NFL 2025 Week 12 Preview + TNF Recap

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Speaker 1 Nationwide Investment Services Corporation, Ember Finnett, Columbus, Ohio. Oh, baby mark, week 12 in the NFL.
We're gonna preview it all. Can the Chiefs finally get clutch?

Speaker 1 Is this the week Justin Jefferson snaps on nine? Can the Cowboys upset the Eagles? And Sassy, did we just watch the best defensive performance from a team all season?

Speaker 2 I tend to think that we did, and we will discuss it all.

Speaker 1 I think we did. Oh, let's get into it.
It's time to heed the call.

Speaker 1 Heyo,

Speaker 1 welcome to Heed the Call and NFL podcast. Dan Hans is here, Mark Sessler, Justin Graver on the ones and twos, Connor Orr joining us in just a bit to break down all the week 12 action to come.

Speaker 1 How you doing, Sassy?

Speaker 2 I'm doing absolutely beautifully tonight on this Thursday night.

Speaker 1 The rain is pouring down. Yes, it is.
In Los Angeles where we record. It's actually, I don't know, I kind of like it.

Speaker 1 I like the protection of being in the home as you hear the wind whipping off the back wall right behind me.

Speaker 1 We're all cozy together, Mark.

Speaker 1 Our cozy wozies are touching.

Speaker 1 We're all snuggled up. Who's Big Spoon? Who's Little Spoon? I think you know the answer.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I think it's interchangeable. We're under blankets in this type of weather.
You're eating comfort food. Whatever plan you had, diet-wise, is out the window.
Get through the rain.

Speaker 1 I love it. I like that versatility with the big spoon, little spoon.
Yeah. Beautiful.
Always. Always.
All right. With that said, let's talk about the game that's already been played.

Speaker 1 It just wrapped up in Houston. Hit the music, Ravy.

Speaker 1 I don't want to...

Speaker 1 Overstate it, but that was one of the best defensive games we've seen from any team all year. And I refer, of course, to the Houston Texans, who playing without C.J.

Speaker 1 Stroud for the third straight week, win for the third straight week,

Speaker 1 getting a solid performance from Davis Mills, who throws two first half touchdowns. Then they take the air out of the football in the second half.

Speaker 1 And with good reason, because their defensive line, their front, had a game for the ages, sacking the great Josh Allen. Josh Allen, who scored six touchdowns by himself four days ago.

Speaker 1 They sack him eight times, hold him without a score. He throws two interceptions, including the game ceiling pick in the final minute.
And the Texans hold on 23 to 19.

Speaker 1 Houston moves above 500.

Speaker 1 Buffalo falls to 7-4.

Speaker 1 This song is awesome.

Speaker 1 Mark, unbelievable. I mean, the beating that Josh Allen takes in this game,

Speaker 1 and you just got to tip your cap to Daniil Hunter, to Will Anderson, everyone on that front who just did the business.

Speaker 2 It involved every one of them.

Speaker 2 The Bills have a good offensive line. They were a little banged up tonight, but watching Spencer Brown at right tackle just getting

Speaker 1 utterly handled, right?

Speaker 2 And Deion Dawkins getting banged up. But by the end of the game, it really felt to me because I'm not pinning anything on Josh Allen.

Speaker 2 This is just you, you've you ran into a gang of maulers tonight, and it was a classical kind of like home team. TNF, we're going to do what we do best and have sort of a celebration.

Speaker 2 And it was relentless from A to Z. But I do think that Josh Allen by the end was frustrated, obviously,

Speaker 2 and searching for answers and dancing around the pocket. And that offensive line just did not help him out at all tonight.

Speaker 2 And he probably walked into a couple of those problems himself, but it was concerning to watch them be that bludgeoned and beaten. But they did play what is arguably the best defense in the league.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I think certainly the best front four in the league. Josh Allen after this game, he takes a beating.

Speaker 1 I mean, the Bills, they are the poster children coming out of this game for Thursday Night Football Sucks because you could tell this was a team that was still kind of trying to get healthy going into this game, and then they just dropping like flies in this game.

Speaker 1 Allen gets banged up a couple times in this game. Deion Dawkins banged up.
Khalil Shakir, Connor McGovern, Spencer Brown,

Speaker 1 Maxwell Harrison, Christian Bernard. Even the referee, Adrian Hill, looked like he popped an Achilles.
I know he's not connected to the Bills, but this was a brutal game.

Speaker 1 Afterwards, Allen told reporters that he felt a little numbness in his left arm,

Speaker 1 but quote, we're good. And that's just who he is.
He's a dog, and it's going to be very hard to knock Josh Allen out of a game.

Speaker 1 But the Texans did everything but that. And, you know, I really felt for

Speaker 1 what you saw on the right side of this offensive line with Spencer Brown because he suffers a shoulder injury. Right.

Speaker 1 And he's, you know, every time he's on the sideline, he's working on it, trying to test the strength. And then he's trying to block Daniil Hunter

Speaker 1 with one arm, and it's his outside arm, which he can't do anything with. They eventually mercifully had to pull him from the game.
And then the replacement gets beat on

Speaker 1 what would have been a brutal sack in that last Bills possession. It's called for holding.
Then, with the game seemingly lost,

Speaker 1 the the Bills pull off a perfect trick play, like a hook and ladder. Yeah, to Khalil Shakir, yeah.

Speaker 1 To Khalil Shakir, that goes off like gangbusters for a huge gain, puts them deep into Texans' territory. And under normal circumstances, you would think, wow, okay, Bills down four.

Speaker 1 They have a first down. They have two timeouts.

Speaker 1 They're going to do this thing. But I just, I never doubted Houston finishing this game off.
And sure enough, that's exactly what they did. So just such a complete effort.

Speaker 1 And the other thing that went through my mind as I'm watching this, I was like, this defense will travel into January if they can just figure out the offensive side.

Speaker 1 They're not a lot of fun to watch on offense anyway. They're very conservative.
They totally stopped.

Speaker 1 They took, like I said, the air out of the football in the second half, but they did it because D'Amico Ryan said, There's no way my defense gets me beat today. And he was right.

Speaker 2 I wrote a similar note that, like, I'm not wowed by the overall Houston Texans situation, but you could see them

Speaker 2 winning a playoff game because of the defense alone. There's a couple of teams out there like that, but their offense is a little more functional than some of these other defensive-led teams.

Speaker 2 If they can just get the ground game going, and if they're if they don't turn the ball over, I thought tonight, I mean, Kalen Bullock, I mean, we haven't seen a lot of games like this impact inside this defensive performance.

Speaker 2 He has the pick six that is that it stands as an interception, but there was a block in the back, but that's points that they would have scored again by that defense.

Speaker 2 He has a second interception, a force fumble. And if you look at the Bills in general, I think they had like 12 offensive points off of 11 possessions because one of those touchdowns was a

Speaker 2 punt return or a kick return. So

Speaker 2 it really was a night where the Bills, I think from you look at that Bucs game, they took a step back where you're asking questions about the positional groups, the wide receivers, but then you got to factor in who they played.

Speaker 2 So it's like, it's not not a panic moment, but like, how many weeks do we say that about the Bills? I'm not panicking, but it's like, no, I mean,

Speaker 1 sometimes this is what kind of drives me crazy about our business. Sometimes when a team loses, we have to say, oh, there's something wrong with this team.

Speaker 1 It's like, no, how about on a short week, they went to Houston and got their ass kicked by a team that has the best defense in the league and the best pass rushing group in the league.

Speaker 1 And the Bills offensive line on this day, in this environment, on this short week, couldn't handle it.

Speaker 1 And like, so like, yeah, four days ago, they, they scored 40 on the Bucs and the quarterback had six touchdowns. Hopefully, they'll get Dalton Kincaid back eventually.

Speaker 1 Maybe they work out what's going, whatever's going on with Keon Coleman.

Speaker 1 They're certainly short some playmakers, but Josh Allen is so good that nine times out of 10, he's going to still make it work and your offense isn't going to be a problem. But man,

Speaker 1 again, What they were able to do today every single time.

Speaker 1 It's funny because we just watched a primetime game with Philly in Detroit where it wasn't the same type of energy, but it was the same thing where with Jared Goff, who was just helpless in the pocket, that's his whole thing.

Speaker 1 He's a Stone Age pony, but he's the most accurate thrower in the league. So he's got this like kind of magic to him.

Speaker 1 If you could just give him protection, but if that breaks down the whole and the timing goes off, it's over.

Speaker 1 The Bills have this quarterback, this beast of a quarterback who should be able to scramble, get away from rushes, keep plays alive, and he usually can, but you can't even do it with this team. No.

Speaker 1 Will Anderson had a play in this game where he got after Allen immediately after the snap, just missed bringing him down. He's on the ground.
He hops back up.

Speaker 1 Allen is trying desperately to keep the play alive. Will Anderson chases him down again and takes him down for a sack.

Speaker 1 I mean, how many times did we see Allen get swallowed up for not just like a four or five or six yard loss, 10, 12, 14 yard losses because he is such a great athlete, but he had nowhere to go.

Speaker 1 He was like this beautiful caged animal at a zoo in the 1950s where he's just behind bars and trying to get away and there's nowhere to go.

Speaker 1 It was kind of sad to watch because he is such a beautiful quarterback. I don't mean physically, although conventionally he's attractive.

Speaker 1 I don't see him that way, but he's a beautiful athlete and a specimen in the way he creates and seeing what Houston did to him.

Speaker 1 I'm just so impressed. And I'll just reiterate it, Mark.
This team can get in the playoffs, and they took a big step forward.

Speaker 1 All the odds and everything now are in their favor of making the playoffs or get they're about 50% now.

Speaker 1 I think, uh, in terms of making it as a wild card, probably not going to catch the Colts, but like

Speaker 1 they can win more than one playoff game. If C.J.
Stroud comes back and they could just give some level of a baseline offense, a league average offense, this defense can knock off multiple teams.

Speaker 1 Like you, it would

Speaker 2 make you think of like those early Ravens teams that had no offense or no real identity on offense and struggled, but the sheer will and power of their defense led them to a place unexpected.

Speaker 2 So, I mean, I think you're right.

Speaker 2 In a weird AFC, because I was thinking about this, like the big four that we've been dealing with for a long time, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Buffalo, every one of those teams are in a weird place right now to some degree.

Speaker 2 Not like a press the panic mode.

Speaker 2 Some of them seem gone, but like we, this is not where we thought where we'd be talking about the Colts and the Texans and things that have entered into the picture, which I love that about about a football season, but it's a little unexpected.

Speaker 2 There was one play tonight when Allen did escape the pressure and the chaos and ran for that 14-yard chain moving first down. It's like, oh, I just sat there thinking, oh, well,

Speaker 2 they're going to win this game because we've seen this a hundred times.

Speaker 1 Another play with Shakir made those two guys misses and turned it into a 44-yard. It's like, okay, now they're going to figure it out.

Speaker 2 And it just didn't happen. And it was surprising because if any team I looked at to say, you're not clutch or you haven't proven that you can do that in the end, it would be be the Texans.

Speaker 2 But this defense, you're right, changes everything you think about what they can accomplish if they can stay close in games.

Speaker 1 Justin, I see you just shot us a text. I know Davis Mills is 3-0 and C.J.
Stroud is 3-5.

Speaker 1 Don't bring your AFC South hater eight in here because this is just your way of

Speaker 1 denigrating Stroud as a franchise player. It's a better team as C.J.
Stroud. I don't want to hear this.
Do you have to bring that? Go ahead.

Speaker 1 You've already sent the text. Say your piece.

Speaker 1 Tell me what Davis Mill is.

Speaker 1 Go ahead.

Speaker 5 I just want to know if the conversation will be had before the next Houston Texans game, like in the market. You know, is D'Amico Ryan's going to get asked on Wednesday?

Speaker 5 Even if CJ's healthy, is he good in the job? Like, I just want to know if that conversation is going to start to happen.

Speaker 5 I don't want to be the one starting.

Speaker 1 I'm going to sit around it. Although I just did

Speaker 1 it.

Speaker 1 Who cares if the market is asking it? The only thing that matters is: are they in turn?

Speaker 1 Are they internally talking about it? I don't think so. I think they love CJ Stroud.
I still think they believe he is

Speaker 1 a true and the money.

Speaker 1 That's right. Just like Mrs.
Mills.

Speaker 2 It's not that big of a difference between them. I think, if anything, Davis Mills has come in and done

Speaker 2 the job of a backup that has a lot of starts under his belt and looked solid, you know?

Speaker 1 Yep. Not Mrs.
Meisel. That was my

Speaker 1 global studies teacher, my social studies teacher in eighth grade, Mrs. Miller, said, money makes the world go around.
CJ's getting paid.

Speaker 1 And he's also the better guy because we've seen it. I know it's a couple of years ago now, but

Speaker 1 he levels up the offense. There's a ceiling with Davis Mills, and you see the way D'Amico

Speaker 1 and the Houston offense ran this game in the second half. There's not a ton of trust there, but good job.
Sometimes, last note. about backup quarterbacks.
This is what they're supposed to do.

Speaker 1 Like, be ready when called upon and then help the team not necessarily be a superstar or whatever, but help the team. And then the starter gets healthy and you go back to being the backup.

Speaker 1 And it doesn't always have to be a controversy, but you're probably right.

Speaker 1 People will be talking about it. The market will speak on it.

