Hot Butt Rankings 2024 Update + Thanksgiving Day Previews

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Nope.

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The Heed the Cow Podcast.

Would love to hear your turkey is actually bad take one more time.

Bad boy alert.

Yeah.

We get it.

Oh, turkey sucks.

Ugh.

Not interesting.

Doesn't do much for me.

Don't really care your thoughts on turkey, ultimately.

Dan Hansis, Mark Zessler, heed in that call.

Sestog, you're back to eating your carnivore on some level now.

Turkey take?

Go ahead.

Well, no, I'd say for me, like, I always enjoyed it as a child, so like, I don't have any hot take that it's not,

you know, enjoyable.

The only thing I would say is it's just like, it's not something people seem to eat at other times of year, but even that's a tired take.

So, it's like, just enjoy it.

Don't show up to someone's house and start unfurling like bullet points about turkey issues.

Like, that seems rude to me.

I don't think that's what we do on this holiday.

Right.

And if you are Thanksgiving coming up on Thursday, and we're going to get to the Thanksgiving preview in just a bit, but if you come to somebody's house with your

warmed over, microwaved turkey is actually a bad take, don't say it near the guy or the girl.

Could be either.

Either could be cooking it.

Who prepared that bird for hours, as I will be

on Thursday morning and into afternoon.

Keep your takes away from me and show some goddamn respect in my house.

Yeah, well, you would probably, you know, you'd, you'd handle them quickly, but I don't know who, I think you'd already vet the guests enough to know that that's not the kind of person you'd invite over to your house.

Your house is a castle, from what I understand, from what I know.

So like there aren't going to be those kind of individuals seeping into your household.

If you've been in my house, it's certainly not a castle.

Well, I mean, you treat it like a such, in the sense that it's a pure place.

That wouldn't go that far.

Let's welcome in our regular

Tuesday show, bro.

Tuesday, bro.

Connor Orr, wearing his Grateful Dead hat, of course, on brand.

Conman, do you have any Thanksgiving takes?

My only one, it was actually leftover from Sunday.

Leftovers, get it.

And

in the broadcast booth, Burkhart and Brady are going back and forth.

And they're like, Tom, he'll next Thursday, you know, pie and stuffing.

And I'm like, why are we talking to this guy like he eats normal shit like the rest of us?

Like, he doesn't.

And he doesn't know what stuffing is or mashed potatoes.

He doesn't understand it.

And so let's not pretend he's an earthling, you know?

Let's not, he doesn't get to be a part of this, you know.

But one question for you: do you think that now that he's not doing like plyometrics and um on the Tom Brady diet, which kind of came and went like in terms of a fad?

Like, do you think a fad for no one, but do you think that um he's resorted to more of a normal eating schedule?

He's divorced now, he's kind of like rolling around, he's got a new life.

Did he ditch all that, or do you think he's still religiously stuck on that diet?

He still has a nutritionist, he still has a chef, he still has all the other accoutrements that one needs to live the elite multi-millionaire life.

And I think he likes looking really good and looking better than us, despite being

older than us.

Well, not in your case, Mark.

But you look pretty good, too.

Not Brady good, but you look very good for your age.

I do not look Brady good.

And also, a lot of it's just like you try to get the light to go a certain way in here.

Like if you were to just be here in the room, you'd be like, what the hell is going on with this guy?

Quick Brady thing, by the way.

Because, you know, I was tortured for 20-plus years by Tom Brady as a football fan, but I was doom scrolling on Instagram this morning, and I came across, he was at a card show, and it was, you know, one of these high-end card shows where guys have, you know, million-dollar collections, and Brady's there, and people are around him, and he's, and the guy that's the owner, the proprietor, he's on the other side of the table, and he explains to Brady that he was able to live his dream of doing this for a living, being a guy that buys and sells cards because of Tom Brady's rookie card, which banked him so much money he was able to quit his regular job and begin this as a career and I was really taken aback Tom first of all bought like six high-end cards from him and Tom said exactly what you'd want to actually play that uh for us uh Justin you got a great collection

I was a high school teacher for 13 years I left to do this full-time and you having your cards was a huge research then I bought my dream house from selling and billing and dealing your cards so I appreciate it man appreciate it love hearing that I appreciate it all right well we're going to get these.

Awesome.

Everybody I do a deal with, I got to give a post-it to them.

So, there you go.

Love it.

Yep.

Love it.

These are great.

Congrats on your success.

I was like, damn it.

Don't be a good guy.

I want to just be against you, but maybe you're a nice guy, and it's warming my heart in this holiday season.

So

that changed me a little bit.

I'm a changed man after Doom scrolling on Instagram and seeing Tom Brady be nice to a card dealer.

Why that easy?

You're willing to evolve.

That's how I'd put it.

That's why you're the host.

That's why you're an important figure

in the industry.

Find a way to pound this thing in there.

All right, before we go,

we have got Justin on Thanksgiving week.

Oh, he's already on vacation.

Chocolate bars at this point.

We have like seven shows this week.

My wife's on vacation.

To a new corner of the universe.

You gave him a note before the show to just attempt to kind of tone down these sound drops.

Did you notice I was trying to be be subtle about it?

Yeah, subtle and in an instructive, caring, mentor-type way.

And instead, he's jumped off into the deep end of the abyss.

Before we get to the previews of the game.

Justin has been an asset to us, man.

Mark, do we have to fire Justin?

Is this what it's getting to?

I think so.

We've got other options.

Let's give him another week.

Let's see how the rest of these shows go.

Right, looking for a new producer over the holiday week, it seems like a lot of work.

So we'll just deal with it for now.

All right, before we get into the Thanksgiving previews, let us welcome in another friend,

underdog compadre, man of the people,

ace in the world of fashion and professional football coverage.

It's James Palmer.

Wow.

Wow.

Speaking of Brady, did you notice, I know, James, you really do care about your appearance, and you look good.

You look good.

I was thinking back to the old days in the 90s when you would cut up to Madden and Summerall and they just had like a crumpled up like blue like Fox on NFL jacket on and their hair wasn't even combed.

And now that booths are multi-million dollar businesses on a whole other level, every time they flash up to Burkhart and Brady, it's basically like, I feel like I'm on a runway in Paris with the outfits that they're wearing, a totally different aesthetic than the old days.

And I'm not saying the new days are worse than the old days, but it's much different.

Everyone looks a lot more cleaned up now.

They do.

They do.

And listen,

being a gentleman that spends most of his life just waist up is what people worry about.

I still rock the full suit and dress shoes like a goddamn grown-up.

I wear them to a game.

I don't wear the sneakers with the suit that everybody

over these days.

It gets me going.

And Brady's rocked in the dress shoes, which I appreciate.

And he's always had great style.

Outside of the UG ad that he had in the magazine, remember where he was like laying there and he had like the Uggs on?

Outside of that, his fashion has been on.

James, let me ask you one quick question because I noticed a trend at our previous place.

Over the last five years, we're like with the sneakers thing.

And it's like we've got people working on television and like they have like they're dressed like 12-year-old boys like on air.

Like if you're seeing their entire like wardrobe and they've got like 80 pairs of sneakers.

Like

what happened there?

It's an epidemic because this is where journalism has gone.

I remember,

I'm going to roast him right now and I feel really bad because I love him.

I remember doing good morning football a year or two ago, back when it was in New York, the old days,

and Kyle Brandt telling me, I tell young journalists, if you want to get into this business, buy a pair of Jordans.

I said, what?

He said, yeah, buy a pair of Jordans.

Then the players will talk to you.

That's the advice I give.

I said, oh boy, journalism has fallen.

This is our inn in a locker room as a pair of J's as an adult man.

Connor, you seem to be taken aback by some of Palmer's commentary.

I mean, as someone who dresses like a 12-year-old boy, I'm highly offended.

But no, some of that does resonate.

There was a Giants player back when I covered the team and Sage veteran, someone that I ended up becoming very close to, and he pulled me aside one day and he said, Do you know why no one takes you seriously?

