Why NFL Fans Hate the Chiefs + Free Agency Look-Ahead

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You losers want to do a podcast or what?

I can do a solo show, no big deal.

The Heed the Call Podcast

has their finger on the pulse of New Orleans.

Welcome, day two,

New Orleans, Heed the Call, Dan Hansis, Mark Sessler.

And the voice of Heed the Call, Jason Zumwalt.

How is everybody?

I just want to point out, if you're watching this and you should be on YouTube,

the leg area of Jason.

I mean, we've talked about this a little bit.

These are large, muscular legs.

Yeah.

You've got a theory for why that is, but.

Yeah, they carry around 350 pounds of man.

They better be large and muscular.

You know, before we did our first show on Monday, or on Tuesday, I should say,

Jay came into my room.

We're here in the Heat House, of course, at Underdog Manor.

And Jay Jay was wearing these shorts and like, I don't know if they were these shorts exactly and a t-shirt.

And I was like, all right, we're about to start.

So do you want to go upstairs and get dressed?

And he's like, what do you mean?

I'm dressed.

And then

you changed into pants.

And then I didn't know this since you moved to Connecticut, that you went from being all jeans all the time guy to now you're in what I call your Kyle gas of tenacious D phase.

Yes.

Where it's just, it's short shorts and a big man and a t-shirt.

And I said, I apologize for asking you or insinuating that you should change I want

yeah I want you to be exactly what makes you comfortable on the show so here he is in his Hendrix tea in his gym shorts I'm shorts and winter guy overgrown beard embarrassing my family guy

I was gonna ask because you um you are married um and that's not a surprise to us uh

did i mention the phoenix sun sandals as well right we've got that going with his initials on them by the way gotta have the initials

it up how does the um significant other um how does she feel about your new fashion um approach to life?

She purchased the sandals.

Let's go above sandals.

She wishes I would wear more clothes and look more like a normal dad in Connecticut.

Because right now it's like 20 degrees in Connecticut.

Correct.

That's part of the irony.

And I'm shorts and winter guy.

Yeah.

And she's also, let's be totally real, she's in too deep.

She's married in the middle of Connecticut.

You got two kids.

This is it.

This is what she signed up for, whether she realized it or not.

By the way, the Zum Open there,

we are real in too deep.

Thank you.

Thanks, Justin, for telegraphing that to us verbally.

Well, it was so late I had to give the context.

This is one of those before we start rolling, or like we openly are wondering if he had hit the edibles before we started rolling.

No, we're not wondering.

Yeah.

No, we mentioned in the open that we're real New Orleans people.

Some people are just the basics that just know Bourbon Street or whatever.

But we can say that we're more connected to the city because we yesterday wandered aimlessly in the area of the French Quarter yesterday, stumbled into not one, but two gay bars.

Jay ordered a drink at one of them.

That's fine.

That's cool.

He did Miley Cyrus with the bartender.

Then found...

He got along well.

Yeah, then happened upon a quite vibrant art scene in New Orleans.

I was like, oh, look at us.

Look at us.

Walking through the art scene.

Then a voodoo sector of some kind.

Went into a voodoo shop.

We all got merch.

No, we didn't.

No, you guys spent about 28.

It's like when you're a child waiting, that's what it feels like when you're waiting for your parents to go into some sort of store and it's like 35 minutes later and you're still milling around.

And then you're killing me for not being able to.

Yeah, for supporting the arts and the local scene.

Yeah, of course I do.

Mark's like, oh, can we get to Walmart already?

God, I got to go to Target.

No, I was not saying that.

What are you afraid of?

Yeah, let's connect the dots.

Mark, who has a voodoo curse upon teams that he connects with not wanting to go into the voodoo shop as if I don't need to put put any more dark magic within me, so I'm staying out of the shop entirely.

We picked up on that.

So it's a very small store, and I just did a loop, and I was like, I'm good.

It was a quick loop, you know, and I, yeah, it had a strange feeling to it.

Maybe I took you in there to remove your curse from my team, the Arizona Cardinals.

Ooh, but he wouldn't go in.

He wouldn't go in.

Right.

So they're effed again, is what you're saying.

It's still in action.

F'd in 25.

Then we found a house.

We saw a house for sale.

And this is why this is an amazing city, no matter what Connor Orr says, that actually advertised itself as for sale.

And then underneath it, another sign, haunted.

It's like,

that's part of the pitch to buy the.

Love that.

Well.

You guys going to talk some spirits on an upcoming episode of

a guest who's sitting in the middle of the middle of the program again?

Rolling Thunder.

Rolling Thunder.

With Mark and Jason.

Available exclusively on the Heath the Call Patriots.

What's this week's episode?

Wait, was that you?

Did you see that?

Was that a drop saying, what's this week's episode?

Oh, wow.

His mouth did not move.

He's high.

And I thought I was having like a, you know,

check out Rolling Thunder from New Orleans.

That's going to be on the Patreon.

And I think that will be my debut on that program.

Finally, we ended last night with a dinner at this delicious,

cool vibes.

It's called called N7.

It's a French Japanese fusion restaurant.

It was a heed the call dinner.

It was very nice.

Who did we see there?

Well, you know, you're in a good local spot.

We met a wonderful woman that was bartending our first day here named Elise

at the pothole somewhere in the French quarter.

And she said, go to N7.

That's like a real joint in Chanel's courtyard.

And there's the entire front office of the Philadelphia Eagles leaving as we're sitting down, including Howie Roseman.

So, you know, for them to go where they went, we got good advice.

I mean, this is ours after we went to

a regular bar, and we saw Ocho Cinco march by.

We saw Taylor LeWan, which Justin was back here at the house editing the show, and I thought he'd be a little jealous.

I was jealous.

Yeah.

Then Justin informed us you should have told him about me, as if I was going to interrupt Taylor LeWan on his cell phone to tell him about Justin.

Did you mention me?

Like, our producer is a huge Titans fan, maybe.

I don't know.

He was on his phone, and he was, you know,

it would have felt inappropriate.

Excuse me, you would have been confused.

Yeah.

Some guys you don't know.

There's another guy you don't know who is a huge fan, just so you know.

Some guys you don't know.

Another guy you don't know.

He's a former professional athlete.

He probably has random people coming up to tell him they're huge fans all the time.

And I'm sure he loves it.

He also has a competing podcast with the colours.

When I was just trying to like talk on the phone outside a bar, like, yeah, my producer likes you.

No, that's okay, though.

Like, he was, and, and we understand you're doing great work, Justin, and you're dealing with the Luca Donches thing.

And obviously, Luca was on the show yesterday, which was very cool.

And thank you again to Luca and all his people for joining us.

Absolutely.

So you've been a pro this week, and we really respect you for it.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Doing my best.

All right.

I agree with what Dan said.

He won't say it himself.

Justin has been an asset to us, man.

I said very nice things to Justin at dinner last night sitting next to him.

Is that true?

Yeah.

Many, many nice things.

Did you get it down on...

Did you record it?

No.

Yeah, you should have.

I don't need to because Mark says nice things to me all the time.

Right, infinitely.

Really?

Absolutely.

That's great.

You guys got a tech start going on where it's just niceness coming from?

Throwing niceties back and forth like

ping-pong players.

Yes.

Very nice.

It's accurate.

Very nice.

Hey,

this is today Mark's the four-year-old,

but it's been four years since we lost Chris Wesling, our former podcast partner.

I spent the flight from LA to New Orleans,

and thank you to you, Mark, and I reached out to Connie, and she sent me a bunch of photos and put together a photo gallery,

like a montage of all our memories that we had with Wes, which really was,

you know, I enjoy doing that.

It reminds you of kind of what we lost, but also a reminder of what we had in our time with Wes, which is crazy because when you think about it, Sesta, we met Wes in 2013

and he was gone by 2021, so it was a small window, but packed like a whole lifetime of memories with Chris.

