Super Bowl LIX Preview: How Each Team Can Win

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Hey,

you see what I'm seeing?

I am.

This is some freaky stuff, and I like it.

I can't move.

Hey, guys, are you ready to record?

I'll be downstairs.

The Heat the Call Podcast.

Just remembered, there's an actual football game to talk about.

All right.

That's right.

Thank you, Jason.

Welcome to Heed the Call from New Orleans at the Heat House.

Here at Underdog Manor, I'm Dan Hansis with Mark Sessler, my co-host.

Hi, Mark.

Hi, Dan.

How are you?

Why are you looking at me like that?

Why are you looking at me that way?

I just got lost in your eyes.

That was very strange.

Yeah.

Here we are.

The house is still a beautiful historical mansion.

I think

the experience has taken on sort of day four of Bachelor Party kind of energy.

Oh, yeah.

Where, you know, there's just stuff everywhere, but we're having an excellent time.

Yeah, you're starting to see

some of the seams here in the house.

Heat house.

You know, someone, I don't want to say who, and I can't say who because I don't know who it was.

Yeah.

We got like 10 people staying in the house.

Somebody got chilly and raise your hand amongst the crew.

Somebody turned off the air conditioner.

Now I understand if you want to maybe turn up the air conditioner, the setting from say 68 to 69 to 70.

Yeah.

But to just hit the off button, that is, that's some sociopath shit.

I want to believe it was an error.

not intentional, because I think most of us woke up in like, you know, a moist,

like exoskeleton.

Yeah.

And then I come outside, you know, we get dressed, and I come outside, and I take a look at the thermostat.

It's 78 degrees in the house, and it's still off, and I just had a banger.

It's not 78 outside right now.

Jason, is it possible?

And again, we're all friends here.

We're family, really, here at

Underdog Manor, that after we had to eject you from the show yesterday, I sabotaged you?

That you a sabotage maneuver in response.

Attack, attack, deny everything.

I'm going with

Trump's

methods of denial here, man.

But I will say this.

I had no problems whatsoever with my AC.

I have a totally separate thermostat in my room.

Right, because you're like in a different shape code on the third floor.

Pretty much.

I'm pretty sure it's not even connected to the house somehow.

I think when you go up.

You're paying your own Airbnb rent.

Yeah, I go into a different portal, into a different time and space.

That's not megalomaniac enough.

All right.

Well, let's get into it.

Let's get in.

Let's talk about the game.

That's what we're talking about.

We're talking about the game.

We're here for the Super Bowl.

Oh, who's that?

Oh, it is.

Oh, my goodness.

Here they are.

Pee-Wee's Playhouse style.

Watch out for the glass table.

Marked in it.

Connor Orr

of Sports Illustrated.

And Jordan Rodrigue of the Athletic.

And of course, both of them.

Family here at Heed the Call.

What's up, guys?

Welcome to Heat House.

This

headset was enlarged to massive proportions.

I just want to point that out.

That's amazing, Jason.

He's got a giant head.

He's a larger-than-life figure.

Is that Mark's coffee table?

This is the famous.

I don't know if that's the title I want to use for it eternally, but it was for a brief amount of time.

Almost.

I'm going to speak with Underdog to see if we could get this packed up because it's like a museum piece at this point in terms of the history of our show.

Yeah, right there is where he fell in slow motion and then knocked over a can of nitro coffee that looked like the deep maroon color of blood.

And for a moment I thought, you know, it was over.

Unlike Jason, I cannot deny, but nor do I recall most of it.

So did you guys take the same like public bus here?

I walked.

You walked?

Yeah, don't I look glowy and glisteny?

Humidity.

In a good way.

I took an Uber and the guy was playing Credence Clearwater Revival and I I was like, I just wanted to thank you for being exactly what I thought you'd be.

Right up Or Boulevard.

Yeah.

It was beautiful.

Also, I didn't actually walk.

No, you didn't.

Yes, Justin.

I just find it really convenient.

He just hit the crave there twice.

No, I will be inserted into show.

I was going to cut the first one because it wouldn't have made sense.

No, no, you can't.

No, you can't.

I just thought it was really cool and convenient how Jordan's laptop was sitting there for her because this was not totally at the stage.

I have an explanation for that.

Yes.

My Uber driver actually provided me the explanation for that.

I got in to the Uber this morning and he saw the location that he was driving me and he said, oh, you're going to the haunted house.

So that's how my last home arrived is we, you know, I express this into the void to the ghost

and he doth provide it.

That all checks out.

Yeah.

Take that, Justin.

Great explanation.

The only logical explanation is that.

And it also, it's so logical that all the locals find it hilarious when people come willingly to stay in a haunted home in the middle of this neighborhood.

And it's going to, the spirits will chase us back to Los Angeles.

That actually has been my concern.

It's like we don't feel, none of us have reported feeling anything extremely dark.

There's been a lot of renovations.

You probably chase these guys out.

But like, do, can they attach to you and then fly back with you to LAX and to your home?

That's sort of what I've been thinking about in the middle of the night.

I don't like that scenario.

Kind of excited about that.

It's all played.

Well, now you're here and it's attached to you as well.

All right, as we promised with the zumdrop, there's a game.

It is the Kansas City Chiefs going for a historic.

I got to pay Pat Riley if I say it,

but he'll have to find me first.

Three-Pete, they could become the first team ever to win three Super Bowl titles.

Sestog was all fired up at one of the taverns yesterday.

He's like, It's not actually three straight, and he's like, carrying the water for the Packers.

The Packers won five.

I didn't say not actually.

I think that's a good thing.

God forbid the Packers don't get more glory talk about their past.

But Mark, I guess you're right.

There have been teams, and I think you're Browns in some deep AFL scenario.

You want to talk about Jason's other universe?

That's where that occurred.

I don't know what that means.

What do you mean?

But that Browns winning multiple titles is literally from like a century ago at this point.

But in terms of since the Super Bowl era began, which would be, I guess, 1967,

no team has won three in a row.

And that's what the Chiefs are trying to do, standing in their way.

And let's start with this team is the Philadelphia Eagles.

What a team.

What a roster.

You know, they have a coach.

What a team builder.

What a running back.

What a quarterback.

There's also a head coach on the team.

Jordan, let's start this preview of Super Bowl 59

by talking about how do the Eagles win this game?

We kind of saw it when they played the Commanders, right?

They reached their maximum power.

They reached the apex of their abilities as probably the deepest roster in the NFL right now.

All phases were humming.

Everything was, everyone was playing up to their potential from Saquon Barkley to Jalen Hurts.

Even though his passing yards haven't looked the sexiest all season, he still can execute the game plan depending on which version of themselves they want to be that week.

And that's not even to start on Vic Fangio, who you know I could just like opine about for hours, and I won't do that to you guys, you know.

This is no, this is a six-hour preview with four and a half hours for you talking about

it.

It's all been building to this moment for he the college.

I'm so ready.

I'm going to need a moist towel.

The runway is clear.

I'm going to need a moist towel in a private room.

Yes, Vic Fangio, the D.C.,

he's been revitalized this year, obviously, after a down year in Miami where it didn't seem like he wanted to be there.

And all of a sudden, he's the dude again that everyone envies having.

Yeah, candidate for assistant coach of the year, won also the award for me and Mark's favorite coordinator this year, I think, probably, right?

In the running.

In the running.

Oh, there's competition.

I think Connor and Vic are actually friends.

We grew up

not at the same time, obviously,

two neighborhoods over.

He's a Dunmore guy.

I'm a Clark Summit guy, but all in the Scranton universe.

And I will say this: I did a deep dive on his past

as a defensive coordinator in high school, and I found it incredibly relevant, if I can just opine for one second on that.

We have four and a half hours left.

Okay, we'll do that.

We're just gonna go back to the next one.

This is the Vic time.

Yeah, yeah.

So

back then,

there were like no quarterbacks in the Scranton area at all.

It's like all these coal mining kids.

It's all running game, right?

You throw the ball two or three times a game.

Hell yeah.

But within this, right?

Every coach is trying to differentiate themselves.

So one offense is Wing T, one offense is Houston Veer.

One offense is, you know, Power I, right?

And if you extrapolate that out, and I was talking to a bunch of the old coaches that he used to coach against, and one of them made a great point.

He's like, Connor, that's the Chiefs.

The Chiefs are Wing T.

The Chiefs are Veer.

The Chiefs are split back.

And that's their running game to the point where...

I was talking to a couple of their coaches about this actually today.

I got up early after sleeping like four hours to go to availability to confirm this for you guys for underdog.

What the Chiefs were doing in that game against the Bills where they scored those two touchdowns, one Patrick Mahomes run and one Kareem Hunt run out of the same formation.

