Proposed NFL Rule Changes (RULE CHANGE!) and More NFL News

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the heed the call podcast

proposes one rule change

no rules at all

rules

hello and welcome to heed the call dan hands is here with mark sessler and connor or and yeah

rules changing it's that time of year.

And I just want to say,

I just want to say thank you.

Thank you so much to the Green Bay Packers.

Thank you for saying what needed to be said.

Thank you so much, Mr.

Fuck, for saying what needed to be said.

Thank you for your brave stance,

for standing alone to fight for

what many,

no matter how popular it might be, to the very vocal minority.

All those fake tough guys out there.

Thank you for your concise,

well-constructed, logical proposal to ban the odious tush-push.

Rule 12, section 1,

proposed amendment.

No offensive player may, immediately at the snap, push or throw his body against a teammate who is lined up directly behind the snapper and receive the snap to aid him in an attempt to gain yardage.

That is a play,

a plague

that must be eradicated.

It is the butt rock

of red zone play calls,

the chocolate starfish and the hot dog-flavored water of goal line strategy.

Yeah!

A boring, joyless, lug-headed, dangerous,

and unappealing brand of pro football shot straight out of the Great Depression.

So I thank you, Green Bay Packers, for your heroism.

What do you got?

Or?

This is horseshit.

You can't.

What do you got?

Okay, if you're going to do this.

Okay.

If you're going to do this, if you're going to ban the tush push, you have to

go down the list of all the teams who have done it last year and proportionately award those teams with draft pick compensation because

the Eagles figured out a way to break the system.

They looked at all the pieces that they had.

We have big offensive linemen.

We have a quarterback with a wider, lower body that's perfectly apportioned for this.

And then we bring in these rugby experts.

We consult their offensive line coach and we figure out something that's completely and totally within the rules.

Banning the tush push at this point is like when the Robinhood app was like, sorry, GameStop people, you actually can't have that money, even though you figured out a perfectly legal way to game the system.

Go eat a bag of sausage.

Like you can't tell somebody to do that.

And you can't just tell the Eagles that you can't do it without rewarding them for breaking the system.

Give them the first round.

You know what their their reward was?

What?

Super Bowl 59.

Okay.

How about that?

Is that enough?

Is the Lombardi trophy enough?

And this is not,

I know all these Eagles fans out here are thinking, oh, here he goes again.

It's not about the Eagles specifically, but the other thing that bothers me, and Sessler's another one of these guys, hey, if you don't like it, stop it.

Oh,

like that, that like proto-caveman, like bully, Fred Durst type shit.

Like, I don't need it.

How about we put the best product product on the field and use strategy again?

Yeah, rolling, rolling, rolling.

I trust this is not a bit, although it's veering in that direction.

It is not a bit.

This is not a bit at all.

I think it is a, like, you want to talk about a dangerous trend.

That a team goes out and learns how to do something that other teams can't do.

And so here comes...

Right, here comes the Green Bay Packers writing one of the most disgraceful paragraphs paragraphs written by any football team ever.

You look weak, and that's my issue with it.

I would be, if I'm a Packers fan, I hate this.

I don't want my team going and complaining about this in mid-March.

Why?

Because they look weak or they look

at the 60s.

This is the type of stuff I'm talking about.

They're trying to make it a better sport for all of us.

I'm proposing another rule.

I'm the Packers.

Running backs can't be bigger than 6'2, 246 pounds.

Listen to this hysteria.

That means that

Derrick Henry can't be on the field anymore.

Now it sounds a lot like our real political spectrum where using hysteria and to get people in a tizzy to take their eyes off the ball, what we're really talking about here.

And yes, I said it dangerous and it doesn't make me a wimp for saying that.

Look at the actual strategy, the play, and it's working for Jalen Hurts because he could.

Goddamn leg press like 10,000 pounds.

But when you are taking a man and you are pushing him from behind with all your force, and then a bunch of beasts from the other direction are going at him the other way.

Did anybody see what happened to Marty and not another teen movie when Captain America threw the ball to him in the end zone?

Like, is that where we want this to end?

Just because Jalen Hurts's body didn't break in half?

Like, is our goal is to wait until that happens and then we change the rule?

Is that the goal here?

To wait until a man is split in half and his innards are in the end zone and then we change it.

I am here to save lives, Sestuck.

It's not a bit.

It's not a manufactured joke.

It's real.

I don't think it's even top 25 of dangerous things that occur during a pro football game.

I guess like, what are you going to want to ban next?

Like,

I cannot get on board with this in any of this production.

I don't think it will pass.

I think it would be a nightmare because you're just now.

putting yourself down.

It's like the, and granted, it's a horrible analogy, but it's like the First Amendment slippery slope where it's like, well, if you can't say that, then what are you going to tell people they can't say?

This is all within the rule book.

It's perfectly aligned with personnel.

This is part and parcel with what the Eagles were building.

It's not like they built it with the idea of running the tush-push, but it's like, hey, we have all these disjointed parts, and here's the perfect play.

If you're going to do that, then you have to ban like jet sweep if you're the Rams, or you have to ban like anything else that makes anyone else's offense work.

I see, that's the type of handmaid's tail hysteria I'm talking about.

This is just one play in the playbook that I I believe it's not a visually appealing exciting play

and subjective that that's entirely tell me that it lights you up on the inside when they when anyone runs that play that well what that's what you're looking for what kind of like what kind of football players and teams attract me like I like power run I like teams that maul people on the ground it is exactly what's attractive to me and I don't I'm not buying the dangerous element to it compared to what happens on any given play.

What's the play that you love the most, probably, in the history of our podcast, Mark?

The one that you have fought for, that you believe you deserve more credit for, you believe you deserve sandwiches for?

It is those very Philadelphia Eagles two-point conversion, I believe it was, or I don't know if it was a touchdown, but the Philly special.

And that was

inventive, and that was ingenious, and that was legendary.

And now we've gone from the Philly special to this.

We're going the wrong way in society in a lot of ways right now, all right.

Here's my attempt to walk across the aisle.

Dan, we can ban the tush push if more than 75% of the league can run it successfully with regularity, because then it becomes a situation where teams are just running it.

