Pep Talks for Those Who Need Them (with Jay Gruden & Colt McCoy)

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The Heed the Call podcast

prefers to ride on the back of the motorcycle.

Hands around the belly.

Welcome to the midweek edition of Heed the Call with Dan Hansis and Mark Sessler.

Another show, another week as we start to turn towards week 14 in the NFL, and we'll hit the Thursday night preview at the end of the show.

But before we get into that, and how are you, Mark?

I'm good.

I'm a little disturbed by the Zumlalt read.

I feel like most of his hint at

lack of sort of masculinity

on our parts.

I mean,

who's riding the front of the motorcycle?

A strong strapping John Wayne type is how I picture it.

And then you wearing a floral shirt.

No, no, no.

You're also fingers on the side.

It's not just about me.

This is you.

You're on the back of the said motorcycle, too.

Or the little sidecar.

Hey, guys, before we get into the show, Justin, please jump in for a second here.

I don't want to be, you know, that guy, but we're having company.

Colt McCoy and Jay Gruden will be joining us in just a bit.

Right.

And I understand that that matters a lot to both of you.

The cult of it all, shall we say.

But let's just comport ourselves with respect for both our guests and each other.

Justin.

Let's try not to spam Mark with mark drops

to try to get him discombobulated in front of cult.

Mark, let's not, cut down Justin at the knees and put him in his place, as it were,

to assert dominance, to be in the front of the motorcycle, as it were.

Let's be kind and loving toward each other.

And I think Colt will like both of you more as a result.

I'll just leave it there.

I vow to attempt what you just said.

And I also think that, like, you know, a lot of that gushed out during the dinner we had, and we hadn't really heard from Colt since.

So I don't know if that was pleasing to him.

So, I don't know if we want to go down that road full bore.

Justin, would you agree?

I would agree.

I'm very excited to hear what Colt thinks of Texas winning that game against AM last week.

No, stop.

Okay.

No, we're not going to do that.

That's exactly what we're talking about.

We're not doing some D1 deep dive like that.

You save it for the Justin Graver University of Texas power hour.

What we're doing here is we're focusing on our task at hand.

And again, dignity and respect for each other is the most important thing.

I'm glad we had this talk.

I concur.

That's going to be fun.

Before we do welcome in Cult and Jay, QB and coach,

let us check in the power rankings.

The Heed the Call power rankings, Mark, are up, the latest edition.

And look at that.

Because you know what, this week, I thought

there feels like there's eight real contenders for the Super Bowl right now.

Famous last words, and I'm going to ask you, Mark, your thoughts on who could kind of sneak into that conversation.

But the top eight in our power rankings really feel like we have the two Super Bowl teams here.

Famous last words on December 3rd.

People have uttered things like this many times before.

And as a power rankings

expert, I like to imagine myself foolish of me to even make these comments because so much can change between now and a month from now, even.

However, Lions, Bills, Eagles, Chiefs, Vikings, Steelers, Packers, Ravens.

If you're listening to this podcast and you're a fan of one of those teams, I feel like you have a very good chance of punching your ticket for New Orleans come February.

How do you say, Sestog?

I agree because I looked at the tier below, and it's a stretch for me.

Something, one of those teams would need to grow in a way that we don't, at this point in the season, you're not expecting that.

I'm looking, we all seem to agree.

If you look at our, we're all, we all have these teams one through eight, almost in identical fashion, a little bit more.

One notable difference at the very top, Mark.

I really wrestled with this, but for the first time in I would say five weeks, I have dipped the Lions out of number one, and I bumped the Bills up to, I think, the number one team in the power rankings where they're at right now, where the Lions are at, which is still winning, but continuing to

build battle damage on the defensive side of the ball.

I just think the Bills are in a little bit of a stronger place in the here and now, but it was very close.

I was the only one of the four to drop the Lions out, but they still aggregate-wise come out on top.

I think it shows,

you know, you've done this, you worked on this project for years at our previous stop, and I think it's good.

It's good marketing.

It's like when they send these things out on social, you know, there's a change at the top.

Dan Hansis has ushered in a change, and it's going to get a lot of clicks.

But I also think we're going to talk about the Lions later today on our TNF preview.

And I think there's some reasons for what you did, too, that, you know,

looking at the whole roster right now, there's some concerns.

Yeah, and the Lions v.

Packers, so the number one versus number seven team in an otherwise milquetoast week 14, at least the way the schedule looks

from our perspective right now, you have another hammer drop of a primetime game, and hopefully it lives up to the billing.

And quite frankly, and

we have not been afraid.

There's no reason to be afraid anymore, quite honestly, full disclosure, but we have come down hard at times on the NFL's schedule, the primetime schedule, specifically the Thursday night schedule in past years, even the Monday night schedule, which used to be the jewel of the schedule for the NFL.

And that, of course, has shifted to Sunday night.

This year, they obviously, and money talks, and there's a big reason why these games have gotten better, the Monday night games, the Thursday night schedule.

We've gotten a lot of good primetime football.

Your Brownies have been a central part of that the last couple of weeks.

And here we go again with another big time Thursday matchup, again, which we're going to preview after our segment today with Jay and Colt.

Yeah, I mean, we, I've loved doing the draft each week, and it's the four of us along with Conroe, we're competitive over, we want to get the right games.

Looking, I think I texted you guys looking at this week's slate, like everything you just diagnosed is happening this Sunday.

And so that doesn't mean they won't be great games, but it's not like, wow, this is a clear one, two, three situation game-wise, but that's okay.

There's something we haven't had too many of those weeks.

Okay, as I understand it, I'm hearing that Jay and Colt are entering into the backstage area here at Heed the Call.

So, just a reminder, again,

everybody be nice to each other.

We want to impress the company.

This is a college football legend,

a quarterback in Colt McCoy that had a really strong, consistent, highly regarded career in the NFL.

And Jay Gruden, who succeeded at all levels of the game as a head head coach.

So

let's impress them.

You know what I mean?

It's a good idea.

It's a good idea.

All right.

Justin, let's welcome him in.

All right, here we go.

Some underdog teammates.

So, what a team we got at Underdog.

And joining us for the first time on Heed the Call, it is the stars of the Clean Pocket podcast.

Coach Jay Gruden, quarterback Colt McCoy.

What's up, guys?

Welcome to Heed the Call.