That's an inverted wishbone from like the 1960s.

Which is very cool in itself.

Very cool.

Yeah.

Very, very cool.

But I think the point Connor's making is that Vic Fangio has seen it all at this point.

But what's so interesting is with both of these coordinators, and I think the coordinator battles in this game are one of the most fascinating elements to it, especially for like the real sickos like us four.

And, you know, I think Jason as well over in the distance voice of God.

It's very cool sitting in the same room as you, by the way.

Arizona Diamondbacks.

I love it.

So the coordinators are so interesting because they're all so uniquely dastardly in their own way.

And I kind of lump.

Matt Nagy in with Andy Reid, obviously, in this way,

except for Kellen Moore.

He's not very dastardly.

Like, I don't see him as sort of this, this ethos, this vibe, as some of these old heads who are able to basically take things that they saw in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and things that they coached at that time and modernize them and mold them to fit all of these different players that they have who are capable of doing multiple things in particular on each of these defenses, these hybrid players who are capable of rushing the passer when it's the case of Spags and some of the blitzes he sends, defending the run.

They've got really old school linebackers on both teams.

And then these young players who are these hybrid like star players, and I say that as the position, not as the description,

the hybrid safety corners who are covering these vast areas of the field so you can stay in a zone defense despite whatever the other team is running at you.

It's just fascinating to me to watch, and I think that's going to be the fun part of this game is that chess match.

Though Kellen Moore is less dastardly, he is more Marie Kwando, and I appreciate that very much about him.

Like he took an Eagles offense that was throwing the ball with Jalen Hurts, who wasn't an incredibly reliable quarterback in the 2022 Super Bowl.

I think what, A.J.

Brown had 145 targets that season.

Devonta Smith had something like 120 targets that season.

You pare everything down.

You simplify, simplify, simplify.

And if you can get the running game going and you can start getting the defense moving the way you want, all these reads become easier for Jalen.

They all become one-on-one situations.

And so as I'm trying to tell myself my own life, there's beauty and simplicity.

You know, that's what we learned from Marie.

Let's talk about that, Connor.

I'm just kidding.

Okay.

I really lay on the couch.

Yeah.

I think you cannot allow the Chiefs to be within a one-score possession at the end of the game because that's what they do.

And they're a pretty unique team.

They kind of remind me of like if a relationship works over years and years, you've got to go through a lot of different challenges.

If you look at the last four or five years of the Chiefs, especially on offense, that's what they've done.

They've had to kind of be a different type of problem-solving offense each year.

And this year, they're like, what they do on offense is they've thrown behind the line of scrimmage at like 27% of the time and had a ton of yards after the catch.

And the Eagles' defensive line, I think, are equipped to stop some of that because they've been one of the best teams on defense in that situation.

You've got to basically force the Chiefs into labored, long drives where they have to use, which I think is not as strong as a running game as you'd like.

And at that point, get up a couple scores.

Last week, or when they played the Commanders, they had their turnover rate, like their takeaways were the difference in that game.

Can you find one or two possessions to take away from the Chiefs?

Like, this is an Eagles' defense.

You look at Cooper Dejean.

You look at the linebackers.

Like, I think they can do it.

They've got to find one way to make the Chiefs uncomfortable and and take them out of this in the fourth quarter.

And that might be playing in a different way than what we've just been talking about with this Vicfangio system where it's it's quite literally a death by 1,000 paper cuts.

I've talked about it before on this show where the Chiefs are actually built perfectly to attack this defense in bits and pieces.

The way that Patrick Mahomes leads the league in throwing the ball behind the line of scrimmage, the way that they have this like vast screen game that Andy Reid's just been cataloguing for like 30 years at this point, the way that they are patient, the way that Patrick Mahomes as a scrambler can pick up these easy yards and has in the postseason especially.

So the Eagles to beat the Chiefs might, first of all, they'll still probably rely on their four-man rush, but they might have to do some different things with their coverages in order to nullify that space in front of them that often they allow in order to frustrate and infuriate opposing offenses.

Vic said at his press conference yesterday, he's like, when I first got into the league as a defense coordinator, I pressured more than anybody.

I could do it again, you know?

And it's just like, okay, let's go, old man.

I could do that if I wanted to.

When Miami played the Chiefs last year.

My girlfriend goes to another school.

When Miami played the Chiefs last year, Vic Fongio rushed Patrick Mahomes 18 times, more than any other game.

And they didn't win, but he unleashed the house on Mahomes.

So we'll see if that happens again.

And these teams obviously played in the Super Bowl two years ago, right?

Which is one of the reasons people are annoyed.

It's like, we already saw this.

But did we really?

Because you look at, I think about about like, what's the difference for the Eagles

and looking at the offensive side of the ball specifically that game that they get beat narrowly and they pretty much get beat, what, because of a

somewhat fluky Jalen Hurts fumble that gets returned for a touchdown.

And then obviously Mahomes has the ankle injury and he comes back and they make the plays as they always do down the end, down at the end.

Chris Jones has a huge hurry in that game

that

foils their last possession, Philadelphia's last real possession.

All that happens.

But that game, Jalen Hurts was the best player on the field for the Eagles.

He threw four touchdowns.

He led the team in rushing.

He was an absolute beast.

Yes.

He was great against Spags Blitz.

Yeah, he was awesome.

And I remember everyone came out of that game like, wow, that's a tough loss for the Eagles.

They had that game.

But holy shit, Jalen Hurts is the future of the league.

It hasn't quite

turned into that, although Hurts has continued to be a high-end starter in a lot of ways.

but this team is so different.

Like, their running backs, you guys remember who their running backs were in that Super Bowl?

Wasn't it like Miles Sanders as well?

Byron Scott, I think.

And they could not move the ball in the garden.

Now you have Saquon Barkley.

And it's like, oh, Lord.

So you don't have

now the Jalen Hurts, and that offense is different now.

And I don't see them throwing it around the yard.

But with Barkley there with this offense, offensive line, I just, he's reached that special place, Barkley, where you know he's going to have a massive run in this game.

So it's just a matter like you, you almost have to just book it.

He will have a 50, 60, 70, 80 yard touchdown run in this game.

Like he is at that Bo Jackson Tech Mobile level.

And it's like, how many of them will he have?

Or does Spaggs and the Chiefs defense have the game of their life and shut down Saquon Barkley, which literally no one has been able to do?

It's like not to oversimplify it, but that is so much the key part of this game.

They're so built to be dominant along the offensive line, obviously.

Like Jeff Stoutland, remember like Jason Kelsey in his retirement speech talked about Jeff Stoutland like over and over like he is beloved by his players he's found a way now they're in their line and was banged up in the NFC title game those guys are practicing fully was Barkley by the way he yeah he was limited with a calf injury and still had three touchdowns well and Kenneth Gainwell came in and did a great job but he's he's hurt so that there's a little the Chiefs are totally healthy the Eagles have a few little issues but I think the reason that like you don't need Jalen Hurts to throw the way he did in that other game is just what you said like they run the ball 56% of the time.

That's vastly more than anyone else.

And Saquon Barkley has been dominant when they're winning in the second half.

And if they can stay in the game and just allow it, just be what they were character-wise against Washington, it's like, how do you stop them?

Yeah, I like to overcomplicate things.

You guys know this about me by now.

We love it about you.

That's your word.

In life and in football.

But

I really do think, Dan, to your point, I think this can actually be boiled down to some really simple stuff, which is which team runs the ball better, which team stops the run better, and which team has a lead first?

Because if the Eagles get a lead first, then they can stay in their A-plus plan, which is running the goddamn ball into everyone's face, including probably people in the stands, and they can stay there.

They can live there.

Kellen Moore is very happy there if he can just be simple and comfortable in that space.

If the Chiefs get a lead first and they find themselves in their A-plus, conversely, defensive plan against a deficit-tailing Eagles team, then they can unleash some of these Spagnolo blitzes.

They can actually force Jalen Hurts into passing situations where you're going to want to probably have him passing while scrambling versus stepping up and into his throws like how he was so effective the last time that Spag sent all these blitzes after him in a big game such as this.

And so that is what I think it really comes down to is running the ball, stopping the run, and who has the lead first.

And it's wild because it's so simple, but there's such a dance that's going to unfold through all of it.

And you don't want, like, I think one of the things that's masked, especially for the Eagles during this run, is like, wow, they've transformed everything.

And Makai Bechton's been kind of a centerpiece of that.

But you get the Eagles behind the sticks where they have to start throwing.

And Makai Bechton's isolated against one of the best pass-rushing defensive tackles of our generation, you know, aside from Aaron Donald, right?

