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The Heed the Call Podcast

has finally arrived.

Indeed,

the time is now.

Heed the Call.

Dan Hansis with Mark Sessler.

Our journey, a new journey, after years together.

Doing a different thing.

We're doing a new thing.

And if you heard it it right there.

Underdog, our new partner with us, is taking the show in a fresh new direction.

And Mark Sessler, I mean, to be on the journey with you, my friend, I love it.

Yeah, it has been a summer to remember in various ways.

And it is incredible, and we'll get into it, but the process to end up with Underdog at the end.

And we both feel so good about the enthusiasm and the love that they showed us right out of the gate.

And it's just like this match that we've been waiting for.

Dan, it's been an unpredictable couple of months.

I feel really lucky to be here with you today.

Yeah, it's been a wild summer.

And Tim and Katie and the whole team at Underdog have really helped us

to this point and given us this platform.

And we can't wait to share everything with you.

And

I think, because we're going to get to football today, we're going to hopefully answer some questions that people want to know about what Heed the Call is really all about.

But I think we have to start, Mark,

by just, you know, catching up.

How about some thank yous?

Like, what, Mark and Dan's lost summer, what was the old John Lennon the lost weekend?

Well, I mean, he got lost for an entire year in Los Angeles, and I understand that state of mind, but this is even more original than that to our our own lives.

It kind of felt like we were lost for a decade in Los Angeles, quite honestly.

And now we are found.

And we have to say

some things and get some things out there that we've been sitting with for a while.

Obviously,

the way things concluded at ATN and to get to now, it's been months.

So let's say thank you.

Let's give out some thank yous

from

us

to you, starting first and foremost with the listeners, because

obviously what happened with around the NFL after 12 amazing seasons of doing that show

the way came and went and disappeared and trust us it was as shocking to us as it was to you

you guys deserved better and we felt terribly the show deserved better quite frankly and we felt terribly that we couldn't communicate with you because every it was coming from all directions to mark and I.

And the fact of the matter was that was a very, that was a time of uncertainty.

We weren't getting a lot of answers.

So obviously we couldn't give out any answers.

So we want to say thank you to the listeners, both for your patience, which has been outrageous, even, you know, after we got away from those first couple of weeks when we knew we were no longer going to be with the NFL to going through the summer and the process of finding a new home and eventually taking us to Underdog.

We still couldn't really say anything because there's negotiations and all sorts of things going on.

And you guys kind of

stayed with us right to Mark when we finally got to got the deal done and we announced the show.

And the listeners, just the outpouring of support

was overwhelming and really emotional for both of us.

And to see the show go to the top of the charts, both here in America and across the world,

yeah, that was for a really difficult summer in a lot of ways.

That was a payoff that made it not quite worth it.

That feels strange, but it was like, oh, it was all for a reason.

And it was the fans and the listeners that rode with us during this journey.

And we'll never forget that.

So thank you to the fans.

Yeah, I...

You know, I think that in the past, in years past, and especially, you know, after our friend Wes passed away, that you kind of just learned over and over how special our group of listeners are.

It's different than any other program out there that I experienced as a viewer or listener or

today just in the media landscape.

I can't thank enough all the people that reached out on Twitter, on Instagram, on email, in person.

I mean I met someone on the street the other day who was just like, what's happening?

Like what's happening with the show?

And it's just like incredibly gratifying.

And we couldn't really respond to those people.

And I think that was really tough because the last thing that we were trying to do was alienate people that already were wondering what had happened to this vehicle that they had listened to for so long.

And you know, I mean, let's be real, we spent about a thousand hours on the phone dance this past two months trying to sort out our destiny and what would happen to us.

And there were a couple moments that got a little dark where I thought, you know, I started to fall in love

as a young teen, the idea of broadcasting and talking to people about sports and sharing your own thoughts and writing and opinions.

And I mean,

I never took it for granted, but it probably came close to that time is when it started to become become a job.

But when it's taken away from you, and I'm driving around LA on the freeways in the day and in the night, wondering, I don't know if I'll ever get to speak to that group of listeners ever again about sports, or if maybe your time is coming gone.

And so to be back and to find out how much this show again means to these people, and I find out how much it means to me.

I'm really, I feel like this is a chance to give back to the people that have given so much to us and and stuck by us during the weirdest two months of our professional lives.

Absolutely.

I totally agree with everything you said there, Mark.

And

we, trust us, it did not go unnoticed.

You guys got weird too in a wonderful, beautiful way with your different conspiracy theories and your dark web dealings and all of them true by the way.

Yes, everything was true as you guys kind of tried to sleuth what was going on with the show sometimes you were on the right track sometimes you were very much on the wrong track but again just that you cared so much it really did help keep us afloat and when we were going through the process

knowing I got more and more confident personally that We had you guys and you guys had our back.

And if we just do our job and find the right platform, which Underdog Fantasy is absolutely that, everything was going to work out.

So thank you to the listeners.

We also want to thank the NFL because

we're here right now because of the NFL.

And

both Mark and I,

14 years ago in the summer of 2010, we came from very different situations, but we both took a chance and kind of turned our lives upside down the idea to work at the NFL.

We both took part-time,

what was it, three days a week jobs, not much pay at all.

Mark, you left a comfortable job in Los Angeles, a full-time job in Los Angeles to take a job essentially as a copy editor with no promises of anything.

I was in New York

living in Brooklyn with my then-girlfriend, now wife.

She was paying the rent.

I was

going from job interview to job.

I barely got a job interview.

I was going to coffee shops and desperately trying to get any work as a sports writer.

And just by happenstance,

when I had been in Los Angeles for a trip to see friends a year earlier, I had gotten a business card of someone that worked at NFL and

NFL Media here in Culver City at the time.

And I tucked that business card away in my wallet.

And I just kept it in mind as I was back in New York trying to find work that it's across the country.

It's very complicated.

If I were ever to move to LA to take that NFL job with no promises, but the shield and the idea of working for the NFL.

And then when we both got there and we took that job, we took those risks to have the opportunities that the NFL provided us.

I realized the dream about being a broadcaster and talking into a mic that I didn't even realize I had.

And thank you to Dave Damashek as well, who gave us our first chance to talk into a microphone.

And Mark, what happened then was 11 Super Bowls, the drafts, the combines, the trips to London.

I remember covering an Oscars red carpet, just unbelievable experiences

that we'll never forget.

And, you know, it was such an honor to do that show and make relationships that would last forever.

And we mentioned Chris Wesling.

That's how we got to know Wes, and he became such a central part of both our careers and our lives.

And what we did with Greg as a group, like you can't take that away, but it's also why it was so hard to swallow and to see it end so suddenly and without any warning.

You know, we recorded our last show,

left the building, and we didn't know.

We thought we were just going home.

We'll be back a couple days later.

And the fact of the matter is, Mark,

we were done and the show was over.

But the ending doesn't mar the overall experience there, which changed our lives forever.

Yeah, I mean,

we have similar East Coast upbringings, and we were obsessed listening 24 hours a day in the summers to WFAN.

We have always fashioned ourselves as like an offshoot Mike and the mad dog.

Always, I mean, we started our podcast thanks to Dave Damashek, you know, the debate club, a little 11 or 12-minute anti-vehicle that sat at the end of his show.

And I, you know, we texted Dave this morning.

I told him, Dave, we wouldn't be doing this right now if it weren't for you.

And I think of someone else, Justin Hathaway, who was our editor-in-chief back in the day when they turned NFL.com from like an AP wire to allowing you and I to write bylines for the first time.

And you know, when I took the job at the NFL, I did leave this terrible consulting or proposal writing job in downtown LA and like a hollowed-out death star.

I mean, it wasn't like a tragedy to leave that, but paywise, it was a risk.

And, you know, I walked into NFL.com not having really done journalism in ages, well over a decade.

And Hathaway sat there and probably realized in the first week, this person should not, it's not, he took a chance on on me, but it's like, this person's going to need some reps.

And like, I would take walks at lunch thinking, I am going to get fired here.

Like, there were a couple of dark times, and it's just like, you just had, it's like, I was like, I'm going to just work extra hours.

I'm going to stay there for longer than my shift and just get better and better.

It's like you and I, the one thing I noticed about you too was that we would walk around, we'd get beers and walk around parks after our shifts and just talk about what could be because it felt like the NFL at that time had so much promise for people that wanted to do more.

And I'll never forget when we first started to write, and you wrote some insane article about Vince Young, and you put a typical little dand line in there that I think I walked over to your cube across the newsroom and said, Something about you and your writing was like, I just feel like we don't know where this can go.

And so we started to collab a little bit more.

It turned into debate club.

Greg shows up.

Wes shows up.

And then everything took off.

And like, I feel nothing but incredible gratitude.

I was the nerd that walked around middle school with a Bob Costas card in my wallet.

Like I would hook up two VCRs to make my own football tapes, you know, annoying my parents.

Like I would put out newsletters with drawlings and would have like a subscriber rate of four people.

It's like these are the seeds that when people ask like well how do you get into this?

It's like you know if you're going to get into it and you fight to do it.

And I'll never forget a moment because it's hard not to have incredible memories of the four of us on these trips that you mentioned, especially Super Bowls.

And Bob Globber, who we love, a great writer, a great journalist, who you'd look up to because he was, you know, he had come before us.

And there was one night that the four of us and a couple others were sitting around, and he pulled me aside and he said, you know, what you guys have, I just want to let you know, it's very, very special and don't take it for granted.

And you never know when it will get taken away.

And I think I spent many years with my identity tied up with the idea that I worked at the NFL, our show, and I felt fear that it could be taken away.

And I had dreams at night of working in some terrible corporate job again.

