49ers-Aiyuk Agita + Rookie QBs with James Palmer

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The Heed the Call Podcast.

Daddy has finally come home.

Indeed, we are back.

Episode two of Heed the Call with Dan Hansis and Mark Sessler.

Oh, very exciting.

And you know what, Mark?

Hi, Mark.

How are you, buddy?

I am faring well.

I hope the same is true of you.

I would say so.

I cannot tell you

how

happy I am for us

to do what I believe will be a fairly normal episode today, episode two.

I am not a person who avoids conversation that can center on one's own self.

The ingredients of the tugboat Tiramasu does require a dash of megalomania.

However,

the Monday show is a necessary but heavy level of

public self-reflection, oversharing that I do not wish to make a regular occurrence.

So no more more confessional earthquakes, no more actual fucking earthquakes, just a fun football show that we can all enjoy together.

Yeah, I thought we, you know, we danced on the edge, the borderline of navel gazing, but we didn't we didn't entirely fall into that trap.

I mean, we've got a different show than some sort of television cable scenario where you just roll out segment after segment.

We got to be real with our listeners.

We were gone for a while.

I wasn't sure I knew how to do this anymore.

That was my concern.

You know, about a minute before we got going, and then you just start talking.

So today, it's just like the reps.

It's just like, we're going to do the reps.

We're going to do a nice show today.

I'm just talking to myself at this point.

And thank you, of course, to the listeners who we thanked profusely in episode one.

But again,

the way you guys,

you know, the outpouring of support and congratulations and positive reviews around the referred show was very nice to hear.

But like we said, it's time to get into more of a normal show.

But as we, and coming up later today, speaking of normal show, James Palmer, wow, another big fish reeled into the HTC boat to talk a little bit about the rookie quarterbacks and where they stand as we get deeper into August.

And we're, what, about three weeks away from the start of the regular season, as hard as that may be to believe.

And also,

James has been, you know, he's a Denver area guy now, and he is in deep and understands what's going on with the Broncos.

So let's check in with the Sean Payton Brigade up there as well.

So that's coming up later.

But since, again, this is still a brand new show, episode two,

I think it's good to interface with the listeners.

And to do that, we have a new segment

called,

well, hit it, Justin.

FAQs with Justin Graver

FAQs, FAQs,

FAQs with a grave digger.

FAQs,

FAQs.

FAQs means facts and questions.

FAQs.

FAQs.

FAQs gives us information.

FAQs.

FAQs.

New seg.

Oh, hey, Justin.

What?

Facts and questions?

That's not right.

Frequently asked questions.

questions.

Although maybe you, Dan, maybe you've thrown on a more modernized or less modernized version.

I don't know.

Is that true?

Yes, frequently asked questions is what it means.

Or has meant for, you know, as long as acronyms have been around.

Yeah, that does make sense now that I think about it.

I have heard frequently asked questions.

But I kind of like facts and questions.

We can change the game.

Now it's facts and questions.

Officially.

It is now facts and questions

with Justin Graver.

Let's get into it.

All right.

here's the first question.

I've gathered these from the internet because we have a lot of...

Here's the other thing about that song.

FAQs means frequently asked questions.

Too many syllables just doesn't fit.

I agree.

If it doesn't fit, you must have figured out.

That's why you are a man built on show.

And, you know, like to the point of saying that you are a creationist, that you come up with a lot of stuff.

I mean, I had no idea that song was coming.

And had I would have corrected the context of it before, but I'm glad that it happened in real time.

There are no reverse gears in this tank.

Let's go.

So, from the internet, subreddit, Twitter, people hitting us up, lots of questions.

These are some of the most frequently asked ones.

Number one, when

these are some of the facts and questions.

That's right.

Yeah,

these are some of the facts and questions.

We're going to provide facts in response to their questions.

Right.

Well, I guess it would be then facts to questions, but all right, let's just keep moving.

When will we get merch?

Take, and by the way, if you already heard, no don't mute it take take the punishment that gravedigger works in apparently uh the bowels of either an old stadium undergoing major reconstruction or that the walls are being torn down all around him but you're gonna hear some banging in the show and that's just gonna be the way it is we can't do anything about it

we'll get to a question about that momentarily yeah semi mark do you have any issues with justin continuing on in the show because he does have a central role uh no i think we need him but he did he did explain to me that

the building that he lives in failed inspections and has not enough pillars holding up the flories on.

And this is

48 hours after a large earthquake.

So, you know, let's go work that.

Let's get this thing done.

That really tells you so much about city infrastructure and how they go about things.

It's like, let's fix this after the earthquake that could have killed 4,000 people.

All right.

Anyway, Justin, what was the first?

Oh, merch.

Merch.

Yes.

Mark,

we are not blind to this request.

We've been getting it for literally probably a decade.

And there were, let's say, complications around the idea of merch

when we were working for a giant corporation like the National Football League.

A lot of those shackles are no longer in place.

And as a result, that is something, Mark, that's coming down the pike.

You know, it's so interesting because I can remember a time that, you know, all four of us, Wes, Greg, you, and myself, talked about merch.

And there was a day at Hanano's, one of Wes's favorite drinking holes, where we sat down and created a handwritten list of kind of just dreaming up ideas for merchandise.

And it was really creative, and we all have

different aspects to it.

And then we found out: wait, this corporation does not want you to do this.

If you do, they will receive all the profits.

Now, we live in a free zone, a place of freedom.

And we have been talking about it at length, Dan, and I think some interesting things are on the horizon.

Absolutely.

Next up.

Next up.

Is there a Patreon or another way to support the heroes?

Ah, okay.

That's a good one.

We are,

again,

not possible in our old regime, but in this one, yes, we will have something that we are actually currently putting together.

We're really excited about it.

It will be a Patreon membership that will provide you with more content from the heroes.

It will also be different type of content.

You're going to get obviously everything that you've ever gotten from the old show.

You're going to continue to get Heed the Call free of charge.

But we're putting together something that we're really excited about that will be launching in the somewhat near future.

And we'll obviously get you the information for those of you that want to be part of that experience.

But we're really excited about it.

It's coming up, Mark.

Yeah, I mean, there's a football element to it, but I think if you can start to imagine some of the people that are in our greater universe here at this new show, it's a lot of other stuff that we've been waiting to do for a long time that we couldn't have done before.

I think some people are going to pee their pants when they find out what we're about to offer.

Up next, pee pants.

Scale, 10 out of 10.

Incontinence.

All right, this was a problem.

Frequently asked fact and question.

Will the show ever be in a studio or will you always be remote?

For the time being, it will be a remote show.

It could be that long term.

Short term, the best and clearest path for us getting back on the air was doing it remotely, and we're going to see how that goes.

And Underdog has been

frankly incredible in terms of their support of us and helping us get off the ground with all the equipment needs and so forth.

And you don't know what the future will hold there in terms of studio.

There are obviously there are a lot of benefits to doing a show from a studio, and we enjoyed obviously doing ATN from a studio, but we also did hundreds of episodes remotely that included some of our best, including about 175 in a row during the pandemic.

So yeah, that's where things are on that.

Next question.

What is the preseason pod schedule?

Some confusion around this and a lot more confusion around, is this going to be a daily podcast in season, or what does that schedule look like?

Sess?

Well, so preseason, preseason, we're going to be Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, three shows a week.

And then we're going to crank up and it's going to look a lot like it did before.

The bio rhythms are very similar.

We're going to have our, obviously, our flagship Sunday night show.

We'll have a show on Monday night after the Monday night game.

We'll have a show on Wednesday, Dan, I believe.

And then our preview show on Thursday.

And all of these will feature some intriguing, exciting, informative, illustrious guests.

We have our Thursday night recap.

And then on Friday and Saturday, Dan and I are put into

carbon freeze until Sunday arrives again.

Did I nail that, Dan?

Next.

Is that correct?

Yep, you killed it.

Point of clarification on that.

You said Monday, Wednesday, Thursday for preseason.

It's going to drop pretty late in the night on Thursdays.

So maybe even

Friday.

Friday job.

Yeah,

I briefly blank there, Mark.

All due respect because I was communicating with our producer.

But yeah, there was some miscommunication based on reporting out there that we were going to do the daily show.

Not a daily show.

