Don't Say "Super Bowl"

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The Heed the Call Podcast

has a very high percentage of smiles and glory holds.

We do.

What of it?

Welcome to Heed the Call

with Dan Hanses and Mark Sessler

as we

get through this dark dark week, post-Championship Sunday, and ahead of Super Bowl 59.

Oh, wait, did I just mess up?

No, I didn't.

I'll tell you why in a second.

Mark, what's up?

Well, now I'm confused by the rules.

Am I allowed to say Super Bowl as well,

or just you?

You can say it.

Anyone can say it until we close the vault.

Okay.

And once the vault is closed, no one says it.

Mark.

Let's get it out now.

Let's welcome in our regular Thursday compadres,

Jordan Rodrigue and Michael Sean Dugar of the Athletic.

How goes it?

What's up?

A little bit of discourse before the show about Mark's shirt, which is wild and different, and it's out there, and I respect it.

As a man that dresses very conservatively in general,

your style, Mark, is a breath of fresh air.

There was also some discussion initiated on your part that you perhaps bought a woman's shirt, which explained why it was ill-fitting in certain areas and contours.

Yes.

It just feels that way to me.

It's different than some of my other shirts.

And there's like a little clasp up here at the top that just you don't see on

typical men's clothing that I have.

So I proposed that maybe it was a woman's shirt, but then I received a text from

the room next door, because you can hear it at this show, apparently.

That must be annoying, alerting me that it is not a woman's shirt.

so fact-checked right and it was a woman correct that had alerted you of that which i feel like gives her extra credibility jordan

you are a woman nicely done dan well spotted nailed it um do women's uh blouses

do women's blouses have clasps

um commonly referred to as the chastity clasp um to prevent certain the male gaze from interfering with our brain waves you know like i get that yeah sure i don't it's on us it's really on us to uh set you know to make sure that the men are not affected by our appearance you know that's that's totally us on and i know mike has nothing in his wardrobe

that would just be my sex you're addicted to sex a sex addiction or something

oh that's an amazing drop i actually this is not related but it reminds me of i've been watching a lot of more disney movies because i'm at home with my daughter now the season's over we've watched mulan the original like twice in the last like five days no it's a very it's a very adult concept like they like eddie murphy's little dragon character refers to her like thing as like a drag show uh and she's a she's referred to as a cross-dresser in the first like five minutes uh of the movie like very adult theme there of like sexism and like gender roles that was deep on top of there just being death in a disney movie like people getting stabbed and stuff that was deep uh wow but obviously her getting called a cross-dresser made me think of that when uh well mark made you think of mark yeah i got oh great Well, you know, for the people listening to this on audio, their minds must be full of images.

Yeah, and you should absolutely go over to YouTube and subscribe to Heed the Call and check out Mark's top.

By the way, one other thought before we move on because we got to get into the show.

We've got a lot to get to.

I do think whether it's a chastity clasp or whatever it is,

it could also be a hook for a vampire's cape.

So I just for you, that I feel like that could be something.

this has maybe this is perfect for you

for me you're that's how I'll walk around town wearing the shirt that way and I think what we all really mean to say in this intro is be yourself and we love you whoever you are whoever you are

yeah you're not you're definitely mark not the only person in Hollywood that would be walking around with a Dracula's cape thinking I mean if I walked a block that way I would not I would not it'd be the reverse of standing out like you there's like a spider-man walking up and down the street there's a fat spider-man right that's the latest guy.

Is that Gnarly Elmo still there?

I've been wondering.

You know, there's a guy in a gnarly Elmo suit, and it's like a bit matted, smells a little funky, some stainage going.

Haven't seen that.

He just seems like he's been through some stuff, you know?

I haven't seen that character of late.

A lot of superheroes, there's a guy that plays Michael Jordan and looks the part to some degree, but also plays Kobe on some days.

So it's confusing.

But these are for people that are here for two or three days

for the visitors.

I would like to get, if you can get a photo of the Husky Spider-Man.

He's got a big pot belly.

It's just not a good...

He's got to figure out a different type of direction here.

You know, speaking for the other...

What the hell is even that?

Speaking of the Zaftig male culture out there, I'd like to say that

just know your limits and wearing spandex

is something.

Well, then again, listen, Jordan, we want to shame anybody either.

I feel like we're being very inclusive in this conversation.

I'm not going to now say don't wear it because you're a heavyset male, but maybe if you're, I don't know, maybe there's a different superhero you could be.

That's all.

Mr.

Incredible is pleasingly plump.

There you go.

You know, he wore spanks.

Think outside the box.

All right.

This is the Don't Say Super Bowl episode.

You will be penalized if you say it.

So please do not say it.

Before we get into that section of the show, which is the bulk of the episode, a couple of notes.

First of all, I got an update.

We haven't mentioned this, Mark.

Our good friend and former colleague, whom I adore and thinks, one of the more talented people,

and I wish I got to work with her more when we were at NFL together, Rachel Bonetta.

She is indeed hosting this event at Sports Drink in New Orleans, where we're doing two live shows.

And so Rachel is who reached out to us, and she's going to be involved with the shows there.

And you can get tickets right now.

Follow the link in the description or our socials.

I got a positive update from Rachel that tickets are selling fast.

There's only a limited amount left.

We have two shows, one at five and one at seven.

So make sure for our Super Bowl shows from New Orleans to get that done before everybody gets to New Orleans and is looking for something to do.

And then bang, you're frozen out of what could be one of the great live shows that's ever existed.

Well, I think by the time you'd get to New Orleans, unless you'd lived in New Orleans, the tickets would be gone, even during the flight across from wherever you live to New Orleans.

So you've got to act on this now.

And Bonetta, what a perfect, we've done live shows with Bonetta before.

She's a legit stand-up comedian in L.A.

now and throughout the country.

So she is a, it is the right person to be linked with.

It is going to be a good show.

Good shows.

Be there or be square.

Any other, Justin, any other Super Bowl-related news?

I think both teams are fairly healthy.

Is there anything hanging out there

as we move away from Super Bowl conversation and seal up the vault?

I know I'm kind of catching you flat-footed here, but I know you're also very talented.

Jordan's throwing her finger up.

She's going to save Justin if it has to happen.

J-Man, what do you got?

I'm here for you, buddy.

All right, we're throwing it to Jordan.

Brandon Graham was just activated off injured reserve.

There's a potential that he could play in this game.

They are leaving the door wide open.

The Eagles are leaving the door wide open for that.

Obviously, he has some history in the big game.

Yes, he does.

He played a central role in the defeating of the great Belichick and Brady in the Super Bowl a few years back.

Brandon Graham, how old is Graham?

He's 36.

He's turning 37 in a couple of months.

This could be one of those things where he goes out there.

And wasn't it a,

what is the injury?

It was like a muscle tear, right?

Let's see.

Taurus triceps

against the Rams November 26th.

So obviously trying to come back from that is very dicey to re-aggravating the injury.

But maybe, Mike, it's one of those things where I'm turning 37.

I'm getting my ass on that field.

It might be my last chance ever to play in the Abe game.

And if he re-injures it, he goes off to the sunset.

And if he doesn't, maybe it turns into one of the great stories of the game.

Yeah, I think this is 10 years.

At some point, this will be 10 years to the day that the Seahawks lost Super Bowl 49.

And there's a bunch of things that stand out from that.

But on the injury front, the Legion of Boom was very banged up.

Sherm basically couldn't feel his elbow coming out of the NFC Championship game.

Cam Chancellor twerked his knee like the day before the game, I think.

And something was going on with Earl Thomas as well.

I forget what it is, but I bring that up to say there was no chance those guys were playing.

Like, Sherm legitimately would have just, if they were like, cut my arm off, like Bucky and the Avengers, I'll go play against Brady.

I feel like that's how a lot of these guys view stuff.

Like, it's the Super Bowl.

Cut my toe off, give me some drugs, whatever needs to happen, I will play in the Super Bowls, you know, especially when you're a guy like, yeah, over 30.

And remember, Brandon Graham had that huge strip sack of Tom Brady when they played each other in the Super Bowl.

Jordan kind of alluded to that moments ago.

I think it would be kind of cool.

