NFL Week 13 Recap!!

The Heed the Call Podcast

wants to know why Mark had to curse my team.

My Mark?

Why?

Live

from California, New Jersey.

Beaming everywhere in between.

Heed the Call, the flagship program.

Week 13, Dan Hands is here with

Mark Sessler,

Connor Orr, and of course, Justin Graver on the ones and twos.

Mark, it's not helping.

It's not helping that the Cardinals lost again.

This is a narrative that's become tougher to shake than the Miami Dolphins in cold weather.

It just boils down to point of view.

And Justin, I mean, you know, last week was hitting me hard on this.

Zumwalt is one of my favorite people.

He's very emotional.

And he came, you know, he's bought into the concept that I

somehow cursed a professional sports team.

It's just simply ridiculous.

Like, I look at it from a different angle that they are playing very competitive football against some of the

NFC's top competition.

It's not just about wins and losses right now, this week, next week.

It's about growing, and that's what I see.

And

you can't take that away from them.

And you can't pin me or pigeonhole me, as they say, or stick me in a little box.

Did your publicist give you that statement?

I'm my publicist.

Connor,

playing hurt today.

This is going to be your flu game.

I feel it.

You told us, this is not a joke, that your wife had to help you down the stairs just to record the fucking show today.

Yeah,

I'm wildly high on a seat of metaphin.

I'm sweating and freezing at the same time, and I think there's no better feeling, no better state to be in than to talk football.

All right.

Well, we're sorry that you're you're ill, but we already have discussed, like, once we get through your games,

you could put yourself to bed and try to rest up.

And we really do appreciate you helping us out because when it's the flagship show, it's all-I didn't agree to that, though.

Like, you, you guys might have agreed.

I didn't agree to that.

You and Connor might have agreed to that.

Okay,

Connor, it has to be unanimous, and Mark has decided you must stay for the balance of the business.

Still deciding.

Okay.

Okay.

Fair enough.

Depending on your take on Mark and voodooism and the Arizona Cardinals.

They've had a hard schedule.

It's the Vikings.

Come on.

And they're up big on the Vikings, too.

Give them a break.

Okay, can he leave early now?

I think he can.

That won me over,

Professor of Jinx.

All right.

All right, Professor.

We're going to go through all the games that were played on Sunday, and we'll hit the Black Friday game as well,

and a little bit on, obviously, a firing that went down in the NFL, the hot butt machine cranking as it always does.

But let's start with the big showdown on Sunday in Baltimore.

Mark Sessler, let's do this.

Eagles, Ravens, if last week's Harbaugh Bowl was a feel-good tale of two football mad brothers who grew up running their child neighborhood, then John Harbaugh versus Nick Nick Siriani is like a boyhood Johnny Harbaugh being pegged in the neck with a rock from Nicholas Siriani's little slingshot.

He's up in an oak tree laughing at Harbaugh.

Got you, sucker boy.

I'm gonna find you, Harbaugh warns.

I'll come through your dumb bedroom window and kick the hell out of your face, Siriani.

Decades later, they square off in a post-Thanksgiving doozy, and it has the feel of a neighborhood brawl, with Zach Bond detonating Derrick Henry and Lamar on game-changing third downs, with the Ravens making noise early until grumpy dad Vic Fangio yells at the kids to go home.

With the parental rumor mill abuzz as Justin Tucker misses two field goals and an extra point, how about the moon crashes into the earth while we're at it?

It's another Sunday where the Eagles start a little slow but turn into a white-hot bully with should-be MVP Saquon Barkley throwing punches.

I got you this time, Siriani says from up in his tree, laughing like a drunken clown boy.

Eagles 24, Ravens 19.

Is that what you were looking for?

Mark asked for a Siriani laugh.

That's kind of how it.

Or maybe he's like Bradley Woodford and Billy Madison.

He's like,

Yeah, I think it's, I think it's good.

It's sort of an annoying little, he'd be younger than the Harbor's, like an annoying little kid in the neighborhood trying to rabble rouse.

All right.

Great setup there, Mark, as we get into the big game of the week.

And it's a game that

from the Eagles' perspective, yes, were they fortunate that the Ravens kicker, one of the greatest of all time, single-handedly cost his team seven points over and over and over.

He was sent out on the field and repeatedly he failed.

Yes, that was fortunate.

However, Mark, this is an Eagles team that now 10-2, riding, what is it, an eight-game winning streak?

And

this team knows how to close out ball games.

And you mentioned Saquon Barkley.

We were on Sky Sports this morning, and you talked about Saquon as your pick pick for MVP.

He was the closer in this game,

taking them home with another huge win.

He's really been so special when it's time to choke the life out of the opponent.

I mean, it sort of happened on a weekly basis because today it was a game where you were wondering

are the Eagles going to start to go through some sort of in-game or multiple-game slump?

They started really cold, ice cold, and a Ravens defense that's been up and down looked like they had their number, especially especially through the air.

Jalen Hurts struggled out of the gate, and Saquon was pretty quiet in the first half, so they weren't able to do what you thought they'd want to do, but then he just started to heat up down the stretch, and I really do think I mentioned Vic Fangio because they made life very uncomfortable on key third downs.

Like I mentioned, Zach Bond just got in the backfield and blew up Derrick Henry on a third and critical third down.

It changed it.

It kept, I think, getting in the Ravens' head.

And they got to.

to Lamar Jackson.

He escaped a couple times, but they really tossed him to the ground.

And you've got guys like Jalen Carter.

I think we we mentioned on the Thursday show, played like 100 straight snaps at some point.

He played every single snap again today, except for the final one.

And he is a massive human being who has this quickness that is completely disruptive.

They really owned, they owned Baltimore's line down the stretch.

And it was another example that they're just built for this month and the month after.

And it's such a complete different Eagles team than where we were a year ago.

In the

Nance Romo whip-topping segment, they addressed the people talking about Saquon Barkley not being able to run well against top-running defenses.

And I think this was definitely a bar and a hurdle that they wanted to clear.

There was no clear, explosive, like 76-yard, game-altering run, but it was steady.

And this is the kind of foundation that you build playoff wins in January on.

So I thought that was ginormous.

Yeah, and

Justin Tucker is a big story coming out of this game because they had a chance to go up 10-0

and he misses the extra point.

They have

two opportunities to go ahead on field goal attempts and obviously he missed them both.

And here's a stat from Bill Barnwell.

Tucker has now missed as many or more kicks today,

which was three, than he missed in 2012, 13, 16, 17, 19, or 2021.

And that's what makes this so jarring.

And, you know, I see things on social media about it that, well, you know, he's washed now.

And And he's like, well, no, actually, he's 35 years old.

I mean, in kickers, you have many kickers are in the smack of their prime in their mid-30s.

I remember Adam Vinatieri being an all-pro at 41 or 42 years old.

So I don't think it's that.

I don't think that all of a sudden Justin Tucker no longer has it.

But obviously, we have something mechanically off, and now you wonder about his confidence.

And as someone who's admired Tucker for years and talked about it on this show, you could see it.

You could see part of what made Justin Tucker such an assassin was this like sense of self and this almost arrogance that you do not see a kicker carry himself with.

And that is no longer there.

So after the game, obviously, John Harbaugh is asked about it.

It's like, you're trying to win a chip here and you have a kicker who's in crisis.

Are you going to do the unthinkable and move on from Justin Tucker?

Here's what John Harbaugh said.

You envision continuing the same approach with Justin, giving him space to try to work through this.

Well, we've been working through it.

I mean you work through with every single player.

Every single thing you fight to try to help guys to be successful, you know, so

and we can we'll do that.

I mean if you're asking me are we going to move on from Justin Tucker?

I'm not really planning on doing that right now.

I don't think that'd be wise.

But you know he'll tell you he'll be the first to tell you he's got to make he needs to make many kicks as he can.

And I just think if you look at Justin Tucker's history, you'd have to say he's capable of doing that.

But that's something that he's going to want to do, and I know we're all going to want him to do it.

They're held hostage on this situation, Mark.

Yeah, I think they are.

And I mean, I get where John Harbaugh is coming from because, you know, you don't want to find out that behind the scenes, maybe he's not 100% healthy, or if he's in a mini slump and then he becomes who he is again, and you've gone and done something pretty unalterable.

So it was stunning, though, because, you know, the Ravens for many years, when they weren't a high-powered offense, it's like all you got to do is get Justin Tucker into that zone, and then their win probability shoots up.

And today he was attached to a negative 28.4 effect and win probability because of the two field goal misses and the PAT.

And I know this game,

it didn't look as close as the score to me and it got a little out of hand physically at the end.

But I think if he makes those kicks, it's a completely different universe we're in.

And it's like they were close to winning score wise.

And so you're right that it's going to come down to, I think you texted like, you know, there's this eerie feeling that we're going to be in January and it's going to come down to a missed Tucker field goal, which was blasphemy for a decade.

And now it's like,

you can see it.

You can see it.

It's wild, too, because Baltimore is the only team in the NFL with a special teams coordinator as a head coach, and they're one of the few teams that have a kicker-specific coach.

Like a lot of teams have special teams coordinators, guys who are like linebackers and safety, no idea the mechanics that go through kicking.

Baltimore has a kicking coach and has, I think, for the last like 17 or 18 years, something like that.

So there's not a better place for him to be able to rehab this if it's possible.

But you have to imagine, just like all these other quarterbacks benefit from time and rest, like, could you just, you know, sign somebody for a week or two?

I don't know what the answer is.

Yeah, I wondered if maybe can you.

little Phantom IR visit and just kind of reset him with the playoffs ahead.

And Harbaugh can be strong on the podium today, but if he misses two kicks at the Meadowlands next week,

the conversation gets that much thornier.

And those who have wondered and have hit me up, yes, we have taken Justin out of the kicker club for the time being, which is wild because it basically was built in his honor.

But we took him out the back exit out of respect for him and his family.

And we planned to bring him back.

But we've made the decision to, for the time being, move on from Justin.

But the Ravens are not there yet.

One more note on the Eagles here because they have a very real chance still of catching the Lions for home field in the NFC.

Four of their last

five games are at home.

They'll probably be favorites in all these games.

So the Eagles have a very real chance to either run the table or something close to it.

And then with a beat-up Lions team with a big matchup on Thursday night against the Packers,

you know, they are right there.

I love Eagles fans in my mentions like, how you like that, Hands-ass, and all this stuff.

It's like, I don't care.

Hands-ass, that's pretty good.

Yeah, that is not bad.

It's not bad.

It's not bad.

All right.

You never caught that nickname growing up.

It feels like a natural, but yeah.

No, I didn't, but now I have it.

So now we just have to live with it moving forward.

All right, let's move on.

And let's move forward from the Bengals, who hosted the Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday.

Cincinnati Bengals went into Sunday's matchup with the Pittsburgh Steelers, knowing full well that their season was on the line.

For all intents and purposes, this was their Super Bowl.

And the Zach Taylor

attack would not relent until confetti was raining down upon their heads.

Joe Burrow went over 300 yards passing once again with three touchdown passes.

Jamar Chase and T.

Higgins did their part, each finding the end zone.

The ground game met the moment as well with Chase Brown busting a gorgeous 40-yard touchdown run, part of a Sincy running game that averaged 6.2 yards per tote.

Oh, yes, the Bengal's attack was humming when it mattered most.

