NFL Week 14 Preview!!

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It's fair.

It's a fair request.

Welcome to Heat the Call, the week 14 preview.

Dan Hans is here with the Sess Dog.

Mark, how are your sleeping habits, by the way?

Um, well, you know, it's hard to buck the narrative that no matter what I say or respond to this question, people will just assume that I don't sleep well.

I don't, but

I actually did a study or I looked at it and like, there are people who sleep for like a block of time and then they're up for a block of time and then they fall asleep for a block of time.

The problem is that the second block of time often conflicts with when we're doing

shows or supposed to do shows.

So that's, you know, I blame the show for my lack of sleep on some level.

I got you.

I don't know why I just went down that thread, but it's an explanation.

I hear that.

And,

well, I hope you continue down this journey of

slumber and make positive strides

as we move forward.

Listen,

just want to say a quick shout out before we bring in Mike and Jordan and get into all the games to the listeners, because it is that time of year, tis the season when Spotify drops its top podcasts and then everyone shares them.

And,

you know, a common thread was, hey, you guys have only been on the air for four months with Heed the Call, and here you are.

You're either our number one, or you're our number two, or there's a combination of podcasts that we've been on, Mark, that we're one-two.

Leave it at that.

And that is a very cool thing.

So thank you to everybody for your support.

That is awesome.

Yeah, because I thought, Mark, when we did this, we launched Heed the Call, we felt confident, right, that we would, there would be migration and people would give us a shot.

But then to see the proof in the pudding is awesome.

So thank you to everybody.

Yeah, it's a, you know, it's been a, well, it's been an interesting experiment.

It's a grassroots movement on many levels, not unlike the, you know, the Contras down, the Sandinistas down in Central America back in the day.

So it's, we are, that's what we are.

And like to even to be in the, you know, up where we are, like, um, it speaks to the fact, and we've, you know, we like to sometimes jab at the listeners, but they deserve a ton of credit for their loyalty.

And without them, we'd be an echo chamber talking to no one, just ourselves, you and me.

Yes, and a nice little Easter egg there that if we weren't Heed the Call, the backup or the number two choice for our show was the Sandinistas with Z at the end.

But we ended up going with

Heed the Call.

Yeah.

All right, without further ado.

So thank you to everybody.

Let's welcome in two people that are also vital in us having this success that we've had since the launch of Heed the Call.

It is the great Jordan Rodriguez and Michael Sean Dugar of The Athletic, our regular Thursday contributors with a Z.

What's up, Mike?

Mark, you'll be maybe happy to know.

I pulled an all-nighter to get home from New York over the weekend.

Brothers in awe, right?

Yep.

Absolutely.

Jordan, how are you?

I'm good, Mark.

I have a sleep podcast for you.

But you do run the risk of...

not really knowing what happens in the middle of the podcast because it puts you to sleep and perhaps some sort of mind control taking place.

So that's the risk.

Yeah, that sums up my alley.

But you will sleep.

Okay.

Share it with me.

I am very interested in that.

Hey, by the way, Mike, you were in New York for Jet Seahawks last week.

You did text on the weekend about where's Joe's pizza.

I did my best.

I connected with my brother, Kevin Danger, Hansis, a Brooklyn native, and I gave you a couple different locations.

Did you find your way to Joe's?

Did you try the best pizza in New York?

I didn't.

I passed out.

I traveled for 12 hours on Saturday.

So by the time I got to my hotel, like I sat down and I was full dad mode.

Just was like, I just started snoring, right?

Just sitting in the house.

No, sleep sitting up.

Yeah, at the desk, not even in the hotel.

Like I sat down and then I just like, I couldn't even, couldn't even move.

And I woke up at like 5 a.m.

and my sleep schedule was thrown off for the rest of the

rest of the day.

I had some pizza from this street dude right next to my hotel on Sunday night, which was, it was just, I I think it's

selling pizza.

Is it the pizza?

Mike, what'd you get yourself into?

Are you okay?

It was fine.

It was like street food in New York.

Isn't that not like a thing?

No, well, yes, there is.

There's like halal food and hot dogs famously and these nuts.

But I don't, as someone who lived in New York City and several of the boroughs, I don't ever remember seeing a street vendor selling pizza.

And I'm a little nervous about like where the ingredients came from, what this is.

Now, I haven't, I've been in LA now for several years over a decade and a half, but maybe now there are pop-up street corner pizzas.

Yeah, there was tons of them.

That's interesting.

They are trying to control the rat population over there.

Hey, Mark, I wanted to fact-check you really quick, if you don't mind.

Well, you'll mind, but,

you know,

yes, I was doom texting you, guys, over the weekend, if we're talking about weekends.

It rather had much more to do with my state of physical being at that and very little to do with the Rams.

Well, yes, so this was in reference to me suggesting that you were going a little dark on the Rams situation early in the game there.

And then I left and I spent, you know, a day kind of concerned, like, will Jordan be annoyed that I mentioned that at all?

But I did mention that

towards the end of that game, you came around very fair and balanced in your response to the Rams.

Well, I had electrolytes in my body at that point.

Yeah, you were in a tough physical shape based on reports.

Electrolyte, one of the great REM gems of the 90s.

All right.

Welcome to the Sandinistas podcast.

Let's get into it.

Week 14.

A reminder: we have six teams on by.

Is this it?

I think this might be my week.

Yep.

So, Denver, Indianapolis, New England, Washington, Baltimore, Houston, all have the week off, and I'm sure they are relieved.

I mean, getting the week 14 by that stuff, you got to grind through 13 weeks after training camp before you get a buy in half these teams, half the roster is obviously

near death at this point.

So I'm sure they are enjoying their best life.

And now we will dig into the other teams playing.

Let's get into it as we always do.

And by the way, one reminder, last reminder, last system or

last note, program note.

Get some more coffee.

Last program note is that we will be again live on Thursday night.

The TNF recap of the game of the week, Lions Packers.

Please check in on that.

And I also would like to jump on over on the Patreon.

There is a weekly chat for the primetime games.

And I kind of did like the bad dad thing.

A couple weeks ago, I said I would be in the live chat for one of the games, and then I completely forgot about it.

So it was like the dad who says, Son, I'll be at your game.

And then the kid comes up at the base is loaded in the last inning, and he looks in the bleacher spot, and it's just empty.

I promise I'll be there, and I'm going to interface with

our fine fans.

That's a promise, son.

All right, let's get into it.

I will promise nothing,

which is a strong way to handle your own evening.

Very nice.

Primetime games.

Like we said, it's not the best week of games, which sometimes leads to the best football game, so don't count it out.

But the primetime games are good.

Thursday, absolute banger.

Sunday night football, where we're starting here, the Los Angeles Chargers, number nine in the Heed the Call Power Rankings.

The power rankings of record travel to Kansas City City to face the champs.

Dropped to number four in the Heed the Call Power Rankings.

So my theory that, Mark, I bravely postulated that the Chiefs actually might not be that good.

This isn't a Robo-Dope situation.

They're coming down in the rankings.

So maybe there's some support, even if some are afraid to say it for fear of ridicule.

Well, I think there's a little exhaustion around the Chiefs

in the way that they win games.

They seem impenetrable in terms of one one possession games.

Something happens each week that kind of magnifies their what you I wouldn't call it luck, but I think that's what people would call it.

But this is a different situation.

Like this is like the Chargers,

there is evidence that

the Jim Harbaugh effect matters a lot to this team.

Like Justin Herbert has gone 10 straight starts without throwing in an interception.

They've got this is a surprise to me, but they've got the best scoring defense in the league.

And so isn't this why Jim Harbaugh was brought to LA and to the Chargers for this exact matchup?

And

I wonder if that will, if this needs to translate right now.

Yeah, Mike, I feel like Harbaugh, he loves this.

Like, the idea to go to Kansas City, arrowhead, he knows, we all know that the Chiefs, and you look at the over-under, it's only 42.5.

So, like, it's a kind of a game that you figure is going to be close, not a lot of points.

And the Chargers have been winning those games all year.

Yeah, you know, I really like the Chargers in this.

I do think they're the better team between the two.

The closer to being, the more complete.

I don't think the Chiefs are bad or anything, but they do have some like pretty fatal flaws that we're seeing each week.

You know, I don't know what's going on with their tackle situation.

This looks like an extended version of that Super Bowl Mahomes lost.

Suddenly, they just can't cover.

Maybe they're missing my boy Jalen Watson.

Go Kooks.

They don't rush the passers super well.

bottom five and like sack rate or something.

All these things we're kind of used to seeing.

We're like, oh, wait,

they're not good at that stuff anymore.

And then on the flip side, like Mark mentioned, that the Chiefs, excuse me, the Chargers are locking up.

And you got Lightning Lad and Jay Herbo is about as good as any wide receiver quarterback combo in the league.

I wonder if like Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase, like, if they ever peep a Chargers game and are like, wow, that looks like fun.

Two guys balling and they have a defense.

You know, I feel so bad for the Bengals sometimes because that is the best quarterback receiver duo.

We'll talk about them later.

But yeah, I like the Chargers in this.

Yes, I think Harbaugh, he relishes the moment to go in there and just like, he'll say some wonky Jameisy type stuff

before and after the game, which I do think that they're going to go win.

Well, he gave them all lunch pails this week, like physically, like actual lunch pails with some of his favorite words on them, like Stalwart, for example.

So that's something.

And okay, so the Lad McConkey, he's really banged up.

He's really the only player that Justin Herbert can trust throwing to.

I still like the Chargers in this game because of how devastating the situation is at left tackle for the Chiefs.

Midway through the fourth quarter last week, the Chiefs replaced Wanyu Morris, who'd been, he's been struggling with the knee issue.

They moved Joe Tooney from left guard to left tackle, and they put like second-year player Mike Caliendo at left guard.

I didn't do that right, Dan.

I'm sorry.

Okay, but here's why this is such a huge problem.

I mean, it's already an issue, right?

We know that.

We see it.

It's all over the tape.

Pat Mahomes is visibly frustrated with some of the hits that he's taking.

He's taken 20 20 hits.

He took 20 hits in five days between Carolina and

then their last game, their previous game, excuse me.

So this is why it's such an issue against the Chargers.

The Chargers are just one of three teams who have four players who have recorded per next-gen stats 120 or more snaps from the right edge.

So they can put whoever they want among Dupree, Khalil Mack,

Tui Pelotu, excuse me, sorry, Tui, and Joey Bosa.

They can rotate whoever they want against the Chiefs' biggest weakness, and that player can have success, and they can keep that player fresh.

They can put any of four guys there and just harass Mahomes all day.

Yeah, I think it's a major concern.

I think that's the key to this idea of are the Chiefs actually in trouble as we head down the stretch?

Can they get the offensive line fixed?

Because, yeah, that year that they were devastated on the line, they won the AFC title.

But then when they got to the Super Bowl

they faced a team in Tampa Bay that could pin back their ears and get after the quarterback, Mahomes took a vicious beating in that game.

They got blown out.

There was, and you made a good point there, Jordan, that you have seen that frustration.

Mahomes obviously is a class act and a great teammate, so he's not going to go blow up people.

But you saw him gesturing towards, I believe, Andy Reid late in that game.

I think before the

Chiefs had a game to a chance to close that game out against the Raiders on offense, and I think they went three and out, which prompted the drive by O'Connell that ended with a terrible fumble.

But kind of like that gesture, like, come on, you guys got to get me some help here.

And they're past the trade deadline.

We're past everything.

And now it's just, they need to find a way to make it work.

Here's Mahomes talking a little bit about the offensive line and execution issues.