And I said, Why?

And he said, Because you dress like a f ⁇ ing idiot.

And so

I'm burner blowtorch.

Or no, just advice.

I went to HM that day and I bought some clothes, which at the time was a big deal for me.

So yeah.

What were you wearing?

I could kind of picture it like the Connor that I that I met, jeans, maybe some like brown like work boots, and then like a like a parka pullover with a ratty hat, something like that.

Jams.

Picture an unmade bed.

That's sort of what it looks like.

But listen, we've all been around longer.

You know, there's plenty of journos out there that are like, shoes aren't even tied when they go into the locker room.

Like there are writers that are

just like, flies are down, shoes untied, been up for three days.

It's a look.

The greatest thing I ever witnessed in a locker room was,

I'm trying to remember which Super Bowl it was.

It was one of the Patriots ones, I think.

And Larry Fitzgerald Sr.,

Jr.'s dad, who was, you know, he was in Minneapolis, Minnesota area, covered football for decades and decades.

But Larry was not,

Larry Sr.

was not the guy that

is hustling around the locker room.

He kind of, I watched him over a period of a few years because I'd see him in these Super Bowl locker rooms every year.

And then one year he took it to the next level where I came into the locker room and there's a folding chair in the middle of this locker room as players are celebrating the Super Bowl win.

And Larry's just sitting on the chair in the middle of the

godfather.

And I'm like, that is absolutely a godfather move because, you know, what are you going to do?

The only other person I saw sitting on a folding chair, and this one is etched in my mind as well,

is the Bashadi, the owner of the Ravens.

Mark, you might have walked in there with me.

I can't remember.

Somebody was with me.

We both saw that.

We turned the corner.

This is after the Ravens beat the Niners at the Superdome in,

what would that have been?

48, 47.

And

there's Bashati with these gleaming veneers and a big shitting grin with a hat turned backwards and a giant stogie just puffing on it.

And I was like, oh, this is the oligarch life.

I'd like to get in on this.

Oh, yeah.

Just like,

this is my kingdom.

I am a champion vibe.

Anyway.

Should have been carried in.

Big old chompers, but big old smile.

Remember the Duracell guys in the 90s, those commercials?

Yeah.

All right.

City's a castle.

Now,

James.

Yes.

How are you, by the way?

What have you been up to?

I'm wonderful.

Underdog coverage.

Where have you been?

Oh,

we're having a dynamite time, me and Stevie.

He doesn't want me to call him that.

Me and Steve.

I don't think Steve Smith appreciates anyone, especially a man and a contemporary, calling him Stevie.

I feel like that is a killable offense.

Hence why I did it here and not on our show.

I've never called him Stevie until just now.

We're having a great time.

I mean, listen, I've learned, like, Steve and I have always been friends forever, and I remember covering him.

We weren't really friends then, but I remember covering him.

And now, like, the work he puts in, like, the film study is out of this world like i we do these route of the weeks that i learned so much from a receiver standpoint that has been crazy but i also love that underdog sends me to a game every week i'm still hitting the road i'm still the face is getting out there we're still on the sideline i did random ziggles on sunday night which was i like saquon had an okay day but it was it was all in all a pretty decent uh sunday night at sofi it's been fun to be back on the road guys back on the road where i belong honestly tell my friends well you should have come seen us if you were in laya that's that's on my mind well I was there for less than 24 hours.

Yeah.

Still, we're right in the backyard.

I'm like a town away from SoFi Stadium, but that's cool.

And that's, of course, the 89 podcast with Steve Smith Sr.

and James Palmer.

Like, you got to put Sr.

on the end of that name.

You do.

Forget about it.

Steve Smith's not even good enough.

You say Stevie?

That's how you end up.

I should have properly said it probably like Hall of Fame semifinalist Steve Smith Sr.

is probably what I should have said.

The good thing is he'll never listen to this.

Yeah, no Twitter snitches on this one, okay?

This is important.

This is James's life that's on the line.

Yeah.

Let's, um, so James is back.

Yes.

Uh, because uh, before the season started, uh, James was with us on the conversation when we talked about our annual hot butt conversation, ranking the coaches who were, you know, in the most danger to the safest entering a new season.

And now, as Thanksgiving is right around the corner, which always marks the unofficial home stretch, obviously, of the regular season, It also means the home stretch for these coaches who potentially are either doomed or on the

right on that line, Mark, where these last four or five weeks could determine whether they get another year with their club.

So, this felt like a good time to check back in.

Yeah, and this is where we insert the line that, like, we're not rooting for this.

You know, this is that there's a lot of gravity around celebrity.

These are men's careers, you know.

So, let's do it right around a family holiday.

These are people.

Yeah.

No, that is a great reminder, Mark, the disclaimer that we don't, this isn't a celebration.

It's just a reality that 25% of the NFL coaches tend to get wiped out every year.

So

without further ado, let's check out the list.

It was a list that I came up with initially, and then we, as a group, made a couple of tweaks.

I remember Dennis Allen, for instance,

James, who has his ear to the ground,

said, hey, we got to get him into

the last category, the basically doomed category.

And sure enough, he did not make it.

So let's take a look at

our list.

And so what we're going to do here, and Justin, as he always does, by the way, you want to have a successful podcast?

Get a great producer.

And

he please write that down.

He's a master with the graphics.

Like, he nailed this.

He's the best in the game.

Justin, even when we give you some guff about your drops and maybe the Titans' helmet spinning too fast and maybe kind of squatting on this pre-engagement a little too long, leading people to question your sincerity and your relationship.

All that stuff set aside, you're a good man and a great producer.

Thanks, Dan.

Remember when you wanted to fire me five minutes ago?

Wow.

Just for roller coaster, you'd call it.

So anyway, this is going to be the list from, I'm going to say, James, it was probably around September 2nd or something.

We did that exercise right before week one.

And then we can move,

right?

Justin, we'll be able to kind of move these things around.

So we have four categories: Stone Cold Safe, likely bulletproof, but I'd put a vest on just in case in parentheticals.

Quote, we need to show progress.

That's like a GM/slash owner mandate typically, and that's a very hot seat.

And then, of course, the, and this is crazy, Mark, for a movie that is like 40 years old, brought up for the second time in 12 hours on our air.

The Ghost Memorial Whoopi Goldberg.

Molly, you and Danger Girl.

And that means you're pretty much doomed.

So let's start though on the Stone Cold Safe and let's see if we need to move anyone out of this category into a slightly less secure category or on the flip side, move people from the more dangerous categories into Stone Cold Safe.

So I'm going to go down the list and please raise your hand where you want me to stop.

Here we go.

Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan,

Sean McVay, Dan Campbell, D'Amico Ryans, Jim Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin,

Matt LaFleur, John Harbaugh.

Okay, Connor has his hand up.

What do you think?

You think this is, where should he be moved?

I just think he's, if I'm not mistaken, towards the end of or right at the end of a contract.

So I just think that that's always a time when you have very big picture conversations about where you're going, what you're doing.

And so I just, you know, I'm not saying that he's done anything that's been fireable, but I just think that there is a, there is a,

there is going to be a moment where he talks to ownership, I think, about what he wants to do in the future.

And I'm picking up what you're putting down here.

It's the Steinbrenner doctrine.

Maybe it's the Vashati doctrine.

Anything less than a championship is considered failure.

If this team, and I'm not trying to speak this into existence and all the Lamarmie, chill out.

But if they have another dud, let's say either in the wild card round or they do get a buy or whatever and they or they flame out in the divisional round and Harbo's contract is tolling, yeah, maybe that is a time where ownership gets a little itchy with the trigger fringe.

Are you hearing anything on that end, James Palmer?

That's why my hands up.

Connor's not crazy,

which, like it says on his bracelet.

But listen, I do think it's an old David Tell joke.

I have kind of heard like a small rumbling, like, could this happen?

Like, nobody around the league is talking, like, keep an eye on Horrible, but like, there has been a couple times I've heard like, could this be it?