Final score, Steelers 44, Bengals 38.

That just totally went over your guys' head?

It's good to work with guys who sell your material.

No, no, listen, like, I just, I just feel like this is like a critical mass moment for you because you've been, I mean, you know, I don't speak to everyone in the country, but the people I do speak to, you've been the Bengals guy.

And I just wonder what your feelings were watching this because for me, it was the advertisement more for a Steelers team that has added on stuff we didn't think they'd add on.

Like Nick Herbig, who's had career high in politics.

Well, that was the joke, Mark.

I was getting to all that.

Well, we can.

I mean, I just like that.

I know.

I'm not saying like, I like the joke.

You know, it stunned me into silence.

I know.

I know.

It was that good.

It was that good.

Yeah,

this is a game that

underlined everything that is wrong with the Cincinnati Bengals, that they just don't have anything on the other side of the ball this season.

And

it's probably going to lead to Lou Anarumo losing his job at the very least

because that defensive coordinator has not had any answers.

And when you have Russell Wilson

on the other side of the ball, throwing for a season high, 414 yards and three touchdowns,

I understand this is the Russell Wilson comeback season, and he deserves all the credit in the world for showing perseverance.

And obviously, Mike Tomlin deserves all the credit in the world for understanding that Wilson was the right guy for this team, even when there was a lot of people speaking otherwise when Justin Fields got this team off to a good start.

Well, Wilson's now 5-1 as

Pittsburgh starter, and

he is the perfect fit for this team.

But yeah, this was maybe the best Steelers all-around effort on some level.

Now, I know they gave up plenty of points, but Cincinnati had some

lipstick on the pig late in this game.

But while Pittsburgh's defense wasn't flawless, they had big impact plays.

They had defensive scores and forced fumbles, two of them on Burrow, and made the big plays to run away with a game.

That is always Connor very impressive to me when a team that is in great shape as the Steelers were entering this game at eight and three go against a desperate caged animal, wounded animal type team in their building, and you still take the life away from them.

That really tells you a lot about the Steelers and where they're at right now.

I mean, you can't talk enough about the coordinator change, I think.

I mean, you know, we can say what we will about Art Smith going 7-10 over a couple of years in Atlanta with Desmond Ritter.

And now looking back and Marcus Mariota and looking back on that now, seeing what he's done with both Justin Fields, who's been inserted into the game at different points in time too, seeing what he's done with this offense has been pretty wild.

I mean, it's nothing like the offense that they ran in Tennessee.

It's not just like he's copying the Shanahan offense like a lot of these guys.

This is building an offense for Russell Wilson is hard.

You know,

it's not easy.

And Russell Wilson's throwing for over 420 yards a game right now.

I mean, I think the thing about Russell Wilson that surprises me most, am I surprising that he's having like a solid season?

I didn't know what it would look like.

It's how it looks.

Like he leads all qualified passers right now in the points over expected situation on deep 10-plus air yard throws.

I mean, it's like his confidence quickly out of the gate in George Pickens has been a huge deal for that team.

Guys like Calvin Austin are showing up, and I'm with you on Arthur Smith.

It's like, what was the ceiling?

We weren't expecting much after the head coach part of it, but these are two totally different jobs.

And this offense is evolving.

And then you've got the defense with TJ Watt doing what he always does, Dan, like another crazy play that changes the game.

But more pass rushing help.

And I just, they smothered, they brought pressure from all over the place.

And I know Burrow had a lot of yards, yards, but they made like difficult.

That strip sack of Burrow was immense in this game.

Yeah, that was kind of, it, it changed the game.

And they've been making those plays all season.

But TJ Watt hasn't been having the same impact, at least with those type of plays that we've come to expect this year.

But he stepped up in this game, and I expect that to continue to build.

I think, do we have a gravedigger?

There's been,

as we sunset the Cincinnati Bengals, one last wild wild-ass stat from what has been a bizarre season.

And I imagine Joe Burrow was, again, ripping his hair out in the press conference after the game.

This is from Dante Kopalowitz-Fleming.

The Bengals are 1-2 when scoring 38-plus points this season.

The rest of the NFL is 21-0.

The Bengals are just the fifth team in NFL history to lose multiple games in a season in which they scored 38 or more points.

So they've just found ways to lose.

But watching this game, it wasn't hard to figure out.

They even had a pick six at the beginning of this game, Cam Taylor Britt.

So things seemed to be like they were playing like a desperate team, but the Pittsburgh Steelers slowly but surely kind of took over

in this game.

One little thing on that pick six, I mean, you tell me what you saw, but I saw Cam Taylor Britt grab the receiver at least partially by the helmet and drag him to the ground before he picked it off.

Yeah,

you could have called it, but you also, it's not bad letting guys play every once in a while, too.

it, I didn't see it come to the, it didn't seem blatant to me, you know, you know, that just might take it also at this point has been rendered meaningless to some degree.

I mean, unless you're the wide receiver, it has, it has.

Um, here's Burrow after the game.

Yeah, I think we'll learn a lot about who we have in the locker room, the guys that we can count on going forward, the guys that we can't.

And,

you know, I think the next

six weeks, five weeks are going to say a lot about

who we can can count on and who we can't.

He's pissed.

I could imagine the

Ian Rapaport tweet in the offseason that Joe Burrow wants a bigger voice in roster construction and things of that nature.

And you know what?

Considering the year he's having and what's happening around him, I don't disagree.

One other thing, this is a funny little note.

Mike Tomlin and the rest of the NFC North is now,

or AFC North is now mic'd up because they're on this, whatever the iteration of hard knocks is now.

I mean, it's relentless what they've done with that program.

But they're doing a full division hard knocks now for the rest of this season.

And what you'll watch here, and I hope you're watching this live on YouTube, but

I think you could hear a little bit too, is Mike Tomlin, who was mic'd up during the game, making sure to take off his mic before he goes in the locker room.

He wasn't allowing that, and then tackled Roderick Jones, seeing that Mike Tomlin, the man who can never be mic'd, was mic'd up and hearing the coach's response.

Here we go.

Oh, man, you mic'd up.

Shut up.

Oh, you.

Shut your ass up.

Let's go.

Shut your ass up.

I love Tomlin.

Who's also still wearing sunglasses indoors at that point?

Gotta love it.

All right.

So the Steelers, keep rolling.

The Bengals, Dunzo.

Let's take a break.

And when we get back, we'll get caught up on the latest league news at head coach and more games stay right there

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I lit the fuse and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

He's going the distance.

He was the highest paid TV star of all time.

When it started to change, it was queer.

He kept saying, no, no, no, I'm in the hospital now, but next week I'll be ready for the show.

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He's going to tell you the truth.

How do I present this with any class?

I think we're past that, Charlie.

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Somebody call action.

Aka Charlie Sheen, only on Netflix, September 10th.

All right, we are back.

Yes, before we get back to the games, we should touch on something that went down on Friday.

The Bears fired head coach Matt Eberbloos on Friday, choosing to go, as they put it, in a, quote, different direction one day after their embarrassing 23-20 loss to the Lions, embarrassing because of the clock mismanagement that led to their comeback attempt falling short in the final minute.

And that was the inciting moment to get him got, it seems.

Connor, you are obviously a senior writer for Sports Illustrated.

What did you hear about the end for Ebriff Luce?

Thomas Brown now takes over the offensive coordinator.

So I think the structure here is something to keep an eye on.

Thomas Brown had like three really good games as Caleb Williams offensive coordinator and then gets kicked right up to head coach.

And you don't normally do this when you're in an emergency situation.

The Bears actually loved their special teams coordinator, Richard Hydower.

They had a lot of glowing things to say about him.

That was the obvious move was to kind of instill him as the head coach and allow Thomas Brown to work on the offense.

But my read here is that maybe they want him to see if he goes on a run because Thomas Brown was a hot candidate two years ago.

He was Sean McVay's assistant head coach.

He interviewed, I believe, for a job in Houston and then went to Carolina, which was just a total disaster.

But Sean McVay praises this guy up and down, really impressive, interpersonal guy.

Could he be the one to kind of unlock Caleb Williams here?

I don't know.

But I do think that that decision was made with that in mind.

Like, okay, what if this guy gets hot?

You know, and who knows?

We'll see.

And it tells me that Thomas Brown, in terms of, you know, gauging the locker room, which I think mattered here because this turned really ugly, is that Thomas Brown is not attached mentally to any of the problems that happened.

Like, it's got to have been a fresh start because that matters who you pick.

I think this was a situation where we were starting to see like an outpouring of pretty raw critique of Iberfloos.

Whether or not you want to blame blame him entirely for that clock thing or not,

it was a committee on some level.

I can see that, but he's responsible.

And like the words from veteran players around him, just tell me like that's a friend.

It's the games, but it's everything else they're seeing behind the scenes.

And so, you know, the Bears who are not the most responsive ownership group, I feel sometimes they strike me as a sleep at the wheel to some degree, but like they did have to respond.

And I think they had to for the coach, for everyone.

And so it seemed inevitable this was going to happen like 24 hours after that game.

Yeah, I kind of disagree with the move.

like they're not going anywhere this year there's no season to save at this point and i saw the same thing happen with my team with the jets when they fired sale and they took uh olbrick the dc and you promoted him and and spread his responsibilities out and obviously olbrick was not ready for that and it led to the defense coming down like i would have just left brown as he was as the oc let him continue to cook a little bit connor william caleb williams and and the bears offense has been better obviously since he took over let Let Ibra Fluce just mine the shop until you get to January 7th, and then you could figure out what to do next.

I could see this going in a bad direction.

And in general, like the Bears are an organization that doesn't engender a lot of trust.

Like sending Ibrif Loos out to the podium on Friday morning to speak after the game was on Thursday with all the speculation swirling, and then you fire him a couple hours later.

It just seems like they don't have their house in order.

And you know, that doesn't bring a lot of confidence to them getting the next decision right either.

So I don't know.

I did ask around.

I was, you know, just some kind of people in the industry, like, who is the hire and who do you think that they're looking at?

And obviously, Cliff Kingsbury is a name to keep an eye on.

They interviewed him for the offensive coordinator job.

But I think that was really kind of an interview about Caleb Williams at the time that they were doing it.

And they wanted to kind of, you know, get some first-hand information there.

But they have a big dossier on Cliff.

And if the commanders keep playing well, I think a name to look at is definitely him.

And then Ben Johnson would be the, I mean, everyone talks about him being the lead dog here.

This would be unlike any Bears hire that they've made.

It would be top of the market.

It would be expensive.

I think you'd have to give him a lot of years, but that's the hire that I think would absolutely blow everybody out of the water.

So there you go.

We'll see what happens next to the Chicago Bears.

The other big thing that went on in the NFL on Friday was a football game.

Arrowhead Stadium.

Raiders,

The rivalry continues.

Connor, take it.

Family and friends, pie and stuffing.

A secret midnight makeout sesh with your height school sweetheart behind the football field while your family is sleeping a few streets over.

Thanksgiving is a holiday of heat, food, and sex.

Mystery.

Come Black Friday, we must all reckon with what our lives have become.

This was so true for the Raiders who lost to the Chiefs 1917.

Having done everything right, whittling down the clock to the final seconds.

One more snap before the big game-winning field goal, and then they fumble the snap.

It ends in anger and confusion.

Aiden O'Connell says he called for the ball.

Center Jackson Powers Johnson said it was his fault.

