's like, you know, some idiot is like posting like the MMQB podcast hates the commanders.

And all they see they no one hits play on the video they just see the picture of me like so

our wonderful producer Justin and I have conversations about our YouTube feed where it's like Dan hates T.

Higgins like a big picture of me like doing double birds at the Bengals logo

all right Albert we appreciate the time buddy and yes check out all the great stuff Rear does with SI, including the podcast with Connor.

Thank you, buddy.

Appreciate you.

All right.

Thanks, guys.

Anytime you need me, let me know.

There he goes.

All right.

Pivot, how is your bracket doing?

Busted already?

Yeah.

Yeah, St.

John's.

Guys,

come on.

Killing me.

But that's okay.

Because on Underdog, you don't need the perfect bracket to win big.

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The Syracuse in the dance this year.

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Give me some more Q's legends.

Ronnie Cycley?

Oh, who's the short white dude?

Balding-ish.

Short white dude, Baldinging-ish.

Jerry McNamara,

Jerry McNamara from Scranton, Pennsylvania.

Wow.

Hell yeah.

Scranton Legend, Jerry McNamara.

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audience only.

Yeah, I need, now that St.

John's is out and I was really into them and I was tracking them throughout the winter,

this is perfect for me because I need a way back into giving a shit about March Madness because I do need that pathway.

So

underdog, once again, saving the day for the old Zeuser.

Similarly, all of my pet projects are out

and I tend to gravitate towards teams, much like my Minot State dynasty of old when I was on.

My Not, Minot.

Yeah, when I was on PS3, I had this fantasy of like Grand Canyon University, for example, I thought was

like Phoenix Online University.

And I just loved the idea of this online university just finding like 11 guys to come together and play basketball.

They practice near the Grand Canyon or something like that.

Right, like they practice at the bottom of the Grand Canyon.

They have this amazing home court advantage.

You're saying you like the underdogs, Connor.

Oh, oh, he's done it again.

The mock madness, baby.

All right, before we say goodbye, let's check in with our favorite Israeli NFL insider,

Dav Kleinman.

If you're a fan of this show, you know, we love our Dav

content, whoever it's coming from, wherever it's coming from.

We've noticed and clocked that he has some new sells on his tweets that...

just bring us a lot of entertainment.

I don't know if anybody else is entertained by it, but he the call is.

Here's some just from the last couple of days.

Let's start with,

and the whole key is what the first word is before the colon.

Here we go.

Awful colon.

Jamar Chase and D.

Hagens are racing their new $250,000 Lamborghinis all over Miami, potentially putting many civilians' lives at risk.

Triple emoji of a man that's very concerned.

What do you grade this on the Dobb scale of greatness,

Connor?

We went from like praising 24-time accused

criminal Deshaun Watson to being like, oh, how awful is this that they went like 70 miles an hour on the Miami Thruway?

Like, this is

have you ever been to Miami during drive-time traffic?

Do you know how hard it is to get your car above 80 miles an hour?

They're not going to kill anybody.

Relax.

They're even showing in the videos that accompany this, they're like sitting in not standstill traffic, but they're not going anywhere.

All right, next one.

oh i love this one uh-oh colon patrick mahomes looks to be in the best shape of his career as fans speculate his quote dad bod is gone the rest of the league is in trouble next season triple emoji of the uh the man with his mouth open like uh uh the kid from home alone uh what do you grade this on the dob scale for me this is almost a 10 out of 10 with a photo of like a grinning mahomes in tight pants on the golf course it is and and what we're really seeing from Mahomes here

is something that I used to struggle with too, is if the wind hits you in one of those dry-fit shirts the right way, you look like the guy in the cover of those super, the romance novels at the supermarket.

And then if it hits you the wrong way, you look like a sumo wrestler.

Yeah, it's like, oh, man titties alert.

Yeah.

So Mahomes had a good

day.

I don't think the dad bod thing with him is ridiculous, by the way, but that's another argument for another day.

Anyway, 10 out of 10.

All right, next.