And I was like, what?

And now I'm, Connor says that I believe it even further.

I do get a sense that that's a little bit of the thinking now.

I was at that AFC championship game in Baltimore.

I haven't seen much of a letdown compared to that.

in recent memory in terms of a game there an entire you know organization is like this is it

and then they don't come through with it if that happens again.

I am curious we went through these whispers with Harbaugh like you know when the last contract was was ending and I guess my problem with this is like unless he wanted to go somewhere else like

they've not won the Super Bowl, but it's like recently but what what on earth are you who are you gonna get that's better than this?

I guess like you better have a real secure idea on what comes next because

picture this though Mark a scenario where they have in

a humiliating playoff loss.

And

I guess what's to come could change that, but like they don't.

Harbaugh is about as consistent as it gets, but you're right.

No change should be shocking at this point for any of these teams.

All right.

So do we want to move?

Let's move John just because of the circumstances around his contract and the pressure, quite frankly, on everyone involved with that team.

Let's move Harbaugh to likely bulletproof.

Okay.

This is cool.

All right.

This is how the sausage is made.

Look at these.

Living, breathing, document right here.

I love that terminology.

Some of my favorite corpo speak.

Oh, this is a living-breathing document.

Feel free to jump in.

It's like, oh, how exciting.

I feel alive.

All right, let's continue down the Stone Cold safe list.

There's a few more.

Kevin O'Connell of the Vikings?

Certainly.

Zach Taylor, the Vangles.

Yes.

James is raising his hand.

So is Mark.

So is Dan and Connor.

Let's discuss.

Connor not, but let's talk about it.

So yeah, obviously it's been a very disappointing season.

There's Justin raising his hand, very disappointing season in Cincinnati.

And yeah, I think it takes, unless they have a really hot finish,

I would think he is vulnerable now in a profound way.

I don't know if I would put him like, you know, a couple tiers down, but I'm certainly open to moving him at least one.

Go get John Harbaugh.

Yeah,

let's not try to

workshop it too much.

Let's assume that John Harbaugh's back.

But, like, yeah.

My thought is that traditionally the Browns are very patient.

I know the Browns have a very close relationship with the Taylors.

They wanted to end.

The Bangles, you mean?

What's that?

The Bengals, you mean?

Well, you're talking about the Browns in the Bangles.

Sorry, I said Mike Brown.

Oh, geez.

The Browns within the Bangles.

Yeah.

Okay, that was tricky.

I felt that.

Okay, my apologies.

I will now move out of the way.

But

they have a good relationship with the Taylors.

Actually, this is like a random factoid, but Mike Brown's wife gifts the Taylors the same kind of special soap that they like every year because they mentioned that they liked it at a dinner once, which is crazy.

But very close,

very

because the Taylor, when they got that job, Zach was a hot prospect and he came to Cincinnati and said, I don't care.

Like, this is where I want to be.

This is where I want to live.

I want to make this my career.

And I do think that meant a lot to them at the time.

I do think the Super Bowl run meant a lot to them at the time.

It allowed them to do a lot of things that they wanted to do as an organization.

So I think that keeps him on solid ground, personally.

I was going to move him a category over until Connor mentioned the soap story, which to me puts him back in Stone Cold Safe.

And the fact that he says he chooses to live in Cincinnati, that he wants to, also keeps him in Stone Cold Safe.

No, but I would say this.

You know what's really hard to do?

It's hard to go into your bye week in, what we just have, week 13,

to go into your bye week with the NFL's leading passer, leading receiver, and leader in sacks and have four wins.

I think that's a really hard thing to accomplish,

but the Bengals were doing it.

But I do think the frugalness of the organization plays in Zach Taylor's favor.

I do think the one score game issues that they're having,

that can swing back in a year.

Like if you really get into like the nitty-gritty of what's happening in one score games, only like Mike Tomlins, the only one that's like consistent over the years in doing this and being successful in one scores.

They can swing from year to year.

I remember just one small example of like I was on the Texans beat

back when I think Wade Phillips was running that defense and they finished first in turnovers and then last in turnovers in consecutive years with the exact same coaching staff and the exact same players.

Like some of these things just swing year to year, and I think that helps his safety if they do understand that this might just be somewhat of an anomaly.

You know, I think the 2024 Bengals are the inverse of the 2022 Minnesota Vikings.

That Vikings team had no business being 13-4, but it just, it worked out that way with a lot of crazy wins.

And then they, you know, were kind of found out by, of all people, Danny Dimes and Brian Dable and the Giants in the first round of the playoffs.

I don't think the Bengals, yeah, I think the Bengals are a very unlucky, unfortunate team that's had a lot of things go against them and gotten in this point.

And I feel pretty confident that ownership, knowing their history, are going to see that as well rather than be like, we need to get the head coach out of here.

He's the problem.

So I think

because the season could totally crater.

The season could totally crater, right?

And then you have to have the conversation.

I think he should be moved down, but I don't know if we need to move him down more than one category.

Does anybody disagree with that?

To me, this screams you're going to make a change at defensive coordinator to pacify.

I think you're right.

And

there's a scapegoat, and it's the coordinator level.

I agree.

Do we want to keep him at Stone Cold Safe or move him to likely bulletproof?

Based on the soap, and like, you know, this is a team that doesn't even have a proper outdoor training facility.

And like, if you do have a really, if he wants to be there, like,

this is one team that feels different than a lot of the rest because of ownership and because of how kind of creaky and different they've been over the years.

So like, I kind of think that relationship that Connor mentioned matters.

I keep them.

All right, let's leave them there.

Let's leave them there.

And by the way, it's a coincidence, but every

Christmas, I give Mark a bar of Irish Spring and then I watch him lather himself in it.

And I don't leave his house until he finishes the full lather.

Well, it's a real tradition, and I think

people should try it out.

It takes hours.

It's a long, it's a cross.

It's a hot, steamy shower.

sitting there with like a like a daiquiri like totally enjoyable we pick a nice day like a post you know after monday night football after we tape on tuesday and we got about six hours and i just watch that soap evaporate into mark's pores like dan dan understands my needs and i understand um dan's needs because i tell mark it's time to get clean it's christmas now we get clean

I don't know why I keep picturing Dan in a lawn chair with a hose.

That's what it is.

I never break eye contact either.

That's the other part of it.

All right.

Finally, Sean Payton is on this list.

Stone Cold Safe.

Certainly he belongs there.

All right.

Likely bulletproof, but I'd put a vest on just in case.

Harbaugh, we already moved.

Kevin Stefansky.

Okay.

Kevin Stefansky.

Mark, where are we moving him?

I would move him down one tier.

I think there's a lot going on there.

I would just mention like the concept.

First of all, he gave up play calling.

I don't love that for starters.

And then they

then improved.

And the quarterback thing and how that's all been handled, I don't know how pleased he's been this season.

But then also there's the figure of longtime Ohio-linked Mike Rabel sitting there.

And I think Mike Rabel is a hot coaching candidate and

does ownership, do the Haslams, Dee, and Jimmy say, wait a minute, our real head coach that we want is sitting right over there.

He also went, I think I mentioned this on a previous show.

He had said in training camp, I'm not going to be part of any sort of game day thing.

I'm more of a consultant and a practice guy.

And he had like a headset or an earpiece on recently.

So I think it's just like there's a growing concern that maybe, or a concern, or maybe you enjoy it if you're a Browns fan, that maybe Stefansky

would be on the move for multiple reasons.

Can we just, Connor, I'll tee you up like this.

It should be pointed out that...

The Browns extended, Stefansky is the reigning coach of the year.

He's won it twice, and they extended him in June.

So if you are to move on from Kevin Stefansky to chase Mike Vrabel or whomever, you're going to eat a ton of money.

And I don't know if the Haslams have that in them, Connor.

You're not going to eat a ton of money, Dan, because of offsets in the contract.

And Kevin Stefanski is a really good head coach.

