Introducing ‘It’s Rom-Complicated!’ How to Find Love by Watching Rom-Com Movies (Seriously!) Episode 1: ‘Groundhog Day’

Yeah, women don't chase manipulation and moves.

Women chase and pursue awesomely authentic man,

like the guy Phil Connors becomes in Groundhog Day.

Columbia Pictures presents I May Be Having a Problem.

Bill Murray.

I'm reliving the same day.

Over and over.

In a story about a weatherman who's living life like there's no tomorrow.

Don't drive angry because there isn't.

I am an immortal.

I have been stabbed, shot, frozen, electrocuted. You're God.
I'm a God. I'm not the God.
Groundhog Day, rated PG at Theatres Friday. Welcome back to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast.
I'm your host, dating coach Conal Barrett. I'm here to help you learn to flirt, get more dates, and get a great girlfriend, all by being authentic.
No sketchy pickup artist moves needed. And I have a question for you.
What if you could become a chick magnet by watching chick flicks? Might sound crazy, but hear me out. I believe that romantic comedies, for all of their over-the-top meet-cutes and grand gestures and klutzy but adorable leads, I think they reveal a lot about what men and women want, about how to connect, about how to find love.
And also, I'm just a big movie nerd, and I love movies. So that's why you're listening to a special recurring episode of the first episode of what's called It's Rom Complicated.
This is a special recurring feature right here on the How to Get a Girlfriend feed. And in this recurring series, we're going to be breaking down rom-coms to see what they get right and also hilariously wrong about dating in real life we're going to hand out awards we're going to call out the best and worst dating moves we're going to share some fun behind the scenes trivia and tidbits and yeah there's going to be a few dating tips along the way.

And I thought, what better day to start this than on Groundhog Day, which is when this episode

drops. So today we're going to look at the movie Groundhog Day, starring Bill Murray and Andy

McDowell. It's the ultimate time loop love story where Phil Connors gets infinite do-overs in his

quest to win the heart of Andy McDowell. But does he actually earn the heart of Andy McDowell? We're going to talk about that right now.
And to make this episode even better, I'm bringing in a very special guest, my girlfriend, Jessamyn. Who better to do the inaugural episode of It's Wrong, Complicated, on the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast than my girlfriend Jessamyn.
So let's dive in and talk about Groundhog Day. Jessamyn, welcome back.
Thanks. Thanks for having me back.
My pleasure. I'm psyched you're here.
We just rewatched Groundhog Day. I love this movie.
I think I love it more than you, as we might find out.

I've seen it many, many times. It's one of my favorite nineties movies.

Before we get into the movie and also the different categories of some of the good, the bad, the ugly, in terms of dating and Phil's behavior.

Tell me a little bit about if you could go back into your life and think what day would I like to go back and relive over and over again, like Bill Murray had to do as Phil, what day would you do over and over? Oh, man. So many days to choose from.
I would actually, I had two days in mind. One was a big event in my family's history.
My dad turned 85. This was 10 years ago.
My dad's birthday is Halloween. And maybe the best day of my life, at least up to that point, was my dad's surprise 85th birthday.
It was a Friday night, and we're trying to figure out how to surprise him, my five siblings and I. And because his birthday is on Halloween, we made him think we were not going to surprise him.
And then we had all these different guests from his and my mom's past show up as trick-or-treaters and ringing the doorbell every 15 minutes on Halloween, his birthday. So every 15 minutes, a different surprise guest showed up with a mask on saying, trickor-treat and happy birthday denny and it was just really emotional and uh it was an amazing day that'd be pretty intense to relive over and over again i was gonna say that's very emotional but special and then in terms of just a regular hum drum day which is what phil essentially does in this movie as he takes a regular day groundhog day and turns it into something special i just love our saturdays together where we cook or you usually cook and we listen to music and we we try to get your dumb cat to to be with us even though she never wants to um and yeah i just love kind of our lazy saturdays together what about you yeah i mean sort of in that same vein i think honestly sundays are pretty underrated and if you're gonna relive a sunday over and over again like once you realize that you're reliving it over and over again it's like oh it's like a it's like a sunday of a holiday weekend like there's no mond next day.
There's no Sunday scaries. You just get to like lean into the general relaxation that comes with a Sunday.
Things aren't super busy. It's, you know, just generally a very laid back kind of thing.
I have a lot of good like associations with Sundays. You and I will usually at least spend like the morning afternoon just kind of hanging out um yeah trying to get my dumb cat to just like acknowledge our existence just to just just put out there like i love my cat her name is boots and she's perfect booties we love her she's our dummy but she's just shy.
I wish she wasn't shy, but. Yeah.
But our first date was on a Sunday. And I think first dates on Sunday nights are totally underrated and totally underappreciated.
Because it's, you know, the next day is like, it's a school night. Like the next day is work.
Right. There's, you know, you're not expected to like be late.
It's not going to be crowded at like bars and restaurants. There's no pretense for, you know, that you kind of get with sometimes with like a Friday, Saturday night date.
Yeah. So most Sundays, I think I would be happy to relive over and over again.
Great answer. By the way, dear listener, go back to an episode.
If you want to hear about the art of a really good first date date jessamine and i talk about our very first date back in an episode that dropped in november so you can check that out if you want to hear more from the two of us about how i got my girlfriend okay um let's talk about bill murray in this movie and you know this this feed or this recurring series is called it's wrong complicated and it is kind of complicated with bill murray because i think he's a genius he's a comedic genius he's an amazing actor a great improviser at the same time there's a there's a lot of problematic behavior that has occurred and actually did occur during the filming of this movie so Let's talk about the good of Bill Murray first. He's iconic, you know, SNL, he came to fame on SNL and starred in all these great movies, Ghostbusters, Groundhog Day, so many, so many classic films.
And in my previous career, before I became a dating coach, I was a journalist. And I got to briefly meet and interview him.
And I found him to be, he was fine. He was not, I had no problems with him.
But I got a little insight into his comedic brilliance by talking to the Farrelly Brothers once. I got to interview the Farrelly Brothers and the Farrelly brothers did a movie called Kingpin, which is about bowling.
And I went and I was talking to them about what it was like to work with Bill Murray. And I said, what was it like working with him? And they said, oh, he's incredible at improvising.
He's a genius. And I said, what do you mean? And they said, every day we would give him the script for that scene.
He played a bowling, a famous world

