Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen

Speaker 1 I come from a family steeped in

Speaker 1 talking about your feelings. And my family can't stop talking about your feelings.
No, they cannot.

Speaker 1 As much as you would wish,

Speaker 1 they are incapable of that. I just knew I was completely incapable of dealing with this.
And I was just like, this is like a professional level of grief

Speaker 1 and something that you need to have gone to school to understand how to navigate this kind of thing. And

Speaker 1 that was very helpful.

Speaker 2 Yes. Seth was the one that was like i love you i'm happy to you know hold you while you cry but you need a professional and i did yeah i really did and and it really helped

Speaker 1 this episode is brought to you by koliguard and pine soul

Speaker 1 hey you hi craig how are you michelle hey i'm doing pretty good good we're back at our nice airbnb taping out here on the west coast it's so beautiful out here i know good weather coming from it's like east coast doesn't you know weather is a little chilly in the midwest it was we had our coldest week and it hit down into the 30s which isn't that cold for us but it's cold i know but when you live in cold weather you know how in chicago if it's if it's been zero degrees or below zero 40 people are like going to the beach it's like yeah 40 degrees and people are like, it's hot out here.

Speaker 1 So I feel like I've lost my cold weather edge. Yeah.
It's kind of a wimp. Yeah, people who live in the Midwest don't know DC is warm most of the time.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 That's one of the reasons why we like it there. I mean, you get pretty good weather.
You get all seasons, but the summers are hot and swampy. So it's good to be in LA and it's good to be with you.

Speaker 3 So fun to be with you.

Speaker 1 I'm just having a ball doing these.

Speaker 1 But today we've got, you know, we're talking about some tough stuff. Stuff we have tough stuff.
We've been dealing with. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And, you know,

Speaker 3 we're going to talk about

Speaker 3 people who are dealing with family members with Alzheimer's.

Speaker 3 And,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 I was talking to the crew before we got started.

Speaker 3 And, you know, you talk about our Uncle Terry, our great Uncle Terry, and we didn't know what Alzheimer's was or dementia or anything like that back when we were younger, but we've been fortunate.

Speaker 3 We haven't had to deal with this like some people have.

Speaker 1 Just to give listeners some context.

Speaker 1 So we grew up in a multi-generational household. You know, Aunt Robbie was our piano teacher.
She was like the piano teacher for the entire neighborhood.

Speaker 1 And Uncle Terry was kind of this distinguished gentleman

Speaker 1 who

Speaker 1 one thing stood out with Terry is like every day he wore a suit, coat and tie, and suspenders with a brimmed hat.

Speaker 1 He would wake up every day and shave. He had a, he was very regimented.
You know, he, he would eat prunes every day. I remember that distinctly, stewed prunes.
Right. Didn't know why.

Speaker 1 Um, now, as I get older, I understand that Stewart crudely. He was ahead of the game.
He was ahead of the game. But just setting the stage for as he aged, and he lived into his 80s.
80s.

Speaker 1 And both he and Aunt Robbie started to age as we grew up and became, I think it was by the time we were in eighth grade, it seemed like middle school age when Terry really started

Speaker 1 exhibiting signs of dementia. You know, it came in the form of

Speaker 1 nighttime,

Speaker 1 just confusion.

Speaker 1 So things, the things that we remembered growing up was always at night because sometimes he started getting up and walking and reliving things.

Speaker 1 And at first I thought it was nightmares.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 we always thought it was nightmares and we only noticed it at night because during the day, mom and dad would handle things and not worry us with it. But at night,

Speaker 3 you couldn't help it.

Speaker 1 But realized that he would get up in his pajamas and leave the house, sometimes with no shoes.

Speaker 1 And, you know, and then the search would be on. Where is Terry? You know, he got out and Aunt Robbie was getting older.
So she didn't know what to do.

Speaker 1 So our parents, our mother and father essentially became caretakers for them.

Speaker 1 And, you know, looking back, they were in that sandwich generation where they had young kids that they were raising, not a lot of resources, two really wonderful people who were aging right before their very eyes.

Speaker 1 And my mom, who was staying at home, was, you know, she would take care of Robbie, bathe her. organize her food.
Dad would take care of Terry, make sure that he was still shaven.

Speaker 1 It was really a sweet image to have our father, who himself was

Speaker 1 disabled.

Speaker 3 You know,

Speaker 3 just to remind our listeners, our dad had MS and walked with a limp from the time we knew him, and it got progressively worse.

Speaker 3 And he would limp his way downstairs and bathe Terry and shave him and get him out of bed. And, you know, it got to a point where he would ask me to go down with him to help him because

Speaker 3 it was getting hard for him to do it. And it was really an eye-opening thing for me to see.

Speaker 1 Well, they made it look easy, our parents did, in this multi-generational household.

Speaker 1 But now, as we're adults and look back, I mean, we just went through caring for mom.

Speaker 1 And she fortunately never went through any dementia, but she got to the point where just sort of physically, she needed more care than she wanted.

Speaker 1 And just the anxiety that comes with that, you know, just realizing that that's what mom and dad were dealing with. with no money, you know, needing to work every day.

Speaker 1 And I can tell you, we never talked about this, but I did feel a little like

Speaker 1 lost

Speaker 1 because I felt like I didn't have mom's attention, you know, in a way, you know, you, I didn't want to say that out loud, but I know when I think back on it, I felt, wow, she was exhausted.

Speaker 1 And I felt her exhaustion in the form of

Speaker 1 like she wasn't there for me in the same way. You know, she would cook dinner, but then she'd have to go down and do something for Robbie.
Or at night, she couldn't sleep because Terry would get out.

Speaker 1 It just, you know,

Speaker 1 I think now that I look back as a kid, I felt that loss.

Speaker 3 See, I never knew that. And you're right.
We didn't, we have never talked about that. And, you know, I was your typical boy.
So I didn't, I didn't, yeah, I felt like

Speaker 3 mom was doing what she had to do. So whatever I wasn't getting, I sort of just thugged through it.

Speaker 1 and yeah um well so many families and we're going to talk about this more are in that same kind of that same kind of crunch um with aging parents young kids um

Speaker 1 a sort of health care community that isn't really you know prepared um to support families in this process and you know we we are going to spend some time talking about that more today yeah and we have the perfect couple to help us with that.

Speaker 3 We've got Seth and Lauren Rogan with us today, and they have some history with caring for a parent who's had Alzheimer's disease. And so I'm really interested in that.

Speaker 3 And for those of you who don't know,

Speaker 3 Lauren is a screenwriter, producer.

Speaker 1 uh director actress uh and most of all a philanthropist along with Seth.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 Seth really doesn't need any introduction, but he's also a fine actor and a funny person and

Speaker 3 writer, screen, screenwriter, producer, director.