You know, if you, if you have second and three, you're just running it three times or whatever it is, right?

And that's boring.

That's unattractive.

But right now, there's only like two teams in the NFL that can kick ass with it.

So I'm sorry.

Go, like, you have to deal with it.

You know?

I'm just talking about, I'm thinking about Marty from not another teen movie.

Yeah, Jalen Hurts can do it.

But wait until Brock Purdy tries to do it in the NFC divisional playoffs, and there's innards all over the field.

It's going to be blood on your hands, boys.

In total fairness to you, when the Eagles made it to the Super Bowl against the Chiefs the last time, I tried to report out a story on the dangers of the tush push, and I called multiple offensive linemen and quarterbacks, and they were all like universally like, no this isn't a dangerous play but I was thinking the same thing we'll cut that out in the post but but but I was thinking the same thing as you so I don't want you to think that you know I'm not attacking the idea behind it but my my opinion on it has been changed all right I just had to get that off my chest and it's okay it's okay in this in this country

to agree to disagree without hating each other There is nuance, I understand.

I just strongly feel.

And we'll talk about the Eagles a little bit later in a different context.

Again, to underline, Ceci, this isn't an anti-Eagles take by Zuzer.

I just hate the play.

And I know I'm not alone.

And I'm very curious.

My last point, Mark.

I'm very curious if this comes closer to passing or passes outright.

And to my point about the heroism of the Packers, it does take some guts, even though it makes them look weak, to be the ones to stand up to say what everybody's saying at the stake dinners at Prime and all the other league events, there's a lot of people people that would be behind this or they probably wouldn't do this.

So I'm curious how it pans out.

My dream,

and it's probably fantastical and won't occur, is that it gets whacked 31 to 1.

You know, the Raiders will vote, they will abstain or whatever.

It's only the Raiders.

It's like, whatever the vote is, it's like, and the Raiders abstain, or they go, whatever the opposite is.

Mark Davis was at P.F.

Chang's.

But if you want to, like, before we transition, Mark, if you want to, like, last little thing on this, the fact that I stood up along with the Packers, kind of that's a level of bravery for the old Zoozer, too.

If you think about it, like, from that perspective, yeah, I think this is one of the reasons that, um,

well, let's lay it out this way: that Dave O'Sweeney sent you a football for your service to the students of that university.

Yes, well, and it's and also like so many of the service works that you do behind the scenes that we don't hear about.

So, I'm on board with that aspect of it.

Just the hundreds of hours that you give back to the community.

Yeah.

Hey, guys, we've got a lot to get to today.

That's just the start.

That's just the appetizer.

We're going to do kind of a fun show just rolling through a bunch of stuff that's kind of in the air of the NFL during this kind of a weird Connor

time of the year in the NFL.

It's that it's right after the week of free agency, and it's still a little too early to get crazy about the draft.

Although, of course, some people do, but for the regular folk,

still feels a little premature.

So now you're just kind of hanging out there, you know,

wondering, like,

you know, who's going to be the fourth wide receiver for the Cowboys?

And, you know, sometimes the juice isn't worth a squeeze for some of these conversations.

So we're going to try to find some fun stuff to talk about.

If you follow the league, they're like sine waves, and this is every year.

It's where all the cogent, sort of sensible draft analysis that we've done throughout the college football season, It ends right here, and then the upcurve starts where by mid-April, people just start throwing out the most wild shit.

And then on draft day, it all comes back to the understanding that we had in December.

And it's just this month of mania or boredom or whatever you want to call it that just skews everything.

I think Justin got caught in the crosshairs with that.

Justin, can you jump in a second, bud?

Great figure.

By the way, are you pro or anti-tush push?

I am anti-banning the tush-push.

All right, we'll take that out and post it.

No, Connor's point about

if

everyone could do it, it would be one thing.

If the Eagles perfected it, then they should be allowed to run it.

So that's how I feel.

Hey,

you ran into something draft-related with a little hype bunny project of yours, right?

Do you have that clip by any chance?

Yeah, you know, if you listen to the Music City Audible podcast that I host on the side, which, you know,

some of our listeners are aware of, you will know that I am a massive Cam Ward fan.

I can't shut up about Cam Ward on that podcast.

I think the Titans need to take him.

And I put out a video on YouTube the other day comparing him to Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Jordan Love, just as prospects, not like his NFL superstars.

And

somebody in ESPN Radio in Nashville, Jared Stillman, saw the thumbnail I posted on Twitter and had this to say on the radio.

You got Stillman.

I didn't watch the video, but Justin Graver, at Titans Film Room on Twitter, he made a YouTube video, and all I saw was kind of the preview of the video.

And the YouTube video says,

the perfect QB prospect.

Question mark.

And it has a picture that is a split right down the middle.

On the left side of the picture.

is the left side of Patrick Mahomes face.

On the right side of the picture, again, split right down the middle is a picture of camporn

here we go here we go

listen I now I'm gonna stand up for my producer who I love and he's a member of this family and you and you say something against the member of this family you go to war with all of us don't ever miss me stillman with the I didn't watch the video like man you're a broadcaster bro like if you're going to be critical of someone's analysis you cannot.

You cannot go full, just solely off a screen grab on a YouTube video.

So, just, you know, a little constructive criticism.

Let's be fair.

I think, like, we all, you know, have had our articles in the past picked up by like drive time radio.

And in some cases, they'll ask you to come on, but often they don't.

And they'll just, like, in this case, this guy goes off on a massive diatribe.

And

you made a really good point there, Justin, that you put a question mark at the end of that burning, screaming headline.

And you also, I think, know how you're a skilled social media maven, and you know what's going to get responses.

And they brought, they basically just fell hook line and sinker for your

strategy here.

Well, everything but clicking the actual link and giving him the view.

That's still the part that bothers me the most.

It's like, I picked up this book called Catcher in the Rye, and there's a horse on it, and I hate horses.

It's just

a baseball book.

Click on

the video.

How much longer could it possibly take?

Damn, Connor, you nailed

just the sound and cadence of Jared Stillman's voice there.

Sorry.

Sorry, Jared Stillman.

Stillman, get Stillman.

All right.