Speaker 2 The market will be speaking. As Sheck says,

Speaker 2 in a world that we live in, there should be 32 functional to really good quarterbacks, which is often not the case. But there should also be 64.
Sure.

Speaker 1 And Mills is one of them in this reality in which there are. He's a perfectly functional, good backup, and he's proved it these last few weeks.
Eight sacks, three turnovers.

Speaker 1 After that first Bills possession that ends in a touchdown, they held the Buffalo offense to two field goals, 245 yards on 56 plays. Bravo, Texans.
All right.

Speaker 1 Just getting started here. Let's take a break.
We'll bring in Connor. and we'll dig into the rest of week 12.

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Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 TNF in the rear view. Now we dive into week 12 at large.
Gonna be tough to follow up week 11, which had some bangers and the schedule on its surface.

Speaker 1 Not quite there, Connie, but I will say this: we have reached one of those, you'll like this, Mark. We have reached one of those markers indicate

Speaker 1 we are getting deeper into the year, which means closer to the end, Cesee.

Speaker 1 If the Giants lose this week and either the Cowboys, Seahawks, or Vikings win, the New York Giants become the first team eliminated from the playoffs with six weeks remaining.

Speaker 1 Yes, the Titans, congratulations, Justin, cannot be eliminated this week. So the demon on the chopping block.

Speaker 2 Let's make sure the Titans can make a run here.

Speaker 1 Yeah, major marker in the season.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 With that said, four teams on by this week. Denver, LA Chargers, Miami, Washington.
Thank God. I mean, the Commanders are like one of those super sad teams where it's just like, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 We just need to

Speaker 1 see you next summer. Yeah.
But we're ready for the puff pieces. Commanders are back after a loss.
25. It's like, good.
But right now we still have to deal with them for another five weeks after this.

Speaker 1 It's like, we're starting to accumulate those teams as well. You take on weight and then you release it all in January.

Speaker 7 Do you think that the NFL will learn from this? It's like the third year in a row that they've had this beautiful baby lamb of a team that's like very exciting and new and fresh.

Speaker 7 And then they just like slaughter it for meat. And then by week seven, they're just completely irrelevant.

Speaker 7 Do you think that maybe next year they're like, maybe it's a bad idea to put like the singular best rising young talent in the league on short rest in prime time in international markets for like 13 straight weeks in a row and make him live like Kirk Cobain at the height of like Nirvana.

Speaker 7 And then, you know, like, I don't know, like, let's just pump the brakes a little bit.

Speaker 2 You know, they will absolutely not learn.

Speaker 1 No, they learn. You know what? They'll learn.
They'll learn the report I saw out there that NFL networks, whatever's left of that old graveyard,

Speaker 1 have had their best ratings ever

Speaker 1 for games in the morning, these early morning games.

Speaker 1 I saw that, and it was like like in the Naked Gun 33 and a third, colon, the final insult, when Frank Drebin keeps on messing up at the Oscars.

Speaker 1 They're trying to defuse a bomb, and then the entire audience in unison goes, oh,

Speaker 1 slapping their hand against their forehead. Like, we're just going to get more 6 a.m.
starts, so be ready for that.

Speaker 7 You know who it's going to be next year, too?

Speaker 7 Who's going to be the one that the NFL absolutely?

Speaker 1 Oh, the sacrificial lamb? Yeah, you know who it's going to be?

Speaker 2 Well, it could be the Colts.

Speaker 7 No, it's going to be Drake May.

Speaker 1 It's going to be be Drake May. Oh, Drake May.
Yep. It's got to be.
It's got to be. It's like when the natives would

Speaker 1 present the girl to Kong,

Speaker 1 it's going to be Drake May tied up by ropes, waiting for the great monster to appear from the trees.

Speaker 2 We're back in a world where they're going to have seven island games.

Speaker 1 Yeah. The New England Patriots.
Well, that's fine.

Speaker 1 I mean, they're a great team now, but what Connor's referring to is they're going to put Drake May in increasingly difficult positions until his knees explode from too much

Speaker 1 like air travel slash, oh, we're playing on one and a half days rest so the people of like Sao Paulo can

Speaker 1 drink in the streets. It's like, okay,

Speaker 1 that would be terrible. Everybody roots for the Patriots.
All right, let's get into it. Primetime football, let's start there.
Sunday night football.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 All right, Sesse. The number 12 Buccaneers in the power ranking, 6-4.

Speaker 1 Beat by the Patriots, beat by the Bills, and now they're back in the NFC against the number one in the power rankings, LA Rams, 8-2, Sunday night football.

Speaker 1 As I said, it's another big test mark for the Bucs, and I don't want to hear about their injuries. Everybody's got injuries.

Speaker 1 I want the Bucs to show that they're the real deal and put up a fight in this game. But the Rams are

Speaker 1 a tough assignment, especially on the road in primetime.

Speaker 2 Their schedule has been brutal. It definitely softens up after this, but I feel like it's been, you know, 21 days of heartbreak, and I don't see it letting up here.

Speaker 2 And I'm not going to point to the injuries because Chris Godwin has begun to practice again. I don't know what that means for this week necessarily, but same with Bucky Irvin.

Speaker 2 They're getting healthier. So the excuses are drying up.
I think this is a really good team that can challenge the Rams, but they just seem to struggle closing games against the better competition.

Speaker 2 And the Rams right now, you can just feel everything heating up, especially on defense. I just think that

Speaker 2 this was our number one team. It looks that way.
It's not a mirage. And I think it's more heartbreaking

Speaker 2 for Baker and the Bucs. I just don't love the situation of having to fly across the country to L.A.
to deal with this Rams team.

Speaker 1 Connor, this is what I love about the Rams and what I feel like separates them from a lot of the teams.

Speaker 1 I don't think there's a huge separation between the Rams and the teams below them, but I think their balance, they are actually number three in EPA offensively and defensively.

Speaker 1 Like, what a great job, again, that the front office

Speaker 1 and Sean McVay have done building just this balanced machine with Stafford at the controls. Like, I thought it was notable, Connor, that Stafford barely even needed to do anything against Seattle.

Speaker 1 They had a very measured game plan where he threw for, I think, about 140 yards, but played clean, mistake-free football, and then the defense handled that.

Speaker 1 They could take turns, even if one side has an off day, which is rare, the other side can make up for it. That's what you want.

Speaker 7 We have a lot of times where we compare the Chiefs to the Patriots and the ebbs and flows of what has happened to the Chiefs of the Patriots.

Speaker 7 To me, this Rams team more embodies like the height of what they built in New England. And the reason is it's always opponent-specific.

Speaker 7 And there are very few teams, and we saw this with Seattle last week, where if it's not their ball court, if it's not their home park, if it's not the way that they want to play, they're going to struggle mightily to move the the ball, right?

Speaker 7 The Rams, it's just that they have enough pieces to be able to transform into whatever the game dictates. And it may never be sexy, even though Matt Stafford's on pace for like 50 touchdown passes.

Speaker 7 So I don't want to underplay that, but sometimes it doesn't look great, but it's just the ability of them to grind it down in any way, shape, or form that makes me feel like that's probably the closest team that we've had to like a Tom Brady Patriots team.

Speaker 2 I mean, you're right, they're not flashy, Like, they don't blow you away visually, but almost in an eagle sense, they are very deep all over the place. I mean, especially on the upfront on defense.

Speaker 2 And, you know, maybe like Sean McVay

Speaker 2 has even changed even and grown even more than we could have imagined because there were seasons away from him having, I think, kind of a mental breakdown on the job and nearly maybe folding away.

Speaker 2 And those Rams teams were looking like ancient fodder. And now they rebuilt the entire organization in like two or three years, and they're the best team in the league right now.
It happened quick.

Speaker 1 One last note, because I look at the Patriots as we talked about them, like as a growing superpower, but schedule's been a little soft. The Colts, I see the same way.

Speaker 1 It's like, I need, I'm looking forward to like how the end of the season plays out. You can't say that about the Rams either.

Speaker 1 They've actually played the third hardest schedule in the league on top of everything else, playing in that rugged NFC West.

Speaker 1 They've had some tough games at a division and they keep coming out on top all right let's move to monday night football

Speaker 1 the panthers at the 49ers uh

Speaker 1 okay i mean

Speaker 1 connor this is this is a big spot for carolina because i think they've had obviously have had ups and downs this season. It's been a roller coaster.

Speaker 1 They're not a team that gets a lot of prime time love. Bryce Young is coming off his most explosive performance ever in terms of passing yards over 400 yards.

Speaker 1 Like, if there was ever a time for the Panthers to really gain some momentum and make a statement, it's right here.

Speaker 1 Do you think they could seize the moment against the Niners team that's starting to put it together?

Speaker 7 I think so if only because, again, I mean, we said this a couple of weeks ago when the 49ers played the Rams the second time and the Rams really started revving up with the multi-tight end sets.

Speaker 7 The 49ers just don't have heft through the middle of their defense. And when Fred Warner goes down, that's part of it.
But Robert Sala likes to play with not a lot of guys in the front seven anyway.

Speaker 7 He likes guys to be on the back end, and then he likes the pass rush to do its work. That's the one thing that Carolina does well, right? I think they're eighth in EPA per rush.

Speaker 7 Rico Daddle is still kind of the straw that stirs the drink in this offense. And if that's working, Carolina can muddy the game up.

Speaker 7 Egyo Evero is having a good season as a play caller on the defensive side of the ball.

Speaker 2 So I don't think this one's out of the realm of possibility and carolina is not an upset it's not an upset anymore this team has a winning record so i don't know i look at this as like a potential like 2017 game like last possession kind of kind of deal yeah and the niners haven't been blowing people out the panthers weekly results have been totally bizarre but the one like area that i think is a positive for bryce young is you don't want to ask him to do what he did last week consistently you're right that balance matters but the niners right now without nick bosa they had zero sacks on 57 pass attempts last week.

Speaker 2 They could not rush the passer, and that's a real weakness for them.

Speaker 2 So if you can punish them up the middle with the run and keep Bryce Young safe, like there is a recipe to be in this game in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the Nick Bosa injury just was screaming at them. They weren't able to fill that void.
at the trade deadline.

Speaker 1 So now it's just something that I think is going to be a major issue for them them and maybe even a fatal issue for them come playoff time unless they can find a way to generate a pass rush in other ways.

Speaker 1 Keep an eye on a couple guys on San Francisco. George Kittle is better than ever.
George Kittle came back from injury and is an absolute machine. Like, is he a Hall of Fame player?

Speaker 1 Is George Kittle a Hall of Famer? I feel like you make the Hall of Fame in your 30s, and right now

Speaker 1 he is showing no signs of slowing down. And you saw that connection he has with Purdy.

Speaker 1 It's a really big deal, especially with Brandon Ayuk still week to week, and they haven't opened up that practice window for him. It's starting to look like it's possible we don't see Ayuk this season

Speaker 1 more than him having a big role.

Speaker 1 And last note, Rookie Pearsall back in the lineup last week, didn't find his role, but keep an eye on him maybe making some plays in this game because he's too good to stay invisible.

Speaker 2 They survived all these injuries. I mean, you got to give them that.
Like, if they go 8-4 and beat the Panthers here, like

Speaker 2 nothing's a lock, but their chance to make the playoffs is

Speaker 2 A-min, if not solid A. Like, they've gotten through a lot of ups and downs.

Speaker 7 And I think that speaks to how well Kyle Shanahan's built this offense, right?

Speaker 7 It's still an offense that, as complex as it looks and as complicated as it seems to stop it, relies on downhill running and can succeed at three yards a carry and intermediate passes, stuff that any quarterback can do.

Speaker 7 And while Brock Purdy has been a slight statistical improvement on Mac Jones, that's how you don't lose home field advantage. That's how you keep that winning record.

Speaker 7 I mean, this offense is built to run successfully because it doesn't really ask a lot out of a quarterback except for just understanding the mechanisms of it.

Speaker 7 And so I give them a lot of credit for that.

Speaker 1 Fun, fun, fun. Good game.
Joe and Troy will elevate it as they always do. That's the number 20 Panthers and the number 11 49ers.

Speaker 1 San Francisco looking to bust into the top 10 of the HTC power rankings. Let's take a break.
And when we get back, we dig into the early games.

Speaker 1 Ooh, that means an early appearance for, you know what, the show destroyer, the quad box. Stay right there.

Speaker 1 You know, Mark,

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Speaker 1 you know, both parents are working. It's busy.
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And it tastes good and it gets the variety.

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So you kind of understand in the back of your mind,

Speaker 1 I mean, how many times are they going to have the same three or four meals? No, Factor has changed all that. So very good stuff.

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Speaker 1 Thanks, Mark. I appreciate that compliment.
You're welcome.

Speaker 1 All right, we are back. Are you guys ready?

Speaker 2 I think so. I mean, TBD.

Speaker 1 Audience, are you ready?

Speaker 1 Pause for reaction.

Speaker 1 Oh, they're ready too.

Speaker 1 It's time for the quad bugs.

Speaker 1 That is super tight. He's on drugs.

Speaker 2 RS is in the jackpot now.

Speaker 1 Put on your socks and tap.

Speaker 1 It makes me sick in my balls. DTF, Jeff.
Good for you.

Speaker 1 Of course, the mythical

Speaker 1 mates here.

Speaker 1 Okay, perfect.

Speaker 1 The dean scream at the end. This is such a bad show.

Speaker 1 You talk about losing the plot. Like, why are we here?

Speaker 2 It's taking over the entire production.