Checking back into the show.

The clasp was cutting off some of the circulation.

You know, it's the contours, the contours.

Tough chastity clasp situation for Mark Twery.

Yeah, no, I'm out of my element.

The cool thing, I think, even if he can't play a lot of snaps.

He's a top 10 football insider.

Set sea.

Setsy.

I love it.

what was I even going to say?

Oh, I think it'd be cool.

If he can't play a lot of snaps, yeah.

Oh, yeah, it'd be cool, even if he can't play a lot of snaps, to suit up and be on the sideline to run out of the tunnel.

Like, even those things

to be eligible, as long as they're not obviously taking someone else's key roster spot and moving some of that math around on the game day actives.

Like, I just think it'd be really cool.

Cool story for Brandon Graham, who also seems like one of the all-time good dudes in the NFL as well.

Not cool for the guy that gets deactivated, though.

Fair point.

Fair point.

And also, it's pretty easy to run out of the tunnel at the Superdome because Mark and I were able to do it uncredentialed for field access after the last Super Bowl, which was kind of quite an achievement, Mark, as I recall.

We kind of duck through a curtain.

I feel like even from the time of the last Super Bowl till now, you would take 14 trank darts to the throat if you even attempted to do that.

We'd be killed.

Optical scan.

So, yeah.

Well, that place was that was a house of chaos because the lights had gone out for, you know, 20 minutes or something.

Like there was a lot of structural problems, and we took advantage of that and just hoodwinked our way onto the field.

Unbelievable.

Now, that's journalism.

You got the two great athletic writers here and reporters, but don't forget that Mark and I once snuck onto the Superdome field after Super Bowl 47.

Who could forget?

All right.

Is it time to close the vault?

Any other thoughts about the Super Bowl?

The

last thing I will share is that I know we've mentioned it, but to be clear, we are going to be in New Orleans for Super Bowl week, Monday to Friday, and we're going to be staying at the, you know, we've deemed it the dog house.

Underdog got this big old mansion in the French quarter that we're going to be not only staying in the house, which is kind of interesting because I get to see what Mark looks like when he goes to the bathroom first thing in the morning.

We also are going to be doing the show from the house.

And we even got, we got Zumwalt coming along.

We got Zumwalt a bungalow here.

And we're going to, Jordan's going to be joining us for a show.

If Money Mike were in town, he absolutely would.

And you'll be in our thoughts, Mike.

And maybe we can have Mike involved in some way for next Thursday's show.

Well, we need the Olsen parlay still.

We have to have that for the Super Bowl.

We need the three-legged parliament.

Greg Olson should be in the booth, let me just add.

Let's work something out.

Let's take it offline.

We need the Money Mike three-legged parlay.

and game prediction and all that stuff.

So Mike will be involved in some capacity next week.

But we'll be in New Orleans for for three shows in addition to the two live shows at Sports Drinks.

So we'll be busy.

Super Bowl 59, time to close up the vault.

Don't say it.

Don't say it.

Pretty good.

That's a vault.

Pretty good.

An ornate vault.

I kind of wanted the last sound, Justin, to be like the spinning of the big Vegas vault.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

He's telling you he's not thrilled with what you produced there.

Well, we were working with limited time this morning.

Always on.

If you go to YouTube and search vault sound familiarity,

this is what comes out.

Sound familiar?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I can't use that.

That's IP that we can't tread upon because we've already taken it and used it elsewhere all right

let's get into it so the theme obviously we don't say the thing that everybody wants to say this time of year but what we did was kept it open open-ended and this is going to be uh each each of the four of us

um me mark jordan and mike are going to introduce a topic that is completely unrelated uh to the big game or anything connected to it right so is that allowed by the way can i say the big game Yes.

Do we set any other more ground rules?

Is it just those two words?

You know what I mean?

I did build a rather elaborate alarm alert drop, and I'd love to actually be able to hit it.

So like the wider parameters for things that you can't say, I would be in favor of, but it's your show.

Okay.

I love the drop, so I would just take the fall if you needed it.

Justin's trying to goad us.

Justin wants mistakes to occur for the show element.

I get that.

Yes.

I think we try to avoid big game two because that's too easy we're we're still talking about this other thing when we're alluding to it as the big game it's too close yeah 20 plus episodes in money mike that you've been involved with heed the call and the the speed in which justin's titans helmet spins still alarming right and off-putting and uncomfortable right I don't mind it.

I don't mind it.

I like the idea of like we got some, I like the insertion of fandom into the discussion, you know.

It brings a different element when you're coming from the media side, like me, where I'm just straight down the middle

or rooting for just individual people I know.

But like, yeah, let's bring some fandom into us.

That's like the classic beat reporter.

Like, hey, do you still love the game?

Listen, I don't root for teams.

That's just laundry.

I root for stories.

And just people I like.

Way too accurate.

Or from a degenerate where you got your money.

Right.

Yeah.

Or just, yeah, people I know.

Like,

I talked to Clint Hurt a little bit before the NFC Championship game.

I was like, yo, man, happy for you.

Go out there, do your thing.

Was very happy for Bobby as well playing in that game.

Obviously, only one of them could win.

But, you know, stuff like that, I root for guys like that.

But not to dig a little further in, but I'm not referring to the fact that there is a Titans helmet in the background or that Justin is open and is fandom.

I'm just talking about the alarming rate in which the rotation, it just, it keeps coming back over and over.

And that is is what I have an issue with.

Relentless.

I like it too.

I like that as well.

Just has got my support today.

One thing we should note for the record of the show is that Mike refuses in the best way to be dragged into your shenanigans, Dan.

No, he doesn't.

So, this is the best.

It's that no shenanigans for Mike.

Shedanigans, that's nice.

But also, if you know me, I'm just going to continue until you get to this will come up.

He's going to be like a dog with a bone on this.

But I love it.

He just, Mike, you just float above it, and it's just wonderful.

Why has he got to be above it?

Is that the way you look at it, Jordan?

Yeah, that is the way I look at it, Dan.

I'll get Mike.

I'm going to keep working on him.

Don't forget that I'm an asshole.

All right, let's get into it.

We all have topics.

I'll get us going.

All right, because I know we talked a lot about it on

the

Tuesday show with Connor Orr as we went through a lot of the press conferences.

And by the way, speaking of press conferences, coming up, and this is why you got to be on Patreon, patreon.com/slash heed the call,

Connor Orr will be holding a live press conference to address the news,

obviously the disturbing report involving his 2016 Chrysler town and country,

perhaps being a dangerous vehicle to be

identifying and using as your family car.

So he's going to hold a press press conference and Mark and I are going to serve as media members for it.

And so you do not want to miss that and you need to be on Patreon to have access to it Friday morning.

I think some tough questions need to be asked, some trenchant queries of Connor because he seems to be wavering in what his next move is with this dangerous time bomb of a vehicle.

Yes.

All right, here we go.

Anyway, we talked a lot about the new coaches on Tuesday.

I wanted to give my official, and this is what makes it important is that it's official, the official juice rankings for each of the new head coaching hires.

It's a scale 0.0

out of 10.0.

And I'm going to move through it fairly quickly.

I don't want us to get bogged down by each position, but I want to go through them all.

And I'm going to should I go, what do you think, Jordan?

Should I go from the lowest juice to the highest juice or the highest juice to the the lowest juice?

Well, I think we all know who the highest is for you.

So definitely start with the bottom and kind of where the shedanigan zone is and then move up.

This is going to be, see, this is going to be a slam dunk like 360 windmill on Rodrigue because she tries to put me in the box.

You're wrong.

We'll get to it.

We'll start with the lowest, though.

Okay.

And I listen, this isn't stunning, but the Brian Schottenheimer higher in Dallas.

I'm going to go

Shoddy.

I'm going to go, all right.

I'm going to go 3.2 on the juice scale for Shoddy.

Just because one thing, Mike, that really bothers me about this hire is they make a decision.

It just doesn't pass the logic smell test.

They make a decision that it's time to move on from the McCarthy era after five years.

And then you just promote his top offensive assistant.

And if you watched the Cowboys games last year, like the functionality of the offense

was not at a high level even before CD got banged up and Dak went out for the year.