It's like that's what haunts you and keeps you going, maybe, or for me.

And then suddenly, it is gone.

It's gone in the way that we knew it.

And it kind of is a life lesson because then it's like, what do you do now?

And I think the last two months,

Dan, showed what we are determined to do.

It's like, I feel a new fire to have this job and to be able to do this

because it got taken away.

It got taken away.

And so now we're on this new adventure.

And it's like, I literally couldn't pick anyone else that I would rather do it with than you.

Well, yeah.

And

I want to get to that, Mark, because, yeah, it was, I feel the same as you that I never took working at the at the NFL for granted and working in those buildings and, you know, having, you know, the NFL and the name of our show and all those great things.

And I think it's very, it's, you know, both

for us to be able to share with the audience and

I think just from a personal standpoint, I think it's important to share.

So how did this happen?

How did we get to this point?

And there's been a lot of speculations and assumptions about how Mark and I came to be disconnected from the show.

And I will say that in the past year, there were increasing difficulties and challenges and conversations

with people that we work with to make around the NFL.

Those conversations that at many times I was

in the room leading those conversations to mixed results, increased in frequency over the last year.

Some things were changing.

The company was shifting, and there were elements in terms of conversation that I, from my perspective, as we were entering what would have been year 13

of the show,

for the show to get better and evolve,

I felt like there had to be a level that we were reaching.

And there were some conversations there that it wasn't always, I didn't feel like we were on the same page.

and and although it's a little unclear even to this day um

what decisions were made about me in particular there was eventually a decision made on the eve of us signing a new contract as a trio uh that they didn't want to have those conversations with me anymore and um so my contract offer was taken off the table i was uh thrust into the wilderness as it were but i want to make thing something very clear to the audience uh that mark still had a contract standing contract offer from the NFL after this went down in fairly dramatic fashion.

So the next thank you is the first two were we's.

This one's just from me to you, Mark, who you know I love you and you're one of my best friends in the world and we've been through so much together.

I was thrust into that wilderness and a lot of uncertainty

as we were going to now sell this show that was going to have a different name, no feed, not even the same personnel.

But you chose to walk walk with me into that wilderness.

And it's something I'll never forget.

And it speaks so much to your character.

And it really motivated me when we were having those hundreds of hours of phone calls this summer to never, ever let up because we had to land on our feet because I knew how much you stuck your neck out.

to me.

So this show is so far like pretty serious, but this was a serious summer for us.

And I just want to say, I love you, bud.

Well,

you know,

it's a tough decision when something safe and secure is put in front of you.

But in this case,

everything I've just talked about, why I got into this as a person, why it drives me, why it feeds me, and our story together, it really didn't take me long to know exactly what I needed to do, what I wanted to do.

And, you know, I'd point to the fact that, like, you know, if you're going to go on these adventures,

you better be sure who you're doing it with.

And so in reverse, I feel the same way.

And I think that your passion for this podcast

from the very beginning, but I think even when times got tough, when you really were just like, you remind me of like an old-time

showman who's like, I'm not the show, I must do the show that I want.

I must do it the way that I want.

And, you know, if that creates sometimes, we grew up listening to radio men that we love that would talk about, you know, cantankerous ups and downs and trying to get their show done.

And it's like, you are very determined and always have been.

And like, you're the beating heart of the creativity behind so much of what happens and has happened.

And if you have loved moments, weird moments, bits, segments, like, well, Dan cooked up a solid 85% of those.

You know, it's like, and we'd fill in the spaces, but that's, but you have always been the engine behind

what makes this show, what made that show different and what will make this show different too.

And so it was a pretty easy decision in terms of where I wanted to go creatively.

And just also, you know, on a personal note, like, I've gone through a lot of stuff in the past couple of years, especially.

And

you were the one that would, you'd call me up, you know, one-on-one and say, how you doing?

Or like, let's talk through this.

And, you know, there's times when I know I annoyed our previous cast to no end.

I mean, we were real friends, and we are real friends.

And so you go through real life stuff, and we've seen a lot happen.

But point being, like, I know who's, you know, you've had my back from the minute we got to the NFL.

And it's also just, I want to have fun.

Like, this is where I want to go.

And

yes, let's do it.

Yes, let's do it, indeed.

And I guess there's one more thank you.

And it is

to the other person that we've done the show with from the very beginning.

This show started just you and I, Mark, around the NFL as the ATL Debate Club.

And then Chris Wesling was recruited by Greg Rosenthal, who joined the company a couple of years after we did.

And, you know, all the things that we talked about earlier about

how amazing it was to work at the NFL and to achieve what we achieved there.

Greg played a major role in that.

And

I wish he was here with us right now.

And

that was something that was always what I thought in my mind, like the future of the show, was that there would be the three of us.

And I obviously expressed that to him.

But at the end of the day, people make their decisions.

And I respect Greg's decision.

He made it with his family in mind.

He made it with what he wanted to do in mind.

And I think, and people should check out and enjoy and be respectful of NFL Daily and what they're doing over there because, like what we're doing, it's going to take time.

And there's a, but there's one thing I know is that Greg is very talented.

And he's a guy that works harder than anyone that I know in the business.

And

that's one of the reasons why I love doing the show with him so much because he cared.

And

so just a thank you to Greg, because it was an amazing run with us together, the four of us.

And then, you know, after we lost Wes and how,

you know, crushing that was

that we stayed together as three people.

And I know, and as a group, and I know there are some people out there that will say, oh, ATN was always best with the four of them.

And I totally get that.

And there's nothing you could change about that because fate intervened.

But I was damn proud of what we did, the three of us,

after Wes's passing, that we were able to kind of regroup and do a show that I think Wes would have really loved.

And I know all the Westlings over at the Cincinnati Zoo who were involved with the show at ATN more than ever after Chris passed because

we wanted to make sure his spirit was always involved.

And Lakeisha, and of course, Link.

So, what we achieved together during that entire run was special.

What the three of us did

was, I thought, for me, I'm even more proud of because it would have been so easy to pack it in after we lost Chris.

So I really, I'm going to miss working with Greg because I really, like I said, we had a lot of great times together.

I loved doing the show with him.

I thought we had great chemistry together.

We were a good match as a group.

But

we wish the best to Greg because all this is possible as well because of him, what we did together.

Yeah, I mean, Greg is another person that when he came to the NFL,

he had loads of experience and he was a proven commodity.

And he looked across the newsroom and

it was, again, I was like, I could see why he would want to replace me with someone else because I was still very new to the whole thing.

And

the first time we hung out was at a combine.

There's a lot of things that Greg and I have shared interests on.

And I viewed him as someone that

I could be friends with and work well with.

And he wrote me a note saying something very similar.

And there was a glimmer glimmer of hope that I'd be able to stay.

And like,

you know, a lot of so much that has happened since was because Greg

had faith in me and took a chance on me.

And like, you know, and all of us got swept up on this incredible journey together.

And, you know, we are family.

Like, we all have different dynamics interchangeably.

But Greg is someone that I, when I think of him, I'm like immense respect.

Like,

his love for football is completely genuine.

I don't think it will ever waver.

He is an incredible father.

Like, he is an incredible incredible husband.

And I really respect Greg for a lot of the ways that he does his job.

And I learned from that because, you know, I'm a little more emotional.

I can go hot and cold and stuff like that.

But I think that made our show good because we had conflicting ideas of the world and stuff too.

And I will really miss interacting with Greg on big news items, on game reviews, just how we prepare off-the-field stuff.

Like, you know,

when you have a show that takes, there has a space instead of someone like Greg, there's a lot of things you think about, like, wow, I wonder what Greg would say about this.

So,

you know,

he's starting out something new.

We are too, and it's going to take some time.

But, like,

you know, just to put that to bed, like, we, we...

We treasure the time that we had with Greg on this show.

It'll never be duplicated.

And when I think about the four of us with Wes, those were some of the most special moments on a microphone that one could ever experience.

And so things change.

You can't go back to what it was.

This is something new too.

But, you know, I think we're committed at this point to making this feel like something that feels familiar and new all at the same time.

We, you know, our listenership is so passionate.

You don't want to just play the hits.

We're not going to do that, but we are going to continue to be us, and we're going to continue to do what we've been doing for a long time.

There are no reverse gears in this tank, Mark Sessler.

So now here we are, heed the call with Dan Hansas and Mark Sessler.

And it's, yeah we started as a two we started as a pair now we're a pair again but it's not going to be just us so now we're going to turn the page we're going to take a break right now and when we get back we're going to start digging into

you know football this is a football show and we're thinking about oh heed the call you know should we put football on the show should we put a big fat football like right behind the lettering some some people might say yes some people say uh no uh you know a lot of people saying a lot of different things, Mark.

Yep.

But we roll forward.

We feel good about it.

We think you guys are going to get and enjoy this show.

It's going to have, like we kind of said in the teaser.

And shout out, by the way, to Bob Castro and my bud, my bosom buddy and throwback podcast Compadre for directing our 60-second teaser trailer that we dropped last week.

We hope that gave you a little idea that this show is going to be similar to the old one in a lot of ways, but also fresh in its own way so all this is coming up let's start let's do some football talk let's talk to some other people after this break let's go here we go

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All right, we are back.

All right, Mark, enough of that serious business.

Now, although it really does feel good to get that off our chest,

all this stuff that we shared.

And I'm sure there's probably, if you're listening, you might have more questions.

We're not going anywhere.

In fact, we're going to be doing today's show.

We'll be back on Wednesday.

We'll be back on Thursday.

And you know, the schedule will be very similar to what we've done in the past.

But there you go, Mark.

I think we kind of

took care of business in segment one today.