Speaker 3 But I want to welcome our guests, Lauren and Seth Rogan. Come on out, gang.

Speaker 1 Hey, guys.

Speaker 4 Welcome to the table.

Speaker 4 Thank you.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 3 We're so happy you're here.

Speaker 1 It's so nice to meet you.

Speaker 2 Very excited to chat with you guys.

Speaker 1 Pleasure. All right.
Come on in.

Speaker 1 We have not officially

Speaker 1 met or

Speaker 1 had an opportunity to spend time together. And, you know, I'm a fan.
Thank you. Me too.

Speaker 1 But it's just sort of amazing to, you know, know that

Speaker 1 people we see and come to love, you know, to hear about their lives outside of the work that they do and the things that make them famous.

Speaker 1 And, you know, our topic today, all-time areas, aging parents. I mean, you guys have lived it.
And, you know, in addition to all the things you do in the business, you know,

Speaker 1 you're making a difference in people's lives. And so I just am grateful for the work that you do and just thankful that you guys are here to share some of that with us.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 Thank you for saying that. That means a lot coming from you.

Speaker 1 So thank you.

Speaker 1 So how are you guys? We're, we're, we're good.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we're very good. You know, it's, and it's crazy times and

Speaker 2 busy.

Speaker 1 And, you know, you're working on some good, good, fun stuff lately. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Lots of stuff. Uh, I've been very fortunate to be working a ton.
We're producing a movie together, actually, about Alzheimer's, actually.

Speaker 2 A young woman caring for her mom with Alzheimer's based on a graphic novel about a young woman caring for her mom. And whatever.

Speaker 1 And it's great. It's an animated film that's very sad and funny.
And Julia Louis Dreyfus stars as the matriarch character who

Speaker 1 decide that animation was a good way to go.

Speaker 2 Honestly, it was the book itself. It really captured the caregiving experience from a young person's point of view with

Speaker 2 humor and a lot of deep sadness. And the, the, it's, it's black and white, hand-drawn.
Wow. And there's something sort of very poignant, I think, about that visual.

Speaker 1 And how was it for you guys in the process of making it? You know, did it take you back?

Speaker 1 You know, how did you manage it just getting through the project emotionally?

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, we've been working on it since 2016. Yeah.
Because it takes a long time to get a movie made.

Speaker 1 I've been learning.

Speaker 2 And then to make a movie.

Speaker 1 Especially an animated movie that is not expensive.

Speaker 2 We were recording last week just with Abby Jacobson and recording some of the more emotionally heavy scenes. And definitely, you know, there was not a dry eye in the recording studio.
Oh, I bet.

Speaker 2 You know, but it's... In a way, it feels so good to tell a story like this in a way that like, I think, is very,

Speaker 2 it's not going to hit you over the head with sadness.

Speaker 1 No, it's very entertaining. Yeah.

Speaker 1 yeah it feels good to take something so sad and turn it into something that is meant for ultimately yeah for enjoyment and entertainment and although it's a sad movie i think it's very uplifting and poignant and and and yeah it's a very nice creative exercise in that way yeah but we don't talk a lot about alzheimer's and as craig and i were sharing earlier like growing up we we didn't even have a name for it um you know it would just sort of terry got out.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You know, that's what it was.
You know, and eventually

Speaker 1 our grandfather rigged the house with buzzers and locks. And, you know, so it became less a discussion about the disease.

Speaker 1 or the issue because it wasn't known as a disease and it was just the process of containing him.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's, you know, it's a disease that carries so much stigma, you know, dating back to when you guys were experiencing firsthand as children and people didn't really know and were were really scared and would look at someone with dementia and and have so much fear.

Speaker 2 And I think in the in the decades that have followed since then,

Speaker 2 I think that that stigma has lessened, especially in the last five or 10 years, I think.

Speaker 1 It feels like in the last decade, there's been like a seismic shift in people's understanding of Alzheimer's and like willingness to even talk about it.

Speaker 1 Like when we first started like doing charity in the Alzheimer's world, like nobody wanted to talk about it even and getting getting people with Alzheimer's to speak and to kind of come forward and share their experience was very hard.

Speaker 1 And even

Speaker 1 people who had family members didn't want to talk about it.

Speaker 1 It was, yeah, we've, I think, personally seen Alzheimer's kind of start to go over that hump from being something like no one talks about to being something that like people are.

Speaker 1 seem more willing to talk about, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah. And even in the early years of my mom's diagnosis.

Speaker 1 Because she was early on stage. Yeah.
She was very young.

Speaker 2 She was very young. She started showing signs at 52 and then was diagnosed just before she was 55.

Speaker 2 So, you know, and she had, unfortunately, we had all witnessed my grandparents, her parents have dementia. And so in those early years, my mom herself was ashamed and didn't want us to talk about it.

Speaker 2 My mom was a teacher. She taught elementary school for 35 years, first grade for most of that.

Speaker 2 And then...

Speaker 2 to go from this woman who was an active teacher with children every day to someone who eventually was a shell of herself over a close to 18 year year journey was, you know, a long, long road.

Speaker 2 But not talking about it in the beginning because of that stigma, because of that fear that she had that we all had didn't help anyone, didn't help me, didn't help her, doesn't help the overall cause.

Speaker 2 And so eventually, you know, as storytellers, we just kind of had to talk about it. I couldn't keep it in any longer.
And for better or worse, my mom's disease advanced.

Speaker 2 And so, you know, but I think once we started sharing our story

Speaker 2 was when I started to feel like I had any type of control over this thing that I didn't actually have any control over and I just want to Lauren how old were you when she was first diagnosed I just wanted to get a sense of where were you in your life yeah you started losing your mom yeah just before I turned 25

Speaker 2 so really young yeah you were yeah it was at my college graduation when I was 22 that she repeated a story a couple times throughout that weekend and because of what I had seen with my grandparents, you knew what I knew.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I, but I didn't say anything out loud to anyone for close to, I guess, a year and a half after that.
And then eventually we, we were dating at that point, and my parents came out to visit.

Speaker 2 And it was very clear to me that this was happening. And I dropped them off at the airport and I came back to Seth's apartment.

Speaker 2 And I just, it was the first time I had said it out loud to anyone, like something is going on.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you said it to Seth. I said it to Seth and he was like, she seemed fine.

Speaker 1 And I was like, of course. Like, I guess, I didn't really know her.
I didn't know her.

Speaker 1 I didn't know her at all, really. So,

Speaker 1 yeah, it was like one of the

Speaker 1 first times I met her.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, but but you know, soon it was it was obvious that unfortunately this was our path.