So from a Juice perspective, and I'm not saying it's definitely going to fail, but from a Juice perspective, 3.2, I can't go higher than that.

I actually, I feel.

I was just telling one of my Cowboys friends, my friend who was a Cowboys fan this, I feel like I'm in a weird spot with the Shoddy thing.

I'm actually like one of the few people who thinks it'll work out.

Cause like the last time I covered Shoddy, which is 2020 when he was the coordinator of the seahawks he was great the offense was great uh and he was caught in some like power dynamics with like the let russ cook stuff and russ and pete and there's all this beef uh but like he i thought was uh going to be a good uh head coach i actually wrote a story about it i think at the time we were asking russell about it like hey you think shoddy will make head coach like it was a thing the idea of shoddy being a thing i'm I still have that in my brain because I was there for it.

And then obviously he got fired for philosophical differences between he and Pete.

So that, but I never thought that was like his fault.

So I actually think he's going to be okay.

I think he's a, he really knows ball, smart dude.

He's leader guy.

He may not come off as that, but he is leader guy.

I think he's already getting the light, the right blueprint for the best setup in the NFL low-key is like offensive play caller head coach with failed head coach as your DC.

That feels like that's like going to be like the cheat code to get like continuity on your staff because that guy's already failed as DC and no one can poach you.

So excuse me, he's failed as a head coach and no one can poach you as the offensive guy.

You get those two together, you'll rock.

You know, like, I think the reverse would be like,

it could be to his advantage to have this low juice rating of 3.2 that you gave because people are expecting nothing of him.

And I can think of like when Mike Holmgren went to the Browns or like, this is ancient, but Mike Ditka went to the Saints and the juice rating there was through the through the ceiling and they both floundered tremendously.

So it's like, I kind of like being under the radar as a first-time coach.

He's not under the radar because it's the Cowboys.

That's obviously true.

But like, low expectations around the guy.

No one knows what to expect.

And they think he's going to be out of there in a year or two.

Never know.

I think you could see.

Yeah, go ahead, Jordan.

Oh, I just, I think you could see who we are, already see who he is as a strategist because he let Jerry Jones take the sound bite heat.

You know, it's, it's interesting.

That is the way to play it.

I don't think he had a choice, by the way.

No, no, that's his name.

That is that is the way to play it.

But he kind of came off as sort of just like

very

just a quieter personality.

Anyone would when sitting next to Jerry Jones.

But I think he played it really correctly in that he didn't try to say anything that would break through all of the things that Jerry Jones was saying for, what, 73 minutes

during that press conference.

And instead, I think he's going to be one of those guys that kind of just plots quietly.

And then you're going to see some of that unfold.

I thought that was the right way to play it because we're going to be talking about some of these other guys who either won their press conference or are in the news for things that don't really matter as it pertains to what they actually plan to do with their team moving forward.

Yes.

And just to be clear.

You didn't give me that time, Justin.

I kept my train of thought.

Just to be clear, not saying I think Shoddy will fail, just that the juice ain't too high.

Up next, I have Liam Cohen, Jacksonville Jaguars, and I have him at a 6.7 out of 10 on my scale.

Juice.

And that obviously got a lot of the buzz.

But again, we're not against genial gingers here on Heed the Call, so we're not going to dock him points for that.

And I'm not going to dock him points for how he got to Jacksonville, which seemed a little shy based on all the reporting out there.

But you know what?

Liam didn't want to miss his window and end up like Brian Schottenheimer waiting 20 years for his chance

it does still I guess what hurts me in terms of juice and excitement for the team is it is like a I'm doing a rewatch of the Sopranos with my wife right now when Carmella tries to build the spec house but then she uses the wrong wood and then it turns into like this unsellable eyesore and it becomes like this testament in the middle of the woods to just her personal failure and how she needs Tony to be successful and underlines all the things that she she struggles with on the show.

So anyway, to me, that's what limits the juice.

The hire makes sense, and I give Liam a pass for how he exited Tampa.

But Jags fans, I

feel like Jordan still right to have concerns, and so

just a little bit of just

pause.

Yeah, I really like the way that Liam's Buccaneers offense worked out this year.

I like their scheme.

I talked to you about it a lot as like a pet team with Mark here on this show.

The run game with Bucky Irving, and then he also had, I think, some of the luxury of having really good players at certain key positions, including Bucky emerging at running back, having those receivers at least for part of the year.

Baker Mayfield had one of his best seasons in part, his collaboration with Liam Cohen.

That offensive line is just a group of badasses as well.

And you have somebody in Todd Bowles who's taking your mind completely away from anything you need to think about for the defense.

And also, it's a well-run organization from a front office structure, which now Liam Cohen will have his hands in every single part of that infrastructure because of the way that Balky exited and was completely, even though he doth protest too much at his press conference, was completely connected to his hire and perhaps contingent upon that.

So I'm interested in this.

fit and this system.

I think it's a friendly market to try and fail maybe as a first time head coach and figure out what you are good at, what you're not good at, what you need more delegation for.

But I am interested in this because he has a quarterback, he has a couple of really good skill players.

You got Brian Thomas Jr.,

and that's a great player to have.

But there's a lot of areas to figure out on that team that he didn't necessarily inherit in Tampa Bay.

And in terms of like his earnestness and his personality, like that's just who Liam is.

Like, he's just a good vibes guy, and he is a smart guy.

Now, I am going to keep a close eye on this because I do think that we saw firsthand in Houston that there's a Bobby Sloick syndrome as well, where you have a piece of this offense that you've deployed successfully, and then you don't have the second, third, or fourth versions of that offense.

And so, after this year, you know, with Trevor Lawrence, and I've always wanted to see him in this type of system, and that's going to be great.

But do you have the second version, the third version, the fourth version of this offense?

You haven't actually been in these playbooks for multiple years where other coaches who are part of this coaching tree have evolved this forward.

So I'm curious to see what that looks like.

Well said.

Next, I want to tee Mike up on this one.

I got Pete Carroll to the Raiders.

I'm going to put it at,

I struggled with this one because it's a little bit of an unusual hire, let's face it, and how these things go.

6.9, Pete Carroll.

Listen, sensible hire to me.

Carroll is an adult in a room.

Really, he's the senior senior citizen in the room, and the Raiders can use that after Gruden got his head chopped off.

Their words, not mine.

And then you have the 9-11, like McDaniels era, Josh McDaniels era, then the unserious Antonio Pierce experiment.

Carol will not be a disaster.

And I think, as we talked about Tuesday, he could be a useful bridge to the organization.

But like, I just, I can't get away from Mike.

The only thing that would temper the

juice here is like looking at, we're going to get to to the bears in a little bit the idea of this like hot shot young play caller and you have a former number one overall pick and some other pieces and you send him to work in this case you have an older coach and no clear path to a quarterback answer right now and i just wonder for a team especially for a team that has not won a division title or even you know a playoff game in 22 years

like i know it sensible hire i get it but how excited am i right now as a raiders fan i'm I'm not sure.

There's a ton of juice right now.

Where do you come down?

Obviously, you know Carol way better than any of us.

Yeah, I think Pete, like the way I view head coach, like whether you're going to be good or not, is are you leader guy?

Because and leader guy is hard to assess.

You know, everyone kind of knows scheme to a high level for the for the most part.

Leader guy is really tested when things start to go wrong.

And so I've, I saw Pete handle a lot of stuff that went wrong and went awry that never really got out or ended up not being a big deal.

You know,

guys punching each other before the biggest game of their lives.

You know, in 2013, they go out and win by 35 in that game.

You know, so there was just so much stuff like his running back not talking to him, everyone hating his quarterback, all of the badass personalities that he had on defense, and then all the stuff that went wrong towards the end.

And their floor was still high.

They had all this turmoil, and they were still a higher floor team than half the league.

You know, he was basically the West Coast Mike Tomlin in that sense.

Mike also, who does a good job of handling chaos.

Mike Tomlin does.

So I think that is where

you got to be that in any situation, but I feel there's certain franchises where

you really got to be prepared for just anything.

I was talking to Teshawn Reed, covers the Raiders for the Athletic, does good work.