Yeah, I think for, you know,

the result, we didn't practice that.

We just did that from like from our hearts.

But I would say also that

for the thousands of, you know, amateur Nancy Drews out there, although she was technically an amateur herself, but like a lot of the mysteries are put to bed.

The MK Ultra theorists can quiet down.

We've tried to answer the questions the best we can, Dan.

The best we can.

And if anyone was worried that

Nancy Drew,

a novel for teen girls that came out 45 to 70 years ago, would no longer be used on this program.

No, the reference remains intact.

And that's just an example of the connective tissue that will tie ATN to this this endeavor.

Not just for girls, by the way.

It was in English, so anyone who read English could read it as well.

An adult, a child, a male.

Oh, very good.

Yeah.

So a standing reference.

Let's do a little housekeeping here.

New show, new social media.

So at Heed the Call pod on Twitter.

Also at Heed the Call pod on Instagram.

A little bit of a snafu on the Instagram side, so we had to reboot the Instagram.

Get your follows going over there.

Let's pump that.

Let's pump that stock and get both the Twitter and the Instagram

feeds with really impressive follower accounts.

So

everybody's proud of us.

Also, we're going to have a TikTok coming.

Maybe a Threads.

I don't know.

I don't even really know what Threads is.

I think it's vaguely connected to Instagram.

Anyway, YouTube.

Also, the great people at Underdog Fantasy, like

they really like video and what they're doing and what we're doing with Underdog, building out so much great content you might have heard for instance that bill belich is a colleague of ours now and there i wouldn't say that it was i wouldn't say it's in a contract mark but uh you know people at underdog seem to imply there's a pot potential of a uh a belichek get for heed the call and uh that that's something that i'm sure will keep you up many a night well i mean there's there is um you know connective tissue between the three of us uh i i was a youth that wrote him letters and in theory he wrote back or his secretary did.

If he were to go to listen to all of the Belichick impressions that you've done masterfully over the years, he may have a variety of responses to that.

So yes, a friendship is developing.

But what yeah, you know, if he's 1A, then we're 1AA because I think it's like, let's get everyone here together.

All sorts of great,

great stuff.

Underdog, and we love, and we're going to have him on the show in a few days, Josh Norris and Hayden Winks are like the fantasy gods around these parts.

But anyway, at Underdog NFL, if you're watching on YouTube, be sure to subscribe to that channel and like the video and check out all the underdog content because it's damn good.

We also have a new subreddit.

As we said at the top, you guys went off this summer and really engaged on a level that was frankly unhealthy, but we love you for it as well.

So heed the call on Reddit is where you'll find that subreddit.

And just leave five-star reviews wherever you listen to podcasts.

Help us climb up the charts because we got that pop.

And again, awesome, like crazy, like across the world.

Number one, Mark, across the world.

Now that's probably faded now.

So the only way to get back up to the charts.

It's like when Michael Jackson put out Thriller and then he went completely insane.

He's like, I need to be number one again.

So, and then he put out Bad, and it was number one again.

He was number one again, but it still wasn't enough.

And he kept going crazy.

The descent into madness

will be about this drive for success that will ultimately tear us down from within a la MJ.

Fair or no?

Well, you know, I think it's fair.

The parallel to Michael Jackson's musical career

is absolutely spot on.

I mean, I'd say when we're, you know, shooting up the charts before we had done an episode, that's the kind of thing that could raise some anxiety in the person speaking right now in terms of like you're kind of the preseason number one.

Like, what if your quarterback tears his ACL like, you know, in the first quarter of the first game?

So we got it, we have to go win games.

We've got to produce.

We've got to be what they think we're going to be.

Otherwise, I'm going to take a train to nowhere.

Yeah, well, it's like that scene in Wayne's World when

they team with Noah's Arcade and they rebuild the Wayne's basement set and Garth just freaks out.

I'm not having a good time.

That's what we're looking to avoid, but that won't happen until we put out our bad or maybe our dangerous.

And if you really.

And Dan, one thing I will say,

that came about about five years after Nancy Drew.

So, I mean, when we're talking about

art cultural references, there's, you know.

How about Tugboats going to take us out of the Michael Jackson conversation?

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Download the Underdog Fantasy app.

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You get it.

Nailed it.

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audience only.

Did I get everything there?

Yeah, I think.

Hey, hey, Dan.

I think you nailed it.

Good job.

Oh, look at this.

Look who's back.

Wow.

Oh, they were sleuthing, Justin.

Oh, they were sleuthing on the subreddit.

They were wondering, he puts in his notice over at Fox.

And will he join us?

But we kept it close to the vest.

But look who's back with us.

Justin Graver, the great producer of his time.

What's up, buddy?

Hey, Dan.

It's great to be back with you guys.

There was so much dot connecting on Twitter, on Reddit.

I put out my tweet, my farewell Fox tweet.

The timing was just lining up a little too perfectly to be a coincidence.

I think the people figured it out.

But you guys talked about how hard it was to not say anything all summer.

Like, I've only been trying to keep this down for a week or so, and it's been really hard.

We get, you know, I have my other Titans podcast, and we have some dedicated former ATN fans who just followed me over there.

I really appreciate this crazy fan base.

And they've been commenting on my videos: Are you joining Heed the Call?

Are you joining Heed the Call?

I've been getting non-stop tweets about it, subreddit questions.

And it's like, I don't know, maybe.

Wait and see.

Oh, you are indeed a part of the Heed the Call team.

And And honestly, when I talk about Mark, when we talk about like

after

we lost Chris and kind of finding our footing again, you know, when Justin joined the team and Erica, all our producers, for the most part, did tremendous work.

And Erica has such a key part of the show's history.

And it was under Erica that Justin learned the craft.

And when Erica moved on,

it was Justin who took over.

And the show was in such a great place place when Justin was leading the charge from behind the scenes.

And, you know, what I alluded to early in the show

about some of the circumstances that led to my own exit from the company and some of the conversations,

at times passionate conversations behind the scenes about what the show needs to be able to grow and evolve.

You know, if you want to look at ground zero of when things started to go sideways, it was Justin's departure from the company, which not only was extremely sudden,

like our departure,

but also completely unwarranted because he was doing such a great work.

And also,

Justin, like you knowing the way things work, we couldn't really share at that time how much you truly meant to our show and how much we loved working with you and getting to know your pre-engagement partner, Jessica, and her role with our show.

And like, so to have you back with us, buddy.

Like, like when Mark joined me in the wilderness, I thought to myself, I think we're going to be okay here.

When we got Gravedigger back in the fray just a few weeks ago, that's when we hit warp speed in terms of our enthusiasm and anticipation and excitement about what we had next.

So welcome back, buddy.

Thank you.

It's so good to be back, too.

I mean, you said it there, but the year or so, year plus or so that I was producing ATN was like the best stop I've had in my professional career by far.

And I enjoyed a very fun year at Fox after I was unceremoniously laid off suddenly, like you said, at part of the NFL budget cuts that year, right after the draft, right after we produced a 2 million view YouTube live stream show, which was

the best thing ever.

Moving forward, Justin.

Moving forward, had a great time at Fox, but

when I saw that ATN was done and you hit me up, Dan, I just knew like, if there's a chance to follow these guys, I will follow you anywhere.

So I'm so glad to be here.

And I'd say also, one thing that we knew why Underdog was so perfect for us, because when we were in talks about what would make the show work, because I think if you wanted to really understand why someone like Justin is so important, it's the relationship between you and Dan to build a show, but also my little issues, and you're just an absolute pro.

And Tim Livingston and Underdog said, oh, you want this guy, Justin?

Cool, we'll go get him right away.

And it's like, they just...

understood that relationship.

And like, Justin, you came back, you were gone for a year, but you came back with skills you didn't have before.

And I think that in the last three or four weeks, when Dan and I have been been juggling so much white noise and so much chaos, like I'm trying, we've said it like 12 times, but if there were no Justin, we probably would have just passed off the earth at this point.

Like you have been invaluable.

And like, also, I think as we dig into football, which will happen at some point on this Oscar-length introduction to the show, I miss you.

Yeah, like you're a huge part of that, too.

And so your role is going to be expanded.

And it just has felt like Kismet.

We had dinner the other night, and it's just like,

this is just another sign that we've made the choice that we needed to make.

We had, by the way, just for other updates,

boneless chicken wings as a group.

Yeah.

Bruised, some Tito, some boneless chicken wings.

Sessler just hammering them down.

I mean, I think I ate the carnivore baby.

No, there's a certain amount, so you're trying to make sure that you have a third when there's three people, only a third of it.

And I'm not even sure I got to that, but

I did have those.

Yes.

with you had another gathering about a week or so earlier.

He's hammering a cheeseburger, baby.

He's back, we got him back, folks.

Well, you know, I think I've learned in the last couple years, you gotta

you gotta embrace changes in life in many ways.

I love it, Justin.

Uh, awesome that you're here.

We love it.

I agree.

I couldn't be more excited.

I love it.

That's such a great time.

Who is that?

Who is that?

Jan,

it's me.

It's God.

Ah,

God.

You know, I've been talking to you a lot this summer and,

you know, didn't get a lot of responses.

Where you been, bud?

Just chilling, maxing and relaxing, as they say.

What about you guys?

Anything interesting happened to you this summer?

Hmm,

I would assume you would know, omnipotent and all, but

yeah, like I said, where were you, bud?

I went through a lot, personally.

We went through a lot as a group, and I felt like you were nowhere to be found.

I'm just being real with you, God.

My son,

in your times of turmoil, as you walked upon the sands of life and felt I had deserted you, for there were only one set of footprints.

It was I who was carrying you.

Bam!

Hail!

