Deion to Dallas?? And More Coaching Cycle Rumors with Jordan Schultz

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The Heed the Call Podcast

has expressed interest in the Dallas Cowboys job.

Why?

We're not good enough for you.

What's wrong with us?

Welcome to Heed the Call.

I'm Dan Hansis with The great Mark Sessler, Justin Graver on the ones and twos.

What's up, Sess Dog?

I feel like you would, can I ask you a real question?

A real question, sure.

You get offered three years,

$30 million to be the Cowboys coach.

Do you take the job?

Absolutely not.

It's guaranteed money.

I mean, well,

if I could have the job ceremonial, in a ceremonial fashion, and I wander up and down,

I have to learn like a 400-page playbook and fast.

Well, you could be like a puppet, like Nick Siriani, for instance, and have your coordinators do most of the heavy lifting and then have an owner and GM tell you what to do.

That sort of thing.

That could get you into that type of role.

Yeah, like I'm ceremonial.

I'll do a lot of emotion on the sideline, but it's not the coordinators doing most of the job.

They will be doing all of the job.

You have to put literally no work on my plate.

Your only job, honestly, will be deciding whether to punt or go for it.

That will be your job.

Will you take the job?

Yes, but I think by the end of week one, I'll be under fire by various people.

So

just being real.

Like I'm being under real life.

I do this.

I do this.

Yeah, like the

you could go office space style, too.

Once it gets, like, I imagine the heat will be too much for you after like the second day of training camp.

And then if you just go active into

trying to get fired, again, as long as you don't make it too obvious and they fire you for cause, you collect that 30 million mark and then you are on an infinity amount of cruises on choppy waters in cold temperatures, your preferred destination for relaxation.

That's the way to do it.

I should have thought that because, like, I'll create such a problem for the organization within like a fortnight that Jerry Jones is like, I don't care about the money.

We got to get this guy out of here.

And

all right, good table setter.

Off I go.

Good table setter because you got this Sunday wild card round recap of five games.

We did the show last night

where we recapped, obviously, the Monday night win for the Rams over the Vikings, and we pushed all the

other stuff to the side until now, because the NFL right now is on two tracks this time of year.

You have the eight teams, one trophy, those guys, and then there's 24 other teams, including six other teams that are fully invested in 2025, six teams currently riding the coaching carousel.

So with all that in mind, Let's bring in someone who knows their stuff that can help navigate all the information that's out there and give us a a real picture of where teams are that are looking ahead to 2025.

It's the Fox Sports NFL insider Jordan Schultz.

Welcome to Heat the Call, Jordan.

It's an absolute pleasure.

Thanks for having me, Colin.

Yeah, I'm happy you could join us because we do have

so much to get to, but let's start with the Dallas Cowboys of it all.

You have Mike McCarthy.

By the way, if you have to get that, Jordan, we understand you're an insider.

No,

this is like in 15, 20 minutes we forget that

where do you stand on the other insiders doing live hits holding the phone and almost like a braggy look at me I can

if you know if you notice I don't I'm not really a hold the phone guy I don't right at each his own but my style is is not I don't really I like to have it nearby but I've said this many times like it's not My lifestyle is not sustainable to the insider game, having two young kids.

And it's cost me a fair amount of stories, but it's just not a price I'm willing to pay, which is always to have the phone and to lose time with the kids.

And I'm just, it's just, I've missed stories, a couple pretty big ones.

But as a result, I can live a somewhat normal life day to day because it's not, you know, I can't do that.

It's just, I wish I could.

I'm envious, but I don't have that in me.

He's the noble insider, and that's why he's

on the show.

It's just like,

I just need some, I need some semblance of balance in my life.

And if you're always by the phone, it's not possible.

Hey, listen, as long as you're making time for HTC, Jordan, you're cool as well.

Come in, baby.

The noble insider.

Let's get into it.

The Cowboys did decide to move on from Mike McCarthy.

We learned that yesterday.

Mike McCarthy, very quickly moving on.

He's interviewing for the Bearshead coaching job.

We've heard that reported.

The Saints are also expected to have interest in McCarthy.

The interview set to go down next week, likely.

That Rapsheet, one of the guys that holds his phone all the time.

Let's start with the McCarthy situation.

Is this a situation where Mike McCarthy has enough goodwill across the league where he goes from one head coaching post to another without the gap year?

Oh, I think Mike McCarthy's firmly in play in both Chicago and New Orleans.

You know, it's very rare to have a head coach who's won a Super Bowl, who's had a lot of success like Mike McCarthy, become available.

And also, because of how Dallas played it out, waiting the extra week, they ended up making it, I almost want to say, more appetizing for teams looking at Mike McCarthy, because now all of a sudden, it's like the pretty girl who

was dating someone, then all of a sudden, they broke up, but a couple weeks after they were supposed to, or maybe right before prom, and now all of a sudden you can ask that girl to the dance.