Like all the things that he's had to deal with since he's been the Raiders beat writer, since I think it's like 2021, there was like, yeah, it was Gruden, there's Henry Ruggs, there's that other guy who was one of their cornerbacks who was like threatened to kill someone via Instagram DM.

He had all those guns in his

closet.

Arnett.

Yes, Arnett.

Yeah, Arnett.

Chandler Jones, just randomly.

Yeah, just naked and stuff, spazzing out on like Instagram Live.

Like this wasn't a controversy, but then like they had Carl Nassip on their team, which ended up being like a footnote.

What would be a national story on any other team?

They just had so much stuff.

And when you're the Raiders coach or any coach, you have to be able to just know how to handle all that and put a product on the field.

And that's where I think Pete is going to have a a high floor there.

He's going to be leader guy.

And so I have less concerns about him, age aside, than half these coaches that got hired because he's proven.

He's proven to be able to just handle one shit, hits the fan.

Like 6.9 is fair.

I'd go higher because I think it's the cleanest move the Raiders have made this century.

I think it's going to work.

That team desperately needs structure, organization.

The Brady factor matters.

I think we see already that that matters to them.

And so I think the Carroll thing is going to, it's going to be a success.

He's kind of pretty foolproof and he's going to improve the team.

So Raiders fans who have waited for this for so long, they're kind of like the Cowboys.

Like, it's a huge deal.

And so I'd go higher on this one.

Okay.

Up next,

Mike Vrabel, Patriots.

All right.

I am going to go.

Oops.

7.0 on Vrabel.

There's a little bit of a Trent McNeely

energy to this hire.

Anybody seen the film Can't Hardly Wait?

Coming of Age high school film, late 90s.

McNeely, well, play the clip, Justin.

Trent McNeely.

Trent McNeely.

No way, man.

Trent McNeely.

Trip McNeely.

Jeez.

You were a sexual icon.

Anyway, McNeely was the...

Sexual icon's great.

McNeely was the former jock slash prom king archetype turned townie who still shows up at the high school parties and is leaning on the glory days.

That's my only criticism of the hire, Jordan, that it is like a crank back the clock and let's remember how cool things used to be when Vrabel and all the other guys are here.

Only you don't have Bill and you don't have Tom, and as Justin will attest, it's not like that the Titans era produced any Lombardies or a lot of success in the final years of it when he didn't have the right pieces around him anymore.

Justin's holding up a finger, so I will get to you, Justin.

But, Jordan, that's my only, I like the hire.

It's a smart hire.

As I said, I would have been cool if the Jets went with Rabel 2 because he seems like just a steady guy to put in.

But there is that one little

for an organization that seemed intent on moving away from the Belichick area that they came back.

Did you have something to say, Justin?

I'll get to Justin.

I'll get to Justin.

I just want to hear Jordan first.

I just thought it's

good because I think it's actually he's done a pretty self-aware job of

I think bringing some people who he knows and trusts in but also making up for the fact that he did that so it's like you know he hires he goes out and hires Josh McDaniels who you hear mixed things about him as someone who in terms of to work with on a coaching staff.

And certainly he had no love lost in a lot of the players that he's coached and certainly has found himself in some situations and orchestrated some situations that are less than ideal.

But he also hired, went out and hired people like Thomas Brown and John Stryker, who are two, in my opinion, two really good hires who kind of make up for the fact that now you have Josh McDaniels on your staff, not just from a

communication standpoint, but also from a

culture building standpoint.

And so I think that that does benefit Mike Vrable.

I think he went about this process in a more self-aware way than previous Patriots coaches have.

So I do think that

this is going to be an interesting staff to watch.

And they obviously, it all, I think you, when you pair even Josh McDaniels, who is tough, you know, to work with, you hear this, but you pair him with a young, talented quarterback.

And then you also have people who are really good culture builders and teachers and communicators at the assistant levels as well.

I do think that that's a recipe for potential success.

Gravy, what do you got on this?

My comments about Vrabel and the Titans, your thoughts?

Well, I can share them.

I wasn't actually.

I know what Gravy was doing.

I think he thought you came close to a rule break, Dan.

He said Lombardies.

Yeah, you were.

And I was like, watch it.

Interesting.

We never set the rules in terms of what the words were, which will have to be a good idea.

I think that falls outside the zone of penalty.

Yeah.

I would blind luck, though.

Blind luck.

It's a coach's name.

So, yes.

All right.

Up next, I do have not first, as Jordan wrongly assumed.

It is Aaron Glenn of the New York Jets.

Does come in second, though.

The silver is nice.

I got it a 7.2.

I've already shared my thoughts.

Brings back some pride to the Jets.

A homegrown dude.

He gets it all.

Coming from the Detroit model, which is what, frankly, the Jets hope and dream of assuming themselves.

Concern here, Mike, would be

the play caller so important and the Rodgers question hangs on over everything.

I'm just curious.

Here's one thing we haven't talked about.

I don't know.

We don't know how serious they are about Rodgers actually coming back or not.

And we know the one thing they definitely aren't going to do, because Glenn made it very clear in his press conference is it's not Aaron's show anymore.

He's just, he would just be a guy on the team.

But are you

kind of going overboard or over corrective steering if you end up hiring a play, if you're serious about potentially keeping Rodgers, hiring a play caller without talking to Rodgers and connecting those two pieces on any level?

Or is that not even a question?

Do you think they've already moved on, so it doesn't matter anyway?

And that hiring an OC is independent of who the quarterback was the last two years?

I think that the quarterback is still the most important player on the team, but in this particular case, you got to treat Aaron like one of 53 dudes.

You got to stop treating it like

he's got an office next to y'all, which was Denver's problem when they traded all that for us.

Oh, you get an office on the second floor.

Like, oh, you're one of us.

It's like, no, you are one of 53.

You are an important one, but you are one of 53.

So, no, we're not consulting you on nothing.

I'm not hiring any of your boys or trading for none of your guys unless I independently think that will make the team better.

Like, so I think once you do that and sit down, if you're Aaron Glenn, I think it's a no-brainer.

You just move on.

But he seems like a guy who's going to be very comfortable doing that.

He also comes across as leader guy.

Very similar to how when Sean Payton got to Denver, he did it a little too strong.

Like he just insulted Russell, I think, on and off the record, which is, that's a little too far.

You don't want to do that.

But he just made it very clear, like, you know, a dude from the pirate movie, like, I am the captain now.

I'm the captain now.

Type of thing.

Oh, that dude.

Yeah, yeah.

I love that.

Yeah, yeah.

Captain, Captain Phillips.

I am the captain now.

Captain Phillips was the Phillips.

Yeah.

You have to do that, I think, in New York.

And you kind of got to do it like Aaron did with the media, too.

Like, yo, I know how y'all get down, and I'm not.

I think he told somebody, I think it was the ESPN guy, he's like, You're not about to get me, you know, when they were trying to bait him into giving an answer about a quarterback commitment one way or the other.

I think that's how you got to do it in that particular situation.

Like, come in and very clearly, you know, punch your roommate in the face, prison type of energy.

Like, no, I'm here.

I am,

yeah, yeah, establish dominance, establish who's the adult in the room.

I am the voice, blah, blah, blah.

Like, so I actually feel good about it because Aaron seems equipped to do that because he's not just like some hot shot schematics guy.

Because I think that's that the Jets don't need that.

And aesthetically, you can't have Aaron versus Aaron because even in the in our discussion, it's like we're using the first name and it's like, wait, which one are we talking about here?

So it's like, you got, I think Aaron, the coach, if I'm in one world, I would remove Aaron the quarterback.

ASAP, I get that creates a big hole, but then like you create dominance, you wipe this part of the Jets away and you start anew and you stick around for a long time and you you find a new quarterback.

That's what I do.

I don't build a team around Arizona.

We're the freaking New York Jets.

I've thought about it more.

It's like, I think they, more than any team in the league, need an absolute

flopping session.

No, they need like a psychological enema.

This town needs an enema.

All right, here we go.

Last one, Ben Johnson.

Here we go.

Detroit.

I mean, former Detroit OC, now Chicago Bears head coach.

I give it a,

I'm a tough grader.

7.6.

It's It's the best one.

Got some of that, Mark.