Wait, wait, God, isn't that Jesus's bet?

Ah, come on!

Me, damn it!

We're the same!

You know what?

Forget it.

Hey, here's something I've been working on this summer: impressions.

Want to hear one?

Uh, sure.

Go ahead, God.

Let's hear some impressions from God.

See if you can tell who this is.

A lot of people are talking.

Lots of people, frankly.

A bigly amount of people, believe me.

And they're all saying the same thing.

You're fired.

All right.

That sounds a lot like former President Donald Trump.

Nope, it's the NFL.

Hey-oh!

Wait, was that a laugh track?

Anyway,

all right, very funny, but you know, I gotta say, I did have a question for you, God.

Um, the question is: why?

Why did we go through everything that we went through this summer?

Obviously, it was a big shock to us.

There are many mysteries in the world, and I cannot share them all with my wonderful creatures.

I'll give you a hint, though,

Mr.

Freakalek himself,

my

successler.

Mark.

Hi, God.

What's that about?

I don't know.

Hello to God.

I have never heard his voice this way before.

That's right.

My man's antics have been so nasty lately.

So gnarly, so downright naughty, that the universe needed to course correct with a little karma, baby.

Karma?

Mark, I'm sorry.

God has a habit, it seems, of just doing this at this point.

I don't know.

No, um...

have you noticed that?

I have noticed that, and I would write a sharply worded letter about it, except I don't feel that I have the power in this situation.

My man put the damn in Sawdam and Gomorrah.

That's enough, God.

That's enough.

Oh, okay.

See you, Dan.

And remember, if I

wow, always stunning when God drops in.

And I don't know, sometimes it feels like

he's just having some fun with us.

But what are we going to do about it, like you're saying?

I don't know.

Yeah, it seems to have taken the foot off the pedal a little bit on some fronts.

More to learn there.

More to learn.

All right.

I think at some point we should talk football.

And apologies to people that thought, oh, this is a football podcast.

We had a lot of housekeeping to do, okay?

And then literally God busts into the conversation, which I don't even know how that really happened, but it did.

But now we're going to change focus.

We're gonna shift up.

We're gonna talk some ball

and we're gonna do it with someone who's gonna be more than a special guest.

He's going to be a part of this program multiple times a week.

So I think that should tell you what we think of him.

Joining us now,

he's still got that day gig with Sports Illustrated, but now he is part of the Heed the Call team.

It's none other than the legendary Connor Orr.

Let's go, baby.

What's up, guys?

Yeah.

Look at this.

Look at this roster.

Look at this dream team coming together in real time, baby.

Golly, it's good to see you guys.

Man.

In typical or fashion, you've got

a mishmash of incredible emblems and symbols.

You've got an Orioles hat on, which features Halloween-ish colors above a sweatshirt with the Grateful Dead logo, red, white, and blue.

So I love this version of Connor.

And it doesn't escape me that God was just in the studio and there's a crucifix behind Connor.

So we got all sorts of things going on.

Connor,

like I said,

you know, when we were

here, here's the negative about getting fired.

Your whole life gets turned upside down.

Here's the positive.

If you have a dream and you have a vision and you have supporters that are willing to go on the ride with you and you have a great friend and

colleague like Mark Sessler, we can then put our heads together and say, if we are starting this thing over, who do we want to work with?

And I don't know, maybe the first name was Connor Orr.

So, Connor, like we reached out to you,

that first phone call, you were hoping it was going to be the conversation that it was.

And we got it all figured out.

And you're along with us multiple times a week, including our Sunday flagship show.

And we could not be more excited.

Yeah, I was sitting on the beach when you called, and I turned to my wife, and it was like, I randomly projected like well into the future, like your name was just like coming up and I was like, man, I hope this is Dan saying that he's starting a new podcast and wants me to come on multiple times a week.

And I'm not even joking.

That's exactly what I said.

And my wife is like, well, maybe that's an oddly specific thing.

And lo and behold, here we are.

How about that?

That's a true story, Mark.

We got Connor in the bucket.

It is so true that like when we were beginning our earliest conversations about like kind of what could be to your point, like we want to do it together but who else and like Connor is someone that we both

some of my wildest experiences at the NFL were was living inside a chat room with Connor over the course of a news shift I mean wild things would occur from multiple angles and he is one of the he Connor I think you've just grown as a writer we've talked books forever we've gone to bars and talked books, cinema, and it's just like, I just think that we're picking people to be part of the show that match because we want to work with them.

We love them.

Connor thinks about football differently.

And so, yes, this is a joy.

I will never forget that, Mark, you hid with me when we worked at the NFL together.

I didn't want anyone to call me, and so I had to go to NFL Honors.

So, we like hid in this random bar in like San Francisco for like four and a half hours with my phone off just until NFL Honors would end.

So, I didn't have to go.

And part of that was not a hard chore.

I was was like, that's best friends for life, man.

That was a journey.

And the last time that Mark and I covered NFL honors on the red carpet, he stepped on

Ryan Tannehill's wife's purse and broke something in it.

So I'm surprised they would want to have you back, Mark.

But even if they did want to have you back, they weren't going to find you in that darkened tavern.

No,

that was a low point.

In NFL Honors, there was a lot of standing around, and it was Lauren Tannehill, a lovely individual by all accounts, and had a very expensive white purse that she had put on the ground.

And I got moved over by someone or other.

And I just heard, as my foot stepped on it, a loud cracking sound.

And she heard it too.

And we looked at each other.

And I don't really recall what happened after that.

Ryan was not there, thankfully.

That could have been an ugly part of it.

Here we are.

We've been talking to Connor for four or five minutes and still are not talking about football.

Welcome to Heed the Call of Dan Hansis and Mark Sessler, a football show.

Here's the thing:

like I said, Connor, regular part of the program, and we want

to get into the football conversation in our first episode.

We wanted Connor to do it.

And we were thinking about, what is the first segment that we do, the first football segment?

You know what it is?

And by the way,

we could say this now.

This is the shit we need to talk about.

Like, we...

We got to talk about this stuff because it's been since the end of May since we last talked to Mike's about football.

So what is the stuff, you know, based on, you know, the first week of the preseason just went down?

We had a summer full of storylines.

What must we absolutely bloviate upon before

just our brains explode from pent-up take suppression?

We're going to go around the horn twice.

And Connor, I was going to say you're the guest, but you're not really a guest.

You're part of the show.

But even though you're not just a guest, you're a part of the show.

I still want you to go first.

So, get us going, baby.

I want to talk a little bit about how football is back, toughness is back, baby.

There's a lot of fighting and training camp this year, but there is a reason behind it.

And I really dig this.

I've kind of gotten on to this early on.

I was at Giants camp, and I was talking to Brian Dable on the field before practice, and he said, watch what happens during practice today.

Daniel Jones will not throw a single pass in seven on seven.

For the uninitiated, seven on seven is when it's just quarterbacks and skill position players on offense, no offensive lineman, no pass rush on the other side, and linebackers, cornerbacks, et cetera.

He said, I want him to feel that pressure on every single snap.

I want Dexter Lawrence to be in his lap on every single snap.

And I went to a handful of Giants training camp practices, and I've yet to see him throw a seven-on-seven pass.

Now, a couple days later, they bring in the Lions, extra salty, fighting.

I wrote down in my notebook the fight times, and it was, there was a fight at 1122, 1124, 1128 1135 and then 1147 and that was the one that they were just like all right we have to cancel practice now like it's oh um but i think people are liking this there's this idea that you can callous yourself to the regular season aaron rodgers talked a little bit about it right there used to be a ramp-up period some coaches kind of think it's useless um and don't play anybody but then you're exposed to real football during the regular season for the first time it's a little bit of a jolt to the system you know what's

go ahead, Daniel.

Yeah, go ahead, Mark.

No, I was going to say, you're saying, because you've been covering teams, you were the Jets beat writer over a decade ago.

So you've been around training camps and covering teams closely for a long time.

You actually see a difference in how teams are approaching certain elements of training camp based on how the league has changed the format of this time of year.

So you look at it like a little bit of a pendulum.

Like Rex Ryan, my first year covering the league, Oklahoma Drill, like you just had, you know, there's absolutely no concern for human regard whatsoever, right?

And so that's the one end of the pendulum.

And then Chip Kelly comes around and slowly but surely, right, it works all the way to the other side where fast practices, we want to maximize our time.

We want to have as many drills going on at once.

And now what I'm seeing is, I think thanks to Dan Campbell, really, like the pendulum's starting to swing back.

So now it's kind of in the middle, right?

But where we're going is certainly closer to what I've seen in 2010 than what I might have seen in maybe 2022, 2023.

And it's like Dayball, and maybe he was literally talking to you.

I read some quotes, but he talked about that the rookie class that they brought in are a particularly nasty gang of players that are very physical.

And like, you know, I tracked that Lions, Giants practice.

I mean, you know, go back to the 80s, they would hit in every practice all season long.

And it just,

that's just how you do it.

And there's so many rules around it that you almost have to start fights in a way to get that physical exertion out.

But, I mean, of the two teams, teams, who was starting, like, who was the more of the aggressor, the Lions or the Giants?

The neighbors starting a massive brawl was probably one of my favorite moments of the preseason because you have this guy who's like a week into the league and then he's just like a pass was broken up into the end zone and he walks over to like a three-year veteran and for no reason like he's past him and then he takes one step backwards and just

like slaps his hand right in his face.

There was no reason to do it.

Like it was not like, it wasn't a joke.

They weren't talking.

And then, all of a sudden, like, this massive brawl starts.

Neighbors get pushed out of the brawl.

It comes back to him.

And then he lowers his body and like dives in like it's a rugby scrum.