Yeah,

you put together something that was ideal because it kind of reminded you of these different phases of Wes because when he rolled into LA from Tybee Island, he was about as much of a bachelor as you could draw up.

And, I mean, I spent a lot of time with him, and as did you, going out to the bars, talking about life.

And then there was like the life side where he was just an absolute joy.

And you get a couple beers in a Wes and like the esoteric comments and the wild debates about, you know, we always get debates about like paper napkins and stuff.

But then there was the work side where when we started our show,

you know, it was the four of us and we were each very different people.

And I think Wes grew into this.

Like, he started out having never done it, you know, not unlike us to some degree, but like he just became Wes over the years.

And it was the mix of the incredible football knowledge, the football writing, but just the thoughts about life, but then his laugh.

Like I've gone back and listened to some stuff and Wes could change an entire podcast or podcast segment by just tumbling into laughter where he can't control himself.

And so you really feel like the absence in every aspect of life post-Wes and it's hard to comprehend that we lost when we did'cause it was during COVID COVID and a very tough situation there.

Yeah, and the fact that it happened, you know, when he passed away, it was two days before the Super Bowl.

And so many, just looking through so many of the photos, naturally, so many were at the different Super Bowl trips that we took over the years, and how that was our chance to, you know, get together, be staying in the same hotel, be going out together, working, like all that stuff, all that, all those great memories.

And

the COVID aspect of of how

when the cancer came back and it being in the middle of this global pandemic crisis, you know, the day before he passed away, you and I were at, I think it was St.

John's Medical Center in Santa Monica and we couldn't even go see him.

Like we were downstairs outside the building because of COVID restrictions and

you know, his brother came out and Lakeisha came out and and then when you know we learned the news and I remember being in my garage at my old place and, you know, calling different people and, you know, sharing this, like that, that sadness of what happened four years ago is something that sticks with you forever.

But

and then when an event like this happens, you know, I wish he was sitting with us right now because he would have loved what we're, what we're doing right now.

I can't speak for what would have happened if Wes was around.

But I think Wes, what we were doing here with Underdog and what he the call represents, he the call, which if you know, is actually something that Wes lived by and was kind of a phrase that he put on the map for us.

And we've used as a guiding light for this show and this second phase of our career together.

I think he would have really enjoyed what we're doing now.

And no matter what would have happened,

we would have had

a lot of great memories to build on.

So we just appreciate what we got to have with him, even though it wasn't enough.

Yeah, and his life changed when he met Lakeisha.

And of course, Link came into that world.

And I was just watching the first day I met Wes to the very end.

Like a true, he always talked about evolving and wanting to grow.

And he, he, like the one thing about Wes, like, he wasn't a perfect person.

Like, his imperfections were what he loved about other people.

And he always would demand, he's like, if I'm on a date a woman, she's going to have to be imperfect.

Like, he'd say stuff like that.

And it's like, well, Lakeisha's pretty perfect, but you embraced your own imperfections.

And he really did grow and change.

And it's the kind of thing where he'd have these huge parties.

And anyone that came over who had not met him like he'd leave an imprint on him and he did that on us in every possible way yes he did so Chris Wesling wherever you are buddy we love you and

and we miss you and the show exists in part to kind of carry on Wes's legacy and our friendship.

It's about me.

It is.

Like this show is about you and this time of year, it's always we're thinking about you.

And Lakeisha and Link are actually coming into LA next week and she's going to be staying staying with us.

So that's the part of Wes we do get to keep is our relationship with Lakeisha.

And of course, young Link, who, again, there was so everything about it, Mark, was so tragic, but there is something

beautiful, sad, but beautiful that like as Wes left the earth, Link had just arrived.

So here he is, a part of Wes lives on.

Yeah, and you can see, like, Link is already growing up, and you can see Wes in his eyes.

He's a little smile.

He really is.

He's got, like, not on like you, Jason.

Wes had some big, thick calves, and that was one of his physical hallmarks.

Yeah, Lincoln is already getting into sports.

I saw him playing basketball on Instagram.

He's out there having fun.

Wes loved talking about his calves.

Yeah, one of the first times we met was at a Wessel Mania out on the seaside.

That's right.

That's right.

I think that was the night when Sestog, at one point, at the end of the night, if I recall, Jay, I know you were there, you remember it.

You started swinging at me, and all I could think or all I could say was, real punches, real punches,

raining, raining rights and left.

And I think Jason became part of that too at some point.

Yeah, I think it started with me.

I think you asked me politely, can I punch you in the face?

And yeah, I was like, no, you don't have any unchecked issues marked deep within it.

You're fine.

And I was like, yeah, go ahead.

Clean slate.

And then he punched me, punched me in the face, knocked my glasses off.

And I was like, oh, he really meant it.

And then all of a sudden, I saw him punching everyone else.

And I was like, oh, it's a party.

It's just what we do here at WrestleMania.

Good stuff.

Yes, WrestleMania.

There were three of them, I believe.

All right.

Let's shall we do a little read, ad read here, Justin?

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It is suggestive to assume that these people have friends.

Yeah.

Like, I mean, probably a lot of, you know, if you're lonely, you can also go do this.

You may not, maybe you have no connection to others, and so this would be a good outlet for you.

It's a nice icebreaker.

I sell.

You know?

You, person, alone at the bar.

Right.

Do you want to gamble on underdog?

It's not gambling, Jason.

Oh, what is it?

Gaming.

Can we get Jason out of here?

Yeah.

You've been ejected from the heat.

Does to turn in my merch?

You can keep the merch, but get the hell out of here, sir.

All right.

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Oh, Chiefs derangement syndrome.

It's a thing.

It's a thing.

Let's get into it, Mark.

Let's talk a little bit about where the Chiefs are right now.

Oh, someone's here.

Who's there?

Who could this be?

Come on in.

Oh, look at that.

It's Pete Sweeney,

our buddy, Arrowhead Pride.

What's up, pal?

Come take a seat.

Welcome to the Heat House at Underdog Manor.

Wow, well, that was lucky.

We are.

It's good timing.

Completely natural.

Totally not at all stages.

Total Spanish.

Is this the right house for Markapalooza?

Markapalooza is starting up right at sundown.

That's correct.

Yes.

You're invited.

It's wild out there.

I mean, I feel like the city is filling up and people are excited for this game.

Now, I like the symmetry of Pete's appearance today because he was on the show with us from Arrowhead, the Thursday night opener, the famous Isaiah Likely toes-up game, was it?

Or was it heel-up?

I can't remember what it was.

It was the right toe.

Yeah, we lose track of all these miraculous moments that fall in favor of the Chiefs.

But along those lines, right,

when we spoke in early September, the narrative hadn't hardened about the Chiefs, we're sick of the Chiefs.

From the perspective of how you cover the team and you've been doing it for over a decade,

what has it been like to kind of become the Patriots in terms of the national viewpoint of the team?

Quite frankly, the exhaustion with Chiefs.

Yeah, I think I have a unique perspective because I got there, what was the second year of Andy Reid?

If you can think back that long, they had just had that excruciating loss to Andrew Luck and the Colts

in the playoffs.

Was that 45, 44, something like that?

Yeah, it was one point.

And,

you know, from that point, the Chiefs fans were excited that they finally had a playoff team.

And it's funny how a fan base of a winning team and winning to this extent evolves because it went from, all right, you know, now we're a perennial playoff team, much like you're kind of seeing with the Pittsburgh Steelers now.

You know, when are we going to get over the hump?

And I think there was a belief that Alex could do it, but I think the organization eventually realized if there's a quarterback that we like and maybe not even like, we love available, we're going to go and get him.

And so it evolved to Patrick Mahomes.

And then suddenly, when you watch the Mahomes, you're like, well, after years and years and decades and decades, we finally have a homegrown franchise guy.

And then it was this thirst for Super Bowls.

and I think in the 19th season the Chiefs were pretty likable I think they were everyone's you know they're the new big thing and then as time has gone on and you went a second okay you start losing a little bit of that support you go back to back you lose a little bit more of that support and then Suddenly you go from this fan base that was dying to just see postseason football to one that is very clearly the new Patriots fan base and with that comes well watching every official with a magnifying glass, what call is Patrick Mahomes getting?