Snapped early.

The mystery of the covert Dylan Parham tack lingers in the air.

Was he to blame?

Are you ever going to tell your wife about Katrina, or do we just bury it deep down in your soul?

Lots of questions.

Is that a woman or the famous hurricane?

And how would the wife be trebling if the wife had a woman?

Can't hide a hurricane.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just like the idea that someone's going through this and they just listen to this and they're like, geez, that guy knows exactly what's going on.

Exactly.

Probably someone on this show.

That's the problem.

You know, this game, a lot of people obviously are watching it.

Friday is a good spot where you're just vegging out on the couch and

you're watching the game play out.

And I tweeted about it, I think, in the third quarter, Justin.

I don't know if you had it.

And, like, yeah, these Chiefs games follow the same script every week.

It's amazing.

If you haven't seen the movie, I won't spoil the ending.

You knew exactly what would happen, especially when it's a team like the Raiders facing the Chiefs.

One team's going to make the big play in the end, and it ain't going to be the team that's playing against the Chiefs.

And in this case, it was obviously the fumble that swings this game.

And I think this was like, this game was kind of a tipping point on some level to something that's been building in terms of the public discourse.

I think Jesse Pinkman in Breaking Bad said it best.

You can't keep getting away with it.

Yeah, like there's a general idea.

Like the Chiefs can't keep getting away with this.

And yet they do, Mark.

And yet they do.

And they did it again on Friday.

It helps to play an opponent that

as reliably gets in its own way.

And that directly happens here.

And you've got

an untested quarterback for the most part.

It was played pretty well in this game.

He really was productive

in terms of his numbers.

But you've got a center that it's just a raw center quarterback connection.

Here comes the problem.

And then, outside of Brock Bowers, I don't really know what the Raiders claim to be at this point outside of Max Crabby, Crosby and Brock Bowers.

It's like, what are you trying to do?

Did you hear the controversy that came out of this though on Saturday?

So Antonio Pierce,

he told reporters that he heard a whistle,

that the team thought they heard a whistle on the sideline during that final play.

And now, like, they didn't stop play or anything like that, but that was his claim the next day that, like, it caused confusion.

I don't know how that completely causes confusion for the center and the quarterbacks, but stop it.

I'm not saying that this is the, you know, the grassy knoll or something.

I'm just saying that there is, there is an element to it where, like, that can, if you're, if you're, if it, if you did hear that, that's an intriguing subplot.

It's also Antonio Pierce melting down at the end of a game all over for one another time.

So it's like, I don't, I just don't know what his mantra is.

Like, this felt like the most Raiders game to me of this season.

It felt very much like Raiders in a frame.

Put it on your wall.

Here's the thing, though.

Scott Turner and Norv Turner called a really good game.

And

Max Crosby, by the way, I think I forget who you were talking about that doesn't come off the field.

Max Crosby hasn't come off the field, period, in like four games.

He's played like 367 straight snaps.

He had an incredible game, but like Kay Levon Chazon had a great game.

Like he was in Patrick Mahomes' face.

The Chiefs had to double him in this game.

And, you know, like the long touchdown pass that they drew up with the motion, getting a faster wide receiver on a safety, all that stuff was really good.

Deep Brock Bowers touchdown.

Aiden O'Connell, I think, if I have the stat right, was the best player deep and outside the numbers against the Kansas City Chiefs since Joe Burrow, like three years ago in that epic, like arrowhead game.

I mean,

they played a really good game.

He was 17 for 20 for 270 yards outside the numbers.

And you're right.

You have to go back to Burrow for someone that punctured that defense.

So it wasn't all bad.

It's just the, I'm talking about the ending.

Like, come on, guys.

That would have been

a year-changing win for the Raiders.

My chaos theory.

Yeah, go ahead.

I think it's the tap.

I think nobody's nobody's talking about the tap because Aiden O'Connell is saying, oh, it's my fault.

I kept clapping for the ball.

But the ball doesn't get snapped until two seconds after he does the last clap.

The ball gets snapped after the center is tapped by the guard.

And so I think that signified to him, maybe that it was Arrowhead.

They were going maybe on a silent count, something like that.

But O'Connell wanted the ball and he wasn't getting it when he wanted it.

And so I think that I think it's a, it's a, what do you want to call it?

Like a mystery tap.

I think the Antonio Pierce boner move of the week that you're referring to, Mark, it's fourth and 11 at the Kansas City 40 with 221 to play and the Chiefs nursing a two-point lead.

And Pierce gets scrambled up.

I think he sends out the punter,

if I'm remembering this correct.

And then he...

calls timeout and then he sends out his kicker and the kicker then attempts a 58 yard field goal uh and and misses it predictably.

And to the credit of the Raiders' defense, they got the stop that allowed the Raiders that one more chance that they ultimately were foiled there as well.

But it is that kind of game management with Pierce that you see it week after week after week that is tough to swallow.

And on the Chiefs side of things, yeah, the fact that Aiden O'Connell is out playing Patrick Mahomes on that stage is something that you start to get used to.

And I'm starting to change how I feel about the Chiefs.

Not that I don't, I respect the Chiefs, and it's wholly possible that they do the thing again in the playoffs and get hot and win yet another Super Bowl.

But it's starting to me feel a little bit different that they are so good in these situations, especially against teams like the Raiders, that they'll continue to stack these wins.

But God, I think there's one of these teams that's going to get them this year in January.

before they get to the Super Bowl.

It's just a feeling I have.

They seem like a tired giant giant that is still knocking down opponents and crushing people, but it's not coming as easy anymore.

So that's just a vibe I'm getting.

I don't know if you guys are in a different camp, but I'm starting to have my doubts a little bit about the Chiefs' ability to be the first team to win three in a row.

I'm willing to

not jump on that take just because

my takes have been so profoundly incorrect for the last month plus that

announcing the demise of the Chiefs feels a little shaky for me.

Yeah.

Well, you got to put yourself out there sometimes, you know.

Well, I have, and I don't have a problem with that, but this is not one that I'm compelled by.

I know you are, and I'm glad for you.

All right, let's bring in the gravedigger who watched a very, very

tight game in Minnesota.

Hi, Justin.

Hello.

There's that charisma.

We were warned.

We were told to shut our mouths.

We were told not to talk about them, to let them come under the radar.

We did not listen.

And Mark's Cardinals paid the price.

A slew of red zone failures led to five Arizona field goal tries from deep in scoring territory, leaving the door open for another late Minnesota comeback.

And comeback they did.

With just over a minute to play, Darnold hit Aaron Jones in the flat, who took it five yards across the goal line for for the go-ahead touchdown redemption for his two earlier fumbles, and Minnesota claimed their fifth straight victory.

Final score, Vikings 23, Cardinals 22.

My boy, Sam Darnold.

Right before the go-ahead touchdown throw, Michael Sean Dugar,

who famously has resisted joining the Darnold Hive this year,

said if Darnold finishes this comeback, he will DoorDash for the Darnold Hive this week.

So I'm looking forward to that.

Let's listen to Sam,

who was interviewed on the field after the game.

I don't know if you know, but it's the biggest comeback of your career.

You just keep racking up these things.

How does this feel?

Feels great.

I mean, you know, obviously a rocky start.

Our defense kept us in it all game, and we're able to respond the way that we responded all year.

And he's proud of these guys, man.

Proud of the way they fought all game.

Wow, the hive is kicking around, Sestog.

Someone kicked that hive.

It seems dangerous from what I understand about bees and wasps.

Nice job, though, by Darnold, who hasn't, you know, this has been a really excellent year for him and the year that anyone that believed in him, as I did, thought was in him.

But it's not like he's going out there and throwing for 450 and five touchdowns every week, but he makes plays.

He makes plays, Justin,

in big spots.

And this is a game where like Aaron Jones was not helping him out with obviously the big fumble and also a drop on a beautiful Darnold throw in the end zone.

But undeterred, he was able to lead them down the field and really steal one from the Cardinals.

Just like he did last week when he had 90 yards on that overtime drive, this week, 104 of his 235 passing yards came in the fourth quarter against a Cardinals defense that played really, really good football for like three and a half quarters or so.

Like they were lights out most of this game.

Kyler Murray interception late in the fourth quarter gave the Vikings an opportunity to kick a field goal, which allowed the late touchdown to be the game winner.

And it was only the second offensive touchdown that Arizona has allowed in the last 15 quarters of football.

So this defense is playing really well.

And to see Darnold step up when it matters most for the second week in a row and go get that win, that's got to be huge for Vikings fans and the Vikings in general.

I mean, real quick on the Cardinals, like that's what I was preaching on Thursday's show is that they're getting pass rush.

Like they generated all sorts of pressure today.

And look, look, the Vikings came out slow on offense, but I do think this is like a Vikings team.

I kind of remember like a number of years ago when they kept winning those close games in the last couple of seconds.

It was just ridiculous.

And they were going to regress to the mean.

But now they're doing it with real players, a real system.

And like Darnold, this is just another thing for Darnold to learn how to do versus we've not done this.

We go to the playoffs, we get wiped.

It's like, this is a big moment for Darnold to go and do this in a big game against a competitive defense and to do it well.

I mean, this is like weeks in a row where Darnold is proving that no matter how he starts, he can finish well.

Well, the other thing I want to bring up here is,

so the Arizona defense is not to blame.

I mean, they did blow a 13-point lead in this game, but overall, they have not been the problem since

they came out of their buy.

But the offense continues to struggle here.

I'm looking at this here, Justin.

Arizona kicked field goals from the 13-yard line twice and from the six once.

So that was all in the first half.

And that was an issue last week as well for the offense.

So, you know, it just

is inconsistency and the inability for them to really put it together has really haunted them the last couple of weeks.

They were one for six in the red zone today.

They had no trouble marching down the field over and over again, but once they got close to the goal line, it was a combination of like poor execution and also going extremely conservative.

Like short throws, short of the sticks, short of the end zone.

Like it's tough to just make people miss every time you get down there to try to get there.

Like you got to throw the ball to the end zone at times.

And they had some that they couldn't complete.

Marvin Harrison Jr., what an interesting game he had because there was all this talk earlier in the week about how they were going to target him more heavily in this game.

And like, you know, the squeaky wheel gets the grease or whatever.

And he was the squeaky wheel.

And he came out and it looked like they were looking for him, but he had a play early on where he didn't come back to the ball.

The throw was a little late, but you got to come back to the ball and help your quarterback.

Felt like he and Kylo were not really on the same page.

And then they started clicking.

And then it like, you could almost see it coming together in real time.

And then he beats a backup cornerback, Fabian Moreau, for a touchdown because Stephon Gilmore had to leave the game with a hamstring injury.

And it's like, okay, the Cardinals finally put something together.

And that's when they go up.

What was it?

19 to 6 or whatever it was.

19 to 3, maybe?

I can't remember.

They take that lead on Marvin Harrison Jr.

And then the offense crumbled when they like needed to go execute.

Murray throws two interceptions, gets sacked.

It was a very discombobulated look for the offense for most of the day.

And one thing that happened that bugged the crap out of me, and I think it...

bothered Greg Olson and on the call too was that the Cardinals got down right before the half and they completed a pass for a first down, I think, near the goal, near the end zone, like really like the six-yard line or something with like 19 seconds on the clock.

And they don't hustle to the line of scrimmage.

Like, take their time getting up to the line.