And I was like, yes, like, this is, it's amazing.

Everyone's hot.

It's like 92 degrees.

I'm like dangerously sunburned.

And I'm just, I'm living my best life in this moment.

I feel like there's a bunch of like

super cranky uncles that are super fired up about this, you know.

Oh, they're being men again.

It's like, yeah,

yeah, Uncle Ken.

Yeah, they, you know,

you know, you know, they put them in dresses.

No, no, like it's just, it's all right.

That's the way it is.

Um, let me, let me do one.

Um, shout out to Uncle Ken.

I don't have an Uncle Ken.

Um,

I,

if you're familiar with this time of year and the previous program we did, I kind of loathe people making too much of the preseason.

I understand the preseason has value, especially internally for teams, but it's the big leaps in logic based on what you see in these games that kind of gets on my radar.

For instance, I saw a headline yesterday out of Broncos Land.

It was something along the lines of, Bo Nicks shows he's ready for the big stage in debut.

And it's like,

guy, it's an exhibition game.

There's no real scheme.

It's against backups.

It's in a quarter full stadium.

The local weatherman is doing the color for this non-national telecast.

The stage ain't coming for another month, so be careful about

taking too much

out of the games from that perspective.

That said,

or should I say, however,

I'm watching Caleb Williams against the Bills, and it's third and 12 in the first drive of that game, and he gets flushed out of the pocket, and he just rips one to DJ Moore for a first down and it reminded me of like a Mahomes type play and is he going to be Mahomes I don't know probably not but you also kind of get the feeling or at least I get the feeling and I know I'm not going out on a limb here because he is a number one overall pick that this dude's gonna be a dude that he looks the part he talks the part

And when he makes throws like that, and he led them on two drives, two field goal drives, so it wasn't overwhelming.

But again, he just, it's just one of those things where you could kind of see it.

And last year, I really, the guy that I got excited about, the rookie, was Anthony Richardson.

And I'm still excited about Anthony Richardson and what can happen in Indianapolis if he finds a way to protect himself and get some better injury luck.

But this Caleb Williams, man, let's listen to Caleb talking after that preseason debut.

Yeah, there is an understandment that it is preseason, that, you know, everybody's not going to show their looks and, you know, what they would do versus and vice versa.

But

it definitely is,

it definitely feels good to get out there.

Last time I was out there on the field, other than practice, was November 18th.

And

you go that long without something.

It's tough.

But it's been great.

The guys have made it fun.

They made it easy on me.

That dude doesn't seem like a rookie to me.

And I'm also watching the game, and it's reminding me that Cabe Williams isn't going to get the Carolina screw job delivered to last year's first overall pick, Bryce Young.

Moore is a top 10 type wideout to me.

Keenan Allen is maybe the best possession receiver of his generation.

DeAndre Swift had a 42-yard catch and run in that game that just reminds you how explosive he can be as just a natural playmaker.

You got Roma Dunze, obviously, as a rookie, but with some superstar potential.

Cole Komet,

that guy is a very underrated player, tight end, who's been productive his entire career and plays all the time.

If Williams gets protected, and that's something in fairness has not been always the case that you're hearing at a camp, that they have some work to do on that front, according to training camp reports.

But this kid's going to cook.

And if this kid cooks,

the city of Chicago,

who deserve a true franchise quarterback as much as, you know, just about any fan base out there, they're going to go absolutely mad.

Yeah, we are.

We're far away from the days of Mitch Trubisky being touted as like this guy that's going to come in and be a productive.

I mean, I think what matters with these quarterbacks that come out in the first round is like, do you see the traits that they showed and thrived at at the previous level in college?

And I mean, you know, it's a small sample size and it's one game, but

I was watching him and like, this guy can throw on the move as well as anyone around.

I mean, and with accuracy and with

force.

And I look at that 26-yard pass that he threw to Cole Komet.

It's just like he looked comfortable out there.

And Connor, I don't know, but do you feel like from these last couple of quarterback classes, for the ones that get it, if it's a CJ Stroud, it's like they come in more prepared.

They're calm.

They don't seem flustered.

And the traits are carrying over for the ones that are good.

And I just, I mean, for Bears fans who have been in a dark wilderness for so long, I don't care if it's one preseason game.

Like, fans are going to be fans.

Like, you've got to be watching that and be thinking, like, when is the last time the Chicago Bears had a quarterback that looked like he could be a true difference maker?

They played around quarterback for ages, for eons, and this just feels different.

And it's a good time to come into there as a rookie quarterback.

Yeah, what was really cool about the play to DJ Moore that Dan mentioned, too, is they started out in like a super vanilla, like kind of cover two look with two high safeties, but they actually did rotate their safeties on that play to kind of try to mess with him a little bit.

And so that was not your standard like vanilla preseason completion.

That was, we're going to make you think think this is a standard preseason vanilla defense.

And all of a sudden, we're just going to toy with you just a little bit.

And you can see what Caleb Williams does.

He has that first read, and he looks that safety over, and it creates just that little fraction of an inch where he can make that completion.

You know, you add that into.

His first snap when the pocket got muddy.

He gets out and he gets free.

And I think it was an incomplete pass that he threw, but he's extending the ball out to keep it out of harm's way.

And you contrast that with someone like Bo Nix, who is running for a first down and had the ball out of his hands facing like a defensive player who could have swatted it away.

You know what I mean?

And it's just these little tiny things that if you add them up during a preseason debut, you're like, all right, this guy looks.

very seriously good.

And no offense to Bo Nix, he had one of the coolest completions that I've ever seen in a preseason on a broken screen pass.

How many times do you see a screen pass broken and then a guy keep the play alive and actually complete it to another wide receiver that's not really in your route concept?

So he did that.

A lot of things to like, I think, with that.

Hey, listen, you saw, you heard the headline.

He's ready.

He passed it on the big stage.

Yeah, maybe, you know, Justin Fields, there was a lot of excitement around Fields in Chicago, and that didn't quite work out.

I remember being in Chicago back in September of 2009 when Jay Cutler got to town and people were on fire about Cutler's potential coming over from Denver in that big trade.

That didn't quite work out.

Obviously, Trubisky did not work out, but maybe, maybe, maybe they finally hit on something.

Mark, what do you got?

Well, I mean, this to me was one of the more intriguing

opening weeks of the preseason, which, you know, often can be a dud, especially when teams are not even playing starters, it teams like the Rams at all.

But, I mean, along with the quarterbacks, we get our first look at the new kickoff situation.

And, you know, I get it, teams are masking and hiding behind walls, what they're probably going to do in the regular season, but you still get some numbers that kind of tell you how different this is going to be because there were 127 kickoffs.

82% of them were returned.

Last year, during the entire 2023 season, only 22% of kickoffs were returned.

So we're looking at almost a 400% jump there.

And in this weekend alone, there were four kickoffs that were returned at least 45 yards.

The huge one from Parker Washington of the Jaguars for 73 yards against the Chiefs.

Jacksonville's Tank Bigsby also had a 45-yarder.

Maybe they were showing us a little bit more.

I don't know.

Karis Jackson, a 63-yarder for Gravediggers Titans, and Anthony Gould, 49 yards.

All AFC South players, so that's interesting.

But I just do wonder how much of a chaotic difference this is going to make.

And

it's certainly been advertised and talked about a bunch, but I thought we could get ahead of it if we wanted to play a little game and

go a little higher-lower on where we'll be at the end of the season.

And I'm going to throw out a higher-lower number, and you tell me if I'm way out of bounds here or what.

But there were only four kick-return touchdowns all of last season, and that's the fewest in 30 years.

Wild.

I mean, that play went away.

And

being at the Super Bowl, when we watched that opening kickoff, the last one we'll ever see of that nature, perhaps, I do recall Greg being like, this play has got to go away.

Like, it has no function anymore.

And then, bang, the NFL.

That's a single returnable ball.

The entire season.

I mean, exactly.

So,

this is a sea change.

uh there were four touchdowns i said again a year ago off kick return so what if i put and i i almost feel this is conservative but um because i want to be a dreamer but what if i put the higher lower uh dan connor and gravedigger at 11.5 touchdowns this season where would you go dan

11 and a half huh i'm gonna bang the i'm gonna i because i'm so confused about this still and as is uh as our players because for instance in the jaguars chiefs game uh there was a play play originally ruled a touchback that was overturned and created as a

rule to safety.

The Reds were

partially on that.

Yeah,

I really got to see how

the league adapts in the first three or four weeks.

And because it's so like...

It's kind of a non-answer, and I apologize, but I'm so kind of in the weeds on it that I need to see how the league adapts to it if it actually makes the difference they think it will.

I'll bang the under, though, because just because that's such a big jump.

I'm going going to bang the under, too, and here's why.

I think that, like defensive coordinators, special teams coordinators are fearful of giving up big plays, right?

And so, just like you saw really starting with the Mahomes era, the blitz rate just completely dropped because what do you not want on your resume, right?

You don't want any of these giant home run, Tyreek Hill, 90-yard touchdowns.

And I think the same is probably true of your special teams coordinators.

You're going to be likely to be more risk-averse averse and try to avoid the return as much as possible.

But, you know, I was asking around about it, and I think what we need to keep in mind about the preseason, especially preseason games, it's not going to look like that.

And you have to consider the fact that both of these coaches have probably talked before the game and they want to get things to look a certain way so they can see guys blocking a certain way.

So I think not only are we, we haven't even seen anything with a dynamic kickoff yet, because I think a lot of this still is essentially like a joint practice exercise, right?

Where, you know, to the point where one person was telling me, like, I don't even think those guys are going to drop back.

Like, you see guys kind of like falling back like they did during the old kickoff and then coming forward.