And if he comes on the market, I would estimate that he's one of the two or three most sought-after coaches on the market.

He'd probably immediately get a job.

And to be honest, I mean, this, if you're Mike Vrabel and you want to coach in Ohio, this thing works in all favors, right?

Kevin Stefanski gets out.

He gets to coach not Deshaun Watson and just do his thing and be a good coach.

Mike Vrabel gets to stay in Ohio and the Browns get the offset.

Like there's a lot of, I mean, you know, there's been a lot of like just theoretical chatter about this in the industry, but this is like a you scratch my back, I scratch your deal that seems to be pretty darn attractive for everybody.

All right.

Let's

go ahead, James.

I have a few nuggets.

One, I thought Mike Vrabel on the Manning cast was funnier than than the Wilson brothers.

I'm a big Grable fan.

I thought he was on fire if anybody watched on Monday night.

I think it was a great audition.

I think he wanted to do it as well to make sure everybody knew that he was on in the fourth quarter and understood situational football still better than all of us, as he was describing it, to both of the Mannings.

Because when you can see Peyton's fat head just like nod like this,

you know you're right about everything.

And so I think that plays into it.

Like just he, he, I was, I had forgotten how good of a coach he is.

Honestly, his rosters were not great in Tennessee, and he still found a way to win games consistently.

I remember that he was in Houston with Deshaun Watson, if that means anything in terms of a relationship and an understanding for the player that he would possibly inherit if he was

in a very weird situation.

I think what the Hazms have to figure out, and I've tried to get to the bottom of this multiple times,

like where were the final decisions being made on whether we're benching Deshaun Watson or not?

Is that fully on Kevin Stefanski?

I don't think so.

And so where do they stand in the decision-making of kind of how this season went?

But I do believe, and I wanted to toss this to the group, shoot,

Zach Taylor, Kevin Stefansky, both available.

Who gets a job quicker?

I think it's Kevin Stefanski.

I do too.

I do too.

Yep.

I would too.

Two-time coaches.

Bring

if I was Woody Johnson, tried to get Stefanski.

And I think it would be a huge mistake on par with the Browns moving on from Baker Mayfield to move on from Stefansky.

Don't tie him to this mess that you created with the other quarterback.

All right, let's keep moving here.

So, Harbaugh, Stefansky, you want to drop Stefanski to the third tier?

Yes.

Okay.

So, Stefanski goes, all right, Shane Steichen.

Mike McDaniel,

Raheem Morris, Brian Callahan,

Dan Quinn.

I think Dan Quinn can move to Stone Cold safe.

Yeah.

Yep.

We haven't discussed the vertical ascent.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Let me go through the rest of the list.

So Move Quinn, Grod Mayo.

We're going to talk about Mayo.

Dave Canales.

I feel pretty good about Canales, but I don't feel good about their owner.

Mike McDonald, Seattle, and then Todd Bowles of the Bucs.

What do you got, Connor?

I think I'd kick him down one.

Ooh.

Interesting.

Who?

Bowles?

Bowles.

Bowles?

I think we've got to have a good back end of the season here.

But I ask you this, can you see a good back end of the season?

Because I can.

I can't.

That's the thing.

Like, the schedule is excellent.

Like, everything is breaking.

I do think that they will win that division, but I think it's unignorable, like this idea that maybe over the last two seasons, you know, you've just been hearing this chatter, like, okay, maybe they want to go in a different direction, but they just kind of keep winning, hanging on.

And, you know, so I don't know.

All right.

And then

I'm with you.

So why don't we drop Todd to one more over to the right?

And then Grod Mayo, I think Mayo is a textbook we need to show progress.

I think Mayo, let me know what you guys think, but I think if the Patriots, how they close here, could really decide whether or not he gets another year.

Because there have been whispers in New England.

And James, I don't know if your reporting has brought up any of this or what you've heard or Connor, what you've heard in

your SI world.

Like,

where does Mayo's seat sit?

And it's been a kind of a, I don't know, at times, rocky debut season as head coach.

My quick point, Connor, is

I've gotten texts from some coaches in other buildings that are like, why the hell is Gerard Mayo getting this heat?

Like that is perception of other guys around the league about his situation.

So I look at that from two angles.

They're curious, so they must be like, why am I hearing this?

And does that mean anything?

Two, apparently their perception is I don't think he deserves some of the Boston heat he's getting right now.

I would agree with that.

I mean, I think if you're craft, I mean, obviously there's a patience thing where you want to turn this thing over quickly.

But what in this season has really not gone

as good as or slightly better outside of the fact of like the coach maybe making a small administrative error by calling the team soft.

And that led to like a week of conversation on Boston radio.

but like you have a rookie quarterback who's playing well you picked the right offensive coordinator who's not really kind of in that upper tier of head coaches that's not going to go anywhere I don't think I think Alex Van Pelt will be around so this is all good you know you've beaten some teams that you shouldn't have beaten you've been in a lot of games so I think this is all positive And you knew your roster wasn't good.

Yeah,

like, didn't Kraft groom Gerard Mayo to do this role for years?

I mean, he's been whispered about, again, whispers, but like, he's been talked about a while as the guy that Kraft, like A, really likes personally.

And so it makes Kraft look dumb if he just, after one season with a bad roster, where the quarterback looks like a lot of promise, you got a big draft pick coming up, a lot can change, and like suddenly you eject your seat him.

That feels like a weird move.

Yeah, a Hall of Fame owner does not want to look.

Wait, I missed button.

Robert

does not want to look foolish.

You know what's kind of ironic is that no

rock and roll star has ever tried harder to get into a Hall of Fame than Bon Jovi, who pulled every

lever and asked for every favor in the book, and they finally put him in a few years back.

But he's mostly famous in terms of that connection to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for how much he wanted it and kind of forced it.

Now his best buddy, Robert Kraft, is trying to do the same thing with the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

So I guess they deserve each other.

Two birds on a feather.

So should we keep Mayo where he is then?

That's what I'm hearing.

Some of this, by the way, Mark, we talked about it when it leaked or it came out.

Greg Bedard, who covers

New England Sports or the Boston Sports Journal, went on a radio station and made some comments about that there's been whispers in and around that building about they weren't sure if they made the right pick.

But I don't, listen, I don't know where Bedard stands in the reporting hierarchy up there.

That was just something that was discussed at the time that kind of lodged in the back of my head.

I mean, he knows the Patriots as well as anyone, I think, but I just think it's a big move and to the point of like, you're going to be paying this guy forever.

Now, craft is more money than like God's three children, but like, so that's probably not a huge issue.

But, I mean, I just don't, I don't see how you can do it and really explain it inside the building to everyone.

I don't know.

Save it for theology podcast, but who are the three children?

Well, we know one of them in theory.

I think the other two are

two or three in theory.

It's kind of like

the Mannings and stuff.

There's a lot of hidden brothers out there probably.

Mark, set a play out.

Connor, help us out.

So we have Jesus seated at the right hand of the Father.

This is some deep Catholicism talking me and Connor right now.

But like, is there two other brothers?

Okay.

No, I just, like, I, like, he's, he's everyone's father, if you think about it, so it's not crazy.

But you said three.

Well, I mean, maybe, you know, maybe I think typically, like, we only know what people wrote down.

We only know what people wrote down.

So maybe he's like, let's have a, that worked out pretty well.

Let's have a, let's try that again and maybe a third time.

The same way that suddenly, you know, your friend has three kids out of nowhere and like their life's totally chaotic.

Do you think God's middle child struggles the same way most middle children do?

I'm a middle child.

It ain't easy.

Let's let's anybody else from that tier?

Let's see.

Okay, let's keep that tier as it it is.

Let's keep moving it.

We need to show progress.

Defansky, Bowles, Sean McDermott.

Let's move Sean all the way to Stone Cold safe, right?

Right.

I'd move him up a tier for sure.

Okay.

Move him to bulletproof, likely bulletproof.