How you guys doing?

Doing great.

Thanks, guys.

It's a great honor to be on this show, man.

I never thought I'd make it this far.

I'm sure.

We haven't seen each other since the great dinner of early September when Jay said I was wearing too much cologne in the elevator.

And our producer, Gravedigger, got lost in the lavatory during our trip to the steakhouse.

And Colt showed the leadership that he has possessed since he was a youth when he had the entire table enraptured by one of his stories during dinner.

So it's good to get us all back together again.

And Justin was telling us all

his thoughts on Texas football and

he's got more.

He's got more.

We are.

We made it.

Can you believe it?

We did it.

Oh, my God.

By the way, we're about to whoop Georgia.

Don't get it.

All right, like this.

Justin is also, of course, wearing his UT

shirt right now.

So he is ready for this, and we're ready for this.

And I think this is important what we're doing here today, because you guys i know you guys are you know the x's and o's uh as well as anybody uh but you know heed the call is about the heart and it's about communicating and it's about seeing uh seeing these men uh not as just players or interchangeable parts but as true people and uh that's why we're gonna do a segment uh called pep talks for those who need them

jay what do you think what do you think about this segment are you into it where were you guys

Where were you guys when I needed my pep talk?

No, it's fair.

It's fair.

We did you wrong.

I could have been on your show like 14 weeks in a row.

Hell, we, yeah, we

haven't.

We've done this segment before.

It's certainly possible during your Washington days.

We might have done a pep talk to Jay Gruden.

I'm not even sure, but maybe it didn't get through, and that's a bummer in retrospect.

That's a great idea.

I like that.

All right.

Let's get into it.

Mark Sessler is going to get us going.

Mark, who are you going to give a pep talk to today?

Right.

So we talked about it being, it can be an individual, it can be an idea.

I'm going to address an entire team.

I grew up a Browns fan, but I have a pet team, the Arizona Cardinals.

And, you know, before the season, I was pumping them up and at various junctures during this year when I thought that they really started to show promise.

I've maybe said too much on this show, and I'm catching a lot of flack, but I want to talk to the entire team.

I'm going to be in that room, the whole group, the whole team sitting together.

Colt, you've been in that room below.

Here we go.

Here we go.

Not all of you need a pep talk.

You don't need an ex-blogger telling you how the world works.

You've been in your share of fights, and you're in one right now as a group.

So I'm talking to the entire team, because that's what you need to be at this hour, United.

We have Justin the producer over here texting the group chat on Sundays saying that I cursed you because I picked you to make the playoffs.

because I said you had something inside of you that could shake a dead public, that you could even reach the NFC title game.

I have Cardinals Super fan Jason Zumwalt asking, why did you side with my team?

You cursed them.

Two straight defeats, nail biters to the Seahawks and Vikings.

Here's my answer to everyone.

Stick your curse up your butt.

I still see a team ready to bite someone's face.

I see a team built to bludgeon.

Any whisper of doubt, we're putting that to bed right now.

Doubt, creeping concerns, self-sabotage, imposter syndrome, all those phantoms.

We're tucking those into bed.

And we're setting that bed on fire.

And we're throwing that burning bed at a 10-story window onto a moving pickup truck.

The truck burns north up the coast.

It's going roughly 150 miles an hour with a flaming bed in the back.

Concerning, but the highway patrol doesn't even bother to chase it.

He's going too fast, sir, cop one says.

You got that right, says cop number two.

Besides, we just bought these coffees.

The law will have to wait.

That's right, sir.

The stiff arm of the law is only so long.

The truck rips into Washington State and barrels at max speed, totally on fire, into the belly of the Seahawks training facility at 3.12 a.m.

Nobody is there to see the building detonate, thankfully, into a thousand pieces, only by dawn to players and coaches learn of the incredible wreckage.

To be fair, it's not unlike the tactics we used in Beirut, 82, when we shot a fully loaded armory vehicle into the front door of the Iranian embassy.

That sent a clear message to groups we'll categorize as problematic.

That's the message you send this Sunday to the Seattle Seahawks.

You get back to seven and six, then the Patriots, then the Panthers, then the Little Rams, then the haughty-totty Niners.

Bang, you're in the NFC playoffs.

There are people in this world who don't know where they'll sleep tonight.

Some are heartbroken.

Many are lost.

There are men who can't find work, can't keep a job, but you have a job.

The Arizona Cardinals have a job, and it begins this very moment.

Seacrest out.

I know where they're not sleeping in that bed that's on fire.

Not that 10-story truck.

Where did you find a 10-story truck?

Well, threw it out of a 10-story window onto a truck moving

along the road.

I thought you said you threw it onto a 10-story truck.

Yeah, you've given motivational speeches in some form or another throughout your career.

How do you think that would go over in the Arizona Cardinals locker room?

You know, I think there'd be a couple people entertained by that.

A couple people would be looking at their cell phone, looking at their watches, ready to go.

But, you know, know, all you got to do is touch one guy, and that's what makes it a good speech.

I think.

And, yeah, hopefully maybe the quarterback, someone that can make a real difference in the game.

Colt, what do you, like, so just so you know, by way of background,

and yeah, by way of background, that's typically how a Mark Sessler monologue goes.

So don't be alarmed.

That's just, that's how the show works typically.

But Mark has a habit in the years that we've done the show of getting behind a team and then that team immediately cratering.

And we've started to think that there's a voodoo curse involved with Mark and his

premonitions that turn into ominous death purveyors.

But what do you see with your old team, the Cardinals, Colt?

Do you think they have it in them to make the run perhaps deepen the playoffs like Mark foresees?

Yeah, listen, I mean.

I didn't know if I was supposed to laugh or if I was supposed to be serious or I was supposed to take that.

But I'm with you.

I don't think the Cardinals are cursed yet.

I mean, they're 6-6.

They're not in a bad position.

They got some very winnable games coming up.

I think Kyler's playing really good football.

And I think their defense is everybody thought they were suspect all year long.

They've been keeping them in games every week.

And so

when they play the Seahawks,

I played there for three years.

You normally win in Seattle or lose in Seattle

or vice versa.

You go up there and beat them, and then you lose at home.

Maybe it changes this this year.

If they can beat Seattle, I think they got everything in front of them.

That's a big game for them this week.

