Speaking Truth to Power at the 2025 NFL Scouting Combine

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The Heed the Call Podcast

knows where the good cigar bar in Indy is, but we ain't saying shit.

Mm-mm.

Find it for yourself.

Welcome to Heed the Call

with Dan Hanses

and Mark Sessler.

And yeah, if you want to, when I think back to those as we begin Combine Week, Mark Sessler, when I think back

to those many trips we took to the Midwest,

drenched, bathed in red light cigar bar, you know, with

Connor Orr with us.

Let's bring in Connor.

Hey, Connor.

Hello.

Those are good memories.

Connor led us to that cigar bar, I believe.

The first time we went there, it was Connor who...

was the map maker and brought us to that establishment.

Connor also, yeah, he told us about the greatest under the radar pizza joint in Indianapolis, the cigar bar.

We just followed him.

He was the Pied Piper of Indianapolis.

That brought me so much joy in just like sharing.

sharing all that with you.

And I didn't realize how happy it could make me as opposed to just keeping it all to myself, which was the initial plan.

But then, you know, just giving that to all of you and allowing you to experience Indianapolis.

It was.

Am I mistaken that there's also, there's the cigar bar, which is classy in theory, right?

But then there was the bar where you could just smoke.

Like there was these smoking bar where it just smelled like cigarettes, but it was a lesser bar, like above ground, and it was

for

vagrants to some degree.

And it was not where you'd go.

Oh my God, what was the name of the...

We went to it with

it was a great West Night.

Was it called the Slippery Noodle?

That sounds right.

Is that what you're?

I think that's the bar you're talking about.

That could be it.

That could be it.

Oh, my God.

It was such a good night.

You know, there's always talk about, oh, is the NFL going to take the combine out of Indianapolis?

And they will.

They will eventually because they're going to find a way to make more money off it and also use it as a carrot to other owners.

Oh, we're not going to give you the Super Bowl.

Oh, and we're also not going to give you the draft, but we'll throw you a combine.

That's what eventually will happen.

But so as many years as it stays in India, I think is great because not everything needs to be blown out and needs to be in the exact place to monetize at the highest level.

India is a beautiful little downtown, everything's connected.

Even though the weather's not great this time of year, everything you could travel within the buildings and the catacombs, like all those great cold weather cities in the country have those setups.

And

we are not there yet this year, but we will be covering the Combine with

great, great, close attention, Sestog.

Well, I think so.

And it's like the combine

is an incredible thing to go do, but I think we can do it just our way from here.

And Connor, I know that you're not there because you've got a little bundle of joy coming your way in the few days.

I mean, literally could be.

We had a false alarm last night as I think like you guys were in the group chat talking about like music, and then I was just in a full-on meltdown where I was trying to make dinner, and then I was packing, and then

all of a sudden, contraction subsided.

But this could be a fun moment for the pod.

I could literally have to just walk out in the middle of the show, which would be cool.

I love that.

Yeah, I think that would be play the breaking news drop.

If I have to,

I think you should.

Will you name your baby after either Dan myself, or will you just name the baby Gravedigger?

Just a single, like,

how does it work?

I was thinking about that.

Like, if we did a Heed the themed name for a female baby.

I do like the sound.

Heed or.

I mean that's it's pretty crazy, but like also memorable.

With or you just have to you have to be so careful because it's such a dumb last name as it is.

And so anything that bounces off of that is just going to be more difficult for the kids as they get older, you know?

I don't think it's a dumb last name.

I love his last name.

And Justin,

one other thing that I have here, Justin picked up and moved to Texas on short notice, as we know.

And we're very happy for him and his new life.

But again, Mark, like I can't, some of the petty grievances that I'm trying to keep down, because I miss him already.

Now, clearly, he lives in a bigger home than either of us.

And his background now

is very clearly showing up our backgrounds on screen here.

I think that that looks like some fine furniture and now some high-end lighting.

I mean, all of a sudden, this guy looks like Tom Pellisero in a big spot.

Yeah, very already.

We all want to look like Tom Pellisero.

That's kind of the goal in life.

That's true.

The peak.

Yeah, Mark.

I want to admire the background, but I feel also when I look at my own, it's just pieces of paper and paintings attached to a wall.

And if you actually looked at the room that I'm in,

it's Iraqi.

It's like we've got issues here.

So, Justin,

congratulations to you and your newfound wealth.

Thank you.

Wealth is relative.

You know, wealth in LA versus wealth in Texas.

It's like, come on, the land here.

Could it get cheaper?

I've always, that's fair.

I've always found, Mark, that your, your background has always had like the whiff of,

you know, like the, you know, in hospitals where like the rich people and the celebrities, there's a, there's a top floor of the hospital that other regular people can't have access to.

That's just almost like a resort up there.

You're in that version of the higher level, but it's like a Cambodian death camp.

So it's like the best prison in the death camp.

You know what I mean?

In that environment, right?

I think you're right.

Again, if I could swivel the camera around, you would just be stunned by what else

we're doing in this room.

So, yeah.

We believe you.

All right.

Anything else before we get into today's show, which is with the Combine coming up, we're going to spin into

press conference conversation before the press conferences begin, Ceci?

I do have one thing.

Yes.

So this weekend,

I went to Arizona and back for a couple of items that I, some to-dos.

And on the way, it was, I believe it was Saturday morning, very early.

And I was like getting a call.

I get a huge voice message from Dan.

I'm like, is he like issuing show notes this early on a weekend morning?

Like not unusual.

We're always thinking about the show and what it should be.

But I didn't, you know, I didn't see it later.

So I listened to the voice message.

And

Justin, I think you have a bit of this.

We'll just do a bit of this.

But it was like, it kind of was.

Is this going to get me arrested?

Well, no, it won't.

No.

Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go.

Stay right here.

Stay right here.

Stay right here.

All right, not too hard.

So it's limited to kick no matter what.

Hey, if you're on track, you're responsible for the bat.

Hey, good job.

Guys, you jog off the field, you jog on the field.

Go, go, go, go.

Oh,

go, go, go.

Coaching.

Wow.

Okay.

All right.

All right.

Hey, all right.

You go, get your equipment.

Take your helmet, play.

Take it off, like you're going to get a play.

Hey, everything's the same.

It's your first day

with center fields.

You're getting a ball.

Guys, when the meeting's over, get your helmet off and get your stuff.

I want to say this.

No, no.

I think this is the coolest butt dial that I've ever gotten in my life.

Like, it was, I don't know how you dialed me.

I'm the king of the butt dial.

Like, I just, I can't, I don't know how everyone else doesn't do it all the time.

I I do it constantly.

It's probably a simple feature change in my iPhone that, you know, as the geriatric millennial here, I don't know how to fix it.

So I just call people fairly regularly.

It made me very, as your friend, because I know that you do, and you had a big weekend.

You do a lot of coaching.

You're very involved.

And we all can remember dads.

My dad coached a bunch of my teams.

We all can remember the dads that put their time into that.