Let's do some news.

We got your back, Justin.

Always.

Dolphins fans and Zach Wilson here at the facility just signing the contract.

Super excited to be here.

Can't wait to get to work.

Go Finns.

Did a good job.

Another example of just get out of your own way and just make it clean and simple.

Yeah, I guess I don't know if this is a newer thing, but does everyone do it now?

Is it no matter what, you do the introduction social?

Because

he's their number two quarterback.

I don't know.

I feel like five years ago, the backup quarterback wasn't doing the

welcome fans to our life together.

Well, the social media teams have lost all sense of self-control.

He still looks the part, man.

And I guess that's part of it, too.

Like, he still looks like he could be in a Hollywood movie as a star quarterback, but.

Or as a 14-year-old.

Yeah.

He desperately needs to do the,

you know, some guys

get better looking as they grow older, like everyone here, for instance.

True.

Not actually, but he looks like a guy, classic candidate to get better looking.

Like grow a beard if it ever happens,

age up up the face a little bit, and ooh la la.

Kind of a la Brad Pitt, a little pitying.

Yep, get it.

I'd get a go bushy beard and like go kind of woodsman.

Mm-hmm.

I like that.

All right.

So, Zach Wilson,

let's follow the path here.

On our previous show, it was the Sam Darnold welcome

to Seattle video that we played, okay?

Who was replaced in New York by Zach Wilson,

who was replaced in New York by Aaron Rodgers.

Got there, and here we are.

We're talking about Rodgers again.

Here is the pill raiser that the Vikings have rejected multiple trade calls on J.J.

McCarthy, telling other teams they're moving forward with him as their quarterback.

Sources say the team plans to add a veteran, but they are not pursuing Aaron Rodgers at this time.

McCarthy now enters the offseason as the QB1.

Okay.

However, there's some other reporting out there that doesn't quite paint the same picture.

Here's Diana Rossini, who reports

there's no quote in or quote out on Aaron Rodgers from Minnesota.

They're simply not making a decision at this time.

Now we wait to see what Rodgers wants to do.

Connor, let's decode this one a little bit because

it doesn't seem to me, and I think Racini's closer to it on this, that the Vikings necessarily have no intention of having Aaron Rodgers on their team.

But I feel like from their perspective, this makes sense to me, right?

If he wants to go sign with the Giants or the Steelers, we can live with it.

But

if he starts hanging out there and J.J.

McCarthy looks bad in the spring or gets hurt, maybe we'll do business.

They're comfortable losing out on him.

but it doesn't mean they're out on him.

Yeah, I think that's why everyone's saying, oh, these two people are reporting different things.

It's the same thing.

And I think if you extrapolate Tom's tweet, which I think was carefully worded, and Diana's tweet, which is carefully worded.

How is this being leaked, right?

The Vikings, we rejected multiple trade proposals for this guy.

You're trying to bolster his confidence.

You're trying to boost him up.

Same thing with Diana, where it's like, okay, JJ McCarthy is QB1 right now heading into the spring.

And so I think everybody's saying the same thing.

It's just, if you screw this up, then we're going to go get Aaron Rodgers.

But at this point, they're trying to gas up J.J.

McCarthy.

They're trying to say, wow, hey, we didn't trade you, bro.

Like, we didn't sign Aaron Rodgers.

They're giving him the keys to it to see how he acts.

They're not going to destroy his confidence right now.

But if he looks bad in the spring, Hell yeah, they're going to go get Aaron Rodgers if he's still around.

Yeah, I think you lost a year of evaluation on J.J.

McCarthy.

It's still largely a mystery what he is.

I think they genuinely like him the person.

I think they really, really do.

And I think all things being equal, you want to roll with a good young rookie or second-year quarterback who can give you that rookie quarterback contract.

It just gives you more time to find out what he is.

And it's kind of like, you know, you're at the, like, when you were in sixth grade at the dance and you're like, there's the one like girl you want to dance with.

And like, you have to build up your courage and act like you don't care.

And you're on one side of the gymnasium and she's on the other.

And that's Aaron Rodgers and the Vikings.

Maybe they dance together in the end.

Maybe they don't.

But there's other options.

I mean, I think they're in a great situation, actually.

They're in a great situation because I think you've got a young quarterback that you can develop with one of the best coaches in the league to do that.

Or maybe you get Aaron Rodgers.

when he's ready because I don't get the sense Aaron Rodgers is doing any he's is he working out right now is he is he plugged in it's like we're gonna have to go through the Aaron Rodgers drama and I think if he could pick a team it would would be the Vikings ultimately.

Yeah.

And there's also reporting out there that Aaron Rodgers is in no rush to make a decision.

And I think, again, you kind of put the pieces of the puzzle together.

And there's, I don't think he wants to play for the Giants or the Steelers.

I think he sees those as like suboptimal and a way more likely scenario that his career ends and on kind of a down note.

And I wonder, again, the Vikings are sniffing this out.

And I wonder if they're like, if Rodgers is like, I'm just going to wait this out and wait for a situation where I have a chance to actually go out on top.

And if the Vikings don't provide that, maybe like we always talk about somebody gets hurt in the summer during workouts or whatever, and all of a sudden there's a job opportunity with a contender.

It would not surprise me if Rodgers is going to take play the long game here rather than sign with two kind of teams going nowhere and the Steelers and Giants with all due respect.

And as annoyed as we could be with Aaron Rodgers, and

the media process of it is annoying.

I think I texted, we got to shoot this guy into the sun at some point.

Like, isn't he doing the smart thing?

Like,

I totally agree with what he's doing.

Like, find, don't jump onto the wrong team.

And then, you know, you find out you could have gone somewhere else.

I do think, though, ultimately, and I'm curious what he told the Steelers, because the Steelers behaved like a team that thought that they had him in their back pocket unless they have something going on with Kirk Cousins, too.

But

I think I might be the only one on this show that thinks that the Vikings are making a mistake by not signing him right now.

I think you are.

Yeah.

And I think the reason for it.

You want to do a nine-minute monologue like me?

You can if you want.

Go ahead.

I don't.

I don't want to fight.

I don't want to fight.

I love everybody here.

