Around The NFC in 47:59

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The Heed the Call Podcast

broke down and got NFL Plus to watch the preseason games.

Oh,

they got us.

Welcome to Heed the Call with Dan Hanses and Mark Sessler.

I'm Dan Hanses.

That's Mark Sessler.

Episode six.

We are flying.

That's called branding right there.

Just get, say your names over and over and over again until you're millionaires.

I read that once.

Gary Vanderchuck, I think his name is.

He told me to do that.

Mark?

You know what?

I can already tell.

I'm really, I'm in hot water right out of the gate here before the show.

I had a t-shirt on all day.

It's very hot here in Los Angeles.

Switched to this like an East Coast or East Coast like middle of autumn type shirt.

And it looked airy.

It looked breezy to me.

And I, you know, we're 30 seconds into this.

I can tell that it is like,

it feels like a woolen blanket covering my entire upper body.

And like once I start feeling, you know, hot, sweaty, crazy, it does not stop.

So I know this episode will go on for roughly 98 minutes, and it's going to be a small hellscape, but I am very committed to the show and to you as well, Dan.

Unbelievable.

I mean, just that's the measure of a man.

That's a measure of a professional.

And, you know, not for nothing, if you do start to feel a little uncomfortable, you could take down a couple more of those buttons.

Because middle age is suiting you very well, Mr.

Sessler.

Very well.

No, I don't think we need to go another button or two down.

That's not going to help anyone.

I mean, you already got a couple down there.

Well, for stated reasons, yes.

On Wednesday's episode, we went around the AFC in 47 minutes and 30 seconds.

And that was excellent.

And thank you to Andrew Ceciliano.

Today, we are going to go around the NFC, and we're going to do it, Mark, with two people that we are huge fans of, that we are friends with, and that friendship is going to bloom to catastrophic levels.

Like that almost makes it sound like something bad is going to happen because we're going to conspire.

I'm not ruling it out.

Let's welcome them in.

Jordan Rodrigue and Michael Sean Dugar of the Athletic.

Yes, what is up, gang?

Jordan, how are you?

Conspire.

We're going to conspire.

I'll start with you.

I was going to say, you've never made friendship sound more ominous, and I, frankly, am here for it.

And Mark, be free, man.

Be free.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Well, I appreciate that.

Mike, would you be comfortable if Mark took the entire shirt off at this point, first time doing the show together?

He'd the call.

You know what?

Sure.

You know,

I'm fine with that.

Mounting pressure, Mark, to take your shirt off.

Yes.

More acceptance.

For those who do not know, Jordan is the beat reporter, amongst other things, for the Athletic.

And Michael Schoen covers the Seahawks.

And these are two very talented, very charismatic, potentially very evil when we conspire together.

I'm throwing it out there as a group.

Mark, we wanted to, when we relaunched this show, as heed the call, we thought about like who were kind of the smartest people that we talked to during our run at NFL.

And we were thinking about the Thursday show.

And we said, What if we built like this like

dream team for our preview episodes?

And that's exactly what we've been able to do

every Thursday during the regular season.

It's going to be me, Sess Dog, Jordan, and Mike with Gravedigger chipping in as well.

And Jordan, I mean, what I mean, that sounds, this sounds like victory.

I'm very excited for what's to come.

And today's episode is just kind of breaking the ice for this new partnership.

I'm so happy, Dan and Mark,

gravedigger, Mike.

I see you like five to six times per year.

It's very nice to see you.

Mike and I go way back, NFC West.

And like, Dan, we've, we talked about this a lot.

And

I just, I'm very, very happy to be here.

I also...

could not help myself, but when you said conspiring yet talented, the first thing that came into my head was wickedly talented

this is a sickness that you have instilled in me i'm sick in the head thanks to you and to mark yeah mike you should know that this is mostly a john travolta impressions podcast so i don't know if you're aware what you signed up for but that's part of knowing on this

wickedly talented

all right i'll try i'm a i'm a big like uh movie and tv guy so maybe i just got a uh crash study a little bit i did not know that but that's good to know that we're starting off with that and i can catch up and you raced here mike from seahawks camp today they're building a a train station uh uh you said and so the additional obstacles uh to get here i mean it doesn't go unnoticed with mark sexler but let me just put it that way well i i should also note within that this just shows how much i love you guys and i'm committed uh to the show is today was like family barbecue day at the Seahawks so after practice they had this huge spread right outside you know where you know we have to walk by And I tried to like sneak some early, and then they were like, nah, they're only serving the football players right now.

You know, credit to like fourth or fifth string running back, Kyrie Jackson, who was just like, nah, bro, you're good.

You're on the team.

Come, come eat.

But the server lady was like, nah, he not.

He's with the I know him.

You guys are going to eat after the players.

We don't want to risk running out of food before the players eat.

So I was like, damn, that was at like 2.05.

local time.

So I was like, damn, I don't have time to wait.

So I came here without getting free barbecue too, because that's how committed I am.

That is, that's very noble of you.

I have noted since going back to school days that server ladies, they run a tough ship, like a tight ship.

They're not very forgiving on that front.

I also note that before the show, and we don't need to dive into this right now, but Mike informed me, and this is very much on my radar.

I'll be researching it.

I'll be researching this all weekend, that there is a train trapped under the sea somewhere off the shores of Seattle.

That's fascinating to me.

It's in a tunnel somewhere.

Like, these are the things about our country we need to explore more deeply, Dan.

Underwater infrastructure.

Yeah, I agree with that.

I agree with that.

All right.

Without further ado, it is time to do what we must do, and that is to go around the NFC in 47 and some odd change.

And just know, this is the, I believe, for Jordan and Mike, first time we're going around

in this amount of time.

Second time for Jordan, first time for this time.

Oh, in this amount of time, specifically, in this amount of time.

I'm I'm ready.

This is my first time in this amount of time.

We're all rookie.

Specifically.

Yeah, we're all rookies on some level.

Just know, Mike, if you do go over time,

Justin, our producer, he has a tranquilizer gun, and it will break the skin of a rhino, and it will certainly pierce your jugular.

So just be careful.

Let's get going.

Hit the DJs, Belmar, Foghorn, Gravedigger.

The Dallas Cowboys in the NFC East with Mark Sessler.

And speaking of structural intrigues, there was a fire at the Cowboys training camp hotel.

And I'm willing to view that as a microcosm for a confusing, constipated, contrarian offseason in Dallas.

You've got CeeDee Lambs holdout, Dak not getting paid yet, and you begin to see a growing reality where Dak himself might be somewhere else a year from now, among others.

You just, you never know.

But let's go somewhere else with the Cowboys right here.

I am thinking back to the sea change that unfolded with this team when you went from Mike Nolan's overly confusing defense to that of Dan Quinn.

A big reason that Dallas etched back-to-back-to-back 12-win seasons.

And now it's the fiery, hard-nosed Mike Zimmer running the show.

So I'll start with you, Jordan, because your Rams have a new DC and longtime assistant Chris Shula after Raheem Morris replaced Brandon Staley, who replaced Wade Phillips.

So how big of a challenge, a change, maybe a positive change, is this for the Dallas Cowboys?

Well, I got to watch Mike Zimmer work work his magic up close at joint practices twice so far this preseason in training camp.

That dude just radiated.

You wouldn't think so because there's a little like dark Keebler-esque quality happening there, but like he is so cool and so composed and like so in his bag when he is calling defensive plays, walking around very quiet, has his walkie-talkie, is just sort of puts people in different places.

He's going to move Micah Parsons all around.

The field definitely was evident in the practices I saw.

And I think that he's going to infuse some defensive structure, at least, knowing that the offense and the future of the head coach, the future of the quarterback, the future of one of the top receivers in the league is kind of in fluid, in flux right now.

Yeah, Mike, you had also...

Think about the Cowboys last year when they had the highest paid defensive coordinator in the league and Dan Quinn.

You know, there was a lot of talk that they were beautifully set up that way.

And then the playoffs happened and that was an absolute disaster.

I worry about yeah, like the things that I worry about the other teams that are in this category that have yet to get over the hump and now have they hit the wall?

Are we expecting them to be NFC true contenders?

Because you're not hearing that buzz this year after obviously the quiet offseason Mark's alluding to.

Well, one of the things I'm curious about, particularly as it pertains to Zimmer, is how he deals with like volatility in his secondary.

You know, like Trevon Diggs and Deron Bland is like a pick six or a 70 yard touchdown given up, waiting to happen on any given snap.

Clearly, Dan Quinn was okay with that, but as even you know, the playoffs showed, or even the game against Seattle that I was there for on Thursday night football, they got roasted by Geno Smith, but also Duran, you know, picked him off.

You know, some coordinators deal with that a little better, that feast or famine type of mindset.

Some are just like, let's keep the lid on so I don't lose my mind.

You know, so that goes into the people part of his job.

I don't know Zimmer well enough to know how he'll handle that, but that's probably one of the bigger things to know about them or to be curious about on defense.

Four, three.

That was a great start.

Two.

That was great one

the philadelphia eagles

forget about brain drain the eagles drained the swamp after last year's epic collapse offensive coordinator brian johnson and demoted dc sean desai were shown the door as was unkillable master schemer matt patricia enter kellen moore and vic fangio as the new coordinators that'll oversee a roster that has notable additions and some subtractions on both sides of the ball.

A reminder for those that don't remember: I am not a Nick Siriani guy, and I think he needs high-end lieutenants to make things sing.

Big questions: Will Jalen Hurts be comfortable in an offense that allows less control for him at the line of scrimmage?

And will Fangio, whose scheme has been known to take some time to coalesce, be able to make the new puzzle pieces fit, particularly in that secondary, which was absolutely a disaster by the end of last year.

Above the treetops now, can the Eagles Eagles be a functional enterprise again?

We'll see.

What do you think, Jordan?

You know, I've been quietly whispering about this to both of you,

now to all three of you, but to Dan, you, and Mark specifically, way prior to this.

We've gotten a sniff, just a snifflet, if you will, of Cooper Dejean in the slot, potentially working his way into that star position.

But Quinn Mitchell can also play in the slot, and they're moving him around.

Kind of sounds a little bit, too.

Like I was reading Mike's work the other day, what they're doing a little bit with mike mcdonald's corners um in seattle but they're moving guys around it's hyper versatile but you need that command center that's what the star position is for this defense so i i do expect to revitalize secondary i want to show shout out joe casper and christian parker who are like the play you know they're connecting directly with the players on that front where fangio maybe has a little bit of that saltier reputation so i do think that changes in that regard are coming um to the eagles i want to go back to your comment on uh the Kellen Moore offense and Jalen Hurts.

Mark, what do you think about the center situation?