And all of a sudden, you know, Makai is a great.

powerful run blocker, but I do think that there is a weakness there if he's got to be on an island.

If some of these guys have got to be on an an island, they've suffered in those situations.

There have been a couple like key takedowns of Jalen Hurts for that exact reason.

For big losses, too.

And if Chris Jones finds himself doubled, George Karloftis is like a postseason machine.

He's three sacks, 17 pressures just in the postseason.

I mean, my goodness, it's like, you know, you're going to have to pick.

which way to, I guess, allow pressure and which way to mitigate it.

And I think this is where also some of the short game that we have not, this is my beef with Kellen Moore, some of the short game that we haven't always seen him go to quickly enough, or some of the consistency and just keep running the ball.

You're doing fine.

Like, you know, it's not the most efficient thing when you're biting off two, three yards per carry.

But if you keep Saquon churning, he will go over 100 yards.

It is just a fact of this season.

And so that's where it's like, okay.

The Chiefs, I have no doubt, if they can get into their A-plus rush plan, they will get pressure.

But I want to see a different plan for Jalen Hurts when he is facing pressure than what we saw in the postseason, especially against the Rams, for example, that were forcing him into these like infuriatingly deep passing situations with middle and long developing plays where he's taking sacks for like 9 and 14 yards because Kellen's dropping him too deep.

It's our same complaint about Joe Brady in the championship game, right, against the Chiefs.

And this is what Shane Steichen did really well with Jalen Hurts when they were together and before he left for the Colts.

Give him an obvious answer at the line of scrimmage, a pass where you just take two steps back and you fire it.

I mean, this was the plan when they beat the Giants in the playoffs leading up to that.

They had Dexter Lawrence on the other side of the ball.

Don't even let him touch Jalen Hurts.

Give him the answers at the line of scrimmage.

Let him get rid of the ball before it happens.

And I would like to see a little bit more of that from Kellen Moore this time.

And the way with the Eagles, too, they're kind of hard to nail down because the version of the Eagles that we saw in the NFC title game against the Commanders, their A-plus game, they're not going to lose.

Like, they will win the Super Bowl if they are able to play at that level and have a game script like that.

But

one of the reasons why sometimes they've been a hard team to figure out, or people that maybe didn't want them to win, have been infuriated at the time.

There's no need to point fingers here, is that there's been so many other games, including in the playoff run before the NFC title game, where it's like, man, these guys are there to be had.

And they've had some head-scratching decision-making.

Obviously, the inconsistency in the passing game, the disappearance of A.J.

Brown, almost sometimes like that.

We're going to keep giving it to Saquon until he finally breaks one.

Like,

what is it possible we get a different version?

And this is where we get the version where the Eagles aren't humming and then they play right into the Chiefs' hands.

It does spook me as someone who's watched football for a long time now.

And this is all due respect to Vic and Kellen and the head coach.

I got balls.

I got big balls.

I'm Mixeriana.

Two weeks, Sestog.

Two weeks for Steve Spagnolo and Andy Reid to make sure that the Eagles can't bring their A-plus game plan.

I have so much belief in that that the Eagles, if they think they're going to be able to have their way with their opponent the way they do with Washington, I just don't think it's going to happen.

So, can they adapt when some of these things get shut down the way they weren't in the NFC title?

That's why it's clearly the two best coaching staffs in the league and the two best teams.

And

I really think so.

Can we calm down?

Now, Nick Ziriani is the head of the best coaching staff in football.

The Eagles, like the Eagles,

he's not even a coach of the year candidate.

He's the best team building.

And

He should be of anything.

Like, I mean, if he goes and wins two Super Bowls and, you know,

like goes to his second Super Bowl and wins one, like, that tells me that he's doing something.

He's got a great staff and an amazing roster is what he's got.

Okay, but our expectations, like, Coach of the Year often goes to, like, someone who exceeds expectations.

We'd all just prefer Nick Siriani not exceed expectations because our expectations for him are scream at people in your own fan base and make some egregious game management call.

So, you know, we would prefer that he keep the status quo.

I would say one thing, like, the Eagles, like, if it's worth it.

One more Siriani aside, Mark, and then I'll throw it back to you.

And there's a piece, I think, in The Ringer this week about here's a timeline of Nick Siriani, why you love him, why you hate him, and all that.

The Nick Siriani that's been more buttoned up the last five weeks, I've been bored by this Nick Siriani.

I want him to- This is how he gets you.

Yeah, like maybe, because I've been predicting for so long that he's going to have this blow-up at some point in the playoffs, and maybe it happens in the Super Bowl, which would be f ⁇ ing amazing.

But at the same time, he has smartly receded to the background during

the postseason in terms of giving people reasons to bring more scrutiny onto the team that they don't need right now and more work for Dom to do.

So, Nick, I know it's in you.

I know all you want to do is scream at the stands and fight with people on the sidelines and punch Dom in the face.

I know all that, but

you're being smart about it.

So, respect to you.

Did Connor tell you guys that he's actively stalking Big Dom?

I believe it.

I mean, he wrote a whole piece about Italian-American culture in the phone offices ago.

Dom is the center of the universe in that.

I think it's a violet magnifico of Connor's real assignment this week.

I think what it is, is I just kind of wanted to present it to him.

That's it.

You know, like, I wish I had it in a bird copy.

Played a veal parmesan.

Yeah, just like, I did this for you.

You know, and just.

Were you able to do that?

Not yet, but I'm working on it.

More time.

I don't know if we can say this, probably can say this.

I ate at the same place as the Eagles again last night.

Oh, shit.

Was Dom there?

up.

Yeah.

Did you say hi?

No.

Did you go cut a lock of his hair?

It would be amazing.

I don't know if we.

Does he have hair?

Wait, we don't know.

Does he have hair?

Dom's bald, right?

Flip the cap.

He's a full ball.

I've never really seen him without a hat at all.

Do you know how dangerous it would be to flip the cap and find out?

I'd wake up in a hospital.

This tuberculosis hospital.

If you made a cute noise while you did it, like boom, boom, boom.

There's something really funny about

Connor rolling up to the Eagles' front office table and coach's table with his phone out and being like, check out this story.

Just like scrolling and hoping Dom reads it.

It's like the most.

Line-by-line sess dog.

Yes.

I promise to get it back to you.

Justin, stay out of it.

That ship has sailed.

That ship is like in central, outside of Italy at this point.

I just wanted to say quickly, I did a Google search of Big Dom, and I'm pages deep in the scroll, and I have not seen a picture of him without a hat.

Right.

My people.

It's like an actual shot.

This is the first time Jordan has been on the forehead.

Oh, wait, here's my favorite.

This is my forehead.

It's almost, yeah, it's like that move when someone that's always worn glasses, as long as you know them, all of a sudden gets contacts, and you're just like, What you aren't a human anymore, you're a different person.

That's what's happening.

Yeah, but how do we know that's you know?

We found a photo of Dom looking like

he just like got kicked out of of Rutgers for fighting at the bar.

There's some hairless.

20 years old.

That is not new.

That is not Dom.

Mark,

I throw it to you.

I think

you're a little low on the Eagles in the sense that you're kind of waiting for

some of the older games from this season.

Like since week five, Hurts has like 33 touchdowns and three turnovers.

I mean, he's been on fire.

And I think I'm trusting that what we saw against Washington is like, here's our potential.

And it happened a fortnight ago.

Like, that can happen again.

Can it happen against the Chiefs?

Absolutely can.

I absolutely am not.

I don't think there's just like a devil around the corner that's like going to take them back to week four when they were figuring out.

It's not week four, though.

I guess that's my point.

Like the divisional round game, remember our conversations we were having about how they handled that and how that game almost slipped away against the Rams.

Jordan, you were there for it.

Like that game, that was right on the bleeding edge of them having one of the great collapses at the end of the game.

They held on by the skin of their teeth.

Yeah, and Dan, I think you make a good point, too, about how this is not necessarily, I mean, this is such a well-coached team that they actually are not at all the same team that the Chiefs are not the same team at all that they were to start the beginning of the year.

We saw them as like this sort of like

van that was old that was sort of like starting and stopping going down the street.

And just you feel the exhaust and you hear pops every once in a while and you're just like, ah, is that thing going to break down?

It's like a 2016 TNC on a road trip.

Well, you know,

I'm glad you said it.

I've been worried, Connor, so just kind of leave.

It's down here.

It's parked right outside.

It's fine.

Yeah, for now.

If that's the case, it's on cinder blocks right now.

I'm sorry to tell you.

And that is, that's also where Connor's sleeping every time.

Exactly.

But yeah, can I use the shower here, by the way?

Absolutely.

Anytime, buddy.