I'd like to, real quick, just state how often the in-season offensive coordinator change just blows up in everybody's face.

And this one went the exact opposite direction.

Yeah.

Joe Brady.

And it's shown us the best Josh Allen we've seen.

And to me, that's a big feather in his cap to go in the right direction.

And also a big feather, just to circle back to Mayo for a second.

In his cap, despite there being, like we said, a lot of hand-wringing about how the Jake Brisket to

Drake May transition was handled.

The fact that May is making progress and is an exciting prospect, that is obviously going to help the head coach get a year or two.

So, okay.

Let's see.

Matt Eberfloos.

I believe Eberfloos is going the wrong way on this.

Are we all in agreement on that?

Yeah, and I think Thanksgiving could be like another gigantic bomb on that whole front, too, if you're on national television.

I would say, like, the fact that it's another scenario where Caleb Williams looks better, but that's not because of Matt Eberflus.

That's the problem for him.

Don't ask Matt that.

He'll take credit for it.

That happened in the press conference this week.

If you saw, well, you know, I hired Thomas.

So

the good lady.

If you heard that press conference, it was I went after hard.

I knew he'd be here.

Yeah, he's got to do what he's got to do.

He needs his good PR.

So, let me hear a little Oda May Brown on that one, Justin.

I like the delay for suspense.

What does that mean?

Molly, you and Danger Girl.

Wow.

Oh, Oda May Brown.

So, you haven't seen the film?

Molly.

You and Danger Girl.

Have I seen Ghost starring Patrick Swayze?

Nope.

Sorry.

I haven't.

Oh, he's so cool.

He's never seen Ghost.

He's so hip.

Ultra dismissive of

the entire concept of it.

All right.

Antonio Pierce.

Okay.

Antonio Pierce.

Connor, should we throw him in the Odome Brown?

Yes.

All right.

Two it.

Yeah.

Human Danger Girl.

All right.

Pierce heading over there to the place you do not want to be.

If you're in that category, you're in a lot of trouble.

Doug Peterson of the Jaguars.

Yep.

Let's slide him over.

These are easy ones.

Listen, you got to get to that number.

It's almost always seven or eight guys that are cooked, and we're getting there.

Manny, you and Danger Girl.

Brian Dable, absolutely.

We got to slide him over also.

I don't care what the reporting is.

I think he is cooked.

Anyone disagree with me?

I think Dable is as.

I'd like to discuss these.

Yes.

Yes.

Dable, I believe he is every bit as cooked as Doug Peterson and and Matt Ebriff-Luce.

I believe the Giants, the last thing they have left is their pride and what they believe they stand for.

And the fact that Dable has is presiding over this mess, I think they are going to hit the reset button hard on the day after the regular season.

Tell me why I'm wrong.

Well, just from an administrative standpoint, having covered the Giants and like a couple of seasons where I thought they were going to fire Tom Coughlin, they don't make a decision the day after.

They always do an owner press conference, and then they go into like a Papal-like cloister, and then you wait for the white smoke to emerge.

Stiffeny franchise.

So it wouldn't happen the day after the season.

I think it would happen like a day or two after the season.

But I really do think that there is a desire on

John's part.

Now you've done it with Ben McAdoo, you've done it with Joe Judge, you've done it with Pat Shermer, and it's as much an indictment on him as anybody.

I think that they want to keep this thing together.

I do.

Can I just say two words, like Bill Belichick?

Could that change all of it?

I'm penciling him in for another one of these jobs.

I am too.

I feel like a lot of the

whisper is rehearing, Mark.

Do you want to say it at the same time, James?

Yeah, you want to do one, two, three?

Okay, ready?

One, two, three, job.

Jacksonville.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Which is, you know, interesting because Tom Coughlin, of course, went to Jacksonville,

and I'm sure they're buddies, right?

But like,

yeah, I feel like,

Mark, you and I, we have this almost nostalgia thinking about the idea of Belichick coming home.

But everything we seem to be hearing is that that's not as likely a thing as perhaps it makes sense to be.

Well, he'd also be inheriting either a no-quarterback situation or a rookie.

It's not probably like the same thing as Trevor Lawrence.

I just, what comes to mind is that old double part football life on on Belichick where he's walking up and down the Giants facility nearly in tears.

And like, so I just wonder if, like, if you're going to close it out, do you close it out in Duval with that situation?

I guess, but I can understand why.

It's just like, or do you go to the bottom?

Vince Lombardi coached for the Washington Redskins.

Like,

these things go in.

Yeah, but that was a different team than the Jaguars.

But I can see why it's attractive and probably the most attractive landing spot.

I think for a few things, Mark, I think, what does he need?

16 wins or something like that?

I think over the next two years in Jacksonville, he can manage eight a year.

And he's going to get full control from an owner that has just been so desperate over the course of these last couple of hires.

And they really thought Doug was it, if you remember.

There were a couple of deep shots connecting from beating.

Kansas City in Kansas City a couple of years ago, and then this thing has skidded out of control.

So I do think he will get whatever he wants down there.

It will be the decision, I think, of Belchek and the rest of the group that'll go with him, which it's a near certainty, I'm told, of Matt Patricia, Josh McDaniels, even the likes of Jack Easterby heading with him to wherever he goes, which is fascinating.

Joe Judge, possibly.

Billy Yo, does he head down there as well?

Who knows?

But I do see it's like, Bill, you can do whatever you'd like.

And I think he can get that record relatively quickly, which I do think is pretty high on Bill's list.

And then, Connor, for knowing the Giants so well,

I agree with you that I had heard and felt that they do not want to part ways with Dayball.

Right now, it looks like it's almost an intentional tank that you can't admit, but you're doing it.

But does this start to, after the comments from players after this past Sunday, have a bit of a Joe Judge?

That's what I'm saying.

That's exactly what I'm saying, James.

So

it's getting into an untenable place, I think.

It's not just before it was a Joe Judge, it was a Ben McAdoo.

If you guys remember, he tried to bench Eli Manning for Geno Smith, and then everyone asked him about it, and he's just like, well, I don't know.

So that was kind of the, that was the first time that I had heard from people in the organization like that this is a sales job.

You have to do a good job selling things when you're talking to people.

Joe Judge was very safe.

He was coming back.

And then he had that hilarious press conference where he just buried Ron Rivera for no reason.

Still one of my favorite all-time moves.

But

not because I don't like Ron Rivera.

Rivera.

I just thought like what of every coach to go after, why go after like a fairly universally beloved, you know, whatever.

Anyway,

so yes, I

don't think they want to do it, but I do think that Brian Dable is not going to want to like shove a reporter in the next three weeks or, you know, flip out at the podium.

And it's hard as the head coach of the Giants.

I remember when I covered the team, my beat partner would always ask the annoying injury questions to Tom Coughlin because it made him upset.

And it got really grating.

And so one day Tom walks by and walks by us at the end and he goes, no more questions, Dick.

And

the guy's name wasn't Dick.

And maybe he thought it was, but

he could have just thought his name was Dick.

But it was funny.

Nobody's name is Dick anymore.

It was a player who like

he was, it was like an illness.

And my beat partner, who's just a legend, was just like, what are we talking?

Like a cold?

Or like, you know,

it got like to that level of granular, and he got very upset.

But Tom could get away with that.

I don't think Brian Dable could get away with that if he did that.

Okay.

And then we got Jonathan Gannon.

It's just so

I'd move Gannon up.

Move him up.

All right, move him.

Go ahead.

I'm not going to fight it.

I just.

Well, do you think

he's on the shot seat stand?

I don't trust the Cardinals at all.

I know you.

I don't know if he's done it.

I feel like they're going to be okay.

So, yeah, I think likely Bulletproof is the greatest spot, but I don't know.

I just, I don't trust them the way everyone else on the show does.

So, I guess that's my one thing.

But, yes, from what they've done, they were in first place before they played on Sunday.

So, from that standpoint, and they've shown a lot of progress.

I think it's all happening quicker than you think, quicker than they expected, honestly.