I mean, that's significant.

Well, I mean, Kelsey was one of the most impactful centers around, based, obviously, on the tush-push and how they operated an unstoppable play.

But the one thing I love about this offense this season versus last is they face from week seven on the easiest group of run defenses of any team in the league.

And so that's a good setup for Saquon Barkley and to get back to the way they were when they were dominant, when they could run the ball down the stretch with a lead.

So I don't know.

I hope, you know, part of it is, Mike, and the chaos that unseated them a year ago, do you feel like maybe this team has found itself again?

It starts with Sirianni.

I think that's one of the bigger mysteries.

I mean, for me, it's also Jalen Hurts, though.

He's got like, there's a word for his personality, but I didn't stay in, you know, college long enough to probably figure out what best describes it.

But he's just a weird cat.

You know, he kind of speaks in Maya Angelou quote type tone all the time, which is like cool for press conferences, maybe the first couple times.

But if you start to speak into your players like that, you know, can you steer the ship right?

Are you pulling Maya Angelou quotes out of your butt when you guys are down late in the fourth quarter, right?

That's weird stuff.

I'm going to take the dart for Mike because

we can't make Mike and twice in a row.

He did well.

Mike crushed it.

But I'm going to take the dart for him because I also want to bring up Bryce Huff.

We got to see a lot from Bryce Huff.

They're in a rough spot at their outside linebackers position.

There she goes.

Easy, Justin.

Easy.

Easy.

She's gone.

I like the sound effects.

Unkillifier.

She is gone.

I didn't want Mike to end twice.

That was my fault because I sent Mark up when I meant to send Mike up.

We need to.

No, that's all good.

I got to go.

Well, don't tell me.

The countdown helps out.

As long as I hear that, I also only have one AirPod, too, so the dark sound doesn't scare me that much because it's not hitting me from both sides.

I really only get it from the right.

So it's okay.

Rodrigue, more unkillable than Matt Patricia.

Timeout.

We're going to take a timeout here.

We get three.

We got some trade news.

The Washington Commanders traded 2022 first-round pick Jahan Dotson and a 2025 fifth-round pick to these Eagles in exchange for a third-round pick.

and two seventh-round picks in 2025.

So it looks like from this perspective, uh, Mike, that the Eagles get a number three wide receiver.

You obviously have AJ Brown and Devontae Smith.

By the end of last season, you had you know, Julio Jones with a fork sticking out of his back trying to fill in that role.

So, uh, maybe it works, but again, there's a reason why commanders are giving up on this guy and trading him in the division.

They don't think he's worth a damn as a player.

That's like the biggest red flag in the NFL to me is like a team is not even weary of facing you twice a year that they'll just give you up.

And it's not like they're giving up like a nose tackle or something where the impact of facing a guy twice a year maybe not be you know as prominent.

They're like, nah, man, we know you can catch a hundred balls on us, you know, like we just don't think you're like that for real.

That's that's pretty damning, you know.

I watched a little bit of the commanders' offense, you know, unfortunately, after the Seahawks traded for Sam Howell.

Like, it was, it was not great, you know.

Uh, it's one of those, like, you're wide receiver three in the Eagles offense, but like, does that mean you're actually like good?

Are you just like better than 75-year-old Julio Jones and, you know, Quez Watkins?

You know, that's a low, low floor, you know, to try to get over.

So, yeah, this is a weird move.

You know, I kind of get it because Howie's Roseman's like an evil genius a little bit, you know, post-Arcega Whiteside, you know, acquisition, he's an evil genius.

So maybe you give him the benefit of the doubt, but I'm just kind of skeptical.

Howie, motherfucker.

It's not as if Washington is like absolutely loaded at wide out, too, because beyond Terry McLaurin, you've got Zacchaeus, you've got Diami Brown, who I like.

I think Luke McCaffrey, just by the bloodline alone, it's like I want to see him on the field as soon as possible.

But it wasn't like they're so stacked that they can just float young guys out of there.

It's like the new regime was just not sold on this guy at all.

I'm going to take my pen, Patricia, placement out of my ear and cross out my first line for my Washington segment now.

Dang.

We hate to do that to you, Jordan.

All right, are we good?

Are we good to go?

Time back in.

All right.

Michael Sean Degar on the Zemen.

Yeah, so I kind of have like a little bit of a theme for these first couple of these that I'm setting off.

But like, so what I like is teams who seem to be like testing some conceptual theory within football.

And the Giants appear to be testing like what matters more, rush versus coverage.

Because like their rush, you know, after the Brian Burns acquisition, you know, Dexter Lawrence and Kayvon Thibodeau, it looks like they might have one of the best defensive lines in the league.

But then on the flip side, it looks like their secondary is like a bunch of future ufl all-stars maybe so i mean but there's that you know debate what elite coverage versus elite rush usually you don't want to go too all the way one way or the other but like the thing i'm curious about with the giants is like can an elite pass rush make up for what looks like one of the shakiest secondaries in the nfl

I think it's interesting these days because we can see the opposite work in a passing league as well, where the coverage can dictate the front a little bit more, the coverage can make up for the front a little bit more.

If your DBs can cover tight, if they can really put a shell or match down over the tops of different concepts, you can actually see that working.

The Giants are doing it sort of the straightforward way, the traditional way of rush, front, helping out.

back end.

And I do think it's interesting because

in today's league, teams are going to pass the ball.

They're going to quick game on them.

Teams are going to use speed players.

Teams are going to get the run going against them, but they're going to stretch run.

Teams are going to do all sorts of things to avoid that rush.

And if you get past a certain level of that defense, you're SOL.

I know on the other side of the ball, I know everyone is pretty much out on Daniel Jones.

And obviously his preseason action with the turnovers was grisly.

But I'm just, I'm open-minded, and I'm really excited to see Brian Dable with Malik Neighbors and how that could change things.

Josh and Hayden over on our fantasy show for Underdog have talked about it, you know, all offseason about how Neighbors for Dable could be what they hoped that Darren Waller was going to be last year in their offense, somebody that could really open things up, make life easier, be the playmaker.

And if this guy is as good as

everybody says he is, that can unlock a lot of things and make life easier for Daniel Jones, who, Mike, who's not,

you know, as you saw, Sauce Gardner trying to give compliments yesterday at his press conference, He's not ever maybe going to be an all-pro, but you put him in the right setup, and I think he could be more than serviceable.

In fact, he's been very good at times in his career.

Yeah, more than serviceable.

That's a nice compliment.

You worked hard on that.

I feel like Daniel Jones is one of those guys who go out there to ask you to not lose games, which is kind of what they did in 2022.

Whereas it's like, if I'm guaranteeing you whatever he's making, you know, guaranteed his first two years of his contract, I think, you got to go out there and win me some games, buddy.

You know, so I want to see that from him.

But I do agree that Malik Nabers is one of those guys who can help you win some games so I am confident in that conviction

all right let's move on

Dugar just killing it in appearance crushing it around the NFC

Let's move on to the Washington Commanders.

Jordan, get us excited about the Commanders.

Can you do it?

Well, my top point now has been redacted.

Thank you, Mark Sessler, for the service there.

But okay, surprising, zero people on this planet.

Dan Quinn this week named Jaden Daniels as the starting quarterback, a new era in Washington.

I absolutely love watching this kid play.

To me, he has unlimited potential.

What I worry a little bit more about is everything around him,

including

trying to figure out this shuffle at receiver.

Adam Peters, the GM, is very familiar with the McCaffrey family at this point from coming over to San Francisco.

So I would expect Luke McCaffrey to have a little bit of an inside track on some of that quarterback help help player outside of what Terry McLaurin can do in terms of some of that underneath stuff, the slot stuff.

Cliff Kingsbury.

Say that five times fast.

The Sockless Wonder is going to now call a bunch of bubble screens, flat plays, little fast outs, things like that to help protect Jaden Daniels because he has very little to brag about on the offensive line.

I want Jaden Daniels to stay healthy.

They're going to try to contain him a little bit to keep him safe because you have to get that short game stuff going.

But you could see this dude just wants to rip it down the field he wants to move he wants to be in the superstar club i think he will be sooner rather than later dan what do you think washington's real potential is this year and beyond

I think, you know, it's the easy answer, but, you know, a quarterback can change everything.

And if he, he's going to make mistakes, the way you're describing him is absolutely right, that he's going to be somebody that is looking to make the splash plays.

And that could go one of two ways.

So I think there's going to be maybe,

I would imagine they could potentially start slowly, but there might be a time as the season goes along where maybe things click and there's enough playmakers on that field to make things happen and the defense does enough.

I see them as a middling team, but if this team goes, has eight or nine wins mark, like I'm feeling pretty good about your future if the quarterback shows something.

I am too.

It's been a great preseason to watch these rookie quarterbacks, and there is sort of an elegance and a poetry to the way that Jaden Daniels moves and I was really suspicious of Cliff Kingsbury being back in the pros um but I thought the pairing so far has worked in the sense that I feel like Cliff Kingsbury is finding a way to help Jaden Daniels find easy open wideouts but Daniels himself creates that situation and you know it's not bad teams can still win seven or eight games in this league and it's like it's not like Washington is so bottom of the barrel talent-wise that they're gonna fall through the floor.

I think they've figured out a lot of things.

I like the idea of Dan Quinn at head coach.

They brought in a lot of veteran leadership as well.

And I see a boost.

I see a bump.

And I think they'll be hanging around in November and be kind of a tough out if Daniels is what we think he can be.

I left us in a tough spot there.

His teams start fast, though.

I will say that Cliff Kingsbury, his teams do start fast.

We started fast.

That's the NFC East.

Let's take a break.

And when we return,

the NFC North.

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All right, we are back.

Yes, we are going through the NFC.

We just finished the East, about to head to the north.

But before we do that, you know, Michael Sean Dugar, he's been on the show a couple times, the old show.

But it did occur to us that maybe the audience might want to learn more about Michael Sean Dugar, Pete Reporter for the Athletic.

So here we go.

This is a segment I like to call Getting to Know Michael Sean Dugar.

Feels pretty good.

Feels locked down.

Don't need to change that title.

All right, so here's a series of questions.

Oh, by the way, did I mention the plug?

We got to plug that.

That in addition to being the beat reporter for the athletic covering the Seahawks, he's the host of the Seahawks man-to-man podcast on Blue Wire.

There's a factoid right off the bat.

All right.

I asked his favorite album.

This is what he said.

My crazy life by YG.

I like that Mike added honorable mentions here.

Miseducation of Lauren Hill and My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy by Kanye West.

How did YG edge those other two classics, Mike?

