2025 Hot Butt Rankings!!

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I would put him in the Stefanski category, too hot to be fired.

Oh, like physically hot.

Yeah, like we can't move on from

the attractive back to you of the both of us.

I see.

I see.

I thought that's what you meant earlier, but now it's very clear it's been underlined.

Well, it is the hot butt, you know, conversation.

Hey-oh!

Welcome to He the Call, a special Labor Day edition of He the Call.

I am Dan Hansis

with the great Mark Sessler.

What's up, Ceci?

Well, while other people are, you know, lounging around the hotel pool in their bikinis and bathing suits, we are working on Labor Day.

We are working on Labor Day.

We're definitely not pre-taping this ahead of it.

Absolutely not.

Under no circumstances would we do something so unprofessional.

So that's why this Monday, what a great Monday it's been so far.

Weather is normal for this time of year and various things that would happen on a Monday are happening, you know, so that's a cool thing.

Yeah, and if you want you want to ask me what happened on Saturday and Sunday, I can tell you everything you need to know.

Like, that's where we're at right now.

For instance, I'm wearing this Oasis shirt that the concert that I went to yesterday, Sunday, and what a show it was.

I enjoyed it.

And that's why I'm here on the Jersey Shore in my parents' downstairs area.

And, you know, a little bit of a tradition

that we like to do.

In fact, why don't we bring in our guests on this very important Hot Butts 25 episode?

Not even, you know, this is family.

First, welcome back, Connor Orr.

Where's Connor been?

We've missed him.

What's up, Con man?

And then

another beautiful person in our life, the great James Palmer, rejoins.

He the call.

What's up, guys?

I'm so excited.

Hey, you know, James is hot right now.

Yeah, James, you got a, we were on the Rich Eisen show, and your name came up.

And

we probably did last week.

Last week.

Last week.

Last week.

Deep last week.

Because this is Monday, and that was.

That was last week.

Now we're in the new week.

And like, James, immediately,

a compliment to your hair from Rich Eisen on national television.

I appreciate Rich.

I know I went on the YouTubes, and I saw that you guys were sitting there in the chairs, all Burt Reynolds-like or whatever.

It was cool, man.

It was awesome to see the boys out there.

We shared the anecdote on the show, or I should say I shared the anecdote on the show of,

you know, Sean Payton like singling out James Palmer, Jimmy Palmer on the field at the Broncos facility and be like, I love this team, Jimmy.

I love this team.

So I've been spreading the gospel of Palmer after you told that little anecdote.

I appreciate it.

By the way, big time for James Palmer.

He's the new host of the athletic Scoop City with Diane Rossini and Chase Daniel.

That's hot.

Also, 89 is back.

We're back, baby.

Good.

Back with Steve Smith, which is wonderful.

And

we're back with a new platform with Odyssey.

So life is great for all of us.

For proof that I am on the Jersey Shore, I like this tradition.

I think I did this last October when I was here.

I at random downstairs, my dad has his entire record collection.

I guess my mom's record collection, too.

So

it's a long row of about 1,000 records, old LPs.

And I've pulled three at random, okay?

I haven't looked at them yet.

And so here is record number one.

This is 007, the James Bond Thrillers,

the Roland Shaw Orchestra.

How about this?

That's unique.

Tell me your dad was born in 1953 without saying anything more than 1953.

Doctor, no.

Okay.

More like a doctor.

Doctor, yes.

Yes.

Second album pulled at will.

This is a classic.

This is The Who, Who's Next?

Oh, yeah.

Gotta love that.

Pete Townsend, Roger Daltry,

Keith Moon.

And then third,

Freedom Rock, which was released

according to this, the back

1987.

And if you're, what is Freedom Rock?

Well, this is America, isn't it?

So it's Freedom.

You have bands such as The Birds, Jethro Tull,

Santana, Otis Redding, Deep Purple, the Allman Brothers, the Guess Who, Elton John, who's not American, but I guess

Freedom goes beyond our borders sometimes.

So that's cool.

The Moody Blues, and more.

So those are three pulls from my parents' old LP collection.

How about that?

I like it.

The Freedom album of 1987 is probably way better than the 2025 version.

I would gasp to

that record.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Out of Toby Keith.

Sonny and Cher made it on record for side A.

That's wild.

There's four.

That's a four album set.

Oh, hell yeah, bro.

Holy shit.

Jock Jams?

That looks like some of the stuff.

This is what you would prototype for jock jams.

Was that bought off like a television ad, you know, like back in the days?

It looks like it.

Yeah.

They had, it was part of a collection.

Like, they had another one called Senior Prom,

The All-Nighter, and Cruisin', which I think probably was like 50s for people that were of the earlier generation.

The all-nighter does not sound as it's for

children.

It feels like it's for

the adult population.

And the Cruiser, when you put it on your record player in your car, would probably skip quite a bit.

James.

Don't worry, James.

We have 55 more minutes to come back from that, Joe.

All right.

James Palmer, you are a vital part of this annual exercise.

It is the 2025 Hot Butt Rankings.

And

these are my rankings, but they're open, obviously, to interpretation for the entire group.

Hopefully, this goes better than the head coach Siriani rankings, the Siriani line.

I know, Connor, that actually, it only strikes me now that you haven't been on the show since then, and perhaps that was on purpose.

You were so upset about that.

So I'll try to do better.

I guess, dad, don't give up on me, Dad, I guess I'll say.

It wasn't just that one.

It was two weeks before that when you invited us on to talk about

network theme song power rankings.

And then all of a sudden, that's right.

Oh, here's the power rankings.

I don't give a f what Connor thinks, and let's move on.

And so, this is all starting to feel like just like a dictatorship electoral process, you know?

I feel like Connor and I are in a support group that I share a spot on that group.

Okay, that's fair.

That's fair.

Ooh, I just hit the parrot.

That's fair, okay?

And I apologize for that, but that the

game today.

Yeah, no,

the network song power rankings was not subjective.

That was the list, okay?

And then the Siriani line, I was very upfront about that, that

that was just one man's opinion.

And then we never really got to chew up anything else other than the

Siriani dialogue.

In this case, with the great Jimmy Palmer with us, with Connor here and on edge after missing a week of the shows because of anger over my Dalton Siriani comparison, I promise that this is not just me saying, here's the list.

This is us talking together and even making changes.

All right.

This will truly be collaborative.

I promise, okay?

A committee.

Yeah.

And if it doesn't feel that way, please call it out and let's slow it down and get together.

Okay.

This is, but so view this as kind of, this is a more like, here's a placeholder.

Let's have a conversation.

Okay.

Let's start.

as we always do.

We're going to get right into it on this beautiful Monday.

I woke up this morning and I just, I went and

took the dog for a walk.

And I was like, man, I think Mondays get a bad rap.

This has been a great Monday so far.

So I was just like,

oh man, so many restaurants are closed because they close on Mondays, especially on a holiday.

Crazy.

So some disappointment today as well on Monday.

Hot and cold.

At least I'm not the bottom anymore.

That's what she said.

Here we go.

Let's start.

We have this in categories.

Okay.

And if people aren't familiar with the hot butt exercise, it's not nearly as racy as one would think.

It is really just a judgment of the job security of NFL head coaches entering a new season.

And as we know, James Palmer, and this is not a celebration, we have to make it very clear.

I remember we had Schraeger on the show once.

He was like, oh, I don't know how comfortable I am with any of this.

It's like, everybody relax, okay?

We're not celebrating that guys are going to get fired.

We are just talking about that it's a reality that six to eight head coaches are going to get let go between, let's say, October and January.