called He's a genius. And I said, what do you mean? And they said, every day we would give him the script for that scene.
He played a bowling, a famous world-class champion bowler, very arrogant, over-the-top arrogant. And they said, every day we'd give him the screenplay of what he was going to do.
And he would look at the pages. He would go, nope, that's not going to work.
And he would roll up the screenplay pages into a ball and throw them into a trash can. He's sitting in makeup as he's doing this.
And then he would improvise everything he said. And they said, and they told me in this interview years ago, and you know what? Everything he improvised was better than anything we had written.
So comedically, he's just a genius. What's your opinion on Bill Murray as an actor? He's definitely a notable, memorable player in the realms of comedy in general.
Kind of like what you're describing, very similar to Robin Williams, just having a very unique approach and very noteworthy comedic moments throughout their careers. I mean, I grew up with Bill Murray.
I'm pretty sure Groundhog Day came out the year I was born. So, like, we're talking about my early comedic, you know, experiences being a lot of Bill Murray movies because that was a big period for him.
As a rom-com leading man, I have other thoughts. But I cannot doubt that there is something to be said for his comedic career and how he's become such like a, just a key person who's inspired, I'm sure, tons of other comedians throughout their careers.
Well, before we get to the categories, we're going to do what I'm calling the rom-coms. We're going to give out some awards.
We're going to break this movie down in some fun little categories. Before I do that, I have a special, unique relationship to this movie.
So I saw it when it came out originally, way back in 93, because I'm a thousand years old. So I remember when it came out and then I would rewatch it every couple of years.
And it was in the early 2010s, I would say 2010, maybe 2011. I had just spent the last 18 months of my life working really hard on my dating life.
So for anybody who hasn't listened to this podcast before, I used to suck with dating. I'm naturally introverted.
I was very shy. I had really low self-confidence and I really struggled with dating well into my mid thirties.
Then I started working with coaches. I worked really hard on figuring out what works with women and dating.
And then I got really good pretty quickly and I overcorrected. I became a little bit arrogant.
I went through a period of thinking you know oh man i'm dating three or four women i'm approaching girls i'm getting all these matches on the apps i'm the shit remember the scene in the movie in groundhog day when he says to andy mcdowell uh i i'm i'm a god she says you're not god he's like well maybe not the god I'm a god. Sorry says, you're not god.
He's like, well, maybe not the god.

I'm a god. Sorry? What was that again? I'm a god.
You're a god. I'm a god.
I'm not the god. I don't think.
Because you survived a car wreck? You folks ready to order? I didn't just survive a wreck. I wasn't just blown up yesterday.
I have been stabbed, shot, poisoned, frozen, hung, electrocuted, and burned. Oh, really? Every morning I wake up without a scratch on me, not a dent in the fender.
I am an immortal. Special today is blueberry waffles.
I went through a period where I kind of felt that way about myself. It's amazing what the ego can do.
What can happen when you all of a sudden get some success in an area where you struggled. And so anyway, early 2010s, I'm rewatching this movie and I'm watching this and I have an epiphany.
I realized, holy shit, I'm becoming kind of a dick. I'm bad Phil.
I remember I had a date once where I was doing my shtick my cocky funny kind of stuff that was working and this woman looked at me and she looked at me and said does this work what you're doing right now she totally called me on my shit probably something you would have said had that been you it is absolutely something i have said to at least three different men what is oh share tell us i mean that's basically it guys just like coming up with you know whatever neg neging sort of pickup line kind of bs like yeah does this works for you yeah how many times this is like something to that effect and it just kind of shuts it down it's great yeah and i remember vividly where i was at this little cool like kind of cool underground cocktail lounge and i'm doing my shtick and my cocky lines and and it wasn't so much nagging her it was just a bit of a persona it was like too cool for school persona and it was my version of bad film so. So anyway, so I'm watching this movie early 2011.
And I realized, whoa, I'm way too into myself. And I'm becoming arrogant.
And I'm making dating all about me. I think it's because I worked with these pickup artist dudes who said, be self-amused.
Play up like this kind of like almost like a narcissistic side of you. And that to an extent but anyway so i watched groundhog day early in the 20 in that decade and i realized i gotta i gotta make some changes i gotta stop being so damn selfish and or i should say self-obsessed and what i loved about watching the movie through that lens then was how phil real he makes a change about two-thirds of the way through the movie he realizes i need to start working on myself and becoming a better person and i need to start being much more generous and giving to other people and i i literally went from watching groundhog day to thinking okay how can i be more like phil the good phil i should say and there's a great scene where phil brings coffee to chris elliott and annie mcdowell after being a total jackass for most of the movie as this arrogant weatherman he's like oh here's a danish here's a danish here's some coffee and he's asking them their opinion and i started to do that and it felt so much better and it also helped my dating results women could see oh, oh, wow, he's not a jerk.

He's confident, but he's actually interested in me.