Yeah, I also

was sitting at home with my mom when you asked me these questions and like discussing my answers with her and I told her my albums and she was like you are all over the place with your top three there.

But I do think

What I love is when,

particularly with someone's debut album, which I think that is for YG, is like they take you into their world and make you feel it, you know, not just hear it, but feel it.

And if you listen to My Crazy Life, like you really feel like you are going through Los Angeles, you know, Compton, like with YG.

You know, the good, the bad.

He gets in jail.

He's arrested in that, you know, in that album as well.

But it's also not like super dark.

He's jamming in there.

Like, because they party in LA too, you know, they get arrested here and there.

You rob a few houses here and there.

But you also party, you know.

Assessors in hollywood gets loose every night and it's probably one of one of the albums of the 21st century for me i would say um

that that is peak kanye also and i always thought the uh runaway the piano intro and then when the beat hits like 15 seconds in is one of the most transcendent moments in music of that decade that's my take there let's move to the next question i asked mike uh mike what is the greatest movie sequel he said

Bad Boys 2.

Why?

Well, so I'm a huge movie guy.

Like, I quote movies probably when I'm asleep, you know.

And this is perhaps maybe the most quotable sequel ever for me.

There's just so many lines, many of them inappropriate, that I just, they just sit, they just pop into my head when I'm driving, whether I'm feeding my daughter.

There's just like so many things that just pop into my head from this movie.

So much classic dialogue that carries the film.

A ton of just action stuff.

They just pushed a bunch of buttons.

They were like, you know what we need something to blow up right here boom you know and make it happen useless car chases like everything that's like typical action movie that's kind of cliche they just nail it there whether it's useful or not and i need that sometimes in an action film just like blow some shit up yeah i didn't uh i didn't think you could beat uh will smith and martin lawrence walking in slow motion with tea leone in the first one and then they had the scene where the uh the kid shows up for the date

oh yeah you know like that's such a a class.

I became a girl dad last year, too.

You know, not that, like, I just immediately fantasized pulling a gun on a teenager, right?

But I did think of the possibility of a recreation of that type of moment, you know, if my daughter gets to that age, you know.

So, yeah, that's one of the best movie scenes ever.

How old are you?

15, we said, Motherfucker, you look 30.

All right, up next, I asked, final meal.

Let's say you're on death row, and it's by the way, weird that they do the death row final meal.

Are they still doing that?

I don't know.

But you could choose any meal in the world.

And you said, what, Mike?

The chicken and fish basket with yams and mac and cheese from Nana's Southern Kitchen in southeast Seattle.

If you pull up to Seattle and you got time here for a game, you're here for whatever.

It doesn't really matter.

You're here to find that ship lost underwater.

Like, stop there in Kent, Kent, Washington is the name of the city.

It's so perfect.

I just got married in June and we're looking for a caterer.

And like, I forget why we didn't go with Nana's Southern Kitchen.

Maybe it was price.

I can't remember.

But if we had, oh my goodness, I think we would have ran out of food after like the first four tables.

They would have just been stuffing their faces.

So amazing.

If Nana's was serving after the Seahawks practice today, are you missing today's show?

Absolutely not.

I love you guys, but there's no way in hell if that was the catering, I can be very honest.

I would have been late.

I'd have just popped in during like the NFC South or something.

I loved this one.

Celebrity or historical figure, living or dead, you'd most want to play a game of ping pong with.

You went with Malcolm X.

Wow, what a battle.

Yeah, well, first off, I would win.

That's just off top.

Was Malcolm an athletic guy?

We don't know.

I don't know.

We don't know.

Although, I don't know how much athleticism is required to kick ass in ping pong.

But either way,

like I mentioned with movies and quotes,

he's probably one of the most quotable peoples in the history of the world.

So it would just be cool to steal some game from him while I'm kicking his ass in the game.

That would be pretty dope.

Reading the autobiography of Malcolm X is one of the dopest things i've ever done in my life so like that'd be cool to go back and forth with him i debated this one for a long time uh with my mom it was like really unfortunate that a lot of the people who popped in on my list at first i needed to like i would have had to preface it with like before they became a criminal or you know so like it was just easier to go with with malcolm x you know who became a lot more famous post being a criminal so he was he felt like the safer pick all things considered and then the bonus question we wrap with this before we get back into it I asked Mike, who's covered the Seahawks for since when, Mike?

2017.

Since 2017, the funniest, either intentionally or unintentionally, Russell Wilson interaction or Russ thing that you witnessed during your Seattle run?

Yeah, so I had to, I had to cheat this one because they were both just hilarious.

The first one was the time that Russ shouted out Sierra.

I believe they were just boyfriend and girlfriend at the time on Women Crush Wednesday, and he posted this beautiful quote uh of her describing her beauty i don't have it in front of me but it was just like it was something where you were like yo russ don't talk like that so i don't know who found it i want to say it was natalie weiner who used to like blog about the seahawks used to write for billboard i believe she found that russ legit just googled how to describe a beautiful woman and

used like the first thing that popped up copied and pasted it and described sierra uh and it was just the dorkiest thing in the world it was like when people debate whether Russ is like corny or something, like the debate's kind of gone left a little bit, but this is the thing I point to, like first and foremost, like that is quite literally the corniest thing I've ever seen a man do to try to celebrate his woman.

And the second thing that I chose was the first time Sierra ever braided Russ's hair, cornrow style.

It was very much like Russ in that moment discovered, wait a minute, I'm a black guy.

I can do this.

You know, because Russ has had like some hairstyle crisis over the years.

Like, I have a whole thread on Twitter or X or whatever that just chronicles my favorite Russ hairstyles.

And so, hashtag cornroll Russ is one of my favorite ever.

Finished product for y'all.

Let's go.

I wonder, was it like a record scratch moment when he walked into the locker room after doing that?

I think, I don't think he had the heart to wear that into the locker room.

Maybe he did.

I think that was an off-season experiment because he would have got absolutely just barbecued if he walks into the locker room with that.

It's like, Russ is a corny, cheesy dude.

He's like a nice guy, all things considered, but like, I can, I'll stand on the table and say, no, my corny stuff doesn't go to how much he loves Russ or takes care of future, or loves Sierra or takes care of Future's kid.

There you go.

It is that stuff.

That stuff is corny.

And I said, Jordan, I said, we were texting about this, Mike and I last night, and I said, I'm going to miss Russell Wilson and he's gone.

He's entertainment, if nothing else.

Oh, yeah.

No, he's good for business, man.

I told his agent that when he broke his finger in 2021, I was like, I miss your guy, if nothing else.

Like, he was good for business, man.

I'm in a contract year.

So

your boy was good for subscriptions and views.

I needed that.

That was Aaron Donald's fault, though, Mike.

That was right.

Everything that's gone wrong with the Seahawks in the last

three and a half seasons is, in one way, it's like a flowchart.

Like, was Aaron Donald involved?

Yes.

The Seahawks are screwed.

Like, it's really kind of...

When he retired, I'm pretty sure there was champagne popped all over the Virginia Mason Athletic Center where the Seahawks headquarters.

All right, very well.

That's nice.

Now we know him a little bit more.

Mike, let's now spin to the NFC North, starting with Jordan Rodrigue on the defending division champion Lions.

Oh,

how far these Lions have come when the biggest question that I'm asking about the 2024 Detroit Lions, who Connor Orr, by the way, has picked as the Super Bowl champions this season,

the biggest question I'm asking about them is who the heck is their third receiver?

I mean, that's luxury.

That's opulence for these Detroit Lions at this point.

Just a few years into the Dan Campbell era, after they were a bit of a laughingstock across the league and battering their quarterback, who I now cover in Los Angeles.

And their quarterback is hailed as a hero.

His name is getting chanted at hockey games.

I love that for Jared Goff.

How validating must that be?

And when you feel good, you play good, and he definitely feels good.

This secondary, this defense, hearing reports from camp, it seems like they've really turned over one of sort of a sketchier area of their roster and really amplified some of the secondary pieces.

This Lions team is super fun.

They wear their heart on their sleeves.

From the second they got there, Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell said, basically, everything we do, we're going to tell you who the F we are.

And we are in this.

And we don't care if you like the players we draft.

We don't care if you have them ranked in different differentials in terms of your analytics for your roster math.

We're going to get the guys we like, and we are going to go all the way.

That's what the Lions are saying to you right now.

Mark, do you believe them?

Oh, I believe them because

if I were to list and rank the best team building efforts over the past five to 10 years, this is right at the top.

They really remind me in a way of the Rams in certain aspects.

And Brad Holmes obviously is the link there.

I mean, you're right when you try to look for where is the weakness here.

I think part of it is like it really depends on what you get from a couple players.

Like if Marcus Davenport across from Aiden Hutchinson, if he sings, they've got that figured out.

If Terry On Arnold hits the ground running, a great college cover corner, that secondary, which was an Achilles heel a couple seasons ago,

becomes a strength.

And I just, I'm looking at this team and how they can batter and destroy people.

I'm with Connor Orr.

They feel very much like a Super Bowl heavy type situation.

I mean, it's them and the Niners and a couple others, but this Detroit Lions team is a football revolution.

They are, and yet it's different to be the team that's the lovable underdog and then the team that took the next step last year and they got very close to the Super Bowl.

Now it's Super Bowl or bust, which is such a weird thing with the Detroit Lions.

In fact, it's never happened because the Detroit Lions have never gone to a Super Bowl.

So I'll be interested to see how the added weight of expectations plays a role.

But I also think they're well equipped for it.

And Mike, I know Dan Campbell, yeah, people can learn from what the Lions did here.

They tore it down to the studs.

There wasn't much there to start with, but they turned this team into a juggernaut, and they took their time to do it right.

Do I just take a dart shot?

Take a dart.

Take a dart here in the right ear.

I mean, yeah, I'll do that.

You can lace me up with the dart.

I will say the greatest compliment I think you can give a team in the NFL is that they embody the style of the personality of their head coach.

And the good teams around the league kind of have that.

Uh, that was the thing that was missing towards the end of the Pete Carroll era, they just weren't they didn't feel like a Pete team anymore.

And with the Lions, they you can feel like they're playing Dan Campbell ball, you know, however that manifests itself.

He's not a total meathead, you know, he's he's a nerd in a lot of ways.

Um, so like, I think that's what gives me faith in the Lions.

As long as you are embodying your coach, you know, and playing the style of ball that he wants you to play, the style of ball he was hired for his team to play, I think you'll always have a chance of success in the NFL.

All right, let's move now to the Green Bay Peck.

What?

He stopped?

Justin,

come on, buddy.

Yes, yes, Justin.

It was just a way to say, like, all right, that's it.

It's over.

Let's move on.

It was like a transition sound.

Sorry.