Like, I don't even know if that's going to happen during games, right?

And so, you know, why would you give up that ground?

You don't know, right?

And so it's one of those situations where I think we've got a long way to go on that.

But I would say under just because at the end of the day, it's all about job preservation, baby, right?

You don't want anybody scoring kickoff return touchdowns on you.

So the more

take us somewhere else.

What?

I'm going to say higher.

Higher.

Why not?

It's going to be exciting.

It's going to be fun.

I think Connor's probably right that we haven't seen a lot.

You know, like, is there a vanilla version of a kickoff return?

I think probably is what we're seeing.

And who knows how creative some of these teams are going to get.

I still have a sense that like one team before everyone else is going to figure out something special with this, and they're going to score, like, four touchdowns in three weeks, and then other people are going to start copying it, and then the defensive side is going to adjust.

But I feel like there's definitely potential for some really explosive plays, especially if teams are putting like legitimate playmakers back there, like not just a fifth-string right wide receiver or third-string running back or something.

Like, let's try to actually get really good field position and make something big happen.

And just the return rate being so high, like if your return rate is 20%, you're only scoring four touchdowns because you're only returning one in every five kickoff.

If you're returning four out of every five kickoffs, you're going to have a lot more potential to bust a big one.

So I'm going to say higher.

Oh, that would be wild.

Now, I was famously,

super not famously, actually, but I was not into pushing back the extra point because

I just thought.

I understood why they pushed back.

This is about five or six years ago now, because it had become a non-play.

It was so easy for the kickers, and pushing it back put a lot more pressure on the kicking game, which has enough pressure as it is.

But looking back, the NFL was right.

It made the extra point a little bit more dramatic.

It was a play that you really had to

nail rather than just go through the motions and that's what they're trying to do here.

And something Wes always used to say is that what the NFL does so well

historically is they're not afraid to tinker with the product and that could lead to failures like say the pass interference review, challengeable review that lasted one year or the initial run of instant replay in the early 90s before they kind of started to figure it out.

But it also could lead to the good type of evolution of the sport that makes it more fun to watch.

So let's see how it plays out.

How about we take a break and when we come back, we'll do one more quick round of this and then say our goodbyes.

We'll be right back.

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All right, we are back.

It is time for an ad read, and I'll throw it to Mark Edward Sessler for that.

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Very nice.

Wow, Mr.

F's back in the mix.

She-Ra's back on the cultural radar.

The He-Man and She-Ra Christmas special for a kid of the 80s, that was a big deal.

Yeah, I believe they made, because I was trying to do some research, a limited amount of research on She-Ra.

She-Ra, not going too far down that wormhole, but they did some.

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There's a whole soundtrack and everything.

So

a new generation of She-Ra followers.

Breaking news.

Anham Raha.

According to multiple sources, including

and Rap Sheet,

Edge rusher Hassan Reddick has requested a trade from the New York Jets.

This is the same Hassan Reddick who has yet to play a snap for the New York Jets.

They acquired him in a trade from the Philadelphia Eagles

back in March, and he has been holding out of camp and accruing significant fines in accordance with the CBA agreement for not reporting to mandatory training camp.

And now he wants out of New York, feeling that he was misled, boys,

when the Jets traded for him.

I now have a statement as well to add to this from

General Manager Joe Douglas of the Jets.

Let's hear that miss of music, Justin.

We have informed Hassan that we will not trade him, that he is expected to be here with his teammates, and that he will...

continue to be fined per the CBA if he does not report.

Since the trade discussions back in March, we have been clear, direct, and consistent with our position.

Our focus will remain on the guys we have here as we prepare for the regular season.

Maron,

Connor.

As you know, I'm a Jets fan.

This one has gotten me.

I've had...

Some concern about this from the very beginning because I, in general, don't believe that the Jets operate a buttoned-up operation from the top down.

And I'm wondering if Joe D, who's had his share of hits and misses,

handled this the right way.

I mean, obviously, his statement here implies, at least publicly, that they were always clear with Reddick that they weren't necessarily going to give him the long-term deal he desired.

But can you remember in your years covering the sport of a team trading for a player who demands a trade before playing a game for that team he got traded to?

Well, this is just, I mean, it's unforced error after unforced error, right?

And I think it stems from ownership because, you know, ask any general manager in the NFL, right?

Would you want to pay the guy or not?

It's like, yeah, I would like to pay the guy.

Just someone give me the money so I can go over and hand it to him.

Someone is not allowing Joe Douglas to pay the pass rusher that he went out to go get.

It's not like he wants to derail the most critical season of his football life, you know?

And I think, you know, dating all the way back to the preseason and we're allowing the quarterback to abscond to Egypt and you can make what you want to make out of it.

But the fact that you're labeling it an unexcused absence and making it into something bigger than it is.

And you're just leaving these little trails of gunpowder leading to the keg of explosives.

Like, why are we doing this?

And why would you...

Why would you trade for someone who you know wants a new contract without at least having discussed or having the potential to give him that new contract on the opposite end?

I think that it's not Hassan Reddick that's being fleeced on this one.

I would send my sympathies to the GM.

Yeah, I mean, I think also it makes you look back on how the off-season unfolded.

And you had Bryce Huff, who was a promising player that deserves a larger role, and he's gone.

And

that's part of the player's choice in that situation, too.

But it adds pressure to Will McDonald,

who didn't exactly shine last season.

You've got a couple other guys there, but Reddick who has been,

he seems to move from team to team, but highly productive.

Like, I mean, a very productive player who would have fit into a ready-to-go, playoff-ready type defense.

And it's a distraction at the worst part of the season because, A, it's like

you need these guys to start to play together and mesh together.

And the last thing the Jets need, because they feel very kind of like critical mass, like the smallest thing could maybe completely unseat this team.

It's just, it's so, it just happens so many times.

Like, no infighting.

Can we get this team together?

And if it's ownership on down, like, pay the players and start to make an impact in the AFC East while you have probably one more season of Aaron Rodgers and you're trying to keep him healthy.

Like losing key player, I mean, losing a key edge rusher is about as bad as like a left tackle, right tackle.

I mean,

it could unspool what could be a very special defense.

It is.

It's the ultimate all-in season with the Jets.

It does feel like a house of cards.

I was fundamentally changed by the events of 9-11-23 when Rodgers suffered that Achilles tear.

I don't feel necessarily great about this season.

I do think there's a very high potential for this to flame out, and this is a subplot that only adds to that.

And now it's almost like you have a player that's being held hostage by the team, and it just bad vibes, and we'll see what happens

going forward.

But yeah, you mentioned Will McDonald.

They used the first-round pick on Will McDonald last year.

So if this ends up with Reddick not playing a snap for the Jets, it will be egg on the face no matter how they spend it for the team.

But at least you have in McDonald a guy who they believe, at least in terms of skill set,

can handle it.

Now, also, I just want to say about McDonald, he was undersized in terms of where he was playing at.

And the idea was that he was going to come to camp and beef up.

I think it was between 10 and 20 pounds.

And he came to camp the same weight he was last year, from what I understand, which to me, a little bit of a red flag itself as well, in terms of whether the player is ready to make that leap as a pro.

We'll see.

I don't know, man.

I don't know about the Jets.

I mean, it's a new podcast.

Should I just bail?

I mean, it's like literally like 40 minutes into our

first venture on this head to call pod and here we go.

There is an earthquake happening by the way.

See that?

Whoa.

There is an earthquake happening and it is shaking this room like a crazy man.

Okay.

Whoa.

Whoa.

Everything's let's just let's just get it all.

God's speaking to us in various ways.

It's still shaking.

Yeah.

That was a sign about the Jets, Dan.

No doubt about it.

That they're going to win the Super Bowl?

Let it go.

Yeah, that was like Marshawn Lynch Beastquake for the Jets just cheering in the stands so hard when they win the Super Bowl.

I'm on the seventh story, and I think this floor almost just slid off like a record on a stack of records right off into the Hollywood space.

That was scary.

Whoa.

All right.

Well, that was memorable first show stuff.

You guys at least look ready for it.

Like, I don't know if you know this, but we had like an earthquake in New Jersey

like a couple months ago that was for the first time in like a hundred years and like the second largest earthquake in the state's history.

And my first instinct was to take both of my children and well, my first instinct was I thought my wife broke the dryer.

And I was like, I was like, you have to stop putting wet towels in there, like so many wet towels in there.

Like I thought it was the dryer breaking.

but then my second instinct was to grab both of my children and move them right over to the floor to ceiling windows so we could look outside and see it

and it's like apparently one of the most dangerous places to have your kids during an earthquake we're supposed to go bathtub right uh yeah we didn't do it

not there all right that was wild

All right, let's hope that was the only one.

All right, let's go around the horn one more time before we say goodbye, Connor.

Your turn.

I would like to know why we aren't talking more about the Jaguars.

And I think that everyone's just like, oh, it's going to be cool.

They signed Trevor Lawrence to a long-term deal.

What if this year is bad?

And they start the season in Miami playing the Dolphins, which is a terrible place to play early in the year.

It's super hot.

All their players are healthy.

They're going to boat race people early in the season.

Then you have the Browns.

Then you go at Bills, at Texans, Colts, at Bears.

What if that's a bad start to the season?

So now you have Trevor Lawrence.

His first year was with Urban Meyer.

Everything from that season has been thrown into an incinerator, hoping that they're going to forget it.

Now you have a second head coach.

You've signed him to a long-term contract.

That doesn't work.

So you're on a third head coach for the gift from God quarterback that you've been bestowed, and you still are no closer to figuring it out.

I think they're able to hide a little bit sometimes from public view here, but that division has gotten really good.