And by the time they're all ready to like set and spike the ball, there's three seconds on the clock.

And I get it, Greg Olson said this too.

Like, you don't want to move too quickly there and get an illegal procedure penalty that runs 10 seconds off and ends the half with no points at all.

But if you hustle to the line, you know what you're doing, you spike the ball quickly with like seven or eight seconds, you at least get one chance to go score a touchdown.

Whereas they just settled, it felt like the whole game, they were just okay settling for field goals and trying to be that team that we complain about every week that wins by doing nothing but kicking field goals.

And it's at a certain point, you got to go for the touchdown.

Also, like you look at the roster, and it's, you got Kyler Murray, one of the most dangerous dual threat players in the league at quarterback.

You got Marvin Harrison Jr., one of the most exciting rookie wide receivers in the league.

You got Trey McBride, arguably the best tight end in football right now.

You got James Conner, who's one of the great hammers at running back.

It boggles my mind, like, how they could be struggling in the red zone the way they are.

But, you know, is it scheme?

Is it just a bump in the road?

I guess we'll see.

Tough one, though.

We shall.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's keep moving to Foxborough.

We go.

If you've listened to this podcast, you already know that

we have opted out of the Anthony Richardson culture war.

That's all caps, by the way.

I know you feel super strongly about it, but we don't really give a shit.

I'm an Anthony Richardson moderate, observing the good and the bad as he continues his development as a second-year quarterback.

On Sunday, Richardson gave both sides of the aisle something to shout about.

He threw two interceptions, completed half of his passes for barely 100 yards, but he also made more late-game magic.

His sorcery at its best in the final seconds when he followed a touchdown pass with a two-point conversion rush to steal one.

And I mean steal one from the New England Patriots 25 to to 24.

And shout out

to

Shane Steichen here for hanging the onions.

He could have easily sent out his kicker to attempt to tie and force overtime after that touchdown late in the fourth.

But watching the game, the decision was a pretty easy one.

The Colts' defense had been worked for three straight hours.

New England didn't even send out their punter, I don't think, until like around six minutes ago in the fourth quarter.

And it was the Patriots' failures in the red zone that allowed this game to even be where it was.

So, you had that issue that Steichen's thinking to himself: do I really want to risk a coin flip knowing how my defense is playing?

And then there's the Richardson of it all, because for all his warts as a passer at this stage, and there are plenty and plenty of things that could point to in this game as well, he is a fearsome goal line presence.

And I like my chances with that tank of a QB running behind Quentin Nelson from two yards out, and that's exactly what they did.

And they got a huge win to keep their playoff hopes alive as a result.

Can you throw?

I mean, that's always been the question.

And I guess to a lesser degree when Shane Steichen had Jalen Hurts, but can you throw the ball dangerously enough to make all of these goal line runs a legitimate concern and make them hard to block up and scheme up?

I mean, Anthony Richardson basically had one-on-one.

You know, he had to make it through one defender to get into the end zone.

That's the matchup that they wanted when they called that two-point play, but it doesn't work unless in some of the preceding throws here, like he is making you fear that option.

And at least down the stretch, it seemed like he had some of those throws today.

I have no problem with them stacking what he does well, like in a situation like that and letting him have that moment.

I mean, Next Gen agrees with what we wanted.

We want, I love when you get down, that feels like a preseason move where it's like, let's just end this game and get on the plane and go home.

And it's like that Next Gen said the same thing.

You've got to go for two there.

And like, you know, that's the kind of thing that 15 years ago would have had people fainting in the aisles that you'd even consider that at that point.

So I love that.

But for me watching this game, Dan, like, I want to know what, what you thought because it's a pretty wild happening in New England right now to watch Drake May

run the way he does.

Like, he's got the highest yards per attempt running of like any, anyone out there, like amongst quarterbacks.

And like, he also, uh,

I thought he starts 17 for 20, and this guy can just throw the ball.

He looks completely comfortable.

And like, I was the fool suggesting that they nestle him in a, you know, bubble wrap, as they say.

No one actually spends time in a ball, but like you do that figuratively.

It is dangerous, especially, right?

Like, but you, you know, for the whole season, and instead, like,

he's probably saved the coaching staff's job and like the OC's job and everyone else's.

And it's like, they're fun to watch, which is the biggest surprise I feel like in the AFC East this year.

They're fun to watch, but also it was maddening to watch this offense

to be able to move the ball the way they did up and down the field.

They were inside the Colts 26 times in this game,

and they scored 24 points.

And there were just drives that were stalling.

There was a penalty called back, a Stevenson touchdown.

There was an interception that May threw that bounced off his receiver and kind of like hung in the air.

And right before it hit the turf, it was scooped up for an interception.

And

the Colts, you know, the defensive scheme of the Colts was very vanilla.

Didn't get after Drake May with many blitzes.

Maybe in part they're afraid of him running out the back door.

And they should be because he is obviously one of the fastest quarterbacks in the league.

He had a, I believe, a 41-yard run in this game in the first quarter.

That was the second longest by a Patriots quarterback in a quarter century, and he maxed out at almost 19.5 miles per hour on the run.

So that's what you're dealing with.

This is obviously Drake May is giving you, as a Patriots fan, everything you could have asked for in year one in terms of showing his potential.

But everything else around the team, there's so much work that needs to be done.

And that's kind of why I brought up the Gerard Mayo thing when we were talking about hot butts this past week is because I think some of this stuff is

a symptom of coaching.

And

I think it's more than likely that Mayo comes back for another year.

But I just wonder what conversation we're having this time next year and if we're thinking that the coaching staff is the right setup for this young kid.

But in general, there was positives to take out of it for the Patriots, negatives, obviously.

And you could say the same thing for the Colts, who still, I think, profile to me is a classic 8-9, 9-8 team, probably on the outside looking in.

But this is now the second time in three weeks.

He did it to the Jets also that Richardson played hero in the final minutes.

So it shows you he's got that juice.

And that gives you something to be excited about, too, even if he's a very unpolished gem at this point one little nugget for you because this seems like up your alley but we like we were in a game here where joey sly missed his fifth field goal of the year inside 30 yards and then nearly makes a 68 yarder yeah i i really think we're going to see the field goal record get broken this year he piped that thing well he didn't pipe it it didn't go through uh but he kicked it really well but it fell short from 68.

i was kind of hoping cbs would give us the the side angle to see how close it actually was to getting over the crossbar, but no, he fell short on it, and

that's a tough way for a game to end.

Here's Steichen, by the way, on the decision to go for two.

Put it in Five's hands to go get it.

Now it was his own read to where, you know, it might have went to JT around the edge, but he was a Rena guy, and boom, he kept it up in the middle.

And Quentin pulling around there for him, so it was good.

That's important, too, because Richardson said after the game

that, yeah, it was his choice, and he could have given it to Taylor, but he read the defense and saw that he had a path on the inside running behind the great guard Nelson.

And so, that's development, too.

So, there you go.

And you know what?

Let's wrap it by showing Anthony Richardson with a badass 360 spike after his first touchdown of the game.

This is cool.

That's just cool.

Yeah, it is.

So, there's good and there's bad.

It's okay to be in the middle and just observe the development of a kid QB.

All right.

Connor, anything to add there?

I totally agree.

I mean, we just...

Connor alive is the question.

I'm doing it.

I've had a cup of mint magic tea from Celestial Seasonings,

sort of a reviving tonic here.

And yeah, I'm just,

I love, I love watching Shane Steichen and Anthony Richardson grow together.

I think they're going to be around.

I still think they're going to catch the Texans.

I've said it a couple of times already on this podcast.

I still think it's going to happen.

We will get to the Texans, but first, let us take a break.

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All right, we are back.

Let's keep rolling.

Checking back in with Connor, how are you feeling, Connor?

I, uh, this was a game that I drafted, uh, attempting to use it as a trade piece to get Pittsburgh and Cincinnati away from you.

It didn't work, but it ended up being a very fun game.

So I'm glad I got to do it.

All right, to the meadowlands we go.

Oh, neat.

This Jets team is fun.

The only remaining fan in the universe said to himself early in a 26-21 loss at MetLife Stadium.

Aaron Rodgers and company got up big on ghosts from their past, like Leonard Williams and Geno Smith.

Holding a 14-0 lead at the end of the first quarter, Seattle fumbled three kickoffs, losing two.

There were two blocked extra points in the first half, but very frustrating second half, likely making Fireman Ed want to shin kick a Salvation Army Santa out front of the food town on Route 17.

Dropped balls, a gutting Brees Hall fumble.

Leonard Williams logging two sacks and a 92-yard interception run for a touchdown.

Set the stage for a Zach Charbonnet TD run with less than five minutes remaining.

Seahawks are good.

Jets, a lot of weird stuff happened after the game, too.

A lot of weird stuff.

I mean, this was, you got to,

as a Jets fan, you're just like, you knew it was gonna go badly.

You knew they were probably gonna lose.

So it was just like, let's enjoy this.

Let's enjoy Aaron Rodgers looking healthy and throwing downfield and the defense making plays and the other team embarrassing itself over and over again.

One of the worst special team showings you'll ever see from the Seattle Seahawks in the first half of this game.

But when it turned, it turned.

And this game turned

after the second Seattle special teams gaff on a kickoff fumble.

And the Jets are set up in the red zone, up 21 to 7.

And Garrett Wilson runs a beautiful double move and is all alone in the corner of the end zone.

And Aaron Rodgers, as has happened more than I expected, and a lot of people expected this year.

We knew he couldn't move anymore, and the Achilles was only going to compound that issue.

But scatter shot accuracy has been another issue this year, something that a declining quarterback,

that's part of it.

That's part of what it is.

And he turns 41 tomorrow.

He badly misses Garrett Wilson.

And then on top of it, the next throw, he tries to force it to Garrett Wilson.

And that leads to the Leonard Williams pick six, which in addition, Connor, to Leonard Williams being a former Jets first-round pick,

he ends up having one of the great games with multiple,

like a sack, a fumble recovery, the longest pick six ever by a 300-pound player.

It was just classic Jets.

And the Jets never scored again after that.

So instead of 28-7, it's 21-13 and the wheels were coming off.

And that was on Rodgers directly.

I want to change the, like, you know, I don't want to make it all like a pain thing for the Jets because really, that first half, especially the touchdown where they faked the bubble screen and then inverted the shovel pass, and Rodgers dropped that one ball on an RPO and then just threw a dart to Devontae Adams, like it was unconscious.

That was the team that we thought we were getting.

And I thought in those moments, it's like, this is actually a pretty neat little offense.

Like, if you could just kind of do this, you know, and you could take away some of the big chunks.

And yes, Aaron Rodgers is going to miss throws.

Patrick Mahomes is missing a lot of throws this year.

He can't hit Xavier Worthy deep.

You know, deep balls are what they are.

Only Russell Wilson's hitting them in some bizarre, strange circumstance.

But like, this offense, like, for a half of football, I was like, you know what?

Like, this, this is, this works.

Like, this, this makes sense.

And if you were to say, like, ah, we're going to, you know, we're getting way ahead of ourselves.

But if they were three and four at this point and they put up this performance i'd be like all right i could see them as a seven seed in the playoffs i mean they're not there was there was a tweet i saw and it's and you know and it's it's obnoxious to pile on the jets at this point because i thought you're right this was a competitive game but they had um gino smith as their opposing quarterback mark sanchez as the color commentator um and aaron rodgers going two for 14 on deep throws, which I don't know if he's ever had a line like that.