I mean, I got that impression because you literally shot the man.

The producer always becomes so trigger happy with the tranquilizer.

This is not a new one.

Okay, Martin.

All right, Mike.

So if a a team takes on the personality of its head coach, that means the Green Bay Packers must have reported this summer with manicured eyebrows.

Let's get into that team right now.

Another team with high expectations.

Yeah, no, if they take on the identity of Matt LaFleur, they just show up to the regular season really handsome.

Like, that is a handsome cat.

I remember the NFC West had a little run there where it's like, well, these are some handsome cats.

They got coaching opposite 77-year-old or however old Pete Carroll was.

But again, with like the theory of testing a football concept, the Packers are kind of doing this.

I love Matt LaFleur's thing about like, I don't want to hear about number one receivers anymore, but it seems like they are kind of going with a number one receiver by committee approach, you know, over there.

You know, it can be Dobbs, it can be Wicks, it can be whoever on any given day, depending on how they want to attack.

But I feel like we have a lot of cautionary tales, you know, of teams trying to do that.

And, you know, they just fascinate me.

Not to say it can't work, but that's kind of the question I I know Jordan has done a lot with like LaFleur and people from that tree.

Like, are you buying that they can just kind of go number one receiver by committee depending on matchups each week and win?

Yes, I do.

And I also think that the stabilizing factor here is going to be their tight end usage.

They're going to use multiple tight ends.

They were already among the top of 12 personnel, two tight ends, percentage frequency in the NFL, but they're using them in ways that other teams are now copying.

They're using them in the run game too.

They do this thing called escort motion where they literally escort the runner into the gap and blast the defender out of the way.

Sort of an at-snap motion type of concept.

They also are moving gaps.

So when you have tight ends that can catch the ball, they can move gaps in the run game, they can basically be the foundation piece.

You basically have like orbiting receivers, much like Justin's spinning Titan's helmet.

You have orbiting receivers all around sort of the central nervous system of the line of scrimmage.

And I think those tight ends are really what are going to make everything go.

Also,

Dan, wasn't your mom like end-to-end carroll like that's not my mom uh yes oh big time my mother

was a massive fan of pete carol but we're talking 1994 one and done with the jets pete carroll uh when and he was a handsome son of a gun uh then he still is he's held up well you know one figure that really isn't intriguing to me and I'm curious to see what his role is because I was really impressed by how the the Packers just kept coming at you with those wide receivers and none of those wide receivers was the guy that you thought was the breakout star of that group which was christian watson uh where do we what are we expecting from him this year you obviously he was an injury marred mess but if he kind of resumes what he was uh with rogers that could be the he could be a big-time star for them i i would say for the second year in a row i believe that the second they're the youngest roster in the league and so with wide receivers you're just expecting growth and so i would say he is a big part of this you know from week 10 on when they transformed into what they were uh before blowing out the Cowboys with 48 points in the playoffs,

they had explosive plays on 55% of their drives.

And that's Jordan Love's expansion, and that's this young wide receiver group.

I totally agree with Degar that this is a group where it's like committee, but a great committee.

How about that, Justin?

Close.

All right, the Minnesota Vikings with me, the Zuzzer.

Let me get some...

Give me something inspirational, Justin.

People laugh, people scoff, people judge, people dismiss.

Sam Darnold is not an NFL starting quarterback.

Grow up, Peter Pan.

Get ready for Samuel Richard Darnold to author

the greatest Minneapolis glow-up since Prince at the goddamn Super Bowl.

I have been shouting about this man into a howling void since the East Rutherford screw job.

That was his Adam Gase Jets tenure.

And after a respectable showing in Carolina, where he was much better than the since image rehab Baker Mayfield, and a year marinating with Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco, Darnold will now bring a considerable skill set,

still has that, to a dome offense led by a stud-played caller and featuring the greatest wide receiver alive, amongst other players.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is your last chance to buzz your way into the Darnold Hive.

Purple Rain, Purple Rain.

That's the R-E-I-G-N version.

Nailed it.

Mike, you joining me?

You know, so here's my thing on Sam.

I do feel like when he's on,

like, if you know how they have like these draft meetings, you know, in the combine, if their job was like, let's show Sam's 20 best plays, we'll be like, oh my God, this is Patrick Mahomes.

But then, if you're like, well, let's show like just like five of the worst, you're like, oh my God, this is Tim Tebow.

You know, like the variance is

kind of crazy, you know, and I'm a Pac-12 guy.

I went to Washington State, so I've been watching Sam for quite a bit, even going back to USC.

You know, my Kooks beat his Trojans on a national televised game, I think, his final year.

So I've been watching.

The thing with him, the reason I can maybe, I won't like hang out in this Sam Donald Hive.

I can like maybe smoke a cigarette like right out front but i won't walk in um you know i just can't get all the way in with you on that all right the reason i can even stand outside you know and hear the music that you guys are playing in there is because of justin jefferson he might be like the most quarterback friendly receiver in the nfl even if you don't think he's the best like the ways he can get open you know amon rossing brown reminds me of this as well like he can just get open everywhere against anyone any type of way low red zone goal line whatever you know between the 20s he's just so good that even if you stink if you can just put the ball near him, like we saw in that fourth and 18, you know, with Kirk, like he'll make it happen.

So that's how I can, like, I'm not with you.

I won't walk in, but I'll stand right outside.

That way when you leave, you need to ride home.

I got you.

That's cool, bro.

YG's playing in there.

They need to figure out their run game.

Just saying, not to be the sore here, but they need to figure out their run game.

Otherwise, all that play action stuff that does raise Sam Darnold's floor will not work.

I do think Justin Jefferson raises his floor.

Jalen Naylor is going to be a player.

This is going to be be fun to watch as a help player.

And also, Kevin O'Connell is the type of coach who not only goes to bat for his quarterbacks, but he also helps raise the floor of any quarterback.

The Minnesota...

No, we just did that.

The Chicago Bears with Mark Sessler.

Okay, I have been to Chicago once, okay, on a cross-country trip from New York's Penn Station to San Francisco via Greyhound bus, a ticket that cost 75 bucks.

We got stuck in the windy city for five hours waiting for a new vehicle.

That bus was later trapped under a snowstorm in Cheyenne, Wyoming.

They stored us all in a seedy motel.

We drank $3 beers and small glasses, and I paid for many of them after winning 50 bucks at an OTB on a horse named Buns of Steel.

True.

These Chicago Bears are your new Buns of Steel.

made of fire and darkness and a beautiful light in Caleb Williams.

We've talked about him day and night, but are we ignoring this growing defense?

Caleb told Matt Eberflues on hard knocks that practice has been harder than games.

Anonymous a year ago, Iberflues is beginning to gather parts: TJ Edwards, Tremaine Edmonds, Kevin Bayard, Jalen Johnson, Dan's once-man crush, Jack Sanborn, Montez Sweat, the sweaty lover.

Beyond the QB and his gaggle of whiteouts, is it Matt Eberflues and his defense that helps Chicago become one of the biggest stories in pro football?

Do you trust it, Dan?

I do.

I do.

And we're going to use a T.O.

momentarily to talk some hard knocks.

I trust it because I think this is a team that's been building up slowly, and now they've made this big push.

And I think the two picks at one and nine can be transformational

for this team.

So while I don't see them necessarily, Jordan, as a team that's going to win this division, because I like this division, and I see two teams that are better than them, could they be contending potentially in December for a wild card spot?

I don't think that's crazy.

I don't.

The type of defense they're going to play will help them do that.

And I sort of blacked out when Mark was talking just out of pure joy, but I get the gist of what he's saying: in that, you know, this roster has some has some people on it that not only are really exciting, who are going to be exciting, but there is also some stability.

They've sort of had this feeling where

they've churned and they've slowly and patiently, first of all, corrected previous mistakes, but then also tried to build something sustainable and logical around their quarterback for the first time in I can't even remember how long with this team.

And you get the sense that there is some really exciting potential here.

And for all the days where the exciting stuff maybe needs a little hammering out, as it often does with the new offense, with rookies,

the defense, their backbone, is, I think, really going to help sustain them where it should.

And if it doesn't, then the spotlight shifts back to Eberflus, who got quite the spruce, by the way,

this offseason.

Just saying that.

Just using some time to say that.

My eyes are all on Shane Walgin.

Their OC.

He was the OC here in Seattle.

I know what a team looks like when they have a bunch of weapons that don't get maximized because of the play caller.

And my fingers crossed, that doesn't happen for the Bears.

Well said.

Time out.

Time out.

You know, they wait and they look at the clock and then they go, time out.

I just did that.

Check us out on YouTube, by the way.

All right.

Hard Knocks.

They just aired the third episode on Tuesday.

It's been weird for me, Sess Dog, because

you know this, dating back to, I think, 2011, right?

I was the beat man for Hard Knocks.

See, I'm a beat reporter too, guys.

We all connect.

We all work at the same level, same hours, deal with things on the same levels.

I watched the premium cable show for one hour a week and then wrote

a pithy column.

But I have not had to do that this year.

The last few years, I did a hardknox podcast.

Don't have to do that this year.

So I'm just watching the show from a different perspective, maybe a less pressurized perspective.

I'm enjoying it for the same reasons.

I always enjoy the show, that the beats are familiar in terms of

the tropes of hard knocks.

But I do feel like I'm getting to know the entire team better.

And particularly, Eberflus,

who we joked on the old show, was a man that was almost an anonymous figure as a head coach.

And he almost strikes me as maybe too nice and too golly g in some ways.

But it seems like the players like him, but it's been interesting to get to know him.

And also, yes, his glow up with his beard and his slick back hair has been something I noted as well.

When you buy a Dyson Air wrap,

speaking to a world that, respectfully, people with A, great male hair, such as yourself, Dan, or B,

women, people with long hair who use the Dyson air wrap, when you buy it, you get a little bit of an edge.

You start walking down the street with a jar and if they want to sponsor this particular segment every week, I will not say no on the Heed the Call podcast.

But yeah, I think you just

now

I'm going to shit the bed because I just now I'm all frazzled because you complimented me.

So I'm all nervous now.

Okay, so but I really do think that this

it's a personality that works when the expectations are that high.

I think less so what he's offering is

golly gee whiz, he is offering a little bit of that.

More so what he's trying to provide to them is stability.

And this is a franchise and an organization that has gone through so much change and failed expectations.

And it's a city that's really the, they're pressing in from all directions.

And it probably feels a little bit like a breath of fresh air to just like kind of go into a place where it's like, yeah, all right, let's let's be here right now and let's play some football.

And golly gee, we're going to play some football.

And I do think that there's something a bit refreshing about that probably if I'm reading between the lines with some of those players.