Speaker 3 Well, you know, um,

Speaker 3 another story I think about is

Speaker 3 how mom and dad trained us to work hard.

Speaker 3 Do you remember the chores?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, we had chores very early on.

Speaker 1 Very early on. That's another thing I think, you know,

Speaker 1 one of the best things that our parents did for us is real work. Real

Speaker 1 work around the house.

Speaker 3 And what I mean by real work is I had my chores were to clean the bathroom.

Speaker 1 I cleaned the bathroom. What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 We alternate.

Speaker 3 We alternated weeks.

Speaker 1 Okay, because I loved cleaning the bathroom.

Speaker 3 And I didn't, but I had to do it. Mom wanted us both to know how to have a clean bathroom.
But my every

Speaker 3 weekend job

Speaker 3 was cleaning those stairs.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's right. Yeah.

Speaker 3 We had 14 stairs. Notice I remember how many there were.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you had to. Yeah.
That. Went from

Speaker 3 our apartment down to our aunt, great aunt Robbie's apartment. And this is what I remember about Saturday morning.

Speaker 3 You remember that tin pot that we used to have? We had a tin pot, a pot now that used to be on the stove, which was now used for cleaning.

Speaker 3 And you put a little soap, dish soap in it, and then you put pine salt.

Speaker 3 And there was nothing like that smell. Like when you came home from school and mom had been mopping and you could smell the pine salt, it was usually Monday because she had laundry on Monday.

Speaker 3 You come home from school and it smells like a

Speaker 1 new house yeah

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 i have to say that

Speaker 3 i to still to this day when i'm mopping

Speaker 3 if we don't have that pine oil smell that's it that's it isn't it

Speaker 3 And here we are in adulthood and they're a partner of ours on this podcast.

Speaker 1 You know, and an appropriate partner. How about it? So

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Speaker 3 You know, I think back to the time when my dad was working for the city of Chicago as a stationary fireman, and it seemed to us that he never missed work and he never got sick.

Speaker 3 But what we realized is that my dad didn't want to take his paid sick time because he wasn't sure if he would keep his job by doing that.

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Speaker 3 And before we get to the question, I want you to tell us about hilarity for charity.

Speaker 2 Yeah. We, you know, like I said, we spent the first few years feeling scared and sad and didn't know what to do.
And then eventually we were just like, I have to start talking about it.

Speaker 2 So we went to a few events and then a friend came to us and is like, let's throw a variety show and we'll raise money for Alzheimer's in honor of your mom, which was incredibly moving.

Speaker 2 And up until that point, this was in 2012, I felt very alone. I was like, I'm the only young person dealing with this.

Speaker 2 And of course, I was horribly wrong, which I luckily was wrong because I wasn't alone. And there was, for better or worse, a community of young people who were dealing with it.

Speaker 2 And so I think that helped us sort of form the idea of let's create something where young people can have a voice and they can feel like they are part of giving back.

Speaker 2 And like I said, having some sort of control over something that they don't have control over. And so we just sort of looked at our own situation when we started raising money as an organization.

Speaker 2 And we're like, how can we actually help people today in this moment?

Speaker 1 And we were finding with Lauren's mother, who was progressing, that.

Speaker 1 Like, it was one of these things in life where like money just made it better. Like, and like, you know, it's unfair when those things happen.

Speaker 1 And you don't, you know, it's not like you want to look at a kid in the face and be like, money can actually fix some major problems it won't it cannot buy happiness but it can for sure alleviate stress and and angst you know and and the sense of impending doom you know um and yeah we had around the clock we were able to buy like a duplex for lauren's uh mother and father and he lived in one side and she lived in the other side with like a 24 hours a day, seven day a week care.

Speaker 1 And we just saw like, oh, this has made everyone's lives so much more manageable. And that was really part of the inspiration for like, what do we do with the money we are raising?

Speaker 1 Maybe we can help alleviate other people's

Speaker 1 problems.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So that's how we started our grant program in which we provide respite care to people who are caring for their loved ones at home.

Speaker 2 And we read applications every month and the stories are unbelievably real and often quite sad and dire.

Speaker 2 And people are, you know, doing everything they can with what they have, but it's often not enough to care for someone with this disease. And they need help, they need respite, they need a break.

Speaker 2 And so, that's where part of our money goes into awarding these respite grants to people who are caring for their loved ones at home. We also created a lot of support groups.

Speaker 2 I was part of a support group for young people. The first support group I went to was like just a general group.

Speaker 2 And I remember there was a man in there who was in his 50s caring for his mother, who was probably in her late 70s or 80s caring for his mother. And I was just like, that's sad.
But I'm 23.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like we're in drastically different boats. And so actually the woman who ran that support group was one who created this group for young people.
And it was people under, I think, 35.

Speaker 2 And, and that really showed me community.

Speaker 2 Being with people who understand exactly what you're going through is so helpful and can really, really get you through a tough situation.

Speaker 2 So we made a lot of different support groups, made them accessible. We were, we were doing online virtual support groups since 2014, long before they went out on Zoom.

Speaker 2 And so doing that.

Speaker 2 And then, of course, we have a lot of programming for caregivers symposiums. We do a large virtual event every year.
All throughout the year, we do virtual learning workshops for people

Speaker 2 and created what we call like the five brain health tips. So it's getting good sleep, eating well.
exercising, emotional well-being.

Speaker 2 So, you know, being active, being loved, doing therapy, meditating, and then learning new things, like being mentally fit. So new hobbies,

Speaker 2 being socially active, those types of things.

Speaker 1 And they've talked that it's different from, like some people think puzzling and things like that, but they're learning that that's not necessarily the same thing as learning a brand new skill.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Like they say crossword puzzles look probably better than staring at the television.

Speaker 2 But yeah, if you're doing a crossword puzzle, you're accessing what's already in your brain. You want to learn new things.
So like we took up pottery.

Speaker 2 I'm now doing Duolingo and, you know, and just always trying to keep your brain like learning and growing as much as you can. And we created online coursework called HFC Universe.

Speaker 2 And the first level is taught by Seth and some other fellow celebrity professors.

Speaker 1 Brunson, Kristen Bell, and yeah, some other people.

Speaker 1 Well, here's what's funny. We actually,

Speaker 1 this is sad when I'm about to break.

Speaker 1 We did a scientific study that was published where me and the neurologist Richard Isaacson both taught the same coursework to kids.

Speaker 1 And we proved definitively that young people learn things better from celebrities than from actual doctors. Wow.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 It is good to know. I know.
So whenever someone's like, why are you doing this? I'm like, because scientists told me you will retain it better if you hear it from me.