So, damn, if that, I was going to ask you, but you sort of answered it.

Like, does it speak to the offense not working on these kinds of plays, or is it his accuracy?

But it certainly sounds like he's culpable on some of these deeper misses.

Well, he hadn't been throwing deep at all the last few weeks, and it really looked like a quarterback that was just protecting himself.

But the bye week really did.

Really did do wonders for him.

He was very mobile in this game.

He was hitting throws initially.

But yeah, the deep game has not been part of their offense all year,

and that's just the way it is.

Like, we have Rodgers, by the way, because you mentioned um and we're going to get to the seahawks but there is just a little housekeeping here with the jets because after the game there's the way um olbrick answered a question about is rogers going to be the qb he kind of left it open a little bit i left the door open uh what did he say exactly connor

uh not right now uh when asked if he was going to make a quarterback change and then we're going to have to go back uh and and look at the film which is just i mean i don't know if you're saying that

saying this at the point where you're trying to just pacify Woody Johnson, who reportedly wants him benched, and you're just trying to make it sound like Rodgers doesn't have free reign and latitude, but like, what an unforced error that was.

Yeah, well, this guy has been in over his head since the day he took the job.

But here's Aaron Rodgers, who has now had in a season a lost season for the Jets five separate games.

That's five games where he had the ball in his hands with a chance to lead the Jets to tie a game or win a game.

And they are 0 for 5 in those situations.

It's a story of a declining quarterback.

Here's Rodgers on those opportunities.

Yeah, it's disappointing.

I mean, what else can you say?

You know, we've had a lot of chances in these situations.

A lot of these games come down to one play, and whether you make it or miss it, and sometimes that play happens in the second quarter.

You make that play 28-7, different ballgame.

And there's a lot of talk about should the Jets keep Rodgers.

The way the contract is set up,

they're going to get killed either way with dead cap money.

It just like, when do you want to face the pain?

Whether you keep them next year or dump them, you're going to get killed and have to eat a lot of dead money.

But I really think it's time to move on because he just creates a lot of distractions for a team that needs to go in a different direction.

On the Seattle side, Connor,

kind of, I wouldn't have called it a miracle win, but it was a bad team that allowed them to get away with a win.

The Jets had 10 penalties in the fourth quarter.

They had four penalties on the last drive alone, including both.

When Seattle had two fourth down situations, the Jets committed penalties that allowed them to continue that drive.

I wasn't impressed by Seattle in any way in this game, but to their credit, they found a way to dig themselves out of a hole, and they're still obviously very much in the NFC West title race as a result.

Here's what I did like.

I thought that my one big complaint about Ryan Grubb to this point, their offensive coordinator, has been that there's been no cohesion with the play calling.

And I saw a lot of layers in his game plan today.

You know, he would do things like he would take Jake Bobo and he would make him a blocker, make him a blocker and then do the same thing again, but then get him out into the flat and get him a target, you know, make a nice concept where he's drawing guys away.

Like I think he's starting to get into that McVay mindset.

And we can't get out of, like, you can't ignore the fact this is a massive leap from someone.

going from college and like you're just more talented than most of your other teams to having to out smart and out scheme people And I thought this was the first time that I saw like a little, a bunch of little breadcrumbs where I was like, all right, I think there could be something here.

And just Marcus, I know you didn't see this game.

Just to, again, crystallize how bad Seattle's special teams was in this half and how miraculous it is that they won this game.

The first half alone, they lost two fumbles on kickoffs.

They allowed a 99-yard kickoff return for a touchdown and had a PAT blocked.

I keep red zone on in the distance.

So I did see some of these gaffs.

I guess if you wanted to really spin positive, you could say these fatal mistakes happened to a first-year coaching staff with a lot of new guys in there, and they found a way to get over it.

But that's ignoring the Jets side of it.

Let's go have 10 flags in the fourth quarter.

That's not a great plan.

The Jets' gift is they can ruin anything.

And even the day that started with, okay, we're going to have a nice day here at the Meadowlands.

It was like, no,

give us two hours.

We'll figure this out.

And figure it out.

They did.

Seattle with the W.

Let's move on to Jacksonville with Mark Zessler.

Back in high school art class, our teacher, Mr.

Salvo, an unusual fellow by all accounts, taught us about the vanishing point.

I think we all get it.

You draw a highway in the desert, and at some stage, it goes into the ether.

You can't see it.

That's when we begin to ask the question, if we can't see it, does it truly exist?

Do the Houston Texans truly exist?

I question the offense, the line, a defense that collapsed late in a very tight win, and this team's ability to handle their business.

Watching Aziz Al-Shaheer

basically drop his elbow into the visage of a sliding Trevor Lawrence in the ugliest hit of the season.

Lawrence frozen on the field before he's carted off and immediately ruled out.

Aziz al-Shaheer booted from the game, tumbling into another fight with Jacksonville's Brandon Scherf before security drags him away with beers and debris tumbling down.

The rest of the game had the feel of an afterthought.

But here's what sticks with me.

The Texans aren't great.

They don't suck.

They're just a bit of a chore to the senses.

Texans 23, Jaguars 20.

Yeah, like, what are we doing?

I mean,

so you got a dirty player who, this is not the first time he's done this.

No.

He smoked a quarterback out of bounds.

He had another late hit.

He punched Roshan Johnson in the face, and he wasn't even in the play.

He just got up and just punched him in the face.

He's an angry young man, obviously.

And in this case, it was the cardinal rule, which was, you know, when the quarterback's sliding, especially a marquee guy, a former number one overall pick,

it's known that you're not going to go leading with your helmet and shoulder into a sliding quarterback.

And he turns out Trevor Lawrence's lights immediately,

which sparks the melee.

And I saw somewhere on Twitter, it was like, this guy wanted to get tossed out of the game because there's a code on the field that you don't do certain things.

And that hit on Lawrence is one of those things you don't do.

And the other players wouldn't be able to protect Al Shier

on that play after that play.

So it's probably better off.

He spent the rest of that game in the locker room.

The FedEx bill is going to be very large, and perhaps the suspension as well.

He had to go.

He had to go.

And like, I mean, it was, there's like maybe three or four hits a year that kind of just stop stop you in your tracks as a viewer, like, you know, not even comprehending where Trevor Lawrence is mentally at that point.

Like he is frozen on his back and has a bench clearing brawl.

The play is separating, then a brawl is breaking out, and you've got two doctors over him.

And this is one thing that came to mind because I know it's it's it's contextual, but like after that, Max Jones, Mac Jones comes in.

He played very well today down the stretch, but they're stuck in a third and one situation that Mac Jones, with this, with the team freaking out inside, both teams, I think the Texans players were just as

shocked by what happened.

They really were.

Like D'Amico Ryans was shocked, but suddenly it's third and one, and Mac Jones has to get under center and convert a key third and one.

That's because

the fight triggered offsetting penalties.

And my one thought: you know, Jarian Jones of the Jaguars got ejected, but there's a lot of stuff going back and forth.

So the refs march out after they've we carted Trevor Lorenzoff, who's in that, you know, position where his body's frozen because because he's had a traumatic brain injury.

Offsetting penalties essentially means that the Texans, outside of losing this thug of a player,

they suffer no

penalty on any on it.

It's still the same situation.

There's no way there should be offsetting penalties, in my opinion, on a play like that, where you're still making the Texans line up and do, or the Jaguars line up and convert a third down after their quarterback has been destroyed in one of the most illegal hits of the year.

Just my take.

I know

it's messy, but it's just like it was a bad look.

This game touched a massive nerve for me, too, if I can rant for a second.

And that's that every time one of these things happens, we have like four or five former players coming on and being like, you guys have no idea how hard it is to stop and not hit him.

Most of the time, that's true.

And I will side with you 99% of the time.

This one, he had an option, and not only did he not slow down, but you swing.

And to me, I kind of saw this as like a little bit of an act of cowardice.

Like you lead with

a hard surface brace on your elbow to make contact with your, you're weaponizing your equipment.

And I think this is the perfect chance.

Reminds me a little bit of the Danny Trevathan hit from 2017.

I don't know if you guys remember that when he speared Devontae Adams in the head and he got two games suspension.

The NFL can come out this week.

They can can him for the rest of the season and they can finally set some clear parameters on like what's acceptable, what's not.

Get that teaching tape in every facility, stop the quarterbacks from faking slides so that guys don't do this.

Like, use this week as a point of emphasis week where every coach is talking about this at every meeting, and then we don't have as much dumb stuff and throw him out the first time.

Because maybe if he got tossed from punching Roshan Johnson in the face, he thinks twice before he does something like this.

Does make me think about

leading with the forearm

and the elbow that the narcissist Lex Luger Luger in WWF had famously had a titanium plate in his forearm as a result of surgery following a motorcycle accident.

And yeah, I think Grill Monsoon especially got incensed when he would lead with that forearm that had the titanium plate, which is fair.

Like it's fair play from Monsoon in a big spot.

Yes.

I'd agree with you.

If you want to hit him, you know,

hit him with your shoulder pads.

That's fair.

That's fair.

And one last thing, Mark.

So

what have we seen from CJ Stroud?

Is it still more the same?

Like, the box score is never impressive.

The eye test hasn't been impressive either.

How do you look in this game?

Like, not as good as Bryce Young over the past couple of weeks.

I would say this.

He was protected a little bit better down the stretch.

There were a couple throws where he was able to survey the field.

They got Nico Collins going very early at like 65 yards off three catches, and there was some big playability, but they can't get it all together in one in one drive um enough like they had 24 yards rushing in the first half and and mixing came on down the stretch it kind of reminded me of like the Eagles, if you took like a C-minus version of the Eagles, the way they played in the second half on offense, but they also allowed Mac Jones to go ballistic on them, two back-to-back scoring touchdown drives to make this a game when it shouldn't have been.

And so they can't close opponents right now.

And CJ Stroud, to me, I can't imagine how frustrated he is.

Like, it just seems like a frustrated, constipated offense.

They're kind of just trying to figure themselves out.

And then I think they miss guys like Stefan Diggs.

They're missing their interior line.

And it looks like it.

And so, to the idea of Connor's theory that the Colts could catch up,

if the Colts are going to go seize teams by the neck at the end of games like that, yes, I think there's a chance where they can find a way to get back into this because the Texans need to get out of their own way.

Yeah, I mean, no diggs is obviously a big deal.

The offensive line hasn't been great this year.

But I think one of the big surprises

for us and for a lot of people is that we thought Stroud was one of those dudes that rises above those things.

But very clearly, his play has been impacted, and he has been, you know, he's made a lot of mistakes as well.

It's just been, you know, not the best year.

And he's going to need to be better if they're going to be a serious contender in the AFC.

Connor to Atlanta.

Hey, Falcons fans, free sign idea for your next game.

Show Show us your panics.

Haha, get it right?

La la la la.

Could this become a rallying cry after Kirk Cousins was smacked harder on Sunday than that little boy actor at the beginning of It's a Wonderful Life in the Pharmacy?

Chargers 17.

Falcons 13.

Cousins threw four picks and looked incredibly rusty.

Jumped on routes by Tarheb Still, who had another amazing game here.

Returned one of those two for a score.

This was a vintage Derwin-James game.