Yeah, and just to be clear, Colt, yes, the Arizona Cardinals are 6-6, but they're 0-2 since Mark got behind them as his hobby horse.

So that's important.

Close, guys.

Yeah.

No, listen, I don't believe in Jinxes.

Come on, man.

You just got to strap it up and go play.

You know what I mean?

The Cardinals should know that me and Cecily are behind them all the way.

That's some QB1 shit.

Were you a Redskin fan of 2020 there, there, Mark?

Son of a camera.

No, I can't.

Again, I'm with cults.

I don't believe in the Jinxes, and so I wasn't.

I can't be blamed for that.

We might have to check the tape, though.

Coach, your turn.

It's time to really give someone a pep talk who truly needs it.

Me?

Yeah.

That's a tough act to follow.

Mine's going to be Matt Eberflus.

You know, I've been with you, Matt.

It's not easy.

It's not easy getting fired midseason.

I got fired after five games with the Washington Redskins.

It's not easy.

I'll tell you what is easy, though.

Going to get a tea time at 12 o'clock on Tuesday.

That's easy.

Enjoying yourself on the beach.

Maybe even having a little happy hour cocktail once.

You know, just watch TV.

Hang out with your kids.

Hang out with your grandkids.

Hang out with your wife.

Enjoy life.

There is more to life, Matt,

than calling timeouts with 38 seconds to go.

I promise you that.

And, by golly, you are a great coach.

I'm telling you, I tried to hire you once.

You were linebacker coach with the Cowboys, passing game coach coordinator with the Cowboys, defensive coordinator with the Bengals or the Colts, and then head coach with the Bears.

A lot of people will be after you next year, I promise you that.

But in the meantime, for God's sakes, let it go.

Enjoy yourself.

Enjoy your life.

Play some golf and have some damn fun because you are one hell of a coach.

I like that.

I like that a lot, Jay.

And again, like in all seriousness, like the human side of it is someone who's been through that.

When it happens, when you get let go in season, do you like, how do you cope with that?

Do you would you keep tabs on the team or would you disconnect entirely?

There was a strange thing that happened around the Jets because they're the Jets, which is my team, sadly.

But like, after

the owner stepped in and fired Sala, Sala and Nate Ulbricht, the intern, were

regularly in conversation,

at least in the weeks after that, which struck me as odd considering the guy that he was seeking some type of counsel from was fired for not doing his job good enough in the eyes of the owner.

Where was your headspace at when you were in a similar position?

Well,

they treated me like an outlaw.

That guy came in and robbed the place and threw me in jail and kicked me out of the building.

I mean, I didn't get a chance to say bye to anybody.

Then the next coach, he treated me like I was like the biggest scumbag in America and saying we had poor practices.

And hey, look at now, we know how to practice like NFL players.

You know, they get treated very well at the end, you know, and deservedly so.

We weren't very good, but

a lot of bitter feelings I have towards the way it ended.

I should have been able to shake hands with Colt McCoy and some of the players and say thanks for the opportunity, or thanks for the effort you guys gave me throughout my tenure, shake hands with some of the assistant coaches that I hired, shake hands with my trainers and my strength coaches.

And unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to do that.

I had to do it by text.

It's really nice.

Yeah, Mark and I can relate to that with some things that went down with us this summer.

Colt, what's it like on the other side when you're in the locker room and that happens?

It seems like the emotional fallout could be pretty big.

You grow so close to a coach many times, right?

Yeah, it was terrible.

I mean, as a player, you hate to see it.

We all reached out to Jay.

It wasn't Jay's fault.

It was collective.

We didn't play good enough.

And to have

a different coach come in and try to motivate you and tell you what you should and shouldn't do, and we're going to do it this way because we didn't do it right before.

I mean, he basically lost the team when he started doing that.

I mean,

it was just, you know,

it was chaos, you know, and it's not like we went out there and did anything better or special.

We played the Miami Dolphins the next week who hadn't won a game, and we won, barely, right?

That's about it.

So, you know, it's hard for everybody.

It's hard on families.

It's hard on

coaches.

It's hard on the coaches that Jay hired to bring in because they know that they're probably, you know, they're looking for their next job.

It's just, it's a mess.

And the Bears are going through right now, as, you know, it happens every year.

And, and, you know, it's just, it's, it's part of the business, but

like you mentioned at the beginning of the show,

these people are real people, and they've got

real families, and they give their best effort.

And when it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

And

we all understand that, but it's always hard to go through a coaching change right in the middle of the season.

And here's the, I guess, the upside, Jay, right, is when you get that, you get the pink slip, but you still get the paycheck.

So, you know, you could book tea times at Augusta, Cypress, Beth Page, TPC Sawgrass.

Like there is, there is that upside as well.

Yeah, it wasn't all terrible.

You know, plus, you know, it kind of, you know, when you're walking around a building and people are looking at you funny and the front office doesn't have your back, it was kind of, I was kind of relieved, to be honest with you.

As much as I love to compete and win football games and work with the staff and the players, at that time, I think I was ready because we had a lot of different opinions and we're going in different directions.

And it was just time.

So it's all good.

Had a good run and and uh made a little bit of money so it's fun and yes matt iberflues will land on his feet uh we're sure of it all right let's we're just getting started let's take a break and when we come back we'll hit two more

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All right, we are back.

We got

Coach Jay Gruden.

We got Colt McCoy with us.

Time to give out another pep talk.

This one means, this one is

personal to me.

People that have been longtime listeners of the show guys know that I've always been invested in the kicking game and the mental toll of the kicking game and the amount of pressure on the shoulders of a kicker and how they tend to not get

a lot of love when they're doing their job.

but then when they struggle, again, the human side of it, it's like everybody wants them

thrown into the river.

So, with that said, I want to talk with Ravens

kicker, Justin Tucker.

J.

Tuck.

Here we go.

I believe he went to UT, if I'm not mistaken.

I got a great story about Jay Tuck if you want it later.

Okay, let's hold on that.

And are you guys friends?

Yeah, I like Justin.

He's a great great guy.

How close are you?

I mean,

we were college teammates, and he's been one of the best kickers on the planet for the last 10 years.

Thank you.

Great way to tee it up.

Justin,

you, sir, have been touched by God.

You know this.

Football is a beautiful game that has been played by some of the world's most gifted athletes for a century.

I believe you have played your position as well, perhaps even better, than anyone has ever played their own.