Oh, here we go.

Dog,

D-A-W-G.

Colin, DK Metcalf, is locked in this offseason, already working out in Steelers gear.

Metcalf has fully embraced the Pittsburgh lifestyle.

What, working out?

What does that even mean?

What is the Pittsburgh?

I'm going to give this one a 4 out of 10.

Dav could do better.

Israel weeps.

And I just want to just add, because there's no other time to talk about it.

Last week, clips of him going viral playing basketball surfaced.

DK Metcalf.

Were you aware of this?

I think I might have seen that quickly.

He was playing in a pickup game and everyone's like, can you believe this?

And I was like, yes, he is a professional athlete.

His job is to be in incredible shape and to be good at sports.

If he sucked at basketball, he would have sucked at football.

And, you know, with a couple different, you know, outliers here, but if you're good at sports, you're supposed to be good at sports.

Why are we surprised when J.J.

Watt can hit a softball or like Odell Beckham is good at golf?

Like you are.

But was it more about like, why is he risking an ACL injury on the court?

No, no, no.

It's like, no, the clip was DK Metcalf could totally play in the NBA.

And in the clip, he is the tallest person by a country mile and looks to be playing against,

you know, just your hobbyists, your weekend five-on-five guys.

So this is,

it's not like he's doing something exceptional and he should be destroying everybody else in that gym.

All All right.

And finally, one more, as you alluded to earlier.

I don't know what's going on in Tel Aviv right now with Dav and Deshaun Watson, but they are in cahoots.

Elite colon, Browns quarterback, Deshaun Watson, is, quote, determined to make a comeback as he recovers from his second Achilles tear.

Cleveland went 9-10 with Watson as QB1.

This is this, which is funny.

This is the second

tweet in four days from Dav where he is just gassing up Deshaun Watson at the highest levels imaginable.

Yeah.

Concerning Colin, operator of Israeli Twitter accounts, seems to have brainbleed.

Very fun.

This has to be.

I mean, we've debated this before, but it's almost like he knows

or they know that someone is on to them and they have, I would like to think, embraced the highest art form here.

Like, I think they are at peak, like

2014 Twitter, where it was, you know, you're, you're, you have people totally befuddled as to whether you're serious or not, and you are just a comedic mastermind.

That is what I choose to believe at this point.

And finally, before we say goodbye, Connor, it's premiere week over on patreon.com/slash heed the call.

Hit it, Justin.

It came from the subreddit.

Nicely done, Justin.

Yes, it will premiere on Friday

in place of the Friday fun show this week.

So be on the lookout for that as

I, with the help of Justin

and occasional drop-ins from people like Connor and Mark and anyone else in the show's orbit,

we looked into what people are talking about over on Reddit, the hate the call subreddit,

both the positive and the negative, and also, you know, other places in social media where the show is discussed.

It's a real navel-gazing look at our world, and it happens once a month on the Patreon starting on Friday.

Connor, if you ever want to settle any scores with people who cross you, which I know is a part of your DNA, and I love it about you, yeah, you jump on anytime you want on it came from the subreddit.

I was going to say, book me for like the first four because I have comment, you know, I have posts on that thing that have just been eating me alive for the last four months.

Maybe we'll have a, Justin, maybe we could have just a monthly segment where we throw it to Connor to get after something or somebody.

That could work.

Yeah, it should.

It checks a box for everybody.

All right.

Good stuff.

Thank you, everybody, for joining us.

We'll be back again later in the week.

We did it once at the tail end of the regular season.

It was a lot of fun where it was Dan, Connor, and then our friends from the athletic, Michael Sean Dugar and Jordan Rodrigue.

We'll be back as a force of them again on Thursday's show.

So make sure you are there for...

That.

All right.

Connor, anything to add before we say goodbye?

It was wonderful today.

It was like

when you introduce your college friends to your high school friends, having Albert come over.

It was a good time.

Yes, that's very well said.

And thank you, yes, to Albert Breer for joining us.

All right.

Until next time, heat the call.

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