Marcus May got an interception in this game, despite more than 130 all-purpose yards from Bijan Robinson and an excellent, excellent game from Atlanta's defense.

The Chargers sneak away with a post-Harbull win and move to 8-4.

Yes.

So Kirk Cousins now over his last three games, 0-3, no touchdowns, 6 interceptions.

Oh, I mean, and he's been a guy that he's had slumps, but he's also been known for his consistency in his career.

We're a far way off, Connor, from the guy who threw for 500 touchdowns on Thursday night football.

What went wrong today, and what have you been seeing from him during this deep slump?

It's wild.

And I don't know what you need to do to alter this in the offense, but even on play action, he can't get to the running back.

He's reaching really far to try to get there.

He can't beat Bijan Robinson to the hole and get to where he needs to be.

There was

a play action, just a check down pass in the back where Bijan Robinson had to completely stop and come back and get the ball.

Kirk Cousins' picks today were bad.

Like, you know, these were clear reads.

Guys coming from like 10 yards away that saw this coming, picking them off.

He doesn't look like he has any zip on the ball.

Like he looks like he's playing in slow motion.

And what's crazy is still every time Bijan Robinson touches the ball like something good happens.

And I don't know, you know, is it immature at this point to be like, yeah, let's see what Michael Penix has?

But like he would probably be able to run this specific offense better than Kirk Cousins.

But can you install something specific to Kirk Cousins that makes him less of a liability moving around in the backfield like that?

Where are you with

the Jim Harbaugh offense in general?

Because I'm looking at the drive tart and there's some drives and ends on downs.

It's three straight field goal drives.

Their touchdown comes on defense.

I wasn't particularly impressed with them against last week down the stretch.

It's just like, are they there?

I know they're missing pieces, but like Lad McConkey is great.

You know, they didn't have J.K.

Dobbins today.

So was it just a lack of personnel?

Complete lack.

So Lad McConkey had, let me get this, make sure I get this number right.

117 of the 147 passing yards that Justin Herbert threw for.

And

he left the game with a knee injury as well as he came in nursing the shoulder injury.

So this guy was getting smashed.

I mean, you know, and it's lazy to do the Wes Welker thing, but like he accumulates a lot of hits and he has a lot of short-range catches.

He gets beat up more than some of these other guys in games.

Similarly, you have Quentin Johnson who had another big drop in this game.

And, you know, last week, that was something.

The season before, that was something.

We thought that maybe they had turned things around for him a little bit and got his confidence back.

But this is not an offense that scares anybody by any stretch of the imagination.

And it's almost miraculous that they walked away with this victory.

Young Wei Ku missed another kick, by the way, just Just so.

I feel like we can keep that.

Every one of

every Chargers game this year, the final score has been 17-13.

That's what it feels like.

And some people like that type of bully ball.

It's sometimes arduous for me to watch, especially when it's Justin Herbert that just feels like he's playing with shackles on him with all the talent he has.

He was sacked five times in this game, too, which is something to keep an eye on, which is notable because the Falcons had 10 sacks all season before this game.

So if the offensive line is going to have some issues, that's not good.

J.K.

Dobbins is obviously on IR with that MCL sprain.

Their running game didn't do much in this game.

So yeah, it sounds like the way you're explaining it, Connor, it was very fortunate that Cousins had one of the worst games of his career.

Was there any penics

buzz in the post-game pressers that you heard?

I don't get the sense that that's where it's headed right now.

And again, I would say that's premature, too, because I do think this is stylistically a tweak that the offense needs to make there's a way that this offense works that makes most of the guys play well like bijan robins and drake lynn and all that but it's just not right now the offense that kirk cousins can play and so i i think he's just a little gassed he's having a hard time moving laterally and i i just didn't see him really like throw from a platform this uh on sunday so yeah i don't know i i think you give it more time there is still more good than bad for sure you certainly are not going to bench him next week when he's going to play his old team, the Vikings in Minnesota.

But yeah, the heat will be on with now the Falcons, who were once in control of the NFC South, now riding a three-game losing streak and all of a sudden now have been caught by the Buccaneers.

So, you know, that is an underwhelming division.

And the Falcons looked like they had their chance to run away and hide and they have botched it.

So two quick notes.

Raheem Morris said that Kirk Cousins did everything right today except for the turnovers.

So that just just did.

That just makes you sound like a coach that doesn't really have a grip on reality.

Come on, man.

Kirk Cousins also had a hot Christmas sweater on.

Oh, I saw that.

Yeah, that was really.

That was good for him.

It fit him well.

It did, like LL Bean, kind of like not red, you know, like, you know, overstated, like a lot of earth tones.

It looked really good.

So I saw exactly one play from this game, Connor, on one of the cutaways while I was watching my game.

And to your point, it was like an out where he had to, you know, really drive the ball to the sideline, and it was a balloon that the defender, it wasn't like the defender had to quickly react to jump it.

It was like he had to wait for it to get it.

It was not even competitive.

It wasn't even close.

And you just wonder, is he healthy?

I know his arm strength has never been part of his game, but

God damn, that was a bad throw.

Don't discount that, that there might be some health thing, but also don't take away from the fact that Tarheb still is incredible.

He's had like three or four really like game-altering games over the past couple weeks.

And Derwin James, when he's on, is still like just such an electric player.

You don't get that all the time, but you got one of those this week, too.

That secondary was hot today.

Hot, hot, hot.

All right.

All right.

Where are we at?

What does that say?

Oh,

Connor.

Oh, we got Connor hooked up.

It sounds like he still has a pulse.

So why don't we do this?

Why don't we kiss off Connor here and let him uh have his wife carry him up the stairs i feel better now i got a lot of tylen on me so uh but thank you

is this a bedpan situation uh or like where are we at when we have to go in the middle of the night well so uh my son this is like his first uh bout with the stomach flu so he and him and i have it uh simultaneously and he's rated this thing in terms of pukes and he's like dad this is a five puke this is a five puke flu had a five five star puke five out of five not Not like five stars.

Like we've, we've puked five times like together, you know?

And so there's been a lot of like, there's been a lot of like short-range quickness needed to like go into his room, wood floors.

You're a little bit slippery with socks on, and then you're picking him up to try to get him to the toilet in time for him to hit the.

So

not quite a bedpan situation because I got to get up and move a little bit here.

Yeah, no, you got to.

Yeah.

Stomach flu is one of the worst, one of the worst things, you know, never pleasant.

You know, sometimes all the gates are open.

It's just like, you just, it's like one of those things you don't wish upon your worst enemy.

So, Connor, I want you to hopefully close the gates and get well, son.

And we'll see you on the other side.

All right.

Thanks, boys.

Fair will.

All right.

Let's take a break and we'll close out the app.

You may have heard by now that Heed the Call with Dan Hansis and Mark Sessler is on Underdog.

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audience only.

All right, let's keep going, Sess Dog.

You and me.

What are you breaking over there, by the way?

What was that?

That looked like a lime green refreshment of some sort.

Coconut water.

Okay.

Just trying to stay hydrated.

It's healthy.

Yeah.

Thank you.

All right, let's go to Charlotte.

Ooh, Jaunty.

Listen, the Bucs aren't perfect, but they are tough sons of bitches.

Remember in the original Rocky

when an exhausted Apollo Creed is certain he has a knockout at the end of the 14th round, but just as he's beginning his celebration, he turns and he sees Rocky back on his feet.

Mick's telling Rock to stay down.

Adrian just wants it to be over, but the Italian stallion simply won't quit.

That defeated look from Creed.

There it is.

It might be one of the greatest goosebump moments in the history of sports cinema.

You know, save it for the cinephile podcast, Sess Dog, right?

I'm with you, though.

And rest in peace,

Carl Weathers.

But anyway, Baker and the Bucks are like Rocky.

They don't give up.

They won't always win.

You You know, Rocky, of course, didn't win that fight either, at least the first one against Apollo.

But they'll never stay on the mat.

So, after a dramatic touchdown drive by the reborn Bryce Young, put Carolina ahead in the final minute.

Baker Mayfield calmly led the team to a tying field goal.

Then, after a calamitous Chuba Hubbard fumble, the Bucs drove for the winning field goal in overtime to secure a 26-23 win that moves them within one game

or ties them, I should say, with the fading Falcons in the NFC South.

Eo Adrian, they did it.

Yeah,

I think that I have to, the story should have been, or what if the football gods were in a better mood, a more giving mood, the story should have been, oh, wow, look at Bryce Young, who has, after his benching, gotten steadily better and really shown a lot of

the traits that made him the number one overall pick a year ago.

And his touchdown pass to put

the Panthers ahead in the final minute was beautiful.

He felt the pressure.

He stepped up in the pocket.

He spots Adam Thielen, throws a perfect strike.

Thielen goes into like a B minus, C plus, gritty, but that's okay because Thielen has been a big help

to

the kid quarterback.

And then in overtime,

they get the ball.

They're marching down the field.

Again, here's Bryce Young looking, looking, finding Thielen down the sideline with a long strike that Thielen makes a one-handed catch.

Gorgeous.

And just when it looks like the Panthers are going to kick a field goal to win this game, because Tampa had already missed a field goal earlier in overtime, Hubbard fumbles.

And it's just all the air goes out of the building.

And before you know it, you have a long sideline run by the Bucs

and then a chip shot by McLaughlin.

To his credit, he had hit a long one to force overtime.

And the Bucs find a way.

And the Bucs are tough as hell.

They're not a great team, but they're a tough team.

And you saw it again in this game.

Well, yeah, to your

questioning the football gods,

I think they tried to give both teams something positive because I think that no matter what happens, it's a tough loss for the Panthers, but we're like, you know, 40 days removed from the assumption that Carolina was was going to use maybe the number one pick all over again on a new quarterback.

And so much has changed.

And so going and competing with Tampa Bay this way in the last couple of weeks, like I can, I could be a Panthers fan of coming out of that with Hopeful, but I think the football gods are like, we like the Bryce Young story here, but the Baker Mayfield story is something else entirely.

I mean, years in.

And like, at one point, I'm looking down and he's knocked out on the ground.

And I thought, we've lost this guy, maybe for the year, because that seems to happen every other week or so to Baker Mayfield.

But he exemplifies the tough nature of this team.

That I think one of the big differences is that they can pound you with the run now.

Like Bucky Irvin having a career day, that was something that under Brady and the last couple of years, they were a one-sided attack.

And I think it's got to help Baker Mayfield so much.

But just the idea of them climbing back into a game like this, I don't think they're that different than the team from a year ago that knocked off a wanting Eagles team.

It's like, I don't care what their record is.

I don't want to deal with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the postseason if they get there because they can go do kind of anything on any Sunday.

And it's like, I'm not surprised at this point.

They're very weird in an entertaining way.

Right.

Hence the Rocky analogy.

Like that Rocky was not a highly regarded fighter.

He was a tomato can that Creed hand-picked because the fight was in Philadelphia and they just, it was just a means to an end.

And then it turned into something entirely different.

Like the Bucs giving a favorite in the playoffs all they can handle is something I could easily see.

Now they have to get there first.

But you see, as they've gotten Mike Evans back, and Evans had an impact in this game, if they could stay healthy, I still like them to take that division.

And yeah, it did look bad.

The Baker injury, I thought he got rolled up on, and I thought it was a knee and the way he was writhing on the ground.

It did not look good.