And now

they've become villains to an extent.

It's tough to, they're not really, you know, braggadocious at the podium, but it's just from a product of winning games.

And yeah, I mean, certain calls have gone their way for sure.

And they don't have multiple cheating scandals, and we're not deflating footballs and all this hoopla amid all that.

So

I think it's a stretch to call them villains.

I would more ask you this because it kind of reminds me of when when Pete Carroll and his message tired with some of the Seahawks veterans and players.

It seems like with Andy Reid, it's just they find a way to regalvanize and refresh the story inside the locker room year after year.

Like, how does he do it?

Yeah, I think the biggest thing for Andy is he sets the tone at the beginning of the year, and he does that in the opening night of training camp.

They have this famous meeting where Clark Hunt, the owner, and Andy speak to the team.

Like, one of the things that Andy always says is the fastest way out of here is if you lie to me.

And Kareem Hunt lived that.

And he wasn't there at training camp.

But I mean, it's that type of messaging.

And one thing they always do is set the goal.

And, you know, you hear Andy, and it drives us in the media crazy.

That night, he'll tell the players, I'm never going to air you out in the media.

So there's never any blame from Andy Reid.

You know, he always says, this one's on me.

And it's just like, well, I guess we can just dig into the film and figure it out ourselves, Andy.

Thank you for nothing.

But the players buy into it, and he's a players' coach.

And I think when Patrick also speaks at that meeting and sets the tone, one thing that was,

I think, a clip that went around a lot is immediately after beating the 49ers last year, he was talking to Chris Jones, whose contract situation was up in the air on the stage.

And he said, you know, you're not going anywhere, dog.

We want to do three because no one has ever done it.

Talking 15 minutes after.

And I think he carried that through the offseason, bled into training camp.

And the whole organization has bought in.

And, you know, I think it success is fleeting, and I think they realize that.

And Patrick Mahomes, I think stemming from his dad playing professional sports younger, has this knowledge that maybe quarterbacks, even at his age of 29,

this realization that this can go away fast.

And so we need to bring it every single year.

Going back to what you're talking about, this kind of evolution of the organization.

About 10 years ago, now I had a summer series at NFL Media called The Pain Pain Rankings.

And it was the fan bases that have suffered the most.

And I think I did seven teams.

And the Chiefs were one of the teams.

I think the reason was I think that was coming right off the heels of that horrible Andrew Luck loss where they blew that huge lead and lost right at the end of the game.

And to see them go from where they are now to now being in a place where they could put a bunch of coin in Pat Riley's pockets, who I just learned today, copyright.

He got a

trademark to three Pete, like back when he was the Lakers coach.

And

that, first of all, that's amazing.

Good job, Pat.

Smart guy.

And

the fact that they have a chance to do this and be part of history.

And you look across all the major sports.

Riley, what he trademarked, he didn't even pull off because the Lakers fell short that year.

They got beat by the Pistons in the early 90s.

We know the Bulls did it twice with Jordan.

My Yankees did it in the late 90s to early 2000s.

Then the Lakers did it.

That's it.

And it's never happened in the the NFL, and people could be exhausted.

And you mentioned deflated balls.

I've been wondering since we got to Heath House why this ball is deflated.

It must be a callback to the old era of the Patriots.

You know, not all props are created equal.

I don't play too in touch with deflated football.

I was just throwing it out there.

Yeah, no, I get that, and I respect that.

And I think some of the

funny clip that we played there, the Chiefs' derangement syndrome, I feel like we're grasping at straws, looking for something to hate about the organization when people should just, I think, have respect for what they've pulled off.

And one thing I wanted to talk to you, because you know this team better than anyone, obviously Reed,

obviously Spaggs, obviously Mahomes, Kelsey, you have these cornerstone guys that are the building, like the foundation of it.

But let's talk about that 2022 draft, which in so many ways, right, that's the reason why this is still happening right now.

When you go through how many starters how many at all levels of the team how they set up that uh they set them up to uh to go on this extended run now trent mcduffie george carloftis leo chanel jalen watson brian cook isaiah pacheco like all these guys uh in one draft call the cops they they stole the draft exactly they stole the draft what a master class and that's how they've extended this window right this smart drafting it's not just those uh foundational people yeah no and that was a huge draft.

And I'm not sure it made it to the national media, but the defensive backs coach, I believe it was that training camp, Dave Merritt, who is

teased as this potential defensive coordinator candidate.

I know that the 49ers had interest in last offseason, and we're talking about that.

But he is sharp-tongued, and the players really love him.

Anyway, he comes to the podium in training camp, and they drafted five defensive backs in that draft.

He goes, this is the unit I call the Fab Five.

And it was

a hat tip to obviously the Fab Five from college basketball, but also just this idea that, yeah, you guys are rookies, but you are going to have a huge impact and you got to be ready now.

And he just couldn't believe the crop of talent that existed within that draft.

And it's tough to really have, I would say, two or three solid defensive backs in the team.

And to feel like you really got five contributors in one draft.

And then you have George Carloftis pan out the way that he has now really a second or third option when you you think about Chris Jones and Charles Emenahue and so it has been a roster building thing and I think in the Patriots dynasty This was what Bill Belichick was good at, it felt like in that first portion, tapered off toward the end, which you would hope would never happen to Kansas City if you're a Chiefs fan.

But I think the Chiefs really look at the draft, and this is from the mouth of General Manager Brett Veach in meetings we've had with him, they look at it as like another version of free agency.

Like they don't want to necessarily say, okay, this player is going to be good, you know, in this upcoming draft.

He's going to be good in 2027.

It's like, no, we got to get guys that can perform now.

And why is that?

Because you're paying.

these guys that have panned out.

You know, now they're looking at Nick Bolton, whose contract is up.

Who knows what happens with Justin Reed, Trey Smith, Trent McDuffie is going to be eligible.

And so you got to nail the draft, and they've been able to do that really well.

And in that draft, you saw what they were able to do in terms of defensive backs.

They've been very good at these day two and day three defensive backs, in addition to McDuffie, who was that first rounder.

And I mean, that would apply to Xavier Worthy at wide receiver.

And, you know, I think the journey of this Chiefs team is to see where they were early in the season.

So banged up, depleted at the weapon position.

Now, you add Kareem Hunt, you add DeAndre Hopkins, like Rashi Rice goes down, but Hollywood Brown gets healthy.

Juju Smith-Schuster.

It's like the story, I feel like their ability to overcome what would take other teams down.

And I would would point out, like, one of the, you know, when they lost to the Bucs in the Super Bowl, tackle issues.

And this year, you just take Joe Tooney and move him to left tackle.

And, like, how to, with that, like, specific decision,

that requires player buy-in, coach buy-in, like, and just taking someone who was a wonderful guard and having him play a very different position along the offensive line.

That's things that other teams don't seem to do well.

Yeah, and I just want to add a point about the early part of the season quick.

And I know there's so much hyper-focus right now on officials.

And look, I try to stay unbiased.

I live in Kansas City.

I'm friends with a lot of Chiefs fans.

And so naturally, like, but no one talks about how the Atlanta Falcons weren't able to beat the Chiefs when Carson Steele was the running back for the entire game, or a couple games later when Noah Gray had to lead the team in receiving because they were out of weapons, seemingly.

And so I think there's a lot more to the season than it's like, oh, you got a couple calls in the divisional round.

They wouldn't even have had the buy, which they desperately needed without winning those early games.

And so I think that plays into it.

And then, yeah, exactly what you're saying, I just think being able to have Worthy pull off the Rashi Rice thing.

They kind of failed with Sky Moore.

He's still on the roster.

Really hasn't panned out.

I mean, that's one that sticks out.

But last year, Rashi Rice, throughout the year, he started off slow.

He was brought into this complex Andy Reid system.