I think me, it was just, he's got some of that

intense introvert energy,

some of that Lee Harvey Oswald Riz

Sest Dog

from his opening press conference, but that's fine.

It's okay to be nervous.

I do want to just, can you show him when he walked into Hallis Hall?

This is a clip that we didn't get to last week.

You could pause it there.

I just want to, the only thing I really want to point out there is that is like the default young coach guy look these days.

It's the tight Dockers, really like fitted Dockers pants showing off a Svelte figure, the clean Oxford up top, and then the white sneakers or whatever.

That is kind of the

uniform, I feel like, these days.

It's a clean look.

I can't negotiate.

The more you hear about Ben Johnson, I can use it.

He needs a chastity class, but otherwise very.

Yes, he could use that, but we all could.

There is an intensity to him, and that you hear that he's intense with his players, that there is

maybe like when you watch him here, it looks sort of like a dad walking around like an autumnal town or something, but that's not what he's doing.

He's literally in front of his wife and children as he's giving the speech, yeah.

Well, yeah, exactly.

I think this is I would have gone Aaron Glenn number one.

I know why you couldn't probably.

Because of Jordan, yeah.

But yeah, because of Jordan, but I think Ben Johnson,

he's probably the one that's the most exciting new face.

And

I guess the question for me is, as head coach, when you're pulled out of your lab,

can you come up with an offense that's as creative and eye-pleasing as what happened over the last two seasons in Detroit?

And

you've got to make the quarterback work.

Like there's a lot of pressure.

I think there's more pressure on Ben Johnson than a bunch of these other guys to make it work right away.

Because I think last year, last offseason, people were saying the Bears are a sneaky playoff team or not even sneaky.

And we've got all these pieces, and it didn't work.

And so, can you make it all work?

It's a big, it's a big tall order.

You're also inside your own division that you were in before.

Something about that always kind of freaks me out a little bit.

Um, that you've got to go play the Detroits, but you do know that division better.

I mean, who is Ben Johnson?

Like, I guess he's one of the biggest question marks of this list.

Who is he?

First of all, two things to say on this: one, never underestimate the command and gravitas and power a good hat can provide you.

Yeah, also, feel a kinship with Ben Johnson as a fellow hatfisher.

But I would say you can see who he is because he is one of these modern play callers who I like to refer to as a heart on his sleeve play caller, which means you see his personality and you see the way that he reaches and connects with people by the way that he calls games.

And he's got big F you energy.

And I think his players are really going to love that.

Like he's going to find what works against you no matter what it is, run, pass, trick play, whatever.

And he's he's going to call the thing that psychologically messes with you and depletes you on the other side the most.

He's done this his entire time in Detroit.

And I think that players really resonate with that and they buy into that.

He might not be the overtly like Dan Campbell-y kind of like, you know, automatically just by shaking his hand, you're like, okay, I'm bought in on leader of men, whatever that even means.

But like this guy, the way that he operates, the way that he shows his work, former math guy, the way that he shows his work on the page and on his call sheet.

To me, players will see that because they see everything in those in those locker rooms and they see everything in those buildings.

And I think they will really resonate with that.

That's why, among other things, in terms of my belief in Ben Johnson, that's one of the things that I really, I'm, I'm sort of on the detective trail on this about

is how he shows who he is through that, that body of work, how he creates and how he calls games.

Very good.

Well,

my turn took about 31 minutes longer than I was expecting.

Now let's take a break.

Yeah, let's take a break and then everybody else will get about two minutes each for this.

Stay right there.

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All right, we are back.

We're back, Mike.

Yeah, so while we were going there, I hadn't heard of this movie, Can't Hardly Wait.

So I was just reading the plot here.

Fascinating movie that I will try and go watch at some point.

There's a lot that goes on, but something that stuck out, this is just from the Wikipedia synthesis of the film, is apparently two nerds that are antisocial get trapped in a bathroom and just was like, hey, we're here, so let's have sex.

Yeah, they f.

Yeah, this is a high school movie, right?

It's the high school graduation party.

Not to say people don't have sex in high school, but

just like setting up.

Yeah, it was very, very interesting.

That is, yeah, one of the that that's a uh

the character, one is like the bookish girl, and then the

white boy having an identity crisis, uh, and trying to be like a hip-hop dude.

Like, they, they're total opposites attract, and then they have a moment.

And it's one of the many incredible incendiary plot lines, Jordan, in the Jennifer Love Hewitt vehicle.

Can't hardly wait.

Sounds like someone could have used a chastity clasp, you know?

I'd argue she's not that bookish.

Right?

You're right, Mark.

All right, Mike, why don't you share your topic that has nothing to do with the thing that's happening a week from Sunday?

Which is what?

It is a football game.

Yeah.

An important one.

A championship one, even.

Yeah, a one with expensive tickets.

Yeah, very, very unfortunate how expensive it is to go.

Very corporate event.

Anyway, sure is.

my topic uh it's apparently the security is not great either when they have it in new orleans they're just letting anybody run onto the field anybody anybody

a couple of ham and eggers just roaming around talking to terrell suggests yeah letting the lights just go out while Beyonce's performing just is not a great operation down there big easy big easy my topic My topic is supporting the quarterback.

I'm glad you asked me about Pete Carroll because when I was listening to his Raiders intro, it made me come back to this.

Like Pete, he views the quarterback position as like super hard, like hard as shit, like the hardest position there is.

And so he's looking for, he's looking for a guy who can play it well, obviously.

He's got a great track record with that.

But the way he views it is, I think, the way that more of us, media, fans,

coaches, whoever should view like how support of the quarterback should look.

Like his view is that, all right, this job is hard as hell.

So my job is to do everything everything possible to make sure your job is easy like it's the easiest thing that you do is your job that's my job to make that happen for you you know and i feel like the way we view support with the quarterbacks has become like a broken discourse a little bit and i think like the way we viewed we i'm just saying generally uh like Caleb and Jaden Daniels, for instance, like Caleb was framed as like, he's going to this great quote-unquote situation.

It's like how we frame what support and what the situation is good based on is just, I think, really, really off.

Like if I had to rank it, if I had to do my own power rankings like Dan just did with quarterbacks or excuse me, with the head coaches, I feel like I would put play caller and O-line far ahead of like your receivers and your skill players, you know, and I feel like that's how we got to the point of the discourse where it's like, Caleb's walking into the best situation a rookie's ever had because he had Rome, he had Keenan, you know,

forget who else, I'm missing a receiver over there.

Oh, DJ Moore.

So it's like, oh, look at these weapons he has.

And it's like, nah, man, your play caller is your weapon, your first weapon.

Your O-line is your second weapon.

And I think that that's how I remember Tom Brady recently just like kind of bitching about young quarterbacks getting thrown in early and just how we're doing them a disservice, all this stuff, which we are.

But I think the reason that these guys are coming in and flopping kind of quick is because of the lack of support, because how we view it is wrong.

It's like, I need a receiver to help this guy.

It's like, no, you probably need a better skiing tailor to what he can do You probably need better alignment.

You probably need a better run game You probably need a better defense You probably need to make sure your special teams is nails like it's literally everything other than who he throws the ball to sometimes that can be the the primary Means of support so I think that when we talk about it through the lens of skill players.

That's how we get to like

I think tangentially related to that is like the idea that the term game manager is an insult.

Because no, that's actually like if you can manage a game,

great.

That's great.

You'll probably get to where you want to be as an organization if your guy can manage a game because that takes many forms.

It's not just check down Charlie or whatever.

It's just doing whatever we need to win.

I think how Jalen Hurts is being framed is like Dan's favorite coach, Nick Siriani, is he's articulating the point poorly, but I understand because he's just like, all he does is win.

He's a winner.

I don't understand why anyone hates Jalen because he's a winner.

Like, Nick, that's stupid.

You very, you clearly understand why people have criticisms of Jalen.

The games are on television, we can see, you know, but like, Jalen is every single one, yeah, they're all on television, you know.

Like, I don't, Siriani's just being disingenuous, but the point is that he and other people make with Jalen is like, he does whatever it requires that day for us to win.

You know, he has his drawbacks, but like, I think game manager is not derogatory.