I don't know if it's affected me too much.

I mean, I've played with all those guys

before, and I know those guys are out there battling.

They're out there, and they've played winning football before.

And so I just go about my business, go about my process, and try to stay within the scheme of the offense.

And then, when stuff breaks down, I try to go out there and make plays.

And so, that's just that's good.

I'm going to continue to do.

After that last sack in the fourth quarter, you looked like you were pretty upset about that.

Did you talk to Andy about making a change at any point there?

I did not.

No, I was more upset just because

I felt like there was people open and we had hadn't scored in the red zone.

And so, I knew that was a big drive.

And I think I was just more upset about the

fact that we didn't execute at a high enough level in the red zone.

So then to me, yeah, there it is.

It comes down to, Mark, do the Chargers with McConkey either out or limited here, can they put up enough points?

Or

is this going to profile as another narrow Chiefs win where they make the big play at the end?

I think this is a field goal game, and I could see it going either way.

It would be a huge win for the Chargers if they could pull it off.

Yeah, like I'm a little surprised.

to hear the negativity around Kansas City because they overcome their weaknesses better than any team in the league.

But you said it, Mark.

People are just sick of the Chiefs at this point.

And I think

that's different than actually

that's different because I think that's emotional.

And I don't disagree with that.

And they play close games, so I think you're right that it will be a close game.

But the idea that the Chargers, who to me, the one issue is they're weapons poor.

They have an empty shelf when it comes to how are they going to beat Kansas City on offense?

With who, with what?

Because

they were meant to be this run-heavy bully, and there's been plenty of games where they've not really run the ball as well as you'd think either so i want to see it happen i'd love i think it'd be a great story in the afc for the chargers to do it under harbaugh but like i just keep picking kansas city over and over because they're going to find a way in the final 10 minutes of the game to stretch it out and win this is what they do like i don't i don't i don't really i can't diagnose um a chargers victory here

well thanks for trying

Well, you want me to, though?

No, I don't care.

I mean, again, yeah, I don't care if you do or not, but I do think the, yeah, Chiefs by three and a half, this is a field goal game.

I feel pretty good about that.

Let's move to Charlie.

And Cameron Dicker, ironically, somewhat ironically,

the Chargers are in a much more stable situation right now at Kicker.

I mean, you know, the Chiefs' backup to the backup, to the backup that they signed.

Yeah, it hasn't been an issue per se, but Cameron Dicker is nails.

Also, he dressed up as Edna Mode for Halloween, so icon.

There you go.

And isn't it such a Chiefs thing that they could be on their fourth kicker and it's not an issue yet?

Yes.

I know, right?

Lose a bunch of heartbreaking, dumb games, just like everybody else does.

What the hell?

All right, the other game, Monday Night Football, not as tasty.

In fact, pretty wretched.

In fact, as I understand it, my sons are amped up about it because they saw the commercial.

I read somewhere that Cincinnati at Dallas, obviously Cincinnati, one of the most disappointing teams, if not the most disappointing team in football,

hopelessly out of the mix right now.

The Cowboys, we all know about the Cowboys, game wasn't flexed because of a prior prior

business arrangement with, I believe, Disney or Nickelodeon for some type of, oh, it's the Simpsons.

It's the Simpsons.

They had already done the drawing and the illustrations.

Right, that is going to be aired concurrently with this game, and they couldn't obviously parachute out of that because of all the work and the agreement.

So us as football fans, we're stuck with two teams playing out the string, essentially.

So here are the Bengals.

Same old story with the Bengals.

They're going to score a lot of points, but not get stops against the Cowboys in Dallas.

Buck Aikman Salters on the call.

Jordan, what are you thinking here?

I think Dallas's defense looks better.

And, you know, when you add Micah Parsons back into a lineup, like you're going to get better.

But I do think that they're starting to

express their pressure packages that maybe they wanted to do earlier in the year, particularly on known passing downs or must-pass or predictable pass downs.

They're pressuring quarterbacks at a 50% rate per next gen.

Joe Burrow's great against pressure.

So that's, to me,

the matchup to watch here that does make this, like, besides the Simpsons thing, like a little bit more exciting than what it looks like on paper.

Because everywhere else, I don't have any expectation at all for the weaknesses of...

either of these units, the weaknesses of the Bengals defense, for example.

And now they're going to be without linebacker Logan Wilson.

He's going to miss the rest of the season after getting knee surgery, reported by multiple outlets on Thursday morning.

Sorry about the siren in the background of my audio.

No, it's gritty.

It's good.

Yeah.

And we're going to suffer through this game.

The blood is in the alley and the streets.

But I think, honestly, these teams are who they are.

We're seeing now that their weaknesses will be for, you know, exposed for everyone to see and probably piss Jamar Chase off even more than he already is.

Oh, let's listen to Jamar Chase.

Nice tee up, Jordan.

She didn't even know we had it.

I'm learning.

What a stud.

A pro that Jordan Rodriguez.

I do have it.

It's in the rundown, which I was in very early in the week.

Yes, very good.

Very good.

Look at you.

Unbelievable.

Anyway, frustration leaking out from everywhere.

We've heard Burrow.

Burrow's comments were not so cryptic, pretty on the nose.

In fact, after the loss to Pittsburgh at home, where he's like, yeah, we're going to, these last five weeks, we're going to find out who can help us and who can't.

And then Jamar Chase was asked in the locker room after the game, like, do you feel like the pressure to always be on on offense?

And here's what he said.

Did you feel like y'all offensively y'all had to score every drive?

Doesn't matter how the game was going because you're early.

Do you feel y'all pressing, they've got to get as many points as possible given how the back and forth was.

That's kind of high expectations now.

How tough is that to play a game-in- and game-out basis knowing you as an offense don't really have much of a margin for air?

Got to find a way.

Tamara, you surprised your defense a struggle to win your pass.

I don't know.

They need to find a way.

We got to find a way.

Rough.

Mike,

you cover the Seattle Seahawks.

uh i don't think you were there for the peak legion of boom years but there was always a lot of tension or at least we were told from the outside with that great defense and uh and then russell wilson and the offense and in general locker rooms they can they be torn apart by that type of um you know discrepancy and difference between the the production level of each side of the ball Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Especially when the guys on offense can get the benefit of the doubt that Joe can.

Like, you just know, like, no one's going to be be like, Joe, play better.

You know what I mean?

Because he's been to the Super Bowl and he's killing it right now.

That's that looks like, honestly, a little bit like your Jets last couple years where the defense was nails and their offense could not get the ball across midfield.

And eventually, the nicest guys in the world, like, even like DJ Reid, were like, dog, do we need to get pick sixes every week?

Like, this is ridiculous.

Like, I mentioned we talked about the Chargers.

I do feel like bad for Joe and those guys.

And also, this is just now was an example of why me and Jordan are some patio.

They're literally the first first line on my notes for the Bengals,

who's a playing?

Oh, Cowboys was

nice to see Dallas's defense showing some life in comma, or in parentheses, Micah, exclamation point, top five.

The Cowboys are top five in pressure rate.

Because that's the first thing I was looking at.

I was like, oh, the Cowboys' defense doesn't suck anymore.

But honestly, I know we don't have the sound of that, but like you alluded to, Dan, Joe Burrow's comments are even like almost just as bad after the game to me because he was pretty much like, yeah, man, I gotta score.

I gotta be perfect.

You know, here we go.

I mean, same thing as Jamar, but like, I feel like he's a little bit more like when you're a receiver, you kind of expect that.

But for the quarterback, to basically, like, dang, this sucks, man.

I gotta throw like five touchdowns a week, and we still might lose.

You know, to hear him basically come out and say that.

If you're the defense, that's got a light of fire under you more than any getting cussed out or chewed out.

Like, like, Joe and Jamar legitimately just like disappointed in you, like parents at how bad you stink.

You know, that's got to, you know, fire them up somehow, I would like to think.

Well, and I think if you're Joe Burrow, like you're, like, you're savvy enough to know how MVP voting and voting in general works, and he's watching his best season flitter away.

He has the most losses with 300-plus passing yards and three touchdowns in a single season in NFL history.

And this team, this team, the stats around and the numbers around Cincinnati are starting to become incredible.

Like, they're 0-7

against sub-500 teams, but they are scoring 30-plus points a game in those defeats.

I mean, this is like

this is how you tear or lock a room apart.

Absolutely.

It's one of the weirdest seasons ever.

It's one of the weirdest seasons ever.

It's so hard to do.

That is so hard to do.

And I just wanted to ask Mike and Dan, do you guys remember that one glorious week where you shared the Jets?

Oh, yeah.

Whenever Mike says your Jets with a little emphasis, I always think of that one week.

It's like, Mike, like, I've been rooting for the Jets since 1988 when my dad took me to my first game in a downpour at the old Giants Stadium.

And Freeman McNeil fumbled in the red zone in overtime, and the Jets had to settle for a 17-17 tie with the Chiefs.

And I've been living through it for, you know, 35 years since or whatever.

Mike, it just took one game for him to be like, I am out of here.

Yeah, I think I can't remember when exactly it was, but I do know whatever game that Devontae Adams decided he was the adult in the room, that's when I was like, oh, this is bad.

That was after his his first game, literally.

What a season.

Oh, my God.

I was just joking with guys about that in the press box at MetLife just last weekend.

I was like, yo, when Devontae shows up and decides he's the adult, oh, you guys are cooked.

Parallel parallel vibes, though, to the point that to bring it full circle, like the Jets and the Bengals, the players getting more outspoken by the week,

compounding failure.

Now, what the Bengals are accomplishing right now, as Mark pointed out, is nothing short of historic for Joe Burrow for all the right reasons, for the entire team for all of the wrong reasons.

And truly, like, they are about, they will make it, they are about to make history this year with that gap between offensive production and defensive failure.

Shout out to along the beat reporter reigns, like Rich Samini of ESPN, who's covered the Jets since 1989, and covering the same shit over and over again.

Cannot be easy.

And a little shout-out before we hit the break to Trevor Sakema and Seth Galina over at PFF, who do great work.

They do.

Had a great

podcast title this week, Joe Burroughs Lost MVP Season.

Indeed, it is a lost MVP season.

It will be forgotten, but those who watched it, you marvel at how well a quarterback can play and a team could be this bad.

Anyway, let's take a break.

We'll be right back with the games we cannot wait to watch.

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we are back.

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Terry, is all this really necessary?

Look, honey, it's just a precaution.

In three weeks, the trial will be over.

Besides, the kids will love staying at their granny's for a few days, right?

Oh no, they have kids.

Check your oil, sir.

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sure.

Lisa, this is a gangland trial, and I'm the prosecution's ace in the hole.

Now, I don't want to frighten you, but if they can find a way to get to me, they will.

I just don't like taking the kids out of school, you know, living like fugitives.

Trust me on this, all right?

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that

has a real 70s television drama vibe to it.

But then, you know, if you're Lisa, your acting career is taking off and suddenly you're essentially written out of the show.

I mean,

it's a tough situation.

R.I.P.

Wow.

Mike, you know, you are a cinephile, and I feel like all of a sudden we found ourselves at a

crucible point.

Feels like the third act is going to be off the chain.

It does.

What's that?

This long-running soap opera is like Young and the Restless or something like that.

Yes.

That my grandma always watches.

That's what that sounds like, but like the modern version.

I like it.

My hope is that we get a dark Terry arc, like John Wick style.

I mean, the, yeah, you could only hope.

I mean,

Lisa's gone.

It sounds like the kids.

Were the kids in the car?

Yeah, that's

pretty dark.

That was a choice.

I just want to say there's some choice by the vipers.

