You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig

A lot of people have questions they want to know, especially when they see somebody of note with a platform who, you know, by every measure looks successful. The first question is how? I think this podcast, first and foremost, gives us an opportunity to hear from folks.
You know, we're going to be taking, you know, questions from listeners who are going through some things and just need a little advice. They want to hear from people in conversations.
And folks are looking for a place where they can just, they can hear stories, you know? I mean, what I realize is like, by sharing some of these stories, you know, it always taps into something from somebody else. People, you know, they want to hear some honest kind of conversation about how people are working it through.
And we don't have all the answers, you know. I mean, this show isn't about us being experts at anything other than the lives that we've lived.
But what we do have are a lot of

opinions. Hence the name, In My Opinion, IMO.
This episode is brought to you by Rivian and Pine Salt. Well, I'm Craig Robinson, and you all know my sister, Michelle Obama, and we're doing this podcast together, and it's really exciting to be working with you on this project.
You know, some people react like, hmm, you're doing a podcast with your brother? Why would you do that? I know, really. But our dynamic is so, in my view, unique.
I think there are plenty of siblings who have great relationships. But I think when we think back to where that came from, I think about just the physical closeness that we had.
I mean, we weren't wealthy. Right.
And dad was working class. We lived in the same apartment

our whole lives and had to grow into that. And as a result, you and me, we were physically close growing up.
Remember when we used to share a bedroom? Of course. That was our life growing up.
We shared the same room until you went to high school, right? That's right. Well, let's first just recall how small the apartment we lived in.
It seemed like it was huge, but it was essentially two bedrooms, right? No, it was one bedroom. Well, that little offshoot bedroom that mom and dad stayed in, you would consider that a bedroom.

But that was the only bedroom.

The room we were in was actually the living room.

And the living room, what we called the living room, was actually the dining room.

Huh, okay.

All right, so that's how small it was.

That's how small it was, yes.

We had to turn it into something else.

But the biggest room was always ours. Yes.
And we were little, little, like baby littles. Like five and three.
The twin beds were head to head with like an end table in between. And we had matching spreads.
That mom made. That mom made.
She sewed them. Big, bold stripes.
And the twin beds were up against the wall.

And she had the concept of creating these little padding boards.

Yes.

She was so crafty, so she created these foam pads that she hung along the side to make them decorative,

but to also provide us with a little cushion against the wall, which we thought was so cool.

I remember you had a bed guard because you were so little. Yeah, I sort of remember that, yeah.
You still probably should have been in a crib. Maybe so, but yeah, I do remember.
You remember that? You guys would tell me I'd fall out of bed, start crying, get put back in the bed, and I wouldn't remember anything about it. You wouldn't remember any of it.
Everybody else would be be wide awake and you'd be snoring. I didn't snore.
Now you're making stuff. But then from there, from there, we went to, and I am trying to remember what age, when our grandfather, Southside, built us this tea.
Partition wall. Partition wall.
So then we had our own bedrooms in that same room. Yeah, yeah.
So it went from a one room, one big room into three small rooms. Yeah.
Your bedroom was on the right. Mine was on the left.
And then we had a common area in the front where mom, once again, crafty, built us desks on each side where we could do our