Speaker 1 How long is it now, Justin?

Speaker 5 We are over 20 seconds.

Speaker 1 Oh, shit.

Speaker 1 Oh, no.

Speaker 1 We're like, we're trying, we are a.

Speaker 1 We're a hip, a humble, independent podcast.

Speaker 1 We're trying to like

Speaker 1 gain new listeners and viewers, and we're rolling that out every week expecting success.

Speaker 1 It's just toxic. Suicide.

Speaker 7 Let me put it to you this way though, Dan. Would you rather 10,000 new listeners or to be able to just do what you want with the quad box for the rest of your life?

Speaker 7 I mean, I feel like there's a very obvious answer here.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because actually I thought you were saying, would you rather have 10,000 new listeners or 10,000 seconds to the quad box? 10,000 seconds to the quad box. Well, yes, on both accounts.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 No doubt about it. Even if it costs us 10,000 listeners.
All right.

Speaker 1 With that said, the only thing more wasteful than 22 seconds of the quad box is then talking about the quad box for another minute and a half. The whole show is ruined.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 1 So what is the quad box? We give you four games in the early window that we think you should be keeping your eye on if you really want to understand our league.

Speaker 1 So with that said, I'll get this one going.

Speaker 1 The number 17 Pittsburgh Steelers, 6-4, travel to Soldier Field to face the number 14 Chicago Bears, 7-3.

Speaker 1 Iron Eagle, J.J. Watt on the call, early window.
Love this game.

Speaker 1 You know, Sheck said it well on

Speaker 1 the Thanksgiving table episode. And shout out to everybody who enjoyed our second annual Build a Thanksgiving table episode.
Go back and check it out.

Speaker 1 Or, you know, sit on it and you want to listen to it Thanksgiving morning or watch it Thanksgiving morning, you could do that too. Like these are you have choices.

Speaker 2 Or multiple times.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 But he said, like, you know, the Steelers kind of need this game.

Speaker 1 And if you look at the Steelers' schedule and you know

Speaker 1 and you know that the Ravens have really come on strong, obviously,

Speaker 1 the Steelers,

Speaker 1 after after this game, they are home Buffalo at Baltimore.

Speaker 1 And, you know,

Speaker 1 they can conceivably be 6-7 after that run. So they need to win where they can win.

Speaker 1 And while we love what the Bears have done this season in terms of getting the job done, Connor, and the dramatics of it all, there's a reason why they haven't surged into the top 10 of our power rankings.

Speaker 1 There's still a lot of nitpicking there.

Speaker 1 So I think it's an opportunity if Pittsburgh has Aaron Rodgers to go get a win here, but also Chicago has an opportunity to further entrench themselves in the NFC playoff picture and stick it to Rodgers, who's been killing them for years.

Speaker 1 I like this matchup.

Speaker 7 I do too, and I think it really plays into the Bears' strengths.

Speaker 7 I was watching, someone made a clip of every sack that Caleb Williams avoided this year, and it's insane how well he is doing in the backfield.

Speaker 7 It's vintage Russell Wilson, but like a little bit more responsible. Like his eyes are always downfield.
He rarely kind of turns his back to the opponents. So he weaponizes it a little bit more.

Speaker 7 And I feel like, right, he's a little bit more athletic than what the Steelers are going to be able to throw at him defensively.

Speaker 7 I think he negates that pass rush a little, no matter how blitz happy or how pressure happy Tomlin gets.

Speaker 7 And as long as the Bears can slow down that running game, because the Steelers don't have an explosive offense, they have a good running game. They don't have an explosive offense.

Speaker 7 They can slow down that running game. I actually just said this on Czech show.
I think this is a two-plus touchdown victory for for Chicago.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I could sense, and this is not new with Shek, but some general irritation with the Steelers experience.

Speaker 2 I think it's two teams where if you are a long-suffering Bears fan or a lifelong Steelers fan, you're looking at your own team, and it's very different things to be excited about.

Speaker 2 You hope that Pittsburgh's defense can, again, probably save the day, and there's not a ton of evidence that's definitely the case.

Speaker 2 But if you're a Bears fan, you're watching this Ben Johnson offense grow weekly and they've become really balanced.

Speaker 2 And it's guys like, you know, I think that Johnson said that he thinks Luther Burden is going to play a bigger role down the stretch. Colston Loveland's been a part of it.

Speaker 2 Like the pieces they've added, the offensive line has been much better at pass protecting at times.

Speaker 2 Like, I just see a team going in a different direction than the Steelers, and I think they handle this challenge without too much difficulty.

Speaker 1 I'm surprised.

Speaker 1 I could see this as a a coin flip game.

Speaker 1 And I guess part of that is I'm still just

Speaker 1 not

Speaker 1 sold. But maybe, maybe they'll sell me this week with a, because they, with Rodgers beat up, and we don't know, as we record this, we don't know if Rodgers is going to play.

Speaker 1 He says it's going to come down to, I think he said his safety.

Speaker 1 How does he brace himself? If he doesn't, this is a Mason Rudolph game.

Speaker 1 And if it's a Mason Rudolph game, I feel great about the Bears, and there shouldn't be any excuse. But

Speaker 1 we'll see. We'll see how it all shakes out.
I saw this. This was fun.

Speaker 1 Darnell Washington, one of my favorite players in the league, the big tight end for Pittsburgh. He's become a real red zone menace.

Speaker 1 He does that thing that when you coach youth football, who's the biggest, largest child with the most girth?

Speaker 1 Send him to the goal line, have him turn around and then throw it to him while all the other boys look up. That's what they actually have in the NFL.
And that's a big,

Speaker 1 like, it's very rare.

Speaker 1 And Connor, you've been at a lot more games than Mark and I, but we've been at a bunch too when you're even on the down on the field that certain guys, and it doesn't happen a lot.

Speaker 1 Like, oh my God, there's he's so much bigger than all these other guys. And it's just like, whoa, Darnell Washington is one of those dudes.

Speaker 1 He was on, what show was he on, Justin? He was on the Amon Ra St. Brown podcast, right?

Speaker 5 Yeah, it's called the St. Brown podcast.

Speaker 1 It's Amon Ra and his brother. Exactly.
And they got to a question I think we're all wondering deep down: is Darnell three bills? How much do you weigh?

Speaker 1 Yeah, bro. I gotta ask, bro.

Speaker 1 The internet is 260.

Speaker 8 I'm not 260, bro.

Speaker 2 Yeah, bro.

Speaker 4 We looked it up. Like, no way.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 yeah. All right, for the cap to y'all.
I ain't weigh myself in a minute, but I know. Bro, what do you mean?

Speaker 9 You got weigh-ins every week.

Speaker 1 Look, yeah, no way in.

Speaker 1 You try to get away. I ain't weigh myself in a minute.
Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 Look, I'm going to keep it up. Yeah,

Speaker 1 I'm 311.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 God bless you, Darnell Washington. And 6-8.

Speaker 1 6'8-3-11 playing tight end. I love it.

Speaker 7 I love how he was like, I don't know. I haven't weighed myself in a while.
And then everyone's like, yes, you have. And he's like, yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1 I'm 311 pounds.

Speaker 7 He has the exact to the pound.

Speaker 5 It's not like about 300.

Speaker 1 It's like, I know the exact amount that I have.

Speaker 1 I don't usually vouch for like NFL player podcasts. I imagine most of them are quite dreadful.

Speaker 1 But I have respect for the St. Browns because

Speaker 1 they were able to cut through the bullshit there with their knowledge of the league and the day-to-day operational nature of it. Good job by you guys.

Speaker 1 Subscribe and download wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 1 All right, let's move on. Up next in the quad box, I like to put who am I going to put pressure on this week to be fourth in the quad box and get a violation?

Speaker 1 Hmm. You know, Connor, I'm going to give you a break this week.
You'll go second. Yeah.

Speaker 7 Yeah. No, I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 It's turned to heat up on the sess dog this week. Let's turn the heat on.

Speaker 2 I can tell where this is going.

Speaker 7 I'm going to go obvious here. I don't want to deal with Justin today.
It's been a long day. So I'm going to get

Speaker 7 number eight Colts at the number 10 Chiefs. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 This is

Speaker 7 delicious for so many reasons. I think that the matchup on the field is good.

Speaker 7 And I also feel like

Speaker 7 the side drama, like we've talked about this every week, we've been covering it, but the Romo thing has reached a fear pitch. And

Speaker 7 he has no choice but to evolve in a big game.

Speaker 7 And so I'm here for that as like, because I love when there's a little announcer sidecar show going on

Speaker 7 to a big game. And so, I mean, Romo is going to have to cover his tracks.
He's going to have to not just fill the vacant space with, you know, kind of a slobbery Mahomes monologue.

Speaker 7 And he's going to have to really bring it, not be annoying. I mean, he's admitted to knowing that he does this.
And so, God, it's going to be so fun. And just, you know, I like the matchup.

Speaker 7 I mean, can the Chiefs use those athletic linebackers to get after the Colts and to keep Jonathan Taylor in the backfield, make him pass block? I love the whole thing. So let's go.

Speaker 1 You know what I'm fascinated? I think the Chiefs are, I know a lot of people are burnt out on the Chiefs.

Speaker 1 And I think that's part of the reason people are burnt out on Romo is because he is so slobbering and is affectionate of the Chiefs. It almost compounds the issue.
And he does so many of the games.

Speaker 1 But on the Chiefs side, they're just such an interesting team to be

Speaker 1 winless in one score games after going undefeated in one score games. Mike Sando threw up a good tweet.

Speaker 1 The Chiefs are better. The Chiefs are better this year than they were last year.
You look at almost every metric. They're a better football team.
They are

Speaker 1 scoring more points. They're allowing less points.
Their margin of victory is higher. Their offensive EPA higher.
Their defensive EPA is essentially identical. Their turnover margin is better.

Speaker 1 They're in the plus as opposed to the minus.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 win-loss-wise,

Speaker 1 they're five and five, and they were nine and one at this time last year. And there was a good piece that accompanied that tweet in the athletic this week by Jesse Newell.

Speaker 1 The 2025 Chiefs are trending to be one of the most unclutch NFL teams ever. And, you know, clutch, what is clutch, right?

Speaker 1 It could feel like it's just kind of narrative nonsense, but the article does a good job, like setting up situations throughout this season. Like the Chiefs are 0-5 this season in one score games.

Speaker 1 A deeper dive illuminates the issue. Troop Media provided data.
The service allows us to search for regular season plays with the following criteria of the season.

Speaker 1 When the score was within eight points, either way, drives that start in the final five minutes of regulation, only non-kneel-down snaps. Last season, the Chiefs were just fine in those situations.

Speaker 1 They were 13th amongst NFL teams, and so not even great at them, and they still had all that luck go their way. This season, they are at the bottom of the league in every close and late scenario.

Speaker 1 On offense, a train wreck. On defense, not much better.
So not only is Mahomes and the offense not having the big plays, and you saw it in Denver last year.

Speaker 1 last week when they took over with four minutes to play and went three and out and then lost the game. The defense can't get off the field.

Speaker 1 The last game was like, in a nutshell, perfect because you had the meltdown, not the meltdown of the offense, but the failure of the offense to go on a four-minute drill drive there to end the game.

Speaker 1 And then the defense is a third and 17

Speaker 1 after that. Get off the field.
No, they allow Nick's out of the pocket and he hits Sutton for the big completion that sets up the game-winning field goal. So it's not luck, but it is a stark change.

Speaker 1 And I guess my only thought to this is, boys, is it doesn't feel sustainable sustainable this way either. I feel like the Chiefs are going to eventually start winning some of these games.

Speaker 2 It just hasn't happened yet.

Speaker 1 And that's stunning to me. It's a crazy storyline.

Speaker 2 It's if you were to pair this whole statistical reality with any team in the league, the Chiefs would be the team you picked last in that category for what their history has been. It does feel like in

Speaker 2 it does feel like it's got to shift and turn, and that this, that, you know, five weeks from now, this won't be the same storyline.

Speaker 2 But it's just such an unusual place for them to be in because the coaching staff you trust deeply to do the right thing in those final minutes.

Speaker 2 And the players and the quarterback, and it's not happening. And it's like if they were to fall to the Colts, who, you know, the Colts punished their last opponent with Jonathan Taylor across the sea.

Speaker 2 They fall to five and six.

Speaker 2 It's easier just to take and accept the idea that maybe Kansas City has that kind of season where we're writing about them in the summer saying they're back, all that stuff just didn't go their way, they didn't make the playoffs.

Speaker 2 But five and six is a rough, would be a rough place to be.

Speaker 1 But there's a difference, right?

Speaker 1 Like the, when you say that, that type of storyline for the summer notebooks, notebook leads, is the team that gets swallowed up by injuries and all of their dysfunction.

Speaker 1 They're actually statistically an excellent team that has no idea how to close out a game, despite the fact that it's still the same core players and the same team.

Speaker 2 Same thing goes to miss the playoffs, I say.

Speaker 2 It's a weird season if they are a better team but

Speaker 2 keep losing games here.

Speaker 1 I'm just saying there's a different, I mean, it's just, yeah, it's odd and very, for this team, Connor, to be the team that's dealing with this anomaly is stunning to me.

Speaker 7 Do you think it's just a matter of them being in so many close games and Mahomes unwittingly, and this can happen to any quarterback, behaving in similar ways and having similar patterns to the point where tendencies are such that you can have a better chance of predicting the plays on a defensive side, right?