And I agree.

That's the direction they're headed.

So, let's move him up to likely bulletproof, which leaves only two coaches in the We Need to Show progress category stefansky and bowls and then finally yes the odome brown uh memorial

molly you and danger girl category molly human danger girl we hit on dennis allen uh which we don't celebrate and hit okay i apologize we didn't hit on it we just successfully predicted that dennis allen and robert salo were both in a lot of danger and sure enough they got got um and dismissed in season so the rest of our in danger list right now matt iberflues

added to the list.

Antonio Pierce added to the list.

Doug Peterson added to this list.

Brian Dable added to this list.

Nick Siriani, let's move him out of there.

Yeah,

let's move him to bulletproof, likely bulletproof.

Maybe in the middle.

Are they?

I guess the number one question we have to ask ourselves are, we saw the collapse a season ago.

Are we certain that that doesn't happen?

I did their game on Sunday.

I've been with them enough.

The vibes in the building talking to enough coaches are vastly different than they were a season ago.

And people in the building kind of knew that that was brewing and that they were kind of skating on thin ice, if you will.

And that ice cracked and shattered and they fell into the water like

Jimmy Stewart's younger brother.

And it's a wonderful life since we're around the holidays.

And so,

Harry,

Harry, Harry, yeah.

Everybody in that transport died because you weren't there to save Harry.

Okay.

And so.

We're not there yet, James.

That's true.

But to my mother, it's a 365-day-a-year movie.

And so I do think the vibes in the building are completely different.

And the other thing I heard, and I'm not sure if anybody else has kind of heard or seen whispers of this, the heat that Siriani was under was, from my understanding, much more

from

the external side and not really all that prevalent inside the actual building.

Well, I think in just watching how they behaved at the end of the year, like I think that the Eagles probably could have done a better job internally saying that he was safe, but because there was that week of complete strange silence and everything kind of lingered at that point.

But I do agree with you.

Like, I think that, you know, the general belief of those people there was like, hey, we're coming back.

And they were pretty fired up about Vic Fangio.

My only thing is, like, just from a statistical standpoint, like this has been an unbelievable Saquon season, for example.

But not to like dump cold water on it, and this is going to sound like, you know, kind of a douchey thing to say, but they have not played a top 10 rushing defense yet.

And so, you know, what happens when, you know, you really get into the thick of this schedule and, you know, you start getting some teams that are going to push around.

Now, they have, they've played well against those teams before, but I don't know.

You sound like a WIP caller in Philadelphia.

Like, the sky's falling.

She's from Fishtown.

Yeah.

It could be all the playoff ends for them, like that whole part of it.

But

at this point where we're standing right now, I mean, they completely turned around from last year's complete apocalypse.

And he gets in his way a lot, his own way.

But I feel like that's cooled a bit.

I don't think Nick Siriani is a high-end head coach.

And I think he's almost like a pop star, like a Britney Spears type pop star where his ability to have hits and be successful really rides on the songwriters for Britney and the people behind the scenes.

And so upgrading the coordinators like Kellen Moore and Vic Fangio has really elevated Siriani and saved his butt more than he ever could.

That's my anti-Siriani, I guess, take, but he's set up much better behind the scenes, which he deserves credit for.

He's part of putting that staff together.

So for that reason, I'd move him up two tiers to likely bulletproof.

But if you guys strongly disagree, we could just move him up to we need to show progress i just want to ask if you made the britney spears comparison because they both shaved their heads

curious

good like vh1 uh best week ever auts pop culture knowledge there i like that one um

and then uh let's see the rest of the molly you in danger category is uh mike mccarthy who we've pegged zaddy's got a butt zaddy's got a hot butt and uh he is if if it's hotter than it was in early September.

So there you go.

And then if you do the count, Alan, Salaz, two, Eberf Luce, Pierce, Peterson, Dable, McCarthy, that's seven.

If that ends up being the doomed seven, let's check back in January.

We're not rooting for it, but we're just calling it like it is.

We want to get it right, though.

Right.

But we won't celebrate.

Not overtly.

If we pick it perfect,

there should be a celebration.

We would get together and have it.

We would quietly private

a private Zoom beer.

Like when Mercury Morris, you know, rest in peace and the Dolphins would

toast a team losing

and keeping an undefeated, you know, their undefeated thing going on forever more.

That's kind of what the tone is.

I have one small,

this is just something interesting I heard from an executive, and I wanted to throw this out here to you guys and see what your thoughts are since we're talking about hot seats, jobs changing, and why not throw in Deion Sanders?

I heard an interesting take from an executive, like I mentioned, and I want to know what you guys think.

It was this.

There's a thought around the league a little bit, like Dion to the NFL has a bit of an issue, and this was an interesting thing that I hadn't heard yet, which was the building of the staff and putting the staff together and the maybe possible

difficulties Deion would have with putting together an NFL staff as opposed to if he were to leave for another college job.

Any thoughts on this take from?

I haven't heard the Dion go into the pros thing.

Is it possible that

he would try to

is it possible he would try to LeBron the situation, you know, with Bronnie?

Package deal?

Yeah, where he packages himself with his, you know, his son, who's a, you know, maybe the number one overall pick coming out of Colorado.

Like, would that, would that seem crazy?

He's basically,

in a way, like, been a major trendsetter.

I don't know this world as well, but in terms of the portal system and how the chaos that unfolded once he got there and changed that program for the better, could he have a similar effect on the NFL?

I think it's certainly with Eli Manning,

his son.

They're calling him Archie Manning.

Yeah, it's like, I don't think he's going to be very, there's going to be a bunch of no's.

Yeah, but no, but this would be like if Archie was also like, I'm going to be the head coach, too.

I cannot imagine hiring Deion Sanders as an NFL head coach.

Sorry, I just don't see it.

Like, I mean, first of all, you've only been a college coach for like 700 days.

And that, you know, I mean, I understand what he did transform that program in terms of like media interest, but the idea that you're going to have him take over, and to your point about building the staff, I think the number one thing you want to know in these meetings is like, I can get you these two coordinators, this quarterback coach, and fill in the blanks so that there is absolute rock-solid accountability from top to bottom.

And if Deion is, if the whispers are that Deion can't do that, that packs in with my, the fact that I don't even know if he can be a head coach in the NFL, even if he had that staff.

So it's like, there's a lot of shakies.

And he's Deion.

So it's got to, he's going to take over energy-wise everything.

Am I the only one that has heard these rumors?

No, because I live in Colorado and Deion's right up the road.

I think that the rumors exist.

I think, at least from my, and as I've asked about them, they've, so far, everything has come back unserious.

Right.

But

to your point, James, like, imagine if you were a prospective NFL head coach and you went into one of these meetings and the owner says, who's your guys?

And he says, okay, I'm a hot head coach and my defensive coordinator is Rex Ryan and my offensive coordinator is Pat Shermer.

And everyone's like, no,

I'm good.

Like, that's what Deion's going to do.

You know, like, I think I would guess Rex wants that.

Or, you know, Mike Zimmer was his defensive coordinator for a little while.

Like, it's going to be one of those guys and Pat Shermer.

And I don't know.

That's kind of a hard no for me.

Also, Deion is a bit of a Pied Piper, right?

So there might be a situation where there's enough energy and excitement around it where we might be surprised with who wants to join him and create some super team with a brand new, exciting quarterback.

All interesting stuff.

Defensive coordinator Warren Sapp.

Yeah.

Can I just say this, though?

Yes, let's quickly let's wrap this up.

We got to keep moving here.

Okay, so Sean Lewis was Dion's offensive coordinator the first year.

He was the head coach at Kent State and then came to Colorado.

And there were legitimately NFL people who wanted him to be their offensive coordinator if they got head coaching jobs.

He's now the head coach at San Diego State.

So that could have been a little bit more realistic in my mind.

Go ask Texas.

James, you've said it all.

You know, you know,

we kind of have.

Check out James.