And then something clicked in the middle of the year.

Xavier Worthy pinpointed week 11 this year.

That's when they lost to the Buffalo Bills as the game where he really felt like, yo, shoot, you know what?

I do know my multiplication tables and performed as a key contributor to the team.

And I think his role has grown from there.

And now you get guys back, like you get a Hollywood Brown back, and DeAndre's been here, and Juju knows his system really well.

And I think what sticks out about this upcoming game is what was a grand weakness in terms of pass catchers for the team early on in the year has really become one of the deeper weapons rooms in the NFL when you consider that.

And then for 2025, nobody wants to hear this, but you add Rice back into that mix.

Who knows if they get Brown back and Hopkins, but still, so they've done a good job not only thinking about what's at hand, but what is to come.

And I think that pans out when you're playing in the Super Bowl.

And you can tell we have an active police scanner here.

So we're tracking all sorts of activities.

We're all over everything in New Orleans.

We're locals, basically.

Yeah.

You guys have really settled in here nicely.

I thought the end of that game against the Bills, their last game, was so instructive.

And what's the difference between them and so many other teams?

Now, you could argue about the Josh Allen play or whatever, but when it came time to close out the game, you saw the Bills feel a little tight with their play calling and the way that Reed and their offense operated to seal that game with the two first downs.

They get better in these moments when other teams feel the moment.

And I think that's such an underrated aspect of what's made them what they are.

I do want to talk about about because I think Mahomes discussed it.

He was asked about it either today or yesterday.

Like,

what's the game that sticks with you the most?

And he called out the Bucs Super Bowl when he got his ass kicked.

He had that bad offensive line, absolutely ass whipping, threw two interceptions, no touchdowns.

He took some hellacious shots in that game.

Their offensive line was totally overmatched by Tampa's front.

And my only question is, and Tooney deserves a lot of credit.

And as I understand it, they're not going to mess around with it.

They're going to keep him on the outside.

And is there a fear

that's real that this game could go down that road where the Philadelphia rush could really wreak havoc and change the outcome?

Yeah.

Yeah,

I wasn't surprised he named the Tom Brady Bubble Championship as

his game.

But no, I think that is a concern.

I do.

I think when you look at, and PFF is PFF, but Joe Tooney actually had the best pass-blocking grade of any offensive lineman in the AFC Championship.

No pressures, right?

No.

So, and he had three the game before.

So I think he has kind of gotten used to being out on an island as best he can.

This is still the NFL in the Super Bowl.

I mean, you're going to have to settle into the game individually as well.

But I think he's done a good job as anyone.

I think where...

The added concern is coming in now is, is Mike Caliendo going to hold up?

And I know that a lot of Chiefs fans are concerned about what Jalen Carter can do, just considering he is so talented.

But then you kind of look at the snaps and where he lines up.

And he actually lines up on the left side almost exclusively.

So that could ease a little bit of that concern with Caliendo because it mirrors to the right side.

And I think what has been getting lost in Kansas City, at least, in the grand concern for Mike Caliendo, I think is Carter versus Trey Smith.

And Trey Smith is just looked at as this bruiser who's going to dominate.

And, oh, if he's against Trey Smith, it's fine.

Trey Smith can be up and down.

And I wonder if that's getting lost in the shuffle a little bit because I don't think they're going to move Carter from rushing where he's comfortable.

I think they're going to let him do his thing.

And I think that could be the key matchup to watch that, really, in my opinion, nobody is talking about.

Along those lines, what do you make of this?

Vic Fangio's, you know, he's a big addition to Philadelphia, obviously, and along with Saquon, there's no faces that make this different than two years ago.

But Mahomes,

there we go.

Mahomes 0-7, or Fic Fangio's 0-7 versus Mahomes, and in those games, the Chiefs have averaged 28 points per game.

Does that matter here?

Is that a stat that matters to you?

It tells me something, I feel like.

Yeah,

I think when you look at

the Eagles' identity, it's Fangio again.

And it's not just Mahomes.

I feel like Andy Reid has seemed to have his number.

Listen, Patrick Mahomes is great and he's outstanding.

I play this game sometimes.

If I'm being a realist here, where like, what does Patrick Mahomes' career look like in Chicago?

What does it look like in Buffalo?

You know, I think Andy Reid gets a little bit lost in the shuffle, even with all the accolades and praise that he gets.

And I think to me, it's more of a Reed Infangio thing.

He just seems to have his number to a predictability standpoint.

And I think that plays right into the Chiefs' favor.

The Chiefs have a lot of different ways that they can win now.

They have two running backs that they like.

They have Travis Kelsey and DeAndre Hopkins who can kind of attack you in that middle eight.

They have burners like an Xavier Worthy and Hollywood Brown.

And then there's a hidden weapon that we really haven't seen.

And I'm trying to remind people this as well.

And who knows if it shows up on Sunday.

This is kind of me throwing a dart here.

Andy Reid hasn't forgotten about the screen game.

He's Mr.

Screen.

And I don't think they've used Samajay P.

Rine quite enough.

And I think having a potential curveball, a knuckleball in your pocket to maybe use in this level of a game will be important.

And I just wonder if P.

Rine is that snake in the grass deciding to bite the Eagles.

Let's end this way.

Reed said this week he's not going anywhere.

Or you could strongly read between the lines and see that this isn't a guy that's looking to retire yet, right?

Mahomes doesn't even turn 30 until the fall.

Do you sense that this is a team that's right in the middle of the dynasty run still?

Whether they win or not, we'll see.

But do you see any reasons to think that the Chiefs won't continue to be power players as long as Reed and Mahomes are are together, anchoring it all?

Yeah, like, man,

Mike Florio, man,

he has this obsession with Andy Reid retiring, and it's so annoying to me.

And it stems from

like what annoys me about it.

By the way, Mike Florio, man, is something that people have been saying in this industry for decades now.

And

the Chiefs got ahead of it this time, with Clark Hunt coming out and saying, like, he's coming back.

But what always annoyed me about that is, like,

in the conversation about Bill Belichick, it's it's always been, well, where's he going next?

Bill Belichick is six years older than Andy Reid, right?

I think he's just

a hefty man and maybe looks a little less healthy.

And so people are always quick to assume.

By the way, the Raiders just hired someone that is, what, seven years older than Andy Reid.

And I think Andy Reid loves the game so much.

And in talking with people close to him, he worries more about the day that he doesn't have football than, quote unquote, getting tired of it in his chair.

I don't think he ever gets tired of it.

It stems from teaching.

And he never talks about this.

But, man, when you listen to him talk about

people he's worked with in terms of the Hall of Fame, it is always, okay, let's stop the press conference.

I'm going to give you the one-minute answer you want.

You know, he's been doing it this week with Mike Holmgrim.

And so I just think in his, he would never admit it at the podium.

He always, you know, references teaching and the camaraderie.

But Belichick's in UNC,

he's tied to the Chiefs through to 2029.

He has has his creative quarterback on Madden after

he had a lot of good quarterbacks with Donvin McNabb and Alex Smith and Mike Vick, but this was the guy he has always been waiting for.

I think so long as he can stay healthy, which, you know, I tend to think he's all right.

I mean, he's going to ride this out because I truly think that both of these guys, Reed is eyeing six and Mahomes is eyeing what would be seven now that he lost that swing game.

So is Joe Tooney at this point.

Yes, and Joe Tooney.

And Brendan Daly, I believe, has gone to all these Super Bowls in a row.

Of course, Tooney, some of us are tied to this, though, so we need to.

Just a tap.

Yeah, take it easy.

And so, no, I really feel like they're going to go for it as long as they possibly can.

And, you know, we'll see how long that lasts.

I saw that if they carry on about an 11-win pace, I believe, through 2029 when his contract runs out, that he'll be right at Shula at that point.

Yeah, forget Belcheck.

It's Shula.

And then, you know, what is that from now?

Quick math, five years.

He'll still be younger than Pete Carroll, his fellow coach, then as well.