And we are, it's not even a handicap.

It's just a discussion of like who's in the most danger.

It's a conversation about an unfortunate reality of the league, Jimmy.

Exactly right.

I mean, it's been five or more for the last 14 years.

So you're right.

And what I'm curious when we go down this

little escapade here, is anybody going to say somebody's one and done?

Because we had two one and dones last year.

Who were that?

That's not unusual anymore.

Gerard Mayo and Antonio Pierce.

That's right.

And you know what?

That's a great call.

That's a great call, James, because the first tier we're going to do, we might as well get into it, right, Connor?

Because maybe we need to, I call this the honeymoon phase this tier.

And it's a list of first year head coaches.

and usually because of that they're exempt in a way right and there's taylor and

and travis and uh by the way to once again prove that i am on the east coast here's a here's a new york post it's very old because today's monday this is from last wednesday look at that ta yes

ta yes whoa very nice um just keep the paper around there what a rag uh yes i'm at my parents' house

um the honeymoon phase so these are coaches that I'm not going to put anywhere in the hot butt rankings, but we can have a conversation about maybe who could be in more danger than a typical first-year coach.

Pete Carroll of the Raiders.

This is all these are in alphabetical order, so don't read into where they are on the list.

Liam Cohn of the Jacksonville Jaguars, Aaron Glenn of the New York Jets, Ben Johnson of the Chicago Bears, Kellen Moore of the New Orleans Saints, Brian Schottenheimer of the Dallas Cowboys, and Mike Frabel of the New England Patriots.

Those are the seven

first-year coaches.

And Connor, you got to start it on this one.

Again,

there's a good chance many of these guys survive the first year, but it's no guarantee, as we learned last year.

Yeah, two names I'll flag just because I think that money and contract length speak louder than anything else.

And a lot of times for an owner who's unhappy, this ends up being a financial decision because you end up having to fire a staff of whatever it is, 30 or 40 people who you still owe money to the following season.

And so Pete Carroll, I'll put on on that list, if only because I think his contract was shorter than that of a typical head coach.

And Tom Brady's in there.

If it doesn't go the way that they want it to go, this is an easy one to move on from.

So that's just why I'm flagging it.

And the other one would be Brian Schottenheimer, because if I'm not mistaken, I think he was making less than Mike McCarthy was even.

And this is, again, a contract that is easy to move on from.

If you're Jerry Jones, if the pressure mounts to the point where you have to make a slam dunk hire, these guys are easy to just kind of shove out the door financially.

I would say one thing about Schottenheimer, because his name has come up a lot in these discussions in general, just around everywhere.

It seems like the obvious one.

Jerry Jones, he's aging, and so maybe his lack of patience would play into this.

Only Chan Gailey,

Chan Gailey was fired after two years.

He has never fired a coach after one in his entire run as the owner of the team.

He kept Jason Garrett there for nine plus years.

So

I don't see this as a one and done, but you're right, his contract contract makes it possible if an impatient Jerry Jones finds someone else out there he wants more.

Yeah.

Connor, I'll jump in real quick and just say those were my two immediately, and they were very similar reasons.

I did a comparing these new head coaches, by the way, to TV shows on my Scoop City show, and

I called Brian Schottenheimer's situation the Sopranos, and he is Dr.

Melfie

trying to figure out what's going on in this family.

We're going to talk about the owner's volatility in this list, and that's part of the connection to Jerry.

He does love controlling the head coach, and he definitely has control over Shodi.

And then Pete, something could,

I don't want to say something could happen to Pete.

He turns 74 weeks.

Jesus.

But I'm just saying his face turns 20.

But

I do think like...

That is an organization that Tom Brady and company have been very open about, that they have no patience.

Like, none.

Like, this should be turned around quickly.

And they've been very open about that.

I think Pete will

is part of that and part of the reason why they hired him.

But those are the only two names to me that jump out at all.

I think everybody else is in stone.

Yeah, I think,

yes, Justin.

I'm going to jump in with a counterpoint and just throw, this is based on the conversation we had from around the NFC, but Ketlin Moore, if the Saints have an absolute disaster season where they go one in 16 and Ketlin Moore doesn't look like a head coach and they finally decide to do a hardcore full reset from top to bottom and clear the books and the coaching staff, I could see a scenario where Kellen Moore would be.

It seems unfair.

I think this year's the reset.

I think this year's fair.

It's very rarely fair.

When you're one and done, it's very rarely fair.

It's like outside things have underdone underfunded.

Was it fair to David Coley when he had a clearly tanking Texans team that he only got one 16?

David Culley also signed a two-year contract.

And so I think he knew what he was walking into.

I think it was honestly Connor so he could call his dad.

I'm not joking.

And be like, I'm a head coach in the NFL.

And then once that was accomplished, David Cully was super cool with just riding off the bottom.

He actually did a nice job though.

He won four games with a really bad team.

Father and son stuff, man.

Yeah.

Just to counter your Kellen's thing.

When I did reporting on the Saints job heading into last year's cycle, the whole theme of that job was showmanship.

Like, they know that this is going to be a bad season, and they wanted somebody who Dennis Allen to them didn't represent someone who could sell that to the fan base.

And I don't know why Darren Rizzi couldn't because I love Darren Rizzi.

I thought Darren Rizzi did a nice job, but

I think that Kellem Moore represents

ever, ever, ever, ever, okay, ever.

Thank you, Justin.

I think that Kellem Moore represents like, hey, he's young.

He's He's going to be here for a little while.

And so,

yeah,

I'm not worried about that one.

It is a holiday for Justin.

Yeah, it is very much so.

It is Monday.

Yeah, the Pete Carroll one, his age, as you said, the fact that it is an organization, a little bit of flux in terms of the power dynamic.

I'm curious.

Like, here's a little update, by the way.

So, obviously, you have,

you know, Mark Davis is, it's pretty clear that he's tried to show that he's a more patient man typically than his father was known as, but he's also Mark Davis and he's an unpredictable human being.

And then you have the Tom Brady of it all.

And here's a report from Andrew Marchand, our old buddy.

The Brady rules are basically done.

The NFL will allow Tom Brady, Fox Sports' top TV game analyst and Las Vegas Raiders minority owner, to take part in production meetings with coaches and teams this season.

Sources briefed on the decision told the athletic.

You may remember in Brady's rookie broadcasting year, he was banned from these information gathering sessions for nearly the whole season.

The rules were in place due to his ownership stake.

The NFL relented for the Super Bowl.

Brady's play-by-play partner, Kevin Burkhart, and other crew members would inform Brady of what was said in the meetings.

The sessions with coaches and players can reveal nuggets that can be used during the broadcast.

They take place over Zoom and or in person.

Finally, Brady is still expected to be barred from team practices as he was last year.

Fox Sports and NFL declined declined to comment.

Connor, I know you've been hot about this one and just the idea of Brady getting preferential treatment in general.

What does this tell you?

What does this mean to you when you heard this?

This is, I'm going to go back to a phone call I had with one of my heroes, the great Peter King, and he said, Connor, this little bailiwick that we've got here is a harbinger for society at large, and we need to protect it.

And he's 100%

right because, like,

societally at large, it's like, oh, yeah, I guess we don't need the Consumer Protection Bureau.

Who cares if someone has my Social Security number?

And we're falling into this state of idiocy.

And the NFL should be the last bastion of rules and rules enforced.

You're the owner of another team.

There's no way in hell you're allowed to come into my facility.

You're the owner of a team that was on another team that was accused of videotaping practices before a Super Bowl.

Get the F off of my lot.

Stay the F off of my lot and don't ever come back here again.