I think, like, that's actually what we should be looking for when we're looking at a young quarterback or in free agency or a guy who wants to be able to win multiple playoff games.

games, like I think that how we view support of quarterbacks really needs to be overhauled.

And then my last thing on this is like support of a quarterback is also very mental.

Very, very mental.

And that comes back to Pete, too.

Like his, his,

one of his superpowers, I think, is being able to instill confidence in others.

And if your quarterback is not confident, he don't think you believe in him, whether game manager or not, he will go out there and shit the bed.

Like more often than not.

And I feel like there's plenty of examples of that in the league.

But to use a non-Pete one, I feel like the obvious is Tua.

Like, he just did not believe that Brian Flores thought he was worth a damn.

And Brian didn't.

He got a coach who did, thought he was worth a damn, instilled that confidence in him, and then he started balling, you know.

So

as I looked around the league and thinking of non-important game in New Orleans topics like that, like how we view support of a quarterback and what that even means has really been on my mind lately.

And like, look what happened to Caleb Williams.

Like, you've got a defensive coach, and I think

there's a reason to be concerned about the infrastructure of a defensive-minded head coach, where if your offensive coordinator succeeds, banging head coaching somewhere else, and that's transition.

But if you're Caleb Willems, like your offensive coordinator had, there was problems with the players, to your point about play callers, like they wanted him to coach them harder.

And you don't hear that too often overtly out in the press.

And then he scapegoated, I mean, fairly and fired.

And then the head coach is fired.

And then you look around the league at some of these quarterbacks that were comeback players this year, like a Baker and a Sam Darnold.

And it's their early careers were five offensive coordinators, three head coaches, six different quarterback coaches.

Like your support staff is changing every day.

And we all know that if your bosses or your super boss changes and everyone wants to come in and alter everything, like you feel floating as an employee.

And young quarterbacks need the opposite.

To your point, I think that's a good topic.

I just wanted to say one of Pete Carroll's contemporaries is Jim Harbaugh.

And if you follow

the quotes that Jim Harbaugh gives about his quarterback, you know, from Justin Herbert way back to Alex Smith when he started in San Francisco, he will talk that guy up every second, every chance he gets to the media that this guy is a special one-of-one type talent.

And I think it's the same thing, right, Mike, where it's like he's trying to instill that belief and even using the media as well, in addition to anything that he's saying or installing behind the scenes for the quarterback.

And listen to what his play caller, Greg Roman, said when he got there.

It's like, all right, maybe it was, was, who said the Imagine Herbert with a run game thing?

Was that, I think that was Greg Roman when he got hired.

But it's the idea.

It's like, I don't need to just have you just throw it all over the yard all the time.

Sometimes we may need to do that.

But like, whoever said, I think it was Roman.

It makes sense.

It was Greg Roman.

Yes, he did say that.

Yeah, it's like the idea of like, imagine if we supported you better.

That's essentially what he was saying.

Imagine if we supported you better.

And then I was at the owners' meetings last year where Jim Harbaugh said the thing about how O-linemen are basically weapons.

Actually, you can see like my right arm or something in the clip.

Like, I remember him talking about that, and I was like, yo, yes, this is it.

Cause at that time, they were having a kind of the Sewell Chase debate.

I think it was like Joe Alt, Malik Neighbors was kind of the

choice there.

And he was like, Yeah, we're taking, he basically said, We're taking an O-lineman because those guys are weapons.

Like, and how Jim, yeah, I'm glad you brought him up, Dan.

He's a really good example, too.

He, he talks about Herbert like he's his favorite son, like he'll like worship the ground he walks on because he realizes we have to support this guy

because he can eventually he's going to throw for 400 and sometimes he might need to throw for a buck 20 on the road in the cold weather or whatever.

I need him to be confident in doing both of those and however that looks around him, run game, O-line, whatever.

Like, I think the support is like so important.

Uh, and how your head coach views that will determine a lot of like your success as a franchise.

It's not just can you get a guy who can make all these throws, that's great, but like, can you make the game as easy as possible?

And that's why I think I think of Pete when I look at the Raiders, like when they did win that game 11 years ago or whatever, they won by 35 and they scored literally on every phase.

They scored on defense, offense, special teams, and had a safety.

You know, they won as a team, not just like the quarterback did all the work.

That was mark another game we were at where that safety where the ball gets, I think, fired over Peyton Manning's head.

You knew the game was over at that very moment.

One of the more lopsided.

And we were in that end zone seconds into that.

um we were not allowed onto the field on that contest for to everyone's benefit we were not we we did not attempt it all right mark you're up

that was cheating that whole conversation was cheating mark you're up okay

um so like when i first moved to la

right

i i didn't know anyone i had no friends i had like a job downtown but i lived in like culver city and i used to go to this like starbucks all the time and just hang out and you know it's like i would almost talk to anyone that would talk to me it's like it was that was that kind of phase in life.

But I met this young guy.

He was from some part of India or something.

And he had just moved to LA for a job.

And he was telling me, or was trying to get me to come over to his house to have his wife make dinner.

Uh-oh.

And I, well, no, that didn't happen.

But I was just sort of asking him about his life and stuff.

And he basically said that like

he had fallen in love like back in his homeland with someone else, but that his parents had forced him into an arranged marriage.

And I'm not making a commentary about arranged marriage at all, but he sort of said, like, it's been really tough on both of us because neither one of us feel like we're in love.

It's just been forced upon us.

And the more he's talked about it, it's just like, hmm, I'm not sure that's how you'd want to spend your life.

Because I think the NFL has an arranged marriage as well.

And think about it this way.

It is between us, the viewer of football, and Tom Brady.

Because imagine that the traditional-minded parents are Fox, okay?

Fox is the parents that aren't going to bend off their vision of how life works, forcing us, the viewer, to marry Tom Brady as Fox's lead color man when everyone knows we were in love with Greg Olson.

And there's nothing we can do about it.

There's nothing we can do about it.

And I'm not here, like, honestly, to slander Tom Brady because like it's a hard job and I could see him growing, I think, along the way.

And so it's not really about like the wife that you're stuck with or the husband that you're stuck with.

It is the process.

It's how we got here.

This was on my radar big time last year, last offseason was for a lot of us, that the best color commentator was just displaced for a name.

And like, look around at the other, the big five, Troy Aikman, Tony Romo, Kirk Herbstreet, Chris Collinsworth, and Tom Brady.

I mean, as far as we know, they are not going anywhere.

And I think Greg Olson is as good as any one of these guys.

And I think here's the worst part.

He knows it too.

They treated him unfairly.

He's still working for them honorably, but stuck on the lesser games.

And he's not thrilled about it at all.

And I don't blame him.

And I want to play this clip from WCNC in Charlotte, their NBC station.

Their sports director, Nick Carboni, asked Olson.

And what I love about Olson is that he is not some company shill who will not speak.

Listen to what he said.

You know, I'll be honest, it's hard sitting home on the couch watching the games.

And, you know, you're sitting there and you're living and dying with every broadcast.

And you're sitting there and you're dissecting everything that's said and done.

And what would you have said?

And what would you have done?

So, yeah, listen, I've been very honest.

My goal getting into this was to not just call regional one o'clock games and just be happy to be there.

I've called the highest games.

We've called some of the biggest games in NFL history, some of the biggest audiences in NFL history.

To not do it anymore, it's hard.

It's not ideal.

But

listen, wherever it is, whatever network it's on, whatever opportunity is there, my goal is still to just continue to show that I'm as good, if not better, than anybody in this industry.

And I just

need a chair.

I love that.

I appreciate his.

He is just speaking from his heart.

And I get riled up when

there's something unjust about it.

Like, Greg Olson still has a good life.

He's still on TV.

He's handsome.

He's amazing.

Like, he's announcing football.

He's making big money.

But all that is beside the point because the situation lacks integrity.

And I guess it's sports announcing.

There's only so much we can cry about it.

But I think that there is a fire that burns in us when we get passed over for a job, by like a crush, by anything in life.

And I think that, you know, we know that feeling and that there's like a fire that burns within when that happens.

And Olson has it.

And I am waiting for the day that he is put back in a major seat to do what he should be doing.