So could he go another two years after that?

Just less chunky soup.

Mark, when we had our rider, just an enormous amount of apples was Mark's request.

I think the whole house.

Underdog.

They've admired that order.

And you know what?

As we wrap this up, Pete, you're welcome to come in our kitchen and ask Mark nicely for an apple.

I don't know if he'll be able to.

You got

some peanut butter cooking in there?

I think we got some peanut butter.

We got some whiskies, like a brew dog.

We got a brew dog.

Nothing goes better than an apple than a beer.

I always say that.

Pete Sweeney, check out all his stuff.

Where can they find you, Pete?

Yeah, check out ArrowheadPride.com if you want the chief's angle of things.

I do comment on the NFL here and there at PGSween on X.

And yeah, I appreciate all the support.

Thank you, buddy.

Thank you.

Oh, yeah.

Listen to that.

Unbelievable.

And now the police are outside to take you away.

Okay.

I'll take a break.

And when we get back, James Palmer on free agency in the new league year.

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All right, we are back.

So, Sess Dog.

We just talked to Pete about the game and the Chiefs.

However,

people don't want to just...

Here's the thing about Super Bowl coverage, and we've been in it forever, right?

There's only so many things to talk about with the Bay game.

Well, especially for 30 of the fan bases.

Right.

So here we are, once again, fingers on the pulse, just like we have the pulse of New Orleans.

That's how we say it, because we're

essentially local at this point.

Yes.

Why don't we talk about all the other teams and what some strategies are for many of the teams that are going to be active in free agency?

Because the league year is right around the corner.

New strategy.

New league year is right around the corner.

So, with that said,

we must summon the man who can help us break all this down.

James!

There he is!

James Palmer!

Oh, always a

sartorial force.

JP!

Yes, how are you, bud?

Guys, I'm Curtis.

I am Greg hitting the town.

Had a great chat last night about the evolution of the wide receiver position with the great Ed McCaffrey, three-time Super Bowl champ.

I think he knows a thing or two about playing receivers.

There is a thing or two about what's going on in the receiver world today, considering he was like, got a call from Max during training, or Luke during training camp.

I get all of his boys confused, I guess.

Luke during training camp going, this Jaden Daniels kid, dad, is pretty good.

I think, I know it's not breaking news, but he's pretty good.

And Brandon Marshall's there.

Steve Smith's there.

It was a great chat.

It's going to be on Underdog, on our show.

Let's talk about free agency.

It's coming up before you know it.

The new league year will be here.

And with it,

obviously, a deluge of transactions, both signings, obviously, for free agents, but also trades and all other type of things.

Players can be released and become free agents.

Where to start in this conversation?

I guess we'll start here.

What do you think of the free agent class in comparison to recent years?

Would you call it a strong one?

Which position?

I mean, we can look at it.

Overall, I mean,

there's some monsters that we'll have to keep an eye on.

I think one of them's playing Sunday here in New Orleans is, or sorry, I heard you guys earlier.

Nolins.

I'm not a local yet.

Yeah, we are.

Yeah, I know you guys are.

I'm hanging out with too many transplants.

And so

Trey Smith, the guard for the Chiefs, might end up being the highest paid guard in NFL history when free agency is done here.

I'm curious where he goes, if Kansas City tries to find a way to keep him.

That interior of the line has been really, since that loss to Tampa Bay in the Super Bowl, has been what's changed, honestly,

things in Kansas City.

That draft is to draft Creed Humphreys, they draft Trey Smith, and then I think they bring over who's one of the most underrated players in this league's history and Joe Tooney, who I think is a Hall of Famer.

And they bring him over in free agency, who's now going for his fifth Super Bowl ring because he came over from New England and obviously

slid out the left tackle.

So he was, I remember being at that game, that game where Brady, I'm there on the sideline when Brady beats Mahomes in overtime in Kansas City in 2018, and they go to the Super Bowl.

Tooney's playing in that game for New England.

Next season comes over.

Hey, guys, here I come.

There he is.

And he comes on over.

And so

he's the other side of this interior.

Trey Smith's been outstanding.

Does a team like Washington, who has a ton of money and saw what Jaden Daniels is able to go out there and do, go, all right, step two of this process for Rader and Peters, their general manager, is we now to start protect our asset, right?

Like, does a team like Washington go out and pay him an absorbing amount of money to go and protect Jaden Diels?

He's going to be a fascinating one at the top of the market.

Well, he, well, let's see.

So the Patriots, Raiders, Commanders are one, two, three in cap space.

The Patriots, by the way, have nearly $121 million.

And that has to be like a record or something close to it.

The Commanders one is the one that I think jumps out to everyone.

This is Washington fans who went through a lot of shit, crawled through a lot of shit, and then came out clean on the other side

with Jaden Daniels.

Like, you know, this is the fun part.

You had this beautiful close to your season, this great playoff run.

You fall just short.

But now, in addition to all the optimism, the commanders having this money burn in a hole in their pocket.

Now, this doesn't always work out.

And that's like the thing we need to always underline here, like as we have a conversation about what teams are going to be the most active here.

The commanders are going to probably spend a lot of money and probably become seen as favorites in the NFC.

We don't know how these moves will work, but I agree.

The general talking point, Sesdog, when you talk about a young quarterback on a rookie deal and a team that has made a move quickly is now you go spend and you take advantage of this Jaden Daniels window before he gets his massive extension.

So you can guarantee the commanders go off in free agencies.

I mean, in general, I'd rather your future comes through the draft, you know, rookie contracts and build around them that way.

I feel like we've been doing this for a long time, and these teams with a ton of cap money,

be careful.

Don't go spend on guys who are going to be gone in tears.

But let's talk about the one dude, like a T.

Higgins, right?

Cincinnati is going to, I think, fight for him, try to keep him.

I think Joe Burrow wants that.

But a team like Washington or New England, like that would justify spending a king's ransom on a player that can change your offense.

Yeah, and while we're talking about this, I go back to what happened a season ago with another number two overall pick that exploded in their rookie year.

And what did Houston go and do in year two?

It's like, all right, let's go get Joe Mixon.

Let's go get Stephon Diggs.

Let's go try to get T.J.

Shroud some weapons.

What did they fail to do is go, well, maybe we should try to work on this offensive line because we got some issues up front here.

And I'm kind of just curious if Adam Peters is looking at it.

And one of the reasons also they have all this money is they have a league low, 34 players under contract for 2025.

So like a lot of guys are going to go running back too, obviously.

Like they just don't have anybody signed, which is a big part of this money.

But I do think draft is a big part of it.

That's why I also, a lot of people, when I made my calls on Monday about the Miles Garrett situation, was like, Washington, Washington, Washington.

I get the sense that Adam Peters and Dan Quinn want to build this thing the right way.

And do we want to give up multiple ones if that's what it has to be to get that type of impact player?

Or do we want to try to use what we have?

Yeah, go try to use what we have to build this through the draft and then find pieces around.

We can talk to T.

Higgins.

I think T.

Higgins is a really, you know, he's kind of maybe what's going to make this free agent wide receiver market go or change.

And I think there's a buzz here in New Orleans talking to people that the chances of him returning to Cincinnati are increasing.

And that's starting to seem much more likely than it did at any point during the season.

Before the season, I was told directly he's going to play on the tag and then he's going to walk.

And we're going to see what we can do this year.

Joe Burrow's influence and what they're trying to work.

I think the change in agents is something we shouldn't overlook.

He now is represented by the same agent as Jamar Chase.

So getting a deal done with both of them with the same agent, I think actually makes the process a little bit easier.

You're at the ninth most cap rub, too.

Exactly.

And this is a guy who was like, what, ninth in receiving yards per game?

Health is an issue.

And I just think what's going to happen is, and we talk, and I'd like to spin this to this, how often do you see teams in free agency go and make a move for a player like T.

Higgins to go, he's our one.

Around the league, they view him as a two.

Right.

And oftentimes in free agency, you get pushed into those roles and the team overpays.