Speaker 1 the only thing i wish that worked with voting you know i mean

Speaker 1 yeah and i'm not to not to bring us down yeah you know that was the hope but no no no lauren does he make you call him dr rogan then exactly only something only yeah

Speaker 1 so what do you what are you teaching what do you tell teach us something well again i think for the moment lauren's talking about sleep is actually one of i think the things that especially in like our culture like you've been conditioned to deprioritize sleep and Definitely, it's been a terrible break.

Speaker 1 It's crazy.

Speaker 1 And you're frying your brain in the process.

Speaker 1 It's true. And that's something that

Speaker 1 I think, yeah, is very easy for, and it's good news. Like, that's one of the few good ones.
It's like, most people like to sleep, to be told, like, prioritize your sleep. I'm a big fan of sleep.

Speaker 1 Lauren's great. Bedtime is my favorite time.
That's like Lauren.

Speaker 1 Literally, you got to bed last night.

Speaker 2 I was like, this is my favorite time today.

Speaker 1 You started barack. I'm just like, oh, that's over.

Speaker 1 And I'm I like, there you are. You know, we got our puppy.
It's just really.

Speaker 2 But yeah, no, it's funny because so many people are like, how could I sleep better? My sleep is terrible. And it's like, well, you actually can if you work on it and you bring in some tools and aids.

Speaker 2 We have a cooling pad. I have a weighted blanket.
I have the best mask. We do white noise.
I have cooling sheets.

Speaker 1 300 things. I am not aware.

Speaker 2 But because I do track my sleep, I see that doing those things legitimately increased it.

Speaker 1 Sounds like that would keep me wide awake. Yeah, exactly.
Also, that's stressful. You do get a score.
Now, like, every, it's like they've gamified it.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, like, I get a sleep score, which does in the middle of the night, I'll be awake and I'm like, my score is plummeting.

Speaker 1 And that morning, I'm like, would you leave a body?

Speaker 1 I know. I had a pretty good score last night.

Speaker 3 This might be a good time to hear our question from our listener because

Speaker 3 let's help them get some solutions. So, we have Natalie, who's our producer, will read the question and then we'll.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, Natalie, you are involved. Yes.
She wants to pretend like I'm a matter of

Speaker 4 Hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is Nick and I'm 38 years old and I live in Miami, Florida.

Speaker 4 I have an elderly mother who's recently been admitted to an assisted living community due to her Alzheimer's disease progressing beyond our family's care. But the road to getting there was tough.

Speaker 4 For several years, my dad and I were her primary caregivers.

Speaker 4 Well, my dad was her primary caregiver, taking care of the house, cleaning, cooking. And then I was my dad's caregiver.

Speaker 4 I'd grocery shop for him, make sure he was eating properly, come over to watch the game. But that often meant I was leaving my own wife and young son at home a few nights a week.

Speaker 4 Now my relationship with my wife is suffering.

Speaker 4 She's very understanding of my situation, but we lack any real time together outside of going to work, taking care of our house, making sure our son has everything he needs.

Speaker 4 And then recently, in one of our weekly visits to see my mom in her new care facility, she introduced us to her new boyfriend that she met there.

Speaker 4 The only problem is, my dad is very much in love with her and dedicated to her still.

Speaker 4 We know in our heads that this is the disease taking its effect, but we're having a difficult time watching my mom turn into someone that sees me and my father as, quote, the assholes out to ruin her relationship with the love of her life.

Speaker 4 And now I'm left wondering, after all these years of strain, what will the emotional follow of all of this be?

Speaker 4 My dad's sense of himself without my mom and his heartbreak at what's happening at the end.

Speaker 4 I'll continue to be there for him, but my own home life has suffered so much for so long, and I know my wife and son deserve so much more.

Speaker 4 In the midst of it all, I haven't even begun to try to come to terms with the fact that my mom is no longer the same person that raised me and supported me through the best and worst moments of my life.

Speaker 4 And soon that she won't be here with us at all. How do we even begin to come together again as a family when we're all exhausted, already devastated, and have no real time to take care of ourselves?

Speaker 4 How do we move forward, each of us, successfully from here? Thanks for your thoughts, Nick.

Speaker 1 Keeping it light.

Speaker 1 Nick's going through it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 And thank you again for the animated film. Yes.

Speaker 1 We will need it. It'll help us.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Wow. That's a lot, Nick.

Speaker 2 There's a lot to unpack there.

Speaker 1 Well, I think one of the things that we learned early on is I remember because Lauren's father was taking care of Lauren's mother and was very resistant to getting help.

Speaker 1 I think, especially generationally, it's like, and his,

Speaker 1 his parents had, you know, like there had been things in his family where people had been put in homes. And I think he was not thrilled with how that was.

Speaker 1 So he was very insistent on kind of bearing the weight of it.

Speaker 1 And one thing we learned was that often caretakers die before the person they are taking care of because of the physical and emotional toll it takes on them.

Speaker 1 And that was something we were like seeing happen in real time, basically, you know?

Speaker 2 Yeah, very much. It was very, my parents were in Florida at the time.
We were in Los Angeles. And it was very clear that the, the strain that was on my dad as her caregiver was not good.

Speaker 2 And it was so heavy and so immense.

Speaker 1 And so it was one of those things where like he was in it and we would like leave and come back every once in a while.

Speaker 1 And I think like the three months that, you know, didn't seem like things had gotten much worse from his perspective.

Speaker 1 And then we, you know, because we, again, were coming and going, would come back and be like, oh my God, like this is a mess. So bad.

Speaker 3 And how did that manifest in actually

Speaker 3 what were the stressors that you saw?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, so my mom, you know, early onset is, well, so Dr.
Isaacson will quote him and say, like, if you've seen one case of Alzheimer's, you've seen one case of Alzheimer's.

Speaker 2 So it really does affect everyone differently. Although, of course, there are some things that, you know, are a bit more universal.

Speaker 2 So my mom just started getting more and more difficult, resistant to help.

Speaker 2 She also would. wander.
She would walk around the house from sun up to way past sundown and just scream. And eventually she started screaming screaming for hours, walking around and screaming.

Speaker 2 She also would walk out the door. My dad had to sort of put paper over the windows to cover up what was outside to try to keep her inside.

Speaker 2 And the toll it was taking on was huge, as I said. And we often felt like when we tried to step into caregive, there was resistance because he really, he was her caregiver.

Speaker 1 And he felt like he had like a system. Yeah.
Like he was like, this is, I know how to work the system. You guys are messing with

Speaker 3 your mom, but actually from your dad. Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 It quickly, you know, after the first couple years, it was clear. I would say by the time she was 58, 57, maybe she had to retire from teaching,

Speaker 2 maybe 56 even. And then by, yeah, by 58, 59, she really needed care.