He's listening.

He's sincere.

He's vulnerable.

He admits when he doesn't know something.

And anyway, just watching the movie, it affected my behavior and actually helped my dating life get even better.

But not because of a persona, but because I was being really genuine and a lot more generous with the women I'd met and also just working on myself, trying to make myself better. You were a more handsome version of good Bill Murray with better teeth.
Yeah, so I have a personal love of this movie that you might not share just because because I remember thinking, I need to work on myself. And what I learned, and I'll end on this note, then we'll get into some fun categories.
But if you really want to get a girlfriend and become the kind of man who really will make a woman say, wow, this guy is really somebody special. So all i really did once i got good at the mechanics part of dating and flirting is i just said how can i get better today what hobby can i take up it was actually i took up improv around the time that i watched this i said i need to i need to bring something new into my life i started taking improv classes started taking italian classes and i could just share interesting things about that I was learning in ways I was growing when I would meet women.
And that's a really attractive guy. I mean, don't you think from the formerly single woman's perspective, are women, do you think women are attracted to a guy who's working on himself, who's confident, but grounded? What are your thoughts? Yeah, absolutely.
If somebody's, you know, you see that, I think you see that really, if you're on the dating apps and you see, you know, a guy that's put effort into how he's presenting himself on the apps, just like, you know, with his photos, his bio, you know, there's humility, there's, he's presenting himself in a way that's's like i'm interesting and i want to meet an interesting person and learn more about them versus somebody who isn't putting in that same effort and it's still kind of in that self-amusing space yeah um you know they're actually it's not just about dating getting laid that process it's about genuinely just meeting people and having meaningful relationships, even if they're short-lived or long-lived, just genuinely interested in life. Well said.
Okay, well, there's some other things about Bill I want to get into. I say Bill because, you know, we're good friends.
Yep. But we can get into that in the categories.
so let's get to the categories these the rom-coms we're gonna break down the movie in different little categories and awards the first one is the uh the meet cute award we're gonna rate the meet cute in rom-coms usually the couple meets in an absurdly non-realistic way. So this question is, how adorable, awkward, or absurd was their first encounter? And the thing I noticed watching this with you recently was the meet-cute, they pretty much already know each other, or at least Bill Murray knows Andy McDowell's character from the TV station they work at in pittsburgh and so they don't have like a a super meet cute they do have it's a kind of a cute moment where she's standing in front of the the weather green screen and she's enjoying how silly she looks on the screen he knows he definitely notices her so i kind of like that it's more real world but in terms of a meet cute moment it's like a six out of ten at best yeah i think the the introduction of the two of them i mean that moment specifically right the kind of you know oh i saw her from across the room kind of thing like that was it's not particularly eventful but you know you see her personality contrasting with him being all like you know shitty and bitching about you know having to go do this assignment on groundhog day but then i think in like the next scene they're in the van they're driving out there to the puxatani and you get more of that relationship the hot and cold of her being like new and excited and idealistic and him just being like no actually all this is terrible and i hate everything and she's like okay great um so there's it's kind of an extended meet cute i think and it's very it's pretty classic as far as those go it's not i don't know if it falls into adorable or absurd i think it's just it it happened yeah it it happened in a pretty real world way it doesn't feel like a movie capital with a capital m even though this crazy cosmic impossible magic thing happens that this day repeats over and over again everything else a lot of the movie is very grounded and i like that they met in a normal relatable way and we get to see that they he's clearly very attracted to her right away but she is not into him at all right why do you think she's not into him at first i mean she doesn't know him right so she's just met him and He's just this grumpy guy and she's not into him at first? I mean, she doesn't know him, right? So she's just met him, and he's just this grumpy guy, and she's not at all grumpy.
And they're coworkers. So the tension is kind of built from them being coworkers in this sort of workplace rom-com scenario, which she's not going to see him that way at first.
They're not going to see each other that way. If anything, he seeing her as like us i don't know i don't want to say sex object but like oh yeah she's cute and then just kind of like moves on from it all right next category next award the chemistry test sparks or duds how hot is their chemistry from brother sister to get a room guys what are your thoughts

it was just it was a very classic chemistry setup but when they actually like have when there are moments that they're supposed to have chemistry or it's like you know the scene is set that way it doesn't land at least not for me it's like okay the dialogue is the dialogue throughout the movie is actually pretty solid um and everyone you know does their jobs well but their actual chemistry i just i don't know how it passed the initial chemistry testing to be honest it was it was