So, but I think that this is an interesting thing because you've seen them stacking little pieces together, little ideas.

Andy Reid has sort of almost been like using part of the season as his science experiment.

We've talked about like these theories that we have before on this, on this show about how he uses like the first half of the season as an entire entire setup for the second half of the season.

Kind of have to do that when you've got a roster with some of your key players are getting kind of old.

But they've added elements to this offense.

They've kind of overhauled some of their special teams.

They actually compete on kick returns now.

And I'm blinking on his name right now, but the young receiver and kick and punt returner who basically took a roster spot from one of the former Super Bowl team rostered players is now returning and setting Patrick Mahomes up in good spots.

They've got Hollywood Brown back.

They've increased their scoring average because they're getting Xavier Worthy and Hollywood Brown in different dynamic and multi-dimensional ways in the passing game.

They actually have a threat of an explosive passing game now.

And I just go back to thinking like how things change over the course of a season.

We were all, we weren't laughing because we're nice, but everyone was laughing.

Well, some of us are nice.

And

everyone was laughing over that clip of Xavier Worthy just getting like stoned in man coverage in a practice that meant nothing in training camp.

Well, now he's basically unguardable, and I know Justin's enjoying watching every snap of that.

What is it, hook'em?

Hookum horns?

Hook all the horns.

I said the wrong one earlier.

My bad.

Not horns up.

My bad.

Horns.

Okay.

But it's interesting because

this is not the same Chiefs team.

They're totally different.

Full the thought on the Chiefs.

Okay.

Last thoughts.

on the Eagles, how they win the game before we take a break and spin to the Chiefs formally.

Structure.

Formally.

Organization.

Yes.

Saquon Barkley, we all know it's his birthday.

He's 30 yards short of the regular season and postseason single year record.

I think it happens on the first play.

I think if you're the Eagles.

Is that your fearless prediction?

No.

Spoiler earlier.

It's attached to it.

Come out and be dominant early.

Take the Chiefs, like we talked about, out of what they want to do.

If you can puncture the defense early and get up 14-0.

And then this team creates turnovers.

And that's the Chiefs' magic special slot.

Although Mahomes has had a couple weird turnovers in the Super Bowl, like create problems, create a turnover.

I know that's simple, but just like get up early and grind and destroy because I think they want to power run and kill people.

And that includes Jalen Hurts on the ground.

And just like take the Chiefs out of this in a physical way.

And I'd be remiss not to mention what I think is the Eagles' biggest advantage here, which is they have, led by Jalen Carter, this ability to blow up a Chiefs' offensive line that's vulnerable.

And that's the only time Mahomes got beat in the Super Bowl.

It was when the line couldn't hold up, and it fed their entire game plan up.

If that happens again, and it can,

the Chiefs are going down, and the three-peat, Pat Riley just got $14,

will be kaput.

But there's so much of the game, I think, that rides on can this KC protection hold up?

Because they, to fix the left tackle problem, they had to weaken Frank Caliendo's playing guard.

Mike Caliendo.

No, it's Frank.

It's Frank.

Frank Caliendo's at guard.

You have Tooney doing his best on left tackle.

Like you have Jeron Taylor holding and lining up in the wrong spot half the time.

Like this could blow up for Kansas City in that way the same way it did four years ago.

And we see Patrick Mahomes do these magic things in the margins and win in these little moments, right, that just turn things completely.

The Eagles have four of those guys up front that do that.

They win, they change games completely.

They blow up games completely.

Jalen Carter has been doing this frequently throughout the season and particularly in the postseason.

And they've got guys all around them that do make those momentum swinging plays in the same way that we've just gotten so used to.

Mahomes doing it, well, they can pull it right back.

I go to my guy Vic, and I'll give him the closing word on this for the Eagles.

Oh, are we fighting over Vic now?

Well, I mean, I was born close to it.

Scranton, you know, Scranton.

Scranton in Arizona, there's a big difference.

Do you agree?

One of you have to live with Vic in an apartment for a year.

It's about like, oh, you're good.

You got it.

I'm just picturing him, him, by the way.

Oh, good.

Jordan staring at the ceiling, thinking about how Connor won the tiebreaker and who loves Vic more because of the Scranton geographical connection.

And

I'm sorry, but that's a possibility for you.

I'm a little heartbroken.

I should have moved, you know, when I had the chance.

You know, what has growing up in that area ever gotten me except this?

You know, so I need this one, you know, I need this one thing.

This is rich.

This is a rich victory for you.

Yeah, I think this is like I've been waiting my whole life for this.

Like, the office did not.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting.

Well, yeah.

We might have to separate Jordan and Connor now, Mark.

You might have to sit in between them for the balance of the program.

So he just can feel like I'm a, when I feel something, everyone else feels it.

That's part of the

horrible qualities.

And so he's just going to feel he's just going to feel grief like in waves off my body.

You're going to start to see his right shoulder sinking a little bit.

I'm just going to get closer and closer to Mark throughout the reverse action.

I'll just go back myself.

Like Connor's arm eventually beat the radiation and his arm decays or he just falls off.

He's going to be like lose this part of his beard.

There's going to be like two patches in it.

It's gone.

But to give Vic the final word,

someone asked him about this game and his hopes for it.

And he said, and I quote, I hope we play good and we'll see what happens from there.

The best.

And that's why he's fange, yo.

Hey, pivot, just three days until the big game.

Can you believe it?

Wait, and the copy that you sent me, Justin, there's no question mark.

So it's, can you believe it?

It doesn't.

It's

reader interpretation.

So I'll go, can you believe it?

I think we can believe it.

That was nice.

And Underdog is giving out a big game, no sweat token to all you exclamation point.

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audience only.

Teary!

All right.

Here we go.

So that's the Eagles side.

Now, the Chiefs side.

Sest Dog.

How do the Kansas City Chiefs three Pete?

$14, Pat Riley.

I think what we've seen from the Chiefs, especially against Buffalo, where Mahomes, they just play their game.

They effectively, I think, spread the ball out to eight or nine different people.

It's what we've talked about, a lot of yards after the catch.

But then you got like Xavier Worthy was making plays downfield.

Juju Smith-Schuster was making plays downfield.

Can you do that against this offense?

And can you, I think, create 11, 12, 13-play drives?

Because you're going to have to.

You're going to have to.

And you're going to have to play what they've done before, which is mistake-free, and you own each quarter's time of possession.

You keep the Eagles off the field, you prevent the typical Eagles' turnover, and you don't let the Eagles go total explosive early.

Like, it's just kind of be what you are.

Like, they're not flashy, they're not a lot of fun to watch.

That hasn't changed, but they are efficient, effective, and they're now using four or five different players that they weren't back in September.

35 rushing attempts against the Bills, and that Patrick Mahomes stat line, Connor, Connor, you kind of have gotten used to it now.

18 to 26, 245, a touchdown, clean play, and then his,

it's kind of the, I think the amazing thing about Mahomes, right, is like he broke onto the scene as this dynamo that was setting passing records and bombing downfield to Tyreek.

And now he is like

this master of the game plan.

And

when it's in scheme with Andy Reid's setup and Nagy, like they can beat you.

But then when you have to go off-platform, he never seems to make the wrong decision.

And he's just, he feels, I feel like I'm watching the smartest quarterback since Peyton Manning, or maybe even the smartest quarterback ever.

The way the game is just all in front of him.

And that's part of, again, one of the, why do the Chiefs always win these games?

It's not just because the refs are in their back pocket or they're lucky.

It's like you have this guy at the center of everything that will always seem to make the right decision in the highest crucible moments of the season.

But also within that context, right?

Because, I mean, even the last game against the Eagles, the Super Bowl game, was a narrow victory.

And to me, the path for the Chiefs is, what's your thing that you're going to come out with that the Eagles haven't seen yet?

And there's been this little surprise thing in each of the last few Super Bowls.

I think it was the previous Super Bowl victory against the 49ers, coming out after halftime and basically running like an Alex Smith Urban Meyer style sprint option package, which, like, who is going to think to prepare for that during the week?

And I had this cool story actually talking to a few coaches before I came over here.

The genius of Andy Reid is in the fact that he can look at a play and he'll have guys bring him black and white clips from YouTube, right?

And he can look at it and say, Okay, this is how exactly how I'm going to translate it to my offense.

And then they'll show it to the players on Thursday where they'll be like, Okay, play one in the script.

Travis, you're here, you're here.

And then they'll show him a clip from earlier in the season that's like, This is what the play looks like.

Play eight in the script.

Travis, you're here and you're here.

This is what the play looks like.

And it's like a newsreel from the 1940s.

It's like,

and it's like, it's like this like trickeration play that's just like baked into the game plan.