But how he also, how he's been banged up the last two years, which is unfortunate in terms of him trying to get that long-term deal.

But, you know, he had big performances down the stretch that reminded people, I feel like he would get paid like a one on the open market.

And if I'm Cincinnati and I'm looking at Cincinnati, what's wrong with Cincinnati?

How come they have not been able to reach the heights of that Great Burrow season where they almost won it all?

Do we need to be paying two wide receivers superstar money or

we take care of Chase.

We get, I don't know what Cooper Cup will cost, but Stephon Diggs, we get a guy that we like as a number two, but you don't break the bank.

And then you take your money and you build up that defense which killed you and got your DC fired this past year, or you add offensive line help.

I think the temptation of the Bengals here to keep the band together might not actually be the best thing.

Isn't it a little different than I see what you're saying, but like the two

wide receivers and Burrow, that's such a core of their identity.

It is, but look at the best of the best.

I think it's a risk to take one of those guys away.

If you have a true dog at quarterback, and there are only six or seven of them, and I would put Burrow in the top three in the league.

You have to.

Do you need to spend all the money on wide receiver or do you just get the right mix and you feel like?

He doesn't want to put him in the three.

I say he's in the three.

What did you say?

What's your take?

Well, no, I was just counting.

I was like, Lamar, Josh, Mahomes, Burrow.

But they kind of there's fluid.

But my point is, you don't need to break the bank at wide receiver when you have a quarterback as special as number three.

And I think the funny part about this conversation with T is what has got them into this situation, like you said, it's like the inability to get deals done.

Right.

And so is this going to be another deal that Cincinnati Bengals fans are going, well, we didn't get that one done.

It happened with Jesse Bates.

It happened with, who is it?

Like DJ Reeder ends up leaving where they could have probably found a way to keep.

There was deals that they've tried to make and couldn't get done.

And that's been kind of the story of Cincinnati.

Here are the pending free agents at wide receiver.

And this could change like Devontae Adams, for example, could enter this crew and other guys.

But Higgins, Diggs, Keenan Allen, Amari Cooper, Chris Godwin, Brandon Cooks, Deontay Johnson, DeAndre Hopkins, Mike Williams, Robert Woods, Hollywood Brown, Darius Slayton.

I think there are a lot of guys that could be solid number twos

and a lot of offenses, Cincinnati one of them.

I think that's a pretty interesting crew.

And if Adams does hit the market, he's a fascinating guy, too, because he showed last year he had plenty of juice with the Jets despite their failures as a team.

A lot of those guys feel like one-year deals to me though.

Yeah.

If you're like band-aided in Cincinnati as we're sticking with them, why wouldn't you go get Hollywood Brown who's not going to return to the Chiefs because Rashi Rice is going to come back and they have Xavier Worthy on his rookie contract.

And so

Hollywood Brown, would you want the speedster to go opposite of Jamar Chase, who, by the way, the evolution of Jamar is like something that I don't know why people haven't talked about.

The work he put in to play all three wide receiver positions and now be able to be moved around the field like his buddy Justin Jefferson has made him just that much more difficult to guard.

So, when you have the flexibility with your one that can move like that, like, why not just get like Marquise Brown and

pay for a fraction of the cost than you would for T?

The issue that Cincinnati has is: are we going to try to keep our quarterback happy, who believes I'm in an organization that probably won't do that for me?

I think that perception plays a part in this as well.

When you look at the other receivers, they're like, which guy are you saying we're going to have for multiple years?

Here's the guy that I think is the value pick.

Darius Slayton.

Darius Slayton.

Just joking.

Darius Slayton.

I think Darius Slayton is a good piece, and you're not going to break the bank, and he could be there for multiple years.

But he's not a one, obviously, but he's part of your crew.

How about a one that's under contract still, but could potentially be on the move out there in the Pacific Northwest?

P.K.

Metcalf.

100%.

That's a one, yeah.

100%.

That's a one.

We've seen the emergency.

I covered a couple of their games.

Jackson Smith and Jigba, OH, has been outstanding this year.

You've seen the chemistry that he's had with the way Gino throws the ball.

The chemistry like with Geno and DK is kind of interesting to watch.

It's not fully there.

The take that I have from

like people that I know that really, really know this position, when you're not an outstanding route runner,

and those exist in the NFL, and they still make plays and they still get open.

When you start to have several years in the league and your physicality advantage starts to no longer be as dominant as it was as you get older, oftentimes your production drops.

And that is DK Metcalf.

Like, he's not an unbelievable route runner.

Can he win in what they ask him to do?

Yeah, I was at his pro day.

He only ran goes, slants, and posts, and that was it.

A.J.

Brown was there running every single thing under the sun from inside and outside.

But DK's good at what he does.

But he also starts at 27.

Yeah.

It's not like he's the guy's a 32-year-old.

I just think the buzz around him is this is somebody that could certainly be on the move.

I'm not sure how happy they are with him in terms of just the fit with everybody.

And I think a new OC coming in.

And that, like,

one sort of side question because we were rocked by the Miles Garrett trade request, right?

I mean, to some degree.

You've got the Cooper Cup thing where the Rams sound like they're willing to eat money to move them.

Leverage has changed there.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, I just wonder, is this, because this is not a stunning free agency group, are we going to see, we've had a couple offseasons where trades really bubbled up, but is that, are we looking at that in the next couple of weeks?

I think that plays a huge factor, and I think the draft plays a huge factor.

Well, we saw this past year in the draft.

The receivers were outstanding.

I mean, Brian Thomas Jr.

had a remarkable season.

Same with Malik Neighbors, and everybody almost shits on what Marvin Harrison Jr.

did, but like it was actually a pretty good season.

I think the expectations were just too high.

And so there's all these guys.

Lad McConkey goes out and is literally the passing offense for the Chargers.

Those players do not exist in this draft.

Like, they really don't.

80 players declared for the draft,

declared to be eligible at the wide receiver position this year.

80.

There's going to be like 25 taken.

It's really not a great group.

So that, combined with the free agent group we're talking about, if you want to make a bigger move, like Cooper Cup's going to be a third-round pick, probably, right?

So like, do you go and go, all right, I'd rather have Cooper Cup or DK Metcalf or

like maybe we can wrangle George Pickens.

Does Pittsburgh still want to deal with that headache?

I mean, it is bad there, like, really bad.

Do they want a contract extension with George Pickens?

Like, but there's talent.

So, I think some of those, you're right.

The trademark at receiver, I think, is going to be interesting, and teams are going to look into it because the other options are different.

I want to ask about a quote that came off of Radio Row today.

I believe Josh Jacobs told Chris Sims, Green Bay, we need a quote, a real wide receiver.

Is Green Bay a team to watch for a DK Metcalf?

Yeah, before you answer that, just a reminder, unsolicited advice to all these guys on Radio Row.

You get loose.

I understand you're going through the car wash, and I understand you got the Chris Simses of the world, and it's not a shot against Sims.

He's doing his job, that they just are trying to get you to share this one line that then gets aggregated, and then the show that Chris Sims is on is everywhere as the source.

Just be careful.

I don't want to tell guys not to say how they feel because then the league is boring.

But I already know that his agent and probably

LaFleur and Gouda Kunz.

What are we doing, bro?

You've just buried our wide receiver room and put our business on blast for Chris F and Sims.

What are we doing?

Yeah, and what they've built there.

But I agree with Trump.

I agree 100% with him.

I was at that playoff game, and I was just like looking at the give you the card in the press box.

And I'm looking at it.

I'm like, who's playing wide receiver right now for the Packers?

Everybody was hurt.

Yeah, that was a huge part of it.

Yeah.

And so I just know the way what they wanted to achieve this year with

the way

who's their quarterback, guys?

Help me out.

Jordan Love.

Jordan Love.

Yes, we got you.

Jordan Love plays a position, and what they wanted him to do is

what they wanted him to do, it was a late one last night, is be very diplomatic with the football.