And holy smokes, what if they go like seven and ten this year?

I can't think of too many teams that like spent a number of months as like the it team, the future of the AFC South and the future potentially in the big-packed AFC, and then immediately got swept under by teams in their own division.

Like the CJ Stroud-led Texans became the A storyline.

And now like what the AFC South is, you know, it's not the toughest division, but the Colts are rugged.

I think the Titans are going to be better than people think.

The Texans are a legit like Super Bowl contender if things go right.

And you've got the Jaguars sitting there not playing an easy lineup in the South.

And now they play the NFC North as well.

And the NFC North has completely transformed over the past two seasons.

And I'm looking at their schedule, and it starts with a bunch of those road games.

And yes,

they reside in Florida, so maybe Miami won't be as big of a shock to the system, but that's a tough place to go right out of the gate.

And I'm with you.

It's like there is a lot of pressure on all parts of that team, and it could get ugly pretty quickly.

Gravedigger, I know you love that.

You love the idea of the Jaguars going from the team everyone assumed would dominate for a decade to potential shambles.

I mean, I'm not mad about it.

I kind of agree, too, and I'm extremely biased in that viewpoint.

But like

a lot of Jags fans just blamed Calvin Ridley for Trevor Lawrence's struggles last year when he had struggles.

And it's like, it's not all on Calvin Ridley dropping a few passes here and there.

By the way, 4.7 earthquake out of Pasadena for everybody out there wondering.

Also, for people wondering,

with Gravedigger's return to the show,

would his

rotating Titans helmet in the background that's rotating perhaps 24%

faster than it should be, would it still be operational?

Would the little motor burn out at some point from excessive rotation?

It's still there, and it's still rotating at a very high rate.

So just that's a little developing news itself.

There's no motor.

It's like magnetic.

It's suspended between the top and the bottom.

You see, there's

a lot above and below.

Yeah.

It's pretty cool.

Wait, does that blow anyone else's mind?

Well, no, it just survived an earthquake.

It didn't move an inch.

So I am quite impressed with the technology.

All right.

So

I love watching.

And only me.

I'm the only one that feels this way.

Generational greatness.

Love it.

It's why, as a child, I remember being fascinated by Mike Tyson.

Just the idea of Tyson as like the baddest man on the planet.

Why I never missed the Michael Jordan

NBC games, even as a Knicks fan.

Why

now watching Juan Soto and Aaron Judge batting back to back for the Yankees gives me the giddy excitement of Mark Sessler at a Star Wars 7, The Phantom Menace Strikes Back anniversary screening.

And I hate when...

What?

That is just factually incorrect.

And I hate when greatness is denied, and that could happen with injury, Bo Jackson down on the ground, grabbing at his hip against the Bengals in the playoffs comes to mind, but it could also be denied by just a failure around

that generational talent.

And I'm going to talk about Patrick Mahomes here.

And it's kind of absurd to say that any system in Casey is failing

when you consider the Chiefs have won three of the last five Super Bowls.

But I'm talking about like loving watching Patrick Mahomes kick unholy ass, like earthquake rattling ass

on the football field with his unbelievable skill set that he has.

And this Chiefs wide receivers course still got me shook.

According to the always essential Aaron Schatz FTN football almanac, Chiefs receivers,

and that includes Travis Kelsey and the running backs, dropped 35 passes last season, the most in the NFL.

Other sites had that figure even higher.

The

wide receivers also had nine fumbles last season.

All of this had an effect, obviously, on Mahomes and enjoying the way he plays as a football fan.

He threw for

1,000 less yards last year.

His touchdown total dropped from 41, which was either at the top or near the top in the league the previous year.

year, to a pedestrian 27.

He had more interceptions than in any season of his career.

And again, that's not necessarily his fault.

Many of them, he was 14th in passer rating, 8th in QBR.

And I want to underline that I don't think this is Patrick Mahomes' fault.

And I also don't think that the Chiefs are like being run poorly because obviously they're not because they're the champions.

But this is just,

I just want the Chiefs to get back to letting this man be muscy TV again.

And, you know, that takes us to what went down this past weekend, the first play of the preseason.

Freaking preseason.

Hollywood Brown has a

sternoclavicular dislocation.

That's a scary injury that can really be life-threatening.

They have to reset it.

It's going to cost them a lot of time.

Probably about a month.

He's probably going to miss the beginning of the season.

And that's going to obviously set.

a new player back.

He had come over, obviously, from a couple of years in the wilderness in Arizona, and they had big plans for Hollywood Brown, and he could still be a big player, but that doesn't help.

We know everything that's happening with Rashid Rice, who's facing suspension for his offseason of misadventures.

They used a high draft capital

mark on Xavier Worthy, the combine guy, Texas Longhorn, a gravedigger.

So I know you think he's going to be incredible, and maybe he will, but rookies, you never know.

So, you know, what's left behind them, you have guys like Kadarius Toney and Sky Moore, former second-round picks, still involved, but just trying to make the roster.

It is going to be

tricky and and not for nothing, Marky.

Kelsey's 35 now, and I know he had a great playoff, but he showed signs, I thought, of slippage during the regular season, and he just spent an offseason traversing the world with the most famous woman alive.

If Kelsey isn't Kelsey, it gets that much more difficult.

So

will Mahomes be able to cook this year, or are we going to be watching a lot more of the Chiefs grinding out primetime victories, which I'm kind of over.

I just got to be real.

I had to get it off my chest.

Yeah, and that Chiefs fans know about that injury because Tyreek Hill suffered that back in 2019, and he missed four games.

So I think you could, you know, look at something similar for Hollywood Brown.

They seem like for a number of years in a row, I mean, you're kind of tracking the Kelsey thing because it's like, I don't want to suggest he's going to be lesser, but that is a possibility.

There is age there.

They feel like they've got a bunch of wide receivers.

They have a ton of wide receivers.

I mean, just an immense amount of guys that seem like they are partway there, but not fully there.

And it's like you get like little playoff heroic moments, but it's like the Tyreek Hill trade, and you don't want to spend a lot of time on that now, but it's like that didn't really work out for them because they never really found like the next guy.

And like, I think someone like Xavier Worthy brings a lot of hope.

They are fast.

They've got a lot of speed on their team.

And I think like in when we talk about the Jets being like an inch away from implosion because there's no organizational like muscle memory to having succeeded in tough moments or getting over things like that.

And there's a lot of teams like that.

The Chiefs are kind of the reverse.

Like they may not be as fun to watch, but it's like, it's hard for me

if Hollywood Brown comes back in week two or whatever it is, like to really feel like this team is going to be stretched too thin, that they're not going to find their way out of it.

But I think to your point about Mahomes, I think it was like the 10th-rated fantasy quarterback in a number of ratings, that

you're not getting these massive statistical seasons where they're dumping 400 yards and five touchdowns on teams every couple of weeks.

They've had to learn to win differently, but that's a strength too, Connor, I guess.

Like, it's like, I guess I just trust them, and they find a way to get through these little moments of wreckage.

I do think like the Bills are doing it this year with Josh Allen, and I think that you do have to somewhat organically create your own receiver core if you want to have a financially sustainable football model because receivers are so expensive right now.

But to expand on the Kelsey point, you know, I remember talking to Andy Reid about this.

He's like, you know, Travis's best trait is getting everybody else in the offense open.

And so if he's 35, which he's going to to turn 35 this season, I'm 36.

I don't feel great, you know, getting up every morning.

You know, I'm sure Travis maybe feels a little bit better than I do.

But, you know, if he starts to slow down just a little bit and watch how tight ends of that ilk age, like Rob Gronkowski got out before we could see him in this way.

Like Mercedes-Lewis is still hanging on, but wasn't nearly the receiving threat, but was dramatically involved in the blocking, right?

George Kittle is going to be another example where what happens when he gets old enough where you're not super worried about him after the catch.

Your defense isn't going to rotate to him.

And then all of a sudden, the onus is going to be on these wide receivers way more than it was in the past.

And they weren't doing that well when Travis Kelsey was giving them all this open space to begin with.

All right.

Here we go.

One more from Mark Sessler.

And then I want to hear from Gravedigger.

And then we're out of here.

Yeah, so, I mean, we could have done a whole show on the quarterbacks that we saw for the first time.

and

I am not falling for like this quarterback's gonna be a star, but I just wanted to see if

If Michael Pennex, I'm calling this segment Big Pennex energy because

what I liked watching about him and the tape I saw in Washington were with him and Roman Dunze just kept hooking up on massive downfield throws and like what I like about Pennix was just how aggressive he was and his mindset seems to be I don't care if it's third and two like it happened in this game like I'm gonna against the Dolphins I'm gonna I'm gonna strike deep he had a beautiful 41 yard strike to Chris Blair I think that shows you what he can do there was a lot of other stuff going on that game where there was a sideline route where he didn't give the wide receiver the greatest chance to catch the ball he had one that was like a way overshot of someone downfield he was nine of 16 for 104 yards but there is something about him that you know we spent a lot of time talking about why the falcons did this what it does for your starting quarterback that you just paid a ton of money to and Kirk Cousins, what it means to have a quarterback behind someone that has sort of spicy traits.

Like he's not, he doesn't, we know he's not a fully developed product.

He's also 24, so it's like there's this ticking clock with this guy that you took early in the first round.

And I just wonder if it changes what might happen to that team.

And they're a pretty interesting roster with a lot of promise in a weak division.

But Pennix, who's gotten a lot of the reps in camp, obviously, he starts to do things in preseason games.

And it's not the same, but like when Joe Flacco was the clear starter ahead of first-round pick Lamar Jackson, and no one was questioning what was going to go on there, and then things just went completely south, and Flacco is sitting, and the whole organization changes.