Mike McCarthy is,

I'm not willing to say he's absolutely going to have a head coaching job, but he's firmly in the cycle.

He makes sense in New Orleans as the connection there with Mickey Loomis, and then obviously Chicago.

I just think his DNA as a toughness first guy, he fits Chicago.

He's obviously had success with a young quarterback and Aaron Rodgers.

There's no doubt that he's going to be in the mix, but to actually get a job is a different deal.

We'll see.

Yeah, and I was just like with McCarthy, and opinions vary on where McCarthy ranks when you're stacking up who are the guys that matter truly at head coach, but kind of built to set up to fail this season where they had the three straight 12 win seasons and everybody talked about it going into the season.

The roster got worse.

So even though their record dipped,

I didn't feel like McCarthy was a less effective coach.

And I'm thinking the way this is seeming like it's going that the rest of the NFL didn't isn't holding the Cowboys decline this year against McCarthy.

It seemed like more an organizational failure from Dallas that led to this dip below 500.

Yeah, the roster was not ready to compete for a Super Bowl.

And even before the injury to Dak and before Cooper Rush came on, this team was a sinking ship.

I thought Mike Zimmer's defense really struggled.

I thought, and they actually came together to a degree down the stretch, but I thought they lost something when Dan Quinn left for Washington.

I think in terms of like reputationally, to your point, Mike McCarthy has a very good reputation, but he's also a specific type of coach.

And I think one of the reasons he did well in Dallas with the three straight 12-win seasons and why he lasted the way he did in Dallas was because he was willing to acquiesce to Jerry Jones.

And a lot of guys, a lot of head coaches coming in, especially ones that have actually won a Super Bowl, aren't necessarily going to do that.

But Mike McCarthy was willing to do that.

So what does that mean with a situation potentially like in Chicago?

I think he would potentially work with someone like Kevin Warren, who, with all due respect to Ryan Poles, is really calling the shots and running the show there.

So

you're right, he gets a pass to a degree with the roster, but there's also some really good young, innovative offensive coaches available, whether it's a Ben Johnson or a Liam Cohen or Joe Brady.

Cliff Kingsbury.

There's a lot of guys that are up-and-comers, first or second-timers, that are viewed as the next generation.

So we'll have to see whether or not Mike McCarthy gets that rare opportunity, which is to coach a third team.

And let's be real here.

You know, we're less than a day removed from you breaking.

It's got to be one of these moments for an insider.

You let us know, you let the world know that Cowboys owner Jerry Jones has spoken with Deion Sanders, the Colorado head coach, about this vacancy.

And

you could characterize it, let us know where we're at with that right now.

But even Dion acknowledged that it was interesting to talk to Jerry Jones.

He's still into Colorado, blah, blah, blah.

It's like,

this would be a titanic movement and a moment in not just NFL history, but like really

a person that has had such an interesting life from player to

personality to coach to everything.

It's like, where are we with this?

And how realistic is it?

Where are we in two weeks with this?

Yeah, they're going to have an extensive search.

You know, Deion's always said publicly that he wasn't interested in the NFL.

And he said that the last couple of years.

But I think when Dallas calls, specifically Jerry Jones, the type of relationship that they have and have had over the last three decades, it was way too good to pass up the opportunity to at least get on a call.

They have not actually scheduled or completed an actual formal interview, but because the relationship is so strong, I think Deion felt like this is the Dallas Cowboys, the gravitas of this organization.

And to that point, Jerry Jones recognizing someone that we know loves to make a splash, but also recognizing that Dion has the cachet, has the prestige, and also the basic fundamental understanding of playing in Dallas, what it takes to be a Dallas Cowboy and to be at the helm.

So fast forward two weeks, we could very well still be in a search.

They could have also decided by then who they want to go with.

The other part of this is Dion saying publicly that the only way he would make the move is if he he could coach his sons.

But let's be clear.

Dallas has a franchise quarterback that they paid a record-setting contract to and Dak Prescott.

If Deion were to come to Dallas, Dak Prescott's going to be the quarterback.

So there's some other factors there.

But also when Deion said that, that job was not available.

And then the last thing I'll say is Because Jerry Jones

played it out an extra week with McCarthy, denying the Bears the opportunity to interview and really not having any progress and not having any actual contract negotiations, he now cannot interview this week a Ben Johnson or an Aaron Glenn.

He has to wait to request and actually get that slip fulfilled.

So there's a lot of moving parts there, but Deion, as it's been explained to me, is absolutely one of the top candidates should he want to pursue it.

Can I just going to push back a little bit on

the idea, not your reporting, because I would never do that.

The idea that Deion Sanders would be a fit for the Dallas Cowboys, because I get it.