Like that needs to be the attitude.

I'm sorry.

It's cool that he's announcing these games and you can say whether he's good or bad about it.

But the fact remains that he was one of the original players that was part of this subterfuge operation.

And now he gets to just walk into the meeting room with God knows what, no restrictions.

So I think it's absolutely laughable.

And I think it's part and parcel to larger problems where we're just like, oh, who cares?

Until we realize that a credit card company can charge us like 41% interest if we exceed a certain amount.

And now we're penniless.

Like, this is what the NFL, this is where the NFL is going.

Connor in like a big short sequel would be Connor or NFL penniless.

Connor, why do you think the NFL, why like have this in place a year ago and be so strident about it?

And it's a talking point all year.

And then now they just change the rule.

Like,

what's changed?

What's different?

Why suddenly is he allowed to do this?

Especially if they're playing the Raiders and they're very good the first year.

Yeah, that's it.

And that's the point, right?

Like, we knew he wasn't going to be good at it because he couldn't go into the building.

And all the prep work that he did the commercials on, bragging about how hard he worked, like, clearly didn't come through.

And so now we're going to let him into the facility just so he can fill the dead air spots with platitudes that all these announcers get from spending weeks in the booth.

You know what I'm talking about?

Like, what is he going to get out of it versus the damage that it's going to do to the NFL?

Now, during dead air, during a game, he's going to be able to be like, well, that offensive coordinator is really great.

I talked to him this week.

Who gives a shit?

Like, you shouldn't have to do it.

You shouldn't be allowed to do that.

You're the owner of the Raiders.

Of all the people on this, I think I'm the only one that has been in those production meetings.

Woo!

Wow.

No, no, you and Justin.

Well, also,

Justin as well, but you and Justin.

Yes.

Justin and I.

So, Justin was very high at the time, though.

Yeah, I've never been the color guy.

I have been the sideline reporter for NFL games

at the old NFL network.

And these, just to take you inside these meetings, just because we can paint the picture that Connor is so frustrated with and wants to throw paint all over, is you sit in like a conference room with the head coach for however long he wants to go.

And the length of the head coach will determine how many other people you get.

But usually both coordinators, a couple of the star players, always the quarterback.

And it's a really candid conversation.

I'll be honest.

It is much more honest than any media availability that anybody in that room ever does during the week.

You can ask questions and it's up to the group to kind of determine what they can use on the air and what is kind of like just, hey, this was said to me in just.

I can kind of put it together myself.

You don't really want to directly quote some of the things that are said in those rooms.

But to Connor's point, it is a very honest place, like really honest.

And it's probably the most honest these individuals are somewhat on the record in the NFL.

So if you want to take that for what these meetings are,

that is what they are.

I am curious, though, like, Connor, do you think him walking around a facility, he's going to like, is he planting bugs?

Like, is he going to like drop something in the fern?

He was a patriot.

Yeah.

So keep that in mind.

I mean, like, what do you, what would you gather?

Just how they do business?

Here's the perfect example, I think.

And I think that you nailed it.

And this is what I was going to bring up: is let's say you're in a production meeting during the week and you're talking to the quarterback about his wide receiver and the quarterback says something that just leads you to believe that that relationship is a little bit off for whatever reason right or um this cornerback hasn't been practicing and the coach says well really it's because of this there's nothing to prevent him and no actual track record existing of him to walk over to Pete Carroll two weeks later and be like, hey, you know, Jamar Chase and Joe Burrow aren't on the same page.

Like, why don't you play him this way?

And then that way they have to throw the ball over there.

Hey, that cornerback is actually kind of has a knee injury, so we should throw it to him.

We should throw at him every other play until he gets exhausted.

Nothing's going to stop him from doing that.

And Tom Brady.

It's a great advantage.

It's a total advantage.

And he's.

It's an advantage that the other teams don't have.

He's making a career out of it.

They're bunkers, and you're allowing the enemy into the bunker, and then he can go spread information.

And why?

Because he's Tom Brady.

And that's what Tom Brady is.

Because he's so

bad at it last year that we're trying to make him like,

that's what's so ridiculous about it, right?

You were so bad at your job that now you're getting special treatment to be less bad at your job.

That it is totally deleted.

I hear you, Connor.

And it's just these big corporations, hundreds of millions of dollars together, and they're all in cahoots.

And it's

all gross, but burn the whole thing down.

This is what the dark night was about.

Dark Knight rises.

Let's call a game.

Let's take a break.

Let's take a break.

By the way, Brady is entering the second season of a 10-year, $375 million contract.

So with that amount of money, Fox can lean on the NFL and say, hey, you got to do us a solid here.

This investment blows.

Follow the money.

All right, let's take a break.

When we get back, we're going to move on to the next tier, where things

really start to get to the nitty-gritty of this conversation.

Hotbuts 25, not what you think.

We're recording this on a Monday.

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All right, we are back.

Okay, so we went through the honeymoon phase and yes, somebody could get picked off.

In fact, the odds might be that someone gets picked off there.

I want to go to a list now where nobody's going to get picked off.

Okay, I feel these are mortal locks.

Barring some type of act of God

or email scandal or something like that, these are men that no matter how the season goes are still in high esteem in their organization.

What, Connor?

Promise me you put Nick Siriani on this list, Dan.

Don't tell me that you didn't put him on this list.

I doubt he did.

I didn't wait.

All right, throw up the list.

Here we go.

Remember, alphabetical order.

But I love that he's last in the alphabetical order.

Joy Lions.

Dan Campbell, Los Angeles Chargers, Jim Harbaugh.

Baltimore Ravens, John Harbaugh.

Green Bay Packers, Matt LaFleur.

Los Angeles Rams, Sean McVay, Vikings, Kevin O'Connell, Denver Broncos, Sean Payton.

I love this team, Jimmy.

I love this team.

Kansas City Chiefs, Andy Reid.

Houston Texans, D'Amiko Ryans.

Washington Commanders, Dan Quinn.

San Francisco 49ers, Kyle Shanahan.

And yes, Philadelphia Eagles head coach,

coach of the defending as of Thursday, Super Bowl champion, Philadelphia Eagles, Nick Siriani, in my death-proof category.

Oh, what?

How big?

How magnanimous of the old Seusser?

My head's not in the clouds.

I know who's safe and who's not.

I was talking about who's good and who sucks and who's right in the middle.

That's a different conversation.

Nick Siriani.

Nick Siriani, the Eagles might have, Connor, a bad year this year, but ownership is going to be like, we can't fire this motherfucker.

He won the Super Bowl last year and went to the Super Bowl two years before.

We got to give him another year.

For that reason, he's death-proof with the rest of these guys.

Anybody disagree with any of these names on this list?

I got one thing I want to say.

Go.

I agree with the list.

I think everybody deserves to be on there.

I think everybody's firmly entrenched there.

There's one name, maybe I'll play a little game here.

There's one name that's hinted with leaving before.

And if they win a Super Bowl this year, would they step away?

Well, just James, I don't want to step on your point, but these are, I'm talking about hot butts, dismissals, fire.

Oh, well, that's not the same.

Yeah, not the same as walking away.

Okay, but I'll stop there and just say Sean McFeek and walk away.

Right.

I got one name that this would be untoward,

but if the Ravens

were axed again in the early playoffs, I wonder if it's more of like we just want to kind of re-engineer what the Ravens are and maybe John Harbaugh.

I don't think they should.

I mean, he'd get another job in two seconds, but

just if they disappoint.

Well, before Lamar came,

we've been doing the podcast long enough.

I remember where he was a name that it felt like he was in danger.