There's some pretty incredible sound design there with the footsteps, the gravel, the

very impressed.

All right, games, we can't wait to watch.

It's getting increasingly difficult to, you know, pivot back to football.

It's so trivial and,

you know.

All right.

Jordan, get us going.

What game are you so excited for in week 14 that you could actually just totally like push to the side the murder of an entire family?

I think you have set me up to follow this every single week.

I mean, how by the way, I don't know how.

Like, I can't.

How shallow can one be?

It's like, it's not all about football, Jordan.

And here you go, uh, just wanting to get back to ball

as like an unspeakable human tragedy unfolded right before our ears.

Yeah, this is the mark intersection, football and unspeakable human tragedy, actually.

So that's good.

Okay.

Well,

the game that I can't wait to watch

is number 21 in the Heed the Call Power Rankings, Atlanta, at number five, Minnesota.

This is the Davis, Greg Olson, Pam Oliver game.

I'm going to be honest, I picked this game because, to use a mark phrase, minus the curse, the Vikings are a pet team of mine.

They have been all year.

I love this crew.

I love listening to Greg Olson talk about football and teach people as he commentates.

I hope that he keeps winning awards, wins some sort of award and cements his legacy as the actual one crew.

One thing, Jordan, not to interrupt, but do we think the gas station attendant,

so he's responsible, right?

I mean, he sounded pretty ominous in general.

It feels like, what if he was in disguise?

You know, it sounded like a disguised voice.

Disguised voice almost, you know, it sounded a little

garbled, like somebody who normally has like a velvety smooth voice

like put several layers of gravel over it.

All right, back.

I'm sorry, sorry to interrupt.

I was just a couple of things.

Just one person's analysis of that situation.

Yeah.

Chuck your oil.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah.

Okay.

Here are the key plot points of this football game.

Sam Darnold hit a slump a few weeks ago.

It wasn't nearly as low as we've seen before.

That's the combination of repeated good habits, confidence, great scheme, a great play caller, and a great cast around him in each phase, which Terry really could have used, to be honest.

He's coming off to clutch late game performances, and the Falcons are coming off in arguably their best defensive performance of the season, which was wasted by a totally immobile Kirk Cousins, who threw four picks and is even having a hard time like stretching to execute a basic play action, which is leading to whispers in and outside of that market that they should play Mike Pennix.

But Kirk Cousins, by the way, who is returning to Minnesota this weekend, so it's time for a caffeine shot right to the calf, Kirk.

B.

John Robinson is becoming the Falcons' entire offense here.

He and Tyler Algier are in the top five of Miss Tackles forced this season.

Plot point, they face the number one run defense in the NFL in Minnesota in yards per game and scoring.

The Vikings are second this season in record in one possession games, which I don't think this will come down to.

Some are using this to doubt their caliber, kind of similarly to what we've just talked about with the Chiefs.

But here are the top teams in that parameter in 2024.

The Chiefs, of course, 9-0 in one possession games.

Vikings are 7-1.

The Eagles are 6-1.

The Lions are five and one.

And we are not questioning the caliber of the Eagles or the Lions at this point.

I don't expect this to be a one-possession game, but Kirk with a caffeine shot to the calf in Minnesota, this might get freaky.

I'm getting close.

We're all still mourning.

There's a silence.

Maybe I'm alone here, but I'm getting close to searching Kirk Cousins' caffeine shot to see if this was an actual thing to his calf or if that's just an expression.

Okay.

And if it makes you find out if it makes you freaky as well while you're on the

Google search there.

Yeah.

I was going to do the same thing, but you know, is Kirk freaky?

Any hands late shot?

Yeah, you should Google search that, Dan, for sure.

You don't know what to do.

Try to do it on a work.

You don't want to know.

Yeah.

Go ahead, Mark.

I'm just getting close to the idea that if you want to get freaky in your Falcons, that

I'm ready to try Michael Pennex in this offense.

And

I get that people, you know, maybe that sounds a little cliche at this point, but I really feel like Kirk Cousins, who has a negative EPA in three straight games, and it's not just the turnovers, you're going to get that game with Kirk Cousins.

He's going to process and see the field and read defenses better than a rookie, obviously, in many ways.

And

his effort is not to be questioned.

But Atlanta almost needs to save their season at some point.

And so I am really ready to find out what this offense looks like with a hyper-strong-armed rookie passer who can can move.

I think that's a popular opinion.

Yeah, I don't think it's completely unusual.

Right.

Yeah, the veteran and like, get in the kid, especially if it's a first-round pick and the circumstances around the decision-making that Atlanta made.

And I can't even venture a guess what conversations are being had behind the scenes with the Falcons because what they did was so unorthodox.

I have no idea what they gave Kirk Cousins a shit ton of money and then drafted a quarterback in the top 10.

So it's like, who knows?

Maybe they're itching to get him in.

But I would say, like, as someone who's followed Cousins' whole career, Mike, this isn't the first time Kirk Cousins has had a slump.

Now,

he is older.

He's thrown some balloon balls.

He can't move and all that stuff.

But like, I would think Cousins.

also is the same guy earlier in the season through for 500 yards and on thursday night football and and he has a he has a way i think he can get see himself out of this i think it would be a mistake to bench him at his lowest point but at the same time um i can understand why conversations might be being had because you might think what mark's saying like, maybe to save the season, we have a shot in the arm on the bench.

I just think that would be kind of a rash decision to make personally, given Cousins' track record of being a consistent producer.

Yeah, this, I'm torn on this.

I was thinking about this this week, too, when I got caught up on the games this week and I saw all the Kirk plays, not even just the picks, but like some of them, just some of the plays in general.

I was like, oh, this is, he might need to be taken out back.

Like, this is pretty bad.

But at the same time, this is why I wasn't a fan of the playing for the present and the future thing the Falcons tried to do because it's tricky.

You know, you set yourself up for a potential lose-lose.

Either you drafted a guy in the top 10 who you won't even get a chance to play while he's on his rookie deal, which does matter, you know, because the guy you gave $100 million to or whatever is too good, which is like kind of a lose-lose a little bit, depending on how far you go with the other guy you gave all the money to.

Or you end up playing Pennix early because the guy you guaranteed $100 million to isn't good enough, you know, and that's kind of where they're at right now.

I don't think necessarily that the reason maybe i would lean towards keeping cousins out there is giving him the benefit of the doubt like he doesn't stink like he's he's lit up there he's a big part of the reason why they're still in first place in the division because he lit up the bucks and they got the tiebreaker over them which is important so i don't think they necessarily need to save their season quote unquote because they could limp to the wild card round and get a home playoff game which yeah which yes limping literally with kirk And that doesn't sound too like great, but then some, this is maybe one of those situations where I'm not like, I'm not in Atlanta, but I do do understand everyone's got bosses right like if you're answering arthur blank and you haven't won i don't think they've had a home playoff game since the trump inauguration you know uh so like that's a long time ago to to not get that money get that excitement in your city and i they're gonna get that this year i think with kirk so while the rest of us we're like let's see pennix he's got a higher ceiling i can understand being like yo we just gave my man 100 million guaranteed he's gonna get us the division uh title which is probably gonna be the case we're gonna get a home playoff game like there are there's ways to view the season as a success, even if Kirk glimpses you there.

So, I would probably keep him in there unless he completely stinks up the joint.

But because I think revenge games have generally gone well for teams this season, I think his Vikings game will be pretty good and he'll look like passable and they'll stay within reach of winning the division, which I do think is a big deal to a franchise like that that hasn't done it in forever.

The Falcons have scored just 12 points per game since week 10.

The Vikings allow just 18.3 points per game, which is fifth best in the NFL right now.

That defense just keeps on churning and churning and churning and recreating itself week over week.

I had some logistics insight on the Pennex potential swap, but I know we want to make sure we move.

But I also have a Darnold Hive nugget for you, Dan.

So you pick

which one do you want?

I mean, you choose.

Not both, one of them.

Which one works the best?

I have to give you your Darnold Hive nugget because I do that.

That's my tradition that I'm doing every week now.

So Sam Darnold is tied with Lamar Jackson in games with a 100-plus passer rating in 2024-10.

How did that Dugar?

Ahead of Jared Goff and Joe Burrow, who each have Dugar.

That's the Darnold Hive nugget of the week.

Dan's in the corner still with the whiskey in his coffee.

By the way, you did promise, Mike, on text to DoorDash the Darnold Hive if he finished that comeback win on Sunday, which he did.

So, Chipotle, please.

That would be great.

I was very happy about that.

About that, that coming in.

And you're still welcome in.

It's not too late.

Do you want to join us?

Come on, come on, come on.

No, it's going to take me a little bit still.

However, I do think the last couple of weeks, though, he has made some big boy throws, win or lose.

I've always been winning, but the throws he's been making late have been just really good.

And him and Kevin O'Connell are really dialed in.

That's been really impressive to watch.

Can I ask a question visually?

So you're, let me get this straight because that text kind of threw me about the DoorDash.

So you're sending like a Chipotle burrito into

the structure of a beehive?

Is that, is that?

No, no, when I sent that, I meant that I would support the business by ordering some food from there

if he had completed.

I won't.

I saw

we're getting a burrito from a beehive.

I'm trying to

figure this out, but

I saw it as like the hive is growing as it becomes more powerful, and it's gotten to the point where you could just send a delivery guy in there.

Now, does the delivery guy get out?

Probably not, but like the burritos get in, and that's a good thing.

Well, that's a good thing.

The game I cannot wait to watch.

The number 11 Seattle Seahawks in the Heat the Call Power rankings traveling to the desert to face the number 13 Arizona Cardinals.

Love it.

Like this game.

It's juicy.

And you got Iron Eagle and Charles Davis, two of our favorites on the call.

You know,

Mike,

you know, I'm sure.

I'm sure you know better than anyone.

The Seahawks fans, very passionate, great fan base.

That building is as loud and as energetic as any in the world.

The loudest stadium I've ever been in.

I was down on the field for the first game after they won the Super Bowl in 14, the Thursday night opener against the Packers.

And I've never been in a louder place in my life.

So I say that with respect for Seattle fans.

They're also a very sensitive bunch, and they are always in their feelings and believing that they don't get enough credit and this and that.

And when I made the mistake, I guess, on Sunday of saying I wasn't impressed at all with their win against the Jets,

I got criticism for that.

But I stand by it.

Like, I watched that game, and I'm like, man, if they weren't playing the team, the one team in the NFL that more than any other team in the league just blows games and invents ways to lose games.

Seattle goes to the East Coast and gets their ass kicked by a team with three wins entering the game, and

they're good enough to,

when a gift is offered to them, they say, okay, we'll take the gift, which was that game, but I need to see them play a lot better than they did on Sunday.

And one thing to point out specifically is Gino, who's having, I think, a good year on balance, and he's been the answer quarterback.

And they did a nice job identifying him ultimately when a lot of people, myself included, didn't think he could be a long-term answer.

But they got to protect him better.

Like, I don't feel like he's getting enough time, and he's taking hits.

The Jets got to him on Sunday, and if you take Geno out of this offense, they have no chance at all.

So, can the pass rush or can the line hold up and allow Geno to pick apart the Cardinals?

And obviously, on the Arizona side, can they start scoring points again?

Yeah, you're right, Dan.

The Jets, if you didn't know either team's record going into the game, by the fourth quarter, you were like, oh, the green team is probably bad.

You know, because they were just give, there were three fourth downs in a row in the fourth quarter while the Jets had the lead that the defense committed penalties.

Like that was crazy.

Fourth and sixth, they had too many men on the field, fourth and one, DPI, fourth and one, horse collar.