Speaker 7 And this happened to Brady before they had to evolve their offense. And remember, there were multiple evolutions of that New England offense.
There was the no-huddle years.

Speaker 7 There was the fullback years. There was all these different eras to compensate for, I think, when times when they found themselves in a rut.

Speaker 7 Two things here that I think are being overlooked in this game. The Chiefs can still win with just those bodies, Rashi Rice and Xavier Worthy, and going motion crazy.

Speaker 7 The Colts are really bad defensively matching up against motion-heavy heavy teams. So I would keep an eye on that.

Speaker 7 And the Chiefs are really good at limiting explosive plays and explosive runs. So if you don't have that big Jonathan Taylor breakaway game, you're going to put the ball in Daniel Jones's court again.

Speaker 7 And remember, these last couple of weeks, we haven't really been sure about what we've seen in that regard. So I think that's another reason why this is quad box worthy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the Colts have eight. turnovers in the last two games.
I do want to see with an extra, you know, a fortnight of preparation, like Sauce Gardner, what does he look like this time around?

Speaker 2 Because it wasn't an impressive first game. They may get Charvarius Ward back.
That changes that defense if the two of them are on the field and you get the right version of Sauce Gardner.

Speaker 1 I love the Chiefs in this game. I loved the Chiefs last week against Denver, too.

Speaker 1 I probably loved them two or three of the other times or four or five of the other times where they had a game that seemed even on paper or close.

Speaker 1 And I said, the Chiefs will be the one that makes the play in the end. But this year, the other team is making the play every time.
I do think it will be a close game.

Speaker 1 They're due.

Speaker 1 They're due. Or they're not.
I don't know. Next up in the quad box, Justin.
I mean, it's just like throw your hands up. It's good.

Speaker 5 Yeah, next up in the quad box, Mark's options will be pretty dang limited, but that's up to him to find the right problem.

Speaker 1 That's all Sess Dogs problem. Thanks for the preface.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I got you.

Speaker 5 I'm going to go Minnesota Vikings, number 21 in the HTC power rankings at 4-6, at the number 9, 9, not 10, thanks to Connor's ranking of the Chiefs. Number 9, Green Bay Packers at 6-3-1.

Speaker 5 Joe Davis, Greg Olson on the call. Nice NFC North November matchup.
This feels like football. I want to see J.J.
McCarthy because good or bad, he's been intriguing at the very least.

Speaker 5 And this Packers team, you know, they've been up and down and not fulfilling maybe the expectations we all had.

Speaker 5 Can they go win a very important divisional game here and keep themselves, you know, in the race for the division with the Bears on top?

Speaker 1 J.J. McCarthy spoke this week to the media about

Speaker 1 the changes and the challenges he's had. And I think it got picked up in some places and spun in a way that I didn't think was necessarily fair to him.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to recall what the exact wording was, but

Speaker 5 about his fundamentals, The way I've been taught to play quarterback is very different from how they're teaching me he's rewiring neurological pathways.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and like I was like, all right, all right, we get it. You went to Michigan.
Cool.

Speaker 1 But like, I get it. He's being real and he's saying this is this is different the way I was taught and I have to learn this way or I'm not going to be successful.

Speaker 1 And that's fine. But he also had this to say.

Speaker 9 I kind of make the analogy of just like, you know, a cork about to come off a bottle.

Speaker 9 Just understanding that it's, you know, one to three little things that I need to change about my game that is going to make a huge difference in the outcome of every single drive in the game.

Speaker 9 So, yeah, I feel like it's really close, but it all comes down to the consistency of the fundamentals and the little details.

Speaker 1 I mean, listen, I don't want any analogies, I don't want any alter egos. Don't tell me how close you are to the cork exploding.
Ah,

Speaker 1 like, make throw a pass straight. I mean, his,

Speaker 1 his, the data for um, JJ McCarthy, not just completion percentage, but his accurate passing. He can't throw straight right now.

Speaker 1 And the offense, you, there's a reason why you're seeing Justin Jefferson and others looking frustrated. The plays are there, um, and they just he can't make them right now.

Speaker 1 So, is that something he can fix over the last six weeks? Sure, he could, uh, but again, this is a team without a backup plan. Um, so if he doesn't, the team goes down in flames, Connor.

Speaker 7 When, and just don't worry about shouting over each other, everybody at once.

Speaker 7 When is the last time a quarterback has come out and said, I don't normally learn this way, I don't normally play this way, and I'm trying to learn this new way that my coach is foisting upon me.

Speaker 7 How many of those guys have had an epiphany after some period of time and magically learned the system? One, two, three, finging nobody.

Speaker 7 Like, either meet him at his level, okay, and teach him the way that he learned this offense at Michigan or move on. I give Kyle Shanahan a ton of credit for that.
Shanahan had a rulebook.

Speaker 1 He's like, I need my quarterbacks to go A, B, C, D, E, F after the snap.

Speaker 7 You have to be a post-snap processor.

Speaker 1 Trey Lance said, okay, I can't do that.

Speaker 7 So Kyle Shanahan said, get your ass out of me.

Speaker 1 I'm going to start Brock Purdy. Yeah.

Speaker 7 Like, we don't,

Speaker 7 you don't relearn neural pathway. I don't know what that means, but that's not possible.

Speaker 7 So we either break down the way that we coach or we start warming up somebody else because this storyline is exhausting.

Speaker 7 And I'm not going to do a whole summer about like, oh, they spent time at the beach together.

Speaker 7 That. It's not going to work.

Speaker 1 And I'm not, no, no. I'm not doing it.
No. You've been in the game too long, Connor, because you know that's exactly what's coming.
Neurological pathways will be cleared for 2026, July.

Speaker 7 Do you know how many times, like, covering the Jets and calling like neurologists and being like, yeah, Tim Tebow can be a behind, but drop back processor. No, like, that's just a waste of my time.

Speaker 7 And it's a waste of all of your time. And I'm not comparing him to Tim Tebow.
Don't do that. But it's just, you guys know what I'm talking about.
He learned a certain way under Harbaugh at Michigan.

Speaker 7 And if Kevin O'Connell can't replicate that, then it's time to get rid of him and get someone else. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I'll ask the follow-up to that.

Speaker 1 If that means the coaching staff has to come down to, I don't even know if it's coming down, maybe just moving over to a different pew in the church to teach it the way he can process it uh do that or are you insinuating that he doesn't he doesn't have that and he's never going to have it are you are you out on jj already connor i'm not out on nine but let's all see where you like last sunday you were writing seed poems about it on our text threads i'm i'm entirely supportive of this boy while also noting the fact that we're already in a trouble zone from a narrative perspective.

Speaker 7 And Lest we forget came from a college that knew every single play that the opponent was running for over the course of three years before they ran it.

Speaker 7 So let's just, let's just exist here and also support the boy. We can do those two things at once.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I just want to say that. God knows he needs some support in his life.
He's never had it. He's never had the structure and privilege that he's afforded on this show from Sessler and or.

Speaker 2 Well, had he, let's say he had not unfurled that quote with the neurological pathways, et cetera, right?

Speaker 2 Aren't we back in a place where we like, this is a not to be basic about it, but this guy's had a handful of starts and he's talking about the light switch going on at some point.

Speaker 2 I don't know, the cork in the bottle business, but like he's, he's acknowledging that he's probably not seeing the field, not operating and making decisions the way he would like.

Speaker 2 I mean, I thought the second quote there, at least, was he's being real about the fact that he's frustrated.

Speaker 2 You know, I mean, to watch like Justin Jefferson's reaction, body language last week, that's when you start to get concerned. But I don't know how you pull the plug on this experiment.

Speaker 1 There's no pulling of the plug. That's what I was, I stopped doing it, but I was banging the table about that.

Speaker 1 They didn't give themselves a backup plan, so now they're going to live or die with this kid.

Speaker 1 All right, let's see. Let's see.
Let's see. On the Packers side of it, real quick,

Speaker 1 you have Josh Jacobs. Thankfully, he did not suffer a serious knee injury.
He doesn't need surgery, but his status is up in the air. He He didn't practice Wednesday.

Speaker 1 I'm not so sure about this week, but I don't know. I like the Packers a lot in this game, put it that way, a lot.
Maybe when we get to the blind locks, we're going to have a conversation. Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. One more.
Mark,

Speaker 1 here we are in the quad box. Close it out.

Speaker 2 I don't hate this. I'm going the number three New England Patriots at the number 24 Cincinnati Bengals season on the line.

Speaker 2 There is.

Speaker 1 Oh, look at Justin. What's he going to do? He's got so much power.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 thought is. Oh, he gets to the point.
I agree. I mean,

Speaker 2 there's not a lot out there.

Speaker 1 How does it feel, Mark, to earn a thumbs up, a nice pat on the head from the gravedigger? A man that goes around calling himself legend.

Speaker 2 It means a lot to me. It does.
It does.

Speaker 2 There is whispering that Joe Burrow, who is back on the practice field, could start

Speaker 2 this game. Right.
I think that is going to happen. And suddenly, like what you've been waiting for with the Cincinnati Bengals is upon us.

Speaker 2 I hate the opponent. I also hate the way that Cincinnati's defense is legitimately right now.
Our friend Aaron Schatz called it the, by DVOA standards, it has become the worst defense in history.

Speaker 2 So even with Burrow back, here we are a year later in the same basic, hideous melting pot of a situation where you can't trust the Bengals to do anything to help their quarterback in this offense.

Speaker 2 That to me is it because I think Drake May and Trayvion Henderson, who has absolutely looked dazzling weeks in a row now, this is becoming a balanced, dangerous offense.

Speaker 2 And you're going to have to find a way, Burrow or Flacco, to put up probably like 37 points for a chance to win this thing. At some point, the floor falls out.

Speaker 1 Remember, there's no Jamar Chase in this game. Suspended for spitting.
By the way, he

Speaker 1 appealed that suspension, and they said, no, bro, you literally spit on someone. And we take that very seriously, Connor.

Speaker 1 So he is not playing in this game. I don't know.
We'll see as we record this.

Speaker 1 We'll see where if Burrow actually plays. I kind of think he'll push hard to play

Speaker 1 because when you look at where the Bengals are at, and we don't need to

Speaker 1 re-litigate this, but when you blow the game to the Jets and then you blow the game game to the Bears, the season ended that week because now you're sitting right now at seven losses.

Speaker 1 You could afford one more loss and then get to nine, hypothetically, which you're not doing, but that's the, this is how I'm going through the Joe Burrow, Zach Taylor thought process.

Speaker 1 And so you have to make a decision. Are you going to bring back Joe Burrow

Speaker 1 a week early? You're going to risk potentially injuring the franchise to try to save a season that, frankly, I think is already lost.

Speaker 1 Even if Burrow played this weekend, he would be playing without Jamar Chase and without likely Trey Hendrickson. It's just, it's a bad team.
So just be smart about this. I hope they are.

Speaker 1 Burrow's my favorite player in the league. I would love to see him play this weekend.
But be smart. Please, Cincinnati.
I know it's not in your nature.

Speaker 2 And to your point about the season may already be a sunken ship, it's Patriots, Ravens, Bills, Ravens over the next month.

Speaker 1 Bye, bye.

Speaker 1 It's It's already too late.

Speaker 1 The Bears, Jets losses ended their season. If they had those in their back pocket, I could get excited about this.
We could have this conversation. I can't do it, Connor.
I think they blew it.

Speaker 1 That's it.

Speaker 7 And just to close the loop on this Chase thing, I think, you know, the example is clear now.

Speaker 7 If you're mad at somebody else, just stab them with a rusty shiv because it's the same as spitting on them suspension-wise. So you'll be fine.
Just really get your anger out. Like, try to get it.

Speaker 1 The NFL wouldn't smile upon a rusty shiv being inserted into someone either just to be clear but well it's just it's all one game because it's the same thing I mean this is the same NFL that put out a Jameis Winston reel the other day and labeled Jameis Winston a quote national treasure

Speaker 1 Google

Speaker 1 Wikipedia

Speaker 1 oh boy very fair but he didn't spit on anybody all right

Speaker 1 there you go quad box has been closed let's Let's take a break.

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Speaker 1 All right. We are back.
One more thing I meant to get to, so I'll get to it here is

Speaker 1 Cam Newton went on some dopey show.

Speaker 1 And the fact that someone pays Cam Newton to offer his opinion on anything

Speaker 1 boggles my mind.

Speaker 1 This guy, this guy's driven, he's driven me crazy for 12 years when he was a player. And he used to have this, he had this like

Speaker 1 the way it was when Cam was a player was like, you had to be very careful about what you said about Cam, or you could be labeled different things, even if you weren't.

Speaker 1 And that would happen. And he found that out firsthand.
He found that firsthand about criticizing his behavior. I remember there was a, I think it was a playoff loss

Speaker 2 against the Cardinals, I believe, or something like that.

Speaker 1 They went seven and nine and then eeked out a playoff

Speaker 1 win against the bad team. And then there was like wild celebrating on the sideline like they were a Super Bowl team.
And

Speaker 1 I had the gall to post critically about

Speaker 1 Newton

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 I got a ton of backlash based on one prominent personalities thought that this was perhaps motivated by something else, which it's not. It wasn't.
Newton was a great player.

Speaker 2 It blew up your weekend.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's a great player, but he's kind of a jackass. And

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 5 Remember when he went at Jordan Rodrigue?

Speaker 1 Yes. Right.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Of course. Yeah.
Jordan.