But ever since Lamar got there, I mean, they've been just relentlessly successful, right?

So I would think that to your point, though, you're saying if like a certain level of like the Bashoti family, they become exhausted by the playoff failures and they decide they need to make a change.

And it's not going to be the GM who's bringing in a lot of great players and it's not going to be the quarterback, certainly.

Maybe it's the head coach.

Yeah, like all I'm sort of saying is there, I don't, I don't, like, it's low percentage, but there maybe are a couple teams out there that have basically Super Bowl expectations, and there's an exhaustion if for the fifth, sixth year in a row, you don't reach it, and Harbaugh's one of those coaches.

Unlikely.

Been there 18 years.

Right.

Wow.

18.

Yeah.

What percentage would you put it at, though, Susse?

That happens.

Yeah.

So death proof is a good category for him.

But to your point, like, if there's, all right, how about you, Connor?

Name one guy on this list where you could.

Screw it up.

Can't even cook up a set.

Can you cook up some type type of plausible scenario where a change happens?

Can you do it?

No.

To James's point, I have maybe two names on here that would leave on their own volition, but no,

this is the creme de la creme of NFL head coaches right here.

All right.

So, good.

So far, I don't have Connor angry.

I kind of want to get Connor angry.

Who's the other name that you have said he's not?

Who's the other name that you have that would walk away?

Is it Shanahan?

Yeah, I always thought that he might not finish his career there.

Yeah, I always kind of got the sense that he might not be a lifelong San Francisco Ford Niner.

And Quinn's the only other guy on that list that, you know, entering last season, I would never imagine he would be on a bulletproof list.

If, let's say, everything that went right in 24 goes wrong in 25, Quinn still gets a third year based on the NFC title game, right?

No doubt.

Quarterback will do it for you.

Yeah.

Gravy.

One last counterpoint.

This team.

Kellen Moore.

This team didn't do as well last year as they did in the previous season.

Yes.

They

fired members of the coaching staff heading into this year.

If things continue to trend in the wrong direction, could ownership slash general management look to make a change?

I'm talking about D'Imico Ryans and the Texans.

Oh, wow.

He's beloved, I feel like.

They love

He's home as a counterpoint.

Cheap-ish ownership, and D'Amico got a huge contract that was unorthodoxically long at the time.

Like it was, it went above.

I think it was like a six-year deal.

So he's there.

Two straight playoff wins, two years in a row.

Divisional round.

Okay.

86 and 86 in his six years in Houston.

Has he been around that long?

That sounds like him as a player.

Oh, yeah.

That went up.

Welcome to

the podcast.

Hello, sports.

It's like, wow.

It's like, he got a job at 27.

That's amazing.

People should be able to do that.

You know, somebody's got a case of the Mondays, you know?

Let's see.

2021.

This is his third year.

Yep.

Yeah, 20 and 14, two back-to-back, 10-win seasons.

One a playoff game.

He's good.

He's good.

All right.

Next tier.

Let's see.

Now maybe it gets a little more interesting, or maybe I just nailed it this year.

I call this category, I feel good.

Da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

All right, wrong James Brown in the photo, but a great photo of the broadcaster, James Brown.

I originally wanted the big, sweaty soul legend, James Brown.

You know, the meme that's out there?

He's just full of cocaine.

He looks like a monster where he's just caked in sweat.

And yeah, he has, he's 50% cocaine.

But couldn't really find a good ones.

But I like this picture of James Brown, the famous broadcaster.

So I use that instead.

For the YouTube audience, sound off in the comments and let me know.

Let me know what you think about that decision on the production side of things.

I feel.

Can I just say it would have been better if you didn't describe it at all?

If you just went right with it,

I feel to see if anybody noticed.

Yeah.

I feel good.

I feel good, which means, and this is only a list of four names because they're kind of in an in-between world where I don't see them as ironclad.

They're not death-proof, but I don't see them as necessarily in danger either.

But that doesn't mean they can't be in danger.

Buccaneers, Todd Bowles, Sean McDermott of the Bills, Mike McDonald of the Seahawks.

And yes, now I'm curious if there's pushback on this one.

I have Mike Tomlin of the Steelers in the I feel good territory.

I would almost guarantee in the years we've done this exercise, Ceci, he's always been in the

death proof category or whatever we've called that category.

Do you think it was fair to drop him down in this season or too much of a rush to judgment?

Yes, I do because I think that the Steelers have been mired in milquetoast middle worlds for a long time.

And so maybe that's a lot of Steelers fans, and we know a couple, they are the ones that seem the hottest to get rid of Tomlin when things go wrong.

It's been a long time since they've had playoff glory.

He's a great coach, but it could be the kind of thing where we're ready to move.

But that is an ownership group that has had, what, three coaches in their history?

So, you know, they're not like a Pol, it's not Jimmy Haslam in Pittsburgh over there.

So it would take a lot.

I always wanted to push back on the narrative that, you know, because everyone talks about this team not having a quarterback.

And now this idea is, okay, now Tomlin has a quarterback.

And if he doesn't win, then you can start talking about pushing him out the door.

Aaron Rodgers really isn't like a quarterback in air quotes.

And it was an ownership decision to keep Ben Rothesberger for like two straight years after he clearly demonstrated that he couldn't play quarterback.

And so a lot of this is not on Tomlin.

And I would like to see him with a runway of an actual capable or pseudo-capable franchise quarterback.

And so, you know, and I know we're a long way from that, maybe two or three drafts from now away from that.

But I don't want to rush to judgment just because, oh, this team wins nine games with Aaron Rodgers Rodgers this year.

I'm not sure if he's feeling good.

I'm not sure if everybody's feeling good.

And I'm going to continue the Mike Tomlin thing.

And I understand what Connor's saying, and I think it's accurate.

I was also at this playoff game in Baltimore.

And I was at their game, I think, in Philly towards the end of the season.

And I remember people in Philly being like, this team is no juice, like at all.

They know they're not going to win.

They got mowed over, if you remember, in Baltimore with no life to them whatsoever.

My comp to this, and just it would just be the idea of they're all in on 2025.

And I mean all in.

Their players are using it as tremendous leverage for their contracts that they are all in on 2025.

But the other part is, is there just a conversation in a room at the end of the season that just goes,

I think it's time.

Like I just I just think it's time.

Like my comp would be, and it did bottom out the last year in this comp, but it's very similar, is Andy Reid in Philadelphia.

That was 14 seasons, three losing seasons.

I mean, just utter domination of the division.

The last time anybody's really dominated the division was Andy Reid.

And, you know, it bottomed out due to some off-the-field things, obviously, with his son passing away at training camp and off-the-field stuff for Andy.

And they go, I think they only had four wins that last year.

But if you remember the departure and like the standing ovation he got when he like left from the players, and that's one of the rare occurrences where it worked for both sides.

I mean, Philly's won two Super Bowls since.

Andy Reid's had tremendous success in Kansas City.

I could see Tomlin being part of a mutual agreement that it's just time the message has gone stale.

It happens with every coach, even the best of the best, like Mike Tomlin.

And he goes and has tremendous success like Connor said, with a real quarterback somewhere, and the Steelers completely reset, and maybe they find their way again.

I could see that being a possible scenario if this all-in approach in 2025 just maybe equates to his first losing season.

You can tell that there's been at least some thought on that avenue, James, because I think you made a good point.

Whenever a couple jobs that made sense for him have come up, his name has come up.

And whether that was the commander's job initially under new ownership, it's like, okay, whenever they move on from Daniel Snyder, it might have been the very end of Daniel Snyder and he needed to fix things and fix public perception.