I think for a few reasons.

One, you have to put the sledgehammer down on the QB landscape and you have to accumulate not only to help yourself, but to hurt other people.

Two, I think the rookie quarterback thing is winning on the rookie quarterback contract is such a dumb myth.

And we can extrapolate that out if we care to.

But the third thing, too, is that allow J.J.

McCarthy to kick his ass in spring training and then sit Aaron Rodgers on the bench.

You're Kevin O'Connell.

Everyone wants to play for you.

So it doesn't really matter.

If J.J.

McCarthy does really well and he goes out and does what he's supposed to do in the spring, then Aaron Rodgers is your number two quarterback.

And then you trade him sometime in August or September.

And J.J.

McCarthy is so much more confident because he just put it on the

tricky person to do that.

I think it's logical, but you're also illogical in the sense that you do have a young kid that you're gassing up, and then all of a sudden you bring in one of the most famous quarterbacks who's ever lived and saying, Okay, now beat him out, then we'll believe in you.

And I don't know that, I don't know if that sends a great message in terms of your faith in the kid to do that.

And won't you get Aaron Rodgers becoming more ornery and more tedious verbally as that goes along?

See, it's interesting to me.

So that's a part of it, too.

And

I'm going to sound like a guest on Joe Rogan at this point, but I promise I'm not.

I don't think that the

in-building perception of him matches up with how we feel.

And I think like a lot of the exit interviews I did with the Jets last year were people who were kind of blown away with him, the persona, the way that he acts in the facility, the way that he practices all that stuff.

Certainly some people that were annoyed, but not to the point where like you almost, you could say it about anybody, right?

You could say that about any star player.

And so I think that I just think it's a net benefit because I don't know

what's the worst that could happen that you lose a year of J.J.

McCarthy.

But again, I don't, this winning on a quarterback rookie contract thing is so dumb.

Like

what's the move that you can't do otherwise?

Like bring in Khalil Mack like the Bears did?

That's a once-in-a-lifetime thing that's going to happen.

Like when the Bengals went to the Super Bowl at Joe Burrow, their huge off-season was Trey Hendrickson at $15 million a year, which was a ridiculous bargain at the time.

Riley Reef and Shidobia Woozy.

Any team can do that with a quarterback making $9 million or $50 million.

So I don't know.

And if he's a kid that's going to get his confidence dinged by Aaron Rodgers being there, isn't he going to get it dinged in the third quarter when the Lions are blitzing and he's banged up a little bit and he doesn't feel good?

Yeah, I mean, I get that too.

I think Rodgers, having lived through it myself the last two years, he's such an all-consuming force.

It changes.

It would change everything around that team.

That's the other part of it.

And you could say, and the right organization with the right leadership can navigate that.

And that's fair too.

If you don't have the right leadership, you can't handle it.

So maybe I walk back my own final point on that.

Like they had the perfect guy to pair with JJ.

and Sam Darnold, and they had the perfect guy before that in Kirk Cousins.

This is not the perfect guy metaphysically and kind of what it means for the whole team.

That's just my thing.

I think it's a difficult figure to insert into what is a really well-run roster right now.

Last thing on Rodgers, and we

understand those that say enough on Rodgers, but here's someone that's saying enough with Rodgers.

It's Cam Hayward, who's probably like the same thing.

putting the puzzle together.

He's like, well, this guy wanted to be my quarterback.

He'd already be my quarterback.

So why am I being dragged along on the process here along with everyone at Steelers Nation?

Here's what he had to say on a podcast this week.

So, if they called you and were like, we need you to follow him into the darkness for a couple days, he says if you come down there with him, he's signing.

Are you going to be off the grid for a little bit, go to the darkness and try to get this guy?

We need you.

You're our best recruiter.

I'm about to get into Darius' sleigh, and it sounds like you recruited him too.

So, we need you to start recruiting.

Get that NIL bag out like you did at Ohio State.

I ain't doing that

darkness treat.

Retreat?

I don't even mean doing any of that crap.

Like,

either you want to be a Pittsburgh Steeler or you don't.

That's simple.

That's the pitch.

Like, if you want me to recruit, that's the recruiting pitch.

You know, Pittsburgh Steelers, if you want to be part of it, so be it.

If you don't,

no skid on my back.

Yeah, and I'm glad we heard it because it doesn't sound quite as inflammatory the way he said it.

But that's a defensive captain to the point of you need the right leadership to handle someone like Rodgers.

Cam Haydward is not starstruck by Aaron Rodgers, and that was on the Not Just Football podcast, by the way.

And Mark, remember Cam Hayward at the, I think it was like a media retreat thing we did at NFL Media where we got to interview him really good on Mike.

And I think that dude, totally independent topic is going to be great in the media after his career is over.

He came up to us.

We had to give what was partly a failed speech about how to construct a podcast to a bunch of Richard Sherman, Cam Hayward, everyone else.

And he came up to us after, and, you know, he's this massive, hulking, front door-shaped door-shaped individual.

But he's like, do you guys have any like ideas on how I could get started?

It's like, well, you're doing great because here we are talking about you.

And I kind of, I love what he said, but I do think that there's one thing.

It's not a Kim Hayward thing, but the Steelers to me, I think this is like pride of the Steelers.

Like, you don't do that.

You don't keep the Steelers waiting.

You don't, you don't.

F up our offseason.

We know who we are and we have for a long time.

You haven't won a playoff game in nearly a decade, nine years, I think it is.

Do you know who you are, Pittsburgh Steelers?

Because he went on to talk about Mason Rudolph being like someone that they could get behind.

Like, that's problematic.

Like, you've got DK Metcalf and George Pickens on your roster.

Like, we get about two weeks into that situation, and we've got other problems.

So, I do think that they're another team that could use Aaron Rodgers.

And if you, are you willing to wait if you're the Steelers, or is there too much pride here?

I just feel like there's a lot of false pride with the Steelers just because they're the Pittsburgh Steelers.

What a difference between them and the Giants' posture right now.

Like, the Giants are like, we'll wait for for you, Aaron.

Go ahead.

Take as much time as you want.

To contextualize where the Giants are as a franchise to potentially be begging for the scraps of the Jets.