They want him to command more at the line of scrimmage.

It's part of the reason why they had some rocky moments this season, I was told, is because they're still trying to build this to where he can do more himself and be more diplomatic with the football.

I think they're built to do that.

I kind of like their makeup.

I think it's interesting.

But

apparently the running back doesn't agree with our opinion.

No.

Now, you mentioned love.

Let's talk quarterbacks.

Oh, you guys mentioned love.

I forgot his name.

Yeah, no, we got there.

We got there.

So the quarterbacks of name brand

value

in free agency, heading toward free agency, Sam Darnold, and then a big drop, Justin Fields, Russell Wilson, Jameis Winston.

I'll give you triple question marks.

And then Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, who came out and got in the news cycle this week by acknowledging that he suffered elbow and shoulder injuries in a game right around the time the Falcons season swooned, leading to his benching.

He injured his shoulder and elbow in addition to a right ankle injury that he basically put it out there.

I was hurt, guys.

I'm not washed.

Forget about the tape.

So you have Cousins likely hitting the market, Rodgers.

And then I went and looked it up just for fun.

I was like, what are the teams that definitely need a quarterback right now?

Okay.

Browns, right?

Oh, yes.

Yes.

Browns, Titans.

No doubt.

Raiders.

G-Men.

And then maybe slash possibly slash probably

Rams.

We'll see.

Probably not.

But Jets,

Steelers,

Saints.

Right?

Saints are going to go with Carr this year.

And now, okay, so take the Saints up.

That's why I had him on Maybe, but yeah, he's under contract.

They don't have a lot of flexibility, and the options aren't great.

So that makes sense.

So I'm looking at seven teams there.

I'm looking at a milquetoast

quarterback market.

When is it not for veterans?

If they're really great, they're going to be with the team typically.

And then a draft, obviously, James, that is not, we're being told over and over again.

This is not a great year for quarterbacks and apparently wide receivers.

So what do you do if you're these teams?

And do you have any leads on where some of these big veterans line up?

We got some talk here.

I think,

like, this is what I do here.

I just go out, I rage, and then try to get people to tell me things.

Classic moment.

And then I forget people to tell me things.

And I get on my piano and then I show my sensitive side.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah.

Just tell me your thoughts.

And

I think the vibe on Sam Darnold is kind of obviously the crux of this whole group.

Where does he go?

And he definitely cost himself some money with those last two games, which my understanding is it went from like a 40 million a year guy to like a 30 million a year guy.

That sucks.

Which sucks, but it's, I mean, that's a loss if he's going to sign a three-year deal.

If he's going to sign a three-year deal and it drops 10, like, that's 30 million bucks or whatever he loses.

And so

I think it's leaning more towards him playing elsewhere next year than Minnesota.

I asked around to a couple of GMs in the waning weeks of the season.

They're like, there's zero chance he leaves.

He's won won the locker room.

They love him there.

Look at the way he's played and how quickly that changed in two games because there's a variety of things you have to, things that play here.

They did it with Kirk Cousins where they drew a line in the sand, right?

They're just like, well, we're not going over this.

And if you leave, I think we'll be fine.

I think they saw how successful that was the first time they did it.

It worked with Sam Darn.

And J.J.

McCarthy was actually playing pretty well.

during training camp before the injury.

Like, they liked what they saw.

They really, really liked what they saw.

And I think the thought right now is Minnesota is going, I wonder what he can get out on the open market.

I feel like that's the vibe right now.

I wonder what he can get if he went elsewhere.

And if they have that thought process, that has to mean that they're teetering on the idea of him playing elsewhere.

Isn't like the whole the world of team building right now is you want to get that rookie quarterback.

The Bears in your same division have that.

And so the idea that you'd move off of J.J.

McCarthy for Sam Darnold, to me, feels kind of just illogical, even though Sam Darnold played well.

And I understand that he's well-liked, but I think you've got to ask the question, if you're another team.

And first of all, I find it slightly annoying to me that because of two sub-par performances, he's devalued that much.

Because if he's devalued that much, then you don't trust him entirely to begin with to be your starter.

And you're going to say, I'm annoyed now.

Who is he without Justin Jefferson, without Jordan Addison, without

your coach, without the running game they had?

I mean, it's you're because the Raiders keep being brought up, and it makes sense.

They have a massive void at the position, and there was some reporting that Sam Darnold would love to learn from Tom Brady, et cetera.

But I'm saying the thing is, you put Sam Darnold.

You still live in Florida, by the way.

It's not like

moving into FaceTime.

Sam, don't go to the desert to maybe work with Tom Brady.

But all these teams, all these teams that you listed,

all these teams you listed feel like a semi-hazardous landing spot for Sam Darnold, where Minnesota was the perfect place to grow them.

They They could tag him for 40 million.

Then you could trade them.

And you can tag and trade, or you could tag and keep them if you want.

The difference I do think that nobody talks about is this.

These quarterbacks that came out in this draft last that played outstanding, whether it's Bo Nix, whether it's Michael Pennix for a small sample size, and Jaden Daniels, obviously, Nixon Daniels specifically, they both played like 80 years in college football.

I think Bo Nix is like 37 years old.

So like these guys are much, much older.

J.J.

McCarthy's 21.

So there's just a different spot of like, hey, if we sit him him for another year,

this is a different thing than sitting a 26-year-old rookie.

Yeah, but also half of his rookie, your rookie contract is cooked.

100%.

I understand that part.

You're not going to do that.

I understand that part.

But the other thing that I think Minnesota understands they have to do, and I do think that their brain trust is very into team building, which we've already seen in the Cousins move, is you got interior defensive line help, you got to take care of.

If you got offensive line help, you got to take care.

If you got corner help, you got your running back that's a free agent.

So like they have a lot to think about.

And if they want to continue to compete, is it like, what's the drop-off?

Well, guess what, KOC?

We just paid you a shit ton of money.

Yeah.

Go work your magic again at the next quarterback because that's why we paid you that much money.

So with the next quarterback, go do it again because I got to put my money elsewhere.

I think.

And they don't have any draft picks, by the way.

Well, they have four picks.

They have like a first round and then like two-fifths is like next.

I think Darnold, and we should hit the other quarterbacks before we say goodbye, but Darnold, as much as I love Sam, I think the last two weeks underlined all the things, all the doubters that still were kept on the people that still thought Darnold wasn't the real thing.

They were waiting for that.

It was a seven-day stretch where he played two bad games.

And I think that's going to kill Donny.

He won 14 games.

Yeah.

And he played excellent for long stretches of that season.

But I do think he is one of the many quarterbacks who does have a ceiling.

And if you put him in the right spot, he will thrive.

But if you throw him to one of these teams that are desperate for a quarterback and don't have a lot around him or a really good play caller, I think Sam will struggle again.

I think he has to be in the right spot for it to work.

So I'd be careful about paying him a lot.

Fields, Wilson, I'm not going to bring up Winston.

Winston improves every time he gets on the field that he's a backup and a mascot, basically.

But Fields and Wilson, if they're...

To be thinking, as you don't think, be the best.

Speaking to a former mascot,

are we past the era where Justin Fields or Russell Wilson, and I'll throw cousins in here based on his age and how bad he was last last year.

Can they walk into starting jobs, any of these guys?

I think Rodgers can if he chooses to, but these guys, are they all at best competing in the camp this year?

Maybe because you have no choice.

You're going to be left.

Like, let's use Pittsburgh, for example.

I think there's a greater chance of them playing Fields this year than Russell Wilson.

I really do.

There's so dreary.

There's plenty of people in that building that never wanted to make the move in the first place.

He played the best football of his career.

He limited the turnover issues that he had when he was with Chicago.

And there were definitely people in that building that I spoke with that were like, I wish we would have kept playing with Fields.

Well, you're going to sell for another nine and eight.

But that's the spot they're stuck in.

Like, if I'm then, I'm sitting here and I'm watching if Matthew Stafford and the Rams end up parting ways with each other or if it gets contentious like it did this past offseason contractually.