And eventually the Seahawks went and took the lead.

When the punter was hurt, by the way, Mike, and they had too many men on the field because the punt returner is on the other end of the field and there's no communication.

It's just that, let's just move on.

Go ahead.

Yeah, no, it was bad.

But I do think there is something to be said for just...

Pete Carroll used to say this a lot.

Just do right longer than the other guys.

You know, that was kind of one of his philosophies.

And that game was a good example of that, even though if the Jets were just helping them by doing wrong

longer than the other team.

I do think it's hard to ask much more of Seattle's defense, though.

Since the buy, I believe they're number two in opponent points per drive, I think behind Detroit, and number one in defensive EPA per play.

It's a small sample, it's only three games, but they're starting to look like the defense that was promised when Mike McDonald was hired from Baltimore.

They're just toying with quarterbacks each week.

There's at least

a play or two in each game of the last few weeks wins over the Cardinals, Niners, and Jets, where the other quarterback just clearly doesn't know what's going on.

There were several in the game against Aaron Rodgers, a veteran guy, one of which included him throwing a pick six to a fat man, thick six by Leonard Williams, because he just didn't know what was going on.

He thought he was high.

Leonard Williams is not fat.

Come on.

He's 300 plus.

What are we calling that?

He's a gorgeous athlete, is what he is.

You can be fat and gorgeous for what it's worth.

Thank you very much.

That's fair.

You can be.

But actually, yeah, so I'm much more worried about Seattle's offense.

It just seems a little out of whack.

They had that disgusting goal line series where they just didn't understand that number 95 on the other team is very good.

So

that's Quentin Williams.

So I think they only scored 16 points, or excuse me, 10 points on offense in their win over the Cardinals a couple weeks ago.

So if the Seahawks are going to win this, which I'm still torn on whether they will, it really is going to come down to their offense kind of getting its head out of its butt.

Because while the defense has been so great the last three weeks, the offense has just kind of been skating by, and that's hard to do consistently against teams that aren't the jets there's a couple games this week where the teams divisional teams just met cleveland pittsburgh seattle arizona they just met you know 14 days ago and so i i do look back at those matchups and think they matter versus if they had played in week three and they put a ton of pressure on kyler murray seattle did a number of weeks ago five sacks um the thing that really made the difference for me was that james conner who is their engine and when he's running well and he's physical and they're able to run the ball that the way they want to that's when they start to become the Cardinals that you can believe in.

But they held him to 1.1 yards per carry.

They shut down that run game.

And so for me, that's the Mike McDonald defense showing up in a big divisional matchup.

Can they duplicate it?

I think they can.

I'm as pro-Cardinals as it gets, and I'm concerned about this matchup because...

It, to me, translates.

It travels what they did two weeks ago to now.

And if you can get in Kyler Murray's face and cause him to frustration, then you can win a close game because I think it's going to be a tight, low-scoring kind of close affair.

There is no

way to say this that is not going to get clipped or ridiculed.

But the thing that stuck out to me as the difference between the Mike McDonald defense is close to getting to where it needs to be, to it is now what it should be, and it is asserting, is particularly on that defensive line, there's a difference between wrapping and tackling a powerful running back to the ground and penetrating.

And the Seahawks defense

was actually against James Conner and that outstanding rushing attack.

They were penetrating, which, and they were contacting James Conner.

Wagon.

God damn it.

I can't.

I'm going to try to push through.

They contacted James Conner

behind the line of scrimmage on almost 60% of his carries in that game per Next Gen.

So that goes to show it's not just you are technically sound, you are winning the contact point at the line of scrimmage, which is what this defensive line was intended to do between its scheme and the ability of the players up front, which makes the difference to me between a defense that is trying to figure out its identity and a defense that has securely gotten on that track.

And before we move to the next game, not to belabor the point, obviously, Mark, but Cardinals, four-game winning streak, hit their bye.

You got behind them.

In the moment, I said, this is very dangerous, Mark, what you've done, your history.

There's a curse connected to you.

And getting behind teams, they've lost too straight.

I know, you don't even have to acknowledge it, but I know you're very nervous about Sunday because a three-game losing streak, following a four-game winning streak, with the inciting incident being you saying this team is great,

not great for the brand.

It's not great for the brand.

What I'm trying to avoid is like on Sunday when like 14 games are happening at the same time and like Justin's texting the little snarky anti-cardinals.

I don't need it.

I don't need it.

There's too much happening on Sunday.

So it's like, I want to avoid that.

Let him come under the radar.

Silent.

Immense amount of pressure on Mark Zesler's shoulders going into Sunday.

Can I quantify the pressure on Mark's shoulders?

Yeah, go ahead.

With some work from Mark Zeses.

I love talking about this, so go on, Mike.

Yeah.

It's some work from our resident number cruncher, Austin Mach at the Athletic, who does good work.

According to his model,

if the Seahawks win this game, their chances of

going to the playoffs are 66%.

Chances of winning the division are 63%.

With that same result, so Seahawks win, Arizona Cardinals' odds of going to the playoffs drop to 12%,

and their odds of winning the division drop to 10%

if they lose.

So a lot of times.

It's not even going to get out of bed.

No,

I'm shutting out all the distraction and noise.

They're going to get down.

They're going to handle their business.

Although I would say it's one of the

least impactful home home field advantages in the NFL.

So that's a concern for me always with the Cardinals.

You never want to go into the big toaster.

All right, Mark, the game that you cannot,

well, in Mark's defense, there's not a lot on the meat on the bone to get into the dock late as Mark did.

So what is the game that you I don't believe this, but you cannot wait to watch.

Well, so right.

So let's be, yes, let's be real.

Like I have had a pretty good streak, I think three or four weeks in a row where I jumped in the document and got like a high quality game i'm going carolina at philadelphia but i do actually find this intriguing because of that actually right because of who the panthers have been and who bryce young has been and i do wonder like i'm not calling it a trap game because the eagles to me seem pretty impenetrable right now but i do wonder if this is kind of a staple game where dave canales can tell David Tepper up in the booth where he's not spilling drinks on people, hopefully this week, but he can tell

Projecting, like projecting drinks onto people.

But I think this is an opportunity for Dave Canales to say, this is why you hired me.

Like, if we can hang with the Eagles, if we get another good game out of Bryce Young, they really have been a different team.

And I went and looked at their PFF roster, and like, you know, the offensive line has been such a problem for them.

They've got four to five guys in the green right now, which is good for PFF.

It says they're productive, they're handling their business to some degree.

Can you hold off like guys like Jalen Carter, who plays every snap, every game, is

completely disruptive, and keep this going?

Because I think the Panthers suddenly, their entire experience and who they are has

shifted.

They were going to go draft a quarterback, want to trade the quarterback, now he's playing well, you can add a pieces around him.

Or is this just a game where a bully, the Eagles, who have turned into a complete second half bully, unleash Saquon Barkley.

It's another chapter in his MVP, potential MVP campaign, and they blow the doors doors off Carolina and bring them back to earth.

It does interest me from that angle because I think we've seen a completely different Panthers team.

This is not just an acid test.

This might be the best team in the NFC in terms of health, how they're playing right now, how they're playing in the second half.

How does Carolina stack up?

What does Dave Canalis do?

What advantage does he bring?

Yes, it's not the greatest game of the season, but I do want to watch it.

I do want to see what happens.

I hear what you're saying.

I hear where you're going on it.

And if the Eagles romp, it doesn't teach me much more than I already know about the Eagles.

But if Jordan, the team used to cover the Panthers, if they either hang tight in this game, like for instance, the Desert doesn't think anybody's hanging here because they have it at 12.5, the biggest spread of the week.

But like if Carolina keeps this thing within a score or God shocks the world and wins, it's like all of a sudden, I mean,

this would be a major, major moment for the organization because I think a win in this spot, for instance, would like lock up the idea of we're getting behind the quarterback moving forward.

So there are big stakes for the Panthers if they can, you know, ball out.

You know, and bear with me here because I know what I'm about to say sounds totally nuts, but Bryce Young is actually the prototypical quarterback to best work against this Fangio defense.

This is the type of problem-solving, quick throw, underneath guy who can still cut up the seam, you know, against the too high shell, if that's what's presented to him, who can problem-solve some of the coverages.

Like, we weren't, if this game were going to happen last year, we would see, we would just be like, oh my God, like, hope he's okay, like, hope he lives through this, right?

And he still might get the shit kicked out of him.

He still might get hassled up for, you know, all of these things that we have seen the Panthers allow in the past couple of years still might happen.

But the difference right now is that Bryce Young is playing with confidence.

He understands what he's seeing and he trusts what he's seeing.

He is reading the field really well.

He is seeing mixed coverages, different types of things really well.

And he's playing like a quarterback where I think you could really learn something.

Even if the Panthers lose, which every, I think everybody expects them to, and it'd be really cool to see an upset.

You know, I love what the Eagles are doing, but it would be cool to see like, you know, David slaying Goliath kind of a thing.

However, if we're going to go with logic and reason, really what I think is the coolest thing about this game is watching Bryce Young grow in real time through something that you know is not going to fatally destroy his brain because he's not there anymore.

He's not in that place anymore.

And I just think that's awesome.

And I love that for him.

And I can't wait to see how he assesses what is going on across from him and how he sort of picks his way through all of the things that Vic Fangio and Joe Casper and Christian Parker, Clint Hurt, are going to throw at him between the first level of the defense and the back.

I would say the fly in the ointment here is that the Panthers, for all the optimism, have the worst run defense in the league.

So that's the best.

Bryce going to get a possession.

Let's see.

Mike, anything on this one?

Yeah, Mark said something I hadn't really thought about was the idea of how well

of Bryce playing well enough so that they don't have to draft a quarterback.

And I kind of hadn't thought about that till just now

because he is playing better, though that's relative to him being just awful beforehand.

So that's

now I'm just pondering that.

Like, how well would Bryce have to play for the final however many games for you to go into the draft being like, all right, we're good.

We don't don't need Cam Ward or Chadour or whoever,

Quinn, or whoever's eligible, you know.

That's interesting.

I think right now, I would probably still take a guy.

This game, I think, will say a lot in terms of measuring that because he has played well, but

this is set up for some regression here.

This defense is built in a way, like they're so good up the middle on the D line, which is how they gave Lamar and them some trouble too.

And Bryce, his height, his weight, like is this is the type of game where I can just picture Jalen Carter body slamming him or something.

You know, I hope he plays well.

But yeah, that's an interesting one to think about.

You know, how well does he have to play to kind of keep his job in Carolina?

I'll quote Aaron Boone.

It's all in front of him.

I think if he finishes with some quality performances, basically continues to play like he has the last few weeks,

I think the Panthers would be crazy.

I mean, in general, I think the way the league now is...

I think we're there.

I don't think they're picking up.

Well, you could always, like, he could always tank again, and then

you have to have that conversation.

But I think if he just finishes at this level, I mean, that drive that could have been the game-winning drive

really was an eye-opener for me, the way he handled himself and how much more comfortable he is in the pocket and how his accuracy is back.

We're not seeing the jump throws anymore.

If he can just kind of finish at a similar level.

The league is so handsy to just get out of these quarterback picks.

Now, give the kid a third year.

Last year was a disaster, but the team was absolutely brutal and all the drama around him.

Give him a second year with Canales and see what he does.

But, you know, again, you have a, as someone who knows, bad owners make bad decisions and teams stay bad as a result.

I could absolutely see them parachuting out of the young era, but I think that would be premature, unless he really craters here.

But you know what?

Changes it a little bit here, especially just knowing the owner a little bit, and just like I think that this is actually a factor here in this decision-making process.