I think he's one of the biggest winners of the episode of a couple of the show itself.

I mean, the coach goes one way or the other because you can get the huge huge actson experience where there's a lot of, wait a minute, what is this guy doing in charge of all this?

I think Ibra Fluce, who part of, part of it is like, he was the guy in that coach photo that like on Good Morning Football and everywhere else, it's like, wait a minute, who's that?

And how did he sneak into this group photo with everyone else?

And it's like, we now understand who he is.

I mean, he's gotten identities on a team that's rising.

But I just want to, like, the show itself, and Dan, I know we've always been a little bit different about hard knocks.

But as a comparison, I've been watching like Receiver on Netflix, where they dug in deep on the first episode with Debo Samuel and George Kittle.

And I already felt like I knew those guys a little bit, but I learned so much about them and about the Niners.

And it was so refreshing.

And so the hard knocks for me thrives.

And there have been moments like this where I learn more about Ebra Flues.

I learned a lot about Caleb.

I mean, I've learned about the team to some degree.

But then I feel like they've gone down the road more of late where the first episode was 20 minutes on the Hall of Fame game that was canceled in the third quarter because of rain.

It's like, I don't need to rewatch the entire entire preseason game in today's climate when we have so much footage of that.

And to me, the beats,

I don't know, I feel like it's a little bit like Kevin Smith's movies where it's like it's the same stuff kind of over and over.

And you can find joy in that and you can learn from it.

But I am a little bit of a cynic when it comes to hard knocks in terms of like season 406.

And it feels like they've not found a way to make it as fresh as it could be.

But that's me being cynical, and that's, I may be out in the wilderness on that one.

I don't disagree with you, though, Mark, because I'm a bit cynical whenever I watch it because I see it from the perspective of, you know, when you're a beat writer, and Mike knows this too, like you're on the ground, you see some of the shit that happens in real life as it really happens.

And then you turn around and you see one of these shows, and it's not at all how things happened, or it was clearly staged, or you're in a press conference, and someone does something, and it's clearly been set up to be like that.

Like, that happens so much.

And so I watch it through the lens of, like, we're not getting as fresh as we potentially could.

Please don't make that a drop because

it's not, it's not real.

Some of it is not real.

The teams, the PR teams, go back behind the scenes and they can edit whatever they want.

Now, I enjoy this season of Hard Knocks probably more than a lot of other seasons that I've watched because I do think there's like this really personal quality in some of it, like Eberflus coming through the way that he is.

And I love watching more about Caleb Williams.

I love learning more about this guy.

I love seeing how his teammates are around him.

I love seeing how, was it Tyson Bajant who like rattled in his chair when he talked about his son?

Like those little moments, infusing some of the

editing with some of those little moments.

I think we're kind of on the edge of something less cynical, I think.

But we're still in the place where, and that's my, I share your opinion in a way on that of like, let's get more of those like really organic moments, you know, like I just, I want more of that because that's what football is.

That's what like being in these buildings and like watching people grow up and like learning about each other and like going through stuff and then figuring it out every single day.

That is what football is.

And like, that's, that's what they should be showing and not scripting it.

And I'm not saying they script all of it, but they shouldn't be setting up moments or editing things.

And I get the complications of competitive advantage and things like that.

But like.

Football is so freaking beautiful because of the humanity of it.

And like, that's why I really want just more of those, like, like, really organic pure minds.

Yeah, as someone who's watched probably every season of the show, you could definitely tell that there's a little bit more scrubbing going on with the show these days, right down to the point that we're three episodes in, there's no cursing.

And then a hard knocks producer came out, or an NFL films producer came out and said that was done out of respect for the McCasky family.

I'm like, what are we talking about?

The respect for the family.

They even had, I think, with Jalen Johnson

press conference where they edited his actual response to take out a couple of F-bombs.

And, you know, you have scenes like, all right, let's cut to a bunch of people in a boardroom sitting together looking at what stools they're going to use at the new stadium.

It's like, this is not stuff I remember being in the old hard knock.

So there's something a little more

sanitized about the show.

But I think that's also because, Mike, we've heard now for years that...

Teams don't want to do the show.

And as long as that's going to be the case, if there's this big pushback to do the show, there's going to be concessions made like not using the f word and showing how which stool they're going to use at the bar at the new billion dollar stadium like that's going to be part of the show going forward which is kind of a bummer but i think it's kind of a reality yeah the the no profanity thing is like nuts if you've ever been around like a football practice you know like come on like what are we doing here but also i think hard knocks i'm a couple uh episodes behind on this particular one but the in the big picture it does feel a little bit

like a reflection of what we see in the sports documentary world right now where like the subject of the documentary is like an EP on some of these like shows, you know, maybe Michael Jordan just ruined that with Last Dance, but like that just changes the whole thing where you can tell like, hey, well, there's this backdoor agreement where it's like, hey, we'll shape the show, the doc, how you want, but agree to do it with us, you know, or help us get such and such, you know, I feel like the Johnny Menzel doc was like that and a few others I watched, maybe Florida one, two, the Urban Meyer stuff.

Like it feels like

it's almost like access, I don't call it journalism per se, but like access filmmaking a little bit.

We're like, you know, you scratch my back and it helped me get this thing made.

I like it.

I'll end with a positive because it's like the one show, one football show my wife loves watching.

We watch it together.

A lot of these tropes of the hard knocks

that have built up over the years, like I enjoy them too.

It's comfort food for me, and I just watch it on the couch.

Like, I love when, for instance, the guy at the back of the depth chart, in this case, the quarterback Austin Reed, and he's got a $5,000 bonus, and he's like the whitest dude that's ever lived.

And then, when he does the Keisha Cole song, Love, and he brings the house down, and you hear, like, okay, white chocolate, and you hear like everyone going absolutely mad.

Like, that happens almost every year on that show.

And I never get tired of it.

It's just, I like to see that kind of fun, like, brotherhood behind the scenes vibe, and the guys enjoying each other that you don't always get to see as a fan.

So, there, even the stuff that's kind of well-worn at this point, I still like, but I do like the raw side of things too.

And you guys bringing that perspective as people inside the buildings, that makes a lot of sense as well.

So that's hard knocks.

Any other comments before we jump back in?

Oh, Justin.

I'll throw one in there.

And this is on the heels of like the Tua, Brian Flores, every convoy.

It's like turned into every defensive-minded coach doesn't have a good relationship with their quarterback because of one thing that Tua said about Brian Flores.

But I was really impressed and like, maybe not surprised, but a little surprised to see the scene where Matt Eberflus is breaking down film with Caleb Williams.

And obviously, Eberflus is a defensive guy, but like all these guys know both sides of football, or they wouldn't be in the positions they're in.

But it's still, it's cool to see, like, him taking the time.

Like, obviously, he needs to take the time.

Number one overall pick, got to get him up to speed and make sure he's ready to go.

But I just love, I love seeing the in-depth football stuff where it's like, how was your footwork on this play?

Where were your eyes on this play?

That kind of stuff is my favorite part of the show.

Unless like an HBO assistant producer came in and said, you two sit together in a rib.

No, no, I actually, I mean, that was a very effective scene that showed a lot about both of them.

That's what I like about it.

When they

find a way to capture that, is another button down?

No.

No?

It looks like it.

I've not altered my shirt.

All right, let's see.

It is like 126 degrees in this room.

All right.

All right, white chocolate chill.

All right, let's move out of the NFC North now and move to the NFC South, starting with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

And yes, Mark Sessler.

The Bucks were a psilocybin daydream last autumn.

That's how I view them.

They went 2-7 in games when the opponent scored 18 or more points.

That's wild.

They were a measly 4-6 when Dan sat down for his Thanksgiving turkey, his cranberry sauce, his sausage stuffing, various gravies, green bean casserole, roasted sweet potatoes, oven-baked Brussels sprouts, garlic mashed potatoes, Emily Hansis's Texas-style creamy mac and cheese, the only mac and cheese I've ever eaten, Butternut crumpets, Tito's and soda by the glass, a cinnamon pie from Doris Axelrod.

That's what they're saying.

So then the Bucs go five and one down the stretch.

They blast Philly in the playoffs and sit tied with the Lions heading into the fourth quarter of a tight divisional playoff loss.

Dave Canalis, Duger knows his geno work, was big for Baker Mayfield.

Jordan, now it's Liam Cohen.

He's the new guy.

Can he do even more for a team that was 20th in points scored?

Is this pairing an upgrade, a downgrade, or just another slice of pizza at 2 a.m.

on the blazing street when nothing matters but drowning out the darker voices in one's mind?

Whoa.

Dan, you need to pop a pepto after that one?

There's a lot there.

It sounds dangerous.

I don't want to discredit.

Dave Canalis for the work that he's done with quarterbacks and in offenses.

And Pete Carroll

is his mentor.

We'll get to Dave Canalis in a minute further along in the NFC South.

But I don't want to discredit Liam Cohen and Zach Robinson, another coach we're going to talk about in the NFC South, because they were actually the ones who helped turn Baker around when he was in Los Angeles.

They were not even Sean McVay, who worked with them, yeah, but those two guys specifically were the ones who worked every day, every minute.

in the classroom, extra hours with Baker Mayfield to turn his career trajectory around and get to carry that confidence into another building to where he matched very well with Dave Canalis.

And I'm not going to discredit anybody for their work on that, but I do think it feels like good vibes between Baker Mayfield and Liam Cohen.

And I also think that we don't talk enough about the potential of this passing game.

Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Jalen McMillan.

This has really sneaky, high production potential.

But again, the Baker Mayfield of it all, is he streaked?

Is he going to regress, stay forward, whatever?

It just sounds like, though, that there are good vibes in those offensive rooms right now.

And on defense, I got a couple of dudes.

We don't talk about Levante David enough.

Mike.

Yeah, it's, by the way, headline four days ago, we mentioned on the other show, but it's worth saying.

This is literally a headline, Mike.

Bucks still don't know why Gregory never reported for him to Randy Gregory.

So

we'll find out one day, but the Bucs will find out before us, I would think, or maybe they won't at all.

Yeah, the Bucs are a weird team.

Their post-like Brady relevance is kind of funky, but I do think they could could be frisky.

All right, the Saints.

The Saints, for whatever reason, have become to me like punching bags of the football Cagna Sante.

And I don't totally follow, I think much of that goes back probably to the coach and the QB.

For years now, you can't be a card-carrying pigskin academic.

Wow, I feel really, I sound really insecure right now, unless you windmill dunk on Derek Carr whenever possible.

And as if it's his fault that front offices tend to overpay the 15th best quarterback in the league.