Tomlin's name came up.

His name came up when James Franklin got the Penn State job, when Lincoln Riley got the USC job.

And so now that you're starting to see this bandied about a little bit, I do think it probably does represent just a little loosening of the brick wall, maybe.

I want to have a quick conversation about Sean McDermott, not because he's not done a great job there, but

the more the conversation of the exhaustion of like the bills getting over the hump or not getting over the hump.

And if that's totally a thing on the outside of people like Cesi as an example, Mark, not saying you're in the wrong at all, but I know if you've expressed that opinion, like you know, shit or get off the pot, basically, with the bills.

Is there any scenario where they have a

season where they take a step back or they just fall short again in January?

And there is any conversations in that facility about should we make a change to get over the hump, you know, and impatience wins out.

Hmm.

I put it in that same category with the John Harbaugh situation, right?

Like it's sort of like the expectations are literally nothing less than a Super Bowl win.

You know,

he's,

there's been some stuff in the past couple years with McDermott and the Bills that, you know, there's that tell-all piece that were negative.

They were negative things.

But it's like, in general, that's one of the most stable teams in the league.

And so you...

You're referring to the 9-11 speech?

Yeah.

There's that, but there were other elements to that article as well, where it was just like there seemed to be some problems, but at the same time, he recovered from that.

I think they'd have to, they'd have to, something bad would have to happen for him to be gone.

Because what, who are you going to get that's better?

And they have to move on from the GM as well, probably.

Unlikely, that's none of that's happening, I don't think.

I will say this: there was a high-profile coaching candidate.

You got to have something to bitch about

that had that job

on the very kind of outer reaches of his dream scenarios when he was entering the carousel a year ago at the beginning of the season, where it was like, okay, I'm going to outline the jobs that I'm going to attack, that I'm going to market myself for.

And I know that was at least in some people's pipe dream scenarios.

So it felt maybe just wobbly enough that you would allow yourself to dream about coaching there.

I do know that's true.

People dream of Buffalo.

Like they dream of living

the long term in Buffalo.

I get it.

No, I'm kind of with both of you guys.

What if, and just I'll throw this out there, what if the season ends again and I've covered every single one of them by losing to Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid?

And it's like we need somebody to change our just,

our thought process that this is not a thing.

Like we can get over this.

And do we need that to be somebody different?

Side note, by the way, real quick, Sean McDermott told us, you know, had a speech on Hard Knocks where he talked about a coach throwing a chair.

Do you remember that?

Anyone else watch Hard Knox?

We've not been completists on Hard Knocks.

I've been struggling with

Ceciliano.

I'll tell Andrew if you don't watch his Hard Knocks podcast.

He was on the show last week.

He texted me today asking for tickets to see you.

Well, apparently Ceciliano was on hard knocks.

I didn't know that.

That's cool.

He does the Hard Knox podcast.

Oh, the podcast.

Yeah, he does the podcast.

I'm sure that's a a fine product.

We're nothing negative.

I want to have Hard Knocks podcast.

Maybe there's an alumni event that

me and Andrew can, you know, kibbits over one of these days.

You know,

alarm.

Perhaps, thievery, whatever you want to call it.

Go ahead.

All right, let's take a break here, and then we're going to get into the real nitty-gritty hot butts.

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All right.

We have now gone through the first-year coaches.

We've gone through the death-proof coaches.

We've even gone through the coaches that,

barring catastrophe, are almost certainly back in 2026.

Now,

we move on to more dangerous territory.

Now, the flames, the flames are turned on.

This is the category I call

the Chandler Bing Memorial.

Could I be any more nervous?

Tear.

Too soon.

That was a choice, Dan.

What?

Well, I mean, he just, you know,

he left the earth, and I thought, you know, under duress.

Chandler Bing didn't leave the earth.

I know.

Okay.

Matthew Perry, the actor who played Chandler Bing.

I mean, there's no connection.

I get that aspect of it, but sure.

I am not dancing on the grave of actor Matthew Perry.

Nor do I think that you are.

I just say I think it jarred us.

It jarred us to some degree.

Could I be any more offended?

Here, these are men who,

if they are not nervous about their job security, they should be.

Again, alphabetical order.

Brian Callahan.

Brian Callahan, did you know?

Callie.

Callie.

Did you know that?

Did you know he was the head coach?

He is.

Head coach of the Titans.

Brian Callahan, Dave Canales of the Carolina Panthers.

Raheem Morris, Morris, still younger after all these years, Atlanta Falcons.

Mark's boy, Stafansky of the Cleveland Browns, and Zach Taylor of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Mark, do you believe that this is the right tier for your team's head coach?

For Mike, he's too hot to be fired, yet I could see it.

Haslam has been surprisingly

chill with what's gone on under Barry and Stefansky.

Like a lot has happened.

But this is a two-time coach of the year.

And I feel like behind the scenes, with all they've done with Deshaun Watson, how poorly that went, and that was not just on Stefansky, if it was on him at all.

And now this year you go in with this quarterback situation where they've kind of saddled him with a rough environment year after year.

And is it his fault?

Is he the guy?

Like, I think other teams would want him as their coach.

I think it was Arith Hassan last week who pointed out that, I don't know, someone is the media is carrying a lot of water for Stefansky, and it's always very quick to say anything that's bad with the Browns is not the head coach's fault.

It's everyone else's decision making, and that's an unhealthy thing, obviously, if that's true.

Or maybe if you're leadership with the Browns, you're sick of hearing that and you're being like, this guy is part of the reason we've had struggles as well.

But I also do think he is someone that would be if he got on the open market.

And we just talked about the buffalo bills if the bills uh had an issue uh this upcoming season and took a step back and stefanski was suddenly available i think stefansky would get a job very quickly a second shot i agree um so i just wonder though if the browns he's had so many bad years with the teams and the coach of the year that's all great he's also won one playoff game and he wasn't even the coach on the sidelines for the game so it's like it's not like he's he should be someone seen as sainted um i feel like this is like the territory he should be in anything is possible with the browns when they are continually wed to chaos.

So I like if he deserves to be on this list, absolutely.

My quick two cents is this.

I'm just thinking about what you guys would do as a kid that was born and raised in Philadelphia.

You're going to take a kid, Sean McDermott, from LaSalle Prep, and you're going to shove him out and replace him with another kid, Kevin Stefanski, from the prep, St.

Joe's prep, and swap them.

Those are rivals.

Philadelphia, rifle high schools, those guys went to.

Philadelphia would be a mess.

That's swap that I ended up making.

Yeah.

No, listen, I would say this.

I was on the phone this week with a general manager who was like,

I feel bad for Kevin Stefanski.

I think he is an unbelievable coach.

Now, to Mark's point, I don't know how much of this, whatever you want to call it, that's gone on in Cleveland this afternoon of years falls on him.

I do look at them trading away the number two pick for the future capital in 2026.

Do him and Andrew Berry make that move?

thinking they won't be there in 2026.

That's part of my thinking, just that like, like, hey,

we're going to be here next year so we can make this move to kind of flip over an aging roster, honestly.

Good point.

I tend to agree with you guys that given the, it seems like expectations are obviously low on the outside with the Browns.

And internally, I think they see this as a development year.

But they went 3-14 last year.

Not many coaches survive another 3-14, if that's what we're heading toward.

Now, he could be different because they could view him as someone that's an outlier in this type of conversation.

But if you have back-to-back seasons that are that rough, usually there's a conversation to be had internally where they're like, okay, we have the first overall pick or we have two first-round picks and we're going to trade up.

We're going to get our new quarterback and we're going to get a new this and a new that.