pg and it was very accessible but it definitely wasn't hot right you know it's a pg movie and I think their connection toward the end is believable the the way she sees the man he's become that i think is for lack of a better term earned it makes sense settling into each other's personalities and how different they are that that's that shows up towards the end yeah yeah i don't think they have incredible chemistry i don't think you need crazy hot chemistry in groundhog day it's about the jokes it's a comedy yeah although that said i i do i do like her warmth how it pushes up against his coldness at first his sarcasm so in that sense it's an interesting kind of a slow burn early on you can see how you can see how he's attracted to her she's beautiful she's andy mcdonald and we can see why she's not into him at all there's that scene where he finds out that she has him set up at the bed and breakfast not at the other hotel and he refers to himself oh good it's good it's a good producer who knows how to take care of the talent so clearly we see how that arrogance there's a lot of truth in this is that arrogance pushes her away or makes her does not she does not see him as somebody she's going to be instantly attracted to and i don't see her as him as somebody that she'd be immediately interested in. So it works.
It's believable. It's definitely believable.
This episode of How to Get a Girlfriend is brought to you by Punxsutender. Do you put your foot in your mouth on dates just like Punxsutawney's most famous weatherman, Phil Connors? Believe it or not, I studied 19th century French poetry.
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Okay. Next we have the steal this move award, the best dating move from the movie to try in real life or that you could try in real life.
I have a couple of thoughts here. Do you have anything that you, as you were watching this, you were thinking, oh yeah, I could see that would be, that could work on me or that could work in real life.
Honestly, the only, like, I just, oh God. Okay.
Hear me out. There's this one moment, there's no context for this scene and it's never really explained, but it's when on one of the days he like shows up to the movie theater with this random woman and he's like in this full cowboy get up yeah he's like clint eastwood and there's really no explanation for it but that's the only moment where i was like you know what if a guy invited me on a date and either said like hey dress up as a french maid i'm.
I'm going to dress up in a full cowboy getup. I could actually like, that could work.
If the chemistry is there and your senses of humor are lined up, that's like the one thing I'm like, yeah, no, I, I get that. But otherwise that, that was really all I remember standing out.
Okay. I've got a huge one.
So there's this incredible set piece about a third of the way through the movie where he's trying to seduce Annie McDowell. And the first time they go out on this, for lack of a better term, date, they're spending the evening together, they go pretty far.

It goes pretty well.

They start to connect, and he is essentially letting the chemistry within reason happen organically.

And there's something to be said about allowing natural chemistry to just arise as opposed to what happens then as he repeats the day over and over again he tries to force the chemistry by manipulating things which we'll get into and what not to do in a second so i think one takeaway that you should learn about that the the single guy listening to this should take away from that is don't force it let let chemistry arise if there is any don't try to don't try to force it with a woman on a date and you might have a really good and he actually has a really good date with her of course it's a million miles from where i started out in college oh yeah you weren't broadcasting or journals or anything like that? Uh-uh. Believe it or not, I studied 19th century French poetry.
La fille qui j'aimerais, c'est raconte bonfaire, qui s'est bonfaire, un peu, chaque matin. You speak French? Oui.
You know, she even comes back to his B&B room, and they're having a really good date. Of course, he screws up by trying really hard to get her to hook up with him.
But I feel like one lesson is just let it arise. Just let the chemistry arise and don't force it.
That was the one thought I had. Oh, and the other one is, this is more of a long-term play, but this is really where Phil changes the game in his whole life in general.
But also I think he becomes so much more attractive to Rita, which is to take up a really cool, fun, interesting skill. Now you might not have 20,000 days to repeat over and over again like Phil does, but Phil really levels up by saying, you know what, I'm just going to take up jazz piano.
I'm going to become really good at ice sculpting.

I'm going to start working on myself.

So this is more of a long-term play,

but if you want to steal a move from this movie that really helped me a lot is pick up some kind of passion project,

whether it's picking up a musical instrument or, okay,

maybe not sculpting ice, but working on yourself in some way because because that gives you something to talk about on, on a date with a woman where she might say, oh, so what have you been up to lately? Tell me a little bit about you. And you might talk about, oh, I just got back from taking jazz piano like Phil does in the movie or working on learning some kind of language.
And that gives you something to talk about on a date where you get to express something cool and interesting about yourself. That's going to be an attractive trait to a lot of women, especially if they like your type.
Yeah, and it goes back to that idea of, you know, you're putting effort into who you are as a person and how you're presenting yourself on a date. and it's conversation beyond the standard interview questions that come up on every first and second date.
Right. That's why I'm taking piano lessons right now.
I just want to impress you. You just want to be interesting on our dates.
Yeah, on our 700th date. No, I see that from you.
Okay, next award, next category. The Don't Do This Award for the Worst Dating Move.
Anything come to mind? Well, I'll go first here. This is an obvious one here.
There's an amazing scene. It's so cringeworthy.
He meets a woman named Nancy. And because he's repeating, he's in in this time loop he's repeating this day over and over again he walks up to nancy and gets all this information about her and then uses it and makes her think that they know each other so the glaringly obvious don't do this award is don't lie don't pretend to be literally he's literally pretending to be somebody he's not.
And he's, he's manipulating her. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
He's manipulating her and it's complete. Yeah.
It's completely. When I watched it the first time, it was hilarious.
Oh my God. That's so funny.
He's just pretending he went to high school with that woman, Nancy, so he could hook up with her. And as I watched it again with you last week, I was like, oh, my God, this is so, so manipulative, so gross.
And sadly, it's still what some people teach in the world of, like, the whole toxic pickup artist world. Yeah, and I imagine now with the Internet, you know, you can do tons of research on somebody before you meet them and it's you know it's like oh you can see that being like some sort of weird pickup artisty thing like you know do as much research on her as you can and you know you'll be able to agree with her and have all these it's like no it's just manipulative and and boring right i think there's a uh there's a way to do a little bit of research about not about the person but about something that you know they're they're interested in to be able to talk about that thing i don't think we did this i don't think i did this before our first date but you know you and i have been texting about about your i think you i i i knew you were into dance or you were into some kind of theater and i suppose i could have done some research and and learned a little bit about what you were into but if you know a woman you have a date with is really into skiing or really into a certain band absolutely do a little research on the things she's into so you could talk about it you might want to ask her some questions that might engage her so there's a there's a good fill way to go about using intel about somebody versus what he did which is say whatever it takes to get nancy into bed with him right and then he used the pretty much the exact same approach and technique

with andy and that just that whole scene was even more cringe inducing when he finally got her back

to his room oh right she says we counted she said no like five different ways five different times

like she the but her body language like all the signs were there all the signs that men should

be looking for on dates were all there and he just did not he was plowing through and it was just