And like, I say this sincerely, like listening to that, like, I kind of almost like teared up a little bit in the car in the desert because I was like, this is Dan

being Dan for these wonderful kids who will never forget him.

But also, like, good teaching moments.

Like, you understand baseball really well, and it's like real knowledge, right?

I had a great role model, and I continue to have a great role model, and my own father, Keith Hansis.

Many lessons that he imparted to me as a youth that connect to baseball are things that can connect to anything.

And, like, for instance, nobody walks on my field.

You jog off the field, you jog on the field, right?

And that's something, that's one of the things you heard there.

But in general, like that's the double A.

It's my, Harrison is my eight-year-old.

That's the double A team.

So you're dealing with a lot of third graders, and you just, it's drilling like how things are supposed to work, like where they're supposed to be to be plugged in.

It's such, once you jump up to the triple-A level and then the majors level in Little League, it's much less about that.

But double A, like you're kind of responsible as a coach for teaching them what they're supposed to do and just to have their heads outside their asses.

So that's why it might have sounded a little militant, but you have to, especially earlier in the season.

That was our season opener.

So nobody knows what's going on.

That's funny, though.

Oh my God.

I did flag the jogging on and off the field thing, and I was like, man,

how quickly would I have been removed from girls' level A softball this year if I had pulled out like even 10% of this?

I'm very jealous of you right now.

That's like, you know, you could be.

Oh, so you're saying you have to be softer touch with the girls?

It's not, it's not a gender thing at all.

I'm saying it's like

that basic level.

Um, because I went in hard on multi-sport, which is like the four-year-old where you play everything like once a week.

You do lacrosse, you do soccer.

And I was just like, listen, like, if we're not going to do this, like, we're going to go home.

And then I got looked at like I was an axe murder.

And so I quickly fell in line.

Um, and now I'm just very much like, as long as we don't bludgeon each other with the baseball bats, then everything's okay.

And I think that this is, you know, this is an example of where I need to go.

I have a lot of, a lot of, I have two boys.

Mark has two boys.

Bob has two boys.

I have a lot of boys in my life, and I've coached a lot of teams, and the parents, they have no issue with you going

in on them a little bit because they know that, you know, little boys are pains in the asses, and they need structure.

It's universally accepted.

Yes.

All right, here we go.

How about that?

Little league, man.

It's the only thing in my life now.

All right, let's get into it.

Let's start before we get into again.

News press conferences coming up in Indianapolis for the GMs and coaches on Tuesday, Wednesday, into Thursday.

I don't know, but most GMs and coaches will speak at Indianapolis.

We'll cover all of that.

But coming up a little later, we're going to set the table for what we'd like to hear from coaches and GMs this week.

But before that, let's do some news.

We wanted a coach that was exceptionally bright, creative, and most importantly, a tremendous leader.

I believe that is exactly what we have in Ellen Moore.

Oh no, oh no.

No.

Oh no.

Did she call him Ellen?

Yes.

That was Gail Benson, owner

of the

sample.

What is going on here?

That was at the introductory press conference for Kellen Moore.

Oh, no.

Oh, my God.

Man.

Hey, Saints fans, we were just down in New Orleans for the Super Bowl, and there were some Saints fans at the live show we did, and they're all very nervous about the current state of the Saints, and

we get it.

NFL Networks Tom Palisero, who I mentioned earlier, I mean, Gravedigger, coming for him.

Coming for him.

Next time we're going to cut to Gravedigger, he's going to be wearing a bunch of designer suits with skinny ties.

That's the next step in the Graver Texas transform.

Haircut, you get that kind of cool guy haircut thing going on, like cool sneakers for the 12-year-old.

That whole, you know, the whole situation.

NFL Networks Tom Pellercero reports the Rams have given Matthew Stafford's agent permission to speak to other teams.

Pellercero said on the Rich Eisen show

that the priority remains for Los Angeles to keep Stafford there.

However, that won't happen without a new contract for Stafford, now 37 years old.

So,

Connor, you know the ins and outs and what have you with this world.

This is posturing/slash, what, like letting other teams do the business for the Rams?

How do you take this?

Yeah, I think this is the equivalent of, okay, go out and get your deal, and then we're going to come back and we're going to see if it matches.

But I would go all the way back to when Stafford came to the Rams in the first place.

That whole thing was consummated on a beach resort in Cabo in like January and February.

And we kind of, there's an illusion here that anything really happens at the Combine.

All this stuff takes place over text and over these clandestine meetings.

My guess is they know what they want with Stafford.

My guess is that the Staffords know what they want at this point.

And at this point, we're just sort of drawing out the speculation.

And if he has a good offer to bring back to the Rams, I'd be interested in seeing it.

But this $50 million threshold is a big number for them.

And, you know, I don't know.

I think that they've been doubtful of Stafford before.

They've considered dealing him in the past.

And maybe this is, you know, ask yourself this.

I'll bounce it back to you this way.

Would you rather Stafford at 50 million for two years or Aaron Rodgers at 20 and a bridge quarterback?

I don't know.

I don't know the answer to that question.

Yeah, because I think the Aaron Rodgers availability changes this.

I think he fits with the Rams.

The Rams, obviously, not afraid to make bold moves.

I thought the thing that kind of is intriguing here is that multiple

reports out there suggest that they're a little peaked by Kelly Stafford and her podcast and kind of the whole

doable.

And that's very modern, right?

Like now we've got a lot of players' wives doing shows.

And I hope her show does well.

It's not a thing about Kelly Stafford.

That's not what you said to me privately.

You were.

No, I said nothing privately.

Because she likes to hit back on people that critique them.

I think the Rams are maybe ready.

Didn't Matthew Stafford

do everything they could have hoped he would have done?

They won a Super Bowl.

And it's like, okay, it's maybe time now to refresh the waters.

They've done that with their defense, and maybe we do it with our offense.

It's just, it's business, and I fully expect Stafford to be the quarterback.

I think he might come up a little bit later, so we could leave that where it is.

But since you mentioned, Connor, that number, that 50 million number, I was doing some research connected to another conversation we'll have later.

And, you know, people are wondering about like Brock Purdy's deal.

Like, is he a $60 million quarterback?

Well, Jalen Hurts, his AAV,

is $51 million.

Jared Goff's is $55 million.

Dak Prescott is $60 million.

So if you want a quarterback in the Stafford world, which is clearly on the right side of the Dalton line, that's where his business side is coming from on this, right?

He's like, if those guys,

I mean, all due respect, Jared Goff, I know he's had a nice run with Detroit now, but he was the throw-in as a salary cap dump

when the Rams acquired Stafford, and he's getting paid $55 million.

So Matt Stafford and his wife and his agent and everyone else, like, well, let's start there.

What is he now?

What is he making?

What is his AAV right now?

Is he severely underpaid relative to market?

Matt Stafford, I think, is like 40 million.

Well, that's fair.

You see where he's coming from.

And how many years does he have left in the league?

If you had a chance to shrewdly negotiate and make an extra 15 mil or so in your last year or two as a professional athlete, you'd do the same thing.

There's no other threat, right?