And they just want to reboot the machine.

I wonder if that, if they might just go that route.

And Sean McDermott's available.

Hey, Deshaun Watson's coming back.

No, Deshaun Watson.

Connor, what do you think?

The Brian Callahan one stands out like a sore thumb to me on this list.

I think he kicks over to a more serious category of a guy who has to perform well this year and this year in particular.

And the reason why I say that is because we have the looming opening of the new Nissan Stadium in 2027.

I am curious how well advanced season ticket sales and PSLs are going for that.

I'm not exactly sure, but I don't know if they're going great.

And you have a new franchise quarterback that if he is not a bona fide star by the time that that stadium opens, and you are not an established head coach that has some sort of a personality that invites people to buy tickets to these games, if you are going to be there.

And I think that the Titans have to do some serious public relations work if this is a bad season.

And I think the head coaching position is an easy and cost-effective way to start that.

Mark.

Mark, are you laughing because Connor has a dim view of the Titans on the Heed the Call podcast?

That.

And

I love on this Monday morning that we can watch the exact position of the sun outside of Connor's window based on where it shines on his head.

Do the math, bitches, if you don't believe us.

Classic Monday sun scenario.

Justin, what do you think about this?

So I have some sources, actually, on this one about the safety of Brian Callahan.

I have done a little bit of digging here.

My understanding is that Barring a disaster season specifically from Cam Ward, Callahan is likely safe.

The Titans know what kind of perception they have, what Amy Adams strunk has become with the constant hiring and firing of coaches and then GMs and then coaches and then GMs back and forth.

And she wants to get rid of that.

The Titans want stability.

There is a world where they would favor stability over the best quote-unquote head coach situation.

And I do think defensive coordinator Denard Wilson, if the season goes terribly and Cam Ward is good, the reason it goes terribly is the defense is terrible and that Wilson could be scapegoated in this scenario.

But I think barring a disaster Cam Ward-specific season, Callahan will be back in 2026.

So I actually think this is the right tier because that definitely could be a scenario.

Do I expect it?

Obviously, I'm biased and no, I love Cam Ward.

That makes sense.

But if he's bad, then if it's year two and the results are very bad back-to-back years and the number one overall pick has a bad first year, that is the perfect recipe for a coach to get whacked.

But that all depends.

We'll see.

Justin said it perfectly about the Titans' stability over the best.

Yeah,

that's where we're at.

But it's not necessarily about wins and losses for Callahan.

It's about how does the quarterback look?

Yes, that's going to be very important.

Connor, you want to put a button on this one?

I mean, the fact that Justin's like,

the undertone of this is like that Cam Ward's going to to be so great that this isn't like we shouldn't even consider moving him to the other category is ludicrous.

He could very easily have a terrible season.

I said that.

I said that almost word for word.

All right.

I love it.

It's going to be a great season.

I can't wait.

All right.

Now.

All right.

But I hear you.

Hello, Justin.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Justin, can you reveal your sources, please?

No.

That good job.

That was a test.

Journalism.

All right.

Finally.

And I hear you on that, Connor.

He is

right on the edge there of this final category.

Do we want to have a quick Zach Taylor conversation?

Because I was thinking maybe he does deserve to be in this tier, but that's not how the Cincinnati Bengals do business.

And maybe from that perspective, James, he should be in the I feel good category because I'm head coach for the Bengals and they're not going to spend extra money on purpose.

They won't even fly Boomer Asaias into the Ring of Honor ceremony and put him up in anything higher than the Comfort Inn.

Like that, that might just the circumstance around Taylor beyond just his abilities as a coach or the team's success might bump him up a tier.

I'm having some second thoughts with Taylor.

Well, yeah, I mean, go ask Marvin Lewis how good he felt for an extended period of time.

It was very pleasurable, I think, for Marvin just to kind of hang out.

He's done, I think this contract's done after the 2026 season.

So if you did something after this year, it's one year.

His side of the ball is obviously far superior to the other.

Oftentimes, though, when you see a coordinator get let go, it's the sign of some impatience or we need to get things going.

And they obviously move in Al Golden for Lou Annarumo, who was a real hot name, by the way, for a minute there about a head coaching potential hire.

I could see with the contract and them going, we have this borough window and how do we maximize this borough window?

Would a change help that?

We'll see, but I don't think he's all that much in jeopardy.

Okay.

And Canales, I would almost put him, so we'll just touch on him as well.

He seems like in a similar category to Brian Callahan.

The quarterback is actually entering year three, but also a number one overall pick.

Bryce Young ended last year well, which I think might have, you know.

helped save Canales' job.

But he's going to have to continue to see, the quarterback's going to continue to have to live up to the promise of his drafts selection, or Canales is probably going to suffer for it, one would think.

I would put him in the Stefansky category, too hot to be fired.

Oh, like physically hot.

Yeah, like we can't move on from it.

We can't move on from the attractive factor here.

I see.

I see.

I thought that's what you meant earlier, but now it's very clear.

It's been underlined.

Well, it's settled.

It seems like it's settled, though.

I will say this.

Like, I don't know if anybody else has heard that.

Like,

it was touchy early.

Like, i don't know if this is the guy it seems like it settled into place a little bit more but obviously with with an owner that throws drinks at people crazy owner yeah i mean honestly anything's possible with david tepper it really is and an owner that you can't you know we can't overstate the fact that like he was the one who stepped in and said it's bryce young over cj stroud and i think that he needs to legitimize that more than anybody because he knows how attached he is to that

and dave canalis has done a really nice job of of building an offense for Bryce Young.

And like Zach Taylor, maybe has that coordinator room where he can make some changes on the defensive side of the ball.

Or I think Ezra Everett deserves to go somewhere else and just not coach that defense.

And so maybe there's a mutual parting of ways.

Like that guy needs to be with a good roster because he's awesome.

But yeah, so I think that's something to think about, too.

It is a part of this conversation, right?

Like also who, what teams or what coaches are saddled with a very unpredictable

and dunderheaded owner at times.

Like, I'm that's the number one factor, I think.

Jacksonville, Rashad Khan is unpredictable.

Obviously, Woody Johnson with the Jets.

Obviously,

the trucker, Jimmy Haslam with the Browns, and I would say the lunatic in Carolina.

I mean, those are

four big ones.

I didn't even make it a season.

I mean, he didn't even make it one season

a couple of years ago.

Hmm.

And I would say as we get to the last category,

let's look at it now.

This is the category, this is the one with the most danger.

Now, this is when the flames are tickling the butt and they're hitting the cheeks, and they might even catch a little butthole.

It's a bad situation.

Maybe a little ball sack.

It's a bad situation, okay?

It's as bad as you can imagine.

This is an award-winning podcast, by the way.

Is there a deceased celebrity involved?

No, actually, Whoopi Goldberg is going to live forever.

Odome Brown and Ghost.

Here we go.

The category is called...

Molly, you in Danger Girl.

Molly, you in Danger Girl.

Odime Brown and Ghost.

Underrated.

Patrick Swayze, rest in peace.

Look at Whoopi Nerds.

Yeah.

Looking great.

You're into it, Mark.

I like it.

Youth.

Brian Dable, New York Giants.

Jonathan Gannon, Arizona Cardinals.

Another maybe crazy owner, if you want to talk crazy owners.

Mike McDaniel of the Minnesota

of the Miami Dolphins and Shane Steichen of the Indianapolis Colts.

These four men

are, more than anyone else, in great danger as the season kicks off.

And

I believe at least two of these guys get whacked, and it's possible all four.

Where do you come down on this, Palmer?

I'm going to do some moving.