Is like other teams want Bryce.

You know, other teams, when he was potentially on the trade block, other teams were talking about what it would cost or what it would take to bring him in and try to be the guy who fixes the guy, right?

Whichever way you can do that.

And why, Jordan?

Every NFL quarterback wants that.

Excuse me.

Why are other teams interested in Bryce Young?

Why is that so?

Because they see how he processes the game, how he has the arm capability and the talent, and they saw the destruction of talent and complete like quicksand around him.

Exactly.

But also,

and how that compounded for him as well.

So other team, I'm just saying, this is the ego of the league.

They see a quarterback who's struggling, who has some, first of all, intangibles that are great, and then also a physical skill set despite a very diminutive size and frame, and that's a problem, but that's fixable within some offenses.

You're seeing it with Baker, who is stockier, but not a lot taller.

I mean, hell, Matthew Stafford is not a lot taller than Bryce Young, person to person.

He's just built, they're just built differently, hands, feet, like, you know, just structure, frame, all of that stuff.

But, you know, you're, you're looking at these teams who think that they can fix the guy and they're making the phone call.

What would it take?

And there's enough buzz about, okay, let's think about really, really long and hard to think about.

Would we really want to watch someone else potentially fix this quarterback or do we think we can fix this quarterback?

And I think they can.

And I don't think he needed a hell of a lot.

It just needed a reset.

Like, I don't think he, I think he has the skill set.

I think he has over the last couple of weeks.

I've been watching his tape and like, I'm the way he's seeing the field, he trusts what he sees.

That was the biggest thing for me.

He trusts what he sees.

And if you can get your pocket moved, if you have more outlets that you're trusting, that your coaching staff is building in, you have more hot reads against pressure, you have different things, they're learning as they go.

And these things now exist within this offense, as does his confidence and trust with what he sees.

So I don't think he needs to show them as long as he doesn't crater over the last couple games, obviously.

But I don't think, he has showed them that he is on a positive track forward, as is this coaching staff, in my opinion.

I'm rooting for the kid.

Let's go.

Finish strong.

All right, one more before we uh uh hit the break.

Uh, Mike, what can you like?

Like, you just lay in bed.

Like, remember when you were seven years old on Christmas Eve, you cannot fall asleep because you know the big man's coming down the chimney.

And for Mike Dugar, when he that is the same situation, when he thinks about

what

Wow, that is a lot.

That's something to set up.

Yeah, I don't know if I felt that way Christmas too much, but you know what gave me that feeling was the first day of school.

I was a big first day of school.

Yeah, that was a tough one, too.

I couldn't sleep the day before the first day of school.

Even my first day of college, I remember that.

Anyway,

tough.

So this week, my can't wait for the first day of school game is the Cleveland Marks Cleveland Browns at the Pittsburgh Steelers, who are number six in the power rankings of record.

So So this is weird.

I can't believe no one picked Bill's Rams.

Anyway, but I like this game.

I just have grown to just like more AFC North wall this year.

Pretty much every time I watch an AFC North game, it's entertaining.

The last time these two teams played, it was pretty much every other game in the division.

I want to use this time a little bit, though, to talk about Danger Russ Wilson.

Man, he is cooking.

No pun intended with the Let Russ cook thing.

Their offense is still statistically kind of just average since he uh has been the starter but russ is killing it uh top i think number two in yards per attempt uh touchdown rates really high drop back epa like nerd stats and non-nerd stats uh he's killing it i mean he took advantage of a bad bangles defense this last week which is how they put up a gazillion points but when just watching it my other takeaway besides the bengals defense being bad uh is russ is like He has all the answers to the problems in ways that I didn't think he really would.

Like when they cover zeroed him, when they dropped eight, when they rotated their safeties, when they were in cover three, trying to take away some of the check downs to Najee, when they went too high to take away the moon balls to George Pickens.

Like he just had an answer for everything, which is why he threw for a bazillion yards.

I don't think the Browns, excuse me, the Steelers can keep winning like that.

But the fact that they kind of have that, it's essentially a curveball a little bit to their fastball of like winning Tomlin ball to me.

Like, hey, if we need to score points, we can.

That makes them a lot more dangerous, I think, in the big picture.

Dangerous.

Dangerous.

Yeah, that's good.

That's good.

You know, so

I like them.

I like this game to see if they can, I want to see them do that again against this Browns defense, which like isn't good, but is like feisty in these AFC North matchups.

You know, and then we get in this game, Miles Garrett and TJ Watt round two.

And I love the talk that Miles Garrett had the last time they played.

He basically was like, TJ, you stink.

I'm that dude.

So I like to see that again.

And also, just one last matchup thing.

Denzel Ward, and shout out to defenders in this league.

Denzel Ward is playing at a crazy level.

I think he has like 19 to 20 passes defense, which is nuts through how many games they have.

Not a lot of picks, but he is killing it as well.

You know, if George Pickens doesn't get thrown out for like.

pouring a beer on someone at the kickoff, then I think him and Denzel is going to be a like must-see TV in terms of an individual matchup, too.

So yeah, this is my lay the clothes out on the bed.

Can't get any sleep because I want to watch Dangerous

get round two with Cleveland because now I'm like an AFC North Ball junkie

season.

Yeah, the Browns deserve the benefit of the doubt after what we've seen from the last couple weeks.

Yeah, I used to do the

you would first day of school the night before you would have the shirt, always fresh stuff, always for me from Marshalls, the discount department store, I would go with mom and I would pick out.

So I'd get the new shirt and that would be hanging on the dresser and then with like a pair of pants like sweatpants until about eighth grade and I was like okay we got to say goodbye to sweatpants and then I have I'd have Nikes brand new Nikes not Nike air but like Marshalls would have like a nice pair of regular Nikes and then that would be my first day of school and I just lay looking at them thinking about wow you're gonna look so awesome well you got to and that that's back in the days like you're not able to drive and so like you haven't seen um like a girl in three months like like and so everyone like looks different they look older like you got to go social media Like, you must have

been in another dimension.

No, you're like,

you're like watching He-Man in your basement all summer.

Like, there's no, um, there's no life happening for the most part.

So, and that's when you're ready for the summer to end.

But, like, I thought also the thing that I was, like, I loved was like the school supplies, where I'd go convince my mom that I needed like way more school supplies than I ever actually used.

I've got like a whole new like trapper keeper.

I've got like pencils and pens.

And, like, somehow I convinced her to get like a gigantic 24-set of color markers that never even leave the house and are never used for a school project.

So yeah, you've got to use it to your advantage.

And I'm with you.

First day of school was massive.

As far as this game goes, first of all, shout out to the game.

Oh, yeah, the game.

Yeah, shout out to Russell Wilson

because the football cognizante

had written off Wilson at a biblical level over the last couple of years.

And

to go from where he was in terms of

general opinion of him as being completely washed with a fork sticking out of his back to being a guy that is leading the attack of one of the best teams in the AFC is quite a story.

And I know I think they changed,

ironically, they changed the

after the embarrassment of Joe Flacco over DeMar Hamelin last year.

They changed the rules of the comeback player of the year.

So I don't think Russ is even eligible, but he is the comeback player of the year because of where he was with the narrative around him, straight up his production and how he started to bounce around the league.

And now he's a major player.

So shout out to Russ

for doing that.

And, you know, on the Cleveland side, Mark, I was wrong, but in my defense, I didn't look ahead close enough.

I didn't realize the Browns had another primetime game.

So I'm going to now double down on the prediction.

So what the Browns do, they're very fun and entertaining, especially in their building.

But shout out for them going to Denver and being fun and entertaining.

But the Browns' move is just when you think, oh, the Browns actually good, then they play a Sunday afternoon game when not everyone's watching and they lose by 28 points.

And I think we're going to get the Browns that are like, people aren't watching anymore, so we'll go back to being shitty.

That is my prediction this week, and let's see if I'm wrong again.

We'll see.

I love that you brought up Denzel Ward, Mike, because Ward is the type of player who plays really well.

against AFC North teams.

I mean, he's been a terror to Joe Burrow, and I think it translates to the Steelers.

There are some really disturbing Browns' experience nuggets.

They haven't beaten Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh in 20 years.

They haven't swept the Steelers since 1988 when I was a freshman in high school.

So the fact that they already took them down.

That was a long time ago, everybody.

Yeah, I was going to ask, how long ago was that?

I mean, it was back during

just on the heels of the Revolutionary War.

It's like when 90210 decided, oh, we're not going to make it a family show.

It's going to be actually about, we're going to focus on the teens and the high school and less on the parents.

You're almost exactly right about that.

That's when that show took that turn.

There's one little matchup that I am watching because the one and when the Browns were without their tackles,

that's where their season went south in a hurry when they had terrible offensive line protection.

Jack Conklin held TJ Watt to one pressure and no sacks two weeks ago.

Does that translate in Pittsburgh?

Because I think Watt, who's been had a bit of a down year, has started to come on.

Like last week, he's starting to be the TJ Watt who makes these devastating huge plays.

He turned the game against Joe Burrow.

Does he take Jameis Winston out early in this game?

Because I think the one thing, Dan, to your point, the Jameis Winston fun arc, like we're getting the other side of it too, where he's throwing three-plus picks in a game where earlier, you know, early on against the Ravens.

Like those turnover-worthy plays weren't becoming turnovers.

They are now.

So I wonder if this goes south in Pittsburgh where they never win.

Something that also helps TJ Watt out is that they get Alex

Heismith back this week.

So having your rushing partner is going to benefit you because more attention is going to be needed to be distributed along the entirety of the front and not just devoted to TJ Watt.

And Nick Herbig's been excellent too.

So they've got three guys.

Two sound bites before we head to break.

One, and I'm sure you've heard it, but we didn't get a chance to react to it.

So here's Jameis Winston after his

The most Jameis game ever on Monday night talking about his need to purge through the help of the Lord.

I don't know if it's God or the three sons, but somebody to purge pick sixes from his existence.

I know I'm better than this.

I know.

I'm just praying for the Lord to deliver me from pick sixes.

Is it a joke?

I think it's real now.

And then you mentioned it.

It was great sound after the Thursday night Browns Steelers game in the snow.

Miles Garrett going full alpha dog against TJ Watt, who, by the way,

God,

geez, maybe this should be my fearless prediction.

You want to talk about when you give truly great athletes motivation

and you put some, in fact, I'm going to do that.

I'm going to change my fearless prediction.

So remind me, Justin.

They tend to use that and create greatness as a result.

Here's Miles Garrett basically

going full alpha and sticking TJ Watt, of all people, in a locker when talking about who is the man in the NFL.

Who speak tonight and if so, what was said?

I mean, he spoke at the coin toss, but that's about it.

Like I said, I got a lot of respect for him, a lot of respect for

all the guys over there.

And the Edge rush in the league, but I'm number one.

And, you know, that's from Edge Defender one, Edge One to Defensive Player of the Year.

I'm the guy.

So that runs through me.

There's

no other person being offended as I am or skiing or planned against like I am.

So this goes to show: no, you can throw that out the window.

I'm going to find a way.

Wats revenge on Sunday.

God damn.

I love that.

Real quick on the Jameis thing, when I heard the pick sixes, I was like, man, is he close to the record or something like that?

Because he does throw a lot of them.

He's not anywhere close.

But that was in my research, I learned that Brett Favre threw 32 of them.

Oh, my God.

That would have been my guess.

He was back there vibing.

You have a guess?

You kids are young, but Mark and I remember

Brett was such an

incredible quarterback to watch because he was like a like Jameis, but three times as good, but also just as reckless.