No, we're going to do a lot of shows five times a week during the season.

Okay.

Yeah.

Who are some of the other guests going to be?

And not just guests, but like recurring members of the show.

Connor Orr, as you heard.

And everybody else, you will learn in time.

One more question.

One more question.

What happened with the Instagram account?

That was a fun fun one.

The one question

that we do not answer is what happened to the Instagram account?

And while we're here, some housekeeping, new social handles.

At Heed the Call Pod on Twitter.

At Heed the Call Pod on Instagram.

Follow that one.

TikTok is live.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, baby.

I got to start digging into this.

geriatric millennial that I am marked deep in Gen X territory.

I mean, deep, like watching Batman with Adam West.

No, I mean, I can assure you that I have

observed things on TikTok multiple times.

I can promise you that.

Not our show, but I will begin to do that too.

We might be getting up on thread soon.

Apparently, that's a big thing in the UK, we're being told.

Let us know if you want that.

Help us grow that new Instagram.

We're already over or almost to 5,000.

We want to get over what our old Instagram was.

So that's a challenge to you guys.

The YouTube channel, and this is important because Underdog is big on the video side of things.

And if they're big on the video side of of things we're big on the video side of things at underdog nfl if you're watching on youtube be sure to subscribe to the channel and like the video and and comment and you know just put us on the radar there the new subreddit of course is at heed the call we're already up over 7 000 members there let's build that up and get higher than the old show over there please leave five star reviews wherever you listen to your podcast to help us climb those charts and if you really want to support the new show and make our new bosses happy you can start playing on Underdog today, download the Underdog Fantasy app, sign up with the code HTC and receive up to $250 in bonus cash for our U.S.

audience only.

And last but not least, and then we're getting to football, some literal housekeeping.

Mark Sessler.

Yes, behind me, you can see that there are some paintings, some drawings, and some excess white space.

And, you know, compared to where we were about 18 months ago, where I think I had nothing behind me, that everyone thought I was living in some sort of minimum security prison.

Not true.

It was not in a prison.

But I am going to create

country clubs, some version of it.

I'm going to create a P.O.

box, or purchase a P.O.

box.

I'm not going to create it.

And ask if any of you are drawlers or painters that can create small items.

I don't need like a thing that covers the whole wall here, but little items that I can add personalized from you to the show.

I've had a few people already reach out, so I thought that might be an idea.

It's not a demand if you don't like, if you don't like to draw or paint, then I'm not saying you need to do that.

You don't need to.

You don't have to ever touch that stuff if you like it maybe we can uh work together and I I will add that I will accept no art to my P.O.

box if anyone sends me art I will burn it so do not send me anything but very cool great idea Mark let's do some news yeah I'm I'm I'm gonna leave the metaphors to you guys thanks

all right but

what is a metaphor?

What's that?

What is a metaphor?

Like what's the official definition of metaphor?

A metaphor is

like using something as comparison as like an example.

Okay.

All right.

I got it.

Saints head coach Dennis Allen.

And seeing Dennis Allen

flail in front of a microphone does remind me that there's always one coach, Mark, who is

seemingly in

a free fall in terms of peril, impossible level of peril, even before the season starts.

And that guy almost always gets canned in season.

I don't root for this to happen, just and shout out Saints fans, because, you know, we like the New Orleans Saints.

But if there was one guy to pick this year, it will be, it's Dennis Allen.

And that's why a little tease for our upcoming segment that we do every year, the hot butt rankings, that Dennis is going to be prominently involved with that, I would imagine.

Yeah, and it's typically when you come in and it's mid-August or July or May and already people are talking about your job security, it's a coach that's already outstayed their welcome, a little overextended.

And certainly we felt that way about Dennis Allen, you know, 300 plus days ago.

So here we are still with him.

And that just reeks to me of like the coach that's gone through some, that's having a tough time, that goes through the media training and tries to, you know, lobby back and forth with a journalist.

Like, what is a metaphor?

Like, by the way, I wouldn't mind if my head coach, like the Mike McDaniel of the world of the world, like, I want them to know what a metaphor is.

Sorry,

I would like you to have read a book,

at least one book.

Or have the equivalent of a GED in terms of educational knowledge.

Let's get to the news and a little change up here.

Our producer, the gravedigger, is going to lead the news and take us through it.

Let's get going, buddy boy.

All right.

First update here.

Wide receiver Brandon Ayuk.

This comes from Rapsheet.

The Steelers and 49ers have a deal on a potential trade.

Pittsburgh is in a good place with the IUC contract.

And if San Francisco gives the final sign-off, that trade will be done.

At the same time, San Francisco has an offer out to IUC on a long-term deal for him to stay, but he hasn't accepted the deal.

And Mike Garifolo was reporting this yesterday, talking about it, saying that the deal from San Francisco, everything looks good.

They've come to agreements on most points, but there's one thing, and this is how Mike G phrased it.

There's one thing that is still outstanding.

And then if that one thing gets added to the contract, Ayuk will sign it.

What on earth is this one thing?

Is it a no-trade clause?

Is it some guarantee?

Is it

quiet?

What are they waiting for?

Put it in, Brandon Ayuk is

a unicorn.

And I would say, Mark, this is the way...

I would think San Francisco is thinking too, because they don't seem like they want to do a trade.

And it's a little weird how few suitors they have for a guy with this skill set.

But

he has become, four years into his career, pro football's most efficient superstar wide receiver.

We're in a league where you're seeing the ball being passed more than ever.

And Ayuk,

in that Shanahan offense, which you've got to keep in mind also, like where he exists within the ecosystem, he functions as a perfect modern receiver.

His ability

is a perfect match for the scheme of today's game.

And I think San Francisco losing him could have a major ripple effect on their chances to finally get over the hump.

So go all in.

If there's one thing, unless it's some type of poison pill for the organization, figure out a way and keep that guy in the building.

I'm totally with you.

I mean, all we talked about with the Niners' offense a year ago was that

when everyone is healthy, it is an impossible task to try to keep one of them, two of them, every game from breaking out.

And Ayuk and Brock Purdy,

incredible connection.

I mean, you can look and say this is a receiver that's never had more than 78 catches in a season.

And he got off to a bit of a slow start in his career and seemed to be in Shanahan's doghouse.

But the player that we saw last year, and we talked about it all last season, like, this is a star-level wideout.

Now, it's hard to project what he would look like in Pittsburgh with their quarterback situation or team B or C, but we know what he looks like in San Francisco.

We know what they are.

They're on the doorstep of the Super Bowl again after two crushing Super Bowl losses and multiple playoff losses under Shanahan.

I do not remove parts.

You've got $50 million in cap space this year.

It gets rough next year, but none of that matters.

You find a way to sign them and keep them.

We went through this with Debo Samuel.

They went through it with Jimmy G.

It's like we've got to have a summer where we get this thing solved, get it solved soon.

No more drama.

Don't ship him to Pittsburgh, first of all.

Keep him at home and go chase the NFC title once again.

Here is

a great write-up by Ben Solak, who's with the SPN now,

where he just kind of dug into what makes Ayuk special.

This is from Ben's write-up.

Ayuk averaged 3.3 yards per route run, which is the fourth best number for a wide receiver since 2010.

Yards per route is a stable metric, according to Solak, that rewards a receiver for multiple things.

So it's his ability

to get open and then turn

high-percentage plays into big plays makes him a unicorn.

He has the best explosive play rate for a high-volume receiver.

That's more than 100 targets since kind of a random name here, but Alan Robinson in 2015.

And if you pop all the pop the hood stats, put Ayuk's 2013, 2023, excuse me, in the same category as some of the best receivers of the last 10 years, a very

apples-to-apples comparison and the data is like Julio Jones's 2016.

What makes it different and makes Ayuk's stats not as eye-popping, even though close to 80 catches and over 1,300 yards is receiving and six or seven touchdowns is great,

is that the way that offense is operated, there's so many big-time players that it depresses his counting stats a little bit.

How would it work on another offense where he was the true alpha dog?

Of course, the flip side of that gravedigger is

there are some questions here.

Like, how much did Ayuk benefit from having all those big-time players around him, McCaffrey, Kittle, Debo, and obviously the play caller, maybe the best in the league in Shanahan?