homework. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, that was some poverty crafting, right? That's like Martha Stewart on a budget.
But that wall was just, we were still sleeping head to head, but just on the other side of a wall. And it was special to me because I feel like that's where our real relationship began because it's like we would talk for hours.
We'd go to bed, we're supposed to be asleep, and we'd stay up all night just talking through that little partition. We thought it was all night, but because we had to go to bed at 7.30, it was probably only 8.30.
But we talked till about 10 o'clock and mom would finally come in there. If you all don't go to bed, go to sleep.
But it was really sweet because I remember being able to talk to you even at that young age about anything, what happened during the day, the little drama on the outside world. And just laughing all night long about nothing, making up silly games.
It started that young. Well, what's really ironic is that we were talking about how small our place was.
Growing up our house, yeah. And then look where we're doing this taping in this big, beautiful Airbnb.
Got a little more room here. I know, who would have thought we'd be able to be in a snazzy place like this? You know, this podcast is going to be about you and I trying to let people in on some of the lessons that we learned as kids and growing up and, you know, from mom and dad, but also from different teachers and coaches and things we've learned along the way.
And let me ask you this. What is one of the lessons that you learned from mom and dad that really sticks out to you? Well, when I think about what we're talking about now, our relationship as brother and sister, why we're so excited about doing this podcast, not because we love to talk and we got lots of opinions, but especially since mom passed, this is a joint project that you and me have.
And I think it's the first time we've actually worked together and helping people to understand where does that foundation come from, where you and I feel so comfortable with each other and we have our whole lives where we can not only work together, but share what has helped to make us close. I think about not just our bedroom space in that little bitty first apartment on Euclid Avenue, but I think about the kitchen table because the kitchen was the other gathering place.
And in our house, we as young people with our parents, what they did for us was they invited us to sit with them at the table and talk. And I think very early on, because our parents had the wisdom to understand how wise kids could be and how important their voices were and how much fun it was to not just have kids just seen and not heard.
In our household, our parents wanted to not just see us, but they wanted to hear us. They wanted to hear our ideas.
They wanted to hear our opinions. I think that our parents offered us both the first table where we gained confidence in our voices, where we felt like who we were, what we thought, how we felt was important.
And not because it was important to the rest of the world, but it was important to them. And I think that's a piece of wisdom in terms of parenting that I try to share, I try to implement in my own life.
But our parents wanted to hear from us.

They loved our thoughts. I try to implement in my own life.
But our parents wanted to hear from us.

They loved our thoughts and ideas. And they encouraged us to say what was on our mind, do it respectfully for sure.
But a lot of kids don't grow up like that. They sure don't.
And, you know, I'm always asked how mom and dad came to be the type of parents that they were that would be the type to let their kids come into the kitchen table and share in the conversation rather than being lectured to.

And I always remember mom always, when we would always ask mom, how do you know something? She was like, well, I don't know everything. I don't know what to tell you.
Yeah, yeah. She was never afraid to tell us when she wasn't sure.
When she wasn't sure. And she said, let me think about it and get back to you.
And that was one of the most powerful things as a parent. Like you don't, you're not supposed to know everything.

You don't have to know everything.

And it's better to say you don't know than to make up something or lie or get yourself caught in a position where your kids come back to you and say, you gave me bad advice. Mm-hmm.

And a lot of parents think that a part of being the parent is to be the one with all the knowledge, with all the answers. And because our parents didn't do that, it also gave us permission and taught us that in life, you are in a learning process all the time.
All the time. And it's okay to be wrong.
And it's okay to stumble. Mom and dad were also very good talking to us, not just about their successes, but about their failures, what they did wrong, what they got wrong in life.
And I see that time and time again, parents feel like they need a shield of all knowingness in order for their kids to respect them or in order to keep them safe. It's like, let me not share with you how I messed up a few times.
And I never felt the pressure of their judgment or their expectation in our lives. And it's funny you say that because this reminds me of my favorite lesson from them.
When you talk about there's never any judgment, the only time mom and dad would really be upset with us is if we said, well, so-and-so said I should be doing this. And how about that word so-and-so? That was a Robinson term.
Who are these so-and-so? So-and-so said, I should be doing this. And how about that word, so-and-so?

That was a Robinson term.

Who are these so-and-so?

Who's so-and-so?

Yeah, it's just-

So-and-so?

Is that a name?

So-and-so was always a little trifling.

That's all I remember about so-and-so.

So-and-so was trouble.

If you hung out with so-and-so, you were going to get in trouble.