Let's go. body language, like all the signs were there.
All the signs that men should be looking for on dates were all there. And he just did not, he was plowing through and it was just vomit inducing.
Yeah. That was me.
It wasn't that bad. Don't get me wrong.
I wasn't as gross as Phil, but absolutely. Get her back to your place, make her feel comfortable.
All this seduction stuff. I did stuff at least in the vicinity, in the direction of what he was doing.
And I remember thinking, well, I guess this is what you do. And I just, I didn't feel good about it.
Um, in terms of, um, you know, I never did this one. There's, there's a really gross move.
Some guy said at a seminar once he was like, it was it was like right before you're getting closer

to intimacy, sex move some guy said at a seminar once he was like um it was it was like right before you're getting

closer to intimacy sex and he said i'll never ask her if she wants to have sex ask her should you ask her should i put the condom on or should you like using like sales technique stuff like, you know, so do you want to take the 36-month rental or lease or do you want to buy it? It's like maybe neither. Maybe neither of us should put this condom on.
Maybe we should take our time. And everybody knows a real gentleman puts his own condom on.
I think that goes without saying. The question shouldn't even be in so many feelings.
Thank you for giving me the cold open soundbite for this episode. Nailed it.
Oh, man. Okay.
Next category. It's the this ageded Like Fine Wine.
This category is what's something that's timeless and great about this movie? For me, it's just the message of constant and never ending growth and improvement is one of the ways to be fulfilled in life. Just always be working on yourself, always trying to get better.
I think that message is universal. I think one of the most fulfilling things I've ever done in my life that's made me happy is letting go of a certain result or not being so results-oriented in life and just saying, you know what, I just want to get a little bit better at things.
I want to learn new things. I just want to always grow and improve.
to me that's aged like like fine wine that and um and needle nose ned ned is amazing in this movie needle nose ned he deserved a spinoff but we'll get to that um yeah i mean the the the concept of kind of what you're saying like the message of like being able to work on yourself, you know, it's about the journey. I think the whole premise of having to do the same day over and over again, it's a, it's a very interesting premise that can be used in a number of ways.
The movie Palm Springs recently, a few years ago when that came out, that, that really took that, you know, timeline and timeline and did it really really well and you had two characters that were in that loop that had some lessons learned along the way um that's absolutely a timeless concept if you had to guess how many how many years do you think Phil was stuck in that loop?

You know, I feel like I had always just assumed it had something to do with like,

oh, it's because the whole thing is, you know, we have six more weeks of winter.

So my thought was he does six weeks worth of days.

But I know that's not right because that's impossible. I mean, he has to get in 10,000 hours of becoming a piano player.
So, right. Yeah.
God, it had to have been years, right? Not just what, I would assume it takes at least five, maybe 10 years to get good five years yeah five years sounds about right but he was also getting great at ice sculpting either the ice sculpting he did something else i mean he was doing the snow stuff too oh right right and well i guess that's sort of maybe that's maybe you learn maybe you get good at sculpting snow faces while you're getting good at ice sculpting.

Right.

He had his piano lesson in the morning and then his...

Right.

Harold Ramis talked about this.

He changed his answer when he was asked about it.

First, he said, oh, it was probably about 10 years.

Then he said 30 years.

Some have said 1 thousand years and he you know one of the the things about this movie that i think has has also aged well is how is the tonal changes it's a it's a gruff it's a comedy about a gruff but kind of lovable guy named phil and then it becomes really dark he's suicidal i mean he's jumping off of buildings he's he gets really it gets really dark and bleak and then it becomes a rom-com in the last basically the last half and i don't know maybe it must have been a long time he was stuck in that loop if he's if he's willing to jump off of buildings and get into a bathtub with a toaster, with bread still in the toaster, which I love as he electrocutes himself. Right.
If you're going to kill yourself, and please don't try, but if you're going to use a toaster, you may as well toast some bread while you're it okay in case you like survive for a few minutes and eat a snack right uh let's talk about next category what has aged not like fine wine but like warm milk what has not aged well in this movie i think a big thing that hasn't aged well is bill murray's reputation for on-set behavior uh he now andy mcdowell has always spoken well of him. She had no issues with him.
But Gina Davis wrote a book, came out a couple years ago. She talked about some pretty gross things that she alleges Bill Murray did on the set of when they were filming a movie called Quick Change with Gina Davis.
But I have to ask you about this one particular thing that's getting some attention from the book. You write about alleged sort of abusive behavior on the part of Bill Murray, your co-star in the 1989 film Quick Change.
You say he used a massager on you during a private meeting or tried to and got to for a little bit and another time berated you in

front of the cast and crew yet you never said anything about it at the time you said those were ways to test you well uh you know i only learned later what it was about it was at the audition that um before he would let me uh audition or talk about the role or anything I had to let him

put this massager

on, I had to lay down on a bed in the hotel suite and let him put this massager on my back and he was so insistent about it uh that i knew i was never going to be able to leave the room unless i went crazy uh uh you know, without, you know, being forced to do this thing.