And then the other question I would have, if this ends up in a trade and he ends up in Pittsburgh,

how does he operate there?

Because you're going to a place, a new play caller in Arthur Smith, who you know well, Justin, who loves to run the football.

Mike Tomlin loves to run the football.

It gets gray and dreary and cold in Pittsburgh very quickly in the fall.

We're talking about Justin Fields, who's a scattershop passer, and Russell Wilson of today, who's a mediocre quarterback.

I can almost picture it right now.

Brandon Ayuk, this amazing talent in like a late December regular season game against the Ravens with the score bug reading 24-6.

And there's Ayuk with

the full jacket with the hood pulled over on the bench, sulking after another, you know, 2 for 17 game.

I could see it as good as he is.

I could see that too.

There's something about this whole situation that reminds me a little bit.

This is a deep cut.

Mike Wallace with the Steelers, who was great in a system that had a ton of weapons, and then he goes to Miami and never really in his career never matched the same output he had in Pittsburgh.

I think Brandon Ayuk is more talented.

So I think that that's...

I mean, it's definitely a concern, though, when you take someone out of a system that functions really well because they have an excellent play caller and a ton of weapons.

But I will push back on something you said, Dan, that San Francisco not getting a ton of suitors.

I think it's more, they did get a ton of suitors, but no one that Brandon Ayuk wants to go play for.

And for some reason, he is okay going to play for Pittsburgh

for whatever reason.

But I don't know.

There's no trade that makes sense for San Francisco right now.

Like they are in a Super Bowl window.

They have a chance to potentially go.

compete for another Super Bowl this year.

If they trade Brandon Ayuk for draft capital, like great, that might help you in 2025 if you hit on those picks.

What are they doing?

Like, unless they get George Pickens back, who's a young receiver on a rookie contract still, it just doesn't make any sense.

So I don't think San Francisco wants to trade Ayuk at all.

I don't know why they won't just offer him whatever this one thing is.

Give him the one thing.

Sign him.

And by the way, this could bang us because a decision is expected today.

So if this happens before the pod gets out, we're sorry.

Sorry.

To the people.

Fair enough.

Maybe he's asking for a yacht.

We don't know.

What else is in the news?

All right.

Quarterback JJ McCarthy, the rookie signal caller for the Vikings, is going to undergo a knee surgery after tests revealed a torn meniscus.

This was reported together by Rapsheet and the Pell Raiser.

And the point of this surgery is to determine if it

needs a trim.

The meniscus needs a trim.

Wait a second.

Breaking news.

Breaking news.

Breaking news.

Let's hit it.

Just came through 12 minutes ago off the wire.

On homeroha.

NFL Network's Ian Rappaport reports that J.J.

McCarthy underwent a full meniscus tear and is out for the 2024 season.

So the first round pick of the Vikings, a lost rookie season, you know, obviously crushing for the player and a big setback for the team, who they obviously see as the future of the franchise.

This one

has major ripple effects here because what you have now is Sam Darnold, the backup that they signed before.

Sam Darnold.

Oh, that sounds similar,

but different.

We'll get to that a little bit later.

You have Sam Darnold, who is now going to be the entrenched number one.

And there's, you know, I'm very excited for that.

Not excited about the J.J.

McCarthy injury, but very excited to finally see Sam Darnold playing with an offense with big-time players, including the best receiver in the league, and a really good play caller, Kevin O'Connell.

There will be no more excuses for the Darnold Hive after this But obviously the top headline here, Mark O'Connell, will not have his rookie quarterback, J.J.

McCarthy.

It was unclear how much he was going to play this year, but you had a feeling he would be in the starting lineup eventually, and now he's just out of the picture entirely.

No, I mean, yeah, on the scope of what the meniscus surgery could have been, had it been a trim, it would have been a month or so.

This is...

drastically horrible news for J.G.

McCarthy to start.

I mean,

I thought that he had one of the best opening debuts by a rookie quarterback.

I mean, he had the terrible interception out of the gate, then it really came storming back, showed a lot.

He fit well in this system.

You know, reports were that Kevin O'Connell, who had to start five different quarterbacks a year ago.

And they won only seven games largely because of that, had done a lot of work with McCarthy's footwork, with his poise in the pocket, which were things he needed to work on to some degree.

And

that showed up in practice and training camp.

And it was all about getting him reps.

And I thought that, you know, you probably would start the season with Darnold, and McCarthy would have been in there sooner than later.

I really just thought that would be the way they go.

And for guys like Justin Jefferson, you are hoping that Sam Darnold has the season that we've essentially always been waiting for.

He was in a great situation, had he had to play in San Francisco a year ago.

I think this is still a very good situation for Sam Darnold with a good coach, a pretty stacked offense, and a chance to win right away.

But it's a lot suddenly on Darnold.

And this is the...

Absolutely the reverse of what the Vikings were planning.

I just hate to see a rookie quarterback lose the entire chance to play in year one.

It just is the kind of thing that can set you back during your entire rookie contract.

Yeah, it's a bummer.

And yes, there's a lot of pressure on Darnold to finally fulfill expectations.

Third overall pick in 2018.

Totally lost tenure with the Jets under some horrendous coaching and bad teams around him.

Landed with the 49ers and got a year under Shanahan, playing behind Purdy.

And now it looks like it's going to be his show again as the QB1.

We'll see what happens.

Let's keep moving, Justin.

What else have we got out there?

What else is happening?

Mark Andrews was in a car accident.

That was apparently it's okay.

He's fine.

He's in the facility.

Team doctors looked at him.

It looks like he's going to be fine.

He also had a quote about

wear your seatbelt.

I agree.

Yes.

I tell my children the same.

I agree.

It's good to be here.

And sometimes I don't put mine on when I'm driving immediately, and then it starts dinging me and judging me.

And then my wife yells at me, and then I click.

So

that's a reminder that no one's perfect, not even the old Zeuser.

Next.

You should always

have seatbelt.

Yeah, not a serious thing, but yeah, car, car safety.

Cool.

Will Levis has teamed up with Hellman's Mayonnaise.

Now, a little backstory here before I give the whole news spiel.

Wait, you sent me one reason?

Wait a second.

You skipped Mark's favorite team signing their

big-time linebacker for a Titans player signing off.

Signing

a mayonnaise contract

for the Titans player.

Grave Degger.

Gravedigger, your first, your maiden voyage leading the news, and you skip a major building block of the Browns defense and a new contract for a PR stunt with your middling second-year quarterback.

Oh.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, the Browns and Jeremiah, Awusa, Koromora, J-O-K, have agreed to a three-year, $39 million extension with $25 million guaranteed.

So reading into that, sounds more like a two-year deal of guarantees with a three-year deal.

Jock is only 24 years old until November, and he's now the NFL's sixth highest paid linebacker in terms of average annual salary behind Patrick Queen, who signed with the Steelers this offseason.

And the Browns are now the team with the most players in the league who are making at least $10 million per year.

They have 13 of those players.

They had 12, and so do the Eagles.

This extension gives them 13.

So top heavy roster with obviously a quarterback with the most ridiculous contract in pro season.

Yeah, Sessdog, that quarterback better not suck again.

Uh, well, yeah, that is a that is a huge question mark.

And if you go on like uh over the cap and you start to drift into what next year's cap situation looks like for Cleveland and the year after, it is there's a traumatic element to that because they keep pushing some of this money down the road.

I love this signing, though.

This is Andrew Berry getting a young player early in terms of a second contract.

This is a modern-day off-ball linebacker who was all all over the field.

The speed that he brings is very unique.

I think general managers around the league consider him essentially a top-five off-ball linebacker.

It's a perfect fit for Jim Schwartz's defense.

He had 20 tackles for loss last year, and that does chart back to how quickly he gets to ball handlers all over the place.

This is an exciting, interesting player of modern-day football, and I love it for the Cleveland Browns.

A lot of teams passed him up because he had a heart condition in the draft.

He's not the size of some other linebackers, but he is a very special player.

Very good.

And yes, finally, in the news, you mentioned the

quarterback.

Jump the game.

That's okay.

And I understand your excitement.

And you do not believe him to be middling.

I'm sure you believe Will Levis could be a franchise quarterback for your Tennessee Titans.