There's no other threat.

He is, by and large, the best quarterback that is available.

And

this is the worst QB draft class we've had since the Kenny Pickett draft in 2022.

There's not an immediate answer in the top 10.

Last year, six guys were some version of the immediate answer for a lot of these teams.

And he's competing against Kirk Cousins.

There's another unknown.

And we applaud guys like that when Cousins always seems to hit the market at the exact right time.

This is Stafford, and I don't blame him.

He's going to get what he wants.

Someone's going to pay him.

I mean, God, I mean, look at how the Giants, you know, imagine putting him and Cooper Cup together with Malik Neighbors.

Like, that's a dream scenario for that team.

That's a 10-win team.

Matthew Stafford has looked like a top five quarterback at points last season and the season before.

So, yes, I agree.

Okay.

By the way, Jimmy Garoppolo is on that roster.

I wonder if there's a small part of Sean McVay is like, you know, he watched what happened with Darnold and O'Connell.

He's like, I could do the same shit with Jimmy G.

Well, he thinks he could, for sure.

All right.

In other news,

the Jaguars.

I was wondering about this.

I thought maybe the Jaguars just forgot.

You know what I mean?

Like,

it was like, well, we did.

We were just ridiculously strung along the the last GM.

And then once it became clear that everyone thought we were completely unserious

to keep Artakamis involved, they got rid of Balki.

And now

it just kind of went through.

And I was thinking to myself, like, the draft's coming up.

I was thinking just last week, I was like, the draft is coming up.

Don't you want a GM in place?

Like, I know, like, don't you need that structure?

Anyway, now they have it.

The Jaguars, speaking of the Rams, hire former Rams personnel executive James Gladstone as their new GM.

The team announced this on Friday.

He was with the Rams for the past nine years.

Their director of scouting strategy for the past three seasons.

I mean, it's probably a little bit tricky for the Rams as well for this guy to exit the picture now, but I'm sure they have a succession plan in place.

Anyway, Mark, so this is, again, the NFL is a copycat league.

NFL podcasting is a copycat league by saying the NFL is a copycat league.

We all know this.

So the Rams are always going to be pilfered.

The Niners are always going to be pilfered.

The Chiefs are always going to be pilfered.

And here it has happened again.

Well, I like that Liam Cohen obviously has.

Duval.

There we go.

He's got ties with this individual.

They probably work together, know each other, probably were socializing together.

Their entire operation, coaching and front office, is so drastically young that it's a fascinating experiment.

That's what I kind of like, will this work?

Let's see.

But they're all like, they were all born in like the night, like in the like the like the late and the mid-90s or something.

Like, so this is, this is different than anything else.

Um, if you're Shad Khan and Connor, I know that you've gotten deep Jaguars ties from the past.

You used to do, you were, you had a Jaguars fascination, but this is like one of the more intriguing points of turn for the Jaguars.

Let's see if this works, but I have no problem with that.

I think it's just interesting to me that if they had just engineered the offseason the way that we had expected them to, a lot of this would have fallen into line in a saner place.

And maybe it was good to have Liam Cohen on board when you hire James Gladstone and the two of them can kind of hit it off and one can be a part of the other's interviews.

But removing Balky from minute one would have made all of this.

I mean, we still have questions about staffing in Jacksonville, half the league, you know, whatever, Tampa Bay is blocking a lot of these guys.

Did you get the best?

You know, none of your coaches, I think, are all of your coaches, I think, are first-time coordinators, head coaches, or play callers.

And so it's a difficult situation that they've put themselves in.

And now you have a 34-year-old that's running everything.

And at the end of the day, this could all be good, like it was in Carolina, to just rip the band-aid off and hand it off to a bunch of young people.

I mean, Carolina's offensive coordinator is 28, you know.

And so I think this can work, but it just, it's scattershot.

It's all, it all came together in a very strange way.

But do you keep your scouting staff that's been scouting players for

13 months?

Right.

And then you got to get through the draft, then you redo.

But like, that alone is kind of like, um, that's a rough little transition there.

And it's hard too, because especially, think about it this way.

I mean, imagine any of us.

I've done talks in front of rooms of coaches and how incredibly intimidating that is for people who command a room for a living and they look at you like, what the f do you know?

And I think for a 34-year-old to come into a situation where all the work has been done and now suggests that we may be valuing things a different way.

We may be looking at things a different way.

Well, actually, I want to move this guy up here.

It's a very delicate thread.

You really have to be careful with that.

It's like Moneyball.

It's on base.

I like the idea of tagging any conversation with it's like Moneyball, and then people.

Well, no, that scene where you've got the hundred-year-old scouts being like, What are you talking about here, kid?

You know, he's got fat.

Scott Hadaberg on bass machine.

Colorado quarterback university.

If Colorado quarterback Shador Sanders will not work out at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis.

He will interview with teams as part of that process, but not participate in the on-field workouts.

That was via Ian Rappaport, our bud, at NFL Network.

Sanders, and this is also very typical now, I feel like, for guys that feel confident about their draft standing.

He does plan to throw at Colorado's pro day, and he'll have receivers that he's worked with in college to throw to then.

his dad will be there, Dion, overseeing the event.

So a nice controlled environment.

And Connor, this is probably what I would do, too, if I were in the catbird seat of the 2025 NFL draft.

Do it exactly how I see fit.

Don't do any additional risks or put myself in any position to drop because I probably know I'm going top two, right?

I don't think so.

Oh, really?

Take me through it.

Let's talk.

Well, I don't know.

So I did a little bit of digging on the quarterback class these past few weeks for a story I'm working on at SI.

And a lot of the people that I trust who evaluate the position, there are some in that world and take this for a grain of salt, right?

Because this happens every year where maybe someone's trying to sound too smart or maybe someone knows something that someone doesn't.

But I see Jackson Dart as QB2 on some people's boards at this point.

And Shadur, to me,

to me, and at least to some of the people that I've talked to, it comes across as more, it's got to be in the right system.

And this has not been brought up to me, but I'm just thinking aloud.

If you're drafting him, can you get a guarantee that

if the starting quarterback on the team struggles, that the dad's not going to go on first take and say that you should be playing instead of him?

And I don't, you know, Dion,

for all the...

crap that people say about him.

I had someone tell me this the other day.

If I was Shadur's dad and I had the same power, I'd be doing the exact same thing because you want to do right by your kids and we all have a different idea of what that looks like.

But that is an element of that.

And I think that is going to be the most important part of Indianapolis for some of these teams is if we draft you, what does this look like?

I mean, your dad's going to be giving weekly press conferences.

He's going to be on TV all the time.

How is this going to impact what we're trying to do here?

Yeah, like I think like we talked about this situation on a previous show.

And right, it's like there's, there is maybe a handful of organizations that feel like they could handle what comes with this.

So I'm with you.

I also think that like because this is a poor quarterback class, like Sanders and the name brand and everything else that comes along with it is going to get elevated.

But like if you're Justin and you're a Titans fan or if you're Mark and you're a Browns fan like and you pass on Shador Sanders, the son of Deion Sanders, the quarterback, and he blows up somewhere else, like it's just another total fatal black mark on your organization.