Are you like swooping in and getting Matthew Stafford if you're the Steelers?

They're stuck in this terrible spot.

You're stuck in this terrible spot.

And the AFC, if you're the Steelers, going, we're going to be competitive enough, but we know we're never getting into the world of those other quarterbacks.

And then with Rodgers, I would say real quick, like,

I don't know why.

He has a house in Nashville.

Like, I don't know why I could see that being like the bridge that they do, and they don't go quarterback at the top of this draft.

And I mean, that's just my opinion and a thought.

Do they just go Aaron Rodgers bridge?

But I do think, and Mark said this to me, these are names.

You can sell it to a fan base EBITDA.

Well, I said you could say Rodgers.

I don't think you can sell these other guys Beyond Darnold.

Beyond Darnold?

No, because I think the problem right this offseason, what I'm seeing.

You versed me earlier?

Well, no, I said that you could sell if you're not.

You misled me prior to not.

So you could create confrontation when the cameras were.

Well, that's good for the show, but that's ⁇ I actually was sort of saying that if you're the Titans, you could possibly sell Aaron Rock.

Because how do you sell,

as a Browns fan, right?

And not even a fan at this point.

You're not selling Russell Wilson on me.

Are you selling Kirk Cousins on the table?

Well, no, but

I think there's six or seven.

You could have Kirk Cousins and not really be paying for it.

I have no interest.

Like, that's the thing.

I have no interest.

I think the fans are too savvy now.

We're not going to buy the Kirk Cousins in the future.

I just told you he was hurt, man.

You don't believe Kirk Cousins either, huh?

The Falcons legitimately think he can't play football.

Kirk doesn't like it.

There's a bunch of teams that are going to feel still hopeless after all this process

points down.

And that's free agency in a nutshell.

My question is: if you're signing Aaron Rodgers, if you're the Titan signing Aaron Rodgers, what is the point?

You are not winning the Super Bowl.

You can Meet in the seats and get the fans feeling like there's something to actually go to that stadium for.

But a smarter Titans fan sees through that.

It's a waste of a season.

You're going to go nine and eight or ten.

You don't even have a rock.

The roster is bad.

You're going to bring Aaron Rodgers in to get you a middle of the draft pick, so you're never going to get the quarterback you need.

Maybe you trade back and you add those extra picks and you trade out a one and then those help you in the next year.

And guess what?

Rogers is going to build that culture for you.

Can I ask

that culture for you?

to run the earth with a bunch of young pups?

Beyond the fact that he has a house in Nashville, apparently.

Like, why the hell would you ever, at 41 and you're Aaron Rodgers, go play for the titans?

Because I don't think he wants this to be the last year.

I don't think

the Jets, if everything Aaron Glenn wants to sell and change there, keeping Rodgers one more year probably doesn't turn it over the way you want to turn it over.

Well, look at the moves they made.

Also,

and the Glenn is a first-year defensive head coach.

They hired a first-time play caller.

Everything around Rod, it feels like they're moving on.

If you start going through the different moves that they're making here.

We're just talking about your options, though, Brad.

We're just talking you may not have another option.

So you get Aaron Rodgers.

That's the point.

It's not like you're pursuing them on

free agency and you're going to pay them.

You can feel the excitement just oozing off of Graver's body over there across the room.

He could still play, by the way.

He's a maniac.

I don't doubt he can still play.

It just feels pointless.

But after, like, as someone that just watched Will Levis play quarterback and whomever else is, and if you have somebody that's a professional at the position, it is an upgrade, just as a fan, to watch some who can play.

But I just, if you're not winning the Super Bowl, he's not a long-term answer, and he prevents you from getting a franchise.

Whatever.

We don't have to do that.

No, you still have to play football games, even if you're not going to win the Super Bowl, and you need somebody to throw that football to your teammates.

Cam, what I would do is, listen, you want Cam War.

I'm saying if they, this is a

play if they don't go quarterback with one.

Say they trade back, there's a better quarterback class coming in 2026.

And they put themselves in a position to go, hey, Aaron, thanks for the year.

We're now the trade itself, and we had to have Aaron be our quarterback.

The trade is what really was our offseason, and now we're in a better position to fix the position in 2026 when better quarterbacks are coming out in the draft.

bridge quarterback at this point, Rogers, on the right side of the Dalton line.

Like he's in the 10 to 14 range as a quarterback.

And if you just need somebody to get you, unless you're in a full-on tank, if you want to be in a full-on tank, run out Captain Mayo again and whomever else and go 2-15.

But if you want to have some functionality and the head coach doesn't want to get fired, that could, yeah,

the Jets fan having Aaron Rodgers.

Then he just passes it on hot potatoes on Justin record him next year.

No, I'm on the record.

I want Rodgers to come back to the Jets for the same reasons, a lot of the same reasons we're talking about here, that the other options aren't appetizing and the draft is probably not going to bail you out.

So what do you do then?

You call the Patriots and ask for Joe Milton.

Honestly, is that something a team explores?

We talked about that.

It's a fashion.

Well, you talked that we're allowed to do that.

There is a little bit of reporting out there that the Patriots are, like, there's little things happening with Joe Milton.

Like, if I'm the Patriots, I'm putting that out there.

I'm the one that's creating the news.

Isn't that more of an intriguing option than some of these other things?

For those that are not aware, a little Joe Milton bio, please.

Somebody throw it out there.

He was a Tennessee Volunteers quarterback, mid-late round draft pick, has sat on the bench exclusively for New England.

Rocket army.

He played week 18 against the Bills and made some nice plays.

Matt platform.

Matt Flynn, Packers backup, who signed a massive contract in Seattle off one game, lost a starting job to Russell Wilson that offseason.

It's the same

Bills team that was wresting a lot of players.

Does anybody call in Hendon Hooker?

My red flag was up there.

He He activated us through Teddy Bridgewater.

That's what I'm saying.

All right.

Give up a fifth.

James,

what's going on?

We're going to tie one on before

we get out of here or what?

Look, right now, right now.

Can we?

I told you Steve's on his way over here in a couple of hours.

Steve.

What is Steve?

What's his drink of choice?

Yeah, how do we get Steve to like us?

What's the

Mark and I we really want Steve to like us, you know, but we also don't want to come off as being tryhards because we know a guy like Steve is going to turn him off.

Like, what's the the play?

Steve wants truth.

Like, last time he was on the show, I said, Hey,

let's go on a Winnebago ride together.

And he gave me a look like I had an elbow growing out of my forehead.

Well, are you surprised?

Yeah.

What a request.

It was an angle.

I played the angle and it blew up.

And so, what do we do?

How do we think Steve likes to do that?

I think you are dead honest, and you do not try to show Steve how much you want to be friends with him.

So, don't be us.

Don't be us, basically.

No, I'm telling Dan to beat us.

Do we negative?

I didn't tell you to be Steve.

Do we throw like a couple zingers at him?

Like,

what's the pluck?

Zing him, but I think you really hold your ground.

Steve is always testing everybody.

When he gets mad, that's what he's doing.

What's his purpose for arriving here today?

Hang out with you guys.

For real?

That feels artificial.

I got a Texas sad.

I got a Texas.

That's sad.

I have one more event that I'm coming to the house to have.

Shit.

Be there around 2.45-ish.

Okay.

Boom.

Can I get a screenshot of that for the YouTube crew?

Certainly can.

All right, well, that just rephrases me to visit my phone before I send you the screen graph.

James, thank you very much, my man.

Thank you to everyone.

Stay right here, James.

Okay.

We're going to say goodbye to the audience.

Great opportunity for the three of us.

Thank you to Jason Zimmel.

Thank you, of course, to the gravedigger.

Thank you to the city of New Orleans, which has become our home.

Absolutely.

And

we're locals, essentially, at this point.

I think they would see it that way.

Yeah.

And thank you to Chris Wesley, wherever you are, my friend.

Until next time, do what you must.

Heed the call.

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