But if you hear that, I thought we usually go for another 30 minutes if you're hour.

Yeah.

Check out James on the 89 podcast with Steve Smith Sr.

Do not call him Stevie.

And also follow Mr.

Palmer on social media and over on,

I believe, YouTube.

Where does your, you have another platform

where you do all your coverage and NFL

the great work that the great James Palmer that YouTube's on to something, I think.

I think that we have a chance, those kids.

All right, James Palmer, thank you very much.

We'll be right back and preview the Thanksgiving ball games.

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You know, Dan, we had a softball team for years, and I touted myself as the manager and it's because I couldn't see anything.

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This is where Thanksgiving really begins, isn't it?

Oh no.

It's the gymnast laying with his wife song again.

We need it twice.

Honey,

it's time.

Welcome back.

Thanksgiving.

I mean, the very fabric of Thanksgiving.

We talked about turkey and family, but yes, football.

Football.

And, you know, it's the original holiday mark that the NFL co-opted, and it was in an organic way, and it fits.

And even, I can't even get down on when they added the Thursday night game because I think that fits nicely with the holiday and that unwinding after the turkey.

So this will be no cynicism around

the

I think they call it like the John Madden

Thanksgiving triple header or something.

We can't be cynical.

That's the branding.

But like yeah, and Madden is synonymous with Thanksgiving as well.

So we have three games to get to and Mark, maybe park your Gen X snark at the door so we can get through these previews.

Why am I being tagged as like I I don't have a big problem with it.

It's the issue that they're taking over, like, you know, Flag Day and other days eventually, too.

It's like, we're fine with Thanksgiving.

That was my point.

Like, this is the one where I'm like, you guys earned this.

This is a good holiday for you guys to be a part of.

That's all.

That's all.

I can sign up for this.

I mean, I was watching Thanksgiving football when you were probably still walking around in like my shortsies.

My short pants?

Yeah.

All right.

So the schedule is a little funky.

There's

a game that smells like a blowout.

There's a game that could be close, but is two of the most pitiful teams in football.

And then a Thursday night game that has a chance to be very compelling.

So let's start.

Let's go and order the

traditional game in Detroit.

I remember it in the Silverdome with Barry Sanders, and then all those wretched years between Sanders and before Dan Campbell hit the scene, where this was a guaranteed spot for the Lions to just get creamed.

Well, I think it's going to to be the other way this Thanksgiving, and the desert feels the same because the Lions are laying 10 points of wood here.

The number one in the

heed the call power rankings for I believe the fifth straight week, Detroit Lions hosting the Chicago Bears.

Mark, you start us on this one.

Chicago obviously has

been better and competitive since bottoming out and firing Shane Waldron.

But at the same time,

they seem like, you know, potentially outclassed in this setup.

Well, outclassed is accurate.

I mean,

I will note that Green Bay, I kind of forgot about this, but they fell to the Packers last Thanksgiving when we were very hot on Detroit, and Green Bay was starting to

beginning to heat up.

Chicago's heating up, but I think when we talked about Matt Eberflus before,

it's his defense that he is trying to sell.

And over the last five weeks, they have given up an average of 151 yards on the ground.

And so here comes the core power of the Lions, which is Jameer Gibbs and ex-bear David Montgomery, who might be slightly annoyed and want to make an impact here.

And they've also, also, if you look at the past defense for Chicago, they were number one in past EPA through week six.

And that was a selling point for Ybriff Luce since week eight when they came back from the, they're 22nd since then.

So you can kind of attack them in multiple ways.

And that, for me, Connor, leaves like the Caleb Williams question.

It's like, what can Caleb Williams do to save this and hang around with the Bears?

The Lions are the third best run defense too, so that puts a lot of heat on Williams.

He threw for 320 last week against Brian Flores as Vikings, so that matters.

And I think he's a fun watch now, and there's hope here, but

this is a very tall order on a holiday.

I do wonder if he gets

overconfident after last week.

Like, I remember us talking about some of the incredible balls that he threw, but some of them I think would have been intercepted in other games.

And the Vikings' defense is great, right?

But the Lions play a really hyper-aggressive style of man defense.

They're going to blitz a lot out of those looks.

And I could see not like a regression game, but just a realistic, like, you're still learning what you're going to be able to do and not going to be able to do.

One other note on this, too, that the Lions play a ton of 12-personnel.

I know you guys are big fans of 12-personnel talk,

but Bears tend to play like a nickel against that a lot.

And if that were the case, if you actually were to do that, I think in this game, like the Lions could run for like 250 yards.

So I think that's something to look at.

All right.

And just a note that Detroit can't get complacent here, even if they are a heavy favorite.

Because despite being 10-1, you have the Eagles.

soaring at 9-2 on a seven-game winning streak right behind them.

The Vikings also at 9-2, running a four-game winning streak, and the Packers not far behind at 8-3.

So that race for the number one seed is on, and the Lions are looking for their 10th consecutive win.

Man, how things change.

Let's move to the second game.

This, as I referred to, yes, this is the game, old rivals.

This is the Summer All Madden,

gorgeous Cowboys, Giants, but there ain't no Phil Sims here, and there ain't no Emmett Smith, and it's a different world.

Will the Cowboys, Connor, finally win at home where they've been biblically terrible this season?

It would seem to be that way.

I think so.

I think that we've seen the Giants secondary, even though they had some good moments against Tampa, I think they're probably going to struggle to match up with Dallas in this one.

Cooper Rush is still all right.

You know, he's got some, he's had some good moments.

I think if he didn't fumble in that Texans game, they might have won.

I thought he played well last week.

I really did.

I did too.

So, you know, I don't know if that necessarily bolds well for the Giants.

And, you know, like we said for Brian Dable, like this game maybe doesn't necessitate a victory, but you have to quiet everything down.

Like there cannot be chaos like there was in the locker room after that last game where players are calling you soft and Malik Neighbors is wearing the cool sunglasses and saying that everybody's you know ass, you know, so you can't have that, you know.

No, can't have it.

You can't, and like, like we were saying with the hot butt, the thing that can get Dable got here is if they keep getting embarrassed.

And here is a major spotlight situation.

Uh, and the Cowboys, um, yeah, I'm just looking at like the Cowboys schedule, Mark.

Here are their the home results this season.

Lost 44-19 to the Saints, lost 28-25 to the Ravens, but they were down like 28-3 in that game.

Yeah.

Sneaky.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Lost 47-9 to the Lions.

Lost 34-6 to the Eagles.

Lost 34-10 to the Texans.

And now they get the Giants.

So let's see.

I think they do get a win here.

Draft board or draft standing.

Doesn't think I'm an idiot.

Do you?

You know, I mean, I kind of think the Giants, this is just how it seems to work in my mind sometimes.

It's like, A, everyone thinks it's going to be a terrible game.

So it will go late into overtime to the point where like you've got no break between this and the night game, secondly.

But

the Cowboys are 31st in points allowed.

I mean, you kind of alluded to this with those scores, 29th in scoring margin.

And their move right now, because they've got no ground game for the most part, is that Cooper Rush since week 10 is the second most pass attempts in the NFL.

So I think it's going to be a lot of CD Lamb and hoping that they can have a day where they can electrify the Giants' defense.

For me, I think if you're, I just kind of have a feeling that while we listen to Tom Brady and Burkhart talking about all the ups and downs

with Brian Dable, that they pull out one of these wins where, to Connor's point, it does kind of quiet it all down and nothing makes sense at all.

I'll go the other way.

I think the Cowboys embarrass the Giants and push them deeper into the abyss.

I did like the CD Lamb.

My fantasy team would love a big CD lamb.

Nothing better than these important is the final weeks of the regular season in fantasy.

And if you if you have a few guys playing on the Thanksgiving and they ball out, it's like the turkey's going down a little easier.

You know what I mean?

Sure.

Cowboys by four in that game, by the way.

Finally, and also Brady has been kind of a magnet pull to announcing blowouts as well.

And the Cowboys.