But what actually happened was he got spiked inadvertently at the end of the play right on his ankle, which had to hurt like hell.

It was like a 300-pound guy just like stomping on his ankle while he was uh while he was on the ground and he went into the tent and uh i think he missed a couple plays but he was back out there and had you know a big run

scramble late in the game as well he's just a tough he's an so he's a tough sob mark uh and uh and he's a really a fun guy to watch but yeah that this is you're right you it was a good way to put that because both teams and fan bases on some level got what they want the panthers that hurts because if they win this game i'm not saying they were gonna go on a playoff run, but they're all of a sudden kind of in the mix in that bad division.

If they could have stolen or hung out in this game, instead, it's more just like a,

you know,

what do they call that?

A

Pyrrhic victory?

Well, that's no, that's when you lose, you win, but you lose like a key player.

No, what is it?

Moral victory?

Moral victory.

I don't know if I'm gonna, but I'm with you on that, too, but what morals are involved here?

No, but it's it, there's let's just let's just bail on it.

We don't know what the exact phrasing is.

Maybe in the comment section they could help us.

But yeah, the Panthers, there's positives to take out of it.

They didn't have any running game.

He throws for 298 yards, second most in his career.

He had a rushing touchdown.

He had, obviously, like I said, the big throw to Thielen and was leading them down the field for the game-winning kick before Hubbard fumbled in OT.

So positive, positive traits.

And who would have thought?

Play the Eagles next week, by the way.

Yeah, well, that's going to be another test.

But who would have thought, Mark, in December we'd be talking about Bryce Young as a player on the rise, especially the way this season started.

And C.J.

Stroud, the guy picked behind him, all of a sudden, like, he's searching and we're trying to figure out who he is.

Just another reminder why you got to let these quarterbacks develop and marinate before we form any final judgments.

All right.

Justin.

What's this?

You ready to talk about the Titans today?

Absolutely.

I think this could be a quicker game recap, right?

This was a pretty quick, uneventful game.

I'm sure you don't want to talk about it very long, but the Commanders fans that are listening right now would love a deep dive on this one.

Two,

Landover.

There are games that conclude with exciting down-to-the-wire finishes, and then there are games that are just completely free of drama.

Titans at Commanders was the latter.

Here's how the first five drives went for Washington's defense and special teams.

Minus 12 yards, punt.

17 yards, punt.

Fumbled, punt return, turnover.

Two plays, fumble, turnover.

Three plays, three yards, punt.

And just like that, it was 28 to nothing.

Jaden Daniels played a nearly perfect game save for one deflection, turned interception.

And this contest was over at halftime.

Final score, Commanders 42, Titans 19.

Yeah, I agree.

And

ahead.

The Titans did show some signs of life a little bit.

End of the first half, they put a drive together, got a score, they got a field goal and a stop coming out of halftime.

And it was like, okay, if the Titans can keep this momentum up, maybe they can turn this into a game.

But then the defense could not get another stop, and the commanders went on to score two more second-half touchdowns.

It was just one of those disaster games from the Titans where the first quarter was so horrendously bad, they couldn't get over it.

And if you just look at from the Titans' last drive to the last drive of the first, of the first half to the end of the game, the Titans actually

won 19 to 14 over that span.

So, like, maybe this could have been a competitive game in another universe without anything.

I mean, but isn't all things completely out of control when you're down?

Like, I don't look at like second half drives when

you're buried in like a 30-point deficit.

Like, a lot of things are changing for both teams.

But you're right.

I thought Will Evas made a couple great throws in this game, too.

Yeah, but when you're down 28-0 and you commit 11 penalties in the first half alone and your longest yardage was six yards in the first quarter, it's like, to your point, Mark, who cares what Will Levis did in the second half?

Like, the game was already an embarrassment at that point.

I mean, for me, this story has to be in a lot of ways, Justin.

Washington really needed a game like this.

Like, this has been a commanders' team that everyone was so excited about.

And then against Philadelphia and Dallas, there was a lot of things to be concerned about, especially on the offense, especially in the running game.

So for them to get 229 yards in this game and for Jaden Daniels, as you're saying, to play at a high level is exactly like the reset that this team needed as we head down the home stretch.

They actually had 267 rushing yards, which is the most running yards in a commander's game for them, for their team since December of 2012.

They steamrolled.

right through the Titans defense, starting on the first drive, Brian Robinson bursting through for a 40-yard touchdown run.

It was like the Titans' defense could not do anything to stop the run.

And this really did look like what we saw from the commanders early this season when they were just steamrolling teams that were clearly inferior and all this wonder about if people are catching up to Cliff's offense and is the Cliff Cliff coming and all that.

It didn't come today.

And maybe that was a Titans' defensive coordinator issue and defensive personnel, lots of injuries issue.

Or maybe the commanders are doing things on offense now to sort of counter the counters that have been placed on them.

And one of those things is Terry McLaurin came into this game leading the league in snaps from that left wide receiver alignment.

And in this one, they started to move him around and they talked about it on the broadcast how that was like in their production meeting with Cliff Kingsbury, how he said he wants to start moving Terry McLaurin around the field and the formation.

And he finished this game with two touchdown catches.

But also on the Cliff offense point, it felt like every time Jaden Daniels threw the ball, he was throwing to a wide open receiver.

Like, again, I don't know if the Titans defense didn't get the memo on how to stop Washington or if Washington is just doing new things now and the Titans were expecting them to keep doing what they had been doing.

But regardless, Washington's offense was clicking on all cylinders.

And I mentioned Jaden Daniels being nearly perfect.

Like he only threw five incomplete passes and yeah, one of those was an interception.

Again, it was tipped off the fingertips of Zach Ertz and Amani Hooker pulled it down.

But it wasn't like, I mean, it was a little high, but it wasn't like a bad decision, bad throw type of thing.

So I think commanders playing like this, I mean, obviously 42 points, but playing like this, they're going to be a very tough team to beat.

And they looked a lot different than the team that had just lost three in a row.

I mean, the Titans definitely didn't get the memo or any memo.

I mean, yeah, there was no memo.

This is a bury the ball game for Tennessee, whose defense has been really good this season.

That has not been a problem, but it was today.

And that 229 number, by the way, was that's yardage from the running backs alone of Washington.

You also had 34 yards rushing from Daniels.

So a dominant effort by the commanders in a game they really needed.

One more before Sunday night football.

Sess dog to the bayou.

Rams, Saints, first half.

Disturbing text messages flow in from Ace reporter Jordan Rodrigue as the Rams begin to tumble into meaninglessness.

The Sean McVay Rams offense is stopped up, deliberate, almost identity-free, even when healthy.

Suddenly shut out for the first time in the regular season under Sean McVay.

But after Orange Orange slices at halftime, they lean into punishment, unfurling Kyron Williams and Blake Coram right into the belly of the Saints.

Stafford comes out of the break going 8 for 9 for 100 plus on back-to-back touchdown drives.

Hard-charging Puka Nakua rumbles in for a third, and the defense steps up as the most important time with rookie sensation Jared Verse blowing up Derek Carr in the red zone on fourth down with the Saints marching to tie the game.

Lipstick on a pig, as Dan said earlier, lipstick on a Ram.

It's lipstick on some sort of farm creature, but the Rams overcome their issues to stay afloat.

They're 6-6.

Rams 21.

Saints 14 in a largely unwatchable contest.

Yeah, it seemed like that from a distance.

But, you know, we've talked about teams that have struggled in the red zone.

The Rams, I guess, saved their bacon, pig, farm,

three for three in the red zone.

So that when you're, when two middling or worse worse teams are squaring off, the team that gets it done in the red zone probably will find a way.

And that's what happened here, wasn't it, Mark?

Yeah, I think the one thing that changed a lot, because they ran well on this one drive in the first half and then started to throw the ball.

And it was like a rash of incompletions and they melted down on fourth and four, a key fourth and four where Stafford, you know, whips the ball.

I think it was the Cooper Cup in the end zone.

There seemed like a miscommunication there.

And it was just like, what's going on with these guys?

Like, everyone's relatively healthy now.

Like, this doesn't look like the better moments from the Rams.

In the second half, they came out determined just to bludgeon the Saints and tire down their defense.

And when the run game works, other things start to work.

That's what happened today.

And, you know, from a Saints angle, they hung around.

Marcus Valdez-Scantling has been good for them on the deep ball.

You know, that was what they had earlier in the year before injuries hit.

And so that kind of kept them in this game.

Alvin Kamara, a big day, but it looked like kind of every Saints game.

It just looked like every Saints game.

And it looked like a lot of Rams Rams games.

And so I'm not surprised it kind of came down to the final frame.

But I don't know what to take away from it other than the fact that the Rams look six and six to me.

I mean, they just, that's who they are right now.

And there's little players to like and moments to like, but then there's a lot of frustration.

And with the 49ers fading out of relevance here, especially as Christian McCaffrey limps off the field in the first half in Western New York today, six and six is going to be enough to keep you in the race in the NFC.

And so

you can get by even on a day when you're not at your best.

By the way, this is a great stat that really speaks to Sean McVay,

what he's been able to do with Los Angeles.

This is the first time ever in the regular season that McVay Rams offense was shut out in the first half.

And only the second time overall, do you know what the other game was?

The Super Bowl.

Super Bowl 53, that dreadful loss.

I did include that in my intro, but I think it needed to be stressed again.

Yeah, but I very much, I think I'm glad we it looked like it.

And I'm not saying that, like, remove the sarcasm.

Like, it was notable because it's like they had no answers, and they at least came out with, I think Jordan stopped, you know, she was sort of Doom texting us about the team, and like it kind of quieted down a little bit because

they started to look like themselves.

She might not want you to share that she's doom texting about the team while

doing her beat duties.

Did you ever, did that ever cross your mind?

Well, I would say it was very fair and balanced.

It was journalistic.

And by the end of the game,

she was giving us a different fair and balanced story.

Both sides of the story.

Both sides.

Inverted pyramid.

It was on the bottom.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

One little thing.

It was like a trip to J school, just reading that.

Well, it was.

And so I had to pause what I was doing to sort of consider some of the lessons being taught.

But Taysom Hill went out in this game.

I do think Skyrizzy wants to use him a ton.

And so

he's got almost a Sean Payton-like Taysom Hill fetish.

And

I don't know when we'll see him again.

I don't know if

there's going to be any more Sky Rizzy magic now.

You have that Besacea bump.

They got two dubs.

Is it possible the Saints don't win another game this year?

Certainly possible.

But we'll always remember.

We'll always remember Sky Rizzi at the top of his game for two weeks, collogging toilets and

banking dubs.

Classic interim coach actions that fade into almost nothingness by the end of the year.

And on

we go to Sunday night football.

Thank you, Carrie.

Yes, it was beautiful.

Beautiful football weather in Orchard Park on Sunday night, where the Buffalo Bills and San Francisco 49ers did battle.

Two teams that

appear to be Super Bowl contenders entering the year, but only one actually seems to fit that bill now as we enter enter December football.

Bills 35, 49ers 10.

Another calamitous evening for San Francisco, Mark Sessler.

I know we were all in agreement that this felt like a tough situation.

The banged up Niners once again missing Trent Williams.

Brock Purdy clearly not 100%.

All the other injuries that they've been dealing with this season.