Speaker 7 I've been route running Jordan on that one.

Speaker 1 Jordan is one of the most knowledgeable reporters and NFL people in this country. And when she was a young up-and-coming beat reporter, yeah.

Speaker 1 Newton was very flippant and disregarded her analysis in the middle of a press conference, which led to a lot of bullshit that Jordan had to deal with.

Speaker 1 And Cam got, thankfully, got some criticism in that moment.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I just don't, I don't get this guy. Here is, he was on first take and he trashed Drake May and the Patriots, saying that they were fools gold and he was wearing this hat.

Speaker 1 I don't know how you take them seriously in that hat, but he was wearing this hat when he made those comments.

Speaker 1 And then Drake May was asked about what Cam Newton said on WEEI.

Speaker 14 Oh, no,

Speaker 14 I don't even,

Speaker 14 I don't even know what show he's on. I think they get paid to make remarks and

Speaker 14 make certain comments. So, you know, just worry about what people in our organization think and worry about what we think and my teammates think.
And everybody's going to have different opinions.

Speaker 14 So we should go out there on Sunday and worry about ourselves.

Speaker 2 Pretty much diagnosed the industry correctly there.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Here's how much of a pro, air quotes, Cam Newton is. So remember the Super Bowl when he just decided not to dive on a loose ball.
And then he started getting asked about it post-game.

Speaker 7 So in the post-game media room, there's the quarterback stanchion or whatever that he's at.

Speaker 7 And they were so worried about him, the Panthers, that behind the media, his offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach were standing there saying, don't freak out when they, like, like literally waving their hands.

Speaker 7 And I remember asking people about this. And then, of course, when he gets asked about diving on the football, he just gets up and leaves.

Speaker 7 And so, like, one of the softer personalities in the NFL finds a perfect home for his unique brand of bullshit. And this that we have to deal with.
This is just a mess.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, there are

Speaker 1 ex-players

Speaker 1 who have great opinions and that are worth sharing and listening to. And then there's Cam Newton.

Speaker 1 Let's see. Let's see.
Let's see. Let me defending the Patriots.
Oh, my God. What world do we live in?

Speaker 1 Late window. All right.
Late window is meh, but let's start with the number two in our power rankings, Philadelphia Eagles at the number 18 Cowboys.

Speaker 1 4-5- and 1. Burkhart and Brady on the call here.

Speaker 1 That harlot, that scorpion woman, Liz Franks strikes again. Lane Johnson out the next four to six weeks with a Liz Franks brain.
So that's going to be tough.

Speaker 1 And, you know, we'll ask Baldy about that a little bit later because offensive line play has been a major driver of Philadelphia's success on offense.

Speaker 1 There's also a little drama around Philadelphia, as has been the case really all season, it feels like. There's been a lot of A.J.
Brown stuff.

Speaker 1 Now there is a report out there that there are some inside the building that are frustrated by Jalen Hurts's

Speaker 1 play at quarterback, that he's leaving plays on the field and playing a more Jalen brand of football, like how he wants to play it. And that's leading, you know, you might actually be able to...

Speaker 1 And I, amongst many people, have gotten on A.J. Brown for perhaps coming off as selfish, but he might be just pissed at the quarterback this whole time, but he doesn't want to say that.

Speaker 1 Anyway, Jalen Hurts asked about

Speaker 1 whether the team's middling offense goes back to anything that he's doing or how his teammates might feel about him right now.

Speaker 8 I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised by anything.

Speaker 8 I mean, you know, this is kind of the nature of the position, like I said, but, you know, I put my energy and I put my focus on trying to go out there and do my best and trying to learn,

Speaker 8 trying to build, trying to take in the things that I can to improve.

Speaker 1 Connor, I feel like Jalen Hurts is one of those guys where these type of stories are not going to bother him.

Speaker 1 He seems to have a shield around him where this isn't going to get in his head, but that might not be a good thing either. Is there a possible schism there in Philly?

Speaker 7 I remember

Speaker 7 the year that they played the Chiefs the first time in the Super Bowl, it was in Arizona and Donovan McNabb lives out there.

Speaker 7 And so I went out to Donovan McNabb's house and we talked a little bit about him advising Jalen through this process and specifically with the Philadelphia media, the things that he wished he did differently and basically the instruction of building a total facade between yourself and these people.

Speaker 7 And even if it hurts your feelings to never show it, I can't imagine this doesn't hurt his feelings.

Speaker 7 However, he has become so effective at building up that wall at the instruction of other quarterbacks who have played that position that we're never going to know how he feels about it.

Speaker 7 But I will say this: every offensive coordinator that has come and gone through that building has dealt with headaches specific to Jalen because Jalen likes to see the field a certain way before he gets to snap the ball.

Speaker 7 And when Jalen's comfortable, the offense works better than when they try to do, like, you know, a lot of people be like, well, why don't you do a lot more motion? Why don't you do a lot more of this?

Speaker 7 Because it doesn't put Jalen in a place where he's comfortable to snap the ball. And so a lot of this could stem from just, hey, it's not Jalen enough for me.

Speaker 7 And so you kind of have to deal with the good and the bad of it. He's good enough to effectively move move the football and you got to deal with the rest of it.

Speaker 2 And they, you know, it's just weird because he's had to go through so many coordinator switches.

Speaker 2 And like last year, when you dotted in all the explosive plays and Saquon Barkley having a career year, those throws to A.J. Brown were happening, Devontae Smith.
They were happening.

Speaker 2 It was like, it just looks like it's a mysterious situation because it feels not as toxic as two years ago, but there's, we're back in this place where there are these whispers about the quarterback.

Speaker 2 The wide receivers are frustrated. Like, there's questions about the offensive coordinator.

Speaker 2 It's like you're arguably the best team in the league, but not because of your offense, because of the defense.

Speaker 1 Other things I like about this matchup, we talked about it a little bit, Mark, on Monday night.

Speaker 1 CeeDee Lamb and George Pickens making a statement that they could be the best one-two punch at wide receiver in the league.

Speaker 1 And you have obviously great young players and Cooper DeGene and Quinyon Mitchell on the other side. And how do they combat that? The Lane Johnson injury could have some serious legs here.

Speaker 1 This is a good stat from the athletics. Since 2013, Philadelphia ranks third in offensive EPA per play, with Johnson on the field, 28th when he's not on the field.

Speaker 1 So he's like one of those guys, as our buddy Damashek would say, a jenga piece on this offense.

Speaker 2 He really is.

Speaker 2 They have better depth there than they have in the past, but I do think at tackle, but I do think that's a very indicative stat. And again, I think you're leaning on this fascinating deep defense.

Speaker 2 To hold the Lions and the Packers to 16 combined points, like they broke the will of the Lions. You could see it.
It was one of those games where you could see it in Goff's eyes.

Speaker 2 It was like, we don't want to be here.

Speaker 2 And so Dallas is a pretty interesting challenge because of their wideouts, because of the fact that they've been arguably the best offense in the league at times.

Speaker 2 For that reason, I want to see if the Eagles can do it because if they have another defensive performance like they've had, that can guide them deep into January, even with the offense having whispers and issues about it.

Speaker 1 And this is what we talked about also on Monday, Connor, with the Cowboys. This is their season right here.
They're 4-5 and 1. And the next three weeks, home Eagles.

Speaker 1 Home Chiefs on Thanksgiving at Detroit. They got to find a way.
You can't get swept out of that.

Speaker 1 You can't just say we can beat bad teams like the Raiders and we'll get trashed by the good teams like these teams.

Speaker 1 If you want to make a case that you're a playoff team, you got to find a way to win at least one of those games. So here's their first opportunity on Philly.
Put a bow on it, Connor.

Speaker 7 Yeah, and we remember, go all the way back to week one, before this defense completely collapsed and fell through the floor.

Speaker 7 The Cowboys' rush defense against Philly was one of the highest graded rush defenses of that week. If you took Jalen Hurts' rushes out of it, Saquon Barkley was averaging like 1.9 yards of carry.

Speaker 7 Materially worse Eagles offensive line, materially better Cowboys' defensive line. This matchup favors Dallas, and they have to win this game.

Speaker 1 And last note, yes, the original Spitgate, Jalen Carter, ejected before the first play from Scrimmage that Thursday night opener.

Speaker 1 So he'll get a chance at Dallas for the first time this year and hopefully keep the saliva inside his body.

Speaker 2 Within the mouth.

Speaker 1 Yeah, within the mouth area. All right, let's do one more game from this late window because that is clearly the best game.

Speaker 1 Let's go with number 16, Jacksonville Jaguars, 6-4 at the number 26 Arizona Cardinals,

Speaker 1 3-7. Didas, Archolette on the call.

Speaker 1 Hmm.

Speaker 1 Start on the Arizona side just because it feels like you're getting into dark territory, Under Siege 2, dark territory. Seagal on the train.
I mean, that's a bad, it's a bad movie, but

Speaker 1 it's a rewatchable film that comes on TNT. I'm watching 30 to 40 minutes of it.

Speaker 1 Seagal already starting to put on weight at that stage. His fame

Speaker 1 had led to an ego that was swelling and a body that maybe wasn't cashing the checks like it used to.

Speaker 1 He does like a slow-motion run through a train.

Speaker 1 And you see, wow, he runs funny. Because he kind of has the arms going out.
Not a hair out of place. Under Siege 2, Dark Territory.
All right.

Speaker 1 What was I talking about? Oh, yeah, the Cardinals. Jonathan Gannon, he's in Dark Territory on how the hot seat rumors have hit him.

Speaker 15 Yeah, not a controllable for me.

Speaker 15 I didn't hire myself. I'm not going to fire myself.
So

Speaker 15 seriously, no, I know it comes up. That's the business we're in.
If you don't want to be in that business, we laugh, we joke, go work somewhere else.

Speaker 15 I'm going to control the controllables for myself. You know, I come to work and do the best job that I can and try to get our team in position to win a game.

Speaker 1 Oh, that sounds like to me, Cecil, our coach that knows he is five weeks away from two years paid vacation in Fiji, baby.

Speaker 2 It feels pretty inevitable.

Speaker 2 Whatever they could brag about or point to in terms of progress has fallen off a cliff.

Speaker 2 And Connor, I can only imagine what happens inside a building when it's very clear that, you know, tens or even hundreds of people are going to lose their job.

Speaker 2 And it's like, shit, are you starting to look at housing markets and selling your house? It's got to be a like things don't get better. They become less stable.

Speaker 7 I, I, I always used to think so. And I think to some degree that that's true.

Speaker 7 But the profession is so fatalistic that there are absolutely coaches that go into every season thinking, I got to sell my condo or I'm not going to renew my lease this year.

Speaker 7 And there are coaches who are like, like, I'm not going to say the team, but there was a, there was like a, like, a group of a staff in one place a couple of years ago that like group canceled like their membership to like this pool club that like all their kids were playing at in like August because they were like, yeah, we're not going to be here next year.

Speaker 1 And they were right.

Speaker 7 So I do think that while there's a possibility to do the job well despite all of this,

Speaker 7 but at the same time, you're facing a Jaguars team that I think matches up well. They split the run between ETN and Tutin last week, and I thought it worked really well.

Speaker 7 Arizona's just banged up in that interior, and it might just be a tough ask at this point.

Speaker 7 I mean, sometimes these situations are out of your control in a lot of ways, but in Arizona in specific, yeah.

Speaker 2 And I don't think they can ask Jacoby Brissette to throw the ball 57 times. Oh, my God, on Sunday.
He had an NFL record 47 completions.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Somebody was like, I saw. Somebody tweeted at me or something.
Like, I can't believe you didn't talk about that. I watched that game.
It didn't matter.

Speaker 1 It wasn't deep

Speaker 1 or anything.

Speaker 1 It doesn't matter how many completions he had the game was not a game they were down like 30 points or something it's like throw as much as you want great for fantasy but jake brisket am i supposed to act like that was somehow a heroic game by jake brisket like throwing a bunch of passes while team's ass was getting smoked let's calm down

Speaker 2 I don't think heroes, I don't think people were pointing to heroics. It was sort of like a car crash, but unsustainable.

Speaker 1 I mean, they've lost so many running backs. Didn't they lose another one now? I mean, they are on like their fifth running back.

Speaker 1 What is it? Just give it to Jake and let him sling it. By the way, they're not going to have Marvin Harrison, it looks like for another week.
Not a surprise. The appendix situation there sounds dicey.

Speaker 1 On the Jaguars side, because we should give the Jags a little bit more love. They're the team that matters here.

Speaker 1 We'll talk about Trevor Lawrence a little bit with Baldy, but it feels like now or never for

Speaker 1 Brian Thomas.

Speaker 1 He's missed two weeks with an ankle. They managed that well.
They got a blowout win without him against the Chargers. He needs to step up and be that guy.

Speaker 1 If we're going to take the Jaguars serious, if we're going to think that Trevor Lawrence has a good second act in him this season, they need their number one wide receiver back, not the guy that's dropping everything and avoiding contact.

Speaker 1 Like, let's see if that guy reappears. It's a lingering mystery for both the Jaguars and my fantasy team.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Let's see. All right.
Connor, it's time to go make a sandwich. By the way, where are we at? Where are we at on the sandwich content? Update.
Update. Sandwich content.

Speaker 1 No comment.

Speaker 1 You're going to no comment us? You can no comment us if it's an uncomfortable situation.

Speaker 7 I would just say this, and I would hope that everyone would understand that there's...