So it was, he was quite an adventure.

You had to pass that into every Favre game that you'd get to two killer interceptions, but he'll also throw four touchdowns or five touchdowns, too.

Yeah, I also stumbled upon Favre, and I was looking up thinking Lamar would win MVP for the third time in a row, the last person to do it.

And Favre had done that as well.

Dan, you would have guessed that Favre was number one.

Can you guess who's number two on the list of career pick sixes?

Namath.

He is number four.

Who's number two?

Number two is Matthew Stafford.

Matthew Stafford.

That's

30 of them.

So he is coming for the record.

Favre was the football player he most wanted to be like when he was coming up through college.

Namath surprises me because that's not an era where you threw the ball that much.

So he had

it, though.

Right, he did.

He threw a lot.

He was like 28.

Yeah, he threw a lot.

Wait, so the top four then is give me that top four.

Uh, Favre is one, Stafford is two, and then there's uh three is Marino, and then four is Namath, and then Breeze and Manning are tried are tied at five.

Hall of Fame, yep, Hall of Fame, and then James.

It's also they played long enough to rack up the numbers, too.

Yeah,

yeah, it's not, it's not a percentage, it's a it's a raw number.

I just didn't realize so.

Jameis only has, I think, 14, um, only 14, uh, but I just thought he'd be closer to the record brett farm yeah he's not even 30 yet though right he's

he's got time well i will say one thing about winston he's got winston has 14 games with three picks which is six more than any other player in the league since 2015 so he is prolific in the on the in the interception category yes justin

Jameis Winston's first pass as a Tampa Bay Buccaneer was a pick six, and his last pass as a Tampa Bay Buccaneer was also a pick six.

It's poetic.

Awesome.

Yeah, that was great.

I guess he gets Justin's Titans, I think, on the first one, I believe.

And he would have had another one to close Monday night.

And it actually, we'll get to it because it impacted our fearless prediction section.

He threw one at the goal line in garbage time.

And

just because Jerry Judy had such a brilliant game and he didn't, he said, f that.

I'm not letting this guy celebrate.

And

he did his quarterback a solid and hunted down.

Who was it that had the interception in the final minute there?

It would have have been a pick six.

Former Seahawk Cody Barton.

And Judy, no other reason other than, like, oh, hell no.

We're not getting another pick six.

And then that running up the score on us, tackled from behind

the interceptor of the pass.

And that Barton.

And otherwise, he would have had another one, which would have been, frankly, hilarious.

So he finished with three pick sixes and four touchdowns and almost 500 yards.

A brilliant game all the way around.

Performance art.

Let's take a break.

We'll be right back.

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For our U.S.

audience, only.

All right.

Jordan, just give it a shot.

Maybe it's not as bad as you remember.

The great

health.

You know, a few

couple of months ago, the plan was to work with the graphics team at Underdog to cook up a video to go along with the gravy boat drop.

But then I was like, man, they don't really know me too well yet.

I feel like the wrong impression could be like if I had to lay out the storyboard on that, it felt early in the relationship.

So we might have to wait till next next year for that.

You know what I mean?

Or maybe the next contract.

Yeah,

I think a lot of people who are unfamiliar with the lower of the show

would probably be deeply disturbed by

some

sort of moisture boat situation that's not actually water.

It's another liquid.

So I think, yeah,

it's just not great, man.

It's just not great.

It's the greatest.

I thought you were going to try to trick me again, so I was almost too late getting my headphones out, but I got it done.

I got you.

I got it done.

It's just a matter of time.

Just a matter of Justin and I putting our heads together and figuring out a way to entrap you in the boat.

When I texted Justin my prediction, I was going over some notes in the rundown as well.

I also put parentheses redacted theme when talking about this particular segment.

Here's my promise to you, before the end of this season, Jordan, we're going to get you on that boat.

And the only way to get off the boat is to dive into the gravy.

So you're going to have one choice or the other.

I just want the listener to know this is non-consensual.

It's going down a weird road.

All right, let's get into it.

The gravy boat.

Hit it, Justin.

All right.

We're starting with Bills at Rams.

I usually go chronological for the remaining games for the gravy boat, but this rare, interesting matchup here, I couldn't resist fishing it out.

How about that little little production detail, Mark?

That was good to hear.

Yeah, I think

there's a real mystery around Justin's process, but no longer.

He's uncovered his process for us.

Thank you, Justin.

Thank you very much, Justin.

From the audience, thank you.

You could have seen it live if you were in the dock earlier, but I didn't.

Von Miller revenge game.

Anybody?

The Bills have been rolling.

Winners of seven straight games, scoring over 30 points in their last six.

They're up to number two in the power rankings.

Dan has them number one in the power rankings,

but they won't have the weather advantage this week playing at SoFi.

So it'll be an interesting test against what should be a pretty desperate Rams team fighting to stay in the hunt for the NFC West title.

Oh, I don't know about that, Justin.

The

last couple of days here in LA, I've had to usually leave the doors open of the house.

I've had to close the doors.

And also that the Aqua Marine layer coming in off the mighty Pacific.

You're not wrong.

You know, Jordan,

the Rams at home,

can they win this game?

I think Matthew Stafford has one or two more total berserker psychopath soul-snatching games left in him this season, particularly if they do make the playoffs.

So in that regard, I never rule out a Matthew Stafford-led team.

But this offense has not been able to score.

They were shut out completely by the Saints last week.

They've been shut out,

held without a touchdown in nine of their games this season in the first quarter.

And the slow starts are killing them.

This is not going to feel like a home game either.

The Bills travel extremely well.

The Rams have been on a silent count in almost all of their home games this season because of some of the heavy traveling teams that they have faced.

And Buffalo, it's not just a revenge game for Von Miller, who won a Super Bowl with the Rams, so you can't really call it a revenge game.

He chose to sign up with the Bills.

But Taylor Rapp, who they never pay safeties, and he was one of them.

He's having an outstanding season in Buffalo.

And David Edwards, whose career ended really kind of sadly in LA because he had a pretty bad concussion, but now he's thriving with Buffalo.

And the Bills are rolling in 2022.

I'll never forget this, guys.

In 2022, you know, right after the Rams won the Super Bowl, and they're like booze-soaked, standing on the tops of parade buses and screaming, run it back.

And they re-signed all their old guys, and it was going to happen.

And the Bills came into their building in 2022 and kicked the ever-living shit out of them.

And

to the point, to the point where they were so injured after that game that those injuries never quite stopped.

They compounded over and over and over again, particularly along their offensive line throughout the entire season.

So that memory is very fresh.

They need to run the ball, be physical.

But at the same time, like

this could be either some crazy, freaky, weird Matthew Stafford really like gunslinger game, or it could be a repeat repeat of 2022.

Ironically that was kind of a weather game because I remember, Mark, we attended that one and it was so hot.

It was like 100 degrees near kickoff.

There's a heat wave in LA.

I'll never forget like how many people in the concourse I saw being carried out of the stadium because the way that SoFi Stadium is built, it just kind of traps heat in there.

And humidity.

Yeah,

it was pretty nasty.

You saw adults being carried out of the stadium.

I don't recall that.

Oh, yeah.

You and I walking shoulder to shoulder, Mark, witnessing it.

But you, of course, you cast that out of your mind because it didn't affect you directly.

So

that's exactly how that went down.

All right.

Okay, next.

Next, Bears at 49ers.

You know, in another dimension of the multiverse, this is probably a pivotal game for NFC playoff seeding, but alas, the high expectations both of these teams entered the season with have not come to fruition.

And the 49ers' bad luck continues here as they now have to face a team that should receive a pretty sizable Bersace of bump.

Side note from just from listening to his press conferences, I really like Thomas Brown.

What's he like, Jordan?

Oh, yeah, Mark asked me a couple shows ago just like what it means when the players said they wanted to be coached harder or like what that actually means.

And I think you can you can't quite explain it procedurally unless you're actually there in the building.

But when you hear him speak, you can kind of understand what they were seeking in that change and what personality shift they were seeking in that change.

Thomas Brown is a stickler for details.

He is extremely blunt.

If you mess up, he will tell you, but he'll also give you an answer to fix it.

He is somebody who is very honest about his own shortcomings in terms of where he still needs to learn, where he still needs, who he needs to put around him situationally, those types of things.

You heard him bring up in his press conference without prompting.

Like he also had a hand in the late game fiasco because it was an all-staff situational mismanagement.

And, you know, I just think it's an interesting time because this is a tryout of sorts for him.

And we know with interim head coaches, a lot of times the tryout doesn't actually result in the hire.

And sometimes when it does result in the hire, we've also seen that backfire as well.

The Raiders being the most recent example.

And I, but I think that, you know, the players really respond to him.

And the biggest thing that I keep hearing out of that building is that Caleb Williams really likes being coached by him.

And it is so important when your quarterback and the guy calling the plays and designing the plays, along with the group, the staff, actually likes working with the person and feels like they are developing and getting somewhere with that person.

That's crucial, not just for a rookie quarterback, but for any quarterback.

You're seeing the positives and the negatives of that relationship all across the league this season, right out in the open.

And this is one of those that's skewed toward the positive now.

And I'll just add something on the the San Francisco side, which is: I wonder if Brock Purdy is quietly playing for his Niners' future down the stretch here.

Because I think coming off this season, if the Niners are indeed, it's just not going to happen this year, which I'm now in that camp as well as a lot of people, that there's going to be a lot of soul searching for Kyle Shanahan in that front office about what they want to do going forward and

dedicating a large portion of their salary cap and everything that goes with it to Purdy.

Is that a foregone conclusion?

I wonder if it's not.

So even if they don't have a...

Not good.

They're not feeling good at all.

So I just wonder if

there's something to track there down the stretch.

Next.

Next game.

All right.

As we finish up the gravy boat with four more games, that means we have eight more teams to talk about.

Six of those eight teams make up six of the seven worst ranked teams in the HTC power ranking.

So just a little preface here.

Nice snug.

Maybe fly.

You can turn off the show now, everybody.

No, we haven't gotten to our fearless predictions.

No, don't.

Mark's going to lose another button at the end.

Yeah.

Keep watching.

Stay tuned for Mark Towns.

All right.

Jets at Dolphins.

Miami returns to the comforting warmth and safety of Hard Rock Stadium, now truly facing a do-or-die situation.

And you just know the Jets would love to be the team that closes the door on the Dolphins season.

I also think Mike McDaniel, he kind of needs to put a coaching masterpiece out there this week just to get the media off his back for being too cold last week.

I mean, what a story is going on.

We're too smart for that.

We're too smart for that as football fans.

You don't need to coach a masterpiece to cook up these Jets.

This will not be a competitive game.

The Jets will no-show the way they no-showed in Arizona a few weeks ago.

And Miami will put up over 400 total yards.

And I guess if that means Mike McDaniel is now a genius, people, the basics can see that that way.

But no, this is not the test for Miami, but it will be a win.

Along those same lines,

just this quote, play this quote from Rogers about his uncertain future.

Yeah, I mean, I just redid my house here in Jersey, so

my goal was to play a few more years here, but we'll see.

I'd like to be healthy.

I'd like to end on my feet, and then I'd like to play well, and I'd like

to feel like I'm wanted back.

If not, you know, that's again, I will not be offended.

I won't be upset.

I'll be so thankful either way, whatever happens here.

But, you know, I got to be healthy mentally, physically, and then there's got to be interest on both sides.

And if that's not the case, then I'll look at other options.

But first, I'll think about whether I actually want to play or not.

It usually takes a good, you know, month to get away from it, which I'll do the first month, and then

see what happens.