That's the only way you were going to ruin your life is following him behind so-and-so. And mom would be so, meet so-and-so.
Well, but my point is, if you ever came in the house and said one of your friends, somebody outside of the family said, you should do something or you should be something or how about let's try this and you followed in behind them. And that was your rationale.
That is when you caught it. Yeah.
Yeah. Not thinking for yourself.
Not thinking for yourself and having enough confidence in your decision making process to make decisions for yourself and not because somebody wanted you to. Well, I wanted to wear bell-bottom jeans because everybody else is wearing them.
That was the wrong answer. That was the way to not get your bell-bottom jeans.
If you could come up with a reason why you wanted them, then you'd have some bell-bottom jeans. But if you said, I'm not doing this because of somebody out in the streets, as dad would say.
You out here listening to these guys?

So-and-so out in the streets.

So-and-so in the streets.

Forget it.

Well, you also make me think that another thing that I think mom and dad was so wise about

was because in order for them to push us to use our own judgment,

they empowered us to make decisions and be responsible very early in life. And that meant think for yourself.
But in order to do that, they had to sort of hand us our lives pretty young. And I'm not saying that they went off to work and left us alone, but I've said this before, very early on, mom was like, you're going to kindergarten now.
Here's an alarm clock. Here's how to set it.
Set it, get yourself up. Because as she said, you're going to school for you, not for me.
She's like, I had my education and I don't believe that if you care about yours, that you need your mom to be waking you up every morning. So from the time we started kindergarten, you know, now she was up.
It wasn't like she was sleeping in. She was just listening to hear us.
Get ourselves up. Get ourselves up, start getting dressed.
When we got a little older, even start our own breakfast. And in the era of helicopter parenting, where people are waking up their kids, even calling them from college, mom and dad were the opposite of that.
And in doing so, they were telling us, I trust you, even at five or seven, you have the capability of taking care of yourself. And you know I love you, but I got to get you ready for the life you're going to have as an adult.
And that means that if you can't even wake yourself up and get yourself to kindergarten, that's how mom and dad would think about it.'s like So they showed us that we were capable And guess what happened We rose to that expectation It was like I Probably to this day I don't do late Oh Not in the Robinson household You know We don't do On time as late Early as on time As early as on time That's Frasier Robinson household. You know, we don't do- On time as late? Early as on time.
Early as on time. That's Frazier Robinson.
And this is a guy who was, you know, for him to be on time, he had to prepare because it was hard for him to get around and get dressed. Our dad had a disability, yeah.
The fact that he had a disability didn't make him have an excuse for anything, particularly being late. So much so, mom used to be mad at him because he would get ready so early.
He'd keep pushing the time of departure for a family outing. It's like, well, we're going to leave at three.
And he's sitting there at two going, well, where is everybody? And it's like, you said three. And I would get ready earlier just to keep them company.
Well, Barack, he had to adjust to what on time was for me. Because he was on that island time.
Well, but I've got this husband who's like, when it's time to leave, it's three o'clock, he's getting up and going to the bathroom. And I was like, dude, dude, like three o'clock departure means you've done all that.
You know, it's like, don't start looking for your glasses, you know, at the three o'clock departure. But he's improved over 30 years of marriage.
But that was a, you know, that was a, you must adjust. And Malia and Sasha, if they're doing anything with me, they are early.
Right. So they've learned how to snap to it.
But that was, you know, those kind of lessons from parents, when you think you're helping your kid, you know, because you're worried about them failing, you don't want them to be late. You don't want them to get a not so great grade on their project that you start stepping in and facilitating way more and not letting kids hit bumps.
You're delaying their, I think, their ability to understand that their lives are theirs. And you also are sending them a subliminal message that they're not capable.
That they're not good enough. Right.
Yeah. Right.
Right. Mom and dad didn't do that to us.
No. But I started thinking too, I was just thinking of another story.
We're flip-flopping around. But when I think about our relationship, the other thing that I liked and I try to do with my kids is like, we were close.

We were close physically, emotionally, all of that, but we were not codependent.