Somewhere in there, that's going to form the baseline of something that the Eagles, that Fangio haven't seen before, at least on film this season.

And while Fangio may be familiar with it, how do you adapt in real time?

And it's just those narrow, narrow margins.

It's enough to produce one good touchdown drive, and that's all you need.

I think of the Kadarius Tony play from the Super Bowl.

And that, you know, they talk about Reed having an entire number of pages of plays that, that, right, are being

cooked about nowhere.

And Vitfangio, like the 0-7 stat versus Mahomes, sure, but, like, I do wonder if it helps that he's faced Andy Reid and Mahomes this many times.

And I'll say.

And Matt Nagy.

Yeah.

And I'll say this.

I was the pool reporter for the Chiefs two years ago, and so I was the only reporter at practice.

You're not really allowed to say what goes on in real time.

But I will say the amount of trick plays, the amount of fascinating stuff that was happening that was just left on the cutting cutting room floor, but was possibly within the bounds of the game plan for that week was staggering.

And so the fact that they just have this depth of that all, I think that's what is going to blow my mind, you know?

Yeah, I think, and just to go back to circle back on something you said earlier, Connor, because you got to be careful when using the two words chiefs and script.

So I want to explain to the listener a little bit more about, so that is a predetermined, malleable, but predetermined.

I always compare it to like a charcuterie board.

Like you have a certain amount of ingredients.

It's usually your opening drive.

You got the little pickles on it?

Yeah, the little pickles.

I had the one with head cheese the other day.

Kirkens?

Head cheese.

Yeah.

What is head cheese?

I had it two days ago.

I ate it.

It's the boiled-down head of a pig.

No, no, no.

We talked about this, and then it comes out of a tube or something.

And then it's cut into like a gelatinous rectangle.

And you ate it.

I ate it.

What did it taste like?

It was liver-wished?

It was kind of like an onion-y tuna salad.

What is that?

The retina?

That is the onion.

An onion-y tuna salad, but if you put the tuna in a blender first.

Once again, Connor,

I worry about you often.

I didn't order it.

It came as a.

It was like butcher's suggestion.

And I think what you're doing.

Well, you can't blame the system for a choice you made.

I was telling them when I lived in England when I was very young, right?

Yes.

One of my first.

Wait, you lived in England when you were younger?

I know that's not breaking news, but one of my first memories was being in a stroller and going into town.

And

I swear to God, I'm in this.

And I had to confirm this with my mother.

It's all legend at this point.

I confirmed it with my parents, but there was a butcher shop, like an old British-type butcher shop.

And in the door,

check us out, there were hooks with the heads of pigs on it.

And that's where head cheese comes from.

Isn't it like scientifically proven you don't start to form real consciousness until you're like five or six?

But maybe there's such a startling moment that you come online.

That would have been a startling moment.

Oh my god, look at this pig.

I confirmed this with

my parents?

All right, bring them in.

Here they are.

They're not Ed and Judy Sessler.

They're not here.

Not Judy.

This is Barbara.

Barbs.

Ed and Barbs.

That would be amazing, by the way.

And the show just turned to like Connor and Jordan.

Yeah, they're good.

They're gone.

And then it's just

a Sessler, like Barbara Walters, like sit down with me moderating it.

Don't need it right now.

We're really worried about you, Mark.

That never happened.

That's probably from the transcript.

So a game script is when

you have this board of individual ingredients and you're putting these different combinations of plays together.

The Gherkins.

And that reminds Connor of this time now.

We'll talk more about head cheese.

And so you and Vic can share that.

Lady in the tramp style, just slurping a retina until your faces touch.

Love that.

So it basically is a predetermined but malleable and changeable array of plays that you you use usually in the first 15 to 20 plays, depending on which coach you are of a game, usually on offense.

Some defensive coaches have done this before, which is fascinating.

But you can use that to almost basically, if you can score a touchdown off of it, then you can stay in your A-plus plan, which is what we were talking about with the Chiefs.

Get Spagnolo, because this defense really, over the years, has grown so well to complement and really become its own assertion and its own individual personality within this Chiefs team.

So a lot of it it is Andy Reid wanting to get Steve Spagnolo into that A-plus plan.

And so when Connor's talking about the script that they're putting together in the Chiefs script, that's what he's talking about is how do you come out of the game using unscouted looks, using things that break defensive tendencies, using things that scout the way that the defense will cover space, using things that test the way that they'll react to one thing before switching it to a different thing with the same look pre-snap

in the later parts of the game.

That's what the Chiefs are so good at and have been for so many years that Andy Reid has been good at even well before he was with the Kansas City Chiefs.

When you have a quarterback like Pat Mahomes, you can also make those adjustments and you can change those things from quarter to quarter, not just half to half.

If you see the Eagles' defense react one way to one thing, you can change that the very next time he has the ball.

The Hollywood Brown being back, it's still a bummer that Rashi Rice is gone.

Yes.

Because that was it's almost, it's so, I got to to give so much credit to the Chiefs.

I know everybody like hates the Chiefs now.

I just don't, I can't wrap my head around.

Like, the fact that they were able to,

Hollywood Brown goes out on the first play of the preseason and is lost for three months.

And he's like, oh, he was going to be a big, he was going to open up the passing game for them.

And now he's gone.

And then he's like, well, they got a Rashi Rice here.

And then he has a horrific knee injury on like an interception where it was Patrick Mahomes' helmet or something that blew out his thing.

Like when you think about like midway through this Chiefs season, how I was like, well, now what are they going to do?

And like Travis Kelsey looks old.

The fact that they were able to navigate that and get their way through it and then get to the point where they could put up a 30 burger to beat the Bills and the playoffs.

Again, that's why I keep coming back to

the coaching advantage I think they have in the two weeks.

And now that the health, obviously they're not getting Rice back till next year, but I'm wondering with the offense, if we see...

any return.

And again, this is going to go back to the offensive line question because you have to give Mahomes time to make it happen.

What does the surprise that they hit the Eagles with?

Is it we're actually going to try to attack downfield, which they just haven't had much success with in the last couple of years?

And they, frankly, because of the issues with the offensive, I think Mahomes has had had to have a different strategy with this.

Wouldn't surprise me if they had a couple tricks up their sleeve with Xavier Worthy and maybe Hollywood Brown now feeling

strategy removed from the injury.

I feel like a lot of it happens in the red zone.

There's a lot of trickery down there and stuff you haven't seen in its looks you haven't seen in a short amount of space.

But I mean like big explosives and not 20-yard explosions.

They're like 31st in explosive plays.

So you're right that I think their wide receiver room now,

if it was this way all year, you'd be like, they're fine.

Right.

Yeah.

They're fine.

Like they've got a lot of different people they can spread the ball out to.

And like Samaji Pirine

had a huge moment.

Like you just don't kind of know who's going to be used.

I think part of it is like, who are you using?

How are you using them?

And Vic Fangio's not seen it before.

I think it depends too on what Vic shows them, right?

I mean, if Vic comes out and again and is like, like, I want this to be an umbrella defense, I want to keep everything in front of me, that's fine.

If he wants to break his own tendencies and he wants to go back to something that he was exploring earlier in his career, which I doubt because everyone seems so comfortable and this defense is so young, why would you switch it up on it?

Yeah.

I mean, why would you do that on the fly?

Then you open up the door, I think, for some of these shot plays.

Yeah, it's interesting.

The Chiefs, when you look at their season statistics, they're like 27th in explosive pass play rate.

Watching, Mark, to your point, watching them for the last five games, you're like, well, that's not this team.

They're different.

Yeah, and they're using guys in different ways.

And I think a lot of it has to do with Andy Reid over time.

I think he's one of the best coaches in getting a feel for what players are capable of over time.

And it's a trust factor.

He's been public saying, like, in his meetings at the beginning of the season, you know, and I think your guest on yesterday's show,

Pete Sweeney, was talking about this, where he talks about trust.

And he says, if you lie to me, or if you do this, or that, like, he has to trust you.

And over time, you see that almost like it's his offense almost unfurls like a fan in a way, like over time.

It's just like wrinkle by wrinkle by wrinkle by wrinkle.

And all of a sudden, it's using every single blade of grass on the field before you even know what happened.

I love that.

Thanks, Dan.

That's wonderful.

Yeah, and

that the wide receiver group again and the Kelsey conversation.

So you mentioned Juju Smith-Schustermark had, he had an impact.

He had two for 60, and they were both big plays in that that game.

So, you know, getting those contributions, and then what version of Kelsey shows up?

Because Kelsey was a monster in the divisional game, and then they found a way to negate him a little bit.