That's uncharted territory.

Ad Reed, new sponsor.

Got to love it.

And I love this.

This is Brunt.

Talking about

whatever happened to Gary Cooper, a man's man.

Okay.

Now, this is in the positive context.

Brunt.

I got these.

These are work boots that I got sent to to the house from the fine people at Brunt.

And you want to talk about an instant shot of masculinity.

I put these things on.

First of all, they smell of rich, rich leather and they're heavy.

Like you could kick some ass in these boots.

Now,

are we out there, you know, Mark, with our hands getting them, you know, soiled and blistered as podcasters?

No, but it doesn't mean you can't dress like one of those guys.

You know, so if you want to look cool, you want to look tough, you want to do some work outside,

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sent you, Ceci.

It's a great product.

You know, you're still a man walking around in certain clothing decisions, and it's a striking boot.

It's a striking boot.

And to the manly side of it, like in our profession, you could be up in, sure, there's men up in like the Yellowstone National Park chopping down like massive trees,

but they can't read.

They couldn't read an ad read, but that's where you come in.

And so you've got a different type of masculinity.

I think you went the wrong direction on that.

Some of them.

Some kind of.

I'm saying those men are obviously can be educated and

have well-reasoned takes on society and be sensitive men.

In fact, they might be outworking right now while listening to this show, and those guys are owed an apology.

Mark?

I'd misstep there because I'm not trying to paint the whole group that way, but I'm just saying, you know, sometimes like there are some people that are attracted to like someone that has literally no literate, like no skills of literary awareness at all.

And it's like, it's got a different type of aura to it i will stop speaking now hey mark you'll never misstep in brunt boots no i won't you got to get a little bonus for that

tag on the fly all right back to the news um

cooper cup

he as we mentioned uh signed a deal with the seahawks over the weekend uh what were the contract details on that one can you pull that up for me justin uh and in the three for 45

for 45 which is a nice a nice chunk of change for a receiver uh past the age of 30.

But when you're a former triple crown winner and Super Bowl MVP, you do get that contract on the open market.

Anyway, here's a photo of him.

I like this photo

on Twitter.

X, whatever, Cooper Cup, according to John Boyle, understood the assignment on his first day as a Seahawk, rocking a Pearl Jam shirt from a tour that took place before he was born.

It is a very nice t-shirt,

Pearl Jam.

A great band.

Connor, do you agree?

No, but

this is a slippery slope.

And this, I can already see it.

This is his worst take.

This is worse than his arm Rogers take.

Don't be gun shy.

You know what it is, though?

It's it's not it's not for me.

And the whole Seattle scene is not for me.

Like Nirvana makes me upset to the point where

I would probably get loud in an argument if we were to say like that is a great band.

The Kirk Cobain

fronted outfit, Nirvana?

Correct.

Yeah.

Gets you you so mad that you would fight, like yellow about it.

Whatever, when Rolling Stone does the 500 greatest songs of all time and there's like 11 Nirvana songs in the top 30, it's like we can pump the brakes on that.

This isn't, you know, I mean, this isn't, you know, a tale of two cities here.

You know, there's a couple of things.

I think we got to get you on Throwback podcast in utero.

I think Nirvana might be functionally pound for pound

the most perfect band ever.

I mean, in what they achieved,

the musicality,

the ethics in which they approached the music, the risk-taking,

the commitment to craft and to try to change the system, and they did.

They changed the face of popular music and blew away hair metal when it was at its most vapid and gave us something raw and immediate and brought kind of punk to the mainstream.

And yes, they created, I think, Nirvana, a lot of imitators.

Some would even say, including Kirk O'Bain, that Pearl Jam was an imitator.

I love Pearl Jam, but I think Nirvana,

that's a tough one for me to get on board with, that they're a bad band.

I mean, like, we're all of similar ages to some degree, but like, I was right in that end of high school, early college window when...

Like when Nirvana happened, and I would say you're right, that they're change agents.

Like, they changed the face of music.

And like, they did have that power.

Like, I do side with Connor, though, on like the

some of this like whole movement where I felt like if you if you weren't a huge fan of it, you had no voice.

Like you'd be at a party with like everyone's like in love with these bands to such a degree.

I was like, I know what I like and I don't hate these bands, but they're not doing it for me the way I'm being told.

they should be.

And it's like, and it was like, you just got to go quiet because it's an annoying conversation back in the day with people because they were like obsessed with this grunge rock movement.

And it just wasn't my thing.

We did a

we went on a school field trip in sixth grade to New York City to see the Rockettes, and this kid who sat in the bus in front of me gave me his CD players, Disc Man.

He let me borrow it, and I went through whatever it was at the time.

It might have been their greatest hits, or whatever like a kid in sixth grade is carrying around from the Nirvana discography.

And I was like, this just makes me tired and sad.

So I don't, you know, and granted, these are emotions that you're supposed to feel.

And everyone could say the Grateful Dead sucks.

And I understand your, I totally understand your take on that too.

I get it.

It's just not you know

i mean when the when the architect of the music was a chronically depressed man who killed himself at 27 yes there is an element to their music that would be qualified as downer but i i just think in their very short lifespan the

just to me pound for pound just perfect but you your take on it like so i brought a pea shooter to this right like i have nothing i i can't say anything musically like your whole knowledge about the end of hair metal and like the way that it changed the industry I'm just like well I don't like how it made me feel like you know obviously like I have no I have no dog in this fight like you win it's and you know I don't know I should not

musically I don't think anybody could say because I was like ripping on Fred Durst and Limpiscuit earlier it's like it's all it's all subjective but I do like last thing on this

Nirvana comes out,

they put out a couple records early, and then they come out with Nevermind and it recalibrates everything.

And then as their follow-up record, they hire this guy, this punk legend named Steve Albini, who produces the record.

And they try to make it difficult to handle and to turn away all the fans that they didn't want.

They didn't want all like the jocks in the crowd.

Cobain hated that as like a feminist.

And put out this really hard-to-digest follow-up record when they were the biggest thing in the world.

And then shortly before he died, they do this unplug show where the musicality is off the charts and the music is tender and gentle and it's got this this rawness to it, but also it showed like how talented he was and they were.