Like, how do you pass up on him no matter what the drama is?

Like, there's something enticing.

It's almost like it's not the same player on any level, not the same person, but like there's a Johnny Manzel element where like, do you pass on the aura of this and what it does for your organization and your fan base?

Like, I don't want to take an edge rusher and then have someone else, the Giants, take Shador Sanders and he becomes like a 12-year.

Pro Bowl quarterback.

You feel like fools all over again.

Yeah.

You have to trust your people behind the scenes, what you're hearing, having a good feel of it.

But I exactly, I feel the same.

Like, you don't, it's to me, if there's enough upside to the quarterback, and we're going to have Lad Zierline on later this week, a draft expert, who can give us a little more insight on where Sanders ranks as a prospect.

But I would roll the dice that that stuff won't become a huge embarrassment or impediment or distraction for the team if I thought the player had a chance to be, you know, a top 10 quarterback.

Like, that's what it's about, right?

Landing that quarterback.

And if by some

reason or this thing starts to catch fire, that he's seen as too much of a risk for beyond just what he brings on the field, but what comes with him, and he gets by the Titans and the Browns and the Giants, I'd be shocked if he got past the Raiders at six or the Jets at seven.

I would think one of those teams might even trade up if they had.

But yeah, it's a fun little subplot to watch around this particular figure.

Interesting.

All right.

That's what's happening in the news.

Pivot, Sess Dog, let's talk, bro.

What do you or what have you done to get ready for a first date?

And what are you thinking about leading up to it?

I know it's been a while, but take me through it.

I think, number one, like you want to use the days beforehand to get your best self kind of prepped.

Like,

do you need a haircut?

Do you have a shirt washed that's clean and dried, that looks good on you?

Like,

get it all down.

Like, be your best self and, you know, get out of your head.

And I'd say maybe do a drink before you get there just to kind of get rolling, you know?

Oh, yeah, to calm the nerves.

Yeah.

I think another thing sneaky under the radar is make sure you smell good.

We were talking about deodorant last week.

Are we talking about cologne last week?

Yeah.

Or what did you call it?

Alien Mark called it, body human scent,

whatever it was.

He called it like a human scent.

Yeah, like an added scent.

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audience only.

That really synced up nicely because Connor had to take a ferocious piss break, and now he's back.

The text we got was delightful.

A little bit panic.

There was a panic in his eyes.

A panic urine.

Feeling better, buddy?

It is.

You know, when you're,

I mean, with a pending birth, obviously, but when there's just something exciting that's going to happen, you just, just sort of have to piss more.

I don't know.

My friends call that when you get the juice box, like you just have to keep going all the time.

That's kind of where I'm at right now.

It's like a kissing cousin of the nervous fart.

It is.

The body is an incredible thing, isn't it?

It's just a beautiful,

beautiful mosaic, yes.

Can I ask before we get into our hypothetical press conferences in which we

have coaches and/or GMs in Indianapolis actually be truthful.

I want to ask you, Connor, because some people might not know.

I know we've discussed it a little bit.

You mentioned speaking in front of coaches.

Yeah, that's speak my curiosity.

Can you just talk about that a little bit?

Yeah, I had an opportunity.

Maybe name names of coaches that were dicks.

Go ahead.

I have to.

I'll put it this way.

I've gotten some really great opportunities in my career, and this one was more of an advisement that took place over the course of like

kind of like

an enrichment time in the offseason.

And so I'm, you know, sometimes members of the media come in to different

groupings or different retreats or different getaways or different conventions.

And, you know, we can talk about relationship building, like how do you, how can you better work with the media?

Like that kind of stuff.

So,

you know, in our role, because I think sometimes that's the crazy part is every reporter is different and then so they come across this kaleidoscope of people and they're just like what the hell is going on so i think it's interesting to just sort of lay out the landscape but very intimidating to do because these people present for a living they have to command the most alpha rooms on planet earth and then here i am you know just trying to mosey on up here and and make a quick point you know and are all the coaches do they all want to be there Are they there by choice?

Or do you feel like you have to convert some or are they giving you the stink eye?

It's like any room, right?

Did you have a mustache when you delivered these dresses, like the one you have now?

Like, I'm just trying to.

Did you, or were you wearing one of your Connor outfits?

I was going to ask, like, were you like in a

dress?

Are you in a top hat with a cane?

Like, because you're a bit of a downbeat dresser, so what was the fact that you're a downbeat dresser?

Downbeat dresser.

Well, no, you're like, I would call it relaxed, whatever.

Like,

you're on the record saying that you like to wear, like, how do you roll in?

Downbeat.

It's funny, like, around my neighborhood, uh, my one, I have like an elderly neighbor across the street, and she came over to me after like three or four years of living there, and she's like, I have never seen you in anything but basketball shorts.

And she's like, it's December.

Please put on a pair of pants.

And so, yeah, that's kind of my normal fashion sense.

But every now and then, when the

when the time arrives, I will throw on a pair of khakis and a button-down shirt.

I think you guys saw, I think you guys the the the upper end of my spectrum when we went to the next stage.

I've seen flannel shirts.

I've got a shirt.

You had some, you were a flannel.

You've got some flannel and some pants.

Yeah, I did upscale flannel for our N7 dinner.

Yeah, and you look great.

Your story that you told us a few months back about

a Giants, New York Giants veteran that pulled you aside in the locker room.

And I believe the direct words were, you know, why nobody takes you seriously?

It's the way you look.

Is that what it was?

Something like that?

That was it.

And there was a good extension of that.

One of my buddies covers professional baseball for a living.

He said that a GM of a baseball team once told him that he looked like an unmade bed.

And I thought that was such a good thing, because it really is.

It's like high school.

When you're working in a locker room, it's so much like high school where it's okay, well, what kind of clothes do you wear?

And all that kind of stuff.

And I'd never really thought about it before.

I just dress like I've dressed every day for the entirety of my life.

But apparently that makes a big difference.

So yeah, I think we all have those moments.

Like I can think back to when I lived in Colorado and I had like a string of totally absurd temp jobs, but there was one with a very serious boss whose office was right next to mine.

I was answering the phone and like it was like, they're sluttering like Colorado highways, but I'd show up in various states because I was, you know, as young, was out late in the night.

like every night before.

And one day he pulled me into his office, said, you've got to dress as if you care at all about being here.

And I took it seriously.

I was like, that kind of, I still think about it.

It stung me.

Like, it's like, let's get out.

You know,

you see it differently with the guys that really in our industry that want to be on camera and really be,

you know, dress to impress.

But one of the reasons I got into sports is because I never wanted to work in a cubicle and wear a tie every day.

Like that was a non, like, 27% of the reason I got into sports was like, I get to be myself and not, because I worked mail room jobs in corporate America when I was in high school and college and I saw the way those you know that type of life and I and I've I'm not you know banging on anybody that lives that type of life because a lot of people do including people listening right now but I knew that was going to drive me crazy and uh and so I was one of the you know, a disheveled mob that got into sports media, which was funny when we started going on camera, Mark, which none of us thought was going to happen.