I get the glitz and the glamour and why the press conference would be awesome or whatever.

But

what made, I think, Deion successful in his very limited time on the sideline as a coach, in large part for me, was like he was his Pied Piper nature and how he had a pull on these young college kids who wanted to come play with him and play with this bigger-than-life character.

That's not going to, that's not the way the NFL works.

So like him joining a very, if this were to happen, Deion with no pro coaching experience, very little experience in general, hitting the sideline with sky-high expectations and in a top-heavy type roster, it's not hard to squint and be like, I don't know if this would make sense beyond how, again, amazing the opening press conference would be.

I hear what you're saying, and that's a question that I've proposed to a couple executives who are not searching for...

head coaches, but have gone down the process and been down the rabbit hole of trying to find the right head coach for their organization.

And I've gotten both answers.

One is you're right.

It's probably,

it might not be the right fit because it's the college to the pro game.

He doesn't have the

stranglehold on recruiting with the portal, with getting guys out of high school, signing blue chippers, and then also the type of impact you're going to have as a college head coach compared to an NFL coach.

But then the other side of it was he's been running Colorado like an NFL program for the last two years, for all intents and purposes, in terms of the way he structures the from everything from day to day to to the portal to recruiting to his staff Even to his players and I think one of the things that Dion brings to the table is that very few people and if anybody can is the gravitas and the connection the way he relates to players You know, it's one thing to have played but it's another to be prime and I actually was was was interested to ask a couple Cowboys current players, current starters.

I just very briefly via text, not over the phone, but I said, would you be interested in Deion?

And both the guys said, absolutely.

And then we saw CeeDee Lamb like the report.

And that makes me think that if anybody can heed the call, if anybody can do it from that level, it's Deion Sanders.

It's very, very hard to go from the college to the program.

We've seen great coaches like Nick Saban not have that success.

Dave Wanstead.

It's very, very hard.

But it's also possible when you have the type of, I think, background that Deion has.

And I think really over the last week, as Jerry Jones recognized that Mike McCarthy might not, okay, he probably won't.

Now he definitely won't be back.

He's been having these internal discussions with people inside that building that he trusts.

And I think there's a lot of interest, not just from Jerry, but throughout that Cowboys building in Deion.

Very interesting.

See how that plays out.

There's only one job that's been filled.

That's Mike Rabel.

Went to the Patriots.

No surprises there once the chess move was made made there to move Mayo out of the building.

Let's play a little bit from his opening press conference where he's introduced.

Like, I think it was important for me to

go somewhere else, to start another coaching journey.

The opportunity at one point probably presented itself to be here coaching, but I felt like it was important to forge my own path somewhere else.

And if all those experiences led me back here at the right time and and the right opportunity, then that was going to be what was meant to be.

I understand,

Jordan, that this makes so much sense for the organization reuniting with one of their favorite sons and all that.

My question to you is: this is the same organization that eight months ago or whatever, the idea was that we didn't want to go Belichick again.

We wanted to go in a different direction, a different tone, a different feel, and Mayo represented that.

So, in some ways, if you're a Patriots fan,

is it fair to be like, are we kind of running back to the old model because we tried something that was new and it was too scary for us?

That would be my only potential criticism of this hire, which otherwise seems pretty solid.

It's a very fair question.

I think it's one that a lot of Patriot fans have been asking, and rightfully so.

But Mike Vrable is

in rare air.

You know, I thought in terms of this coaching cycle that the number one draft pick was Ben Johnson.

He was scorching, but that Mike Frabel was a one-beat.

And it's because of the success he had in Tennessee AFC title, but it's you know, AFC title appearances, but it's also, I think he went to back-to-back, by the way, right?

So it's also the fact that he has the New England pedigree, and you know, he's,

he Frabel's an interesting guy in the sense that he really is a football guy through and through.

But as it's been described to me, as big a personality as he has,

and he has a big one,

one of his superpowers is that he understands that

coaches need to coach.

In other words, he cannot overpower a staff.

He needs to delegate.

And I think he did that by and large in Tennessee.

And I think Belichick, who loves to get his fingerprints on the DBs, on the linebackers, it's one thing to do that, but it's also really important to delegate.

And I've talked a lot about first-time head coaches who have struggled with that.

I think Raheem Morris learned a lot going from Tampa to Atlanta.

I think Vrabel

will really benefit from building a staff that he wants with his guys.

They brought in Ryan Cowden from the Giants, who he was very close with back to Tennessee.

That was a move that we all thought would happen.

And now he can build the type of staff that he wants based on

the ability to delegate, trusting the right coaches.

So

it's not a risky hire, but it is a flashy hire because he's a big name.

They realized very early on, I think, that Gerard Mayo, who could become a very good coach, was not ready.

The way he didn't discipline guys, the way he waffled back and forth in the media,

nothing knocked on him as a person, but he was not ready.