I mean, Dave Grohl was the drummer of that band as musicians.

All right.

You can hit us with the I don't care drop, Justin.

We're in too deep now.

No, I think because, and here's where I'm wrong, because I was always in such praise of...

I was always in such praise of Bob Dylan doing that with self-portrait, right?

Where you go and you change your voice.

Another good thing.

You're saying a different voice.

And

I was in awe of that at the time.

And I guess, you know, maybe it's just something in me,

like my Joe Buck and Troy Aikman take.

I'll connect it there.

Like it just doesn't hit my ears the right way.

It just doesn't.

And

I guess I got to get better at just accepting that for other people.

Do we want to hear Justin's take on this?

Absolutely.

This is when I'm on the fan for this.

All right, Justin, go ahead.

I just wanted to say I love how this Cooper Cup to Seahawks analysis has developed.

Connor, don't ever apologize for being an iconoclast.

Okay.

That's who you are, and we love it.

Thank you.

Yes, the Cooper Cup side of this thing is that the Cowboys late last week reached out to Cup.

This is from Schefter,

and they were very interested to the point where they got Dak and they got Lamb, C.D.

Lamb on the phone with Cooper Cup, selling him on the idea to come to Dallas.

And it looked like, you know, oh, this is going to happen.

And then Seattle blew him out of the water financially, and the Cowboys just weren't willing to go where they, uh, where the Seahawks went, which was, what, three for 45, as we said.

And that is a lot of money.

Like, you know, I'm wondering what our friend Jordan would say.

Is that the type of money you would give to Cooper Cup at this stage?

Can he stay on the field?

Remember, Ceci,

he disappeared in that Rams offense down the stretch, which isn't just on him.

It was kind of scheme as well.

But, you know, there was a time, one of the more impressive things I ever saw was being at that Super Bowl at SoFi Stadium and the entire stadium and the entire Cincinnati Bengals team knowing that Stafford was going to throw it to Cooper Cup.

And that guy got open anyway and won that game single-handedly with Stafford.

Does he still have that juice in the tank?

Seattle hopes so.

No, but I think he fits well there.

And, you know, I think part of this decision was a little bit human beyond the money.

And I hate like, let's see what the contract is, but like, we'll find out like what that money is down the road.

But he's from that part of the area so when he's wearing uh like a when he's wearing that t-shirt like I buy it because he grew up in that area but he also is like working he talked about the fact that like the Rams pass former passing game coordinator

Jake Peets is in Seattle now and that he unlocked Cooper Cup and it was a big part of why Seattle won this but then on flip side like Cowboys having a little bit of a tough week because like there's other stuff going on with them too but like Cooper Cup basically did not choose the Dallas Cowboys like that and there was other years where that would not happen.

And it's kind of a coup for Seattle because they needed someone like this to come in.

Um, I read this around this story that really surprised me.

Not since they signed Brandon Carr, the cornerback to a $50 million contract in 2012, have the Cowboys spent big on an outside free agent.

It's just not really what they do.

I would have never thought that, but then you start to think about it.

Like, we're always hearing about the Cowboys, all the drama around signing their own guys, which, whether it was, you know, Des or Zeke or CD or Dak or whomever,

they don't typically delve into those waters.

Yeah, the other thing that was happening, another player that went

to Seattle with Dallas Ties was Demarcus Lawrence.

And a lot of like drama back and forth on Twitter.

Do we care about this?

This was what I was referring to.

I find it like the kind of thing that we used to have to write articles about, which were tedious.

And then have the cowboys uh head of communications call the office and then we'd get threatened but that our contract wouldn't be renewed yeah that's always it's a great time

sounds personal can you give us a clips notes of what this battle has been about between parsons and lawrence former d-line teammates

um yeah it seems like micah parsons

or first um tomarcus lawrence went and did this interview when he joined the Seahawks and said like, I love Dallas, but I had to leave.

I knew I had to leave if I ever wanted to win a Super Bowl, which Micah Parsons obviously took issue with, seeing himself as a future hopeful Super Bowl winner in Dallas, called him a clown.

Well, he actually said this some clown shit in the tweet.

And Demarcus Lawrence didn't like that, obviously.

So calling me a clown won't change the fact that I told the truth.

But I think the the bigger takeaway from this is that what there is nothing really wrong with what Demarcus Lawrence said, and the quote sort of got spun out of context as a shot at Dallas when it was really more of a I'm happy to be in Seattle thing.

And I don't know, Micah Parsons probably saw the quote and didn't hear the quote.

So it just like snowballed.

I guess no, but that, but he also said, not really to, he also said to Micah Parsons, maybe if you spent less time tweeting and more time winning, I wouldn't have left.

Because we know Micah's like doing a lot of podcasting and stuff.

Like that's personal.

Yeah.

There's definitely something loaded in that comment.

Yeah.

He had the podcast and all that stuff.

Back to proposed NFL rule changes.

We talked about the

tush-push proposal.

The Lions, according to Pellraiser, proposed a bylaw change that would allow wildcard teams to be seeded higher than division winners based on record.

This would have been helpful for the rival Vikings last year and could be a factor in future years in competitive divisions.

Now,

I just want to, because it's easy to forget these things, with the Vikings, they're playing for the number one seed in week 18.

They get beat by Detroit.

Detroit gets the one seed.

The Vikings drop to the five seed.

So then they travel to L.A.

to face the Rams, who had a worse record but won their division.

And then they got their Heine spanked, as I recall.

So in this rule proposal, it'd be the other way around where the Vikings would, I guess, perhaps host the Rams.

Is that right?

Just as one example.

See, I don't like this because it ignores divisional strength, right?

Because some year there could just be a super kick-ass division where all the teams like the AFC North, where they all just beat the shit out of each other and then you end up at 9-8.

But winning that division is an accomplishment, and you should be awarded.

And I do think that that takes

some of that goal away from it, you know?

As someone who's an NBA fan,

I and who has seen how the way they do their playoffs, which is similar to this proposal, has totally negated like divisions

in the same way.

Like, I don't want to see the NFL.

I love divisions.

I love those battles, and I don't want anything that's going to water that down.