So let's listen and watch the Hellman's Mayonnaise Cologne crossover that your quarterback's involved with.

Eggy.

Will Levis, number eight, parfum de mayonnaise.

You know, us whites don't need to be connected to mayonnaise any more than we already are.

Like, really the blandest of all the condiments.

Even though I'm not anti-mayo, but this is a real thing, right, Justin?

This is actually a limited edition item, and you crazy Tytoons fans are buying it off the rack.

Yeah, so Hellmans and Will Levis, they like Will Levis had an endorsement deal with Hellmans dating back to the draft last year when he was famously seen on a TikTok or Instagram reel putting mayonnaise in his coffee and drinking it.

And then everyone called him a weirdo, and then he came out and said, No, guys, I'm just having fun.

I don't actually drink my coffee.

But he did do that.

That was a real thing.

He did do it for the video.

Wild.

And this is a real product.

It costs $8.

Apparently, there's a whole write-up on the website about the fragrance fragrance notes, and it's like they're taking it very seriously in a joking parody kind of way.

It sold out as soon as they dropped this commercial with the link on Tuesday morning.

It sold out.

They responded to their own tweet, Hellman's did, saying, We hear you guys, we're going to have a restock at 10 a.m.

Eastern on Wednesday.

By 10:01 Eastern on Wednesday, the restock was also sold out.

So that's pretty much it.

Hard to hear the pride in Justin's voice talking about that.

Yes, yes.

And I understand it from the fan angle.

So, is there a report out there or any factual items on like I mean, I don't know I'm trying to recall what mayonnaise smells like it's rather scentless I feel like but what does what does the actual cologne what does it smell like Justin?

Do you know?

You probably have purchased this.

Tried to did you try to purchase or purchase?

I tried to purchase.

It was sold out.

Here are some of the fragrance notes listed on the website.

The fragrance opens with a bright, zesty burst of tart lemon that provides a refreshing and clean introduction.

At the heart of the fragrance lies a daring mayonnaise accord.

The creamy and slightly tangy note adds an unexpected twist, mirroring Will Levis' bold personality.

The mayonnaise accord provides a rich, smooth texture to the fragrance, making it intriguingly complex and memorable.

I can't.

And then it goes on and on.

Higher lower.

Coffee note.

Yeah, oh, go ahead.

You have more robust, slightly bitter edge filled with depth and warmth that adds a comforting, familiar touch.

It's like a Russian novel on the scent here, okay?

Yeah, higher lower, Justin, 24 and a half touchdown passes will Levis this season.

Realistically, I think higher.

And there are multiple reasons, but the chief among them is Brian Callahan's offense is going to be pass first, and there's no more Derrick Henry.

You get in the red zone with Derrick Henry, it's like just give him the ball.

He's going to steamroll in.

You don't have that anymore.

They got all these weapons on the outside.

DeAndre Hopkins should be back by week one.

I think it's going to be

28 to 30.

And notable that the depth chart behind the second-year passer is Mason Rudolph and Malik Willis.

So there should be a clear path to a real look at Will Levis in year two.

8 o'clock delight.

Hollywood Brown update.

He's expected to miss four to six weeks with that sternoclavicular injury suffered.

Opening night is three weeks from this Thursday night.

That's from Jordan Schultz.

Jameer Gibbs suffered a hamstring injury, but Dan Campbell is not too worried about his running back.

Tackle Jawan Taylor carted at Kansas City practice.

Adam Schaefer reports Chiefs not overly concerned.

Commander signed Martavis Bryan.

Speaking of Steelers wide receivers of yesteryear.

The Raiders signed quarterback Nathan Peterman.

Hey, Nathan Peterman.

He's still in the mix.

And Wave

Keelan Doss on the injured designation.

Benny DeLucci signed by the Buffalo Bills.

Colts signed wide receiver Greg Ward.

Shane Steichen coached him in Philadelphia.

The Dolphins cut defensive tackle Tyre Tart.

He is visiting with the Chargers today, I believe.

The Giants running back Tyrone Tracy was carted off practice field in an air cast.

Usually curtains for a guy's season, but the rookie running back just has a low ankle sprain.

Good news there.

Cornerback Dane Jackson carted off the practice field Wednesday at Panthers practice.

He just signed a two-year deal worth eight and a half million.

So keep an eye on that.

Raiders wide receiver Devontae Adams.

I've seen a lot of goo from these quarterbacks.

Sorry, good from these quarterbacks.

Okay, that's not a news item.

Bills wide receiver Chase Claypool lands on IR season over.

Man, speaking of Steelers, wide receivers of recent yesteryear.

Finally, wide receiver Tayvon Austin has retired.

One of the most hyped wide receiver prospects of the decade, I remember, Mark, when we were covering the draft, did not work out.

He went eighth overall to the Rams and bounced around.

You know,

that was for you, Mark.

Yeah, no, Tavon closed out.

I'll never forget that offseason because Wes and I watched a lot of tape and talked about players.

Tavon Austin out of West Virginia had one of the most intriguing collection of college plays I'd ever seen.

And he went, I think, number eight.

And in that same draft, that was the, you know, the Luke Jokul draft.

And our coworker, Justin Hugh, went to the Giants.

Eric Fisher.

Eric Fisher.

But DeAndre Hopkins went 27th to Houston.

And if you look back, you know, it's tough to look back on those drafts, but Tayvon Austin just never really...

cracked free.

He just never really was able to do what you wanted.

And it's one of the bigger whiffs.

The only thing I'd say is Martavis Bryant last played six years ago.

I mean,

has it been that long?

Oh, my God.

I believe so.

And, like, I mean, Dan Quinn, Dan Quinn's been in touch with him, and I it sounded like he had him on his radar for a while because he's 6'4, and that's two inches taller than any other why-don't they have on the roster?

So, we'll see.

I know a lot of guys that are 6'4.

You know, don't get another chance.

I know some.

There are women that are 6'4, by the way.

Have you ever seen that?

It's true.

Yeah.

I really, really, I fell for, like everyone everyone else, fell for Tayvon Austin during that draft cycle.

Yeah.

And he went off the board one pick before the Jets, who needed a wide receiver at that time.

But we dodged that bullet.

And instead, we took Dee Milner to replace Darrell Reeves.

So

we have not been to the playoffs in 13 years.

All right, let's take a break.

And when we return, the great James Palmer makes his Heed the Call debut.

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Welcome back.

Our next guest is one of the great reporters in our fine country,

Denver-based, plugged in on the Broncos, but really all 32, and a former colleague that we just love to death.

Welcome, James Palmer, to Heed the Call.

This just feels right, right, guys.

This just feels right.

It feels so right.

Feels so good.

I get that band back together.

Can I ask?

You know, I'm a little upset because, like, I used to get so excited when I would come on the show, like, when I would get the call,

and now I'm heating the call, but I would get the call and it'd be like, we want to have you on the show.

And I was like, why don't I come on more frequently?

Who decided my frequency

on your

previous show?

Because I think our, I think, our general consensus point that Mark and I have decided is the other guy.

Just blame everything on other people that you're not going to be able to do.

You're not with us now.

This is what matters.

I will stay out of the gate.

I'm slightly disturbed because I am dealing with two people, two individuals,

two male figures, one and Dan, who classically,

if he's not going to tell you who has great hair, you're going to notice it yourself.

And James, you look like, I mean, have you ever seen like Birdman where

he takes the wig off and then another wig off?

Like, that's my hair.

And you guys have these incredible

manned coifs.

Like, what's happening here?

What do I have to do to maybe I just need to refashion myself?

Nice way to change a subject there, Mark.

I do dig it, Mark.

I do dig it, Captain Detour there.

Mine is thanks to Kirk Lavallee, my barber here.

You walk in there, it's like 1950.

He's got an old record player playing mostly Hank Williams,

just tatted up like crazy.

He does a tremendous job.

I feel like Dan's is a bit more la naturale, personally.

I think mine takes more styling and maintenance to where Dan's natural flow I think is a little bit better.

So maybe Mark achieving kind of what I have is more sustainable or achievable than Dan's because I think Dan's is very natural.

Dennis has a lot of data.

I have a tremendous level of volume and wave to it, and I'm thankful to my father and the generations before.