And frankly, the roster was nowhere near good enough to compete.

But Vrabel saw Drake May as the perfect building project, something he never really had in Tennessee, certainly not at the quarterback position.

And this this was the reason why the Patriots was such a coveted job, aside from the cap space, was look what Drake May did with a very bare kitchen cabin or cupboard of talent.

So I think Vrable is going to have a lot of success, but I do think that roster is going to take time to develop.

It's like to use the word delegation, because I think, you know, it's always the cycle of the hot coordinator that's brought in because they're mad geniuses, but then the head coaching roles like being the elementary school principal versus like a genius math teacher.

So it's like they're two totally different worlds.

And you got Ben Johnson sitting out there and Aaron Glenn's stock is obviously massively up over the last couple of weeks with what he's done.

But specifically with Ben Johnson, because he's been described as someone that wants to go deep into the lab and each week he's coming up with something new.

We see his genius.

I don't feel like I know Ben Johnson, the person though.

And I understand if you're Kraft and it's not really about Rabel so much, but Kraft's like, I got so many more years left on terra firma to do this.

So I want to go with the guy that I absolutely believe can do it based on who he is and what he's already done.

But Ben Johnson, I'm wondering, like, because he's turned down opportunities, where does he want to go?

Um, and is there a complete belief among other personnel and coordinator people that he's a true head coach personality versus a brainy, a brainiac?

Yeah, I mean, I would say that

there is the possibility.

It's not a huge, it's, I wouldn't say it's a, there's a big chance, but there is a a possibility that Ben could stay in Detroit.

It would surprise me, to say the least.

It's not impossible.

I think both him and Aaron, to your point, who I've said the last two weeks, is probably the favorite with the Jets, certainly one of them.

I think both of those guys are going to have jobs, and essentially they're pick of the litter.

But it's not impossible that one could return.

To your point about Ben Johnson,

he's basically had four interviews, right?

And I reported this last week.

Jacksonville, Raiders,

Patriots, and Bears.

And the Patriots won, he deliberately did first.

He wanted to get essentially a trial run, knowing that it was between essentially him and Frabel.

And then the one that I think surprised a lot of people was the Raiders, that he would take that job.

But the Raiders is a very intriguing franchise, and it's a franchise that, if you have the right-head coach, is a rocket ship waiting to take off because of where they are, how attractive it is, no income tax from the state, the beautiful stadium.

I've always felt that the Raiders are a sleeping giant.

They just have not had the right coach.

The Jags are a really intriguing job for a whole host of reasons.

Number one, the roster is probably the best, certainly one of them, of the non-playoff teams, especially defensively.

Offensively, There is a quarterback there.

I think Ben recognizes that Trevor is really talented and they have some weapons around them.

And then you have an owner who is not going to meddle necessarily the way that others will.

Now, I've been critical of Shad Khan

the last few years, but he's not someone that's going to meddle day to day.

And I think that's really attractive for any head coach, not just Ben.

The Bears, in many ways, to me, is the best job because of the quarterback, because of the cap space,

potentially a new stadium, and just the gravitas of that organization.

And they really haven't been relevant, and they have never had a quarterback.

But if you can get into Chicago and you think about building around Caleb Williams, someone like Ben Johnson, who really resurrected Jared Goff's career, I would argue that Caleb, obviously with the Raiders, Jags,

Caleb is the most intriguing option, and perhaps even more so than Drake are certainly at the same level.

So to answer your question, Ben is viewed as not only a technician, a mastermind, but he has been lauded internally in Detroit from Dan Campbell because of the way he connects with players.

And that is a skill that very few guys have.

And that's actually interesting to hear because some of the kind of whispers that have been coming up during this Ben Johnson conversation is that he's a genius, ex and an O's guy.

He likes to be in his dungeon figuring out schemes and trick plays and all that.

But is he, first of all, somebody that can connect with players?

And second of all, the market matters.

Like, why New York would be a tough market for Ben Johnson?

We were told Chicago, I would imagine, would be just as hard, especially football star for a winning team, Chicago is.

So

I'm curious, like, if that is affecting his decision making.

Jacksonville, it was explained in different places, was a perfect fit for Ben Johnson, where he, like, those for the reasons you said, it checked all the boxes, but then the Trent Balky of it all could scare off a potential head coaching candidate.

So is Balky 100% safe in all this?

Yeah, could Ben Johnson come and kind of bring his own guy and put Balky on the sidelines or is he rock solid right now?

Yeah, here's what I'll say about Balky.

It was perplexing.

That's a nice way to put it, that they retained him.

It would be even more perplexing if they kept him in the GM role.

And so I wonder, and I'm not reporting this, but I wonder.

If at some point here, maybe even after the draft, they were to reduce Trambalki's role and to bring in another top football guy.