And I found out later that it was because he um i had just won an oscar and he thought i'm not i'm not gonna cast her unless i know she's not gonna think she's all that and uh she has to be sure that she's gonna do what i want and then there was a movie a couple years ago an aziz anzari movie i forget the name that basically got the movie got canceled because bill murray was accused of some sort of inappropriate behavior and the movie still to this day never was never finished so bill murray's reputation i think he's a comedic genius i also think there's a lot of uh there's's a lot of problematic behavior that a lot of people have brought up that has clearly aged poorly. Yeah, and I think now, like going back and watching it and seeing the movie itself and his character in Groundhog Day, and then, you know, it's kind of like, oh, you know, are we actually just seeing him being himself in some of these takes? You just don't know yeah you just watch it a little differently well he essentially his relationship friendship with harold ramus the director ended during the filming of this movie because he was going through bill murray was going through a divorce when they were making this movie so he was going through a lot of personal issues and bill murray is famously difficult to contact to reach he would just disappear for days at a time apparently and i read this in entertainment weekly he was having he was having real problems with harold ramus and so uh the studio insisted that Bill Murray give them somebody who could be the constant go-between so they could be in touch with him because he would just disappear and not be in touch with anybody and they'd have to shoot scenes without him.
And so to be kind of a dick, according to this article, he said, okay, fine, I'll bring somebody who'll be my liaison. and he liaison and he found a deaf person just as a total f you and their relationship essentially their friendship ended bill murray and harold ramus until harold ramus's was near death i guess apparently bill went to harold's deathbed and they had some kind of um some kind of reconciliation.
So this movie ended their friendship, which is a real bummer. You know, it's a great movie.
So Bill Murray, you know, he hasn't really been canceled per se, but I feel like his reputation has taken a big hit. Yeah.
And I think he's, I feel like he recently came out and made some statements about, you know, he's really almost fully retired from, you know, big blockbuster movies. He hasn't been in a big movie in a decade at least.
And he does acknowledge his behavior sort of, but you know, you struggle with dating, right? Sure. You have a good job and cool friends, but you just aren't sure how to flirt, the apps don't work for you, and sometimes women put you in the friend zone.
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But I'm looking at the fashion.

I'm thinking, was this made in the 80s and then filmed in the late 80s and then put together?

I don't know.

It wasn't particularly bad for the time, but it definitely dated the hair the clothing choices i can't remember the name of the costume designer but i clocked her name i was like what what happened here there's a story here yeah it's i think it came out in 93 and it looks like 1987 yeah and you know you would know better than I would, guess yes now i kind of because i i'm from that era i sort of have a thing for the whole 80s look so i like rita's puffy floofy andy mcdowell's fluffy poofy hair i do have i think i'm a little jealous of puffy floofy hair because my hair will never be that at all, no matter what I do.

Next category.

Did they make kiss-tory? K-I-S-S. When they finally kissed, when they finally got together at the very end, how would you rate their kiss on a scale of 1 to 10? Sizzling hot? Not at all? Right.
I'm thinking, is the scale good or bad because it definitely made history is a pretty terrible kiss like it it just kind of looked like i don't know if it's like his face just looks like that it just they looked like mashed together it just was not i think the setting was very romantic yeah but Yeah. But.
We're not watching Bill Murray movies to, to, for the hot, sexy makeouts. But I did feel like the romance was, I think they, they justified it.
It was, it was quote unquote earned. But at the same time, it's not like I was like, oh man, this this is a turn-on.
Definitely not. I've seen some pretty good kisses.
This is not on a good kiss scale. This might be my favorite category.
Next, the No One Talks Like This Award. In this movie, there were two moments that jumped out.
One when phil is sitting in the diner and he's stuffing his face with crawlers and drinking coffee out of a giant pitcher and he's just basically in i am god mode and annie mcdowell rita starts quoting french poetry the wretch, concentred all in self, living shall forfeit fair renown, and doubly dying shall go down to the vile dust once he sprung, unwept, unhonored, and unsung, Sir Walter Scott.

What, you don't like poetry?

I love poetry.

I just thought that was Willard Scott.

I was confused.

And then there's a very rom-commy moment later where he's finally starting to appreciate how wonderful she is.

And he says, oh, you like boats, but not the ocean.

You like this, but that. You you like boats but not the ocean you like this but that you like boats but not the ocean you go to a lake in the summer with your family up in the mountains there's a long wooden dock and a boathouse with boards missing from the roof and a place you used to crawl underneath to be alone you're a sucker for french poetry and rhinestones.
You're very generous. You're kind to strangers and children.
And when you stand in the snow, you look like an angel. How are you doing this? I told you, I wake up every day right here, right in Punxsutawney, and it's always February 2nd, and there's nothing I can do about it.
And it's really, it's sweet, but just people don't talk like that. No, I remember those same moments, thinking, like, these are absurd, but with the actual flows and movie and the setting of it, it didn't really pull me out.
You the the it worked for what it was the the quoting when when he quotes back french poetry to her on their date it's like oh gross but it's it technically works and i'm still in the okay this is an absurd romantic comedy where he's like learning about her and memorizing all these things and going to extremes in all these directions like it's definitely strange but it works for what it is next we have the judy greer award for the best supporting character or the character we'd like to see a movie about to me i want to see a whole movie about ned needle nose ryerson i want to see yeah like a it doesn't i don't know if it's a feature necessarily but just you know something about his life what he's been doing how he got to stay in fashionably hilted puxatani because he seems to be like a pretty BMAC or BMOC

in like that area

he's like the insurance guy

there's gotta be something there

I heard a theory

I was on some other movie podcast

talking about Groundhog Day

and they said

what if Ned

is in his own time loop

and he

is reliving his

day over and over again

Thank you. What if Ned is in his own time loop and he is reliving his day over and over again? And he is just, he hasn't evolved yet.
He's stuck because he's this annoying guy who comes up and tries to sell you insurance. And he's not going to be able to escape until he finally grows into the man he was meant to be.
I thought that was a pretty cool cool theory or maybe that's yeah maybe he's reached like the peak of his evolution just being like constantly positive and forever going to sell insurance and he's just accepted it and it's like you know what that's fine that's also an option for how you can live your life what a shot do you have life insurance because if you do you could always use a little more am i right or am i right or am i right right right that's as good as it gets for ned maybe okay uh the genre swap if this movie was remade in a different genre what would the movie be like or what would the title be? I've got a couple of thoughts here. Maybe,

maybe sci-fi edge of tomorrow.