Right. And we weren't allowed to be.
Right. Like, because you were a nurturer, you were a natural on your own, a worrier, a guardian.
You took on just temperamentally extra worries and responsibilities. That's right.
Mom understood that she couldn't in any way imply to you that you were responsible for me. Because you would have taken that on and gone off the deep end with it.
Right. I would have been your caretaker rather than your brother.
In grammar school. And I think that's another thing sometimes parents do with siblings.
You make one responsible for the other. Now you've got a kid trying to be a parent.
And that leads to nothing but resentment on both parts. If you were trying to parent me, that would have replaced the special relationship that is my brother, which is something very different.
I didn't need a father. I didn't need a mother.
I needed a big brother. And so you were fully free to be that for me.
And I wasn't your burden. Well, you know, another story I think about is how mom and dad trained us to work hard.
You remember the chores? Oh, yeah. We had chores very early on.
Very early on. That's another thing, I think.
One of the best things that our parents did for us is- Real work. Real work.
Real work around the house. And what I mean by real work is I had, my chores were to clean the bathroom.
I cleaned the bathroom. What are you talking about? We alternated.
We alternated weeks. Okay.
Because I loved cleaning the bathroom. And I didn't, but I had to do it.
Mom wanted us both to know how to have a clean bathroom. But my every weekend job was cleaning those stairs.
Oh, that's right. Yeah.
We had 14 stairs. Notice I remember how many there were.
Yeah, you had to. That went from our apartment down to our great aunt Robbie's apartment.
And this is what I remember about Saturday morning. You remember that tin pot that we used to have? We had a tin pot, a pot now that used to be on the stove, which was now used for cleaning.
And you put a little soap, dish soap in it. And then you put pine salt in it.
Not like pine salt. And there was nothing like that smell.
Like when you came home from school and mom had been mopping and you could smell the pine salt. It was usually Monday because she had laundry on Monday.
You come home from school and it smells like new house. And I have to say that I still to this day, when I'm mopping, if we don't have that pine oil smell.
That's it. That's it, isn't it? That's it.
And here we are in adulthood, and they're a partner of ours on this podcast. You know, an appropriate partner.
How about it? So when you get a chance out there, visit pinesol.com and find out where you can shop for your Pine Salt. This episode is brought to you by Rivian and their fully electric, full-sized SUVs and pickups that are designed for all of life's adventures.
The folks at Rivian lent me an R1S to drive around while I'm here in LA, and it has been awesome. You know, I'm 6'6", and there is plenty of leg room and head room for a guy like me.
In addition, there's also great cargo space for my luggage, so learn more right now at rivian.com. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Theraflu as a product that was created to provide effective and comforting relief when you're fighting the flu or a cold, Theraflu firmly believes that the ability to rest and recover when sick should be a right, not a privilege.
You know, I think back to the time when my dad was working for the city of Chicago as a stationary fireman,

and it seemed to us that he never missed work and he never got sick. But what we realized is that my dad didn't want to take his paid sick time because he wasn't sure if he would keep his job by doing that.
And my sister and I realized that my dad would be sick, but he just thugged through it. It was a difficult thing for him to deal with then.
And unfortunately, so many Americans still face this pressure today. 27 million Americans still lack paid sick time, which causes them to have to choose between losing a day's pay and getting the proper rest they need in order to get better.
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It's been making a big impact and Theraflu is committed to keeping the fight going, as

everyone deserves the right to rest and recover.