Speaker 7 there's like all this stuff that after you're done with with the meat and potatoes of the day there's like a there's like a secondary checklist where it's like okay, do I have time to call my mom?

Speaker 7 I missed like two calls from mom. You know, do I have time to write that birthday card out?

Speaker 7 You know, all this stuff. And the sandwich is kind of floating in there.
And I'll just say that

Speaker 7 it's often victim of, I can get about 30 minutes of FIFA in before I collapse on the couch and fall asleep. So it's

Speaker 1 also, originally, I thought it was your wife that was the biggest impediment because she doesn't want to be involved with this project.

Speaker 1 But now you're saying like video video games, Connor alone time, video games is ahead of it. I don't think we're getting the content, Mark.
I don't think we're getting the sandwich content.

Speaker 2 It seems to have

Speaker 2 multi-prongs when it comes to problematic parts of why it's not being produced.

Speaker 2 Starting with Connor's desire to do it, I think.

Speaker 7 Well, I think Connor me time coincides with... wife me time.
And then, so if she's on the couch, she's doing something that she wants to do for the night to then say, can you get up real quick?

Speaker 7 But real quick means probably about 40 minutes because I'm a perfectionist and we got to get the lighting right on the table and we got to probably sweep off whatever the kids were doing on the table so we can get it right right under the light and stuff like that.

Speaker 7 So about 45 minutes of your me time to film me making a sandwich.

Speaker 1 Right. Okay.
How about this? Let's make it a business proposition. Okay.
Mark, we run this small business.

Speaker 1 Is there a price? Would your wife accept a financial

Speaker 2 nice gift certificate?

Speaker 1 Yeah, a little donation, a little Venmo action. Like, what would it take? Yeah, run it by her and see.
We're just curious, what's the number?

Speaker 1 Like, what's the number that gets her holding an iPhone for four minutes?

Speaker 2 And I don't doubt that Connor is a perfectionist, but I think a perfectionist would have produced the content about three and a half weeks ago.

Speaker 1 So you're just throwing that out there, Bear. Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Let's go get your sandwich, Connor.
Enjoy it, and let's throw it to our Baldi conversation.

Speaker 1 Okay, welcome back. We're joined by Odyssey NFL Insider Brian Baldinger, host of the Best Football Show podcast.

Speaker 1 Insider calls or are, of course, brought to you by Nationwide for your insurance and financial needs. Nationwide is on your side.
Baldy, how the hell are you, bud?

Speaker 4 I'm super fantastic, like really good. I'm

Speaker 4 kind of prepping for this big college game next Friday, Texas, Texas A ⁇ M. So I'm watching some of these kids that are going to be playing in the NFL next year.
They're pretty good.

Speaker 4 So kind of getting ready for that, getting ready for Kansas City, Indianapolis on Sunday.

Speaker 4 You know, I mean, it's just, it's just a good time of the year.

Speaker 1 Where do you come down? Because I'm a Jets fan, Mark's a Browns fan.

Speaker 1 Where do you come down on this quarterback class, this college quarterback class? Like a team like the Jets or the Browns, I believe, multiple first-round picks after 26.

Speaker 1 Better to wait it out, or do you think there could be gold in the 26 class?

Speaker 4 I don't know yet because

Speaker 4 I've seen Mendoza, but I haven't really studied him

Speaker 4 that hard. I haven't really studied a lot of these guys.

Speaker 4 And I don't know, honestly,

Speaker 4 which guys are coming out yet, which guys are staying.

Speaker 4 I just got an invite to the senior bowl. I don't know who's coming and who's not coming right now.

Speaker 4 I was at Texas Tech a couple weeks ago. They've got a defensive lineman making $4 million a year.
He's not going to make $4 million as a rookie in the NFL.

Speaker 4 It's almost more incentive to stay in college and kind of do what Bo Nicks did, just play a bunch of years and build your resume up.

Speaker 4 I mean,

Speaker 4 there there's an option to do that the way they're paying some of these guys.

Speaker 1 You probably think about that sometimes when you're laying in bed, Baldi. I could have been paid to play for a lot of people.

Speaker 4 I don't know everything about money. You know, money is like the least of my important things.
Like,

Speaker 4 I wear t-shirts that people give me for free.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't have any,

Speaker 4 I don't have

Speaker 9 a lot of needs out there.

Speaker 1 You like Sessler, low overhead. Just live your life overhead.
Low overhead, man. Only Baldi's way cooler.
You know, he serves. He's got a woman in every city.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's differences that's you know anyway let's get to it all right eagles cowboys love the game love n of cast battles cowboys in an interesting inflection point in their season where they get their confidence up against the bad raiders team yep and now they get the eagles coming off you know the other primetime game uh from week 11 where they made the lions uh look silly at times uh defense versus offense who do you like in this one i like the eagles defense i just think they're nasty they're really nasty Like, Jalen Phillips is a perfect fit.

Speaker 4 Nolan Smith is back. Jalen Carter is healthy.
I mean,

Speaker 4 he just has an appetite for destruction.

Speaker 4 You know, Nicoby Dean is that middle linebacker. Like, they're, like, I know Dallas, you know, they got their wideouts and Dak's having a good season.
They haven't beaten a good team yet. And so

Speaker 4 I like to see the offense, which is improved.

Speaker 4 I like to see the offense against an elite defense.

Speaker 4 And then the improved defense with all personnel, whether it's DeMarvian Overshone or Logan Wilson or Quinn Williams, whatever, should have the cloudy. I mean, they've rebuilt this defense

Speaker 4 on the fly here. I'd like to see how they could come together against an offense that's really struggling to score points, to move the football.
Nobody has more three and outs than the Eagles.

Speaker 4 And so they... They take a long nap during some of these games.

Speaker 4 Let's see if Dallas can close the gap here.

Speaker 2 Do you worry from the Eagles' offensive side of things that you're without Lane Johnson?

Speaker 2 And if you look at the splits and how they have performed, they've obviously been an up and down operation on offense to begin with, but it really looks different in terms of their yards, you know, third down percentage, everything they do when Lane Johnson's not in the game.

Speaker 2 Does that drastically change this

Speaker 2 environment for the Eagles?

Speaker 4 Not this year. And only because Fred Johnson is now the backup.

Speaker 4 Fred's a really good player. And

Speaker 4 he hasn't, you know, he was there last year for a game when Lane was out. But, I mean, for the most part, they've had subservient players replace Lane.

Speaker 4 I'm not saying Fred is, nobody's Lane, but I mean, he'll play better than the other backups that have filled in for Lane. So

Speaker 4 I have faith in him. They do lose a little bit when Fred was the third tackle in a lot of different situations.
Now Matt Pryor is that guy. And Matt's, you know,

Speaker 4 he's a human eclipse. He's huge.

Speaker 4 He doesn't have the mobility that some of these other guys have, but he's got his role. So

Speaker 4 I don't feel as bad as I used to feel when Lane was out. I feel like Fred actually played really well last week against Detroit when Lane went out.

Speaker 1 I don't know why he comes up so much in our segments, Baldi, but maybe I'm just fascinated by him.

Speaker 1 Jeff George, former first overall pick, the quarterback that you and perhaps other cults of the day clashed with at times.

Speaker 1 There's that report out there about Jalen Hurts and some tension inside the locker room because Jalen is sometimes leaving plays out in the field, afraid to kind of rip it in there.

Speaker 1 He prefers something a little more controlled, playing, I think the wording was playing his game,

Speaker 1 playing his way. Is that a real thing that can creep into an offensive scheme? And how divisive can that be internally?

Speaker 4 I like Jeff George. I stole his girlfriend, basically,

Speaker 4 one night.

Speaker 4 We know.

Speaker 1 We love that stuff.

Speaker 4 That's going to be a good thing for me. Jeff didn't seem to mind too bad.

Speaker 4 I like playing with Jeff. Man, that guy had a golden arm.
But, you know, I don't know. I mean, I'm not over at Novacare.

Speaker 4 I hear all the same reports here over in South Jersey, and I'm friends with a lot of guys on the team.

Speaker 4 I just feel honestly like the only thing different from a year ago is Saquon's not having the year that he's having. But really,

Speaker 4 I think Jalen was playing the same way that he played last year, even with Kellen Moore calling the place. Like, he's not throwing the ball.
He's got one interception.

Speaker 4 Like, he's not throwing the ball into harm's way. He's just not going to pull the trigger.

Speaker 4 And if their defense is playing as good as they are, and they're winning closed games, he doesn't really care about style points. Like, he's just not going to be, he's just not going to take chances.

Speaker 4 And, you know, does that, it makes the offense look insufferable. Like, it's hard to watch.
Like, that's worthless, like, study. And I already know what's going to happen.

Speaker 4 Like, I put a play on breaks down the other day. I mean, Lane's blocking, I don't know, you know, Hutchinson.
He's blocking him for eight and a half seconds. Like, it's absurd.

Speaker 4 You know, the right guard's got nothing to do. He's just three-man rush.
He's like, oh, Lane's fine. The center's fine.

Speaker 4 The right guard's running in a circle, you know, and the quarterback's still holding the ball. I'm like, I texted Lane.
I'm like, this is ridiculous. It's absurd.
But

Speaker 4 that's the way he's going to play, no matter what the play is called.

Speaker 4 I can see plays where, yes, A.J. Brown, curl, cover three, come back,

Speaker 4 nine-yard completion, pretty easy stuff. Like he's not making that.
he's generally not going to make that throw.

Speaker 1 You're going to tell us what Lane texted back.

Speaker 1 Probably not. Probably not.

Speaker 1 Insider calls are brought to you by Nationwide for your insurance and financial needs. Nationwide's on your side.

Speaker 2 I want to shift gears to

Speaker 2 the state of Trevor Lawrence. I find him to be a pretty beguiling offering from week to week.

Speaker 2 And, you know, you can look at what they did last week, and it was really, it's that ground game that caused so much destruction inside of a contest where Lawrence did not look like he had all the answers.

Speaker 2 And I know, you know, he's been through a lot of different offenses, but Liam Cohen took over Baker Mayfield, and we got this incredibly evolved version of Baker.

Speaker 2 It doesn't seem like it's a week-to-week thing with Lawrence. Like, what do you see when you watch his game and where he's at in his career?

Speaker 4 Well, there was not a lot of consistency to it. You're right.
They ran the ball 47 times last week. They ran the same split zone to the right and to the left.

Speaker 4 Like, you get dizzy going right, left, right, left. I mean, that's what they did.

Speaker 4 But I think if you're asking Trevor Lawrence for the rest of the season or next season to go win a game, don't put the team on your shoulders, go win it. Like,

Speaker 4 I don't think he could do that on any consistent basis. So that's that.
He's just not the most accurate guy. And, you know, he doesn't throw the ball with a great deal of touch.

Speaker 4 It doesn't help that Brian Thomas has gone backwards.

Speaker 4 You know, and you can make excuses for all the different Jacobi comes in, all the different tight ends, you know, is out. All that stuff is true.
But

Speaker 4 he just is not as accurate as you need to be in big throws, you know, tight window throws. And he struggles with that a great deal.

Speaker 1 At this point, when you're this deep into your career, do you see this as having as many play callers as he's had some guys of high esteem?

Speaker 1 Obviously, we just talked about who his coach is now and the success he's had. Do you think we're at the point where this is who Trevor Lawrence is?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I do. I feel like it is.
And I like,

Speaker 4 I mean, I probably shouldn't say this, but I remember last summer I was at training camp.

Speaker 4 And so I'm down in the field, and they had this drill with the quarterbacks where they were throwing into this net from, I don't know, 30 yards away.

Speaker 4 And he could not put the ball in the net, you know, like everybody else is putting the ball in the net. Like I got, I was filming it.

Speaker 4 I finally found one where the ball went in the net, you know, and I posted that one, like, post it. You know, but like, you know, it's not, I just don't think, like, it's the old drill.

Speaker 4 Like, if you put the tire in the backyard and hung it from a tree, is that guy going to throw it through the tire? Like, I don't know if,

Speaker 4 I thought I saw the same things at Clemson. He was just such a great athlete and he had such great athletes around him.
But I feel like he struggles with just naturally. born

Speaker 4 accuracy. And I know Josh Allen has improved his.
A few quarterbacks have improved it.

Speaker 4 But by and large, I don't know if it's something that players can really improve baker is a naturally accurate guy especially on the deep bowl like he's always been that guy coming out of high school in austin he's been accurate so i feel like what liam did with baker i i he just needed stability around him and a good team around him and he could just be fiery competitive like he is and he could just make things happen i don't he does trevor doesn't really play that way Yeah, and he's a prisoner of expectations.

Speaker 1 I mean, he was touted as the next Peyton Manning, and he's not that. And now the Jags, they paid him, though.
They paid him. And they said, we think there's an unlocked level.

Speaker 1 And then they went and handpicked the guy to coach him here that would unlock it. Not yet.
Finally, Baldi, you mentioned the term appetite for destruction. Your

Speaker 1 favorite 80s hard rock album.

Speaker 4 Well, whatever. I mean, just.
Pick an ACDC album, you know? Pick a Metallica album.

Speaker 4 I saw, like this is how old I am too but I remember going I was in camp with the Buffalo Bills and Guns n' Roses was the band and Metallica was the warm-up band oh yeah Metallica was a warm-up band like that's hard but yet in 1992

Speaker 4 92 91 92 Metallica was a warm-up band and that that mosh pit like that was more dangerous than any drill we did in Buffalo that summer like I I got the hell out of that place, man. Like, it was nuts.