Speaker 2 She was still mobile at that point, but it was pretty hard to, you know, get her to focus or, you know, stay calm in a lot of moments.

Speaker 2 And so I, you know, I was in therapy at the time, still am. And, you know, my therapist was like, well, if your dad is the primary caregiver, then you should be your dad's primary caregiver.

Speaker 2 So sort of like, you know, what our

Speaker 2 what Nick is what Nick has said is,

Speaker 2 you know, when someone is the primary caregiver and they are showing that they are taking the lead, then as the child, it was my, it was very helpful to me to know how I could help. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, before it was like, I don't know what to do or how to help. So it was like, how do we make this easier for my dad? So then he can help my mom.

Speaker 1 But there's also the nuance of like,

Speaker 1 when do you kind of force them into doing things they don't want to do? Cause like,

Speaker 1 because yeah, like you hope people will arrive at what is the right decision on their own. Yeah, but that doesn't always happen.
That does not always happen in the amount of time it needs to.

Speaker 1 And so I feel like there was a moment where we were like, it was my dad actually, who has no filter whatsoever. It was, it really was

Speaker 1 like we were were going to their house in Florida on Thanksgiving. Yeah, and my dad was just like,

Speaker 1 he talked with his eyes closed, and he was just like, you have to move out of this house and you have to move to California and you have to not be alone here.

Speaker 1 Like, he's like, this is an excruciating situation for you. It's excruciating for your children.
It's just getting worse and worse.

Speaker 1 And he's like, there's absolutely no excuse to not leave and to come to Los Angeles. Well, then, this is one of these issues that even transcends the Alzheimer's issue.

Speaker 1 It's, you know, dealing with aging parents. Seriously.

Speaker 1 It was, you know, one of the challenges with my mom, who, you know, again, was always independent, but there was a level of pride in her.

Speaker 1 And even though we had the resources,

Speaker 1 she resented the health

Speaker 1 that we were. And so then I found myself sort of in a reverse parent-child relationship

Speaker 1 because getting her to stick to the diet she was supposed to have or, you know,

Speaker 1 trying to make sure that she was being nice to the caregivers.

Speaker 1 You know, I could empathize with her, feeling like she wanted to maintain as much control, but she was making it hard. And this is with resources.

Speaker 1 So, a lot of families are dealing with this kind of stress of aging parents not really being able to let go

Speaker 1 and doing it because they don't want to be a burden in their minds. Absolutely.
But don't realize how much harder they're making it emotional for people by not

Speaker 1 getting help and just yeah,

Speaker 1 yeah, pride

Speaker 1 is a is a tough thing sometimes, I think, you know, and and and sometimes makes things better and sometimes makes things worse. You know, yeah.

Speaker 2 And I think, you know, my mom, having seen both of her parents go through it and my dad witnessing my mom's parents go through it, they saw a lot of things they were obviously scared of and didn't want to repeat.

Speaker 2 You know, per Nick's question, I'll share my grandfather, my mom's dad,

Speaker 2 when he was, he was older, his onset was sort of in his 70s. But my grandmother,

Speaker 2 you know, was having trouble caring for him at home and put him in a nursing facility. And shortly after he was there, walked in and there he was with his new girlfriend.

Speaker 2 And I was, you know, I was under 10 at the time, so I don't have a huge memory of it, but I know that it upset her so much that she took him out of that, that home and put him somewhere else that was unfortunately lesser.

Speaker 2 And that move wasn't good for anyone. Yeah.
And wasn't good for him, wasn't good for her. I don't think it was good for my mom or my uncle witnessing that.

Speaker 2 And so I think that my

Speaker 2 dad, when he was faced with it, really wanted to take that. history into,

Speaker 2 you know, his decision to keep my mom at home entirely and to bring care in, which is wonderful, but as Seth touched on, not financially feasible for so many people.

Speaker 2 And so I think it comes back to, and it's so hard, and I can say it and it's easy, but like a level of acceptance.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And, you know, meeting someone where they're at.

Speaker 2 And my mom early on actually kind of gave me an amazing gift. Early on in her, after her diagnosis, I asked her one day if she was scared.

Speaker 2 And she told me that she wasn't scared for her, but she was scared for us

Speaker 2 because she knew what we were going to be going through because she had gone through it herself.

Speaker 2 But that I was not to stop my life for her.

Speaker 2 And I was not to move back home to Florida.

Speaker 2 I was not to give up who I was becoming. in my early 20s to take care of her.

Speaker 2 And I think that, you know, when I think of Nick in this situation, how we talked about she's, his mom is not who she used to be.

Speaker 2 And I think it's hard, but to remember that, and we're not parents, but to imagine that I assume all parents want their children to be happy.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 And ultimately, at the end of the day, that's what they would want. And so you have to, as the caregiver, sort of sit back and think, my mom, my dad, they'd want me to be.
happy.

Speaker 2 And what does that mean? What choices do I need to make in order to still live my own life in the way that my parent would want me to?

Speaker 2 And so people who are in the sandwich generation who are in the thick of it, right? Like caring for kids, caring for parents, have double duty of care. And it's so incredibly hard to manage that.

Speaker 2 And you just have to

Speaker 2 sort of accept you cannot make everyone happy

Speaker 2 in every moment. And some days it'll be your mom, some days it'll be your kid.
And hopefully more often than not, it'll be yourself.

Speaker 2 Because that is you're like what the oxygen mask thing, right? You put it on yourself before anyone else.

Speaker 2 Like you can't take care of other people if you're not taking care of yourself, which is why ultimately I figured I needed to care for my dad so he could care for my mom.

Speaker 2 And so, you know, I think that,

Speaker 2 you know, you just have to understand your situation and then you look for resources.

Speaker 2 You know, unfortunately, our country

Speaker 2 does not have universal health care as much as we all wish it did.

Speaker 2 And the resources for caregivers specifically are not yet, I would say with optimism, where they could be.

Speaker 2 Although there have been strides, and there are actually a few government programs and state to state, it's also different, where you can get reimbursements, stipends, et cetera, for care, or even reimbursements for yourself, taking time off work.

Speaker 2 That's a huge thing.

Speaker 2 You know, if you're in the sandwich generation, you're often you're caring for a parent, you're caring for a child, and you have a job.

Speaker 2 Like, how do you do that? So I'll say we, we at HFC have, we provide connections to care and navigation services. So I will say like that is a huge thing.

Speaker 2 Go to a professional who can help you, a social worker who can say, okay, this is your situation. Here's what's available to you.
Here's things you can apply for. Anyone who is,

Speaker 2 if you're at the beginning, middle, and at any point, turning to a professional, a care navigator, social worker, they can really help.