Learn more or help someone apply for the fund at theraflu.com slash right to recover. I'm so happy that we're doing this together.
And this show in and of itself is just bringing me down memory lane. But let's talk about some times when we had to actually, since you were talking about looking out for each other, when we had to lean on each other for advice.
And I'll start because I remember talking to you before I talked to mom about going into coaching. Oh, yeah, that's right.
And I want to tell you a story about when I leaned on you, and I want to tell a story about when I didn't lean on you. When I leaned on you, I was, well, I should tell the story chronologically.
Because when I didn't lean on you happened before I leaned on you just in this example was when I was going through my first my first divorce my only divorce and I didn't tell you about it yeah and the reason I didn't tell my sister about it or my mom or anybody close to me or the just the challenges you guys were facing was because I know my sister and I know my sister about it or my mom or anybody close to me. Or just the challenges you guys were facing.
Were facing was because I know my sister and I said, if I tell her about this, she's never going to get over it. And if we ever got back together, it wasn't going to be good for my first wife.
So I was trying to hold off telling everybody. But the first person I did tell was Mish.
And she was so mad that I hadn't told her and so disappointed that I vowed that I would never not tell her, hold anything from you. Because I had never done that ever and haven't done it since.
Well, because it was also interesting because I could see that something was going on, that there was a disconnect because we were close. I mean, we had our periods in life where we would come together, be apart, life would bring us together.
We wound up going to the same college. We didn't go to the same high school because you went to an all boys school and I went to a magnet high school.
And Whitney Young wasn't open. It wasn't, you probably would have gone, but it was a brand new school.
Brand new. And because you were a student athlete, you needed a good solid basketball program and they hadn't developed it at Whitney Young.
So we weren't in the same high school. And that was a good thing because we had times in our lives when we were in the same school, sort of in the same orbit, and then we weren't.
And then I followed you to Princeton, where you were two years ahead of me and big man on campus there too because he was all Ivy on the basketball team and you know, where you were two years ahead of me and big man on campus there too, because he was all Ivy on the basketball team and, you know, all this sort of stuff. So everybody knew Craig.
I was always Craig Robinson's little sister. That, you know, I'm really enjoying the payback of Craig Robinson now being Michelle Obama's brother.
Boy, times have changed. But I grew up as Craig's little sister.
It's like, oh, you Craig's little sister. I was like, yeah, yeah.
But I do other things too. It's more fun being Michelle Obama's big brother.
Much more fun. But even in those moments when we were in the same orbit, we were close, but again, in the same way, not overly dependent.
We had our own friends. We had, you know, you know, if I was dating somebody, because that was the other thing, dating like big men on campus in college, I think you scared off a lot of potential.
You would have had way more dates. You had way more dates once I graduated.
Yes, I did. I think people didn't want to piss off Craig.
And it wasn't like I was trying to mark any territory or anything. It was just, you know, it's just walk around, people get nervous.
And then you graduate, then you go off and you play basketball. You have a whole nother experience.
You moved to Manchester, England and play in Europe for a couple of years. And so you're coming and going, and then you get married.
And I was very close with you and your first wife. We were not inseparable, but it was a close family.
We did things together. And then Avery was born, and we were always right there.
We were very tight knit family.

And then I met Barack and, you know, then we got married and we bought a condo right down the street from your condo. Like three buildings down.
Three buildings down in Hyde Park in Chicago. So that was a period when we were around each other a lot.
And when you see your brother and you think his or your sibling or somebody you care about and you think everything is good, and you're rooting for them, and then you learn that things are falling apart because you think, I thought I saw some things that were red flags, but I would always be like, how you doing? And your reply would be, we're great. We're good.
Fine. Fine.
And after that, once it all unraveled, I said, your definition of fine. I was like, don't ever tell me that you're good because I'm not going to trust that.
Because it would have been like, even though you think I wouldn't have been able to handle it, I would have gotten myself together to give you sound advice and be able to stay neutral. But I felt like the dude I depend on the most who I could tell anything didn't feel like he could come to me when he was dealing with something really hard in his life, which is his marriage falling apart.
That was a mistake. That was a mistake.
And I've learned since then. But