Speaker 4 But, like, I can still hear that concert in my head. And that was at, you know, at Piland State, whatever they call that thing now.
But that was at the Rich, you know, back then.

Speaker 4 And that was, that was, that was a great show.

Speaker 1 I mean, I've heard about that. My brother is a massive GNR fan.
And the tour you're referring to was actually a co-headlining tour ball

Speaker 1 92. It was GNR touring on the Use Your Illusion 1 and 2.
and Metallica was on that, I guess, the Black album they were touring on. I mean, that's a hell of a time to catch those bands, my man.

Speaker 4 And they were like in their prime.

Speaker 4 I mean, Metallica could still, I mean, I remember being in Tampa this summer, and Jason Light, I just went to see the practice one day, and Jason Light was like, hey, right across the street, Baldy, like, you know, Metallica's playing if you want to come.

Speaker 4 I'm like, don't do that to me, man.

Speaker 4 Don't tell me to go to Metallica with you today. I'll be worthless tomorrow.

Speaker 2 I feel like Baldy would have a better chance in a mosh pit than you and I, Dan. That's just my.

Speaker 1 I think when Baldy said that, my guess is that for most of us, be like, well, I can't get injured. Like, I don't want to end up in the newspapers or lose my salaries.

Speaker 1 Like, no, Baldi's like, I don't want to get charged with manslaughter. I think that's.

Speaker 4 It's like running with the bulls in Pamplona. Like, you just don't want to be in that ring like that.

Speaker 1 Let's see. You said it was when you were in Buffalo?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 So it was 90. 92.

Speaker 1 I'll tell you exactly when it was, Baldy. Okay.
It was July 25th, 1992, at Rich Stadium.

Speaker 4 Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 Rich Stadium.

Speaker 4 Yeah, and we were in training camp. So

Speaker 4 we were in, what's that town? Fredonia?

Speaker 1 Fredonia, New York?

Speaker 1 My buddy went to college up there.

Speaker 4 Was it Fredonia?

Speaker 1 It would have been.

Speaker 1 No, it would have been at Orchard Park. It was in the Bills Stadium.

Speaker 4 No, no, no. The packet was there.
But we were in training camp already.

Speaker 1 Oh, yes, yes. That makes sense.
Yep. It's a state university there.

Speaker 4 It was basically the Jim Kelly show. Like, what were we going to do at night? And how was Jim Kelly going to entertain this team? Because like those stories are just legendary, man.

Speaker 1 And final note, Axel Rose wanted

Speaker 1 Faith No More opened for those bands. Axel Rose wanted Nirvana to open, but Kurt Cobain said, thanks, but no thanks.
So it could have been even more epic.

Speaker 4 I didn't know that sidebar to that. That's good.

Speaker 1 Good night, right.

Speaker 1 Baldy, have a great weekend. Okay, you two guys.

Speaker 4 Yep. I'll talk to you next week.

Speaker 1 That was Odyssey NFL Insider Brian Baldinger, host of the Best Football Show podcast. Insider Calls are brought to you by Nationwide for your insurance and financial needs.
Nationwide is on your side.

Speaker 1 Ah, we're back.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Metallica, guns and roses.

Speaker 2 What has he not been up to and what has he not accomplished?

Speaker 1 Man, I haven't been. The only double bill that would rock that hard

Speaker 1 would probably be

Speaker 1 the Counting Crows Wallflowers show at Jones Beach

Speaker 1 in 98. I mean, when I talk about rock, rock and roll.
I mean,

Speaker 2 I saw,

Speaker 2 there was that year that I lived in Arizona and it was hotter than Iraq, they said, when I was there. And I went to a double bill of the counting crows being asked to open for John Mayer,

Speaker 2 maybe 2004 or something. And the thing I'll never forget.

Speaker 1 Fannies must go.

Speaker 2 It's an outdoor venue. It was hotter than hell.
And the Crows got like three songs in. He's like, all right, I don't know how you people live here.
It's way too hot.

Speaker 2 We're going to wrap this up much earlier than planned.

Speaker 2 And it's like, I drove an hour to go see these guys, and they did like a 20-minute set and hit the road because they were pissed off that John Mayer was the lead.

Speaker 1 Is that

Speaker 1 amazing? You have solid reporting on that?

Speaker 2 That was what came out of it that there was some display. Well, no, they want to be the centerpiece, but they were,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 they cut the plug on it.

Speaker 1 They cut the plug. Classic cut the plug scenario in the desert.

Speaker 1 Anyway, great to hear from Baldy on that.

Speaker 1 All right. The Earthlings perform their rock and roll music, but not up to my standards.

Speaker 1 I was told it would be an 87-minute showing, but it was substantially less. Is there a cash refund possibility?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I didn't seek out cash refund, but I think it's a fair thing to be slightly agitated at.

Speaker 1 The consumer comes first, Mark Zessler. You're right.
All right, let's roll on. Let's check out the other ones.
These are the games that didn't quite make the cut earlier in the show.

Speaker 1 Sorry for your bad luck. Let's start with the number 28 New York Jets 2 and 8 at the number 13 Baltimore Ravens 5 and 5.

Speaker 1 The Jets are indeed making a quarterback change, benching Justin Fields in favor of veteran Tyrod Taylor. Something you got to do there, Connor.

Speaker 1 I mean, it reminded me a lot of late period Rex Ryan Geno Smith, where they wouldn't let him throw. Once they stop letting the quarterback throw,

Speaker 1 all is lost. There's no confidence, and you can't succeed in the NFL throwing for less than 100 yards a game.
It was unsustainable.

Speaker 1 So Tyrod Taylor has to play, and now he will against the Ravens team that once again is facing some uncertainty at the quarterback position.

Speaker 1 Lamar Jackson missing some practices because of an ankle issue now. Oh, my God.

Speaker 7 I remember I went to that game as a fan, the one where Marty Morningrigg passively, aggressively ran the ball like 48 times.

Speaker 1 Monday night football, yep.

Speaker 7 Monday night football against the Dolphins. Me and my buddies got Master Pizza and we drank a case of Hogarten in the parking lot.

Speaker 1 It was outrageous.

Speaker 7 That was so much fun.

Speaker 7 Yeah, let's do that again. F it, right?

Speaker 7 I mean, at this point, if you're Aaron Glenn, you need to put something on the mat for next year to remember and maybe a little grinded out, upset win over the Ravens.

Speaker 7 And the Ravens have not played perfect. Let's not forget.
They were like one pass from Shader Sanders away from losing that game to the Browns a week ago.

Speaker 2 My God. They are not a powerhouse, and I don't think it's an opportunity for the Jets specifically here.

Speaker 2 I'd like to see Baltimore drop a hammer if I'm going to ride this journey with them as a team that's going to do anything of meeting when it matters most.

Speaker 1 I don't know if they will.

Speaker 1 I don't see it. I think the Ravens are

Speaker 1 the general consensus around Baltimore is that, oh, look, they've fixed themselves. No, they still have issues.
And Lamar's at the center of a lot of it.

Speaker 1 There's not a lot of trusted weapons for him to go to. The pass protection hasn't been as good.
And he's not moving, obviously, as well.

Speaker 1 And this ankle injury, like, he's, I think he's on pace to rush for like 500 yards this year. He's not, it just hasn't been the same.

Speaker 1 And I wonder if his health is really impacting him, even with him back on the field. So, I don't know.
This one strikes me as a game that could be a little closer than people expect.

Speaker 1 I don't think the Jets win, but I think it could be a tight one in Baltimore. Let's move to the number 25 New York Giants, 2-9 at the number 7 Detroit Lions, 6-4.
Humbled on Sunday night.

Speaker 1 Jackson Dart expected to clear concussion protocol and play in this game. I want to see, Mark,

Speaker 1 how the Lions bounce back. It's a perfect bounce back opponent, a Giants team, and it's front seven that's disappointed bitterly all year.

Speaker 1 The Lions are left answering questions this week. Hey, Jared Goff, you had like seven passes knocked down at the line of scrimmage.
What's wrong? Has someone figured out, figured you out?

Speaker 1 And Goff's like, nah. Basically, bad day at the office.
I think the Lions are going to get healthy and pick on the Giants in a bully type game.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, the typical experience with the Lions offense has been go out and cut people off at the neck. I mean, it's like

Speaker 2 they've shown incredible power and might.

Speaker 2 And so I think that was a case of Philly's defense, which we just talked about, matching up well and making life very uncomfortable for Jared Goff, which, you know, there's a roadmap to do that in certain times.

Speaker 2 The Giants aren't about to.

Speaker 2 But this is like a huge,

Speaker 2 this is a huge moment for the Lions. They're not at last year's safe and secure like mid-November record.
Like they need to stack some wins. So if that didn't happen here,

Speaker 2 you could label it a complete disaster for the Lions. They've got to go in and just restore the might and show.
So that meant nothing last week.

Speaker 7 Part of me thought that we'd get fun preseason Jackson Dart and there was a lot of no huddle and a lot of creativity in the play calls.

Speaker 7 But my guess is that Mike Kafka is going to be limited here because you don't take a guy out of concussion protocol and then run run your QB run package here?

Speaker 7 You're going to have to protect this kid a week after he gets out of the tent.

Speaker 1 Last note I have is fire up Jameer Gibbs and David Montgomery in your fantasy matchups. The Giants are dead last in football in both explosive runs allowed and EPA per rush play

Speaker 1 allowed. Check your PFF.

Speaker 1 Expect them. This could be like a Lions run for 300 yards type game.
Up next, the number five Seattle Seahawks, 7-3, at the number 32 Titans, 1-9.

Speaker 1 Bring Gravy in on this one. Gravy, this looks like a classic get-right game for Seattle coming off a tough game for Sam Darnold against the Rams.
Yikes.

Speaker 5 Yeah, the Titans have been a get-right game for just about any team at any point this season, except for the Arizona Cardinals, who got very wrong.

Speaker 5 I think a pissed-off Seahawks team is going to come in here. They've struggled to run the ball a lot of times this season.

Speaker 5 I think this is one of those games where they can emphasize, like, let's get our run game going, especially in the second half when they're sitting on like a 35-0 halftime lead.

Speaker 5 I think this is going to be a bloodbath. I have zero hope.
But maybe,

Speaker 5 maybe Titans undrafted free agent wide receiver and former Miami teammate of Cam Ward, Xavier Ristrepo, could make his debut. That's about the only exciting thing from the Titans side in this one.

Speaker 2 Even if it's the Titans and even if it's like, you're going to roll here, clean game from Sam Darnold. I think it matters.
It's got to matter within to Sam Darnold to the entire offense.

Speaker 2 Like they really

Speaker 2 stood up for him after that game. But you can't keep turning the ball over even against a pretty terrible football team in Tennessee.

Speaker 7 The Titans don't see a lot of double-tight teams.

Speaker 7 I think they're like the first team in the NFL in terms of they see a lot of straight 11 personnel, three wide receiver, one running back, one tight end.

Speaker 7 So I don't know what they're going to do with this Seattle team. It's multi-tight ends.
It's multi-backs. The Titans haven't played against a lot of these teams and they're already off the rails.

Speaker 7 I mean, this has got slaughtering.

Speaker 2 I know what they're going to do.

Speaker 1 By the way, Jackson Smith and Jigba is right knocking on the door

Speaker 1 on pace for 2,000 yards receiving this season, over 1,900 yards. Did you see the Cam Scataboo controversy that he showed up at like Monday Night Raw

Speaker 1 and got into like a pushing match with one of the wrestlers on like a scripted bit and all these other giants were around him by the railing, and he had to answer to criticism that, hey, bro, you got a broken leg.

Speaker 1 Give me a crusty old man take about that, Connor. What's he doing at that game? Moving.

Speaker 1 Being a human being.

Speaker 7 I say this with the utmost love and respect for Cam Scatabo.

Speaker 7 He is meant to be a comet. He's meant to burn brightly and then to get out of our lives for about 800 years and we're never going to think about him again.

Speaker 7 So while this is hot, I mean, you're a fourth-round pick. You're kind of a big body running back.

Speaker 1 Like, just milk it, baby.

Speaker 7 You know, you got to make a career out of these next six months. Just ask Tommy DeVito, man.
This shit's hard. So do what you can do.

Speaker 1 You put him in the DeVito window? Like, do all the meatball ads you can? Yes.

Speaker 1 All right. Can I read the Cam Scatabo tweet? Because

Speaker 1 just the idea of Cam in front of a keyboard or using his phone to type sentences. I like it.

Speaker 1 I'm going to read it in his voice. I,

Speaker 1 I, A-Y-E. I honestly, if you don't like that, I'm having a good time while dealing with a tough time, then just go ahead and unfollow and casually move on.

Speaker 1 I'm not able to play football and have the fun I've been having my whole life, so I'm doing things outside the box, trying to find stuff to keep me happy.

Speaker 1 Enjoy the rest of y'all's week, and just don't talk about me if you ain't got nothing nice to say. Foot was off the ground, and the boys had my back.

Speaker 1 Trust me, wouldn't do anything to jeopardize anything, my G.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 what's going on, you big blue?

Speaker 2 Hey, it's FOFO and 6 in a trap.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to do that, boys. Yeah.

Speaker 7 Did you see him on Twitch?

Speaker 7 He just got 10,000 subscribers on Twitch, so he chugged a monster energy out of a game-worn shoe.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Oh, he's the best. He's the best.