Speaker 1 And remembering, there's there is no shame in any of it.

Speaker 1 And I'm just glad that Nick is reaching out and

Speaker 1 asking for help. But it begins with making sure that families dealing with this situation start, as you said earlier, start to talk about it.
Yeah. Because you can't.

Speaker 1 get help from something that you're hiding. No.
And so, and it's uncomfortable. Like the companionship thing is a very prevalent theme and comes up with a lot of people, as you would imagine.

Speaker 1 It is in many ways like the most awkward element of it.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 my grandmother was in a home, and my grandfather was in the same home. And she had like a boyfriend who I think wasn't real, but she would talk about him all the time.

Speaker 1 He lived in California. She was in Vancouver.
She always wanted to go visit him in California.

Speaker 1 Was there a reason she wanted to have a midnight leave, by the way? Okay. Yeah, they were just very old.
She was trying to get a job. She was a daughter.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 I think she was trying to make a joke.

Speaker 2 She went on the greatest date.

Speaker 1 Oh, she would talk about it all the time. She would say dirty things.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 it was wild.

Speaker 1 She was a funny lady. But it happens a lot.
And I mean, or it goes the other way, like with Lauren's father, if I may.

Speaker 1 Like, you know, Lauren's mother was very advanced in her early onset, but also was... very much alive.

Speaker 1 But he was very lonely. And his wife, as he knew her, was no longer there.
And the companionship he wanted and all that was no longer there. And so we implored him to try to start dating.

Speaker 1 Like, and, and that is like also, like, again, it's such an awkward thing to preach, and it's an awkward situation to enter into with other women as you're, as he's on J Date,

Speaker 1 trying to meet other women. And, and, and I remember there was a few, because it's like he would say he was married in the application.
Well, I helped him, I helped him create a

Speaker 1 work on the program. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 You need an asterisk there.

Speaker 2 I think it was at the end. And it was something like, and reach out if you don't mind that my wife lives next door.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It was like, yeah.

Speaker 2 And we explained the situation. And yeah.
And, you know, he went out with a few women at first that, you know, he has some funny stories that I guess I won't share.

Speaker 1 But oh,

Speaker 2 there was a woman who picked him up and drove him. And then when they pulled into the parking spot, she pulled out her handicap sticker.
And he was like, oh, I didn't.

Speaker 2 And she was like, oh, it was my, my, my, my deceased husband's sticker. and I still use it.
It's fine.

Speaker 1 And I got some benefits.

Speaker 1 You don't like that.

Speaker 2 There was no second date.

Speaker 3 Hey, everyone. Just want to let you know, I'm back out here in LA and I'm having a wonderful time, especially since I'm staying at an Airbnb.
I'm staying in one in West Hollywood and it is fabulous.

Speaker 3 The check-in was easy. The hosts were great.
They left us some nice gifts.

Speaker 3 Coincidentally, I happen to be out here when my daughter's out here, and she was staying on her own, away from her father, checked in to a hotel until she found out she couldn't check in.

Speaker 3 So she came out and hung out with me in West Hollywood at my Airbnb. And let me tell you, when she saw it, I think she had second thoughts.
So we got to hang out a little bit and we did a tour.

Speaker 3 And it's a three-bedroom place. It's got a laundry, it's got a pool, it's got so, so many nice amenities.

Speaker 3 And I told my daughter, I said, hey, listen, I know dad square, but you can come stay with me for a couple of nights. I'm going to be here till Friday.
And she's like, no, I'll take,

Speaker 3 she had her own work stuff and her business stuff. And I get it.
I used to be a hotel guy myself. But lo and behold, guess what happened?

Speaker 3 Just this morning, my daughter called me and said, hey, dad, do you mind if I come over and do some laundry?

Speaker 1 I said, of course.

Speaker 3 And she came over and we got to do, she did her laundry. We got to have coffee together, breakfast.
It was fantastic. The next time I come to LA

Speaker 3 or practically anywhere I go nowadays, I'm going to book an Airbnb because I can tell you, it is so much nicer than staying at a hotel. And I just love the privacy.
I love the room. And

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Speaker 3 This is a really interesting point that you bring up here because

Speaker 3 for Nick,

Speaker 3 he's seeing exactly what you folks saw.

Speaker 3 How can we help him? uh help his dad because i think i mean hilarity for charity yeah what you've been through, you guys are right at the point where you can help Nick today.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's, I don't know Nick's relationship with his dad, but I think some very blunt, honest conversations were

Speaker 1 necessary, painful, but necessary, and actually really moved things in a better direction. Yeah.
Like in our family. Definitely.

Speaker 2 Yeah. No, and there was, I mean, I remember that my dad and I certainly, you know, it wasn't all, you know, sunshine and rainbows every moment of this, no doubt.

Speaker 2 and you know certainly there was conflict and there was one moment where we had deep conflict and i was like can you meet me at my therapist

Speaker 2 and we had a joint session where we talked through everything

Speaker 2 and that was really helpful to

Speaker 2 take time to listen to him and for him to take time to listen to me and i think that you know like as

Speaker 2 the child you have this sort of like ownership right over your parents it's like well it's like my mom and it's my dad but it's like but it was his partner

Speaker 2 and his spouse who was with him for,

Speaker 2 you know, over 40 years.

Speaker 1 Well, and you, you have the vision of what your life, how's it going to end? Of course.

Speaker 2 My parents had, you know, my, my dad worked. He was the manager of a manufacturing plant.
My mom taught elementary school.

Speaker 2 My parents were those people who were saving for this great retirement to travel, to, you know, to live that moment. And they, they didn't get it.

Speaker 1 All those sacrifices sacrifices and, you know.

Speaker 2 And there's a lot of anger, you know, a lot of anger.

Speaker 2 But to go back to what I said a few minutes ago, you have to have acceptance. And that is, it is hard.
I'm not saying it's easy, but just to sort of remember where you are.

Speaker 2 So I think that for Nick, I would say for Nick and his dad, to join a support group,

Speaker 2 to go on our website and fill out the form. And they won't be in the same group because they're not in the same boat.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 2 And to

Speaker 2 talk to other people who are in it in this moment, honestly, just being seen helps lower the stress. It just does.
And so that's the first thing I would say.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And as far as like the specifics of like, his,

Speaker 1 you know, Nick's mother thinks she has a new boyfriend. Like, I mean, that would tell me.

Speaker 1 probably that her dementia has progressed to a point where like she's not the same she's not the same person and and yeah and her father or his father should again i mean should it's easier said than done it would probably behoove him to start accepting that and not trying to put her back into the box she used to be in but rather make the hard you know uh choice to accept that it is different now and and it won't ever be the same and and and that you know the romantic relationship they once had and that companionship is is just not there in in the way it used to be.