I talk about you all the time to people because now that you're an icon, people are like,

what's your sister like? I was like, listen, this woman used to take care of me from the time

when all the way back to when you used to play the piano for me before games. Yes, people, before my high school basketball games, my elementary school sister would play the piano so I could take a nap.
And you'd play, even after I went to sleep, you kept playing, teaching me how to dance. Oh, yes.
You needed help. Before I would go to the prom.
Because he was on the court and he hadn't learned some basic moves. So it's like, dude, your first dance, you got to.
So we put on the record player and I gave you a couple moves that you are still doing to this day. I still do these moves to this day.
That's all you got. It's good good though.
You stay in the pocket. Stay in there.
But what I think about when I think about us relying on each other, when I made the move from corporate America to become a coach. And the reason that was such a big deal was, I was a bond trader, sales person in investment banking and finance and big time job, really good living.
And I was contemplating stopping that to go be an assistant coach on a basketball team. It's basically saying, I'm going to go from being a millionaire to working for nothing, which seemed to be our overall MO, both you and me.
But yeah, that was a big leap to walk away from a very secure, lucrative career and pursue something that you love. And you talked about how my love for teaching, I always thought I was going to be a teacher.
I never thought I would be a coach or an investment banker or even a basketball player. I thought I'd be a teacher or a cop or a fireman.
That was what we were exposed to. And you talked about how much you knew I loved teaching.
I loved helping kids. And then you threw out what dad would say.
Because dad had passed by then. He had passed by then.
And you said, he would say, if you could find something that you'd love to do, you're not working a day in your life. And that gave me the courage to go into my partners that I worked with and tell them, hey, I'm hanging

it up and I'm going to be a coach.

And everybody thought I was having a nervous breakdown because this was after the divorce

stuff.

It's like he's having a crisis.

Yeah, yeah.

But even in that, I don't think you realize that you gave me the courage to do the same thing eventually. Because watching you make some major changes in your life and walk away from what people said you were supposed to do, rather than looking internally and really figuring out who you were.

I was going through the same thing because I was working at a corporate law firm, making great money. You can imagine our parents, mom, working class people.
I mean, we were earning more than both of our parents' salaries combined starting out in our first, second years, you know, really making the most of this amazing education that our parents helped us acquire, doing what we were supposed to do, going to the best schools and getting the corporate jobs and owning the cars. I had a Saab, you had that red Porsche.
I mean, we were the Black successful people, and so were all the people that we were surrounded by. But no one told us that some of those pursuits could be soul-sucking.
Because, first of all, our parents didn't know. It's like, you're a lawyer, a corporate lawyer? That's great.
You're in finance, and that's what all the fat cats want to do. But it was interesting how both of us entered those careers, were successful, but something was missing.
And when I saw you make that leap with kids and alimony and all the responsibility, it made me stop and think about who I wanted to be and whether I was pursuing what I thought I was supposed to pursue or whether I was being true to what I cared about. And Barack came into the picture and he was, as I call a swerver, never really even thought about the need to pursue some high-powered career, even though he was Harvard educated, blah, blah, blah.
It was all about what were we giving back? What were we doing? So you helped me make that leap. And it's a scary leap to walk away with debt because we still have student loan debt and walk away from guaranteed money and basically start over in brand new careers.
But that's the beauty of having a big brother who's paving the way. Yeah.
And in more recent times, I mean, it feels like I can call and talk to you about anything.

I mean, you know, we talk about the kids. Now, see, I have the younger kids now.
Well, now you're on marriage number two. I'm on marriage number two, and I'm a charter member of the ODC, the old dad's club.
Although you look good. I do.
I do. I do.
But, you know, just being able to call you up and have an opportunity to gain from your wisdom. It's just really- Now that I got a little, huh? It's nice.
It's nice. Well, I couldn't have gotten through eight years in the White House without my big brother.

That's another sort of unusual aspect to our lives.

Our relationship was this whole, you know, being married to the president of the United States thing.

Yeah.

That none of us kind of banked on. I mean, we knew Barack was smart and, you know, ambitious.

But, you know, I think. But you talked me into supporting his run.
I did. And he was smart enough to know that he needed to come to you and sell you on the idea.
So tell folks, what did he say and what you said to me? Because I was definitely like, no way this is crazy. We've done enough crazy stuff.