But yeah, without my work, Redkin work hard molding paste,

it really is important in terms of the control because I lose it very easily.

And by the way, Redkin, shout out.

If you want to come reach out to us, be a presenting sponsor of Heed the Call, send me free stuff.

You have before.

Let's get this collaboration going.

I mean, if

damn Will Levis can get a collab going with Mayonnaise Hellman's brand, I can get something with Redkin.

I actually believe in this product.

He doesn't believe in Maykin?

We're off track.

What's that?

You don't think he believes in mayonnaise?

No, he does.

We know he does.

He drinks his coffee with mayonnaise.

James,

this does feel right.

We've got to make this a regular thing.

I think we do.

Yeah.

I'm just going to blame your lack of appearances relative to how you felt in terms of what the frequency should have been on shadowy league figures over there.

And now

we have no such shackles.

And that's part of the greatness of the Heed the Call underdog collab.

Let's start with some

rookie quarterback talk.

Okay.

Because then we do want to talk about the Broncos because I'm fascinated by the Broncos.

But who was the rookie QB that impressed you the most, both in the preseason action, which obviously is only one piece of this, but in general, what you're hearing, what you've seen this summer?

Well, they're kind of two different things, Dan, honestly, because Jaden Daniels pops a lot to me, specifically from what I'm told, guys on the defensive side of the ball, coaches, players have seen throughout camp.

Now, he only played a handful of snaps in preseason in the first game.

So I wouldn't say, like, you know, he wowed us.

He did have that throw, you know, a big throw.

We saw his athleticism and things like that.

But, like, he didn't play a boatload.

So the preseason game, kind of aside, compared to what some of the other rookies did in the preseason game.

But Jayden Daniels, to me, pops quite a bit.

And I think it's the mental acumen to me that stands out to those guys that have played against him in practice.

It's checks that have happened, I'm told.

Like they've tried to mix things up on him.

Let's just throw this out there and see what happens.

He recognizes it pretty quickly, checks to a run, and bang, there go.

They go they go down the field 15 yards, and the defensive coaches are kind of scratching their heads a little bit.

Like, how did he see that?

You know, so that that jumps out immediately.

We know the athleticism that Caleb Williams has and the way that he can play and the arm talent and the cast around him.

I mean, that's just one that we're excited to see.

I think he's going to do what we saw him do at USC, which is a lot of the off-schedule stuff.

He's going to thrive at.

And things are messy in the NFL regularly in the pocket and the way plays go.

I'm curious to see how that first part of it goes when the play is on time and it's on structure and how things go there.

We know he's all the other talent in the world.

But I think Jaden is kind of the one that to me has been the one to pop the most from asking around.

I thought Jaden Daniels, that 42-yard pass to Diamond Brown, just like, wait a minute, wow.

I mean, I think these college quarterbacks, this class especially, just, and it is a small sample size from, you know, a single preseason game, but they just seem more prepared to start right away and process the pro game than like quarterbacks from 10 years ago.

The question mark that I have about Washington is, you know, Cliff Kingsbury's last appearance in the NFL was a bit of a flatline affair down the end.

And it's like that pairing of Cliff Kingsbury and Jaden Daniels, I think it could potentially be much better as an OC.

But if you're a defensive coordinator in the NFC East and you're watching what we've seen from him in a small one-game sample, it's like this guy is going to be a headache.

And I kind of think it changes everything that you think think about the Commanders.

Do you have any thought on his build, on his size?

That was going to be what I was going to follow up with there, because I don't want to be too negative because

we were just talking about on Monday show, Chicago, that city, those fans deserve a franchise quarterback, and Washington fans deserve the same.

But he looked even, he didn't, you know, his size has been a question.

He looked to me even smaller than he looked at the Combine.

And I'm wondering not to go down Bryce Young Boulevard again, but just like, this is the NFL.

This is these guys that are coming up to hurt this man.

And like, I'm worried about that, his ability to stay on the field.

Yeah, I had that conversation with his quarterback coach, or you could almost say everybody's quarterback coach.

It seems like John Beck, he works with everyone in the offseason.

I think in this group coming out, he was with

JJ,

Jaden Daniels, and Penix, I want to say,

out of this group coming out.

And I talked to him about the size.

And he said, obviously, what a lot of people say that are in his court are, well, he's going to get older and he's just going to naturally get a little bit bigger as he gets older and his body just matures but there was a an interesting take from from John guys that was like I don't think you want him to get that much bigger And I was like, no, really?

He's like, I want him to be him.

Like, I don't want him to change dramatically.

It's just going to be like we've seen with some other guys finding that fine line to where he can get a little bit bigger and he doesn't lose some of the other things that make him so unique and so explosive.

It's been interesting because this just popped in my head.

We've seen Lamar Jackson kind of fluctuate with the weight, haven't we?

I mean, Lamar's a big dude.

If you ever stand next to him on a sideline, you're like, Lamar Jackson's a pretty big guy.

But he's

commented on it a couple weeks ago that he got too big.

Yeah, exactly.

So like he's kind of like wanted to be like, well, do I bulk up?

Do I, do I kind of, I don't want to lose athleticism.

That might be something that we see with Jaden Daniels, honestly, like that they're just kind of, I don't want to say toying with, but finding the right spot.

But Beck wasn't really all that, you know, when I spoke to him, all that concerned about the size, well, until you start getting hit.

But like, we've seen smaller quarterbacks actually thrive.

There were concerns about Kyler Murray.

I mean, there were concerns about some other guys size-wise.

We'll see how he handles it.

But that might be something that just happens a little bit over time, and the commanders are comfortable with it.

One quarterback that we didn't see much of in the preseason week one was Drake May from the Patriots.

And

he had just three pass attempts.

He played six snaps to the point where it was a bit of a Twitter joke

that Joe Milton was the guy to pay attention to coming out of New England because he played so much in that game.

But A, do you take anything out of the lack of snaps in that game or do you disagree with that?

And generally, what are you hearing about May, who obviously the Patriots have a lot invested in after Mac Jones didn't work out in the post-Brady era?

Yeah, this just seems, Dan, like more of a long play, doesn't it, than some of the other ones.

I mean, you look at where the roster is, you look at the player that came out.

I mean, when I talked to all these evaluators, there's probably a half dozen or a little more than that at the quarterback position I really trust and have trusted over the years.

And he was almost unanimously the one that was like, he's got to sit the first year.

Like that, that he has to sit.

And that was kind of the consensus through a lot of the top evaluators are there.

It's definitely there.

The physical presence is there.

The size, the arm strength, you know, those things.

There's obviously the comparisons to Josh Allen.

I hate when anybody compares anybody to Josh Allen because I consider him like the outlier of all outliers in terms of what's happened with him and his career and where it's gone.

The other thing that's hurting him when I talk to people in New England is like, when you have a former defensive lineman snapping you the football with the second team offense,

a little tough, a little tough on a rookie when the ball is kind of going different places for you at times.

I do think really what was around him second team wise might have impacted him a little bit thus far in the game as well.

But I would like to see more reps because this is when he's going to get them if the plan is to sit him.

He's probably

in a spot where we all know Jacoby Rissette's going to start.

But they have seen...

progress through camp, which is really what we're all looking for is just

do they stack days?

Do they get better day by day and stack days?

He's done that to an extent.

But there was a lot of things, footwork, things in the pocket, eyes, a lot of stuff mechanically that they knew they needed to make sure were fixed.

So they knew this was going to be time, but the talent's there.

So I'd I'd like to see him more in the preseason when your plan is essentially maybe not to play him during the season.

There's something refreshing about

someone who remembers how it used to go with first-round pick quarterbacks, like toiling behind a second team and a center who doesn't know how to play the position and just maybe getting your ass kicked a little bit and maybe not playing right away and essentially having to work your way up to the job where obviously, like as Mark alluded to, these guys kind of are coming more ready-made or whether they're ready or not, they're being thrust into it.

It makes him a little bit of an outlier

in some ways, but maybe it will be the best for him.

But what I'm curious about, and I want your guys' opinion on this, is when it's mid-November and Roberkraft's looking around the stands at Foxborough and he's like,

I might have to play the kid.

Have you ever been to Foxborough?

It's not easy to get to.

I've spent a lot of time there.