I think Jonathan Gannon's in a pretty safe spot.

I agree.

Really?

I mean, I think he goes 4-13 in the first year.

He goes 8-9 last year.

That's a big jump.

I added time to spend some, I had a chance to spend some time with people there and talk to them.

I don't know if Connor had heard this at all from people around the league, but like, even though the wins weren't there over the last two years, you could feel a different team.

You didn't enjoy playing them.

They were tough.

This was the first offseason, literally the first offseason since he's been there that they feel like they could properly be aggressive in free agency, that they could go and try to put a roster together and be a little aggressive towards guys like Josh Sweat.

Or, you know, I mean, you go make a couple of moves.

This all hinges on the quarterback.

And I have people there tell me that.

Like this hinges on Kyler Murray.

Like I went to their joint practice against Denver, which should be one of the best defenses in football.

And

Marvin Harrison Jr.

was open constantly and he was overthrown.

constantly.

Like those two just do not seem like they're on the same page.

I think a lot of this hinges on Kyler.

I do think the team is better.

I've talked to some other teams around the league.

I think the front seven is actually going to be pretty good there in Arizona.

I'd slide Jonathan Gannon out of the group.

I agree.

We talk about the Cardinals a lot on the show.

You do?

Yeah, because

last year I kind of became fascinated with them, and they were 6-4 at one point.

They led the division in scoring.

Monty Austin Ford, I think, is a quality GM.

There's a plan there.

They have found a way to stockpile draft picks.

They've made some good picks.

I wonder if someone like Kyler Murray becomes the scapegoat where they trade or move him in some fashion and keep the plan with a new quarterback.

I think that Jonathan Gannon is not the problem there.

Like the team is growing.

So this is an important season.

I'd like to see them make the playoffs, but it would be weird to start over all over again with the coach and GM.

Why?

Because I think it's weird.

Because I see where they went from two seasons ago to last season was genuine growth.

They've added a lot of, there are a lot lot of new parts there.

They were absolutely, they beat people up at times last year.

They were 6-4 at one point.

Then they fell off a cliff.

And they've done that every year since 2017.

So I guess that's my counter.

They were 4-13 in year one and then started out okay last year and then went off a cliff.

I'm just saying if this season does not go well, That will be three years of no playoffs.

Very few coaches survive that.

And I don't see them.

And we're going to do our season preview episode unless you think the cardinals are making the playoffs in the nfc uh we're entering uncharted territory that he would keep his job three years without applying i think they are but that's me predicting that we don't know how that's going to go but

you know there's a lot happening with that organization the cards and the dance i like that all right stay tuned for uh wednesday's episode connor

So to Mark's point, I think that it shouldn't be overlooked that the amount of dead money that the Cardinals incur on Kyler Murray's contract cuts in half after this season.

It's about $100 million.

It goes down to $57 million

after the start of next year's league season.

So is this a situation where Jonathan Ganning can just play well enough around the rim where he gets one more crack at it?

That kind of dead money is not bad if you have a quarterback on a rookie contract.

I think he deserves it.

And when you talk about falling off a cliff, That was something that was always associated with Kyler Murray and Cliff Kingsbury, but really just looks to be a Kyler Murray problem at this point.

Now we have two head coaches, sample size, that I think they might effectively be able to put this off on the quarterback if it doesn't go well.

I know they like Jonathan Gannon, and I know that Jonathan Gannon's done a lot of work to try to do this the right way.

So, I don't know.

And I'm not a Gannon guy,

but

I think he deserves to be moved back into the other category.

Connor sees a Jonathan Gannon PowerPoint presentation at the end of the year.

Next slide.

This is what Kyler did.

Next slide.

This is what we plan on doing.

Next slide.

To Michael Bentley.

Yeah, I'm just looking at like,

again, because it does matter, the wave the previous season ended after their bye week, lost, lost, loss,

beat the Patriots,

loss, loss.

And then they beat a 49ers team that was barely even the NFL anymore, starting Joshua Dobbs at quarterback to get to 8-9.

So it was a bad ending to the year.

It was really bad.

And if they get out of the gate slow this year, I think the heat's going to get turned up under him.

And Kyler Murray both.

We talked about that with Jordan Rodrigue.

Like, Kyler Murray becomes a potentially tradable asset next year.

And so they both have to prove it this year.

Or I think changes are coming in the desert.

But

I actually think this list is ripe for the picking in terms of having some interesting conversations here.

So just very quickly, Brian Dable, right?

And admittedly, a Dable guy here, but if you were the Giants, why would you allow a guy who you weren't, you know, had a bad season the year prior, you knew your opponents, you knew you were going to have an absolutely brutal schedule the year after.

Why would you allow that guy and the GM who let Saquon Barkley go, draft a quarterback if you weren't at least thinking about the idea that, hey, we got to give these guys at least a two-year runway to coach Jackson Dart to try to get him off the try to get him off the runway?

That's a thought.

And I think think that Shane Steichen and Mike McDaniel are both GM questions far more than they are coaching questions.

I think that these are guys who are far more respected as play callers in their arena and have GMs who have done nothing but pull the wrong levers for them on the opposite side.

So I think that all

I don't give a shit about what I feel.

There is

new ownership.

Like, I think that if you look at Shane Steichen,

I do wonder if finally that Chris Ballard could be the one to go, to your point, if Carly Ursa Gordon, who is a very serious, plugged-in, obviously, owner and means business, like Chris Ballard is the one that's not found a quarterback since like the Mesozoic era.

I mean, since Andrew Luck.

And Seichen's gone 17 and 17 with a bunch of garbage at quarterback.

So let me just say this, though.

If you're a GM, what are the two things you want to be able to do when you get hired?

You want to be able to pick your head coach and be aligned with the head coach, and you want to be able able to pick your own quarterback.

Like,

it's going to be tough to make that case potentially to a general manager.

It's like, no, you know, you don't get to choose who you're working with.

Those marriages are not usually successful, right?

Or they can be volatile.

The Dable thing is, I get it.

Like, by the way, it's all...

I'm not just saying whether these guys are good head coaches or not.

It's not just that in a vacuum.

It is the situation around them.

It did appear, and based on reporting around the Giants, that there was a lot of consternation about Dable and what are we going to do with this guy and we like him we're just not seeing results and it's been a really tough couple of years with this team they they stuck with him obviously after the six and 11 they go down to three and 14 and and John Morrow was very vocal with the media it was like we need progress this year so if there is progress and they do and then the quarter the young quarterback gets in there and plays another reason why I think Connor, one of the many reasons I think Jackson Dart's going to get in there,

because if Russell Wilson begins to struggle or is kind of a game manager quarterback that's not really moving the ball enough

to the team's liking, that you're going to want to get the kid in there.

And as a head coach, be like, look, I'm the future with this young quarterback who I believe in.

I think he's going to be pushing for that.

And then the other, who else is on the list?

I'm looking at the

Mike McDaniel.

Shane Steichen, same thing.

Like Steichen is a situation where there's volatility with ownership and

a failure with Anthony Richardson top-five pick, a quarterback.

And I'm just, I'm wondering if he gets thrown out with the bathwater a little bit.

And then Mike McDaniel, this one is maybe one where we're all aligned.

That McDaniel just seems like he's gotten to the point in his run with this team where, unless they make tangible progress, and that's like make the playoffs, maybe win a playoff game, you could see that change happening as well.

Plus, I think Stephen Ross has a wandering eye.

I mean, he had like his wish list of of NFL figures out on a boat, you know, at times secretly to try to hire them.

Right.

It's like Miami Vice.

Gravy.