But, you know, it was almost

when Christian McCaffrey takes one false step and crumples to the ground, not to be seen from again, and, you know, a very decent chance we don't see him until 2025,

the way it looked there.

I mean, it just sums up everything that went wrong for San Francisco this season as they're 5-7.

And on the flip side, the Bills with another complete effort, clinching the AFC East once again.

Clinching it earlier than...

any team has in 15 years in terms of a division.

And that speaks to the division itself, but also what they're rounding into, who they're becoming.

And this was kind of an interesting day in the NFL because we started on Sky Sports talking about a string of MVP candidates.

And there was Lamar Jackson, who took a big national game hit today.

There's Saquon Barkley, who I think becomes more relevant as a real conversation piece for those who only wanted to be a quarterback.

But then there's Josh Allen tonight.

And it's not because Josh Allen likes statistically threw for 400 yards, but how versatile, how incredible.

I mean, one of the plays of the season occurs that leaves us all slightly befuddled statistically, if we want to talk about that, to get out of that.

I mean, that was the biggest play of the game.

Well, yeah, that's how this game will be remembered.

Josh Allen on,

you know, this game was already getting away from San Francisco, but Allen throws it to his left.

Who had the catch on the play?

Amari Cooper.

Amari Cooper makes the catch.

He's about to get wrapped up for a tackle.

Josh Allen alertly kind of starts sneaking up behind the play.

Cooper alertly tosses it to Allen, who then shoots down the sideline and dives for the pylon for an outrageous hook and ladder touchdown.

And I think what you're referring to, Mark, is what people across America and beyond are freaking out about that Josh Allen ends up getting credited with a passing touchdown and a receiving touchdown on the play, which is one of the all-time fantasy bad beats people that are out there that lost that way.

I feel your pain.

But also, like to the point, yeah, we were on Sky Sports and I talked about, I said Allen was my pick and I even said like tonight felt like a for the MVP, you have to have big performances in island games and for them to stomp the Niners and really put the Niners on the on the brink of total irrelevance and to have that memorable play potentially the play of the year

on the same day Lamar Jackson faltered.

Really, I think, and I'm sure the odds makers see it this way, and that's not what it's all about for the Bills, but the fact that they're chanting it in a delirious

Orchard Park MVP, MVP.

They have a special quarterback who it just feels like it's his time right now, and you want to see how far he can take this thing.

Yeah, it does.

It's all this is sort of pitch perfect, and it's happening on the right stage.

That moment to happen tonight in

the uniqueness of a Buffalo snowstorm.

There was a photo that the Bills tweeted out that we can show you later, but it is him diving towards the end zone after that play, and it's beautiful.

But to find later,

it's the last game of the day.

I'm going to release it

somewhere like this evening.

I don't know.

But go look it up.

Do a little homework.

But

it's beautiful.

But

first of all,

the NFL has obviously guidelines around this.

But I like this tweet real fast from Steve Palazzolo of

Check the Mike, who used to be with PFF.

He said, Josh Allen is the first player in NFL history to have a passing touchdown, a receiving touchdown, and a rushing touchdown on two plays.

I mean, that happened tonight, literally.

But like, so if you go watch the replay, how do you, like, I just want to know your opinion on this because, like, I don't know how you can call that a receiving touchdown.

And in the box score, he's got a receiving touchdown and a rushing touchdown for the same play.

And, like, here's the thing.

Number one, it really looked to me, and I know that maybe with the snow, all that stuff had changed, but like, Amari Cooper is clearly stopped in his tracks.

Forward progress is stopped, and he still lets go of the ball.

The ball then goes back to Josh Allen, who scores, but that's not a, the wouldn't you say that the pass, the moment, the part of the play that it was a pass has ended, and then it turns into a, you called it a hook and ladder.

But that's not a forward pass.

That's a lateral that he runs in.

So it's like, whether you lost in this in fantasy or you're just sitting here wondering because it's late at night, like, what is happening here?

Like, how can you call that a passing touchdown?

Like, someone explain it to me, and I'm sure someone will, but it's like, to the naked eye, like, I don't get how the part of Amari Cooper catching the ball, which he clearly did, nearly being stopped in his tracks, but then somehow getting the ball out without them stopping the play, Allen catches it and it's a passing touchdown.

I don't know, man.

I don't know.

Look at how often do I get worked up about this stuff?

This one kind of blew my mind because I'm just like, No, I know where you're coming from.

I get it.

And trust me, if I had lost the fantasy matchup on that play, I'd be going nuts.

But if you're asking for an explanation, it doesn't make any sense to me.

It seems like something that should be corrected because

you can't get credited for two scores when there was only one actual score.

But I don't know.

Maybe that's just the story of the game.

That's just that Buffalo magic.

And this is a team that's won the division and owned the AFC East.

They essentially took it over from the Patriots and have not let go.

The Dolphins nearly took it last year, but gagged down the stretch, and Buffalo took the division.

This year feels very different, though.

And, you know, I talked about it earlier with the Chiefs that

to me, my opinion on the Chiefs has started to shift, where I do see them as not just this team that drives you crazy and they always find a way.

No, I think they're a team that's ready to be taken out.

And I say that because I'm thinking about specifically the Buffalo Bills.

And I just, the way they're playing, and they're one game behind Kansas City.

So, you know, and that's important, you know, to get the home field advantage would be great.

But I think the Buffalo Bills absolutely could go into Kansas City in a big spot and

win there as well.

I think this is a team that is built for January.

I think they are well-rounded.

I think they're well-coached.

And for San Francisco to catch this version of the Bills was very bad news from the start.

So, you know, I guess maybe we could turn, Mark, and just say, where do we stand on the Niners?

Are we sticking a fork in them?

I would think, at least informally, we've already done our fork process for 23, 24.

But like, if you're going to tell me McCaffrey's done for the year, I just don't see a path forward.

I think it's just one too many losses.

No, and, you know, I understand there's no Brandon Ayuk there and there's, there's people out, but

they're not more banged up at this point in the season than

the state of the players on the field, like a Purdy may be in question, but they can't just point to that.

And they're not, but they're losing games decisively.

They were absolutely blown to pieces last year.

And they worked last week against the Packers.

They were compromised.

This was a no-show again.

And it's, it's like...

Where's Debo Samuel this year, by the way?

When they went to the game.

Well, I don't know.

Outside of some big kick returns,

like, you're right.

You're right.

And it's almost like we used to say there's so many weapons that it's impossible to contain them, but maybe they only function that way.

Like, maybe they need all those pieces on there for them to shine individually.

Because now that a lot more is on Debo Samuel, he's been outplayed by Juwan Jennings multiple times.

So I'm with you.

I think it's just been depressing.

Yeah, and like the,

it's not been just the offense either.

It's been the offense that's kind of stood out because of how great it's been

for much of the Kyle Shanahan tenure.

But, you know, I thought that the last Allen touchdown, the scramble for the score where he's just like Fred Warner is in pursuit.

And I talked about Warner last week that since he had that knee injury in week four, his play has really fallen off.

It's just, again, symbolic of an entire San Francisco team that sometimes these narratives feel too neat and tidy, Mark.

But in this case, it really feels like the Niners are a team that

got so close in that Super Bowl, and it was like one deep playoff run too many for this team.

And they need to find a way how to dream it all up again.

So I feel comfortable personally saying, even in an NFC West, that is no great shakes.

And five and seven isn't a death warrant playing in that division, but it's getting pretty close.

I just don't see enough from from this team that there's going to be a big rise.

So, you know,

I kind of thought this would be their rock bottom moment, and they get the Bears, Rams, and Dolphins in the next three weeks.

But I don't see any sure wins there either.

I think this is just a season that's gotten away from San Francisco.

Now they're on a three-game losing streak.

And I just don't see them closing here.

I think they're going to miss the playoffs outright.

That's the way I feel right now.

I'm with you.

I think that there was reason to shrug off too much negativity negativity like, you know, five, six weeks ago, four weeks ago, waiting to see if this was just one of those sort of mid-season issues.

But no, there was no fight tonight.

One little note, because

I think the thing about a team going into Kansas City and winning, I still don't like that idea.

Like, here's Kansas City's schedule.

They've got the Chargers.

They're at Cleveland.

They've got the Texans.

They're at Pittsburgh and then at Denver.

There is a real world where the Bills can

even things up here.

And if this if this ever went through Buffalo, I think we've got a very different Super Bowl.

And that's all they have to do because they have the tiebreaker by virtue of beating the Chiefs at home earlier in the year.

So, yeah, it's all in front of the Bills, and we don't want to get ahead of ourselves and dream.

But, you know, the Bills have never won the Super Bowl.

They went four years in a row famously in the early 90s and fell short every time and have been trying to get back ever since.

The Lions have never been to the Super Bowl.

Those are the two teams that that feel like as we head towards the home stretch here of the regular season, that will be the teams a lot of people are going to be rooting for.

But, you know, we see what's going on with the Eagles.

They have really turned into a

big-time team.

And as much as I starting to wonder if the Chiefs are vulnerable, they're obviously a

major impediment to Buffalo getting over the hump.

So it's going to be a fun stretch run.

And the playoffs, at least the top seeds of the playoffs, I feel like this is shaping up for a great

finale to the regular season of the playoffs.

Yep.

I think like the

addition of a couple other little teams in there, like it's like a Steelers, where it's like you're putting them a tier lower, and I get that, but

weird stuff happens.

Weird stuff happens.

I agree.

You're right.

You're right.

I should start putting them in that same category the way they're playing.

And I'm sure there's Vikings fans and Packers fans that say, yeah, don't forget about us.

So, yeah, it's a bit of a top-heavy league right now.

And the Bills are certainly part of that group, and the 49ers are decidedly not.

All right, Mark, we got one more game to cover in week 13, which is

well, it's the Cleveland Browns going to

get that.

Going to Denver, which has been a very kind place to them historically in my life.

Denver's always been a welcoming city for the Cleveland Browns.

Wonderful things have occurred there.

I believe younger listeners might not be aware, Mark, that you're referring, of course, to

the drive.

Or was it the fumble?

The fumble.

Yeah,

the drive happened in Cleveland, then the fumble.

Do a Wikipedia search.

Or do a YouTube search and find out where childhood

can discontent can start to grow.

Like anything in Mark that compels you to find him interesting, like when I talk about Dark Sessler or the quiet storm or just these elements of mystery and perhaps darkness to Mark's personality behind that shiny veneer and genial personality that all comes from the Denver Broncos and the Cleveland Browns.

I think you're not entirely wrong.

So, that'll be a good thing to talk about on Monday night.

So, make sure you're there for that.

Make sure you are subscribed on YouTube.

Youtube.com/slash at heed the call.

Pod?

Justin, help me.

Yes, pod.

Very good.

Youtube.com slash at heed the call pod.

Hashtag 48.4.

We're looking to get to that magical number and subscriptions, and we're slowly but surely working our way there.

And that's pretty much it.

So another flagship in the books.

Until next time, this is

the Zuzzer signing off for the quiet storm, Connor Orr somewhere.

We got another

ominous update.

A lot's happening.

Yeah, from Connor that his daughter woke up out of a slumber after we finished taping earlier and projectile vomited against the wall.

So

tough.

Tough run for Connor.

Tough for the wall.

I mean, it's not a great time to be the wall.

Now the wall's in a tough spot, too.

So I hope everybody gets better in the Orr household, and we hope you join us next time.

Until then, heed the call.

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