More than probably anybody else would want to spend time there.

Specifically, the Flay Cake every single day staying at that hotel.

I love Toby Keith's Bar and Grill or Toby Keith.

I love this Bar and Grill way too many times because my options are limited at Patriot Place.

But seriously, like, what if Robert Kraft is looking around and they're three-fourths full or half full?

Ownership can push to play the rookie.

And that's why we're always in this interesting spot with these guys that don't start the beginning of the regular season.

They had some type of like pavilion there

in Foxborough.

I remember I went to school in Boston and I went to see

Pete Yorn open for REM.

I love Pete Yorn.

Yeah, we're big Pete Yorn fans around.

He's a big Raiders fan, by the way.

I want to get him on Heath the Call.

And

we're leaving from Boston.

I'm like, oh, we're going to go see a show at Foxborough, which is where the Patriots play.

And we're driving and we're driving and we're driving.

And it's like,

can we get Foxborough closer to Boston?

Is that something we could do?

Probably not, but maybe.

Dan,

you did probably drive over the, you did drive over the two ball boys, I'm sure, on your way there.

This is pre-buried.

Oh, is it pre-that?

Oh, that under the mass pike.

Yeah, go ahead, Mark.

Well, no, I just, I,

we play this game every year, and it's, it's, I laugh at the notion that you keep a juicy quarterback on the bench until the month of November.

Um, that just, I think patience doesn't exist in the league at this point, and I think you're right, you're dead on about the crafts who've been through a lot in the last couple of years and want to bring a fresh product.

It's like, I tend to think that it's not, it's not, it's the opposite of, say, like what J.J.

McCarthy would have experienced in Minnesota, where I don't like their wide receiver group.

Their offensive line is shaky.

It's not a good situation to put a rookie out there early on.

But

I tend to think these guys will be in there by week four, week three, or four.

If they're getting, it's just like these reps matter, and I think you can't just have them get out of this rookie year with no experience.

It's too important.

Yeah, it's interesting.

I remember having that.

I love that you brought up patience because I had that conversation a couple years back with Brandon Bean.

And he was like, you know what was the biggest thing in Josh Allen's growth and how he got here is we had patience,

coach had patience, but more importantly, our ownership had patience.

He was like, that was the biggest thing in Josh's growth.

Remember, he wasn't supposed to play right away.

He ended up starting to play that rookie year because of injury.

Like, that was the biggest thing that he said stood out to him is that ownership had patience in his development.

And they were going to take time to let this thing grow and develop.

That's not the case everywhere.

You're exactly right.

And that's why I think these guys play early.

There's two schools of thought, obviously, of sitting them.

And like, go talk to Matt LaFleur about sitting quarterbacks.

I mean, Gary Kubiak.

I mean, those guys will die saying you've got to sit guys their first year.

And the other argument, like Brian Callahan's big into the world of you play him right away.

You want the guy to know he's the guy and let him get those reps and make those mistakes.

I do think my solution to this is the Bo Nicks solution.

It's the guys that you mentioned in in this class.

Play longer in college, make some money in college, and spend more time with more starts and come in a little bit more prepared.

Because then you can take advantage of the rookie contract, which is the other argument that people aren't patient for: well, we drafted this rookie.

We want to take advantage of the contract.

Why are we going to sit him?

Now you can take advantage of the rookie contract and you can take advantage of, hopefully, they're coming in more prepared if these guys spend more time in college.

We'll get to Bo Nick's 61 college starts.

Like,

he's coming in.

Let's talk about him.

Yeah.

Yeah, let's talk talk about Nick's because,

you know, he is a fascinating dude.

Like, he it's fascinating

from an overall perspective with the Broncos because you knew that, you know, arranged marriage between Sean Payton and Russell Wilson was probably not going to last, and it didn't.

But then they won a few too many games than they should have.

They were probably like, in reality, probably a 6-11 team.

They ended up winning eight games last year, so they don't get the draft pick that they needed or the lottery-type quarterback quarterback pick.

So, some people could see Nick's as maybe a bit of a reach where the Broncos got him, or they're wish-casting that he's going to be something that maybe he's not.

However,

you know, he's a quarterback, and you saw it in the preseason opener.

That was getting the ball out of his hands quickly.

Everybody knows that's what Sean Payton wants from his quarterback.

You saw it with Drew Brees all those years.

Do you think, A, that Nick's is a guy that can be banked on as a real prospect with star potential?

Or is this something where Payton's going to really have to hope and wish he develops in a way that maybe isn't realistic from the outside based on his tape in college?

Well, I think the first thing is Peyton has put everything on himself now.

I mean, we all kind of knew he had almost absolute power in that building.

Ownership has given him a boatload of, say, in the organization, but now he's kind of put the bullseye on his own back going, like, he drafted a guy that I don't think any other team I talked to would have picked in the first round.

Like, no other team would have picked Bo Nix in the first round.

But

if you succeed, it doesn't matter where you were picked.

Nobody's going to go back and go, man, did they reach if he's out there playing?

So I think with rookie quarterbacks, the number one thing is fit.

Like it really is.

Like when I talk to all these teams, they always go like, well, yeah, I think he's pretty talented, but does he have the Andy Reid?

Like Patrick Mahomes fell into a perfect situation with sitting behind Alex Smith, who was selfless enough to teach him a boatload, and he lands with an offensive wizard and Andy Reid.

Bo Nix, I think if you look at the fit from quarterbacks landing in their spot, it almost checks every single box.

Like his strengths are Sean's strengths.

The quick passing game, ball out of his hands, being extremely accurate.

What Sean values maybe more than maybe other people value is accuracy in the short passing game.

Like there's a difference in accuracy there to accuracy on your deep ball because accuracy there needs to be pinpoint perfect, right?

There's a smaller...

margin for error in the short passing game with your accuracy than there is in the deep game.

I mean, those first couple years with Mahomes, it was like, I see a giant patch of green.

I'll throw it over over there and Tyreek Hill will go find it.

In the short passing game, it's a little bit different.

And that's what Bonix thrives in.

That's what Sean loves.

I think he's going to run the offense exactly.

the way Sean wants it to be run.

The exact opposite way of what the arranged marriage, as you called it, was being run the previous season.

He doesn't take sacks, which it's kind of funny because there's this like, I've been at Broncos camp, guys, these little Russell Wilson digs that Sean Payton does like on a regular basis where he'll just go like, you know, like the vast majority of sacks fall on the quarterback.

And like they were like the fourth most sacks or fifth most sacks in the league last year.

Like he really will just jab those in there every so often.

And so his strengths do fit Sean's.

And so was it a reach?

Yeah, but you reached for somebody that does play the game that he wants it to be played.

And I don't think in that first preseason game, and we talked about this with the experience, like it wasn't too big for him at all, right?

When you guys watched the game, you were like, his head is not spinning out there right now taking these snaps.

No, I'm with you.

I thought also he's got

noticeable mobility.

And, you know, if you think about Sean Payton, right, and Sean Payton was, of course, a

pupil of Bill Parcells.

And you don't have Tony Lomo going to the Dallas Cowboys if it wasn't Sean Payton saying, you know, this is the guy I want you to get.

And, of course, Parcells has that list of what you want when you draft a quarterback, right?

And it's very simple.

It's a three-year starter Check for Nick's.

Be a senior and graduate from college.

He had a 3.62 GPA from Auburn, then did post-graduate work at Oregon.

Start 30 games, win at least 23.

Check.

He had

3,724 college plays.

That is about as much experience as a quarterback ever.

Two to one touchdown ratio.

Last year he had 45 touchdowns, three picks, 60% completion percentage, 77.4.

So I think everything that Sean Payton has been taught to look for in a quarterback and what he thinks on his own about it,

Bo Nix is not someone that you would have maybe projected as a first rounder for these other teams, but it's someone that Payton can work with.

And I kind of think that the marriage really promotes the chance of Nick's succeeding earlier than he would have maybe somewhere else.

Yeah.

I go back and everything you listed,

I don't know how you got his transcripts, Mark, but like everything you listed on there for what Bo Nix has,

I go back to last year being in Texans camp and talking to Namico Ryans and Bobby Sloick and having the conversation of, you know, we want, A, like, we want CJ to just own this job.