Speaker 1 And he can lament it and he could be resentful towards her and try to stop her from being around this guy who probably makes her happy.

Speaker 1 Or he could or he could accept it and maybe do things for himself that that that that offered him some sort of companionship or allowed him to move in a new direction rather than looking kind of backwards at what what once was you know well it's a it's a loss yeah it's a huge loss and you know that you face every day.

Speaker 1 Every day.

Speaker 1 And it's, you know, harder than actual death because, you know, the person's sitting right in front of you. Right there every day, you know, reminding you, I'm here, but it's still a loss.

Speaker 1 I'm just curious in your therapy support groups. Is there a way to talk about that, you know, with Nick's dad?

Speaker 1 Does it help to equate it to a death that, you know, if she were actually physically gone, he would, you know, he would, he would be able to give himself the permission to move on with life and to, you know,

Speaker 1 take the steps to keep living himself. Yeah.
But I don't know if that's helpful.

Speaker 2 I mean, I think you just said such a key term, which is giving yourself permission.

Speaker 2 I think that caregivers, especially when they're caring for their spouse and their parent, these people who are the key influencers in their lives, it is so hard to put yourself first,

Speaker 2 but you have to. You have to know that that person loves you so much that they would want you to be taking care of yourself, themselves physically and mentally.

Speaker 2 And, you know, and Nick's dad is in such,

Speaker 2 such a brutal position.

Speaker 2 You know, and every day to have that anticipatory grief, which is, you know, woof, so, so rough.

Speaker 2 And to see this woman who he shared his life with and created a family with be different is, it is nearly impossible to accept that.

Speaker 2 but you know you have to a lot of caregiving techniques stem from from improv from from the simple when you learn improv the first thing they teach you is yes and you know when someone presents an idea you don't shut it down you say yes and that and so when nick's mom introduces her boyfriend and you want to put your head against the wall

Speaker 2 you have to take a breath and be like yes that's your boyfriend and also here's your husband

Speaker 2 and and we can all sit together and why don't we all have tea together? And, you know,

Speaker 2 it's this huge job to accept.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the word acceptance strikes me. A part of this is the acceptance can lead to really dealing with the grief and the loss.
And then maybe for Nick, there's a chance to find the laughter in it.

Speaker 1 You know? Well, it sounds like him and his wife are having. issues as well.

Speaker 3 I'm glad you said that, Seth, because I wanted to bring that up because, so Nick's helping his dad.

Speaker 3 He's helping his mom, and he's married and got kids, and they're sort of going by the wayside. And

Speaker 3 I'm looking at the two of you and how you deal with it with humor and with pragmatism. And then you start this foundation.
Nick doesn't have that.

Speaker 3 Any ideas for Nick that we can leave him with?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Nick should go to therapy if he's not already going to therapy.
I think that, honestly, like that was, I mean, we were very young when all this started. We just started dating.

Speaker 1 We were both in our early 20s, basically.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 my whole family are social workers, essentially. My mother's a social worker.
My sister is a social worker. I have my, one of my half-brothers is a social worker.

Speaker 1 So I have a, I come from a family steeped in

Speaker 1 talking about your feelings. And my family can't stop talking about that feeling.
No, they cannot.

Speaker 1 As much as you would wish, they are incapable of that. I just knew I was completely incapable of dealing with this.
And I was just like, this is like a professional level of grief.

Speaker 1 You are, and, and something that you need to like have gone to school to understand how to navigate this kind of thing. And, and that was very helpful.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Seth was the one that was like, I love you. I'm happy to, you know, hold you while you cry, but you need a professional.

Speaker 1 And I did.

Speaker 2 I really did. And, and it really helped.

Speaker 2 And I think that like having that type of person who has studied and knows how to to navigate grief,

Speaker 2 a professional.

Speaker 1 And they can go together.

Speaker 1 And like, we've talked, like, just because I think there's like a stigma around like couples therapy, it means there's like a problem in your marriage or relationship or something, but like we've gone and talked to therapists together just about how to communicate about this stuff and how we can help each other and, and, and make each other's experience with it better, you know, and I think that has been very helpful.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I would also add that Nick and his dad have put his mom in a very safe situation where she feels comfortable enough to make a friend and

Speaker 2 find some happiness to herself. And so Nick should give himself the permission

Speaker 2 to let his mom be there

Speaker 2 and to go to his family and to not worry and not need to physically be there every day for she is cared for. It sounds like she is well looked after.

Speaker 2 And so therefore he should take that time and not feel guilt to spend time with his own family. Cause I think that that's the thing.

Speaker 1 I mean, you was, I mean, there was a moment where it was just like, do I see her every day? Is it bad if I don't see her every day? Is it, can I take a few days off? Is it okay?

Speaker 1 Is it, it's for sure not the most fun thing to go do?

Speaker 2 So like when we were entering like year six, since my mom had walked or talked or spoken or cared for herself in any way, and that is exhausting. And it got to the point where I was like,

Speaker 2 I can't go every day. I can't go see her every day.
And, and she wouldn't want me to. That's right.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I need to protect myself a little bit. And I think that Nick needs to honestly just be a little more selfish.

Speaker 1 Well, he's got to protect his kids. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 You know, I mean, I shared that, you know, when mom was going through it, I hadn't shared with anybody because I was young when she was taking care of our elderly great aunt and uncle.

Speaker 1 I was in grammar school, you know, just sort of prime time. And my mother was absent.

Speaker 1 And I resented it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I didn't resent her, but I resented this situation

Speaker 1 because, you know, here I was and maybe because Craig was a little older and in high school, probably at the time. You know, you driving, yeah, sort of independent.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it, it, it upturned our household. Yeah.
So I shared that because for Nick. He's got to think about his future, his family's future, the toll this is taking on his his child.

Speaker 1 And that's not the example of aging

Speaker 1 that we want to put out there.

Speaker 2 No, it's not. And again, go back to like, I imagine it's not what his mother would want.
Right, right, right.

Speaker 2 Like, I think that is such a huge thing that caregivers become so selfless that they forget that they are humans who are alive and living

Speaker 2 and need to. experience joy as well.

Speaker 2 And it isn't just about being a caregiver 24-7 because that will not help his mother also.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But I think it's really like when you're miserable, it's it's sometimes easier to just be miserable.
Like, and I think people, it's hard to pull yourself out of it sometimes.

Speaker 1 And if he's just really sad because his mother's sick and he's just in it and his dad is unhappy and like it's almost easier at times to hand yourself over to like the the the miserable side of things than to try to be around your kids and wife and and and act like a happy functional person, you know?