Yeah, so I think we're going to get a blowout, but the Cowboys on the right side of one.

Cox.

We'll see.

All right, finally, here's the game.

What was that?

Cox.

I had a Brady game, and I just kept texting Justin every time Brady said something mildly that could have been interpreted as sexual, but there was a linebacker, Cox, on the other team.

And every time he said that, I was like, Justin, can you grab that?

Justin, cut that.

Finally, pound this thing in there.

Anytime, yeah, anytime Tom Brady says something that could be taken in an anatomical way, Justin, we're going to need you all over it

going forward or continuing.

Apparently, this was an ongoing assignment for you.

Sorry,

let's keep it going in perpetuity, though.

This is

a new core aspect of your job.

Don't tell the people at Underdog.

Copy that.

Finally, that's the number 31 Giants in our power rankings at the number 25 Cowboys.

Finally, the number 15 Miami Dolphins on a three-game winning streak head to Lambeau Field to face the number seven Packers.

This is with Tarico Collinsworth

on the mic.

And Connor love this game.

I mean,

you can worry about the first two games for different reasons.

But this one, yes, it could get away from the Dolphins on the road against a good team.

And we don't need to cover the, can the Dolphins play in cold weather dynamic, but it's there.

So there is a, definitely a path where this is a blowout, but I kind of like what we're seeing from the Dolphins, and I think the Packers are a team that can get got.

This one feels like a little bit of an upset brewing potentially.

I think so too.

I mean,

as Mark said in the recap show, and I went back and watched it as well yesterday, Chop Robinson dominated that game.

Like they're developing speed off the edge, which is going to bother Jordan Love.

Jordan Love makes some weird decisions sometimes.

This could be a sneaky

Jalen Ramsey game.

And Devon A-Chan is the hardest to tackle running back.

I think statistically in the NFL right now, the Packers are sound defensively, but what if he busts one of these?

And I just think that this game has sneaky potential.

I moved the Dolphins way up in my power ranking.

I am taking a very long position in the Miami Dolphins right now.

They were playing the Patriots, and we get that, but they were dominant.

You know, it's not, we always focus on the offense, but they have given up less than 100 yards rushing five games in a row and decisively.

And that relates to Josh Jacobs, who was incredible last week.

I mean, against the Niners, just carved them up early and ended that game.

You've got Zach Seeler back playing really well.

Javon Holland as well.

I'd say, I want to make one, I won't talk about the weather, but I want to make one note, like for all the hubbub, which sort of starting to annoy me.

They've played two games under Mike McDaniel where at kickoff it was under 45 degrees, and it was the Bills and the Chiefs.

So this narrative is a little bit to me, like, I kind of hope they smash it to put it to bed because it's a tired narrative because it's not 18 games or 14 games.

It's two against excellent AFC teams.

But it's also like how they, like the game, and it was a historically cold playoff game, but it's how they look.

They look like a team that not only was discombobulated and out of their game plan, those guys didn't look like they wanted to be there.

And maybe this team's different, but I don't know.

Well, I just think, I just kind of think like the sample size is small enough where

the script is not completely written on that, but they've got to go prove it.

Can I just ask if the Dolphins' color scheme was like black and red and their name was like the snow leopards, do you think we would

be talking as much about the weather?

Do you think the fact like the

very like before Labor Day color scheme that they have, the fact that they're from sunny Miami,

it's a fish that if it were to be in icy waters would be in trouble.

Do you think that that plays into it?

Yeah.

I think it plays against them a little bit.

Also, the fact that their head coach has undergone this physical transformation where now he looks like a Miami drug kingpin who does all of his work outside.

He's just like,

he has a patio that's like on, what's that main drag in Miami that we always see with all the Art Deco?

And like he does all his dealings just in the sun, like out there.

You know what I mean?

Everybody comes to him and sits in the sun in the warmth.

He fits that team.

Picture Mike McDaniel just like on a whiteboard in the middle of the Miami downtown strip, like talking like Scarface and being like, oh, we're going to carve him up this weekend.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And by the way, you know, I've been, this has been not Zuzzer-like, but I've been on the Dolphins as a team to buy in on when they were, you know, in the dumps.

And so I'm not going to jump off now.

Whenever you got a...

Mark, you know this.

Like, whenever you got a hot hand as a team that you believed in, you got to ride it.

So I'm going to say the Dolphins have it again.

But I also just looked up the 10-day weather over there on weather.com.

It's terrible.

Woof.

All right.

Thursday night, Thanksgiving in Green Bay, Wisconsin,

19 degrees.

Winds west to northwest at 10 to 15 miles per hour.

It's going to be cold as f there.

So let's.

And snow, by the way.

Like it's there's snow showers throughout that day.

3% chance of snow Thursday night.

But yeah, it's going to be, the turf's going to be rock solid.

It's going to be hard to catch.

Tua throws a softball, and it's a good thing.

But is that softball cut through the winds of Lambeau Field in late November?

This is one of those things that is as annoying as it might be to you, Mark.

And imagine what it is for Mike McDaniel and the Dolphins.

I do need to see it.

I do need to see it.

I do, too.

I'm just saying, like, I kept, and I was surprised when I read that it was only two games, because in my mind, I think part of

the offense seems to fade last year.

But it's like, I would have thought it would have been five or six games where it's like, this team just does not know how to operate in the elements.

And it was two against two of the best teams, the two best teams in the afc outside of the ravens

i just want to say this that if there were a time to unveil your tactical like off-color uniform combination if it was miami it would be this week like ditch the teal and go like white and silver and like all sort of black gradients like on the thing and make it like the uh the snow camo from tom clancy rainbow six you know what i'm saying oh yeah it's gotta do the nfl but the nfl is so um annoying and like librarian about this that you have to tell them the uniform change back in April, don't you?

Like, you can't just do that on the fly, I think.

I would say it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

You know, this is what you do.

Exactly.

You show up, and then you

brought like Chris Sale did once upon a time for the Chicago White Sox when he hated the throwback uniforms.

He took scissors to all of the throwback uniforms on game day, so the team had no choice but to not use them.

I think the Dolphins wear something badass, badass, hide that lame dolphin logo.

Maybe a dolphin you modify and give it sharp teeth and put the mean eyebrow over it.

And let's go there and look like monsters.

Yeah.

I love that.

All right.

I was thinking, should we say something about the Packers?

But,

you know, I love, I, I, uh, I think Josh Jacobs could have a big game

on Thursday night.

Again, if you are wondering whether the Dolphins have the physicality in this setup, Jacobs is going to be putting a hurt on people the way he's running now, hard and effective.

And Jordan Love, I thought he looked good last week.

So they seem to be well set up to defend their home.

I like this game a lot.

I'm looking forward to watching it.

Like one quick Jordan Love thing, like this is their offense is interesting.

And

he's thrown deep at the second highest rate in the NFL.

And the Dolphins have, that's one area where they've struggled is against deep passing.

So something to keep an eye on.

Romeo Dobbs, concussion, probably not going to play.

I'm going to call two interceptions for Xavier McKinney in this game.

How about that?

That would make him defensive player of the year a candidate.

He already is.

Going back and watching Josh Jacobs carries from the 49ers game, like Kyle Shanahan used to be the goat of like the designer run game and how beautiful it is.

It's Matt LaFleur now.

Like every single one of Josh Josh Jacobs' carries came from a different point.

You didn't know where he was when he got the ball.

He was always had a head start and momentum when he got the ball.

And all the Packers blockers had head starts and momentum, and they were just crushing people.

So it's beautiful to watch.

It looked different.

Those Packers rushes look different than you see from a lot of other teams.

Like they are doing

all right.

Good stuff.

Thank you again to our guy, James Palmer, for some good hot butt talk.

And we'll be back in just one day with the Thanksgiving preview, excuse me, with the rest of the week 13 preview, I should say, all the games to be played, every team playing in week 13.

So we got a lot to talk about.

Until then, though, do what you must.

Heed the call.

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