Mark, what do you think?

It's logical, and it's traditional, and divisions matter.

And I think that the divisional strength argument is trenchant.

I've always wanted to see this in real life.

I've been talking about it for a long time.

Now, I think it's the kind of thing where you do it and you find out wrong move.

And so I think there's a reason that this should should not pass but i've always been curious because i think there are some you could point to every season a couple situations where a team with a truly dominant team with a great record is stuck playing like an extra game or they're stuck doing x y and z and like i would like to see some of that corrected but it creates other issues that maybe we don't toy with um everything in the nfl

so you for or against

Like from a fantasy angle, I've always wanted to see it, but it's a kind of thing where then if you go do it, you might be like, we can't undo this.

And so I'm cautiously against it.

I thought you were spoiling for a fight on this topic.

I love this episode.

I was like,

but no.

Got you on the fence on that one.

Why aren't we talking about the one rule change proposal that we did, which is, goddamn, eliminate the onside kick and get me fourth and 15 from your own 20-yard line?

Like, we're so close.

Has that been proposed again?

Is that out there?

Like, it's so dumb.

We're almost there.

Push it over the edge.

Other submissions, the Lions

also submitted a proposal to eliminate automatic first downs for defensive holding and illegal contact.

That would make it instead, it's like a team that had an awful secondary last year that killed them.

That would instead be just a five-yard spot foul, I guess.

And if it leads to a first down, so be it.

And then the Eagles have proposed to make the NFL's regular season overtime rules the same as the postseason, meaning both teams get an opportunity to possess the ball no matter what.

Overtime would be 15 minutes.

The current regular season OT rule states that if the receiving team scores a touchdown on the opening drive, the game is over.

I am with the Eagles on this.

I feel like just make it the same and away we go.

What do you guys think?

If we've discovered a solution for the playoffs that makes more sense to everyone, why not apply it to all football games?

Like, why have a...

a lesser overtime rule whack a team in week 17 or 18?

Like just make it, let's do this A to Z.

Yes.

Totally agree.

Push it through.

We are on the same page.

Locked in, baby.

Sessler, time to do an ad read.

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Well, let's do it.

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March Madness is here.

And I just want to ask, like, are you guys still doing, do you do brackets still?

Like I used to do that back in like high school.

You're still way into it.

People still do brackets, yes, around March Madness, Mark.

Well, I'm not

sure.

I'm not suggesting that people don't, but I think like you could, you could, as an auxiliary adventure, go St.

John's.

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Connor, did you ever date a female Jabroni?

No, I think they would all have called,

they would have all called me the Jabroni, I would guess.

Tough for me to win that argument.

Toughy.

Toughy, toughy.

Jamar Chase, T.

Higgins back in Cincinnati.

We talked about it in depth on Tuesday.

We're not going to talk about it again.

Good luck to the Cincinnati Bengals.

But they had a press conference where where they were together and fun little moment in the press conference.

Jamar Chase, you know, these wide receiver ones, they're just, they're a little bit different.

A little prickly, coming from a little bit of a different angle.

They were asked, or Chase was asked, if star wide receivers can be friends as he's sitting next to T.

Higgins, his friend?

I don't know.

It depends.

You know, you might want to work out with them.

But then again, I'm doing it to steal their moves, if I'm being honest.

I'm not here to be your friend.

I'm here to come take your move and add it to mine so I could be better.

You know what I'm saying?

I mean, no, but.

I hope I steal it, though.

I hope I stood.

If you didn't hear that, you know what I'm saying?

And then the reporter's like, no, I don't.

He's never struck me as a cheerful fellow.

Although I got in the way one time with him because we had him on Radio Row

the year after

the Bengals were in the Super Bowl.

Like they weren't in the Super Bowl.

So, he's appearing on a Radio Row.

And I said to him, because it was one of these, it was like early morning, and I was in a fog.

And I sort of said, like, hey, it's because he sits down and you're like, hey, I like your shoes.

Like, you're trying to like, you know, juice them up a little.

And I was like, so were you at Radio Row last year?

He was like, no, I was in the Super Bowl.

And there were multiple like producers and coworkers standing around me and be like, that might have been one of the dumbest things that you have ever said in this house of employment.

And I was like, oh, my God.

Then the interview starts.

And I was like,

why am I here?

Like, just

that took you out.

You're done.

Yeah.

Gone.

There is also a report out there that

T.

Higgins fired his agent

and then hired Jamar Chase's agent, who then told the Bengals you can't sign Jamar if you don't also sign T.

This is almost now entering into Aaron Rodgers, Devontae Adams territory, where it's like, T, man,

you're a great player in your own right.

You don't have to tie your wagon to that, man.

But I guess it worked out for everyone in the end.

I don't know.

Do you think T.

Higgins could have gotten substantially more if he just went to the highest bidder in free agency, if he would have played this thing out?

I think there's a chance if he had a big year this year, he probably, I don't know, he'll probably upset.

He'll be probably mega-bummed about this contract if he has a big year in 2025.

He's 26 years old, and we look at how awful the quality of free agency has become, where now you basically get one marquee player on the open market every single year, if that.

I mean, no offense to Justin, but like Dan Morris getting $84 million a year on the open market.

T.

Higgins next year coming off of a franchise tag going into his age 27 season would have broken the bank because some team is going to be desperate enough to do it.

One team is going to be desperate enough.

The question is, do you want to play for that team and then probably have a shitty remainder of your career?

Right.

And no one can ever get on any player for passing passing on a chance to get multiple years of guaranteed money.

That's life-changing.

And Higgins made that decision.

Josina Anderson reports that both Kirk Cousins and Will Levis's names have come up in trade convos.

Now, that's, and you really want to talk about parsing words.

With the Falcons receiving calls and the Titans looking to transition.

Well,

so one team, one team, the Falcons, is actually getting the phone to ring and saying, hey, what's going on with this cousin situation?

And then there's Will Levis.

And then there's Will Levis.

I don't know why you packed those into one tweet.

They are, it just seems like separate tweets.

But I guess because there is no Will Levis tweet.

Like the Titans want to move on from Will Levis, like no doy of the century.