Mark, I just want to point out there how quickly the power dynamic changes

in our league.

And Rogers went from the toast of the town and just this god amongst men with the Jets Jets to obviously a place of vulnerability where he is giving these type of quotes like saying, yeah, I'd like to be back if they'll have me.

And all the reporting around the Jets is that Woody Johnson is very much ready to cut the cord.

So it's just amazing how quickly things can change.

Well, the power dynamic shifts quickly when you can't play quarterback.

And he's not the guy they signed up for.

And he, to me, looks like

a little bit of it is packed into the fact that I don't perceive Aaron Rodgers to be the kind of quarterback that is getting his body into the primest possible shape in the offseason.

There's a lot of other stuff going on.

There's a lot of other priorities.

And his body looks broken down to me.

And I don't know how you'd ever try to sell this and run this back again.

I think the experience is over.

It's gone terribly.

And it's for Jets fans and you,

it's a horrific nightmare.

based on what you thought you were getting.

And you can't do this again.

You're not bringing him back.

Come on.

Just in fairness to Rogers, or maybe he does really take care of himself in the offseason, but he's 41 with a torn Achilles rapan.

Absolutely.

His body is just breaking down.

Does he strike you as

someone that's thinking about football nonsense?

Can I be real with you?

Like, yes, because he's one of the greatest players who has ever lived.

And I know what you're saying, but it wouldn't, like, I don't doubt that he has, for his entire professional career, like

put the work in to be a great player.

Now, is he potentially distracted in the offseason?

That's certainly possible.

And people are sending me the links to this Netflix show about, like, you know,

plugged in his brain and everything.

I don't know.

Like, I'm probably not going to watch that just because I'm, as all Jets fans are, just disgruntled about how this all played out.

But yeah, I just, he's old.

And he, and Mike, you saw it firsthand, like, the throws that he was missing.

He's just old now.

And

the accuracy has been affected in addition to the mobility.

And yeah, I don't think it's a guy that you bring it back.

You have to kind of turn the page.

It didn't work.

Just didn't work.

You're 1,000% going to watch the doc, by the way.

All Jets fans are because

that's what you guys do.

You wallop in the

middle of it.

We have no choice.

We just live in it.

This is what we were dealt.

This was our birthright.

We were born into it.

My homie watched it the other last night.

He's texting me about it.

He says it stinks.

So anyway, I'll watch it to see.

Real Real quick on the Dolphins.

I do think everything we were talking about, like with Jim Harbaugh and the identity of his team.

Jim,

it all like applies in the other direction with Mike McDaniel.

I do think the worst characteristic of your football team can be that people perceive you as soft, whether you are or not, like the perception part.

I just think, I do think matters because you get people on your own team saying it, like Jordan Brooks, their linebacker.

You get people on the other team saying it, I think Deshaun Elliott and then

I think it was Josh Jacobs maybe on the Packers.

Like, that's terrible.

You do need, maybe not a masterclass, but damn, Mike McDaniel, figure that out because you can't just be soft.

That's you, I'll fire any coach whose team I think is soft because that's, like I said, the worst possible thing.

So I do think his team needs to win in a certain type of way, like run the ball a lot, really beat up on Aaron Rodgers, maybe knock him out of the game, you know, or something like that.

Just like play it tough.

You know, you can't be a soft team in the NFL.

All right, next.

All right, next.

Las Vegas Raiders at Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

What's up, funny, Mark?

I don't know.

One of my favorite parts of the week is Justin transitioning from what he's having to do on his laptop or whatever to this, to the read.

The Raiders came so close to knocking off the Chiefs last week that I actually struggled with where to place them in the power rankings.

It's like they showed some real fight.

They were a botched snap away from beating, you know, one lost team.

What do you mean you struggled?

How long did you struggle for?

Like, how long?

Oh, hours, hours and hours.

But that end-of-game meltdown staring at that Excel sheet, like, where do I put the Las Vegas Raiders?

That end-of-game meltdown is sort of part of what the Antonio Pierce experience has been.

So, you have to factor it in when you're ranking them.

Meanwhile, the Bucs are storming towards taking the NFC South Crown.

Coming back from the dead, it felt like a win here at home would go a long way to helping that cause.

Mike, they got the division were right where they want them now.

They cleared out a three-game deficit in the blink of an eye.

They still don't have the tiebreaker on Atlanta.

But again, Aaron Boone, it's all in front of them.

I do,

yeah, I like where the Bucs are going.

Getting Mike Evans back is helpful, too.

I do think they can give the Falcons a push, though, Justin, I do enjoy your optimism there thinking that they came close to beating the Chiefs.

You're assuming the kicker would have made that.

And in that particular game, there was no guarantee he would have hit what I think would have been 50-plus.

No chance in hell.

No, I think they got it into the 40s.

They had a completion that took him around the 30 before the world exploded.

Okay.

Wherever it was, I don't think there was a chance in hell.

What's his name?

Daniel

Carlson.

I don't think he was hitting that either way.

He was pooping his pants.

You're right.

Yeah, yeah.

He wasn't going to make that.

I enjoy, Justin.

I think Raiders fans would appreciate you taking some time to figure out where to rank them.

But I don't think they came very close.

I think that was setting up for them to do that kick to fall so far wide right or something.

And we'll just be like, yeah, the Chiefs done it again.

Yeah, block, something, botched hold.

There's no way that kick was going through.

The Chiefs just got that type of voodoo on other teams right now.

Other teams that aren't the Bills, obviously.

We're both kind of right.

Third and three at the Kansas City 32 when the fumble occurred.

So

49 yards from that spot.

Just a programming note for the listeners to keep track of, too.

Mike Evans did not practice Wednesday with added a calf injury to that hamstring injury he's already been dealing with so still might play just something to keep an eye on does anybody else have a weird level of anxiety for something that doesn't really affect this in any way uh for his 1,000 yard streak because I think it's how in danger is it I haven't even looked hit me hit me with an Odome Brown Justin Graver I think because he's missed a bunch of games and now he's banged up again

oh he needs a lot he needs a lot he's only at 521 yards so I think that's a full concern yeah it's oh he's not gonna hit that that's not getting no open.

Molly.

Wow.

You endanger.

I'm concerned now, Dan.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, now I have anxiety.

Thanks.

Next.

The next game.

Saints at Giants.

One of the last two games.

One thing for people that don't know, every year Mike Evans has been in the NFL.

He's had at least a thousand yards receiving.

He came into the league like 11 years ago.

It's incredible and

one of the underrated stars of his generation.

Okay.

A little context there, Justin.

Okay.

Saints at Giants.

One of two games in the gravy boat this week, the last two games here that feature both teams being in the bottom seven of the official HTC power ranking.

So you've got Drew Locke making his second start for the G-Men against a pretty bad Saints defense.

It's a classic stoppable force meets movable object conundrum here.

No Taysom Hill for the Saints.

And if we're looking big picture, does this game matter?

I mean, aside from possibly factoring in to to the fate, the future of these two head coaches, like, who do we care about Saints Giants?

Jordan, 30 seconds or less.

Go.

I'm going to read to you guys the words that Giants fans use to describe the

Daniel Jones era in New York, according to our great colleagues at the athletic, Charlotte Carroll and Dan Dugan, who did a survey this week.

Disappointing, failure, frustrating, wasted, pathetic, doomed, pointless, delusional, tragic, mediocre, disastrous, depressing, tepid, farce, ghettoman, ugh, circus, futile, wonky soulless and charlotte carroll's personal favorite pyrite two people used it aka fool's gold five four oh she did it

unbelievable work from the great jordan rodrigue a legend a legend taysome hill out for the year obviously with that acl and multiple other knee issues that sucks uh hit me under all right last one

Last one, Jaguars at Titans.

Trevor Lawrence placed on IR after the nasty concussion he suffered last week as Ezel Shire suspended three games for that hit.

And now Lawrence is also having surgery on his shoulder, so he is out for the season.

Look, Doug Peterson, essentially a dead man walking.

And while the Titans are a bad football team, no denying that, they just got embarrassed last week by Washington.

Look, let's be real.

Will Levis has quietly put together four consecutive good games.

And I kind of feel like Tennessee has no excuse to not go win this game at home against a division rival that might have given up on the season.

Here is a quote from Aziz Al Shair

on social media.

All caps.

If you want me to be your villain, I'll be your villain.

Middle finger emoji.

See you soon.

And then a Joker emoji.

All right.

That's one way to take it.

That's one way to take it.

I like that he's leaning into it.

Like, I mean, from understanding.

I think that, if I could be fair here, I think that's more directed at the verbal abuse and online abuse he's been receiving, not so much the situation.

Well, and his what, though?

And his religion, too.

I think he's getting killed for like

a lot of stuff that it does not have to do with football.

Yeah, so obviously it's an ugly relationship.

Ugly situation, ugly situation all around, but yeah, that was his post this week.

Also, because he's a headhunter, that just ended Trevor Lawrence's season.

Let's not put him in the

great situation to begin with.

It was terrible, but I'm just saying my read of his post specifically, which was what was brought up on the show, was

that to me felt more directed at what he received as a reaction

and pulling at other variables of his life other than the hit.

Dan, to your point, though, I do think it took a turn where suddenly you got like

Tom Brady and everyone else slowly starting to blame Trevor Lawrence

and not look at it for what it looked to the eye.

It just took that natural turn where it's like, we've got to come out from another angle, which is wild that Tom Brady blamed Trevor.

Like, that was wild to me.

That was a wild.

Mark, you're a Z's Al-Shair jersey.

I'm going to get you for Christmas.

Medium?

Is that the size to get it?

Medium, and I'll wear it all

down.

Just medium.

No medium.

Just medium.

All right.

No medium.

Jordan has, she has a press conference.

Oh, no, she has a meeting with the general manager.

How about that?

It's an interview.

It's not a meeting.

We're not discussing.

It's a general manager.

We're not discussing the economy.

We'll be interviewing him.

You guys are discussing there's missing inventory, like paperclips and highlighters have been taken from the

no, it's more like why did you pay $51 million to a player who you are not playing who is healthy?

That's more the nature of the conversation.

That's what a journalist does.

Those are the hard questions.

Who's that player?

Jonah Jackson.

Oh my God.

And you know what?

Les might not like the question, but goddamn, he'll respect it.

He handles it.

He handles stuff pretty well, generally speaking, general managerially speaking.

Okay, well, make sure you tell Les that the heed the call guys said hi because we're just trying to get our names out there in

the discourse, you know, so we're at the number one for everyone.

It's Spotify and 25.

You know what I mean?

Deal.

You're number two behind my sleep podcast.

We're getting there.

We're getting there.

Everybody listens.

Jordan jumps off now, and we'll take it to the finish line without her.

See you, Jay.

Bye, guys.

Bye, Jordan.

All right, let's take a break, and we will hit our money mic portion of the program and our fearless predictions.

Stay right there.

You may have heard by now that Heed the Call with Dan Hansis and Mark Sessler is on Underdog.

So why not start playing on Underdog today?

There are NFL and college football discounts dropping every week, so don't miss out.

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audience only.

We're back.

Oh, look at this.

Now, this is a first.

We got

Danny Boy.

We got the Cess Dog.

We got Money Mike Dugar.

It's a boy's night in.

Buckle up.

All right.

Let's check in on Money Mike and how his week 13

Greg Olson three-legged parlay went.

Mike?

Oh, Justin, what do we got?

We had Pittsburgh plus three.

That's a hit.

By the way.

We also had Baltimore minus three.

Oh, okay.

And Cleveland plus five and a half.

Those did not hit.

No.