You are what LT was to linebackers, what Montana or a McCoy was to quarterbacks.

You are special.

You, sir, are a living legend, and I know greatness still lives inside you.

We need it back because the disappearance of your unique human gift doesn't just hurt the Ravens.

It denies all of us.

Your head coach said this week that your struggles are not the product of a player in decline.

He's just 35 years old.

You're 35, Justin.

It's just a technique issue, issue, John Harbaugh reassured.

He knows exactly what he is and just needs to smooth it back out.

I'm very confident that he will.

So am I, Justin.

I believe in you.

This is not a physical issue, but a mental hurdle.

And I want you to clear your mind.

I want you to find your happy place.

A place where you are comfortable, where you feel safe.

So when you return to the field in week 15, don't picture yourself as a lonely man on a football field.

I want you to picture yourself as Pavarati at the Sydney Opera House.

Picture the grand orchestra.

Imagine the elegant women in formal gowns with their tiny binoculars.

Feel the strings wash wash over you as you grace the world with your wondrous tenor.

Don't picture the uprights.

We're beyond that.

Imagine yourself in the clouds, delivering power and melody to God and His three sons.

Football as opera.

Opera as football.

Deliver your gift.

Deny us no more.

Hey,

you're Justin Tucker.

Don't you forget.

This is Justin Tucker singing also, by the way.

Right.

That shit gave me chills.

I think Justin Tucker watches this.

He needs that right now.

We hope we have the rights to that song, by the way.

It was written in like 1840.

Like, what is the Statue of Limitations?

I think we're good.

Okay, good.

I mean, it doesn't disappear, right?

Like, we talked about it on our Sunday show that Adam Vinatieri was an all-pro who didn't miss a kick at all season when he was 41 or 42, and everyone's built different.

But I just, I see it as, again, not someone that knows Justin Tucker on any level, but as someone who's watched his entire career since he broke in in 2013 or whatever it was.

Like his...

He had this look about him that was just different.

He carried himself with a level of confidence that was almost irrational for a kicker.

And you don't see that in his eyes anymore.

And I thought,

Colt, there was a kick that he actually made on Sunday that really stood out to me where he made it.

It kind of drifted toward the upright, but it got through.

And he kind of was looking around and he had just a different look in his eyes.

And we got to get him back to that place where he knew he was the baddest man alive when it came to kicking a football.

And I like the first step, I think, and that's why coaching is important, that you have Harbaugh behind him 100%.

But it's time to go.

It's time to go.

This is what Justin Tucker needs.

He needs to go back to 2009.

He's a freshman at the University of Texas, and he is a left-footed punter.

What?

He can roll out to the right, can roll out to the left, and he'll punt it with either foot.

We need that confidence and that swagger.

We're playing at the University of Wyoming in Laramie.

They had to bring in like 10,000 extra seats because the stadium wasn't big enough for all our awesome fans at UT.

It's the first quarter.

We're down 10-0, and we can't get anything going on offense.

There's not enough oxygen on the sidelines to wake anybody up.

And my man, Justin Tucker, rolls out to the right, thinks about punt it, and says, nah, I'm not punting it.

I'm calling my own number on my own.

And runs and tries to get the first down and just gets completely obliterated right before the spit through the ball

in Wyoming territory, like on their own 20.

And he he walks off to the sidelines and he has the audacity to come up to me and say, you guys weren't doing anything.

I thought I'd just call my own number and try to give you guys a smart.

And I grabbed him by the jersey.

I said, Jay Tuck, don't you ever, you're a freaking freshman.

Don't you ever think that you're going to turn things around?

If we want to go for it on fourth down, I'll do it.

Not you.

Sit him on the bench.

And then after the game, we ended up winning like, I don't know, it's like 49 to 10 or something like that.

And after the game, he just comes by and shows like, hey, maybe I did provide a smart.

You never know.

That's the day tuck we need to see.

Get that confidence, get that swagger back.

You're a left-footed punter, a right-footed punter, an all-pro kicker, hall of fame kicker, likely.

Go out there and play with that swag and confidence.

Hell yeah.

Jay, Bill Parcells had an old saying: if you're not making 80% of your kicks, you're not on my team.

And,

you know, Tucker's not making 80% of his kicks, but like, as we've talked about on the show, when you are, and the Falcons are dealing with a similar situation with Young Wei Ku, when you have a kicker who has such a gleaming track record, you're kind of held hostage a little bit, right?

Like, you almost have to wait it out.

But here are the Ravens who are in full-on Steinbrenner doctrine mode.

Anything short of championship is considered failure.

It's kind of a tough spot.

I don't think it's a tough spot at all.

What's your alternative to bring in some guy who's never kicked for you at Baltimore in the stadium?

And if he misses a kick, then you'll really be put in a

bad situation.

So I'm going to going to live and die with Justin Tucker, man.

I know what he's done for the franchise, how many clutch kicks he's made, and they will be coming out there pretty soon because the AFC is really tightly grouped and it's going to be coming down to field goals.

And there's nobody still, even with the struggles this year, there's still no kicker I'd rather have than Tuck making a kick for me.

Do you think it's like a batter that's slumping kind of thing with a kicker because there's so much mental, like, is there trust that he can turn around and be the guy he was?

Or is this more of a permanent transition?

We don't blame the holder.

Who's the holder?

Let's let's blame the holder all right let's let's get the holder's confidence back we put the ball in the right goddang spot holder put your ball put the ball in the right spot make it straight so he can kick it all right yeah two words lace is out bro come on it's not tuck's fault it's a holder

one more thing before we throw it uh to cult for his pep talk

i i know what you're saying jay but let's say he comes back out of this bye and he shanks a 37-yarder and you know misses two extra points like is there a point of no return Are you literally going to tie your season to him?

Yeah, if that happens, I mean, I don't know if he's going to shank one and miss two extra points.

But if that happens, then you have to reconsider probably because that would be a lot of missed kicks in a short amount of time.

And

I don't think that's going to happen, man.

Let's be positive.

All right.

He is.

Hey, that's why I gave the pep talk.

I just wanted to talk both sides of the both sides.

All right.

Without further ado.

Well, if he can't be the kicker, he can be the punter.

Steam.

Or just the guy who ceaselessly gets Colt McCoy angry on the sideline and in the locker room.

Rogue punter.