Maybe, let's say hypothetically Ben goes there, maybe it's one of his guys, or maybe it's another head coach who has a GM in mind.

But I wonder if, and this has been brought up to me from other circles, again, I'm not reporting it, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Trent were to take a step back because as it is right now, it's going to be very hard.

for Jacksonville to attract the top-tier coaching talent they want and believe they should have with Trent running the show.

It's just, you know,

he survived Harbaugh.

He survived Urban Meyer.

It just feels like Trent is someone that is going to do things exactly the way he wants.

There's not a lot of flexibility there.

And if you're going to attract a top-tier head coach like a Ben Johnson, I just don't know how viable that is.

So that's something I would watch out for these next couple months.

Okay, we'll be right back with more from Jordan Schultz.

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All right, so Jordan, full disclosure.

Jet's been since 1988.

It's tough.

It's not easy.

Struggle with it.

Yeah,

you've seen some things.

I've seen things.

I lapsed earlier this season, took a break.

I'm, you know, back in, but I'm also understanding that they're in a very vulnerable place organizationally.

We haven't really touched on the Saints,

and I'll connect them with the Jets because Aaron Glenn has ties to both those places.

And

my question, because Glenn would make a lot of sense to me.

Vrabel would have been a nice pick.

I'm curious what your thoughts is.

Where does Brian Flores

fit into this?

Because he's a culture setter, which the Jets desperately need.

But one thing I would love to get to the bottom of as a Jets fan, there is reporting out there.

I saw Rich Samini has written this or reported this, that the new coach GM will have the final say on Aaron Rodgers with the Jets.

But then at the same time, we know that Woody has turned the organization into a joke with the way he's handled things.

And we know that Aaron Rodgers has made some little quips and jokes on his various programming, paid programming that makes it seem like the relationship is over.

Is that true?

Is Aaron Rodgers' fate with the Jets up in the air?

Or is it already decided, regardless of who they bring in?

You know, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Aaron has played his last game, but I also wouldn't be stunned if he hasn't.

And to that point, the Jets make sense to potentially run it back if you're Aaron Rodgers.

Now, I don't know, to your point about Woody Johnson, all due respect, but, you know, he bought the team in 2000.

They have the sixth worst winning percentage in the NFL since then.

And they have the longest playoff drought, I believe, in North American sports, which is 2010.

Woody, I will say this, and this is how, this is one of the reasons why that's a very attractive job.

He does not, he gives guys time.

You know, he gave Joe Douglas six years.

That's a really long time to give a GM who does not have a playoff appearance.

You know, he gave Salah over three.

And I think going back, they would never admit this, but they probably regret firing Robert Salah at two and three, basically on the heels of the, or on the verge of a potential first place game in the AFC East.

They were right there.

I mean, they were in it.

So, I listen, I don't know what the Jets are going to do.

I don't think anybody does.

I believe that Aaron Glenn continues to be the favorite, or certainly one of them.

And the fact that you mentioned that word culture, Aaron is a culture guy who also had success as a player in New York.

And the thing about the Jets, or the Giants for that matter, is these jobs are such pressure cookers with such a daily blitzkrieg of media.

If you're not built internally to withstand it, it is very, very hard, I would say impossible to win there, even with great talent.

And the Jets do have some really good talent, but they also have to make a lot of decisions.

It's not just Aaron Rodgers.

It's also, they have all these young extension eligible guys, you know, Brees Hall and Asaas and Garrett Wilson and Jermaine Johnson, who's obviously coming off the injury.

So whoever gets the GM head coach job there, the number one thing is there has to be cohesion.

They have to get it right.

And I guess to come full circle, it wouldn't surprise me if Aaron is back, but to anyone that will tell you one way or the other, I think

only Aaron knows.

All right, to a little notebook dump before we go.

Like, we've still got a number of true coaching candidates in the playoffs.

So, I want to give you three names, and you tell me how you would rank them: Todd Munkin, Ravens OC, Joe Brady, Bills OC, and Cliff Kingsbury, Commander's OC.

So Brady, Muncen.

Okay, I would go.

I would go Kingsbury one

because what he did with Jaden Daniels this year,

special.

What he's doing with Jaden Daniels this year, the fact that they go on the road and beat a pretty good Tampa team with a very good defensive coach and Todd Bowles.

I'm just blown away by Kingsbury.

And there's a story, I can't take credit for this, I think it was Greg Golson who told this story, but there's a story he said, when Cliff came into Washington, the first thing he did with Jaden Daniels was, show me the best three, four, five play concepts that you feel most comfortable with running from college, from LSU.

And they put it on paper or they put it on the board.

And that's the genesis of how Cliff built the offense around Jaden Daniels.

And then, obviously, you incorporate your own concepts.

But I've had these conversations with Cliff about what it is about Jaden Daniels.