Just to your point, Connor, you know, the Bears did it with Matt Eberflus last year.

The Panthers did it the year before that with Bryce Young.

The Jags did it the year before that.

Like every, it happens almost every year.

Somebody with the number one pick or a rookie top 10 pick quarterback fires their head coach right after they let them draft him.

It's crazy, but it happens every year.

Yeah, that's true.

The one thing that I will just push back on a little bit, and not really, but you'd made the point about pairing your head coaches and your GMs.

If you're Mike McDaniel, one of the things that he has going for him, I don't know, the Dolphins have soared in those NFL PA surveys under Mike McDaniel.

I think that the owner does like the perception that they have as a place where everybody wants to come and play, specifically because of Mike.

And so with McDaniel and Steichen, mcdaniel came from san francisco with the 49ers steichen came from the eagles those are two of the biggest bullpens of future gm candidates in the nfl and i think it would be easy to find a good qualified candidate to replace the one that you have and a guy who would want to keep either one of those two and give them at least a short leash to give it a shot so just a thought there

well i'll just i'll just not even a pushback but I wonder with those surveys, how much of it is really Mike McDaniel and how much is it that Miami is like the number one destination for all athletes in America that they want to play in Miami?

Everybody wants to be in South Beach, no matter what the sport is.

If Mike McDaniel was in Buffalo, I don't know if he would have the same level of support.

He struggled in that cold weather game in Kansas City.

He might have to change things in a couple pounds in Buffalo.

Listen,

I mentioned Jonathan Gannon, so I'll skip him.

With Brian Dable, I kind of agree with Connor where it's at.

I feel like he's kind of like Gordy Wilson in the first back to the future.

And I think he has to preach that to

ownership.

He's really liked by a lot of people in that building, like really liked.

And then with Steichen, I think this is going to be determined from the meeting that he already had with the new ownership.

And that is when he sat down with Colleen and said, I'm going to go with Daniel Jones.

This is why I'm going with Daniel Jones.

And that...

to me almost pits this is what I'm doing and Chris Ballard saying we're still developing Anthony Richardson is kind of like

Ballard's been there for nine years.

It's a long time.

And so, yeah,

those

to me, and then with Mike,

everything ties to Tua's health.

Like, it's really his successes and failures have tied to Tua's health.

Now, there's been some things behind the scenes that have...

rubbed some people the wrong way with players kind of speaking out.

I'm not sure if you guys heard any of that towards the end of the season.

Somebody didn't want to play or something like that.

Maybe we heard something.

I think they're going to make a quick call on where they're headed as an organization come the trade deadline.

I think that's where Miami's going to be.

Come the trade deadline.

I could see somebody like Tyreek good point move.

We're looking to make a change.

And then that could start to snowball.

And speaking of trade deadlines, the dismissals don't all happen in January.

Like a couple of guys that we've talked about today are going to get whacked by week eight.

It's usually how it happens.

And we'll find out who it is.

By the way, if we're curious, who was in the hottest Molly Ewen Danger girl tier last year?

It was Dennis Allen of the Saints.

I think, James, I think you were very hot about that.

I was hot on Dennis Allen, yeah.

Yes, we had the New York Jets Robert Sala

there.

We had

Dallas Cowboys coach Mike McCarthy, and we had Philadelphia Eagles head coach Nick Sirion.

How about that?

Geez.

Well, a year ago, that made more sense.

It was.

Well,

this was a collective.

This wasn't a Zooser.

We all agreed that he was in a lot of danger.

It just, it also goes to show you, and now one year later, we have him in the death proof list.

Things can change very quickly for the negative and the positive.

And that is life in our league.

Put a bow on it, Connor.

Your thoughts?

One more thing, because there's no other podcast that I could probably say this on where it would be relevant, but James had mentioned Brian Dable.

It's a good thing to put a bow on.

The thing for people to watch, Brian Dable lovers and Brian Dable haters, is salesmanship.

Two of the last three Giants head coaches John Mayer wanted to bring back, but didn't because of a lack of salesmanship down the stretch.

I'm talking about Joe Judge and I'm talking about Ben McAdoo, two guys who couldn't handle the heat.

And so John Mayer had to pull the plug early.

If Brian Dable loses, but loses in an interesting way and maintains his hold on the public in person at the press conference at the podium, he's going to come back next year.

Mark my words.

Ooh.

Oh.

I got a text during the show that ties into that.

Can I read it?

Yeah, do it.

It's from an AFC, AFC Assistant General Manager.

Wait, is this breaking news?

Is this breaking news?

Do we need to give it the tag?

On a Monday?

No.

Not on a Monday, yeah.

If it was like a Thursday,

but on a Monday, yeah.

Yeah, you ready?

Definitely like, yeah.

Go ahead.

Mark my words: Jackson Dart Dart is going to be a problem for that division for years to come.

Just saying.

That's just one man's opinion.

Why did I change the New York Giants?

This is the biggest surprise of the summer for me, like how much people are

in love with the Giants.

No, I'm just kidding.

Like, it's just like,

it's incredible.

It's incredible to me.

It is.

I think they're going to be that team that you hate.

Like, teams that play them are going to lose the next week.

They're going to be like one of those teams.

I I don't know if the Giants beat them, but

they might be beat up and lose the next week.

All right.

Just another thing to look forward to this season.

By the way, you mentioned Ben McAdoo.

I miss Ben McAdoo.

Can we see Ben McAdoo in his opening press conference suit again?

Because it's been a while.

I don't know.

Sound off in the comments on YouTube.

I feel like I Ben McAdon, but that's fine.

I was there.

What a day.

I was there.

Did you raise your hand and ask about the suit?

He's like, sir, have you lost an enormous amount of weight recently?

So this is.

Are you hiding someone?

So yes, are you actually three children in a trench coat, sir?

My two favorite moments of that.

So I did talk to him about that.

And he had lost a lot of weight like very recently before that moment and just didn't.

Just didn't buy a new suit, which is, which is hilarious.

I mean, I've gotten through a situation like that where you lose some weight and you're like, like, I don't think it was that much weight.

And then you go to put your old suit on.

Now, should Ben have just run over to Joseph A.

Bank and rectified his situation?

Yes, I think so.

He's the head coach of the Giants.

He's the head coach of the Giants.

Some coffee runner coaches Joey Banks.

But he's

no one's talking about it except for us.

Go on, I got him.

Shortly after that happened, I did like a kind of like a deep dive on the McAdoo tenure.

And he was trying, he had a meeting with a player who he was trying to intimidate uh and so the first like three and a half minutes of the meeting were him just staring at the guy until like the silence was broken and every room's like what the f is going on here and i i just remember going back to that because i i love him I think he is one of the genuinely good people in the NFL.

But when you try to be someone you're not, or when you're thrust into a role that just isn't the right fit personally, like if that guy was the head coach of the Buccaneers like four years ago, I think he'd still be there.

I think he's a decent play caller, but I think it was just total wrong place, wrong time.

And that poor

also Michael Scott.

Yes.

Also, Michael Scott.

Yeah.

James Palmer, you've said it all.

You are the host of the Athletic Scoop City with Diana Rossini and Chase Daniel.

Of course, 89 with future Hall of Famer Steve Smith.

We got to get him back.

We'll have to be in there.

Got to get him back on the show.

Got to get Steve back on the show.

We love it.

Connor, great to have you back with us as well.

We missed you.

It was a dark week without you.

But now here we are, the beginning kickoff week in the NFL.

Kickoff week on a Monday in the NFL.

Everybody have a safe and wonderful Labor Day.

And until next time, do what you must.

Heed the call.

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