That's right.

All right, Cole.

What do you got?

All right.

I'm going, Mr.

Daniel Jones.

Listen,

hey, you've had Pat Shermer, you've had Joe Judge, you've had Brian Dayball, and you've had extreme amounts of injuries and just bad breaks for your entire career at the Giants.

It just hasn't worked out.

And now you get a situation to go sit on the practice squad behind Kevin O'Connell, who Jay loves, who I love, great coach, a winning culture.

First time DJ will be in a locker room where everyone expects to win.

Everybody is, you know, they figure out ways to win games.

They're sitting at 10 and 2.

They came from behind, beat the Cardinals at home.

He had a front row seat to see something that they ain't really ever done.

in New York.

Not New York's fault.

It's just

how his career has been, some ups and downs.

And coming from a guy who spent his first five years in the NFL in different systems, it's hard.

It's hard to learn those languages and to be able to go out and execute at a high level week in and week out.

I still think Daniel Jones can do it.

Being able to go just immerse yourself at Minnesota, in that culture, in that building, learn that system, what they do well.

All those other coaches that he's coached for are good coaches, but they've walked into situations that just aren't that great.

The New York Giants have just not figured out how to be a really good football team over the last several years.

And who knows what happens to Sam Darnold?

Sam Darnold's playing great.

I likely think there's going to be many suitors for him at the end of this season, possibly.

And they drafted J.J.

McCarthy, a young guy.

You don't want to jump to conclusions, but my pep talk to Daniel Jones would be, you're in a great place.

Relax.

Get your body healthy.

Grind in the film room.

Ask questions.

Be a great teammate.

You never know what's going to happen.

I still believe that he has a lot of good football left to play, and I think he's in the perfect situation for the end of this year, and who knows what happens next, but

I'm very happy for where he landed and a chance for him to just take a breath.

Been in the spotlight of New York City since you got drafted.

Okay, you're out of there now.

Take advantage of it.

I'd ask you this because we even saw this season, you know, we're a month removed from thinking that Bryce Young might have been shipped out of town or the Panthers might start over and pick another

quarterback early.

They're in different places in their career, but what happens when you go from starter and then your career changes and you do have that break?

Like,

what does it do for you?

I mean, because in one way you could say, does it hurt your confidence because you were, you know, traded, benched, cut?

Or is it like, do as an athlete, do you have to really take advantage of that as a quarterback and just dive in and learn?

Yeah,

I mean, I can only speak from my experience.

And I've played with Daniel.

I love, he is a hard worker.

He is, guys love him.

He has all the attributes of a leader that you love to see.

You love to be around.

He attracts a lot of people towards him.

It just hasn't worked out at New York.

There's a lot of other factors that go on on a football team

when you're in the situation that he was in.

And I would just say for him:

yes, like re

get your passion for the game again you under just you don't have there's no pressure on you right now go out there and practice do it whatever they ask but be in meetings learn learn the system like you just immerse yourself in that with with knowing that you don't got to go out there and play right now that at all and i think there's a there's a there's a big part of that that will be extremely helpful for him i know when i got with jay in washington after i uh went through cleveland and a few head coaches there and and and san francisco and i had the opportunity to come with Jay.

Like, all I did was just learn.

And I'd learned my, I developed this

new sense of, man, I love the game.

I had just, I'd been beat up for so long.

And now, when I got to watch it, it was like, man,

I could see myself playing in this system.

I get this.

I understand it.

I want to continue to grow and learn.

And

I think that just having that attitude for DJ as he gets to Minnesota is going to be so beneficial for him.

Yeah, Jay, as a coach, you know, obviously, when a guy comes in the door what his history was and a quarterback, knowing like what, for instance, what O'Connell has with Jones coming from a toxic situation and the injuries and the way things ended with the Giants, like, how do you approach a player like that?

Do you have a kind of motivational talk of your own about hitting the reset button?

Oh, for sure.

You know what kind of talent he has.

He's a first-round draft pick for a reason.

He can run.

He's athletic.

He's accurate.

He's got a good arm.

You know, he just, for whatever reason, something happened with his injuries.

He lost his confidence and let the ball go.

I could see many a times this year when he was playing it.

He had guys open.

He just would not pull the trigger.

He just got to get back to his confidence and let the ball rip because he's got plenty of arm.

He's athletic, a good athlete, and he can help somebody.

I mean, look at some of the quarterbacks now, Baker Mayfield, Geno Smith, Sam Darnold.

These guys have all been around the block a few times, taken advantage of their second opportunity or third opportunity and made the most of it.

Absolutely.

Yeah, and the fact that that Darnold and Jones are in the same meeting room talking about, you know, when things go bad in New York, they go really bad, and Darnold providing that.

You know, Darnold, who's now, you know, I looked at his projected stats.

The guy's on pace for over 4,000 yards, 33 touchdowns, pass rating north of 100, and he's on a team that is challenging for the Super Bowl.

Like, things can change quickly with better surroundings.

So, yeah.

I feel like we helped people today, guys.

I hope so.

Yeah.

What's next?

Jay, do you go to the golf course now yourself, or what do do you do?

You have a little Tito's and orange slice?

Like, what are we doing?

Why does everybody think of me as like an alcoholic drunk?

What do you mean?

When we got together, you introduced me because I'm a big Tito's man, and you said when you want to, you know, kind of grow up.

Yeah, I might go have a Tito's.

I may.

I may.

I don't think you were the only one enjoying a Tito's at that dinner, if I recall correctly, or if I don't recall.

Let me see.

What is today?

Tuesday?

Oh,

Taco Tuesday.

Let's go.

How about you, Cole?

What do you got going on the rest of the day?

We're about to go film our Clean Pocket show.

We're about to get into some of the game previews.

So Jay's going to have to hold off for just a couple more hours, but he'll be home.

I'm actually really hungry right now.

Clean Pocket with Jay Garudin, Colt McCoy, AQ Shipley, Justin Pugh.

We got to get AQ and Justin on the show now.

They bring you the best in the NFL, of the NFL, college football, and more.

You find it on YouTube at Clean Pocket UD.

I love it.

What a big, happy family we are here at Underdog.

And we appreciate you guys giving us some time and helping some people who needed it.

Thank you.

Love it.

Thank you guys.

Boys, till next time.

See you.

All right, there they go.