And he said, it's going to be tough to lead that guy.

It has to be a really special opportunity as a head coach.

So, like a Ben Johnson, it wouldn't shock me if Cliff were back.

I think there's a better chance Ben's a head coach, but it's just something to consider.

Munkin and Brady,

I would go Muncin 2 because he's now had two consecutive years with arguably the best quarterback in football in Lamar Jackson.

I think this year, the first time in Lamar's career, esteemed career, over 40 touchdown passes.

And the fact that he's, listen, it's not like it's hard to figure out how to use Derrick Henry, but there were question marks about how that would look, what that would look like.

And the fact that they've maximized Henry and Lamar, but also the Rashad Bateman's and likelys and gotten a totally revitalized Mark Andrews, it says a lot about Todd Muncin, who's now had a ton of success in Georgia with Stetson Bennett, obviously winning titles, and then now in Baltimore.

And then Joe Brady, not a knock on him at three, but I do wonder if the fact that Brian Dayball, who was essentially in the same position a few years ago, Josh Allen's guy, built the offense around him, and then goes to New York and has obviously not had very much success.

I wonder if that hurts him.

I don't know if it does, but it's also the fact that you have Josh Allen, you could really say the same about Muncin, but you have these superstar quarterbacks.

You wonder if teams say, well, that's more the player than the coordinator.

But all three are viable.

But if you asked me to rank them, I would go Cliff, Todd, and Joe, respectively.

All right.

And

again, Jordan Schultz,

Fox Sports, NFL insider,

follow him everywhere, and he's on top of everything.

And before we go, last thing, we have tying together the team still in it, and then this conversation.

We know no matter what, the eight teams teams left.

Andy Reid's not going anywhere.

Demico Ryan's ain't going nowhere.

Dan Campbell's not going anywhere.

Dan Quinn's not going anywhere.

And Sean McVay, not going anywhere.

Siriani,

Harbaugh, McDermott, any of those guys potentially could something crazy happen if things go sideways this weekend.

Yeah, I would say the one guy, the one guy, and I'm not saying it's going to happen, but the one guy to watch for if things go really badly would be Sirianni.

There is a

there's a murmur around the league from coaching executive agents I've talked to as well as a couple teams that and this was actually more before last game against Green Bay in the wild card but there was a thought process that if the Eagles flamed out and it was a really bad performance really against Green Bay that Siriani would be potentially a name to watch.

I haven't tapped back since, but if you're asking me about those three guys, I think Harbaugh is good.

Who was the other one?

Well, we had Harbaugh.

We have McDermott.

I mean,

Sirianni, yep.

They're so pleased with McDermott's growth this year.

There's a real sense that he's mature as a coach.

But Sirianni, you know, like

he's a really good head coach, but

it's not impossible.

You could foresee a scenario in theory where if Philly were to have a really bad performance and they lose, that

he could be in trouble.

I don't think that's going to happen, but of those three, that would be the one guy I would watch for.

I hope that it's a decent way to answer the question.

It is.

Jordan, thank you very much, buddy.

I like this Noble Insider branding.

I think you feel free to run with it if you want.

Credit us if you want.

They check the phone more than three times.

I had the phone call come in.

We got rid of that.

Got a few texts, but nothing.

See,

I got to be present.

If I'm not present, what am I?

At least that's what my therapist told me.

He said, if you're not present, then you're not going to be happy.

So my therapy has helped me a lot.

Very healthy mindset.

Thank you very much, Jordan Schultz.

Thank you.

Thanks, guys.

Appreciate you.

You got it.

All right.

There he goes, Jordan Schultz.

Good information there, Mark.

A lot of moving pieces.

And

I'm not looking to

kick the,

what is the expression?

I don't know.

I'm not looking to rile up Eagles fans with that last question.

I was just curious if

there is maybe a little more heat around Siriani, yes, but to the point that I made on the end of the Monday night show that whoever loses that Bills-Ravens game,

critical failure for the organization not to get at least back to the NFL's version of the Final Four.

I think even more so on the McDermott side.

But what he said is that maybe McDermott's standing has risen in that organization based on how well the season has gone.

I mean, I think it matters what type of game it is and how the losing team falters.

And

last year when the Ravens lost in the title game and everything that they had done and what their identity was vanished, that's when you get concerned.

But I think it seems like Harbaugh has had this little thing for years where it's like, maybe Harbaugh would be in trouble.

I think it's just

he's just been there for so long.

You get running out of people to point at.

Go find someone better than John Harbaugh.

That would be my one thing on that.

But I think Siriani,

it's not that you got the answer you wanted, but I think it confirms

that I mean, not the answer that I want, but the line that Jordan did lead with there, there's a murmur.

Yeah, so let's see how the game goes, let's see how the divisional playoffs play out.