That's right. That's right.
And everything happened so fast because Barack went from a state senator to a U.S. senator.
And next thing you know, people were saying, this guy should run for president. And you were like, uh-uh, no, not doing it.
you had grown up with Frazier Robinson.

You wanted your girls to have sort of a similar upbringing with a father who would come home from work and play catch and take them to the park and do all these things. And Barack came to me and he's like you know I can't convince your sister

to go along with this

and I'm like well go along

with what? And it's like I think I'm going to run

for president and I was like what?

I wouldn't go along with it

and I said to him I said

listen

what you have to do is

first

of all let me talk

to her

I don't know. So what you have to do is, first of all, let me talk to her.

You don't talk to her.

Let me talk to her.

No, it wasn't that. I said, if we can get mom on this, our mom, Marion Robinson, if we can get her on board for this,

which she was not on board for it,

we might have a chance of getting Misha on.

And then I said, let me talk to Misha.

And that's when I came and talked to you

and just gave you your advice

that you had given me back pretty much

about following your passion

and doing the things you love.

But I think the thing that pushed it over the top

Thank you. and that would be like a guy who is fighting to get to the NBA and he makes it and because the travel is messed up his wife says no I don't want you to do it and it just wouldn't be fair and I talked to you and mom at the same time and both of you sat there reasonably mad and said I was right.
And then I said to everybody in our family

that this is like not a, this is not just you all doing it. This means all of us are doing it because of the scrutiny you guys would be under the work you're going to have to do.
It just has, it's going to take a village to do this whole thing. And, and that was pretty much the discussion that we had that got this whole thing started.
And that meant that you put your money where your mouth was. I mean, over the course of the campaign, the mini campaigns, our time in the White House, I could count on you to be there when I needed you.
I mean, you campaigned with us. You campaigned for us.
You know, if anything got tight, if I was feeling a certain way, my team, especially Mel, my chief of staff, who's been with me forever, she knew who to call. She would, you know, she and she, Melissa loves you more than I do.
It's like a lot of times Melissa will be like, I meet Greg. And she'd call you.
And I'd tell

I'm a running. And it

was always a breath

of fresh air. I mean, there's just something

about having your

foundation in check.

You know, like being able

to touch base with home

in the middle of something hard

and scary and uncertain.

And you did

that. And did that for the girls.

Because

Thank you. in the middle of something hard and scary and uncertain.
And you did that and did that for the girls

because they needed their uncle and their cousins.

And I wanted them, Avery and Leslie,

sadly, Austin and Aaron was so young, poor things.

They were there, but they don't remember any of it.

They're like, why didn't we go to that White House? It's like, you were there. Dude, you were there.
You were just four. You know what? They remember the turkey pardoning.
That was the last thing. Every year, we'd have the turkey pardoning.
And that was the one thing that the girls would do at Barack, was to go stand next to him when he pardoned this turkey. And it was cute when they were little, but as they got older, you could see on their faces in the shots of just them thinking, just poke my eyes out.
Just right now, just get me out of here. I'm standing with my father telling these stupid jokes next to a turkey.
So by the time we got to the last year, the last turkey pardoning, they were done. They didn't want any parts of it.
They were just like, I'm out. I'm not going.
So in subs, Austin and Aaron, who were, how old were they at the time? Oh, shoot. Six and four, maybe? Perfect turkey pardoning age.
Like they were like, call me up. I'm in, coach.

I'm ready.

I'm ready to stand next to Uncle Barack.

And they loved his stupid jokes.

They laughed at his jokes.

He felt like a new man.

He's like, I got a new crew in.

They were amazed.

They were fascinated.

While their daughters were like, you are sad, dad.

You know, Austin and Erin came in.

So they remember that because

that was the last chance

when they started having memories.