You've got a different quarterback there, and I know the money is going to Cousins, but...

Fan bases go nuts.

If they got off to a slow start, you get that version of Kirk Cousins where he's not the perfect guy for four games, but there's mistakes and they're not winning the way they should with the quarterback position.

Like, does this just create this insane pressure to put someone like Pennix, who's an exciting, engaging, modern-day gunslinger out on the field off faults aside?

Yeah, so two really awesome things about Michael Pennix.

I think you make a great point, Mark.

We had lunch before the Super Bowl this year, and I was talking to him about high school, right?

And he, I asked him, how many plays did you run in high school, right?

Because we were talking about how he got to where he was.

He ran eight plays over four years of high school, eight plays.

He saw two different defenses.

That's it.

So he gets to Indiana.

No one shows him how to watch film.

He starts playing games at Indiana by just memorizing what routes his wide receivers are winning on.

And then if he sees it during the game, he knows like, okay, I'll throw to that guy.

Teaches himself how to watch film, builds himself into this like mega quarterback.

And then you get to the point where during that first preseason game, I love asking quarterback coaches, what do you want to see out of guys in the first preseason game?

And one of the things they always say is deep outs, right?

That's like an NFL level throw.

And he barely missed one in the first preseason game, but it was like a 16-yard out, but he's left-handed.

He threw it across his body with like no effort, and it lands on a dime.

And like, these are the little things that his coaches are probably sitting there and being like, holy smokes, like.

This guy can sling it, you know, and it's just, it's going to give you that little additional thing that Kirk Cousins doesn't have.

And we're not even getting into the mobility aspect of it, right?

Kirk Cousins can't run zone read with Bijan Robinson.

Michael Pennix can't, you know, once you feel confident with him being on those legs, you know, and he's gotten injured a few times, once you feel confident enough letting him rip in the running game, it might be over sooner rather than later for Kirk Cousins.

Yeah, we're going to see how all this plays out.

I don't have any problem with the Falcons drafting Michael Pennix, but I'm never going to change my opinion that I do have a problem with signing Kirk Cousins and then drafting Michael Pennix.

It creates a lot of unnecessary drama potentially.

If Pennix ends up turning into a stud, they'll move past it, but this is also you're potentially kicking away.

I don't know.

I just think the process was broken.

Maybe it ends in a good spot, but it's also very possible because Kirk Cousins has been a famously consistent and productive quarterback that he'll end up playing there two years.

And so whatever he's doing in the preseason, Michael Pennix is like kind of the most juice you're going to get from him until he's damn 26 years old.

So

we'll see how it plays out.

Let's throw it to Gravedigger,

who is going to give us a quick, quick rundown of anything else from the preseason worth talking about in week one.

Yeah, you guys hit most of it.

I'm going to try to do all of this before this two-minute song ends.

So let's see if

I can do it.

Yeah, right?

All right, Malik Neighbors got zero targets in the first preseason game.

Exited practice with an ankle injury.

Something to watch there.

Baltimore, Philadelphia, Ravens rookie Nate Wiggins suffered a shoulder sprain.

Definitely should watch that.

Also, the Ravens are now on a three-game preseason losing streak after famously winning 24 straight games.

You talked about Caleb Williams.

Josh Allen hit Curtis Samuel on a nice pass.

That was cool.

Jaden Daniels launched a bomb on third down.

Huge conversion there.

Capped off that drive with a rushing touchdown.

Also, note, Brian Robinson looks like the guy here in Washington.

Austin Eckler, more complimentary.

Braylon Allen looks like a dude for the Jets.

Panthers, Patriots, Drake May played one drive, completed two dump-off passes.

Joe Milton played a lot and looked pretty good against backups.

Carolina played good backups.

You hit Atlanta pretty good there with Michael Pennix, but I will also say Braylon Trice, third-round rookie, injured his knee, landed on IR.

He was playing with the ones, was going to be part of the Falcons pass rush.

That's a bummer for him.

Also, Justin Simmons is visiting the Falcons after he just finished a visit with the Saints.

Dolphins played mostly backups, but their rookie running back, Jalen Wright, looked very explosive.

Houston, C.J.

Stroud played, looked pretty dang good.

Three and out on the first drive, but then hit Tank Dell for a 34-yard touchdown.

You're telling me that's a magnet.

That helmet is spinning.

Yes.

By magnetic forces.

Song's going to end here.

Stephon Diggs on the sideline looking upset.

Is that already starting?

We'll see.

Justin Fields did not look good.

I think Russell Wilson will start for Pittsburgh.

Derek Carr did not look good at all.

Taysom Hill lined up at X receiver on the first play of the game for the Saints.

I'm very worried about the Saints.

Arizona, mostly backups.

Chaos.

Seattle.

Seattle and LA.

Chargers played pretty much all backups.

Could be important for the Chargers if Justin Herbert has to miss any time.

All three quarterbacks that played in this game for them looked terrible.

Byron Murphy looks like a dude for Seattle.

First-round pick out of Texas.

You hit the Chiefs.

You hit the Jags pretty well.

Nice dude.

Bengals offense looked really good.

Joe Burrow played one drive in his return from injury.

It was a 12-play touchdown drive.

Interesting note on the Bengals.

Dax Hill moving from safety to corner.

And injury news: rookie first-round pick Amarius Mims will miss several weeks with a strained peck.

Tough break for a guy who's having a good camp.

Bucks, center, Graham Barton, looks really good.

Rookie, interior upgrade for them.

Sam Darnold started for the Vikings.

Looked pretty good.

J.J.

McCarthy struggled on his first drive, but rebounded and showed a lot of promise.

He could be good.

Raiders' offense looked way better than I expected.

Antonio Pierce announced on Sunday that he will name a starting quarterback next week after their second preseason game.

Green Bay versus Cleveland, Jordan Lee, awesome.

65-yard touchdown, looked good.

I'm out of time.

Anthony Richardson struggled.

Jared Stidham threw the most hilarious interception I've ever seen.

Samanjay P.

Ryan just juggled the ball right into his hands.

Bonix played pretty well.

Will Levis led two touchdown drives.

Still going.

And this is the last one.

No starters played for Cowboys Rams, but Jordan Whittington looked good.

So that's multiple Longhorn shout-outs I got to give there.

Do you look better than J.J.

McCarthy?

Like if you were going good versus good, who was the gooder?

A quarterback or what?

Yeah.

Who are you talked about?

What's it like in terms of a football player?

You said they both looked good.

Who looked gooder?

I think J.J.

McCarthy might have looked the best of the rookie quarterbacks, including Caleb Williams, including Jaden Daniels.

He got to play a lot more, so he got a chance to show a lot more.

And he did struggle.

I mean, he threw a really, really bad interception.

But he also hit two deep touchdown passes that looked pretty beautiful.

So into that.

Can I mention one other player?

Oh, we're going to

at some point in the show.

We're going to do these multiple times a week now.

I'm just letting you guys know that.

I know it.

Just a quick callback to, you know, I'm trying to collect a receipt on this.

In our previous incarnation, I was talking up Bengals rookie, who has a troubled college past to some degree.

Jermaine Burton,

big play in that game.

And I really think he's, I predict he is going to be a factor in that offense right away.

All right.

You've now put down the receipt.

It's been a long time since Zach Zenner.

You're due for a hit on this one.

So I believe in you.

I believe.

Also, how about Zach Wilson?

10 of 13, over 100 yards, no interceptions, no sacks.

Zach Wilson proves he can handle the big stage.

All right, let's say goodbye.

Like I said, like we said,

thank you to everybody for your support, overwhelming support.

We hope you enjoyed the show.

And no, they're not all going to be this long, but listen, we had a lot to get to, and we wanted to give you that balance of truth and honesty about our journey to this point and also get some football in and reintroduce you to the great gravedigger and the awesome Connor Orr.

And check out Connor at Sports Illustrator, where he's a senior writer.

Of course, what do you got coming out on the SI side, Connor?

Guys, the football preview issue is coming out next week, and it's big and it's beefy.

Coolest cover that I have seen in probably three or four years since I've been there.

I worked on it.

I'm very excited about it.

Buy it.

Okay.

Excellent.

Nice.

Good plug.

I want to send a special birthday wish to Jack Hansis, who turns 10 years old today.

So 8-12-14 was the most important special day of my life when it happened.

And this is obviously one of the biggest days, Mark, of our career.

So 8-12, I hope everybody's okay from that earthquake.

And yeah, thank you, not just to the listeners, Mark.

I think our family, you know, Emily, my wife, has been, you know, so important to this in terms of support and even helping us out with the business side of things.

And I love her, and I'd be lost without her.

And also all our friends and former colleagues that reached out to us privately during all this.

Thank you to you guys as well.

Yeah, I think like, you know, when you, I've learned that when you stop making money for nine weeks, you've you find out things about various people.

And the people that I would want to find out things about.

I'll pass that test inside.

But I almost want to

say sorry to my family because my extended family came out for like a visit in the middle of all this and I was like an absolute dire stress ball and I don't think I wish I could have those days back.

But they also just complete and total support the whole time.

And I, you know, thank you to everyone.

We are back barring an earthquake, taking, you know, a second earthquake here.

Don't need that.

Wonderful.

All right.

I think that's it.

We'll be back Wednesday with another show.

We got some announcements coming up in terms of more content and how we're going to be able to reach you guys, the listeners, in ways we never could before.

So we are off and running on this beautiful new journey.

Mark, I love being on the ride with you.

And

we're going to go straight up there, Mark.

Straight through the atmosphere together.

Until next time, Peter Park.

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