And then all of a sudden we're on NFL Network and we have to try to dress up like it's not in our DNA as sports guys who got into it for the love of

the craft.

There was a, there was at one point at NFL Network, there was a mandate and it was in our, we'd already been on a bunch of times during COVID and before his groups and we got to wear what we wear, but like they're like, everyone must now wear a tie.

And I was like, I never want to be on this station ever again.

I think ties are one of the dumbest things that we still have pulled into this generation, this era of fashion.

how dumb they are.

And I'll never forget that.

I forgot about your tie.

I will not respect

you look ridiculous.

It's a good angle.

I have two quick thoughts to put a bow on this.

Once when we were all on TV together at NFL Network, I only had one nice shirt and it had, I had worn it, I think the night before when we went out and it got ripped up the side.

of the shirt.

And so it was almost like

it was a blouse at that point.

And we were.

Were you in a street fight the night before?

I mean, who knows what happens at the corner?

Cozy in.

But I had to,

like, we were on camera and I couldn't move my torso to a point where, or else I would actually show like midriff.

It was tough.

Yeah, it was a tough thing.

But is there anything more uncomfortable than being overstuffed in a suit?

Because I like to eat, you know?

And I think that's ultimately the

basis of my rejection and all that.

Correct.

Well said.

Well said.

All right, let's get into it.

You know, it was about nine years ago, I believe now.

And Connor, thank you for reminding us of this because although we were unable to find the sound clip, which really kind of takes you into like how the world has changed even in the last decade, where there was like we were doing ATN, and here's a press conference at the Combine, and it wasn't, Justin went back and checked it, and we just read it verbatim.

The copy, we didn't play it back because now everything's out there immediately on Twitter.

But back then in 2015,

the Los Angeles Rams are trying to make a decision, right?

Or was it St.

Louis?

Where were they at that point?

Who knows?

St.

Louis Rams are trying to make a decision about Sam Bradford, the former number one overall pick.

And up to the podium stepped a young, handsome, another guy that doesn't really like to dress up, by the way, Les Sneed,

who said, quote, deleting Sam Bradford is not the answer.

But, Connor, as you pointed out last week, that actually was the answer for those Rams.

And deleting the guy after that, too.

And they cut ties with their former number one overall pick.

And it did get me thinking about how we want to begin our conversations about this time of the NFL calendar, which is when really things turn over to 2025 in these press conferences, and

the media gets the first chance to really dig in at large with these coaches and GMs about their plans for 2025.

But what if Les Need kept it real way back then and said deleting Sam Bradford is the answer?

And then

we cut through all the bullshit and we're just being real.

And we're just,

there's no, you don't have to hide behind anything.

You just, you're just, it's honest dialogue between NFL figure and the media, which then gets directly sent to the fans and everybody's on the same page.

Why can't life be that way?

Right now, it's going to be that way.

So we're going to take turns as various coaches and GMs type figures and keep it real.

Speaking truth to power at the NFL Scout and Combine.

And since we're talking about the Rams, Connor, you want to get us going?

Let's be real.

Let's get real.

Let's get real.

This is the take.

If you really want to visualize it, these are the opening remarks.

The way these pressers work.

It's in a big room at the convention center there

at Indianapolis, and everybody gets like 15 minutes.

Opening remarks followed by a little reporter Q ⁇ A.

And then inevitably, a PR flak will jump in and say, what, Justin?

One more question for Les.

And then you lose him, right?

And then maybe there's a little side gang bang for beat reporters.

But we're not talking about that.

We're talking about it right now.

Connor, opening remarks from who?

Les Snead.

How about that?

All right, all right, all right.

Table chat.

You cameras still like this?

What?

Are cameras still like this?

Oh, yeah.

Real film.

These are, it sounds like a Polaroid, a few Polaroids, maybe.

Got to get those prints out immediately.

Absolutely.

Like a Oppenheimer with the flashes.

The floor is yours.

Les Need.

All right, all right, all right.

You know, the best thing about these quarterbacks?

I keep getting older and they stay the same age.

Everyone out here seems freaked out about Matt Stafford and whether we're going to delete him.

Well, baby, Big Lessey is out here on Venice Beach taking a look at what's out there, and the sun is shining, and the waves are crashing.

And I can promise you that ultimately, this will not impact your life one iota.

That's true for two reasons.

One, the best part of being a GM of the Rams: we have no fans.

There are none of you.

We have no history.

It doesn't exist.

It's not real.

Our third most famous player.

It's a Wazzi.

It's a Wauzzi.

It's a Wuzzy.

It's a

fairy dust.

It doesn't exist.

It's never landed.

It is no matter.

It's not on the elemental chart.

It's not f ⁇ ing real.

Our third most famous player is Odell Beckham.

I could comprise a team of overheated geriatric Labradors and this vacant stadium would still sound exactly the same.

The other, you get a good look at that head coach in there.

That boy is wound tighter than a mason jar.

He's a goddamn genius.

I'll sign Aaron Rodgers for a subscription to high times and he'll throw for 5,000 yards.

This is LA, baby.

We need some strange.

We need a quarterback suspicious of things like the fog and the nutritional content of snow.

I deleted Sam Bradford and you got Jared Goff.

I deleted Aaron Donald and you got Jared Verse and Braden Fisk.

Now I'm I'm going to delete Cooper Cup and Matt Stafford and, oh, wait, there's no one at this press conference.

Hey,

where's Jordan?

Where'd she go?

I'll just go f ⁇ myself.

Less need, man.

That's fair.

That's fair.

And that's all we ask for, Connor.

We just honesty.

And what's less really trying to tell us there?

Well, here's a couple things.

I think that, A, again, the Rams have the benefit of the doubt because it's not like the Giants moving on from Eli Manning.

There's not going to be any protests.

No one's going to give a shit.

This is a very transient fan base that just kind of shows up when things are interesting.

I think you have the greatest quarterback head coach in the league.

I think that you have a GM who's proven that he can do both things really well.

He can be Howie Roseman and he can add veteran talent and he can work that sort of area of the tightrope.

And he can also replenish a roster with just a couple of drafts and not even high draft capital.

And so I think the theme here is just to let me cook, let me do what I'm going to do, let Sean cook, let him do what he's going to do.

And this thing's going to be fine.

It has, you know, it has something to do with Matt Stafford, but it also doesn't.

I mean, we replaced Cooper Cup with Puka Nikua.

Like, we're going to keep doing this because we know how to do it well.

Yeah, I like they have earned the benefit of the doubt.

Now, who would even be doubting them, to your point?

Like, this is not a rabid fan base that's like going to go nuts over this.

Um, like I said before, Stafford

came in and completed the task.

And if anything, I feel like this is a front office and a coaching staff that always seeks new challenges.

And they've done that year after year.

And, like, they've proven that they can draft and develop people really quickly.