Because I think Troy is always my dude, but he is my second.

Olson, I think, is maybe as good as Troy is not better.

And I think he's the best guy at this being like, you know, pushed down.

And I don't like it.

It doesn't, it's a bad look for everyone involved.

That's my.

From a different angle, Jordan.

Good job with that one, Mark.

Like, from a different angle, I wonder, A, if giving interviews like that and kind of sub-tweeting Fox during games

is his way of announcing, hey, come get me when when my contract's up, letting everyone know what his ambition is and how good he is.

But yeah, I wonder if this is more like big picture, a Greg Olson type who was obviously always a gifted athlete, like you said, good-looking guy.

Everything's kind of come to him in his life.

He's earned it, of course.

He was the superstar probably of his high school, was a big star at Miami, both as a player and a recording artist, then became like a very successful NFL player, then went to the booth after his playing days were over and immediately found success and praise there.

I don't get the feeling, Jordan, that, and this isn't a put-down, I'm just being real about it, that he's probably ever been passed over in his life, really, in a lot of ways.

And this has probably been a humbling thing for him as well, that to be told that we're favoring someone else over you.

So it probably compounds the frustration for an Olson type.

I might, this is a totally, probably perhaps unfair, like psychological dig for me to do because I think, too, it might come, some of it might come from

just the situations that he's been in in his professional life as a player.

You know, he was kind of buried in Chicago for a while.

Then he got moved to Carolina.

They went on this magical run, right?

Had so much fun doing it, didn't get the win.

And then everything collapsed over the next couple of years after that.

And I remember standing there

fighting, because yes, it almost made me cry, but fighting back my own emotion, watching him grimace and clench through tears

with a broken foot and trying to go back on the field and then talking to me in the locker room after the game about what he was willing to do, whatever the cost, because they actually had a chance at maybe going on a little bit of a journey in that year's postseason.

And then everything, nothing would ever be the same.

And he didn't get to go out on his own terms.

And a lot of people don't.

A lot of athletes don't.

And, but Greg still, all the same, poured so much into everything he's ever done including the community you know the logo that he's wearing on his hat i believe that is for his foundation the hardest yard um where they they raised millions of dollars for absolutely epic medical care for youth in the charlotte medical system because of what happened with him and his wife and one of their sons.

And it's just like he's put so much into everything he's ever done.

He's gone full freaking send on everything.

And this is out of his control.

And I think if I'm going to psychologically dig a little bit, I think that is what is the crazy making part of this, perhaps, for any athlete at the top of their position anywhere, but especially for somebody who, when he approached this broadcasting job, he went full send.

He was not.

handed this.

He did the training.

He was in booths even before he retired training.

Like during bye weeks, he would go in and practice and he put in so much work.

I'm not saying Tom Brady is not putting in the work.

I'm just saying Greg has just a gift for this.

And it must just be this feeling of like, why don't you see me?

You know, like I've done everything I can.

My hand is raised.

Why don't you see me?

And I think that that a lot of us in our careers, I think, could sometimes feel like that.

And I think that I can see that in Greg right now, because I do think he deserves to be calling a certain event next week.

I also love the competition of this too.

I mentioned this to you guys in the group chat.

If I could make one more point, like one thing, one really good thing about professional athletes becoming high-level broadcasters is the competition, right?

And Greg, I think, is crossing into this territory that's unprecedented because there's always been this unwritten, like, but he's treating it like if he were asked on, if he were asked about a defensive player he didn't like, for example, in Carolina, or like asked to dissect weaknesses in somebody else's game for an upcoming opponent that they were preparing for,

he'd be honest.

And he would, And he's being honest here.

And I really like that he's doing that because you're making it very clear.

There is no gray area.

And also, it is a message, Dan, to your point, because it's a multi-year contract that he's on, but those things don't last forever.

And so he is making this statement.

I would not be surprised to see the big leagues like Amazon, Netflix, even start sniffing around him soon after this, and certainly after he sort of does all of these circuits in this offseason to really say, like, if they're not going to take care of me and put me in the big chair i'm going to go find a chair

all right

close it out jordan something that has nothing to do with the other thing

could not be more opposite in fact

this could not be more opposite in fact uh the saints job search like we really haven't talked about this yet and i i want to get you guys's thoughts on this just to quickly update you know the listeners and all of that tuesday mike mccarthy removed himself i'm doing air quotes from the coaching search.

A bunch, I follow a bunch of the beat reporters on the scene down in New Orleans, and some of them were in Mobile this week.

They sort of felt like it was like, I'm going to leave you before I get left situation because I don't know how interested they really were in Mike McCarthy.

But the Saints actually had several people drop out of the process.

Joe Brady was a legitimate candidate for them and was a legitimate dropout of this process, deciding to stay in Buffalo.

The Saints requested Cliff Kingsbury, who just decided, I don't want any part of that or the big job again in general right now.

And then Aaron Glenn had New Orleans scheduled on his radar, but never went, obviously, because the Jets like did not leave him, let him leave the building, like more of a metaphor here because he did physically leave the building.

Aaron Glenn and Joe Brady both had really strong ties to New Orleans from previous stops, and they said, no, thank you.

And so some of this is agents doing agent things, like in the McCarthy case, for example.

But I just think the optics of this search is bad.

And it's not a coveted job because they had no shot at Mike Vrabel or at Ben Johnson.

And they seem very secure with that.

I don't even know that they pursued them very heavily, kind of understanding like this just wasn't going to happen for them.

And it is just not a coveted spot in part because of the quarterback situation that seems to constantly be in question.

And then also

the roster, the age of the roster relative to the unceasing churn of football and its timeline moving forward.

And then also the salary cap situation, still helmed by the same general manager who sometimes people will come out and say, Well, maybe he'll be moved into a different position laterally this year.

And then that always seems to pop up like during the coaching search when they're like, No, it's going to be okay.

Come here, work with Mickey Loomis.

And then it doesn't actually happen.

So it's just a weird situation over there.

And they have so many big questions.

Kellen Moore is the favorite for this job right now, following a certain coaching task that he has still ahead of him.

But that was, you like that.

Very good.

But but it was, um, it is going to be interesting because it's like, you don't get the sense necessarily.

They could spin it however they want.

You never got the sense early in this process that he was their first choice.

And in fact, he was kind of out there in various channels, or agents were out there in various channels saying, like, the cowboys' job was the one he really coveted and really wanted.

And so you don't really get the sense that this is very buttoned up,

much like Mark's shirt right now.

It just doesn't, you just don't get that feeling about this job.

Here's what I would think, Mike, with this is like,

and I'm of two minds because there's only 32 chairs.

And if you get a chance at one, you grab it.

But if I'm Kellen Moore, like what this team, the franchise, where they are right now, it screams, we're heading towards a tank year.

We're heading towards, we're stripping this thing down.

We got to finally get our books right.

We got to get that top.

three pick or maybe the number one pick and get a quarterback in here.

And like, why would you want to go into a reboot when things are this messy?

Now, you can look at like Dan Campbell in Detroit.

That team had a lot of work to do just to get back even, but that's a hard job.

Like, it almost makes me think, and this wouldn't necessarily be fair, but I'm sure he would have been down with it because his personality type, Darren Rizzi, Sky Rizzi, if you would have kept him in the post and just let him grow into the job or just hold the fort until you make your big move in 26, perhaps.

But it makes sense to me why this right now, you don't want to come come near this because it just feels radioactive in terms of your chances of being successful at this moment.

Yeah, I didn't know this would be Jordan's topic, but I just, I guess, out of coincidence, I actually really looked at the Saints books last night just because it does feel like no one wants to take that job.

And oh my God,

it is bad.

Because

I went in thinking they could just do a fire sale, right?

If they needed to, you know, you just, they just extended Kamara.

So maybe not him, but like Cam Jordan, Honey Badger you know this guy they just sell off everything trot a bunch of rookies out there eat it you know

not totally dissimilar from what like the Rams kind of had to do with the Super Bowl like all right we just gotta we just gotta eat this a little bit for a year then I looked even if they did that they save like five million dollars if they got rid of like half the damn team because of the way this the contracts are structured so they got to kick this can down the road again for the most part and then you probably suck in 2026 and then you are maybe good in 2027.