Speaker 7 That's what I'm saying, man.

Speaker 2 I do see there may be a shelf life on the

Speaker 1 overall experience. Get that money.
All right, next up.

Speaker 1 Remember, just 90 seconds each game.

Speaker 1 Here's the number 23, Falcons, 3-7. We'll make it up here.
At the number 29, Saints, 2-8, Adam Amin, and Drew Brees on the call. So you get Brees calling

Speaker 1 the Saints. This is also a Kirk Cousins game, as we mentioned on Wednesday.
ACL surgery for Pennix. He'll be out for, I think, nine months is the understanding.

Speaker 1 So two teams going nowhere fast, Sessler.

Speaker 2 It's basically Bijan Robinson or bust, but it feels like the whole whole thing is just a bust to begin with.

Speaker 2 Because if I could have been convinced a couple of weeks ago that the coaching staff sticks around, I can't now.

Speaker 2 The other thing I'd say is I wanted to see Tyler Shuck again. I thought he

Speaker 2 played well in that other game. And it's like,

Speaker 2 that's your hope if you're New Orleans.

Speaker 2 You got to come out of here with a clear design of what you do at quarterback because they feel like the top candidate to swing a trade with the Titans to get into that number one spot to take a quarterback.

Speaker 7 I think if I end up with this one on the Patreon draft, I'm not going to be sad because, to your shuck point, we need to know how good he is to inform us about what the Saints are going to do in the draft.

Speaker 7 And the Falcons are second in blitz rate in the NFL, seventh in pressure generated from those blitzes. Caden Ellis, that middle linebacker, really is a bugger to deal with.

Speaker 7 And so I think that that's going to be an interesting scenario for a young quarterback. Is he going to be able to handle himself in a high-pressure environment?

Speaker 7 There's going to be guys flying at him the whole time. So let's see.

Speaker 1 I kind of want to watch this game. How far have the Atlanta Falcons fallen this season?

Speaker 1 They are underdogs in this game against the New Orleans Saints. Oof.

Speaker 1 Saints lane one and a half. Only the second time all year they've been favorites.
I have not looked at any other spreads, by the way. I'm always, I'm always

Speaker 7 honest about the blind lock.

Speaker 2 That didn't feel like where you were going to go with your lock to begin.

Speaker 1 No, no, I think we're safe on that one. All right.
Finally, the number 30 Cleveland Browns 2-8 at the number 31 Raiders 2-8. Don't play this game.
We don't need to play this game. No one needs this.

Speaker 1 Who needs this?

Speaker 1 Yes, we do. Well, how about this, Sessler? It's time.

Speaker 1 It's time, Mark. Did you know that the Cleveland Browns have not won on the West Coast or on the Pacific Standard time zone since 2012?

Speaker 1 The last win on the West Coast was December 2nd, 2012 against the Oakland Raiders at the old Oko Coliseum.

Speaker 1 Their only win since that time west of the the central time zone was a win in Denver in 2018. That's in Mountain Zone.
You got the Raiders, Mark. Break this hideous, hideous string of ineptitude.

Speaker 2 Well, I personally have no control over that, but I will tell you.

Speaker 1 Break it, Mark. It's up to you.

Speaker 2 Sure, for as hideous as this matchup appears to be on paper, do it. The city of Cleveland is going crazy.
It's Shador Sanders.

Speaker 1 It's up to you, Mark.

Speaker 2 I will be sitting in front of this computer probably just taking notes.

Speaker 1 Cleveland turns its lonely eyes to Sesler.

Speaker 2 You're trying to, you don't want to discuss Shador Sanders. I get it, but this is a major moment for the Browns fan base this season.

Speaker 1 In a lot of time, help me run out the clock on Shador Sanders' conversation.

Speaker 7 Okay, here's what I'm going to say about this.

Speaker 1 Clowns.

Speaker 7 To all of you sick of fans who started this Shador Sanders practice rep conversation, do not come for Tommy Reese.

Speaker 7 He is a good play caller who has run good offenses with quarterbacks far worse and far less talented than Shadur Sanders at the college level and at the pro level.

Speaker 7 Leave him alone when this kid goes 12 of 28 for 57 yards and two picks.

Speaker 2 Don't you think the players this week did what they should do, the players in the media, and they did shut that down pretty quick about reps and playing backup quarterbacks.

Speaker 2 Like it was a pretty unified shut the F up to anyone doubting it.

Speaker 1 It's a tight operation over there.

Speaker 5 Dan,

Speaker 5 that Tommy Reese comment from Connor, where do you think Tommy Reese was a former quarterbacks coach and offensive coordinator in college?

Speaker 1 I'm going to guess UT. No, no.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Connor?

Speaker 1 Notre Dame.

Speaker 5 Winner of this game goes to three wins.

Speaker 1 That's going to be big for the draft order.

Speaker 5 Somebody's getting the three wins here.

Speaker 2 Going to shake things up at the top of the draft.

Speaker 7 Justin has this these nice little, like, nice guy bombs that he likes to drop, but this one was wildly ineffective.

Speaker 1 Yes, I've seen a lot of exposure for playing favorites.

Speaker 7 And I mean that as much as I did with Tommy Rees and Ian Book at Notre Dame, as I did with Tommy Reese and Jalen Milro. He got the most out of Jalen Milro as a quarterback at Alabama, too.

Speaker 7 So suck it, Graver.

Speaker 1 True.

Speaker 1 Also, when Charlie Weiss put out his swimsuit calendar in 2006, Connor did not purchase it. No.

Speaker 2 And he had to fend off his deeper feelings there. That showed some.

Speaker 1 I'd love some resilience. Everyone shut up.

Speaker 1 Good man.

Speaker 1 All right. Let's move to the Blind Locks.
All right. Here we go.
Or wants this bad. He wants the chip.

Speaker 1 He wants the inaugural Blind Locks title. And guess what? Zuzzer's picking up ground.

Speaker 1 Oh, baby. Connor falls to seven and four.

Speaker 1 Oh, baby. He thought he had it in the bag, but then Zuzzer wins it back-to-back.
He moves into sole possession of second place, six and five, just a game out.

Speaker 1 Sest Dog, five and six.

Speaker 1 Bravie buried in the cellar at four and seven, kissing cousins with his favorite team, the Tytoons.

Speaker 1 I like it. So it's real tight.
And I was thinking about Mark adding a rule change this week, but I'm going to sit on it one more week. Next week, major rule change to shake these picks up.

Speaker 2 I will wait with bated breath.

Speaker 1 Yes, yes, yes. All right, let's uh let's go to it now.
We're gonna each make a pick.

Speaker 1 Uh, remember, if you pick a favorite favored by five or more points, you have to double that spread for the cover.

Speaker 1 I was able to do it luckily with the bills getting a 12-point win on an 11-point spread after I got doubled up on a five and a half bang job.

Speaker 1 Um, but it's hard to do, so be careful when picking favorites. Connor, get us going.

Speaker 1 Golly, all right.

Speaker 7 I am going to.

Speaker 7 It's five and a half, right?

Speaker 1 I'm freaking out, man.

Speaker 1 I like winning and I don't feel confident about any of these games.

Speaker 7 All right. Give me.

Speaker 1 I'm locked and loaded, so Connor, just so you know, that might shake you a little bit more.

Speaker 7 I can't pass and go last, right? I got to go now.

Speaker 1 No, we go in the order of where you are in the standings. Rule change.

Speaker 1 All right. Rule change change.

Speaker 7 Give me the 49ers over the Panthers, and I'm hoping that the Panthers got a winning record, and then they'll come in just a twinge under that five and a half.

Speaker 1 You've been great at that. I think more than anything else, what's led to your first place

Speaker 1 standings is you've been banging favorites just under that five.

Speaker 7 I know. I'm trying to tickle that little.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know what I think? I think that's going to be about four and a half. I think you might do it again.
You saw that.

Speaker 7 Come on, baby. Yep.

Speaker 1 All right. This one's this one's one that I've been targeting in on

Speaker 1 Kansas City. Oh, man.
At Arrowhead. Nice.
Got to have it. I just don't.

Speaker 1 I just don't think this is going to happen forever. I think I could see this being a close game, but I could also see, keep an eye on Daniel Jones here.

Speaker 1 Keep an eye on how Daniel Jones looks in this game in this environment against a Spags defense.

Speaker 1 And I will just throw this one thing out there that tempers me a little bit that I didn't bring up earlier.

Speaker 1 That Lou Anarumo had some great matchups when he was with Cincinnati and always kind of had a handle on Mahomes, who never really had too many blow-ups against the Bengals and all those great matchups.

Speaker 1 So I don't think Casey goes off offensively, but I do like the Spags v. Daniel Jones a steichen matchup here.
I think they're going to win, and I think it will be less than five points this spread.

Speaker 1 Mark.

Speaker 2 Anarumo and Mahomes have a split record against each other. You're right.

Speaker 2 Well, I'm really,

Speaker 2 this is tedious to me because I was going to go Chiefs too, and I wrote it down in my document here. Go ahead.

Speaker 1 Let's be Lockbros.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the only thing is, like, I'm now in a, I'm only one game behind you, but there is a ticking clock here, but I'll have to deal with that next week.

Speaker 1 Connor, even with his

Speaker 1 cherry-picking near the goal, is only two games up on you and one on me, even with all that cherry-picking. So it's like, let's just go.
Let's pick up another game on our big screen.

Speaker 2 I don't know if we've had lock bros because Justin was so averse that one time.

Speaker 2 Is that our first lock bro?

Speaker 1 Are you in Ariel? Are we doing it?

Speaker 2 I'm doing it. All right, let's go, Cecily.

Speaker 7 Let's go.

Speaker 7 Now, you have the option, correct, to disallow him from being a lock bro.

Speaker 1 Oh, is that a rule?

Speaker 5 Yeah, that was your rule.

Speaker 1 Yeah. No, I welcome my brother.

Speaker 2 That would be an honor from another mother. Love her pull right there if after this.

Speaker 1 It'd be kind of a dickbag move to heartily try to convince you to join me and then being, but you can't. Get the f out of here.
I feel like something I would do, but I'm not.

Speaker 2 It does.

Speaker 1 You are locking up with me, and I love it. All right, Justin.
You kind of need it. It's kind of a gotta have it week for Graver.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I don't know where to go because I'm a little worried about the spread, even though I put the spread graphic together and I should know, but I forgot.

Speaker 5 So I'm going to take the Packers over the Vikings Vikings. In divisional games, can get weird.
Josh Jacobs might not be playing, but I like that pick.

Speaker 1 I like the Packers in this one. Also, why would our producer have issues with short-term memory? I don't know.

Speaker 1 It's worth discussing at a later time. All right, let's see where we're at.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 he got him.

Speaker 1 He got him. We got got ore.

Speaker 2 That is amazing.

Speaker 1 Oh, and I knew it.

Speaker 7 I had a feeling it might be bigger.

Speaker 1 And I reeled him in.

Speaker 1 Get him in the boat. Niners by seven.

Speaker 1 Which means Connor Orr has to cover 14 in the biggest of all spots.

Speaker 2 That's surprising, that spread.

Speaker 1 Oh, baby.

Speaker 1 Kansas City laying

Speaker 1 three and a half against the Colts. So we're good there, Sess Dog.

Speaker 1 And on the green base side.

Speaker 1 whoa.

Speaker 1 Justin, you got to double up over Engraver Valley as well. 13.
13. He's got to win by 13 against the Vikings because it's six and a half.
You got to be, you're smart in there, Grady.

Speaker 5 Yeah. I should have had a better memory, but I guess this maybe proves my integrity.

Speaker 1 It does. You kind of get a win away.
Well, it also proves you have a potential drug problem. There's a lot.

Speaker 7 Don't use one thing to excuse the other.

Speaker 1 Oh, Cessler, this, I mean, listen, we still need a Chiefs team that's failing to close out games to beat a very good and first-place indie team, but I feel like this is setting up really well.

Speaker 1 I love it. Two people just got bit in the butt.
Two people just got a bit of a battle. Connor is spinning out.
I could tell.

Speaker 1 Justin doesn't even know where he is, but that was the same before the reveal. Like, this is wild.
Week 12, baby.

Speaker 7 The uh, the pick was Vegas minus three and a half

Speaker 7 home against Shador.

Speaker 7 Damn Damn it. That was the pick.

Speaker 2 Don't be so sure.

Speaker 5 There's only five games

Speaker 5 out of this whole slate that would have been under the five.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there wasn't a lot of, yeah. It's tough.
Wow. All right.
So we'll see how it all plays out.

Speaker 1 Next time you see us, it will be the flagship program Sunday night.

Speaker 1 And we can't wait to see you there. And if you want a little more bonus week 12 content, head over to Patreon where we will have our draft.
We're also also going to do some little fun little treat.

Speaker 1 We're going to migrate some of our Friday fun show headlines over to that program and just check in on the world at large.

Speaker 1 That sounds fun too. So check out patreon.com slash heed the call.

Speaker 1 And by the way, a double feature over on the Patreon because the latest edition of It Came from the Subreddit also rolls out on Fridays.

Speaker 1 We dig into all sorts of things and we get a little cameo from Sess Dog

Speaker 1 over on that as well.

Speaker 2 I'm hearing a lot of positive feedback to the appearance I made on that show, so it's good to know.

Speaker 1 Very nice. All right, everybody, have a great and safe weekend.
Till Sunday, do what you must. Heed the call.

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