And, and last thing before we go, like on the Jets side of things, I know that Aaron Rodgers

the best move for the organization is probably to move on.

But let me just indulge me in terms of like on Sunday, I'm watching my favorite team for three and a half hours.

The one thing that all the stuff around Rodgers, including the things that come out of his mouth, annoying.

But Aaron Rodgers on the field was

still a suitable quarterback, a very good, at the very least, bridge quarterback.

And the Jets probably, that's what they're heading toward, no matter what, I feel like, in 2025.

And would I rather watch Aaron Rodgers as the quarterback in a bridge season or Tyrod Taylor, for instance, who's under contract?

That one's pretty easy for me.

So that's the only place where I'm touring.

If we're going to say goodbye to Rodgers, you're essentially saying goodbye to a guy that still can play quarterback position to bring in somebody else who can't really play or you're hoping for best case scenario, what Rodgers gave you this year.

Given where the Jets are in the draft picking seventh, given that it's a bad quarterback draft class and there's no obvious reinforcements on the outside, I just think it's more of a personnel-wise, personnel-wise, solely, he should come back.

Now, relationship-wise and vibes-wise, I get why he shouldn't come back, but that's part of the decision organizationally they have to make.

I mean, I would, if you, and it's, and you're, you're being openly realistic about the fact that when you watch them, what do you want to see, that experience?

I get that.

But the last time.

He's still fun to watch.

He really is.

He's a fun player to watch, even at this age.

Yeah.

That's over here.

But over here is like an Aaron Glenn, who's never been a head coach.

It's one thing if like Mike Rabel came into New York and like we get who he is and he's not going to be overpowered by players, but like do I saddle a first-time head coach with the Aaron Rodgers experience despite the play of Aaron Rodgers down the stretch or do I clean the deck and not have that be, it's not, it just hasn't been a positive experience and I'd rather not soil the waters with a new GM and new head coach with this because it's going to be dramatic in some way, shape, or form.

And it's a conundrum because he's good, but like I just don't do that.

I think they need a fresh start, fresh water as much as any team in the league.

And Rodgers does not represent that.

Yeah.

I hear you.

This is going against kind of common sense.

I understand that.

And I also think Garrett Wilson, for instance, is more important to the franchise's long-term health at this point than Aaron Rodgers.

And I don't think, for instance, Garrett Wilson has any interest in continuing to play football with...

with Aaron Rodgers.

There's just something about that guy.

And again, Aaron, you do your darkness retreats, you go on your trips, the Netflix cameras show, you know, pulsating wires in your temporal lobe and all that stuff.

Like,

what you need to think about is why nobody wants to hang out with you.

Well,

he wants to hang out with him.

The only lasting relationship he has, as far as I can tell, is the one with McAfee where he gets paid like a million dollars in appearance.

Well, that seems like a business relationship as much as anything else.

Anyway, anything else you want to add, Mark, before we, you know, a little mini-a show here,

bridging us to the

super divisional round Preview Spectacular with Jordan and Mike?

No, the only guy I would have loved to ask Jordan about, and maybe we can follow up online or something, but

the idea that Pete Carroll's name is back out there, and I know the Bears are just doing a huge wide search, but the idea that Pete Carroll would go somewhere this season, like there's just a couple big names out there that, depending on who you are, it might be attractive to a team that doesn't land like the hot, you know, 36-year-old coordinator.

By hot, I mean their skill set.

Sure.

I mean, we're a country that our last three presidents are like

74, 80, and 78 years old.

But very capable.

Like, you can't see, you've got to call them very capable.

It is, yeah.

So the fact that Pete Carroll at 72

should be crossed off any list, that seems a little bit unfair considering his track record, but it doesn't seem like he has a huge market right now, put it that way.

I'd agree.

And also, and Justin was very fired up

about

the information around the Titans, that it wasn't too.

Go ahead, Justin.

Make sure, because I know everyone's on the edge of their seats about the information around the Titans' playoff success earlier this decade.

Oh, for sure.

Jordan said, I think Vrabo went to back-to-back AFC title appearances.

It was one AFC title appearance in 2019.

And then in 2021, the Titans got the number one overall seed.

They actually set the record in the playoffs that year with nine sacks, the one the Rams tied on Monday night.

They lost the game.

Two things.

Two things.

Like, when we're on,

the way that we do these shows, like, you can, we can see Justin's face the whole time.

And, like, he just got so tingly when the Titans were mentioned.

But then, secondly, are you actually now correcting our guess along with the hosts?

No, I just think that's just as you can.

We want to have have accurate information out there, right?

Absolutely.

I do care about accurate information.

In this age of misinformation, more than ever, we need adjusting getting the Titans' info correct to the people.

Last point on Vrabel, since we're here.

And

I do think it's a good hire for the Patriots.

I don't get me wrong.

I do think it's also, it shows, again, the thing.