Although I feel like there were times where maybe he could have had, he was open a few different spots, and they just didn't get him the ball.

Like, are we going to get the vintage Kelsey game?

Do they need a vintage Kelsey game to win this game?

I don't know if they absolutely need a vintage because they're not as reliant on him in recent weeks or at times in this season.

But

over and over, the Super Bowl has been total money for Kelsey.

And I think that just spiritually, they're going to want that to happen.

I just don't think that the Eagles linebackers let tight ends do much against them in general.

And this is Zach Bond, who

was getting defensive player of the year buzz throughout the latter part of the season.

And one of the Vic Fangio guys that he sort of pulled out of obscurity.

And now it's like one of the names that you know on this football team.

You know, the Eagles linebackers are among the best coverage linebackers linebackers and shutting down the middle of the field and limiting passing EPA specifically to tight ends in the NFL this season.

And that's where they had so much success, particularly against like when they played the Texans.

And all they did was funnel everything either short and in front of them or into the middle of the field where the Texans had no players.

And so I don't know that you can necessarily do that because so much of this is just about putting that dude where other dude is not.

And the Eagles just have so many dudes.

I was just about to say that.

Again, it's such a different matchup than when they faced off two years ago, right?

Oh, my God, Justin.

So many dudes.

Yeah, we're not going to revisit it.

So many dudes.

The Eagles, the Chiefs.

Oh, my God.

What a ride.

Stupid.

The Eagles, the difference, or the added challenge here for the Chiefs is,

yeah, Kelsey is two years older.

Hopkins was a nice addition, but he's been banged up in the back half of the year, back half of the year.

Hollywood Brown has never really gotten his C-legs yet.

You've had, you know, it's been a pretty solid rookie season at times for Worthy, but he didn't hit the ground and become a super stud.

Like, then you look at the Eagles, their defense now compared, especially last year, but they have just playmakers at every level.

And

do the Chiefs have the ability to find ways to avoid the guys at every level of that defense, whether it's Carter or Bond or the rookie corners, like to not screw up their season.

But here's the thing.

I mean, these guys are still so incredibly young.

I mean, Dejine and Quinyon Mitchell.

Zach Bond has been playing off-ball linebacker for 16 games.

Vic Fangie was saying that earlier in the week, where when I looked at his tape, there were only four plays that I saw where he was doing the actions and the movements of an off-ball inside linebacker.

And then we transitioned him to that position after being a primary edge rusher.

Was this during your private dinner that you two had together?

Scrat nights.

Talk about it.

Can I have all the details?

You can't.

Not for Pennsylvania.

Yeah.

Arizonans need not apply.

Yeah, it's sort of an Omerta thing.

You guys wouldn't understand.

But in order to, there is a lot of meat on that bone, right?

Where it's like there's just stuff that Zach Bond hasn't seen.

And no matter how sage the man is that's explaining this to you, you know, or Cooper DeGene or Quinyon Mitchell, like DeAndre Hopkins has a library of experience to the point where, you know, when he came to Kansas City, like he changed some of the ways that the Chiefs practiced and that they did stuff offensively.

Like he was teaching people stuff.

So do we think that that comes into play at some point during this game?

The youth in the inexperience is fun and it's exciting, but much like the Commanders, there's a point where it breaks a little bit on you, right?

And there's a part where it falls apart.

It could crumble if you get Jalen Carter and Nolan Smith going absolutely nuts.

Like, that's the thing I just like, you could, there are little weaknesses on left guard, obviously, for the Chiefs' offensive line.

Like, can he take over a game?

Because

Jalen Carter is going to play every snap and it's going to have a chance to make an impact here.

And that, like, Mahomes going to have to get the ball out very quick, but he's good at that.

He's been great at that all year.

All right.

Before we move on,

any last thoughts about how the Chiefs win the football game?

Rodrigue.

J-Rod, they call her.

They don't.

Okay.

Sorry.

It's got a little bit of heat heat to it.

That's all I'm saying.

I'm not saying like you, I'm not, sometimes you don't get to pick your own nickname, you know?

Like, I've thrown out 17 to the public over the years.

Some stick, some don't.

I feel like J-Rod, there's a little bit of momentum to it.

I feel like all the nicknames you picked for yourself have stuck because you use them so frequently.

You're one of the few people who have been able to pull that off.

Yeah.

It's taken a lot of work.

Seven rate times.

Yeah, a lot of work.

But Jordan Rodrigue,

I'll work on another nickname by the end of the show.

Go ahead.

Chiefs win.

Oh, no, I'm scared.

I mean, honestly, the Chiefs win because I think that they keep it simple and they do things that really could be effective against, I think, the way that Vic Fangio will continue to play this defense that's worked all season.

And I think utilizing Patrick Mahomes in the same way he's just killed these teams in the postseason year after year after year as a scrambler, as somebody who picks up these yards on the ground.

And nobody almost, when you watch him throw the ball, when you watch him move and kind of the dad bought of it all, like you don't expect that he's just going to cut and run and pick up these first downs.

But that absolutely made the difference the first time

these two teams played in the Super Bowl.

That was one of those little details that ended up meaning so much to the outcome of the game.

And the Chiefs just live in those little details, whether it's that or something we haven't even thought of yet.

This is going to be the most D-level Moose Johnson thing, but I mean it at the heart of my core.

Don't turn the ball over.

The Chiefs win if they don't turn the ball over and they hand the Eagles like two extra possessions to drain clock and to keep the ball away from Patrick Mahomes.

I really think it's that simple.

The Eagles have lived, what was their, their recovered fumble rate in this postseason is something like 80%.

It's bonkers.

And that's a massive part of why this has happened the way that it has.

That ended the game quickly against Washington.

I'm with you.

And the Chiefs don't do that.

For me, it's just that you've got Andy Reid and a quarterback that, you know, other teams are switching OCs every two years.

Coaches are coming and going.

They just build this relationship where, and the whole, so many of the players on this team either are hardened veterans who have been around the block or have been in this position late in Super Bowls multiple times in the last five years.

And it's like, that matters.

Like, when we watch dynasties, they get into a fix and they find their way out of it.

And I kind of just feel like no matter what the challenge is, the Chiefs are like, well, we don't care what the challenge is.

We're going to be there in the final three minutes.

And we've got the most locked down quarterback and head coach relationship in the last 20 years.

And we've seen it so many times, including in Super Bowls, including in Super Bowls against the Eagles.

Even if, like, we were talking about when how do the Eagles win?

Get out to a lead, like, change the script up.

They always find their way out, unless it's that bubble year, COVID year, which I don't even know if it existed in reality.

Like, they always find their way out.

So even if the Eagles get out to a fast start, I imagine the Chiefs would find their way back in the game.

But I don't know.

Like, how do they win?

Andy and Spaggs given two weeks.

I think the same way in the old days, I'd think about Parcells Parcells and Belichick get two weeks.

Right.

Or, you know, Belichick and, you know, Josh McDaniels get two weeks.

Like,

that's how they win.

Let's take a break.

We get back.

Fearless predictions.

Game predictions.

And something more.

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Welcome to a very special edition of Walking with Giants.

My auditory love letter, the Pole Footballs Great Tiffany franchise for

Giants.

What an honor.

What an honor it is, Mark,

for us to be

on a very special edition of Walking with Giants, Christopher Walkins' ongoing love letter to his favorite pro football team.

On what is such an important day, I would imagine, for Christopher Walkin.

We've known for a long time who his favorite player of all time is.

Absolutely.

We're close to him, you know, friend of the show, to say the least.

And yes, he is fascinated with one Giants hero of old, and that's that's that's basically what the show is always about.

Yeah, we refer to, of course, Elijah Manning, and he is one of the finalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

As we tape this, and when you hear it, it might already be out there.

He is one of the finalists.

We find out at NFL Honors, which is being taped tonight, whether Eli makes the cut.

And now joining us, and this is such an honor to have him actually in person.

Usually we just play a clip from his podcast that we're just a big fan of.

Here he is on the show for the first time, the great Christopher Walken, Academy Award winner and just an icon of Hollywood.

What's up, Chris?

Hello.

Can you hear me?

Yeah, we got you, Chris.

Am I coming through?

Yes, Christopher Walkin.

Take us through where you're at right now.

I'm sure the butterflies are significant.

Yes,

a collection of letters.

Some would call it a word.

But it's more than a word.

It's a feeling.

It's creepy crawlies going down your back.

It's the chill in the dead of night.

The word

anticipation

of greatness,

of the announcement of one man, a myth, a legend, some would say,

Eli Manning

becoming vaulted into that hall of heroes, the Football Hall of Fame.

It's going to happen.

Let's go.

I think it's fair to ask Mark and Connor your level of confidence.