And Dennis Allen doesn't strike me as a difference maker necessarily, as a head coach, but he's talked about like he's Bud Kilmer in varsity blues.

You're going to be second string all your life, boy.

These men are not Antichrists.

They are just not difference makers.

And maybe that's the greater frustration for Saints fans in this post-Breeze Peyton era.

What I'll be looking for, you got Clint Kubiak, who's replacing Pete Carmichael as OC, and that's something to watch here.

The Saints badly needed to upgrade their offensive identity.

And Kubiak, fresh off stint as the passing coordinator for San Francisco, knows a thing or two about getting the most out of a quarterback without special traits.

Sorry, Mark.

There's talent on this roster, and talent and good coaching can turn a mediocre passer into a good one.

I think Carr and company can quiet the chorus of haters this season, temporarily, anyway.

How say you?

You, you, you, you, you.

Alliteration King over there.

That, that was, that, my brain broke a little bit on that one.

I like the Kubiak fit with the quarterback.

You're trying to, I say this all the time.

I say it too often.

I apologize in advance, but you're trying to raise the floor, right?

That's really the game of middle-tier quarterback play.

You're trying to raise the floor.

And having a Kubiak who has previous tenure specifically with Kyle Shanahan and in San Francisco,

I do think that that was a really, really good hire for them.

And this team, I mean, that's built a lot around their defensive identity.

And their defense has kind of been badass for the last couple of years,

and for longer, frankly, even if they haven't showed it, reciprocated on the offensive side of the ball.

Do players on the Saints like Derek Carr?

Like, I genuinely wonder.

That's a good question.

You know, I think that's a very different question.

I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know.

Because that's the thing about being like a middle-income guy, which is fine.

You know, you can get by with that.

Kirk Cousins is a legend at the bank, basically, on that.

But the problem is when you go somewhere else, like now all your benefit of the doubt is gone.

You know, like I'm observing that from afar with like someone like Russell Wilson, who was better than middling, but you know, like it's the same effect.

You go to Denver and it's like, bro, you won nothing here.

So like prove it again.

And if you're Derek Carr, it's like, well, are you good enough to prove it again?

And if you're not proving it, do guys like you on a day-to-day basis?

You know, like, I feel like I've mentioned the people side of some things a few times talking about some of these teams, but it matters, you know, and all these teams suck.

The deep dive stories that we get after always focus on this guy didn't like that guy, that guy didn't get along with that guy.

So that's kind of what I worry about with the Saints offense.

I don't think anybody's running away with this division, including the Atlanta Falcons, Michael Sean Dugar.

You can't dart me because that was just the setup for Mike.

Gotcha, great player.

I see his hand floating.

So I have to get like,

actually, I'll start with this.

The reason that I was one of those people not high on the Michael Pennix pick, and it's not because he went to Washington and I went to Washington State.

Like, I don't have beef with Michael Pennix.

In that regard, I do have beef with the defensive coordinator, Jimmy Lake, who did coach the University of Washington.

I do hate Jimmy Lake's guts.

I have no issue mentioning that.

But the reason I didn't like the Pennix pick, because I looked at their defense and I was like, huh.

You guys could use like a playmaker or two, you know, you know, maybe instead of taking the succession plan so early so it was kind of funny for them to get to like august and say huh we sure could use justin simmons and matthew judon couldn't we you know like so the the question i kind of have you know when i look at their team the offense i think they'll be fine you know they're a little 2018 vikingsy in their thought process i think where it's like huh we have the infrastructure let's just add kirk and we'll be fine you know that didn't work super well but More so, I'm worried about like, or the question I have is, you know, Mark Capierce, what you think is, you know, do we believe enough in this defense, you know, now that they've added, you know, a few names we're familiar with that have been playmakers in other paces?

I really like their secondary, and I think that, you know, I was kind of waiting for someone to snatch up Justin Simmons.

And this was curious to me because I don't feel like this is how they look to me, but they were six in total defensive efficiency last year.

I mean, it's they, I think that you get Judon in there as well.

There are players and veterans here that help me believe that they are the best team in this division.

I really believe they are.

I think the offense is going to be a completely different operation post-Arthur Smith, where, you know, there was a lot of frustration and consternation around how he used players.

I think that'll be cleaned up.

I also think just Raheem Morris and Jordan, you know him so well.

This guy to me is a players coach.

You can tell us more, but like I love the idea of him getting a second chance as a head coach at this time with this team.

And they seem to just believe in their decisions.

Every year that Raheem Morris was in Los Angeles, his name would kind of come up

on the hiring cycle, and players from other teams would text him and be like, hey, are you getting one this year?

I'll go with you.

Like, from, you know, he's just that guy in terms of the culture he's built.

I've heard from people in Atlanta, sort of behind the scenes, about how refreshing it feels around there right now.

Well, that's one thing, but you also got to go out and coach a football team and win some games.

We've seen Raheem Morris do a lot more than expected with middle to lower talent.

And I don't think the Falcons are that on defense anymore after after these key veteran additions.

I like that they were super aggressive about the quarterback.

I think we're just fixated on the money, rightfully so, but I think we're just fixated on it as like this immovable object in this decisions timeline.

And it's not.

Teams do not care about dead money anymore.

In this day, like with like what four teams making the playoffs who had the most dead money in the league last year, if they have to move,

they won't care about the money at this point.

They went for their future, and now they're building up their defense on the backside.

Jordan, close it out with the worst team in football a year ago, the Carolina Panthers.

I have a lot of notes, so pardon me

for reading them.

Let me now you got two minutes and 55 seconds.

Okay, I just did want to

thanks, Justin.

I appreciate you.

I wanted to get this right.

I read a tweet from my friend Darren Gant this week, Panthers.com, also a great dive bar buddy, about Dave Canales gently plucking a moth off the practice field and transporting it out of harm's way.

If Bryce Young gets even a little of that type of protection and care from his coach in 2024, we might be able to actually fairly evaluate the kid.

And all I'm asking from Bryce Young this year and all I'm asking from the Carolina Panthers this year, and I want them to win, I want them to succeed.

Charlotte, I just, I want this for you.

I just want a fair evaluation on this quarterback.

Deontay Johnson, great player, gets open, defense, sneaky olden key spots, outside linebacker, nickel, inside linebacker, and they're thin at pass rush and corner, so I worry about that.

Derek Brown rules.

Taylor Moten needs more love for his consistency.

Austin Corbett is back at center.

Dan, do you think at minimum we're going to get a better evaluation of Bryce Young this year?

Oh, God, I hope.

You felt terrible for the guy last year, as much as you could feel terrible for a number one overall pick and all the great things in life that come with that.

But he was was just not in any position to succeed.

When you are an undersized quarterback and your offensive line is terrible and your receivers cannot separate,

that is a vicious stew of pain.

So, you know, they've obviously invested in the offensive line and you hope that it can't be worse.

It can only be better.

And I thought it was a great move to get Deontay Johnson.

It's cruel, obviously, in addition to the way the team struggled on offense to then not have the benefit of having the number one overall pick that went to Chicago, obviously.

So there's still a team

that's paying for the pain of last year.

So I'm giving Bryce Young a fresh start here, Sess Dog, and hoping for the best, but there's also a lot of pressure on him now.

Year two is when it's kind of make or break in a lot of ways before the real doubts kick in for teams.

I like the canalis pairing.

I think last year also the coaching chaos, you know, the protection.

Robert Hunt was a really big pickup.

That's a good player right there.

You mentioned Johnson, Xavier Laguette, Jonathan Brooks.

They're suddenly the team that's spending the 10th most money on offense.

And I saw, you know, this was, they were a bad team.

It's a bad place for a rookie quarterback to go.

He did not, he did himself no favors either.

I think there's questions about any player of his size in today's NFL.

You can't just point to the two guys that were short that thrived as quarterbacks because most of them don't.

And Mike, how do you feel?

Because what is a successful season for this quarterback?

Competence probably is like the best way to probably quantify success.

I guess that's not quantifying, that's a word, but you guys get my point.

I do believe in Dave over there.

I was talking to someone kind of familiar with the team's thinking, you know, with overpaying for guards, and it was just like it was this simple.

Quarterback is short, we can't have anybody walking back into him.

We overpaid for it, it'll keep him alive in 2024.

We'll be right back.

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All right, we are back.

We got one more division to go, but before that, let's do a little housekeeping.

Reminder: we have new social handles at Heed the Call Pod on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok.

I haven't dug in on the old TikTok yet, but I know SessDog is all over TikTok, especially after midnight.

So I'm going to check in with him.

I asked for 10,000 Instagram followers.

Oh, no, what did I ask for, Justin?

I asked for 10, what did I ask for?

Let's take a look.

10,000 members on the subreddit, but we'll take 10,000 Instagram followers, too.

All right.

How are we doing on the subreddit challenge as we tape this?

We're at 9K as we recorded.

Guys, guys.

I mean, we had a crazy summer, guys.

Can you give us 10,000?

That's all I'll say.

Or just heed the call on the subreddit.

The YouTube channel is at Underdog NFL.

And if you're watching on YouTube, remember to like the video and subscribe to the channel.

And also, you know, five-star reviews are good things.

And

also, if you want to support this new show and make our new bosses happy, you can start playing on Underdog today.

Download the Underdog Fantasy app, sign up with the code HTC and receive up to $1,000 in bonus cash for our U.S.

audience only.

And we're still taking Connor Orr theme song submissions.

They are flying in.

And I mean, shoot, I mean, we might have to come up with some Jordan and Dugar versions as well.

But let's look, we're starting with Connor.

Send those to HeedtheCall Football Show at gmail.com.

All right, to the NFC West, a division that, hell, if we don't have this division nailed, we're in trouble on this show.

Let's start with the San Francisco 49ers and Jordan Rodrigue.

This is a tribute to the great Mark Sessler.

Doris Axelrod was not born to fade away.

After 10 years spent biding her time in the tri-state area, suffering no fools after one shitty date at Baskin-Robbins, Doris moved to San Francisco and became a pilot.

She bought a pair of bell-bottom jeans that make her legs look 60 miles long and a leather bomber jacket with removable shearling collar because our Doris loves a statement piece with versatility.

She devotes her adult years to attempting to fly her single passenger plane to the edge of outer space.

Doris knows the engine is good and her pilot prowess makes it better.

But with each trip to the fringes of Earth's atmosphere, more parts are lost.

The plane rattles and bits of it chip away to age or attrition.

Doris Axelrod knows she might get one more trip in this plane, one more effort to touch the heavens and transcend the mere mortals of her daily existence.

Mark, does Doris, does Kyle Shanahan finally touch God?

First of all, accurate, non-fiction, well done, all true.

That is all true, biographical information.

I see a real parallel.