Horror.

Groundhog slay.

Ooh.

Yeah.

Or just like,

um,

uh,

like groundhogs day,

like,

like grounds,

like grinding up hogs.

Oh, horror movie. I don't know't know oh i'm not a horror freak oh my god they're actually grinding up the hogs yeah it's like soil and green soil and green is people okay and then cinemax after dark pound hog day come on who wouldn't want to watch pound hog day the main location in the film gobbler's knob it's right there gobbler's knob is going to be the location where they shoot pound hog day uh next category the tear jerking trophy what moment got to you what moment made you tear up or maybe not literally but got to your heart a little bit for me it's when he's i just have a soft spot in my heart for for older people and when he's trying to bring the old man when he's's buying him soup, just watching the old man eat soup.

And Phil is giving him a second bowl.

And the older homeless man looks at Phil when he realizes there's a second bowl coming.

And he's just so appreciative.

Oh, my God.

It's just so sweet.

Yeah, the old man.

I think that is obviously designed to be the tear jerking moment.

I didn't get anywhere near tears or jerking at any point in this movie, just for the record. But yeah, when he's doing the CPR on him and the alley, it's a very emotionally inducing moment.
Well, they'll be jerking when we watch Poundhog Day. Right, naturally.
Oh, I forgot. I forgot to mention, just real quick, going back to they don't talk like this.
Remember when the old man passes and he says, oh, I want to see his chart. What happened? Remember what the nurse said? It was just his time.
It's not the way nurses talk, I don't think. I mean, they might if it's like real busy and, you know, it's like, yeah, this nameless old person has come in and died.
And that does probably truly just happen. But yeah.
Okay, a couple more and we'll be good to go. Happily Ever After Award.
How long do they last? It's February. The movie ends.
It's February 3rd. Now, how long do these kids last days, weeks, months? What's your over under? I still don't know what an over under is, but I'm not going to tell you.
That's fine. That, that, that keeps the mystery alive in our relationship is me not understanding gambling terms um it's like you know so they're so they're co-workers that have just hooked up that are in a romantic relationship now so they've got maybe one month of like fun sneaking around you know early stages and then it's all well, I guess we should be in a relationship now.
So now they've got a month of dealing with like HR and making that, you know, public. And then maybe another month of just pure toxic chaos.
And either they decide, yeah, we're going to be toxic together together forever or they're going to shut it down so anywhere from three months to forever is my best guess okay three months to forever i think actually i think as a couple i think actually i could see them working long term because Phil has, again, he's just gone through at least 10, maybe 30 years of growth. He's incredibly evolved.
And I think Andy McDowell's character, Rita, I think she's a wonderful catch. And I think she's got it all together.
Here's the problem for this couple. He's just lived, I don't know, 50,000 straight days over and over again.
And now he's

about to go back into the regular world and everything's going to be different. I think

that's going to be traumatizing for him. Yeah.
I didn't think of that.

I think all of a sudden it's the ultimate culture shock. I'm not saying that's not necessarily

going to end their relationship, but I think first he needs a year of therapy.

It's almost like there's something called reentry shock, I think,

when, what's the term for people who?

Formerly incarcerated, right?

Yeah, it's almost like that.

It's like he just got out of prison in a sense,

or a kind of prison for a while. So he might not be dateable for a year or so he might need deep therapy yeah he's like aged 30 years but he's still the same and now he's yeah yeah i didn't think of that uh two more the grand gesture award uh most rom-coms end with some big grand gesture but what i like about groundhog day one of that one of the many charms is that there's not a huge romantic gesture it's actually really small uh the the moment when we really see that he has changed is they're just lying in bed together and she's actually asleep

and he's saying how she's the kindest,

sweetest person he's ever met.

I never told you that.

I knew that I wanted to hold you

as hard as I could. I don't deserve someone like you.
But if they were good, I swear I would love you for the rest of my life to me that's the big gesture and what I like about it is it's not a big gesture it's a really small sweet understated gesture so I'll give it a swoon on a scale of lame to swoon not because it's grand but because it's actually really understated but but sincere and sweet yeah i agree i think it's like a light swoony moment he's finally like wrapped up his journey and it's yeah it didn't need to be a grand gesture i think that would have pulled everyone out of it actually the big gesture comes from her when he's, when she buys him in the auction. Ah.
Remember that? Yeah. That's interesting.
That's the gesture. I like that.
They flipped it. She's the one who's making the gesture.
Right. I mean, yeah, I guess he kind of kicked it off with the piano playing.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. And speaking of that i'm so glad i i wanted to bring this up as a dating coach i hear this so often i hear and i and there's so much so many videos and and so-called experts talking about this on social media it's the idea of making a woman chase how do i get her to chase me what? What do you say? What do you do to get a woman to, quote, chase you? And I hate the concept of chasing somebody, that you can manipulate them into getting them to chase you.
I think what we learn from watching Phil realize that he can't get Rita to, quote, chase him, it doesn't work because it's not real. It's manipulative.
It's forced. It's dishonest.
She actually starts to pursue him when he just becomes more evolved, more awesome when he stops trying so damn hard. He's great.
He's taking piano. He's giving of himself to

others. He's helping little old ladies with the flat tire.
He's just become such a great,

not great, a better man, a good man. And that's when Rita starts to notice him

and starts bidding on him for the auction and essentially becoming really attracted to him.