Let's take a break and we'll be right back with a little TNF preview.

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All right, we are back.

That was great fun, Sess Dog, with Cole McCoy and Jay Groot.

You know what I love is that when the three of us had our dinner with them, you know, it was a good rangy three or four hours hanging out before and after.

And like,

you got a sense of the personalities.

And then they come on the show and they're exactly the same.

I think that that's promising for their own show when you're not suddenly different because you're talking to them.

I mean, Groot is just the same dude, like exactly the same dude he was that night.

Yes,

I love love Jay.

And

I thought it was nice.

First of all, you guys played.

Did we behave well?

Very well behaved, respectful of each other.

And then after we wrapped up during the break, Justin and Colt had a little conversation about the Longhorns.

And so we checked that box and we did it with dignity and grace and respect for the process.

So

I think it was a winner.

And I hope the listeners and viewers enjoyed it.

They'll be back.

All right.

You talk about the viewers?

Well, I hope they don't leave to begin with, but our two wonderful guests will be back at some point.

And by the way, just for a little shading and context, because I thought that was very interesting, the Eberfloos conversation and Jay giving a pep talk to a fired coach, and he was mentioning the end of his head coaching career, or to this point.

He was fired after five games when Washington began that season winless, replaced by Bill Callahan, who,

as Jay put it, was not respectful and how he painted the Jake Rudin regime.

And Justin, you made a good point off mic

about, you know, you wonder, do you just root for that team to crater?

I don't get the vibe that Jay wants like the modern-day Washington commanders to crater, but yeah, Bill Callahan and Daniel Snyder, I don't think that that gave him much.

He didn't lose sleep that they finished losing eight of the last 11 games, put it that way.

Yeah, and I just felt like as a former play, like former players probably always feel some sort of attachment to the team they played or team or teams they played for, but coaches, like it's a different thing when you get axed and someone else comes in and takes over.

But I also want to compare it to the Eberflu situation because I feel like Colt was on that Washington team under Jay Gruden.

He obviously loved Jay, and it felt like all the players loved Jay, and that's why there was such animosity when Bill Callahan took over.

But the reports out of Chicago don't feel quite the same to me with like the Jalen Johnson or whoever it was, Tyreek Stevens, somebody going at Matt Eberford.

Well, yeah, and I don't, and there was also before that, like, we need to be coached more, which is kind of a death statement when players start saying that about your coach, that we're not being coached.

Well, you're also watching coaches around the league advance, evolve, especially on the offensive side.

And like, handling end-of-game scenarios is like the absolute acid test of a head coach.

And when you're new, it's tougher, it's a tougher situation, but you've got people in your ear and like they just melted down too many times.

I want to push back on one thing though, because I don't think Groot, I think Gruden probably was, you know, anti-Snyder and all those people

in the front office stuff.

But like every time I hear a coach that leaves, like you still love your players, like and you can't be openly rooting against your players who did text him, who loved him.

So it's probably just like, it's a complex breakup.

It's

awkward, but you're getting paid at least.

That's the one thing about these coaches.

Like if you don't work, you're getting paid a lot.

All right, before we get to Thursday Night Football and the huge showdown in the NFC North, one thing that, you know, there is work that goes into this program before we actually begin recording.

And Justin and I spent many, many, many, many a minute together.

Hour, hour 14, hour 24.

I don't know.

Justin, how much pre-production work did we do today, as an example?

Today alone?

got four hours.

Look at that, at least.

Unbelievable.

That's what it's about.

But anyway, the point of it.

We were, you know, we had the Justin Tucker pep talk coming up and looking for some different things to accompany it.

And Justin stumbled across an NFL

films, I believe, profile

from about eight years ago, I believe, Joe Buck interviewing Justin Tucker.

And I'll tell you what,

this was an interesting watch.

And so I thought, I think I got to share this with Sest Dog and the audience.

My five favorite slash cringiest moments from the Justin Tucker

Joe Buck profile.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

I'd like to do that.

Number five.

Number five, Justin Tucker artfully combines opera with hip-hop, then shows off his heavy metal Axel Rose voice as Joe Buck shows visible signs of arousal.

Play it.

A lot of times when he sings his opera and it's in the shower.

And so not only we hear it, everybody hears it because this usually echoes throughout the locker room.

Watch Jeff.

Watch Jeff.

What?

Boner Patrol.

I never expected to see anything like that on this show ever or in my life.

Number four, Justin explains falling into opera initially as a course requirement in college.

And then he asks, like,

how does one man have all these gifts?

I don't know.

It's for you to decide how this happened to me.

I found out that it was something I really like to do, and it was a style of music I'd never really thought about before.

I don't know if that makes me, you know, like a jack of all trades or a Renaissance man or any label that I've heard before, but that's just kind of like what I like to do.

You know, if I'm going to get involved in something, I'm going to, you know, really commit to it and have a good time with it.

Renaissance man.

It's like

one of those great Ben Stiller characters where the guy is like full of shit on a level that's, you know, can't even be quantified by science.

He's like, listen, some say I'm a jack of all traits.

Yeah, wow.

Maybe I'm a Renaissance man.

Not for me to decide.

But, you know, it is what it is.

Is he a good singer?

I was trying to deduce that during, I mean, it sounded

sound.

I don't want to

make a statement one way or the other because I don't know the game, the opera side of things.

I thought it would have been interesting.

It did cross my mind that if I were the producer of the segment, if he is indeed a talent in this realm, I would have liked to hear from an expert saying he's actually singing in this blah, blah, blah.

And it's a high, especially for a man with not a lot of experience.

I would have liked to hear that, so we don't know.

To the untrained ear, it sounds like he's singing opera at a...

pretty high high level.

Number three, Joe Buck now forced to narrate off-camera for obvious reasons as Justin continues to riff on the mic, now showing us comedy chops via an old-timey broadcaster's voice.

Tucker can perform opera in seven different languages, but his talents extend beyond music.

Now, see, with y'all brains, my good looks, Kim McRun this town.

See?

It's kind of like a diluted Jim Carrey.

So, you know, he's very comical.

I'm not a Terrell Suggs guy, but kind of like a diluted Jim Carrey is one of the great, great backhanded compliments that's ever been handed out by someone.

I think they've,

I mean, I get where they're coming from.

They're trying to show the multi, you know, 20-sided die to his personality.