We want him to just take it over as teammates were kind of pushing him to do that.

And two, the one thing we want to make sure is

like crystal clear to us before we start him is, will...

A bad play turn into two bad plays?

Will a bad drive turn into two bad drives?

Will a bad half turn into obviously a bad game?

How does failure impact him, right?

Because he hadn't had, they're joking, they're like, he hasn't had it really in college, individually or as a team.

How does failure at the NFL level, because it will happen, it most certainly will, how does it not affect him mentally?

Because that's right, the number one thing we're talking about with these guys in their rookie year is not that they physically can't go play the position.

All of them can physically go out there with the arm talent and the athleticism and the size usually.

Like they all can do it.

Mentally, are you going to get wrecked your rookie year?

There's another guy in Broncos camp right now, which everybody's curious about, and Zach Wilson.

Like, can he come back from what he's been through in the early portion of his career?

That was the major thing that the Texans wanted to make sure was C.J.

Stroud.

I look at Bo Nix and go, this kid's played 61 games.

He left Auburn.

He's had a lot of adversity, actually, in his college career.

I'm curious if that prepares him.

for struggles in his rookie season.

Because a lot of these guys that are first-round picks, they've been forever.

He's been through some, I don't think I can curse on here, right?

He's been through some stuff.

Go ahead, let it rip, Jason.

Okay, you can.

He's been through some stuff.

I mean, if I was on more frequently before, I would have known, but he's been through some stuff.

And so I'm curious if that prepares him, honestly, to be ready week one from the mental point of it, which so many people love to evaluate to make sure that box is checked before they put a rookie quarterback out there.

I'm just kind of fascinated by the Broncos in general.

They haven't been back to to the playoffs since Super Bowl 50.

It's seven straight losing seasons.

And

maybe it's because I'm just like an old Parcells stan at heart, because I think of Poppy, my grandfather, sitting in the big brown chair when I got home from church on Sundays and went to my grandparents' house.

And he's drinking his root beer and he's watching the G-Men

and

those great, great Parcells teams.

And then he went to my team.

I just love Parcells.

And I know that Peyton, so much of his personality seems gleaned from Parcells.

So Peyton fascinates me, his resume, his highlights, his lowlights, his ego, which is bottomless, you know,

and an overall attitude that almost seems to dare people to disagree with him or for you to tell him that he doesn't know what he's doing.

So this setup in Denver where it's like he's kind of pulling it down to the studs a little bit, but now he has with a first-round pick quarterback that does put him on a clock, maybe.

Do you sense that in Denver?

What is the level of of power with Sean Payton?

And what is your general vibe on

where he's at at this stage of his career and his life?

He's not a young guy anymore.

No, he's not, but his shoe game's through the roof.

I mean, he's the only coach with a deal with Jordan.

So like every day I'm out there looking at these kicks that he's out there just fully.

Yeah, but can I say, and we could say this now, we couldn't say it before, James, like Robert Kraft and the Patriots.

That always weirded me out when I would like go to league events and Robert Kraft's wearing $700 Nikes.

It's like sick at the same time.

Can we calm down with the old men wearing young men's shoes?

That's true.

That's not that cool.

That's a good.

Wow.

You want me to calm down?

Okay.

I can't.

Robert Kraft's always, I was in there once.

There's just like Air Force Ones just like lined up behind his desk, like just picking a different pair, I guess, at all times.

It's like, cool, Dad.

Yeah.

Well, hang on.

But listen, if you're going to get them for free, I would choose Jordan over

other brands, right?

Like, if you've got a deal with somebody.

I kind of want to have this conversation because

I feel like everything you described, Dan, is spot on.

and is that dying in the NFL that I think model of head coach I think it is I think that model is going away we have two other guys uh one of them also is a big parcels guy uh and another one who are real hard asses and they work their team and they don't have jobs this year that's Bill Belichick and Mike Vrabel like the fact that Mike Vrabel doesn't have a job is crazy

it seems like we're shifting away a little bit from that type of coach

with some of the hires that are happening.

And I'm curious if this is just to to cycle or this is something that we're going to just the new way the NFL is done.

Like, Sean is running an old school camp.

They use every single minute the CBA allows them to run.

They run gassers at the end of practice, which I don't see in a whole lot of camps.

I mean, literally, the gassers.

Cross the field.

Let's go.

That doesn't happen in a lot of the Oklahoma drills.

Well, I said within the rules of the CBA.

But yeah, exactly.

But like, his style is extremely competitive.

They have a lot of young, hungry guys that are going to do what Sean wants them to do.

They don't really have any names on this team.

Like I was trying to go around the league and go like, how many teams have like one blue chip player?

Because I think that's what the Broncos have.

Like they have Patrick Sertan.

That is probably one blue chip player on the entire team.

They have some good players.

But they have what...

Even the Raiders shouldn't win a boatload of games this year, and they probably have four or five.

Like,

you get what I'm saying?

Like, it's an interesting roster.

Even Sartan, they got to get him under a long-term contract.

Like,

what is the future of this team?

Like, Judy's out the door.

Sutton is, all these other guys that are supposed to be impact guys are kind of, they've lingered for a couple of years now.

Like, they're kind of a team that, I mean, could this team lose 13 games?

Could they win nine or ten?

I think that's where Sean comes in.

I think they're like numbers about five.

I think they're going to be in every game because he, if you want to break down the film of last year, guys were open.

They just weren't getting the football.

He can scheme players open for sure.

He's good at that.

I think they'll be in games.

They just need to score in the red zone and try to get any sort of pass rush, which they're going to have to bring extra guys to do that.

The division and the AFC, both of those don't help them a whole boatload.

But he's banking on, and this is like wild, he's kind of hasn't been shy about saying this draft class that he has this year could compare to his 17 draft class in New Orleans.

And just remember some of the names that came out of that draft class.

Yeah.

Like, I think there's like Kamara and Ramchek and Trey Hendrickman and Lattimore.

And like, it's one of the best draft classes maybe.

And reset that entire franchise after, I think it was triple eight and eights or something or seven and nine.

Yeah, it did.

So that's what he's banking on.

We'll see.

And James, when you say this is almost like, it's almost like year one for Peyton because I think last year, you know, the whole Russell, getting saddled with Russell Wilson, and that felt like a divorce from the very start.

But do you view Peyton at this point?

Because you're right, he's an old school coach, he's older now.

Is this a guy that's thinking like, I want to be here five, six, seven, eight years from now?

Or is this like, if this doesn't, if this is an ugly one or two year process from here on out, does this guy jump?

Or will he be pushed?

Yeah, does he have any.

I would say this.

This was an interesting conversation.

Like, I've had this with some people around the league where they're like,

you're paying, you know, Greg and Carrie Penner, the ownership, you're paying him like 20 million a year you would almost think that that's worth if you're going to go as ownership and say well is bonex ready yet well he's still going to come along well

aren't we paying you 20 million dollars like he should come along faster here than he should somewhere else don't you think like we have that in our coaching staff in our head coach so i do think there's like i started this there's pressure on him for sure um but i don't know if he jumps mark because like the ego that that that dan hinted at that i think he said bottomless

like mimosas, which is interesting, but like

he hates losing so much and put so much on this of himself, I feel like he's going to will it to work whether it takes any amount of time.

Because I don't see him just like walking away and being like,

I guess it didn't work.

Because then what is...

Honestly, like not my person, I think he's a great coach, specifically on the field as a teacher, but what would be his perception if this didn't work?

Like you had success with one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time for the vast majority of your career, almost all of it.

And then

wrapped up in a bow and handed to him.

He didn't develop Drew Brees.

Exactly.

So, like,

what would be the perception of Sean Payton if this doesn't work to some extent?

I think he knows that.

And I think that's why he's put a lot of these expectations on himself because he does like high expectations.

I know that my perception of Sean Payton changed when I was early in my career in NFL.com on a quiet Saturday in the offseason.

And something that we reported got out there about Sean Payton, and it was written by an editor that was a number of years older than me, and there was only a couple of people there.

And Sean Payton himself called this editor up and chewed him out on the phone.

I was like,

to talk about some of today's coaches, I don't know if Kevin O'Connell is calling someone up at nfl.com and chewing them out.

I just don't know.

I'm not sure.