And there is also the possibility that you mentioned Aaron Rodgers, like, he kind of would fit perfectly as a stopgap in a year where you can't draft someone or you don't draft someone.

I just kind of trust the Rams.

And I think Les Sneed is someone that's like, I can do it this way.

I can do it that way, but I'll succeed both ways.

And they have.

And so while they have no fan base, I'm with you on that.

Like the Rams are successful and they seek new ways to do things.

And so I wouldn't.

panic if they move on from Stafford.

And we'll have a little more Stafford juice later on in the show.

Yeah.

By the way,

I live in Los Angeles.

There are Rams fans.

There's a lot of Rams fans.

So like that's a faulty New Jersey narrative over there.

And Mark seconding it is not fair because it's

I'd rank them like fifth in sports teams in this town versus like

it's an underrated sports town and there's there's a lot of love for a lot of different teams here.

The Rams are building a fan base, but that's not here.

It got said one too many times.

I had to point out that I know a lot of Rams fans.

They have a lot of people that go to that building, even though it seems like they get outnumbered all the time.

They do, but that's also the way a shifting dynamic in the way people attend games and everybody likes to come to Southern California late in the year.

I'm just throwing that out there.

Yes.

But I want to say like to your point, like

how they've handled Cooper Cup is such an example of the confidence I think that that organization operates with.

Many teams would be Cooper Cup is a sacred cow.

A guy, he's like this popular.

If you go to a Rams game of the Rams fans there, you will see 50% of them in the cup jerseys.

I mean, he is a fan favorite.

He's a Super Bowl hero.

He won the Triple Crown a few years ago.

And the fact that they very quickly identified, okay, he's not now at the same level as he was.

He's maybe not worth the value that we once put on him.

We're getting him out of here.

It seemed cold-blooded, but also a team that doesn't operate in the prism of like, and maybe to the point that you guys were making, like, they don't have to worry about, let's say, a market in New York, for example, where how the back pages are going to handle it and how the talk radio is going to handle it.

It's not going to be a firestorm about how can they disrespect Cooper Cup.

It's like they're just going to go about their business and

they have a track record that they'll probably make the right play with that situation.

Just throw them all in the ocean.

It doesn't matter.

But I, to you, so let me put it to you this way.

Would you rather be the Rams and talking about a situation where you're taking the high-priced guys on your roster and moving on and converting it to draft capital and doing something different for it or would you rather be someone like the bengals who are taking the highest echelon of your roster the upper end the guys who are in their 28 28 29 30 31 year old seasons and talking about paying them to the point where it ties you to them for the foreseeable future and i don't know i think with the way that less has turned things over i'm more attracted to that option at this point and they let it go they let it go to the very end and it's over you know

well because they've shown they can do it and they can draft well.

So if you can do it, you can do it.

You, Mark, have also, um,

you said, have a connection to Matthew Stafford.

So let's move to a different area of the

uh

this really almost like an uh airport hangar area, the convention center, uh, where who is speaking?

Yeah, he's over in the right corner.

It's New York Giants head coach,

Brian Dable.

Tell the truth,

yeah, and uh, thank you, Justin.

Justin's like, I'm going to keep you on your toes at all moments here.

So here's Brian Dable, and he gets up to the lectern.

That is not what it's like.

In fact,

when you are in

the scrum,

there's a few national reporters up front that are, you know, they're kind of hanging brain and letting you know who's what's what.

You might have, like in the old days when Dion was at NFL network, Deion just moseys over and then goes behind the setup and gets in the ear for a question.

And the rest of us just wait for the perfect time, Connor, to call out a question without getting spoken over.

And there's always the guy from Sirius XM Fantasy that's just like, you know, and again, everybody's question is equally important, but these coaches come up and they're just like, they've just survived losing their job and they're leaving their families again.

And someone's like, do you have a snap count for Bryce Ford Wheaton this year in terms of of like you know and where does he rank in terms of your uh roto ball wideouts uh this this season yeah those guys are annoying there's three annoying types in the uh combine press conference because again there's a finite amount of time one is that guy fantasy guy

Another is the person who doesn't know what's what and is asking detailed questions about players that are under contract with other teams.

So they take up the time for the question, which is typically long-winded, and only for the GM or coach to be like, well, we can't speak about that player in the way that you want me to because that is against league rules.

That's a huge waste of time.

And then, really, the one that we had the most fun with in the old days at ATN, which was the guy who's clearly working on a feature piece about something very

specific,

let's say the interior offensive line growth of the entire league.

And then he asks this hyper

in-depth question that leads to the GM or the coach who basically want to run out the clock on these press conferences, answering it in detailed form.

And then everyone else is like, why did seven minutes of these 15 minutes get taken up talking about how developing backup guards is how you build a winner in the NFL?

And it's often the last question.

Like one more question, then guy drops left guard question, and he goes to every major interview.

And so you hear the same guy doing it over and over.

I had one in like insane encounter where I was at the Super Bowl.

It was Ravens Niners, and you're you're up in the bleachers, and I was interviewing, it was Ozzie Newsom, and there were a bunch of us.

And it was like, you know, Ozzy Newsome, Hall of Fame Browns tight end, who's now the GM of the Ravens, and I had a soft question.

I just was gonna, I just wanted to meet him.

But then Sal Palantonio comes barnstorming up with like two giant camera, you know, the cameramen that just like push him around the way with a deer antler spray question for Ozzie Newsome, like a hard-hitting like deer antler spray question.

And like Ozzie is just sitting there like, what?

Like, I can't even speak about this.

Sal and the cameramen leave, and he's staring like a deer in headlights.

I was like, would you like an easier question, Ozzy?

And he's like, yes, thank you, please.

So, like, these guys, you got

all the types.

They're very annoying.

And by the way,

just sitting up at the lectern at this point.

He's just up there waiting for us to stop our side discussion.

The floor is yours, Mr.

Dable.

So here he goes.

Note to media members, I am largely hungover.

It's the kind of hangover where a full disclosure, I had my New York Giants maid servant Jackie Banquet, order me two pots of coffee, poached eggs, candied bacon, sourdough toast, waffles, a fruit cup, a vat of apple juice, and six Thomas English muffins, fat side, thin side, nooks and crannies with the butter.

I attempted to take this all down through my mouth while she nestled beside me in her bathrobe as we watched ridiculousness.

This is the NFL combine.

I was out late, and you might think Dayball, who's slimmed down, is back on his old trail of tears, ripping through hamburger joints and and smoking cigars in back rooms with Jaja Gabor's great-granddaughter.

Incorrect, sir.

I was out late with a Ram's deep throat.

We talked, Matthew Stafford, deep into the night.

11 p.m., steaks, mashed potatoes, honey, virgin olive oil, steins of beer.

12 a.m., large Russian vodkas.

1 a.m., whiskeys from Red, White, and Blue Land.

2 a.m., Mescal, 5 counts, seeing new worlds.

3 a.m., Jackie Banquet picks me up in her lush lavender Mercedes and takes me back to the NFL's hotel.

That's me me doing the dirty work.

The GM is a family man.