But if I'm the coach, it's like, okay, well, what if I go 11 and 23 in those two years?

We, you know, take an L on Thursday night football or something, because those, you know, how owners are about losing on national television, right?

You lose to the Saints on like Sunday night football.

Am I just going to get fired?

You know, like that's, that's awful.

So yeah, I can see why.

I mean, the roster is like one thing with the job.

It's ownership.

It's, you know, general manager.

It's power structure, blah, blah, it's money.

But damn, the roster still does matter.

And that is easily the worst roster/slash cap money situation in the league.

That's that's really

bad over there.

Yeah, I'm looking at over the cap.

And here, and if you look at the top 10 costs in terms of players, it is a mid-tier quarterback who is not

a magnet to go there.

It is old players.

It is Taysom Hill.

who I like, but he's like your third most expensive player here.

And a bunch of first-round draft picks that haven't really worked out.

Like, I think if you've got a bunch of coaches dropping out of the race, that's agents talking to each other.

That's coaches talking to each other.

That's former Saints coaches talking to people about the organization.

It is ownership.

Like, the number one thing I always remember from Belichick's like autobiography was like, you do not go to a place with bad ownership.

And I think there's ownership questions in New Orleans.

You mentioned the general manager.

The Mickey Loomis thing just feels, the word I'd use just sticky.

It's just like, what are we doing here with this situation?

And you go take this job.

You're already on the hot seat.

It isn't a breath of fresh air.

You've got to figure out the money side of it.

They've got to tear it down to the studs.

And two years into your point, you're probably gone for someone that they like better.

I mean, to have like Mike McCarthy, they didn't want Mike McCarthy from what I read too, that there was some issues there.

But to have all these names not want the New Orleans Saints job after the Sean Payton era, like things are not good.

That's bad.

That's toxic.

And it's a cool city with a great fan base and a passionate fan base.

And if you can succeed there, you are a god.

Like, it's just, it's cool just thinking about the potential.

I think that Mickey Loomis, and this is not reporting, this is just like what I kind of see in their books over the last several years.

It's almost like, you know, those like, um, those not, everyone says, okay, I've got like a tangle of necklaces or a tangle of headphone cords or whatever.

And at some point, I'm just going to throw it away because I can't possibly untangle it.

And I can't remember how all these pieces just came together or whatever.

That's kind of the situation happening here.

But the problem is, is I don't know that anybody wants to take that on as a candidate in the front office perspective.

That's like, that is, yes, there are, those are even harder jobs to get and to, and because those, those guys are, are often longer tenured than the head coaches are.

But they're the tangle and the knots within their financial structure and their roster structure right now, it's almost like, and I don't give ownership a pass here at all, but it's almost like, okay, well, that guy's the only one who remembers how these all got tangled up in the first place.

He's the only one left.

So how the hell are we going to bring someone in here and just get this fixed?

Cause we can't even remember, you know, which knot is which.

And because it's just, it's so messy at this point.

And I think it puts you in this paralyzed situation as an organization, which is a real shame because, again, it is a gloried and storied organization.

And it is.

It's a shame to see.

And I think it's a tough situation too.

Dan, you mentioned the

Lions situation.

I also thought about the Commanders.

It's not as simple there as just getting a quarterback because

in those situations too, there was a collaborative partnership formed between head coach and general manager.

They came in together too, or as close to as possible.

And this partnership

does not exist in its current form in New Orleans.

You're coming in where somebody has already created the mess and you're not making a clean break in that case.

Tough.

But we're going to be in New Orleans next week.

And any Saints fans, understand that we're rooting for your team.

You should coach the Saints.

Yeah.

Sports drink.

Comedy Club.

We'll be there, Mark.

We will.

Talking about things pertaining to Sunday, next Sunday, a week from Sunday, and

all other things.

Maybe, just maybe the new head coach of the Saints will be a conversation point if

one word to Dane that a job they would like to actually accept.

If Kellen doesn't take that job, they're heading for like a what's it?

What's that guy's name from the Texans?

He was the head coach.

He was the Ravens D-line coach forever.

David Coley.

That's what they need.

They need a David Coley to just come in there and tank for a year and then fire a count.

Just a fallen colour.

I never heard Justin more excited at any point in the history of he become a solution.

David Coley did it.

They need their own guy who's willing to just like get a year's worth of head coaching experience and then get kicked out of the door while

he's killed.

Well, yeah, I mean, David got like a five-year deal or something like that.

I think a bunch of the years are guaranteed.

Like, he's been a position coach forever.

So, if you're just looking for a payday, say you're looking for a paycheck, Mark.

You want to lose what we talked about.

This is actually a fantastic way to make a ton of money.

Like,

I'm apathetic about taking a head coach.

Four-year, five-year contract, vanish to like the Virgin Islands.

If you want to make a bunch of money guaranteed, lose all semblance of self and any uh dignity and like your competitive spirit just have it put like that thing that they put over a torch flame like extinguish it immediately

that seems like a good place i mean but like jordan said too you know if you if you do make it work though you're a god yeah and you're a god you just make you have some fun down there don't get blown out and beat the falcons with some regularity

yeah yeah like that's one of the places where they like rivalry still like really is a thing like you go down there and beat the falcons a few times like People love you down there.

You never have to pay for a drink again, even if you do go like 11 and 23.

What is success for the 2025

Saints?

Split with the Falcons, win the home game.

Hopefully it's a Thursday night game.

Probably a good chance of that.

You know, steal a couple here and there.

Win five games and beat the Falcons once.

Yeah, like call in Jeff Saturday.

Your phone is ringing.

You're the guy.

Let's keep Jeff where Jeff is.

Okay.

Mark, how would you beat the Falcons?

I'd be fired by the like two days in the training camp, first of all, but I'd still have signed the contract.

Yeah, guaranteed bread, man.

Take it.

Take it.

Although the opposite of it.

They're like, do you know how to organize a training camp practice?

Not at all.

I don't even know where the horns are.

Well, hey, I mean, Mike McDonald.

You got to know where the horns are.

They hire Mike McDonald.

He's like 37.

He basically also hired a coach to coach him and Leslie Frazier.

So there you go.

You don't know what you're doing?

Hire someone as one of those consultants or whatever.

Yeah.

You know, hire someone to coach the coach to coach.

Who would you hire?

Any NFL person past, you know, probably present tense, right?

They haven't, you know, gone the way of decease.

You could say death, yeah.

Can I pick a person that died?

I'm too tripped up over the thing we're not supposed to say.

Now I'm all, I'm knotted around, much like the St.

Saul cat.

Who would you pick, Mark?

I'll pick a dead person, and it's not, it won't be the one named after a trophy or what it were in reverse.

I'd go Marty Schottenheimer.

I think he can kind of do it all.

He seems modern.

He understands the modern world.

It would be like a reanimated Marty Schottenheimer winning a Super Bowl.

Be kind of terrifying, but really cool.

Activating alarm.

Activating alarm.

Activating alarm.

What is this?

Activating alarm.

It's like 15 different alarm alert sirens all stacked on top of each other.

You said it.

You said it.

What?

You said it's

Marty Schottenheimer winning a

getter dead.

70 plus minutes in.

The moment I was waiting for.

That was for you, Justin.

Thanks.

Totally on purpose.

You didn't even know you did it.

I had no idea.

I was just hung up on the idea of the specter of Schottenheimer on the sideline.

Like, it's like an unsolved mysteries episode.

Well, it kind of works out.

We had to get all the way into corpse reanimation for Dan to slip up.

So we got there.

Good job, by all.

Good job, Justin.

All right.

Great job by all.

We've been doing this Thursday show since August, and thank you so much to Jordan and Mike getting us all the way to the finish line.

We'll be in New Orleans for our preview show next week.

And then I guess

we'll all circle back, Jordan, together as a fivesome couple weeks after the Super Bowl.

We have some business to settle up, including a trophy that needs to be handed out

for certain fearless predictions.

So all that coming up.

Again, get tickets to see us live in New Orleans and join us at the Dog House next week for three shows.

It's going to be a great time.

All right.

Bye, gang.

Heed the call, everybody.

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