The Cleveland one was, you know, the pick six.

Cleveland was so good.

Yeah, Cleveland.

Cleveland with the ball, down two

in the final minutes.

I think down eight, right?

Or I forget which one.

Yes, but that was after the pick six.

They were driving down two with a field board chance to win it.

Oh, to win.

Before the second pick six, it seemed destined that Cleveland would end with the ball in their hands, and somehow they don't even cover.

My God.

See, the third interception, if Njoku catches, or if he, you know, if he just doesn't throw that, they still cover, right?

You know, you know, so that that hurt.

And then Justin Tucker just had no regard for Money Mike this week.

He was like, minus three.

I'll show you minusing three.

I'm going to miss three kicks.

Yeah,

that's

rough, dude.

All right, but that doesn't, that can't save you from the punishment, which, of course, your favorite artist, the singer-songwriter, soft rock legend, sting an artist you adore.

I love Sting.

I love Sting.

Hey, yes, dude.

It was such a frustrating, frustrating week.

Because

when I got to New York, I was looking at parlays and stuff because they have all those out there.

And then, you know, I was sharing some with my fellow degenerates in the degenerate group chat that we have.

And when I got out there, it was cash.

You know,

there were two parlays that were cash.

One of them was a five-leg.

So, I had a good weekend, but not

is your

fortune.

Is your text thread with those guys titled Degeneration X?

Because that would be good.

Oh, that would be good.

No, it's titled, I think it's titled, it's titled Quote, It's a Hobby.

And it has the group chat picture is the Michael Jordan with the sunglasses.

Where's Mike?

Oh, he's down at Atlantic City.

Oh, you might have need to get up there.

The Eastern Conference finals are on.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

All right.

What do you got this week?

You got an Olsen three-leg?

Yes.

Yes, I do.

Let's go with some players this week because teams are having a rough one.

Let's take Armon Ross St.

Brown over 71.5 receiving yards in the Thursday nighter against the Packers.

We'll take Saquon Barkley plus, or excuse me, 100, at least 110 scrimmage yards in the game against the Panthers.

And then we'll take Baker Mayfield over 245.5 passing yards against the Raiders.

G-Reg, seventh-floor boys, three-legger.

Mike Thanks.

Mike Diogara and the seventh floor crew.

Amon Ross St.

Brown has caught 66 of his last 68 targets, so I think that's a solid.

And I think

someone threw some shade at him on the Packers.

I think that would help.

I think it was Xavier McKinney who was just like, we ain't worried about you.

Which got speed.

Yeah.

I mean, he's just one of those, like,

he's one of those, I think he can name all the receivers drafted ahead of him type of guys.

He can, yes, absolutely.

So I think those little slights, like you mentioned, giving a great player motivation.

Great.

Yes, great transition into our fearless predictions for week 14.

Before we share them, let's go over our

week 13 predictions and see how they did.

Starting, Justin, with Money Mike, a non-QB who has not had a three plus TD game in 2024, will score three plus TDs.

Oh,

was it close?

Yes, the final pass that Jameis Dudley got right was to David Njoku.

He would have had his third touchdown.

That was it.

The last pass.

Oh, Mike, I'm pissed.

Man, Mark, you know, I love that Njoku.

Yes, he is a bit of a roller coaster.

Well, he is, yeah, because he's frustrating and then he's dazzling a little bit of both.

He's like, 75% of the time, he's like maybe the best tight end in football and a total game record.

And then like the other 25%, he's basically a man that you could just call Stonehans.

Yeah, he's 65-35, but yeah.

Yeah.

Terry McLaurin also had two touchdowns.

Couldn't get a third.

And then they got in the red zone as well.

Tierry.

Someone else scored.

Yeah.

Terry, are you okay?

That was right there, man.

I think the Jameis pick impacted my prediction and Mark's, I believe, all in one throw.

Yep.

Let's go to that.

Mark, one NFL defense and special teams unit will score three touchdowns.

It came so close.

We've discussed it, but

And again, that was like, you got to live with the good and the bad, right, Mark?

Because Jerry Judy is all of a sudden a key part of the Cleveland future after an amazing breakout game against his old team.

But he also, just for the ah, hell no of it, hunted down Barton on that last Jameis

pick six.

Right.

And I, and the dumbest, the dumbest element to this is that you, the, the group, you and the group willingly tried to get me down to two touchdowns.

We did.

And I, and for some reason, in an act of foolish bravado, suggested, no, it will be three.

And then I would have won.

So Gravedigger nailed his.

We get the highest total game score of the season this week.

Hell yeah.

You almost had two, right?

Pittsburgh, Cincinnati was at 82.

And then, yeah, Denver, Cleveland was in the 70s.

The highest score before the second game was 79.

Near pick six, or Njoku drop almost affected three predictions because wouldn't that have made it?

Yeah.

Okay, interesting.

Jordan, we get a coach or play caller changed by show taping next week.

Who?

Matt Eberflus.

Yes.

Out.

Well done, Jordan.

He's the play caller, too, right?

That's a double whammy.

Double whammy.

Yeah.

And by the way, I am now where Justin Tucker is, where I just go out on the field and I don't feel myself anymore.

I just don't, I have no feel for the game anymore.

Blowout week in the NFL, five games decided by 13 points or more.

And let me just say, Jordan gave me shit for saying 13 instead of 14.

I didn't even come close to this.

I think

there were three.

And also,

someone sent me a tweet that this week had the most games that were decided, like, you know, closely decided.

So, like, I had it on the wrong side of it.

So, I'll just do, I'll spin it moving forward before we sign off.

So, Mike, to your point, you mentioned, you know, giving great players motivation.

TJ Watt against the Browns, multiple sacks, and at least one hand.

He plays a role in the turnover in the game.

And I'm sure that will lead to him having some spicy things to say about where he stands in the pecking order.

But you can't.

He helps generate a turnover.

He doesn't have to cover that.

Okay, that's cool.

That's TJ Watts.

Multiple sacks and generates a turnover, TJ Watt against the Browns.

What do you got, Mark?

I

have that two games will go to overtime

this week, which has not happened, I believe, in a week this season, although I've not researched that.

But

I can tell by your look that you don't love what I've done there.

But I think that's, I think it's tough to do.

I mean, we'll see.

Two overtime games.

Yeah.

It's not, I guess it just, it doesn't light up my Christmas tree, but I'm not going to judge.

I'm trying to grind out a couple victories here before this thing comes to a close.

Mike.

Yeah, I don't think we've had two.

I might might look that up.

Or maybe just

one week.

Two overtime games.

Pinch me.

I think the Titans went into the Titans went into.

Oh, we did have two.

The Rams and Seahawks went into overtime.

I think the same week the Patriots and Titans went into overtime.

I believe that was

humanly possible.

Yes.

To your credit, there's less games this week.

Definitely.

My spine is tingling.

Okay.

My week, I'm going bold.

I'm going bold again.

um let's go the five qbs this was some research i was doing on uh jay herbo uh and lad mcconkey so in honor of the 2020 draft the five qbs from that draft will combine for at least uh 1225 passing yards uh so that's hurts tua burrow herbo and jay love uh they've only hit they've only hit that number once um this year and i think it was one of those weeks that i think herbert had or excuse me uh burrow had like 400 by himself So yeah, I think they'll hit,

yeah, at least 1225 this week.

That's always fun.

In honor of Christmas, I like that.

And Justin, oh, what is Jordans in absentia?

Jordans, we get at least one upset of a single-digit power rank team by a double-digit power rank team.

Okay, so who, what teams would those be?

So we do have two top 10 matchups, TNF tonight, and then Chargers Chiefs, but the non-top 10 matchups would be be Vikings could lose to the Falcons, Eagles could lose to the Panthers, Dealers could lose to the Browns, Rams could beat the Bills, and I believe that's it.

Yes.

And a straight win?

Straight win.

Money line.

One.

Okay.

Money line.

All right, Justin, close it out.

Mine, Dan, we're going to be, we're sort of going to be Lockbros again this week because mine was going to be at least one player has three or more sacks.

So not necessarily Lockbros, but like if TJ Watt has three sacks, we both win this.

Well, he has to fly.

One question.

What if TJ Watt has one and a half sacks?

That counts for you, but not for me.

Okay.

We're up the standings again, because I know I'm buried in last, but I want to see, because there's a trophy involved here.

We've got to probably get going on the production of the trophy, Justin, as we're in December.

So with, and we'll count, this goes through the playoffs?

Yeah, it should, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

We'll go through the playoffs.

As we head into the second week of December, Michael Sean Dugar and the Gravedigger are tied atop the standings at 5-8, which is pretty good for a fearless prediction.

It really is.

Jordan at 4-9,

Sestog at 3-10, and Zuzzer.

By the way, I think I was 2-1 at one point.

You were.

And you were also throwing a lot of shade at myself and others for

not treating the contest in the way that you wanted.

But then look at you now.

Well, yes, I'm a disgrace.

I'm 2-11, but I am treating the contest with dignity, Mark, which is sometimes I wasn't sure if you were even doing that.

But now, for instance, with your pick this week as an example, like you're trying to bank wins now.

Well, I really am, because I think if I move to 4-10 and we can have a slight complaint about the, you know, whatever I cooked up this week, no one's going to remember that when I'm 4-1.

No, nobody will.

It's the record.

I fact-checked the overtime games.

That week, nine-week, there were three overtime games that week.

That's not a week.

so not even something that has, you know, not even unprecedented.

So, less than a week that's already happened, Mark?

Right.

It was the two that I mentioned, and then the Bucs and Chiefs also went overtime that week and on Monday night football.

So, they're going to be able to do it.

Be as displeased with me as you wish, and like, watch how little I care.

You don't want to go up to three?

No, I'm not doing that.

That's what I did last week.

And, you know, I'm not doing that.

No, actually, this week it's the other direction.

No, trying to get you you there.

There's no direction.

Okay.

Planted.

All right, too.

Fair enough.

Fair enough, Mark.

All right.

Thanks for everybody.

Thanks to everybody for watching and listening.

We will be back, Mark and I, tonight,

Thursday night, recapping the great Thursday night showdown between the Lions and Packers.

Reminder, I'll be on Patreon in the live chat.

I don't know where Sessler will be.

I mean, he should be there too, but it's up to him ultimately whether he wants to reach out to the fan base or not.

I don't know.

Mark?

I could be convinced.

I'm not against it.

I just didn't know.

I didn't hear about it until you mentioned it.

So jump on the Patreon, patreon.com slash heed the call, where the live chat will be going on during this game.

And

we'll have some fun over there.

And then, yes, Friday morning, draft Patreon for week 14.

And then Sunday night, the flagship show.

Mike, thank you so much, buddy.

And, you know, maybe, I don't even know, like Seahawks, they go to New York next year.

Maybe we can get Joe's.

I really, because this street pizza you speak of, it sounds sounds like some like hustler that bought some Elios at the local bodega and just threw it in a microwave and then told the guy from Seattle, like, yep, this is New York pizza.

Well,

I did like it.

It was the New York style, it was the thin, right?

That's the.

Not really.

It's not like thin crust.

No, it's it's New York style slice.

It's not thin crust, actually.

That was my first time eating pizza in New York at all, so shit.

A little bit of Michael Scott, you know, going to Sabaro vibe here.

We need to rectify.

Okay, it wasn't that bad.

It was Sabaro.

What I've learned about going to New York is I just got to go a day earlier.

That's what I got to do.

We got to get there just a day before the game is just trying to pack too much in there.

So yes, hopefully they go back next year to play the Giants or something.

Yeah, I hope so too.

All right.

Till next time, heat the call.