He's in bed by 8 p.m.

with a Cobb salad in downtown Abbey blaring on his team-issued iPad.

I do the man's work deep into the night on the streets.

Matthew Stafford is very real to the G-Men.

If I don't get a quarterback, I can trust.

My ass is grass.

I went to Rochester University in upstate New York.

If you were born in upstate New York, you do the dirty work.

You stay out late and nail the conversation.

You don't sleep in your bed like Baba Black Sheep.

I'll be with the New York Giants for a a thousand years because I've carved out a plan to bring Stafford here and not for a first-round pick.

And then we draft Travis Hunter.

Then your ass is grass.

I'll take questions now.

Wow.

Again, we appreciate the honesty here.

And

I will say that

that is true that these guys get ripped up

in Indianapolis.

They all do.

I remember a shithammer shithammered Rex Ryan at that hamburger joint.

Steak and shake.

Steak and shake.

Prime 47 is the steakhouse where a lot of conversations are had.

And absolutely, Dable strikes me as one of those guys that's closing out Prime 47 deep in conversation.

That is,

remember John Elway, by the way?

Elway would get more ripped up than anyone.

And he would book the latest press conference.

The last one.

It'd be like the 4 o'clock because he had Signardi and it was John Elway.

But even a 4 p.m.

press conference, a day after a night out in Indianapolis, Elaway would still look like he just woke up.

Like, okay, these guys are in a different level.

That would be the stupidest thing ever, by the way, if the Giants went after a 37-year-old quarterback.

You think so?

Yeah.

I don't know if you're going to be able to do that.

What's the point?

What's the point?

What's your goal?

What's your goal?

Keep your job.

Win the division.

That's what it's about.

You're just making decisions for your own personal well-being.

This is not.

That's why I want my organization to run.

He's being honest, I guess.

This is a great quarterback, though.

Yeah, but where does he fit in on the New York Giants right now when they have the commanders and Eagles in their division?

This is exactly the point I was making last week with the New York teams.

You've got to build smart.

Why try to win nine games?

Let me ask you.

Sustainably build yourself.

One question.

If you're Dayball and you're hanging on by a thread at this point, right?

After what's happened, you've lost your quarterback and running back that you drafted are gone.

But if you got Stafford and didn't have to give up your number one pick and you did get like a Travis Hunter and you pair him with the Malik neighbors and you have Matthew Stafford, you have got something there.

You are selling tickets and you could, you are winning games.

That would be my argument.

Maybe.

Are we, how certain are we that an old Matthew Stafford playing in the Northeast in cold, miserable conditions behind a shitty offensive line is even going to play well?

Like, I totally disagree with this.

I don't think he should be anywhere near the Giants.

So

I'm going to defend Mark here.

I think you get Andrew Thomas back who was hurt all of last year.

I think that some teams have shown that

you can rebuild an offensive line or at least fortify an offensive line in an offseason to some degree.

But this idea, and I've had to, I've heard from so many Giants fans about this.

Well, now that the Eagles and the Commanders are awesome forever, the Commanders might not make the playoffs next year.

The fact that this team had a good run in the postseason, think of all the things that had to happen for the Commanders, missed field goals.

The Giants not having a kicker twice, you know, or the Hail Mary game against the Bears, which propelled them.

And some of these veterans they're not going to have on the team for next year.

And so I just think that we automatically put this team on an ascension track again.

The Eagles are losing their offensive coordinator again, and they had a down, well, a 10-a 10-win down season the last time that they lost their offensive coordinator.

So I think, and the other team is coached by Brian Schottenheimer.

So I think it's like, let's go.

Get Matt Stafford and win 10 games and see what the hell happens.

And I like Dable too.

I do too.

I mean, yeah, sure.

We like Dable.

He hasn't done really much since that first year, but

I just think the path for these teams, it's much smarter to follow.

You know, like

build this thing up slowly.

Like get somebody, a young quarterback, and then use that money that you would pay for a veteran quarterback as a bridge and use it on your offensive line and adding a playmaker with bleak neighbors.

But that's also, I guess, to your point, Mark, that's also not maybe how you keep your job because there's more risk to trying to develop a QB.

Don't you please the owner if you suddenly pair Matthew Stafford with a high draft pick and a star wide receiver?

I mean, part of it is like they're a little bit, they're in a bit of a weird situation.

I think Dayball is on a hot seat.

I don't think it's his fault, but I think he's on a hot seat.

So, like, like do you are you a little more desperate to get someone proven that's why i think it might there's what is kelly staffords factor in on moving to the suburbs of new jersey i don't that's the other part of this

maybe high maybe

she's welcome here we're we're great i think every we

we're well i i don't know i don't i know i don't know anything about i'm not up on the whole on her takes on things on life so i will have to i'll have to go back and do kind of a pod deep dive but i would say um

i would say here in in the new new jersey suburbs we've got all kinds got all kinds of people um let's move over to a different area and oh look at that it's kyle shanahan head coach of the san francisco 49ers and he has a bit

he has a bit of a weird look in his eyes he looks upset he looks filled with anxiety and almost dread like this conversation

this place in life let's check in with kyle

I'm scared.

Is that what you want to hear?

You feel good seeing a man up here?

The whites of my eyes.

You see the fear in my face?

Make it feel like a big man, Mr.

Media, Mr.

Birkenstocks, Connor Orr, over there.

Oh, you got one on me now.

No longer the top of the world.

Holy shit.

The window's closed.

It's over.

It's over.

And I worried about it.

Two years ago at the Super Bowl, I thought to myself,

uh-oh, I got two cracks at the Super Bowl.

I blew both games.

And now what?

Now what?

I'm going to pay Brock Purdy $60 million a year now?

That's how that's the path back to the Super Bowl?

Debo Samuel?

That guy that we paid all the money?

He runs like a 7,440 now.

Now I got to find a way to trade him.

I got to get him off the team.

Ugh.

Brandon Ayuk, the guy that ruined my summer last year?

My summer?

My trip to Athens?

Compromised?

He's not even going to be ready for the start of the season, probably.

And I don't even know if we see Brandon Ayuk be Ayuk again until 2026.

Oh, at least I got Trent Williams, my left tackle, stalwart, future hall.

What?

He's turning 37?

He's coming off an injury-wrecked 15th season in the league.

Holy shit.

The window closed.

It's over.

And now,

and now I'm the face of this slow march to irrelevance.

I'll open up the floor to questions.

Wow.

That was well done.

I've never really seen Shanahan not appear kind of totally confident and alpha about things.

So that's a.

Wait a second.

Wait a second.

We've talked about it.

Basically, every sideline shot as that season in 2024 spun out of control.

Oh, he, right.

Where all all of a sudden he had like a gray beard and a thousand-yard stare on the sideline.

Like,

this has been building.

Oh, he got a lot of people.

He got Obama last year.

There's no doubt about that.

He suddenly aged by about 12 years.

I don't doubt about the appearance there, but

this is a confident guy.

But you're like, let's start with the first point you made.

You're down entirely.

on the idea of sticking with Brock Purdy on a big contract.