If anything has brought me true sadness over the past couple of years, it's what's happened to the Niners in the Super Bowl twice, in the playoffs.

I believe in Doris Axelrod and her future, and I believe in Kyle Shanahan and the Niners.

They are my pet team, and I need to get it.

We're so good, but we can't win this Super Bowl.

Dan and I have been battling about this for a long time.

Like, give me a break.

Kyle Shanahan.

It's so hard.

No, I disagree.

They must do it this year, or I don't know what I'll do.

I don't know what I do.

I love what you wrote, Jordan.

I'm a Niners person.

I will win.

I know, I wrote it.

That's a tribute to you, Mark.

Beautifully said.

I know exactly what you're going at there.

Mike, I'll ask this because because with my team, the Jets, everyone's like, oh, the Tyron Smith signing, brilliant.

But, you know, he's going to get hurt.

He's old or whatever.

You have Trent Williams here, who's like been the anchor of this offensive line.

He's not getting any younger, and he's held out this whole summer

over a contract issue.

Kyle Shannon said, hopefully it's getting close.

He said that today, I believe.

But that's lingering as an issue I'm concerned about.

Again, let's leave out the Brandon Ayuk drama as well.

There is some stuff bubbling with this team.

Yeah, well, before I get to that, I feel like, Dan, it it was you who made the Prince mention.

I feel, what is the Jordan's opening there?

It reminds me of that Prince song.

It's the one we talk about.

Is it Starfish and Coffee?

I want to say.

I don't know.

Plagiarizer.

Yeah.

No, no, no.

It's not stolen from that.

But, like, that's one of my, my mom's, like, a big Prince fan.

So, like, I randomly know, like, Prince songs.

That's what she used to drive me to school.

But yes, that was beautiful.

I think it is Starfish and Coffee, a song about Cynthia.

I think it's the main character there.

But it's funny talking to some people in the Seahawks.

They're just like, yep, we used to deal with that shit when our team was good.

Now the Niners got to deal with all those holdouts and disgruntled jokes.

Good luck.

That's kind of how they feel.

I'll take a dart.

Trent Williams is going to get figured out.

They'll probably end up keeping Brandon Ayuk unless the Commandos make a late push.

We'll see.

Who knows?

Who knows if that I would if I were them.

Dart me.

Dart me.

That would be very bad news for that quarterback if Brandon Ayuk isn't around.

All right, the Los Angeles Rams.

And you like what I did here.

Michael Sean Dugar, lead the way there.

Yeah, I liked Jordan's just trying to load up on Arizona State players on the commanders here,

it appears, which is fine.

You know, it's okay.

Yeah, the Rams.

I love that we mentioned Aaron Donald earlier and how he's destroyed the Seahawks because I feel like that is from a Seattle perspective and maybe around the league too because he's gotten a lot of people fired.

Like that is

the question.

That's the focus when I look at the 2024 Rams.

Because, like I mentioned, I've covered the Seahawks since 2017.

And he has, I watched Aaron Donald, you know, multiple times a season.

You know, I watched him get several key Seahawks people fired in 2020 when they had the best defense in the league.

You know, so I know Sean McVay is a genius.

I trust him.

He could put any of us at quarterback and we'd probably at least get a first down.

You know, he's that good.

But Aaron Donald was like the ultimate game breaker.

He really, you know, quadruple teamed, triple teamed.

So, I mean, I feel like I have to toss this to Jordan, you know, like, how much faith should people have in a Rams defense in a post-Aaron Donald world?

It's, it will never be the same.

It will be different.

And in some ways, it can be great, but it just will never be the same as what it was.

And you can't replace him.

And they never even said they would try.

They basically were like, yeah, we can't replace this guy.

So let's go draft multiple players who we feel can can at least bring us some production because of what significance we are losing.

Jared Verse and Brayden Fisk having the chemistry that they did, that they do coming from Florida State together.

You're not wasting a year trying to build that among multiple pass rushers, an interior guy and an outside linebacker.

That was what they thought.

Now, this defense will grow up over time.

Like I said,

like we talked about with the Giants, they spent a lot on veterans in their secondary, and they're going to help the front in the meantime as that front grows up.

Now, the injuries are sketchy

on that front,

in the secondary, and on that point.

But if they can figure it out that way, this defense will develop over time.

Hey, Jordan, I have a question for you.

What is well, I guess we both have a question.

Do you want to ask

him?

Okay, no, you're not.

Because, you know, I feel like Sean McVay's mental

whereabouts has been a subplot in various seasons.

What's the vibe of Sean McVay this summer right now?

How are are we feeling about him?

Yeah, he feels like he did a lot of hard work to figure out what was going wrong in his brain.

And

I,

you know, without giving too much of another person's business away, like I 100% believe and know that he, that he did that and went to different avenues to do that and talked to different people, support, built a support system that was maybe different than what he had previously had.

And this team, like to Mike's point earlier, this team will go as the head coach goes.

Head coach is in a good place.

The team will be in a good place.

I'm going to take a dart here.

Well, actually, let's just take a timeout because I wanted to take one here.

Oh, good.

Timeout.

Jordan, boots on the ground.

I'm curious, one thing we didn't see, we saw a spectacular rookie season for Puka Nakua, historic, in fact, but we didn't really ever get to see in any meaningful way Puka Nakua and the great Cooper Cup performing at a high level at the same time because Cooper's season just got blown up by injuries.

How has he looked this summer?

And I mean, how unstoppable could this offense be if Stafford and those two wide receivers stay healthy?

Well, I could tell you what they're trying to do.

It remains to be seen because Puka even, like, he landed on a bursa sack in his knee, so he hasn't been practicing.

Cooper looks healthy, looks older, but does look healthy and is moving around doing all the things that he generally does with Matthew Stafford on the field.

And, you know, what they would like this to look like is a reincarnation of Cooper Cup and Robert Woods.

And then Demarcus Robinson is in a little bit of that, like reincarnation of that Brandon Cook's role a little bit.

And then they've got Colby Parkinson, who's like Tyler Higbee, but five years ago.

And, you know, it's just, they're kind of, it's, uh, it's a little on the nose that Sean McVay went about reinventing himself a little bit because this team is a bit of a reincarnation of a previous team that they had.

As a writer, I love that.

But also as a human, I'm like, okay, where did it go wrong last time?

And how can we make sure it didn't go wrong in that way?

And what are we doing to prevent?

And there's injuries and some players are older.

But they want it to look like Cooper Cup and Robert Woods.

And they want that.

for fantasy football people, which I know a lot of them watch the show and Josh and Hayden's great work at Underdog Fantasy got it and nailed it.

They want that volume to be like that.

They want those two guys to be the guys in this offense.

And then Demarcus Robinson to also have that split and 11 personnel, but they're going to do some different things too.

So with a couple new guys on the horizon.

But I think in an ideal world, that's what they'll look like for Sean.

Is Jordan going to get aggregated for saying Cooper Coffee looks, quote, older?

Please, God, no.

I have anxiety.

Don't do this to me.

That gives me just

please don't do this.

This gives me anxiety.

Does he look older?

He's going to be thick on Cooper Cuff.

No, he's just, he's going to be 31.

Like, you know, with receivers on the other side of 30, you just, it's a conversation you have.

Like, he looks, he's running around great on the field.

He looks like himself out there.

Again, albeit you know that he's on the other side of 30 because it's just a fact, but he looks healthy out there.

And I think that's first and foremost really important.

Include that in your blurb, too, Justin.

I was going to ask about Jordan Whittington because hook him, I love him, but I'm instead I'm going to ask about something that maybe

college football energy with Gravedere and Dugar on the show that I wasn't expecting, but I'm kind of here for it because we've never had such a thing before.

I know he kind of subtly roasted two Arizona State transfers, too.

Like,

hit me where it hurts.

Jimmy Lake needs to get extra security after the Dugar monologue earlier.

Oh, man.

Yeah, I'm not a big.

That's a whole nother pocket.

I just really just don't like that guy, man.

I just really do not, you know.

I hope Ricky Morrison.

Aggregate that.

Please, please do.

Michael Sean Dugar of the Athletic dislikes Falcons defensive quarter to Jimmy Lake.

I'm perfectly fine with that headline.

Unbelievable.

100%.

It's okay.

20-point fun.

All right, Gravedigger, go ahead.

So last week, there was this viral thing that happened at the Rams Chargers game where a guy tried to propose to a girl and she emphatically said no, and then he got like soda and nachos spilled all over him.

But you, Jordan, maybe were the one to break that this was a staged skit.

Like, what

was this moment about, and why did it happen?

And why was everyone freaking out?

Oh my god, you're just in the Menshees there.

Like, wow.

No, I mean,

I am

roasted by all of my colleagues for arriving at the press box way earlier than needed.

And

you watch them go through like their game day,

you know, events that they're going to have.

The Chargers, I think, run an incredible game day atmosphere.

They always have cool stuff, they think about things, they have like memes, and as all the things that we love about what they do on the internet, like they also do

in real life at these games.

And I

saw a rehearsal of an in-game proposal

that then I finally looked up and I saw like the real thing, quote unquote, like unfolding in real time.

Felt bad.

The reason why I tweeted is I felt bad for the guy who caught like a bunch of cheese to his back because I didn't see him as a part of any of this.

And he got some cheese to the back, but apparently it was all good.

It was all smoothed over fine.

And it was a funny moment.

So Chargers fans, I love what your internet and content team does.

Please don't come after me.

I appreciate you guys.

The fight in Jim Harbas, Michael Sean, you should know that, and I, and you'll be forgiven if you have no idea what this means, because I certainly didn't know what it meant.

I still kind of don't know what it means.

That our producer, Justin Graver,

is in a relationship, a committed relationship, with a Swiss woman, a wonderful girl.

I love her.

We call her Jessica.

And they have been, quote,

pre-engaged for

in upwards of two to three years and speaking of proposals i mean at some point

so justin is obviously sniffing around for how he's gonna do it do you find like that maybe the you can overthink the proposal at a certain point and especially like i'm just gonna be real like jessica is like a smart beautiful woman like Justin's got to lock this down a little bit at a certain point, and he hasn't yet.

Like, he should just do it, right?

It's time to do it and end this Fakakta pre-engagement.

absolutely as someone who just proposed last may yes man go ahead and and and make it happen i don't even really i don't know if i even want to know what pre-engagement is i just feel like there's a mystique to it that you just like discuss it but never explain it you know it's because that's so strange there's so many you know who was pre-engaged you know who i guarantee was pre-engaged for like two years russell wilson

I could see that.

I could absolutely see that.

Yeah.

The whole, yeah, he's

just do it, buddy.