I think I remember.

Did you see those sunglasses that he wears regularly during campaign?

Doing that.

like yeah I think I remember either I was on that shift that morning or maybe it was a day later and that editor that I think we're thinking of the same incident yeah you know called me and is like yeah I don't know I don't know if I'm gonna get fired for this

but his mind it's like a beautiful mind if you've ever sat and talked ball with him for like a lengthy period of time it's it's like Russell Crowe in a beautiful mind like it is all over and and you're like where is he going with this and then like 15 minutes later, he'll circle it back to like the initial start.

And you're like, oh,

okay,

I get it now.

Like, it is a wild way of thinking.

His mind is unbelievable.

We'll see if this happens because I do think with what we're talking about, like, do players still respond to this type of coaching as a whole?

And if you're not winning, do they?

And that's what Peyton loves.

A prominent media member saying that he has a Russell Crowe and beautiful mind type brain that just

many cannot even understand.

He's been working the media for years.

Not that he could ever work James Palmer.

Grape Durger, did I hear a chime in?

Yeah, I got a question for you, James.

Do you think there's any element to Sean Payton here and the way he might be covered going forward where it's like, was it Sean Payton or Drew Brees?

Similar to the Belichick Tom Brady?

Like, does he need to be successful?

this season or next season before we start having that conversation like a hall of famer type conversation yeah yeah i think so i think amongst colleagues they understand his acumen i definitely think defensive coaches that are sitting there scheming for what he does offensively they're going like oh my god like guys even that are not super talented are running wide open like i think you know what i mean like in the closed doors sense like the respect is there in the in the joe fan sitting at the bar like you're right i do think that perception changes dramatically like i i i mean this conversation is had right where it's like that division was not not great.

They played indoors, and they had one of the eight best quarterbacks ever, and they won a Super Bowl.

Like, there's a thought that you could have been like, you guys should have maybe won more than one.

Like, I know winning, it's hard, especially with some of the guys that were in the league playing that same position at the same time.

But, like,

it was all kind of.

put in a really good favor for those guys down in New Orleans for a number of years.

And so I think those questions would come up if it isn't successful here in Denver.

And that's why it's been a fascinating thing to watch because this is a,

what are there, five historic franchises, really, like marquee franchises in the league.

I would say Denver's probably one of them.

I mean, up until a few years ago, they had what I thought was maybe one of the coolest things in all of sports.

They had been to more Super Bowls than they had losing seasons as a franchise.

That's an unbelievable stat to say.

This little stretch they're on here has ruined that.

But that shows you kind of how really marquee this franchise has been.

If he brings it back,

it's something.

But I think all eyes are on Sean Payton for sure.

If you came of age watching football in the mid to late 80s, it's kind of destabilizing to see what the Broncos have become in the past decade.

And we'll see if Payton can steer him out of it.

Listen, James Palmer, listen.

We loved having you on the show.

Can we do it more?

Can we make up for

what they did, not us?

They did.

I can text both of you guys on my cellular device and ask you, can I come on every week?

And I'm going to bug you.

I'm going to bug you.

What do you think, Mark?

Because I think it's a good idea.

You know, I think that.

Or do you feel the same way you felt when we were at the end of the day?

No, no, no.

I was always a proponent of bringing James on, and I just continue.

I like the idea of just blaming the last situation, not this one.

This is a whole different situation.

And James, door wide open.

I love him.

All right.

I'd like your arms wide open personally, but that's fine.

I'll settle for a door.

James Palmer, thank you very much, buddy.

Where can people

check you out?

I got something to promote.

I got something to promote.

What you got?

Dig this.

We're doing, for the second preseason game for the Denver Broncos against the Green Bay Packers, we are doing an alt cast, like a Manning cast, if you will.

It will be me, Chris Harris, all-pro, and Akeep Talib, all-pro.

Three of us

talking ball over the entire second preseason game between the Broncos and the Packers.

How about that?

That's

the last.

I know you have a working relationship, I believe, with Steve Smith.

So, Smith and Akeeb Talib?

Listen, actually, if you ask off-camera, there's no bad blood.

Like, pass the ice up, son.

Actually, he's one of the few guys I think.

Speaking of Steve, that's one of the few guys I think with Talib he actually respects quite a bit on the defensive side of the ball.

I don't want to speak for Steve.

I'll ask him because him and I are good buddies and we like to work together quite a bit.

But I believe Tlaib is one of the guys that actually, there is no bad blood between Steve and Akib.

But I'll ask him.

Maybe I'll throw, I'll bring it up on Sunday night.

Good to know.

And I just get the feeling that we're going to see a lot of each other, James Palmer.

Thank you.

Thank you, buddy.

You can't see it because this camera's not that great.

But those are goosebumps.

There he goes.

The great James Palmer.

Thank you, James.

See you guys.

All right.

Well, I think we're close to wrapping up episode two of Heed the Call.

It's a banger.

I'm enjoying it.

Everybody having fun?

You guys enjoying doing the show so far?

I feel like it's like the show.

I am the show.

I'm experiencing enjoyment.

I'm annoyed now.

Oh, that was not simple.

That sounded similar, but different.

Speaking of which, yeah,

one of the last frequently asked questions or facts and questions, Justin, was what?

Was,

do you guys get to keep the drops?

There's a lot of things we don't get to keep when

you connect the dots on our former show and our new show.

And yes, certain things we have access to and certain things we do not.

So that's why we're going with a

trial balloon, a little Taylor's version of some of the all-time

mark intonations.

Let's hear some of them.

Well, that's your opinion.

That was a good one.

See,

I'm hearing these for the first time, and I know exactly how the originals sound.

Just like Taylor Swift, I imagine, just with a fine-tooth audio comb, wanted to make sure everything was just right for her post-scooter brawn reissues.

I think it's a bit of a referendum on my skills as a thespian because I'm literally mimicking myself

in recorded form.

So we'll see how I do.

And so if the shield is our scooter brawn, let's hear some more reissues, Taylor's versions.

Good for you!

Did I do that okay?

You got to really get into the character, which is me.

Yeah, can I hear it again?

Good for you!

That's missing maybe some of the

performance was, it came from such a natural place, the original one, that that one felt a little more like an art piece, but still gets across the point.

You know what I mean?

I had a similar note to Justin.

So it's almost impossible to, yeah.

Right.

That was, that came from a moment of

genuine ire.

And, like, you know, I just did this an hour and a half ago and was feeling good.

So, yeah.

It's missing, yeah, that rage that made it.

Yes.

But it's almost like, how do you get back to that place?

And do we even want to get you back to that place?

Probably not.

What else do we got?

But yeah,

there's also an element here where it's like some of this stuff could get better than it was before.

Like some of these drops, you guys were talking at the same time when I originally pulled them.

but now it's a totally clean, just mark.

Let's hear some more.

Football is completely different.

As I talk over it, that's funny.

Okay, go ahead.

There's no like just saying in the back.

Like, Dan, you were talking in that drop, the original drops, and now it's gone.

Yeah.

You can die, by the way.

Just did that an hour and a half ago.

What else?

That sounded real.

What a manufactured joke.

That's very good.

That's spot on.

Let's see more.

Well, Marvin Lewis is an idiot.

See, I feel like, yeah, the ones that were just more natural in conversation, you can tell no difference.

It's like the YouTubers that do like breakdowns, Zapruder breakdowns of the Taylor versions with the original versions.

The heroes' versions are very spotted, unless it's coming from that high-intensity emotional place.

And then

you could tell the difference on that one.

Any other ones?

Did I play this already?

I don't know.

I'm with myself, myself, also.

This is fun.

And so stupid.

Good.

So we have some of those banked.

And in general, yeah, when you hear things that are familiar to the old show, it's because we're allowed to play them.

And when you don't hear things anymore, we could literally have our fingers sliced off for

playing them.

So read into it however you want.

All right, that is it for episode two of Heed the Call.

We will be back.

The show will drop late Thursday, early Friday, with with

some new colleagues of ours, the great Josh Norris and Hayden Winks, who just kill it on the fantasy side of things for Underdog.

It's going to act as almost a mini fantasy extravaganza for Heed the Call.

So make sure you're there for that, our next episode.

Until then, you know what you must do.

Heed the Call.

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