I think they're boxed in on it.

I think from my standpoint, I don't think, and maybe like this ties into the conversation that you were talking about earlier in the show, Connor, like

maybe you get him closer to the Jalen Hurts territory of 51, like 50 million, but 50 to 60 million a year for Purdy.

And I know opinions vary on Brock Purdy.

I think I don't see a big difference personally in Purdy and like Sam Darnold, where I think that Purdy

take him out of this offense with this play caller, with the right playmakers around him, and you stick him in New York with the Giants as an example, I don't think it's very pretty.

But also, what are you going to do

if you don't resign Purdy?

Like, who's a better option?

So I think they're just going to pay him, and that...

That is just going to make the job harder because they had, again, the window when Purdy was making nothing as literally Mr.

Irrelevant, and you missed it.

You missed that window, which was a huge advantage.

It's just one of the things.

So it's not so much about having a conversation.

Is Brock Purdy worth it?

Should they do it?

Because they're going to do it, everything we hear.

It's more about like, okay, now once that happens and he's getting paid $50 to $60 million

average annual value, like, all right, now how do we go about this with that built in?

I think that we're focused a little bit too much on the finances of it.

I mean, the Eagles were able to pay Jalen Hurts, whatever it is, $54 million a year and still have A.J.

Brown and Devonta Smith on an extension and Jordan Milotta on an extension and all these other guys making a ton of money.

And the cap is going to go up.

You're going to have more room now given the revenue increase.

And the other thing, too, with Purdy is you can, you know, a lot of these things are just pushing the finances to the point where you basically don't have to give it to them anymore.

And so we're going to be fed this big number.

And I'm not making the platitude point where it's like these contracts aren't what we say they are.

That's true.

But it's even more so than that, where, you know, they can backload the crap out of this deal.

They can still have the room to make one or two more runs with George Kittle, with Trent Williams, with whatever you get for Debo Samuel.

And they're really great at generating comp picks and a lot of that stuff.

And so can some of these guys come up and be valuable contributors to the team?

I don't see it as a dire thing because we've just seen over and over again that the money really doesn't matter.

Okay, really.

And I hear that.

I hear that.

And that's why I'm not freaking out about about the Purdy thing.

I'm merely pointing out that they had a window of four years there where he was making nothing, right?

He was making nothing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I still,

so like, but again, if you had to sign him this year, you could still make the cap number like a million dollars, right?

And so don't you think that this constitutes still in the window then, if you were able to do it like that?

I would argue that like quarterback salaries, because of this massive increase in the cap, haven't even caught up to what the cap is.

And forward-thinking teams, there's four or five of them around the league that have mastered pushing money down the road to the point where like it will again be less and less important as the cap grows.

I think you're sort of saying, Dan, like you don't really, the window with Brock Purdy was there.

They didn't get it done.

And someone like a Sam Darnold is the equivalent of a Brock Purdy.

So why pay him like a Jalen Hurts Plus?

I guess my question is, unless you've really kind of given up on the pursuit and you move on from Brock Purdy and you don't pay him, and I think what they will, we also.

But I'm not saying that's what's going to happen.

They are going to pay Purdy.

I also think, like, does this team draft well?

They've made some massive draft errors, especially at the quarterback position.

They've missed on some stuff.

Do I trust their coaching staff and their front office to sign stars and to keep going?

I do.

I don't see a window closing, but I do see a team that I think felt exhausted last season, exhausted by all that's happening.

So it is a question mark on where they are coming into this year.

Can they just bounce back and be a 12, 13 win team?

I don't know.

That's a question.

I didn't even mention, by the the way, Christian McCaffrey.

Not only was the season totally wiped out, he just ran up to the podium again.

Like, I didn't mention CMC.

Not only was my generational running back that was the centerpiece in my previous Super Bowl run basically missed the whole year with lower body injuries, they were the type of lower body injuries that were like, well, that was weird.

Oh, both his Achilles don't work right.

Oh, then, oh, and then his calf blew up.

It's like the type of things like, I think we might have already seen the best of Christian McCaffrey, who he himself is under a big contract with a lot of money coming his way.

Like,

it's it's not so much, it's not just like should they or should they not pay Brock Purdy.

I'm looking at the greater roster and wondering, yeah, they can can they open up the window again?

Sure, but I think the window did close last year.

It was more than just we're a tired team, and now they have to figure out how to jack it open again and hit on a draft and free agency go to work.

But it's like, are the Niners a latter stage as Joe Biden, TBD,

Exactly.

All right, there you go.

A lot of interesting subplots to track at the combine.

There were three.

Pivot, AdRaid, Mark Sezler.

Well, this is for Connor and everyone out there.

But hey, by the way, did you know that underdog, they're not just higher-lower pick'em entries, okay?

They also have streaks.

You can enter for $1, get a nice streak going, and win as much as 1,000 times your entry.

Or Or if you have a nice streak and you don't want to risk it anymore, you can cash your streak out anytime.

Connor, that's for you.

Check out streaks by scanning the QR code on your screen to download the underdog app or sign up with the code HTC and receive up to $1,000 in bonus credit.

For our U.S.

audience,

only.

We're back.

Hey, I know we all prepared a couple

for the segment, and Connor, I want to apologize

We're not going to get to your second presser because I know whenever someone involves a prop, I feel like it's a bit of a missed opportunity.

Connor, so do you want to reveal what you have something up your sleeve quite literally right now?

Yeah, so I've been hiding this bin

the whole time.

And then when you were going to go to Todd Bowles, I was going to say, I was going to pull it out.

And then I was going to put it on.

What a moment it would have been.

And then,

and then, but, but the problem, the fault in the bit, right, is that like the whole premise is that this season Todd Bowles is just going to talk like a pirate the whole year.

So there's really nothing to talk about with the Buccaneers in general.

I just think they're just kind of a boring team.

And the fact that Todd Bowles wants to talk like a pirate the whole year.

So the bit would have peaked with the bandana reveal.

So I think it kind of worked out.

I think it very slowly.

For a show with a large audio-only listenership.

Yeah, good episode maneuver.

Way to self-edit or you nailed it.

Dick.

Connor, Mark, Justin, we're just getting going this week.

We're gonna

we're going to

be all over the combine.

Like I said, Lance Erline coming up, maybe some other guests as we get into this

kind of the kickoff week of of the offseason in a lot of ways.

I'm excited.

Well, we've never done an offseason in this fashion with Heed the Call, and I think that we're going to do it in a way that's organic to us.

And like, by the way, Lance, like

he can, he can throw it back at you.

I've done my

mock draft, which I've done, you know, like it's not taken seriously by literally anyone in the media, but he made it very clear that it's not to be taken seriously in the past.

But this time around, I hope to.

We might have to run that seg back.

Lance just undressing your mock draft pick by pick is something that brings me great joy.

He was rendered to giggles, like male giggles, about what I'd come up with.

So that's fair.

All right, good stuff.

Thank you to everybody for checking out the Monday show.

We'll be back soon.

Until then, do what you must.

Heed the call.

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