Religious, you know, celibacy.

Yeah, was that was weird is celibacy attached to pre-engagement perhaps is that personal question but we're gonna ask it anyway just an answer

not not that i know of there we go

there we go

all right congrats in advance on your upcoming engagement moving on yeah uh let's uh close things oh not close things out the penultimate

Team in this conversation today is the Seattle Seahawks.

Here we go.

McDonald has arrived in the mighty NFC West with his sword and shield, a mighty and influential defensive coach who now must do battle with the likes of Shanahan and McVay, the two standard bears of offensive strategy in the modern game.

This sounds epic, like the setup for Star Wars episode 37, Jar Jar's Revenge.

Sorry, Mark.

Anyway, McDonald's defenses are masters of disguise and unpredictability, and it makes for a fascinating subplot in Pro Football's most zesty division.

There, I said it.

Michael Sean Dugar, what are your early impressions of McDonald?

And does he have the horses on D to turn the NFC West upside down?

Yeah, one of the thinkings in Seattle is that, like, he doesn't need the elite horses.

Like, it's nice if, obviously, if he has them, you know, but you know, he doesn't need like Legion of Boom was just like, we're just better than you.

We can run whatever we want and we'll beat you.

Whereas the Seahawks believe that Mike was able to elevate a bunch of guys like a Geno Stone, Michael Matabuke, you know, like take them, even Kyle Hamilton, just like take them to wherever they were and just elevate it.

You know, Kyle Hamilton's a blue chip, so maybe he's a bad example.

But even like Patrick Queen, who, you know, you talk to people in Baltimore, he was like, okay, before Mike showed up, and then Mike showed up and it's like, oh, this guy's a baller.

I think he was second team all-pro last season.

So that's kind of Seattle's thinking.

It is kind of interesting he came to this division because he's kind of known, at least from Seattle's perspective, is like, oh, he just like beat the hell out of the Niners on Christmas.

That was great, you know?

But then the game that I go back to, and I even told him this like last week, was, man, how about that game against Matthew Stafford in the rain in Baltimore where Matt and just Puka with no gloves was like carving you up?

You know, I didn't say it like that, but I said it more in like a way was like,

like how much, how tough it can be in this division and how much respect we both have for Matthew.

I think that was really what that conversation was about, because as much as it was impressive that he shut down Purdy and what the Niners had going on, like the Rams are going to be, I've watched the Rams, I've mentioned this a few times.

They get people in Seattle fired, you know?

So, and then when you can beat them, it's probably how you get a contract extension.

Like, that's going to be the mandate here.

Can you be a better defensive whiz

than what Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan are bringing on offense?

You know, that's that's everything.

They have the confidence, of course.

They're paying him a bunch of money, but I do think it doesn't even matter if he has the horses because they're relying so much right now, you know, on his genius, really, to kind of beat those two.

I saw one of your articles had a headline that you thought this could be the best cornerback group that Seattle has ever had.

That's saying a lot.

Yeah, I mean, it is, but it's not really.

It's funny.

I wrote that and then Sherm came into practice today, and that's the first thing I thought when I saw him.

I was like, oh shit, did he see that?

He didn't.

But yeah, I mean, you think about it.

They had Brandon Browner and Richard Sherman, Pro Bowl guys, but when Nickel became the new normal, they never had a third guy.

Seattle has basically what they have on the receiver

at corner.

A really elite trio, I think, potentially

i feel like we should get like an

addition of time when it's one of the people that covers the team so i just want to ask one more question

what is what's it like that pet carroll is there for what 17 years or whatever

um

14 how long was it 14 i think 14 like he wanted to be there for 17 or maybe 24.

like How different is it there?

Does it feel like a much different energy in that building now?

And did you think it was overdue?

Yeah, the energy is different.

I definitely felt, I don't know, overdue was maybe strong.

What really did it for me, I mentioned the identity thing.

One of the scenes that set that for me was in week 18 when they beat the Cardinals last year.

They beat a bad Cardinals team off of Matt Prater pushing a field goal.

I'm pretty sure because of whatever Quandre said to him, Quandre Diggs, that is after they ran off the field.

Quandre and him played in Detroit together.

So whatever he said to him, I'm pretty sure it it made Prater miss that field goal.

Anyway, so they beat that team barely.

And then the D-line and the defense is like smoking cigars in the locker room after, you know, and this is after going like nine and eight, missing the playoffs, you know, and it's a lot of guys on offense and the veterans are walking around like, what?

Isn't our season over?

And then the other side of the room is like, well, yeah, that's why we're celebratory.

We made it through.

And it just, you would never see a Pete Carroll Seahawks team smoking cigars after doing anything other than winning a Super Bowl.

Not even after the, I heard some guys didn't even go to the little event they had for winning the NFC in 2014 because they were just like, that's not the goal.

You know, they were very on some Kobe Jobs Not Finished stuff back then.

So fast forward 10 years later, it's like, oh, you got Stogies in here after not even making the playoffs.

Now, that just kind of made me feel like...

This is no longer a Pete Curl team.

However, you want to go about changing that is whatever, but that was like undeniable in the moment.

But

the vibes are good, you know?

The vibes are good here.

I mean, the vibes are good everywhere.

You know, in August, sure.

Let's ask, let's ask everybody how the vibes are after like week one or after their first loss on prime time.

That should be the check-in for every team.

When you lose in prime time, interview everyone the next morning and see how your team feels.

Dan knows a little bit about that from last year, huh?

Yeah, I do.

I do.

I learned these things.

All right, finally, we close things out with the Arizona Cardinals and Mearks Yesler.

Do not say my name that way.

So, Jonathan Gannon, yet another defensive-minded coach in this division that we're talking about.

I do think that the Cardinals have one of my favorite rising GMs in Monty Osenford.

And they sunk free agency dollars into defense.

They drafted high up for defense, but they were 32 in EPA per pass allowed last year, 31 versus the rush.

They're scheduled to play the most difficult schedule versus offenses.

And to me, it's just like it's going to be tough to get it going in year two.

I'd love to hear from Dugar on their prospects in the gnarly NFC West after this note from Cardinals obsessive Jason Zumwalt.

Hey, heed the call.

How's it going?

Mark wanted me to come on here and talk about the Cardinals.

I just wanted to say:

Shut your mouth.

Don't talk about them.

Let them come under the radar.

Silent.

Small.

That way you'll never see them creeping up behind you and

overlook them.

Never

think about them.

Love the show, guys.

Take care.

Wow.

That was impressive.

I don't even know how to follow that.

I feel like I should bring the same energy or like bring the exact opposite.

I'm not sure.

It's like when you fire the intense coach and then bring in the players coach.

I think that's the way we do it here.

Yeah, wow.

I am excited for the Cardinals defense just to have NFL players on it, you know, and because I really feel like watching them the last few years, you know, even without those numbers, Mark, I could have guessed that they were just awful at everything because it really just felt like it was Buddha Baker,

Seattle area native, and I'm not going to mention what school he went to, but Seattle area native, and then Jalen Thompson, Wazoo grad, in the back end, and then just guys who were just destined to be selling insurance here in a few years.

But it does feel like they fixed things a little bit.

But also, on the other side of the ball, I'm a huge Kyler Murray guy.

Like, I'm just a huge, he just looks the part.

He's got one of the strongest arms in the league.

He's basically a slot receiver with a cannon.

You know, now that he's free from the shackles of a Cliff Kingsbury offense that just lined D-hop on the left side and had him run bubble screens for a couple of years, I feel like he's just going to ball out.

I don't know if that means any wins, but I do feel like they're going to be super competitive in 2024.

Jordan, isn't that kind of success maybe for the Cardinals this year?

They're in a tough division.

They now have obviously a potential major star at wide receiver Marvin Harrison Jr.

If you can get through this season and there's no more drama around Kyler and he's another full year removed from injury and we're not talking about any of the other outside extraneous stuff and he's your QB and he has a star with him.

Maybe there's something here.

Drew Petzing, Dark Horse Offensive Coach Coordinator of the Year.

We just went around the NFC

in probably 67 minutes.

98.

Okay.

Well, closer to 98.

Well,

let it not be said that, you know, we got it all out there, and we hope you enjoyed it.

I really enjoyed it.

I thought it was a fun app.

I promise both Jordan and Michael Shodugar, who have day jobs with the athletic and read their incredible coverage of their teams and everything else that they put out over on that side, that not every episode will go this length.

But this was an important episode, and we had a lot to unpack.

We had to do our highs and hellos.

We had to go through every team in the NFC.

We had three timeouts and a wonderful getting to know Duke Arsene and Jason Sumbalt scaring the shit out of everybody.

So this was a busy show, and I make no apologies.

Mike, anything else to say?

You've said it all, but anything else?

That really did scare the shit out of me for a second there.

My daughter's not here right now, which is good because I might have just like screamed and woke her up, you know, if she was.

I appreciate the energy, though, because honestly, that's the other thing I was thinking after I got done being scared.

Was I've never seen anyone that passionate about the Arizona Cardinals, you know, and I go there every, you know, once a year, and I just never meet anyone, even at the games, who is that passionate about that team.

So, as long as there are more guys like that, or girls like that, women like that, passionate, I feel like the Arizona Cardinals are in a good place.

Jay is from Kingman.

He is not allowed

to build differently there.

No, he's not.

He's not.

Jordan, Kingman's a wild place, man.

Anything else to add?

Yeah, I'm just trying to reposition my forehead because when I try very hard not to laugh, I get a forehead vein in the shape of the Nile River Delta.

Oh, I love that.

YouTube viewers will enjoy that.

And so I'm trying to get the glare so that it hides it.

Nice little blur.

So I'm focused on that right now.

I don't think you have to worry about that.

Did you ever, like, was there a time in life where you were self-conscious enough and you went bangs?

Did you ever have a bangs

phase as a result?

I never did bangs because I have a long forehead.

Man, you got a lot of forehead stuff to work through.

Yeah, it's just a lot of therapy, you know.

Like, it's my twin sister nicknamed me the Vane when we were in elementary school.

So that's right.

You have a twin sister, but she doesn't have the vein.

No, she's gifted and blessed.

Yeah, God touched her a little bit differently than me.

Well, you look wonderful, Jordan.

Thank you to both Michael Schoen and Jordan.

And like I said, Mark, we're going to have

these two wonderful people every Thursday during the season breaking down the action.

It's going to be a little bit of a different Thursday show than

we had on the old show, but we think it's going to be a lot of fun.

And hope you learn about football while you have said fun.

Let's go.

That's it.

There's nothing else to say here.

Thank you to Justin Graver, the grave digger.

Until next time, that's two weeks in the book, Sess Dog.

Heat the call.

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