What's the John Cole?

It's like, you can have lobster and Skittles.

And by the way, speaking of Kirk Cousins, this is a fun little note.

Kirk Cousins has now guaranteed himself 300 because he opted, you know, the deadline passed, so the Falcons now have more money on the hook right now for Kirk Cousins.

He is now guaranteed, and this is from Spot Rack.

I love Spot Rack.

Shout out Spot Rack.

I just followed him on Twitter.

It's overdue.

Kirk Cousins has now guaranteed himself $331.6 million earned on the field across 14 NFL seasons.

Tom Brady, yes, that Tom Brady earned $332 million in 23 seasons.

No one,

Mark, and I mean no one has ever played the game financially better than Kirk Cousins in the modern era.

He got into the like double franchise tag world early on and kind of never got off that roller coaster.

I mean, He doesn't seem to me like the most materialistic person, which is why I find it the most hilarious.

You could do this with all, like, I think it's like Sam Bradford made an insane amount of money compared to people that were good at winning football games.

Like, there's these outliers, and Kirk Cousins is on the top of the mountain.

I mean, it's like the righteous gemstones.

Like, many of the most godly men are the richest as well.

You know, I don't know if there's a connection, but not that Kirk Cousins is not

legitimate in his devout beliefs.

I'm just saying, you know,

you could be a holy Christian man and make a shit ton of money, too.

Kirk Cousins, living proof.

And so is Connor Orr.

I'm not so sure about that.

Finally, in the news, this one's for Sess Dog.

Actually, two items on the Browns side of things.

One more grim than the next.

One, Carson Wentz and the Browns are in conversation.

Profile talk.

Starting a report.

Browns, Carson Wentz definitely have mutual interest.

I swear to God, I mean, maybe they'll end up with Cam Ward or whatever.

I don't know.

But if they enter this season, Mark, with Carson Wentz and Kenny Pickett,

we riot.

Yes, there's a weird little thing happening.

Well, first of all, you have Paul DiPodesta in the building.

who famously, analytically said, we chose not to pick Carson Wentz because he didn't match our,

you know, back during the Sashi Brown era.

We're not going in that direction.

And like he came out and flamed him in his, and Wentz flamed him in his first start.

So you got that, but then also Browns fans are up in arms right now because they have invited season ticket holders and Browns Faithful to come to this massive draft party where Journey of all bands is playing.

And they're like, you're not going to pick like Shador Sanders or a quarterback at number two.

You're going to pick like an edge rusher or an offensive lineman with Journey playing in front of your fan base.

Like that's when riots will, I think, a riot will occur if you've got these two quarterbacks as your day one starters.

On our last show, we had, we've listened to Miles Garrett smirking and being like, oh, yeah, they told me the plan and it was good enough to make me want to come back.

Did they sit him down and they were like Carson Witz and Kenny Pickett?

And he's like, fuck you.

Pick it.

Give me that guitar squeal.

Oh, Jesus.

There's got to be another move here.

It'd be really cool if the Browns got Steve Perry back in Journey for their draft party.

Like, everybody likes the Filipino guy because he sounds great, and that was a coup for the band to continue their touring life.

But if you got Perry back in the band, like, you're going to get people in that building.

Absolutely.

Journey reunion proper.

Don't stop believing, Mark.

Finally, yes, with the Browns.

Dav Kleinman, you know, my favorite reporter in the game,

based out there in Israel, doing what he's got to do i don't know if it's a he at this point i think it's a conglomerate of xers or tweeters

can you throw this one up justin uh

i why does it say dog can i tell you can i can i tell you real quick what he's doing if you go look at his account all these and it's not a he it's someone else at this point but all these um tweets it starts like um inspiring colon and then like it's some sort of news piece.

So he's going dog.

He's dog setting the table for the sentence in a big spot.

All right.

So because he's a dog, D-A-W-G, because he's working hard.

Dog colon.

You know, I'm a big Dobb fan, but maybe we got to reconsider this new style.

Dog, Brown star quarterback.

Brown star quarterback.

We are off to a rip-roaring start on this tweet.

Dog colon, Brown star quarterback, Deshaun Watson is already putting in the work this offseason, despite still having a boot on his foot.

One of the best QBs in the NFL went healthy.

Dobb, what are we doing?

Watson is looking to prove all the haters wrong.

Like,

is this Deshaun Watson's lawyer?

Well, he, I'm not kidding.

I, like, if you go look at it, he sold his account to.

I know.

We all know the Dobb backstory, Mark.

But that's, that's why we're getting this, though.

Like, this is he.

Whoever is writing this.

What the hell is going on here?

I don't know.

Someone without the knowledge of the American legal system, apparently.

Does he also just, can we pause for a second?

Does Deshaun Watson?

I'm watching the video, he has a tattoo of his high school state championship ring, his national championship ring at Clemson, and then a blank space for his Super Bowl ring.

Is that, did I look at that correctly?

I like that.

I

like that.

That's going to be a tough.

You know, Dabo Sweeney, my bud, once said that Deshaun Watson was basically Michael Jordan in NFL form.

That's what he thought of him as a winner.

So to see that this is where his career in life

is at in 2025.

Football is completely different than basketball.

Quite a journey, Ceci.

Quite a journey, as was this episode.

Any final words, Mark's.

Inspiring colon.

We will be back Friday.

on Patreon exclusively, the Friday Fun Show,

where we will be having fun and chopping things up as we always do.

So go ahead, check that out at patreon.com slash heed the call.

And

we'll be back with new episodes next week without the sess dog sess dog going on a well-earned vacation mark let the people know where you're going tell us about your personal life go

going uh flying into memphis and then going to missouri um to meet some

relatives huh yeah

yeah meet with some relatives or see some relatives i'll i will i don't i need i don't want to delve into it neatly

relatives

have you met them Speaking of piecing the puzzle together.

No.

It's like a Dobb Kleinman tweet.

All right.

Confusing, colon.

Until next time, eat the call.

Nationwide is so much more than a great insurance company.

They're one of America's largest financial services companies.

Like how I'm more than just Peyton Manning.

I'm also motivating Manning.

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Talk about refreshing.

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Yep.

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Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.