Of course, nothing was better than having

Thanksgiving dinner at the White House.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we just

absolutely loved

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That's betterhelp.com slash IMO. You know, we started talking about this at the outset, why we're doing this show.
You know, post-White House and writing the books and doing book tours, you know, we just, you know, speaking at leadership conferences, things you do as a coach, you realize that what we have, even in our lack of resources, in our household growing up, we had people who would share their opinions, give us advice. We had mentors and we were used to mentoring and being mentored.
And I realized that a lot of people don't have that, you know. They don't have a safe place to come sometimes where they feel comfortable being vulnerable and asking hard questions, or they don't have people in their lives they trust.
They are lone wolves, or maybe they have contentious relationships where they're estranged from the people they could rely on. So a lot of people out there are looking for guidance.
A lot of people have questions they want to know, especially when they see somebody of note with a platform who, you know, by every measure looks successful. The first question is, how? How'd you do this? Tell me more.
So I can only access so many people through books or tours or at limited leadership conferences. So I think this podcast, first and foremost, gives us an opportunity to hear from folks.
You know, we're going to be taking, you be taking questions from listeners who are going through

some things and just need a little advice. They want to hear from people in conversations.
And

folks are looking for a place where they can just, they can hear stories. I mean, what I realize is

by sharing some of these stories, it always taps into something from somebody else. People, they want to hear some honest kind of conversation about how people are working it through.
And we don't have all the answers. I mean, this show isn't about us being experts at anything other than the lives that we've lived.

But what we do have are a lot of opinions.

Hence the name.

In my opinion.

IMO.

And what better person to do this with than my big brother who, you know, I know how you think.

I know why you think it.

You were funny as all get out. I trust you implicitly.
But I am also excited that we're going to involve other people around our table, that we've got friends and, you know, other leaders out there and people we've met over the scope of our lifetimes who, you know, have their own podcast or living their own lives who are going to come in and engage because we have our opinions, but so do a lot of other people. And I hope the show encourages people to have conversations about what they're afraid about.
Don't do what, the one time you didn't lean on me, at a time when you needed it because you were afraid of what I would think or what, you know, we want to encourage listeners. That's what we need in this time.
We need kitchen tables where we can just sit down and share opinions, share experiences. That's where the wisdom comes from, you know? So I'm excited to be engaged in some of those conversations with you.
How are you thinking about this? I couldn't agree with you more. I have over these years, and we talked about this a little earlier about being, our parents being, before there was the term lifetime learners, right? That's what they were.
And it's been so helpful for me in my adult life and our adult lives. I just want to be able to share what we can with folks who weren't as fortunate to have Frazier and Marian Robinson as parents.
And then I have just watched you grow into this person who has a platform where people, you touch people. People listen to you.
And it's just an honor to be sitting here next to you and being able to share that with the rest of the world. And hopefully it'll be fun.
It'll be fun. You know? Because we may not have all the answers, but we got plenty of opinions.
We sure do. We sure do.
Well, it's going to be a joy to have an excuse to hang with my big brother. So we want going to want, we want you to hang with us tough.
So, and feel free to engage with us. Subscribe, follow us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Audible, and wherever you get your podcast, look us up and send us some questions.
We'd love to get questions from you folks and try and answer them. And I plan on learning something too in this.
For sure. Lifelong learners.
We hope to learn from our guests. We hope to learn from our listeners.
And I can't wait until we start getting feedback from people to hear what's missing. What more can we talk about? What areas can we touch on? But again, we are not the experts.
This is just our opinion and everybody's got one. And it's important.
You know, it's important to have an opinion in life and put it out there.

So I'm excited.

So am I.

It'll be a lot of fun.

Thank you for coming on this journey with me, Quag.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah. Hey, everybody, it's Hoda Kotb, and I would love for you to join me for new episodes of my podcast, Making Space.
Each week, I'm having conversations with authors, actors, speakers, and dear friends of mine, folks who are seeking the truth,

compassion, and self-discovery. I promise you will leave these talks stronger and inspired to make space in your own life for growth and change.
To start listening, just search

Making Space wherever you get your podcasts and follow for new episodes every Wednesday.