Everyone just is focusing, oh, they got a quarterback, and now they got Vrabel and they're good.

I still get this feeling that the organization is not being run at a high level anymore.

And look at the way their free agent signings, many of their draft picks.

Like, I'm not going to go crazy that they nailed the Drake May pick just because they suck so hard that he fell right into their lap at number three last year, for instance.

That's not some organizational hit.

Like, it's like, okay, it worked out for you.

You were lucky that Drake May was there.

My point being, let's see how this team now builds for Vrabel because the larger point, and Justin, like the Titans got rid of Rabel because they kind of got to the point where they wanted a fresh start.

And it's just funny to me how just time

rehabs these guys, these retread guys.

And by the time they get their new job, they're seen as like these unbelievable difference makers where it's like, okay, Vrabel is a good coach, but he went to one AFC title game and lost in, what, how many years?

Seven years or whatever?

It's not like we're talking like prime Vince Lombardi.

Sometimes these guys get burnished so much by the cycle that it feels like,

as speaking as like a Jets fan, like, I'm not losing sleep that Mike Vrabel's not the head coach.

Like,

hold on.

Come on.

I think Vrabel is a, I think Vrabel is the, the best hire of this cycle by far right now.

But do you see my point?

That is Mike Vabel.

I see your point, but I also think the one thing I'd watch with Vrabel is, and Justin, you know the finite detail, but it's like his ability to get along with front office, general manager, various decisions that are made.

Like, it's more just the power structure.

And I think that New England's power structure in the front office has been murky.

And Vrabel is like an alpha that's going to walk around and wants to run the show.

I mean, it still is murky, Mark, because they have to be able to do it.

No, actually, I just, it is now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, actually, during our taping of this show, actually, you guys were super invested in Jordan because you're professionals.

I was just scouring Twitter to make sure we didn't miss anything.

Yes.

And it came out during this taping that Vrabel will have full, like he is the top dog.

Elliot Wolf, who's being retained, will will answer to Mike Vrabel.

Interesting.

And Ryan Cowden, who Jordan mentioned worked with Vrabel in Tennessee, has been brought on also to support.

But Vrabel, they've established that power structure as of about 20 minutes ago.

That's a

really important.

That's a Belichick power structure.

I think Kraft is just saying enough with anything else.

We're going back to what made me feel good.

And I guess my point

overall is, yes,

they're kind of retreating to what feels safe, which is give this one guy all the power in the organization.

But Bill Belichick is Bill Belichick

and Mike Rabel is Mike Rabel.

And

there's a difference there.

I know we want to do, and Patriots fans and everyone's like, this is an apples to apples home run.

I'm just saying, like, sometimes these guys get puffed up in the coaching

process, and all of a sudden it seems like we've just hired the greatest coach of all time.

There's no apples compared to Belichick.

I think it's Kraft saying, I'm 89 years old, or at least I seem that way.

And I want to get the guy.

I don't want to do this again a year from now.

I want to get the guy who's been a patriot, who was put into the ring of honor a year ago, and told the entire stadium, this is a special place.

Like, that's getting Kraft all jiggly.

Like, that's what Kraft wants to hear.

And he did go get a good coach.

Like, we're not arguing for someone.

He did get a good coach.

And so

we'll see.

But

for Vrabel, the interesting thing is John Robinson got fired.

And Vrabel took over more power.

That was the point where things started to go downhill for them.

And the Titans started a season seven and four and then lost every game for the rest of the year in his, I think, his second to last year.

So

it's definitely something to watch because apparently Vrabel is the one who wanted the Titans to go sign Andre Dillard, and he was a disaster at left tackle for them.

So his.

Has he been slightly overinflated during this process?

That's all I'm saying.

Yes, and I think it's partly because he's a massive, burly, like football-looking dude.

And like

a culture guy.

He is a culture guy.

There's no doubt about the Titans who were culture-free for a long time that Vrabel gave them that.

And I think if you're the Patriots, you lack that a year ago and you go back to what's comfortable, you know.

And I'm not being hypocritical about this because if the Jets would have hired Vrabel, and it could have happened potentially if the Patriots stuck with Mayo, I would have been happy with the hire, but I wouldn't be feeling the way I felt when the Jets hired Bill Parcells.

That's my point.

Like, it's these guys

they get kind of pumped up during the process.

And

now I would would like, and I would like one of these guys that have not had a chance yet in the big chair.

And maybe

you land to Dan Campbell.

Like, you might as well take a big swing at this point

in the cycle.

And we'll see.

I'm sure the Jets will nail it, by the way.

I'm sure whatever decision is.

Well, there's no doubt.

I mean,

I think Jordan between the lines was telling us that he also had no doubt.

All right, good stuff.

Thank you, everybody, for watching and listening.

And until Thursday, do what you must.

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