Is there any scenario?

because there's some people out there Chris that think that Eli's gonna have to wait I mean is that something you either even entertain as a thought that Eli might have to wait for his enshrinement and wear the gold jacket and can put your head in an oven

turn it all the way up

you don't say things like that in my presence younger Christopher I'm sorry there's no chance

we all know what's happening you can sense it walk outside right now everyone's talking about it.

From New York to San Francisco, Eli Manning's name is on the tip of tongues.

Hall of Fame.

I would say that there's a logical reason to think that he might, like a lot of good players, great players have to wait for another year potentially.

But, you know, I guess you got your hand on the bead, Christopher.

But are you open to the idea that the world could work a little differently?

And we just got to say it.

here on Walking with Giants.

And again, it's an honor to be on this program with you, Mr.

Walken.

He was a 500 quarterback in the regular season, two amazing Super Bowl runs beating Brady and Belichick.

Connor, I know you covered some of these games, and

that carries a lot of weight.

But some people say he was a bit of a compiler and not a quarterback that performed at the highest levels within his positional group for many of the years of his career.

Mr.

Walken, this is just Devil's Advocate, but is it possible that Eli Manning was a largely average quarterback who had special moments?

Largely average?

That's a great way to put it.

You're so largely average.

Some people might want to say hugely average, abovely average.

I like the cut of your jib.

You're giving him his props.

I can dig it.

All right.

Anything else, guys, before we end this particular, very special episode on the precipice, potentially Eli Mathing in the Hall of Fame?

Was he in the grasp, Christopher, I guess, is what I heard.

Super Bowl 42, Patriots.

18-0, 19-0, right in front of them.

Should they have blown that play dead?

Very good question, Connor.

Mr.

Walking?

There was no grasp.

The only grasp that Eli was in was in the hands of God.

God knew how that play was going to end.

God wanted it to happen the way it did.

The ball soared through the air,

landed in the tippy-tippy tips of that man's fingers, then clutched to the helmet.

We all saw it.

Don't deny divine intervention, my friends.

Don't deny this man his place in the hall.

Walking out.

Unbelievable.

Thank you very much to

walking.

I'm not out yet.

We're going to have to play out like the Oscars.

Don't.

Wait.

I I have one more thing to say.

Real quick.

I'm gone.

Goodbye.

Okay.

There he goes.

Christopher Walken, walking with Giants.

Thank you so much.

And we'll see what happens with Eli Manning.

Well, there you go.

That was a good app.

I thought it was a good app of walking with Giants.

And again, just to be part of that, obviously, Mr.

Walken is tremendously confident in Eli and almost, Mark, a little bit scared about what happens if it doesn't go that way.

Yeah, almost a one-trick pony is in his opinions.

They don't seem to waver, but I'm glad that we got the episode.

It was a rich episode, probably the most information news-packed one we've gotten.

Jordan, think about this.

We get Luca Donchich

on the Tuesday show, and now Christopher Walken, icon of the silver screen.

Do you know what?

Thursday show.

It's amazing.

First of all, I got an autograph as he was leaving.

Which is crazy because it was a phoner, but yeah.

Well, I mean,

he skyrode it to me.

Oh, that's awesome.

Talk your way into that one.

Do you know what it is interesting, though, because I saw someone who looked remarkably like Christopher Walken actually getting into a Chrysler town and country out front.

So I don't know.

Where was the call coming from?

Do we think it was coming from there?

Calling from inside the house.

And also, do we think he's going to be okay if he drives away in that thing?

I don't know.

That's speculative.

That's a lot of different dangers involved with the 16 TNC, which we'll stick a pin in that.

But I'm trying to get Connor to stop thinking about the TNC, if you know what I mean.

You definitely are.

Yeah.

I'm just trying to get Connor to sign Vic Fangio over to me.

I mean, it'll be easy if I'm dead in that horrible car.

car.

Jordan cuts the brakes so she'll be closer hypothetically to Ben Bangio.

She may not even have to, based on what we know about it.

So, yeah.

All right, let's get into it.

It is

our great regret, although we had no control over it.

Money Mike Dugar, we wish he was sitting with us right now.

He's been doing every Thursday show with us all season and doing great work.

Mike, who, of course, covers the Seahawks for the

Athletic, and he also

covers the the Seahawks for the Sacramento athletics of Major League Baseball.

Um, Mike is on a guide trip vacation right now, but he was

a nice enough uh to send in his Greg Olson.

I mean, what's your name, G-Reg?

What you do?

How you drop my drawers and let us see my third leg chilling on the seventh flow.

I gotta let these chickens know Greg is in the house, and I'm finna make these hoes.

The Money Mike, Greg Olson, three-leg parlay for Super Bowl 59.

Everybody, let's get rich.

Hit it, Money Mike.

This week's Money Mike three-legged parlay brought to you by

the seventh floor, boys.

It's all about the year of the running back.

We're going with Saquon Barkley on all things Super Bowl Sunday.

We're going with Saquon Barkley, anytime touchdown.

Saquon Barkley over total rushing and receiving yards.

I like it at 120, but if some places are only offering about 130 or 129 and a half, that's fine as well.

And we're going going to top it off with Saquon Barkley, MVP of the game.

Those are our three legs.

Now, some places might not let you add the Super Bowl MVP.

If that's fine, if that happens, go ahead and swap that out.

Just add Saquon Barkley at least two plus receptions instead.

But still take that Saquon MVP as well, maybe on a separate ticket because he's going to be the guy in New Orleans on Sunday.

Let's go get this money.

Wow.

That was so nice.

I like the end, the tagline.

Yeah, I like the tagline.

And he spoke with as much confidence about about Saquon basically being the hero of this game and getting people rich as Christopher Watkins spoke of Eli Manning's chance of getting into Canton.

So I've never heard Mike be more confident.

No, I think we should send him to island vacations with other men more often.

Like, that would be, like, you did a wonderful job there.

I mean, I feel like you're framing the vacation in a different way than perhaps Michael Sean Dugar would like you to, but.

Well, I think

it is a guy's vacation, is that correct?

Yeah, I mean, sure.

I'm just saying, like, the way you phrase it.

I'm willing to say I know nothing.

All right.

There's the three-leg parlay.

Let's get into our fearless prediction.

Super Bowl 59.

Sestno, get us going.

All right.

I really like what Mike, where he was going there with all those because my fearless prediction, and I also think that Saquon will be the MVP, but my prediction is that he will cross 200 yards on the ground.

And I think only one run.

I think Timmy Smith.

Tim Smith, I believe, of Washington.

In 22, the Doug Williams game.

People, everybody's obviously.

87, but yeah.

What?

The 87 season.

Yes, what'd I say?

22?

Super Bowl 22, wasn't it?

Oh, okay.

I thought you were saying like 2022.

Got your ass.

It didn't happen three years ago.

You must leave the house.

We both run.

I'm probably wrong.

But anyway, the Doug Williams game, like everybody talks about Doug, and rightfully so, they had this this guy that nobody even knew ran for 200 yards.

Marcus Allen also had a historic Super Bowl game back in around 83, I believe.

So Saquon joins the ranks there.

That's a good one.

That's sound, Connor.

Fearless prediction.

It is.

Yes, Justin.

Sorry, before we move off Mark's fearless prediction there.

Yes, Justin.

Do you know who has the record for most yards from scrimmage in a Super Bowl?

And do you know what that number is?

Trivia.

Is it Jerry Rice?

It's Jerry Rice with 220 yards.

If you think Saquon's going over 200 rushing, he probably catches a few passes.

I like where he's going.

Is Saquon going to break the record

yards in the Super Bowl?

I believe I'm in last place in Fearless Predictions.

We are tied for last.

Yeah, I should say.

Let's go for that.

And by the way, it's the most marked thing ever, and I know exactly what's going to happen now, is that he will go for over 200 yards, but he will then also not beat the Jerry Rice record, so he'll lose his prediction.

Well, he'd have to get, wait, Spice had 200 yards rushing.

What's up, James?

James Palmer, he's got a veggie burrito and

a coffee just dropping

underdog manor.

I mean, you know what it is.

But you know what's going to happen.

That's exactly what happened.

But he'd only need 20 yards for the air.

So I like the concept of this.

Well, not even.

He could go for 221 on the ground or 220 on the ground.

Yeah, well, sure.

207 rushing.

He'll only need 13.

It's happening.

Okay.

Love it.

And yes, Dan, did you want to set it up?

No, I should set it up the stakes of Fearless Prediction.

We've been doing this all season long.

Connor, I know you filled in one of the weeks and helped out with Mark.

But just so you know, I think you got mine right.

What are the standings going into this?