I'm not sure that one worked for me.

I also like he, they do show him playing the acoustic guitar.

He's playing the chords, I believe, from Sunday, Bloody Sunday by U2, but there's only so many chords you could play before you have to parachute out of that for copyright reasons.

But also, seven languages?

Is this maybe

a special person?

He seems sort of like a savant.

All right, then number two on the countdown: Justin bravely risks cancellation with a Ray Lewis impression.

I've been doing this for a long time.

16 games plus 20 if you count the preseason, which I do.

If you're a fan of arrest development, that was some real Job Franklin vibes there.

And finally, the number one most enjoyable/slash cringe moment from the the Justin Tucker 2016 profile,

the worst

Christopher Walken impression on record, given and performed with the highest level of confidence.

You know, two little mice, they fell in a bucket of cream.

The first mouse, he quickly gave up and he drowned.

And then the second mouse, he worked so hard that eventually, you know, it was good for him.

Good for him.

Nope.

He turned that queen right into butter.

Nope.

I mean, I've heard worse, to be honest, but

yeah, I'd focus on, I'd stick to the opera work.

Or kicking.

How long was that special?

How many other, there's more to all that?

Well, I got the most relevant bits, but it was about, I think, what, like a seven or eight minute segment, Justin.

Well, I can't imagine the irrelevant bits.

Seven and a half.

Wow.

Seven and a half minutes from eight years ago.

Seek it out on YouTube if you want to see the whole thing.

All right.

I was originally going to play it.

Well done production there by the two of you.

Thank you.

Originally, and that's just the work that goes on behind the scenes.

Minutes, hours.

Time just flies when you're having fun doing the work, Mark.

I was going to originally do that during the Colt and Jay segment, and then I was like, once Colt intimated that they were teammates and potentially friends, I was like, all right, we're going to parachute this one into the C-block.

Well, and he also suggested,

he said that

he was going to get Justin Tucker to watch this.

So if he does watch the segment and hangs around for a couple more minutes, he will see this at some point.

So he did it.

You know, I, well, it's all in fun.

But I love Justin Tucker.

Still do.

But,

yeah,

I think he's a man that has confidence.

It's very clear.

He's a man with a lot of confidence, both from that video and also from the story that Cole told, which is insane about a freshman calling his own fake punt or whatever.

He just needs to get back that magic.

All right.

Without further ado, we close things out with a look at the game of the week.

It is Al Michaels and Kirk Herbstreet have the honors of calling the Green Bay Packers 9-3, traveling to Ford Field to face the 11-1 Detroit Lions.

The stakes here, Mark, are huge.

If the Lions come out of this game with another win, they further position themselves as the favorite to take the number one seed in the NFC and the home field advantage throughout the playoffs that go with it.

On the flip side, if the Packers find a way, they pull within one game.

They allow the Vikings to tie the Lions in the loss column, and the NFC North is suddenly up for grabs.

And there's a scenario where Detroit goes from unstoppable juggernaut to wild card team.

So a lot hinges on this game, and can't wait to watch it.

It really does.

It kind of raises the question if you want to be one of these teams that gets out of the gate, you know, 10-1, 11-1, or do you want to be like the Packers where you took your lumps like last year, but again this year, and then found out that you're one of the most physical teams in the entire conference.

I think the last two weeks against the Niners and the Dolphins have shown me that Green Bay is an absolute punisher.

I thought that they controlled both lines of scrimmage.

Their defense is for real.

They've given up less than 20 on defense in four straight games.

They gave up more to the Lions, but that included a pick six as well.

So here's the thing.

You might be catching the Lions at the right time because having dug in, you know, yesterday, today, into a lot of reporting around the Lions and stuff, every story is about one thing.

It's about the fact that the roster is as banged up as you could possibly imagine, and especially on defense.

But right now, even right at this moment, they're wondering if left tack or Taylor Decker can play.

But it's your line.

DJ Reeder did not practice.

Josh Pascal, you don't have Aiden Hutchinson.

Malcolm Rodriguez is out.

Alex Anzalone is out.

Derek Barnes, Marcus Davenport, and those are the names.

If you go look at what's happened in terms of the wreckage, it goes into the second layer of the defense.

It goes into the third layer.

I mean, they just signed Jamal Adams off the street.

It's like they are looking for bodies.

And so I wonder if at some point, because, you know, the one thing I love about Dan Campbell, last point here, is that he sort of says, I don't care.

Like, there was a moment where Jameer Gibbs,

mistakenly on Snapchat, released like their protections and stuff on a whiteboard.

And Dan Campbell's like, I'll just give you a whole playbook.

If we can't beat you with what's happening, that's fine.

Like, we're going to go beat you with anything.

So it's like they are resilient and they don't seem to be blaming the injuries at all.

But with the way that Green Bay plays right now, I wonder how quickly you can tire out a wanting cast of your roster on defense to me as my one suspect and concern about what the next month means for the Lions because they have Buffalo next week after this.

Yeah, and a tweet that kind of got passed around a little bit by John Whitaker, who covers the Lions,

pointing out the Lions' initial front seven on the 53-man roster and where it is now.

And they're missing two of their four defensive tackles, all five of their defensive ends, four of the six linebackers from the initial projection.

And two things, like

we tend to dip into, oh, coach of the year conversation.

We were talking about how

in Denver

there's a case to be made there.

There's a case to be made in Detroit, too, that Dan Campbell and certainly Aaron Glenn, when you talk about when Aaron Glenn's interviewing for head coaching jobs,

hey, look what I was able to do.

But also,

I was watching Belichick on the McAfee show this week, and

he was asked about, you know,

what can the, are there cracks in the Lions

ship here with all these injuries to defense?

And Belichick didn't sugarcoat it.

He said that he has concerns about what the Detroit Lions are able to do.

He specifically cited their pass rush, which he said, you know, statistically, they grade out pretty well or they rate pretty well.

But if you watch the games, you see how little actual pressure they are getting on their own.

And a lot of their

positive statistics on defense are gained because the offense is so good that the opposing offenses are in, you know, obvious passing situations and garbage time in the second half, and the defense is able to pin back their ears and play in a different way.

And he, and Belchick just pointed out, this might not translate nearly as well when you start playing the big-time opponents with the stakes at a higher level.

So here is, that's what I'm most interested in in this game because I agree that Green Bay is catching Detroit at a good time.