Speaker 1 Um, and I think that's something that,

Speaker 1 again, therapy can help a lot and prioritizing your relationship and making sure that, you know, you are communicating with your wife and you're talking about all this stuff and taking time.

Speaker 1 I mean, time is the thing that you can do.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just scheduling time for the things you love or just little things that help you.

Speaker 2 Like, my, my, neither of my parents were big drinkers, but I remember like, you know, my dad was going through it and he'd be like, I got maybe pour myself a drink tonight. And I was like, have two.

Speaker 1 Like, I remember one time, short of illegal drugs, do whatever you want to over.

Speaker 1 And if you want some illegal drugs, you can help you.

Speaker 1 And I've got this.

Speaker 1 I've got this nice ceramic

Speaker 1 bong and

Speaker 1 you make all that stuff.

Speaker 1 But yeah,

Speaker 1 I think it's, I was so happy on days when Lauren. made the choice that she didn't have to go see her mother.
Because I was like, that's her

Speaker 1 prioritizing her own mental health. And she's not abandoning her mother.
She sees them all the time. We move them, you know, six blocks away from where we live.
They were very close.

Speaker 1 But those days where I could just see, she was like, I don't need to do this today. And I'm going to actually maybe try to enjoy myself.

Speaker 1 Well, and if you talk about brain health, your brain health, you know, when there is a

Speaker 1 genetic, you know, predisposition,

Speaker 1 it becomes increasingly more important for the family members of people with Alzheimer's to focus on self-care for their longevity. Oh, yeah.
So depression is not good for the brain.

Speaker 1 Depression and sleeplessness and

Speaker 1 being distraught and upset, you know, not taking the time to get the sleep blanket and the cold sheets and the meditation and all of it. It's just the irony of this disease that, you know,

Speaker 1 you may be closely linked to it because of the genetic DNA, but that means that you can't lose yourself

Speaker 1 in the caretaking because you need to focus because there is prevention. Totally.
Totally things you can do. That is the hope, right?

Speaker 2 Like someone is diagnosed and like, unfortunately, like there is still really nothing that will stop, prevent, or cure this disease

Speaker 2 other than living a brain-healthy lifestyle may prevent it, may delay it. Four out of 10 cases might be delayed or prevented.
That's a lot. That's a lot.

Speaker 2 And so, you know, and I spent a lot of years, a lot of time with anger and depression. And don't get me wrong, I still do.
I'm a human.

Speaker 2 But at the same time, I have to remember, like, I have to think of myself and the things that are going to keep me healthy because we need to do that in order to hopefully grow old, which is the goal.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 3 So that's terrific segue here because

Speaker 3 we'd like to give Nick something, some tips that would make the sort of

Speaker 3 give him the power to be the best version of himself and his family. And I've just jotted down a few things you all talked about.

Speaker 2 What's on the list?

Speaker 1 So what do we say? The first one is

Speaker 3 meet them where they're at.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Slash acceptance.

Speaker 1 Don't yell at you. Don't try to convince your mom she doesn't have a new boyfriend.

Speaker 1 In her head, she does. Now you got two dads for a little while.

Speaker 3 And what I love about this is you,

Speaker 3 we always say meet people where they're at, except when.

Speaker 1 They're sick. Yeah.

Speaker 3 You know, we're always trying to fix it.

Speaker 1 So I love that.

Speaker 3 The second one I have here is care for yourself

Speaker 3 for the caregiver. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 Especially like if his mother is in a home, they're feeding her, the people watching her. Like there's, there's not much you need to be doing.

Speaker 2 There were times that I literally would stop and I would see my mom for five minutes.

Speaker 2 I'd walk in, I'd kiss her on the head, I'd say a thing or two, I'd squeeze her hand, and then I left because that was all I could take. And that felt like enough to remind her, she is loved.

Speaker 2 I feel like we're together. And in a way, like Nick could make a schedule, you know, as Seth said, like, she is cared for.
He doesn't have to go every day. He doesn't have to go five times a week.

Speaker 2 He could go twice a week, once a week, whatever works, so that he is also there to show up for his family.

Speaker 3 And the next one I have here is seek helpful resources, turn to the professionals. And that goes with the next one:

Speaker 3 the family therapy, joining a support group. I think that's all one big category.

Speaker 2 Definitely. And we at HFC can help point you in the right direction.

Speaker 2 There are a lot of services out there that are there to help people navigate through this. You really don't have to do it alone.
It is such an isolating thing to care for a loved one with dementia,

Speaker 2 but it doesn't have to be.

Speaker 3 And one last thing, which you both hit on, that we experience with our mom is what would your mom want?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And that's something that we we can all do for our family members. It doesn't have to just be children, but the people who are going to be here after we're gone.
Let them know what you want.

Speaker 1 It takes the pressure off. Let's talk about death.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We're such a youth-obsessed culture. Like ignoring death doesn't do anyone any favors.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 And if Nick, again, like, yeah, a good thing for Nick to think is if he has the choice between going and visiting his mom and spending time with his wife, asking himself, what would my mom want me to do in this situation?

Speaker 1 And as he said, she thinks he's an asshole. Exactly.
She doesn't want to see him anyway.

Speaker 1 Hang out with your wife.

Speaker 1 Who hopefully doesn't also think you're an asshole? Don't let it get to that point.

Speaker 1 She should think you're an asshole, Nick. Exactly.
Maybe we think you're wonderful. Yes.

Speaker 2 So take your wife out.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Take your wife out

Speaker 1 on the town in Miami.

Speaker 1 Lots of stuff to do there. Lots of good restaurants.

Speaker 1 Well, you guys are doing some great work. And, you know, thank you for sharing.
Thank you for the investment that you're making.

Speaker 1 Thank you for your vulnerability and your honesty

Speaker 1 because that's also, you know, normalizing the issue as much as it is not normal and will never feel normal. But talking about it and letting people know that they're not alone.

Speaker 1 And again, you know, I just want to say, yeah, let's not. be afraid of humor in the midst of this.
I mean, absolutely. It gets our family.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, we found that that was like, at first, we were very uncomfortable with the combination of comedy and Alzheimer's, honestly.
And it felt very inorganic.

Speaker 1 And then, yeah, we found that people coming and telling their stories and

Speaker 1 keeping a humorous perspective amidst all this is like. so cathartic and helpful.
And people like to laugh and can shift gears very easily and can contain both of those things at once. And so, yeah,

Speaker 1 humor is helpful. I don't know if it's the best medicine, but it's a pretty good one.

Speaker 1 I tell you what.

Speaker 3 Thank you guys for being here.

Speaker 1 This has been great. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Good luck with everything. Yeah, we'll help you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, be well. Be well.