The standings are: Jordan currently sits in first place at 9-11 record.

I don't know if we.

The irony is that Mark and I have had 9-11 level picks all season.

We're way behind her in the standings.

Also, don't do the math.

We haven't done 20 fearless predictions, but we did a double-point week.

Nobody cares.

Mike is 8 and 12.

So one game behind.

I am next at 7 and 13, still within striking distance.

Okay, we could stop there.

Mark and Dan are tied with an absolutely abysmal, unfathomably bad record of 3 and 17.

Three right all season long.

Follow the Heed the Call podcast for all the expert analysis of the NFL.

Combined record, 6-34.

Yes, so here and a rule change because it's the Super Bowl, we are doubling up everything here.

So this fearless prediction is worth double

which means that if Mike gets his fearless prediction

and Jordan does not, they finish tied.

The tiebreaker is Super Bowl 59 fearless prediction.

So Mike would win if both Mike and Jordan.

Pinch yourself, everybody.

If Mike and Jordan both fall short with their predictions, but the gravedigger gravedigger hits his, he moves up and ties them in the standings.

And again, the tiebreaker is the Super Bowl, so Justin can win it.

And then there's Zuzzer and the Cess Dog,

who finishes in the basement.

What do they have to do?

What do you mean?

What is the last place person should have some sort of a punishment or something?

Why am I suggesting that?

Yeah, well.

Only you know the answer to that question, Mike.

Get back to us on that.

All right.

With all the stakes set.

With all the stakes set.

Did you cook one up, Connor, just for fun?

Well, I cooked up two, and if I get both of them right, then I win.

Yes, that is true.

That is such a great call.

If Connor hits his, it's worth a

12 picks.

And that would vault him into all alone alone in first place.

But you have to hit both.

Let's make it six each so he can at least beat you guys somehow if he only goes one pick.

Shut up, Justin.

All right.

All right.

First one.

There is not going to be, and there has been at almost every Super Bowl, a streaker.

There will not be a streaker this year.

That is one of my bullet points.

Nude human running on the field.

A nude human running on the field.

And do you want to know why?

Security is outrageous here in North West.

This is the first time we have a sitting president attending a Super Bowl.

Security is absolutely battling.

Well, it feels like he would grease the skids for that.

Wait, you're saying fully naked or like partially naked?

You could be in your underwear.

We'll allow it if somebody did it.

Yeah.

Okay, so yeah, yeah, I'm saying that no errant human will make it on the field and then off the field.

Problem with sex.

By the way, I feel like...

How is this the first time a president's going to a Super Bowl?

That would be like 50% of the reason I would want to be president to go potentially eight years in a row.

That'd be cool, I feel like.

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, probably got some other stuff he's got to tend to.

But

my second one is going to be a complete inverse of my friend Mark and my friend Money Mike.

I think that Saquon Barkley is going to be outgained by all the other running backs on the Eagles roster.

However, however,

he is going to get widely praised in post-game following an Eagles victory because of his pass protection.

His blocking.

Unbelievable.

He's an all-around running back, and Connor will seize on that with his prediction.

And that is a secret Will Shipley praise take, isn't it?

We know you love Will Shipley.

Okay.

You know, and I think he deserves, obviously, some time to celebrate on his own without anybody taking it

time from him just for once.

One of your worst takes of the year.

Connor says crazy things on his birthday.

It completes the Saquon.

Oh, Connor just says crazy stuff.

It completes the Saquon narrative, right?

Because he gave up the record

at the beginning of the season, and now he's sacrificing himself to pass block.

Unbelievable.

yep that's how it's gonna happen all right jayrod

love when you call me that sorry

this rod rig

jay rizzy i don't know

so i think that specifically saquan barkley will specifically be held to under 100 rushing yards but will still win most valuable plays oh wow

okay specifically rushing yards he's doing something through the air then i will go i'm starting to get an idea of where you guys are going with your game picks.

I will go with the return, as I alluded to earlier in the program, the return of the big play Chiefs offense.

They have a

50-plus-yard touchdown reception.

If you want me to narrow it down to who gets it, it would be either

Hollywood Brown.

Yeah, it'd be Hollywood Brown.

You don't have to do that.

You're already 3-17.

Yeah, you might as well not even have submitted one.

I got a better chance of winning.

According to Mark, though, there's some avoiding punishment.

There's a punishment that we haven't figured out.

Maybe you have to eat the head cheese.

What colour?

You have to eat head cheese away.

I'd leave the country for that.

Anyway, big play, 50 yards.

The rookie wide receiver Hollywood gets it.

And let's toss it to...

Oh, wait.

Justin's like, what about me?

Justin, I apologize.

Your fearless prediction.

Oh, I i would have waited till after mike's to complain about not being called on but um

my fearless prediction so in the postseason with under a minute left and needing a game tying or winning score in nfl history postseason offenses have succeeded 40 of the time patrick mahomes is a perfect seven for seven on such drives the only quarterback to be perfect nice stat this stat has been floating around i didn't research it or come up with it you know You can edit that.

Okay.

My prediction is that Patrick Mahomes becomes seven for eight.

Oh, okay.

Wow.

Wow.

And now to

Money Mike's prediction.

So wait, does he have to, is there, does the setup have to be that he actually must have the opportunity to with the ball

under a minute left needing a game tying or winning score and he will fail for the first time.

I was just seeking clarity because the the stakes are actually high for us, Justin.

So, yeah.

That felt like another dig.

The digs are just

a big dig here.

This has gotten rough.

All right.

Money Mike.

My fearless prediction to cap off the season is that the Philadelphia Eagles in the Super Bowl will have at least two plays of 50-plus yards.

Meanwhile, the Kansas City Chiefs will not have any plays more than 25 yards.

Woo!

Awesome.

I like that one.

He always has such good ones.

This is such a lock-off situation here between Jordan's prediction, Connor's prediction, Mark and Mike's prediction, Dan's prediction.

Pinch ourselves.

All over the place.

Yeah, and we're going to go fight in the front yard after this, like Mark's two aunts that he kept bringing up this year.

Don't bring those aunts.

All right.

Not here.

Before we say goodbye, short and sweet.

Don't overexplain it.

Jordan.

Don't overexplain it.

Final score, MVP.

Go ahead, Jay.

24-21 Eagles.

Saquon's the MVP.

All right.

McConnor.

The 31-28 Eagles.

Jalen Hurts is the MVP.

Eagles, 27, Chiefs, 23.

MVP, Saquon Barkley.

Eagles, 20.

God damn it.

The Chiefs are going to win this game by two touchdowns.

Sorry, Justin.

Yeah, I want to pick the Chiefs silver.

A short and sweet producer.

It goes against my prediction.

So anyway, Eagles 35, Chiefs 31, and the MVP is A.J.

Brown for my, you know, whatever.

Cool.

Did you pin on this game again, you asked?

I did not pen on this game, but

I will be building an underdog pick'em with my no-sweat token.

Okay, good idea.

Good idea.

John and Justin just go on for four minutes right now.

I don't know.

I do not know.

Nobody to pick the Chiefs to win the Super Bowl.

That is hilarious.

I will pick the Chiefs to win the Super Bowl.

28 to 23.

Patrick Mahomes once again wins MVP.

I mean, why do you guys

fall into this trap?

You especially, you've never picked the Chiefs to win a Super Bowl.

It's foreboding what just happened in terms of the lopsided love for the Eagles.

But we knew you weren't going to pick them.

No, I have to stay true to my roots for this show.

And thank you.

I got to say thank you to everybody here.

at Underdog Manor that's helped us out this week.

The whole crew has been so helpful to us as we've done these shows.

We're going to do obviously one more show

back in LA, and that will be the Super Bowl show, and we can't wait for that.

But we just want to thank the entire Underdog crew for helping us out so much.

Colin, Aaron, Dean, John, Summer, like you guys have been so great.

Katie working behind the scenes for Underdog

has been a warrior for us.

James Palmer for helping us out throughout the week.

Of course, Connor and Jordan, did I I miss anybody?

They've been awesome.

And we roll out of bed and they're already setting stuff up.

And

we wouldn't be having this show.

We would be doing them on our phones, sitting on a couch or on the lawn.

You mentioned Jason.

Zumwalt.

Jason Zumwalt.

And yes, if you are in the New Orleans area, yeah, tonight we're doing our live show from Sports Drink with

special guests, including the two people sitting with us right here, and Jason Zumwalt.

So make sure

if you are at the show to say hi to us and we're looking forward to that.

We are now going to disappear

and go explore New Orleans one more night, Mark.

What could happen?

Anything could happen.

All right.

All right.

Enjoy the game, everybody.

Until next time, heed the call.

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