Green Bay is playing now with a lot of confidence.

Their offense has been very good and very versatile.

And if they go up to Detroit and hang a lot of points on that defense or even beat the Lions, it really does change.

a lot of perception about the NFC.

And it goes as a reminder of how quickly it changes.

A couple of weeks on the show, a couple of weeks ago, I was like, who's going to to challenge the Lions?

If the Packers go and whip the Lions' ass on a Thursday night in the beginning of December, the conference is going to feel wide effing open as we head down the stretch.

And that's a lot of fun, quite frankly, to think about.

It concerns me when, you know, you listed the positional group along the line.

When your pass rush is wiped out, that puts obviously just a ton of pressure on the back half of your defense.

And is this a game where Jaden Reed, Christian Watson, like they're able to do a lot on a speed surface against what's left of the Lions defense.

One thing on the flip side, like last couple of weeks, I think part of it is like

it's Jared Goff is when he's when he's clean, he's been fantastic.

But this is an offense that is centered around Jameer Gibbs, around David Montgomery, and they've got a ton of other stars.

But like when these guys get going, that can be the difference, and they're going to need to score a lot of points.

The key to me for Green Bay is Quay Walker has come off two awesome games.

He's playing a ton of snaps.

He stops the run.

He's been all over the place.

They've waited for this to happen.

And it's guys like Lucas Van Nessen, Xavier McKinney, Kenny Clark, and Quay Walker, especially, I think that like you, if you can stop Detroit's run game and I guess get him off the field and kind of keep Detroit's offense off the field, that's to me, that's the way that you win.

Because if Josh Jacobs can help long, you know, time-chewing drives, and he's been at the very best of his career in the last month.

So that to me is a team that can go challenge Detroit right now.

And that's why it's a great game because it's like sometimes you're like, you just don't want to let Detroit suddenly have a celebration two quarters in where they're blowing the doors off.

And we're trying to almost like parse how they lose because that's what you do with these teams at this point.

But I think Green Bay matches up really well with almost anyone, but with the Lions right now.

I don't see a lot of punting in this game.

In fact, I think we're going to get a fun shootout, famous last words, when this game is 17-13, Harbaugh style.

But

I think Detroit will struggle to get off the field.

I think Josh Jacobs is going to have a big game.

I think that Jordan Love has really cleaned up his game in recent weeks.

He's going to do some damage.

But I also think Detroit will have its way offensively just because they're so talented and varied in how they attack teams, both in their passing game and with Sonic and Knuckles

in the running attack.

So, yeah, I'm going to take the Lions.

I'm going to ride with home field advantage, kind of carrying them over the finish line.

Let's say 38 to 34.

But Al and Kirk are going to get another classic, I think, or at least I hope.

What about you?

I'm going to go Lions 2.

I think it's going to be, I mean, they look at we're a massive botch job away from them having lost to the Bears.

I think it's going to be close.

I'm going 25 to 23

Detroit.

I think it's going to be decided in the final eight seconds of the game.

Okay, a little lower scoring than I was expecting, but let's see how it plays out.

Justin, how about you?

We got anybody picking the Packers in this game?

No way.

Lions were my Super Bowl pick for the NFC.

Well, it's it's not like they can't win the Super Bowl if they lose on December 5th.

It is, actually.

They have to win this game to win the Super Bowl.

All right.

So, you know what that means?

The Packers almost certainly win that game now.

But make sure you come back on Thursday night.

We're going to do that one live, too.

Nastra Damas over here now.

What did I even say there?

What was that?

Nastra Damas over here now.

What a Goomba.

Thursday night live stream, Justin?

Thursday night live streamed.

People seem to be enjoying them.

And as long as people enjoy them, I think we'll keep doing them.

We're having fun, right?

I think

there's a difference to them.

And I, yes, I came away from last night's adoring it.

Great to see Andrew and others.

Let's put it this way.

Just so you know, be there or be square about 10 minutes after the final gun.

Expect us to be streaming live on YouTube tomorrow or Thursday.

We will have our full week 14 preview with Jordan and Mike and

all the other good stuff.

Make sure, by the way, little Patreon plug, patreon.com slash heed the call.

You got Rolling Thunder on there.

You got I Dream in Red.

You got the Throwback Podcast.

You got the weekly draft.

And I think I covered everything there.

Always fun stuff populating over there.

So sign up over at patreon.com slash heed the call.

And one last plug, the YouTube channel, Justin, it's getting there.

I think we're hitting 17K.

We are building this thing.

That's zero, 0.0.

While the old place deemed it necessary to hold on to the feed of the show that no longer exists, we started from zero, and we are up to 17,000 subscribers, which I'm proud of, Mark.

And also, like, it shows the power of our listeners and how loyal and awesome they are.

But what we're looking for is 48.4.

Absolutely.

It's two sides doing their job.

We're doing the best job we can to bring them, to bring joy to football in their lives.

But then they're doing it too.

And I think there's people out there that like, I don't know how to click on subscribe on a YouTube video.

Let's figure it out.

Like that, there are many ways to go figure this out and let's continue for both sides to do the job.

Yeah, here's a pep talk for those who need them.

Right.

Hey, dummy, youtube.com, type in heed the call.

It will pop up and then you could just hit subscribe.

It's hitting two buttons.

Very clear button.

If your great-grandfather can do it, surely you can.

He probably can't, but that's not that that doesn't excuse you.

Not his fault.

He's a part of the greatest generation.

So, Mark, we have something bad to say about the greatest generation?

No.

That beat the Nazis?

No, it's like he, you know, I'm glad that after you came back to the States, I'm very happy actually that you were able to buy a house for like, you know, $80 and then sell it for about $44 million two decades later.

That worked out for you well.

And the Nazi part.

Good stuff.

All right.

Thank you again to Jay and Colt.

Thank you to you, the listener, slash viewer.

And until next time, do what you must.

Heed the call.

Suffs, the new musical has made Tony award-winning history on Broadway.

Winner, best score.

We the man to be seen.

Winner, best book.

We the man to be qualified.

It's a theatrical masterpiece that's thrilling, inspiring, dazzlingly entertaining, and unquestionably the most emotionally stirring musical this season.

Suffs, playing the Orpheum Theater October 22nd through November 9th.

Tickets at BroadwaySF.com.