What makes her quote chase is not any manipulation or move. It's just him being a man who's just putting so much great mojo and karma out into the world.
Yeah. Being on it, being your authentic self is what makes you appealing to the people that you want to be interested in you the chase is just human interest and wanting to pursue somebody and learn more about them and yeah be a part of their life and have them be a part of yours yeah well there's a great moment when he's finally turned a corner he's really accepted his realized, you know what, I'm going to accept where I am and make the best of this.
And there's a great moment when he's eloquently talking about what Groundhog Day now means to him on air, on the camera. He talks about being welcomed into the people's hearts and hearths of Punxsutawney.
But standing here among the people of Punxsutawney and basking in the warmth of their hearths and hearts, I couldn't imagine a better fate than a long and lustrous winter. And that's the moment when Rita looks at him and says, Hey, Phil, that was great.
Do you want to go get coffee? And it's not because he said anything gamey or manipulative. It's because he's just evolved into an even better, the best possible version of him.
And that's what's making her interested. I think that's a great lesson.
You can't teach that in a pickup class. You got to earn that to become that man.
You can't fake that. That's exactly.
Yeah. Uh, and he's like, sorry, I got to go.
And he's, he's busy catching a child who's falling out of a tree. I'd love to meet you.
Can we, can we take a rain check? I got to go catch this kid. He's going to fall out of a tree.
Yes, we As we do. Oh, another one last quick dating tip that I love about good Phil, and you might be able to speak to this.
I think you probably would agree, is that he never totally loses his dickishness, right? He's still a little bit of a dick, right? Yeah, he's a smartass. You get that.
Yeah. There's an edge there i think is is cool uh and not everybody has that dickish edge i do and i let it come out but i not in a fake way but don't lose that edge and he doesn't lose it either he's still you know he saves that kid who falls out of the tree but he's like well you never thank me I'll be back tomorrow maybe you know but of course

he will

he really has become super like the most evolved version of him. And that's why I read a ghost for him.
So I guess my tip for you guys listening is just spend 30,000 years in a time loop, become a super evolved. And then you can date your Andyy mcdowell type you can you can hook up

with your co-worker okay last one the final category the final award what is the movie's

biggest love lesson i'll let you go first ladies first how about you go first because

my final thoughts are that

the

the

the

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the

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the

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the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

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the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

the

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the

the

the

the

the

the

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the

the

the the the the the the romantic aspects of this are the primary messages that we're supposed to get from this. But maybe have a different take as you know an expert i think that the romance i think it's a device he needs to find motivation to grow and he needs to become worthy of love and so my the biggest love lesson for me from Groundhog Day is to become worthy of an incredible woman's love, you've got to grow into a better man and you've got to give to her, to the world, to others.
You can't be so selfish. You've got to be more selfless and you've also got to keep growing.
And I think it's only when he's grown to the best fill, and he's actually thinking about others and contributing, that's when Rita falls for him. So to me, that's the biggest love lesson.
Grow and give, and that's how you're going to get a great girlfriend. But what do I know? I only have the greatest girlfriend in the world.
Oh, stop. What? Who's that? So that's my love lesson um but i do i but i want to make sure i honor your point what were you trying to say or what were you saying about the rom aspect of this i feel like i've seen people or heard people say like oh this is one of the greatest rom-coms of all time it's not it's not a is it a rom-com we're talking about rom-coms here i maintain that it's a comedy i think the kind of like like the the romantic aspect of it is a mechanism this is again this is the 90s the rom-com boom you need that romantic relationship as a tool i think to demonstrate what you're saying is you know a big piece of making your life better for yourself is working on yourself and engaging in that journey.
Even if you're not stuck in a time loop, you know, you can approach every day with that same sort of mentality of like, what am I going to do today that was different than yesterday? How am I going to present, how am I going to make these changes so I present myself differently to people?'ll have better relationships with women I'll have better relationships with my co-workers I'll have a better outlook on my job and how it's important I mean him being you know the journalist and him being in the role that he's in as a caster he has this responsibility to share his take and his perspective on events that are happening in the world and his journey helps him approach it differently like we see in the movie i think what i love about the movie is that it's a lot of different things for different people i think you're right i don't think it's a rom-com in the classic harry met sally sense i think it's it's there are definitely, I mean, there's romance in it, and they go from not liking each other to being together. So in that sense, it's a rom-com.
But it's also a movie about growing into a better person. It's about maybe accepting where you are and letting go of things you can't control.

Just saying, all right, this is the situation.

I'm going to make the best of it that I can.

I think that's one of the reasons why so many people love this movie is it can be a lot of different things to different people.

To me, part of it's a rom-com.

Part of it's a silly 90s comedy.

Part of it's a bleak, not bleak, but soulful deep look at at what can cause somebody to lose hope and how they get that hope back to me it's it's all those things um and it's chris elliott so i'm a chris elliott fan too that's fair all right well thank you so much for being with me tonight sch Shmoopy, and helping me launch It's Rom Complicated. Thanks for having me.
All right. That is the first of, I hope, many episodes of It's Rom Complicated.
The next episode of It's Rom Complicated, to be decided. But the next episode of the How to a girlfriend podcast we'll be we'll be back to those core nuts and bolts of um how to flirt how to get more dates how to meet women in real life which we're going to be talking about in upcoming episodes as we lead up to valentine's day so thank you thank you so much for being here for listening i know there's a million podcasts out there.
Thanks for choosing mine.

And don't forget, you're a dream girlfriend.

She's out there, just like mine was.

And she already likes you, or she will like you.

She just has to meet the real authentic you.

So go out there, carpe datum, seize the date.